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A32898 An old apostate justly exposed his treachery to the Holy God, his truth and people manifested, his great wickedness and uncleanness (which, by false covers, he has endeavoured to hide) laid open to the shame of him, and all his abettors : in a short answer, or some brief remarks, upon a very scandalous book lately published, stiled, The spirit of Quakerism, and the danger of their divine revelation laid open, subscribed, Henry Winder : also the nameless publisher therof, as justly reprehended for his enmity and great malice, in abusing an innocent people, by heaps of most gross lies, slanders, base insinuations and inferences, frothy and scurrilous scoffs and taunts, so void of Christianity, that probably no man, with a name, would undertake / by Thomas Camm. Camm, Thomas, 1641-1707. 1698 (1698) Wing C396; ESTC R21826 31,372 63

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For when Lust was conceived in us it brought forth Sin and when Sin was finished it brought forth Death c. The Lord made known himself unto us both by his Inward Working in us and by his Messenger unto us Margaret Bradley who is a Faithful Servant of God and a Lover of our Souls who hath Travelled in pain for us c. The Lord Reward her for her Faithfulness between the Lord and us as no doubt but he hath Rewarded her already Ah! you Beloved of us we do this Acknowledge and Confess that we have been such a grievous Burthen and Shame unto you in giving so great Occasion to the Enemy c. Besides you were even pricked to the Heart for us Now we are unworthy and also ashamed to come into your Congregations or into the Assembly of Friends those which we have so grievously Sinned against c. We intreat you if you can find so much Favour and Love in your Hearts towards us as to receive us into your Congregation if it be but into the Entry of your Houses where you meet together to wait upon God c. This out of one of their said Papers now hear also what follows taken out of the Second beginning thus viz. Be it known unto all People unto whom these Presents shall be read That I H. Winder and Ann my Wife do acknowledge and confess before the Living God and unto all People That we have Sinned and done that which we ought not to have done in suffering the Temptations of Sin in the Flesh to overcome us and lead us out of the strait and narrow Way which leads to Life c. So this know all People that it was not because the Quakers Judgment or Doctrine or way of Worship is False that it caused us to fall from them But our fall was of our selves and their Judgment their Doctrine their way of Worship and Faith is Acceptable with the Lord we do Faithfully Believe it and also Acknowledge it c. He hath called us to Repentance For he would not the Death of a Sinner but rather that he should Repent and Live c. I was afraid and hid my self five days but my Covering was too narrow but the Word of the Lord came to me again saying Hide not thy self nor be not Rebellious any longer For I the Lord fill Heaven and Earth with my Presence therefore confess thy Sins and Repent and forsake them c. Then I fell down at the Word of the Lord Trembling Fasting and Praying Weeping and Mourning before the Lord three days c. Let all People take Warning by me to call to Remembrance their former Sins and Transgressions which they have committed before the Lord God for he fills Heaven and Earth with his Presence and nothing can be hid from him c. Let the Wicked forsake his Ways and the Unrighteous his Thoughts and let us turn unto the Lord with penitent Hearts confessing the Evil of our Doings c. Thus far out of the said two Papers faithfully taken out which if any shall question I hereby profer such if they please to read them at large And let it be noted Reader that upon the 15th of the 1st Month commonly called March last past those two Papers out of which I have taken what is above-written was then intended to have been shewed to both H. W and his Wife but he not being met with the said Ann his Wife did then own them to be their own Papers and that she Writ them with her own Hands And did also then own the Preface Narrative and Postscript of that Book called The Spirit of Quakerism c. to be her Husband 's And being further queried why they should put forth such a Wicked Book she answered Ah! we were put upon it by several else we had never done it but would not tell who they were though then desired only confessed that Mr. Gillpin wrote down all things thereof as they were Transacted And the said Ann H. W's Wife querying then of our Friends whose Names are after Subscribed as Witnesses whether we intended to answer their said Book our Friends answering Yea it would be Answered to which she replyed And then will you lay us open to the World c. Witnesses hereof William Grenhope William Greenhow John Bowstead Richard Atkinson I shall now add what is so Notoriously known in the face of the Neighbourhood that though the said H. W. be greatly hardned yet I presume he cannot have a face to deny relating to their great uncleanness for which they were denyed of us c. First the said H. W. had her that is now his Wife so great with Child in his first Wife's dayes that there was but about six Weeks betwixt the Death of his first Wife and the Birth of that Child Now Reader be pleased to compare what is before taken out of their own Papers and what is added as a demonstration of their great Wickedness and Uncleanness that their Papers have relation to and for which they were denyed of our Friends with what I have in short before cited out of their own Book viz. that God should choose him viz. H. W. to be his Instrument to Fight this Battle c. And when I consider what Persons our Saviour chose for his great Apostles c. But being Conscious of our perfect Innocency we made our Appeal to the Searcher of all Hearts c. Again we know no Guilt c. Again a Burthen Intolerable had I not been Supported by a God of Truth and a clear Conscience c. And then Reader after such comparing the One with the Other and due Consideration thereof I shall leave it to thee if thou be such an one as hath the Fear of God before thee to judge whether this our Adversary H. W. is like an Instrument chosen of the Pure Holy God or in any respect like the Apostles of Holy Jesus fit to be dignified by appearing on God's behalf Can be Conscious of perfect Innocency or can as such make his appeal to the Searcher of all Hearts can know no guilt Can be supported by a God of Truth and a clear Conscience or no And whether it be not great Impiety and Blasphemous in him so to say considering his Circumstances as before And whether it doth not bespeak and declare his Conscience to be Seared as with an Hot Iron or no Ah surely the Righteous God will Rebuke him for his Abominable Uncleanness and Impiety Hypocrisie and make him and all his Abettors Examples in his Wrath If they Repent not Further let the Reader observe that the said H. W. in the first Page of his Narrative saith That it was in the Year 1673. and Harvest time when Margaret Bradley one of the three Women he calls his Accusers came with a Message to him and after the Relation of her then Message to him he also relates his Answer viz. ' The Lord Rebuke thee thou
but the Son and he to whom the Son Reveals him And this Revelation is the Divine and the very same Divine Revelation is what the Quakers own and are not Ashamed of and is great wickedness in thee to count it Dangerous or inconsistent with Scripture-Testimony Thou calls thy Book A Faithful Narrative of their meaning the Quakers Malicious Persecution of H. W. and his Wife as Murtherers at the publick Assize at Carlisle Answ The Narrative is neither Faithful nor True but greatly Malicious as it is given in so general Terms against the Quakers and in part Aggravated as to the three Women mentioned by name as may more fully appear in what follows Thou begins thy Preface thus viz. Being desired by Persons of Worth and Eminency to give a Publick Account c. At last I assented say'st thou to their Importunities c. Answ Persons of either Worth or Eminency by what follows I doubt not will have good cause to detest thy Abominable Wickedness and conclude thou hast justly Exposed thy self and all thy publick Abettors to great and publick Infamy Thou adds The wrong they have done me was a sufficient Incentive to have bent all my Strength to have made all their Villainy as Notorious as possible nevertheless they see and the World sees how slow I have been to do it Then gives 1st 2d and 3d. Reasons therefore Answ The Quakers had done thee no wrong and it 's yet Questionable whether the three Women though wrong in their management against him and might miss in some Circumstances have wronged him in the main it 's known to God and his own Conscience to whom I leave the Judgment thereof desiring the Readers Patience and to suspend his Judging thereof until he has Read and Seriously Considered what the said H. W. and Wife have given under their hands with what else is herein after Inserted relating thereto and the World has seen and under his hand we have an Account of what he has done to the said three Women and their Husbands and also may now see what he has done to the Quakers and if the Malice that may yet rest in his or the Hearts of his Abettors can do more let them do it quickly His Reasons pretended for his Slowness are Idle Impertinent and Fallacious For will not Wise Men judge it more seasonable to Detect Persons for wrong when Living and Capable either of Defence or making Satisfaction neither of which the Dead can do and his now Trampling upon their Graves is no good sign of Innocency but I shall only ask him if there was not some other Reasons 1st Was his Heart before now grown hard enough for such a work And 2dly Whether he presumed that length of time had not buried the Memory of his Wickedness and made a prey of what he had written and said relating to the Demonstration thereof 3dly Whether he was not too far prevailed upon by some of those People amongst whom he now walks who are apt enough I say some Hot Heads amongst them I make that distinction because I know there are Sober-minded amongst them and as I hear are not pleased with his Book and perhaps will find cause to be more displeased to catch at any thing tho' never so Dirty if they can but throw it at the Despised People called Quakers And doth not his saying At last I assented to their Importunities and that kind of Sorrowful or Lamenting Saying of his Wife viz. Ah we were put upon it or else we had never done it greatly demonstrate that they have now of late been too far prevailed upon and persuaded to what they have done to the gratifying of a Wrathful Spirit in which work they will never be Blessed but will undoubtedly meet with Shame I shall take notice of some Passages of what I find given as his second Reason for his Slowness yet not because it is either Reasonable or Pertinent to that matter viz. But afterward thought it a dignity far surpassing my deserts that God should chuse me his Instrument to Fight this Battel c. And when I consider saith he what Persons our Saviour chose for his Great Apostles c. Answ O Impudent Man would he be taken for God's chosen Instrument no sure he must be a cleaner Man first and our Blessed Saviour Holy Jesus chose neither Whoremongers not Adulterers for his Great Apostles no their Greatness stood in Holiness and Whoremongers and Adulterers have no place in the Kingdom of Christ no the God that chose him unclean Man is the God of the World who has such Instruments to Battel with the Lamb and his followers and the dignity that he gets by this his Work will appear by what follows I now come to his Narrative passing by at present what the Publisher adds to the Preface Intending in its proper season to take notice of what the Nameless Publisher adds there and elsewhere In Page the 2d H. W. on behalf of Himself and Wife saith But being Conscious of our perfect Innocency we made our appeal to the Searcher of Hearts c. Again in Page the 3d. We know no guilt you are false Prophetesses c. In Page the 11th A Burthen Intolerable had I not been supported by a God of Truth and a clear Conscience In Answer to all which I offer what follows taken out of their own Papers viz. H. W. and Wife and owned very late so to be by them or the one of them before several Witnesses whose Names are after Inserted which Papers are Dated from the Year 1674. about the time that our Friends had denied them for their Scandalous Wickedness And Wrath and Judgment from the Lord being upon them therefore they Writ and gave under their Hands two Papers as followeth Oh! Dearly Beloved and Chosen of God ye are the Children of the most High God and Church of whom Christ is Head Hear us we pray you and we shall discover our Hearts to you First we Acknowledge and Confess that we have Sinned and Transgressed against the Lord God and against his People who have born grievous Burthens for us we must needs confess before you But this know Dear Friends that the Enemy wrought in a Mistery in us to the persuading of us that we might do such things and yet Live then through the weakness of the Flesh Sin took Occasion and overcame us then Sin being committed it brought forth Death to the Innocent Life which we once Lived in then the Lord hid his Presence from us which we once Injoyed and left us to our selves then we were as Sheep without a Shepherd wandering upon the Barren Mountains where there was no Food for the Soul so let us be a Warning to all Backsliders and those that turn from the Grace of God into any Unrighteousness For there will be a losing of the Presence of the Lord and of the Incomes of his Love unto the Soul which is the greatest Loss of all Losses c.
Impudent Wretch And in Page 2. he saith That not long after came M. L. with the same Message And further in the same Page he saith We opposed them to Convince if possible by all the Arguments we could use that their pretended Revelations came from the Devil And in Page 3. Calls them Poor Deluded Creatures False Prophetesses and that he thought the Devil had led them so far that he could not bring them off without Confusion and Shame Now Reader I say again be pleased to compare what I have above Cited out of the three first Pages of his Narrative with what I have before taken out of their two Papers relating to Margaret Bradley and then consider when and in what time we shall believe H. W. and his Wife whether in what they say in their Narrative in the Pages aforesaid which they pretend was spoken in the Year 1673. or in their Papers written in 1674. the Year next following since they so positively Contradict each other For in the first Year 1673. She the said M. B. is an Impudent Wretch that her Message or Revelation came from the Devil a Deluded Creature a False Prophetess one that the Devil had in H. W. and his Wife's Thoughts led so far that he could not bring her back without Shame and Confusion c. But in their Paper under their Hands and owned as before said written in the Year 1674. next following fully contradicts what they would now say or pretend was spoken in the Year before for in this later Year she viz. Margaret Bradley is God's Messenger to them a Faithful Servant of God a Lover of their Souls one who Travelled in Pain for them desires that the Lord may Reward her for her Faithfulness between the Lord and them And concludes with that no doubt but the Lord hath already Rewarded her c. Now Considerate Reader which of the two is to be believed as true first or last or both which cannot be being so absolutely Contrary except they grant they wronged her in the first and that she was still what in the latter they say if they had rightly understood her and her Message and if the first be true and that she was worthy of such Vile Terms in 1673. then how comes she to deserve such an Honourable Character in 1674. was not her Message still the same if they alledge she was become a better yea a good Woman will that do no not to reconcile the the Contradiction before the Message being still the same and if the last be true and to be Believed as by them Subscribed to and since owned as before said written in 1674. then how will H. W. justifie his Prosecution of her at Law upon the Score of the said Message But I observe the Serpents Way is very Crooked full of Deceitful Doubles and he Deceives all at last who follow him by leading them where they cannot return without Shame and Confusion where the Reader may see he hath led H. W. and his Wife the old Proverb is Liers ought to have a good Memory And may it not be reasonably concluded by what is before said that it was the real Sense of H. W. and his Wife when their Papers were written they being then under the Sence of the Righteous Judgments of God for their great Sins viz. in the Year 1674. before they had hardened their Hearts against the Lord and that what is pretended to be spoken in the Year 1673. is but only Stuff through Enmity and Malice since entered into their Hearts against the Truth and God's People and now Introduced to Amuse and Deceive the Unwary Reader and with more colour to reflect upon and asperse an Innocent People as also to hide and cover their great Wickedness And in as much as they are Witnesses under their own Hands That she viz. M. B. was a Servant of God and his Messenger to them in 74. What notice is to be taken or credit to be given to what in the Year before is now pretended to be spoken upon her said Message but to be exploded and looked upon as the product of great Enmity against the Truth and People from which he is fallen and to Gratifie his Assistants and Abettors such as his Wife saith urged or put them upon Writing and Publishing in Print else they had never done it who together with them will justly for their pains reap Infamy and Shame For the Wickedness of the Wicked will return upon his own Head And if she was a Faithful Servant of the Lord and his Messenger to them as they say under their Hands in their said Papers I ask H. W. and his Wife what was the Message she brought them Was it what they have Inserted in their said Book which she Charged them with Then I further query of them how they will evade the matter of Fact Charged against them therein or excuse themselves from the Guilt thereof since they say She was to them God's Messenger c. For I find no other Message or Charge Inserted in the said Book Charged against the said M. B. and other two Women except what he mentions in Page 11. viz. They meaning the three Women or some of them had new Revelations saith he That I was guilty of the Death of some Person nearly Related to them and me But who this Person was or how Related either to them or him he mentions not but leaves his Reader in the Dark Wherefore I now Query if it was his first Wife he means for sure she was or at least ought to have been nearly Related to him but such Dishonest and Unfaithful Men to their Wives as he who loudly Lusts after others cannot Love or be so nearly Related to their own Wives as they ought to be and if it be his first Wife he means and yet Conceals her it might be Policy I will not say Wisdom except Devilish lest the nameing her might revive that Jealousie of wrong to her upon her sudden and unexpected Death and the Circumstances before Related That she that was his then and his now Wife was then under O how Gross things looks And it 's Irksome to me to meddle in such Dirty Stuff if it were not to wipe it off the Innocent and cast it back where it ought to stick wherefore I shall take notice of another great Circumstance of more Wickedness than was clearly Discovered That is that when the Sisters and near Relations of her that is now Wife to H. W. was Jealous of her being with Child about the time of the Death of H. W's first Wife and she thereupon being questioned yet stoutly denied they for better Satisfaction did search her and found Milk in her Breasts which I suppose is commonly taken amongst Women for an undoubted Token of being with Child except such as give Suck And their pressing that as a Certain Token of her being so yet she to blind them and to hide if she could her Condition replied