sense it is that the Reprobates and the Elect after death are said to be togither â—â—n 28.19 a To morrow thou thy sons shal be with vs saith the supposed Samuel to Saul Not that there is any positive thing common to the Elect and Reprobates after death which b you observe wel â—â—g 396. 〈◊〉 Simpâ—â—li â—â—qaest 3. â—â—g 209. but only that they be alike dead and alike remain in death Yet I say they are not like any further This c Aust very well sheweth whom you d bring saith he mortuus mortem vivo proenuntiabat Fathers 〈◊〉 it me our 〈◊〉 of Hadea that is being dead he foreshewed death to him that yet lived So that it was the same condition of death both to Saul and Samuell but not the same fruition of happines Thus the old Latin Translatour vseth Infernum as coÌ„monly for Hades so sometimes for e Thanatos death â—ct 2.24 â— Cor. 15.55 â— Act. 2.24 â—piph in â—â—nacephal 〈◊〉 Anchor â—ustin In â—â—yph and sometimes f Mors death for Hades Epiphanius readeth the g Text indifferently h Thanátou or i Hadou as reckoning theÌ„ in effect all one Justin Martyr long before saith k Christ a little before his death noted the folly of those men tôn nomizónton me êinai auton Christon all hegonménon thanatôsein auton kai hós koinon ánthropon en hadou menein that thought him not to be Christ but that he should dy and remaine in Hades as a common man Hee meaneth not heere as a wicked man in Hell but as any common man whether good or bad dying abideth in Death or in the Dominion of Death or in the world of the Dead Irenaeus saith l Heerein Christ legem mortuorum servavit did but as others do that Dy â—nae lib. 5. 〈◊〉 vlt. conversed 3. dayes vbi erant Mortui sancti where the dead Saintes were And this hee calleth Locum invisibilem the vnseene World What meaneth this but Hades â—es an inviâ—â— place of yeâ—ed Soules as we take it Yea a little before he expresly calleth it Paradise Nevertheles I grant that he thought this vnseene world was indeed beneath in the earth wherein his proofes do vnterly faile him as your selfe do fully grant and professe in that point aswell as wee Againe m hee further sheweth that in the n Scripture he taketh Hades to be all one with Death â—ib 5.13.3.38 â— Cor. 15.55 or the Dominion of Death where he readeth the Text thus Absorpta est mors in victoriâ vbi est mors aculeus tuus vbi est o mors victoria tua â— Greek â—â—des Death is swallowed vp in victorie Death where is thy sting Death where is thy victory And he addeth Haec autem iustè dicentur tunc c. These thinges shall truly be spoken then when this mortall and corruptible flesh about which Death is and which is holden down by a certaine Dominion of Death arising vp into life shall put on incorruption and immortality Then verily shall death be overcome when the flesh which is holden by it shall come foorth out of the Dominion thereof Thus he taketh heere Thanatos and Hades for one and the same thing in effect that is for Death and the power of death and nothing els Tertulian doth likewise for a Terrulâ— Anima 〈◊〉 speaking of Inferi which he taketh for the same that Hades is hee noteth it as the place Quò vniversa Humanitas trahitur whither all mankind must go And therefore of Christs going thither he saith b Cap. 5â— Quia homo mortuus secundum Scripturas sepultus secundum easdem hic quoque legi satisfecit formâ humanae mortis apud inferos functus Because also he was a man therefore he dyed according to the Scriptures was buryed according to the same also heere he satisfied the common law of nature by following the forme of mens Dying and going to the world of the Dead Tertullian is for vs yet further Hee taketh Hades in the c 1 Cor. â— Newe Testament meerely for Death or the Dominion of Death even as Irenaeus before did Thus he readeth the Text that often times d De Râ—carn c. 4â— 54. Vbi est mors aculeus tuus Vbi est “ Hadeâ— mors contentio tua Aculeus autem mortis delinquentia virtus autem delinquentiae Lex O Death where is thy sting O Death where is thy force The sting of Death is sinne the force of sinne is the Law And againe e Adverâ—cion 5. Scriptum est apud f Hose Creatorem Vbi est g Sheol 〈◊〉 Hades mors victoria vel contentio tua Vbi est mors aculeus tuus Verbum autem hoc Creatoris est apud Prophetam It is written by the Creatour Death where is thy victory or thy force or strife Death where is thy sting This is the worde of the Lord God by the Prophet Ozee Still he maketh Hades Sheol nothing els but Death in these places And saith he Deo gratias dicit h 1 Cor. â— Apostolus quod nobis victoriam vtique de morte prestitit The Apostle in the New Testament applying words of the Prophet to the Resurrection giveth thanks to God because he causeth vs to get a victory indeed of Death So still he maketh Hades to be Death and not Hell Which yet is further most cleerely to be seene i De Idoâ— cap. 13 〈◊〉 See also 〈◊〉 before pâ—â— Lazarus apud inferos in sinû Abrahae refrigerium consecutus c. Lazarus in the world of the Dead inioyeth comfort in Abrahams bosom contrariwise the Rich man is in the torments of fire both of them there receaving their divers rewardes How cleere is this that he maketh Hades and Inferos even in a Luke also â—â—â—e 16.23 to be nothing but the common state and world of the Dead Wherevpon the learned Junius noteth thus Observandum autem quod ait Apud Jnferos etiam de Lazaro Nam inferos Latini Patres vt Graeci Haden pro omni loco aut statû mortuorum dixerunt promiscuè Atque in hunc sensum Lazarus Dives apud inferos collocantur 〈◊〉 before â—â—â—g 162. â—â—â—m de â—it 〈◊〉 anima 〈◊〉 55. Quomodo b Irenaeus c Chrysostomus ex verbis Luc. 16.23 locuti sunt TertullÃanus locis quamplurimis This therefore it is that Tertullian saith in another place d Constituimus omnem animam apud inferos sequestrari in diem iudicij We determine that every mans Soule is kept apart in the worlde of the dead til the day of iudgment And Are all soules theÌ„ in the power of the kingdom of Death penes inferos Will you nill you there you shall finde punishments and comfortes as in Lazarus and the Rich man For why should you not thinke that the Soule may be both punished and comforted in inferis in the Worlde of the dead Neither doth he c Montanize in this as
the Apostle mentioneth the i Ephe. 2.2 Ayre and that k cap. 6.12 on high as being the place of Divels Notwithstanding far be it from me to affirme that hell certainly is not beneath Yet your pretended scripturs are meerely forced to prove it As in the chief I have shewed already In the rest it will appeare likewise anon Howbeit wheresoever Hel indeed is though we do grant in it to be locally in the earth beneath vs yet every Opposition betwene Shammajim the Heavens or Skyes and Sheol doth not signifie the opposition betweene Heaven and Hel. This you shall never be able to prove Shammajim thus placed signifieth the Skyes not the very place of Heavenly glory in the presense of God which in English we call Heaven And Sheol thus placed signifieth not Hell the place of torments but it is taken thus 2. wayes Somtime for †a vast and deepe Gulfe only or pit in the earth Abyssus the bottom wherof we know not Amos. 9.2 Iob. 11.8 Psa 139.8 So doe a many of your places meane which you draw and wrest to signifie Hell Somtime for Ruine and Destruction or Abolishing of any visible Creatures from hence which seemeth to be the largest most proper sense of Sheol â—heols proper sense So doth it in Jsay signifie where Sheol is threatned to the King of Babel b Though thou be lifted vp to the Skyes Isa 14.15 yet shalt thou bee brought downe to Sheol that is in this place to an inglorious Destruction and No being in this word and thy carcase vnto the sides of the pit that is the Grave This the contrariety heere sheweth Thougâ— thou be lifted vp to the Skyes He meaneth not heere into the glory of the Saints of God in Heaven but lifted vp in great pomp and worldly glory as the Latin phrase meaneth also when they say ad sydera tolli Now saith the Prophet to this King of Babell Though at this time it be thus with thee yet surely thou shalt be brought down to the contrary point to an inglorious Destruction and a wiping out from the Earth Which sense of Isay is also very well confirmed by the like matter in Ieremy c Though Babel should mount vp to the Heavens â—er 51.53.4 and though she should defend her strength on high yet from me shall her Destroyers come saith the Lord. A sound of a cry cometh from Babel and of great Destruction from the Chaldeans c. Where that which Isay called Sheol Ieremy speaking of the very same matter nameth Destruction vtter laying wast and overthrowing of that City and State And so to come to our purpose A very Heâ—raisme d this is the very same phrase heere in Mathew touching Capernaum Thou Capernaum which art lift vp to the Heaven shalt be brought down to Hades that is to Destruction to an inglorious Not being any more in the world as before time it had ben â—â—des DestructioÌ„ Razing â—aking away Which also is confirmed by that which he addeth presently of Sodom that if they had had the meanes of repentance as Capernaum had Sodom might have remayned a City to this day Inferring by this that Capernaum for their greater contempt of God and his word deserved more then Sodom to be destroyed to becom no City Hitherto this is the first iudgment threatned to the state of the City Hades Destruction or an vtter razing out from the earth The 2. iudgment heere threatned followeth in the next verse Moveover I say vnto you that it shal be easier for them of the land of Sodom in the day of iudgment then for these Heere indeed is Hell threatned to them of Capernaum yet as touching that before there was nothing els but the overthrow and destruction of their Citie signifyed by that worde Hades applyed to the Citie as is before declared And contrary to this you haue not any piece of reason in al that “ Pa. 147 1â— 409. you say here about The world of Souls which †Pag. 403.409 you play withall Hades may and doeth signifie but yet then only when it is referred to deceased Soules not otherwise Next let vs view the Corinthes a Pag 408. 1. Cor. 1â— 55 O Death where is thy victorie O Hades O Destruction or O Power of Death where is thy sting Heere it is referred to the destruction of the whole and intire Persons of men taken away by death out of this worlde who in the end by this conquest and triumph over Death the power therof at the last day shal be restored to life againe in a true and perfit Resurrection and restitution This is the whole scope and drift of the Apostle heere and you graunt it But you inferre that therfore it is meant of Hel. Of Hell which way Because since by sinne Hell gat possession of both partes of man aswell of his body as of his Soule the full deliverance and conquest ouer Hell is not but in the Resurrection This is very vntrue Our full deliverance from Hell and from Satan is obtayned in this life as it is written b Luke 1.7 We being delivered from our enemies and from the handes of all that hate vs must serve him without feare all the dayes of our life in bolines and righteousnes before him That is we being heere truly iustified by his grace are fully freed and delivered from all the power of our enemies Satan is c Luke 11. 〈◊〉 Rom 8.33 Ioh. 8.51 5 5.24 conquered spoyled bound and cast out from vs. So that your speach is very bad and scandalous where you say d Pag. 216. The bodyes of the Saintes lying in their graves are in the Divells walke For then the Graves where bodyes ly senseles are a part of Hell properly taken At least the Deaths of the Reprobat and of the Children of God e Answerab to your doâ—trine pa. 24 touching the state of their bodyes till the resurrection are all one And men truly iustified are iustified but in their Soules Sinne remayning stil charged on their Bodies and therefore in their bodyes they remaine subiect to the power of Hell and to the curse of the Law and to the claime of Satan till the day of our Resurrection at the last iudgement You call it 〈◊〉 part of the â—ages of sin And thus the godly must pay a part of their own redemption and satisfaction for sinne And then Christ was not our only and absolut Redeemor If this be good doctrine let the godly iudge Your selfe overthroweth this enough Pag. 156. saying f He changed the curse of death and made it now a rest from all labours So that I hope the Bodyes of the dead Saintes are not in the * Divells walke Nor subiecâ—ed to the Râ—â—ge of Saâ—an much lesse are they g in the possession of Hell Pag 216. in the handfast of Hell Further you say vpon the text Pag. 178
h Through death Christ destroyed him that had the power of death that is the Divell Pag. 179. Whereby i it is evident that Hell is spoyled of all right and claime to the members of Christ hee brake c. I hope in this life the godly are the members of Christ then in this life they are fully freed from Hell for euer Wherfore it is very vntrue that Hell properly taken hath any possession of the iust and handfast or power on them or that Hell is not fully subdued for them vntill the Resurrection I graunt that the common death heere is called an enemy Cor. 15.26 but he meaneth not such an Enemy as Hell is especially as this is spoken touchinge the godly Yet it is an Enemie even to them not as any Curse at all but as a Memoriall consequent of the old Curse like as a scarie is where was a deadly wound also as a peaceable and quiet stopp or stay vnto them â—â—ea because 〈◊〉 is painâ—ull â—o the flesh in 〈◊〉 his life that their whole persons cannot yet enioy their appointed felicitie Howbeit for all this toward them it hath not the least affinitie with Hell at all Therfore Hades heere in no sort signifyeth Hell but only Death or the power of Death or the world and kingdom of Death or something to that effect onely Yea the very text seemeth thus to expound it selfe saying Where is thy sting O Hades The sting of Death is sinne Where the later seemeth a very direct answer and exposition of the former words Thus The sting of Death or Hades is sinne noting these 2. wordes Hades and Death as Synonimaes for one thing beeing applyed to men Or if “ Pag. 408. you will haue them to differ He may take Hades for the * As it vtterly â—aketh away 〈◊〉 witholdeth â—rom a visible â—â—ate Power strength of Death which the brain-sick Idolators made a God or the Dominion and Kingdome of Death These respectes Hades might well haue with the Apostle which differ from Thanatos Death the meere separation of the Soule from the Body which yet in effect are all one and haue no difference touching our purpose Like as we saw a Pa. 1â— c. 1 before howe all Authours have vsed them Further The Grave of the Wicked is not to be nâ—med nor reckoned Hell properly nor any part thereof In Hell there wanteth not sense of paine If you say it is an entrance to hell and that which holdeth and reserveth the wicked vnto hell Yet then it is not Hell for even thus the Grave and Hell doe greatly differ Finally Hades is b See 〈◊〉 pag. 1â— adversarie to the Resurrection But Hell would not bee adversarie to the Resurrection Therefore Hades heere is not hell no not to the wicked Death in deed and the Dominion of Death is an adversarie to the Resurrection and at that day it shal be vanquished and vtterly abolished when all flesh shall liue againe As for Hell that shall increase theÌ„ and bee advanced when all the wicked both bodyes and Soules shal be subdued vnder it for ever Therfore Hades heere is not hell but the power of Death as hath bene saide or the Dominion of Death or meerely to that effect Also we are to note that the Apostle heere plainly alludeth to that of Hoseah c Hose O Sheol ò kingdom of death or power of ' Death I wil be thy destruction Not o Hell For the Prophet speaketh this to comfort Israel in their captivitie against their continuall Destructions and razings out from this world shewing that now the Lord would stay his iudgement that way Death which had consumed them should now destroy them no more but they should liue and flourish againe This the Apostle might notably allude vnto speaking of the ResurrectioÌ„ As for Hell if the Prophet had meant it as he doeth not the Apostle could make no allusion to it nor haue any thing to deale wch it in this matter of the ResurrectioÌ„ simply So that where you say what reason is there to exclude out of these words Christs victorie over Hell it is very weake What reason is there to include it where the Apostle speaketh only of our resurrection from bodily Death and of nothing els Next we come to the RevelatioÌ„ First a Rev. I have the Keyes of Hades that is of Destruction or of the * The â—â—ble wâ—â—â— the Dâ—â—â— kingdome of death and of Death Or we may take them as 2. words for one and the same thing that is both of them for Death For heere Christ sheweth only that as He was dead so nowe he hath overcome Death hath power to dy no more as I hauâ— b Treaâ— pa 11â— heeretofore noted What shew of reason haue c Pa 17 you then to bringe in heere Christes power over the Damned Soules in Hell Because there is mention â—lswhere of the Key of hell Therefore the Key of hâ—des heer is the same What color of reasoÌ„ is there in this Again a One sitteth on a pale horse whose name was Death Rev. 6.8 Hades Desâ—â—â—on the world of the Dead or the Kingdom of Death followed aâ—ter â—â—m Thâ—â— in no wise can be Hel because the text addeth Power 〈…〉 them to slay with the sword and with samine and death and with wilde beasts Hell slayeth none in that sorte these are not the weapons of Hell but of the Dominion and Power of Death thâ—se and such other mo â—ag 406. are the proper weapons b You take it to bâ— the power of the Divell because the Divell slayeth somâ—times the bodyes of men Which you proue by the bodily slaying and siniting of Iob and his children This indeed is the thing which we holde This is not the Torments of Hell in the place of Damned these be onely bodily harmes and death So that heereby you confirme our purpose for we denie not but God somtime vseth Satan to punish and to slay the bodies of men But seeing this is nothing but Death not Hell which then is inflicted therefore it is bâ—st to take Hades heere most generally as the nature of it is for the Power of Death or the world of the Dead Hell by no meanes it can be â—â—g 398. You tell me in c one place that my best skill is in varying phrases It is better to vary phrases then to vary opinions as you very often doe I vary phrases to expresse Hades which in Authours is not alwayes the same thing or at least not after the same maner Whose generall largenes which it properly hath can not in one word be expressed in English Wherefore my varying of phâ—ases to this purpose I hope is pardonable sith indeed it is necessarie That coÌ„iecture of mine of the 4th part of the worlde 's not going to Hell at once I never esteemed it worth the standing on I he last place is †Death and Hades
them the Locall Hell eternall punishment Diminution of faith Holines c. with Desperation â—reat 1. â—â— 40 Reiection vtter darknes c As for my wordes which you wrest that way they are cleared by my Opening this Question both before and after Wherefore wee plainly tell you that we defie and detest in our heartes as well as you all these blasphemous wicked thoughtes of the Sonne of God our most glorious and gratious Redeemer And yet if you had vnderstoode those Phrases the whole Câ—rse of God His whole Wrath All the sorrowes of Hell onely toâ—ching the sense of Meere paines that Christ feeling the proper wrath and Iustice of God punishing him for our sinnes felt as extreeme sharpnes of paines which had no mixture of sinne as may in any possibilitie be endured yea though in Hell it selfe and so a kinde also of “ As in 〈◊〉 place I 〈◊〉 â—hew forsaking in them a kinde of * Such as 〈◊〉 self explaiâ—â—â— pag. 245 And as 〈◊〉 Curse is nâ— words bâ— deeds pa. Cursing and hatred and condemnation and a sense of burning wrath which he being our high Priest and Sacrifice was appointed vnto and which payment of ours was by God layed vpon him being our Redeemer and Ransompayer Surety and that all this he sustayned and suffered for a time in this life so deeply wofully as was possible for a man any where to suffer which was also wery God I say if this had ben your meaning we would not then hold it blasphemous nor erronious as “ Epiâ—p you obiect it vnto vs but the very truth indeed to say Hee suffered the true paines of Hell and the wholl wrath of God Which verily your own words also in some places do imply yea at least so much and that manifestly enough it seemeth as before I haue observed But to wade further then this and to particularize or to specifie the parts of Gods wrath which Christ felt as * Pa. â—47 you will vs to do or to shew the manner how or the certaine measure how deepely he suffered it what madnes were it in men to attempt and what folly is it in any to requier This sufficeth that we know God is able aswell out of the locall Hell as in it to reveale and inflict spiritually this wrath where he findeth sinne vnsatisfied and in Christ the vnion of his Godhead might admit it in his Manhood his Soule was capeable apt to discerne and feele immediatly the impression thereof in it selfe Now because also God was heere bent to punish all our most horrible sinnes in Christ and he was ordained to receave the same vpon himselfe and God was never to punish them truly any more nor any where ells and because of the proportion of Gods exact Iustice which dispenseth not where there is no necessitie for dispensation because also of Christes taking our wholl nature for no needfull purpose at all without this and lastly by reason of many pregnant texts of Scripture proving by infallible arguments that thus surely it was in this mystery of Christs purchasing our redemption which you in all your writing have no whit defeated therefore we are vndoubtedly perswaded that this is the very truth of God Namely as “ Treat 80.81.7 before I taught as touching the sense of paine and vehemency of sorrow that Christ suffered for vs All and wholly the wrath of God and his bitter Curse That is as I said so far as * Pa. 37. possibillity would admit so far as he being also very God and a man not possible to sinne could suffer Neither is there any peece of reason on your parte for the contrary And this is much more I trust then to suffer in Soule by Sympathy only from and by and with the Body Pag. 13.14 which as before I shewed you plainly do make the only wholl suffering of Christ for our Redemption which kindâ— of suffering all Godly men doe suffer also when the wicked in the world do afflict and persecute them But touching suffering of Martiâ—s and godly men Pag. 8.11 it is not intruth as †before is shewed of that kinde as Christes suffering was and therefore this suffering of the Soule onely by Sympathy commeth nothing neere to the sorrowes of the suffering of Christ which hee suffered from the hand of Gods offended Iustice and pure Holines and Wrathfull power infinitly satisfying it selfe on him for our sinnes which by his office he receaved vpon himselfe to acquite vs from the same This no Martir nor godly man doth who suffer only as from the malice and rage of men â—â—â—d therefore â—â—â—ey are so â—â—â—eerefull at â—â—â—eir Death â—â—â—hen Christe is extremeâ—â—â— sorrowfull from God there proceedeth nothing but fatherly chastenings to them his very wrath indeed for their sinnes appeareth not at all against them which they know Christ hath once borne and for ever dissolved You haue wordes in some places as if you hâ—ld this difference with vs of Christes sufferinges compared with the suffering of Martirs Namely where you say Pag. 248 Christ suffered the wrath of God punishing sinne â—ag 257 not * in his Body only but in his Soule also by some proper punishments of the Soule as by sorrow and feare in his Agony c. Howbeit though these wordes seeme plaine yet I perceave ambiguity and fallacy in them yea also I thinke a great errour First your fallacy is in that you meane sorrow and feare indeed properly in his Soule but not any proper Punishment of sinne nor comming for any paine or smart that he felt inflicted for sinne but it was meere Devotion to God 2 1â—4.23.9 144 290 Love pity compassion towards men Which say you could not be without some feare and zeale and griefe That is true but this is a notable fallacy For many thinke that you meane Christ suffered such sorrow and paine as was both proper to the Soule and was the proper punishment of sinne also But then had you heerein fully agreed with vs. Nowe that Religious Devotion godly and â—â—â—tâ—ous Aâ—â—tions and Pity are properly partes of Christes Holines and righteousnes not of his Sufferings for sinne For these 2. parts of Christes Mediation I trust you will distinguish And surely Christs Agonie was properly a part of his most bitter Passion not of his Obedience and Righteousnes albeit even in suffering also he was perfitly obedient Thus then you are never the neerer to the truth in this point for all your seeming Againe considering what you write of the wrath “ Pa. 130 132.246 of God which the Godly generally do suffer you seeme to me to thinke that every Martiâ—s death and all the crosses and griefes both of body and minde in the godly are very * For yoâ— make Gâ—â— Wrath â—â—â—ferent to men who afflicted punishments of sinne and right effects of Gods Iustice and wrath taking properly vengeance on them
â—â—s heere â—â—g 16. e that no more but the shedding of his bloud onely and meerely is the iust and full satisfaction of all our sinnes even in the righteous and sincere iudgment of God Then we absolutly deny your Assertion as before we haue don the like As for your a 1 Pet. 1 Rev. 5. â— alleaged Scriptures we answer them as we did generally b Treat pag. 8.9 before that they meane not the meere bloud of Christ nor only the body singly and simply considered but that togeather with the proper sufferings of his Soule also they were the iust and full satisfaction and redemption Against which you have nothing any where And likewise our advised and resolut answere is to c pag. 58 60 61 7â— c. all the rest of your scriptures which most tediously and vainly you heape vp scatter every wherein your former treatise to this effect as if they contayned somwhat for your purpose when as indeed there is not one text any where that hath any meaning of your strange conceit So that wee shall have no need to trouble our selves any more heereafter about any of them Yet d pag. 24â— heere you vrge a reason against vs Jf our Soules be not redeemed by the bloud of Christ our bodyes have no benefit of redemption you meane from death But we e 1. Pet. 1 Rev. 5.9 are redeemed not we shal be Ergo it is our Soules which are redeemed our bodyes are not redeemed as yet in this life Wherein we have to note 3. things 1. Your Proposition is vaine and illogicall having no consequence in it at all Which maketh mee to thinke that I hit your meaning right and mistooke you not in my former booke Howbeit to try this your sentence heere what if our Soules were not at all redeemed by Christes bloud but some other way or not by his bloud meerely and onely which indeede is our quaestion will it follow that therefore our bodyes are still mortall and therefore not redeemed from death Or what if our Soules be redeemed by his bloud as indeed they are though not wholly nor only thereby What followeth then from this Nay what if our Soules and Bodyes were redeemed wholly and only by Christs bloud Is these any consequence that therefore our bodyes should now be redeemed from death and never dy Truly I cannot discerne but that your proposition meaneth some such consequence as this which is to me a vey strang reason Yet that which you ad f Pag. 2â— afterward is more strang Jf our Soules be not redeemed wholly by the meere bloud of Christ For thus still I say you must make your wordes or ells you aske the very Quaestion then our bodyes have vtterly no good even no good at all by the death of Christ. In which sequele verily I can see neither head nor taile Chose you now whether you will that you speake this sophistically or absurdly For I cannot discerne it I leave it therefore to your self to determine But perhaps you will yet againe go backe to that you excused your selfe withall before You will meane that our bodies in this life have no benefit of redemption from death even no more then the bodies of Infidels And this plainly you avouch for truth Is this true Are not our bodies now already freed from the curse the sting of death from all the hurt harme that properly and naturally is in death Is it not made vnto vs a quiet sleepe and a peaceable rest an entrance for our Soules into Heaven a putting off of sin to our bodies in such wise that Christ taketh from it the a name of Death and calleth it but b a passage â—oh 8.51 Or have the Jnfidels also thus much benefit in death â—oh 5 2â— as wee have in it by our redemption in Christe I know not therefore how to terme this your assertion I forbeare to name it as it deserveth it is more then strange that Infidels bodies should have as much benefit of nedemption from death as our bodies have by Christ Dy I grant or cease to breath we must and do still even as they do And this death by the naturall property of it is a part of Gods Curse but to the faithful there are great benefits ioyned even in death by the gracious dealing of God peculiarly towardes his children which also their bodies are partakers of thorough the death of Christ The naturall sting is taken out of it for the godly yet it remayneth to the Infidells and hurteth them by retayning even their bodies though dead in vnder Gods dreadfull Curse Wherefore it makes many to thinke that indeed you vttered this matter somewhat otherwise in your Sermons then heere you doe now publish it and it perswadeth mee still that c I mistooke you not â—â—eat 1. â—â—g 11. seeing this your turning setting of it is so vnhansom For every one may see by this your handling of it that then you said more then heere you expresse and heere you would faine fashion it to somwhat but you cannot Yea your own words bewray som alteration froÌ„ that which so confidently you preached where you say Whatsoever the wordes were that you might vse which you do not acknowledge to be these that I bring â—ag 240. Lastly d you grant that you vsed this reason in handling the power of Christes death that is when you preached it For now in this Treatise you have cleane left it out for ought that e I can see which bewrayeth that it was such 〈◊〉 88.113 as your selfe saw was not to be maintayned howsoever heere you strive to set some colour vpon it though yet still in vaine Before we depart from this point That not the bloud of Christ nor his flesh meerely and only without respect to the merit of his whole Soule was the full price of Redemption heere is fit place to shew how sundry of the Ancient Fathers do agree with vs sufficiently in this matter although afterward in your booke you seeme to bring them against vs. But indeed so they seeme onely for in truth they are with vs as by these following we may see First a Ireâ— 5. Irenaeus The Lord bought vs with his owne bloud and gave his soule for our soules his flesh for our flesh b Cyr. de 〈◊〉 fid ad Tâ—â— Cyrill He bestowed his flesh as a ransome for our flesh and made his Soule likewise a price of redemption for our Soules although he lived againe being by nature life it selfe c Naz. in trâ—â— 49. ad Clâ—â— Nazianzen maketh every part of man to be sanctified by the like in Christ our condemned flesh by his flesh our soule by his soule our vnderstanding by his vnderstanding d Ambr. 〈◊〉 Luc. 22. 〈◊〉 trist doloâ—â— c. Ambrose saith Maerorem animae nostrae suae animae maerore abolevit He abolished the sorrow of our Soule by the sorrow of
other fancyes fictions of the Heathen As for example Zeus Iupiter was among the Heathens their great God he only was their highest of whom besides they held a 1000. fables and indeed he was none other but a Divell as is before noted Nevertheles the Apostle vseth the same for the only true God the author and governour of Heaven and Earth passing by all their Fables when he applyeth the Poets verse a Act. 2â— His generation also we are Tartarus which b Pag. 3â— you obiect though rarely sometime perhaps a Philosopher will note thereby the Ayer yet indeed vsually and in a maner alwayes they meant Hell by it with a thousand of dreames thereto belonging Yet Peter not canonizing nor commending their dreames and fictions of Hell notwithstanding signifyeth Hell indeed by that worde of theirs according to their common vse thereof and according to the proportion of truth which therein they held So Daimonion which also c Pag. ibâ—â— you obiect they vsed to signifie by it both good and bad Spirits following and conversing with them and the good they honoured as Gods But indeede and in truth seeing these same were all Divels therefore the Scripture holdeth not the Heathens erroneous meaning in this word yet it doth retayne that which they vnderstood by it truly that is to signifie Divells and bad spirits Againe Theos the Heathen vsed for to expresse the Nature of God but so as that they thought it coÌ„mon to many severall Gods The Apostles vse the word also for the true God yet not vnderstanding therein a nature common to many which error they otherwise cleerely and often refute And thus we might speake of infinit mo the like wordes as Feare the power and strength whereof they also fained to be a God and of Hope and of Revenge Goddesses c. Like wherevnto is Hades even that which presently we have in hande The diveâ—â— applicatâ—â— of Hadeâ— With the HeatheÌ„ it commonly and most vsually signified the state of Dead men somtime rarely the Destruction of other things which perish out of this visible world haue no more being heere Whereof anon we shall see further Howbeit now to consider it as it respecteth men only thus the Heathens chiefly and commonly by Hades vnderstoode the state I say and Condition of men both good and bad deceased and gone out of this world And they meant it commonly for the Destruction of their persons from out of this world generally and indifferently Againe oftentimes particularly touching their Bodyes buriall also particularly many things touching their Soules state being parted from the Body Some of which they believed were in Blessednes some in Tormentes although they signified neither of these in the word Hades but onely as I said their state after their departure hence Also they thought some of the Blessed Soules to be in the a chiefest Blessednes â—Vhich you â—â—iect pag. â—â—4 376. that was in presense with the Gods Yet they were in Hades also that is in an other world after they were wiped out from hence Hither they admitted onlie Philosophers Treat 1 pa. â— Heroês such like Thus hither it is that b Plato assigneth Socrates and thus Socrates him selfe hopeth to goe to Hades to the wise and good God Other Soules of good men they gave Blessednes vnto in the Elysian fieldes vnder the earth as they fancied or where els I know not And these were also in Hades So that both these estates and condicions of blessed Soules deceased which was their Heaven though differing very much in places they yeeldâ—d to be in Hades Whence I thinke some of the Fathers and after them some Papistes haue fayned divers places of rest and ioy to the Dead Heaven presently to the Martyrs but to other good Christians an other place of rest ioy which they called Abrahams bosome either in the earth or where they also knew not Howbeit into the glory of Heauen and the presence of God and of Christ they admit none save only the Martyrs before the last day But this errour and all other errors about Hades the Apostles sufficiently confute in their writings so that we are not now to respect the same in the vse of Hades Onely we are therefore to note how much and what besides all errours may bee truly retayned and meant by the Apostles in applying this worde Hades as the Heathen did to both sortes of Soules of Dead men They might truely vnderstand that both have one common condicion and state as touching their being in another world as they were dissolved departed from and wiped out of this visible world aâ— they were now in the world of the Dead an opposite estate condicion to the living This also the very Natural Etymologie of the word according to Grammar doeth properly yeeld in that it signifieth c Vnseene Hades The â—â—ke may be â—â—â—id of Sheol or Not seene any more in this world or an estate not seene heere with vs topos aîdes an Vnseene place as Plato calleth it Where note it cannot be referred to the estate of Angels because Hades is the vnseene state of them that once had a visible and ordinary being and conversation heere in this world So that in very deed it hath properly but a Privative sense not any thing positive in it though this d you can not brooke All this then the Apostles might well vnderstand allow in the word Hades Pag. 396. without any taint of Heathenisme And therfore also doubtles so they did But the heathens further made Hades a Divine power whom also they called Pluto as it were the God of Death or of the Dead because as before is shewed they dreamed that he held all that were Dead vnder his power both blessed damned soules And because no man that dyeth whether good or bad doeth ever live heere againe and because all whosoever without exception must dy therefore they call him Hades améilichos kai adámastos implaâ—able and vnmastered and Nélees êtor echôn having a mercilesso bea rt In which sense in Latin also they vsed Parca Destiny the ende of all because it spareth none Certainly this Deifying of such a Power or to make a God of it the Apostles abhorred and every where in their writinges they shew what Idolatry and extreame impiety it is But yet they may and do acknowledg such a power of Death which worketh this Destruction of all men froÌ„ the world detayneth them in Death afterward Wherefore they have in sundry places Prosopopoeas thereof as in the Revelation the Keyes of Death and Hades Death riding on a pale horse and Hades following after him Death and Hades yeelded vp their dead and both were cast into Hell Likewise that O Death where is thy sting O Power of death where is thy victory But of these more anon Hitherto the 1. observation is manefest that the Apostles vsing the Heathens words yet need not nor
it Nâ—â—nim ipsâ—â— in celo â—â—rus crat â—â—mo Chrâ—â— Iesus Divine presense in Paradice But you refuse that because * Pag. 21 wee have no warrant in the word of God to fasten Christs Soule vnto Hell for the time of his Death that it might not be in Paradise before he descended to Hell Third You “ Pa. 196 renounce Austen and as he saith almost all the Church thinking that Christ loosed Adam and som others whom he thought good out of the paines of Hell wherein till his going thither they were held Fourth Against all the Fathers * Pa. 188 200. you affirme it to bee more then manefest that Christ did not fetch the Patriarches out of Limbo Patrum a certaine region of rest vnder the earth as they generally thought Fift “ Pa. 18â— You renounce divers Fathers opinion that * None eâ—â— Martyrs tull none do go into Heaven till after the last Judgment Thus we observe your liberty in leaving the Fathers when you see cause Why deny you vnto vs the like If we bring not as good reason to dissent as you do whensoever we vary from them let vs heare of it and beare the blame iustly This only we desire that in any case of Religion the bare custom of times the opinioÌ„ of men and authority meerely Humane should never barre vs from receaving the simplicity and evidence of the truth concerning vs which appeareth in the Scripture But now that we may proceede let vs see your speciall examples pag. 229. wherein you will make it manefest that J have despised the Fathers First pag. 229. * where you say out of certaine Fathers That Christ in his dying gaue vp his Spirite miraculously pag. 7. * no violence of Death wresting it from him as it doth ours pag. 229. but when hee saw his time hee even at an instant laid it downe of himselfe no paines hastening his death Heb. 4.15 Contrary to this I alleaged the Scripture He was like vs in all things sinne only excepted To answer this * you reply Was he like vs in his birth Pag. 230. Can we lye in the Grave without corruption as he lay Neither yet his flesh ly he Grave hoat possiâ—â—y to cotâ—â—t otherwise â—n as his â—â—es possibly â—â—d not be â—â—en Or raise our selves from death as he did Which poore answere I wonder to see comming from you Aswell you might shew further He was not like vs in that he walked vpon the water nor in that he fasted 40. dayes nor in that he knew the secrets of mens hearts nor in that he turned water into wine and with a word healed all diseases c. These things don by his Manhood yet were they the proper effects of his Godhead they were no naturall but supernaturall thinges But this text to the Hebrues saith onely of naturall Humane properties and infirmities that Christ in them was altogeather like vs sinne excepted Also this maner of Dying whereof we speake that is by sore wounds and blowes by sharpe outrages and deadly paines to draw neerer and neerer to Death is a meere natural infirmity and incident to all men Therefore surely in this very maner did Christ dy also like as all men vse to do in such case Againe those Divine effectes which you mention are iustly beleeved to haue bene in Christ Why Because of the expresse Scripture that * witnesseth the same 〈◊〉 1.23 25.1.2.27 â—â—â—n 1.3 4. â— 1.10.18 Let mee see expresse words in the text that he Dyed as you say not naturally but Miraculously and then will I beleeue it also You cite certain places by which you would prove it â—â—h 10.18 As No man taketh my soule from me but J lay it down of my selfe c. Hee meaneth heere that his Death was meere voluntary freely vndertaken and willingly of his owne accord perfourmed with such naturall and ordinary infirmities as belong to a man As you confesse somwhere * So that to dy even in Christ â—â—g 161. was infirmity though voluntary Heere then Christ denyeth that hee suffered any thing as forced on him by constraint violence but he sheweth that himselfe was altogeather willing even to Dy for his people which also “ pag. 11â— you plainly see How will you hence conclude Ergo He dyed miraculously not by any fayling of the strength of nature in him notwithstanding all his most intolerable sorrowes and paines This is truly a miraculous argument As for Chrisostom whom * pag. â—3â— you cite heerevpon he hath nothing for this point Though it were new not ordinary that Christ a man should haue power to lay down his life and power to take it againe yet why may not his manhood dy naturally notwithstanding But you will conclude this better If I deny you say this that Chrisostom saith I must remember what God himself saith “ Luc. 12. O foole this night shall they fetch away thy soule from thee I remeÌ„ber it well What then Ergo Christ saying None taketh my life from me c. meant that he would dy miraculously and not by the fayling of nature in him If this be the reason as I take it to bee verily I grant it is marveylous subtile and past my reach Further * pag. 7. you cite that “ Ion. 19. When Jesus had tasted the vineger he said All is finished and bowed the head and gave vp the Ghost What proveth this Surely that at last after long and sore anguish of minde and bodily torments his naturall strength fayled him therefore he bowed his head and gaue vp the Ghost What miracle is there in this But Barnard saith this proveth plainly an infinit power Which doth His tasting the vineger or his saying it is finished or his bowing the head or his giving vp the Ghost For my part I can not yet see any infinit power in any of these Wherefore I can not rest on Barnard heere except you for him do finde out som other point in the text to prove plainly an infinit power shewed openly in the maner of the Death of Christ which yet I see not Giue me leaue to refuse the Fathers in such a case which your selfe doth as we saw before Then you alleage that * Luke 23. Iesus cryed with a lowd voyce a little while before he dyed to shew himself “ pag 7. say you to be free from any touch of death How are you sure of that What Scripture saith so Or is there absolut necessitie in reason that it must be so Questionles none at all Is it a thing not possible that Christ should cry alowd saying Father into thy hands J commend my Spirit and even anon after dy and yet nature to haue ben weaker in him and so himself neerer to death now at last then he was before in the beginning of his Passion Let all wise men iudge If this be not possible I will
Pag. 2â— you simply call it neither is it f Pag. 2â— vncleane nor irreverent nor irreligious but a holy most fit representation of Christs paying our debt for vs and of our acquitting from the iustice of God by him The very word is vsed in Scripture it selfe g Heb. â—â— Hee was made a Surety of a better covenant Which also expresly you grant h Pag. â—â— That Christe is made a Surety wee finde it once mentioned in the Scripture Is not that sufficient then to warrant the goodnesse and aptnes of the similitude against your vndutyfull reproofes of it But you say he was not as a Surety bound to the Law but of a better Covenant even of grace Verily a Surety to vs of both Yea this latter implyeth necessarily the former vnles you imagine Gods Iustice needed not exact satisfaction so far as was possible or that there might be 2 Sureties to bring vs into grace and favour with God For he could not assure vs of remission of sinnes but by assuring vs that he had exactly paid all our debts Yea none could pay them for vs throughly acquit himself also but only he Therefore by being a Surety to vs of grace it must needes bee also that he and none other was our Surety to the Law and to the iustice of God 〈◊〉 4.4 Thus also it is written that a He was made hyponomon subiect to the Law 〈◊〉 277. or vnder the Law Which b you mightily deny against expresse Scripture But by what reason Because he was a Mediatour to God for vs. â—â—ns honeâ—vtia â—st conâ—â— 14.6 Now Sureties that stand bound must pay the debt may not looke to be Mediatours Yes forsooth such a Surety as he was might worthily be a gracious Mediatour also Though he were a Surety and stood bound yet he was no ordinary Surety Though the debt were infinit yet hee was more infinit in grace and power both to pay it and to overcome it and by his obedience and righteousnes to merit for vs yea even in his suffering What letteth then that such a person as he might be a Mediatour to purchase also grace and favour even in and besides his satisfaction for vs. c You say he could not be bound to the Law because he was above the Law 〈◊〉 276. He was above the Lawe in his Godhead but in his Manhood hee became for vs d vnder the Law Againe 〈◊〉 4 4. he was not of him self in his Manhood bound to the Law for us but freely and voluntarily vndertaking and by Gods gracious eternall Decree appointing him so he became bound to the Law Wherefore though e he who ordinarily redeemeth a prisoner from the enemie 〈◊〉 â—77 be not bound but content so to doe yet a Suretie being content 〈◊〉 became the Law â—unde to â—â—w for vs â—â—ds Deâ—â—d Ordiâ—â— and by â—ne free will becommeth bound And so Christ our Redeemer became bound as a Surety to pay our debt for vs by the most stedfast and immutable Decree of God and yet also by his owne most free good will Yea Gods Decree and his owne good will was that he should satisfie and pay none otherwise for vs then so as hee did Therefore those Sentences of f your Authours Gregorie Augustin and Ambrose if they bee spoken simply 〈◊〉 277. seeme very harsh where they saye That Christ could have saved vs otherwayes then by suffering and dying for vs. For heerein they oppose Gods absolut Omnipotencie against his expresse and revealed will Which how it may be liked in Divinitie I know not Wherefore still all these similitudes of Mediator Redeemer and Suretie may stand very well togeather in the Office of Christ though a Pag. you would perswade vs the contrary yea rather they confirme each other Certainly these Similitudes of a Suertie and a Mediatour are very approved excellent to set out most heavenly his great Grace and Iustice by earthly things Our publike Churches doctrine also avoncheth that hee was b Nowâ— techis fore paâ— our Suretie With Christ as our Suretie so suffering God dealt as it were in extremitie of Law c. Also Cyprian c Cypriâ— passioâ— In saying why hast thou for saken me he sheweth the sorrowes of that his complayning to be the wordes Delictorum suorum or Dilectorum suorum of his sinnes or if you so thinke rather of his beloved ones whose person case he tooke vpon him And this he would have vs to know that it was for them or in their steed who by reason of their sinnes deserved to be for saken of God You d Pag. 3â— answer that these wordes of Cyprian I neyther vnderstand nor like I pray why so Because Augustin saieth Illa vox membrorumerat non capitis That Cry was of his Members not of the Head Whatsoever Austins meaning is herein yet Cyprians wordes are plaine and can not beare any other sense then as I make of them that Christ was a very Surety for his people and suffered such a forsaking of God touching sense of paine and want of present feeling of comfort in the paines as the damned doe And touching Austin also I suppose you mis-vnderstand him but of his minde touching this speach of Christ on the Crosse we shall see further heereafter I adde vnto all this last of all your owne grant where you fully yeeld and acknowledge that Christ was our very Suertie to the Law and that he did suffer iustly or in Gods iustice The vengeance of the Law say e Pag. 9â—â— you once executed on our Suretie can no more in Gods iustice be exacted on vs. * Pag. 13â— Elswhere also you allow of this Similitude which yet f Pag. 27â— 276. 279. manie times you reiect most disdainfully Yea in that your sentence you overthrow g Pag. 27â— your owne chiefe exception which you make against it that he was not our Surety to the Law to pay our debtes If the vengeance of the Lawe lighted on him as on a Suretie then he was our Suretie to the Law and if this vengeance of the Law caÌ„ not now in Gods iustice be exacted on vs then he as our Suretie to the Law by suffering it hath cleered vs from it And to conclude that which he suffered as being our Suertie the same before God he suffered in iustice as is before proved And in vaine you exclaime that this is a against the Scriptures Pag. 272. against the faith against the Fathers against the Consciences of Gods people seeing it appeareth not to be against Pag. 182. but with all these b Your Similitude of a Kings sonne intreating for his Fathers Rebells is very weake and overthroweth if it were good a confessed point of Christes Redemption For by this similitude Christ should not have suffered bodily death for vs seeing no King hath lawfull power by anie meanes to lay bodily death on any such Surety much
his meere bodily Death which he so wofully and impotently feared as I haue before sufficiently coÌ„firmed Therefore it was the death of the soule the 2. Death which heere is vnderstood to have thus mightily afflicted Christ Which also your own selfe do d Pag. â—â— fully grant and affirme with me Yea you affirme further then we doe or then the truth is or possibly can be You say Christ heere thus feared Eternall death and Everlasting damnation What a speach is this Christ could not possibly feare in such wofull maner that which he perfitly knew should never come neere him But he perfitly knew that eternall Death and the Cup of Gods everlasting malediction should never touch him He knew and saw that this by Gods almighty and vnchangeable Decree was set further from him then the East is from the West yea then Hell is from HeaveÌ„ Therefore he could not by any meanes possibly feare eternall death nor pray in such sort against it Againe that which he feared and so pitifully prayed against was that which he knew was by God e Iohn 12 ordayned for him Yea Feare alwayes is of that which is to come But Eternall death was not by God ordayned for him that was “ Which Christ 〈◊〉 right wâ— not to come vnto him Therfore it was not Eternall death which he so feared Finally when in the Garden he prayed against that Cup which he feared that it might passe from him there he yeeldeth and submitteth himselfe presently to the vndergoing of it But it were I know not what to say that Christ did ever yeeld and submit himselfe to vndergo Eternall death or to tast the Cup of Gods everlasting malediction Therefore it was not this that he feared heere prayed against And yet it was I grant the Death of the Soule or the 2. Death that is simply the essense thereof Gods withdrawing himselfe from him in the Paines and torments thereof This onely it was He suffer that deatâ— which he feared not the eternity thereof nor sinfull concomitants which he thus feared And this for the infinitnes of it naturally he could not but feare yea and that so extreamely also he feared f â—ôzein for him selfe as knowing it to be ordayned for him So that hence it followeth invincibly that Christ in deed suffered sith he thus feared more then the meere bodily Death even the Death of the soule For he could not I say thus * Much yeeld to iâ— he did sâ—â—ing Thy â—â—â—don feare but he must needs know that it was to come or might com vnto him â—wed furâ—â— before 131.132 if he but knew that it might come then it * certainly did come vnto him at one time or other in his Passion before heâ— left the world See to the Hebr. g Christ abolished through death him that had the power of death that is the Divell and so delivered all them which for feare of death were all their life time subiect to bondage â—â—b 2.14 Heere I see no reason in the world but that the Apostle by â—his often repeating of death and by mutuall referring of it in one place as it were to the other doth vnderstand signifie one and the same death altogeather But it is the death of the Soule which the Divell hath the power and execution of also the death of the soule chiefly sinful men were held in feare of all their life long It followeth then I suppose that even through this death of the Soule Christ abolished the Divell and deliveted his children Specially seeing there is no enormity nor impossibilitie heerein Against this you haue no reason at all but wordes and wrestings and vaine ostentation of Fathers none of them all denying our sense Third it seemeth also that Peter teacheth this same Pet. 3.18 saying k Christ in his suffering was don to death in the Flesh but made alive by the Spirit Where Death may be very well referred both to the Soule and Body of Christ Because the text heere speaketh as I iudge of the whole and entire sufferings of Christ And it is manifest by that before that Christ did suffer not in his body only but properly and immediatly also in his Soule we haue seene also that the * phrase of Death 〈◊〉 135.136 or Dying may in a good sense be applyed even to Christes Soule Againe this word Flesh it seemeth can not heere in this place be vnderstood to signifie onely the Body of Christ but even both partes of his Humane nature thar is the reasonable Soule and the body My reason is because wheresoever in scripture the Flesh and the Spirit are noted oppositly togeather in Christ â—â—m 1.3 4. â—im 3.16 â—oh 4.2 〈◊〉 1.14 â—or 5.7 â—4 1.4.1 â—â—g 320. there the i Flesh signifieth alwayes his whole Humanity even both partes thereof the Soule also not the Body only the Spirit signifieth his Deity or Divine power Now what have you against this Nothing of waight but floutes and mockes that k this observation is made out of the hinder partâ— of my head c. But what pretend you against it Some Scripture palpably abused First Mathew where Christ speaketh of his Disciples that their Spirit their inward regenerat man was ready to watch â—ath 26. but their Flesh their corrupt nature was weak sluggish What is this to Christes Flesh and Spirit Thinke you that Christs Soule was willing to suffer as God had appointed but that his Flesh resisted Verily so you seeme heere to vnderstand An vntrâ—â— conceit and it is as likely as your applying of Flesh and Spirit to Christ in your pag. 104. Then a Luk. 2. Luke where both Spirit and Flesh are not intended of Christ as our observation before requireth but only the Flesh Then the Romanes where I affirme that b Rom. Flesh signifieth the whole Manhood of Christ according to the which he came from David even as well as SalomoÌ„ or Nathan did who were Davids sonnes in their entire and perfit nature So likewise Christe was kinne to the Iewes according to his c Rom. 9 whole Humanitie aswel as d ver 3. Paul was And heere Paul meaneth him selfe to be kinne to them according to Nature wholly that only by Regeneration in the Gospell he was differing from them Now Nature opposed to Grace and regeneration hath reference both to Soule and Body in a man Howsoever the Soule cometh in Generation that is not heere considered neither is it necessarily to the purpose Which difficulty also your selfe haue vtterly * Pag. 2â— renouÌ„ced before to make it any argument for you in this matter Thus yet the Flesh and the Spirit thus opposed heere in Christ shall signifie the whole Manhood and Godhead in him Further that which e Pa. 32 you bring out of the f 2. Corâ— Corinthians compared with this in Peter doeth most fitlie and clearely open and confirme the
effect they are all one with Thanatos Death but that Thanatos belongeth properly to Bodyes Hades Sheol sometimes to Bodyes sometime to Soules of Men indifferently Yea sometime these 2. are applyed though more rarely to other things also which are in this visible world namely wheÌ„ they com to Destruction and No being any more as anon we shall better vnderstande Now let vs proceed and shew further even by the Scriptures first that Sheol and Hades are as I say more then once vsed for the generall condition of death wherein even iust mens soules are held or the mansion of soules departed aswell good as bad Then afterward the common consent of others will availe the more That a Psalm 4â— Psalme which intreateth wholy of Death of the impossibility to escape it of the power which it hath over the wicked whose ioy and pompe is only in this world in that it cutteth of all their hopes it endeth their pleasure and marreth all their bewty I say in this Psalme where all expresse circumstances do shew that the Prophet speaketh of this death not of Hell yet David heere saith * verse 1â— notwithstanding God shall deliver my soule from the power of Sheol that is death or the state of death when hee shall reoeave mee most mightily So Tremelius turneth it noting heere Davids hope of the Resurrection which I think he hath well vnderstood in this place Otherwise David might heere comfort himselfe in this that hee knew God would save him alive from this common death not alwayes as you friuolously obiect but oftentimes yea alwayes till he should enioy the Kingdome which indeed God did for him when he was neere death not seldome and when his enemies the wicked were caught therewith Againe that b Psal 8â— Psalme sheweth it also where it is thus written My Soule is filled with sorrowes and my life draweth neere to Sheol By his life he meaneth his soule the proper cause and fountayne of life in him which also in the first parte of the sentence hee expresly named As the manner of phrase in the Psalmes is in the 2. parte of the sentence commonly to speake of the same things that are vttered in the former but varying the termes That life heere should signifie the body distinctly from the soule there is no such likelyhood nor reason Indeed I deny not but life may signifie heere the whole person of man As in these â—esaide Psal â— 48. 49 â— 10 16. al â—116 8. in â—â—y many â—aces of scripâ—â—e besides and so may c nephesh the soule also very wel and then Sheol and Hades signifie not peculiarly and distinctly the Grave which only is for the carcase but the condition of the Whole maÌ„ after he hath no being in this world In which regard chose what sense you will either that nephesh and chai shall in all these places of the Psalmes before handled signifie strictly the soul as very fitly it may or the whole person of man consisting both of a soule and of a living body contrary to which estate Sheol and Hades is very often taken g That is if it â—re not strictly â—â—d peculiarly â—â—e habitation â—sâ—y Souls yet â—â—s the condiâ—ur of the whole â—son that is â—â—â—h of Soul â—â—dy separaâ—â— by Death â—ob 30.23 and d peradventure so it is vnderstood heere in these places In which sense Sheol Hades are far from signifying hell yea or heaven either yea or only and meerely the Grave but it signifieth destruction from out of this world no-being here any more as afore time to the whole person that is both to the Soule and to the Body And thus Sheol and Hades Iob resembleth to a house or Habitation where he nameth it †Beth mâ—gned lecol chai the habitation after this world appointed for every person or if you will for all living things The same also Iob wisheth and desireth of God to himselfe that God would hide him Bisheol in this world of the deceased â—ob 14.13 would give him terme till his wrath was overpast In another place he comforteth himselfe thinking quickly to enioye it saying †Jf I have any hope Sheol or Hades â—ob 17.13 the world of the deceased shal be my habitation He ioyneth therevnto also particularly the grave but as touching Sheol seeng Iob speaketh of it as his continuall habitation till the worldes end it cannot be meant only of the Grave for his body which indured but a very short time neither had his flesh any being at all after it was turned to very earth and wormes He speaketh heere therefore also of his soules continuing habitatioÌ„ or mansion in another world Gen. 37.35 because they â—â—ch dy their â—â—ons do fall â—â—vne according to the Latin â—â—tase cadere â—â—idere occuÌ„â—â— to Dy. And in greatest reason this is that which Iaacob meaneth when he saith He will goe downe mourning to his sonne iâ— Sheol That is He will mourne till he dy for this he meaneth by * going downe heere speaking of death And then he hopeth to enioye the societie of his deare sonne in soule For his body hee thought was devoured and digested in the bellies of wilde beasts therefore he would goe to the soule of his sonne in Sheol Or els vnderstanding heere the dissolution passage of his Whole person he may meane partly his going downe to the graue as touching his body and yet also the enioying of the societie of his deare sonne in Sheol which surely as J said could not bee in body but in soule Thus Sheol heere hath respect to the changed estate of Iacobs whole person dissolved and not to one parte thereof only his body but to his soule also and it hath respect likewise to the estate of his dead sonnes soule where this loving Father hoped againe to haue society with him not any where els without which he could not be comforted Albeit in another place it seemes hee limiteth Sheol to the graue only but that we doe so vnderstand by reason of the Circumstances a Gen. 42. you will bring my Gray Head with sorrow to the Grave But againe to follow our purpose Good Hezekiah also looked for Sheol to be his habitation likewise after this life I said saith “ Isay 38. â—â— 11 12. he I shall goe to the gates of Sheol the Land of the dead I shall not see the Lord in the Land of the living I shall see Man no more among the inhabitaÌ„ts of the world My habitation or Mansion is translated and removed from me as a sheapheards tent c. This heere cannot be the Grave nor Hell which he describeth For he thought he should theÌ„ have dyed and thus his habitation he thought should haue ben removed and translated from him that is I take it his body should be remoued from his soule which was the mansion or habitation of his soule while he lived but now he should
haue another age “ Dâ—r◠〈◊〉 age my coâ—â—nuance or during oâ— my maÌ„sioÌ„ or induring or Mansion and be remoued to another place This can not be vnderstood of his Carcase rotting and wasting away to nothing in the graue and therefore indureth not as the word signifieth therfore he meaneth it of his Soules removing and abiding elswhere Also he expresly opposeth the land of the living to Sheol therfore Sheol is the land of the dead not the graue only nor Hell only * Which alâ— to be collecâ— of that in Prophet toâ—â—ing Christ scinditurâ— râ viventiâ— Isai 53.8 but as large and as generall to the dead and as fit to receaue both the partes of men yea both good and bad men but separated and dissolved as the land of the living is to receave both those partes vnited and knit togeather Againe Hezekiah was a godly man therefore hell was not for him also though hee should not see the Lord in the land of the living which was the thing he desired yet thereby hee seemeth to insinuate that in the land of the dead hee might see him whither he was about to go and that must needes be the place of blessed Soules even that which heere is noted by the word Sheol â—â—g 150. It is a most vaine reason that you give that sheol heere is to be taken for Hell and so to be translated because death to the wicked is the passage to Hel which death Hezekiah was now neere vnto It is vntrue that Hezekiah was neere vnto that death which the wicked dy or that he feared that kind of death or that there is no sound differeÌ„ce betwene the death of the godly the death of the wicked or that by any meanes according to sound divinity the death of the godly may be named or taken for Hell This is so vaine that I will not stand any longer to answere it Another obiection of yours a is as weake Pag. 400. where you say Sheol heere must be the Grave because it is said b afterward ver 18. Sheol doth not confesse the death cannot praise thee c. Though I grant that the Grave is not heere excluded especially in the words next after They that go down to the pit cannot hope for thy truth yet I affirme that Sheol namely in the former place vers 10. cannot exclude the mansion of good mens soules departed hence that for the reasons aboue noted Neither heere doth this circumstance limite it to the Grave onely because it is said Sheol confesseth not thee For it is evident that He Zekiah meaneth not absolutly that there is no praising of God in Sheol but onely hee vnderstandeth that which c hee so greatly desired â—hich was ytâ—â—inary great â—re of the â—lly geneâ—y psal 42. 84.1 the outward frequenting of the Temple the holy Ceremonies and Sacrifices ioyning to the visible congregation and publishing of Gods goodnes to others Which hee expresseth immediatly to be that praising of God that he meaneth cannot be in Sheol by knitting close to the former these words d The living â—sa 38.19 the living he shall confesse thee as I do this day the Father to the Children shall declare the truth This is that which he denieth of sheol that none there doe praise God to the example and edifying of others He denyeth not simply nor absolutly that there is none in sheol at all in any respect that praise God The very same David expresseth also very plainly Psal 116.9 saing e I shall walke before the Lord in the land of the living Psal 118.17 and f I shall not dye but live and declare the workes of the Lord. Where vnlesse they meant only this visible praysing of God to others edifying otherwise these holy men had no cause so greatly to desire to praise God heere for they knew very wel how that for their own parts they should prayse him much better and more perfitly in the next world The Seâ—â—â—â—gint vse 〈◊〉 in the fanâ—â—â—â—â— To the very same purpose the Septuagint vse hades in other places also besides in their translating of these aforesaid For it is truly and well acknowledged by you g Pag 4â— that both these wordes Sheol and Hades are iust all one Now the Septuagint I say in other places do shew thus much also h Psal 9 〈◊〉 after the â—â—â—tuagint Jf the Lord had not holpen me my soule had almost dwelt in Hados in Hebrue it is in silence Which is not meant of hell for there is weeping and wayling and gnashing of teeth but of the state of death Nor yet of the Grave onely because heere it is named to bee the Habitation of the Prophets soule whither it was almost come when he was like to have dyed Againe i Psal 7â— My soule was filled with sorrowes and my life drew neere to hades How my soule and my lift heere are taken for the selfe same I have shewed before As also in that of Iob k Iob. 3â— his life or soule is in hades in the world of the Dead Againe it suffiseth for our purpose that Hades and Sheol are often vsed even indifferently for “ Sheoll 〈◊〉 Hades aâ—â—â—sed often 〈◊〉 only Deaâ—â— effect Thanaâ—â—â—mors Death and as being in effect the same or for the state and Condicion of Death or the Power of Death Which also sometime we may likewise conceave of the Latin Inferi which is by the Translatours and other writers vsed for Sheol and Hades though I deny not very daungerously and corruptly in deed First for a Pro. 2â— misheol the Greeke hath ek thanátou from death reckoning Death and Sheol to be all one So in Ecclesiastes b Eccle. Sheol and c veâ—s Hammethim the dead are in effect all one And the very same doeth Esai call d Isa 3â— Shagnare Sheol the gates of sheol which the e Psa 9. â— 107.18 Psalmes and f Iob. 3â— Iob doe call Shagnare maueth the gates of Death In the * Pâ—o. 3â— and 27â— Proverbes he meaneth Death not Hell nor the Grave strictly taken where by an excellencie the greedines of it is noted for being Neuer satisfied For Death generally craâ—eth more then either Hell or the Grave strictly taken do So likewise Abakuk coupleth them togeather as being in effect alone “ Abaâ— Like sheoll and Death it will not be satisfied Thus also it will appeare that that which g Psal â— David reioyseth for the very same in effect h Psal â— Christ heere reioyseth for Only with this difference David reioyseth that God had delivered his soule from death theÌ„ when he was likely to have dyed Christ reioyseth because God would deliuer his soule from the Condicion of Death sheol after he was in it speedily even before his flesh should corrupt This might be evideÌ„tly shewed in infinit places mo but that it is vtterly needles In this
f you obiect but consenteth with Irenaeus before and with others after him as shall appeare 〈◊〉 Innius 〈◊〉 on this chap. 188. who were no Montanists Notwithstanding it is true that somewhere he taketh inferos pro locali determinatione as he speaketh for the peculiar and determinat place of the wicked deceased that is Hell strictly and properly 〈◊〉 4. Thus he doth in that g against Marcion wth you cite pag. 201. Also in that h obiection of certaine Haeretikes whom hee confuteth 〈◊〉 anima 55. not the true Christians as i you k misconceave They argued thus as you do in hoc Christus Jnfiros adiit ne nos adiremus 188. 〈◊〉 title of â—ooke in â—â—â—elius â—â—â—s editioÌ„ Christ therefore went to Hell to the ende that wee might never come there He aunswereth them that it is false that Christe went to Jnferos in that sense that is to Hell for then what difference is there betweene the wicked Heathens and the godly Christians if one the same prison after death were for them both Taking it for a thing generally granted in the church that Christ being dead went onely thither where the godly Dead were and therefore that it were a wicked and Haereticall thing to thinke he went where the Damned were that is into Hell And so he quite overthroweth your opinion togeather with the reason thereof as an opinion whiche if any helde they were ill thought of in those dayes 〈◊〉 99. De â—â—â—es ad lit 〈◊〉 33. Thus also is Augustin well l vnderstood where he denyeth that the Patriarkes were apud inferos in Hell namely the place of the Damned because they were in Abrahaâ—s bosom Which yet b Epist 5â— De civi â— 20.15 elswhere he graunteth vnto that they might be apud inferos in the world of the Dead namely where the Godly dead should be So that thus if you had but distinguished these and other Fathers like words as you ought to haue done there needed no such folly of Contradiction to be imputed vnto them as c Pag. 18â— 200. 204 you doe lay to their charge in this point altogeather vndeservedly Which being well observed you shall see that all the Fathers as Mr Iunius saith both Greeke Latin do take Hades and inferos d Promisâ—â— indiffereÌ„tly for the state of the Dead as wel pertayning to that Soules of the Godly as to the Damned likewise Athanasius also saying e Athanas incar Châ—â—â— vbi tenebatur anima humana in morte ibi exhibuit humanam suam animam Where Humane Soules were held by Death there he brought his humane Soule Meaneth nothing els but that his humane Soule came vnder the same condicion of death as other mens Soules did not that he went to the place of the DaÌ„ned Neiter must he be vnderstood after f Pag. 179 186. 214. your partiall translatioÌ„ but after his owne language the Greek When you say ex Orco out of Hell him selfe saith exhadou out of the power of Death So that g De saluâ—â— vent Châ—â—â— hee saith not a word that Christ was in Hell but onely that his Soule was in Hades in the Dominion of Death as h Ad noâ—â—â— similitudâ— other good mens Soules were also whence he by his victorious returne conquering Death i De salut advent Câ—â—â—stâ— brought vs immortalitie and wrought resurrection for vs. Heere Hades being ennemy and opposit to the Immortalitie and Resurrection of mens persons cannot by any meanes be Hell For Hell agreeth with Immortalitie and Resurrection in Hell shal be immortalitie and resurrection as well as in HeaveÌ„ But it is the common Death and dissolution of our persons which is contrarie to the immortalitie and resurrection of them For as Resurrection is nothing els but a restoring and revniting of the Soule to the Body so the contrarie is nothing els but meerely the dissolution and separation of the Soule from the Body which is Death and not Hell Now in this death saieth Athanasius Christ was held till he spoyled and conquered it thereby giving vs resurrection and immortalitie This can not be Hell out of questioÌ„ Hilarius verily hath this meaning also saying k Hilar. â— Psal 13â— This is the Law of humane necessitie that their bodyes goe down to the Grave their Soules to the world of the Dead ad inferos Which descent the Lorde did not refuse that he might prove him selfe in every point to bee a true man His going to Hell proveth him not to be a true man but his Soul to com vnder the power of Death as well as his body to com to the Grave 〈◊〉 koinoâ—â—â—â—ôpos â—â—â—em morâ—â—â— servaâ—â— that right well proveth him in deed to have bene a true man and wholy in nature like all other men Also this was indeed the Lawe of humane necessitie after the like phrase as a Iustin â—â—â—gi satisfaâ—â—â— forma huâ—â—â— mortis â—â—â—us â—ag 157. â—efore 〈◊〉 Death â—â—es aâ—e vâ—â—â—or the same b Irenaeus and c Tertullian also speake but not to goe to Hell Now this Death properly beloÌ„geth to the Body of Men d as it is left without life Also no lesse properly it beloÌ„geth to the whole Person of men as it is dissolved and destroyed thereby Thirdly by consequence it beloÌ„geth to both the dissolved partes yea even to the immortall Soule though blessed not as it is in blessednes but as it remayneth held from the Body by the force of Death And so all these last named are very excellent places to prove which afterward I shall further shew that all those articles of the Creed He Dyed was Buryed and descended to Hades do indeed signifie but one thing in effect that he was a true man seeing thus it befell him as it doeth all other men by the Law of our Nature that is to Dye And therefore that it was cleane left out in all ancient Creedes where both those other clauses are specified as being no divers point in effect from Dead and Buryed Which Creedes nevertheles are worthily deemed to be absolute and perfit touching Christes workes of Redemption which hee hath wrought for vs. Since perhaps when it came into the Common Creed they signified heereby Christes going to Limbus Which opinion indeed men generally inclined vnto though erroneously for many yeares yet that the Ancients put this Descending to hades meaning Limbus or howsoever into the vulgar Creed distinctly from both the other foresaid clauses I beleue not The contrary is proved afterwardes as anon we shall see But to proceed heere â—â—rys Hom. â—ivit de 〈◊〉 bol Tom. in 1. Cor. Hom. 40. â—â—â—asil in 〈◊〉 48. â—â—â—mbr de 〈◊〉 mort 〈◊〉 10. â—â—â—rom in 〈◊〉 1â— 14 â—â—â—uffin in â—â—â—bol 〈◊〉 413.414 c Chrysostom and d Basill likewise with the rest of the Greeks may be noted how they yeeld Hades to the Soules of the godly and iust men deceased remayning in ioyes Also Ambrose
for his general phrase implying that al the Deceased both good bad were apud inferos vou do so whip him handle him g Your pâ—â— 387. 3â— heere that it seemeth you forget by whom your selfe hath profited and that even he in time past hath ben your Teacher I will not now enter into any defense of Cicero his speach and language will defend it selfe Also that were to leave our maine purpose But it is the lesso strange that you vse Cicero thus for others also have had the like correction at your handes with him â—â—g 310. a Before Torence scaped not And b heere Plato and Socrates and other Greekes have also their partes 〈◊〉 374.378 for their vsing and taking of the Greeke worde Hades so largely as the naturall Etymologie thereof doeth beare But let them defend them selves whether they speake vsuall and right Greeke and Latin or no I will leaue them in that They are eloquent enough they can speake in this case for them selves Only I will take their wordes at their handes evens as c I finde them and so I refer the iudgement of all to the learned and wise Reader 〈◊〉 also all 〈◊〉 forenoted â—â—â—ned Wâ—â—â— have loud 〈◊〉 vsed 〈◊〉 likewise â—â—g 385. Also for that charge against me of d lewd lying and open falsifying of Plato I remit all to the indifferent Reader Yet I can not but smile truly for offended I will not be that Mai. Bilson is so strongly perswaded that c I am of Platoes and Ciceroes religioÌ„ touching Hell â—â—g 370. 〈◊〉 389. Heaven the Gods and wicked Spirites and that I seeke indeed to bring in their fantasticall Hell into our Christian Creed This fantasticall conceit of his let him feed him selfe with it and let him perswade it to whom he can Thus much the sober and indifferent Reader will consider and acknowledge that the Holy Apostles doe teach the Heavenly trueth with the very wordes and Grammar of the Heathen men wherevnto that serveth which is written of them f We every man heare them speake in our owne tounges and languages wherein we were borne 〈◊〉 2.8 11. Then the Apostles surely spake according to the currant speach before their times and in their times and yet thereby never g Canonized the fables and fancies which the nations implyed in their wordes â—â—g 368. Whosoever he be that will say otherwise knoweth not what he saith neither shall any credit or greatnes which he hath get him credit in so saying Yet in a certaine place you most strangly and confidently avouch h That neither with the ancient Maisters of the Greeke tounge which were Poets â—â—g 410. 〈◊〉 1. Treat 〈◊〉 97.98 â—â—to in â—â—done â—m iliad 1 â—â—lutarch â—rallel â—â—nsol ad 〈◊〉 nor with the 70. nor with the Writers of the New Testament nor with the people of that time Hades did ever signifie the world of Souls without any limitation of state or place I thought that those fewe allegations which I brought of * Plato †Homer and Plutarch for the Greeke and of Latins for the Latin would haue suffised to cause you not to deny so cleere and manifest a trueth which heere you denie even against your owne knowledge as after shall appeare Wherfore to demonstrat this point a litle further to you and to al men if any yet doe believe this your assertion which is most vntrue I will not thinke it to much to note some more places out of the Heathen authentike Greekes for that is the principall controversie that Hades with theÌ„ did signifie the World of Soules with out any limitation in the very word it self either of state or place But as all men know that by reason of Circumstances it often signifieth with theÌ„ Hell determinatly Note so by reason of circuÌ„stances also it signifieth with them many times determinatly the HabitatioÌ„ of the Soules of good men in ioyes and pleasures which was to them as their Heaven And for this I will only put you in minde of some places which you know well enough already First note that common epithet or title of Hades Hades tâ—â— worlde Soules 〈◊〉 the Auther Greeks a Lycopâ—â— Hades pandokeus or pandocheus The vnseene worlde or state of Death that receaveth all both good and bad b Hom. 〈◊〉 15. Heâ— in Theâ—â— Others imagin Hades a God or mighty power power of Death do cal him eneroisin kataphthimenoisin anassôn Ruler not of Hell only but of all that ' Dy. And therefore to this place com not the wicked and damned onely but the noblest and best also as Achilles saith being dead and being in Hades c Hom. 〈◊〉 λ. Aidós de katélthemen éntha te nékroi Hither into hades all we that are dead do come This d Plato Gorgiaâ— Plutarcâ— Consolâ— Apolloâ— Plato and Plutarch do acknowledge in that place which e Pa. 37â— you cite at large togeather with a number mo both of the Poëts Philosophers And this also it is that Homer shewing how Iupiter cast down his rebellious Angels into Hell Tártaron with them the proper place of the Damned hee describeth it to be so much beneath Hades the place of the other Dead f Hom. hoson ouranos esti apo gaies as heaven is from the earth So in regard of this it is that g Sophoâ— Aiant another maketh it to be much better to be in hades as it is the common place and condicion of the dead not Hell then to be sicke vnrecoverably kreissôn aida keuthôn e nosôn mátan And so Plutarch maketh Hades not Hel but the place of the Dead or the stare of the dead in generall to be a soveraigne comfort to the afflicted miserable in this world h Plutarcâ— swering Aeschyâ— O Thanate paian iatros molois Limen gar ontôs aidas an' aian Aiden d'echôn boethon ou tremo skias Lastly that which i Pag. 37â— you bring of Orpheus describing the true God that he is King both of the Vnseene world aithéros ed'aïdou and also of this present visible worlde ponton gaiéste tyrannos confirmeth all that is before said For aither aides heere is to be construed togeather not separatly and so he signifieth thereby that the true God indeed is Lord and King not onely over this whole Visible world which he vnderstandeth by the Sea and Land but also over the whole Invisible world or ayer that is over all the Dead both good and bad I marvaile therefore very much what you meane to speake so plainly contrary to the truth and to your owne knowledge that Hades did never signifie the world of Soules without any limitation of state or place no not with the ancient Maisters of the Greeke toung which were the Poets The rather this your speach is directly against your knowledge because you expresly collect and confesse the contrary that is the same which I do â—ag 403. thus you say a Hades
before the Apostles time extended to good and bad pag. 371. And within Plutoes kingdom vnder the earth which they call Hades as well the places and pleasures for the Good â—ag 379. â—â—â—d in Hoâ—â—r Virgil â—istophanes â—â—pides and â—â—ers you shal the World â—he Dead â—he world of â—â—es be they 〈◊〉 or bad to â—â—in Plutoes â—â—gdo which Greekâ—â—â—ts call â—â—les as the prisons and punishmentes for the bad are in their conceit prepared and setled Againe b Hades with them was the Ruler or place of Soules were they in rest or paine Where you make a strange answer that Christian Religion will assure that this place must needes be Hell What That place where some good mens soules deceased are in rest Is this Hell Yea is it Hell in Christian Religion Who then henceforth will care for Hell if some soules haue rest and pleasures in Hell But you say also that those Heathen Greekes did thinke that this place of Soules was c vnder the Earth It is true they thought so indeed and it was their error as also the very same was the Christian Fathers errour likewise Which they drew certainly from their acquaintance with those Heathens 〈◊〉 379.381 〈◊〉 Hades it â—â—â—fe imporâ—â—â—g no such â—â—â—ng but no where at all from the Scriptures Yet none of these thought this place to be very Hell where soules were in rest There is small rest and few pleasures in Hell But these Heathens d vnderstood Hades chiefly for Pluto the Ruler of this place vnder the earth 〈◊〉 371.374 So that though the place were also called Hades yet this was but secondarily I answer This is questionles vtterly vntrue For rather the Place or the Estate of the Dead was first originally called Hades The God thereof whom afterward they idolatrously imagined they did conceave secondarily in respect of the place or thing Which beside the evidence of the matter I am perswaded that Plato Plutarch do shew also plaine enough even heere where you cite them Howsoever this is not maternal nor to any purpose whether the place and state were with theÌ„ first and chieflie called Hades or whether the fayned Power of death and Ruler of the Dead as they imagined were first and principally so called This is certaine that this Power or Ruler which they conceaved to be over the Dead as they like Idolators made it a God so their meaning was to esteeme him as the God of the Dead in Generall and his state and kingdome to be the c Which â—â—ing a priâ—â—â—pall pomâ—â—â— our quaâ—â—â— is fully gâ—â—â—ted by yâ—â—â— before HabitatioÌ„ of the Dead in generall not of the wicked only in Hel but of the good also in their Elysian happines which was to them in their estimation and reckoning that which Heaven indeede is to vs. But “ Pag. 39 you say there is no one place in truth common to all soules departed this life but som are in Hel and som in Heaven I doubt not but the blessed in Heaven the Damned in Hell are both in coÌ„dition situation seperated a funder exceeding far Yet nevertheles as they are somwhere w th in the coÌ„passe of the created world so they are in a coÌ„mon place opposiâ— indeed to this visible earth world of the living but coÌ„mon to al the Dead namely in this only respect as they are Dead departed hence are vnseene vtterly exempted froÌ„ all mutual medling togither with vs that do live Moreover we stande not so much on this that by Hades must be vnderstood any one place coÌ„mon to all the Dead but the State and condition of death among the Dead or the Power and Dominion of Death which very aptly also it serveth for and fitteth our purpose aswell as to vnderstand there by a common place But indeed all this I doubt not Hades very well may signifie when it is referred to men according to the circumstances of the authour where it is read But this Hades you say in those Heathen authors “ Pag. 3â—â— 378 41â— is the very Divell himselfe Therefore his Kingdome must bee needes nothing but Hell I answer The Heathen in their conceit thought him not to be a Divell but a * Vâ—z that 〈◊〉 or of dâ—â—â— which by 〈◊〉 is somâ— signifieâ— God even the God and Ruler over all the Dead and so they worshipped this foule Idoll Therefore his whole kingdome region they reckoned to be the World of the Dead or Dominion of Death which also they called Hades It may be f Pag. 37â— Porphyrie meaneth that they held him to bee Lorde and Ruler over Hell and all the wicked Spirits and Divells therein yet he saith not but that Hades or Pluto was thought by them to have power over all the Dead his rage against men and the feare that men had of him signified the vnmercifulnes of Death sparing none and how it is to the nature of all men a thing most terrible So that they esteemed a part indeed of his Dominion to be Hell peculiarly but a part also to be the Region of the Happy which was their Heaven But you say this was the Divell Yea even as the rest of their Gods were also very Divells indeed nothing els So was their Highest Jupiter and so was Apollo and so was Mercury and all the rest of the Goddes and Goddesses which their impiety adored They were indeede none other then very Divels illuding the vanity of men And thus I grant was their Hades or Pluto likewise Howbeit in their estimation he was not properly the Divell but a Power or Ruler over the Dead both good and bad and his Kingdom the Dominion and world of the Dead both good and bad Pag. 171. But a you remit Poets and Pagans vsing this word to the alleagers Yet Poets Pagans are the authentike maisters for Grammar both Greek Latin Yea they were yours I doubt not in time past Before pag. â—70 Austin as we saw alloweth the Etymologie and naturall propertie of hades to be regarded Yea all learned men in all ages condemne this your reiecting of Pagans and Poets for the Grammaticall vse of wordes whom still they do regard and follow in this respect But heere let vs observe how the holy Apostles doe teach the truths of the Gospell with the very wordes and language of the Heathens â—bservations There are in this point 3. or 4. thinges that must bee well observed and remembred 1. The Apostles doe speake of the mysteries of true Religion with the Heathens words as I said yet so as that when the Heathens wordes do imply some errour with truth then in other expresse places they plentifully refute al their errours implyed in their wordes Whereby it comes to passe that all the proportion of truth which the Heathen signified by them is yet fully and rightly signified still in the Apostles vse of them but nothing further that is none of the
do nor vnderstand in them any of their fancyes and errors which by their doctrine otherwise they refute nevertheles they may and do vnderstand the generall truth signified in them whatsoever the Heathens vsed by them to signifie and imply And thus is our worde in controversy Hades cleered But to cleere the rest also of those which b Pag. 36â— you obiect Sec we are to observe that the Apostles transfer the Heathens Civill words many times to their Ecclesiasticall vse namely keeping yet still the proportion of their former sense As in these Apostle Bishop Deacon Gospell Law Sinne Repenâ—ance Hope Conscience Concupisence c. Which change is small and easy sith the words have a iust proportion still togeather both in Civill and Ecclesiasticall vse Onely if any difference or oddes be it is expresly vttered in some part of the Apostles doctrine besides There is no such cause nor matter of difference to be found in Hades Third The Apostles do vse some wordes kat ' éxochen by an excellencie yet in no point altering the native vse or property of them â—â—â—a all the 〈◊〉 before â—â—â—med or â—â—â—t oâ— them 〈◊〉 â—e conâ—â—â—ed also â—â—â—er this â—â—â—e â—ag 403. a Thus Scripture is vsed commonly for the Word of God only Diábolos for the Divell although sometimes other writings are called also Scripture and other Accusers and slanderers Diaboloi But neither hath this consideration any place in Hades that in Scripture it should signifie chiefly Hell much lesse only Which thing b you avouch Lastly Som think the Apostles altered the worde Faith from the Passive sense of it importing Faithfulnes and honestie as the Heathens commonly vsed it to the Active sense which is True beliefe or Trust vsed in the Scriptures which you also obiect But I suppose the Apostles tooke this Active sense of the word Faith froÌ„ the Old Testament meerely translating the Hebrue into Greeke For I see not what difference at all there is betweene c Pistis â—â—â—om 1.17 â—â—â—bac 2.4 and d Emunah whereby the Iewes signified Faith to salvation Which is reason enough for this vse thereof in Greeke by the Apostles namely if it bee a Hebraisme though it bee not very suteable to the Heathens vse thereof The like I iudge of Elder Law Sinne c. But Hadès for Hell hath no like reason Further I think even the Heathens have vsed this word Faith sometime Actively as the Gospell vsually hath it likewise the Gospel abhorreth not altogeather the Passive vse of it for Faithfulnes Lastly if it were so that the Apostles did follow no other reason but meerely transferred that word from the Civill passive to the Ecclesiasticall active vse we say on necessity they might do it For having some Spirituall doctrine to deliver and the ordinary speach wanting some fit word for the same then they might yea of necessity they were forced to take some word neerest in nature and sense to their purpose so they might give to that word a peculiar Ecclesiasticall vse further then anciently it had But Hades for Hell hath no help by this reason they tooke the word Gehenna from the Hebrewes and vsed it properly for Hell Therefore they need not alter hades for that purpose for which they had another proper word It is manefest then that the Apostles stil kept the proportion of the sense in all their words translated from the common and vsuall speach of the Heathen so far as any reason of truth might be alike in both so they spake indeed still the tounge and language of the Nations and therefore Hades with the Apostles can not be properly Hell as even with Heathens also properly it was never I suppose yet you will say The Fathers take Hades for Hell I answered a Pa. 1 before how they sometime take it determinatly and strictly so they signifie Hell by it Somtime they take it largely generally according to the Ancient Heathens vse and so they signifie by it nothing but the generall state of Death pertayning alike both to good and bad deceased as I have declared Thus you get nothing by them albeit sometime theâ— restraine the worde Hades more then they ought to restraine it Heere also were place to have added somwhat for iustifying that I said The Fathers do alter the ancient true vse of som words both Greeke and Latin from whom in controversies we ought to appeale to their authentike vse in Scripture and Classicall authors But because b Pag. 3â— you send me about ChirotonÃa to another place I am content to examine what you have there to the contrary Which seeing it draweth me into further matter therevnto appertaining I will differre for this time Hitherto we have tryed the nature and vse of Hades and have found it to be not properly Hell as c Pag. 1â— 171. 40 you avouch No not when it is applyed to soules of men deceased And therefore also that it can not be so vnderstood in Act. 2.27 where it is applyed to Christs Soule after he was dead Which yet is the only place that you have to pretend How thâ—â— in Act. â— may siâ—â—â— and trâ—â—â— vndersâ—â—â— Now something more you bring for your purpose from the Circumstances of this Text which we must consider But first let vs simply and plainly vnderstaÌ„d the same according to our former true declaration of the nature and vse of Hades Where the text is Thou wilt not leaue my Soule in Hades or to Hades we may simply take Hades for the invisible state or place of the deceased And so supplying the defect of a word which must be vnderstood thus we may say eis ton topon or chôran hadou in the place or region of the invisible state or b Aithér dou Or before pâ—â—â— 173.17 World of the Deceased Otherwise we may take it simply for Deaths force strength and power supplying also the same words eis ton topon or ten chôran hadou in that place where the power and strength of Death prevaileth and holdeth the deceased Soules from their Bodyes This is the World of the Dead implying nothing ells but ap estate opposit to our Visible estate in this world Thus may hades be fuly taken sith I have largely proved before how Hades Thanatoâ— Death are in effect all one and may both be applyed even to iust mens Soules deceased but hades more easily naturally Last of all we may take hades heere by a Prosopopoea conceaving it to be as it were som Person of vnresistable power taking away withholding from hence al mens Souls departed Howbeit this power was controlled and loosed by God in Christes Resurrection And then we may construe it thus eis ten chóran topon or oikian Hadou in the place region or habitation of this mighty power Or eis to kratos exousian dynamin or epikratian tou Hadou to the strength power or dominion of this Destroyer of life Thus howsoever we take it though
this last way is not the vnlikelyest Hades heere signifieth in effect nothing els but Death that Christs Soul departed this life was held therein but could not be holden fast â—â—g 166. You obiect c We must not make a Figurative sense but where manefest need is Heere is no need of a figurative sense Therefore heere ought to be no Figure supposed I answer First wee grant your Conclusion whether of the 2. former wayes soever that we take hades so there is simply no Figure at all therein Sec Then your own sense of Hell in this place is cleane overthrown by your selfe For whensoever hades and sheol do signifie Hell it is indeed by a Figure namely Synékdoche where the Whole is set for a part Which I have proved at large before â—â—re pag. particularly by d Tremellius a sufficient man for his Hebrue skill Wherefore by this reason Hell cannot possibly be meant heere if no Figure be admitted Third it seemeth convenient and also likely to take hades heere by a Prosopopoea after our 3. sense before noted Which kind of Figure supposeth as it were a Person of that thing which otherwise a word properly signifieth So that by this figure nothing of the wordes native signification is diminished Thus our word hades is vsed in the Corinthians O Hades where is thy victory Also as it may seeme in the Revelation Death Hades were cast into Hell â—â—ther as pa. 17â— Thus then it is nothing but emphatically signifying the power of Death Fourth Admit that hades and sheol did properly signifie Hell as we see they do not Likewise that sometime they signifie only the Grave which also you acknowledg it is true when it is applyed to a dead Body Againe admit that nephesh by a Figure may signifie the whole Person yea e the dead Body somtimes 〈◊〉 doth 〈◊〉 21.1 〈◊〉 2â— 4 Then I affirme that heere in this place of necessity there ought to be vnderstood a Figurative sense Heere is plainly most necessary cause For take them thus literally as you doe and they impugne the groundes of faith and charitie Which f Pag 1â— you grant that rightly is sufficient to cause a Figurative sense in Scripture But how do they impugne faith or charity being taken as you take them Verily thus Your sense implyeth by the way and consequently Points in Assertion â—â—â—trary to â—â—â—coÌ„mon â—â—oâ— Faith 〈◊〉 charity that a good and sinles man yea the best that ever was worthy of Paradise and the highest Heavens yet after death did go to Hell And further that being in Heaven yet he stayed not there as you say but immediatly came out againe to go into Hell Againe that a Humane soule being in the depth of Hell yet should feele no paines and that being locally in hell it should com out thence also What can be more against the generall rules of the Scripture then these things Yea how doth this impugne our generall charity towards all the iust when they dy Besides many other disproportions and vnreasonable inconveniences following withall as anon we shall further see Wherefore if by any meames possibly a Figure may be heere admitted certainly it must be so for these most necessary causes last rehearsed The rather seeing no other text any where insinuateth any such peculiar matter in Christ that he should differ in these points from all good men els as you do vrge But you say The Cirâ—â—stances 〈◊〉 against yâ—â— the circumstances heere doe prove that the word must be Hell properly taken That I would faine see What are these circumstances First this place sheweth * Pag. 1â— a special prerogative verified in none but in Christ I deny it heere is no such prerogative mentioned Except this that whereas some other men after death have returned to life againe it was not by their owne power as Christs ResurrectioÌ„ was Againe God in his revealed wil having signified by his Prophet long before that he should be restored speedily to life againe thus it was simply impossible that Christ should be holden fast by the power of Death although it had got hold of him And so indeed he had a prerogative before all men ells which also is heere shewed vs but no other prerogative in the world neither heere nor any where els caÌ„ be gathered touching his returne from Hell You adde No flesh dead was ever free from corruption but only Christes What then Ergo his Soule was in Hell Or ells why bring you such needles and impertinent matter Besides I iudge that not to be true Were not a Pag. 1â— some being dead raised to life againe before their flesh putrified But nonâ— you say in the sepulchre And what then How will this inferre or prove that so none but Christs Soul was ever supported in Hel or that it was ever there These are simple reasons for so great a conclusion Then you say Jf by Hell we vnderstand Paradise it was no privilege to be there not forsaken but rather a childish absurdity to thinke any Soule might be there forsaken It is a strange absurdity still to abuse your reader calling this word Hel â—â—tio prinâ—◠〈◊〉 which indeed is nothing but Death in effect the Power of death or the condition and state of death Againe to presume that wee take it for Paradise or Heaven or Hell at any time when we referre it allwayes to the generall state of the Dead and no further immediatly Now in this Christ had cause to reioyce that neither his Soule nor Body was left but so soone raysed vp to perfit life againe and so sitted to a full receaving of glory which within few dayes after he had Also besides this cause his deliverance from the condition of death he had an other inestimable cause to reioyce that he was raised to life againe namely that he might fulfill his whole work for our Salvation which before his Resurrection Ascension c he could not accomplish â—â—g 170. Further b you obiect that Peter maketh mention that the sorrows of death were broken that they should not hold Christ nor hinder him from rising againe But there were none such in the Grave none in Paradise Therfore in Hel Christs Soule was whence he was delivered when he rose againe I denie vtterly this sequele Because the text saith not that there were any present sorrowes in Hades where Christ was Heere is not a word to any such purpose 〈◊〉 2.24 What saith the text God raised him vp loosing the sorrowes of Death because it was impossible for him to bee holden fast of it Wil you coÌ„clude froÌ„ hence Ergo there were present sorrows in that place where Christ was There is no strength in this reason The Apostle signifieth heere 2. or 3. things 1. That God loosed Death froÌ„ him wherein hee was held but could not be holden fast 2. That this Death had bene a most sorrowfull painfull Death
which indeed he tasted to the full vpoÌ„ the Crosse As this Hebraisme the sorrowes of Death for a sorrowfull Death may emphatically signifie Also he may set these 2. the sorrowes of Death thus togeather as the Cause and the Effect signifying that by the violence of sorrowes and bitter paines which he suffered Death came vnto him tooke hold of him but it could not hold him fast because God himselfe loosed and dissolved it Thus then it can not follow by the text that there were sorrows now in hades where Christ was Further the very text implyeth that Christ was holden in this which was loosed from him I say he was holden but not a Kraâ—â— to bâ—â— fast â—â—enâ—â—â—â—ctoriâ—â— holdâ—â— holden fast Now he was not holden in sorrows for then he could not but have felt them after death which you will not affirme It was therefore Death which came by sorrows whereof he was holdeÌ„ but not held fast Againe it appeareth that Christ was in that which was loosed and rid from him Thou wilt not b enâ—aâ—sai leave my soule in hades I say he was now in the same wherein he was not left nor forsaken But he was in no sorrows at all now for then I think he should have †By 〈◊〉 Sorrowâ—â— felt of 〈◊〉 who aâ—â— them felt them he was in death and in the power thereof Therefore it was Death and the power thereof which was loosed at Christes resurrection not any present sorrowes and paines Neither is it the nature of Sorrowes to hold and hinder froÌ„ ResurrectioÌ„ but it is the strength of Death which doth that Thus c Pag. 1â— your collection out of Austin is against the true and plaine meaning of the text where you say that the sorrowes of death or hel were brokeÌ„ before Christ so he was never in theÌ„ but as the snares of hunters are broken ne teneant non quia tenuerunt before “ You 〈◊〉 the veâ—â— pa. 17â—â—â—ting â—hâ—â— it they tooke hold not after they had taken hold This is meerely imagined the text plainly meaneth an other loosing and dissolving namely of the power of Death as I said vnder the which Christs manhood even the Body also aswell as the Soule was now for a while held but not victoriously holden fast when Gods will was that he should rise againe Yet you mightily vrge how that it is d Pag. 1â—â— 196. Austins collection from this text I perceave your argument is from Austin and not from Peter as e Pag. 13â— 170. you pretend When you cite Scripture it is enough belike if any learned man do collect and frame an opinion from the text whether right or wrong You may easily see by that before that this collection of Austin hath no ground nor reason in the text but is indeed disproved by it Which may the sooner be conceaved if we note how he missed in his Translation of these words Thus he readeth solutis doloribus inferni August 〈◊〉 99. quia impossible erat teneri eum in illis whom God raised vp loosing the sorrows of hell because it was impossible that he should be held in them But the text hath Loosing the sorrowes of f Thanátâ—â— not Hadâ—â— which he 〈◊〉 staketh foâ— Hell death seeing it was impossible that he should be g holden fast or strongly holden h of it â—â—teisthai 〈◊〉 is more 〈◊〉 Austins â—â—ri to bee â—â—ply holdeÌ„â—â—â—p ' aâ—tou 〈◊〉 illis in 〈◊〉 sorrows 〈◊〉 hath it Thus it seemeth Austin looked not to the originall which he ought to have don specially nowe inquiring into and sifting out an obscure point of Christian faith as it appeareth that heere Austin doth In no wise ought he to have leaned to a faulty Translation as this is which he followeth Seeing therefore hee fayled in expressing the text no marvaile if his Collection froÌ„ it were wide Wherein also he is no where resolut nor perswaded indeed therfore a weak stay is he alone for our faith to rest on in this article Nay in the winding vp of that Epistle his godly modesty is registred for example to you and all Christian Ministers He gives vs good leave to refuse his collection and opinion heere so that we bring better reason Thus he saith Hec expositio verborum Petri cui displicet c. Now whether we bring reason to dissent from Austin heerein or no I referre it not to you to iudge who are to partiall but to every indifferent learned reader The rather for that mo Circumstances of this text doe make also affirmatively for vs. 〈◊〉 2.29 First a Peter plainly granteth all this matter of David aswell as of Christ except this that David was left therein even till this day as Christ was not But David was never in Hel. Therefore neither Christ was ever there whose figure David was Sec If it be altogeather heere from the purpose of Peter to speake to the ignorant and vnbeleeving Iewes of Christs Souls being in hell then there is no reason to take these wordes hades and sheol heere for hell But by the whole b 〈◊〉 â—2 Text it is evident Peter had no reason nor purpose to speak to the Iewes of Christs Souls being in hell Therefore I see not how hades sheol if they but might signifie otherwise can heere signifie hell His whole and direct purpose was to shew them of Christs Soules departure out of this world and of his Body lying dead in the grave as is the maner of other men when they dy and that he was from thence mightily c raysed vp againe to life 〈◊〉 31. more then other men were or can be Heere to speake to them of his Soules being in hell what were there in it 1. They being as I said ignorant vnbeleeving and stubborne 2. The thing being invisible strange and vncouth not subiect to sense and without all example of the like in the whole Law namely no Figure foreshaddowing any such matter to be fulfilled in him 3. He intending only in all this speach to shew them that this Iesus whom they had slaine was not now dead but risen againe why should he speake heere of hell Christes being there made nothing the more to shew his Resurrection which was the * ver â—â— only scope of his speach But being so disproportioned with then former faith and vnderstanding it would rather hinder then further them to the Christian faith Both these CircumstaÌ„ces I noted before but I see no answer to them Wherefore I hope they with the rest of my assertions heerein are firme and good Thus it appeareth that hades doth not every where signifie a Pa. 17â— 403. Hell in the New Testament We have seene that it hath no such meaning in the Actes which yet is the only Scripture whereon you build Alas how litle a shew serveth your turne when affection leadeth you This were sufficient to end this Argument but yet it shal be
that is the DominioÌ„ or power of Death were cast into Hell â—â—v 20.14 I said it was absurd to say Hell was cast into Hell You answer it is more absurd to say the world of Soules was cast into Hell Where you doe but dally and play with words â—t â— e woâ—â—â—e â—e Deaâ— Aâ—â—ally For I vse not that terme * the world of soules though it may be named sometime in a good sense Which you will by no meanes conceave only you delight much to sport your sâ—lfe with it Our answer theÌ„ is this There is no absurditie to say that at the last day when the * last enemy shal be destroyed then Death â—â—â—ore pag. 2. and the power of Death or the Kingdome and Dominion of Death shal be cast into Hel that is eternally dâ—stâ—oyâ—d abâ—â—ished shall râ—turn to the Divell whâ—â—â— they came To say many soâ—t that theÌ„ Hell phalbe cast into Hell souÌ„deth sensâ—les in my â—atâ—s Although you meane the Contayning to bâ— put for the Contayned Hâ—ll for the Divels of Hel and that the Divels shalbâ— theÌ„ cast into hâ—l fire Yea although one Andreas â—eda vnderstand it so likewise For neither you nor they it â—â—â—meth do cosidâ—r that this place assigneth them to Hell then at the last day who yet are not in Hell but shal be then cast into Hell â—nd destroyed But the Divels are a 2 Pet. 2. Iâ—d 6. in Hell already reserved in eâ—â—rlasting châ—mes of darknes Therefore the Divels cannot be vndâ—â—stood heere by Hadâ—s that they shal be then cast into Hel seeing â—hey are already cast in to Hell for ever Death and the Power thereof being the last enemie that shal be dâ—stroyed is not yet but shal be indeed at the last day aboliâ—hed swallowed vp of Hell Lastly â—eere is shewed the most general vniversall rendring vp of all the â—ead whatsoever to iudgment But Hel plainly hath not all the Dead Death the world of the Dead or thâ— Dominion of Death have all Therefore Dâ—ath Hades heere do not signifie properly the Divâ—ll Hell but this only that Death and the vniversall Dominion or power of Death yeelded vp to iudgment al the Dead both great smal both good and bad to be iudged according to their workes Thus it is evident and cleere that Hades no where in the â—ew Testament doth signifie properly Hel as you say it doth Thus also that is concluded fully and perfitly which my 2. Reason †Pag. 15 before affirmed that you have not one place at all in the Scripture to prove that Christs Soule was in Hell b Act. â— 2 One place only you have stood vpon that Christs Soule was in Hades but that helpeth you nothing at all as we have seene You must prove indeed that Chriâ—ts Soule was in Gehenna if you would perswade any man of knowledg which you shal never do Gehenna in the New Testament is properly Hell but Hades is never properly so taken as I hope it is sufficiently before proved Therefore the Concluâ—ion is good To thinke that Christes Soule was ever in Hell is a thing that ought to be vâ—terly denyed Yet heere we must consider a maine obiection of yours â—ven those words of our common Creed Touching Câ—â—â—◠〈◊〉 which vsually in English wâ— vtter thus He descended into Hell originally 〈◊〉 is He descended into Hades And in truth this is all that you have to allâ—age for your opinion â—swere But I answer 2. wayes First Admitting then Denying the authority of thâ—se words in our Comon Creâ—d 1. Admitting the authority of these words yet Not as sufficient not as Aposâ—â—hâ—all but such as may be fâ—oÌ„ godly and sound Christians wâ— affirme that we can well vnderstand them according to the Scriptures vse of Hades rightly viz that Christes whole humane Person came vnder the power and Dominion of Death or that he dâ—caying in this world * falling down from that state of life wherein a while he flourished went absolâ—tly from hence into the world of the Dead 〈◊〉 before 〈◊〉 153. according to the law of nature which all other men follow likewise when they dâ— How this sense doth fully agree also with the mindes of the ancient Fathers generally we have at large dâ—clared c before Pag. 166. Pag. 1â—4 But this serveth not your turne therefore you will needes inioyne vs d 3. Rules to be exactly and prâ—câ—sâ—ly kept in the expounding of these words namely 1. Distinction of matter 2. Consequence of order 3. Propriety of words You must know that we can be no more strict Note nor more religious in observing the Ciâ—cuÌ„stances of matter order even in the holy Scriptures themselves then you inioyne heere to be observed in these words of men Might not these godly men think you misse in som such Circumstance or light point although the Scripture can not Or if they might why impose you such strictnes on our consciences about mens words as if heere were no possibility of any the least missing or imperfection How beit we admit your 3. Rules also 3. Rules and will observe them sufficiently First these words He descended to Hades may very well expresse a Distinction of matter differing from all the words heere besides They naturally and properly signifie as before we shewed that Christ came to vtter decay in this world and being taken hence was gathered in both partes of his Manhood dissolved wholy intirely to those who were departed before him into another world Or ells thus that he came vnder the full power e before Pag. 192. Dominion of Death Now either of these differeth verily from meere and simple Death â—vian â—â—â—â—â—â—ce â—eaâ—h For to Dy propeâ—ly is nothing els but the going a sunder of the Soule from the Body That other is to be wholy razed out from the presence and sight of this world also a remayning vnder the possession and strength of Death and a going to the society of them in another world g. 192. These indeed are f differing points and degrees in Death albeit in effect generally they bee all one with Death that is they be necessaâ—ily consequent alwayes conioyned vnto Death Againe if those wordes in the Creed were only but a more emphaticall phrase of through and perfit Dying and Departing hence if there were in them no further DistinctioÌ„ of matter then so yet this were enough to distinguish them froÌ„ the other words Dead and Buryed This is cause enough especially in the Ancient times when men suppose this Creed was framed when Christs Humanity and naturall Death was by al meanes subtilly and violently oppugned after a short worde signifying his Death and Buriall yet for more emphasis sake and for further Viging the same to addâ— this other short familiar phrase importing no other maine matter then was before noted but only a more effectuall and more absolut signification
even Ruffinus in his exposition of the Creed alleageth this article and he alloweth the doctrine thereof I answere He alleageth truly these wordes Descendit ad inferna but not out of any example of the Apostles Creed yea he expresly denieth it to be therein any where at that time as before we shewed Only it being his owne and the common opinion then hee groundeth it vpon other reasons namely certaine misâ—aken scriptures yet such as he was content to like of and so holdeth indeed that Christ went downe to Infernum that is to Limbus Patrum as an opinion then common among men and worthy as he thought to be beleeued and to be applyed to this place of the Creed touching the Death of Christ â—asin in â—mb Caâ—h 4. although as yet no such matter was contayned in the common Creed Erasmus sayeth The Fathers would not be so rash as to put it into the articles of their Creed seeing their opinions heereabout were so varying and doubtfull Now this you know was all mistaken wrongfully gathered from the Scriptures as badly applyed to the Creed nothing els indeed but the common error of those tymes Yet then hitherto all this is farre from iustifying your opinion nerâ—â—er may you alleage the Creed for your warrant Where note also that Ruffinus heere vnderstandeth the very matter it self precisely signified by these words Descendit ad inferna to be immediatly but this that He dyed like other good men and was buried For hee saith Vis verbâ—â—adem videtur esse in eo quod Sepultus dicitur The effect of this phrase He descended to Infernum seemeth to be all one and the same with this He was Buried And afterwarde going abâ—ut to prove by the Scripture that Christ descended to JnfernuÌ„ he sheweth that hee meaneth his death heereby and his buriall Quod in infernum descendit evidenter praenuÌ„tiatur in Psalmis vbi dicit Et in pulverem mortis deduxisti me Et iterum Quae vtâ—litas in sanguine meo dum descendo in Corruptionem And before vpon those wordes He was Crucified vnder Pon. Pilate and descended to infernum hâ— giveth this sense among other wordes Divina natura in mortem per carnem descendit The Divine nature humbled it selfe eveÌ„ vnto Death in respect of the flesh Howsoever then he thinketh consequently that Christ descending to infernuÌ„ did after Death goe to a place beneath vnto the godly Soules departed before then set them free from thence and caried them with him yet it appeareth that immediatly by this phrase and properly he meant no more but that he Dyed and was Buâ—ied all the rest was consequent as an effect after this according as he and most others of the Ancients did think Lastly heer we see that Ruffinus extendeth this his Descending to the Divine nature but he meaneth it improperly and in a certaine sorte according to that also in the Philippains a Phil. 〈◊〉 He being in the forme of God b Verse humbled himselfe became obedient vnto death So that properly he meaneth it of the very death of his Manhood and nothing els Which is our very minde and iudgment agreeing also generally with the Fathers heerein c Pa. 162 before rehearsed But Ignatius “ Pag. 1 you thinke †is clearely yours likewise one d Pag 17 Thaddaeus by Eusebius report one of the 70. Disciples which the Evangelist Luke speakes of also e Pag 41 Athanasius Creed Ignatius saying Christ descended to Hades alone but rose again with many Ignaâ—â—us meaneth evidently his Buriall and going downe into his Grave as you acknowledge that f Pag. 14. Hades many times may well signifie Which is the plainer to be his meaning for as much as he noteth his Buryall heere in no other wordes besides And sure he alludeth to that in Mathew g Math 27 53. The Graves did open and many bodyes of the Saintes which slept arose And came out of the Graves after his Resurrection and went into the holy City and appeared to many This is touching the Resurrection of their bodyes out of their Graves not of their Soules ansing vp from Hell Neither in Ignatius is there any shew of reason that he meant Hades for Hell He may meane I grant that which is in effect all one the restoring of their whole Persons taken away hence by Death or their comming from vnder the Dominion and power of Death which indeed is according to the proper largenes of this word Also that Christ katélthe came vnder the same Not that he went locally downeward except in his Buriall but touching his whole manhood that hee was humbled and abased even vnder the Dominion and strength of Death And thus it is true that h As Ruffiâ—â— also vndâ—â— stood â—t 〈◊〉 200. Christ by his Death including also togeather his Buriall came downe or Descended But only this you vrge and stand vpon for your claime to Ignatius because it is said He brake downe the wall or stop which was never brokeÌ„ before Where you may know that the meaning is this The power of the Grave or the strength and force of Death was now by Christes Death Resurrection vtterly overcome and dissolved which remayned in deed from the beginning of the world till Christes death as a mighty Wall not broken downe But now the vertue of his death and resurrection brake it cleane downe for ever So that heereby Christ is taught to be as the Apostle also to like effect speaketh the first fruites of the Dead Pag. 179. But you say a Many rose from the dead before Christ and therefore that partition was often broken by others before him I aunswer Though some being dead did rise to life againe before Christes Resurrection as touching the time yet the vertue and power of Christes resurrectioÌ„ was before them by which only and meerely they rose againe Neither yet was ResurrectioÌ„ to all the Dead foorth with performed by the Resurrection of Christ neuertheles throughly purchased it was eveÌ„ then and by the only power and vertue thereof is shal be performed to all in due time So that thus Christ alone brake that wall and stop and absolutly he hath broken it downe which no man before him nor besides him ever brake The like vnto this is your Thaddaeus sentence â—â—â—ddaeus â—â—â—â—nasius also Athanasius in his Creed Whom the rather thus I vnderstand as it seemeth most reasonably and necessarily because they expresse neither his Death nor his Buriall at all in any other wordes save these He descended to Hades Therefore surely this is it which heere they meane by his descending to Hades and this is all that they meane therein that he was brought vnder the dominion of death and was Buryed â—â—escending â—â—plied to â—â—â—â—ts Soule 〈◊〉 Death â—ever fouÌ„d â—â—cripture in anie â—â—cient â—â—ed Consdering also that * no Ancient Creed in the world hath all these 3. divers and
there till his Resurrection Which our Synod since very profitably hath overskipped and suppressed First then your selfe granteth that our later Synod corrected the former about this matter which in my wordes you cannot indure to heare 2. You charge these words of K. Edw. Synod with 2. pointes which are not in them 1. That it saith how the Spirits of the iust were in Hell and that Christ descending thither stayed there till his resurrection In me you would make this a great matter so to misreport the wordes of a Synod which in deed saith nothing heereof 3. It is well that you * renounce that of Peter 〈◊〉 22. â—â— 3.19 by Austins direction as making not at all for any locall being of Christ in Hell But yet heerein your selfe openly refuseth the minde of all your predecessors yea of our later Synod if they believed as you vrge that they did For if they liked Christs locall being in Hel they misliked not the applying of that in Peter therevnto as by Mai. Nowells Catechisme may appear Neither misliked they his tarying there till his resurrectioÌ„ which Austin also holdeth as firmely as that he was there All which you vtterly disclaime as wel as I. Why then do you aggravat my differing from them and see not your owne 4. That our English Cleaâ—gie generally did or doe beleeve Christes locall descent into Hell although they reade and rehearse those words so translated certainly no man will nor ought to acknowledge Every man is assured of the coÌ„trarie You can argue nothing then heerein by our vsuall naming of this word Hell in this place of the Creed Which yet is al that you * Pag. â—â— have heere So that your conclusion is vaine If Hell in English bee Hell and going downe bee descending c. Likewise is that You are content to be tryed by all the Fathers both Greeke and Latin Who all as hath ben shewed doe make against your opinion Also as touching the Scripture you are vtterly destitute thereof which yet alone must take place with vs in this matter All that you bring for your purpose are meerely mistaken mistranslated wordes of Scriptures Creedes and Fathers as I hope hath plainly bene proved This therfore may suffice for vs to refuse your doctrine in these points Wisdome shal be iustified of all her children To God only wise be praise through IESVS CHRIST for ever Rom. 16.17 FINIS Pagin Lin. Faultes Correction 13. in marg pag. 8. pag. 7. 23. 37. he they 24. 2. their the 27. 29. will well 36. 22. in marg your you 49. 24. ne  57. 7. herefore heeretofore 65. 28. externally eternally 65. 8. better buter 77. in marg b pag. 51.55 b pag 71.73 103. 33. torments torments yet no only to it The diverse Significations of the Greeke word Hades Which is haâ—â— according to the CircuÌ„stances of the places where it is vsed See pag. 177. Wherevnto also the Hebrue Sheol may be rightly compared Hades a meere PriuatioÌ„ of this visible Worlde No visible being heere any more pa. 157. c. 169. 178. applyed Natively Seldom yet somtime to All visible transitory things when they are Destroyed from out of this World are seene heere no more pag. 188. c. Often chiefly to Dead Men yea to al dead men both Good and Bad Blessed and Damned pag. 155 c. Yet only in respect that they are Dead and seene no more in this world pag. 156 162. 166. 169 177. 178. Thus somtime it signifieth coÌ„cerning theÌ„ that which Tooke them away hence and holdeth them still pa. 169. 179. 181. 192. either Death it selfe pa. 161. 1â—â— The Power Strength 〈◊〉 Force of death pag 194. their State and coÌ„dition pa. 171. 175. 178 viz of their Whole Person dissolved and taken away hence pa. 158. 177. Partes both Soul pa. 155. Body pa. 201. Place pa. 173. 181. in respect of the dissolved Paâ—tes so 〈◊〉 as they have a Being somwhere in a place after Death no Positive thing in any place but meere Privation as is said from thiâ— Visible World Figuratively by a Poeticall fiction making it sometime as it were a Place of things which in truth have no Being nor Place after they cease to be heere pag. 188. Prosopopoeia lawfully setting out the Power of death or of destruction from hence as if it were a Person having this power pa. 182. 179. 192. Idolatrously making such an imagined Person a false God 173. 179. Synécdoche so it is somtime Hell pag. 187. 171. Heaven in Plato pag. 178. the Grave pag. 159.