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death_n	life_n	sin_n	spirit_n	19,754	5	5.4357	4	true

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A19220	The Catholike moderator: or A moderate examination of the doctrine of the Protestants Prouing against the too rigid Catholikes of these times, and against the arguments especially, of that booke called, The answer to the Catholike apologie, that we, who are members of the Catholike, apostolike, & Roman Church, ought not to condeme the Protestants for heretikes, vntill further proofe be made. First written in French by a Catholike gentleman, and now faithfully translated. See the occasion of the name of Huguenots, after the translaters epistle.; Examen pacifique de la doctrine des Huguenots. English	Constable, Henry, 1562-1613.; W. W., fl. 1623.	1623 (1623)	STC 5636.2; ESTC S109401	62,312	88

but a wrangling about the word as I haue shewed before when I discourst of the number of the Sacraments As for the parts Namely Contrition Confession and Satisfaction if that he blames the Huguenots for not holding them properly parts thereof I answer him That neither doe all Catholikes hold them so For Durandus makes but two parts Confession and Absolution and Scotus saies that there is but one which is Absolution But if the question be whether these three things be requisite or not the Huguenots will also say that they are to wit that it is necessary for a Penitent to haue Contrition and sorrow of heart to confesse and acknowledge our sins vnto God nay and that it is profitable also to confesse them to the Pastors of the Church but not so absolutely necessarie because according to the iudgment of the learned Catholikes this Auricular Confession was neuer instituted by God nor yet of a long time practised in the Church as Beatus Rhenanus who was himselfe a Catholike hath very well obserued Finally as for Satisfaction it is to be considered either in this life or in the life to come in Purgatory That in this life the Huguenots approue of and teach it to bee most necessary to Saluation to giue satisfaction to men whom we haue any way offended and in regard of our sins against God to walke in newnesse of life Moreouer they confesse that God punisheth men in this life by temporall afflictions yea euen those whose sins are pardoned T is true indeed that they deny any satisfaction or punishment to be in Purgatory after death for sinne but herein their error cannot be great first because S. Austen puts it down no otherwise than as a thing probable and not necessary saying no more but It may be that it is true And secondly because that neither can the Catholikes agree vpon it amongst themselues some of them placing Pargatory here vpon earth others vnder it some neither aboue nor below but in the Aire Some affirme that all the Elect shall goe thither yea the Apostles and Martyrs themselues others thrust in those only who haue not in this life giuen full satisfactiō for their sins And for the fire some would haue it a Materiall fire some fire and water others neither of both Lastly some there be that teach that the soules are there tormented by Deuils others by Angels others by neither of both How then I pray is this questiō likely to be so necessary about which there is so much vncertainty that we neither know as I haue shewed who they be that goe thither nor where it is nor by whom they are to be tormented nor what they are to suffer The difference then betwixt the Catholikes and the Huguenots is but this That the Huguenots beleeue it not at all and the Catholikes know not what they beleeue See here in briefe the Huguenots opinions vpon the points before mentioned by which we may perceiue their errours not to be in the substance of Faith and doe not therefore hinder them from being of the Church and Catholike Religion For euery errour in Theologie doth not separate a man from the Church S. Cyprian was an Anabaptist in the point of Rebaptization and yet was he a Martyr S. Hierome as I said before held those bookes of Scripture for Apocryphall which the Councell of Trent hath since concluded to be Canonicall and yet remaines hee still Canonized for a Saint Tertullian one of the ancient Fathers fell to be a Montanist And Origen alone held as many errours as all the Huguenots together yet was he one of the most famous Doctors of the whole Church And to come neerer to our times In how many questions of Diuinitie did Scotus and Thomas Aquinas differ the two prime pillars of Schoole-Diuinitie Melchior Canus and Bellarmine accuse Caietane of diuers errors who for all that remaines one of the venerable Colledge of Cardinals The Dominicans and Franciscans could neuer yet agree about our Ladies conception yet be both of them held for very good Catholikes So that as I said the Huguenots may very safely be accounted good Catholikes so long as they hold the foundation of Diuinitie although they put some few tyles out of order on the roofe of the house and build with hay and straw vpon condition still that as S. Paul saith it be vpon the same foundation Otherwise we must conclude the Martyrs the Saints the ancient Fathers the Doctors of the Church the prime Schoolemen the Cardinals yea and the Catholikes themselues to be no Catholikes CAP. 2. 〈…〉 Catholikes as well as the Huguenots doe not agree with the ancient Church in matter of Ceremonies and that therefore the Huguenots are not to be condemned AS in men we consider their bodies and their apparell so in the Church likewise we consider the Doctrine and the Ceremonies As for the doctrine or body of Religion I haue showne in the former Chapter that the Huguenots haue the braine the heart and the liuer and all other the vitall parts whole and sound that is that they yet hold all the principall points of faith and that the maine thing that can seeme to be blamed in them is that they haue some certaine warts or spots in their skinne certaine errors I meane in the circumstances and application of that faith Now for the apparell and ceremony of Religion I confesse that the Church of the Huguenots is not so gorgeously or richly set out as the Church of Rome and is for the same cause not so well entertained and more despised in the Courts of great Princes and Monarches of the world which I iudge to be the reason why the Catholike Apology endeuoured to excuse the simple and naked Ceremonies of the Reformed Church without any intent thereby to disparage the gorgeous and gay attire of the Catholike Church but to shew onely That wee should not so meanly esteeme this outward simplicity as to condemne it without hearing Euen as that officer would bee held too rigide and seuere that would hinder a poore man from presenting his Petition to the Prince because hee is not clad like a Courtier The reason for which the Apology doth excuse them is for that the ancient Church did sometimes heretofore content her selfe with the like simplicity Now vpon this occasion the Author of the answer perswades himselfe that he hath gotten a great aduantage vpon the Catholike Apology Because saith he he can proue that diuers of these ceremonies which the Huguenots doe reiect are very ancient To which I answer That I willingly accept as much as hee grants that is that he cannot proue that all the ceremonies of the Church of Rome be most ancient but onely as he saith diuers of them As for those diuers which hee instanceth in that you may see how impertinent they are I will make it appeare in these two things First that he doth not proue against the Huguenots that the Church

THE CATHOLIKE MODERATOR OR A MODERATE EXAMINATION OF THE DOCTRINE of the PROTESTANTS Prouing against the too rigid CATHOLIKES of these times and against the Arguments especially of that Booke called The Answer to the Catholike Apologie That we who are members of the CATHOLIKE APOSTOLIKE ROMAN CHVRCH ought not to condeme the PROTESTANTS for HERETIKES vntill further proofe be made First written in French by a Catholike Gentleman and now faithfully translated See the occasion of the name of HVGVENOTS after the Translaters Epistle LONDON Printed for NATHANIEL BVTTER 1623. THE TRANSLATER TO the Christian Readers AND TO ALL THOSE ESPECIALly whose hard hap it is or may be to be seduced vnto Popery That by the helpe of this Booke and their owne Prayers they may be deliuered from the the Euill when the Priests and Iesuits would Lead them into temptation THere is a bold Nation of men the Tempters aboue mentioned I meane slily of late crept in amongst you well-meaning and abused people whose enticements as you know too well still begin with the Church saying you Protestants are direct Hereticks you haue no Church Are you therefore reconciled to the Church Meaning all this time the Romane Church Had they fairely meant the Catholike Church I know no Caluinist that hath put this Article out of his Creed I beleeue in the holy Catholike Church And to say I beleeue What else implies it but to beleeue himselfe to be of it else why his Creed That therefore you may make one Romanist to answer all the rest doe but turne him that would seduce you vnto these two first Chapters and he shall there finde that for those few points of Reformation both in matter of Doctrine and Ceremonie wherein the Protestants haue iustly dissented from the Papists we can be no Heretiques And that their owne new Doctors who boast so much of Antiquitie can no where shew our Doctrine to be sufficiently condemned before the time of that fifth Gospell of the Romanists the Councell of Trent I meane which ended no more than some 60 yeeres agoe the third Chapter will euidently shew them And how incompetent a Iudge an Aduersarie is and how vnlawfull a Councell that of Trent was the Instances of the fourth and fifth Chapters will euince it Lastly that we Protestants hauing euer continued true members of the true holy and catholique Church doe not now need any Reconciliation to theirs of Rome the last Chapter will abundantly demonstrate it Which six Chapters being written by a Gentleman who euery where professes himselfe one of theirs if they would offer to shift off as they haue euasions enow by saying that what is written in this Booke is but the opinion of one Doctor Loe then we haue not only the Authors opinions but the strength of his reasons to vrge them withall All which are so mannerly so directly and so succinctly toucht vpon and come off so handsomely as no man in my opinion hath yet said better that purposed to say so little To giue you therefore the minde of the Authour in a word Nothing was here written with any intention to vrge vs Protestants any whit to depart from our Right in yeelding to a Reconciliation with them but to perswade them rather to esteeme better of vs and to demonstrate withall that if they will iudge right they must needs thinke well And this is the purpose of the Translator also To shew you therefore to vnderstand all this Booke If the Reader shall sometimes feele that this Author now and then giues the Protestants a light fillip by the way he shall obserue in the conclusion that it was to reach his owne Romanists a smarter blow which is satisfaction enough And that hee giues vs any at all let vs but consider that the Author though he were a moderate man yet that he was withall a Papist and it will take away much of the scandall Lastly which will giue vs as much aduantage as we can desire from one man which is to answer them by one of their owne this Gentleman the Author H. C. was too well knowne here in England to haue continued a most zealous Roman Catholique vntill his dying day and yet neuerthelesse are all his Reasons for Moderation directed to the Papists as if they should first begin it and all his conclusions directly for the Protestants as though we should still hold them Nay and which is somewhat more whereas all this is with vs of England common to our Brethren the Protestants of France yet doth this Booke make more for vs at home than it doth for them for whose sakes it was first written For though we haue with them entertained the points of Reformation yet haue we not so far receded from the more Primitiue Roman Church which he stands for but that we still retaine more of the necessarie Ceremonies Solemnities and Church Discipline than they of France haue done witnesse his second Chapter of Ceremonies which is still for our aduantage As therefore this little Booke hath beene twice already printed in France which is an Argument of the Protestants good liking of it there so hath it foure or fiue seuerall times both by Diuines and Gentlemen of our owne Religion been translated both into Latine and English which is a demonstratiue Reason to me how much it hath beene lik'd and desired To saue therefore the labour of writing it out which I still obserued as many desirous to doe as could get Copies of it I haue thought fit to let mine be published desiring all those that light vpon it to be as impartiall and charitable as the Author himselfe wishes them which if they be I hope well that the strictest need not be offended and the well-minded may reape much benefit by it Which being my only desire I shall euer pray for THE FIRST OCCASION how the name of HVGVENOTS which our Author euery where vseth came first to be giuen to the French PROTESTANTS THere is euer some Salt as well as Gall in malice and this temper makes it sometimes bitterly witty as may appeare by this name of Huguenots by which and no other doe the French Papists generally vouchsafe to call the Protestants It was taken vp about the yeere 1559. which was some foure or fiue yeeres before Mr. Calvins death Till which time they were called Tourengeaux of the Citie of Tours where the Protestants mostly vsed But about that time there hauing beene a foolish opinion of a night-Night-Spirits walking vp and downe the streets which they called King Hugon This fancie made one of the Citie Gates to be called King Hugons Gate and the Protestants being once obserued in the night to goe thorow that Gate vnto their Assemblies and holy Exercises were hereupon called Huguenots He that will see more of this Name and the occasion of it may finde a handsome Discourse of it in Monsieur Pasquiers Recherches lib. 7. cap. 52. whither I refer you TO ALL THE KINGS FAITHFVL SVBIECTS and principally