But doth purport the same that Iohn tolde vs in other wordes I came from my Father into the world and again I leaue the world and go to my Father For seeing the Apostle in this place bringeth his ascension as an argument of his descending which Iohn also did before him No man can asscend vp into heauen but he that hath descended from heaven the sonne of man which is in heauen It must follow by necessarie consequence that he descended thither whence he ascended Now I trust you will say that he ascended into heauen not from Hell but from Bethanie in the sight of his Disciples Secondlie if the place where he descended was heauen Hel cannot be the place whither hee descended For if euer he was there he went not thither in 30. yeares after his descension and aboue If you will say that he first descended into the earth and then into Hell then that descending could not be one motion beeing so manie yeares intermitted but must needes bee two first from heauen into the earth and then from the earth into Hell HIL his Reply VVHere you say you will let mee alone with my Hebrue words yet deny they signifie hel I hope because I haue proued that they signifie not the graue as you haue ignorātly or against your conscience affirmed at your next answering you will say they signifie hell and confesse your disagreement with Dauid Esay and Ezechiel Now you conclude with certaine pregnant reasons as you imagine your first is this These words do purporte vnto vs that which Iohn told vs in other words I cam from my father into the world and againe I leaue the world and goe to my Father Ioh. 16. 18. This is nothing pertaning to the matter we haue in hand vnles this be your argument Christ came into the world ergo he went not into Hell Heerof I thus argue Christ descended into the virgins wombe as your selfe say ergo he came not into the world Or thus Christ descended into the world ergo he descended not into the graue Christ was borne of the virgin came into the world to reconcile vs to his Father by his death taking away our sinnes and triumphing in his owne person ouer death and hell 319 Therefore not only Christ came downe into the world but as our body for sinne lyeth in the graue so his body went into the graue and because our soule was mancipate vnto hell his soule went into hel that by his discending our soules might bee freed from hell In your next reason you say that Christ descended thither whence he ascended now that is meerely false as appeereth Math. 12. 40. For as Ionas was in the whales belly 3 dayes and 3. nights so shall the Sonne of man be 3. daies and 3. nightes in the hart of the earth Now Christ ascended from the superficies of the earth but he descended into the hart of the earth Therefore as this is no good argument Christ ascended from the mount ergo he ascended not from the graue so this is also a weake argument Christ ascended from the world ergo he went not into hell M. Hume lyeth in his bed and early ariseth afterward many seeing him he rideth towards Bromham ergo M. Hume came from Bath and not from his bed Then you adde this reason if Christ descended into hell then it was 30. yeeres after his birth and so it was not one motion you charge me with cloudes of sophistry but heer is a thick mist of sophistications what you meane by this motion I know not but all the actions of our Sauiour are aptly deuided into humility and glory of his humility there are 4. degrees First he came into the virgins womb secondly into the world thirdly to the graue fourthly to hel Of his glory and exaltation likewise there are foure degrees First he came out of hell and the graue secondly he conuersed in the earth thirdly hee was carried in the aire in a cloud and then entred the heauens with glory Also where you say that if hell were the place whyther he descended it must needs be the place from whence he ascended This as I haue saide before is vtterly false if you meane the immediate place from whence he ascended for it is known to all beleuers that Christ did descend into the graue but he did not ascend immediatlye from the graue therefore your reason is against the Scripture wher you make a distinction betwene the resurrection and the ascention you may vnderstande if it please you that Eph. 4. 9. The word ascend containeth in it al y ◠degrees of Christs exaltation therfore the resurrection also as the word descend doth comprehēd all the degrees of Christs humilitie HVME his Reioynder IT is as easie to holde an Eele by the taile as you to the question The place whereon wee stand is in the 4. 9. to the Ephes But that hee ascended what is it but that hee first descended into the lower-moste partes of the earth Which wordes most of the learned and many of your owne favorites takes to be as if he had said that the Sonne of God cloathed in mans nature is ascended vp to heauen what is it but that the same Sonne of God first came downe into the lower-most partes of the earth and tooke on him mans nature so that hee which descended is euen the selfe same that is ascended to fulfill all things and giueth nowe these gifts to men to bee some Apostles some Prophetes some Evangelistes c. And so they take the lower-most parts of the earth not to be the center of the earth in respect of his highest and extreame superficies but the whole earth in respect of the heuens Or if you like not that which notwithstanding is most receaued amongst the learned the base estate that hee descended into in respect of the high estate that he descended from To ouerthrowe this interpretation you alledge that the Hebrew wordes ERETSTACHTITH is in that language the proper name of Hell To proue it you alledge the places which I haue confuted in the former 2. sectiōs After which labour I gathered some reasons from the infallible rules of nature to proue that this place cannot carie your sense My grounds were Vnius motus vnum est principium vnus finis And contrariorum motuum vnius res moventis principium vnius est finis alterius contra For example East and West South and North vp and downe are contraries If anie thing runne west-warde and return east-ward the furthest point that it runneth towards the west is the beginning of the motion towards the east or if a man come down a high hill and returne vp againe The lowest steppe that he came downe is the first step of his going vp Whervpon thus I resoned The beginning of Christs ascending
that spoake breake Now heere beholding the maior and the minor two brasen vnbreakable walles you set all your teeth on the poore conclusion to pull it from them To take this place of this Psalme quite from vs you alledge the holie Ghost and Peter two sufficient witnesses because they referre this place to the resurrection and we to the passion Allace good Doctor vbiacumen tuum Doe not you see man that though the negatiue Thou wilt not leaue my soule in hell pertaineth to the resurrection yet the affirmatiue that his soule was in hell may pertaine to his passion Peter alledgeth the negatiue in the Psal to proue his resurrection and our question is not whether hee rose againe or not but whether the thing wherein he was is to bee taken for the place or the panges of hell And heere I muste needes confesse that this consideration hath driuen mee quite from Calvine whome in this place I first followed As for the place of the beleefe I am perswaded that his sense is moste agreable beeing godlie consonant to the Scriptures necessarie for the perfection of the creede not repugnant to the circumstances thereof and moste comfortable to a Christian conscience But in this place of this Psal now I see that Olevians opinion is truer more consonant to the rest of the text and more plaine against your drousie dreame Wherfore now I am perswaded that SHEOL is heer set for the state of the dead and my soule for mee as it is Psal 3. 2. Manie say to my soule that is to mee And Psal 7. 2. Least hee devoure my sonle lyke a Lyon that is mee And Psal 6. 3. My soule is sore troubled that is I am sore troubled So the sense must bee Thou wilt not leaue my soule in Hell that is mee amongest the deade That this must needes bee the true sense heereof I haue two reasons First that this was the SHEOL wherein Christes soule was not left whence hee rose againe as may appeare by this allegation of Peter But hee rose again from the graue and condition of the deade not from hell and condition of the damned Ergo the SHEOL wherein Christs soule was not left is the condition of the dead and not the place of the damned The answere here that he rose in soule and body the one from hell and the other from the graue will not holde for the name of resurrection belongeth onelie to the bodie because nothing ryseth againe but that which death laide downe So hath our beleefe the resurrection of the bodie not the resurrection of the soule This was M. Fieldes argument which did choake you in the act at Oxonford and hang so fast in your teeth that hee coulde not get it out of your mouth much lesse an answere to it The other is builded vpon the wordes of Peter Act. 2. 19. Men and brethren I may boldlie speake to you of the patriarch Dauid that hee is dead and buried and his sepulchre is amongest vs to this day In which wordes expounding this place of the Psalme Thou wilt not leaue my soule in hell nor suffer thy holie one to see corruption hee laboureth to proue that Dauid spake not this of himselfe but of the Messias that was to come of his loines His reason is because Dauid is deade and buried and his sepulchre remained amongest them as if he had said because Dauids soule was left in Hell and saw corruption For where the negatiue is not true there the affirmatiue muste bee true by the rule of contradiction Wherevpon thus I reason Dauids soule that is Dauid himself as I haue said before was left in the SHEOL wherin Christs soule should not be left But Dauids soule was left in the state and condition of death Ergo it was the state and condition of death wherein Christes soule was not left by this place The same argument may bee formed negatiuelie to take away your exposition of this place Dauids soule was left in the SHEOL wherof it is said in the Psalme Thou wilt not leaue my soule in Hell nor suffer thy holie one to see corruption But Dauids soule was not left in the place of the damned Ergo it is not the place of the damned whereof it is said in the Psalme Thou wilt not leaue my soule in hell nor suffer thy holie one to see corruption Wheras some alledge against this interpretation that it doeth violate the text taking the soule first for the whole man the whole againe for the bodie Let them consider that the condition of the dead expressed heere in the name of SHEOL pertaineth not to the body only but to the whole man Neither were it injurie to the text if it be so taken For the cup is set for wine and wine for the blood of Christ by Paull himself who vseth not to violate wordes These reasons therefore haue led mee from Calvine whome though I reuerence as he is well worthie as much as anie man yet I am not so maried to him howsoeuer M. Doct. is perswaded otherwise to folloâ—e him the bredth of a haire beyond truth and reason Hee may bee deceaued aswell as others though he hath plunged through manie deepes that haue devoured manie Nowe to returne againe and to followe vpon your walke you charge mee heere as euerie where with an vntruth To fasten it vpon mee you turne my wordes out of their figured coate into their bare skinne For whereas I say that Christ suffered the whole tormentes of hell vpon the crosse taking the drosse by a Synecdoche for the whole passion as he did before mee which said God forbid that I delight in any thing but in the crosse of Christ The preaching of the crosse is to manie foolishnes Christ reconciled vs to God by his Crosse You tell mee that it is most vntrue because he did not suffer his whole torments on the wodden Crosse which Symon the Cyrenian did beare on his backe And to make my wordes more odious you do them more injurie For whereas I say hee suffered the whole tormentes of Hell on the Crosse a thing defend-able you charge mee as saying he suffered all his torments vpon the Crosse meaning the Crosse of wood a thing without shewe of truth In the ende to fasten another little faulte on me it is but blasphemie you wring my last wordes in the fame presse For whereas I say that a word of double signification standeth at the courtesie of the reader to be taken as shall seeme most probable meaning that there is nothing in the word it self to lead the mynde to one signification more then another but depends vpon the probable circumstances and drift of the text you charge mee as making the Scriptures like a nose of waxe to bee set which way mens fantasie will bend it a thing as farre out of my penne as out of my heart and as far out of my heart as it is out of your heart to take my
is the other For as Athanasius saith in his booke of the incarnation of the word Death Could not prevaile on the humaâ—e soule of Christ to tye him there neither corruption inâ—ading his body by â—iranny could shewe her force on him to putrefaction as things not well seene vnto for to thinke so of him were a wicked thing for even as Adam had a double punishement inflicted on him for his disobedience the on was on his body earth thou art and to earth thou shalt returne and so by this decree the body of the Lord departed vnto the earth but to the soule hee said Thou shalt dye the death Hereof it commeth to passe that man is deuided into 2. parts and is condemned to depart to 2. places and therefore it was necessary that the selfe same Iudge which had made this decree that hee by himselfe being vnder the colour of a condemned man shuld free from that sentence all beleuers Here you see by this learned Father that Christs soule went to Hell to deliuer our soules from hell and his body to the graue to deliuer vs from death by this means both body and soule personally and not potentially as you teach working our deliuerance from death and hell haue those prerogatiues which Dauids soule and body had not And for this coâ—sideration though the one was in the graue and the other in hell yet both were in the handes of the Lord. Heere then wee must learne what the hands of the Lord do signifie Sometime the hand of god doth signifie the Sonne of God Psal 144. 7. Send thy hand from aboue Sometime it signifieth the power of God Psalm 136. 12. With a mighty hand and outstretched arme Thirdly the bountifulnes of God Psal 145. Thou openest thy hand and fillest euery liuiug thing with thy blessing Foâ—rthly it signifieth consolation Ezec. 3. 22. The hand of the Lord was with me comforting me Fiftly grace Psal 118. 16. The right hand of the Lord â—ath done valiantly Sixtly it signifieth the gift of prophecie Ezec. 8. The hand of the Lord fel there vpon me Seuenthly mercy Psal 37. 24. Though he fall he shall not be cast off for the Lord putteth vnder his hand Eightly the protection of the Lord Psal 31. 15. My times are in thy hand Ninthly the aide of the Lord Psal 74. 11. Why withdrawest thou thy hand Tenthly the punishment of the Lord Iob. 19. 21. Haue pitie on me ô yee my frinds for the hande of the Lord hath touched me Lastly it signifieth the Gouernment of the Lord Psal 95. 4. In his hand at al the corners of the earth This place therefore must needes haue this construction into thy consolation mercie protection and gouernment I will commend my soule I hope you your selfe commende your soule into the handes of God euery day but yet you minde not to goe to heauen immediatly So saide Dauid Psal 30. 5. Into thy handes I commend my spirit but hee went not to heauen in manye yeares after neither did Christ ascende into heauen in many dayes after but went downe to hell where it was in the protection and gouerement of the Godhead which as you confesse descended into hell For as we being in the damned world are in the protection and hand of the highest so Christ being in the place of the damned after a wonderfull manner was also in the Lords aide and protection by meanes whereof he hath wrought our deliverance from hell Therfore proue you that Chirst went straitway to heauen and you shal effect that which many of your side haue attempted but neuer yet any coulde bring to passe It is written of Procustes that if any were too short for his bâ—â— he would not stretch theÌ„ out and make them fit for his lodging so you this place being too short to fit your wast will enlarge it with a word immediatly which is not the place primitiue or derivatiue expressely or by way of implication Moreouer where you say if I will answer this place I must proue that he that mindeth to go to hell doth vse these words I wonder that you dar vse such blasphemons speeches for hereby you insinuate that Christ was but a meere man that other men haue a part in the work of our redemption aswell as Christ For as he is our only Sauior so as Luth. saith on Gen 21. Chapter This was singular in Christ Thou shalt not leaue my soule in Hell nor suffer thy holy one to see corruption for this soule could not be deteined in hell nor his body in graue For as this was singular in Christ that hee did giue vp his ghost so was it singular in him to go to hell and returne again Ambrose saith Tradidit spiritum suum quia non inuitus amisit quod enim emittitur volunt arium est quod amittitur necessarium He gaue vp the ghost because hee lost not his soule against his will for that which is emited is voluntarie but that which is amitted is necessary Theophilact sayth hee cryed out with a loude voice and gaue vp the ghost for he had power to lay downe his life and take it vp again Now when you can proue that you or any of your side haue this power in you to dye when hee will and liue againe when hee will then will I prooue that hee that speaketh these words Into thy hands I commende my spirit hath an intent to goe to Hell But as Christ his birth was a singular thing in him so was his death buriall descending in to hel resurrection and assension into heauen Eccle. 8. 8. Man is not Lord ouer the spirite to retaine the spirit And Iohn 10. 18. Christ saith No man taketh my life from me but I lay it downe of my selfe I haue power to lay it downe and power to take it vp againe By these two places it is euident that no man can lay downe his owne spirite but the only sonne of God had that prerogatiue and therefore as the laying downe of his spirit and the taking vp of his spirit againe was wonderfull so was the state of the soule and body during the time of the seperation of the parts of the humanity singular and wonderfull Absurdities admitted in this sect by the D. First that Christ did descend in soule and bodie take it how he will is absurde If he meane into Hell taking Hel as he would haue it that is in soule onlie If into the graue it was in bodie onelie If into the wombe of the Virgine It was in Diuinitie onelie 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Second If Christes soule had not gone to the locall Hell Dauids must and his and mine contrarie to the suffiencie of Christs sacrifice Third That Christes soule and bodie besides innocencie had other prerogatiues then Dauids had Contrarie to
prooue with witnesses But in one thing you seeme farre heere to ouer-shoot your selfe Your mates reason against vs that the pangs of Hell which went before the buriall cannot bee ment by these wordes following it You open your owne side to that blowe and put the discending into the locall Hell before his buriall also and make that argument stronger against your self then you finde it against vs. Thus you see al this great winde is ouerblowne and shakes no corne HVME his 8. Sect. HEere to let this passe your next reason is from that place of Paul But that he ascended what is it els but that he first descended into the lowermost parts of the earth Where you holde that the lowermost partes of the earth muste needes signifie the pit of Hell Which thing if it were so sure as you beare in hand I wonder that no Diuines I speake of the modester sorte did yet gather heereupon that the place of Hell were the verie center of the earth But wheras you avouche so confidentlie that ERETS TACHTITH doth signifie Hel as properlie in Hebrew as hel doth in English though I meane not to stand with you for the tongue yet pardon mee to dissent from you in this For in the places which you quote it can not in my simple vnderstanding carie that sense Your first place is They which seek my soule shall go down into the lowermost partes of the earth which cannot bee meant of Hell except these reasons deceaue mee First it might seeme a presumption to enter so farre into Gods secrets as to judge his owne priuate enemies Next it should seeme not to stand with the affections of a godlie heart to ascribe that place to his enemies out of the horrour wherof there is no redemption For the children of God do rather pray for their enemies desire their amendement This place may be wel construed of the graue For it is an argument vsed by the Prophete to lay the pride of them that sought his soule and to solace himself recording that their hatred should haue an end wheÌ„ the graue should swallow them The wordes â—ollowing confirme this sense That they shall fal vpon the edge of the sword which cannot be vnderstood but of temporall death HIL his reply INdeed I brought this place Eph. 4. 9. to proue that Christ descended into Hell And whereas you charge me with immodesty for so alleadging of it I must needs charge you with two vntruths in answering this allegatioÌ„ The one is y â— I called it the pit of Hel which phraise I neuer vsed The other is you haue impudently aâ—ouched that none of the modester sorte of diuines haue euer alleadged this place to proue the descending of Christ into â—el 223 For many and those both learned and modest haue alledged this place to this purpose Athanasius interpreting this Epistle and texte thus writeth Into what place did he desceÌ„d Into hel truly which he calleth according to the coÌ„mon opinioÌ„ of men the lowest parts of the earth Ambrose on this place saith thus This Christ therefore comming downe from heauen into the earth was borne a man afterward he dyed and descended into hell from whence rising the third day he went vp to heauen before all mortall men that hee might shewe deth to be vanquished to every creature Chrisostome on this place saith Hee went to those partes of the earth then the which nothing is lower and from thence lies ascended into heauen then the which nothing is higher The like hath Augustine li. de Trin. chap. 19. Ieromâ— on this text thus noteth That Hell is vnder the earth noe man doubteth for he that descended in soule into hell asceÌ„ded both body soule into heaueÌ„ Mollerus a learned Minister of Germany on the sixtene Psalme saith that the descending into hel is plainly proued out of the Ephesians the fourth chapter Musculus on the 68. Psalm thus writeth This God which was in Christ reconciling the world vnto himself first descended into the lowest partes of the earth then he lead captuitie captiue and not only we ar deliuered from the captuity of Satan sinne death and damnation but also Christ triumphing ouer them aâ—tirants hath ascended aboue all heauens to fulfill all things Hemingius on the 2. Chapter to the Colossians thus also teacheth As by his deathe he conflicted with the enemye one the crosse so by his glorious descending into hell resâ—â—â—â—ection and Ascention he triumphed as it is Ephe 4. Leauing his cros lift vp as a monumeÌ„t of his victory To conclud Alesius a very learned preacher of Scotland on the 19. chapter of Iohn affirmeth that the 1. Pet. 3. Eph. 4. do manifestly proue the descending of Christ into hell if Athanasius Chrysostome Ambrose Augustine and Ierome of the old fathers and Mollerus Musculus Hemingius and Alesius of the new writers be all immodest diuines then haue you truelye saide but if in the iudgement of the learned all these were most reuerend men then most shameles are you to accuse them of the want of modesty More ouer where you say no diuine dare to dispute where hell is it is true in some sort for no diuine can 252 circumscribe the place of hel which is infinite nor yet of heauen only the word of God affirmeth that heauen is aboue Gal. 4. 26. And hell is beneath Prouerbs 15. 24. Therefore the lowest parts of the earth may well be taken for hel Then you goe further say that ERETS TAGHTITH doth not signifie hell Psal 63. and for this you bring two reasons the one is y â— it were a presumption in the Prophet to iudge his enemies 2. that it standeth not with the affections of a godly minde to assign hell to his enemies but to pray for them to your first reason this I answer In the Psalm 9. 18. Dauid useth the like speeche The wicked shall be turned into hell and all the people that forget God which text Caluin thus expoundeth the Hebrewe word SHEOLâ—â— which was doubtfull I haue not doubted to translate hell for though it doth not displease me that others 〈◊〉 it Sepulcher yet it is sure heer is som thing noted besides common death otherwise he should speak nothing of the reprobate but that which did generally happen to al beleuers In the hundred and â—inth Psalme also Dauid thus praieth Let Satan stand at his right hand let his prayer be turned into sinne let the wickednes of his Father be had in remembrance in the sight of the Lord and let not the sinne of his mother be done away **** Do you think this to bee spoken presâ—â—tuously Many such texts could 〈◊〉 alleadge to proue that Dauid inspired with the spirit of prophecye did foretel not only of the tragicall destruction of the bodies of his
heere now knowe if you knowe it not that I haue such reasons not to take your signification of SHEOL heere as shoulde carie you as well as mee if your wit were not maried to your wil. First though the Assyrians and Babilonians of whome the Prophetes speak in these places were heathens and damnable miscreants yet it was not their purpose to speake heere of their aeternall damnation but of the dishonorable destruction of their temporal kingdomes Secondlie that which Esay in the 9. vers calleth Hell he calleth four times the graue and twise the pit in the same chap. Thirdlie in the same ver which you quote hee saieth that hell raising vp the dead even all the Princes of the earth did meete the king of Babell But all the dead euen the Princes of the earth were not in the Hell of the dāned Fourthlie in the 11. ver he calleth the place into the which the King of Babell was brought the graue with wormes vnder and ouer him But that cannot be the place of the damned Ergo the place of which he speketh heere cannot be the place of the damned Fiftlie in the 15. and 16. verses hee saieth When hee was brought downe to the graue to the sides of the pit they that sawe him shoulde say is this hee that made the earth to tremble But men coulde not see and looke into his falling into the place of the damned Ergo the place whereof he there speaketh is not the place of the damned Thus much for Esay For Ezechiel First in the 14. verse he joyneth the lower-moste parts of the earth with them that goe downe into the pit and in the 16. verse hee joineth the going to hell with the same But to descend into the pit is to goe downe into the graue not into hell Ergo both the lower-most partes of the earth and SHEOL heere is taken for the graue Secondlie in the same 14. verse the nether partes of the earth is the pit and place of death common to all the children of men But the pit and place of death common to all men is not the place of the damned Ergo the low er-most partes of the earth is not heere the place of the damned Thirdlie in the 16. verse The Lord did make the nations of the earth to shake at the sound of his fall when he did cast him downe into Hell But the nations of the earth heard not nor felt not his fall into the Hell of the damned Ergo this is not vnderstood of the Hell of the damned All these reasons had I and they made mee dare to translate SHEOL not the place of the damned but graue And therfore M. Doctor you may cease to wonder at mee if you will And nowe I must wonder also at your manner of reasoning That the lower-moste partes of the earth doeth signifie Hell saye you I will prooue it by the 12. verse of the same Chap. of Ezech. And the strangers haue destroyed him euen the terrible nations c. Then not finding your purpose there you runne to Munster Lavater and Pellicane that the King of Asshur was the prey of carnivorous byrds and yet not finding to satisfie you you wring out a consequence that if he was deuoured of beasts then he was not buried if he was not buried then hee was not in the graue If he was not in the graue then the lowermost parts of the earth wherin he was must needs be Hell Where I tell you I must needs wonder how you could leape so many ditches without a staffe to finde Hell in this verse For all the load you lay vpon me here of ignorance misvsing the text I did not take one such leape in all my Letter As for my instance out of the 139. psalme that SHEOL doth not alwayes signifie Hell but may signifie the mothers wombe you say it is childish reason prooue it with a Catholik rule that Argumentum ductum à Metaphora non valet I knowe not what you mean by an argumēt à metaphora This is the first time that euer I hard metaphora suspected to be a topick place yet I haue heard good argumēts in metaphorical words Christ himself the best logician that euer I knew had wont to make many such As for example The seruant that putteth not his Lords talent to the vantage shal be cast into vtter darknes where shal be weping gnashing of teeth But al ministers that labour not faithfully in their charges are such Ergo all ministers that labor not faithfully in their charge shal be cast into vtter darknes c. I beleeue at the latter day when arguments wil be as well sifted as euer they were in the school-streats at Oxen. this will be found a good argument for all the metaphora that is in it As for my argument I see not how it is a metaphora Though the signification of the word be metaphorical as Caluin wel noteth yet it serueth my turne to prooue that it is not alwayes Hell And now you put me in minde of it I will picke another argument out of the same place that perhapps will trouble you worse That is the naturall signification of euery worde whence the metaphoricall is taken But this signification of these wordes the lowermost parts of the earth is taken from the dennes and cauernes of the earth as you note me out of Caluine Ergo the proper◠signification of this worde is the dennes and cauernes of the earth and not Hell of the damned Of this judgement is Mercerus Cevalerus and Cornelius Bertramus in their additions to Pagnines Lexicon You confute Beza and me for applying these wordes to the place of the Ephes thus He that descended is euen the same that ascended But he ascended in soule and bodie Ergo he descended in soule and bodie which is not true of his descending into the virgins womb And here you charge vs with ignoraunce or wilfull denying the Incarnation of Christ Good M. D. vse me as you wil but be good to Beza he hath bene well thought of as yet I wonder that seeing so much against him and me you coulde not see the same against your self You hold that this is ment of his descending into the local Hell against which thus I vse your owne reason He that descended is euen the same that ascended But he ascended bodie soule Ergo he descended into Hell bodie soule a thing that you haue not yet granted Howe you will answere for your selfe I leaue it to yourself I haue answered sect 5. for Beza and me see there We denie not the incarnation of Christ you purge vs your self within fiue lines Wherfore you might haue let Theoph. alone if you had no more skill to proue thinges not denyed then the things in question and controuerted HVME Sect. 10. BVt to let you alone with your Hebrewe these wordes of the Apostle can no wayes be taken for Hell as you beare vs in hand
suffered a violent death For thanatotheis being deriued of thanateo must needs signifie put to death Now I hope you wil not say Christ was put to deth in soul body but in body only And wher you say that Christ suffered in soule aswell as in body that is true that is gathered not of thanatotheis y â— is killed but out of these words antecedent for Christ suffered the iust for the vniust No reasonable man but hee will say that the sufferings of Christ are comprised rather in the word suffered then in y â— word killed To your fourth reason I reply that Christ was raysed from the dead but it is specially signified in the word resurrection ver 21. therfore I do not confound those things that are distinguished but your selfe for you make suffered and killed all one and quickned and the resurrection all one and so mak not only a confusion but a tautology and needelesse repetition which neuer was read in the word of God To your fift argument where you say zoopoiâ—isthai is to receaue life I confesâ—e it is to be made aliue Then you vrge it can not be spoken of y â— soule which neuer lost life Then by y â— same reason more strongly it can not be spoken of the Godhead which hath doth shal liue for euer for God caÌ„ not receaue life but y â— soule is said to liue when he is out of the body not because he liued not before but because y â— body doth hinder y â— actions of the soule Iohn 11. 25. He that beleeueth in mee though he were dead yet shall he liue Sap. 9 15. The corruptible body is heavie vnto the soule the earthie mansion keepeth downe the minde that is full of cares 2. Cor. 4 16. Therfore we faint not but though our outward man perish yet our inward man is dayly renewed Heere Paul sayth the weaker the body is y â— stronger is his soule therefore the death of the body is the life of the soule To drawe to ane ende your Antithesis of the Deuinitie humanitie is answered before For your Antithesis must be of things contrary or at the least diuers and seperate but as you affirme truly the Godhead was never seperated from the humanitie therefore this antithesis is of the body and soule which at this time were deuided and not betweene the deity and humanitie which were alwaies vnited wherfore this bulwarke I can assure you will stand and you haue ouershot both it your self in attempting to ouerthrow it For the very scope of the Apostle is this all Christians must suffer afflictions for well doing for Christ did not only suffer both in body and soule but also was put to a shamefull death in his body and in his soule went downe to the soules in hell which were vnbeleeuers in the dayes of Noah but Christ did arise againe from hel and the graue and ascended both in body soule to heauen therfore shal you that suffer for wel doing be deliuered from death and hel by his merits and goe vp into heauen and be partakers of his glory as you haue ben partakers of his affliction Moreouer as you referre mee to reade Bezas greate notes one this text so I pray you to reade Aretius handling this place whose words ar these Generally sayth Aretius Pet. repeateth three effectes of Christs death if you marke it wel The first pertaineth to the damned The second to the elect The third the person of Christ The first was declared in his descending in to hell The second in his resurrection The third in his ascention into heauen This is the true and naturall meaning of this place which wee will follow leauing the intrications of other interpretations I willinglye confesse this place is very hard for Augustine doubteth of it Luther douteth of it how it is to bee vnderstoode but this obscurity aryseth not of the place but of the varietie of interpretations If thou marke the plainnesse of the place the matter will be easye but that pleaseth not all men therefore that euery on may establish his owne sence they apply the words of the Apostle Peter to their owne conceit But leauing these let vs imbrace that which the words do teach vs in the which if we attaine to the truth it is well if not yet they shall bee probable because they haue warrant out of the scriptures and leane to the very letter to reto otherwise it is certain the knowledge of man to be vnperfect in many questions of holie scripture of the which the Apostle doth warne vs 1. Corin. 15. For now wee knowe vnperfectlie I haue sayd here is declared three effects of Christs death which differ in time are set in order in the Creede The first effect is that Christ being dead denounced eternal paines to the wicked in hell The words of the Apostle are these In which spirite he went and preached to the spirits detained in prison I take the place simply of the descence into hell for so the words do plainly sound and I see al the Fathers so to interpret them Augustine Epist 99. and Ciprian doth manifestly interpret this place of the descending into Hel. Neither doth the word prison hinder this Interpretation which in the Apocal. 20. 5. is taken for hel When a thousand yeers shal be fulfilled Satan shall be losed out of his prison Therefore the prison that Peter heere speaketh of is the place deputed to the damned Hyther came Christ as we confes in the Creede He went downe into Hell where Hell is it is a foolish curious question to enquire sith no man coÌ„ming to that place euer returned but only Christ Furthermore what Christ did there Peter expresseth he preached to the spirits that is he declared that he shewd himselfe manifestly to the world and made that dire and mornefull sermon namely to y â— wicked that the mirit of his death did nothing pertaine vnto them but by his presence were confirmed those punishments of the which Noah and other prophets had forwarned them And the tyme of this Preaching I referre not to the tymes of Noah but to the tyme of hys descending into Hell Wherevnto agreeth the worde pneumasi that is spirits for hee preached to the spirits that is to dead and not to liuing men Thus sarre Aretius I could heere alleage many other newe Writers whiche are of my iudgement but because you yeelde them no credite therefore of purpose I will omit them HVME his Reioynder to the 12. sect THis berrie is so confused that I can not finde where to enter my firret First I prooued that Beza whome we follow in this place doth no violence to the wordes but vseth them as hee findeth them vsed by Iohn Paull and Peter Which foundation beeing laide I answere your
participle ousi in that kind of phrase in Greek most necessarily alwaies implyed You reply not one worde to the purpose but charging vs with that we neuer spake nor thought that we take these spirits for the men in Noahs time you alleadge Christs words against vs Luk. 24. 39. But if you were a man that coulde marke the wordes of them that dispute against you take them as they are spoken you should finde that wee say not that hee preached to the spirites in the dayes of Noah But to the spirites that nowe are in prison and were disobedient in the dayes of Noah If you can anie waies turne Christs wordes in Luke to confute this you neede not to care what thinges you take vpon you to proue If you can proue that Noah preaching to the men of his time did not preach to their Spirites or that these spirits in prison which Peter speaketh heer of were not the same that rebelled in the dayes of Noah you may driue vs from this holde otherwise you may throw your cap at vs. Last of all you charge our construction with violence I answered that you do vs wrong charging vs with things that none of vs do speak Which answer you passe by with silence and so allow it for currant To these you haue added two new ones which to take away all scruple I will answere also First say you if the word phylake doth signifie hel then Christ did descend into hell But phylake doeth signifie Hell Ergo c. I denie the maior it will not follow though phylake doeth signifie hell as heere it doth indeed Metaphoricallie that therefore Christ descended into Hell neither doth the place that you quote of Math. proue that you would haue except you can proue also that phylake hath no other signification then the prison of vtter darknesse c. Your other reason is He that was killed dead and quickened did preach But it was Christ that was killed dead and quickned Ergo it was Christ that preached and not his Deitie Christ and not his Deitie M. Doctor Can Christ preach and not his Deitie You may say what you will If I had let fall such a word you would haue cried Crucifige But to answere you I denie the maior It is against the text He was mortified that is killed and dead in the fleshe and that preached not Hee was quickned in the spirite and in that hee went and preached That which preached was neither killed nor dead neither was it self quickened but Christ was quickened in it These are all your objections In my answere to your sermon I answered 10. of them You haue replyed to 6. of them and to the other 4. you haue giuen a pardon at large neuer to be troubled by you Your six replyes I haue heere rejoyned too and haue met your newe supplies at the encounter and haue sent them home to you for new help All your forces thus defeated and so mightie and resolute an armie against you if there bee anie conformitie in you if your neck be not so stiffe that no bridle can turn it I hope you will get you to Chippenhames pulpit and performe your promise HVME Sect. 13. THese things being thus I pray you good M. D. seeing you woulde haue vs vndoubtedly to beleeue that Christ descended into Hell Tel vs vndoutedly to what ende he should descend thither I trust you will not teach vs neither Augustine neither Ieromes lesson that he went thither to deliuer prisoners As for that new lesson that he went thither to triumph it standeth not with the maner of conquerours to shew the glorie of their conquest amongst the conquered but amongst them to whom the ioy of the victorie doth appertaine and for mine owne part I haue oftentimes read the name of Hell ioyned with shame and ignomie but to this day I neuer hard it ioyned with triumph and glorie Neither seemeth it probable that if Christ had purposed to shewe the pompe of his conquest he woulde haue done it before his resurrection lest being yet in the handes of his enemie he had meâ—t him with the proverbe Ante victoriam c. To these reasons may be added that seeing his triumph was celebrated at one instance in Heauen Earth and Hell if the presence of his soule was required as you beare in hand it will followe that his soule was at one instant in these three places which is contrary to the nature of a soule You adde two other causes to binde the deuill and deliuer vs from hel You bring vs many places of Scripture to confirme this geare Gen. 3. 15. The seed of the woman shal break the Serpents head Ose 13 15. O death I will be thy death O hell I wil be thy destructioÌ„ 1. Cor. 15. 55. O death where is thy sting O hell where iâ— thy victorie In all which places there is not a sillable sounding that Christ descended into hell As for his triumphing ouer Hell we neuer denied it and do avouch that he performed that moste gloriouslie by the power of his God-head which did present his victorie ouer his enemies hell and death both to heven earth and Hel without the presence of his soule HIL his Reply YOu aske me why Christ descended into hell and yet you coÌ„fes I noted three ends of Christs descending into hell the one to triumph ouer the Diuels the other to binde the Diuels and to take away their power ouer mankind the 3. to deliuer vs from hell There was also set downe a fourth end that is to manifest his death vnto those in hel and to reproue them of their incredulity and heer labouring to catch me in a snare you are fallen into it your selfe for firste you say Christ conquered hell on the Crosse then as hauing forgotten your selfe you aske this question with admiration Howe could he conquer being in the graue Is it likly that hee would triumph before his victory First you stoutly affirme that he had conquered then you boldly deny it CoÌ„neniet nnlli qui secuÌ„ dissidet ipse Next you say you haue not read the name of hell but ioyned with shame and infamie why do you write then that the Godhead did triumph ouer hel Did you not read your owne writing I am sure in this place 1. Cor. 15. 55. O death where is thy sting O hell where is thy victory The nam of hel is ioined with triumph But you answere these places with a flat negatiue heere is not a sillable to proue the descending of Christ into hell I am sure Paule proueth heer the resurrection of Christ and of our soules and how can he proue the resurrection vnlesse hee proue the knitting together of the body and soule for as death is the parting of body soule so resurrection is the reuniting of them togither againe and heer Paule
sheweth that the body comming out of the graue the soule from hell Christ did conquere both And therefore it is not the deity as you say but the humane nature of Christ y â— did vanquish death Hell Heb. 2. 14. For as much then as the children were partakers of flesh and bloud he also him selfe likewise took parte with them that hee might destroy through death him that had power of death that is the Diuil There fore Hemingius on the Col. 2. saith As on the Crosse he conflicted with the diuill so by the glorious descending into hell resurrection and ascention hee did triumph Therfore these places proue his descending into hell as well as the buriall for the reason of y â— apostle is this Christ cam out of the graue ergo he conquered death and Christ came out of hell ergo he ouer came hell Therefore thus I reason against you that did conquere which did fight but the human nature of Christ did fight ergo it did also conquere is gone vp into heauen to whom the Angels powers and mightes be subiect 1. Pet. 3. 22. Col. 2. 25. phil 2. 9. 10. Eph. 1. 20. 21. 22. Therefore sith all these Scriptures do witnes that Christ as man did triumph and is exalted and hath al power I doubt not but in your next answere you will reforme your iudgement HVME his Reioynder to the 13. sect I Beseech thee good Reader take a little paines heer to mark the honest dealing of this D. Whet I say Christ could not triumph beeing in the bonds of death hee for triumph sets conquer to make them contrarie to my former words that Christ did conquere Hell vpon the crosse It is one thing to coÌ„quere another thing to triumph Pompey conquered the mightie Mithridates in Syria but hee triumphed at Rome amongst his freends that were pertakers of the joy Againe where I say with Augustine that the name of Hell is joined with shame not with honour meaning the name of hell is shamefull not glorious he takes mee to say that the name of hell cannot stand in a sentence with a word of honour quotes against mee 1. Cor. 15 55. Hell where is thy victorie in which place hell and victorie are separated as if hee had saide Hell thou hast no victorie Thirdlie whereas I say that Christ triumphed by the power of his Deitie presenting his victorie to heauen earth and Hell he giues out that I say that the Godhead triumphed and not the humanitie notes in the margent Hume contrarie to Paule and Peter and wils mee to reforme this fault in my next reply This is M. D. arte If his cause were so good as he would haue it seeme he needed not this cunning or if he caried as honest a minde as he did protest in Chippenham pulpit hee would rather performe his promise then seeke such vn-christian-like shiftes to maintaine a bad cause Now to answere his cavils I ask you M. Doct. why you send Christ to hell notwithstanding the three ends that you had noted because those endes were no endes thereof and because the Scripture doeth teach that hee had performed all those ends by the conquest of Hel vpon this crosse You brought texts of Scripture to prooue them and I answered truely that not one of them soundeth anie sillable that way For in all those places there is not a letter neither of his descending into hell nor of his triumphing ouer hell You replie that those texts do proue the resurrection which is not true of all neither and that the resurrection is a knitting of the soule and bodie together and that the knitting of them together was by bringing his soule from Hell this is your principle and his bodie from the graue Now add the conclusion that hee that proueth Christs resurrection proueth his descending into hell If this reason bee good I will yeelde For now if it will holde you haue found a way to proue your opinion by all the Scriptures When Christ cured the blinde mans eies with spittle it is plaine that he was a man If he was a man he was mortall and died If hee died his soule went to hel this is your vndoubted principle and his bodie to the graue Ergo he that writes that Christ cured the blinde mans eies with spittle doeth write that hee went to Hell By this hooke you may pull all the Scriptures out at the window and make them proue what pleaseth you HVME his 14. Sect. YOu alledge for confirmation of the second How can a man enter into a strong mans house and spoyle his goodes except first hee binde the strong man Here is not that which you vndertooke to prooue that he descended into hell to binde the deuilles This house whereof here is spoken is to any man of judgments eye by circumstance of the place not Hell but this worlde whereof the deuill had taken possession and polluted many hearts out of the which he was cast by Christ who thereby prooueth himselfe to be stronger then he and not to woorke myracles in the name of Beel-zebub as the Pharises did beare the simple people in hand HIL his Reply YOur interpretation is true and the other true also for Christ did not onlie ouercome the Diuell in y â— world but also in Hell For as Cyrill noteth on this place there was before the comming of Christ much violence taking away the flock of God and carrying them to his owne house wherefore before the comming of Christ the heathen and people of the worlde went into eternall death But Christ hath deliuered both their bodies froÌ„ the graue and their soules from Hell by his death and personall descending into Hell This place is alleadged by one Georgius Princeps Anhaltinus in his learned commentaries on the 16. Psalm which you may read if you please For as Dauid trampled on the face of Goliah so did the soule of Christ trample on Satan in hell and trode on his face and this is noted by the Prophetesse Sibilla as also by the â—eathen Poets whose wordes I haue set down in my sermon at large And therefore Clenard in his grammer giueth this obseruation katelthonta eis adou id est eis otkian tou adou he went down into hell that is into the house of Hell HVME his Reioynder to the 14. Sect. YOu graunt my interpretation to bee true but I will not graunt yours except you bring better warrant then your self and a man that I neuer sawe You will mee to buy him I am not so well purst as to buy him onlie to see this that you quote him for my interpretation is defend-able without him It standeth so sure vpon the text that you confesse it your selfe You would faine shoulder in yours too and make the Scriptures double tongued but I haue learned that one text hath but one true meaning Though
this distinction refute the argument which is made of those that ar on your side who thus conclude Christ sayde on the crosse It is finished Ergo hee went not downe to to hell By the same reason I thus argue Christ said on y â— crosse It is finished Ergo he did not shed his bloud nor was buried nor rose againe nor ascended into heauen to fulfill all things Ephes 4. 10. for if all things were then fulfilled on the crosse what neede he to ascende to fulfill all things Therfore I did proue that this argumeÌ„t of yours did mak no more against the descending into hell then against the sheading of his bloud burial resurrection ascention or iudgement al which are necessary to our weale and perfit consummation Farther to proue my distinction to be true I did then quote that as Christ is said to be the Lamb slaine from the beginning of the world so the death of Christ did reach to the first beleeuers and shall do to the last Which consummation by hope is so enioyed as if wee possessed it already for all the promises of Christ are yea and Amen 2. Cor. 1. 20. Therfore I told you this argument It is finished ergo Christ went not down to hel was a fallacy a dicto secundum quid ad simpliciter And I noted how these words were to be vnderstod First that al the scripture and prophecies were fulfilled for so the text noteth Secondly it is finished doth signifye there is no other sacrifice for sinne for by one sacâ—ifice once offred he hath made perfite all that shall be sanctified Hebr. 10 14. And therefore the Papists ioyning y â— merits of Saints with the mirits of Christ doo erre moste shamefully Thirdly it was finished as concerning all his labours and sorrowes Fourthly al his suffrings both of body soule were ended which he finished on y â— crosse Briefly his obedience to his Father was ended for he yelded a pure perfit and perpettuall obedience to his Father and therfore had al power giuen him in heauen earth and hel Moreouer I did proue this interpretation by this text 1. Cor. 15. 54. Then shall be brought to pas the saying that is written ô death where is thy sting O hell where is thy victory and did alleage Beda Peter Martyr and Musculus vp on this place all which were of my iudgement and therefore you had noe more cause to wonder at mee then at these learned men whome all the reformed Churches of England doe reuerence Last of al you seeme to charge me as though I had sayd that Christ went downe to suffer which thing I neuer mentioned but that hee wente downe to manifest his death to triumph in his owne person ouer the Diuell and personally to redeme vs from hell Then you call them dunces whence I had that destinction I had it from Musculus and Musculus from the word of God therefore you must embrace these distinctions or else you will speake erroneouslie Omnia prohate quod bonum est tenete Try all things holde that which is best This work is worthy my wit or any other Interpreters Neither will I leaue the ware that is in my poore pack for all the treasures of Egypt An absurditie in the D. Reply That Christ beeing nailed handes and feete to the Crosse died without shedding of blood HVME his Reioynder to the 15. sect OVr opinion is that Christ vpon the Crosse did offer a perfect sacrifice for our sinnes and finish the whole worke of our redemption This we proue by his owne last words It is finished For after the manner of men who hauing brought their worke to the last stroake say they haue done withall make an end Hee hauing borne all the malice that death and Hell could inflict told the standers by that hee had done And this hee did immediatlie before hee gaue vp the ghost because hee could not as hee was man tell them the same after that he was dead Neither wanted this speach great reason It was to make full our hope and to confirme our faith which otherwise might haue stood in suspense For seeing our sinnes had deserued not onelie the temporall death which the beholders did see him die but also all the deathes of Hell which they nor no mortal eie could see him suffer He tolde them himself that hee had finished and done all that there might remaine no scruple for vs to doubt of Thus therefore wee reason against these men If Christ finished the whole worke of our Redemption vpon the crosse there remained nothing for him to do in hel But he did finishe the whole worke of our redemption vpon the Crosse Ergo there remained nothing for him to do in hell This Syllogisme is so strong that you dare not denie one syllable of it Wherfore when I hard you in the pulpit violate the text wheron it staÌ„deth I could not choose but tell you that you ranne beyond your selfe and made your audience feare least you would haue sent Christ to Hell to suffer an error indeede but such as some better divines then your self that sealed the truth with their blood to avoid the absurdities of your opinioÌ„ did fall into in King Edwards time when your opinion was most generallie embraced and confirmed by convocation Whereas you say that I say much and proue little I proue as much as I intend It was not my purpose to confute anie thing that you had spoken trulie For these words it is finished are not to be referred to the instant when they were spoken but to the end of his passion which immediatly followed This you confesse and why should I confute you Or which is stranger howe could you finde a contrarietie in my wordes and see none in your owne speaking the same that I doe But this is amongest much more worse then this the frute of your malice And heer in your sermon at Chippenham there was no more between vs but onlie that you made a countenance to confute that which we avouch you confes convaying your batterie in such sorte that you made the beholders thinke that you plaied vpon our sconce but in very deede did â—euell all your ordinance another way But now you are growne somewhat further from mee for though you confesse that Christ went not to hell to suffer and that he died immediatlie after he said It is finished yet you denie that this was the end of his worke Your reason is that hee had not shed his blood and that without shedding of blood there is no remission of sinnes And may wee beleeue you M. Doctor That Christ was nailed hands and feet to the crosse without shedding of his blood If you will haue vs so credulous as to thinke this may be true first resolue vs of what grief Christ died in not much more
might seeme to haue fled the brunt of your answere I am sorie that it fell out so For God is my witnesse I sought not mine own praise but did seek the truth Exâ—use my rashe enterprise in writing to you without anie acquaintance Let my loue of the truth which pricked mee for-warde and your challenge which set mee a worke excuse that fault if it was anie Far-well in the Lorde God giue vs al vnderstanding hearts Your freend though vnacquainted ALEXANDER HVME HIL his Reply Truth it is I did preach since a Leicock because I hard that M. Wisdome had set that opinion of yours abroche againe at Cosham I did heere also confirme mine Not because I am desirous to be contâ—tious but because I would haue no Christian man to doubt of the articles of his Faith you aske me what comforâ—able or necessarye matter you denye that wee doe preach I answere and I pray you consider oâ— it wee are borne in sinne how are we deliuered from sinne but by Christ which was conceiued by the holy Ghoste wee haue the magnitude of sinnes with Peter the multitude of sins with Mary Magdalen the turpitude of sins with the woman taken in adultery the infamy of sinnes with the Publican the diuturnity of sinnes with the theefe on the gallowes the cruelty of sinnes with paule and the recidiuation into sinnes with diuers of the Saints yet if wee repent wee are pardoned for Chrisâ—es sake who purely perfectly perpetualy obeyed the law of God By reason of our sins we ar subiect to al punishmeÌ„ts both corporal and spiritual and to the wrath of God All the punishments due to vs did Christ suffer vpon the crosse both in body and soul and therfore it is called his Passion He suffered in the Garden in Annas and Caiphas house in Pilats hal but vpon the crosse as you say truly he suffered the agonies of death tormenets of hell Further by reason of sin this was laide vpon the first Parentes Thou shalt die the death so by reason of this sentence not only the body was condemned to death but the soul to damnation To deliuer vs from these two punishments the soule of Christ went to hell and returned and the body of Christ that lay dead in the graue rose again mightily naturallye speedily and happely Beesides Christ rose in deede he gaue himselfe to be felte and handled herevpon wee are assured that he conquered death and hell He ascended into Heauen and therfore our praiers are hard when we pray vnto him and he giueth vs gifts for our ministry and so he shall come to iudgement at the last day to giue vs perfect blessednes You confess that Christ was borne in deede liued and fulfiled the law in the likenes of our flesh sinne excepted he dyed in deede he was buried in deede he rose and ascended in deede and yet you will not confesse that he personalye descended How can al these articles going before and comming after be vnderstode of the person of Christ and of his humanity not this Therefore you denying this personall descending of Christ into hell take away the greate comfort of our deliuerance from hell You say we are deliuered from hell by Christs death so are we too by his birth For if Christ had not bene borne he had not dyed so if there had not beene a seperation of the body and soule of Christ he could neuer haue conquered death or hell for by descending into the graue and that personally he conquered death hath deliuered vs from death by going downe into hell personallye he hath conquered hel And for this cause the scripture applieth it to the death of Christ because death was as Paul saith Phil. 3. A dissoluiton of body and soule And these 2. parts being dissolued Christ came from the graue and from hel and Christ did conquer both and triumph ouer them in him self as it is Col. 2. 15. These Jewes do aske asigne from heauen Math. 22 38. Luk. 11. 29. to whom Christ said A wicked and addulterous Generation doeth aske a signe but no signe shal be giuen them but the signe of Ionas the prophet for as Ionas was in the whales belly three dayes and three nights so shall the sonne of man bee in the hart of the earth three daies and three nights Which words Basilius Magnus interpreteth very wel These words a signe is a matter made manifest coÌ„teyning y â— declaration of some thing that was hidden as y â— signe of Ionas representeth y â— descending of Christ into hell and the resurrection of Christ and as Bede saith Rhab. also he gaue theÌ„ a sign but not from heauen because they were vnworthy to see it but from the depth of hel Therefore M. Hume this is a most comfortable doctrine that Christ doth deliuer vs from hell which albeit you agnise as well as wee yet because you deny the meanes where by it was purchased you deny a most comfortable doctrine for not only the body of Christ was in the heart of the earth but the son of man which signifieth the whole humanitye that is the soule and the body Ionas was in the whales belly aliue and yet came forth Christ was in the graue dead in flesh and aliue in hel and yet came forth Therefore to take away this maner of descending taketh away from the Church a singular comfort and openeth a gap to many errors confuted already by the Fathers For if Christ did conquer hel by the power of the Godhead only and not as he is a man what neede had he to take vpon him our nature but because as man he might be Lord not a heauen and the Angels but of the earth and of the inhabitants therof and of hell and the diuels You say the world is sory for me In the world saith Christ you shal haue affliction And he telleth me the world wil hate me I way not these things for I am noe man-pleaser nor lover of the world But if in my Sermon I had disagreed with Dauid Ezechiel Esay Peter Paule Christ himselfe 923 as you haue done in your an were I hope I should be both sory and ashamed Touching M. Chalfont whome you terme a man without iudgement and that he spake impudently and enuiously I neuer sawe him before that time and but once sence but by that speech and conference which I had with him I ford him to be learned and vâ—id of gail Such of his neighbours as I haue talked with did giue him y â— deserued praise of a learned and honest man And for asmuch as hee hath preached 926 sound doctrine in preaching the affirmatiue and that doctâ—in which is allowed by the learned conuocation of
heer your malice driving you to imagine much absurditie in our opinion doeth deceaue you For wee holde and will die for it that Christ in his owne person bodie and soule did descend into all the torments that hel could yeelde And this indeede is a true descending into Hell For the nature and name of Hell doth yeeld nothing but horrour terror treÌ„bling and torments But in your opinion we must imagine all things contrarie Not torments but triumph nor sorrowes but solace not shame and ignominie but honour and glory Hell doeth yeelde no such frutes nor the descending into hell can bee to no such ende Take therefore your potentiall decending into Hell and the conquest thereof by the onlie power of the Deitie and buy a benefice with it Whereas you say that our opinion doeth open a gap to manie errors you pretend a feare without grouÌ„d to make the Reader affraied of the moone-shade It is the manner of politick men that would faine hinder a thing that reason doeth further to set feare of sequels against the force of known reason Heer you flee to that shift though you know that amongest al the writers that haue embraced this opinion which be manie of great name not one yet can be tainted with one error growing in this fountaine In this section you hamper about another argument but cannot hit the marke Wherefore to saue your labour I will heere make it vp and breake the point of it when I haue done that you may see it cannot â—urt vs. It is this There is greater reason that Christ should haue beene held three daies of Hell without paine then three daies of the graue without corruption But hee was three dayes in the graue without corruption Ergo he was farre rather thre daies in Hell without paine Because it is not likelie that the weaker did fasten faster on him then the stronger beeing as far inferiour in malice as it is lesse in power To this I answere that there is not the like reason much lesse greater reason For hee lay three dayes in the graue to confirme our knowledge and to extinguishe all doubt of his death Secondlie to lay a grounded beleef in our hearts of the resurrection For he was the first frutes of the dead Thirdlie to make his resurrection more glorious For the loÌ„ger he was held in the bandes of death the greater glorie it was to breake them gathering strength by continuance Lastlie to take all blockes out of the path of faith that wee might walke in it more surelie without stumbling I knowe no such reasons why he should haue descended into the very place of hell being so farre remooued from our senses as we could receiue neither knowledge nor comfort therby Now whereas you take mee vp for saying that the world is sorrie for you my wordes might haue had a tollerable construction if you had cast an eie to Christs words in Iohn God so loued the worlde that hee gaue his onelie begotten Sonne for it or if you had lookt in my latine you should haue found my wordes lesse subject to violence Pij omnes dolent that is al the godlie are sorie sounding much to the same sense But you loue not the world you say nor the world loues not you I think you speake truelie iiij or v. benefices to them that you haue wold serue the turne to maintaine your skarlet hood and half a dosen of tall fellowes in tawnie coates to defend that with the sword which you cannot with the pen that is but a peece of the world But you loue not the world because it is not so liberall nor the world loues not you so becaus you haue more charges already theÌ„ you haue tongues to teach You coÌ„clude that I beeing a stranger muste not bee periergos and that Si pergam dicere quae volo audiam quae nolo These arguments were better in Queen Maries fierie daies for D. Storie then they are now in the calmes of Elizabeth for D. Hill You slander the learned convocation of the land and wrong good M. Nowell who as I heare disclaimeth your opinion As for mee I am a Christian and therefore no stranger in the Church of Christ I will not speake against my conscience for all the counsels and convocations in the world and all the Doctors in both the Vniuersisities if they were my aduersaries But God bee thanked it is not so I began with you in secrete you haue made it common Wherefore you are periergâ—s and not I. HIL his conclusion to M. Hume MAister Hume in the latter end of your answere you request mee to recant if your answere did please mee as it doth you I would be as willing to recant as you and your freends would be glade to heare it But I will plainelie set downe my reasons why I doe not recant The first is I alledged Act. 2 and proued out of Peters sermon my assertion and to the reasons I drew out of that place you haue answered nothing Secondlie I alledged Syra 17. 21. To proue that this phrase the nethermost parts of the earth doth signifie hell to this you haue in like manner saide nothing Thirdlie in all your answeres to my allegations you haue disagreed with the word of God In answering of the 16. Psal you say my allegation is to be vnderstood of the passion of Christ And Peter Act. 2. saith it is spoken of the resurrection whether is to bee beleeued of Peter or you I referre it to the indifferent Reader Then I proued that ERETS TACHTITH that is the nethermost partes of the earth did signifie hell out of the 63. Psalm and 9. verse In answering of this you dissent from David and M. Calvine Now whether it be more safe to sollowe Dauid or you let mine enemies iudge I alleadged Ezechiel to proue that point also 31. chapter 5. 16. 17. 18. 19. In answering to that place you haue gain-saide â—zechiel Esay in his 14. chapter Lavaterus Munster and Pellicane Now whether it be more fit for mee to beleeue you or Esay or Ezechiel let your owne favorites iudge Then I alleadged the known place of Peter you travailed much about this place yet in your interpretation of this word pneumasi that is spirits which you interprete the soules of the men that liued in Noahs time you contradict the words of our Saviour Luk 24 39. For Christ saieth a Spirit hath not fleshe and bones as you see me haue And yet you and your Maisters â—ay that this word spirit may signifie a maÌ„ living Now whether it bee more expedient for mee to beleeue you or Christ I referre it to your owne iudgement You â—aid my Sermon at Chippenhame did confirme you and your frends but I hope your owne answeres will not confute mee but your selfe and cause your self and them both to recanâ— you say you seeke to know he truth so do I as knoweth the knower of all hearts wherefore whether you or I