the faithful Ergo the faithful must pray to the Martyrs no young Logician would be guilty of such Reasoning You call St. Austin again to your Aid to prove that there was an Invocation and Adoration used at the Meetings of Christians to commemorate the Martyrs We offer to thee O Peter O Paul O Cyprian What was it that was offered pray in your next let us have the whole sence of the Father these are imperfect sayings and we will reply to them in the next but this by the way The words are no more than a Rhetorical Apostrophe to the Images or Tombs of these Saints The reason you say the holy Doctor gives for their Invocation is because of the Oblation they make to God who hath Crowned the Martyrs their Martyrdom was a Sacrifice with which God was well pleased and their Holiness comes up as a Memorial before God for he is not unmindful of their Blood which still doth cry from under the Altar which after a certain manner we may term an Oblation And in this Sence that great Doctor saith They make an Oblation But what then Because St. Austin doth Invocate the Saints that therefore he prays to them You know Sir Invocation doth not imply a belief that the Person Invocated doth hear or that the Person Invoked is prayed unto And this Sir will be made appear from those Divines and Doctors for which you have no small esteem I suppose Sir you have not forgotten that in your Church you use thus to Salute the holy Oyl Ave Sanctum Oleum All Hail thou holy Oyl Nor do I believe but that within a few days you did thus Salute a Cross of Wood or Silver or Brass Ave Rex noster I am confident you have prayed to the Cross thus O Crux ave spes unica hoc Passionis Tempore Auge Piis Justitiam Reis que dona veniam All Hail O Cross our only Hope in this time of the Passion Give thou increase of Righteousness unto the Godly and give thou Pardon unto Sinners You have seen the Prayer that Pope Bomface the Eighth made to be said before a Picture and Image of the Cross which is this O Crux altissima O Innocens Sanguis O Poena magna O Christi penuria O profunda Vulnera O Lanciae perforatio O Sanguinis fluctio O Cordis Fractio O Dei amara Mors O Dei veneranda Dignitas adjuva me in Vitam oeternam Amen O most high Cross O innocent Blood O great Pain O the Penury of Christ O the deep Wounds O the piercing through of the Spear O the flowing of the Blood O the breaking of the Heart O the bitter Death of God O the Worshipful Dignity of God help me unto everlasting Life I cannot believe Sir that you give Divine Worship unto a corruptable Creature or that you believe that Christ is there present under the Form of Wood. You know that the Sacrament hath been Invocated and yet the Sacrament is a thing unsensible as Epiphanius saith Dyonisius who as your Divines say did Invocate it but see what Pathymeres the Greek Paraphrast saith Expounding the Words in this Sence O Divinum Sacrum Mysterium affatur illud tanquam rem animatam He speaketh to the Sacrament as if it were indued with Sence and Life and yet the Sacrament is not a Thing that hath Life and Sence So Gregory the Great saith O Great and Holy Passeover Therefore Sir every thing that is called upon is not Adored with Divine Honour Consider Sir what your own Abdias saith of St. Andrew when he came to suffer upon the Cross for the Testimony of God and his Christ he represents the Holy Apostle thus speaking to the Cross Salve Crux c. All Hail thou Cross that here standest thus looking for me I come of my own accord unto thee for I know thy Secrecy I know thy Mystery I see in thee the things that are promised to me of my Lord Receive thou me O thou chosen Cross that an thus humbled for my God and help the poor Servant unto his Master Sir here are plain Words of Invocation here is manifest Adoration yet I hope you will not believe that St. Andrew did indeed give Divine Honour unto a Wooden Cross on which he was to suffer I pray consider the words of St. Ambrose Lib. 10. Cap. 22. in Lucam Observe how he doth speak to the Water of Baptism O Aqua quae humano aspersum Sanguine c. O thou Water that hast washed the World stained with Man's Blood O thou Water that deservest to be a Sacrament of Christ thou beginnest thou fulfillest the perfect Mysteries Do you think that St. Andrew's Cross had Eyes and Ears Do you think that the Baptismal Water had Eyes and Ears You cannot imagine therefore that St. Andrew expected to be heard by the Cross or St. Ambrose by the Water And as St. Ambrose did not expect to be heard so he designed no Divine Honour to the Water I pray consider what Devotion your Church doth use to the Girdle of the Blessed Virgin O Veneranda Zona fac nos Haeredes aeternae beatae Vitae hanc nostram vitam ab interitu conserva tuam Hereditatem tuum Populum O Intemeratae Zona intemerata conserva habeamus te vires Auxilium murum pro pugnaculum portum Salutare Refugium O Blessed Girdle make us the Inheritors of Eternal and Blessed Life and keep our present Life from Destruction O unspotted Girdle of the unspotted Virgin save thy Inheritance O save thy People be thou our Strength our Wall our Fort our Haven our Refuge This Prayer of your Divines is not taken out of Euthymius but it is taken out of Aloysius Lippomanus the Bishop of Verona where you had your Prayer to St. Theodore made by Nectarius for in the Margin he hath made this Observation upon the Prayer O quam magna mira petit a Veneranda Zona O how great and marvellous things he desireth of this Blessed Girdle From this Prayer you cannot say that either Euthymius or Lippomanus would have you Worship the Virgin Mary's Girdle with Divine Honour From all which I easily gather that though the Fathers did in the Fourth and Fifth Centuries Invocate and ask the Saints for Favours yet in that they paid them no Divine Honour Prayer being of its own nature due only to the Creator and not to the Creature nor indeed can any thinking Man justifie the Fathers in those Raptures and Rhetorical Apostrophe's in which their Zeal did exceed the bounds of their Knowledge for their Judgments were otherwise when they came to be more sedate and had taken these Raptures into consideration which I shall shew you by and by By your writing I perceive that you are so fond of the notion of the lawfulness of praying to Saints that you endeavour to deliver your notion from that great objection of the incapacity of the Saints hearing us in many
Nyssen Another Proof you produce is St. Gregory Nazianzen who you bring in praying to St. Basil in these Words O Sacred and Divine Man look down upon us from Heaven and either by your Prayers mortifie that Sting of the Flesh which God hath given us for our Instruction or move us to bare it with a couragious Mind and direct our whole Life to that which is most fitting and when we part out of this Life receive us there in your Tabernacles Sir I have read over the Life of Nazianzen written by Gregorius Presbyter and he tells us that Nazianzen came to Caesaria a great while after St. Basu's Death and it is like he might Visit St. Basil's Grave but I do not remember any Prayer he made to St. Basil and since Gregorius Presbyter maketh no mention of it who wrote his Life and no mention being made of it by Socrates and Sozomen nor of St. Gregory Nyssen nor Gregory Nazianzen himself and other old Writers of approved Credit that also wrote St. Basil's Life mention that Prayer made to St. Basil by St. Gregory Nazianzen Till you give me some Instructions where to find this Prayer you must excuse me from believing any thing of the Matter I partly guess at your Authour who if well considered will give you no manner of Reputation The next Proof is a Prayer of St. Maximus to St. Agnes which I shall not give my self the trouble of answering till you tell me where you find that Prayer and then I shall be in a better condition to make a Reply to it I yet never met with any such Prayer in my Reading I would have you tell where in your Books you meet with it I will then tell my Thoughts of it till then I shall forbear any Reply The next Proof you produce is Father Hillary of Arles his Prayer to St. Honoratus To this Hillary I must confess I am wholly a Stranger but I have considered St. Hillary Bishop of Poicters and he knoweth nothing of the business and therefore I pray tell us who this St. Hillary of Arles was but the Saint Hillary that I know was Bishop of Poicters and was a married Bishop and did Learnedly write of the Holy Trinity I have both Fathers and Councils by me and I have read some things of this St. Hillary but he mentions nothing of praying to St. Honoratus I pray Sir tell me whether there were two St. Hillaries or no if not then let me tell you that I cannot find it till I have some directions from you and you must excuse me from giving any Credit to it for I doubt you depend upon an Author that will have little or no Credit for the Prayer as you call it smells so much of your Romish Forgery that I cannot well mention without great Indignation for St. Hillary the said Bishop of Poicters lived and flourished presently after St. Athanasius and then praying to Saints was not in fashion In the latter part of the fourth Century some of the Fathers were very full of their Rhetorical Apostrophies and did call upon their Saints but not pray their Speeches many times were directed to them that Men might follow their good Example having had an Account of their Lives but no Prayer at all intended to them Sir in your Epistle to the English Peer you make mention of one Amphilochius as a great Defender of the Lawfulness of Praying to Saints but in your Letter to Mr. Needham are pleased to take no notice of him therefore give me leave to tell you that it is true there was an Amphilochius that did maintain and defend that Doctrine but he is a new Amphilochius of your Churches setting up and not the true Amphilochius and your Prayers of St. Gregory Nazianzen to St. Basil and your Prayers of St. Gregory Nyssen to St. Theodore and your Prayers of Nectarius Patriarch of Constantinople to St. Theodore are all taken out of your Amphilochius the falseness of that Author shall be made appear by and by him you make a Writer of St. Basu's Life and what not We confess there was Amphilochius that was of Iconium but not Bishop of Iconium but Archbishop of Layconia he was a stout godly and worthy Bishop that did write against the Messalian Heretiques whom he couragiously suppressed and joyned with Flavianus Bishop of Antioch and drove them out of their Diocesses and in the Assistance of these Holy Prelates one Laetoius who was a Zealous Man came and burned up their Monasteries or as Theodoret termeth it their Den of Thieves Lib. 4. c. 11. But your Amphilochius who as your Divines pretend was Bishop of Iconium and if we may believe your Church-men was Consecrated by Angels from Heaven He pretends to write St. Basil's Life and was as yours say an Ancient Father and the Credit this Amphilochius hath did incourage you to make use of his Name and Authority in your Epistle to the English Peer for a Proof of the warrantableness of the Doctrine of praying to Saints as it is now practised in your Church I confess the Names of the Ancient Fathers of the Church are worthy of great Honour The Life of St. Basil was written and published by several worthy Fathers as by St. Gregorius Nyssenus and by his dear Friend St. Gregory Nazianzen by Gregorius Presbyter by Socrates and by Theodoret by Sozomen and Nicephorus and St. Chrysostom hath some Remarks of his Life in his Works notwithstanding of late years he that wrote Vitas Patrum and Jacobus de Voragine and Vincentius in speculo who seem to intitle this Amphilochius to be a great Writer of St. Bazil's life and therefore from him you have the prayer St. Gregory Nazianzen is supposed to have made to St. Bazil The reason of my suspition is because I cannot find this Prayer as I observed to you in any of the Works of those ancient Writers before-mentioned If you have I pray deal so ingeniously with us as to tell us But in the mean time to let you understand of what Credit your Amphilochus is I pray see how he hath dealt with St. Bazil in his pretended writing his Life and by that you may see what stress may be laid upon his Authority as to the controversie now in hand We will therefore compare your Amphilochius with Socrates Sozomen Gregory Nazianzen and Gregory Nyssen and other Ancient Fathers of undoubted Reputation in the world that did on purpose write the life of St. Bazil but not one syllable as ever I could see of that Prayer Socrates and Zozomen do say that Bazil in his Youth was under the Education of Libanius and was his Scholar but your Amphilochius saith that he was Companion and School-fellow to Libanius Socr. l. 4. c. 21. Sozomen l. 6. c. 17. Nazianzen and Gregorius Presbyter say that Basil living some time at Caesaria was well acquainted with Eusebius the Bishop of that place before he went into Pontus Your Amphilochius saith that at his return
Antichrist This Sir I humbly conceive is worthy of your Consideration And I hope that you will not for the future rely much upon that Distinction I must mind you of that Saying of the Prophet Where are thy Gods that thou hast made thee Let them arise if they can save thee in the time of thy trouble for according to the number of thy Cities are thy Gods O Judah Jer. 2. 28. chap. 11. 13. And according to the number of the Streets of Jerusalem have you set up Altars to the shameful Thing even Altars to burn Incense unto Baal So you have your innumerable Company of Saints to whom ye erect Altars insomuch that those of your Communion cannot tell to which Saint it were best to turn them first yet you have assighed every one of them their Office and direct your Disciples what things they ought to ask and what to give and what to bring to pass under their respective Protections without any manner of Warrant from the Word of God. But Sir be pleased to understand me I do not apply these false Gods to the Saints for that would be Blasphemy and it were to call them Idols which is absurd seeing that they see the Face of God evermore and are with God in Glory but in respect of those horrible Abuses and vain Fancies of those of your Communion the words of the Prophet may be justly applyed for you in your Imagination of the Saints of God you have made Idols and have so multiplied and increased the same that the number of them have exceeded the number of your Cities and Towns But Sir if you will give me your patience I will shew you that an eminent Light in the Church of God did apply these very words of the Prophet unto the Blessed Mother of Jesus being then abused most Idolatrously by the Hereticks Collyridians in the same manner as you abuse her and other Saints now even to the highest Idolatry it was the old Father Epiphanius Lib. 3. Haeris 79. Nequis comedat de Errore qui est propter Sanctam Mariam tam si enim pulchrum sit lignum tamen non'est ad Cibum si Pulcherrima est Maria Sancta Honorata at non ad Adorationem Hae vero Mulieris colentes Mariam rursus Renovant fortunae mixturam praeparant Mensam Diabolo non Deo quemadmodium Scriptum est pascuntur cibo impietatis rursus Faeminae terunt Pollinem Filiis colligunt Ligna ut faciant Placentas Oleo subactus Reginae Caeli Compescantur Jeremia tales Mulieres ne turbant Orbem Terrarum ne dicant Honoramus Reginam Coeli Let no Man feed upon this Error touching St. Mary for though the Tree be fair yet is not the Fruit to be eaten and though Mary be Beautiful Holy and Honourable yet is she not to be Adored But these Women Worshipping St. Mary run again to the Sacrifice of Wine mingled in the Honour of the Goddess Fortune and prepare a Table for the Devil and not for God as it is written in the Scriptures they are fed with the meat of wickedness and again their Women boult flower and their Children gather sticks to make Cakes in honour of the Queen of Heaven therefore let such Women be rebuked by the Prophet Jeremiah and let them no more trouble the World and let them not say We worship the Queen of Heaven Here you may see Sir that these words were spoken of the filthy Idols of the Heathen and by this holy Father applied to the Mother of our Lord not to deface that blessed Woman but to declare the fond Errours of those Hereticks what is done less to that great Saint in those Countries that pay Obedience to the Church and See of Rome than these Hereticks did of whom this holy man thus complaineth Do you not offer to her Candles Incence Garments Jewels of Silver and Jewels of Gold Are not by pretence of Worship your Churches inriched And all this you do because you say She is the great Mediator of Intercession But you pay the same Homage to her if not more as you do to her Son the Redeemer of the World. You pray to her to save and defend you in Body and Soul now and in the hour of death for you call her The Queen of Heaven the Lady of Angels you say to her Command thy Son shew thy self to be a Mother Your Cardinal Bembus telleth the Virgin Dominam Deam Nostram Bemb in Epist ad Carolum 5. Ambrosius Catharinus one of the Council of Trent Sess 2. calleth the Virgin God's Fellow Fidelissima ejus Socia Nicholaus Cusanus a Cardinal of Rome saith Excitat Lib. 8. Hoc cedit ad Laudem dei Virginis Mariae Matris quod ipso suo principatu Authoris mortis nullo unquam tempore fuit non indiguit virgo Liberatore qui ipsam absolveret a sententia in Adam in posteres Lata Maria non est deleta de Libro Mortis quia nunquam in eo scripta fuit This thing turneth to the praise of God and of the Virgin Mary the Mother that she never was at any time under the power of the Author of Death that Virgin needed no Deliverer that should ransom her from the Sentence pronounced against Adam and his Posterity Mary was never razed out of the Book of Death for she was never written in it When our Nation did profess the Romish Religion I meet with a Council held at Oxford where the Name of Christ is quite left out and Mary's Name put in for thus it beginneth Authoritate Dei Patris Baeatae Virginis omnium Sanctorum By the Authority of God the Father and the Blessed Virgin and of all Saints Do you not in your Offices call her Mediatrix and Redemptrix Why then do you shuffle off your Hearers with this distinction that Christ alone is the Mediator of Salvation and that the Virgin and Saints are only Mediators of Intercession and not of Salvation I would once more pray you to observe how you contradict your own Doctrine left by men whose Authority was not to be question'd by any that did succeed them If your St. Ambrose saith true The Saints by shedding their Bloud did purchase Salvation for us how comes it to pass that they are not Mediators of Salvation But if they did not purchase Salvation for us I pray how comes it to pass that they are Mediators of Intercession When did this Priesthood of theirs commence When did God say to any one of them Thou art my Son this day have I begotten thee The Saints did not glorifie themselves to be made Priests nor did God call them to that Priesthood that should intitle them to such a Mediatorship that you would put upon them and Christ himself had not glorified himself to be made an High-Priest but God glorified him and said Thou art my Son this day have I begotten thee Heb. 5. 8. From all which Sir we may
Saying of St. Basil to prove your Doctrine of the lawfulness of the Practice of your Church in Praying to Saints And why you should think to corroberate your Authority with the Saying of the Prophet Zachary that I must leave to you to consider of for at the present I do not see any tendancy that way by the words of St. Basil Another Testimony you produce was an Observation of St. Augustine on the Blessing of Job Gen. 48. to wit that not only Exaudition but Invocation is used in reference to Men as well as to God where your Printer I conceive was mistaken for there was no mention made of the Blessing of Job but there is mention made of the Blessing of Jacob in the fifteenth and sixteenth Verses of that Chapter where the Text saith That Jacob blessed Joseph and said God before whom my Fathers Abraham and Isaac walked and the God which fed me all my life long until this day The Angel which redeemed me from all evil bless the Lads and let my Name be named on them and the Name of my Fathers Abraham and Isaac and let them grow into a Multitude in the middest of the Earth Now I pray Sir what do you infer from these words I suppose that you lay some stress upon these words The Angel which delivered me from all evil bless the Lads and from the Names used of Abraham and Isaac you would prove the Lawfulness of the Invocation of Angels and that the Saints do interceed for us that could not be Jacob's meaning For Sir it was not Angelus Domini that Jacob points at but at Angelus Dominus who is called the Angel of the Covenant and him only Jacob doth Invoke for a Blessing for when he saw this Angel he saith I have seen God face to face and my Life is preserved Gen. 32. 30. And that the naming of Abraham and Isaac doth imply the Intercession of Abraham and Isaac in the behalf of his two Grandchildren is an Errour for according to the Sence of Bellarmine one of your own Church and Order it was not the manner under the Old Testament for Men to apply themselves to the Saints and he gives this reason The Fathers were then shut up in Prison and did not see the Face of God therefore if this be true you must not conclude the Doctrine of the Intercession of the Saints from these words or that they were to be prayed unto You further cite St. Augustine and you bring him in saying The Christian People celebrate together the Memory of the Martyrs a Religious Solemnity both to excite an imitation of them and that they be partakers of their Merits and be assisted by their Prayers That the Christians did meet to praise God together for the holy Lives and happy Deaths of God's most blessed Saints and Martyrs Sir is no question and that they did it in a most Religious Solemn Manner is beyond all doubt and that they did in order to follow these good Examples that were recorded of these Saints is as clear And what of all this They did Meet together to celebrate the Memory of the holy Martyrs Ergo They prayed to them They met to Celebrate the Memory of the holy Martyrs to excite an Imitation of them Ergo They prayed to them This is not Logick fit for a Man of your Station and Character certainly no such Logick was taught in any of your Philosophy Schools at Liege You may know that in such Religious Assemblies congregated for the commemoration of the Saints and Martyrs the Priests did recite the Names of the Martyrs together with some short account of their holy Lives and heavenly Exits they made and of the Miracles that were wrought by them but I do not observe any Prayer or Prayers were made to them they did praise God for them and did pray to God to give them Grace to follow their good Examples and performed many Works of Charity in token of the sincerity of their Prayers But I do not find that any Direction is given by that holy Father for any Adoration or Worship to be paid to them You will say the great end for which they did Celebrate together the Memory of the Martyrs was that they might be partakers of their Merits and be assisted by their Prayers Here are two things worthy of observation 1. What is to be understood by being made partakers of the Merits of the Martyrs 2. What is to be understood by being assisted by their Prayers and both these seriously considered may I humbly conceive satisfie any reasonable Man. To the first then by the Merits of the Saints I apprehend the holy Doctor intends no more than those Gifts and Graces with which the Martyrs were indued both in their Lives and at their Deaths and that those that did meet together to commemorate these Martyrs did pray for those Gifts and Graces with which these Martyrs were indued and by which they arrived to that degree of perfection that their Lives and Deaths were Sacrifices with which God was well pleased therefore to infer that because the Christians meet together to commemorate the Martyrs to the end they might be made partakers of those Gifts and Graces with which the Martyrs were indued from on high That therefore they prayed to the Saints is a consequence which you would not allow in any other case whatsoever And Secondly consider the words of that great Saint and light of Gods Church and let us see what is to be understood by being assisted by the Prayers of the Martyrs I have observed that the blood of the Martyrs do cry How long O Lord holy and true dost thou not judge and avenge our blood Revel 6. 10. Abels blood it did call to Heaven Gen. 4. 10. If you will call this praying the point will soon be at an end If by these prayers the faithful may be said to be in a sort assisted then you and I shall not need to debate the Controversie any further for we shall soon put a period to this difference Nay Sir your own Divines from those words in the Revelations do teach That the Saints of God are present at their Tombs and Monuments and Relicks and have cited St. Jerome to prove the same And therefore I perceive it is that the Christians did meet together to commemorate the Martyrs at their respective Tombs or Monuments because from thence their cry did go to Heaven and by virtue of such Prayers and crys of these Martyrs the Church received benefit for calling for vengeance upon the wicked implies a calling for Mercy upon the Church In this sence they may be said to pray as blood may be said to have a Voice and Cry and doth it follow that because their blood doth pray and their blood hath a voice and doth Cry that we must pray to them I pray Sir in your next lay your Arguments a little closer and conclude aright from your Premises The Martyrs Prayers do assist
Decree in the case I therefore judge that your citing the Council was to little or no purpose the Practice of a number of Bishops being no Warrant for any Doctrine whatsoever unless approved allowed and decreed by a General Council You have met with sundry Debates amongst Learned Men that have not been opposed by the rest of the Council yet when the Question hath been put it hath been carryed against the Debates though they have appeared with a considerable Party But I will consider your Invocation here in the Council of Chalcedon The Words of your Invocation are these Flavianus lives after Death let him Pray for us I pray Sir do but consider the occasion of the Words There were two Persons that stood Candidates for the Bishoprick of Ephesus Bassianius and Stephen who both contended for that Bishoprick Bassianius appears before that Council and he having had this Flavianus to communicate with him in his Life-time and having been a great Favourite with him he because of that intimacy engaged the Bishops of the Obedience of Constantinople who cryed out in the Council in the behalf of Bassianius Flavianus the Martyr lives after Death he shall Pray for us Which is no more than this he shall intreat you to do us this favour as to give the Cause for Bassianus and confirm him Bishop of Ephesus let him Pray for us since he was a Martyr for the Faith let his Martyrdom oblige you to appear for his Friend These Bishops did not say Flavianus lives after Death he shall pray to God for us for you must understand these Bishops had made the Cause of Bassianus their own but he shall pray or intreat this Council for us This is a worthy proof for the Lawfulness of Praying to Saints for do but consider if it be given for granted that the intention of those Bishops was Let Flavianus pray to God for us What then doth it say Let us pray to Flavianus Here is not one Word of that nor indeed of the other Secondly You in the second place cite the Council of Gangrae Can. 20. If any one through Pride believing himself perfect accuse those Meetings which are had at the places where holy Martyrs Repose or in their Churches or believes that such Oblations as are made there ought to be slighted Let them be accursed But I pray Sir why do you put these words in that is need not the Intercession of the Saints that is the greatest Folly that ever Men could be guilty of What Man of Learning could ever give this Explication of a Canon which the thing will in no wise bear But Sir I will forfeit all the skill I have if you can bring any of the Doctors of Sorbonne or any of the Congregation De propaganda fide that would produce this Canon of the Council of Gangra to prove that Praying to Saints was enjoyned by the Catholick Church Nay I will appeal to any of the Learned of your own Society whether they in their Consciences do believe that it looks like a proof to justifie that Doctrine The Canon being taken as you have laid it down says no more that they are accursed who shall take down the Monuments of the Martyrs or should believe that the Oblations made in those Holy Places were to be slighted or should in any measure reflect on those that did frequent the Meetings had and held where the Bodies of the Martyrs did repose Here is not one word of Praying to the Saints or of the Saints making Intercession for us Thirdly You produce the Council of Laodicea held in the Year 320 as allowing the Worshipping of the true Martyrs of Christ mentioning Churches built in their Honour over their Monuments whether the Christians resorted I perceive you are faint-hearted and durst not say the Sence of the Council of Laodicea see the 35 Canon where it was determined by that Council That Christians ought not to leave the Church and go and call upon Angels and make Meetings which are things forbidden If any Man therefore be found giving himself to this secret Idolatry let him be accursed because he hath forsaken the Lord Jesus Christ the Son of God and hath applied himself to Idolatry Theodoret in his Exposition upon the Epistle to the Colossians doth twice mention this Canon and declare the Sence of it upon Col. 3. 17. the Apostle saith He commandeth us to adorn our Words and Deeds with the Commemoration of our Lord Jesus Christ and to send up thanks giving to God and the Father by him and not by Angels The Synod of Laodicea follow also this Rule and desiring to heal this old Disease viz. Angel-Worship made a Law That they should not Pray unto Angels nor forsake our Lord Jesus Christ. And on Col. 2. he adds That this Vice continued long in Phrygia and Pisidia for which cause the Synod assembled in Laodicea a chief City in Phrygia forbad them by a Law to Pray unto Angels Oecumenius hath much the same words upon the same place and here I am sure you find nothing of Praying to Saints but rather forbidden for if it be unlawful to Pray to the Angels and that be Idolatry then it is unlawful to Pray to the Saints for without doubt the latter is as lawful as the former In the Sixth and thirty sixth Canons of that Council you say That the Worshipping of Martyrs was as it were allowed or that I may not be charged for a Misrepresenter you say That you produced that Council as allowing the Worshipping the true Martyrs With what face can you assert that when those Canons speak nothing of the Worship of the true Martyrs The Council makes mention indeed of the resort of the Christians to the Churches of the Martyrs where they did use to pray but there is nothing in that Council that intimates any thing of the lawfulness or the necessity of Praying to Saints but rather forbids it Fourthly The last Council you cited is the fourth Council of Carthage held you say in the Year 368 not only Authorizing Christiansto meet in Churches Dedicated to Martyrs and even where-ever any Monument of a Martyr should be but commanding that all Altars should be demolished if there be not an evident certainty of the Relicks over which they were erected What is all this to the purpose The Council of Carthage say you Authorised Christians to meet in Churches Dedicated to the Martyrs Ergo Prayers to Saints are lawful That the Councel ordered the demolishing of all Alters if there were not an evident certainty of the Relicks over which they were erected Ergo the Council did command Praying to Saints But if you will look into the third Council of Carthage you will find it against the Praying to Saints You are pleased to say that this was the most expressive method of authorizing Devotion to the blessed Saints The Council authorized Christians to meet in Churches Dedicated to the Martyrs this was indeed an expressive method