To whome quoth Christ O mother I am not able to denie it thee then Marie put in the ballance the droppe of bloud togither with hir merits and then that part weyed downe to the grounde so that the deuils went crying away Our Ladie is too mercifull to Christians we euer fayle where she medleth with vs O Ladie it is not good contending with thee What a derogation is this to Chist And where ye graunt most to the bloud of Christ where ye would salue the matter with intercession euen there ye say not that he will vouchsafe to graunt hir petition but that he is not able to gainesay it yea that it is not lawfull for him to denie it For sayth Cardinall Uigerius Dixit Salomon c. Salomon sayd to his mother aske mother what you will for it is not lawfull for me to turne away my face from hir that bare me VVhat shall wee thinke other than this the Lorde Iesus Christ to say to his mother who is farre wiser and iuster than Salomon And his reason is this Salomons mother had midwiues nources bearers of the child and instructours but Marie was all this hir selfe and so Christ is more bounde to his mother than Salomon to Bethsabée And therefore if we will worship Christ wée must first go to his mother For as sayth Iacobus de Voragine as Eue was in the middest betweene the serpent and the man so Marie making our reconciliation is in the midst betwene God and man. What a dubble blasphemie is this First that our reconciliation is made by any other than Christ of whom the Apostle sayth If when we were yet enimies we were reconciled to God by the death of his sonne much more seeing we are reconciled we shall be preserued by his life nor yet onely so but also glorying in God through our Lorde Iesus Christ by whome we haue nowe obteyned reconciliation Secondly that we haue any other mediatour than Christ wher as the apostle sayth Unus deui c. There is one God and one mediatour of God and man the man Christe Iesus neyther will your shift serue you to cloake youre blasphemie that ye make hir a mediatour of intercession for lo here he maketh hir a mediatour of making the attonement and reconciliation betwene mankinde and God which as it is our very redemption so is it the proper office of Christ alone â—…pse est pax nostra c. He is ouâ—… peace whiche hath made one of both hath broken downe the wall that was a stop betweene vs and also hath done away through his flesh the cause of hatred that is to say the lawe of commaundements conteyned in the lawe written for to make of twaine one new man in himselfe so making peace and to reconcile both vnto God in one bodie through his Crosse and slue hatred thereby For through him we both haue an open way in one spirite vnto the father Wherevpon sayth S. August Nes per mediatorem Christum reconciliamur deo VVe are reconciled to God by Christ being the mediator What blasphemie then is this in you to spoyle Christ hereof and giue it to the virgine Marie and make hir as much the instrument and meane of our reconciliation as Eue was the instrument and meane of our perdition But in this entrance of our perdition though both Adam Eue were culpable and both being one flesh are comprehended vnder the name of one and that of Adam the husband as the Apostle sayth Death reigned from Adam to Moses eueÌ„ ouer them also that sinned not with like traÌ„sgression as did Adam which is the similitude of him that is to come Yet afterward S. Paule noting the meane by whome properly the sinne entred first affirmeth that Adam was not deceyued but the woman was deceyued and was in transgression If then ye make the like proportion of our reconciliation froÌ„ Adam to Christ from Eue to the virgin then as Eue properly was the very originall and cause of the transgression though Adam being the assenter bare the name therof then properly the virgin is the very original cause of our reconciliation and Christ is but an assenter so beares but the name thereof What a wicked doctrine is this M. S. â–ª and is this now nothing els but ora pro nobis Might not Christ rather say ora pro nobis to hir syth ye giue hir all him a bare name only Now to the confirming of this blasphemous doctrine commeth in another of hir Chaplayues crying O foemina super omma c. O woman that art aboue all things and blessed of all things the fore elect and most worthie vessell framed of the first artificer the treasorie of the diuine giftes god hath chosen forechosen thee that God and man might dwell nine Monethes in thy tabernacle I dare boldly say that euen for the Virgin conceyued in Gods minde many thousande yeares before shee was borne mankinde was preserued in his beeing For it is euident that for their first transgression Adam and Eue deserued not onely death but euen the vtter rooting them out to nothing And the diuine vengeance which knoweth not the accepting of persons as it left not vnpunished the aungels offence so woulde it not haue left vnpunished mankindes offence but our first parents were preserued that they were not consumed to nothing for the chiefest reuerence that he had to the virgin for he loued hir aboue all creatures that should be created and not vnited vnto god The reason is that this Mayden was in the loynes of Adam as concerning the sede And the power of bringing forth the mayden was imprinted in the first father tyll shee were in deede brought foorth But of hir Iesus ought to be borne who was in Adam onely after his bodily substance to be brought forth of the virgin and of none other God therefore did spare oure first parentes nor consumed them to nothing bicause that so shee had not beene borne and by consequence Iesus neyther nor God had put on flesh Therefore by this noble creature God did saue our first parentes from the transgression and Noe from the floud and Abraham from the slaughter of the Kinges Isaac from Ismaell Iacob from Esau the Iewish people from Aegypt from Pharaos hande from the redde Sea from the force of dyuerse Kinges and Tyrauntes from Nabuchodonozor and from the captiuitie of Babilon Dauid from the Lion from Goliah and from Saule And to conclude all the fauourings and deliuerances made in the olde testament I doubt not but God did them for the loue of this mayden and for the worship of hir whom God had from without beginning foreordeyned to be set aboue all his workes O outragious blasphemie where is Christ How agréeth this with S. Paules doctrine that Christ is the image of the inuisible god the first begotten of all creatures for by him were all things created things that are
see whether you with Pigghius or we with S. Aug. shall come nearer to the Messalians Heresie Your Capitaine Pigghius saith that originall sinne is in deede no sinne at all in infants before nor after baptisme But baptisme taketh away froÌ„ them only original sinne Ergo Baptisme taketh no sinne from them Againe you â–ª say the childe that is not baptised shall be condemned But his sinnes which are the cause of his condemnation are not taken away by baptisme for how can it take away that that is not Ergo ye make the infant to be neuer the better for baptisme Nowe what was the saying of the olde Heretike Adelphius vnto the godly Bishop Flauianus Os venenum ê™ celauit euomuit atque dixit nullam quidem vtilitatem ex sancto baptismate baptisatis accedere His mouth cast out all the venome which it hid and sayde there commeth no profite at all by holy baptisme to those that are baptised And hath Pigghius parbreaked vp agayne this olde poyson of the Messalians and you haue lapped vp this Pigges most filthie vomite But woulde to God this went no further and that ye were not herein worse poysoned than euer the Messalians were and that it were not directly agaynst God himselfe and quite disanulling the death and bloâ—…dshed of Iesus Christe For whereas the infant sayth Pigghius hath no sinne in him and yet God cendemneth him if he be not baptized then doth GOD condemne him that iâ—… aâ—… innocent from sinne God condemneth where no offence nor transgression is Nowe doth this agrée with the iustice of God to condemne an infant for no sinne or for a bare name of sin or for another mans sin it selfe being nothing culpable thereof for all this Pigghius sayth But God is â—…ust and righteous in all his doinges then is the infant borne in very sinne and hath but the rewarde of sinne if he bée condemned The rewarde of sinne is death And by sinne and verie sinne not a name of sinne came death into the worlde and so hath ouerrunne all men for as muche as all haue sinned Againe ye say that the death of Christ taketh away only the originall sinne of Infants baptized as for other sinnes after baptisme our selues must make satisfaction for them But originall sinne sayth Pigghius is in déede no sinne for all it is called sinne as my writing is called my hande bicause my hande wrote it but it is not in deede my hande The death of Christ therefore taketh away the onely bare name of a thing And so our satisfactions do not onely more than the death of Christ but in very déede our satisfactions do all and the death of Christ doth nothing And thus as ye ascribe to the vertue of his death a bare name so make ye him a redemer in bare name and make an Idoll of the bare name of Iesus and take away the purport and effect thereof giuing him baptisme that ye call Primam gratiam to take away a bare name of sinne but not to take away that which ye call sinne in déede This is the doctrine master Stapleton of your doctours and if ye agrée with them of yours Who are now the Messalians who deface baptisme who blaspheme God who disanull and make of none effect the death of Christ and all the benefite of washing vs from our sinnes so fully in baptisme represented and exhibited vnto vs Pigghius or S. Augustine you or we For shame M. Stap. leaue your lying nay rather for shame learne to knowe shoulde I say the righteousnesse of God and the benefit he hath wrought by Christe But howe shoulde ye knowe this when yée knowe not your selues ye féele not your owne corruption ye acknowledge not your sinnes but make them no sinnes ye vnderstande not yet your principles and rudimentes of Christianitie and perceyue not what Baptisme is which ye receyueâ—… being infantes and nowe taking on you to be writers Doctours and teachers of other ye had more néed go to a yong scholler againe and learne your Cathechisme better to know what ye were deliuered from and what remayneth in you Is it any maruayle though ye haue such a number of other errours that haue as it were thus sucked error from your infancies he can neuer be good reader that can not spell nor good Gramarian that neuer learned hys rules but often breake Priscians head and so do you breake Christes so much as lyeth in you If your vnskill be not of malice learne to knowe your selues that before baptisme ye were children of wrath old Adam a lumpe and Masse of verie sinne in déede that that is borne of the flesh is flesh And that all euen the thoughts and affections of the fleshe are very enemities agaynst God. And that this leauen of sinne hath sowred the whole dough That we are not sicke but Mortui in delictis Starke dead in wickednesse and sinnes that all are thus The Scripture sayth S. Paule hath shut vp all vnder sinne There is not one hath done good no not one All are borne and begotten of vncleane seede Yea Dauid himself confesseth his mother coÌ„ceiued him in sin Where he accuseth not his mother for an harlot or himself of bastardie or the act of matrimonie to be sinful But that euen the masse substance of himselfe conceyued was corrupt with sin bicause they were sinners of whose seede he came For such as is the tree such fruite it bringeth forth we cannot saith Christ haue grapes of thornes nor figges of briers By one man sin entred into the world by sin death so death passed through all bicause al haue sinned Thus plainly as ye may sée that originall sinne and concupiscence is very sinne before baptisme so learne of the Apostle to know what sâ—…ill remaineth in you after baptisme For ye are not better than he that sayde I know that in me that is in my flesh there dwelleth no good thing he knewe no pure naturall qualities remayning in his flesh as your schoolemen say they know in theirs And thinke ye he mitigated the matter or was ashamed to confesse that it was euen sinne in him after Baptisme Nay he not onely calleth it peccatum sinne But inhabitans peccatum sinne inhabiting corpus peccatuÌ„ the body of sinne legeÌ„ peccati the law of sinne legem rebellanteÌ„ a rebelling law and is rebellioÌ„ no sin with you fighting agaynst the spirit of God in him yea leading him captiue insomuch that thereby he sayth he was solde vnder sin yea it is the very body of death vpon which he stil cried out Miserum me quis â—…e liber abit a corpore mortis huiuâ—… Vvretch that I am who shal deliuer me from the body of this death Dare you M. St. bicause Pigghius and other popish flatterers tell ye it is no sinne so exalt your selfe aboue the holy Apostle S. Paule to thinke it is no sinne at
etiam abusus But sithe muche abuse hath also by little and little crept in about the worshippe of Images that the Images also of those thinges haue beene brought into the Churche whiche haue no testiminie of the Scripture or of approued authors That many carued Images beyonde measure with great sumptuousnesse and coste were sette vp so faste in Churches as thoughe heerein a great parte of godlinesse consisted the poore people of Christ being in the meane while neglected which are the liuely Images of Christe Furthermore that we beholde the Images so paynted and expressed that they seemed to bee forged not after the fourme of Christian honestie but after the enticementes of the vanitie of the worlde To conclude that the rude people was suffred to worshippe the Images with a certayne truste reposed in them the which is not altogither free froÌ„ Idolatry so that they can not be excused of Idolatry that haue chosen to them selues any Image to be worshipped and that either for the fairenesse therof or the foulnesse or the newnesse or the oldnesse beleeuing that Image to haue some vertue yea or some godhead or diuinitie more than the rest VVhich error is to be playnly damned Thus do your owne mouthes coÌ„demne your selues that not of trifling points nor of any extraordinary chance but of open and ordinary Idolatrie I omitte suche casualties of Idolatrie as are obiected in Biga salutis if the people should worship the diuell for God in any forme in any reuelation or in the consecrate hoste which ye made the people worship since the diuel can traÌ„sforme him selfe to any such shape yea of an angell of light whether the peoples worship be Idolatrie or no. I wil rather detecte your more grosse idolatrie althoughe that of your honoring the cake were grosse inough Neither can it be but manyfest idolatrie sithe there is no proportion betwéene the body of Christ and suche a likenesse whereas in euery Image a right and true portrature is to be required But into that Idolatrie I will not nowe enter onely I will come to your next obiection of the crosse To the whiche ye committed most open idolatrie not only worshipping with cappe knée with crouching knéeling knocking blessing kissing gréeting and praying vnto but ascribing the merite of saluation to suche your worship of the crosse Ye tell vs how a théefe that continuing an arrant théefe all the dayes of his life Orauit vnum Pater noster ante crucifixum sic saluatus est He saide one Pater noster before the crucifix and so he was saued And therefore saith Discipulus Christo valdè placet cum quis orat prâ—…tereundo Crucifixum in publica strata vnum Pater noster vnum Aue Maria. VVhen one passing by in the open streete saythe one Pater noster and one Aue Mary Christe is highely pleased But not content with this Idolatrie ye make humble prayers vnto it as though it had life and soule as though it were God it selfe O Crux 〈◊〉 cunctis astris c. O Crosse more cleare than all the starres famous to the worlde very louing vnto men whiche onely wast worthy to beare the price of the worlde saue this present company gathered togither this day in thy prayses Thus prayed you to the crosse in your olde primer Haue you neuer sayd this prayer to the crosse O Crux benedicta c. O blessed Crosse bicause the Sauiour of the worlde did hang on thee and the king of Angels triuÌ„phed on thee I adore thee I prayse thee I blesse thee with all my senses be thou our consolation in our trouble c. Agayne Oro te sancta Crux c. I pray thee holy crosse by the omnipotent God that thou wilt deliuer and pull me out of all my necessities and greeues and defende me from the wrath of God and from the vengeaunce of all my enemies and from sodayne death and from all shame perill and blasphemie and from all sinnes wherewith mans frayltie may sinne agaynst god I beseeche thee holy crosse by the loue of Iesus Christe our Lorde who hath exalted thee maruellously aboue all thinges earthly that thou wilte protecte and defende me from the Diuell and from all daungers and euils of minde and body Agayne Salue gloriosa splendidissima Crux Aue inuincibilis insuperabilis dilectissima Crux Salue preciosissima vere digne in aeternum beatissima Crux Aue sanctissima sine fine digne veneraÌ„da praeclarissima Crux Salue preciocissiâ—…a vere deuote adoranda sacratissima crux Lo master Stap. what gallant Rhethorike is hâ—…re to the Crosse. And as with these idolatrous prayers ye worshipped the picture of the Crosse so with the like or worse ye worshipped the picture of the face of Christe which yet by the auncient describers thereof was nothing like his face Neither can ye say ye prayed not to it but vnto Christe whom the face in the cloath represented for euen vnto the paynted face it selfe ye prayed in this Rime dogrell Salue sancta facies nostri Redemptoris in qua nitet species diuini splendoris impressa panniculo niuei candoris dataque Ueronicae signum ob amoris salue decus saculi speculum sanctorum quòd videre cupiunt spiritus Coelorum nos ab omni macula purga vitiorum atque nos consortio iungâ—… beatorum Salue nostra gloria in hac vita dura labili fragili cito transitura nos perduc ad patriam O foelix figura ad videndum faciem quae est Christi pura â–ª c. Ye can not say héere ye spake this to Christe him selfe or to the very face of Christe but your prayer is euen to the very figure or paterne of the face in the linnen cloth and ye desire that paynted face to exalt vs to the very face it selfe The lyke Idolatrous prayer and adoration ye make to the fiue wouÌ„ds Salue vulnus dextrae manus c. God speede wounde of the right hande c I adore thee I honour thee I require thee I beseeche thee that I a wretche nowe dying c. may neuer fayle Hayle thou right hande wounde of Christe thou whiche waste pearced with a moste harde nayle c. VVe adore thee O wounde to thee we encline our head as to a moste sweete fountayne by thee let it be giuen that we may ouercome our enimies and reioyce in the laste day God speede wounde of the righte foote c. God speede wounde of the lefte foote O sweete syde wound c. Aue salue gâ—…ude vale Hayle God speede thee reioyce farewell What foolishe prayers and beastly Idolatrie was this master StapletoÌ„ and yet were these prayers counted suche notable stuffe that they are enfraunchised with great priuiledges and pardons Set in golden letters for more estimation and credite Ye haue a goodly rubrike that sayth Fuit quaedam foemina solitaria reclusa c. There was a
in these wordes following vnto Pilate after he had denied his kingdome to be of this world when Pilate replyed Arte thou then a King he answered thou saist that I am a king Ne tamen c. vvhiche notvvithstanding saithe Ferus least Pilate should be more offended vvith the name of a King Christe proceedeth to declare his kingdome more plainely as thoughe he shoulde say Pilate vnderstande thou this for troth and cast out of thy mynde all suspition of a vvorldly kingdome or of tyrannie This is the case I vvill not at al denie my spiritual kingdome vvhether it be before thee or before Caesar. Onely knovve thou this thing that it is not my purpose to inuade any man vvith Armes or after the manner of other Kings to raigne pompously but to erecte and establishe in earth the Diuine truth To this purpose vvas I born â–ª and to this purpose came I into the vvorlde that I might beare vvitnesse to the truth Therfore I say came I therfore was I borne not to fight with the svvorde but that I might teach and declare the truth and the Gospell vvhiche is the povver of God to saluation to all that beleeue And as I declare the Gospell so I rule by the Gospell in the heartes of the beleeuers ouer sinne death and the Deuill and for sinne vvill I giue righteousnesse for death life for the Crosse ioye for hell I vvill giue heauen these are feofments of my kingdome Of these things none can be pertaker excepte he heare my voyce and beleeue in his heart I enrich not mine vvith ryches vvith cities and other feofmeÌ„ts but by my vvords I communicate vnto them ioye life peace and to conclude heauen it selfe The Gospell therefore is the Scepter of my kingdome But what are these things against the Emperor of Rome Thus againe we sée that Christe is not such a King nor his kingdome suche as you dreame of Whiche in the ende your selfe contrarie to your selfe confesse that his kingdome is not suche an one that he euer mingled himselfe in earthly things Then Master Saunders those thinges belonged not to his Kingly office nor to his kingdome For in suche things euery King ought not onely to mingle but chiefly to occupie himselfe But strait you haue an exception at hand that he mingled not himself in earthly things except whereas they might be profitable to a spirituall ende and this your selfe before confessed was the finall ende of all the ciuill power and that all faythfull Kings ought to directe all those thinges in their kingdomes vnto spirituall endes bicause they themselues are spirituall And so what letteth but that Christe should haue raigned as a worldly King and gouerned an earthly kingdome But say you This kingdome of Christ therfore both came from heauen tendeth vnto heauen For both al povver is giueÌ„ vnto â–ª him as he vvas man and died and rose againe that he shoulde rule ouer the lyuing and the deade and that he should be set ouer the vvorkes of the handes of God and that all things should be cast vnder his feete sheepe and Oxen and moreouer the beastes of the fielde And also Saint Cyrill saith that euen the wicked in the laste daye shall arise to their punishement for Christe vvho rose firste and contained as man al men in him self Sith therefore earthly Kings administer those things that pertain to sheepe and Oxen and beasts of the fielde although they remaine Eâ—…hnikes and Infidels yet are they truely vnder Christe the King as the most vvorthy man â–ª that hath receiued the principalitie ouer all thinges of this vvorlde not from the earth but from heauen and for the same shall giue an accouÌ„t to him of their common vveale euil ordered bycause they referred not their kingdomes to a spirituall ende that is to the glorie of one god But Christ so far as appertineth to his humaine â—…atuÌ„re being lesse than Angels seemeth to me to haue receiued that kingdome that Adam first should haue administred among all creatures to the glorie of one God if he had not falne from grace and to haue renued it in himselfe and to haue directed it to a spiritual end that vvhen all things should be subiect to the Sonne of man then should the Sonne also be subiecte vnto him that hath subdued all thinges to him that God might be all in all Sith therefore Christ by his humaine nature is the King of all he truely directeth al things to a spiritual end that is to the glorie of God for God deserueâ—…h glorie yea euen in those that are damned bothe for his povver and for his iustice The effecte hereof is this that God hath giuen to the humain nature of Christ as to the principal of al his creatures al povver iudgement to direct them to a spiritual end that is to his glorie But what is this to the purpose that Christes kingdome is after the fashion of a vvorldly kingdome he gouerneth all creatures we graunt with his power and prouidence yea the sheepe Oxen and cattail that he speaketh on But dothe the kingdome of Christe consiste in these things Numquid Deo cura de bobus hath God saith Sainte Paule care of Oxen in the coÌ„sideration of his heauenly kingdome He telleth vs howe all Kings shall answere for the â—…busing of their kingdomes vnto Christ at the day of dome bycause they referre them not to a spirituall ende But he telleth not howe muche more the Pope shall aunswere for â—…surping kingdomes and abusing the spirituall kingdome of Christe to vvorldly endes But shall this iudgemente of Christ be in a vvorldly coÌ„sistorie He telleth vs how he thinketh that Christe receiued that kingdome that Adam should haue had had he not falne But thinketh he that Christe should haue ruled in an earthly Paradise or that Christ came to restore vs to no better kingdome than Adam was in before he sinned He telleth vs Al things shal be made subiect to Christe and Christe to God and God shall be all in all But thinketh he this kingdome shall be in this worlde and militant Church while the euimies striue and are not yet al subdued he telleth vs the glorie and iustice of Christ shineth in the condemnation of them that are damned But dothe he thinke this is a vvorldly glorie and humaine iustice it is true that the glorie and iustice of Christe shal shine ouer theÌ„ And so shal it in the righteouse condemnation of the Popish Church that séeketh such a vvorldly kingdome and calleth it the spiritual kingdome of Christe to cloake their pryde withall But what can Master Saunders conclude hereon for Byshops to possesse kingdoms to rule Kings to sette vp or to depose them Neither say I these thinges saithe he to shevve herevpon that povver is ouer the vniuersal vvorld giuen to the Bishops of the Chnrch as though they in all things are the Ministers and Vicars
done in remouing an euill Prince in som estates sand pag. 85. Ezech. 34. Whether euery necessarie and profitable povver be giuen to the Pastor ouer his shepe Luke 22. The popishe Pastors farre from the dueties described in Ezech. 34. Glossa in Lyra in Ezech. 34. To expel Prin ces from theyr kingdomes is to rule vvyth bitternesse sand pag. 85. In Orat. de moderat in disputat seruanda The similitude of cutting of a rotten â—…eber Hovv the pastors are as it vvere the mind or reason in the head Hovve the Prince againe is as the minde oâ—… reason in the head The Prince compared to the vvill in the harâ—…e If the Prince vvere but com pared to the lungs lights or lyuer yet must â—…e not be cut off bicause he is infected sand pag. 85. 1. Cor. 6. Howe the Church hath power ouer the goods and bodily things of the faithfull The pastors are not the Church but members of the Church The pastors haue the power and proprietie of bodily goods froÌ„ the power of the Prince 1. Cor. 6. M. sand maketh priests only ChristiaÌ„s and Christian Princes Ethnikes S. Paule ment not that the Corinthiaus should go to law before the pastors for teÌ„porall matters sand pag. 85. 1. Cor. 6. Rom. 8. Howe the ministers haue haue not to do with worldly businesse S. Paule wrested by Maister Sand â–ª How the saints shall iudge the world Chrysost. in 1. Cor. 6. S. Paule speaking of Saints meaneth not only spirituall Pastors Haimo in 1. Cor. 6. Hugo in 1. Cor. 6. The Pope reproued Sand. 85. De regulis iuris Hebr. 5. 2. Cor. 5. Christe giues not al his gifts by his Pastor The Churche hath not alwayes power to make their Magistrates The Pastors passe a right to the Prince and haue not the right in theÌ„ selues Sand. 8â—… The Corinthians might not choose newe publike Magistrates bycause they might choose newe priuate arbiters S. Paule allow eth the authoritie of heathen Magistrates in his time Maister Saunders 〈◊〉 S. Paule to al rebellion sand pag. 85. Better suffer a mischiefe than an inconuenience One inconuenience not to be helped with an other inconuenience The heathen iudges delâ—… not only in tempo rall matters The daunger of M. Saund. doctrine The greatest daunger of all is of the Pope his prelates sand pag. 85. 1. Reg. 10. 1â—… 1. Reg. 15. 1. Reg. 16. Osee. 8. 1. Reg. 23. 1. Reg. 22. Deposing of Kings was neuer belonging to the spirituall power Samuel was but the minister of declariÌ„g gods precept No highest B. of the Church besides Christ. Samuel deposed not Saule 1. Reg. 13. Caietanus in 1. Reg. 13. The Lords coÌ„maundement by Samuell to Saule was especial and serued but for that turne â—…yra in 1. Reg. 13. Lyra in â—… Reg. 13. Samuels doing to Saule and Dauid was but a declaration of Gods purpose to come 1. Reg. 15. Lyra in 1. Reg. 15. The token to Saule who should succede him 1. Reg. 14. Glosla in Lyra. Soule raygned fortie yere after this sentâ—…ce of Samuel The cutting off of Saules kingdome was mente by his posteritie not by himselfe Lyra in 1. Reg. 15. Dauids priuy anoynting betokeneth it was no publike acte Saule was neuer deposed so long as he lyued M. sand reasons that he is to be obeyed whom the Pope settes vp and he to be forsaken that the Pope deposeth Osee. 8. How wicked kings are of God and not of God. Rom. 13. Pronetb 8. loaâ—… 19 â–ª The Prophets after they had declared Gods wrath to wicked kings dyd still obey their ciuill gouernment Ionathas acknowledged not Dauid to be king but that he should be king 1. Reg. 23. 1 â–ª Reg. 20. Caietanâ—… in 1. Reg. 20. Why the people flocked vnto Dauid Caietanus que stion whether Dauid did wel to receiue this people to the preiudice of their creditors Lyra his question whether he did well to become their captayne and receyued them to the preiudice of the publiâ—…e state Dauid neuer tooke him self nor was taken of any other to bâ—…â—…ng tyll Sâ—…ule was dâ—…d 1. Reg. 24. Lyra. Caietane Dauids remorce of conscieâ—…ce euen for cutting but a flap of Saules garment How this cutting was and was noâ—… iniurious to Saule 1. Reg. 24. Dauids reuerence and humilitie to Saule Dauid purgeth himselfe of all rebellion and sinne against Saul Dauid wisheth no reuengement to Saul Saul coÌ„fesseth Dauid shoulde raign not that he did raigne Saul resigned not to Dauid 1. Reg. 16. Dauid woulde â—…e no efficient cause of Saules death 1. Reg. 21. Whether Achimelech asked counsel of the Lord for Dauid or no when Dauid fled vnto him Lyra. Achimelech the high priest inferior to Saul â—… Reg. 22. The Popish not the protestant Princes imitate Saules crueltie or rather excede it sand pag. 86. 3. Reg. 11. Ephâ—… â—… The example of the prophet Ahias foretelling Ieroboam that he should raigne The specialtie of this fact not to be drawne to example How IeroboaÌ„ was a traytor how he was not The Prophete did but foretel this fact that by especiall coÌ„mandement An admonitioÌ„ for Christian Princes not to ioyne in mariage leagues with infidell Princes 3. Reg. 11. 3. Reg. 16. 3. Reg. 21. 2. Paral. 20. Sand. 86. 3. Reg. 1â—… The examples of Elias anointing Asahel Iehu â–ª and Elizeus Glossa in Lyrano in 3. Reg. 19. 4. Reg. 9. 4. Reg. 8. 3. Reg. 19. Lyra in 3. Reg. 19. Caietanus in 3. Reg. 19. Exod. 32. Num. 25. Iohn 18. Sand. 86. How the Prophets dyd kill these Idolaters 3. Reg. 18. It belongeth not to Pastors to punish with the bodily sworde M. sand confutes him self sand pag. 86. 4. Reg. 1. 4. Reg. 1. Ambro. lib. 5 Epist. 27. Rom. 13. 4. Reg. 1 â–ª The superioritie of the spiritual sworde is not the present question The present question is whether the spiritual power of pastors may depose he secular power of Princes 4 Reg. 1. King Ochozias representeth not the Protestant but the popish Princes Elias toke not vpon him the chiefest place in Gods Church Elias his facte not to be drawen to any example to followe Lyra in .. 4 Reg. 1. Caietaâ—…us in 4. Reg. 1. The imitation of thâ—… facte of Elias expressely forbidden to the Disciples of christ Luke 9. Popish Bishops of a contrary spâ—…rite to Christ. M. sand proueth his Byshops to be traytors The example of S Ambrose sand pag. 8â—… 87. Of like things it makes no matter what is done M. Sand â—…alles to putting of cases againe coÌ„trarie to the Scripture Gen 3. Difference of punishmentes Gen. 14. Gen. 19. 1. Reg 22. Leuit. 10. This punishement of fire was an especiall puâ—…shmeÌ„t proceding froÌ„ God not from Elias 3. Reg. 18. Lyra super Luc. 9. Sand. 87. 4. Reg. 6. Ibidem 4. Reg. 2. 4. Reg. 1. The example of Elizeus Elizeus defence of â—…rie charets against the armie of the king of Siria The Pope like to Benadab The ProtestaÌ„ts like 〈◊〉 Elizeus The
S. Peter S. Clement and other holy Martyrs and Bishops there as any other The summe of this argumâ—…t is this The Pope now aliue or to come for the B. speaketh of one that they would haue raigne in the Queenes place is called an archeheretike Ergo S. Peter S. Clement and other holy Martyres are called archheretickes His answere to this is thus I promise you a well blowen blast and handsomly handled I answere ye againe M. Stapl. I promise ye this is a well made argument and handsomly answered Ye bragge much for your Pope of S. Peter and S. Clement and other holy martyres Your Pope doth well M. Stapl to bragge of them for that is all the neerenesse that he coÌ„meth to them S. Peter and those Martyrs were as like your Pope and he as like them as Caiphas was like to christ If they saw his deings and his craking of them they would neuer crake againe of him but call him archeheretike to But he may crake of these holy martyrs as the Earle of Warwick craked in king Edward the fourths daies that it was a iolier thing to make Kings than to be him self a King and so may your Pope bragge that it is a iolier matter to make martyrs than to be a martyr him selfe He can make saintes he saith I beléeue it the poore saintes féele it dayly whose stoles he dippeth in their bloud So like is he to s. Peter S. Clement other holy Martyrs that where he is none him selfe as were they yet in that defect he will reâ—…oÌ„pence God with store of martyrs of his owne making And for this resemblaunce if the Pope be now touched S Peter by by is touched and he that speaketh generally of the Popes now a dayes if he name not one certaine Pope casteth out his wordes wantonly at S. Peter S. Clement and other holy Martyrs of the old time But and ye had not bene wantonly disposed M. St. your self you might wel haue perceyued whom the B. meant nothing the old Bishops of Rome of whome whether S. Peter were euer any or no is an other question and ye are well stripped out of that Lions skinne But he spake plainely of such Bishops as now vsurping the sea of Rome ye would haue to raigne in the Queenes place But let not the matter go so M. Stapleton VVith like finenesse say you ye call him archehereticke that is supreme iudge of all heretickes and heresies to I answere with the like finenesse ye take that for graunted that is chiefly denied By this fine Sophisticall figure Petitio principij your finenesse M. St. will hurt you euery boy in the scooles would hisse out such fine reasoning Ye call him archeheretike say you that hath already iudged you and your Patriarches for archeheretikes I wiste as well might the fellon at the barre in VVestminster hall to saue his life if it might be call the iudge the strongest theese of all And doubtlesse had he a Prince on his side his plea were as good as yours is Let go the Prince M. Stapleton that is to much trecherie and more than felonie though ye liken vs to the fellon to resemble the Quéenes most excellent Maiestie to an abbettour of theeues and fellons then I will answere your I wiste with an other I wiste I wiste as well the strongest theefe of all might crie stoppe theefe by any true man to saue the pursuite from him selfe and his crie were as good as the Popes crie that we not he are the archheretikes and doubtlesse hauing such confederates on his side as you to helpe to crie so with him the theeues crie might séeme more true than the true mans Especially if as you would haue the matter go that the theefe should be made iudge in his owne case to when would this theefe condemne him selfe trowe you do ye not perceyue M. Stapleton that your comparison fayleth of the indge in VVestminster hall against a fellon when saw ye there a iudge sit and giue sentence in his owne cause him selfe beyng on the one side the principall partie what Iustice or lawe call you that you should therefore let VVestminster hall alone and say at Rotâ—… in Rome or in the Popes coÌ„sistorie and where he will siâ—…te as Iudge on him selfe and vs There in déede he hath Iudged vs to be the archeheretikes but euen this vniust doyng sheweth him selfe to be the very archeheretike Otherwise if his cause were good he durst come downe from the bench and pleade with his aduersaries the truth or falshood thereof Which till he do he plaieth the parte of an archetyrant also Now say you where ye say we would haue the Pope to raigne here in the Queenes place proceedeth from your like truth and wisedome For albeit the Popes authoritie was euer chiefe for matters Ecclesiasticall yet was there neuer any so much a noddie to say and beleue the Pope raigned here the Pope and the King being euer two distinct persons farre different the one from the other in seuerall functions and administrations and yet well concurrant and coincident togither without any imminution of the one or the others authoritie I answere with the like truth and wisdome as ye reasoned before so ye frame also this reason Ye say say you we would haue the Pope to raigne in her place Ergo ye say we would haue the Pope to be King. Hereupon ye make your distinction of raigning and hauing supreme authoritie and so ye conclude there was neuer any so much a noddie to say and beleeue the Pope raigned here First your argument is faultie for putting the case ye will not for shame say that ye would haue him King here yet if he tooke from her a principall parte of her royall power did he not then raigne in her place though he claymed not to be King and since ye vaunt of wisedome what a wise distinction is this of raygning and hauing supreme authoritie to bleare the simples eyes with woordes for so farre forth as he claymeth the supreme authoritie which he doth in all supreme matters as are Ecclesiasticall and that ouer her so well as any other so farre foorth he claymeth to raygne ouer her Nowe this being a parte of her royall power deth he not clayme to raigne euen ouer the principall parte and so is King thereof But say you who was euer so much a noddie as to say he raygned here Sir this noddie is euen your Pope that maketh this clayme you your selfe for him Do you not here say although you greatly lie therin that he was euer chiefe for matters Ecclesiasticall and do not all your complices say that he raigneth for spirituall matters both here all ouer Christendome Yea I wil go further for the temporalties to I pray you sauing the reuerence of your noddie who raygned heere when for certayne dayes the Popes legate kept the crowne of Englande from king Iohn and gaue it
so be depriued of the right of his kingdome that another may in the meane season be of the same Byshop anoynted for King and that from that day forwarde he truely shal be the King whome the Bishop orderly anoynted or other wise did consecrate and not he that being armed with a bande of souldiers occupieth the seate For of such the Prophet saith they haue reigned and not by me the which thing is so true that loâ—…athas the sonne of Saul acknowledged that the Kingdome shoulde fall vnto Dauid after the death of his Father And al that were in nede sled vnto Dauid and he became their Prince and there were with him as it were foure hundreth men and when Achimelech the Priest asked Counsell of the Lorde for Dauid and Saul hauing intelligence thereof commaunded his seruaunts to fall vpon the Priests of the Lorde no man durst execute so cruel a commaundement besides onely Doeg the Idumean The effecte of this reason is thréefolde Firste that the Pope maye depose a King and set vp another Secondly that the King so deposed by the Pope is no longer lawfull King nor to be obeyed but the subiectes ought to go to the other whomâ—… the Pope sets vp Thirdly that althoughe the Pope maye depofe a King yet no King maye depofe or touch the Pope or his Priests For the first point are alle aged these arguments The spirituall power is as greate nowe in the Church since the holy Ghost was sent from heauen as it was before in the Synagog But Kings were then deposed and other set vp by the spirituall power Ergo Kings may now likewise be deposed by the spirituall power and other set vp But the spirituall power belongeth to the highest Bishop The Bishop of Rome is the highest Bishop Ergo the Bishop of Rome maye depose Kings and set vp other The later argument which we vtterly denie and here he proueth not but taketh for confessed that there is in earth a highest Bishop ouer all other and that the Pope is he is belonging to another controuersie To the former argument we graunt the Maior The spirituall power is as great nowe after the holy Ghost was senâ—…e from heauen as it was before in the Synagog But we denie the Minor. That the deposing of Kings and sitting vp of other in their steede was not done then in the Synagog by the spirituall power that is by the spirituall authoritie of the spirituall pastor For proofe hereof M. Saunders inferreth an instance of Saul and Samuel Saul loste his Kingdome bycause he obserued not the precepte of Samuel And therefore Samuel ordayned another King. I aunswere First this facte was not a matter ordinarily belonging to the spirituall power of Samuel but an especialtie of gods singular appointing It was not a thing beloÌ„ging to the Byshops office to depose Kings and set other in their places it was but a particular acte done by gods especiall coÌ„maundement so that it could not nor was euer drawne into any ordinarie rule of their spirituall power then and much lesse is any thing belonging to the Bishops spirituall power nowe which is an ordinarie power and consisteth in setting forth the word of God in administring the sacraments of God and in bynding or losing the conscience of the obstinate or repentant sinner Which things sith none of them pertaine to the deposing of a Prince or any other man from his temporall possessions and worldly estate it is apparant that this extraordinarie doing of Samuel was neither theÌ„ nor now ordinarily pertaining to the spirituall power of pastors Secondly it is false that Saul lost his kingdome for not obseruing the precepte of Samuel For althoughe Samuel pronouÌ„ced it yet it was the Lords precept as like wise the other precepts of which M. Saunders confesseth that he fulfilled not the precept of the Lorde declared by the ministerie of Samuel So that Samuel was but the Minister of declaring it But say you then muste not the King dispise to heare the Lord speaking by the mouth of the highest Bishop We grauÌ„t you M. Sanders the King must not dispise to heare the Lorde speaking by the mouth of any Bishop As for any highest B. besides Iesus Christ we denie And the King ought to dispise to here him which claimeth that highest roome For it is an euident argument that the Lord speaketh not by such a blasphemous month as exalteth it selfe into Christes Bishopprike As for Samuel tooke not vpon him to be the highest Priest or Bishop nor was any B. or Priest at al nor spake any thing at all that he had not the especiall and expresse commandement of God therto Let your Pope and his Bishops shewe the expresse commaundement of God either especiall or ordinary that they be bidden to depose Kings and set vp other or else you wrest this example and doe no lesse abuse God than you would abuse Princes by it Thirdly this is false also that Samuell either deposed Saule or â—…et vp Dauid Concerning Saule he declared to him howe his kingdome should not continue but he deposed him not The wordes of Samuell are these Thou haste doâ—… foolishly that thou haste not obserued the commaundementes of the Lorde thy God that he commaunded thee If thou haddest not done this thing the Lorde had euen nowe established thy kingdome ouer Israell for euer But thy kingdome shall arise no further The Lorde hathe soughte him a man according to his heart and hathe commaunded him that he shoulde be captayne ouer his people bicause thou haste not kepte the thinges the Lorde commaunded thee First héere Samuell referreth all to the Lords commaundement Aâ—…d as Caietanus a Papist noteth thereon This commaundement of the Lorde violated by Saule was not a commaundement of the lawe but a particular commaundement declared to Saule by Samuel An especiall commaundement saith he for that turne Secondly he referreth the punishment not to his remouing of him but to the dooing of god Thirdly he dothe not neither in his owne name nor in Gods depose him at all from his estate but telleth him howe his kingdome shall not continue Vltrate saythe he It shall continue no further after thee Bicause his sonne Isboseth raygned not ouer all Israell neither yet ouer that peaceably and that for a small time And this purpose of God as Lyra nateth although it were then declared by reason of the present demerite of Saule yet was it the Lordes euerlasting purpose The purpose of God saith he is certain infallible It was before ordeined of God that the kingdome should be giuen to the tribe of Iuda as appeareth Gene. 49. The Scepter shal not be taken from Iuda But the Pope can not shew the like purpose of God that suche or such a Prince should nowe be deposed or placed therefore he dothe but wrest this example As for the placing of Dauid Although sayth Lyra this was yet to come he speaketh notwithstanding as
who hauing receiued the power of the sword would haue offred himself to vse it for Elias Or else let vs put the case that it is said of Elias vnto him bycause these souldiors contemne me and in me God whose prophete I am rushe thou on them and kill them Had now that Prince sinned if at the word of Elias he had killed the Kings subiectes eyther else coulde not an earthly sword haue performed the same thing that the ministerie of fire did yelde from heauen Truly with wyse men it makes no matter what is done of those things that are of the same waight and moment If fire be the more noble element than earthe yea or those metals that are digged oute of the earth I see not but that he who called fyre downe from heauen which shoulde satisfie his commaundement muche more coulde haue spoken to a Magistrate bearing the sword that he should pull out and drawe that sword for him against any King. Whatsoeuer you see not Maister Saunders you make all the world to see that you be of a viperous generation and adders broode that cannot créepe forward by lying straight but wynding and crooking in and oute hether and thether Sée howe you sâ—…ill séeke shiftes whereby to procéede when by the directe Scripture your cause will not goe forward You fall to putting of cases once agayne Put case the scripture had sayde thus Put case Elias had done this Put case another had done that What a warbling is this If you will alleage the Scripture take the Scripture directly as it lyes Put no more cases to the Scripture than the Scripture puttes Are you wyser than God or not as false as the olde Serpent that in tempting Eue altered the wordes of God But this argueth that the Scripture it self fitteth not your turne except you may turne and alter it as you will. You pretende it is no matter wyth wise men what is done of those things that are of the same waight and moment As whether these men were kylled by the fire or by the sword sith they were killed But are these punishmentes all one Maister Saunders to haue bene striken with the sworde of a man and to be consumed with fire from God in déede as you saye here is death in both which is the same thing but are their kindes of death and punishmentes of the same waight and moment When the foure Kings slewe the Sodomites and when God raigned downe â—…ire and brimstone from heauen to sâ—…ay the Sodomites when Saul as Maister Saunders sayde before killed the Priests and when God kylled the Priests with fire from heauen is here nothing in these deathes but the difference of the more noble element Surely it séemeth Maister Saunders you haue bene so long in Rome that you are become Inglese Italia nato so worldly wyse that you haue no feare of Gods vengeance that thus measure it by mannes punishment There is a great difference Maister Saunders in the waight and moment of these punishmentes not onely to shewe the heauier wrathe of God but also to shewe that althoughe Elias desired it on suche specialties as is aforesayde yet the punishment was onely from God not from Elias he had not the fire at his commaundemente but God sento the fire vpon them which maketh another greater difference of the case besides other sundry differences that cleane do alter it For it is not likely that Elias woulde euer haue set another Prince vpon his owne Princes subiectes or styrre anye rebellion against his Prince howe sharpely soeuer he rebuked him for hys sinnes He neither spared King Achab nor Quéene Iesabell nor their sonne Qchozias but boldly reproued them But as for deposing them or mouing other Princes to depose them or to kill either them or their people he neuer dyd it nor euer shewed anye tâ—…ken of lyking suche doyng and therefore we oughte not to presuppose any such thing of him These things he did he killed the Priesâ—…s of Baal eyther by his bydding them to be killed or as Lyra sayth propriamanu he kylled some of them with his owne hande And here he besoughte God take this vengeance on these wicked souldiers and this he dyd by the â—…stincte of god The other that you put the case for we finde no suche dede nor haue any such warrant and without such warrant from God they should sauor of treason to the Prince and so make a great alteration of the case to serue your purpose and wreste the Scripture and therefore are not to be admitted But although saith M. sand Princes of this world see not the power of this spirituall sworde notwithstanding if at the prayer of Elizeus God vouchsafe to open their eyes â–ª they shal see moe armies with the B. thaÌ„ with any Emperor For behold the mountaine full of horses of firie charets round aboute Elizeus But when the King of Israel seeyng the greatnesse of the faâ—…ine sware that the heade of Elizeus shoulde not stande vpon him that daye Elizeus that knewe this othe of the King to be vnlawfull foreseyng in the spirite the messenger to be at hande that shoulde execute the Kings commaundement he sayde vnto the elders that were with him knowe ye not how this murtherers sonne hath sent to take away mine heade take heâ—…de therfore when the messenger coÌ„meth shut the dore and set him not enter Yea Sanctes Pagninus so expoundes these later woordes oppresse him in the dore By which wordes not onely the shutting out of the Kings messenger is signified but also a certayne violence done vnto him All which I haue broughte to this ende that I mighte shewe that the pastors of the Churche haue power not onely ouer the soules of the faythfull but also ouer their bodyes and goods so often as the soules health maye be promoted thereby For we know also that two beares comming out of the woode dyd â—…eare in peeces â—…ortie and two of those Children that mocked Elizeus VVhereby also is declared that all the creatures of God aryse to reuenge their iniuries whome God hath adorned with spirituall power And truely when good Kings wanted that woulde reuenge the contumely done to the pastors of the Churche the element of fire and the wilde beasts toke that care on them We had before the example of Elias and then of Elizeus and then againe of Elias and nowe agayne of Elizeus Of whom three things are here alleaged The first that Elizeus had greater power to defende hym than the Kyng of Syria to oppugne hym The seconde when the Kyng of Israell sente to kill him he caused the messenger violentlye to be kept oute of the dore The thirde when the children of Bethel mocked him he cursed them and straight wild beares destroyed them To the first I answere it is impertinent to the purpose of deposing Princes or seazing on their teÌ„porall goods kingdomes or causing