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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A44187 A letter of a gentleman to his friend, shewing that the bishops are not to be judges in Parliament in cases capital Holles, Denzil Holles, Baron, 1599-1680. 1679 (1679) Wing H2461; ESTC R204379 41,325 145

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Et pur ce que a vis feust a les ditz Prelatz quil ne attenoit pas proprement a eux de conseiler du garde de la pees ne de chastiement des tielx malueis si alexent mesmes les Prelatz c. And because the Prelates were of opinion that it belonged not properly to them to give Counsel about keeping the Peace nor punishing such evils they went away by themselves and they returned no more Et les ditz Countes Barones autres Grantz per eux mesmes And the said Earls Barons and other great ones went by themselves and these return and by the mouth of the Lord Beaumont declare their opinions what was to be done Commissioners to be appointed in every County of the best men des plus grantz they to be Gardeins de mesme le Comte Guardians or Conservators of the County These Commissions afterwards brought into Parliament were read and approved by Nostre Sr. le Roi les Countes Barons autres Grantz our Lord the King the Earls Barons and other great ones no Bishops so much as to hear the Commissions read because they were to enquire into all Crimes as well Capital as other the Prelates must have no hand in it In the same Parliament Sir Iohn Grey and Sir Will de la Zouch had quarrelled in the Kings presence Sir Iohn had mis mein au cotel laid his hand upon his Sword they had been imprisoned and the business brought into Parliament Le Roi chargea de par la bouche le dit Mr. Geffrey le Scrope toutzles Countes Barons autre Grantz en les foies ligeances queulx ils devoient au Roi de lui conseiller ce quil devoit faire de si grand excesse fait en sa presance The King by the mouth of Sir Geffrey Scrope charged all the Earls Barons and other great ones in their Faith and Allegiance which they ow him to give him Counsel what he ought to do upon such an exorbitancy committed in his presence they go and consider of it acquit Zouch judge Grey to Prison here were no Bishops neither to Judge so much as of a Battery 25. E. 3. The proceedings and Judgment of death against Sir Will. de Thorp Chief Justice for Bribery were brought into Parliament which the King caused to be read Overtement devaut les Grantz de Parlement pur saver ent lour avys examine sur ceo chescun aprez autre si sembla a eux toutz c. To be read openly before the Grantz the great men of Parliament to have their advice upon it and being all asked one after another it seemed to them all that they were very just Et sur ceo il fut accorde par les Grantz de mesme le Parlement que si nul autre tiel cas aveigne que nostre Sr. Le Roi preigne lui des Grantz que lui plairra pur per lour bon a vis faire ceo que pleise a sa Roiale Seignurie Vpon this it was agreed by those Grantz those Great men of the Parliament that if any such other case should happen our Lord the King might take any one of those Grantz those Great men whom he should please to do by their good advice what he should think good It cannot be understood any Bishops were here under the name of Grantz and to be of the number of those whom the King should take to assist and advise him in such other Judgments of death for the time to come if occasion were which could be no employment for Bishops being to give Judgments of death 42. E. 3. Sir Iohn de Lee Steward of the Kings House charged with several misdemeanors the Record saith Et apres manger vindrent les Prelats Dues Countes Barons ascuns des Cōes illoeques feust fait venir Mr. Iohn de Lee c. And after they had eaten the Prelats Dukes Earls Barons and some of the Commons came and Sir John de Lee was fetcht thither c. The business was there heard and he was sent to prison Here the Prelats were present for the Crime was not Capital 50. E. 3. Several persons are accused even by the Commons for misdemeanors and the Bishops present at their Trials and Judgments as Richard Lyons who had been Farmer of the Customs the Lord Latimer who was the Kings Chamberlain for Oppression in several places in Britain and in England he was by the Bishops and Lords adjudged to be imprisoned and put to Fine and Ransom and then the Commons desired he might lose all his Offices and no longer be of the Kings Council which the King granted Yet after this 51. E. 3. at the request of the Commons themselves he was restored to all and declared innocent which I take notice of by the way At this Parlament of 50. William Ellis of Yarmouth as privy and accessary to the misdemeanors of Lyons Iohn Peach of London for getting a Monopoly of sweet Wines the Lord Iohn Nevil a Privy Counsellor for buying some debts due by the King at easie prizes to make advantage to himself At all these Trials the Bishops were present and no body says but they might 1. R. 2. William de Weston and Iohn de Gomenitz were tried for surrendring Towns and Castles in Flanders to the Kings Enemies they had put in their Answers Friday Nov. 22. Saturday they are brought to the Parlament and Sir Richard le Scrope Steward of the Kings House A commandement de Seigneurs avant-ditz By the command of the Lords aforesaid told them That the foresaid Lords and the Record tells you who those Lords were cest assavoir to wit the Duke of Lancaster the Earls of Cambridge March Arundel Warwick Stafford Suffolk Salisbury and Northumberland and the Lord Nevil Lord Clifford plusours autres Seigneurs Barons Bannerettes esteants au dit Parlement savoient assemblez avisez Many other Lords Barons and Bannerets being in the said Parliament had met and advised upon it from the time they had put in their Answers and found they were not satisfactory and then gave sentence saying that those Lords had adjudged them to death first Weston was called and this said to him and then Gomenitz Here was none of the Prelats named and it cannot be imagined they should be under the general expression autres Seignieurs Barons Bannerettes And other Lords Barons and Bannerets after the naming of two Barons for if there had been Bishops they would have been named before them Observe likewise that no Bishops were present from the time that the Prisoners Answers came in to have Vote and determine concerning any part of their Answer Pardon or whatever they had pleaded In the same Parliament and the very next thing upon the Roll is the Case of Alice Perrers accused for breach of an Ordinance made 50 E. 3. against Womens medling with State Affairs there the Record saith that she was Fait venir
of Northumberland had Petitioned the King for his Pardon for having contrary to his Allegiance gathered Forces and given Liveries The King gave this Petition to the Judges to have their opinion of it the Lords Protested against it and said that the Judgment belonged to them and retained the business Et puis leve entendue la Petition les Srs. come Piers du Parlement a queux tielz Iugement apperteinnent de droit adjuggerent que ceo que fust fait per le Conte nestoit pas trahison mes trespas tant seulement Sur quoy le dit Conte molt humblement remercia le Roy les ditz Srs. ses Piers de lour droiturel Iugement And then the Petition being read and understood the Lords as Peers of Parliament to whom such Iudgments do of right appertain did give their Iudgment that what the Earl had done was no Treason but only a Trespass whereupon the said Earl did most humbly thank the King and the said Lords his Peers for their righteous Iudgment Now the Bishops could not be said to be his Peers which shews they were not there 7 H. 4. A Judgment was given much like to that in the 2 H. 4. The King commanded the Lords Temporal to deliver their advice concerning the Earl of Northumberland and the Lord Bardolph who had been killed at Bramham More in Yorkshire by the Sheriff of the County who therewith the Posse Comitatus encountred them in the field There were proceedings against them in the Court of Chivalry after their deaths upon certain Articles of Treason there exhibited against them These Articles were brought into Parliament upon reading of which those Lords Temporal adjudged their Crime to be Treason 5 H. 5. The Commons Baillerent une Petition delivered a Petition directed Al honorable Prince le Duc de Bedford Gardein d' Engleterre as tres sages Srs. de cest present Parlement To the honourable Prince the Duke of Bedford Gardian of England and to the most wise Lords of this present Parliament that Sir Iohn Oldcastle might be brought before them who was indicted and outlawed in the Kings Bench for Treason and excommunicated by the Archbishop of Canterbury for Heresie and that due execution might be done upon him according to their discretion by authority of Parliament Pur quoy agarde est per les Srs. avant ditz del assent de le dit Gardein a la priere susdit que le dit John come Traitor au Roy a son Royalme so it amesnez a la Tour de Londres dilloeques soit treinez parmi la cite de Londres as novelles Fourches en la paroche de St. Giles illoeques soit penduz ars pendant Wherefore it is adjudged by the Lords aforesaid with the assent of the said Gardian upon the foresaid Request that the said John as a Traitor to the King and his Realm be carried to the Tower of London and thence drawn through the City of London to the new Gallows in St. Giles Parish and there to be hanged and burnt hanging The question is now if it shall be understood that under the general expression of Les Srs. de cest present Parlement the Bishops were comprized and so to have been parties in this Judgment and I conceive not first because I observe that generally throughout all the Records and Journals of Parliament almost in all transactions but especially and constantly I find it so in matters of Judicature where they were present it is always mentioned and expressed so at That the Lords Spiritual and Temporal or That the Prelats and Earls and Barons did so and so as it was in the Cases before mention ed of Sir Iohn Lee Richard Lyons the Lord Latimer and the rest accused of misdemeanours And my other reason is that in this particular Case of Sir Iohn Oldcastle I find the Clergy had done their parts with him before declaring him an Heretick and turning him over to the Secular power as the words of the Excommunication run where after having expressed a great tenderness of the desperate condition of his Soul and much bewailed his obdurateness they do condemn him for a Heretick Relinquentes eum ex nunc tanquam Hereticum Iudicio Seculari Leaving him from thence forward as an Heretick to the Secular Iudgment So certainly those good men I mean those Popish Bishops would have no more to do with him as to his farther Execution that the world might see they were not Men of bloud 2. H. 6. Sir Iohn Mortimer had been committed to the Tower upon suspicion of Treason against Henry the Fifth and made an escape out of prison being taken again he was indicted of Treason at Guild-Hall The Indictment by the Kings command was returned into Chancery then brought into Parliament by the Bishop of Durham Lord Chancellour and by him Coram Humfrido Duce Gloucestriae who in the Kings absence was commissionated to call and hold that Parliament ac aliis Dominis Temporalibus in eodem Parliamento tune existentibus fuit liberatum Was delivered to Humfry Duke of Glocester and other the Lords Temporal being then in Parliament to be by them affirmed as it was and Sir Iohn Mortimer then brought before them and adjudged by them to be drawn hanged and quartered Et super hoc viso plenius intellecto Indictamento per dictum Ducem de avisamento dictorum Dominorum Temporalium ac ad requisitionem totius Communitatis in presenti Parliamento existentium auctoritate istius Parliamenti ordinatum est statutum c. quod ipse usque ad Turrim ducatur c. And hereupon the said Indictment being seen and well understood it was by the said Duke by the advice of the said Lords Temporal at the prayer of the whole Commonalty in this present Parliament and by the Authority thereof Ordered and Decreed c. that he should be led to the Tower and from thence drawn to Tyburn and there executed We see here the Bishops did not offer to advise so much as concerning the Indictment if it should be admitted of and received by the Parliament though a Bishop being Lord Chancellor was by vertue of his Office to bring it out of the Chancery and present it to the House as he did and there left it 28 H. 6. is the sole single President of Bishops being present and not only so but acting and bearing a principal part in a Judicial proceeding in Parliament in a Case that was in it self Capital though strangely shuffled off and Justice wholly eluded Ianuary 22. William de la Pole Duke of Suffolk preferred a Petition to the King complaining how he was defamed as if he were other than a true man to the King and the Realm and desiring that any man would say wherein that he might give his Answer thereunto Munday 26. the Commons sent some of their Fellows to the Chancellour who was Archbishop of York and a Cardinal praying him that whereas