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A96210 Refractoria disputatio: or, The thwarting conference, in a discourse between [brace] Thraso, one of the late Kings colonels. Neutralis, a sojourner in the city. Prelaticus, a chaplain to the late King. Patriotus, a well-willer to the Parliament. All of them differently affected, and disputing on the subjects inserted after the epistle, on the dissolution of the late Parliament, and other changes of state. T. L. W. 1654 (1654) Wing W136; Thomason E1502_1; ESTC R208654 71,936 174

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Law and presidents he was enabled to do is an assertion so irrational as that I wonder not so much at their ignorance as their audacious language since 't is the known Law of the Land and by two Statutes of near 400 years standing ordained That Parliaments shall be call'd once every year and oftner as the emergency of affairs may give occasion why then it should rest in the kings onely power to call them and that his assent to a Triennial Parliament should be such a boon bestowed on the people surely may encrease the wonder since by our old Laws and the usuages of former times they ought not to be dissolved until all grievances be heard and redrest otherwise to what end or use were Parliaments Instituted which as one calls them are the Beasoms that sweep clean all the nasty corners of the Common-Wealth But observe the sad consequences of this absurdity for suppose the King would not call any Parliament in ten or twelve years together till his necessities inforc't him how then should the publick grievances be redrest and by whom shall the disorders and obliquities of the Church and Commonwealth be rectified Royalists Answer by the king alone or his Councel of State as the suprem Magistrate within his own Dominions A strange task surely for one man to undergo and more then that active Magistrate Moses was able to perform as we may see by * Exo. 18. Iethro's Counsel who advised to take into his assistance the Princes and best of the people to ayd him in the Administration of Justice to the Israelites and all that with the least in a populous Nation Well then let it be considered how many grievous enormities and disorders during that interval of ten years discontinuance at least of Parliaments were crept into the Church and State meerly through their disuse we have sorry cause to remember when through the pangs of the kings necessities the ill managery of the publick affairs the prodigality of the Court the corruption of all Courts of Justice the Judicature with the licentiousness of a dissolute Clergy inforc't him at last to cal the late Parliament yet how soon he endevoured by his many wiles practises to annihilate it nay by all possible means he could invent hindred their endeavors in reducing the Church and Common-wealth into order never ceasing to interrupt their consultations purposly to disorder and thrust all into a Chaos of confusion insomuch as to this day the Parliament have had their hands full to finde out the means how to reduce and settle things in that order as at first they might have been had not the publick affairs been obstructed and all reformation hindred by his onely means so to render them as odious to the future and as contemptible to the people as heretofore they were boloved and desired of them notwithstanding that at their first sitting down he promised to contribute his own Authority to theirs and to leave the re-ordering of all things amiss to their onely managery an overture so acceptable unto them as that in retribution thereof how willing and intentively bent they were in the midst and heat of their distractions to make him rich and glorious and how indulgently ready to cover his faults in the recovery of his honour at home and his reputation abroad none unless blinde men or besotted but may remember But the truth was he could not brook any Rival with himself in the Government pursuing to the last his design of absoluteness so long that in the end the Parliament was inforc't not to retain any longer such a Rival as a King amongst them but rather chose to estate the people in the same peaceable Government as we see it now established then to imagine themselves able to better it by retaining of Kingship Of the Kings Prerogative in granting of Pardons to Murtherers and Fellons WE now come to that Prerogative or rather lawless usuage of our Kings in granting their Charters of pardon to Murtherers and Fellons condemn'd by the Laws of the Land 'T is confest that it hath been practised by all or most of our Kings though as it may be supposed rather permissively then by vertue of any Law extant but by what warrant in Justice they have assumed such a Soveraign power to themselves will be the question for by Gods Law 't is absolutely forbidden Yee shall take no satisfaction for the life of a murtherer which is guilty of death but he shall be surely put to death Numb 35. 31. and vers 33. Ye shall not pollute the Land wherein ye dwell for blood defileth the land and the land cannot be cleansed of the blood that is shed therein but by the blood of him that shed it Thus much briefly may suffice as to Gods Law Now as to the Laws of England the King cannot pardon a Murtherer or Fellon condemn'd by the Laws of the Land without a plain breach of those Laws and his Coronation Oath for Anno 2d Edward the Third it was by Act of Parliament ordain'd that Charters of pardon should not be granted but onely where the King may do it by his Oath And further amongst this Kings often breaches of the Laws this very particular of his frequent granting of pardons to Murtherers was complained of in open Parliament and the King by three several * 4. Edw. 3. I dem 16. Acts was restrained in those cases but how faulty both the late Kings were in pardoning both Murtherers Fellons condemn'd by the Laws is too well known and how guilty and insensible the late King was of shedding of innocent blood three Kingdoms have lamentable cause to remember Of Wards Ideots and Mad men AS to the Kings Prerogative in taking of Wards and their Marrages it hath been granted him by Statute Law as hereafter shall appear and as to Ideots incompos mentis and madmen or such as have by accident fallen into destraction for the king to assume to himself their estates doubtless there is no Law for it as I can remember extant otherwise to dispose of their estates but an accompt to be given to the next Heir at Law and this of late years was resolved by Mr. Calthrop his own Aturney in the Court of Wards in the case of the Widdow of whose husband being burnt with powder at a muster in Moorfields dyed his wife for grief falling distracted the King gave her estate to one of his * Mr. Ramsey servants a Scotch-man but she having many children and good friends they petitioned the King therein and in the end he was pleased to retract his grant as to the whole of the estate but with this proviso that Ramsey should have the use thereof during the Widows life in case she continued incompos giving security for the repayment to the children but the Gentlewomans friends found it unsafe to trust so great an estate as 30000. l. in Ramseys hands and therefore with great difficulty they drew
Ramsey to accept of 3000. l. ready money to to be quit of him Of the Kings assertion that he was not accomptable for his actions to any but to God alone AS to that odious position or rather Tyrannical assertion both of the Fathers and the Sons that they were not accomptable for their actions to any but to God alone doubtless 't is an impious position and in the next degree to blasphemy and cannot be without repentance forgiven of God nor forgotten of men and those of their subjects which felt the effects thereof Should we longer insist on this Theam and produce proofs that Kings for their irregularities and Tyrannies have in divers Kingdoms been call'd to account they would amount to a Volumn The Justice of Arragon the Ephori amongst the Lacedemonians the Senate of Rome the Parliaments of England and Scotland will soon evince and put this question out of doubt for Kings as well as subjects both by Gods Laws and mans are under the Law and in this kingdom and many other well regulated Soveraignties they have been often over-ruled withstood in their exorbitancies sued at Law and evicted and some deposed expeld and sentenced to death and should it not be so Subjects would be no other then inanimate slaves sure we are Almighty God never impowered Kings with such absolute Soveraignty that might enable them to trample on their subjects without controule Saul made a rash vow as a Law to the Isaelites that none should eat any food all the day until the evening but he should die Ionathan being then absent not knowing thereof had dipt his rod in a Honey-comb and tasted it but being told of his Fathers Law he answered the people My Father troubles Israel and indeed such troublers there are amongst kings howsoever Ionathan was sentenced to death but the people withstood the king and swore that a hair of his head should not fall and they rescued him in the face of the king certainly should not there be some one other power in a kingdom to curbe and controule the exorbitancies of irregular kings for few of them are Saints no man should be exempted from their oppressions and therefore Bracton delivers it as the law of the Land that in such cases the Barons or Parliament ought not onely to withstand oppressive kings but to call them to account for their misdemeanors which may suffice to show how much the two late kings were mistaken in this their Tyrannous assertion Now Gentleman Royalists these Soveraign Rights as you would have them so often treated on utterly dissonant to the Laws of the Land whereunto particularly I have briefly made answer are those goodly Prerogatives wherewith you would have invested the late king as his indubitable birth-rights and inseparables of his Crown for which you still constantly aver he was compeld to fight and your selves with him to uphold them where I must by the way remember you of a time when he shamed not to * Vide The Kings Coyn at Oxford divulge it to the whole Nation that he fought for the Protestant Religion the Laws of the Land and Priviledges of Parliaament for he was not to seek wherein to please the people and win them to his cause though never so unjust when as in truth he fought against all those three and so long as untill he could fight no more but by what law or reason other then his own none may better know then your selves which as well as infinite others that opposed him have felt the fruits of your unadvisedness the effects of his obduracy his cunning and crafty fetches to attract friends for backing of an unlimited Soveraignty to which had he attained it would have been no other then too heavie a burthen for him to bear a sting in his own conscience a sore in yours which you will all finde whensoever it shall please God to open the eyes of your understanding and enable you to see how you have bin decoyed in with Oathes Protestations and hopes of preferment made the instruments of your own Invassalage This if you believe not to have been the design yet you may finde it legible not onely in the claims and pretences he made to those illegal and irrational Prerogatives before recited but more apparently figured in that bloody Rubrick of a continued War which he so long waged to be absolute master of them and consequenly over all the free people of England Thus have I shewed you how invalid the grounds are whereon you continue to insist in justifying the late king and your selves how dissonant and contrary to the Laws usuages and Statutes of the land such was the wisedom and providence of our ancient Parliaments in all their enactings evermore to prefer the common interest before the kings though they failed not to gratifie them as they found them compliable to the redress of the publick grievances with many Royal immunities as we may finde them registred in the Statutes at large on the Title of Prerogative some whereof I think fit here to present to your view that so you may judge whether Sir Walter Rawly was not in the right who avoucheth that few of our kings but have gotten ground and improved their Soverainties meerely by their Parliaments as I verily believe none more then the late unfortunate King had he been pleased in imitation of Queen Elizabeth to have complyed with the late Parliament But as to his Prerogative of Wardships and Marriages they were first conferr'd on our Kings 17 of Edw. 2d their primer session 52. Hen. 3d the tuition of Ideots and distracted persons 17. of Edw. 2d 32. of Hen. 8th but with several proviso's of accompts to be made to the next Heirs of Ideots and the children of him that was incompos mentis As to wracks of Sea Whales c. they were given by Parliaament to Edward the Second the 17 of his Raign Felons goods the 9 of Hen. 3. power to make Justices of peace 27. of Hen. 8. the Legitimation of the Kings children born beyond the Seas 25. Edw. 3. Tonage and Pondage to Edw. 4. pro tempore yet granted to every of his Successors by the meer indulgence of their Parliaments though the late King challenged it as his own right I may not omit farther to inform you that this Nation hath not been so much abused and deceived by any one proficient in our Laws as by that false and jugling Judge Ienkins who in his Lex * Lex Terrae a most vile and fraudulent peice Terrae by his accumulation of several Statutes insinuates and endeavors to make the Kings power absolute and consequently the people mee● Slaves and Vassals alledging this and that to be the Law of the Land which is not or ever was taking his Authorities and Authors by piece-meals curtaling the Statutes in their sense without the explanation of their meanings and intents whereby on my own knowledge he hath deceived and prevailed on the
Vice-Roy-ship put to death and massacred ● not so few as 100000 of the Natives amongst which the Counts Egmont and Horn with others of the Nobility were the chief which withstood his Tyranny and stood up in defence of their immunities which the King of Spain by power would have taken from them which was a just cause given to the people to revolt both for safegard of their lives and priviledges which the four great Dukes of Burgandy suffered them to enjoy so that on a right understanding of the Hollanders case which was just and but reason that when they could not obtain right from the King upon their many Petitions and complaints of the Tyranny of his Ministers they could do no less then endeavor the preservation of their lives and fortunes And therefore under the conduct of the Prince of Orange they seized on divers of the strongest Towns and the people unanimously fell in with the Prince and ever since manfully and fortunately have defended themselves But in the late defection of the English with the Parliaments raising of Armies against their Soveraign Lord there is no manner of similitude with that of Holland or any such cause given or ground of the peoples defection since I presume you will confess that not so much as one guiltless man during all the late Kings raign hath been put to death unless you object and instance in those which by the fatality of the late War befel both parties which you know to be no other then fortuna de la gu●ra not the Kings Tyranny or the least desire of his that a drop of innocent blood should have been spilt and that which was was in his own necessitated defence But I pray take the case as now it stands between the present King and your States then you may soon see the difference for in confirmation of the Collonels assertion I dare affirm the King hath ten friends for one to those on whom the States may rely as firm and fixed to them since his late Majesty was put to death and that major number you may be sure on'● are all his in body and soul and do utterly detest that his Royal Father and ● himself should be so unjustly cut off and excluded of his birth-right and by whom think you but by an inconsiderable part of the representative the Souldiery and a handful of the people their 's adherents and therefore I say that the King on a right estimate of his party upon the least turn of the wheel will have a surerer and a stronger side then possibly the States here can have Patri Doctor in this your last reply I observe some notable particulars first you approve of the justness of the Hollanders defection yet you say that it parrallels not with this of the States here and change of the Government the reasons you have given for justifying the Hollander I confess are most true self preservation being just and allowable by Gods Law and mans But that now you should defend their cause which none of your said party ever did till of late is somewhat strange unless it be for that as you believe they are secretly engaged in the Scotch Kings Cause and yet you condemn the late Parliament for defending themselves and their liberties against the late Kings Tyranny which you shamefully endevor to excuse and would quit him from all blood-guiltines● To which I answer That had you thought upon your own instance of 100000 of the Natives massacred by the Tyranny of the Spaniard it would have put you in minde of a million of people throughout the three kingdoms slain and murthered by the meer Tyranny Plots and practises of the late King of which you take no notice but after the wonted manner of all Royalists you justisty his innocency so that to the worlds-end you give occasion to the Parliaments party to rip up the faults of the dead and cause them to display all his Falshoods frauds breaches of Oaths and Protestations But as to your assertion That the major number of the people here are for the Scotch Pretender in body and soul is in part granted you yet therein you extremly delude your self for the odds in that major number will little advantage him or his party since the major power lies evidently in the lesser number which are for the States what then will it avail a prince unexperienced to lead a great yet an undisciplin'd Army against a lesser number but well disciplin'd valiant and armed Souldiers though you cannot be ignorant that the States Armies are very strong and numerous in all the three Nations As to your denyall of the similitude and parallel I say on the same reasons that the Hollanders took up The Hollanders case and of the States here al●ke parallel arms in defence of their liberties the people here did the same for defence of themselves and their Representative so that the parallel on the actions of both States holds and is alike save only in the ●nanimity and universal promptitude of the Nether Lands in their joyning and uniting of all their Forces with the Princes * Orange retinn●e t is most true the parallel in this holds not so fully for I must confess the State of the matter and manner of the revolt of a part of the people from the late King is different remains doubtful what may fall out in the issue in respect that the other major part of the people are conceived still to wish well to his Son the present Pretender and that all the three Nations stand in a kinde of distracted condition in regard that they are divided into parties sides factions fractions fects schisms and opinions which I acknowledge may sooner mar the work of the States now in being then they are aware of But in a word more to the point that the major number of the people are for the Scocth Pretender I say again that that number considered as they are a naked awed and dejected bulk of discontented animals signifies little or nothing compared with that power of which the States here are possest neither in humane reason can we see how or by whom they can be dispossest But let us on all hands suppose that the present Pretender shall land again in England or Scotland as of late he did where you know he was beaten there and at Worcester and forc'● to fl●e for his life again suppose he comes in with a n●merous Army of French Dutch Lorrainers Germans Sweeds Dants together with all the prescribed Cavaleers and all these united with a good party of Scotch and Irish admit them to be in all 60000 fighting men which will be too great an Army to be transported without a very powerful Navie such numbers you 'l grant cannot stay long there unless they mean to eat one another well then you will say they may instantly march into England as of late they did and not unlikely in two or three several
●or acknowledgement that any fault was in himself until he was a Prisoner but evermore laid all the blame on the Parliament 6. That in this long persistance he had wearied and beggered all his friends and assistants at home and abroad to the desolation of three flourishing Kingdoms by the continuation of his Hostility to the destruction of a million of poor Innocent souls without any remorse of so much blood spilt more then of one man his wicked * Straford Instrument 7. That when he protested most and to the height of imprecation the Parliament at last found by the Testimony of his own Letters under his hand-writing that he meant nothing less and more contrary then to his usual Protestations 8. That neither all the Honors Mannors and Lands of the Crown or his own blood without true repentance could be a sufficient expiation to God or recompence to his subjects for the infinite bloodshed rapines and dilapidatins made on the Natives of three Kingdoms 9. That such was his insensibility of bloodshed that the many Lords Gentlemen and infinite others of inferiour quality slaughtetered in his bloody quarrel he made no other reckoning of them then this viz. that they suffered no more then of duty they were bound to do for their King which he avouched on the death of the Earl of Northampton 10. That those unjust pretences which he made under the notion of his Royal Prerogatives viz. the Militia power of War Peace Leagues Treaties Array of the people his negative Voyce in all Parliaments pardoning of Murderers and Fellons condemned by the Laws of the Land were all at his only disposure whereas by the known Laws of the Realm they have been onely entrusted and conferr'd on our Kings by the indulgence of the people in their Representatives as hereafter shall manifestly appear 11. That all his Treaties with the Parliament for peace were persidious and his Propositions evermore umbrated under ●pecious pretexts subtilties subtersuges and mental reservations as 't was evident in that at Colebrook and Vxbridge and more apparent by his own Letters to the Duke of * Vide The Kings Letters to the Duke of Rich. mond with others to the Queen Richmond viz. Not to forget to cajole well the Scots and by that at Oxford by Registring in the Councel-books his calling them a Parliament with mental reservations though not ex animo so acknowledged yet summoned by his own Writs and often so esteemed and call'd by himself and acknowledged to be a legal Parliament by his own mungril Conventicle at Oxford 12 That in all his Declarations and Expresses to the Parliament he evermore seemed to have a tender regard both towards them and the people when he onely intended his own interests with the advance of the Soveraignty to absoluteness by the power of the sword and to convey his designs to his Successors as in the instance of the * Vide One of the Kings Expresses where he yeelds the Militia during his own life but not sor his Sons Militia is most perspicuous when he perceived that the Parliament would no longer trust so dangerous weapons in his hands 13. That some of his best friends suspected him to be too much vers't in the Florentine Principles as indoctrinated by a French and Italian party constantly resident in his own Court and stickled on by the in●usions of the Queen-Mother the Daughter both which had gained a great interest had chiefest influence on his Concels and as'tis well known was wholy governed as the Queen lifted and at last his inclinations so strictly tyed up as that they were not subject to any other alteration then as she prescribed which was a Rule to whatsoever he undretook 14. That he was not wanting to himself for promoting of his arbitrary designs to make use of Machiavels principle Divide impera evermore to sow divisions and to cherish any dissention arising between the Parliament and their friends thereby to ruine them by themselves Thus Gentlemen according to your desires I have given you an accompt of those Reasons which have been given me wherefore the Parliament enterprized on the change of the Government by cutting off the King and his Posterity the premises being so true and undenyable that they satisfied me and prevailed so sar on my belief that I conceive the Parliament could not otherwise possibly have secured the Nation from farther ruine as also that their resolutions therein were directed by the special hand of God considered together with the and great constant charge incident to Monarchy the often pressures and oppressions of the subject through the Tyranny ambition and prodigalitie of most of our Kings the two last having beggered and impoverished them most of all others on which considerations the Parliament in reason of State and as the state of the controyersie then was between them and the King they found it much better to quit themselves and the people of Regal Government and to change it into a Republick as a more safe and cheaper Government rather then any longer to hazard the common liberty on the Rule of any one Prince whatsoever especially not to trust those of the Sotch Nation all our Histories and the Parliaments sad experience having taught them that of late years the Soveraignty by the ambition and artifices of both the late Kings was strain'd and tentered up to so high a pitch that it would not stoop to a lower power then that of absolutenes Now more particularly to answer your Querie as concerning the King of Scots the two Dukes with the rest of the late Kings loyns it seems likewise that the Parliament knowing them to be the Sons of that father who had more wasted the Land then all of the Norman Race before him they had small hopes left them that any of the same line would be much better being tutor'd afore-hand by the Father and at present residing in a French Academy which if admitted to the Government in all likelyhood would be no other then the cause of more blood more charge trouble misery and sorrow to the people very few of our Kings having given the Nation any great cause to be over-much enamoured with their Governments but most of the best much repentance through their Tyrannies and oppressions Prel Sir I profess you have given me fuller satisfaction then I could expect and I believe that you have taken the right measure of the Parliaments foot with the true reasons wherefore they have not onely cut off the Father but excluded all his Discendants onely in the point of their changing the kingly Government into a Republick as more secure and cheaper for the Nation this is a riddle to me for lamentable experience enforms us that all the oppressions and grievances of the people by all or most of our Kings and those so much upbraided and caft in the face of the late King I dare affirm amounts not to the fisth part of the charge and