opposition if any stands not in the degree but rather beareth the sence of a preuention For as much as the Iewes from whom the old sacred records were originally deriued would not enter them into the Diuine Canon it could not but occasion many considerate Christians vtterly to cashere them For the auoiding heereof S. Augustine seeing they might tend to some good vse tells vs that albeit the Iewes did not receiue them as Canonicall yet the Church receiued them not vnprofitably if they bee read soberly He saith not that the Church receiued them into higher authority then the Iewes but as books which might serue to as good purpose if they were read warily amongst vs as they did among the Iewes Neither doth hee say Recipienda est Scriptura Machabeorum as implying an vndeniable necessity but recepta est non mutiliter as noting a voluntary acceptance vpon a probable end with th' addition of this Prouiso if they be read soberly which howsoeuer you otherwise deeme cannot be fitly spoken of Canonicall writ which is necessarily to be embraced and is alwaies profitable to the Church which euermore bringeth Sobriety to the reading thereof neither is it any lesse behoofull to the Church though it be peruerted by reprobates to their owne damnation But as for humane writings the case is otherwise they are then onely receiued profitably by the Church when they are read warily A good man by attributing too much to an vnwarrantable ground of which sort the sacred writ affoordeth none may make a faulty inference which mooued Saint Augustine to insinuate that there are rocks by which he would haue vs warily to saile Nick. What if wee admit for disputation sake that S. Augustine deliuereth this as his resolute opinion in Iabals sence I would gladly learne what reason hee can yeeld why this should ouer-sway the ioynt iudgement and consent of so many far more ancient Fathers who teach the contrary Iab i Pag. 59. Caluin doth allow him the style of the best and most faithfull witnesse of Antiquity how can hee then be excused from great temerity if heerein he erred Ma. Errare humanum est The spirit of God alone is free from errour The k It was lawful to contradict the Fathers and doubt of them Guido de Haeres c. 7. Church euen in his daies was somewhat clowded with the mists of superstition Had he not an Eagles eye he could hardly haue discouered those beames which Antichrist had then laid in the way It was hard if not impossible for one man to discerne euery mote which then houered in the aire of the Papall regiment Iab l Pag. 60. This sentence may suffice alone to giue any Iudicious eare to vnderstand your opposition with S. Augustine Ma. Wee honour his memory as a blessed Saint from whose pen the Church of God hath receiued ineffable good and wee account it not the least part of our happinesse that for one seeming testimony which you wrest to serue your owne turne wee are able to shew a million to right our cause Iab Can you deny that S. Augustine taught our Catholique doctrine concerning the point of Merit m Pag. 62. Doth he not say that as the wages due to sinne is death so the wages due to righteousnesse is life eternall And againe The reward cannot go before merits nor bee giuen before a man be worthy thereof yea that God should be vniust if he that is truly iust be not admitted into his kingdome Can any Catholique speak more plainly then he doth of Merits Min. These places doe not any whit crosse our doctrine against merit The Analogy which he makes betweene Sinne and Death Righteousnesse and life consisteth not in the quality of Desert but of the n Deest gratiae quiâ— quid meritis deputas Nolo meritum quod gratiam excludit Bâ—â—n super Caen. Ser. 67. effect Augustine saith not that the wages of righteousnesse which is Heauen is as due as the wages of sinne which is death th' Analogy is in regard of the consequent effect to signifie that heauen the wages which is due to righteousnesse shall as truly bee bestowed vpon the faithfull as Hell or Death shall bee inflicted vpon the wicked For if wee consider th'equality of desert and condignity there is according to the doctrine of S. Augustine a threefold disproportion One in respect of the Rewarder whose rewarding of sinne with eternall torment is the proper act of Iustice in it selfe Whereas his rewarding of Righteousnesse vpon them whom he hath accepted vnto Grace is only the Iustice of his mercifull o In illis opera saa glorificant In â—â—les opera non sua condemnant Fulgen. ad Mon. lib. 1. promise Secondly in respect of the Subiect for the Sinne which a wicked man committeth is properly his owne but the righteousnesse of the Regenerate is the gift p Opera bona habemus non ex nobis nata sed à Deo donata Fulg. ibidem of God so that the reward of death is more properly due to sinne then is the reward of life vnto righteousnesse Thirdly in regard of the obiect because the sinne of the wicked is perfectly imperfect but the righteousnes of the most godly is imperfectly perfect that is but a stained goodnesse wherefore there cannot be an equall condignity in both Ma. We grant that the reward cannot goe before merites nor bee giuen before a man bee worthy thereof but Iabal must learne that these merits are q Mors eius meritum meum Aug. in Manual c. 22. Christs by the Imputation whereof we that are altogether vnworthy of our selues are made through Gods gracious acceptance of his sonnes obedience worthy of this reward Otherwise Non sunt condignae passiones our greatest sufferings are not worthy of the least degree of glory which shall bee reuealed to the sonnes of God r Ephes 2. v. 8. Gratia enim saluatis estis saith the Apostle For you are saued by Grace through Faith and that not of your selues Min. Fulgentius makes the case plaine in this golden sentence Å¿ De praedest 〈◊〉 Montâ—tum lib. 1 Vnus Deus est qui gratis et vocat praedestinatos et iustificat vocatos et glorificat iustificatos and againe t Ibid. Sicut gratiae ipsius opus est cum facit iustos sic gratiae ipsius erit cum faciet gloriosos u Aug. in Psal 83. Debitorem se ipse Dominus fecit saith S. Augustine non accipiendo sed promittendo non ei dicitur Redde quod accepisli sed quod promisisti God hath made himselfe a Debtor not by receauing any thing from vs but by the passing of his promise vnto vs wee say not to him Render that thou hast receiued but giue that which thou hast promised And the same x Tract 3. in Iohan Father Non pro merito acciptes vitam aeternam sed pro gratia Thou shalt not receiue life eternall for merit but for grace Nick.
speakes better then hee is aware in terming this distinction the fiue fingers For the hand of Gods mercy whereunto it hath reference in extending grace to his chosen children hath fiue fingers indeed First there is Salus decreta the pardon decreed in the eternall Counsell of God Secondly there is Salus oblata Grace offered in the ministery of the word Thirdly there is Salus recepta the Pardon receiued by faith which is the gift of God Fourthly there is Salus obsignata the Pardon sealed in the due Administration of the Sacraments And lastly there is Salus consuÌ„mata the pardon proclaimed at their perfect admission into eternall blisse All these fingers doth the Lord ordinarily lay on the heads of his elect before they can be throughly blessed Iab h Pag. 73. You preach very learnedly as you thinke though God knowes to little purpose You can bring no expresse testimony of Scripture that may giue the least colour or probability to this your new fancy Min. The purpose I confesse suits not with your humor which debarres it not from agreement with the truth My drift was to let you vnderstand that there belongs i Nunc recreamur continuo iâ—â—amine medicaminis tunc frucmur aeterna plenitudine sanitatis Fulg. de Praedest ad Monimum lib. 1. more to the absolution of a penitent then you seeme willing to conceiue As his sinnes are loosed on earth so shal they be loosed in heauen Our pardon is fully and absolutely purchased k Agnus occisus ab origine muÌ„dâ— before wee were and it is ours potentially in the purpose of God who hath decreed to giue it vs but as it is not sealed vnto vs actually till wee beleeue so neither do we fully and plenarily receiue the benefit and effect thereof till our bodies shall arise at the great and generall day of the Lord l 2. Thes 1.20 When hee shall come to be glorified in his Saints to be made maruellous in all them that beleeue When the booke of m Reu. 20.12 life shall bee opened and when God shall iudge the n Rom. 2.16 secrets of men by Iesus Christ Though wee haue heere o 2. Cor. 5.19 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The word of Reconciliation yet are we further to expect p Rom. 2 5. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the day of declaration Now are we the sonnes of God saith q 1. Iohn 3.2 Saint Iohn but yet it doth not appeare what we shall be Iab This is a new deuise not back'd by the authority of any Father which therefore may iustly be suspected r Pag 72 73. If all sinnes must haue double pardon one in this world another in the next why should not all sinners haue a double condemnation one in this world another in the next Min. The pardon is one and the same the difference is onely in the manner and time Quod nunc sancti credunt tunc videbunt saith Å¿ De praedest ad Monimum lib. 1. Fulgentius That grace and mercy which the Saints do now beleeue they shall then heare and see And againe Iste est in homine ordo diuinae redemption is c. Vt nunc iustificatus credat quod tunc glorificatus accipiat So that besides that assurance of Remission which we call pignus iustitiae the pledge of righteousnes there is also that which S. Paul stileth Coronam iustitiae the Crowne of Righteousnesse which is yet reserued for vs in the heauens S. Augustine coÌ„menting vpon these words of the Psalmist t In Psal 36. Educet quasi lumen Iustitiam tuam He will bring forth thy righteousnesse as the light and thy Iudgement as the noone-day hath these words Modo abscondita est iustitia tua In fide res est et nondum in specie Thy righteousnesse which presupposeth Remission is now hidden apprehended by faith and not as yet by sight Nondum vides quod credis cum autem caeperis videre quod credidisti tunc educetur in Lumine iustitia tua Thou dost not yet see that which thou beleeuest but when thou shalt begin to see that which thou hast beleeued then shall thy righteousnesse formerly apprehended bee brought forth in the light Promissorem adhuc tenes exhibitorem expectas To make this point yet more cleere hee proceedeth in this wise Quale sit iudicium tuum adhuc non apparet In isto saeculo quasi nox est Quando educet Iudicium tuum velut meridiem Cum Christus apparuerit vita vestra c. What thy iudgement is yet â—t appeareth not In this world it is as it were night when will hee bring forth thy iudgement as the noone day when Christ your life shall appeare This is one of those reasons which the u Vide Thom. in Sup. 3. part Qu. 8â— Art 1. Fathers alleadge why there should be a generall Iudgment notwithstanding the particular doom which the soule receiueth at the houre of death that so the sentence of Benediction and Malediction which was before priuate and in part might be then more generall and complete Haue you forgotten S. Augustines ground x De ciuit Dei lib. 20. ca. 14. Quaedam diuina vis aderit saith he qua fiet vt cuncta peccata in memoriam reuocentur There will be a certaine diuine power by which we euen y Peccata â—â—storum appâ—rebunt in Coelâ— Stel. in â—â— c. 21 the elect shall be then put in mind of all our sinnes Wherfore seeing sinnes formerly cancelled shall bee there remembred and z Oportet ad hoc quod iusta sententia appareat quod omnibus sententiam cognoscentibus merita den erita 〈◊〉 Thom. in Sup. 3. part Quaest 87. Art 2. published it is no new fancy to thinke that the pardon formerly graunted shall bee then also publiquely ratified and acknowledged Iab You mistake your Card and seeme not to know the very principles of Christian Diuinity a Pag. 74. That is not the day of mercy but of iustice to giue to euery man according to his workes not to forgiue any man his wicked workes That shall not be the generall Gaole Deliuery as the Knight surmiseth but rather then shall be the generall fiâ—ing of the Gaole with all sinners to be locked vp in misery euerlasting Ma. The Gaole deliuery of which the Knight speaketh doth glance at your supposed Purgatory which by your owne confession shall bee then broken and annihilated Implying that this Implication of future Remission if any may rather be vnderstood of that generall publication of pardon when your imaginary flames shall bee cleane extinct as if our Sauior had said they shall neither haue the seale of redemption in this world nor the sentence of absolution in the world to come Besides if you be wel aduised you may further remember that the Children of God shall then bee all deliuered from the b 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Apoc. 7. v. 14. bondage and misery of this world
which could not subsist without these and the like Iudiciall proceedings But why their soules should be stopt in the passage to eternall blisse the Cinders of original Concupiscence being quite extinguished by death and the Guilt of their former sinnes cleane defaced by the merit of Christ there can no reason be yeelded from the warrant of the word which debarreth the strong man from surprizing and the gates of Hell from preuailing against them which die in the Lord. So that the light of these Illustrations is not so easily ecclipsed by the interposition of your Duskish conceit Ma. They that z Lett. pag. 87 die in the faith haue peace towards God they that haue peace towardes God are iustified by Christ they that are iustified by Christ are free from the Law and being free from the Law Quis accusabit Who shall late anie thing to their charge Iab I could a Pag. 109 cast your Elect into Hell from the first step of your Ladder For they that die in the faith haue not peace towards God except their faith be ioyned with good workes Your Protestant faith is so light-footed or light-headed rather to beleeue that you shal be saued and your Charitie so heauie-heeled to doe good workes by which men must be saued that an eternitie of torments may passe before your workes ouertake your faith Ma. This shewes vnder whome you serue b Apoc. 9.11 Abâ—ddon is your Tutor and hee hath a destroyer a bad one indeede to his Pupill I thought you had not beene so neare a kin to that euill spirit mentioned in Saint Lukes c Luc. 4 35. Gospell who brake the strongest chaines casting the poore Demoniack downe sometimes into the fire and sometimes into the water All that Sathan himselfe could doe was to d Mat. 4.6.8.9 perswade our Sauiour to cast himselfe downe but now wee haue met with a stronger then hee one that will vndertake to throw the Elect from the highest pinnacle of their assured peace with God into the fire of Purgatorie Min. The amitie that is betweene a Iustifying saith and good workes is such that the linckes of their indissoluble coherence cannot possibly not in thought admit any separation Yet doe you contrarie to the expresse text of Scripture labour a Diuorce making a Nullitie of our peace towardes God albeit wee die in the faith by intruding a needlesse exception of Ioynt-workes with which a liuely faith is alwayes in separably accompanied Were he not worthie to be laughed out of his fooles Coat that should say the Sunne doth not ripen and refresh the fruites of the earth except his light be ioyned with heat The Case is not much vnlike there being the same impossible supposition that a Christian faith should be destitute of good workes as that the Sunne should want heat He that dieth in the faith hath not only peace with his owne conscience arising from the testimonie of his godly conuersation but also peace towards God through the merit of Christ vpon whome hee solely and stedfastly relieth This peace towards God though it receiue augmentation of certaintie and degree from workes annexed yet hath it the prime being and fundamentall Subsistence from the vertue of the object which is apprehended Nick. Hee forgets Saint Paules rule of not iudging when hee takes vpon him to bee the Auditor of our workes If he would put on his Holliday eyes at his owne home he may happily there discouer as great penurie of charitable deuotion as hee layeth to our charge You may know these Pharisaicall Trumpeters by their puffed cheekes swolne tongues and Rheumatique mouthes they are full of ostentation but pluck of their sleeues and you shall find their armes withered and their handes as drie as the Pumice-stone which will sooner grate off the skin then yeeld a drop of anie comfortable moysture Iab You say your e Pag. 109.110 Elect are free from the Law If you vnderstand it in Luthers sence then though they commit whoredomes or murders a thousand times a day they need not care the bloud of Christ freeth them from the Law Ma. Luther had great reason to attribute as much to the bloud of Christ as your Ianizaries doe to the Pardons that are granted by the Pope Yet is hee farre more sparing hee giues not encouragement to anie subiect to lay violent and sacrilegious hands vpon his naturall sacred and anointed Prince with assurance that the bloud of Christ will absolue him from all danger of the Diuine Law for so horrible a fact according to the tenour of your immature Sinne-kindling and Soule-killing Indulgences Hee only administreth a word of comfort in due season to rayse vp distressed consciences from despaire assuring them by the authoritie of our Sauiours Proclamation if by true repentance and a liuely faith they come vnto him their f Ne formides adhuc â—â—â—pes reliquiest â—uit I hanne Euangelista latronum daci Euseb lib. 3 cap. 17 burthens shall be eased their thirst refreshed and their Soules freed from the condemnation of the Law I see you haue not yet left your old Spiders qualitie Were you not of a venemous constitution you would not draw so presumptuous a Conclusion from so sweete and justifiable a Cordiall Iab You should vnderstand g Pag 110 freedome from the Law in the Catholike sence that the spirit of Christ maketh that yoke easie and the burthen light that in the Spirit of loue wee may keepe the Law with great ease as Saint Iohn saith His Commaundements are not hard But I dare say your Protestant faith hath little of that Spirit that dilateth the heart to runne the waie of Gods precepts that it will neuer bee able to get vp this Ladder Let them be indeed iust let them bee Saints that keepe the Law Min. Quis idoneus ad haec The Spirit I confesse helpeth our infirmitie the more wee grow in grace the higher wee climbe yet as long as the weight of flesh hangeth about vs there is no such facilitie of climbing this ladder of the law as you plead While wee are here vpon this glassie Sea our feet are set in slipperie places still subiect to slide One horse h Supeâ—aâ—euadere ad auras Hoc opus hic labor est will draw faster down a hil then ten vpward But if your Saints can so easily keep the law how do they need so often confession which was not only ordained for veniall but also for mortall sins Is not this your supposed easinesse in fulfilling the Law the next way to make Purgatorie of no vse Iab Doubtlesse i Pag. 10. the iustest man falleth seauen times a day Who can say that his heart is pure from vaine and impertinent thoughts His tongue cleane from idle and vnprofitable speech His handes not defiled at least with emissions in Gods seruice Doe you see your iust cannot be in this life without dust Ma. Modo ais modo negas What is now become of your
that the garment of Christs sufferings is giuen vs ready made there was neuer any doubt made by anie duly considerate Christian That Oblation beeing made once for all can neither bee augmented nor diminished in regard of it selfe though in regard of vs the benefit is either more or lesse as we beleeue and expresse the vertue of our faith by the mortification of the flesh and holie conuersation of life His Wardrope affoords euery beleeuer a complete robe of righteousnes he that will not take the paines to fit it to his soule is not worthy to weare it As we grow in grace the warmth of this garment increaseth The neerer we come to his sufferings the greater shall we be in his glory not that wee deserue the least degree but because it hath n Coronat nos Deus in misericordia et commiserationibus Psal 103. v. 4. pleased him for the kindling of our frozen zeale to propound the greatest prize to the best runner for so saith S. Paul o Rom. 9.16 Nec volentis nec currentis It is neither in him that willeth nor in him that runneth Iab I feare the Knight p Pag. 116. playes not the Taylor aright but cuts out of the Scripture fauourable sentences for himselfe as this is Blessed are those that dye in the Lord that do concerne others whose liues do not much sute with q Interdum vulgus recte videt est vbi peccat Horace Diues daily banquetting as his seemeth to doe Let him take heed he find not a garment of another suite set on his back when his Soule shall depart more naked of good deedes out of the body then his body of Garments vnto the Graue Nick. My Master is beholding to you for your extraordinarie care But if he haue not in all this time learned to play the Tayler aright by my consent hee shall not be bound Prentize to such a Botcher who cannot teach him to thred his needle aright When you fall once to trifling I perceiue your Vessell runs low Purgatorie is out at the elbowes Ma. I would gladlie heare how you answere the Knights arguments Hee disputes in this manner r Lett. pag. 81.82 The Soules in Purgatory are either punished for those sins which Christs bloud hath wholly purged or for those which he hath not wholly purged If for those which Christ hath wholly purged then there must needs be iniustice in God to imprison them whose debts are fully discharged If for sinnes that hee hath not wholly purged then it followeth either that he is not the Lambe that taketh away the sins of the world or that mans satisfaction must goe hand in hand with Christs merits Iab He buts ſ Pag 117 against Purgatories walls with his horned arguments which if it haue any force against Purgatory will also breake open the gates of hell that the damned may come out For what debts are they kept in prisons Doubtlesse for those for which Christ did offer his pretious bloud which was a sufficient redemption for the sinnes of the world Is God then vniust to imprison them in the darke Dungeon for euer for whose sinnes Christ paid a full and rigorous ransome Min. Hath not this Dilemma brought you to a sore plunge If you come vpon either side you are sure to bee gored wherefore to get out of the reach of both you are faine to creepe downe to hell for an answere And what is your purchase The death of Christ though it is sufficient for all ex abundantia meriti yet is it not sufficient to saue all ex defectu fidei by reason of the want of Faith whereby that his sufficiencie of merit is particularlie to be applied What is this to those that are in Christ who die in the Lord Iab It is Christs t Pa. 118. holy will that in sins committed after Baptisme the whole guilt of pain bee not euer forgiuen but somtimes he reserueth a cōuenient task of temporal paine Ma. This you speak confidently could you proue it as soundly the day were yours If temporall paines be reserued how is the sin wholly forgiuen Dare you say that God who is perfection it selfe performeth the workes of his mercy which surpasse all the rest by halfes Are mortall sinnes with their punishments wholly remitted and must the greatest part of those that are veniall be reserued The cause being taken away the effect ceaseth If the paine of mortall sinnes be remitted then much more the penaltie of veniall slips Iab We daily u Pag. 119. see and feele that punishments and penalties may remaine though the sinne bee forgiuen What are death hunger thirst and other miseries of this life but effects of originall Sinne Is not sinne forgiuen vnto Christians in Baptisme Yet those that are baptized endure the former penalties God pardoned DAVIDS sinne but did all temporall punishment cease together with the sinne The sinne was remitted with a But thou shalt endure these and these afflictions because thou hast made the name of God to bee blasphemed Min. These are not properly punishments proceeding from seueritie but Chastisements sauouring of mercie for punishments haue respect vnto a person obnoxious to the Law and to a Iudge not satisfied for the breach of the Law But these are rather the effects of corrupt nature then the x Tribulatio piorum non tam afflictiua quam amoris diuini declaratiua virtutis promotiua culpae futurae cohibitiua Aqui. punishments of the persons regenerate Otherwise you must confesse that the Blessed Virgin because shee died a naturall death was thereby punished for her original sin which you wil not easily be drawne to admit Were the Childe of God perfectly sanctified as soone as hee is justified then were your objection to some purpose but you must know that notwithstanding Sinne bee remitted yet Concupiscence still remaineth for the mortifying whereof these Chastisements are sent As it standeth with the wisedome y Omnia cooperantur in bonum of God to beat downe this rebellious Law of our members So is it disagreable to his iustice to z Ezek. 18.33 remember anie more the sinnes of the repentant yea such is his goodnesse that hee repenteth him of the euill that hee had intended So far is he from punishing that Sinne which he hath formerly remitted Neyther indeede is there anie proportion betweene temporall punishment and the sinne that is committed against an infinite Majestie As for that Chastisement which followed Dauids absolution it happened sayth Saint Augustine vt pietas hominis in illa humilitate exerceretur not that he might be a Imponit nobis poenam non de peccato sumens supplicium sed ad futura nos corrigens Chrysost Hom. de Poen punished but that his godlinesse might bee thereby proued It was not inconuenient that the Childe should die both in respect of Dauid that his watchfulnesse against the like sinne might bee increased and others admonished as also in regard
of those that were without that their mouthes might be stopped from blaspheming the justice of God Iab I will not b Pag. 119 stand to conuince you out of Scriptures nor out of Fathers only because the Knight stands vpon Athanasius whom he calls his Arbitrator and sayes that he will not affoord vs one sillable to saue our liues his ignorance shall receiue doome by his sentence euen in that verie Treatise Thus he writeth There is great difference betwixt Pennance and Baptisme he that repenteth ceaseth to sinne but still retaineth the c Ergo opera poenitentialia non sunt satisfactoria skars of his wound but he that is baptized putteth off the old man is then renewed from heauen and as it were borne againe by the Spirit of grace Doe you see how manie sillables this Father lendeth vs Ma. They wil scarce make a number I see not so much as a Cipher that can stand in your account He neyther nameth Purgatorie nor anie temporall punishment after the remission of the guilt of sinne Nay he rather seemeth to dash these conceits against the wall For if a man baptized bee renewed from Heauen and retaine no skarres then the plaister of Purgatorie may be cast out vpon the dung-hill as of no vse to those that continually make their repaire by a thirsting faith to those waters of comfort Obserue I pray you how strangely you goe to worke You haue made a great shew of exhorting vs vnto pennance and now you bring in Athanasius affirming that he that repenteth still retaineth the skars of his wound Time was when you could say In this d Pag. 115 penall Martyrdome namely the perpetuall victorie of our selues if you continue vnto death in the true Catholike Church I dare warrant you both from Hell and Purgatorie and grant you an immediate passage vnto Heauen How comes it now to passe that notwithstanding this penall Martyrdome there are skars and woundes still remaining May we be admitted to passe into Heauen immediately without these eye-sores in our soules You should rather for the effectuating of your purpose haue produced Saint e Lib. de poeni Augustines Panigyrick Poenitentia langueres sanat Leprosos curat Mortuos suscitat Or that of f De Laud. poen Cum homo compungitur Peccatum dispungitur Cyprian O poenitentia quid de te noui referam Omnia ligata tu soluis Omnia clausa tu reseras Omnia contrita tusanas Omnia confusa tu lucidas c. You speake of the Skars verie vnseasonably in my mind Min. These Holy Fathers may be easily reconciled Athanasius speakes of Pennance solely considered in it selfe according to the worke wrought and in this sence though a man giue his bodie to bee burned to satisfie for the sinne of his soule the skar of his sinne still remaineth The other two speake of Penance not as it is opposed to Baptisme but as it is conjoyned and made operatiue by the vertue thereof from whence the life and vigour of repentance is deriued So that Athanasius saies well that vnlesse a man be renewed from Heauen and bee borne againe by the Spirit of grace his pennance how great soeuer cannot doe awaie the skarres of his wound Iab I see not g Pag. 120 what else can bee imagined to remaine after pennance and not after Baptisme besides the guilt of temporall paine which wee must willingly vndergoe to satisfie for the sinnes after Baptisme which skars and wounds if we heale not in this life by plaisters of pennance they must bee scared in the next by Purgatorie fire Nick. Then must you bee sure to haue a turne in torrida Zona for Athanasius tels you that notwithstanding your penance you must stil retaine the skarres of your wounds Your better waie were to flie to the waters of Iordan where you shall bee sure to haue your leprosie fully cured then to trust to your owne penall satisfactions Now if you loue mee meddle no more with my Masters Arbitrator if you doe your Combe will be soone cut Ma. T is wel he wil now at length confesse that the guilt of temporall paine remaineth not after Baptisme It is not a quarter of an houre since he was of a contrarie minde Then h Pag. 119 death hunger thirst and other miseries were the penalties of originall sinne forgiuen vnto Christians in Baptisme Now he i Pag. 120 sees not what else can bee imagined to remaine after pennance and not after Baptisme besides the guilt of temporal pain But that the day weares away I would bee bold to aske him this question whether the vertue of Baptisme be not as great throughout the whole life of a Christian as it is at that moment when it is administred I will not so much vnder-value his sinceritie as to feare his deniall I dare say hee will not make the Sacrament of Regeneration lesse beneficiall vnto vs then the Mother Earth was vnto her Sonne Antaeus As oft as hee in the conflict with Hercules touched the earth his strength was renewed and as oft as wee bath our Soules in those medicinable waters by a Religious application of the bloud of Christ we are assured of the remission of our sinnes as well as if wee were at the instant baptized in that purifying Lauer. So that the guilt of temporall paine doth no more remaine after the pious application then it did after the first initiation Christ and his ordinances being the same Yesterday to day and for euer The cause taken away the effect ceaseth Iab This your k Ibid. Logicall Axiome faileth in a thousand examples The Sonne is an effect of the l Causasociata Father Cannot hee liue though his Father bee dead The fire causeth heat yet we see that heat doth remaine long time after the fire is put out That Principle is only true when not only the first being of the effect dependeth on the cause but also the conseruation thereof as the light of the Sunne which the Sunne doth not only bring forth but also conserue vanisheth away together with the same Nick. As I am a true Aristotelian I heard him not speake so wise a word this day The Sonne who is an effect of the Father may liue m Quatenus homo non quatenus filius though his Father bee dead And yet in these dayes filius pendet à patre in esse conseruari or else they would goe for the most part in thred bare coates Min. Wee doubt not but the Axiome admits many exceptions by reason of the diuers properties of causes some being efficient some materiall some formall and some finall Amongst Efficients some permanent some transient some principall some instrumentall some conseruant c. Yet must you not wind away with your Sophistrie There is a certaine Cause called Causa solitaria proxima adaequata of which sort is Sinne in regard of punishment for if the question be why man is punished it cannot possibly