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B21542 A musick-lector, or, The art of musick (that is so much vindicated in Christendome) discoursed of by way of dialogue between three men of several judgments the one a musician and master of that art, and zealous for the Church of England ..., the other a Baptist ..., the other a Quaker (so called) ... / written by Solomon Eccles. Eccles, Solomon, 1618-1683. 1667 (1667) Wing E129 22,469 30

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sin because he is born of God And John said he should have boldness in the Day of Judgement because as he is so are we saith he in this Life Bap. But doth not the Apostle say We and others speak after the same manner Qu. Yea for instance James said We as well as John In many things WE sin all But James was not in the many things but in the one Seed the Anointing and could sin no more than John And again he said We For saith he with the tongue we bless God and with the tongue we curse men made after the Image of God But did James Curse men Mu. God forbid For I believe that James was a very honest man and would not Curse men Jam. 3. 9. But pray Friend why did Paul say The good that I would do I do not and the evil that I would not do that do I Qu. Truly Friend that was a good state to cry out being under the sense of a body of sin and to feel sin exceeding sinful I verily believe there was such a day with Paul but the Lord brought him out of that state as he said For the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus hath set me free from the Law of sin and death 'T is so Rom. 7. 24. 8. 2. Bap. Why do you Quakers hold falling away For once in Christ and ever in Christ and so sin past and present and to come is done away Qu. How can Baptists fall away from the Truth that are not come to it or fall from Christ who are not in Christ For I testifie in the Spirit of Truth that there is as great a gulfe between you Baptists that are not in Christ and those that are in the Truth as there was between Abraham and Dives But they that are in Christ and do abide in Christ are his Disciples But they that are in him and do not abide in him they will be cast forth as a branch and so it withereth and men cast it into the fire saith Christ Jesus John 15. But if thou couldest make that good That sin past present and to come is put away thou wouldest be a friend to the Ranters and to the old Apostates and so make the sayings of Christ and the Prophets of none effect But thou and they will find it otherwise except ye repent And I know also though I bear you no malice but wish that you may be delivered from wrath to come and that you may come to the Righteousness of Christ by true repentance towards God and faith through our Lord Jesus Christ there is an antipathy in you against the truth of God and Gods friends called Quakers For in times past I had been delivered out of Prison had it not been for a Baptist-Chair-Man But Paul was in the same condition when he was Saul for he thought verily that he must do many things against Jesus of Nazareth which thing I did in Jerusalem and many of the Saints did I shut up in Prison and when they were to be put to death I gave my voice against them Acts 16. 6 10. And this I say in the fear of the Lord not sparing any whoever they are that are and shall be found workers of Iniquity they must depart from him although they may be called Quakers yet if they go from their stedfastness and from the Truth and become such as forsake the assemblings of themselves together as some do and have done such are gone from their first Love and have damnation Yea and if such do not speedily return and witness repentance they are in danger to sin against the holy Ghost for such Crucify unto themselves the Son of God and put him to open shame yea such trample under foot the Son of God and count the blood of the New Covenant an unholy thing by which they were sanctified Notwithstanding such did taste of the heavenly gift and of the power of the world to come Such were in the dayes of Old who were called The Sons of God And the Sons of God went in to the Daughters of men and were drowned with the wicked Gen. 8. 2. Ezek. 16. 22. and 34. 7. Heb. 6. 6. and 10. 25 26. Mu. But truly Friend 't is pitty that so many good men that are in England and other parts who fear God for I am perswaded that there are some good men among the Baptists and Independants the Presbyters and Episcopal yea and Papists too that are very strict men and serve God instantly and what are they all cast away because they are not Quakers Qu. Why call'st thou them good there is none good but God and they that are taught of God and do hear what the Spirit of Truth doth say to them and obey it and such their praise is not of men but of God But as to the fear of the Lord that is very precious God will bring such to the Truth from out of all the barren places For God is no respecter of persons but in every Nation he that feares God and works Righteousness is accepted of him I say such will God bring to his Everlasting Truth as he did Cornelius But as for the generality of those men thou spakest of They have a zeal of God but not according to knowledge For there is one thing that God doth require and they despite that one thing so their Prayers cannot be heard Rom. 10. 2 3. Mu. Pray what is that One thing which makes them uncapable of acceptation for methinks 't is great pitty that so many good men as I call them should not be accepted Surely you judge too hardly Qu. I dare not daube with untempred morter for where they are I was viz. in Performances in Ordinances in Family Duties in Hearing in Reading in Prayers in Fastings in my own Will and all this was Will-Worship but when that One thing came which is needful I became very poor and needy and I do find and therefore do testifie for God that while men are in their natural state they cannot please God nay all men rather are displeased at that of God in their own hearts though they may think themselves never so Religious For Paul said That he thought verily that he was to do many things contrary to Jesus of Nazareth Well but when I came to bend my mind to that of God in me which is Christ his pure Law in my heart shewed sin to be exceeding sinful and then I began to learn to be a fool insomuch that I durst not give thanks for the Victuals that were set before me Psal 39. 2. Rom. 7. 13. Mu. Truly then you were unworthy of it in my judgement for we must give thanks and praise God for all his Benefits Lord what sad People are you Quakers I did never hear such a word before Qu. Ah Friend Gods wayes are not like mans wayes neither are mans teachings like unto God's teachings for when the Lord comes his Commandment is
thou and learn of that Woman and go sweep the house and light the Candle that thou mayest find the lost Groat or Pearl Christ Jesus in thy heart and be not faithless but believe This is in love to you Baptists who are loytering away your precious time for that which never did nor can make perfect Acts 1. 11. Luke 15. 9. Bap. Perfect Why it is a very great question to me whether ever any man was perfect in this Life saving Christ himself nay or ever can be 'T is true indeed you Quakers do hold such Tenets but I do not believe it therefore prove it me by Scripture if you can from Genesis to the end of the Revelations See I have given thee the whole Bible to prove it but you Quakers deny the Scripture Qu. Thou hast given me Scripture room sufficient that 's true but to say the Quakers deny the Scripture in that thou beliest the Innocent Job 4. 7. Bap. Well I have given you Scripture-room enough but I believe you cannot do it for I have searched the Scriptures as well as any of you Qua. But thou mayest erre not knowing the Scriptures nor yet the Power of God Noah was a Just man and Perfect in his Generation Gen. 6. 9. Here was a Just and Perfect man approved of God himself And again God gave testimony of Enoch That he pleased God for he walked with God and was not for God took him and before his translation he had this testimony That he pleased God Gen. 5. 24. Heb. 11. 5. And again the Lord justified Abraham after he had said unto him Walk before me and be thou perfect and Abraham did so for God bore testimony of him and said Abraham obeyed my Voice and kept my Charge my Commandments my Statutes and my Laws Gen. 26. 5. Yea verily and Abraham was called The Friend of God And again God bore testimony of Job That he was a perfect man that did fear God and eschewed evil Job 1. Now Friend Here are four men whom God bore witness off What hast thou against them And David was a man after Gods own heart and God bore witness of him that he failed in nothing saving in the matter of Uriah the Hittite 1 Kings 15. 5. And who did ever go beyond him in his repentance Yet after this he did witness a perfect state For said he God is my strength he maketh my way perfect 2 Sam. 22. 33. And again I will walk within my house with a perfect heart Psal 101. 2. And King Hezekiah said Lord remember now I beseech thee how I have walked before thee in Truth and with a perfect heart Isa 38. 3. And saith David Mark the Perfect man behold the Vpright the End of that man is Peace Psal 37. 37. And again The Lord hath not seen Iniquity in Jacob nor Perversness in Israel as thou mayest read Numb 23. 21. And again They that are in Christ Jesus are New Creatures I in them and they in me perfect in one John 17. And Be you Perfect as your Father which is in Heaven is perfect Mat. 5. And saith the Apostle We speak wisdom to them that are Perfect 1 Cor. 2. 6. 2 Cor. 2. 11. Who shall lay any thing to the charge of Gods Elect Rom. 8. And saith Paul That we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus Col. 1. 28. Ephes 4. 12. Col. 4. 12. 1 Thes 3. 10. 2 Thes 3. 17. Heb. 7. 19. Heb. 10. 14. Heb. 12. 23. Heb. 13. 21. Jam. 2. 22. Jam. 3. 2. 1 Pet. 5. 10. 1 John 4. 18. Rev. 14. 5. Mu. Truly Friend Baptist we are all out of the way we have spoke too much by hearsay of them that they do deny the Scriptures I would you had not said so But I see the poor Quakers put up much wrong for we have had very hard thoughts of them and they have been derided and mocked and hated of many insomuch that they have been punished to death many of them but for my part I shall be silent hereafter for I see they have been misrepresented And although we have said No man can be Perfect in this Life yet who is able to withstand these sound Scriptures and I have heard many say That a man may come to be as wicked as the Devil himself but t●uly I do believe that God is above the Devil yet I do not excuse my self for I am a grievous sinner and never look to come to such a state as to be Perfect in this Life Bap. Why no. For the righteousest man that is sins seven times a day Yea John himself said he was a sinner or else he would not have said We for the word we implies himself as well as they But if we say we have no sin we deceive our selves and the truth is not in us Qu. Do not bely the Scripture nor the Spirit that gave it forth for holy men wrote as they were moved by the Holy Ghost and it no where saith That the righteousest man that is sins seven times a day But Stand in awe and sin not And as for John he was a holy man a Divine and could not sin but he wrote to Children first that they might have fellowship with them who were Apostles But they being Children had not fellowship with them who had fellowship with the Father and with the Son Jesus Christ because they were subject to sin And besides Children are apt to sin and to think themselves better than they are which made the Apostle say this If we say we have fellowship with him and walk in darkness we lye and do not the truth Mark For this I do affirm That if John had said he had been a sinner he had lyed for no sinner hath fellowship with God For He that commits sin is of the Devil and God hath no fellowship with Devils But he that is born of God doth not commit sin And John was born of God as he said though he came to his own yet his own received him not but to as many as received him to them gave he power to become the Sons of God and John did receive him who were born mark not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man but of God Yet the Apostle did use a condescending word to the Children in saying We. But let all men take heed how they call that common which God hath cleansed Yet this I say in the truth of God That if any shall say they have no sin when Gods Witness in them doth condemn them for sin they then make God a lyar and we are all sensible that God will not clear the guilty But if we confess our s●ns he is just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness And again If we shall say that we have not sinned we lye and do not the truth But he that is born of God sinneth not for his s●ed remaineth in him and he cannot