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A12213 A reply to an ansvvere, made by a popish adversarie, to the two chapters in the first part of that booke, which is intituled a Friendly advertisement to the pretended Catholickes in Ireland Wherein, those two points; concerning his Majejesties [sic] supremacie, and the religion, established by the lawes and statutes of the kingdome, be further justified and defended against the vaine cavils and exceptions of that adversarie: by Christopher Sibthorp, Knight, one of His Majesties iustices of his Court of Chiefe Place within the same realme. Sibthorp, Christopher, Sir, d. 1632. 1625 (1625) STC 22524; ESTC S117400 88,953 134

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soone as this life is ended everie one without delay goeth eyther to Abrahams bos●me or to the place of torment and in this place is reserved till the day of judgement S. Ambrose also teachech That death is a certaine haven to them Ambros de bono mortis cap. 4. who being tossed in the great sea of this world desire the station of a safe rest And therefore he saith further That whereas fooles doe feare death as the chiefe of evills Wise men doe desire it as a rest after labours and an end of their evills S Basil saith Basil procem in regular fusius disputat This present world is the time of repentance the other of retribution this of working that of rewarding this of patient suffering that of receaving comfort Gregory Nazianzen also in his Funeral orations hath many sayings to this purpose Greg. N●z Orat. 9. ad Iustanum orat 42 in Pasch orat 15 in ●lagam grandinis and was so farre from supposing any Purgatorie or purging prepared for men after their death that hee plainely denieth That after the night of this present life there is any purging to be expected And therefore he giveth us all good counsell telling us That it is better to be corrected and purged now then to be sent unto torments there where the time of punishing is and not of purging And concerning the third point wherein he objecteth heresie It is true that Popish Priests cannot forgive sinnes because they be not the Ministers of Christ but of Antichrist and therefore for any to resort or to goe unto them for absolution or forgivenesse of sinnes must needs rather increase their sinnes then take away any The authoritie neverthelesse of Christ his Ministers to binde and loose and to remitte and retaine sinnes we denie not but affirme and maintaine against the Novatians or whatsoever other heretickes and therefore most injurious is my Adversarie other Papists in charging us with the heresie of the Novatians Micah 7.18 Esai 43. ●5 Mar. 2.7 Luk. 5.21 Revel 3.7 in that point Howbeit it is not an absolute but a Ministeriall limited power and authoritie which the Ministers of Christ have herein received For to forgive sinnes properly and absolutely is a priviledge prerogative proper unto God And therefore did Gregory the great Greg exposit 2. Psalm Poenit. Bishop of Rome say Quis enim potest peccata dimittere nisi solus Deus For who can forgive sinnes but God alone The power of releasing sins saith also Radulphus Ardens Radulph Ard. homil Dominic 1 post Pasch belongeth to God alone But the Ministerie which is also improperly called a power hee hath granted to his substitutes who after their manner doe binde and absolve that is doe declare that men are bound or absolved For God doth first inwardly absolve the sinner by compunction then the Priest outwardly by giving the sentence doth declare that he is absolved Peter Lombard also Master of the Sentences Pet. Lombard lib. 4. Sentent distinct 18. E.F. saith That God alone doth forgive and retayne sinnes and yet hath he given power of binding loosing unto his Church But he bindeth and looseth one way and the Church another For he onely by himselfe forgiveth sinnes who both clenseth the soule from inward blot looseth it from the debt of everlasting death this he hath not granted unto Priests to whom notwithstanding he hath given the power of binding and loosing that is to say of declaring men to be bound or loosed Est ergo in universis servientibus non dominium Optat. libr. 5. sed ministerium There is therefore saith Optatus in all the officers or servants not a dominion but a ministerie Behold Ambr de Spir. Sanct. 〈◊〉 ● c. 10 saith S. Ambrose that by the holy Ghost sinnes are forgiven men to the forgivenesse of sinnes bring but their Ministerie they exercise not any authoritie or power The power of forgiving sinnes saith S. Basil is not given to Christs Ministers absolutely Basil regul Brevior quast 25. but upon the obedience of the penitent his consent with him that hath the care of his foule Yea saith S. Ambrose neyther Angell nor Archangell can Ambros Epist. 28 ad Theod. Imp. nor the Lord himselfe when we have sinned doth release us unlesse we bring repentance with us Christ his Ministers therefore doe not nor ought to declare or pronounce remission and forgivenesse of sinnes to any but to such as Christ their Lord Master by the Tenor of his word hath warranted remission of sinnes unto For if they doe otherwise it is not ratified in heaven which they doe upon earth But all these three points have I handled in my former Booke where aswell as here they appeare to be Apostolicall and Orthodoxe truths and not hereticall or erroneous opinions Now then let all equall men judge how well and wisely this Quidam homo or quoddam animal Anomolon Pseudonymon this Adversarie of mine dealeth with me whilst he termeth me as he pleaseth and resembleth me to a Phripiers Prentice whose office is saith he speaking like a man of skil in that arte or occupation to goe from one Corner unto another searching old Ragges to line new clothes For I have borrowed saith he the shreds of my Religion from Simon Magus the Novatians and other heretickes How much this man is deceaved and mistaken doth now I hope more then sufficiently appeare by that which is before spoken Neyther indeed is it ours but his the Popish Religion that is thus patched and pieced of many and sundrie errors and heresies being therein like a beggars cloake consisting of many ragges and shreds sowed together as diverse Protestants and amongst the rest Doctor Willet in his Tetrastylon Papismi and that learned and Reverend Bishop Doctor Morton in his Catholicke Appeale for the Protestants being an Answere to Brerely the Priest have declared at large and in the many and sundrie particulars thereof Notwithstanding therefore whatsoever mine Adversarie hath said or can say to the contrarie it is apparant by the consanguinitie and agreement in Faith and doctrine which our Church hath with the Apostolicall writings that it was in the Apostles times and by them approved And this being the undoubted true Church and builded upon that inuincible and unruinable Rocke Christ Iesus against which the gates of Hell shall never prevaile must it not needes be supposed to have also a continuance in all succeeding times and ages even to the worlds end notwithstanding that Poperie or whatsoever other errors or heresies did grow up with it like Tares among the good Corne Yea that our Church that is people beleeving and professing the Faith and Religion that we doe was in the times and ages succeeding the Apostles even untill the dayes of the grand Antichrist and during all the time also even of the grand antichrist his raigne is likewise declared in my former
power over the Cleargie-men but onely power directive This distinction was not knowne in the Apostolicke Primitive and ancient Church nor so long as the Bishops of Rome were subject to the Emperors but when the Bishops of Rome contrarie to all lawes both humane and divine had trayterously and wickedly subdued the Emperors and that it could be said of Emperors and Kings as Bellarmine speaketh that Non sunt amplius Clericorū superiores They are no longer Soveraignes or superiors to Cleargie-men Then did this distinction arise or grow that the Kings might have a directive power but no coactive power over thē that is might direct them to what was good but might not compell thē to it And so faith also mine Adversarie that coactive power imposeth penalties Now this distinction is easily answered and confuted yea he might have perceaved it in my former Booke pag. 7.8.9.10 to have beene sufficiently answered and confuted For besides other proofes Aug lib. 1 in fine contr Epist Parmen it is there shewed by diverse testimonies out of S. Augustine himselfe against the Donatists That Kings and Princes may not onely direct or command but may also by Lawes penalties and punishments compell their Subjects and consequently Cleargie-men asvvell as others to obedience in that vvhich is good and godly Yea it is the proper and peculiar right of Kings and Princes externally to use a power coactive by reason of the sword committed to them from God which Ecclesiasticall Ministers by vertue of their Ecclesiasticall calling and office cannot doe And seeing Parents have a power coactive over their children and Masters in a familie over their servants verie strange it were if Kings should not be allowed to have a power coactive over their subjects But it is indeede verie well knowne that the Christian Emperors in ancient time did use a power coactive even over Cleargie-men aswell as over others inflicting penalties and punishments upon them As for example Constantine that Christian Emperor exiled and banished Eusebius Bishop of Nicomedia Theoderes lib. 1. cap. 20. and Theognius Bishop of Nice and hee saith further That if any man whether Bishop or other were offended at that his banishing of them and would grow malepart thereupon Illius statim audacia Ministri Dei hoc est mea executione coercebitur His boldnesse shall forthwith be repressed by the execution of Gods minister that is of my selfe Another Constantine also by whose Imperiall Authoritie the sixt Councell at Constantinople was held in a Decree inserted in that Councell Synod 6. Act. 18 Conc. edit ●in to ● pag. 92. saith Siquidem Episcopus est vel Clericus vel Monachico circundatus habitu deportationis paenam exsolvet If he be a Bishop or a Clearke or a Moncke let him be punished with deportation or banishment Charle-Mayne also in a French Synode Tom 2. Concil decreed imprisonment Si ordinatus Presbiter fuerit duos annos in carcere permaneat Aug. lib. 1. in fine contr epist. Par. S. Augustine againe declareth that there was a Law Imperiall against those that professed themselves Christians and true Catholickes and yet were not so but kept private Conventicles 〈◊〉 that he that ordayned a Clearke for that purpose or the Clearke so ordained should loose ten pounds of gold and the place also where such Conventicles were kept should be forfeyted to the Emperor You see then for the refelling and overthrowe of that foolish and false distinction that the Christian Emperors had power coactive over Bishops and Cleargie-men punishing them sometime with deportation exile or banishment sometime with imprisonment and sometime with penalties and losses of summes of money and other forfeytures And upon some kinde of offendors you may read that they inflicted the punishment of death And indeede to what end hath the King this Regall and Temporall Authoritie jurisdiction the power coactive in his hands by reason of the Sword committed to him from God if hee may not use it and put it in execution Yea my Adversarie himselfe confesseth and saith that Iurisdictio nullius videretur esse momenti si coertionem aliquam non haberet Iurisdiction might seeme to be of no regard if it had not some coertion or power coactive joyned with it Againe he saith Cui jurisdictio data est ea quoque concessa intelliguntur sine quibus jurisdictio expleri non potest To whom jurisdiction is given all those things be also understood to be granted without which that jurisdiction cannot be performed Wherefore even by those Maximes which himselfe citeth and approveth it is manifest that seeing the King hath a power jurisdiction and Authoritie to direct command Cleargie-men he hath also a power coercitive or coactive over them to compell correct and punish them if otherwise they will not obey those his directions and commandements So that my Adversarie needed to have no better confuter of this his idle distinction then himselfe But pag. 5. in that first Chapter of my former Booke I alledged that Text of Rom. 13. to prove also the Kings Authoritie in matters Ecclesiasticall aswell as Civill or Temporall And indeede this Text serveth also verie sufficiently for that purpose For as there is here no exception of any person so is there also no exception of anie cause or matter but whosoever doth evill be it in what kinde of cause soever he is here made subject to this sword and Temporall Authoritie of Emperors Kings and Princes For the Text saith That they are the ordinance of God and the Ministers of God attending employed and constituted to this verie end and purpose for the prayse countenancing and encouraging of the good and wel-doers and for discountenancing Aug. Epist 50. discouraging and punishing of the bad and such as be evill-doers And therefore doth S. Augustine say that Quicunque legibus Imperatorum quae pro Dei veritate f●runtur obtemperare non vult grande acquirit supplicium Whosoever will not obey the Lawes of the Emperor which are made for the trueth of God doth purchase to himselfe a great punishment Aug. Epist 166. For saith he in another place Hoc jubent Imperatores quod jubet Christus quia cum jubent bonum per illos non jubet nisi Christus The Emperors command that which Christ also commandeth because when they command that which is good it is Christ himselfe that commandeth by them Aug de Civit. Dei lib. 5. cap. 24 Yea S. Agustine was so farre from this point of Poperie to denie or disallow the Authoritie of Emperors Kings and Princes in matters Ecclesiasticall and concerning Religion as that he doth evermore teach and defend it whensoever there was occasion to speake of it in somuch that he saith Imperatores foelices dicimus si suam potestatem ad Dei cultum maxime dilatandum c. We affirme the Emperors to be happie if they extend their Authoritie the most they can to doe service unto God in