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A81336 A collection of speeches made by Sir Edward Dering Knight and Baronet, in matter of religion. Some formerly printed, and divers more now added: all of them revised, for the vindication of his name, from weake and wilfull calumnie: and by the same Sir Edward Dering now subjected to publike view and censure, upon the urgent importunity of many, both gentlemen and divines. Dering, Edward, Sir, 1598-1644. 1642 (1642) Wing D1104; Thomason E197_1; ESTC R212668 73,941 173

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expectation Sir I am now the instrument to present unto you a very short but a very sharpe Bill such as these times and their sad necessities have brought forth It speakes a free language and makes a bold request It is a purging Bill I give it you as I take Physick not for delight but for a cure A cure now the last and onely cure if as I hope all other remedies have first been tried Then Immedicabile vulnus c. But Cuncta prius tentanda I never was for Ruine so long as I could hold any hope of Reforming My hopes that way are even almost withered This Bill is entituled An Act for the utter abolishing and taking away of all Archbishops Bishops their Chancellors and Commissaries Deanes Deans and Chapters Arch-deacons Prebendaries Chanters and Chanons and all other their under-Officers Sir you see their demerits have exposed them Publici odii piaculares victimas I am sorry they are so ill I am more sorry that they will not be content to be bettered which I did hope would have beene effected by our last Bill When this Bill is perfected I shall give a sad I unto it And at the delivery in thereof I doe now professe before hand that if my former hopes of a full Reformation may yet revive and prosper I will againe divide my sence upon this Bill and yeeld my shoulders to underprop the primitive lawfull and just Episcopacy yet so as that I will never be wanting with my utmost paines and prayers to Roote out all the undue adjuncts to it and superstructures on it I beseech you read the Bill and weigh well the worke This is the neerest Act that ever I have done for Abolition and if I suffer for this it is 〈◊〉 altogether undeservedly 〈◊〉 my profession here is to Root out all undue adjuncts and superstructures but to underprop the Primitive Episcopacy And as before I said a little addition to this Bill might have given us a good Reformation Take away the present Dioceses but state forth the future in the same Bill The heads of which forme shall anon be presented to you Section IX THe next passage of this nature was upon the same Bill whilest it stood as yet it stands in Commitment to the whole House Mr. Hide excellent well discharging that Chaire And this was the first which was distasted abroad Many have importuned me for copies but I have yet issued none out of my hand though it were spoken above seven moneths since 21. Jun. 1641. M. Hide YOu have here a Bill but such a one as is likely to be short-liv'd and not to grow into a perfect Act unlesse you please to adde therunto some very important very significant proviso's such wherein we may have or whereby we may be assured in another Bill to have a future government in roome of this that goes out I am confident the Lords will otherwise debate and dispute your Bil quite out of doors Sir we are all bound unto the goodnesse of his sacred Majesty God preserve him and his for it none of all our Bils none of our petitions this Parliament have miscarried in his royall hand but have beene all compleated with the Royall assent But the Ambition of some of our Prelates will not let them see how incompatible two severall contradistinguished functions are in one the same person And therefore there is left you neither Root nor Branch of that so good so necessary a Bill which lately we did send up and consequently no hope of such a Reformation as we all do aime at What sparke of hope can we then have that this Bill which strikes at Root and Branch both of their Seats of Justice there and of their Episcopall Chaires in the Church will passe as it is and without tender of some other government in lieu of this since the voyces are still the same which outed your former Bill Truly I professe my hopes are sad in this never had one Parliament so many great affaires never had any Parliament any affaire so great as this which we call the Bill of Episcopacy Certaine Sir it is the great Hope or the exceeding Feare of every man here and of all men abroad Many a time this Parliament I have heard and not unjustly that the businesse then in hand was of as great consequence as any had been agitated within these walls But in truth Sir to my apprehension neither Star-Chamber nor High Commission nor Shipmoney nor Straffords death nor Canterburies life are with me equivalent to the setling or unsetling of the whole nationall Church of this Kingdome We cannot answer to God or man if we doe not use our best and most vigorous endeavours for the peace of the Church we live in I should thinke this a happy day if we could so temper this Bill that it might walke fairely on through the house of Lords unto the King To this end and that we may not lose all by asking more then all I will be bold to offer to your consideration a provisionall addition or two Such as I hope may both satisfie us and secure our Bill by fit amendments Here was a little interception and then a long additionall to the Bill presented in writing for putting all Church-government into the hands of Commissioners in every Diocesse I proceeded Sir there is now offered unto you a large addition to your Bill longer indeed by far then the Bill it selfe It seemes to desire that a proportionall number of Clergy and Laity may be commissionated together for all ecclesiasticke jurisdiction untill a future government be resolved on I must confesse I am not satisfied with this way of Commissioners it would joy me much and satisfie me more if as one government goes out I could see another come in and that without an Inter-regnum of Commissioners We are resolved that the present way of government is unsufferable let it goe but let us have another This I conceive to be feisible and that in fewer lines fewer words then this additionall increment now offered to your Bill which in truth will make me like your Bill worse then I did before To this purpose I doe lay this ground A Church government we must have This is within these walls for ought I heare on all hands agreed upon and then by unavoydable necessity this government must be distributed into parts into certaine limits circuits and divisions of places wherein it is to be exercised Unto this being granted I do subjoyn three propositions and they are these First our present Dioceses are for the most part much too large too vast I desire therefore that the circuit for future Church government may be reduced to the common boundaries and limits of our severall shires The disproportion from thence objected shall be easily answered 2. Next in every of these divisions I desire that some choice able grave Divines twelve or more in a shire may be by the Parliament appointed to
thanks The preacher received injuries His suspension to be taken of The retracting and dissolving whereof ought to be as publike as was the inflicting thereof One word more I ask leave to adde and I hope I shall not therein erre from the sence of the Committee though indeed I received it not in command to be joyned to the Report This businesse M. White is spread into a wide and ample notice Two great Primats have appeared in it and that with different perhaps contrariant sences sences as distant as Lambeth and Armagh The Vice-chancellor saith that the Preacher was censured by the most Reverend Lord Primate of Ireland who heard him to be a bold or rash fellow for it Hereupon I attended that learned pious and painefull Primate and did read these words of the Vice-chancellour unto him His answer was that he takes it as an Aspersion upon him He remembers the Sermon and commends it This is an additionall to the Report and with this I leave M. Vice-chancellor and the Bishops Chaplen Fulham to the wisdome and consideration of this grand Committee Section VII MY next walk was in a hazardous way and although it was not so lodged in my memory as that in due season I could make use of it as I intended publikely in the House yet being since gone forth without my appointment into print I do now own it for my sence untill I be better instructed as I was promised long since by a Cathedrall friend of mine but do now despaire to see performed The Theam is that secular jurisdiction ought not to be held by such as are of the Clergy function {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} c. They raigned to themselves saith the Lord and not by me they have beene Princes and I knew it not The words of that short passage were these OUR Lord and Saviour blessed for ever being indeed a King Pilate his Judge seemeth to start and be in feare at that great title Although our Saviour had told him saying a My Kingdome is not of this world Pilate still in feare b sought to release him but more in feare of Caesar the King at that time of this world he adjudged the Lord of life to death yet honourably writeth his Title c This is Jesus the King of the Jewes This title he then was crowned withall when life and death divided his soule and body asunder that in a manner it may be said he never was King indeed untill he was out of this world If he who was our a Lord and Master had not this worlds royalty whence commeth that the Pope is Crowned and his Cardinals in Purple whence have our Bishops their Lordships and as themselves call it b Jura regalia their royalty and rites of Baronage It may prove a disquisition deep and dangerous yet I desire without envy to their pomp or persons to wade so farre as may satisfie a mind that loves truth and desires to be led by it and this with all possible brevity There hath been a happy and blessed reformation of our Church God send a better and a more severe reformation of our Church-men or else our Church is now in danger to be deformed again The state of this inquiry may be this viz. whether the Ministers of Christs Kingdome may receive worldly titles and execute worldly Offices and powers or more generally thus Whether a Clergy-man may semel simul be both a Clergy-man and a Lay-man in power office and authority over other men in both kinds Goe we to the fountain head c There was a strife among them the Apostles which of them should be accounted the greatest which of the twelve soever began this emulation of power Certaine it is that the two sonnes of Zebedee a James and John with their mother first presumed to come and aske the highest places of honour next to the very Throne in the Kingdome of Christ which Kingdome was conceited by them shortly after to be raised in the splendour of this world This is genuinely gathered from this very story generally confessed and clearly confirmed in the History of the Acts where the Apostles do aske our Saviour even after his resurrection saying b Lord wilt thou at this time restore again the Kingdome to Israel Therefore to these two brethren and their mother so much mistaken in the nature of his Kingdome he maketh answer c Ye know not what you aske He presently sheweth the entertainment of his Kingdome A cup to drinke of that many were like to pray might passe from them but they answer they are able to drinke thereof This their answer as it proved true in all the twelve Apostles so by the providence of God one of these two brothers d James was the first of the rest as some do gather who drank the cup of martyrdome and as some think John was the last of the Apostles Equals look awry on the ambition of their fellows These two were vaine in their high request and the other ten murmured at their presumption a They were moved with indignation saith Saint Matthew b They began to be much displeased saith Saint Marke But by this happy error of these two Apostles our Saviour takes occasion to instruct them and the other ten and in them all other Ministers belonging unto him how far different the pastorall care of his Church is from the power which governeth in Common-wealths Hereupon the Sonne of God calleth unto him all the twelve Apostles saying c Ye know that the Princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion c. d Yet know that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise Lordships c. e The Kings of the Gentiles exercise Lordships c. {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} But it shall not be so among you This is a statute not to be repealed This is spoken authoritative definitivè it is the determinate Law of a just authority A Canon ordained and irrevocably fixed by the wisdome of God Confirmed by an example above all argument f For the sonne of man came not to be ministred unto but to Minister g I am among you as he that serveth And before this he had taught them that the h Disciple is not above his Master i I have given you an example that you shall do as I have done to you verily verily the servant is not greater then the Lord This ministery being thus performed in humility and without worldly titles The Ministers shall be then exalted Our blessed Saviour in expresse words following saith unto them a I appoint unto you a Kingdome but addeth as my Father hath appointed me Now his owne Kingdome is spirituall or as himselfe said unto Pilate not of this world Let them then renounce temporall and they shall have spirituall honour But some of the Clergy would it seems confound both Kingdomes being ambitious