Pitcher attribute this to God that in word he forbiddeth Adam and all men to sinne and in very deed willeth sinne hath so decreed it that it cannot be auoyded Is not this high blasphemie to make God an hypocrite who so hateth hypocrites Now to proue that God decreed not nor laid an necessity that Adam should fall consider God did not leaue him vnfurnished with any thing that might support him in that estate in which hee created him as first that God prouided him a most delectable place Paradice secondly that hee prouided all manner food sufficient for his conseruation besides the tree of knowledge so that he was no way forced to eate of that tree thirdly he had a most fit helpe and comfort for him his wife Heuah fourthly he had domination ouer the creatures fiftly God left him not idle but appointed him worke least Satan should thereby fill him with inuentions for want of imployment * Math. 13.24 as he doth at such times sixtly he gaue him a holy Lawe the penaltie for the breach whereof was death seauenthly and lastly he gaue him will power not to haue eaten as the contrary minded confesse all which manifestly proueth against all gainesayers that God did neither decree or laid any necessitie vpon Adam to transgresse and so fall from that estate If any obiect that if God would not that Adam should fall he would not haue giuen him a Lawe to ensnare him I answer that the giuing of the Lawe was that God might retaine his Soueraigntie ouer man and that man might testifie his dutifull subiection to his Lord and Creator and also that God might be iust in punishing transgression and mercifull in forgiuing through repentance and faith in Christ and therefore I conclude with th'Apostle Rom. 7.12 wherfore euery Law of God is holy and the Commandement holy and iust good and God doth no more intend to ensnare any man by any of his righteous Lawes then a iust King doth intend to ensnare any by making iust Lawes against malefactors Further I demaund if Adam was not created the Sonne of God Ereu. Yea for Luke saith it plainely in reckoning the Genealogie of Iesus Christ Luke 3. Odeg. Christ argueth thus * Mat. 7.11 If you which are euill doe good vnto your Children how much more shall your heauenly Father From whence I reason If euill men haue so much goodnes that they would not beget Children to misery what impietie is it to thinke such a thing of God as that hee created Adam his owne sonne to sinne and so to misery and that of necessitie And besides Nature teacheth in all the workes of God that there is naturally in euery creature Loue towards those that are begotten by them which proceedeth from their Creator and therefore it must needes follow that God is endued with the same good if out of the fountaine of his owne Loue hee impart that qualitie vnto other thinges Ereu. I thinke that cannot be denyed Odeg But to create Adam vnto misery and wretchednes is no signe of loue but of hatred Moses writeth thus Let vs make Man in our owne Image like vnto vs who may gouerne c. Tell me nowe is sinne the Image of God Ereu. No but the defacing of the Image of God Odeg. Therefore if man were created vnto the Image of God surely he was created vnto righteousnes and not vnto sinne Now concerning the Lordship that God giueth him ouer the Earth and liuing Creatures is that sinne Ereu. No in no case for by sinne not onely this Soueraigne power is abolished but euen the life of Man * Rom. 6.23 for the reward of sinne is death Odeg. You say very right Now that saying Let vs make man in our Image is his Creation and that saying which may rule is his Destination or the thing whereunto in creation he is appointed now if both of them be vnto righteousnes and not vnto sinne surely it followeth that sinne hath his beginning neither from Creation nor Destination Moreouer God himselfe witnessing that all whatsoeuer hee had made was very good doth shew also that man was very good also God placed him in Paradice * 2 Cor. 12 4. Reuel 2.7 a figure of that blessed life Therefore it is manifest Adam was Created placed and destined vnto righteousnes and happines and not to sinne and misery Ereu. How then came he to sinne and misery Odeg. Not by Gods Creation or Destination but by his owne disobedience of the most righteous Law of God Thou shalt not eate c. Ereu. Could not God that made him vnto righteousnes and blessednes haue made him also that he could not bee depriued of that estate For this is it that troubleth all men therefore they conclude that because hee sinned and God hindred him not it was Gods will yea and decree that hee should sinne for nothing can bee done against his will say they Odeg. Two thinges I must heere manifest 1. In what estate God made Adam which I desire may be well obserued 2. That many thinges bee done against the will of God For the first I answer it is an ignorant conceite of theirs for if God had made Adam that he could not but continue righteous he must haue made him God like himselfe vnchangeable or if God had made him that he could not but sinne what was he then but as the Deuils now are vnchangeable But God in making Man made a very good creature yet subiect to change by hauing his will brought to submit vnto euill through the Deuils temptations so that I may conclude that God could not make Man otherwise then he made him a reasonable creature yet mutable able to obey his righteous precepts which if he did hee would continue him in that blessed estate bee created him in if not he would bring vpon him his iudgements God not forcing him either way Further if God had made Adam vnchangeably good that he could not breake his righteous Law then it had bene to no purpose to set a penaltie to that law which could not bee transgressed And then had those most holy attributes of God his Iustice to punish sinne and his Mercy to pardon vpon repentance beene vtterly without vse towards man but if any obiect God making man changeable it proueth that God decreed he should fall that he might make way for these his attributes I answer it is a false conclusion for although God did know Adam would sinne and prouided meanes of mercy for his sinne yet hee did not decree and force him to sinne for the cause aforesaide as also himselfe testifieth As he liueth hee would haue no man transgresse and so come vnder the execution of his Iustice * Ezek. 18. 33. Secondly Adam against the will of God eate of the Tree of knowledge Pharaoh against the will of God would not let the people goe The Isralites often and many times rebelled against Gods will yea they did thinges
it be obserued what Baptisme is I say a washing away the filth of the Flesh is not Baptisme that is the least part of Baptisme where the greater is and where the greater is wanting it is no part of Baptisme at all the which not onely the Scriptures teach but our aduersaries confesse as shal be shewed First the Scriptures teach that the Baptisme that saueth vs is not the putting away the filth of the Flesh but in that a good Conscience maketh request vnto God * 1. Pet. 3.21 c. It is the Baptisme of repentance for remission of sinnes * Mark 1.4 The Sprinkling of the heart from an euill conscience and washing the body with pure water is that whereby wee come to God * Heb. 10.22 It is the washing of the new birth and renuing of the holy Ghost * Tit. 3.5 For we must be borne of the Spirit or we cannot enter into the Kingdome of God * Ioh. 3.5 for nothing auayleth in CHRIST but a new creature * 2. Cor. 5. Gal. 6. 2. The Cathechisme set forth by authority saith That a Sacrament as Baptisme c. hath two partes the outward visible signe and the inward Spirituall Grace the outward visible signe is Water c. the inward Spirituall Grace is a death vnto sinne a new birth vnto righteousnes The English Primmer for being by Nature borne in sinne and the children of wrath we are hereby made the children of Grace And further they confesse that Repentance and Faith is required of euery person to bee Baptised Repentance whereby they forsake sinne and Faith whereby they stedfastly beleeue the Promise of God made to them in that Sacrament And Vrsinus saith thus * Cathechism pag. 723. Hee that shall beleeue c. In these wordes is noted briefly the right vse of Baptisme in which right vse the Sacraments are ratefied but in whatsoeuer corrupt and vnlawfull vse and administration the Sacraments are no Sacraments but are Sacraments to them onely who receiue them with a true Faith c. All which being considered If they cannot proue and that by the Scriptures that Infants haue their hearts Sprinkled from an euill conscience and so haue a good Conscience that they haue Repentance that they haue the washing of the new birth which is to be born againe euen of the Spirit and that they haue Faith I say all these or any one of them let them proue by Scripture Infants haue or else their consequence vanisheth and it is no Sacrament by their owne confession The blasphemous inuention of Pope Iginius will nothing auayle them which is that they haue or doe performe them by their Godfathers and Godmothers for the which there is not the least shew in all the Scriptures of God For the iust shall liue by his owne Faith * Heb. 2.4 Rom. 1.17 Gal. 3.11 Heb. 10.38 the righteousnes of the righteous shall * Ezek. 18. 14. be vpon himselfe Iust Iob Noah and Daniell shall deliuer neither Sonne nor Daughter but onely themselues by their righteousnes * Ezek. 14. Chap. They affirme indeed that Infants be regenerate but let vs agree what Regeneration is so Repentance Faith by Gods Scriptures then it will appeare plainly Infants haue them not Regeneration is a turning from sinne to God * Rom. 6.11 1 Thes 1.9 Tit. 3.5 Repentance is a sight and knowing of sinne by the Law a confessing of sinne a sorrowing for sinne and a promise and endeauour to forsake sinne as before Heb. 11.1 Faith is the ground or assurance of thinges hoped for the euidence of things not seene and it is accompanied with obedience Iam. 2.17.26 For Faith without works is dead Our aduersaries say Repentance is a forsaking of sinne and Faith is a stedfast beleeuing of the Promises of God made to them that are Baptised Let them either now proue that Infants are turned from sinne to God in righteousnes that they see know sinne by the Law that they confesse sinne sorrow for it and promise and endeauour to forsake it that they haue stedfast beliefe of the promises of God Let them proue these or they say nothing and wee may truely conclude they are neither Regenerate neither haue they Repentance nor Faith and so may by no consequence be Baptised Ereu. They alledge Act. 2. as a place much making for them Amend your liues and bee Baptised euery one of you in the Name of the Lord Iesus Christ for the Promise is made to you and to your Children and to all that are a farre off euen as many as the Lord our God shall call Odeg. The place truely considered maketh against themselues for these to whom the Apostle speaketh being pricked in their hearts by the call of God in Peters Preaching and crying out men brethren what shall we do Peter answeres them Amend your liues and be Baptised euery one not onely be Baptised but also amend your liues and such as gladly receiued his word were Baptised So that Fathers of the Iewes and their Children and Fathers of the Gentiles and their Children must all amend their liues and be Baptised gladly receiue the word or else this Promise here made appertaineth not to them for the Promise is to all that the Lord our God shall call Fathers and Children Children must amend their liues and gladly receiue the word or else their sinnes cannot bee put away neither can their Fathers repentance saue them from damnation Againe let it be well obserued that this Couenant or Promise * Act. 1. is the couenant of saluation by Christ made vnto the Children of Abraham vpon the same Condition that it is made to Abraham himselfe namely vpon repentance and Faith in Christ as is most plaine in these wordes * Act. 13.31 c. And wee declare vnto you that touching the Promise made vnto the Fathers God hath fulfilled it vnto vs their Children in that hee raised vp IESVS from the dead Verse 38. c. And bee it knowne vnto you therefore men and brethren that through this man is Preached vnto you remission of sinnes and from all things from the which yee could not be iustified by the Law of Moses by him euery one that beleeueth is iustified In these wordes we see the Promise made vnto the Fathers is thus fulfilled to their Children that Christ is raised from the dead that through him they might haue remission of sinnes euen euery one that beleeueth might bee iustified Fathers and Children And whereas many stumble at the worde Children conceiuing that it is meant of Infants it is heere and elsewhere vsed often in the Scriptures for men of vnderstanding * Act. 3.25 Gal. 4.19 1 Cor. 14.20 Heb. 2.10.14 1 Ioh. 12 28. â— 21 3.18 Ereu. They obiect 1. Cor. 7.14 the Children of beleeuing Parents are holy and being holy they may be Baptised say they Odeg. This place
our most dread Soueraigne who hath himselfe written much to the same effect may consider of and doe accordingly as blessed bee our God all the Kingdomes that wee know or can heare of practiseth the same except Spaine and England In this writing we haue obserued this order to set down such affirmations as the contrary minded haue written and spoken in these thinges 1. Touching Predestination 2. Of Election 3. Of Falling away 4. Of Free-will 5. Of Originall sinne and lastly Of the entrance into Christ one depending vpon another and so haue answered them from point to point by way of Dialogue There affirmations thou mayst see to be most fearefull one and that a Principall one * Knox in his printed Booke aga an aduersary of Gods Pred as hee calleth him pag. 255. saith Gods Predestination was the originall or first cause of Adams fall yea of all the wickednes that euer hath beene is or shall be committed yea in plaine wordes that God is not onely the principall cause of all thinges but also the very Author appointing all thinges to the one part and to the other by his Counsell and That whatsoeuer the Ethnicks ascribed to Fortune the same wee ought saith he to ascribe to the Prouidence of God which how large a blasphemie it is will appeare to euery tender Conscience Againe they say That God hath Elected the lesser part of Man-kinde euen some particuler persons without any Condition who cannot but bee saued by any meanes And againe That God hath Reprobated the greater part of man-kinde without all cause of desert who cannot but bee Damned by any manner of meanes Christ not dying for them Which Doctrine how it impeacheth not onely the Iustice of God mercy of God in Christ and protestations of God to the contrary in the Scriptures but also the sufficiencie and meritoriousnes of Christs most precious Death and sufferings and laying the imputation of Mans damnation not on his owne sinne and vnbeleefe but on God and Christ shall by this that followeth manifestly appeare The cheife maintayners of this Destination as wee see by experience are the Caluinists or Puritanes as they are called one of their chiefe Prophets further affirming * Knox the said Booke pag 317. with 312. That the wicked are not onely left by Gods suffering but compelled to sinne by power c Wherein you plainely see their opinion not onely that men cannot chuse but doe what wickednes and mischiefe they doe but also they are compelled with the power force and compulsion of Gods Predestination to commit all those wicked crimes for which they are either executed with the Temporall sword or damned with euerlasting torment Consider wee beseech you not the persons of men be they neuer so high neuer so wise neuer so many but mark the opinion it selfe euen in thy Conscience and in the sight of God whether any thing can be more repugnant to the Nature of God or more defacing his Iustice then to say That God punisheth Man with the torments of Hell in euerlasting Fire for doing those thinges which hee himselfe hath Predestinated Ordayned Decreed determined appointed willed and compelled him to doe and that a man cannot chuse but of necessity mâ—st doe by the force and compulsion of his Predestnation Which being true then what is our Life but a meere Destiny all our dooings Gods ordinances and all our Imaginations branches of his Predestination Let no man deceiue you with vaine wordes wherein they would seeme to temper the matter with more reuerent speaking of it as they say seeing they plainly holde these principles and when they see their time speake plainely thereof themselues as you may well perceiue by that which hath already and shal yet more largely in this writing following be rehearsed If it be a truth why should it not plainely be spoken If it bee a truth that Traytors bee Predestinated of God to conspire the destruction of their Princes and Rebels Predestinated of God to rebell against their Soueraignes If we say it be a truth that God hath so Predestinated them and that they must of necessitie and cannot chuse but commit such wickednes why should it not be plainely spoken Except men should be ashamed to speake the Truth But in what Scripture is it written The greatest shew they haue is collected from Rom. 9. from whence they conceiue That God hated Esau and so all wicked men before they were borne and hath Decreed all theâ—r actions which they doe whilest they liue vpon the earth for which cause we haue explained the whole Chap. Shewing that they doe most wofully peruert it For proofe whereof wee haue the Apostle Peters * 2. Pet. 3.15 c. approbation of vs against them who writ after Pauls Epistles that speaketh of these things which we desire may be carefully obserued and then a way most easie will be made for Pauls meaning in all his Epistles concerning this thing That God hateth wicked men we confesse the Scriptures plenteously witnes but wheresoeuer it is said that God hated any there will we manifestly proue that they hated God first and that their wicked euill deseruing went before his hatred RoÌ„ 5.10 2 Chr. 36 15.16 For he is so Gracious and mercifull that he loueth his enâ—mies So slowe to wrath or hatred that hee striueth with them by his Word and Spirit vntill there be no remedy When there is no remedy to reclaime them but that in Iustice his wrath must needs breake forth Yet doth he lament for thâ—â—â— Math. 23.37 in these wordes Jerusalem Ierusalem c. how oft would I haâ—e gathered thy Children c. And Oh that thou hadst knowne the Day of thy visitation but now it is hid from thine eyes Psal 81.13 Vers 15. And Oh that my people had harkened to mee and Israell had walked in my wayes c. And the haters of the Lord should haue bene subiect to him and their time should haue 〈…〉 for euer And many the like Thus haue wee giuen you a taste of that which followeth beseeching you 〈◊〉 and Iudge without partiality and the God of Wisdom giue you wisdome in all thinges Amen Yours ready to doe you any good thâ— seruants of Christ falsâ—y 〈◊〉 Ana-baptists Predestination The Speakers Ereunetes a Searcher Odegos a Guide FRiend Odegos I haue bene of late much troubled about a weightie controuersie which at this day there is much adoe about that among the learned I will propound it vnto you and desire to knowe your iudgement in the thing and how you answer such obiections as are made The thing is Predestination the consequences of it wherein the Caluinists holde First thus they write Propos disputed in the Vniuersity of Geneua Page 25. Predestination is that eternall and immoueable decree of GOD whereby as it pleased his Maiestie he hath decreed all thinges both vniuersally perticularly so doth effect them by the causes created in like sorte
against Gods secret and reuealed will * Ier. 32.35 19.5 which hee forbad them and it neuer came into his minde that they should doe such abhominations * Math. 23.37 afterwards they wold not be gathered which was against Christ's will is not all the wickednes that is â—oÌ„mitted done against the will of God where is Gods will knowne vnto vs but in his word this their imaginatioÌ„ of Gods secret will is iâ— that blindeth them what secrets God hauâ— not reuealed in his Worde we haue nothing to doe with * 1 Cor. 4.6 wee may not presume about what is written Further Gods will may be thus manifested either what hee wills maâ— should doe A short discription of Gods will or what he will doe in himselfe what hee will doe in himselfe men and Angels cannot resist but what hee wils man tâ— doe may bee resisted as before hath been proued Ereu. You haue very sufficiently answered 〈◊〉 these Aâ— the Calu with one consent the action not the sinne of the action one thing more concerning Adam aâ— then wee will proceed to other of their obiectionâ— they say that God decreed that act of Adam disobedience and so of all men but not the sinne of those actâ—ons In these wordes though wee be compelled to say that God is the Author of the fact yet must wee answere but not of the crime Odeg. This is meerly a fabulous riddle A spade a spade what is the difference God is the author of the very fact and deed of Adams sinne yea of Adulterie Theft Murther Treason and yet hee is not the author of the sinne and why the subtilty of the Riddle is this that sinne is nothing The theefe is not hanged for the deed that he hath committed for God is the author thereof but he is hanged for the sinne and that is for nothing for when they say God is the Author of all thinges then nothing is excepted but sinne is nothing and therefore hee is not the Auâ—hor of sinne The theefe is hanged for noâ—hing the murtherer is put to death for noâ—hing the Traytor looseth his head for noâ—hing the wicked is punished in euerlasting fire for nothing A maruailous Sophisticaâ—ion But to bee short though many wayes his subtiltie might be answered I will oneâ—y take their definition of sinne where they â—y very truely * The nature of Sinne is defined by the authority of Scripture to be a thought word In a Frenâ—â— booke long since printed translated into English or deed contrary to the will of God Now because they say that he is the Author of all euill deedes though not of the crimes let vs passe ouer the euill thoughts and euill wordes and speake onely of the deed it selfe which they themselues define to bee sinne and contrary to Gods will If then God bee the author of that fact or deed which deed is sinne and contrary to Gods will how can they then say that God is the author of the fact but not of the fault seeing they themselues set forth not onely a thought word but also a deede to be sinne and if God bee the author of that same deede Of this more hereafter as Adams eating the forbidden Fruit and the like which deede was sinne is it not most plaine they holde that God is the author of sinne and all this their trauaile is to proue that the ordinance and predestination of God doth so carry men headlong to all actions bee they neuer so mischieuous that of necessity they cannot chuse but commit the same Ereu. They are very straight in vsing the word Author therefore I pray you bee respectiue you lay nothing to their charge but what you are able to prooue Odeg. It is most meete so therefore marke their owne wordes Iohn Knox equall with Caluin himselfe in the first inuenting broaching of this Doctrine in these parts of the world In his printed Booke approued of all against an aduersary of Gods Predestination as hee calleth him in Pag. 155. saith thus Therefore whatsoeuer the Ethnicks and ignorant did attribute vnto Fortune we assigne vnto the Prouidence of God and presently after hee saith Wee shall iudge nothing to come of Fortune but all commeth by the determination of his Counsell and further It displeaseth him when wee esteeme any thing to proceed from any other so that wee doe not onely beholde him and know him not onely the principall cause of all thinges but also the Author appointing all thinges to the one part to the other by his Counsell Marke well his wordes and the very sence thereof all commeth from God saith hee God is the principall cause and God is the Author of it whatsoeuer it be God appointeth all thinges both to the one part and to the other both to the wicked and to the Godly all thinges nothing is excepted as well Damnation as Saluation aswell Sinne as Vertue aswell wickednes as Holines As for Fortune I know it to bee a heathenish fable but where hee saith that God is not onely the principall cause but also the Author of all thinges without exception and that whatsoeuer the Ethnicks attributed vnto Fortune the same we ought to ascribe vnto the prouidence of God it is such a wide wandring and large blasphemie as hath not lightly bene heard of For who knoweth not that vnto fortune the Ethnicks ascribed all peruerse and pestilent wickednes and all abhomination detesable yet say these professors of desteny whatsoeuer the Ethnicks ascribed vnto Fortune the same we ought to attribute vnto the prouidence of God yâ—a and God is the principall cause and the author thereof Much more I might relatâ— of their fearefull sayings but time would be â—oo short I may truely againe and againe â—rye out woe worth that sinful generation which hath bred and brought forth such a noysome Noueltie to whom the hands of Gods mercy is stretched out all the day long and yet they are euer defying him to his face Consider I beseech thee not the persons of them that speake but seriously marke the opinion it selfe euen in thy Conscience and in the sight of God whether any thing may â—e spoken more repugnant to the Nature of God more contrary to the Word of God or more defacing the Iustice and mercy of God thâ—n to say that God punisheth man with the torments of Hell in euerlasting fiâ—e for doing those thinges which hee himselfe hath Predestinated ordained decreed determined appointed willed compelled him to doe and that which a man cannot chuse but must needs doe by the force and compulsion of his Predestination The Nature of God Exod. 34.6 Psal 103. psa 145.8.9 Esa 30.18 55.7 by manifold Scriptures is declared to bee Gratious and mercifull full of compassion and mercy flowe to anger and repenteth him of the euill proclaiming that as he liueth he would not haue the wicked dye but returne liue not * 2 Pet. 3.9
* 1 Cor. 10.13 Now if the word suffering were vsed in all places in stead of sending they would not thus peruert the Scriptures labouring to make wickednes come frō Gods decree originally for which cause let the holy Euangelists decide the controuersie Mathew saith Math. 8.31.32 And the Deuils besought IESVS saying If thou cast vs out suffer vs to goe into the heard of Swine And Iesus said goe so they went c. Marke saith Mark 5.12.13 the Deuils said Send vs into the heard of Swine c. and Iesus gaue them leaue Luke saith Luk. 8.32 the Deuils besought him that he would suffer them so he suffered them All which proues plainely that the Deuill can doe nothing without Gods suffering as also that God or Christs sending is nothing but suffering in this case And so this sending of Ashur is suffering Now for that of Iosephs brethren wee dispute not about Gods decreeing hee should goe into Aegypt for the preseruation of their liues c. but whether God decreed that their action in selling a mans Childe from him against the Lawe yea their enuy also in selling him * Act. 7.9 for I say Ioseph might haue come into Egipt by good meanes aswell as his Brethren did afterward they thought euill and did euil yet God turned it to good * Gen. 50.20 their thoughts Gods thoughts were contrary their thoughts were euill Iames saith no man is tempted of God Iam. 1. but to moue with euill thoughts is to tempt If all that come from the Father of Lights be good and this to moue by decreeing vnauoidably to these euill thoughts came from God then was it good and not euill but if their whole action was euill as it was then was it not of the Father but of this world 1 Ioh. 2.16 though God brought out of it goodnes who can bring good out of euill Lastly for that of our Sauiours death I acknowledge that God apointed him and gaue him to the Death for our sinnes * Rom. 5.25 8.32 and deliuered him or suffered to bee deliuered into the hands of the wicked by his determinate coūsell and fore-knowledge * Act. 2.23 with Chap. 4.27.28 but I deny that God determined appointed or decreed that the wicked should betray or murther him otherwise then by suffering them hee knew what they would doe to him and foretolde it long afore in the Scriptures and decreed to suffer them who if hee had pleased hee might haue consumed before they did it but he decreed not that they should so doe it for in doing thereof they were of their Father the Deuill who was the author of Murther from the beginning Iohn 8.44 and not Gods decree For might not God haue appointed some to sacrifice his Sonne CHRIST as he did Abraham to sacrifice his sonne Isaac and Israell their sacrifices which were types of him which might haue beene done without wickednes But hee could not appoint Iudas to betray him nor the Scribes and Pharises to murther him this was wickednes which God cannot appoint he cannot lye * Heb. 6.18 hee cannot destroy the righteous with the wicked * Gē 18.25 he cannot condemne the heyres of Promise * Heb. 6.17 and so cannot appoint Iudas and the rest to commit such horrible wickednes as they did euill cannot come from God euery good giuing cōmeth from him hee suffereth wicked men to doe those thinges which hee cannot doe himselfe for which cause men think God to be like themselues * Psa 50 2◠Thus you may see that although God determined certainly that his Sonne should be slaine yet he might haue beene slaine without sinne and therefore the betraying and murthering was not from God Wee acknowledge that God is omnipotent but wee say his omnipotencie is guided by his Iustice Omnipotency he can doe onely the things that pleaseth him which is Iustice and Equitie It is no part of Gods Omnipotencie to lye to destroy the righteous with the wicked to appoint and by an vnauoydable decree force men to betray and Murther c. these are not any part of Gods Omnipotencie but rather attributing that to the most holy and iust God which is proper to the Deuill Gods holy will is the rule of his Power and not his power the rule of his will he will not lye therefore I say he cannot lye Thus haue I shewed how God is said to doe a thing when he onely suffereth it wherein a principall Caluin agreeth with me vpon the Petition Lead vs not into Temptation Vrsinus pag. 1041. that the wicked execute the Iustice of God by sinning that commeth not to passe by any fault of God himselfe but through the proper corruption of the wicked and such as themselues haue purchased God neither willing nor allowing nor working nor furthering their sinne but in his most iust iudgement onely permitting it c. and Pag. 1042. The difference of the works of God and the Deuill c. is euidently confirmed by the Story of Iob cap. 1. 2. where God purposeth to try Iob but the Deuill to destroy him The same is likewise confirmed by the Story of Ahab 1. King 22. and by that Prophecie of the Apostle concerning Antichrist 2. Thes 2. where the Deuill seduceth men to destroy them and God will haue them to be seduced thereby to punish them and suffereth the Deuill c. And againe Lead vs not into temptation that is suffer vs not to be tempted aboue our power these are his wordes Ereu. Well let vs now proceed what answer you to the place of Amos 3.6 or shall there be euill in the Citty and the Lord hath not done it Odeg. I answer First I demand what they meane by euill if euill of punishment for sin as is apparant by the place and others * Deut. 29.21 then wee agree but if they vnderstand euill of sinne else why bring they this Scripture then I abhorre their horrible blasphemie If God doe euill of sinne then it first dwelleth with him and it cōmeth from him as it doth with all that doe it And herein they speake no parable but plainely that God doth all euill of sinne in a Citty oh the the patience of God to suffer such monstrous blasphemers who should attribute righteousnes to their Maker * Iob. 36.3 in stead of which they doe without all feare or shame make God the Author and doer of sinne in a Citty contrary to so many plaine Scriptures Iob 34.10.12 Psal 92.15 Psal 5.4 Iam. 1.13 Ereu. What say you to the place of Iohn 12.39 c. Therefore could they not beleeue because that Isayas saith he hath blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts that they should not see with their eyes nor vnderstand with their hearts and should bee conuerted that I should heale them Odeg. I say this these wordes being collected from Esa 6.9 and repeated in many places * Math.
on them that seeke him by the meanes that hee himselfe appointeth such finde Grace and mercy as Moses and not by our owne willing nor running Exod. 33. nor working as the Iewes Ereu. What is the meaning of the hardning of Pharaoh Vers 17. Odeg. This Pharaoh being a wicked man and hardning his heart against Gods Commaundements and iudgements Exod. 9 34. 1 Sam 6. euen as these Iewes Paul speaketh of did against CHRIST and his Gospell yea making his heart as an Adamant stone as others did Vers 17. Zach. 7.12 so that he would not let the people goe for his cruelty against Gods people in killing their Children and ouertasking them and in not letting them goe for these causes God hardned his heart that is as the holy Ghost explaines it gaue him vp to the hardnes of his owne heart as Psal 81.11 12. euen to Sathan who worketh hardnes of heart against God and his truth in all the Children of disobedience who when the word and Iudgements of God as to Pharaoh and these vnbelieuing Iewes is manifest to them and they dispise them that which was ordained a meanes of humiliation and softening the hart becommeth a meanes of hardning that which is of it selfe and to the belieuers the sweet sauour of Life becoÌ„meth to them the sauour of Death 2. Cor. 2.15.16 Rom. 7.13 and thus doth God harden the harts of the wicked by giuing them vp to Sathan to their own harts lusts to vile affections to reprobate minds RoÌ„ 1.24.26.28 Thus hee hath mercy on whom he will Vers 18. and whom he will he hardeneth his will being to shew mercy on such as Moses that seeke his fauour by his appointed way and hardeneth such as Phoraoh who hardneth their hearts against the same way as those Iewes did of whom Paul speaketh Ereu. How answer you these wordes who hath resisted his will Vers 19. Odeg. I answer them thus Vers 19. Paul in these wordes speaketh as in the person of one of these Iewes or declareth what these Iewes will answer to this Doctrine who hath resisted his will and why doth hee complaine For this was his will that wee should obey these his precepts of the Law which who so doth should liue in them and in sticking to the Law wee haue not resisted his will vnto which th'Apostle giues the answer that man must not plead against God to say why hast thou made me thus that is that I cannot obtaine saluation by the workes of the Law for God seeing the weaknes of the Flesh to obserue the Law * Rom. 8.3 sent his Sonne in the flesh for iustification to euery one that beleeueth prouing plainely to all that both Iewes and Gentiles were vnder sinne and that there was not one righteous by the Law Rom. 3. and therefore their cauill was vaine For Gods will was to saue all that seeke it by the Faith of IESVS and not by the workes of the Law which they did resist and so were iustly conuicted Now the aduersaries exposition of this verse is that God hated Esau so Pharaoh and all the reprobate before they were borne from which hatred he Decreed their damnation and because the will of God is declared to be contrary in the Scriptures therefore they call this his secret will against which will say they no man can resist but the most holy GOD declareth the contrary It is not my will that any man sinne they haue done that which I commaund them not neither came it in my minde c. * Ier. 32.35 neither is it my will that any sinner dye but that hee amend and liue and this I testifie as I liue â—aith the Lord * Ezek. 18. 33. Chap But if he will not amend but continue in sin as Pharaoh these Iewes others him will I punish in my iust Iudgement wherefore if any suffer iustly for his trespasse he ought not to accuse GOD as our aduersaries doe saying that God decreed him yeâ— by power compelled him to trespasse and so to suffer â— and say who can resist his Will Gods will is that all repent and beleeue the Gospell which may be and is resisted and also his will is that they who will not repent and belieue â—e damned which caÌ„not be resisted This his will is iust full of mercy and thus I haue sufficiently answered these words Ereu. What say you to these wordes Hath not the Potter power of the Clay to make of the same lumpe one vessell to honor another to dishonor Vers 21. Odeg. For the better vnderstanding of these wordes let vs reade the 18 Chaâ— Vers 21. of the Prophet Ieremie from whence th'Apostle hath these words And we shall see through the Grace of GOD that that making of the clay in the Potters hand is not in creation but in vocation the wordes are these O House of Israell cannot I doe with you as this Potter saith the Lord Behold as the clay is in the Potters hand so are you in my hand O house of Israell GOD is this Potter the House of Israell is the Clay And Vers 7. I will speake against a Nation or against a Kingdome to plucke it vp to roote it out and to destroy it That is to make it a vessell of dishonor But Vers 8. If this Nation against whom I haue pronounced turne from their wickednes I will repent of the plague that I thought to bring vpon them Again Vers 9. And I will speake concerning a Kingdome and concerning a Nation to build it and to plant it and so make them vessels of Honor. But Vers 10. If it doe euill in my sight and heare not my voice I will repent of the good that I thought to doe for them Therefore Vers 11. Thus saith the Lord vnto the men of Iudah and Inhabitants of Ierusalem Beholde I prepare a plague for you and purpose a thing against you returne you therefore euery one from his euill way c. This doth th' Ap stle apply to the thing in hand proclayming from this glorious Potter that all that seekes saluation by Faith and obedience to the Gospell as the Gentiles did he will make them vessels of mercy prepared for Glory but those that seeke it by the Flesh or by workes of the Law as the Iewes did he will make them vessels of dishonor prepared for destruction Thus doth God make vâ—seâ—s of Honor and Dishonor and not otherwise for in Creation hee made Man good and in vocation he saith As hee liueth he would haue him good by turning vnto him from his wicked way which if he will not then he maketh him a vessell of dishonor by bâ—inging vpon him as a iust recompence of reward dishonor and confusion and thus the Apostle alludeth to this Scripture in this place for hee wished the saluation of the Isralites whom God had planted a noble vine with the best plantes Esa 5. doing vnto it what he could doe
vnto it tying to him the whole house of Israell and Iudah Ier. 13.11 as a man tyeth his girdle to his loynes that they might bee his people and that they might haue a name and pâ—aise and Glory but they would not heare Yea crying out vnto them what shall I doe vnto thee how shall I intreat thee Hosea 6.4 yea sending his owne Sonne vnto them to turne them away from their iniquities and by faith in him to giue them saluation so many of the Isralites yea of the Gentiles as submitted vnto this his calling of Grace by Faith not by Workes they should be saued the rest should be vessels of destruction this he plainely affirmeth in Vers 23.24 Aske the Potter and he will answer thee that hee would be loath to breake any vessell but if it proue nâ—ught then hee will breake it The Husbandman planteth no Tree to be barren The Magistrate would not haue any of his Subjects to be Rebels but if they be hee will shew his wrath and make his power known in executing them If these thinges be good in men how much more are they good in God who saith I will not the death of a sinner but that he conuert and liue and I will not that any man be euill and therefore I forbid all euill but if any contrary to my will and commandement refuse the good which he might haue accepted and dâ— the euill which hee might haue left vndone then doe I shew my power ouer him in that I cast him away â—s the sh ards of a naughty pot and so I haue according to the proportion of all the Scriptures expounded these hard Verses of this 9 Chapter shewing how the potter makes vessels of dishonor and wrath and how they are prepared to destruction and how he maketh vessels of mercy prepared to Glory which in the 24. Vers he plainely declareth Vers 24. that the vessels of mercy are euen vs Vers 25. Whom he hath called not of the Iewes onely but also of the Gentiles as is written in Osea I will call them my people which were not my people and her beloued which was not beloued Vers 26. and where it was said vnto them yee are not my people there they shall be called the Children of the liuing God And of Israell hee declareth otherwise Vers 27.28.29 And for conclusion Paul declareth that the Gentiles the younger which followed not righteousnes Vers 30. haue attained vnto righteousnes euen the righteousnes which is of Faith Vers 31. But Israell the Elder which followed the Law of righteousnes could not attaine vnto the Law of righteousnes wherefore Vers 32. saith th'Apostle not because they were so decreed of God as the Caluinists teach but * Marke these wordes because they sought it not by Faith but by the workes of the Law c. confirmed also in Chap. 11. Vers 67 wherein he saith It is the Election of Grace not of workes and that Israell obtained not that he sought the reason is rendred because they sought it not by Faith but the Election hath obtained it that is the Gentiles seeking it by Faith What can be more plaine then this If any will be still peruerse or ignorant let them be ignorant Ereu. You haue very sufficiently explained this 9th Chapter to the Romans and to my full satisfaction haue resolued mee in euery difficult place thereof but now remaineth an obiection from Act. 13. So many as were ordayned vnto eternall Life beleeued Odeg. This is my answer That as the vngodly that turne the Grace of God into wantonnes are said to bee ordained to death or damnation * Iude 4. So they that receiue the loue of the truth and are obedient thereunto when they heare it are said to be ordained vnto eternall life * Mark 15 16. they that are willing to walke in the way to life are ordained to life and such doe beleeue yet are they not ordained onely for walking in the way of life the First cause of ordination to life is Gods free guift decreed afore the foundation of the world manifested in time through CHRIST whom hee sent into the world to saue all men yet with this condition that euery one that will haue this saluation must beleeue obey the Gospell as is before at large declared as for example A mercifull rich man proclaimeth in the time of dearth that whosoeuer standing in neede will come to his house they shal haue 10 shillings a peece to relieue their want so many as come haue the 10. s. yet their comming is not the first cause of their receiuing it but the mercy of the giuer but if they had not come to his house they shold not haue had it because the giuer will freâ—ly giue it to them that come to the place where he will giue it So that all that had it were ordained to haue it before they came but others were ordained to haue it aswell as they if they had come but they proudly reiected his bounty and would not come for it so are the Scriptures plentifull in teaching that God out of his free bounty before the world ordained to send his Sonne not to condemn the world but that the world through him might be saâ—ed and proclaymed in time this his bounty vnto euery creature vnder Heauen that whosoeuer would receiue this his Grace through beleeuing in and obaying his Sonne should haue it those that would not receiue it thus but would haue it by the Flesh or workes as did the Iewes should not haue it so that to conclude all that beleeued were before ordained to Eternall life they seeking it by Faith the vnbeleeuing were as much ordained if they had sought it by the same way but seeking it by another way vnto the which God had not promised it they were rejected and ordained to eternall death as elswhere I haue largely shewed that all were ordained to the Marriage aswell those that came not as those that came also in this place * Act. 13. at this time and in this company those that iudged themselues vnworthy of Eternall life were ordained to it as well as the other if they had receiued it as the other did as is testified Vers 46. * ⎠* Thus much of Election Of falling away Ereunetes I Now see clearely how all other places may easily bee answered concerning Election and I will trouble you no further in that The next thing I will question with you is whether a man may fall from this his Election there bee many Scriptures seeme to make against it Odegos I holde that as the Promise of Gods Election is Free without any desert in vs originally yet vpon condition of Faith and obedience to CHRISTS Gospell so the same free promise of Gods Election is continued vnto vs vpon continuance in the same condition from the which men may fall away as I will proue manifestly by Scriptures and then answer
faithfull Hymeneus was of the truth erronious Hymeneus was neuer of it Againe will any say that the Pope himselfe is an Antichrist in respect of his person or rather in regard of his Spirit or Spirituall power he hath Therefore all that this place proueth is that lying Spirits or Antichrists in mens persons went out from the truth and were neuer of he truth and therefore serueth nothing to proue That the Elect can neuer fall away Of Free-will Ereunetes I Confesse you haue plentifully proued that the Elect may fall out of their Election and haue sufficiently to euery reasonable mans satisfaction answered their obiections and I see it behooueth all men to make their calling and election sure by obedience as Peter teacheth and to worke out their saluation with feare and trembling Phil. 2. The next thing I desire to be satisfied in is what power there is in man to doe what God requireth In plaine tearmes what you hold of that which men call Free-will Odegos First I will relate what the Caluinists hold as the vndeniable consequences of their Predestination Also I will shew you what I hold and giue you my proofes and reasons from the Scriptures and then answere their obiections As I haue formerly shewed from their owne plaine words in Print They affirme that God is not onely the principall cause of all things but also the Author Knox. appointing all things to the one part and to the other by his Counsell And that the wicked are not onely left by Gods suffering but compelled to sinne by power which being so all may plainely see what followeth that it is not in man to chuse or refuse wickednesse for they are compelled by the power force and compulsion of Gods predestination to commit all those wicked and cruell crimes for the which they are either punished by the Magistrate or tormented in hell and if Gods predestination worke all in wickednesse and that by force and compulsion and that there be in man no choise then much more doth it in goodnes as violently worke all so that the Godly can neither chuse nor refuse goodnesse as the wicked can neither chuse nor refuse wickednesse Some of them indeed doe holde that Adam and so his posterity lost not will by transgression but that there yet remaineth freedome of will in all good Naturall ciuill morall and Iudiciall thinges but not in Spirituall and also they hold that Man still retaineth the Freedome of his will to euill asmuch as before the fall if not more Bastingius pag. 18. alledging Ambrose Propos dispâ— in Geneuâ— pag. 18. Man by euill was spoyled not of his will but of the soundnes of his will therfore that which in Nature was good in qualitie became euill and Barnard teacheth there is in vs all power to will but to will well wee had need to profit better to will euill we are able already by reason of our fall The which if they would stand vnto I would require no more In answer to the former I holde that theâ—e is yet left in man the facultie of will to chuse or refuse as I will make most plaine 1 By many Scriptures 2. By many vndeniable reasons 1. It is a thing will be granted of all that haue common sence that Election and choise cannot but be in libertie and we finde written in the Scriptures that euen in the workes of godlines câ—oâ—se is ascribed to men Moses saith Deut. 30.19 I haue set before you Lâ—e and Death therefore chuse c. And Iosua saith * Iosua 24.15 Chuse you whome you will serue and hee saith * Vers 22. You are witnesses against your selues that you haue chosen the Lord c. but after wheÌ„ they forsooke the Lâ—rd agaiâ— hee said vnto them * Iudg. 10.14 Goe and cry vnto the Gods whom yee haue chosen Againe the Lord willed Salomâ—n * 1 Kin. 3.5 to ask what he should giue him now Salomon waâ— pâ—t to â—is câ—oise hee might haue asked Wealth Riches long life c. yet be preferred Wisdome before them all and this choise so pleased Goâ— that he would not demaund these althoâ—gh he might for so the Lord said Vers 11. Because thou hast asked this thing and hast not askeâ— â— that with wisdome he gaue him all Dau d saith I haue chosen the way of truâ—h Psa 119.30 I haue chosen thy Commandements And the Lord by the Prophet Esa Esa 65.12 They did wickednes before mine eyes and chose the thing that pleased me not Esa 66.3 And they haue chosen their owne wayes CHRIST saith Luk. 10 4â— Mary hath chosen the best part Thus it is plaine that as chuse and cannot chuse agree together so doe these mens opinion agree with the Scriptures for such direct contrarietie is betwixt choyse and meere necessitie betweene violent compulsion and liberty that blacke and white may more fitly be coupled together in a subiect 2 In worldly things we declare liberty by saying if thou wilt obey thy Superiors thou shalt be rewarded if thou commit Treason thou shalt be hanged these are set before or declared to men to enduce libertie to embrace the good and eschew the euill In like manner in matters of God in very many places wee finde the same courses vsed If you walke in my ordinances Leâ—ir 26 â— c. â—sa â— 1â— c. yee shall eat the Fruits of the earth If yee consent and obey yee shall eate the good thinges of the Land If thou wilt enter into life keepe the Commandements And he that shall beleeue and be Baptized shall be saued hee that will not beleeue shall be damned and many the like Maâ— 19 1â— Mark. â— 3 Those that haue libertie to chuse or refuse in ciuill things we vse to threaten with punishments if they omit that wee would haue them do or do that we forbid them aâ— for example the gallowes for Theeues c. because they may liue truely if they will So God threatneth eternall Death to those that doe not obserue his sayings Luk. 13.3 If yee doe not repent yee shall perish If one be not regenerate by water and Spirit Ioh. 3.5 he cannot enter into the Kingdome of God He that obeyeth not the Sonne shall not see life Vers 36. but the wrath of God abideth on him If some cannot repent and others cannot chuse but repent to what end are these threatnings were it not madnes for 4. men in the top of a tree hauing a man tyed hand and foote in a corde at the roote of the tree to threaten him with death and all terrors if hee came not vp if they intended afterwards by maine force to haile him vp This is the opinion of the Caluinists that man lyeth so bound in the cordes of sin that he can doe nothing without the compelling Grace of God God must draw him vp without Free-will and liberty and he cannot resist that
is regeneration So that it is most plaine that euen in the worke of regeneration man may submit to it or hinder it God conuerteth no man against his will neither doth God force the will he onely bendeth the will by perswasions of promises and threatnings which man may submit vnto or dispise as before Ereu. What say you to that place of Math. 22. Compell them to come in Odeg. I say that power of compulsion was giuen to the seruants of the King and that was no other then by vsing strong arguments and perswasions through the power of the Spirit in them whereby they compelled or constrained the Gentiles to come vnto the mariage not by any violent working vpon their wills but perswading their wills by force of reason Thus is Lidia said to compell or constraine Paul to her house Act 16. â—5 not by vsing any thing else but strong perswasions and earnest intreaties Ereu. What say you to Ioh. 6. No man can come vnto me except the Father draw him Odeg. Reade the place and you shall see how the Father draweth vs vnto him not by any violent compulsion but by teaching for it is written in vers 45. Ioh. 6 4â— And they shall be all taught of God euery man therefore that hath heard and hath learned of the Father commeth to mee Thus God draweth not otherwise If he should not send his heauenly doctrine thus to draw men they could neuer come to Christ and therefore that any come to Christ it is by the Fathers drawing which drawing men haue power to put from them and resist as before hath beene proued Ereu. What say you to that place Phil. 2.13 For it is God that worketh in you both the will and the deede Odeg. God worketh all both in willing and doing wheresoeuer it is onely by his Word and Spirit perticularly the worke of regeneration hee worketh in man to will it and to doe it at which time man may submit vnto this worke of God and so be a co-worker with him Rom. 10.3 2. Cor. 6.1 or else he may resist this worke of God and put it from him as before hath beene largely proued And I desire it be obserued that some of the Caluinists granting that the vnregenerate hath power and will to resist hauing free-will to all euill as they say they grant the thing that we maintaine which is that God sending his Word and Spirit to worke our regeneration wee may resist it or not resist it If they affirme as some of them doe for they are deuided that the Elect though vnregenerate for so they imagine cannot resist then they hold the vnregenerate hath no more free-will to euill then to good contrary to their former opinion and to all the holy Scriptures and then is man depriued of all power to euill aswell as to good and God onely worketh both and that by compulsion wherin man hath no power to resist neither the good nor the euill Further it is confessed and it hath sufficiently beene proued that Adam in innocencie had not onely free-will but ability also to worke righteousnesse in the fight of his Creator but hauing sinned he lost not all will and power as is confessed and hath been proued but will and power to worke righteousnesse in the sight of God that hee lost and in stead thereof had a will and power to flye and hide himselfe from Gods presence but receiuing a proclamation from the Lord that his good pleasure was to shew him mercy in the promised seede and that he so loued him that he would not haue him perish but be saued here by is his will affected againe to seeke him euen by the loue and mercy of this good God who destroyed him not for his sinne but called him to his Grace and seeing his flesh vnable to please him sendeth him his Sonne whom if he will beleeue and obey he shall be made iust and righteous also the Lord setting before him life and death saluation through faith in Christ and condemnation through not beleeuing and vsing many reasons to the vnderstanding of man to chuse life and to auoide death Mans will is hereby perswaded to come againe to him from whom he runne away and to cry I haue sinned against heauen and against thee c. and so to submit to this Grace of God thus did God worke in Adam both the will and the deed not creating in him another will but changing his will from euill to good by reasons and perswasions this same did God in these Philippians and doth in all who haue no will nor power to come vnto him but God by the power of his Word and Spirit shewing him the benefit of life and the torment of eternall death and also that although of himselfe he cannot worke righteousnesse yet if he will beleeue in and obey Christ his Son he will in him accept his imperfect obedience and account him iust by this meanes and not otherwise is the will and deede wrought by God Thus much of mans will Of the Originall estate of Man-kinde Ereu. THis being the estate of men of vnderstanding which formerly you haue declared I now desire to be satisfied what is the estate of all Infants by generation that haue no vnderstanding whether they are in the estate of saluation or condemnation Odeg. I answer you that no Infant whatsoeuer is in the estate of condemnation of Hell with the wicked which I proue thus 1. Without sinne there is no condemnation RoÌ„ 6.23 Ezek. 18.4 20. 2. Without transgression of the Law there is no sinne 1. Iohn 3.4 RoÌ„ 5.13 It followeth then if Infants haue transgressed no Law there is no condemnation to them Ereu. I grant that without sinne there is no condemnatioÌ„ also without transgression of a law there is no sinne But had not Infants a Law giuen them in Adam Thou shalt not eate c and so Adam sinning they sinned in him to condemnation in hell Odeg. The Law giuen to Adam was Thou shalt not eat c In which is to be considered Adam had a life being when that Law was giuen but Infants had no life nor being as that time * Rom. 7. â— And the Law is giuen to them that knowes it and it hath dominion ouer a man as long as he liueth Therfore Infants hauing no being and so no knowledge nor being then liuing that Law had no dominion ouer them Ereu. But were not all men in Adams loynes and so hee sinning wee sinned Rom 5. Chap. Odeg. True it is we were in Adam but how not to bring any soule to Hell for the breach of that commandement Thou sh lt not eate for so the Lord hath said whose wayes are most equal All soules are mine both the soule of the Father and the soule of the Son that soule that sinneth it shall dye Yet as then that wicked Prouerbe was vsed The Fathers haue eaten sowre grages the Childrens teeth are set on edge and
14 c. are freed from the law and so sinne is dead in them but when the commandement comes * Rom. 7.8 cursed is euery one that continueth not in all things that are written in the booke of the law to doe them * Gal. 3.10 then they die in sinnes and trespasses * Ephe. 2.1 Verse 8. and must be saued onely by Grace in Christ through faith not of themselues it is the gift of God Againe none shall appeare before Christ to receiue iudgement but those that haue done workes either good or euill and that in the flesh * 2. Cor. 5.10 Reuel 20.12.13 Infants dying haue done neither good nor euill in the flesh Therefore Infants shall receiue no iudgement Ereu. You haue very satisfactorily answered me in this one thing more that much troubleth all men which is Psal 51 5. In which if you giue a plaine answere all else they can obiect is nothing worth Odeg. The words are Behold I was borne in iniquity and in sinne hath my mother conceiued me The question now is whether hee confesseth his owne estate or his mothers If his owne then thus he confesseth to God and desireth him in mercy to consider and behold him whereof he was made as Psal 103 14. of dust weake flesh vnable to resist the Tempter when the law came vnto h m through which weakenesse hee was thus ouercome in these horrible sinnes and thus weake flesh is called sinfull fl sh in which Christ came * Rom. 8.1 in that it is impossible for flesh to keepe the law when it comes Christ is said to be made sinne * 2. Cor. 5.21 not that he was a sinner no more Dauid confessing he was conceiued in sinne doth proue that by conception and birth hee was a transgressour If his mothers then thus either his mother Heuahs or else his mother that bare him and brought him forth whether it mattereth not much the chiefe thing being what this sinne of his mothers is I say it is that curse or punishment for sinne laid vpon her * Gen. 3.16 where the very words agree with these of Dauids I will greatly encrease thy sorrowes and thy conception in sorrow shalt thou bring forth c. so that Dauid doth not confesse his mother-sinne in this place but the punishment that was laid for sinne vpon the mother of all liuing and so vpon Dauids mother and it is frequent with the holy Ghost in the Scriptures to call punishment for sinne by the name of sinne as Christ bare our sinnes * 1. Pet. 2. â—4 and the wickednesse of the wicked shall be vpon himselfe Ezek. 18. â—0 and they shall beare their iniquities and the like and it is neither Dauids sinne nor his mothers he here confesseth to speake properly but his mothers punishment for the fall and his weakenesse through the fall And Dauid did not sinne in being conceiued and borne the soule is the subiect of sinne as before and as Christ teacheth from the soule or heart commeth wickednesse The body is but the instrument thereof Mat. 15.19 the soule comes from God the matter of the body from the parents the soule is very good comming from God the body hath not sinned till it be infected with the soule by transgressioÌ„ of a law and seeing they affirme that the very matter or substance whereof Dauid was made was sin and that this is it he confess th in this 51. Psal Obserue what wil follow of this their dreame The matter whereof all the sonnes of Adam is made is sinne but Christ one of the sonnes of Adam after the flesh was made of that matter therefore the matter or substance of Christs body was sinne It will not auaile to say he was coÌ„ceiued by the power of the holy Ghost that is true but what tho yet also Mary the virgine conceiued him of her matter or substance and if that be good to say that Dauid was a sinner because he was conceiued of his mothers substance and so borne why is it not also good to say that Christ was a sinner because he was conceiued of his mothers substance whose flesh and blood was no other then Dauids mothers and so borne but if it be wicked to say Christ was a sinner because he was conceiued of his mothers substance as it is so is it no lesse wicked to say Dauid was a sinner because he was conceiued of his mother substance seeing the substance of both the mothers was one the same 1. Cor. 15.39 And though the holy Ghost did wonderfully cause Mary to conceiue without the helpe of man yet did he not alter nor change Maries substance for then would it follow as some wickedly affirme that Christ was not made of the same matter and substance whereof wee be made And it is most apparant that wicked harlot Rome to aduance the high estimation they haue of Mary and because also they had inuented originall sin to be in all Infants which was onely their wicked inuention * Orig. sin dec in Concil Carthag therefore in the Counsell of Trent * Ses 5. cap. 1 de pec orig exempted her from sinne to establish both their wicked opinions therin Thus I trust all that shut not their eies may see the difference of the truth error in this thing be so satisfied in the truth that no turning deuice shall cause them to stumble again But if any notwithstanding what is said will not yet beleeue the truth in this I require them to shew by the Scriptures better reasons then they haue yet obiected to proue Infants to be in sin vnto condemnation in hell and when they haue done that let them also shew how they that haue sinned and are vnder condemnation of hell can be reconciled to God but onely by faith in Christ Iesus And if they haue sinned and can be reconciled to God by no other meanes but by repentance and faith in Christ Iesus then are they all left vnder condemnation not for any law that they haue broken for they could not breake the law before they were in forme and soule as before but for their Father Adams eating of the forbidden tree and so are damned for their Fathers sinne contrary to all these Scriptures Let not any thinke that this maketh any thing for them that because Infants haue died many times bodily death for the sins of their parents as the old world Sodome Gomorrah Corah c. that therefore they perish with the wicked in hell for of this other vnreasonable creatures as well as Infants haue alwaies had their portions all flesh must dye and death is losse to none but to the wicked for whom is prepared the torments of hell but vnto the godly and innocent death and all the afflictions of this life are not worthy of the glory that shall be shewed If any aske that if Infants be not vnder condemnation what neede they haue of