Christ this agonie and from his feare he was deliuered To say as you do that it was eternall death and euâ—…rlasting malediction which Christ here thus wofully and distressefully feared is the strangest speech in Diutnity that euer I heard You cunningly dissemble as your maner is that Pag. 22. which you quote I professed to refuse no mans opinion that s Seâ—…m pag. 22. li. 2. agreed any way with the rules of trueth and thereupon layed downe three things which Christ might 〈◊〉 in the Cup of Gods wrath and by his prayer accordingly decline them to wit 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 corporall 〈◊〉 aboue his strength and the separation of his soule from hiâ—… bodâ—…e by deâ—…th The feare of eternall death which is vrged by some of good learning and euen by the Catechisme on which you would seeme to stand so much if we admiâ—…ted in Christ himselfe I sayd must be taken for a Religious dislike and shunning of hell t Sermo pag. 23. li. 4. not for any distrust of his owne saluation or doubt of Gods displeasure against himselfe which we could not imagine in Christ without euident want of grace and losse of faith and these we might not attribute to Christs person no not for an instant Where then I alleage so many reasons Pa. 23. u li. 32. guarding Christs person most sufficiently froâ—… all danger and doâ—…bt of eternall death thence you collect that I auouch Christ thus â—…ofully and distressefully feared euerlasting damnation which is a strange and 〈◊〉 falsehood though familiar with you as if without such grosse stuffe you could not 〈◊〉 out your pamphlet The Catechisme we heard before saying that Christ was Aeternae mortis horrore persusus wholly touched with the horror of 〈◊〉 death M. Caluin sayth as much x Caluin in li. 2. ca. 16. sect 10. Vnde eum oportuit cum Infâ—…rorum copiâ—…s 〈◊〉 mortis horrore quâ—…si consertis manibus luctari Wherefore Christ was to wrestle hâ—…nd in 〈◊〉 with all the power of hâ—…ll and with the horrour of ETERNALL death Others might be brought in like sort but these suffice to discharge me that I did not imagine these things of mine owne head but found them in men of good learning and iudgement which yet I did not receiue except we did expound their words to import in Christ a religious feare declining euerlasting death in himâ—…elfe or affectionately sorowing when he consideâ—…ed what was due to vs for ouâ—… sinnes Wherefore if you make so strangâ—… of these words stirre against your authorized Catechisme and Master Caluin who first vsed them y Defenc. pâ—…g 130. li. 20. You cannot helpe your selfe in making Christes â—…eare of this death to be onely a religious feare and a feare for others these imaginations I haue remoued before Then you perceiue well enough in what sense I admit their words but to aduantage your selfe you dispence with a slaunderous lie Your remoouing is like the roling of paper to make pipes withall you play still on one string and that so much out of tune that euery man is wearie with hearing it besides your selfe z li. 29. These affections you say were not likelie in him at all much lesse to be the causes of such effects As though Christ had none other causes of sorow but onely this And what vnlikelihood that these should be in Christ at this season sauing that your fansie leadeth you to what you list These are not feare properly they ought rather to be called a religious care and pittâ—…e which differ greatly from the nature of feare properly taken Did I professe that Christ feared euerlasting death properly did I not rather excuse or qualifie the vehemencie of their wordes who put in Christ an horror of eternall death you reason now against the Catechisme which you make shew to maintaine and not against me For other feare of euerlasting death in Christ then improper I acknowledge none You thinke the nature of enlabeia will not admit any proper feare Then doe you conuince your selfe to be a notable deluder and abuser of the trueth For you are not ignorant what I say but you peruert it of purpose to miscarie your Reader and countenance your cause a li. 38. What say you did Christ doubt eternall damnation and therefore feared it you lacke a woodden dagger to become your part better haue I any such wordes or sense I shew the generall signification of â—…labeia to be b Conclus pa. 305. li. 25. a carefull and diligent regard to beware or decline that which we mislike or doubt and that as well in priuate and publike affaires as in Religion and you applie this as if I had sayd Christ feared and doubted eternall damnation Whereas I neither mention eternall damnation in all that section nor so much as name Christ within fourtie lines of those wordes which shew how largely enlabeia is taken You speake so darkly that I know not how to take you You double so continually that I cannot tell what to make of you I haue in the same page 305. whence you tooke these wordes distinctly shewed what parts of Gods wrath Christ might be said to feare or suffer and in what sense and yet you complaine of darknesse when you shun the light and watch for a word applied to another purpose pretending you must needes stumble at that straw And therefore neuer come in with any after close what my meaning may be if my wordes be not plaine reprooue them if they be refute them except you receiue them This you say commeth neerest to the signification of the Greeke word I graunt it doth touching eulabeia but in Maâ—…ke the word doth import properly feare and that in extremitie It is happie yet that when you cannot chuse you will graunt that which is fully prooued to your face In your vnlearned Treatise you would needs make as vnlearned an obseruation that c Treatis pag. 74. li. 22. this very word not onely in other Authors but in the Scripture is vsed for a perplexed feare And when your ignorance is conuinced for enlabâ—…ia is not onely lesse then 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is feare in the Greeke tongue but contrarie to it because it is the d De placitis Philoso li. 7. in zenone declining of euill with reason and circumspection as Diogenes Laertius writeth you graunt that which you cannot gainesay With as much skill you auouch that ekthambeiâ—…thai doth import properly feare and that in extremitie whereas properly it noteth admiration at any strange or suddaine sight Whether feare be ioyned with it or no which sometime is according to the cause and circumstance of the place e Defenc. pag. 131. li. 8. My reason that Eulabeia heere signifieth feare properly yea a perplexed feare and not onely a religious deuotion as you say is grounded not so much on the nature of the word as on the circumstances of the place and the other wordes of the text Christ did as
So that all your platforme is quite ouerthrowen by the direct words of the Apostle freeing Christ and all his elect euen in this life from all power of the second death And therefore you set your selfe in this section euidently to confront the holy Ghost when you seeke to proue that Christ suffered the second death of the soule as the Scripture speaketh And besides the Scriptures if you talke of second deaths you may as well tell vs tales of a new world as of an other word without the witnesse of Gods spirit But you haue found out many places of Scripture where this last kinde of death is so called and named Eight you quote by the side in your margine but take not the paines to discusse one of them onely you pronounce after your stately manner that those places of Scripture prooue that which you meane to bee the death of the soule Now what if not one of them speake any such thing is not your Reader sure to find you a true man of your word when you quote eight places and not one of them to your purpose but this is your perpetuall course to mistake and misuse Scriptures at your pleasure and then to say you haue soundly prooued it On the contrary I affirme that none of these places intend any such thing as you imagine of your terrestiall and temporall hell but they exactly conclude against you that damnation is eternall and no death of the soule which is not euerlasting is expressed or intended in any of those Scriptures or in any other that you or your friends are able to picke out And though it may suffice me as well to say nay as you to say yea yet for the Readers better resolution I will not bee grieued to run through all these places as much as shal be needfull The first is l Ezech. 18. ver 4. the soule that â—…inneth it shall die These words may signifie either subtraction of grace in this life which is consequent to sinne in the wicked or exclusion Eight places of Scripture abused for the temporall death of Christs soulâ—… from glory in the next world which is the iust and full wages of sinne But that euery soule which sinneth hath felt or shall feele in this life your temporall hell or the pains of the damned this is a grosse error to be fathered on those words and repugnant not onely to the trueth of this text but euen to the sense and experience of all the Godly and such as your selfe dare not auouch since you qualifie your conceit in that behalfe with these words that m Defenc. pag. 134. li. 15. some in some measure are conformed with Christ in these his sufferings But if God by Ezechiel ment your earthly hell then absolutely all men children not excepted must feele in this life paines equall with the damned for so much as they haue sinned and deserued euerlasting damnation The second is the commination that God made to Adam n Genes 2. ver 17. Whensoeuer thou â—…atest thereof thou shalt die the death or surely thou shalt die Here are all sorts of deaths threatned but not to be executed either on all men nor in this present life God reseruing to himselfe power and libertie to dispose of all mens soules according to his determinate counsell though they should all be guiltie and liable to all kinds of death by vertue of those words vpon the transgression of the first man This exposition the Apostle giueth when he saith o Rom. 5. The offence of one came on all men to condemnation which is the verifying of these words that all men died in Adam to wit were subiect to death not onely by dying the death of the bodie which is appointed for all men but to the guiltinesse of euerlasting death not executed on all though deserued by all The third which is the p Rom. 6. Apostles conclusion is either generally ment of all kinds of death which came in by sinne as the rewards and punishments thereof and then it is nothing to your intention or else it expresseth the full wages of sinne to be euerlasting death by opposition to eternall life mentioned in the next wordes following For eternall life is the gift of God as eternall death is the wages that is bothe the desert and repayment of sinne Take which you will either the generall or speciall construction of death it is no way pertinent to your purpose Lesse is the fourth that the Apostles were the q 2. Cor. 2. vers 16. sauour of death vnto death in them that perished as they were the sauour of life vnto life in them that were saued For the preaching of the Gospell which the Apostle meaneth in that place doeth not proclaime a terrestiall or temporall heauen to them that beleeue in Christ but life eternall and consequently neither doth it denounce a temporall death to them which refuse Christ but euerlasting death And therefore there can be nothing more absurd then to conuert these places to the proofe of your temporall hell for so you should doe the reprobate a very good turne if you could shew that the death threatned them for not beleeuing in Christ were to dure but for a time or in this life only where your new found hell hath power and place and no where else With like successe you note for your fifth that the r 2 Cor. 3. vers 7. ministration of death was glorious the Apostle so calling the law because it denounced death not temporall but eternall to all transgessours So that if the full wages of sinne be eternall death by the word of God then did the law not denounce a temporall death due to all men by course of nature be they good or bad though euen that at first entered as a part of the punishment of sinne but euerlasting death which is the second death is reserued as S. Iohn writeth for all sorts of sinners and liers Saint Iames is the sixth who sayth s Iames 5. He that conuerteth a sinner erring from the trueth shall saue a soule from death If a man conuerted shall be saued from your temporall hell which you here would intend by the death of the soule then much more the Conuerter and he that neuer erred from the trueth shall be free from your hell and consequently Christ was most free who was trueth it selfe and neuer erred But as trueth is the way to euerlasting life and freeth men from all bondage of sinne and Satan so errour and infidelitie haue another maner of death than your terrestiall hell which you make common to Christ and some of his members and he that is conuerted from errour or sinne shall be saued from euerlasting perdition which indeed is the death of the soule depriuing it of all blisse and ioy for euer The seuenth and eigth you take out of Saint Iohn who sayth t 1. Ioh. 5. vers 16 17. There is sinne vnto
bodie which is not performed before the bodie rise to glorie you turne it as if I professed our redemption from hell to be imperfect till the last day And when I mention with Saint Paul the redemption of our bodies from corruption which shall not be before the resurrection you would inferre thereupon if you could tell how that the bodies of the Saints remaine subiect to the power of hell to the curse of the law and to the claime of Satan Thus you runne on like a riotous spaniel chalenging vpon euery foote but finding nothing With like wit and trueth you inferre vpon my wordes where I say the death of the body was inflicted on mankind as part of the wages of sinne that therefore the godly must pay a part of their owne redemption and satisfaction for sinne and then Christ was not our onely and absolute redeemer But which way doth this follow can you tell punishment for sinne is in our persons neither redemption nor satisfaction for sinne in Christs person it was both Know you not the difference betwixt Christs person and ours But I say pa. 216. that the bodies of the dead Saints are in the possession of hell and in the handfact of hell In wresting and wrangling is all your grace Where some auncient writers seeme to say that Christ deliuered some of the Saints out of the present possession of hell all the defence I said that could any way be made out of the Scriptures to excuse this was to take hell improperly for the sting and wound of bodily death which Satan the ruler of hell procured to man by sinne For sinne death and corruption are the workes of the Diuell which Christ came to dissolue God made not death as the wiseman obserueth but created man without corruption and through the enuie of the Diuell came death into the world This then being one of the wounds which Satan through sinne gaue vnto our first father and all his ofspring this is not perfectly cured but with the resurrection of our bodies to eternall life though the poyson of this wound bee in the meane time allayed and the danger secured And thus whiles I seeke to mitigate other mens wordes and to extenuate the name and power of hell vnderstanding thereby nothing but the dissolution of mans life and corruption of mans bodie which Satan occasioned by sinne you make the Reader beleeue I take the name of hell properly for the power and right that hell hath ouer the bodies of the wicked and teach that the Saints are not deliuered from hell till their bodies rise from death which when you list you can find to bee refuted elswhere by me and therefore to be no part of my meaning heere How death is an enemie which must be destroyed aswell as sinne and hell we neede not your commentarie except it were stoared with better Diuinitie It hindreth the Saints you graunt from enioying their appointed felicitie yet as a peaceable and quiet stop Ascribe you this peace and quietnesse to their bodies voide of life and sense or to their soules staied from the full fruition of eternall glorie by that meanes And troe you the soules of the Saints be well and quietly content to lacke their appointed felicitie not at all to desire it or not earnestly to pray for it were plainly to loath it and not obediently to expect it Wherefore they exceedingly affect and instantly pray for the destruction of this enemie that keepeth their bodies in dishonour and corruption and hindereth their spirits from enioying that glorie which shal be reucaled in the last time which appeareth by their vehement prayer in the Reuelation how long O Lord holy and true doest thou not iudge and auenge our bloud on them that dwell on the earth Where they in heauen seeke not reuenge on them for whom they prayed in earth but they expresse their continuall and ardent desire for that day when they shall be wholy conformed to Christ their head And when they are willed to rest for a season they gladly submit themselues to the will and wisedome of God but meane while they hate death as an hinderer of that blisse and ioy which they so much loue and long for and shall no doubt reioyce exceedingly when this last enemie is swallowed vp in victorie as the rest were before But let death be an enemie which way you will how doth this conclude that Hades here 1. Corinth 15. in no sort signifieth hell The very text seemeth thus to expound it selfe saying where is thy sting O Hades the sting of death is sinne Where the later seemeth a direct exposition of the former noting these two wordes Hades and death as Synonymas for one thing being applied to men When you talke of the text of holy Scripture you should not leaue the wordes that are extant in all our printed copies retained and alleaged by the best and most of the Greeke Fathers as likewise of our new writers and cleane to the single conceite of some one man taking vpon him to correct all the printed copies that euer he saw and of his owne authoritie to alter the Originall I doe not therefore by your and his leaue admit this for Saint Pauls text since it is his priuate change of the wordes in the Greeke against all the copies that are either manu-scripts or printed at this day His owne confession is this Contrario ordine legunt hunc locum non modo Graeci omnes codices quos inspeximus sed etiam Syrus Arabs interpretes Not onely all the Greeke copies that we haue seene but the Syriack Arabick Interpreters read this place in a contrarie order that is they put these words ô Hades where is thy victorie in the last place which you set in the first and the other words ô death where is thy sting they set first which you will haue to be last Thus then stand the Apostles wordes cleane contrarie to that which you bring 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 O death where is thy sting O Hades wher is thy victorie And in this order doe Luther Erasmus Zuinglius Peter Martyr Caluine Bullingere Gualtere Aretius Hemmingius Hyperius Osiander Marlorate and I know not how many more both keepe and cite that text in Latin vbi tuus mors aculeus vbi tua Inferne victoria Where is thy sting O death where is thy victorie O hell And touching the Greeke copies and Fathers that are auncient and obserue the same order of the wordes for the Apostles text we haue Origen Athanasius Nazianzene Nyssene Epiphanius x Chrysostome x Oecumenius and though the translatours of x Theodoret and x Theophylact retaine the wordes of the old Latin Bible in this place for the text yet there is no likelihood that these two in their own tongue varied from the rest specially Theophylact who in his commenting
priuatiâ—…e condition of death they wâ—…l â—…ile at your presumptuous folly If it be a matter of faith it â—… no phrase if we must beleeue as they teach that Christ after his death and buâ—…all deâ—…cended to hell you must shew vs some other hell to which Christ descended after death or els I conclude that the Lawes of this Land bind all men to beleeue and professe that Christ descended to that hell which the Scriptures acknowledge and not â—…hich your roling concâ—…its and totterâ—…ng tonguâ—… would establish against the warrant and word of God whose only will should be the line whose only trueth should be the guide whose only praise should be the end of all our professions and actions THE TABLE SERVING for their vse that are desirous with more ease to finde out the speciall contents of this booke as they are handled in their seuerall places A A Brahams bosom pag. 552 the place therof vnknowen 656 Aâ—…yssus in the Newe Testamenâ—… is hell 6â—…9 Aâ—…sed iâ—…nocents and penitâ—…nts â—…re not though hanged on a tree 238 Châ—…t was noâ—… Aâ—…sed how great soeuer his paines weâ—… 164. 165 S. Auâ—…s iâ—…dgement how Châ—…ist was accursed 241 Men câ—…n not be truly blâ—…ssed and accursâ—…d 253 Thâ—…t is â—…ccâ—…ed whâ—…ch God hateth 257 A sacâ—…ifice for sinne is not acâ—…ursed but accepted of God 258 Adam sinned aswell by bodie as by soule 183. 184 Was punished for his sinne after Christ was promised 147 What God threatened to Adam if he sinned 177. 178 Aeternall death fâ—…r whom Christ might feare 484 Against aeâ—…rnall death as due to him Christ could not pâ—…ay 378. 379 Aeternally God doth not punish one for anothers â—…ault 336 Affections are pâ—…infull to the soule 4â—…9 make sensible alterations in the heart 193. 194 Good affections of loue and zeale are not painfull 26 Euill affections are punishments of sinne 31 Inward affections make outward impressions in the heart 193 The heart is the seat of mans affections and actions  Christ couâ—…d represse and encrease his affections as he saw cause 400 The Aâ—…xe cleaueth to the Verbe and not to the Noune 216 Afflâ—…ctions of the godly are moderated punishmeÌ„ts 9. 10. 11. 17. manifest Gods displeasure against sinne 14â—… Agony what it is 339 Tâ—…e paines of hell were not the cause of Christs agony 58. 59 The causes that might be of Christs agony in the â—…ardeÌ„ 9â—… they crossâ—… not one another 97 I diâ—… not resolue what was the cause of Christs agony  The precise cause of Christs agony is not reuealed in the Scriptures 338. 346. though the general occasions may be coniectured 346 The parts of Christs agony 339 An agony proueth rather zeale then feare 339 Feare and sorrow the Scriptures witnesse in Christs agony 342 Submission to God and compassion on men the generall causes of Christs agony 347 The first cause coÌ„curring to Christs agony 347 The second 354 The third 370 The fourth 371 The fiâ—…th 375 The sixt 399 The Fathers determâ—…ne not the exact cause of Chrâ—…sts agony 371 How some vse the word agony 403 The different affâ—…ctions in Christs agony had different causes 558 Amazâ—…d neither Moses nor Paul were in their praâ—…ers 368 Christ was not amazed in his praier 369. 479 Christs praier prooueth hee was not then amazed 469 Christs â—…raier was no amaze 467 The Defender yeeldâ—…th perfect knowledge to Christ in his amazednes 481 Angry God was with our sinnes but not with Christs person 463 God is truely angry with his childrens sinnes 14 Angels sinned in their whole nature as men doe 197 Angels and good men receaued the bowing of the body 662 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifieth For as well as From. 501 The Apostle 1. Cor. 15. speaketh onely of the resurrection to glory 640. What his wordes Hâ—…b 5. inferre 498. 499. 500 Beleeuers may not iudge of the apostles words 89 More Apostles then twelue 651 The diuers reading and translating of the apostles words 1. Cor. 15. 55. 639 Astonishment what it is 441 What astonishment with feare is 468 Christ did not pray in astonishment 441 Why Christ might be somewhat astonished 468 Athanasius lewdly falsified by the Defender 275 taketh Hades for hell 569. 600. 601 What Athanasius speaketh of Adam the Defender referreth to Christ. 275 Augustine not ignorant of the Greeke tongue 608 his iudgement how Christ was accursed 241 keepeth the sense of Peters word Act. 2. 626 is grossely mistaken by the Defender 627  Christ tooke our naturall but not sinfull affections 330 Christ might beholde the power of Gods wrath and yet not feare the vengeance due to the wicked 348 Christ prayed for vs and against Satan 352 Christ knew the burden of our sinnes must lie on his shoulders 353 Christ and his members must drinke of one and the same cup. 353 Christ wept for the desolation of Ierusalem and sorowed for the reiection of the Iewes 354 Christ wept and sorrowed when he would 355 Christ grieued at the wilfulnesse of the Iewes 357 Christ sorowed that his death should be the ruine of the Iewes ibid. Christ chose the time and place to shew his vehement affections 358 Christ could not be content to be separated from God for vs. 367 Christ suffered the likenesse of our punishment not of our sinne 273 Christ was not ordained to be damned for vs. 364 Christ feared not death but his Fathers power 370 Christ might pray to haue the deepnes of his sorrowes comforted paines asswaged 374. 375 Christ might pray against the sting of death which he was to feele before he died 381 Christ could not pray against eternall death as due to him but vnto vs. 378. 379 Christ was most earnestly to aske what God had faithfully promised to graunt 384 Christ felt all our affections not of necessitie but according to his owne power and will 386 Christ shewed in the garden how mans soule strugleth with the panges of death 388 Christ was weake to comfort the weak but stronger then the strongest on the crosse 388. 390 Christ saw the whole danger from which hee should redeeme vs. 392. 393 Christ teacheth all his to feare Gods power as himselfe did in the garden 393. 394 Christ presented and dedicated his body in the garden which he sufâ—…ered on the crosse to be done to death 399 Christ died not in the garden 400 Christ could represse and increase his affections as he saw cause 400 Christ found no ioy in his paines but comfort in his hope 411 Christ emptied himselfe of glory not of grace 412 Christ citing the 1. vers of the 21. Psalme noteth the whole to appertaine to his passion 434 Christ was mortified in flesh but not in soule 507 Christ might passe from hell to heauen 550 Christ needed no long time to deâ—…cend to hel 551 Christ presented himselfe in euery place 564 Christ was to rise full conquerer of hell and death 668 How Christs death was like the godlies 7 How Christ laid downe his soule for
was neglected and loathed And vpon conference with the most reuerend Father the late Archbishop now with God was aduised in open audience to deliuer what the Scriptures teach touching our redemption by the death and bloudshedding of Iesus Christ the Sonne of God Which accordingly I did declaring by occasion of the Apostles words Be it far from me to reioyce but in the Crosse of Christ first the Contents and then the Effects of Christes crosse In the Contents of Christes crosse I shewed what Christ suffered by the witnes of holy Scripture and what he suffered not and there ioyned this issue That no Scripture doth teach the death of Christs soule or the paines of the damned to be requisite in the person of Christ before he could be the Ransomer of our sinnes and Sauiour of the world And because the proofs pretended for this point might be three Praedictions that Christ should suffer those paines Causes why he must suffer them and Signes that he did suffer them I likewise insisted on all three and shewed there were no such Praedictions Causes nor Signes of the true paines of hell to be suffered in the soule of Christ before he could saue vs. Wherein his Agonie in the Garden and Complaint on the Crosse were examined as well by the rules of holy Scripture as by the maine consent of all the Fathers And lest the death of Christ suffered in the bodie of his flesh on the altar of the Crosse as it is described in the Scriptures and the shedding of his precious bloud should be disabled or distrusted of any as no sufficient meanes or price of our redemption in the Effects of Christs crosse I prooued the merits of Christes suffering to be infinite in respect of his person who was God and of the perfection of his obedience vnto the death of the Crosse the maner of his offering to be bloudie foreshewed by the Sacrifices of the Law and sealed by the Sacraments of the Gospell the power of his death to be mightie as able to conquer Sinne Hell and Satan the comfort of his Crosse to be necessarie to which we must all be conformed to suffer with him before we can raigne with him the victorie thereof to be heauenly in that he rose the third day into a celestiall and eternall life hauing all his enemies vnder his feet Yet for peace sake I yeelded the name of hell-paines might in some sort be tolerated in the sufferings of Christ if we meant thereby great and intolerable paines as the word is sometimes metaphorically taken in the Scriptures at the least by our vulgar translation for the word indeed was Sheôl which is vsed aswell for the graue as for hell and so those speeches of Dauid That the paines of Sheol found him out or compassed him might import the paines of death which brought men to their graues And concerning that Article of our Faith Christ descended to Hell I taught it might not by the course of the Creed be referred to Christ liuing but to Christ dead and safely note the conquest which Christs manhood after death had ouer all the powers of darkenesse declared by his resurrection when he rose Lord ouer all his enemies in his owne person Death Hell and Satan not excepted and had the Keyes that is all power of death and hell deliuered him by God that those in heauen earth and hell should stoope vnto him and be subiect to the strength and glorie of his Kingdome These things were first vttered by speech and after committed to writing that aswell the parts as proofes of euery point might more plainly appeare to all that would examine them My care was in either of these to ioyne with the doctrine prescribed by the booke of Homilies to be taught in the Church of God to the people That there is none other thing that can be named vnder heauen to saue our soules but this only worke of Christes precious offering his bodie vpon the Altar of the Crosse. For so great was Gods wrath and displeasure towards sinne that he could be pacified by no other meanes but only by the sweet and precious bloud of his deere Sonne And so pleasant was this sacrifice and oblation of his Sonnes death which he so obediently and innocently suffered that God would take it for the onely and full amends for all the sinnes of the world As for Christs descent to hell I deliuered the same ends and intents which the booke of Homilies doth where it saith Christes death destroyed death and ouercame the Diuell His death destroyed hell with all the damnation thereof Christ passed thorow death and hell to the intent to put vs in good hope that by his strength we shall do the same He destroyed the Diuell and all his tyrannie and openly triumphed ouer him and tooke away from him all his Captiues meaning all the Elect and hath raised and set them with himselfe amongst the heauenly Citizens aboue These things thus preached and printed by me it may please your excellent Maiestie to vnderstand were first impugned by an hastie and humorous Treatise whiles my Sermons were yet vnder the Presse and after by a larger and warier Defence which is this that I now refute The Treatiser sliding from the things proposed by me wherein he could not open his mouth but with as many vntrueths as words did beare men in hand the question was Whether Christ suffered for vs the wrath of God or no whereas I mooued no such doubt but rather acknowledged That all which Christ suffered in soule or in bodie was the wrath of God against our sinnes if we speake as the Scriptures doe of punishments prouided â—…or this life where Christ did suffer and not of the wrath to come which is the vengeance prepared for the Diuell and the damned in another world And because in this Treatise I found moe distempered pangs of erroneous follie than aduised steppes of learning or religion I refelled the chiefe reasons thereof in a Conclusion added to my Sermons as they were in printing not thinking it worth my time or paines to make any longer resutation of him that remembred so little of that I had vttered and reasoned so loosely for that which he would establish No sooner were those Sermons and that Conclusion published but the curious Brethren seeing their kingdome of conceits impugned made their obseruations on both and sent their collections and reasons to the Treatiser that he might make a fresh Defence correcting in many things his former rashnesse and now leading him rather cunningly to cauill with the Fathers speeches than so proudly to disdaine their testimonies which maketh him not only to change his minde in many matters from that he sayd before but often to crosse himselâ—…e in the selfe same leafe whiles he doth not marke what he sayth out of his owne heart and what he bringeth out of other mens supplies and papers In this Defence for so they
religious Prince aswell to examine the Scriptures with all diligence as to shew the confession and resolution of Christs Church long before our times that all the world may see I maintaine none other grounds of Faith nor sense of Scripture than haue beene anciently constantly and continually professed and beleeued in the Church of Christ for these fifteene hundred yeeres till this our present Age and the same allowed and ratified by the publike lawes of this Realme which your Maiestie in your most Princely wisdome and courage professe to vpholde and continue God for his holy Names sake blesse your most sacred Maiestie and prosper all your vertuous and Christian cares that as in learning and wisdome in clemencie and pietie he hath made you the Mirrour of this Age so in peace and prosperitie in concord and vnitie in all happinesse and felicitie he may exalt you aboue all your neighbour Princes and hauing vnited the two Realmes of England and Scotland in one subiection vnder your Princely right and regiment he will knit the hearts and hands of both to honour and serue you loue and obey you and your royall issue after you to the worlds end Your Maiesties most humble subiect and seruant THO. WINTON THE CHIEFE RESOLVTIONS OF THIS Suruey THe cleerenes and fulnes of the Scriptures in the worke of our Redemption is exactly to be reuerenced so as no man ought to teach or beleeue any thing touching our redemption by Christ which is not expresly witnessed in the sacred Scriptures much lesse may we distrust the manifest words of the holy Ghost to be impertinent or vnsufficient in declaring the true price and meane of our redemption The maine ground of the Gospell which the Apostles preached the faithfull receiued wherein they continued and whereby they were saued was this That Christ died for our sinnes according to the Scriptures and was buried and rose the third day according to the Scriptures Since then we are reconciled to God by the death of his Sonne we must acknowledge none other death of Christ then that which he suffered in the bodie of his flesh after which he was buried and from which he rose the third day which death the Scriptures most apparently describe to be the death of Christs bodie If we were redeemed by the bloud of Christ and God proposed him to be a Reconciliation through faith in his bloud which was shed for the remission of sinnes we may not presume to appoint a new price of our redemption or new meane of our reconciliation since by the bloud of his crosse Christ hath pacified both the things in earth and things in heauen and the bloud of Iesus Christ cleanseth vs from all sinne The Scriptures doe no where teach nor mention the death of Christs Joule or the death of the damned which is the second death to be needfull for our redemption We must not therefore intrude our selues into Gods seat to ordâ—…ne a new course for mans redemption If the Spirit doe quicken and the iust liue by faith and he that abideth in loue abideth in God who is life it was vtterlie impossible but the soule of Christ in that abundance of Spirit euidence of Faith assurance of Hope and perfection of Loue which he alwayes retained should alwayes liue to God Life and death being opposed as priuatiues and so not to be found in one and the same subiect at one and the same time the soule of Christ alwayes liuing could neuer be dead Neither could a dead soule be pleasing to God who is whole life and therefore hateth death as contrarie to his nature when yet he was alwayes well pleased with Christ. Where some imagine extreame paine in Christs soule may be called the death of his soule that position is repugnant to the Scriptures for the greater the paine which the soule feeleth and endureth with innocencie confidence obedience and patience such as were all Christes sufferings the more the soule liueth and cleaueth to God for whose glorie it suffereth so much smart as appeareth in Martyrs whose soules do most liue in their greatest torments The late deuice of hell-paines in Christes passion is not only false but also superfluous for the true paines of hell neither are nor can be suffered in this life where by Gods ordinance extreame paine driueth the soule from the bodie much lesse can man or Angell endure them with obedience and patience as Christ did all his paines And what need was there of hell-paines in the crosse of Christ since God can by euery meanes or without meanes raise more paines in bodie or soule than any creature can endure Christs soule could not be strooken with any horrour of Gods displeasure against him since in his greatest anguish he professed God to be his God and his Father and by prayer preuailed for his persecutors as appeared after by their conuersion and gaue eternall life to the soule of the Thiefe hanging by him and beleeuing on him Now to giue life is more than to haue life and restore others to fauour he can not that himselfe is in displeasure Hell-fire which the damned and diuels do and shall suffer is a true and eternall fire prepared by the mightie hand of God to punish aswell spirits as bodies and this errour That the fire of hell was only an internall or spirituall fire in the soules and consciences of men was long since condemned in Origen by the Church of Christ. Reiection therefore desperation confusion horrour of damnation externall and eternall fire which are the torments of the damned and true paines of hell can not without blasphemie be ascribed to Christ. Christ therefore suffered neither the death of the soule nor the paines nor horrors os the damned or of hell Euery sinne is common to the whole man who is defiled euen with thoughts that be euill not only because the bodie is the Seat wherein and the instrument whereby the soule worketh but also for that the first infection of sinne commeth to the soule by the bodie and the first information and prouocation to sinne riseth from the senses and affections which are mooued with corporall spirits and all the parts and powers of the bodie attend the will with most readie subiection to haue each sinne which the soule conceiueth impressed on them and executed by them And therefore the suffering for sinne in the person of the Mediatour must be common both to bodie and soule in such sort that as in transgressing our soules are the principall Agents so in the suffering for sinne his soule was the principall Patient Christ would vse no power to assuage the force and violence of his paines though he wanted none as appeareth by his ouerthrowing them with a word that came to apprehend him but submitted himselfe to his Fathers will with greater obedience and patience than any man liuing could We may therefore safely beleeue That the iustice of God condemning sinne in Christes flesh proportioned the paines of his bodie in
submission and patience of his Sonne on the Crosse. More then this if you will vrge on the person of Christ as needefull for our Redemption first proue it and then professe it at your pleasure otherwise if you boldly and vainely presume it your addle and idle wordes can not preiudice the setled and vndoubted principles of the Christian faith warranted by the word of God and fully receaued by the Church of Christ euen from the beginning To your maimed and ruinous foundation that Christ must suffer all and the very same punishment wages and vengeance of sinne which the damned doe suffer and we should haue suffered had we not beene excused by his suffering it for vs I haue plainly and sadly answered I know not how often it is a false and lewd imagination and so impious that your selfe dare not in your late Defence offer it to vew without many bridles to holde it from horrible blasphemie But Sir discourser why coyne you conclusions in christian Religion that must haue three or foure exceptions to saue them from open impietie and why see you not that your speciall reseruations ouerthrow the truth of your owne assertion for where the true and proper punishment wages and vengeance of sinne in all the wicked is spirituall corporall and eternall death in your limitations at last which you forgate at first you except Christ from spirituall death which is sinne and from eternall death which is damnation of body and soule to hell fier yet you still affirme that Christ suffered the full proper punishment wages and vengeance of sinne as though these two spirituall and eternall death were no parts of the punishment vengeance due to sin or these being excepted as vnfit for Christ to suffer you could truely say Christ suffered the full and proper punishment and vengeance of sinne which consisteth of these three kinds of death And who but you would send vs such headlesse and senselesse resolutions in Diuinitie as these are I affirme that Christ suffered all gods proper wrath and vengeance for sinne I say all that the very damned do suffer namely so described and limited as is aboue said And againe He suffered from Gods hand euen as the damned doe namely in these points which are both possible and reasonable Were you some new Euangelist or vpstart Apostle it were euen enough for you to referre Christs sufferings to your description and your limitation without any farther authority but when you take vpon you with your bare word to broch so many nouelties in Christian religion without one line or letter of holy writ to vpholde your dreames and deuices who can chuse but deride your follie You pinne mens faiths for the ground of their saluation to your descriptions and your limitations to possibilitie and reason measured by your rule without any text or title of Scripture to warrant your words and then you thinke the maine question is profoundly and fully handled but your sober and wise Reader will presently finde the lamenesse or leudnesse of your grand conclusion For if Christs person not only by your possibilitie and reason but by the soundnesse of trueth and sincerenesse of faith must be exempted from sinne which is the death of the soule and from damnation which is euerlasting death why write you so boldly that Christ must suffer all Gods proper wrath euen all that the damned do suffer whereas apparently those two being excepted Christ could suffer no kinde of death but only a corporall And if by your so describing and so limiting the matter you draw Christ within the staine or guilt of sinne or within the compasse or danger of damnation hope you to finde any Christian eares so patient that will endure that monstrous and sacrilegious indignitie But you will inuent a new hell for Christ which shall haue the substance but not the circumstance of damnation and shal be inflicted by Gods immediate hand properly ye a only in the verie soule of Christ which Gods owne infinite wrathfull power and iustice can inflict for satisfaction where and how it pleaseth him The question good Sir is not of Gods power what he can do but of his will reuealed in his Word and of his promise performed in the person of his sonne for our saluation and testified by the mouthes and pennes of the Prophets and Apostles that were guided by his holy spirit to speake and write the trueth I make no doubt but God can create another heauen another earth and another hell as quickly and as easily as he did these that now are yet if any man affirme that God will so do or hath so done I must holde him for an Infidell because he gainsayth Gods trueth and belieth Gods will by pretending Gods power Talke not therefore what God can doe shew rather by the word and witnesse of trueth what God hath done to that must we trust to that are you bound and from that are you slipt You haue not so much as any colour of Scripture for these desperate nouelties and vanities I will giue them no woorse words lest you complaine of my bitternesse and if any man be but so wise as to let your proue these things before he beleeue them he is safe enough for euer admitting them I may spare my paines in refuting them yet because destitute of all other helpe you appeale to possibilitie and reason to fourbish your new inuention of another hell let vs see how handsomely you hale it onward By the law of our creation as we are men hauing a soule besides our bodie so our soule hath in it a threefolde facultie of suffering paines First that which is proper and immediate iustly so called proper because it is proper only to reasonable and immortall spirits Immediate two wayes First because it can and doth receiue an impression of sorrow and paines made from God only by and in it selfe without any outward bodily meanes thereunto Secondly it is also an immediate punishment or els correction of sinne it commeth not for any other cause at all So that thus we meane when we speake of the soules proper and immediate suffering The soules second facultie of suffering paines is not proper but common to vs with beasts namely that which is by sympathie and communion with and from the body A third kinde of painfull suffering the soule hath namely her vehement and strong affections are painfull whether they be good or euill as zeale loue compassion pitie care c. neither are these immediatly for sinne whether punishments or corrections neither are they punishments or corrections at all properly in themselues accidentally they may be when they grow so strong that they paine and grieue the soule If the walles and roofe of your new hell rise no fairer nor stand no faster then your foundation doth a weake puffe of winde will blow all away If a man should shortly answer you That the soule of man hath but one
the wages thereof to be finall depriuation of all grace and glorie and eternall damnation of bodie and soule to hell-fire how can she but quake and tremble at the very cogitation and remembrance of her owne guiltinesse and of the greatnesse of his power and iustnesse of his anger And therefore the godlie presently fall vpon the consideration hereof to condemne and detest all their sinnes and with broken and contrite harts to lament their vnrighteousnesse and to afflict their spirits with earnest and inward sorrow till by faith and repentance they find comfort in the mercies of God through Christ Iesus For want of which the wicked often in this life and speciallie at the houre of death sincke vnder the burden of their sinnes and plunged into the depth of desperation are possessed with an horrible fright and terror of the torments prepared for them in another world they feeling here on earth in their soules the remorse of sinne and sting of conscience but not able to rise vnto true repentance and hope of saluation by reason of their continuall contempt of grace whiles it was offered them which then is taken from them After this life appeare the terrible iudgements of God against sinne which the wicked so much feare and the faithful so much shun the speciall maner and meanes whereof as farre as the Scriptures deliuer them I will deferre till I come to the particular handling of them though I haue often proposed them and in part proued them but whether the words of the Scripture expressing them be allegories that is figuratiue shadowes or plaine speeches that question is not yet debated which I reserue till I haue ended the immediate suffering of the soule as this Discourser calleth it Of these sixe meanes besides the immediate hand of God to inflict paine on the soule for the punishment of sinne it pleaseth you Sir Discourser to skip foure and the other two in effect to denie Affections you say are neither punishments nor corrections at all properly in themselues and suffering by sympathie from and with the bodie is common as you auouch to vs with beasts and is no proper humane suffering because in your iudgement your first kinde of suffering from the immediate hand of God alone is the proper humane suffering which for that cause your selfe call the soules proper and immediate suffering But what if in all this you speake not one true word what if the affections that be euill be properlie punishments of sinne what if the soules suffering from and with the bodie be the true and proper humane suffering what if God vse not his immediate hand in tormenting soules but hauing ordained and appointed meanes by his wisedome and power committeth sinfull soules to be punished by those instruments and meanes which he with his hand hath prepared and in his word expressed Do you not shew your selfe a deepe Diuine that prooue points of faith by open falsities and heape vp errours by the dozens binding them with your bare word and obtruding them to the world as oracles lately slipt from heauen but go to the parts and first to the affections which you affirme are no punishments whether they be good or euill The affections of the soule that be good as the loue of God the zeale of his glorie and hope of his mercie and trueth are the speciall gifts and graces of Gods spirit and so farre from paining the soule that they breed exceeding comfort and ioy in the Holieghost The affections that are eâ—…ill are not onely the rage and reward of sinne but inflict as great anguish as may be felt in this life Concupiscence which is the root and nurse of all euill affections in vs be they sensitiue or intellectiue what is it but the inordinate and intemperate desire and loue of our owne willes and pleasures despising and hating whatsoeuer resisteth or hindereth our deuices or delights yea though it be the will and hand of God himselfe this corruption of the soule by sinne which is now naturall in vs all whence came it but from and for the punishment of the first mans sinne what is it but the verie poison of sinne and whether tendeth it but to withstand and refuse all grace that men reiecting God and reiected of God may runne headlong to the finall and eternall vengeance of their sinne It is no small punishment of sinne for men to be left to the desires of their owne hearts and to be giuen ouer to vile affections which the Apostle calleth the reward of their error and euen the fulnesse of all vnrighteousnesse which make men the seruants of sinne whiles they wait on lusts and diuers pleasures which fight against the soule by leading it captiue vnto the law of sinne which is in the members And if you doubt whether they paine the soule or no looke but on their names or their effects and you shall soone be out of doubt Anger disdaine despaire dislike detestation feare sorrow ragâ—… furie for earthly things can these be so much as conceiued or named without euident impression or mention of paine yea the fairest of our affections and those which at first flarter vs most as loue desire and pleasure I speake still of euill and vnlawfull do they not quicklie faile sowerlie leaue and sharplie vexe with their remembrance and repentance the greatest seekers and owners of them In all these worldlie desires and delights S. Austens rule is generallie true Quod sine illiciente amore non habuit sine vrente dolore non perdet He that kept them not without alluring loue loseth them with afflicting griefe As for the intellectiue passions of the soule which are the trembling at Gods wrath the feare of his power and despaire of his fauour besides the shame of sinne griefe of heart and horror of hell what torments they breed in the condemned consciences of the wicked the godly may partly iudge by that which they sometimes taste notwithstanding their present recourse to the mercies and promises of God in Christ. So that euill affections aswell intellectiue as sensitiue be punishments of sinne and painfull to the soule howsoeuer your cogitations Sir Discourser be otherwise humored Concerning the soules suffering from and with the bodie which you say is common to vs with beasts if the soule do not consider for what cause at whose hand and to what end she suffereth as also how she may be freed and what thanks is due to her deliuerer she may be well likened to the Horse and Mule in whom is no vnderstanding but the brutish dulnesse of some earthly minded men doth not make this kind of suffering not to be properly humane which God from the beginning did and doth vse to all his seruants and saints his owne sonne not excepted and whereby God worketh in all his children correction probation perfection preparation to glorie which are things most proper to men and no way communicable vnto beasts God
haue reuealed it yet that is no iust cause to doubt the trueth thereof or to preiudice the power of God who hath spoken the word as if he could not or would not performe it but rather for certaine to know and confesse that God can punish the mightiest of his Angels by the weakest of his creatures and as in sinning they haue exalted themselues by pride farre aboue their degree so in punishing them for their sinne God can and will depresse them as farre beneath their originall condition to teach them that all their strength depended on his will and pleasure So that we haue no neede to runne to the immediate hande of God alone to make him the sole tormentor of spirits as this Discourser doeth for extracting a new Quintessence of hell fire the will and word of God as it gaue to men and Angels all their power and force so may it take the same from them swelling against him when he will and subiect them to the force of any his creatures which he can endue with might to performe his commandement against all the transgressours and despisers of his righteousnesse and holinesse In summe we see that Christ suffered no part of that which the Scriptures make substantiall and essentiall to the paines of hell and damnation of the wicked I meane of that which is included in the sentence of the Iudge pronounced against them but this Discourser as he hath deuised a new kind of redemption neuer mentioned in the Scriptures nor deriued from the blood of Christ so hath he framed vs another hell then the word of God reuealeth and changed the whole course of the sacred Scriptures with his dreames and deuises that though the text of holy writ doe no way fauour his sansies yet by flying to allegories and heaping vp a number of metaphores he might entertaine some talke when his proofes did faile To vphold that Christ suffered the true paines of hell before we could be redeemed by his death bloodshed he minced hell paines into substance and accidence and least this geare should seeme grosse he shadowed the substance of hell fire with figures and allegories and sent vs at last to the immediate hand of God for all punishment of sinne in the life to come not vpon any iust ground or proofe out of Scripture but because his Mastership knew not otherwise how to carrie his conceites cleanly he vnloaded them all by tropes and metaphores vpon Gods immediate hand from which onely as he saith though very vntruely the Soule hath her proper and principall suffering But examining the parts we find no such metaphysicall substance of hell as he pretendeth no such metaphoricall fire as he affirmeth no such immediate hand of God vexing Soules and deuils in hell as he imagineth we rather find the cleane contrarie to wit his circumstances to be of the substance of the Iudgement pronounced vpon the wicked the fire in hell to be a true and substantiall fire and by that as by a peculiar meanes decreed by the will strengthened by the power and reuealed by the word of God the damned both soules and diuels to be perpetually punished and tormented each of them according to their demerits though the inward powers and faculties of the minde shall not cease most grieuously also to afflict the damned and despayring spirits And touching Christs sufferings to which all this must be referred and for which all this is discussed we finde him most free from darkenesâ—… destruction confusion remorse of sinne from malediction dereaction and desperation with their consequents and from the torment of hell â—…ire either in soule or bodie which is the second death that is in deede from all the parts of damnation noted in the Scriptures to be prouided for the reprobate which are the true paines oâ—… hell and so this deuisers dreames to bee as farre from trueth as they are from all testimonies of holy Scripture which mention no such things suffered by Christ nor make any of them needefull for Christ to suffer before he might pay the price of our redemption We doe not contend to expresse what iust measure of Gods wrath nor precisely in what manner it was reuealed and executed on Christ. Onely we knowe that whatsoeuer it were Gods very wrath and proper vengeance for sinnes though outwardly executed on the bodie yet it could not but sinke in deeper euen into the depth of the soule aâ—…d be discerned by Christ and conceaued to be such and so sustained as proceeding from God and so wound the Soule properly yea chiefly though the anguish thereof bruised his bodie ioyntly also You haue labored Sir Discourser in twentie pages of your Defence by many lame distinctions and false positions to shew vs the MANNER MEASVRE of Christs suffering the paines of hell for the sin of man The manner you made to be Christs suffering them properly yea onely in his very soule from the immediat hand of God euen as the damned do The measure you tooke to be all Gods proper wrath and vengeance for sinne yea the selfe same paines for their nature which are in hell and which are extreamest and sharpest in hell Your twelfth page told vs in plaine words These paines then in this very manner inflicted Christ felt indeede not being in the locall hell yet those being the selfe same paines for their nature which are in hell yea which are SHARPEST in hell And he discerned and receaued them properly yea ONLY in his very soule You beginne now to tell vs another tale that you doc not contend to expresse what iust measure of Gods wrath nor precisely in what manner it was reuealed and executed on Christ. Onely you know that what soeuer it was Gods very wrath and proper vengeance for sinnes though outwardly executed on the bodie could not but sinke in deeper and so wound the soule properly yea chiefly By a long processe you made vs beleeue the soules proper and immediat suffering must be from the hand of God alone without inferiour meanes and instruments and not from the bodie because that kind of suffering is common to vs with beastes and maketh not properly to our redemption And so by your refined diuinitie the stripes wounds blood and death of Christ could not properly pertaine to the price of our redemption by reason those sufferings which come by the body were common to Christ with beasts Thus reuerently and religiously to prooue your selfe a pure Christian you resolued touching the bloodshed and death of Christ sustained on the Crosse. Now as almost tyred with that blasphemous toy and perceiuing how hard it would be to please the learned with this leauen or to seduce the simple with these vnsauerie shifts which haue neither foundation nor mention in the sacred Scriptures you beginne to turne an other leafe and to tell vs you doe not contend for the iust measure nor precise maner of Christs suffering the wrath of God Only you know
which are nothing like nor neare the paines of hell For example in harty and true repentance how great is the griefe and paine of euery part and facultie of the soule detesting and abhorring sinne and fearing and feeling the power of Gods wrath and yet I trust ech penitent person doth not suffer the paines of hell Feare griefe and sorrow then the soule of Christ might deepely tast when he suffered for sinne and yet be farre from the paines of hell But your collection from my words is more absurd for where I say the soule of Christ might suffer for sinne yet by no meanes could it receiue the same wages of sinne which we should haue receiued you inferre not only without any words of mine but directlv against my words ergo I meane or I ought to meane that the soule and mind of Christ suffered the paines of hell from the immediate hand of God and so where I auouch Christ by no meanes could suffer the same wages of sin which we should haue suffered you paraphrase Imeane or I ought to meane Christ suffered the selfe same which we should haue suffered and of my negatiues you make affirmatiues and then tell the Reader I contradict my selfe But in plaine termes I allow in Christ all those afflictions and passions of the Soule which naturally and necessarily follow paine and this ALL reacheth vnto moe then meere bodily paines it includeth the soules proper and immediate paines also Where you learned to reason I doe not know but you haue the best grace to disgrace your selfe that euer I saw and if this be all the learning you haue you may clout shoes with this Al. Doe the torments of hell naturally and necessarily follow paine then whosoeuer in any part or for any cause is payned suffereth the paines of hell or at least the soules proper and immediate paines which you make extreamest and sharpest in hell Babes and boyes may thus bable it is a shame for men to talke so much out of square Let my words stand simplely as you bring them and allow in Christ all those afflictions and passions of the soule which naturally and necessarily follow paine what conclude you out of them your sight is very sharpe if you see any absurditie in them Howbeit you draw my words from their right course and sense by leauing out what pleaseth you My words are When the auncient fathers affirme that Christ dyed for vs the death of the body only we must not like children imagine they exclude the vnion operation or passion of the soule but in the death of his body and shedding of his blood they include all those afflictions and passions of the soule which naturally and necessarily follow paine and accompany death Christ suffering for vs a painefull death how could it be otherwise but such afflictions â—…nd passions of the soule as naturally and necessarily follow paine and accompâ—…ny deâ—…th should be found in the soule of Christ vnlesse we giue him an insensible flesh or impassiole soule both which are errors in the nature of Christ His flesh waâ—… sensible and his soule passible as ours is because they both were humane Paiâ—… then and death in my words are plainly referred to the body of Christ whose â—…lesh could not be wounded and blood shed as his was but naturally and necâ—…ssarily his â—…le must feele the paine thereof And yet if my words wâ—…e not limited to the paine of Châ—…sts body as indeed they are I see no inconueniencâ—… growing from them nor helpe for your fansie coÌ„tained in them Yet plaiâ—…er as fauoâ—…g your error I say 〈◊〉 paine griefe of body or mind be it neuer so great will commend Christs obedieâ—…ce patience And the punishment of sinne which proceedeth from the iusâ—…ice of God and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that Christ might and did beare Yea he suffered death with all painfâ—…â—…ut no sinfull 〈◊〉 or â—…onsequents How good a sempsteâ—… you are doth well appeaâ—… by your short cuâ—…ing and â—…ide 〈◊〉 â—…hing my words together The first sentence you take our of a Section of my 〈◊〉 wherein I purposely shew that not only the paines of hell but euen the feare oâ—… 〈◊〉 must â—…e farre from the soule of Christ. The suffering of hell paines in the soule of Christ I there refuse as not consâ—…t to the Christian 〈◊〉 but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to the 〈◊〉 â—…ertaintie sanctâ—…ie of Christs person 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 with God Immediatly after the words which you bring I say 〈◊〉 Christ there could beâ—… no apprehension of hâ—…ll paines as due to him or determiâ—… for him but â—…e mâ—…st 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 â—…are that God would be inconstant or vâ—…st which are more then 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Yea to these very words which you 〈◊〉 I â—…oyne this exception in the same 〈◊〉 but the sense of damnation or separatâ—…n from God or the feare or doubt thereof in Chrâ—…t as they quench faith and abolish grace so they dissolue the vnion and commuâ—…on of â—…ath 〈◊〉 natures or else breed a false persuasion and sinfull temptation in the soule of Christ. Who can be so sottish as not to see that my former words import Smart 〈◊〉 and gâ—…fe of body and mind which haue in them neither senâ—…e nor seare of hell paines that is of damnation or separation from God since no man is damned but vnto the pâ—…ines and place of hell and is first separated from God Wâ—…th as great discretion you fasten on an other sentence of mine where though 〈◊〉 â—…position be not generall but indefinite and hath two restraints euen from your 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to wit in this liâ—…e where Christ suffeâ—…ed in â—… like to vs who aâ—… his 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 you throw off all forgetting what your selâ—…e obiected and whereto I 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 â—…nswere and suppose that here I fully concurre with your conâ—…ites But 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 your owne obiection and that will rightly guide my solution Your reason which you proudly boasted could not be refuâ—…ed by the wiâ—… of man â—…as as you call 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 from the lesâ—…e to the more Thus doe the members of Chriâ—… 〈◊〉 the terrors 〈◊〉 God and sorrowes of hâ—…ll therefore of necessitie Christ suffered the likâ—… Pâ—…ooue you by this Aâ—…gument that Christ aâ—…ter this life suffered the terrors of God and sorrowes of hell I doe you wrong to â—…pect it for it is open impietie so to thinke or say Then do you more wrong to imagine that I extended my words farther then to refell your reason As you spake of this life though you expressed it not so I replied that the puâ—…shment 〈◊〉 sâ—…nne which proceedeth from the iustice of God in this life and is no sinne Christ might and did beare but in no wiâ—…e those terrors and feares of consciâ—…nce which procâ—… from sinne and aâ—…gment sinne Now I pray you what allowance finde you here for your new erected hell or how force you my words to fit your deuises Terror of conscience and feare of hell could haue no
strugling with death before she depart her body from which she doth not yeeld but by force of death taking from her first speech and sense and so by degrees the whole possession of hir bodie violently thrusting hir out of her seate Neither this violence of death nor this resistance of the soule may be admitted or were perceaued in the person of Christ. He might suffer nothing but willingly because the misliking of the hart is disobedience though the fact be endured Wherefore if we meane with the Apostle to confesse Christ to haue beene obedient to his death we must leaue in him both sense and will to obey euen to the last gasp and also power to breath out his soule into his Fathers hand when the time was come appointed by God for him to depart this life Againe what force created could wrest his soule from him being God and man but at his liking His owne words are none taketh my soule from me but I lay it downe of my selfe Whereon Chrysostome rightly groundeth this consequent Si nemo vtique nec mors If none then surely neither death But you would see expresse words in the Text that Christ died as I say not naturally but miraculously and then you will beleeue it Would you haue so plaine words in the text that you can not or that you should not quarrell with If you delude as your maner is the plaine words of the Scripture with kinds of speeches and large senses I see no words that can hold you but you may defend after your fashion any kind of fansie or heresie with Synecdoches Allegories and Hyperboles And though the iudgement of so great and godly fathers ioyning with the very words of the Scripture carie with it sufficient weight to a sober and religious Reader yet for your pleasure that you may see your follie I am content to cast about againe What is ponere animam in the Scripture Sir I pray is it willingly or vnwillingly to lay downe a mans soule or life You know Peters words to his Master Animam meam pro te ponam I will lay downe my life for thy sake And S. Iohns Nos debemus profratribus animas ponere We ought to lay downe our liues for our brethren And Christes Propter hoc Pater me diligit quoniam ego pono animam meam vt iterum sumam eam Therefore the Father loueth me because I lay downe my soule to take it againe In all these places ponere animam must needs be to lay downe life or soule willingly except you be so wise as to thinke that Peter in loue telleth his Master he was vnwilling to die for him and S. Iohn forwarneth vs we must not be willing to die for our brethren yea and that the Father loued the Sonne because hee was vnwilling to die for his sheepe which were Diuinitie fit for such a Doctor as you are Then tollere animam is for another to take our life or soule fromvs whether we be willing or vnwilling it should be done as appeareth by Eliahs prayer vnto God in saying take away my soule when he desired to die Resort now to the words of our Sauiour where he sayd None taketh my soule from me but I lay it downe of my selfe and see whether they inferre a peculiar maner of dying not common to others Had he meant to say no more but I die willingly as you imagine he intended pono animam I lay downe my soule had been words enow to expresse that meaning but he maketh an addition which must needs haue some force and not be an idle repetition of the same thing and likewise an opposition the contrarie whereof must be found in his death For where other mens soules are taken from them though they be neuer so willing to die as appeareth by the witnesse of Scripture I lay it downe OF MY SELFE sayth our Sauiour that is not onely of mine owne accord but by mine owne power To shew that so he doth he sayth None taketh my soule from me which they do from others I lay it downe of my selfe And lest any man should doubt as you doe whether â—…e spake of his willingnesse to die which is common to others or of his power which was proper to himselfe in full expresse and direct words to stoppe such cauilling mouthes as yours is hee addeth as a proofe of his speech I haue power to lay it downe he meaneth of himselfe as the former words conuince and haue power to take it againe this commandement haue I receiued of my Father That he was willing to lay down his soule I do not denie the word pono I lay it down proueth so much but he professeth that hee had receiued power and commandement from his Father to lay it downe of himselfe and to take it againe of himselfe This commaundement was peculiar to his person no man liuing euer had or shall haue the like this power to lay downe his soule of himselfe was as MIRACVLOVS as his power to raise himselfe from the dead since they are both compared and ioyned together These things did those ancient and learned Fathers see when they made their collections and so plaine and perspicuous are they euen in the Text it selfe that none of meane capacitie or any modestie can mistake or will outface them As for Chrysostom whom you cite hereupon he hath nothing for this point He that hath once hardned his hart and mouth against the truth will neuer stay nor sticke at any thing When you would needs out of those words He was like vs in all things inferre therefore Christ must be like vs in the manner of his death I let you see that Chrysostom auoucheth the contrary The death of Christ and his rising from the dead both these saith Chrysostom were strong and besides the common that is the naturall course of men And expounding Christs words I haue power to lay downe my soule that is saith Chrysostom I alone haue this power which you haue not In this power which he had and we haue not I trust he was vnlike vs and so Chrysostom directly refelleth your vnskilfull application of the Scripture that Christ was like vs in all things euen in the manner of his death But If it were new and not ordinarie that Christ should haue power to lay downe his life yet why may not his manhood dye naturally notwithstanding Forsooth because he vsed that power at the time of his death as he himselfe witnesseth which no man euer did or can doe As he had power which was aboue nature to lay downe his life when he himselfe would so his owne mouth testifieth that none tooke his soule from him but he layed it downe of himselfe that is of his owne accord and power when he saw his time And so Chrysostom telleth you Ita mori vires humanas excedit So to dye as Christ did passeth the power or
for the sinnes of the world But you after your slight and slippery manner though euen here you deny it very stifly when you be pressed with reasons or authorities conuey your selfe presently to your ambiguous and deceitfull termes of meere bodily sufferings and the proper sufferings of the soule and from thence you make your aduantage But what are meere bodily sufferings such as haue no communion neither with the sense nor grace of the soule can a liuing body die a shamefull and cruell death as Christ did and the soule neither like or mislike it nor so much as feele it This you inferre vpon the word onely when I conclude that Christ died a bodily death onely If the sacrifice say you As it is onely bodily and bloudy doe wholy purge sinne ‖ it followeth that no action or passion of the soule neither by Sympathie nor any other I say none at all As being in the soule was regarded as propitiatorie and meritorious Graunt first your owne termes to be true which are neither my words nor my meaning that Christs MEERE bodily sufferings without any proper sufferings of the soule were the whole Ransom for sinne how exclude you the sense affections and actions of Christs soule not to be meritorious Had Christ any sufferings in his body which his soule felt not and when his soule felt them did he not patiently obediently and willingly endure them for our sakes Or was not the patience obedience and loue of Christ meritorious How then will it follow that if Christs sufferings were MEERE BODILY without any proper sufferings of the soule no affection nor action of Christs soule was meritorious But you adde â—…f the Sacrifice As it is onely bodily bloudy and deadly doth wholy purge sinne thâ—…n no action nor passion of the soule was propitiatorie and meritorious If you meane that Christs body as it was onely dead for that is your word did without soule or life wholy purge sinne then indeed your consequent is good that neither action nor passion of the soule could be propitiatorie because the soule was not present when the body was dead But who maketh that blockish Antecedent besides your selfe Or who euer excluded Christs innocence obedience patience charitie and digniâ—…e from his bodily and bloody sacrifice before you will you seuer the manner of offering from the thing offered and call it a perfect and propitiatorie sacrifice As it was only bodily and bloudy it had no communion with any action or passion of Christs soule As being in the soule Why entangle you the Reader with an As and an As of your owne adding which no where are found in my words What sense can any wise man pike out of this The sacrifice As it is only bodily excludeth all actions and passions of the soule As being in the soule Is it so strange a kind of speech to say that Christ died only a bodily death which so many learned and auncient Fathers haue so frequently vâ—…ed before me that you should bring in your As and your As thus to kicke at it In death as in death if thereby you meane the priuation and want of soule and life there is neither paine nor sense and in the body As in the body if you take the body for a dead corps there is no absolute necessitie of a soule otherwise no body could be dead What then Had therefore Christs body no soule nor his death no paine when he suffered for our sinnes Or are you of late so souced in Sophistrie that when you heare of a body you will inferre there is neither action nor paâ—…sion of the soule in that body as in a body or whâ—…n you are told of a man tormented to death you will assure vs that in his death as death he had neither paine nor sense All men besides you conceaue in the sufferings of the body the soule as the soule must haue the sense and feeling thereof and is thereby vrged by Gods ordinance to seeke for the cause and ease thereof In their affliction saith God by his Prophet they will seeke me And Dauid sill their faces with shame that the may seeke thy name And likewise by the suffering of death they vnderstand the paine and sting of death approching and lastly separating the soule from the body And therefore Christs sacrifice for sinne though it were only bodily because no part of Christ died but only the body yet the soule endured the paine and discerned the cause thereof And though it were deadly because it ended in death and was finished by death yet the actions and affections of Christs soule as well from her selfe as from his body at the time of his passion impressed or stirred either by the cause smart author or manner of his sufferings were meritorious and made way for the satisfaction of sinne which was not accomplished but by that death of Christs body that God had determined Let therefore the Reader iudge how well you impugne my conclusion that Christ died for our sinnes the death of the body only and not the death of the soule nor of the damned and how vainly you vouch Christs death and sacrifice as they were bodily had neither paines nor patience obedience nor charitie nor any other action or passion of his soule in them Else-where I see in you manifest contrarietie hereunto for sundry times you teach that Christ did suffer peculiarly and seuerally some proper punishments which I hope were propitiatorie and meritorious in his soule besides his bodily suffering yea that this was a part of his crosse and an effect of God wrath on his soule as well as the suffering in his body I pray thee Christian Reader obserue that this Discourser plainly and fully here confesâ—…eth that I SVNDRY times teach that Christ BESIDES his bodely sufferings did suffer peculiarly and seuerally some PROPER punishments in his soule and that this was a part of his Crosse as well as the sufferings of his bodie Now iudge whether it be not a meere shift for him to beare thee in hand that the question betwixt vs is whether Christs meere bodily sufferings without anie proper sufferings of the soule be all that Christ suffered for our sinnes and the whole ransom for sinne or whether that be or can be my meaning as he outfaced thee the next Page before the contrary whereof I sundry times teach as he now confesseth But I crosse my selfe he thinketh write I know not what Sir Trifler if I contradict my selfe shew me my words my writing is extant If you will be priuie to my meaning against my words you are a strange if not a sturdie Prophet But indeede I haue neither meaning nor words sounding that way I auouch that Christ for our sinnes suffered the death of the body only and not of the soule or no death but only the death of the body Vpon these words the death of the bodie onlie if it may be inferred by
any reason or learning ergo Christs dead bodie depriued of soule and sense was the whole Ransom for our sinnes for that he meaneth by Christs death or ergo no action nor passion of Christs soule before or on his crosse was meritorious If I say these conclusions doe necessarily follow out of those words or out of the meaning of them then I must confesâ—…e I am fowly ouershot in my speach But if these be most ignorant and absurd collections from my words and from theirs that vsed that speâ—…ch before me then mayest thou see Christian Reader what meaning this man hath throughout this booke purposely to peruert and misconster all that I say to make thee beleeue I broch some strange and wonderous Doctrine But shifts lâ—… hid but a while the shame in the end will be his How then can that which I sundrie times teach of Christs sufferings in his soule be true if our whole ranâ—…om and propitiation be bodily bloudy and deadly only which is the point â—…here stand on What contradiction finde you in my words that Christ might haue and had sufferings in his soule as feare sorrow and affliction of minde and yet died no death but only a bodilie Only a bodily death doth not exclude all paines which are not bodily but all deaths saue the death of the bodie Wherefore my conclusion is whâ—…re it was That the death which the Mediator must suffer for sinne by the Apostles doctrine must onely be bodily and bloodie and therefore by no meanes the death of the soule or of the damned Yet this â—…as not our whole râ—…some you say nor the whole sacrifice for sinne the sufferings of his soule must be added vnto it When I speake of Christes death I vnderstand that maner and order of his death which the Euangelists describe for so the Scriptures meane when they speake of Christes death and from that death I doe not seuer those sufferings of his soule which the Scripturâ—…s mention because the sharpnesse of that death which his body was to suffer draue him to the deepe consideration of the cause why of the Iudge from whom and the captiue for whom he suffered Christ otherwise had not suffered death as a Redeemer if he had been ignorant of any of these or compelled by force to endure the furie of the Iewes he had power enough to stay their rage decline their bloudie hands yea to auert or decrease the paines as he thought good but because he was to offer himselfe as a willing sacrifice to suffer death to saue vs from the wrath of his Father he layed aside his owne power and submitted himselfe wholly to be disposed at his Fathers will which the Scriptures call his obedience vnto death When therefore he foresaw and felt how sharpe and painfull that death would be and was which he must and did suffer for our sinnes was it possible he should not fully cast the eyes of his â—…inde vpon the horror of our sinnes which did so sting him vpon the fiercenesse of Gods wrath which did so pursue him though he were his innocent and only sonne and vpon the terrible vengeance that rested for vs if he should mislike or refâ—…se to beare the burden of our offences If any man learned thinke it possible for Christ to suffer the one and not in spirit most cleerely to see the other I am content he shall seâ—…er the sufferings of Christs soule from the griefe and anguish of his bodily death but if it be more than absurd so to conceiue then finde we that the sight and sense of Christes extreame torments in bodie caused and vrged his soule thorowly to beholde these things with feare and sorrow which in themselues were most fearefull and could not châ—… but affect Christes soule deeply and diuersly As for the whole ransome of our sinne we shall haue occasion in the next reason more largely to treate of But you haue reasons you say to confirme your maine matter among manie these two the first the Iewish sacrifices shadowing and foreshewing the second the sacraments of Christians testifying and confirming that the true sacrifice for sinne was bodily and bloudy Still what trifling is this doth any in the world denie that the true sacrifice for sinne was the bodie bloud and death of the Redeemer Wherefore the proposition must be as I did set it in your behalfe the Iewish sacrifices were shadowes or figures and our sacraments were signes of our whole and absolute redemption by Christ I say of the whole and entire propitiatorie sacrifice or els you shrinke and leaue the question When I lacke one to set propositions in my behalfe I will send to you for helpe till then spare your paines except you might reape more thanks But you must learne to get you plainer termes or at least more plainly to expound them if you will needs be a setter of propositions for what is the WHOLE sacriâ—…ice propitiatorie and what is our WHOLE redemption By the whole sacrifice meane you the whole person of Christ that gaue himselfe for vs or intend you the whole action whereby he sanctified submitted and presented himselfe as a sacrifice of a sweet smell vnto God or by the whole vnderstand you all that in Christ was deuoted and deliuered vnto death for the satisfaction of Gods iustice And so our whole redemption doe you referre it only to remission of sinnes as the Apostle doth when he sayth We haue redemption through Christes bloud euen the forgiuenesse of sinnes or also to deliuerance from the dominion and infection of sinne and to the abolishing of all corruption in soule and bodie which is our whole and absolute redemption When the powers of heauen shall be shaken and the Sonne of man come in a cloud with power and great glorie then lift vp your heads sayth Christ for your redemption draweth neere You are sealed by the holy Spirit vnto the day of redemption sayeth Paul And Dauid God shall redeeme their soules from deceit and violence that is he shall deliuer their soulâ—…s The Saints as the Apoâ—…e speaketh were racked and would admit no redemption to obtaine a better resurrection where by redemption he meaneth deliuerance As Zacharias sayd God hath visited and sent redemption to his people that is saluation or deliuerance from our enemies and from the hands of all that hate vs to serue him in holinesse and righteousnesse all the dayes of our life So that our whole and absolute redemption compriseth all the degrees and steps of our saluation as iustification sanctification and glorification and these though they were merited and obtained for vs by Christes obedience vnto dâ—…ath yet are they performed and accomplished by diuers other meanes therewith concurring and thereon depending as by the grace of his spirit the working of his power and glory of his comming And therefore the words which you haue set in my behalfe are like their authour that is they are
whether you make the Soule of Christ mortall as your words here stand because he suffered the death of the soule as you imagine or whether this were the scape of your Printer but by such demonstrations as these are supported with figures and fansies of your owne making you may prooue what you will That the Brasen Serpent was a figure of Christs death Christ himselfe witnesseth Whence you may inferre after your manner that Christ had no true flesh nor felt death For the Brasen Serpent had neither flesh to feele nor life to loose So the Lord expresseth that Ionas was a figure of his lying in the graue and yet was Ionas aliue in the Whales belly May it therefore be concluded that Christ was neuer dead nor buried because Ionas indeede was neither Figures haue a resemblance to some things in Christ not to all as the brasen Serpent to his fastning on the Crosse and sauing all that beheld him in faith Ionas to the time that he lay in his graue and to the impossibilitie conceaued of his resurrection So the Scape-goate notwithstanding your must needs be and could not be mighâ—… signifie the impassible godhead of Christ as Theodoret and Isychius affirme since power to take away sin and to cleanse it without any suffering for it is proper to God It might likewise resemble the detestation and hatred the Iewes had of Christ when they cryed away with him away with him if the vsage of the people towards the Scape-goate were such as Tertullian describeth which was to spit at him punch him and curse him as he was caried out of the Citie And where he went away aliue for all their spites and wrongs that might declare either his resurrection into life eternall which they could not touch or else the disposition of his life here not left in the peoples hands but reserued to his owne power till he did willingly offer it as a sacrifice vnto God Ambrose saith of him Quasi arbiter exuendi suscipiendique corporis emisit spiritum non amisit As hauing power in himselfe to lay aside and to take againe his body he sent foorth his soule he lost it not And likewise Eusebius When no man had power ouer Christs soule he himselfe of his owne accord laid it downe for man 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 So loosed from all force and resting free him selfe of him selfe made the departure from his body This the Scape-goate I say might figure as some ancient Fathers auouch your reasons to the contrary are but rushes vnfit to conclude such a cause considering that no figure agreeth in all things with the truth for then it should be no figure but the truth and you collect some small disagreements betweene the figure and the truth Againe as you suppose for some petite difference the Scape-goat could not figure the deity nor body of Christ so I vpon stronger grounds collect it could not signifie the proper sufferings of Christs soule if your word were of any waight your selfe auouch that which I entend Those bâ—…asts sacrifices say you could not prefigure the immortall and reasonable soule of Christ. If that be true which is your owne auerment how could the Scape-goat which I troe was a beast as you say a sacrifice figure the sufferings of Christs soule which were inward and invisible as was his soule Can you so closely conuey contradictions as in your treatise to tell vs the sacrifices of beasts could not prefigure the immortall soule of Christ and in your defence to assure vs it must be ofnecessitie that the Scape-goat signified the humane soule of Christ Besides if the Scape-goat signified Christs soule sent away from his body for the other goat was first slain it must of force import Christs death for without death his soule was not separated from his body And so by your vrging that it could not signifie Christs death you plainly confirme it did signifie Christes death Thirdly the place whither the Scape-goat was sent was the Wildernes and a land vnhabitabie Now the soule of Christ seuered from his body went to heauen as you hold or to Paradise Is heauen or Paradise with you become a wildernes a land not inhabited Fourthly the Scape-goat after he was sent away did beare vpon him all the sinnes of the people Dare you say that Christs soule departed from his body did beare or suffer the punishment of the peoples sinnes Your meaning is but to shew what you thinke to be indeed most probable and likely knowing that yet some such matter as you ayme at they doe signifie without Question After it must be of necessitie come you now with probabilitie and is your doubtles so soone turned into likelihood The Reader is well holpen vp to rest on your word and to beleeue SOME SVCH MATTER AS YOV AYME AT But backe to the matter indeed and then your Reader shall finde euen by your owne confession besides my proofes that you do but ayme at these things vpon the bare surmise of your own braine and that you can shew no sacrifices of the Iewes which did figure the proper sufferings of Christs foule much lesse the death of his soule which is the matter that we differ about howsoeuer you would now loose your necke out of the coller We reade of other sacrifices consisting of sacrifices of sundry and diuers sorts The bloody sacrifice had conioyned together with it the vnbloody sacrifice of the meate offering and an other of the drinke offering Which may very likely represent vnto vs the sundry and diuers kinds of Christs meritorious sufferings in his life time and at his death You coniecture still so farre from truth that few men will regard your coniecturall likelihoods Why Salt Flower Oyle and Wine were added to the carnall sacrifices of the Iewes much may be ghessed litle can be prooued They might well serue to make the sacrifice the sweeter and the fuller and so resemble the fragrancie and sufficiencie of Christs death but what reason you haue to make Christes life to be thought his death and his merits all one with his sufferings and things without sense or life to figure the sufferings of his soule and you know not what besides I doe not see but onely that your will is your best weapon when you be put to the push of any proofe Yea in the same side where you reiect the iudgement of Cyrill Ambrose and Bede as wide coniectures and palpable mistakings you come in with your foolish supposals and offer them to all the godly as matters of good moment onely because you fansie them But mocke not your Reader with may and must as you thinke your thoughts must be wiser and neerer the truth before a meane man will regard them Who but I you say would defend these palpable mistakings of the auncients and not see the expresse text against them Nay who but you would so peremptorily
and necessarie actions passions and proprieties the whole receiueth his attribute from a part And so my words rest sound and true both in humane reason and in holie Scripture notwithstanding your vaine proclamation of so cleere and expresse an absurditie in them But you must be borne with your humor is so sharpe and your head so shallow that your left hand knoweth not what your right sâ—…ibleth Your despising the Ecclesiasticall historie as a fable is a sparke of your pride from which few ancient writers are free howbeit the Scriptures are plaine enough for my purpose to proue that Christs body was truely broken They witnesse that the Iewes buffeted him with their sistes and smote him with their Sâ—…rieants staues thar Pilate scourged him that the souldiers platted a crowne of thornes on his head and then did beate him on the head with reedes and roddes that his crucifiers digged his hands and seete and pulled all his bones out of ioynt and that in this plight the waight of his body hung on the crosse three houres by the wounds of his hands feete and when he was dead his side was pearced with a speare besides the mockes wrongs and taunts that were offered him on euery side and yet all this you say is not in any sense proportionable to the proprietie of the word KLO'MENON and MEDVCCA You prate of PROPRIETIES and proportions to no end but to colour your absurdities and presumptions What Christian Reader will endure you to say that the Apostle in applying the word KLO'MENON to the body of Christ had neither proprietie nor proportion to the right sense of the word If he did not speake properly in those words which is broken for you as I thinke he did yet at least he must speake metaphorically and figuratiuely and so keepe a resemblance and proportion to the originall sense of the word except your wisedome will auouch that the holy Ghost ignorantly and vnaduisedly abuseth the word Which if you confesse of your selfe I will easily beleeue because you neither know what you affirme nor what you deny For where afore you said in plaine words the breaking of the bread CAN NOT PROPERLY BELONG BVT TO THE SOVLE of Christ Now you graunt it properly belongeth neither to body nor to soule onely from powder and peeces you take a iust and full proportion in the soule to the proper sense of those words You haue me in iealousie that I thinke you to be a senslesse foole indeed I thinke you to be more conceited then learned and a great deale more shifting then sound though in this booke you haue sought the helpe of all your friends to maintaine the most of your matters with as it were but if you reiect the Apostles words as wanting both proprietie and proportion except your hell paines be admitted and make out iust and full proportions from powder and peeces vnto the soule of Christ I doubt your Reader will thinke these be senslesse and foolish Toyes If I would play with proportions as you doe I neede not depart from the words of the holy Ghost to find a fairer resemblance to the proper sense of those words in the body of Christ crucified then you make any All my bones are sundered saith Dauid in the person of Christ and thou hast brought me into the dust of death Of which and all that went before Eusebius saith what else doe all these signifie but the condition of Christs dead body Wherefore he presently addeth and into the dust of death thou hast brought me Here in expresse words is the dust of death to which Christs body was brought and besides all his bones were sundered Now to be sundered is euidently to be diuided and that must be with parts or peeces the naturall coherence wherewith the bones were formerly ioyned being losed and dissolued though one part be not seuered from the other Whether therefore the word broken be properly or figuratiuely taken I see no cause why the Apostles words may not in either sense be fully true For if the Ioynts vaines sinewes flesh and skinne of Christs body from head to foote were properly straeined rent and torne besides the seuering of his soule from his body then was his body truely broken If by breaking we figuratiuely meane as others doe the affliction and anguish of Christs body then as no part was free from it so no increase of bodily paine in this life could be added to his sufferings and so in either respect your hell paines haue their pasport till you find some fitter place and better proofe for them then either KLO'MENON or MEDVCCA The next point you vndertake is whether the blood of Christ be the full Redemption as well of our bodies as of our Soules in this life Wherein because the word Redemption is diuersly taken in the Scriptures as for deliuerance sometimes from sinne sometimes from death sometimes from the power and feare of either and all the promises of God we haue now in hope though not some of them indeed till the generall resurrection you shew your selfe cunning in carping at words which you labour to turne and wind euery way But before you come to it you make a short and swift answere to all the places of Scripture which I produce touching the force and effects of Christs blood least you should haue any neede to trouble your selfe hereafter about any of them Where as your manner is throughout your booke you first chaunge the question with adding your witlesse and senslesse termes of meere single and simple to my words and then without any more adoe Your aduised and resolute answere to all is this there is not one text any where that hath any meaning of my strange conceite It were reason a man would thinke you tooke the paines to impugne my words and not to presume you know my meaning against my words and so to frame it after your fashion with your new found phrases which I abhor as much as I doe your new found faith You will prooue the blood of our Sauiour is the true price of our Redemption and that as well of our soules as of our bodies Who denieth this as your words runne It is happie yet that my words runne well whatsoeuer my conceite be Now if I meane no more then I speake and the sacred Scriptures fully concurre with that which I speake then haue I both the word of God to warrant that I teach and besides your owne confession that as I speake it it is truth But you know I meane that no more but the shedding of Christs blood ONLY AND MEERELY is the iust and full satisfaction of all our sinnes What my meaning is you cannot be ignorant I haue often declared it not here only but in my Sermons and conclusion also as I haue formerly shewed and you haue plainely confessed I will once more repeate your
owne words and hereafter by your leaue tell you it is a plaine lye and a meere shift if you father your termes of Christs meere blood and single bodie vpon me as any part of the Question which I mooued or Doctrine which I defend Wherefore I pray thee Christian Reader once more to take notice that I be not driuen in euery page to proue one and the same thing against the Discoursers vnsauery childish and Idle phrases with which he would faine elude the Scriptures and delude the world Your confession both of my Sermons and conclusion Sir Descourser is this Sundry times you teach that Christ did suffer peculiarly and seuerally some proper punishments in his soule besides his bodily sufferings yea that this was a part of his crosse and the effect of Gods wrath on his soule as well as the suffering in his body Against my words so often witnessed in my writings and so openly confessed by your selfe you take vpon you by some secret reuelation belike to know my meaning that no more but the shedding of Christs blood MEERELY is the full satisfaction of all our sinnes which MEERE BLOOD of Christ the Scriptures meane not nor onely his body SINGLY and SIMPLY considered The MEERE blood and SINGLE and SIMPLE body of Christ with such like couerts of your cause are termes fit for such a teacher as you are to which if you could once conuert the Question we must haue as many Lexicons to bring vs out of these Laberinthes as there be leaues in your booke Keepe them therefore as whelps of your owne litture the faith of Christ and the word of God hath stood without them these sixteene hundered yeeres What I meane by the body and blood of Christ giuen and shed for our Redemption and the remission of our sinne I haue meetly well expressed I must not in euery section fall to fresh repetitions When I speake as the Scripture speaketh I meane as the Scripture meaneth They know not your new termes of the MEERE blood nor of the single and simple body of Christ but by his blood and death they meane that manner of shedding his blood and that kind and course of death suffered in the body of his flesh which the Gospell describeth no way excluding from Christ when he presented himselfe before God to vndertake mans cause the due consideration of mans infirmitie and iniquitie abounding or of Gods iustice therewith displeased nor his humble and voluntary submission to the mightie hand and righteous will of his heauenly Father to excuse vs from the heauie iudgement that otherwise did hang ouer our heads So much as the Scriptures mention in declaring the manner of his death and bloodshedding so much they containe in the name of his Crosse blood and death For as the description which the holy Ghost maketh is in no point idle so the comprehension of all vnder one word excludeth nothing formerly described This I take to be a sound and sure way to expound the Scriptures by their owne direction and intention For since the manner and order of Christs death was so carefully regestred by the spirite of God that we should not be ignorant of it whensoeuer the Scriptures speake of Christs Crosse blood and death they referre vs to all that which either by the Prophets was foretold or in the Gospell is expressed touching the order and manner of his death And so Christ died for our sinnes according to the Scriptures as Paul addeth Then to take any thing from it which is mentioned in the Scriptures or to adde any thing to it which is not there expresly recorded is to depart from the word of trueth and to dishonor and deface the death and bloud of Christ with our inuentions This being my meaning euen from the beginning as my words declare I moued these two generall questions The first Whether in the crosse and death of Christ described in the Scriptures the death of the soule or the death of the damned were by any good warrant of the sayd Scriptures comprised Secondly Whether the crosse and death of Christ as the Scriptures describe them be not the full and perfect price of our redemption from sinne and reconciliation to God by the testimonie of the same Scriptures without the death of the soule or paines of the damned The Discourser finding himselfe inclosed with these questions speaketh directlie to neither and prooueth nothing in either but declining the enuie of these speeches the death of the soule and the paines of the damned which indeed are the points misliked and reiected he changeth the first question into the generall termes of suffering Gods wrath and the soules proper suffering which may import manie things besides those two and in the second he euery where beareth the Reader in hand that by the death and bloud of Christ I meane the MEERE bodily sufferings of Christ without anie sense or sorrow of the soule in her spirituall powers And lest the Scripture should stand in his way he casteth them all behinde him that any way witnesse the force and merit of Christes death and bloudshedding as figuratiue speeches because they name not the MEERE bloud of Christ nor only his body SINGLY considered But Sir all this while you forget that you haue proued nothing but onely supposed and auouched what pleased you and that in matters of faith you may not adde to the word of God without manifest apostasie The things questioned by me were the death of the soule and the verie paines of the damned as appeareth euidently by my words when I first mooued the question Of these you say nothing all this while which yet you must soundly fully proue before you may adde them to the words of the Holy ghost testifying the power vertue of Christes bloud and death Therefore howsoeuer you seeme to shift off the Scriptures as figuratiue speeches with your MEERE and SINGLE termes they will sticke faster by you than so For as there can be no doubt of my meaning comprising all in the death and bloud of Christ which the Scriptures report of the order and maner of his sufferings when he yeelded himselfe to die for the sinnes of the world according to the counsell of his Fathers wil so you may not presume any thing to be conteined in the death or crosse of Christ as requisite for our redemption which is not cleerely witnessed by the Scriptures Proue therefore by the Scriptures that Christ died the death of the soule or the death of the damned which are the true paines of hell and then adde it to the crosse of Christ when you will Till so you do the Scriptures which I haue produced stand in their full strength against you For as they bind all Christian men stedfastly to beleeue that which is written touching their redemption by the death and bloud of Christ so do they straitly prohibit all and euery be they men or Angels to adde any other
life of all And that this is most perfect charitie I will cite our Sauiour himselfe for a witnesse where he saith greater loue hath no man then to lay downe his soule for his friends By all this Christ teacheth his Disciples to be so farre from shunning daungers and troubles for the saluation of men that the death of the flesh must not be refused for euen to that doth charitie stretch Fulgentius an other of the Fathers on whom you would faine fasten your error of Christs redeeming our soules by the death of his soule and our bodies by the death of his body not only noteth when and how Christ laid downe his soule for vs but why that phrase is applyed to Christs death and to all theirs that die willingly for loue not necessarily vpon constraint The whole man Christ laid downe his soule when his soule departed his flesh dying on the crosse And so againe Christ dying in the flesh laid downe his Soule and shewing the difference betwixt deliuering the body to death and giuing or laying downe the soule He saith Where loue is not the body is said to be deliuered but not the soule to be laid downe as the vessell of election plainly testifieth If I giue my body to be burnt and haue no loue it auayleth me nothing Here Paule declareth that without loue the body may be yeelded but not the soule laid downe For where he purposeth to signifie the purenesse of his loue he thus writeth to the Thessalonians Our goodwill was to bestow on you not onely the Gospell of God but euen our owne soules and to proue this an effect of his loue he addeth because yee were deare vnto vs. So that it is proued by manifest witnesse of Scripture that there wanteth loue where the body onely is layed downe to death but there is charitie where the soule is laid downe together with the body Beda Ponere ergo animam mori est Sic Apostolus Petrus Domino dixit animam pro te ponam id est pro te moriar carne To lay downe the Soule is to die So the Apostle Peter said to Christ I will lay downe my Soule for thee that is I will die in the flesh for thee A good sheepeheard saith Christ layeth downe his soule for his sheepe He did that he taught he performed that he commaunded he laid downe his Soule for his sheepe and shewed vs a way to contemne death which we must follow and a paterne after which we must be Printed which is first to extend our outward works of mercie towards his sheepe then if neede be to offer our death for them The later writers are all of the same mind and expound those words of our Sauiour the Sonne of man came to serue and to giue his soule a ransome for many and I lay downe my soule for my sheepe to haue none other sense then that he would die for vs as the Fathers before them did expound the same Erasmus in his paraphrase expressing our Sauiours meaning in both places saith in the person of Christ Therefore I came euen to serue the welfare of all in so much that I thinke it no burden to giue my life by the losse of one soule to redeeme many And againe Therefore my Father loueth me singularly as his Sonne because of mine owne accord I bestowed my life for the safetie of my Fathers flocke Bullinger likewise in the person of our Sauiour I came to serue the good of all and that which is farre greater I came into this world to giue my life for sinners And so I yeeld my selfe to death and euen to the death of the crosse that my sheepe beleeuing in me may liue by my death And alleadging and relying on Saint Austens words on the same place he addeth out of Austen To lay downe the soule is to die So Peter the Apostle said to his Master I will lay downe my soule for thee that is I will die for thee Attribute this to the flesh for when the soule goeth out of the flesh and the flesh remaineth without a soule then is a man said to lay downe his soule What saith the Euangelist Christ bowing his head gaue vp the Ghost this is to lay downe the soule Musculus Christ declareth what his ministerie is euen to redeeme mortall men and the chiefest degree of this ministerie is that he would giue his soule for them Then are we redeemed by the onely begotten Sonne of God and that dearely euen with his owne death For the Lord of heauen and earth humbled himselfe vnto death and that vnto a most shamefull death What was more vile or more abiect in the world then the death of the crosse And in the person of Christ Therefore my Father loueth me because I lay downe my soule that is because I die for my sheepe Caluine vpon those words of Christ I came to giue my soule a Redemption for many Therefore Christ mentioneth his death that he might withdraw his Disciples from a peruerse imagination of an earthly kingdome In the meane time the force and fruite of his death is aptly and rightly expressed whiles he affirmeth his life to be the price of our Redemption Whence it followeth that the price of our reconciliation with God is no where found but in the death of Christ and so It is no maruaile that Christ affirmeth himselfe to be therefore loued of his Father because he esteemeth our saluation dearer then his owne life He would by this arme his Disciples least seeing him soone after to be caried to death they should faint in hart as if he were oppressed by his enimies but rather acknowledge it to be the wonderfull prouidence of God that he should die to redeeme the flocke Gualter Christ saith he came to giue his soule to be the price of Redemption for many This passeth all offices that men may yeeld one to another For as him selfe saith no man hath greater loue then this to giue his soule for his friends But he vouchsafeth to die for his enimies And dying for vs he bestowed life on vs because his death was a ransome sufficient for the sinnes of the world And so A good sheepeheard saith Christ layeth downe his soule for his sheepe b As if he should haue said who can deny him to be a good sheepeheard that so much loueth his sheepe as not to refuse to redeeme their safetie with the losse of his owne life And because the Sonne of God hath exposed or yeelded his life for vs who can doubt but he hath satisfied abundantly for vs Vitus Theodorus Christ saith the sonne of man came to minister and to giue his life for the Redemption of all That surely is the chiefest and truest loue and seruice when a man serueth his enimies with body and life And likewise in the person of Christ. I alone am the good
Christi potest ostendi commortua When Christ died in the flesh neither can the godhead nor the soule of Christ be shewed to haue bene also dead And of hell paines he saith Dignum fuit vt animam dolor non contigisset inferni quam seruitus nequiuit tenere peccati It was a meete and right thing that the paines of hell should not touch that soule whom the seruitude of sinne could not fasten on Yet Cyrill in the place aboue cited SEEMETH to acknowledge A KIND OF DEATH EVEN OF THE SOVLE from which Christ reuiued againe But of that in due place hereafter Is the death of Christs soule so slender a matter that you may collect it by a seeming and a kind of death without any mention or occasion of any such thing comprised in Cyrils words The Reader may there obserue what your maine intent is and whereon you fasten your eyes all this while euen on the death of Christs soule to be requisite for our Redemption though you finde no such thing in Scripture or Father but miserably and childishly slide it in at last with a seeming Now if there be no such thing in Cyrils words nor any such seeming how wel deserue you to be hissed out with hands if not to be hurled out by the heeles for a seeming sleeper if not for a waking dreamer what are those words of Cyrill that seeme to acknowledge the death of Christs soule Christ bestowed his flesh as a ransome for our flesh and made his soule likewise the price of redemption for our soules although he liued againe being by nature life it selfe It is lawfull for you to further euery place you bring with a mayned and forced translation Cyrils true words stand thus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Without constraint of any Christ of himselfe laide downe his owne soule for vs that he might be Lord of dead and quicke yeelding his flesh in recompence as a gift fully worth it for the flesh of all and making his soule or life a ransome for the soule or life of all though he reuiued againe being life by nature in that he was God The words which you would cite are heere no perfect sentence as hauing no principall verbe in them and therefore must be ioyned with the former and depend vpon the verbe 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Christ layd downe his soule which gouerneth the whole as appeareth also by the two participles 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 yeelding in recompence and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 making which must be directed by the same nominatiue case that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is and likewise by the opposition of the verbe 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 he reuiued Of what death Cyrill here speaketh is more then manifest by the words of our Sauiour here vsed and deriued from the Gospell where he said None taketh my soule from me or constraineth me to die I lay it downe of my selfe and likewise the Sonne of man came to giue his soule or life a ransome for many What kind of death those words of Christ imported I made it appeare but a little before by the full consent of Scriptures and interpreters old and new and of Cyrill himselfe who all with one accord referre both those sayings to the death of Christs bodie and the losse of his life on the Crosse when his soule departed from him Set that downe in Cyrils first words for the death which Christ died by the constant assertion of Scriptures Fathers New writers and of Cyrill himselfe and then the words which you alleage shew plainely the force of his corporall death to be auaileable for the bodies and soules of all men in that his flesh yeelded to death was a recompence or exchange for all mens flesh and his soule laide downe without constraint of any was the ransome of all mens soules and he notwithstanding rose againe the third day to life by his owne power as being God and life it selfe against whom death could preuaile no farder nor longer then hee him selfe would Where are the words that acknowledge the death of Christs Soule or that so much as seeme to acknowledge a kind of death in the soule of Christ Here are the cleane contrarie For if the death of Christs bodie by which he laid aside his soule for vs be sufficient to redeeme the bodies and soules of all men then superfluous and needlesse euen by these words was the death of Christs soule the whole being fully perfourmed without it But he gaue his flesh to be a ransome for our flesh and his soule for our soules you say and yet liued againe Cyrill doth not say by seuerall deaths but by one and the same death which was the laying down of his soule or life for vs as Christ himselfe in the Gospel said he would If those wordes inferre the death of Christes soule why bring you not the words of Christ himselfe saying The Sonne of man came to giue his soule a ransome for many You saw the Scriptures themselues and the whole Church of Christ first and last I meane all old and new writers translators and expositors would condemne your folly therin in most exact words taking soule there for life which must needes import the death of Christs bodie And therefore you thought it more safetie to catch at the same words in some Father for whose meaning there could not be brought so many and so sound deponents But all in vaine For if Christ had no meaning in those wordes to point out the death of his owne soule then Cyrill alleaging and obseruing the words of Christ can haue no such purpose as to crosse the Scriptures himselfe and all the Fathers of Christs Church in a matter so dangerous and desperate as the death of Christs soule amounteth vnto In the meane while his words conclude no such thing neither in saying nor in seeming and so your embracing them to that end argueth your good will to seeke but your euill lucke to finde any such thing as the death of Christs soule in all the Fathers Cyrill doth not say Christ rose againe which properly belongeth to the body but he reuiued or liued againe which seemeth to be spoken of the Soule Then Saint Paul maketh more for you then Cyrill doth for he affirmeth both os Christ to this end saith he Christ died and rose againe and reuiued that he might be Lord of dead and liuing And indeed resurrection properly noteth from whence Christ arose to wit from the graue Reuiuing expresseth the blessed and glorious life which he enioyed after he was risen from the dead Christ himselfe saith of his they shall come forth of their graues vnto the resurrection of life to separate them from the wicked who shall come likewise forth vnto the resurrection but of iudgement and condemnation Notwithstanding in Christ there is either no difference betwixt them the one euer implying the other or if we make any Christs reuiuing alwaies presupposeth
at his death as all his life long had both a body and a perfect reasonable and humane soule indued with all the powers affections and infirmities of mans nature saue sinne and the corruption of sinne yet is it no consequent with Ambrose that Christs soule was made of a woman as his flesh was nor that Christ died the death of the soule when his body died on the Crosse. Let them doubt saith Ambrose of that which the Prophet saith my soule hateth your new Moones and Sabboths This that is testified in the Gospel therefore the Father loueth me because I lay downe my soule to take it againe they can not refute to bee spoken of the proprietie of the soule when as it is spoken of the Lords death and resurrection The bodie of Christ could not die but by laying downe his soule as also it could not rise to life but by taking it againe So that both Christes death and his resurrection doe cleerely prooue that he had a true soule as Ambrose noteth which by his death was seuered from his body and by his resurrection was assumed againe into his body And yet that death was proper to Christs body and not to his soule though the soule felt the smart and sting thereof as well before as when it departed from his body Corpus est quod amit tit animam amittendo fit mortuum it a mortui vocabulum corpori competit Porro si resurrectio mortui est mortuum autem non aliud est quà m corpus corporis erit resurrectio It is the body saith Tertullian that looseth the soule and by loosing it dieth so that the word dead agreeth to the body Now if the resurrection be of that which was dead and nothing can be dead besides the body Resurrection must likewise pertaine to the body This death and this resurrection I meane of the body was found in Christ yours is very strange to Ambrose and to all the Fathers Per quam nisiper corporis mortem mortis vincula dissoluit By what other death saith Ambrose then by the death of the body did Christ breake the bands of death Thus haue you spent your great store of Fathers with small successe and though you dissemble where you borrowed them yet you dissemble not your excessiue bragging of them as if they were cleane against me and for you in the chiefest point of this question where indeede you doe but reach after a word in them here and there and that not rightly conceaued or not rightly translated from whence you would faine inferre your fansies saue that neither the grounds of trueth nor learning will beare you out in your conclusions That Christs sufferings did belong to bodie and soule the Fathers affirme whether by Sympathie or without Sympathie they say nothing much lesse that Christ suffered in minde distinctly from soule or bodie Nazianzene saith he assumed mans mind at his incarnation that thereby he might sanctifie it besides him not one of your places so much as nameth the minde As for Gods immediate hand punishing the soule of Christ in his passion if you should fast till you find that in these or any other Fathers you should fast not fourtie dayes but yeares And as though these were not falsities enough to loade the Fathers with you hoyse vp the top sayle of vntrueth and flant it out that these Fathers say Christ suffered all these paines which els we should haue suffered and was spared in nothing plainely belying your Authors which say no such thing and out-facing your Reader as if his sight did not serue him to seuer your shamefull additions from the texts of those ancient writers Cyrill sayth Christ suffered all things that is all naturall and innocent infirmities and passions of bodie and soule as Cyrill explaineth himselfe in the same Chapter yea in the close of the very same sentence to whose words you adde of your owne WHICH els we should haue suffered Only you ioyned them at first so cunningly to Cyrils sentence hauing two parts that a man could not readily tell to which you referred this addition saue that now in the recapitulation of your proofes you apparantly tie them to the former For if you made Cyrill to say Christ suffered to free vs from all which els we should haue suffered that assertion is verie true onely these last words are yours and not Cyrils If you make him to say Christ suffered all which els we should haue suffered this hath neither trueth in it nor any colour in Cyrils text Ierome indeede saith Christ suffered that which we ought to haue suffered meaning what Christ suffered was due to vs and not to him but Ierome is farre from your all which els we should haue suffered Your sleight then in collecting your conceits from the Fathers sayings is woorth the obseruing Nazianzene sayth Christ in his incarnation assumed mans mind to sanctisie it Cyrill saith Christ SVFFERED ALL the infirmities and passions of mans nature Ierome sayth That which was due to vs for our sinnes Christ suffered for vs. And Tertullian saith God spared not his owne Sonne but deliuered him for vs that is God spared him not from deliuering Out of these foure places hauing different causes ends and respects for which to which in which they were written you clout this conclusion as common to them all which is repugnant to euery one of them that Christ IN MIND so saieth Nazianzene SVFFERED ALL so saith Cyrill WHICH VVAS DVE TO VS so saith Ierome WITHOVT SPARING so saith Tertullian By this order and manner of hudling and hampering different things and diuerse places together you may collect what you will when you will and out of whom you will and this is your cleare and plaine sense of the Fathers against the which you say I can take no exception After this you fal againe to your first trench more of termes and wandering a while about the phrases of Gods proper wrath the true and right punishment of sinne two countenances in Christ and the coincidence of his soule and spirit you would faine conclude if you could that if Christ suffered the wrath of God for vs he suffered the true paines of hell which I auouched you neuer should be able to doe Whether I or you abuse the Reader with ambiguous and doubtfull words I leaue to his iudgement that taketh the paines to peruse what is past and what followeth truely I disaduantage my selfe very much so precisely to diuide distinguish and prooue euery thing as I doe if I ment to slide away with generalities But you that neither can nor will specifie any parts nor bring any proofes of your chiefest assertions but keepe your selfe safe vnder the shelter of certaine phrases deuised by your selfe without any warrant of Scriptures or Fathers and neuer expounded nor defined in all your writing saue onely with AS IT VVERE and after a sort what meaning you can haue to handle so great
doth directly inferre that either we were not begotten and conceiued in sinne which is an euident heresie repugnant to Dauids wordes or els the vntimely fruites and scapes of women haue reasonable soules at the very instant of their conception when sinne is found in them by Dauids words which is this grosse absurd and false conceite that now you would shunne If you flie for helpe to actuall sinne haue children actuall sinne in their mothers wombes or as soone as they haue reasonable soules Or is actuall sinne traduced and inherited from Adam or spake I of actuall sinne when I said we inherite pollution from Adams flesh before the soule commeth Will you sticke to it and say originall pollution is no sinne Dauid conuinceth you who saith he was begotten in sinnes and conceaued in iniquitie and Paul affirmeth that death went ouer all men infants not excepted for so much as all men haue sinned and euen ouer them also who sinned not after the likenesse of Adams transgression that is who did not commit sinne as Adam did actually and voluntarily but naturally inherited sinne from Adam which dwelleth in them from the houre of their conception to the time of their dissolution and worketh the euill in them that they would not leading them captiue to the law of sinne which is in their members But how could Dauid say he was conceiued in sinne when at the time of his conception he had neither bodie nor soule Howsoeuer mans reason iudge thereof which yet often giueth the name of the whole to a part and the titles of things represented to their images with God nothing is more frequent than to call those things which are not as though they were because he not only made all things of nothing but quickeneth the dead and hath things past and to come present before him Leui is sayd by the Scripture to haue payed tithes to Melchisedech by Abraham as being then in Abrahams loines when Leuies grandfather was not yet borne So God by his Prophet spake to Cyrus many yeeres before Cyrus was borne calling him his anointed and saying to him by name thou art my shepheard So certaine is the counsell of God and his purpose so immutable that he speaketh in the Scriptures of things to come as if they were past or present Out of this infallible decree of God Dauid and Iob call that seed which was prepared to be the matter of their bodies by the names of themselues because it could not be altered what God had appointed But the void conceptions of women which miscarie before the bodie be framed neuer had either life or soule and so neither name nor kinde but perish as other superfluous burdens and repletions of the bodie which God hath appointed to no vse saue to ease the bodie In satisfaction for sinne you runne the same course that you do in the rest for neither vnderstanding my words nor almost any mans els rightly you fight with your owne fansies as if they were parts of my faith I sayd the Scripture acknowledgeth no satisfaction for sinne but by death I did and do so say what then Still we must note that by death you meane onlie the bodilie death In Christes person I alwayes meane by the death which he suffered the death of the bodie though you would include the death of the soule which I do not In the wicked I take death for all kinds of death corporall spirituall and eternall What can you hence distill Then surely the wicked should satisfie easily for their sinnes Farre be it from me to vtter such a sentence Doe the wicked with any kinde of death satisfie for their sinnes or is their condemnation to hell paines therefore eternall because by no death they can satisfie for their sinnes Were the iustice of God once satisfied by any thing the wicked could suffer their torments should cease but their punishments euerlastingly continue for that no satisfaction can be made to God by them suffer they neuer so much or neuer so long Whose follie then is it to pronounce that the wicked may satisfie for their sinnes mine or yours I sayd no such word I directly auouched the contrary The paines of hell haue neither worth nor weight sufficient in themselues to satisfie the anger or to procure the fauor of God Satisfaction for sinne I ascribe to none but onlie to Christ and in him to no death but onlie to that of his body Will it thence follow the Scripture acknowledgeth no satisfaction but by some kind of death ergo the wicked may satisfie for their sinnes by the deaths which they suffer Be it farre from all wise men to make such consequents and from all Christian men to make such conclusions The antecedent in effect is confessed by your selfe The Scriptures you say do shew indeed that Christ should not satisfie without death I sayd the same By satisfaction I meant full satisfaction when no more could be exacted as the word importeth and not the concurrents or precedents to satisfaction when the chiefest is vnpayed Why then doth your absurd and leud conclusion folow more vpon my words than vpon your owne My proofs are not good with those you finde fault If yours were no worse they would go more currantly The Apostle sayth Christ is the Mediator of the new Testament that through death which was for the redemption of transgressions we might receiue the promise Heere death is auouched to be the redemption which is all one with satisfaction for sinne for wherewith we are redeemed therewith God is satisfied Christes bodily death meerely and alone you say without any thing else together therewith which is my intent is not heere mentioned You will not tell where your shoo wringeth Death was for the redemption or satisfaction for sin sayth the Scripture Now the death of Christes bodie or of his soule or of both must here be contained The death of Christes soule you dare not openly professe and therefore all this while you carrie it couertly vnder the sufferings of Christes soule But you must come plainly to it for these assertions of the Apostle Death was the redemption of our transgressions and we are reconciled to God by the death of his Sonne will make this to be the question as I first set it whether the death of Christes soule or the death of the damned which is the true paines of hell be a necessary part of Christs satisfaction and our Redemption Other sufferings of the Soule are meere shifts to harbor your folly if you striue in words or your impietie if you striue indeede for the death of Christs Soule as requisite by the Scriptures to our Saluation That Christ did not die the death of the Soule I doe not prooue there is no cause I should it is your assertion that he did and must be prooued by you which you be so farre from comming neere that you purposely
conceale it and onely skirre at it here and there in SOME KIND OF SENSE Otherwise you offer nothing as yet to the Reader but the proper sufferings of the soule which I trust are not alwaies priuation of grace and exclusion from blisse For so the faithfull should neuer haue any proper sufferings of the Soule or else vtterly loose both the spirit and fauour of God which they neuer doe The other Authoritie which I cite In the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt die the death is not so sound you thinke For am I sure that death here is but the bodyly death onely and no more I no where say that death threatned in these words was onely the death of the body it is one of your rash and rude illations it is none of my assertions I knew that God gaue this Commandement and threatned this punishment as well to Adams posteritie as to his person Otherwise had this prohibition beene made to Adam alone neither could the woman haue beene within the compasse of it who was not then created when this precept was inioyned neither could Adams of-spring haue tasted of death as well as Adam if this penaltie had stretched no farder then to Adams person But he being the roote and stocke of all mankind as he receaued blessings by his creation which should be common to all that descended of him so by his transgression he lost them as well from his Issue as from himselfe and subiected them to the same death and condemnation that he did him selfe when he rebelled against God his Creator Death we see executed on all the children of Adam and therefore we may not doubt but death was threatned to them all before it was inflicted on them Howbeit the commination in this place is like to Gods thâ—…eats in all other places against the transgâ—…ssours of his Law It denounceth what shall â—…e due vnto all but it bindeth not God that he shall not haue power to release or mitigate what and to whom pleaseth him In death then here threatned I containe all kinds of death corporall spirituall and eternall either as expressed in the generall name of death which is common to them all or as consequent ech to other and coherent if by Gods goodnes and mercies in Christ Iesus they be not seuered Saint Austen learnedly and truely teacheth the same When it is asked what death God threatned to the first men if they transgressed the Commandement giuen them whether the death of the body or of the soule or of the whole man or that which is called the second death we must answere ALI When therefore God said to the first man what day soeuer yee eate thereof yee shall die the death that threatning contained what soeuer death there is euen vnto the last which is called the second death and after which there is none other If any man stand more strictly on the time and kinde of death when and which Adam should die by this Commination Saint Austen hath an other answere In that which was said yee shall die the death because it was not said deaths if we vnderstand that onely death whereby the soule is forsaken of her life which to her is God for she was not forsaken that she might forsake but she did first forsake that she might after be forsaken though I say we vnderstand that God denounceth this death when he said what day yee eate thereof yee shall die the death as if God had said what day yee forsake me by disobedience I will forsake you by iustice Surely in that death were the rest denounced which without Question were to follow For euen in that a disobedient motion rose in the flesh of the Soule disobeying for which they couered their priuie parts one death was perceaued wherein God forsooke the Soule And when the Soule forsooke the body now corrupted with time and wasted with age an other death was found by experience which God mentioned to Man when punishing sinne he said earth thou art and to earth shalt thou returne that by these two deaths that first death of the whole man might be accomplished which the second death at last doth follow except man be deliuered by the grace of God By Saint Austens iudgement concording with the Scriptures God threatned all kinds of death to the transgressor the death of the Soule the same houre to take place that he disobeyed the rest to follow in their order as next the death of the body and at last eternall death of body and soule if the grace of God by Iesus Christ did not release and free man from it That the death of the Soule tooke present hold vpon the disobeyers the Scripture giueth testimony sufficient when it noteth their shame feare and flight of Gods presence who before sinne was their delight ioy and blisse The death of the body was a long time differred in Adam euen nine hundred and thirtie yeeres before it did separate his Soule from his Body but it began presently to worke and shew his force in either of their bodies The sentence of mortalitie God called Death saith Theodoret. For after Gods sentence Adam euerie day expected or feared Death Beda saith the like That which God said In what day soeuer thou shalt eate thereof thou shalt die the Death was as if he had said Morti deputatus eris thou shalt be deputed or adiudged to death not that he should that very day die but be mortall Chrysostom imbraceth the same opinion In what dâ—…y soeuer yee shall eate of the tree yee shall die the Death But Adam liued still how then died he By the sentence of God and the nature of the thing it selfe For he that maketh him selfe subiect to punishment is vnder punâ—…shment sinonre tamen sententia If not by deede and execution yet by guiltinesse and sentence pronounced So that if we will rightly conceiue Gods commination to Adam we must so take the words of God as threatning Adam and his posteritie with all kinds of death to which they all should bee subiect as guiltie thereof and deseruing the same though hee would keepe to himselfe the dispencing and moderating thereof not binding himselâ—…e thereby but the offenders as euery supreame Iudge doth on earth after sentence giuen and before execution finished Else if wee â—…e God who is trueth it selfe to the rigour and tenor of those words without reseruing power to him to dispose of Adam and Adams of-spring at his pleasure and in the words Thou shalt die the death comprise the execution of all sorts of death which can not be reuoked then we conclude Adam and all his issue without remedie or mercie vnder all sorts of death that is vnder spirituall corporall and eternal death which is not onely an vtter ouerthrow to all Christian â—…eligion promising saluation in Iesus Christ but a mecre madnesse against all mankind deuoting them without exception or mitigation to eternall
destruction of body and soule Wee must therefore know that God truely and iustly threatned Adam and in him all mankind to be guiltie of all soâ—…ts of death and to bee thereto subiected as to their due if they transgressed against him but this commination neither included execution of all sorts of death on all mankind nor excluded pardon where pleased God onely thence may rightly bee gathered fiâ—…st that all Adaâ—… of spring should bee condemned and subiected to the guilt of all as deseruing all the one no lesse then the other Secondly that some of Adams issue should effectuall feele the sting of all which God allotted to the reprobate Thirdly that euen the elect as well as the reprobate should beare in themselues the monuments of this transgression by the corruption dissolution of their nature though the one should in this life bee reformed by the working of Gods spirit in them and the other bee restored after this life by the Resurrection from the dead All these wee finde performed by God in the trueth of his iudgements and therefore we may be sure they were intended at the time of his threatning And consequently this collection is very true that God threating Adam with these words Thou shalt die the death purposed if Adam transgressed that none of his posteritie should escape the death of their bodies to which God foorthwith punishing sinne irreuocably subiected Adam and all his children as Gods owne words declare when he said to Adam and in him to all men Dust thou art and to dust shalt thou returne The iudges reuenge then for sinne which we deserued and to which we were iustly condemned was temporall eternall death of the body and soule heere and in hell But this was not executed on all because some were freed by the fauour of God in Iesus Christ though none excused from a corporall death which prooueth my position the truer that God neuer released sinne to any no not to his owne Sonne without some kind of death It must not be forgotten that here you renounce all satisfaction for sinne in respect of merite as from Christes soule vtterly If you meane I vtterly renounce all satisfaction for sinne as from the death of Christs soule I easily graunt it and would gladly heare what you can say against it because the soule of Christ as I beleeue could not die the death of spirits But if you conceiue that Christes soule had neither part sense nor merit in the death of his body by which satisfaction for sinne was fully made it is the weamishnesse of your wit to mistake so much and vnderstand so little I attributed all sense of paine as well in death as other wise to the soule of Christ and the death of his body I communicated to his soule by reason it is a separation of the soule from the body not thereby to bee depriued of sense or grace which Christes soule could not be but therein to feele the paine and sting which the death of the body brought with it I tolde you but the leafe before out of Austen that the paine which is called bodily belongeth rather to the soule and that the paine of the flesh is only the offending or afflicting the soule by the flesh Wherefore I made the soule of Christ to be the principall agent in all his meriting and patient in all his suffering and though the soule of Christ could not pay the satisfaction for our sinnes by her death because shee could not die yet that is no impediment but the soule of Christ might haue and had the chiefest paine sense and merit in the death of Christes bodie by which the whole person made full satisfaction for the sinnes of the world And this is so farre from renouncing all merit of satisfaction from the soule of Christ as you conceiue that it ascribeth the whole power and force thereof to the obedience and patience of Christes soule and maketh the bodie the instrument ordeined of God to conuey paine vnto the soule and to lie dead when the soule is departed from it As for Bernards words which I alledge if you did or could tell how they crosse mine I would take the paines to reconcile them now you say they sute not with mine but awake out of your wonted maze and you shall see that I giue the chiefe place and part in the meritorious sacrifice vnto the soule of Christ which you dreame I doe not as also that you neither like nor allow of Bernards words For he declaring the cause and maner why and how Christes minde was afflicted in his passion sayth it was with a double affection of most humane compassion on the one side for the vncomfortable griefe of the holy women on the other for the desperation and dispersion of his disciples These causes you reiect as fond and absurd and now you would seeme to ioyne with Bernards words But you must say of him as you doe of Ambrose and pray that mens authorities may be omitted in this case for all the Fathers of Christes church are vtter strangers or enemies to your new doctrine That nothing may satisfie for sinne but death is not sound the Scriptures doe shewe indeede that Christ should not satisfie without death but they denie not that there are other parts of Christs satisfaction which differ from his death as his bloodshedding his shame his reproches his apprehension his buffeting and besides that pouertie hunger and wearines These doubtlesse yea all other sufferings of Christ what soeuer small or great are satisfactorie and meritorious That all Christes actions and passions were meritorious with God I haue no doubt but that all his sufferings as well naturall as voluntarie did euery one small or great satisfie for sinne This is a speech of yours which except it be well qualified hath in it an whole heape of absurdities and contrarieties For if the least and the first thing that Christ suffered either naturally or voluntarily did satisfie for sinne superfluous were all the rest to our redemption when God was once satisfied And so by his birth or circumcision you graunt a Supersedeas to all his life and death as needelesse to our redemption Then the which what can be more repugnant to the word of God and faith of Christ and euen to your selfe who by this meanes make your hell paines of no importance to our saluation By satisfaction you meane not full satisfaction but that which any way tendeth to satisfaction or is requisite before satisfaction can be made It is easie and often with you to abuse words though you talke much of their proprietie What is Satis in Latine whence to satisfie commeth but enough and what is enough for sinne but after which more is not requisite If then Christ satisfied that is did or paide enough for sinne by the first of his sufferings then all that followed as I inferred were more then enough and consequently
superfluous That you will say is the proper and strict signification of the word satisfie but you take it more largely For the abuse of words I will not greatly striue so you build thereon no impieties howbeit when I say that nothing might satisfie for sinne but death I take satisfaction properly for the last and full payment after which no more was due for sinne and that apparantly by the Scriptures was the death of Christ before which the rest was not sufficient and after which no more was required by the righteous will and counsell of God So that although the obedience and patience of Christ all his life long did tend to satisfaction and made way for satisfaction as his hunger wearinesse pouertie and such like yet none of these did satisfie for sinne or acquite vs from sinne by the verdict of the holy Scripture but Christ after all these must yeeld himselfe to suffer that kind of death which the iustice of God should appoint and ordaine before we could be freed from our sinnes His blood you thinke did wash vs from all our sinnes Because his blood was shed for vs euen vnto death therefore his bloodshed expresseth the manner of his death as likewise his apprehension buffeting reproches and shame which the Scripture describeth in the order of his death and therefore compriseth vnder the name of his death For by Christes death as I haue often said the Scripture meaneth that kind of death in all respects and circumstances which the Euangelists in their writings report Who will grant in proper speech that those are his death The name of Christs death in the Scriptures containeth all those things which were coincident and concurrent to that death which Christ died for our sinnes according to the Scriptures Neither shall we neede your figure Synecdoche by a part of Christs sufferings to vnderstand all that he felt or suffered from his mothers wombe that is a loose deuise of yours to make any thing of euery thing and so to confound the Scriptures that no man shall knowe either what to beleeue or what to beware For where S. Iohn saith the blood of Christ doth clense vs from all our sinnes by your Synecdoche you imagine that the wine which he dranke at his last Supper the water wherewith he washed his disciples feete the teares which he shed for Lazarus death the iourney which he tooke to Galilee the sleepe which he fetched in the ship the hunger which he sustained in the wildernesse and what not should doe the like since euery thing that befell our Sauiour small or great did satisfie for sinnes as well as his death and passion What els is this but to mayme and mangle the Scriptures which name the blood of Christ to be the price of our redemption and his death the meane of our reconciliation if euerie thing that Christ did or endured shall be of the same force and weight to satisfie for sinne that his bloud and death were His bloud you will say is not his death The shedding of his bloud vnto death which the Scripture intendeth by his bloud is a plaine description of his death This is my bloud sayd he which is shed for many for the remission of sinnes And the rest which were appendants to his death expresse the maner of his death which the wisdome and iustice of God would haue to be full of violence iniurie reproch contempt shame and paine All which as they note the maner of his death so are they inclosed by the Scriptures in the name of his death and that I trust more properly being parts thereof than the naturall infirmities of his bodie as sleepe hunger and wearinesse or the voluntarie euents of his life as the rest of his actions and passions long before the houre came that he should be deliuered into the hands of sinfull men Why may not the proper sufferings of Christs Soule be as well admitted into the worke of Christs satisfaction although his SOVLE COVLD NOT PROPERLY DIE The sufferings of Christs Soule at the time of his death which the Scriptures mention we easily admit into the worke of his satisfaction for sinne but your satis-fiction of hell paines and of the death of Christs Soule we doe not admit because the holy Ghost so diligently describing the whole order and manner of Christs sufferings when he went to his death teacheth no such thing as you falsely collect from certaine words of his and chiefly from his bloody sweate whereof not knowing precisely the cause you surmise what best pleaseth your humor without all warrant of the word of God Prooue therefore by the Scriptures and not by your owne ghesses that Christs Soule suffered these things from the immediate hand of God which you suppose and we shall soone find a place for them in the worke of Christs satisfaction for sinne Till then giue me leaue to expound the Scriptures by themselues and not by your vnioynted and vntidie Commentaries confounding Christs life and death nature and will affections and punishments satisfaction and merits as if they were not different parts of our saluation to take our nature vpon him to worke all righteousnes in our names to suffer a shamefull and painfull death for our sinnes and to obtaine all spirituall and celestiall graces and comforts here and in heauen for vs. The first sinne committed by Adam and our continuall treading in his steps rest yet vndiscussed wherein we should not neede many words if you could or at least would rightly conceaue what is said and not ignorantly or purposely mistake and measure all things by your hastie humor To prooue that Christ must satisfie for sinne by the proper sufferings of his Soule and not with or by his body you brought this reason in your Treatise Whereby Adam first did and we euer since doe most properly commit sinne by the same the second Adam Christ hath made satisfaction for our sinnes But Adam first did and we euer since doe most properly commit sinne in our Soules our bodies being but the Instrument of the Soule and following the Soules direction and will Therefore Christ in his Soule most properly made satisfaction for vs In my Conclusion to your obiections I first denyed your Maior or former proposition For though the Soule of Adam as also our Soules quickly might and worthily did die for sinne and by sinne wherein they were the principall agents yet the Soule of Christ by no warrant of holy Scripture did or could die the death of Spirits and so could make no satisction for sin by her death Now by the Scriptures without death there was no satisfaction for sin and therefore the soule of Christ must satisfie for sinne by the death of her body not by any death proper to her selfe And so much the Scriptures auouch teaching vs that we haue redemption euen the remission of sinnes through his blood are reconciled to God
of Christ on the Crosse. Now the relatiue following QVOD enim must either be referred to all that went before and so not to malediction apart from the rest or to that which went next before which is the chasticement of our peace And so either way you were ouer bold with your Author to referre his words whether pleased you And farder answere to Ierom there needed none For to no proofe needed no answere And yet what better answere could you haue then for Ieroms meaning since his words are not generall to haue Ieroms conclusion in that very place brought you which best serueth to shew Ieroms intent Of Christs hanging on the Crosse Ierom speaketh noting that to be a cursed kinde of death out of the Apostle which I am farre from denying So doth he of digging Christs hands and feete out of the Psalme and of the rest of Christs wounds and stripes by which we were healed out of the Prophet whom hee expoundeth All which Christ suffered for vs being in deed due to vs for our sinnes Leaue out your falsifying of Ieroms words and sense that whatsoeuer curse was due to vs for our sinnes Christ suffered for vs and I see no cause why Ieroms words should neede any answere That this place of Esaie and the whole Doctrine which I auouch touching these fufferings of Christ may be the better receaued let vs note that the publike Doctrine appointed by Authoritie to be taught throughout England expresseth the same Namely Nowels Catechisme Since the Scriptures which plentifully and plainly teach vs the true price and meanes of our saluation giue no warrant of your new found Doctrine and the whole Armie of Auncient and learned Fathers who could ill instruct the people committed to their charge if they themselues were ignorant of the true meaning of their Creed and Catechisme neuer heard nor thought of your late deuised Redemption by Christs suffering the very paines of hell and the same which the damned doe suffer without any dispensation or Qualification for so it liketh you to speake if you could produce moe new writers of your mind then you doe or can they must pardon me for not admitting any Doctrine touching our Redemption but what I see grounded on the plaine euidence of the Sacred Scriptures and so receaued in the Church of Christ before our Age. I list not to deuise or approue a new Saluation vnknowen till our time and if any man be otherwise minded he shall goe alone for me God grant me to be a member of that Church which hath reuerently receaued and faithfully beleeued the simplicitie of the Scriptures touching our Redemption by the death and bloud of Christ Iesus Howbeit I see many men speake diuersly that meane nothing lesse then your late found hell inflicted by the immediat hand of God on the Soule of Christ. Where then you dreampt in your Treatise as you still doe in your Defence that whosoeuer named the wrath of God in Christs sufferings or called his Crosse a cursed kinde of death was wholy of your side I did in few lines reprooue that folly of yours and since you quoted no speciall words neither out of Master Nowels Catechisme nor out of the Bible appointed publikely to be read in the Churches of this Realme nor out of the Booke of Homilies that were worth the standing on there was no cause why I should wast time to hunt after your meaning If you would haue an answere it was meete you made your Arguments and pressed your Authorities as well as you could and then you should soone see what I said vnto them But as I then foretold so you now performe Your buzzing head no where findeth the wrath of God or horror of Iudgement against our sinne to be apprehended by Christ but you straightway conclude all your conceits from the first to the last These words when I reade them in any man offend not me as they helpe not you except you wrest them after your manner to hide vnder them your new found hell and the rest of your presumptuous and irreligious humours Begin with the Catechisme and see what choise you haue made thence There it is thus taught He payd and suffered the paine due to vs and by this meanes deliuerd vs from the same With Christ as our suretie God dealt as it were with extremitie of law Christ therefore suffered and in suffering ouercame death the paine appointed by the euerliuing God for mans offence What of all this What one worde is here sounding towards the death of the soule or the death of the damned after this life The Catechisme in the very same sentence expressely speaketh of the painefull and reprochfull death which the Iewes inflicted on Christ the manner whereof is orderly described in the next answere before These things sayth the Catechisme the Iewes did vnto him cruelly maliciously and wickedly but Christ willingly of his owne accord suffered ALL THOSE THINGS from the Iewes to appease with this most sweete sacrifice his father offended with mankinde vtque paenas nobis debitas dependeret persolueret atque nos ex illis hoc modo eximeret and to pay and satisfie the punishments due to vs thereby to exempt vs from them Cum Christo quasi sponsore pro nobis sic passo Deus summo quasiiure egit God dealt after a sort seuerely with Christ as with a surety suffering thus for vs but to vs whose sinnes deserued punishments and due paines transtulit in Christum hee transferred on Christ God shewed singular mercie and clemencie All this is plainely referred to the punishments and paines which Christ suffered at the hands of the Iewes by the secret counsell and appointment of God that thereby he might pacifie the wrath of his Father and deliuer vs from the shame paine and death due to our sinnes which God transferred and remoued from vs to Christ that he might suffer them and we be freed both here and hereafter for them Wherein great fauour and mercie were shewed to vs and Christ as it were a Suretie subiected for vs after a sort to the rigour of the Lawe What hurt is there in these wordes if you leaue haling and pulling them from their right sense The Authour of the Catechisme warily forbeareth the generall which you seeke after so greedily and when hee commeth to the places that might seeme harsh he qualifieth them with quasi as it were not meaning to presse those phrases as you doe to the vttermost Wherefore he saith that Christ was quasi sponsor a kinde of suretie suffering for vs and that God dealt with him Quasi summo iure as it were with riger in respect of the lenitie shewed to vs. Which speeches if you poyson them not with your bitter conceits I mislike not so long as they be stretched no further then to SIC passo pro nobis Christ THVS suffering for vs at the hands of the Iewes to which the writer of the Catechisme wisely
restraineth his wordes of Christs sufferings in that whole Section The death therefore which hee saith Christ suffered as the punishment appointed by God for haynous offences or for mans wickednesse and thereby conquered the deuill who had the rule of death was the cruell and shamefull death which the Iewes put Christ to on the Crosse which was the death that God either allotted to all men for sinne or prescribed specially for grieuous offences as an accursed kind of death euen in this life where Christ suffered though euerlasting death did ensue the wicked in the next world from which Christ was free Neither can the deuill be said to be the ruler of the second death if it be inflicted as you would haue it by the immediat hand of God except you make the deuill ruler and gouernour of Gods immediate hand which is notorious blasphemie It is there also written that Christs will was to suffer all extreamitie for vs who had deserued all extreamitie and all these things being taken vpon him hee destroyed them all You sliely slippe your Authors words in the question prefixed which is the cause of this answere and lighting on a Latine phrase which you scant vnderstand you pursue that to the pit of hell The question proposed in the Catechisme is this Since Christ had power in himselfe to choose what kind of death he would why would he rather be fastned to the Crosse then suffer any other kind of punishment The answere is Vltima omnia pati voluit pronobis quia vltima omnia eramus commeriti Christ would endure for vs in all things the vttermost which the Iewes could doe vnto him because in all things we had deserued the vttermost And that the phrase vltima omnia the vttermost in all things is referred to the Iewes to note the worst they could doe vnto Christ appeareth by that which is added as a reason of those words For the Crosse saith he was of all others a detested and abhorred kind of death which yet Christ would chiefly sustaine at the Iewes hands for vs that he might receiue on him the grieuous curse which our sinnes had fastned to vs and by this meanes deliuer vs from it All despightes all reproches and punishments offered him by the Iewes Christ counted light for our saluation and endured to be contemned and abiected by them as the basest or vilest of all men So that the Catechisme had no intent to say that Christ willingly would suffer the worst that God could doe vnto him that were defiance to Gods power and iustice which was fardest from Christs thought and must be from the Catechizers words except you will haue him blaspheme but in deede our Sauiour did submit himselfe to the worst and vttermost that men could doe vnto him which was the determinate counsell of God for the satisfaction of his iustice and redemption of our sinnes and therefore Christ made choise of the Crosse to yeeld vp his life that the Iewes might to the last breath loade him with all maner of despightes reproches and tortures which they by Satans instigation failed not to performe Leaue then your peruerting of other mens words and subuerting of their meanings and I see no one syllable yet cited by you out of the Catechisme that tendeth towards your new found hell or the death of the damned to be suffered in Christs soule But Christ you thinke could deliuer vs from no more then he suffered for vs. You might haue learned the contrarie to that out of the Catechisme where you are plainly taught that Christs corporall and temporall wrongs reproches and paines inflicted on him by the Iewes did quit vs from all spirituall euerlasting debts deaths feares and paines Christ in our name and place vndertooke to his Father to satisfie him for our sinnes and with the most sweete sacrifice of his obedience to appease his Fathers wrath conceaued against vs for our obstinacie and so to restore vs to fauour with God And therefore Christ the most innocent Lambe of God was bound with cordes to free vs who for our deserts were deliuered captiues to Satan sinne and damnation Christ who was vtterly without all fault was accused and condemned by the sentence of an earthly Iudge that he might absolue vs before the heauenly Tribunall who were euery way guiltie and most worthy of damnation Christ with his precious bloud shed for vs did wash and clense the spots and filthinesse of our sinnes Lastly Christ with the reproches which he sustained most vndeseruedly and with the most shamefull and most sharpe death which was inflicted on him deliuered vs from the punishment ignominie and death euerlasting which we had most iustly merited with our wicked offences and so all our sinnes were buried in obliuion and remooued farre from the sight of God by Christ. This doctrine if you could brooke you would not so much disable the sufferings of Christ at the hands of his persecutours as you doe not so hastily commit the soule of Christ to the paines of the damned from the immediate hand of God before you wil acknowledge our redemption to be perfect by the crosse and death of Christ but as your manner is you steppe by whole leaues that are against you and stumble at a word that happily may be wrested from his right sense and that you thinke is strong enough to beare the waight of all those absurdities if not impieties which you would reare Marke also what doctrine the Law of this Realme consonantly publisheth and commandeth in the homilies of Christs passion The first homily maketh Christes putting himselfe betweene Gods deserued wrath and our sinne the extreamest part of his passion You alleaged the Catechisme rather for your pleasure then any profit to your cause you do the like now with the booke of Homilies You cite but little thence and that to litle purpose That Christ put himselfe betweene Gods deserued wrath and our sinne to appeare the iust displeasure of God kindled against vs and to auert it from vs I knowe no man that maketh any doubt thereof and I maruaile to what ende you alleage it For what needed a Redeemer but to saue vs from the wrath of God prouoked by our wickednesse and armed with infinite power to take vengeance of mans vnrighteousnesse Or how could Christ be a Mediatour if he did not stand betweene vs and the dreadfull anger of God irritated by our iniquities to quench the same and to keepe vs from euerlasting destruction But the Homily you say maketh that the extreamest part of Christs passion which was a further feeling then the sense of bodily paine onely And therefore by the Homilie he felt Gods proper wrath spiritually which our sinne deserued You no sooner heare the name of Gods wrath but you run to your old bias and straightway pitch on your hell paines There are no such words in all that Homilie as that Christs putting him selfe betweene Gods wrath and our sinne was
the English Translation to be openly reade in the Church confirmeth not the Marginall appositions which may not be read in the Church though they may be receiued so farre as they haue manifest coherence with the Text or consequence from the Text in respect rather of their veritie then Authoritie For these notes at first were not affixed and in sundry editions they haue been altered increased as the Corrector liked euen this note which you alleage somewhat differeth from the Geneuian notes whence this and the most of the rest were taken The words of the Geneuian edition vpon this place are these The word Agonie signifieth that horror that Christ had conceaued not onely for feare of death but of his Fathers Iudgement and wrath against sinne The Printer of the great English Bible or his Corrector ouer against those words of the Text he was in an Agonie setteth this obseruation in the Margine He felt the horror of Gods wrath and iudgement against sinne I refuse not those words as if they gainsaid the Doctrine which I defend but I see no farder ground in them then ghesse when they ayme at the cause of Christs Agonie which the Scripture suppresseth Howbeit let the words stand in their full strength though by no meanes I acknowledge either Authentike or publike Authoritie in them they rather euert then support your opinion The vttermost here ascribed to Christ is HORROR that is a shaking or trembling feare of Gods Iudgement and wrath against sinne which all the godly finde in them selues when they enter into the serious cogitation of Gods holinesse displeased and his Iustice prouoked with their sinnes but this is farre from the death or paines of the damned except you make the vengeance of the Reprobate all one with the repentance of the faithfull This therefore is like the rest of your proofes no way tending to your purpose The feare of Gods wrath against sinne which is common to all the godly in this life though not at all times hath no fellowship with the feare of the Reprobate much lesse with the torments of the damned The one is a religious and godly sorrow for sinne which worketh saluation and yet agniseth with feare and trembling the iustnesse and greatnesse of Gods wrath against sinne the other is the beholding of the terrible and eternall destruction of Body and Soule prepared for them without all hope of ease or end In Christ there might be a double cause of this horror conceaued or felt by him as affections are felt in the Nature of Man the one touching vs the other touching himselfe Christ might tremble and shake at the terror of Gods Iudgement prouided for vs which was euerlasting damnation of Body and Soule in hell fire and the more tenderly he loued vs the greater was his horror to see this hang ouer our heads euen as we naturally tremble to see the desperate daungers of our dearest friends present before our eyes And if Paul said truely of him selfe we knowing the terror of the Lord meaning the terror of the Lords Iudgement against sinne how much more then did the Sauiour of the world know the same the cleare beholding of which might iustly worke in him a manifest horror to teach vs to take heede of that terrible Iudgement at the sight whereof for our sakes he did tremble in the daies of his flesh An other cause of that horror might concerne himselfe For since the wrath and Iudgement of God against our sinne was so terrible to behold that Christ in his humane nature trembled at it how could it but raise an horror in him to know that he must presently receiue in his owne Body the burthen thereof and make satisfaction therefore with his owne smart which how farre it would pearce his patience the weakenes of our flesh in him might well feare and tremble though his spirit were neuer so resolute and ready to endure the most that mans nature in this life could sustaine with obedience and confidence So that either the sight of Gods wrath against sinne due to vs or the satisfaction of the same which Christ was to make might vrge his humane nature to that feare and trembling for the time which these notes obserue and yet neither of these come neere the feare of the wicked or paines of the damned Besides that religious horror and feare is nothing lesse then the paines of hell inflicted on the Soule by the immediate hand of God which is the deuice that you seeke to establish Thus my Text of Scripture is also iustified that Christ gaue himselfe the price of Redemption for vs WHICH ELS VVE SHOVLD HAVE PAYD If wresting adding and altering may be called iustifying then is your sense of that text iustified indeed otherwise there is nothing yet alleadged that any way approueth that meaning of the text which you would inforce The price of our redemption Christ payd not the same which els we should haue payd had we not beene redeemed for so Christ must haue suffered euerlasting damnation of bodie and soule which was the payment exacted of vs but he payd a PRICE for vs that more contented his displeased Father than our euerlasting destruction could haue done You dallie therefore with the doubtfulnesse of the word PAYD which sometimes signifieth the enduring of punishment sometimes the yeelding of recompence The Price of our sinnes which we should haue payd that is the punishment of our sinnes which we should haue susteined was eternall destruction of bodie and soule in hell fire and other payment we could make none This payment due to vs or punishment which we should haue payd the person of Christ could not suffer it is most horrible blasphemy so to speake or thinke but he payd a price for vs that is a SATISFACTION and AMENDS for our sinnes which by no meanes we were able to pay And so much the word ANTILYTRON noteth euen a Price Recompence or Ransome in exchange of the punishment or imprisonment which the captiue should suffer This Price you will say was himselfe I make no doubt that Christ gaue himselfe to die but NOT TO BE DAMNED for our sinnes as we should haue beene Neither can the common custome of redeeming captiues inferre any more than the giuing of a price for the Prisoner And therefore I did iustly aske Who told you that the Scripture here speaketh after the common vse of redeeming Captiues taken in warre And where you answere the nature of the word ANTILYTRON importeth so much which is properly vsed in such cases you vndestand neither the nature of the word neither the maner of our redemption rightly For first the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 whence Antilytron commeth properly signifieth a mutuall redemption of ech other as Aristotle obserueth and so we should redeeme Christ as he redeemed vs. Wherefore the word is heere improperly taken and signifieth no more than LYTRON without composition Againe the common vse of
vpon all but against Idolaters blasphemers disobeyers of Parents Murderers Adulterers and such like to whom there were no Sacrifices prescribed but death awarded These two deaths then a Naturall by the hand of God on all men and a violent by the hands of the Magistrate on some certaine offenders haue difference enough a man would thinke so that when the one is proposed for you to runne to the other is a manifest faile in your answere and a flat confession that you can not prooue Christ was iustly hanged by the sentence of the Law And yet you mistake your selfe euen in that to which you flie for helpe For Christ was not subiect by Nature but onely by will to the death of the Body because he was cleere from actuall and originall sinne by which death first entred into the world and inuaded all men Now in the violent death which Christ receaued from publike Authoritie by the sentence of Pilate the Iudge perceaued aâ—…d not once nor twice pronounced him faultles and when he could not otherwise appease the rage of the People but by condemnâ—…ng Christ to death Pilate tooke Water and washed his hands before the Multitude saying I am innocent of the bloud of this Iust Man looke you to it With what face then can you being a Christian auouch that Christ was iustly hanged by the sentence of the Law when God so prouided that he which gaue the sentence should often and earnestly witnesse the Contrarie What say you then to Christes death did he die iustly if he died by the rule of Gods iustice then he died iustly I say the longer you reason the farder you straie from the Question and yet conclude nothing God hath a double rule of his punishing Iustice the one râ—…aled by which we must be gouerned the other reserued to himselfe which we must reuerence because it cannot be but iust in him though it be hid from vs. The sentence of the Law is the reuealed will of Gods reuenging Iustice by that I vtterly denie that Christ any way deserued to be hanged And thus much Saint Peter affirmeth when he saith Christ suffered the iust for the vniust that he might present vs to God If Christ by Gods reuealed will suffered iustly then Christ himselfe must be vniust But if he were iust euen when and as he suffered then were his sufferings vndeserued euen by the sentence of the Law which is the will of God prescribed vs that we must follow Otherwise who can suffer as Martyrs or innocents if we speake of Gods secret Iustice since he hath cause enough to deliuer all men for their due deserts to death when pleaseth him though he be graciously content that his seruants shall die most innocently in respect of his will reuealed that is not for any offence which their persuers can iustly chalenge and most gloriously when they giue testimonie to his trueth with their bloud who yet in his sight may not nor can not iustifie themselues This therefore is another leape of yours to start from the sentence of the Law to the secrets of Gods counsell and most vntruely and iniuriously to pronounce men that are sinners before God to be innocents in their deaths and Christ that was truely innocent before God and man to be iustly hanged by the sentence of the Law As you misse the Rule so doe you the Iustice of Gods will and that which you would make to be the curtaine of your cause I take to be the very puddle of your error For where you would insinuate that either Christ was iustly put to death or els God did vniustly deliuer him to death your ignorant abusing or aduised inuerting the name of Gods Iustice breadeth in you this sensible ouersight The Scriptures most truely confesse that God is iust in all his waies not in punishing onely mens offences but in giuing grace forgiuing sinne promising and performing life eternall and generally whatsoeuer he doth in him is iust and holie There is as great iustice that God should doe with his owne what he will as that he should repay men their deserts For if we ascribe no iustice to God but in rewarding our works then was he vniust in creating vs of nothing when we could deserue nothing then is he vniust in sauing vs when he condemneth others since we deserued no better then others Accursed be that mouth and minde which calleth or counteth the fauour and loue of God wherewith he embraceth his the grace and mercie which he affoordeth his the glorie and blisse which he will giue to his to be vniust Yet were none of these things deserued by vs though he be most iust in giuing what and where pleaseth him It is a righteous thing saith Paul to recompence rest to you which are troubled and yet no way deserued If we confesse our sinnes he is faithfull and iust sayth Iohn to forgine vs our sinnes We need not woonder at this how God is iust in punishing sinne and also iust in forgiuing sinne he vseth his right in the one as master of his owne and repaieth men their deserts in the other which is their due Since all the waâ—…es of â—…he Lord saith Austen are mercie and trueth neither can his grace be vnâ—… nor his Iustice be cruell Can we then finde how God is iust in giuing vs good things which we neuer meâ—…d and doe we stagger how he might be iust in deliuering Christ to corporall and externall paines and death which he neuer deserued It is no wrong you say for the Lâ—…w to lay the penaltie on the suertie Much lesse was it vniust with God to receauâ—… recompense for our sinnes at the hands of his owne Sonne who was willing and able to make it when we were not But he must be guiltie of our sinnes before he could be iustly punisâ—…d for our sinnes Who tolde you so Your similitude of a Suretie bound to see the debt discharged Keepe your bonds to hang abont your heeles A man may discharge anothers debts and beare anothers burden as well willingly and freely as vrged and arrested by the law What iustice hath mans law to accept the suretie for the debtour but the will of the offerer How much more then was it a righteous thing with God to accept a satisfaction for our sinnes at the hands of his owne Sonne not because he was thereto bound or any way guiltie with vs but only because he was able and willing to beare our burden when we were weake and rebate the rigour of Gods vengeance by the innocencie and dignitie of his person which was farre aboue our power For if amongst â—…en it be an honorable iustice for the stronger to helpe the weaker and the richer to relieue the poorer and the lesse we be bound as to our Enemies the more willing the more righteous who that hath but one spaâ—… of Christian sense will doubt whether it were most iust with God to
flesh by his owne power and was borne and suffered and died and rose againe Nulla sua necessitate sed voluntate potestaue By no necâ—…ssitie laid on him but of his owne will and power And so Hâ—…s humane infiâ—…mitatis affecâ—…us siâ—…t ipâ—…m carnem Infirmitatis humâ—…nae aâ—… mortem carnis humanâ—… Dominus Ieâ—…us non conditionis necessitate sed miâ—…ationis voluntate suscepâ—…t These affections of maâ—…s Infiâ—…mitie as alâ—…o the flesh of mans weâ—…kenesse and the death of mans flesh the Lord Iesus tooke vpon him not by any necesstie of Condition but by the good will of â—…is mercie As else where Ostendit Domiâ—…us voluntâ—…e se pati non necessitate Ergo quod pâ—…ssus est misericordia fuit The Lord sheweth that he sâ—…ffered by his owne will and by no neâ—…essitie It was therefore mercie that made him suffer â—…uery where Saint Austen is resolute that Christ suffered and died when he would as he would and because he woulâ—… Athâ—…asius Christ seeing the goodnesse of his Fâ—…ther and his owne suffciencie and poâ—…er 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 was moueâ—… with â—…ue towards man and pittiyng our infirmitie he put on the same and hauing Comâ—…assion on our mortalitie he clothed himselfe therewith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and willingly tooke vp the Crosse to himâ—…e and â—…ent to his death vncompelled Chrysostome Seiâ—…sum tradidit vt indicet quod voluntaâ—… pâ—…ssionem suscepit non necessitate neque vt sed volens spenté Christ gaue himselâ—…e to shew that he vndertooke his Passion wilâ—…ngly and not by any necâ—…ssitie or exaction but of his owne will and accord Passus est quia voluit resurrexit quia potuit Christ suffered because he would and rose because he could And so By his deeds Christ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 â—…hat â—…e wâ—…nt to hiâ—… Pâ—…ssion by no force nor necessitie but of his owne accord Ambrâ—…e 〈◊〉 â—…as no â—…eruant to death but free among the dead For he was free that had poweâ—… 〈◊〉 death By the power of his Duâ—…nitie â—…e laid downe his Soule and tooke 〈◊〉 Tâ—…ou secâ—… his goodnâ—…sse in that he laid it downe of his owne accord thou seest his power in that â—…e toâ—…ke it againe At the â—…ime when pleaâ—…ed him the Lord Iesus emptied himselâ—…e â—…nd 〈◊〉 suffered when he would Ierom. â—… Death came not vpon Christ but Christ camâ—… 〈◊〉 â—…or Death in him found no way for his power â—… He was no Debtor to Death and sinne bâ—…t he was offered because he himâ—…elfe would For he â—…ustained not tbe Crosse by any neâ—…essitie but willingly otherwise if he hâ—…d not beene offâ—…red by his owne good will he migâ—…t hâ—…ue deâ—…lined thoâ—…e that were sent to take him whom he met without feare and of his oâ—…ne accord offâ—…red himâ—…elfe to them Gregoâ—…ie In carne veniâ—…ns Dominus non culpam nostrâ—…m ex vitio non poenam ex necessitâ—…te 〈◊〉 nulla enim labe peccati pollutus reatus nostriteneri conditione non potuit atque idâ—…o mâ—…rtem nostraÌ„ omni necessitate câ—…lcata cum voluit spâ—…nte suscepit The Lord commiâ—…g in flesh neitâ—…er tooke on â—…im our fault by any infection nor our punishment by any coactiâ—…n for being â—…filed with no stâ—…ine of sinne he could not be held by any condition of our guiltiâ—… 〈◊〉 and thereâ—…ore â—…reading all necessitie vnâ—…er his feete of his owne accord when he would â—…e admitted oâ—…r dâ—…ath â—… Nos omnes cum nolumus morimur quia ad soluâ—…ndae penae debitum 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 conditione coarcâ—…armur Ille autem quia nulli admixtus est culpae nulli ex necâ—…e 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Sed quia culpam nâ—…stram dominando subdidit poenam nostram miâ—…ando suscepit We all die against our wils because we are tied by the condition of our sinne to the debt of â—…nduring punishment But he that was entangled with no fault could not be bâ—…und to any peâ—…ltie by necâ—…ssitie Yet because he subdued our sinne by raigning ouer it in 〈◊〉 and pitiâ—… to vs he vndertooke our pâ—…nishment as he himselfe saith I haue power to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 my 〈◊〉 no man taketh it from me but I lay it downe of my selfe Beda Iesus hungred it 〈◊〉 true but because he would He slept it is true but because he would He sorrowed it is true but because he would He died it is true but because he would It was in his power to be so or so affected or not These affections of mans infirmitie Non conditione necessitatis sed voluntate miserationis suscepit siâ—…ut carnem ipsam etiam mortem Christ tooke vnto him not by any bâ—…nd of necessitie but by the good pleasure of his mercie as he did flesh and death it selfe Wherefore his death was truely free not forced because he had power to lay downe his soule and take it againe He that dieth of necessitie can not rise of himselfe Christ then who wanted all fault was not tied to the necessitie of death Therefore Christes death was voluntarie not necessarie and so he might rise of himselfe Damascene Naturall things affections and passions in Christ did not preuent his will there was nothing forced in Christ but all voluntarie At his owne will he hungred at his owne will he thirsted at his owne will he feared at his owne will he died Bernard Not onely Christ was willing and was offered but he was offered because he was willing Christ being equal with God emptied himselfe by taking the forme of a seruant and being rich became poore for vs and of great was made little of high low of strong weake and hungred and thirsted and was wearied in his iourney and the rest which he suffered of his owne accord and not by any necessitie He was voluntarily incarnate he voluntarily suffered and was voluntarily crucified For had he not died voluntarily that death had not beene meritorious How much more vnwoorthely he died who deserued not death so much the more iustly man liueth for whom he died What iustice thou wilt aske is this that an innocent should die for a malefacâ—…our NON EST IVSTITIA SED MISERICORDIA Si iustitia esset iam non gratis sed ex debito moreretur It is no iustice it is mercie If it were iustice then should he not die freâ—…ly but endebted thereto and if endebted then he indeed should die but the other for whom he died should not liue Yet though it be not iustice it is not against iustice otherwise he could not be both iust and mercifull The verie Catechisme on which you seeme so much to stand diligently teacheth and vrgeth the same doctrine howsoeuer you be slipt to some Scâ—…ueners shoppe to draw Indentures to binde Christ to the penaltie of the Law as your Suertie Laquet ipsum debit as hominum sceleri sibi indebit as paenas sua voluntate inse suscepisse subijsse nostrorum
submission and Sacrifice as a sufficient recompence and Satisfaction for the sinnes of the world Againe he certainly knew that Gods displeasure against our sin in loue would not in Iustice could not extend to the dissolution râ—…iection or dâ—…struction of his Person but that God would temper the punishment of our sinnes in his Body where he bare them that neither his obedience nor patience should be wearâ—…ed or ouerwhelmed And to that ende the Scripture plainly testifieth that Iesus i Iohn 13. knew the Father had giuen all things into his hands and so whatsoeuer Christ suffered was a triall of his obedience to which he most willingly submitted himselfe that neither the burden of our sinnâ—…s might seeme a sport to him nor his case common to him with the desperate and damned persons Christ then neither did nor could apprehend or discerne any wrath of God kindled against his person as the reprobate feare and the damned find neither any purpose in God to punish sinne farther than by the death of his bodie to purge it and abolish it nor the measure of paine determined to be sharper then his humane patience could without repining or refusing endure Wherefore though I willingly grant as much paine in Christes sufferings as his patience could sustaine without declining or disobeying yet see I no point wherein the sufferings of Christ either apprehended or inflicted did concord with the paines of the damned As for the terrour of Gods anger against sinne which wrought in Christ submission not confusion and sorow for sinne conceiued for that God was thereby iustly displeased these and all such religious FEARES sorowes tremblings I easily yeeld to the soule of Christ which were sacrifices in Gods sight of inestimable price and very painfull though very faithfull submissions and passions of the inward man The farther proofe of these I referre to the place where I shall speake of Christes agonie and in the meane time assure the Châ—…istian Reader that neither this Praâ—…er nor all his compartners shall euer be able by the sacred Scriptures to make any proofe of any farther or other sufferings then I haue specified Whether the paines of bodie or soule in Christ were greater or sharper I take it to be a needlâ—…sse and fruitlesse question The paines of Christes body were proportioned The paines aâ—… well of Christes sâ—…ule as of his bodie were equall to the strength of Chrâ—…stes patience to the strength of his patience and so were his feares and sorowes and in either the soule was the part that felt the smart and discerned the cause And if we balance these things by the consequents of nature since the paines from the body doe in this life by their vehemency separate soule and body farre sooner and oftner then sorowes and feares of minde except in present and ouerwhelming euils which coole quench and ouerthrow the spirits with more speed though with lesse paines then the sharpnesse of Christes bodily paines hauing no release nor ease but perfect sense and continuance did pinch as neere not as the paines of the damned but as the passions or affections of Christes soule hauing fath and hope to support them and comfort and ioy proposed to mitigate them And euen in the damned both men and diuâ—…ls whence you would seeme to fetch your president for Christes sufferings whether thinke you are the sharper the paines which they now feele before the day of iudgement or the violence of fire which shall then exceed all the paines they now suffer For both the diuels and the damned haue as much griefe of reiection confusion and desperation and as mighty terrors and inward torments of minde as they are capable of and yet neither of them haue their sharpest punishments Of the diuels the Scriptures say k Iude epist. vers 6. They are reserued in euerlasting chaines vnder darkenesse vnto the iudgement of the great day And the spirits themselues could say to Christ l Maâ—…th 8. Art thou come to torment vs before the time Of the wicked Peter sayth m 2. Pet 2. God knoweth how to reserue the vnâ—…ust vnto the day of iudgement to be punished And n Rom. 2. thou sayth Paul to euery one of them according to thine hardnesse and impenitent heart heapest vp wrath to thy selfe against the day of wrath and reuelation of the iust iudgement of God By which it is plaine that the terrors and torments of minde presently felt by the deuill and the damned are farre lesse then the vengeance of externall and eternall fire reserued and then augmented on all the reprobate both men and angels o Defenc. pag. â—…0 li. 4. The greatest paines are no more sinne then the least Therefore by your owne graunt Christ might and did feele and endure the grâ—…atest sorrowes of the minde and soule as well as the lâ—…sser in the bodie Paines if they be onely paines and nothing els are not sinne and therefore the suffering of hell fire is no sinne but the terriblest punishment of sinne that men or angels shall feele yet terrours and torments of minde are increased by doubt feare or despaire of Gods goodnesse towards vs which are sinnes in this life where grace and mercie are proposed and could not be in Christ without intolerable infidelitie after so plaine and plentifull assurances of Gods loue and fauour towards him Take therefore from Christ all doubt and distrust of Gods anger and displeasure towards his person and then it is euident that neither his apprehension of Gods wrath was the same that the damned and desperate feele noâ—… any way so sharpe as if Christ had conceiued God to be displeased with him or purposed to destroy him as the wicked are perswaded of Gods indignation against themselues Christes sufferings then were wrath to the sense and feeling of mans nature but his Christs Faith did not faile in the sharpest of his paineâ—… faith in the sharpest of his paines beheld the setled and assured loue of God towards his person and he not only called God his Father in all his afflictions but out of his owne power he gaue the thiefe that confessed him on the crosse the inheritance of Gods kingdome that present day together with himselfe So that he was more then perswaded or resolued of Gods fauour and faithfulnesse who tooke vpon him in the midst of his sufferings to giue the kingdome of heauen to such as acknowledged and beleeued in him though the chastisement of our sinnes in his body and soule were by Gods iustice and his owne consent very sharpe and bitter vnto him that his loue to vs and obedience to his Father might appeare the more fully not in peace ease and dalliance but in sorrow paine and grieuance by which ardent and constant loue is tried as golde in the fire Whereby it appeareth that all your talke of Gods wrath against Christ equall with the damned or reprobate hath no trueth nor sense in it but is a meere and
and quietly then they were able Doth any man besides you say that Christ was impatient in his Agonie but that as he was fully able to restraine all violence and vehemence of affection in himselfe when he would so was he likewise able to shew the inward touch and motion of mercie towards that people by what signes he would and by farre greater then Moses and Paul were able and yet without all distemper or impatience as you interpret his Agonie to be s Ibid. li. 34. Also Christ knew exactly Gods counsell and purpose for their reiection which those holy men were not so particularly sure of Wherefore Christ might better stay the vehemencie and breaking out of this affection which in such a case must needes tend against the knowen will of God Moses and Paul were sure enough of that which they were sorie for though the euidence of their knowledge was not comparable to Christs in any thing And I pray you what letteth but the clearer Christs knowledge was of the horrible vengeance of God that should light on the Iewes for their wicked despising and murdering of him the greater might his sorrow be for them so long as he sorowed not that God would be righteous but that they would be both impious in the fact and incredulous in the Gospell of repentance and so prouoke the Iustice of God to that extreame reuenge Neither is that any way to impugne Gods knowen will to be sorie that men will be so mad as to heape vp vengeance on their owne heads God rather alloweth that affection in vs here on earth where we are not compassed or confirmed with glorie as our Sauiour then was not with his that as t Lament 3. he doth not punish with his hart or willingly so we should not wish or before hand reioyce at the destruction of our enemies whom we should loue and for whom we should pray euen when they persecute vs as he taught vs by his owne example in praying u Luke 22. Father forgiue them they know not what they doe and inspired Steuen with the same minde to say at the time when they stoned him x Acts. 7. Lord lay not this sinne to their charge So that your exceptions are rather preiudiciall to your owne positions then to mine which are no way weakned with these pretences but rather strengthned y Defenc pag. 95. li. 16. Christs expresse compassion towards the Iewes Luk. 19. Matth. 24. a litle before he prepared him to his passion plainly sheweth that now in the Garden and so still forward he gaue him selfe wholy to other thoughts and matters namely such as concerned his great worke in hand Out of your learning you allow Christs compassion towards the walles and buildings of the temple and the stones of the cittie for he sheweth in both places which you cite that a z Matth. 24. 2. a Luc. 19 44. stone shall not be left vppon a stone either in the z Matth. 24. 2. Temple or a Luc. 19 44. Citty which concerned the Iewes temporall state and safety but touching the reiection of that whole nation for these fifteene hundred yeares as we find to this day from Christ sorrowed that his death should be the ruine of the Iewes the knowledge and grace of God whereby their soules might be saued which Christ most clearely foresaw would befall them for their putting him to death so barbarously tumultuously and contemptuously that in the higth of your skill you count not a matter worthy Christs cogitation or compassion Such chipps you hew to helpe vp the building of your new made hell that the Sauiour of the world vpon your word must be mindfull of the walles and houses in which the Iewes dwelt and forgetfull of their Saluation of whom and for whom he was borne and to whom he was first sent if they would haue receaued him as if the sonne of God knew not how to proportion his sorow for them according to the dangers that were imminent ouer them But in all wise mens eies if he so much pittied the ruine of their citie and desolation of their Land that he wept for it what sorow and griefe shall we think he inwardly tooke to see the perpetuall destruction of so many thousands and all their posterities so many hundred yeares through their owne madnes in thirsting for his bloud and why should this be excluded from the greate worke of mans Redemption which he had then in hand when he was in his agonie since not only the future paines were foreseene by him but all things incident and consequent were plainly to him foreknowen Amongst which was the vtter abandoning of Gods former people for their infidelitie to the doctrine and for their crueltie to the person of their and our Lord and Sauiour b Defenc. pag. 95. li. 7. A litle before when he throughly intended and expressed his affection touching that matter yet thereby he fell into no such agonie but onelie wept and mourned for them Christ knew his times and places for all his affections and actions farre better then such a guest as you are could direct him His affections before men he did moderate with all sobrietie and grauitie they neuer saw in his face nor heard from his mouth an vndecent gesture or speech For his vehement and most feruent affections which yet proceeded from no kind of impatience nor distemper of mind as you imagine but from the fire and flame of his most sacred humilitie and zeale to God and loue and pietie to man he chose the time neerest his passion and the place secret not only from others but euen from his owne Disciples Had the people openly seene him in these feares praiers and sweats they would haue iudged him either c Mar. 3. v. 21. madd or d Iohn 7. possessed with a diuell as they did when no signes of a troubled mind appeared Christ therefore in his heauenly wisedome would haue no witnesses of his most feruent affections as it seemeth by the course of the Scriptures but God and his elect Angels in somuch that he willed the rest of his disciples to sitt where he appointed them and tooke Peter Iames and Iohn that had seen his glorie in the mountaine and went on-ward with them to his purposed place but left them a stones cast of when he went to his passionate praiers where for the darknesse of the night they could distinguish nothing besides their incredible heauinesse to sleepe whiles their master was in his greatest agonie which prooueth they neither heard nor saw what befell him How childishly then do you reason Christ when he spake of the destruction of the citie fell not into an agonie before the people therefore the griefe of their reiection could be no part of the sorow which he assumed in the Garden As this is most friuolous so the rest is most captious For what if his sorow for the Iewes were not the cause
disputation that manie here vndertake whether this wish were lawfull or vnlawfull If Paul refâ—…ained thus to wish because it was neither lawfull nor possible actually to obtaine it how senselesse and truethlesse are your foure obseruations grounded vpon the possibilitie and pietie of this wish whereas all men of any iudgement or vnderstanding conclude the cleane contrarie but such is your cariage that except you may crosse the resolutions of all men you thinke your selfe no bodie Be famous therefore in your follie that bring impossibilities and impieties for the chiefe foundation of your late sprung faith your Reader I trust will require some better proofe before he giue you allowance in matters of such moment as these be m Defenc. pag. 97. li. 1. Thirdly that extraordinarily there is greater loue among meere men then only to die bodily one for another though vsually and ordinarily a greater cannot be found among men which is it that Christ meaneth but how much more then may the loue of Christ toward his elect be farre greater contrarie to your assertion pag 107. 108. Your doctrine is all extraordinarie The Defendâ—…r sayth the Scriptures â—…re ordinarily true that is sometimes false that no ordinarie rules of the Scriptures can stand with it Howbeit in this you chalenge Christ and not mee who saith n Iohn 15. No man hath greater loue then to lay downe his life for his friend That is ordinarily true you say but extraordinarily false Then extraordinarily by your supposition Christ sometimes speaketh an vntrueth though it be not ordinarie with him so to doe which honor you yeeld to the rest of the Scriptures For when you can not otherwise auoid them those you answeare are the o Defenc. pag. 96. li. 32. ordinarie and common rules of the Scripture But your doctrine consisteth of extraordinarie Rules which are no where found but in your owne braine You haue heard Chrysostome Photius and Zanchius auouch who are the chiefe commenders of the exposition which you would seeme to follow that Paul neither did nor might preferre the loue of his Countriemen before his owne saluation and communion with Christ but that his principall respect in this wish was his loue to the glorie of Christ which he more esteemed then his owne soule So that nothing did hinder Paul to preferre Gods glory before the safety of his owne soule and yet Christes rule to stand true that no man hath greater loue then to lay downe his life for his friend Neither was it the death of the Soule that Paul wished since he would by no meanes as these old and new writers obserue be seuered from the loue and fauour of Christ but from the ioy and honour that is laid vp for the saints of God Peter Martyr is of the same opinion with them p Pet. Martyr in ca. 9. epist. ad Romanos Neither doth Paul in this place say he wished to be separated from the loue of God nullo enim modo voluisset ab illo amando desistere for by no meanes would Paul haue ceased from louing God only he wisheth to be excluded from the blessednesse and fruition of God And this euerie one of vs ought to be willing vnto euen lesse to regard his owne eternall happinesse then the glorie of God Now he that still loueth god and is beloued of him by no meanes can suffer the death or curse of the soule mentioned in the Scriptures q 1. Cor. 16. if any man loue not the Lord Iesus Christ let him be Anathema maranAtha that is accursed in the highest degree then could not the same curse befall him that loued Christ dearer then his owne soule but the words of our Sauiour must needes be verified in him r Maâ—…th 10. he that looseth his soule for my sake shall find or saue it So that neither of your suppositions are true either that Paul preferred the loue of men before the safety of his owne soule or that for their sakes he was content to die the death of the soule mentioned in the Scriptures which is a separation as well from the loue and trueth of God as from the glorie and felicitie of God And your comparison for which you intend all this and wherewith you would crosse my assertion is most vntrue that Christes loue to his elect led him to die the death of the soule or to forgoe the fauour and fellowship of God for their sakes For the coniunction of Christs manhoode to his Godhead being personall was farre greater and nearer then the knitting of Paul or Moses vnto God and if that vnion were broken all the workes and sufferings of Christs manhoode were no way able to bring vs to God Christ could not be content to be separated from God for vs. Wherefore it were a thing extreamly impious in the manhood of Christ and no lesse dangerous to our saluation for him to be content to be vtterly seuered from the vnion and communion of the diuine nature with which he was personally ioined and though your imagination of Moses and Paul be false enough and altogether impossible yet to dreame the like of Christ is the higth of all impietie Neither doth that diminish his loue to vs since there was no need thereof for vs his other suffrings being sufficient in the iust and exact iudgement of God and the loue that led the second person in Trinitie to lay aside for the time the full and perfect fruition of his glorie and equalitie with God his Father and in our flesh to emptie and humble himselfe not only to the infirmities of our nature and miseries of our life but euen to the shame and paine of our death on the Crosse farre exceeded all the loues that men or Angels could shew vnto vs. For there is more distance betweene the glorie and Maiesty of God and the sense and shame of our miserie and mortality then betwixt the saluation or damnation of men or Angels Wherefore Christs loue to vs may not be diminished or made inferiour to the loue of creatures though he were not damned for our sakes since that ineuitablely and irreuocablely would haue fastned vs to a greater condemnation and no way saued vs whereas now his vnspeakable fellowship with God hath recalled vs all from the damnation due to vs to be partakers of the loue and grace that eternally and infinitely he possessed with God s Defenc. pag. 97. li. 6. Fourthly we see here these holy men without feeling any paines inflicted by Gods wrath but only through an earnest and mighty compassion of loue had their minds drawen so wholy to thinke on this speciall thing aboue their reach that during the time they turne not themselues to any other cogitation t li. 17. This you acknowledge may be in men and yet you will not scoffe at them as cast into a Traunce by it nor reproche them with infernall confusion How much lesse ought you so to deale with Christ.
without measure holy yet now at his death did not so expresly breake out and shew themselues as they did at diuers times before You receaue a iust reward of your error that whiles you labour to impugne the trueth your lucke is not to light on one true sentence to your purpose That extreame feare and sorrow were at all houres and seasons in him which yet were holy and righteous affections in Christ is a notable vntrueth and that they did not breake out so expresly in the garden as at diuers times before is another as false as the former and but that it is no newes in you to fasten on fancies a man would maruell to see so many falshoods couched so closely together Christes quiet and constant affections of pietie to God and mercy to men were alwaies in him but these were not at all houres and seasons painfull vnto him comming now to make What feare and sorrow Christ was to yeelâ—… to God when â—…e offered the ransome of our sinnes satisfaction for our sinnes as the head for the members and the Redeemer for his prisoners Christ was to yeeld vnto God as much feare of his iustice prouoked and sorrow for his holinesse displeased by our sinnes as his humane nature could admit without losse of those gifts or decay of those graces which the fulnesse of the holie Ghost had rooted and established in him Wherefore damnation and desperation excepted and all dubitation excluded as well of his person as of his function hee might yeeld to God for vs and as part of our ransome the lowest degree of submission and deepest impression of feare and sorrow that mans nature could feele without doubting or distrusting the fauour and goodnesse of God towards him or his Wherein he did not onely religiously giue vnto God that which was due vnto the holinesse and Iustice of God but he set vs a patterne how we should approch to God when we finde our selues loaden with sinne euen in all feare and trembling of so great power and maiestie and with inward griefe and groanes of heart for displeasing so admirable holinesse that we may receaue comfort from God when we doe not spare truely to acknowledge his goodnesse and earnestly to lament our owne wickednesse These verie painefull but yet very holy impressions of feare and sorrow with teares and sighes vnspeakeable Christ shewed and sanctified in his owne person as an acceptable sacrifice to God not for any blemish of his owne who was the cleane and vndefiled lambe of God but for our haynous and enormous sinnes the excesse whereof could neuer be matched or purged but by the infinite dignitie and humilitie of him that owing nothing paid all and forced to none of these freely offered his obedience to the honour and glorie of his father n Defenc. pâ—…g 98. li. 21. It standeth not with his piâ—…tie to wish that his strong and vehement affections of holinesse should passe from him or be weakned in him for my part I can see no sense nor sappe in these assertions You see sense and sappe in that which hath neither trueth proofe nor vse in the word of God and in the plaine principles of pietie so vnsauerie is your palate you finde no taste Those words Let this cuppe passe from me most men referre to the death of the crosse which Christ was after to suffer Will you thence inferre that the feare and sorrow which he felt in the garden before his apprehension were not grieuous because they were religious And what if Christ spake of the present impressions of feare and sorrow which he wished to be mitigated with comfort from God as they were within a while by the sending of an Angell from heauen did he therefore wish the holinesse of his obedience and humilitie to be changed because he praied the burden thereof might be eased o Psal. 51. Restore to me saith Dauid the ioy of thy saluation Doth that prooue Dauid praied against the godlinesse of sorrow for sinne because he would haue the sharpenesse of it turned into ioy no more is it consequent when Christ weakened himselfe with exceeding susception of feare and sorrow though both religious that he wished the holinesse of either might cease when he would haue the painefulnesse of either asâ—…waged A damned or desperate feare and sorrow you would better digest in the soule of Christ though Christian pietie doe detest it but a vehement affection of godly feare or sorrow you endure not because it hath no concurrence with your hell paines p Defenc. pag. 98. li. 24. Where you ascribe to this his deepe sorrow of zeale for mens sinnes his sweating bloud in his agonie aboue Nature after a strange and maruelous manner I dare say you deliuer strange maruailes in Diuinitie Christ sweating bloud if it were naturall I doe not ascribe to feare or sorrow but rather to vehement intention of prayer which the Euangelist mentioneth in that place if it were aboue nature as q 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 28 29. Hilarie Augustine Prosper Bede and Bernard doe thinke there can be no reason required of his voluntarie affections besides his will the cause whereof is secret to vs though some ancient writers coniecture at the significations of it But why it should not be maruelous haue you any reason for admit your owne conceite were true which as yet is no way iustifiable by the sacred Scriptures euer read you there that any man before or besides Christ had sweate like droppes of bloud falling from him for all their complaints Christs 〈◊〉 sweatâ—… was not onely 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 proper to Christ. as you pretend of hellish feare sorrowes and paines It must then be maruelous which no man else but onely Christ did euer performe whatsoeuer the cause thereof were and in your fansie most maruelous since you dreame that all the members of Christ suffer the like paines as due to mankind for sin and yet you can produce none of them that euer did sweate bloud but Christ alone And where you make the paines of hell to take hold of Christs Soule till the time of his death yet did he not after this shew any such thing but onely in the Garden How could it then be but maruelous that so violent a cause continuing and increasing as you imagine the effect which in your fansie was this bloudie sweate should cease and not appeare but when Christ would but whether of vs deliuereth strangest maruailes in Diuinitie you that hold the death of the damned and the true paines of hell were here inflicted on Christs Soule by Gods immediate hand and must likewise by your supposall on all Christes members or I that teach Christ as our head in the worke of our redemption for the satisfaction of our sin offered as much sacred feare of Gods power and inward sorrow for our displeasing the holinesse of God as mans nature without despairing or doubting was capable of let all the faithfull iudge and examine
nemo anxietatem euasit nemo egrediente anima sine amaritudine expirauit This griefe nâ—… man hath euer escaped nor any euer breathed out his soule without bitternesse And Martyrs no doubt doe or should priuately in their prayers to God see the sharpenesse of death in respect of their strength and confesse the iustnesse of this punishment layed on all men for sinne and so with all religious feare and most earnest prayer to God for his assistance and defence against the terrour of death approch their endes though the cause for which they die should comfort them and make them cheerefull in the eyes of all their aduersaries when they haue first giuen God his due and reposed themselues on his heauenly protection Euen so did Christ teach vs by his example who to his Father in the Garden confessed the naturall horror of death which he would feele and felt for our sakes and after to his persecutours shewed no such thing but readily met them willingly offered himselfe to them and patiently endured whatsoeuer paine they heaped on him c Cyprianus de Passione Domini Latens in humanitate omnipotentiate Discipulis pauidum coram per secutoribus terribilem exhibebat Omnipotencie couered in mans nature shoâ—…ed thee fearefull to thy Disciples and terrible to thy persecutours sayth Cyprian of Christ. When Christ was carried bound to the President hee was not suppliant to the Sergeants yea he despised he greatnesse of Herod and Pilate de impietate malitia suauitas pietasque Christi triumphat and the mildnesse and godlinesse of Christ triumphed ouer the malice and wickednesse of his persecuters d Defenc. pag. 102. li 26. You answere if death be not fearefull to the seruants of Christ they are the more bound to their Lord and Master who was the first that by death disarmed death and seuered death and hell What is this to our reason Enough and more than enough if your captious head would conceiue it right For Christ tooke from death all destroying power ouer the Elect and from them all amazed and confounding feare which others finde in death and so not only by his example taught them to resort to God with prayer for comfort against the terrour of death but by his agonie enabled them to goe securely and quietly to their deaths notwithstanding the horror thereof since he will helpe them in the midst of that miserie and receiue them with glorie when others thinke them swallowed vp with death e Defenc. pag. 103. li. 10. By breaking the knot betwixt death hell he could not be so wofully affected afflicted aboue measure as he was if he did not suffer by them somwhat extraordinarily Vnto Christ might feele somewhat extraordinary yet not the pains of hell this you haue nothing to answer Are the pains of hell the death of the damned come now to SOMEWHAT EXTRAORDINARIE Heere may the Reader see the verie depth of all your new doctrine It was SOMEWHAT that Christ SVFFERED or FEARED in the Garden ergo it was the second death and the pains of the damned All your idle and erroneous illations and amplifications of martyrs and malefactors end now in SOMEWHAT if you could tell what and because you knowe not what it was you will imagine what you list I doe not doubt but it was somewhat extraordinarie that mooued Christ to this feare sorow and intentiue Prayer after comfort receaued from heauen by an Angell although I dare not determine what it was which the Scriptures doe not expresse much lesse presume it to be the second death as you doe against the Scriptures or frame a new hell of the damned for Christes soule to pay our ransome thereby to crosse the whole course of the word of God teaching and assuring vs the bloud of Christ was the price of our Redemption I see many things extraordinarie or rather nothing wholy ordinarie in the son of God specially at the time of our redemption which he alone for the innocencie and excellency of his person and power could and did throughly performe Yea euen in his agonie though some thinges might be common to him with man yet none of those thinges could be sustained by any man as they were by him And therefore your somwhat betraieth your presumption when thence you inferre what you best like because the Scripture hath not acquainted you with euery secret affection or action that was required in mans saluation g Defenc. pag. 103. li 22. It was not therefore that only but some other death farre more dreadfull and intolerable which made Christ man being also God in such wise to tremble and quake I hope you doe not meane that Christes godhead trembled at your other death or was subiect to any humane feares or miseries nor that your other death was so dreadfull that his diuine power could not keepe him from trembling and quaking at it It was no small part of Christes obedience and humilitie to lay aside his strength when he suffered for our sinnes and not by power to resist repulse or ease the paines which his passion should bring but with exact sense to feele it and with woonderfull patience to indure it Neither was it no part of Christes purpose by his sorrow and feare in the Garden to giue vs to vnderstand that he would vse no power which he might easily haue done to diminish the vehemency or sense of the paines prepared for him least his so sauing himselfe from smart by his secret power should delude Gods Iustice impaire his loue to vs and put vs in despaire of following his example since we had no power to succour ourselues as we might imagine of him had he not by naturall and euident signes of true feare and sorow confirmed vnto vs that he felt his afflictions as much as we doe ours and will helpe our infirmitie and ease our miserie though he would not spare himselfe So that hence a good Christian would collect Christes submission to the weakest degree of mans infirmitie and his communion with vs in tasting the sharpest of our sorowes and not exaggerate his power to make him capable of the second death g Reuel 21. which is the lake burning with fire and brimstone as the Scriptures affirme and consequent not antecedent to the first death as you dreame in Christes case besides that the h Reuel 14. smoke of their torments which are cast into this lake ascendeth euermore and they haue no rest night nor day i Defenc. pag. 103. li. 25. Indeed Christ had farre greater cause as you say to feare euen his bodily death then any of his members haue For it was therefore because death approched vnto him clasped fast with hell so that he could not by the ordinance of God meddle with the one but he must feele the other My wordes enlarged and peruerted by you may seeme to make some musicke for you but of themselues they are true and no way touch
your vntuned and hie strained cratchets That Christ must and did breake the knot betwixt death and hell which otherwise were fast clasped together and by receauing the one in his owne person did free all his members from the other is no question neither with me nor I thinke with any Christian man The iust vengeance deserued and prepared for sinne which was temporall and eternall death the Redeemer must throughly know least he should ransome vs he could not tell from what Wherefore not your new found hell but the wages of our sinne which was eternall death vsually called hell in the Scriptures might not be hidde from the eâ—…es of Christ but euen the iust and full reward of our iniquities was to be presented to the sight and spirit of the Redeemer that in the presence of God he might behold the waight of our sinne the greatnesse and iustnesse of Gods anger against it and accordingly conceaue how deare the price and how sharpe the paine must be that should quitte vs from this debt and yet how pretious his person and infinite his obedience was that by one death should excuse vs from the other Whether these things were reuealed and shewed to Christ by sight as the terrors and torments of hell might be or by vision or in spirit I dare not pronounce I meddle not so farre with Gods secrets God hath waies enough to propose the Iudgemets of the next world to men here liuing when and how pleaseth him but of none of these might Christ be ignorant least we make him a Sauiour at peraduentures as not knowing all things that directly belonged to his office and sacrifice and to the causes effects of our Redemption That therfore Christ must haue a perfect knowledge and liuely sight and view of all these things pertaining to the waight and burden of mans deliuerance chiefly now when he appeared in Gods iudgement where nothing is couered to performe the fame I may safely grant but that he felt or suffered eternall death or the paines of the damned or the full wages of our sinnes this you shall neuer prooue how much soeuer you presume with licentious but irreligious words to couer it and conuey it into the Creed of Christians k Defenc. pag. 103. li. 29. He did not contemplate and looke on them a farre of nor had to do with one more then the other but by suffering one he felt both and by enduring one he endured both Your speaches are false absurd and impious howsoeuer you will qualifie them when you come to the point with the substances but not with the circumstances of eternall death and damnation First shew that the Scripture teacheth any such thing of Christ The Defender forgeth apace new parts of the Christian faith as that he suffered the second death or the paines of the damned Next that your deuice of this new second death which dureth but for a moment and proceedeth from Gods owne hand agreeth with the word of God And Thirdly that God did thus torment the soule of his sonne with his immediate hand either in the garden or on the crosse All these things are your owne dreames plainly plastered to the Christian faith with figures and phrases of your owne coining and yet you thinke you haue wrong if you be not suffered to change the whole Creede and outface the Scriptures with your idle fansies That Christ should and did suffer a bodily death on the crosse the Prophets did forshew the Euangelists doe witnesse and the Apostles doe confirme That he died the second death in the garden before the first or that this death came to him by fitts and dured but the turning of an hand and was inflicted on his soule by Gods immediate hand as the other death was on his body by the Iewes what Prophet what Euangelist what Apostle did euer teach or write And how hang your owne words with your owne conceits by suffering the one Christ felt both you say and by enduring the one he endured both Then in the Garden when as yet he suffered not the death of the body he felt not your second death and Gods immediate hand did cease if by the one which the Iewes inflicted he endured both If you fly to Christes fearing and apprehending the second death by the first then are you farre from his suffering and enduring it and this apprehension which was not erroneous in Christ as it is in you might offer him a feare of Gods power which is more infinite then the manhoode of Christ could comprehend and so might be terrible to him as it is to all the godly when they finde or feele Gods anger against sinne but it could breed no perswasion or distrust that God would destroy him for our sinnes since he perfectly knew God would saue vs by his sufferings l Defenc. pag. 104. li. Also you forget my argument that Christ alwayes charged his Disciples not to take their bodily death heauily for righteousnesse sake ergo he himselfe would neuer be so dismáyed with the feare of it As I did not professe in my conclusion to refute all your follies which were both trifling and tedious so if I had purposed any such thing I should haue skipped this as an argument rather of your ignorance and vanitie than of any force or veritie For first where did I defend in my Sermons that Christes bodilie death was the cause of this agonie recken my sixe causes on your fingers ends if your memorie be so fickle that refuting them you can not tell what they are and see whether Christes bodily death be any of them or no if it be none how doth this argument conclude any thing against me who shew so many things which might concurre in Christes feare besides his bodily death Wherefore your conclusion if it were good is no way preiudiciall to me nor beneficiall to your hell paines For though Christ feared somewhat els there is a large leape betweene somewhat els and the death of the damned But what was it that Christ willed his Disciples to feare Christ teacheth all his to feare Gods power as himselfe did in the garden Gods purpose meaning to condemne Christians to hell or his power that was able to destroy soule and bodie in hell Did Christ teach in these words a desperation of Gods fauour or submission vnder the mighty hand of God and a religious feare not to displease him To feare religiously not distrustfully Gods power since they were persuaded of Gods goodnesse whom Christ calleth his friends and so not to prouoke him considering the mightinesse of his arme is the summe of Christes doctrine in that place as God himselfe by the Prophet Esay taught all the faithfull saying m Esa. 8. Sanctifie the Lord of hosts and let him be your fearâ—… and let him be your dread A deepe impression of this feare commended to all the Elect whiles heere they liue Christ himselfe might haue and shew in the
the Garden and complained on the Crosse as if he were forsaken which things they thought vnfit for him that was God The Fathers to repell their heresie and to open this obscuritie insist plainly on these points that the Mediatour must be God as well as man and that the Godhead of Christ incarnate was impassible and could not suffer any violence or change but his manhood might and did suffer somethings in soule as feare and sorow and somethings in bodie as paines and death But generally when they speake of death they neuer intend as you doc the death of Christes soule as well as of his bodie but they meane plainly the death of the Crosse described by the Euangelists which is farre from the second death or the death of the damned c Defenc. pag. 111. li. 36. The very same doth Hilarie also where he sayth that this in Christ was Corporis vox The outcrie of his bodie he plainly meaneth it of his whole manhood the opposition being betweene it and his Godhead as the Scripture often doth If your authoritie be such that you may take bodie for soule and life for death where you will you may soone make a shew that the Fathers intend nothing against your doctrine but if you must proue it as well as say it then is it the most riotous and most ridiculous course that can be to take one contrarie for another for so you may proue darknesse to be light vice to be vertue falshood to be trueth and infidelitie to be faith What the Fathers taught touching the death of Christes soule when we come to the place we shall plainly see by their owne asserting and not by your peruerting in the meane time you were best bring stronger proofes than these that you will take the bodie for the soule if you meane to conclude any thing out of the Fathers for your croslegged doctrine d Trea. pag. 9. The Scripture often doth the like you say as you haue shewed in your Treatise There you haue childishly abused a number of Scriptures and yet no way prooued that any where the bodie signifieth the soule or standeth for the soule That the soule is a consequent to the bodie and the bodie likewise a consequent to the soule wheresoeuer The sâ—…ule is a câ—…nsequent to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 but no part of it the Scripture speaketh of men liuing heere on earth is a sure and safe rule because no man heere liueth that doeth not consist of soule and bodie yet that is no proofe that what is attributed to the bodie must be verified of the soule much lesse that the one must be taken for the other Looke but to your owne examples where bodie is named e Rom. 6. Let not sinne reigne in your mortall bodies sayth the Apostle If here you will comprehend the soule vnder the name of the bodie you must grant in exact words that the soule is mortall which is an open heresie destroying the summe and effect of the Christian faith Againe f 1. Cor. 6. Euery sinne that a man doth is without the body but the fornicato-sinneth against his owne bodie If in this place the bodie conclude the soule then euery sinne saue fornication is without soule and body and consequently no sinne which is a doctrine a man would thinke meet for no Diuine The third instance which you bring hath not so grosse sequels but as plaine falshoods g Hebr. 10. Sacrifice and burnt offerings thou wouldest not but a bodie hâ—…st thou ordained me whereof the sacrifices offered by the Law were h Ibid. vers 1. shadowes Now did the bodies of beasts slaine or their bloud shed prefigure the Soule of Christ or the death of his bodie These be the places on which you build your vnsound obseruation that the Scripture doth often take the bodie for the soule which are so sensibly false that they need no Refuter But we reason of death which seuereth the soule from the bodie and therein to say the bodie must be taken for the soule is a very sincke of sottish absurdities and falsities For what can be more repugnant to trueth and sense than to take a dead bodie for a liuing soule and when they are so farre seuered by nature to say they must agree in name and the one be called the other Peruse now the Fathers which you would faine wrest to your purpose and see whether they doe not flatly contradict your deuice that the body in their speaches must be taken for the whole man and so the death of Christes body for the death as well of soule as of the body Epiphanius is the first that you would frustrate with your deuices and the first that shall conuince your falshood He saith the manhood of Christ spake these words Now seeing the deity together with the soule moouing to forsake his sacred body What death call you that where the soule moueth and forsaketh the body then in that complaint of Christs the thing forsaken was his body alone by the iudgement of Epiphanius and the deity i Epiph. contra 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 69. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 together with the soule did mooue 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to forsake that sacred body Which way doth this prooue the soule or the whole manhood of Christ to be forsaken when Epiphanius expresly saith the deity with the soule did mooue to forsake the body Hilarie is the next whom you would infect with your fansie but finding no words in him meet for your matter you are forced shamefully to misconster the body for the soule and the death of the one for the death of the other which is all the hold you haue in Hilarie though you lustily would beare out the rest with the copy of your countenance Notwithstanding Hilarie doth not only preuent but also refute your mistaking For in plaine words he saith k 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 10. Querela derelicti morientis infirmit as est traditio spirit us morientis excessio est The complaint of Christ that he was forsaken was the infirmity of one dying the yeelding vp his spirit was his departure hence when he died And againe Tradens spiritum mortuus est Christ died by deliuering vp his spirit Sepultus est Christus quia mortuus est mortuus autem est quia moriturus locutus est Deus Deus meus quare me dereliquisti Christ was buried because he was dead and ready to die he said My God my God why hast thou forsaken me So that Christes death when he spake those words was not past nor present but then to come as Hilarie noteth by the future tence and was the deliuering vp of his spirit into his fathers hands I trust you dare not defend that Christ in or after the deliuering vp of his spirit suffered the paines of hell or the second death and yet saith Hilarie those words Christ spake of his death that was to come Tertullian is the last whose words though
you mightily mistake mistranslate yet make they nothing for you but against you directly Writing against Praxeas that denied the Father and the Sonne to be two distinct persons and taught that the Father became sonne to himselfe l 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ca. 2. and was made man and crucisied after many proofes to shew the person of the sonne to be different from the person of the father he citeth those words of Christ on the crosse My God my God why hast thou forsaken me and saith m Ibid. ca. 30. hâ—…c vox carnis animae idest hominis non sermonis nec spiritus id est Dei propterea emissa est vt impassibilem Deum ostenderet qui sic filium dereliquit dum hominem eius trâ—…didit in mortem Caeterum non reliquit Pater Filium in cuius manibus Filius spiritum suum posuit Denique posuit statim obijt Spiritu enim manente in carne caro omnino mori non potest Ita relinqui a Patre fuit mori filio This voice of the flesh and soule that is of the man not of the word nor of the spirit that is not of God was therefore spoken to shew that God is impassible who so left his sonne whiles he deliuered his manhood to death Yet the Father did not altogether forsake the sonne into whose hands the sonne breathed out his spirit For he breathed it out and straighâ—…way died Whiles the spirit remained in the flesh the flesh could not die at all So that to be forsaken of the Father was in the sonne to die Here are the words of Tertullian in order as they stand Where it is euident that he affirmeth no death nor forsaking in Christ but only that when the spirit left the body His words are plaine The Father forsocke not the sonne into whose hands the sonne deposed his spirit For he laid it downe and died So to be forsaken of the Father was this for the sonne to die by laying downe his spirit or soule as before he prooueth Christ did Then suffered Christ no death of the soule since he died not till he breathed out his spirit into his fathers hands and other forsaking the sonne felt none then so to die by the separation of his soule from his body Now touching the voice of the soule and the flesh whereof Tertullian speaketh What forsaking 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of either he maketh three parts in man as the Apostle doth Thess 1 5. verse 23. the spirit the soule and the body and then the soule noteth the operations of life and sense which were to cease for the time by death or els he affirmeth this voice came from both soule and body because the soule was to be separated from her body by death as well as the body to be left dead both which are a kind of forsaking Other death he nameth none here then to die by breathing out the spirit And so long as the spirit abideth in the flesh the flesh he saith cannot die at all Christ therefore endured no death whiles his spirit did abide in his body and consequently no death of the soule and when he breathed out his spirit he straightway died which was the forsaking that he complained of in those words So that all your collections heere out of Tertullian are your additions to Tertullian and not so much as one of them to be found or fet from his text He speaketh not a word that Christ n Defenc. pag. suffered in both these parts from his father nor that this death or forsaking o li. 15. was ment of the flesh and of the 1 12. li. 20. soule as you falsly translate him And as for Tertullians confirming that p li. 26. heresie of Christes being no true naturall man except Christ suffered q li. 23. the stroke of Gods hand in his soule as the proper vengcance of sinne this is your blinde deuice absurdly foisted into Tertullian without any word or letter sounding that way r Defenc. pag. 112. li. 31. This dereliction of which he speaketh is more 〈◊〉 the separation of the soule and bodie euen the separation of the deitie from the whole manhood which is the death of the soule I speake nothing here but the Fathers words yea the Scriptures Your setting vnto Tertullian Tertullian nameth no death but of Christes bodie your owne sense is an impudent attempt and the weakest argument that can be when you tell vs he meaneth so though he speake not one word touching the death of the soule but as exactly as he can or should nameth the death of the bodie by this that he sayth Denique spiritum posuit statim obijt Spiritu enim manente in carne caro omnino mori non potest Christ layd downe his spirit and straightway died For whiles the spirit remained in the flesh the flesh could not die at all What was it to lay downe his spirit into his fathers hands as the Scripture speaketh of Christ on the crosse but to die the death of the body Those very words Tertullian here citeth and vseth and thereby prooueth the Father had not inwardly forsaken the sonne since the sonne by the manifest words of himselfe reported in the Euangelist commended and yeelded his spirit to his fathers hands So that against the death of the soule Tertullians words are pregnant for how did the soule die that was commended into Gods hands and other death Tertullian nameth nor meaneth none but only this Denique spiritum posuit statim obijt Christ laied downe his spirit into his fathers hands and straightway died As for your speaking nothing heere but the fathers and the Scriptures words beware you take not vp the Diuels trade to keepe their words and peruert their sense It is no great mastery to abuse mens words yea the word of God which all Hereticks haue euer drawen to their owne false and wicked purposes s Defenc. pag. 112. li. 34. Your owne place of Epiphanius saith that now his deity departed from his manhood So saith your owne Hilarie also Corporis vox contestata recedentis a se Dei dissidium So saith Ambrose clamauit homo diuinitat is separatione moriturus The man Christ did crie being about to die by the separation of his Godhead You alleage three places to this purpose and either corrupt or peruert all three most apparantly â—…piphanius saith that Christs deity TOGETHER WITH THE SOVLE departed from his sacred body which is as plaine a description of bodily death as may be vttered You leaue out the words TOGETHER WITH THE SOVLE as crossing your course and turne the body into the soule meaning by this corruption to load Epiphanius with a sense cleane contrarie to his owne Hilaries words spoken of Christes body you enlarge to the whole manhood of Christ and thence conclude directly against Hilaries meaning and words that the deity departed from both where as Hilarie professeth of Christ t Hilarius
much deceaued when he said vnto him that stood there in presence Thou art the sonne of the liuing God and Christ himselfe was more then deceaued when he answered s Matth 16. Blessed art thou for flesh and bloud hath not reuealed it vnto thee but my Father which is in heauen Then speaketh not Athanasius of Christs diuine nature but of his person which was t Athanasius contra 〈◊〉 serm 4. ALWAIES in his father that is before he spake those words and after And euen when he spake those words the father declared saith Athanasius by the miracles presently following that he was THEN ALSO in his sonne incarnate as euer before Doth not this directly conclude that Athanasius intended God was in the speaker of those words euen when he spake them and that at no time the father forsooke the person incarnate no not when he spake those words since God to shew that he had not forsaken him who then spake vnto him made heauen and earth to witnesse how much he esteemed the person that so complained u Defenc pag. 113. li. 35. Touching Christs humanity Athanasius denieth not but God might for sake it for so the Scripture saith The question is not for the word but for the sense You finding the word of forsaking to be vsed in the Scripture put what sense you list to it and thence would prooue the death of Christs soule with as strange positions as the maine error it selfe For you grant Christs manhood was not forsaken neither of Gods FAâ—…OVR nor GRACE nor of continuall and constant ioy in God much lesse of What contrarieties the Defender is driuen to the fulnesse of Gods spirit which rested on him and yet you say he died the death of the soule for want of comsort As if there were no comfort neither in the grace nor in the fauour of God nor in the ioies of his spirit nor in the hope of his promises all which were most assured to him to the highest degree that any creature was capable of Did you meane that he had no ease of his paines nor end of reproches whiles he liued as also no deliuerance from the hands of his persecutors nor protection from death all these might be borne with since the Scriptures giue manifest testimony that these things he suffered till he died but these things that are true will not serue your turne you vrge his soule died because he had no heauenly life such as he tasted in his transfiguration where x Matth. 17. his face did shine as the 〈◊〉 and the clothes were as white as the light which prooueth his soule to be no more dead in his passion then it was all his life long besids and that will no man in his right wits auouch of Christ or of his Saints here in earth y Defenc pag. 114. li. 1. 4. Your fift exposition is Leos conceit without warrant farre fetcht hardly applied Origen is also here as weake Pricke on in your pride despising all the world besids your selfe and skorning euery mans opinion that hitteth not right with your fansie though The fift sense of Christes complaint on the crosse few men speake or write so absurdly and falsly as you doe Leos exposition vtterly subuerteth your hellish assertion and that maketh you fling it away with such disdaine as you doe Otherwise it hath more vicinity with the circumstances of the text then yours by many degrees For there is nothing in Leos interpretation which accordeth not with the Christian faith and hath his foundation in the very words of the sacred Scriptures in both which your hellish and harrish application faileth He saith z Leo de Pass Dom. serm 16. Vox ista doctrina est non querela those words were an instruction not a lamentation And his reason is past your refuting Cum in Christo Dei hominis vna sit persona nec potuerit ab eo relinqui à quo non poterat separari pro nobis trepidis infirmis interrogat cur caro pati metuens ex audita non fuerit Since in Christ there was but one person of God and man he could not be for saken of him from whom he could not be seuered he ASKETH for our sakes that are fearefull and weake why flesh fearing to suffer was not heard Which of these things can you refell with all the witte in your head the coniunction and communion of both natures in one person of Christ you were not best meddle with lest you sowe damnable heresies as thicke as you haue done notable absurdities He saith further Cur for quare and non exandities for relictus Aske the Boyes in Pauls schoole what difference betwixt cur and quare both signifying WHY and being both interrogatiues as Leo rightly obserueth concurring with that of Saint Austen who said as we haue heard before a August epist. 120. Causam commonuit requirendam cum addidit vt quid dereliquistime Christ warned them to search for the cause when he added WHY HAST THOV FORSAKEN ME His exposition of the word forsaking he taketh out of the very Psalme whence Christ cited the rest For so Dauid ioined them together My God my God why hast thou forsaken me and art so farrc from sauiâ—…g or deliuering me I crie by day and thou hearest not So that not to heare and not to deliuer is the forâ—…aking which Dauid ment in that place and which in all likelihood our Sauiour intended as Saint Austen thinketh if he spake of his owne person b August Ibid. Quare me dereliquisti tanquam diceret relinquendo me hoc est non me exaudiendo longè factus es à salute mea praesenti scilicet salute huius vitae Why hast thou forsaken me as if he should haue said leauing me that is not hearing me thou art farre from sauing me to wit from the present safety of this life So saith Leo. c De Passione serm 16. In ipso tantae victoriae exaltatus triumpho causam rationem qua sit relictus id est non exauditus inquirit Christ exalted in the triumph of so great a victory inquireth the cause reason why he is forsaken that is not heard The reason therof he giueth soberly learnedly and truely howsoeuer your humour like it not d Idem de Pass Dom. serm 17. That the Lord should be deliuered to his passion it was as well his Fathers will as â—…is owne vt 〈◊〉 non solum Pater relinqueret sed etiam ipse se quadam ratione desereret That not only the father might leaue him but that after a sort he should forsake himselfe not by any fearefull shrincking but by a voluntary cession For the power of Christ crucisied conteined it selfe from those wicked ones and to performe his secret disposition he would not vse any manifest power He that came by his passion to destroy death and the author of death how should he saue sinners if he would
so grieuous feare trouble and sorow of mind or soule that he cried out My God my God why hast thou forsaken me I make good difference betwixt the Booke of Homilies confirmed as well by the publicke authority of Prince and Parliament Anno Reginae 13. ca 12 as by the generall subscription of the vpper and neather house in the conuocation Anno 1571 to a In the 35. article of Homilies containe godlie wholesome and necessarie doctrine and the Catechisme then licenced to be taught in Schooles to yong scholers but without any such autoritie as the former is Shew the like approbation and you shall freely call it the publike autorized doctrine of England till you doe so giue me leaue to tell you that the one is indeede by publicke authority receaued and ratified euen as the articles are the other was by priuate discretion permitted and tolerated to be taught in Grammar schooles but publicke authority of the whole Realme you may chalenge none vnto it And therefore I take my selfe in matters of faith not bound vnto it farder then it accordeth with the manifest trueth deliuered in the â—…acred Scriptures Againe your selfe doâ—… more impugne the Catechisme then I doe For if your owne wordes be true that Christ when he vttered those b Defenc. pag. 110. li. 28. 34. words spake in his mind of his constant and continuall ioy in God and was in exceeding generall and constant ioy What place leaue you for any of those wordes which you cite out of the Catechisme to haue any trueth in them since they speake of exceeding and horrible feares and sorrows which I thinke are contrarie to your triumphant generall and constant ioy And although I thinke it no reason that a thing priuatly permitted should abrogate the full and maine consent of the learned and auntient Fathers as you would haue it to doe and therefore make it free when the Carechisme swatueth from their sense and interpretation to be of another mind yet I condemne nothing in it as wicked but wish that soâ—…e few places had been more cleerly and more particularlâ—…e deliuered and expressed to auoid such cauillers as you and some others are But you with open mouth reiâ—…ct euen those places which now you produce as passing strange doctrine and simply impossible For where the Catechisme here in these words which you alleage saith Christ was Aeternae mortis horrore perfusus perfused or wholy touched with an horror which is a trembling feare of eternall death you not only reason against it that c Defenc. pag. 9â—… li. 13. Christ could not feare that which he perfectly knew concerned him not at all and by no meanes could euer possibly come neere him but you make it d li. 12. passing strange doctrine and simply impossible that Christ should feare or pray against the whole and intire cup of eternall death And yet the Catechisme saith he trembled and was ouercast with the horror of it You misâ—…ike that the Catechisme saith except you may peruert it to your pleasure and in steed of fearing eternall death you say Christ suffered the second death which is die death of the damned and so refusing the Catechisme for saying so much you say more and thinke the Catechisme is of your mind But sir tell vs how Christ could be stroken with the HORROR OF ETERNALL DEATH for those aâ—…e the wordes of the Catechisme and not how he suffered your new made hell which the Catechisme neuer speaketh of I haue deliuered two senses to salue the Catechisme which you impugne The first that Christ in respect of his members to whom that death was due might in loue and pietie towards them inwardly tremble at the punishment deserued by them since mercie maketh vs truely feele the very smart of other mens harmes and dangers and where we hartily loue no lesse then if they were imminent ouer our owne heads The second that Christ fearing the power of Gods wrath against sinne which is infinite may in a sort be sayd to tremble at the effects thereof by reason he trembled at the cause thereof And in this sense the consideration and apprehension of Gods infinite power and displeasure against sinne might brâ—…ede those horrible feares and sorrowes which the Catcchisme talketh of Otherwise I must be plaine the Catechisme sayth more then can be prooued by any Scripture or any learned and auncient Father and more then you your selfe allow or like saue that you would out of his vehement speaches make some aduantage to your cause though in substance you wholy dissent from the maker thereof For he speaketh of feare and sorrow you of re 〈◊〉 al solute suffering he of eternall death due to sin you of a new found hell from the immediate hand of God which is no part of the Catcchisers meaning since he plainely nameth future and euerlasting death due to sinners and not a present and temporall hell which is not the full wages of sinne nor of the damned The like I say for the notes added by the Printer or correctour to the great Bible whose text is authorized to be read in the Church but not the notes to be of equall credit or authoritie with the text And if you may turne of the whole aâ—…ay of auncient and Catholike Fathers because they diflent from your conceits how much lesse am I bound to correctours or Printers adding often times to other mens workes and labours what pleaseth themselues Though the note be not such but that it may receiue the former construction and be tolerated welâ—… enough Wherefore I meane euen the same giddy spirit which before I did buzzing in the eares of the people his owne fancies against the Scriptures against the Fathers and against the doctrine of this Realme confirmed by publike authoritie of Prince and Parliament The recollecting of your former reason so lately and largely answered I omit as tedious trifling and since you say no more then is before refuted what should I trouble my selfe and the Reader with repeating the same things so often iterated e Defenc pag. 118. li. 10. You haue yet heere and there some exceptions against this our doctrine which are not to be cleane neglected First you say I extend Christs agonie to farre because I will haue is proceede from the intolerable sorrowes and horrors of Gods siery wrath equall to â—…ell I shew not there the cause of Christs agonie and feare I shewed it of purpose in the beginning Why did you not refuse that You extend it so farre according to my wordes yea your maine purpose is to make that the cause of Christs agonie in the garden and on the crosse onely you would vse some cunning in the carriage of it first to make sorrowes and feares the cause thereof and at the next step to aske what sorrowes and feares could those be but the intolerable sorowes and horrors of Gods fierie wrath equall to hell And to this end you quote both the
Catechisme and the notes in the great Bible here to shew the cause of Christs agonie to be these horrible sorrowes and torments as the Catechisme sayth of future and euerlasting death Why then are you so nice when you fully intend it in shew to denie it why did you not refuse that in the beginning The causes that might concurre in Christs agonie I shewed in my sermons out of the auncient Fathers agreeing with the Scriptures why should I repeate it againe in my conclusion you bringing nothing against it but a few voluntarie and emptie words which I know no man so vnwise as to regard without better proofe f pa 118. li. 32 There is no other sorrow in the world to be found which can be imagined to be the cause possibly You erre as well in aggrauating Christs agonie aboue that the text auoucheth as in assigning a false cause thereof out of your owne fansie Feare and sorrow the Scripture affirmeth in Christ if we so interprete the words as you doe but such feare and such sorow as cannot be found in the world except the feares sorowes of the second death this is your bold assertion no way mentioned nor purposed in the Scriptures nor grounded on any sound reason or experience For where the paines of some kinds of bodily deaths be often greater then mans nature can endure and therefore violently part the soule from the body what did hinder the paines of Christs body on the crosse to be such that they pressed his patience to the highest degree since he would not strengthen his flesh to sustaine the paines of hell as you pretend but layd downe all power that he might feele the smart and anguish of his bodily torments as tenderly as any man could Now what paines in others ouerwhelme the senses and hasten death as passing the strength of mans nature why might not euen the same bodily paines in Christ so presse his humane weakenesse that he felt himselfe able with patience to support no more and so prayed on the crosse for an end thereof and foresaw so much in the Garden which made him earnest if it were possible to decline it What can be sayd against this sharpenesse and bitternesse of bodily paine since in all Martyrs and malefactours their deaths declare that paine in the end doth so preuaile that the rage thereof is vtterly intolerable to mans nature and therefore sundereth the soule from the body with extreme violence as exceeding all humanâ—… patience and strength g Defenc. pag. 118. li. 34. My other words also which here you cruelly condemne shall stand well enough that Christ as touching the vehemencie of paine was as sharpely touched as the reprobates themselues yea if it may be more extraordinarily though you labour with might and maine to make them amount to heresie and open blasphemie My words were more moderate then your dangerous comparisons deserued h Conclus pa. 290. li 35. I prayed you in so waightie matters as might amount to heresie and open blasphemie not to play with generall termes such as you neither vnderstood your selfe nor any man else could conceiue your meaning You would needs tell vs that Christ in soule was as sharpely touched and with as great vehemencie of paine euen as the reprobates themselues and more if it might be I asked you not where you found this written in the word of God which is the rule of our faith an vnwritten creâ—…de must needs haue vnwritten conclusions nor how you prooued it for your owne will is your best warrant for your new faith but what you ment thereby The terrors of the reprobates in this life which we might collect by the Scriptures were i Ibid. pa. 291. remorse of sinne reiection from Gods fauour desperation of mercie here and of all ioy and blisle in the world to come and a dreadfull expectation of horrible confusion and euerlasting fire k Ibidem I thought you durst not I hoped you would not offer so much as the mention of the least of these to be found in the sonne of God What wrong did I here vnto you were it not with too much sparing you and how plainly did I prouoke you to expresse your selfe but that your cunning is such that then you did and yet you doe forbeare to vnfold your generall and ambiguous speaches You persist still in your old song and say that touching the vehemencie of paine this is true As though remorse reiection desperation and expectation of euerlasting confusion and fire were NO PAINES to the soules of the reprobates Why play you with the name of paine to and fro after this sort Why role you sometimes to feares sometime to sorrowes sometime to paines as the causes of Christs agonie and those sometime apprehended by the mind of Christ sometime really inflicted by Gods immediate hand what Christ did or might apprehend you neuer declare you thinke it enough to tell vs his l Defenc. pag. 52. li. 35. vnderstanding chiefly conceiued the furie of that hand which principally strooke those blowes vpon his humane nature and thus with Metaphors you delude vs when you should distinctly deliuer what Christ conceiued of those afflictions which he suffered from the counsell and power of God determining them for mans redemption Yea besides apprehension and conception of mind you bring in your hell paines at your pleasure as an inherent and absolute torment really inflicted on the soule of Christ by Gods immediate hand as it is on all the damned after this life for the vengeance of their sinnes and when you are asked the proofe of these things you affourd vs figures and phrases to stuffe out your wallet m Defenc. pag. 119. li. 1. Why doe you not bend your odious outcries and accusations against the authoritie before truely cited which maintaineth the same so fully and amply as I deliuer it The Catechisme hath some generall words that Christ conflicted with all the powers of hell not as suffering them but as resisting them and that he endured horrible feares and griefes of mind to satisfie the iudgement of God and to pacifie his wrath These words if you will stretch to what please you they may seeme to haue some seedes of your error though not the buds and branches thereof but as they be generall so if we reuoke them to the grounds of the sacred Scriptures which was no doubt the writers and the allowers meaning then may we extend them no farder then we haue warrant in the word of God to iustifie them The feares and horrors which you would conuert to the reall suffering of the temporall hell the Catechisme referreth to the feare and horror of euerlasting death which you confesse Christ n Defenc pag. 99. most perfectly knew concerned him not at all and by no meanes could euer possibly come neere him How then doe you concurre with the authoritie which you cite saue that you peruert some generall words there
to Gods will yes neuerthelesse as touching the desire it selfe and his particular present inclination compared to Gods particular determination herein If Christes prayer in the garden were heard as the Apostle saith it was then is it euident it was no way repugnant to the will of God for God doth not vse to grant petitions made contrarie to his will And then we must so interprete the sense of Christs praier that it might take effect in his sufferings as I thinke it did And though we should suppose it tooke not effect yet since he himselfe did so condition his desire of nature that he subiected it to the will of God which way can you proue it contrary to Gods knowen will Christs particular present inclination compared to Gods particular determination herein you say was contrary to it I denie that vtterly For Christs particular and present inclination of mans nature to dislike paine and death was Gods generall ordinance in all men and Gods speciall will in the manhood of Christ at that instant and Christes determination was the same with Gods since he submitted the one to the other and resolued as we find in his praier with obedience willingly to vndergoe that shamefull and painfull death which Gods iustice purposed for the sinnes of men Yea God hath not only ordained that the Crosse should be greeuous vnto vs as it was to the manhood of Christ but he misliketh when it is otherwise that is if we despise his correction because it is made tolerable by his fatherly goodnesse respecting our weakenesse a Ierem. 5. Thou hast striken them but they haue not sorowed saith the Prophet meaning they despised the hand of God because it was tempered with mercy and plagued them not vnto destruction Then is it Gods will that affliction should grieue vs and he hath not only so created vs but it is his purpose when he smiteth to haue vs feele it and to haue vs mourne vnder the Crosse but yet without distrust of his goodnesse or dislike of his counsell though it pinch vs neuer so neere in the sense of our nature What contrariety then to Gods will had Christs inclination of nature shunning death and the sharpenesse thereof so farre as was possible and did stand with Gods pleasure since his resolution was the same with Gods will most obediently to suffer it though it seemed neuer so sharp to his flesh which was Gods will it should as for Balaams bad desire I leaue it to you to comment thereon at your leasure his wicked auarice secretly seeking after gaine though pretending Gods name ought not in Christes case to be so much as mentioned b Defenc. pag. 125. li. 2. When we perfectly know and remember Gods certaine will euery light affection and sodaine wishing to the contrary howsoeuer conditionally is no lesse then manifest sin â—…inst God Is it sinne in Martyrs that their flesh by sense of nature endureth not quietly the rage of fire without feare and griefe or is it rather a godly conflict betwixt the â—…eadinesse of the spirit and the weakenesse of the flesh to feele the one and to follow the other in regard of duty to God and his blessed will which hath prouided not pleasure but paine to make triall of patience In desires and delights the sense of the flesh is to be declined least it bait the minde and wax vnruly but in feare and paine Gods sacred will is that the flesh should be flesh and not senselesse nor carelesse that the spirit may be prooued and the c 1. Pet. 1. triall of our faith in affliction being much more pretioâ—… then gold may be found to the praise of God It is therefore no sinne c 1. Pet. 1. for a season if need require to be in heauinesse through manifold tentations Neither did Christ tell his Disciples that they should not weepe lament nor sorow in their miseries since nothing could befall them without the direct and expresse will of God with whom the d Matth. 10. haires of their heads are numbred But he promisâ—…th their e Iohn 16. sorow shal be turned to ioy Wherefore Christs present and particular inclination in nature to dislike the bitternesse of paine and death was not contrary to Gods disposition but answeareable to it so long as in obedience he alwaies referred himselfe to the will of God and his petition being conditionall so farre as might stand with Gods good will was no way touched with any shew of sinne much lesse in plaine wordes repugnant to Gods knowen will though our Sauiour were in perfect remembrance as the Scripture declareth he was and aduisedly considered and regarded the will of God in euery part of his praier f Defenc. pag. 126. li. 11. The very nature of all conditionall desires is such that it includeth euermore a possibility at least of being contrary to his will whom we desire This generall obseruation of yours is not true and though it were it maketh nothing to this purpose The Saints haue often prayed in full persuasion of faith yet with a condition not as doubting but as humbling themselues in his presence before whom or of whom they spake When God had sayd to Iacob g Genes 28. Loe I am with thee and will keepe thee whither soeuer thou goest and will bring thee againe into this land Iacob vowed saying if God will be with me and will keepe me in the iourney which I goe so that I come againe into my fathers house in safetie then shall the Lord be my God Shall we say because God addeth a conditionall to his vow that either he doubted of Gods promise made vnto him that verie night or that it was possible to be contrarie to Gods will I trust not So Moses confessed to God h Exod. 33. See thou hast said vnto me I know thee by name and thou hast also found fauour in my sight Now therefore I pray thee if I haue found fauour in thy sight shew me now thy way that I may know thee Was Moses vnfaithfull to the mouth of God because he maketh that a condition which God vttered as an affirmatiue or was there any possibilitie of the contrarie to that which God had once pronounced Likewise the Apostles vnder conditions expresse most certaine assertions as Paul i 2. Thesâ—… 1. If it be a iust thing with God to recompense trouble to them which trouble you and to you which are troubled rest with vs when the Lord Iesus shâ—…ll shew himselfe from heauen Meaning there can be no doubt but it is iust though he made it conditionall But we need not this rule for the praiers of Christ in the garden Christ knew it was possible for Gods power to saue him from death and yet to make him the Sauiour of the world but as Gods counsell decreed and reuealed now stood he knew it was not possible the whole cup should passe from him but that he must drinke thereof
determine cleane contraries in one sentence which were open inconstancie and no way imaginable in the Sonne of God or this latter must remoue the former being repugnant to the maine consent of his will and intent of his comming For therefore came he into this houre of mans redemption because he would not be saued from it with mans destruction And thus much the best and most skilfull Interpreters haue collected to be the force of the wordes following to which Christ addeth the coniunction aduersatiue 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which in their iudgement supposeth heere a negatiue precedent So Chrysostom conceiueth our Sauiours words I do not say saue me from this houre And why Because the words following with an aduersatiue repugnance to the former words doe proue not the first but the last to be Christs full purpose h Defenc. pag. 129. li. 38. Chrysostom Epiphanius doe descant about it trying how the text may beare such a meaning but it can not stand being so euidently against the course of the text Indeed Chrysostom and Epiphanius are not comparable to you neither in learning nor iudgement you make vs such new positions and principles both of reason and faith that their Diuinitie is stale to yours but with all learned and wise men the yongest of the twaine will be trusted for the true sense of a text farre before such Dreamers and Deuisers as you are The course of the text is euidently against it you say What course of the text The words vsed by our Sauiour are with it But therefore came I into this houre What sense or meaning can this sentence haue but that Christ purposely comming into this houre had no resolution to be deliuered from this houre which being true the former words Father saue me from this houre may shew the desire or doubt of nature inclining to that petition but the present refusall thereof followeth expressing Christes will and purpose in putting himselfe into that houre These words then But therefore came I into thiâ—… houre are in effect not so for therefore came I into this houre Which the best Interpreters olde and new haue obserued in the force of Christes words i Chrysost. in Johaâ—…nem homil 66. Therefore came I into this houre as if Christ had sayd sayth Chrysostom though we be moued and troubled yet we flee not death For I say not thus as my resolution Father deliuer me from this houre but Father glorifie thy name And Epiphanius k Epipha li. 2. Heres 69. What shall I say Father speaking by way of preparation and dubitation 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 This sayth Christ I will say but therefore came I into this houre For he came not against his will but willingly Theophylact l Theophylact. in 12. cap. Johannis For this cause sayth Christ came I into this houre that I might suffer death for all He teacheth vs very plainly by this that though we be troubled and perplexed with it yet we should not flie death for the truth For I sayth he am troubled being a true man and permit mans nature to shew it selfe yet do I not say to my Father that he should saue me from this houre but what say I Father glorifie thy name The later Writers of no meane iudgement allow the same sense Erasmus thus rendreth the summe of Christes words m Erasm. paraphra in cap. 12. Johannis I finde my soule troubled for the day of my death now approching And what shall I say For the loue of mine owne life shall I neglect the life of the world By no meanes I will applie my selfe to the will of my Father Mans weaknesse troubled with feare of death may say vnto him Father if it be possible saue me from this instant danger of death But Loue desirous of mans saluation shall presently adde Nay ra-rather if it be expedient let death which I desired come for somuch as wittingly and willingly by the leading of the spirit I haue offered my selfe to die These words n Bullingerâ—… in ca. Joh. 12. Bullinger citeth and calleth an excellent explication of that text Gualter in like maner o Gualteruâ—… homilia 118. in 12. ca. Johannis This is as if Christ had sayd Let no man thinke me as a cowardly captaine to exhort others to patience and constance being my selfe safe from danger For death approcheth me and that so cruell and bitter that the very remembrance thereof troubleth my soule What then shall I say when amongst men there is no hope To thee ô Father I turne saue me from the houre of this terrible death But what do I say Euen therefore came I into this houre What other thing then shall I aske ô Father but that thou shouldest gloriâ—…ie thy name Doe all these learned Interpreters wrest this text and speake they against all reason without considering the nature and frame of the wordes or doe they out of the very frame and force of the wordes deduce Christes resolution to be this Father glorifie thy name notwithstanding my former words since I came of purpose into this houre not to be freed from it The first words p Defenc. pag. 129. li. 36. pretend a plaine resolution or at least a great inclining towards resolution If a plaine resolution then Christ contradicteth himselfe with a plainer resolution in the end which to affirme of the Sonne of God aduise you whether it be blasphemous or no. As for an inclination since Christ made no idle deliberation but spake out of his naturall humane affection abhorring death that maketh wholly with my speech affirming that howsoeuer the sense of nature in Christ did incline to auoid death in this debating with himselfe yet he presently refused it by saying But therefore came I into this houre and fully resigned it when he sayd Father glorifie thy name which resolution of his God ratified with his owne voice from heauen I haue glorified it and will glorifie it q Defenc. pag. 130. li. 10. Hence I reasoned effectually before but no where you answere it If Christs such suffeings in his soule were ordained of God for him then certainly indeed he did suffer the same Certainly indeed a man shall scant meet with such another that disdaineth all mens reasons and interpretations besides his owne and when he commeth to conclude any thing can hardly discerne an Owle from an Eagle Here is a profound argument made for your hell paines that Christes soule was troubled with the foresight and remembrance of his death on the Crosse ergo God ordained that certainly and indeed he should suffer in his soule the paines of the damned Children in their cradles if they could prattle would easily match the goodnesse of this reason and other answer as it needeth none so it shall haue none for me how effectuall soeuer this fansie seemeth vnto you r Defenc. pag. 130 li. 17. Further you except that this was feare of eternall death which caused in
z Defenc. pag. 134. li. 33. Eternall continuance in hell paines is not of the essence or nature of hell tormâ—…nts So haue you said page 12. though page 53. as you often quote it there is no such thing but euen there also haue I shewed that this you say out of your owne braine the Scriptures affirme no such thing Secondly I answered you that the horror of the paines of the damnâ—…d did admit no ioy for in hell I hope there is no ioy Christ then by your owne doctrine hauing constant continual exceeding generall ioy was neither in the true paines nor in the true terrors of hell vnlesse in defence of your deuices you will now make your new heauen and your new hell to be all one For ioy in the holy Ghost you directly make to be the substance of heauenly bliâ—…ie Now if in Christ and all his members you put at one and the same time the true terrors of hell and the true ioy of the holy Ghost what misse you of mixing heauen and hell at one instant in Christ and all the faithfull A third replie I gaue in that very place to this obiection which you say I neither doe nor can answere and that was a Serm. pag. 135. li. 3. since it is no where witnessed in the Scriptures that Christ suffered the paines of hell why striue you to establish a meere conceit of men neither written nor spoken before our age All these are no answeres with you and only because you haue deuiced a new hell from the immediate hand of God with which you delude as your maner is all that the Scriptures speake of the paines of the damned But glory not in your deuice to inuent a new faith it is as much sinne as to renounce the true Christian faith which indeed is auncient and in substance as old as the Scriptures since they serue to testifie from the beginning Gods blessed will and promise of saluation vnto man through the death of Christ which God first named the Serpents biting the heele of the womans â—…eed b Defenc. pag. 135. li. After this you set vâ—…hemently against my last argument that Christ suffered not in some sort the death of the soule first if we should speake strictly after the manner of death in the bodie then no man is so mad or foolish as to say that any mans soule can die at all that is want life and sense as a dead bodie doth You be come now to the vpshot of all your defence and doctrin whether the Scriptures do any where teach that Christ died the death of the soule or the second death for our redmption and here shall we find nothing but an heape of words broched out of your braines and so tempered with your conceits that when you haue all said you say nothing with any substance or shew of holy Scripture You disclaime that the soule is at any time deuoide of life and sense as dead bodies are as if that were ought to your purpose but yet the death of the soule hath a resemblance and concordance with the death of the bodie as spirituall things may haue with corporall And therefore as the bodie being once dead wanteth all sense and motion which are the parts or effects of life from the soule quickning the bodie so the soule being dead to God who is her life hath no sense nor motion of Gods grace in this life nor sight nor hope of glory in the life to come but destitute of the one here on earth which is grace hath no desire nor feeling of God and in the next world depriued of all possibilitie of glory is subiected to eternall and intolerable miserie from the presence of God d Defenc. pag. 135. li. 24. Such a death as immortall soules are subiect vnto is Gods separation from them this is two fold the first death and the second death as the Scripture speaketh The first is the separation of them from Gods grace which is in this life by sinne raigning in them The soule loaden with sinne in this life is not vtterly dead so long as it retaineth any sense or motion of Gods grace So that sorow for sinne ioyned with any desire of true repentance is a plaine signe of life in the soule though sorrow for sinne without hope be plaine despaire and death of the soule And therefore the soule of man finding the danger of sinne and desiring to be deliuered from it yet liueth whiles she apprehendeth affecteth or seeketh the grace of God but if she want all sense of God by faith and motion to God by hope and desire she is wholy dead to God that is void of the life of God which is deriued from God vnto the soules of men As for the second death of the soule the Scriptures indeed speake thereof but you erre groslely in this second death the execution whereof alwayes followeth the first death as well of the bodie as of the soule though the guiltinesse and condemnation thereof by a mans owne conscience may be found heere in this life And therefore the second death by the open and euident wordes of the holy Ghost is called the d Reuel 20. lake of fire or the e 19. 21. lake burning with fire and brimstone which is not in this life And consequently your next collection that the second death is Gods leauing them in the feeling of the most sharpe and most vehement paines inflicted by Gods iustice for sinne is as false as it is defectiue not agreeing in one word with the tenor of the sacred Scriptures which you pretend to follow f Defenc. pag. 1â—…5 li. 30. This last kind of death is so called and named in many places of Scripture The second death is expresly named but in foure places of the Scripture The first g Reuel 2. v. 11 Be thou faithfull to death and I will giue thee the crowne of life He that ouercommeth the first death shall not be hurt of the second death The second h Reuel 20. v. 6 blessed and holy is he that hath part in first resurrection of the soule vnto the life of grace on such THE SECOND DEATH hath no power The third i Ibid. v. 14. Death and hell were cast into the lake of fire THIS IS THE SECOND DEATH The fourth k Reuel 21. v. 8 The fearefull vnbeleeuing the abominable and murderers and whoremongers and sorcerers and idolaters and all liers shall haue their part in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone WHICH IS THE SECOND DEATH Saue in these places the second death is neuer expresly named in the Scriptures and in these most apparantly the second death followeth after the death of the bodie and is euerlasting And neither on Christ who is the first resurrection vnto grace and the second resurrection vnto glorie nor on any of his members hath the second death any power by the plaine words of Saint Iohn
death for which we must not pray But whosoeuer is borne of God sinneth not that sinne and so neither Christ who was the true Sonne of God nor any of his chosen who are the children of God by adoption can sinne that sinne nor die that death because he that is begotten of God liueth by God who is eternall life to all that know him and cleaue vnto him without separation If then the sinnes of the Elect be not vnto death but such as we in pietie may and in charitie must pray for consequently the death of the soule here meant by Saint Iohn is such as is not incident to any of the sonnes of God and so not the temporall hell which you communicate to Christ and his members Heere are your eight places of Scriptures proouing as you pretend the second death of the soule which you ascribe to Christ in euery one of which saue the first and second there can be no question but euerlasting damnation is intended and in those two the guiltinesse of eternall death which is due to sinne may be comprised in the name of death which the Apostle iustifieth when he sayth t Rom. 5. v. 12. The offence of one came on all men vnto condemnation which is in effect that he sayd before Death went ouer all men forasmuch as all men haue sinned But that any of these intend your temporall hell brought into this life not by snares and feares working on the soules of men but by substance and essence and not eternall death in hell fire with the Diuell and his Angels you nor all your adherents shall euer be able by any ground of holy Scripture to make it appeare And therefore your presuming it vpon the bare shew of places concluding no such thing is a pestilent intrusion vpon the word of God whiles you sticke not to couple your conceits which are false and erroneous with his vndoubted and vndefiled trueth x Defenc. pag. 135. li. 31. First ordinarily and commonly it belongeth only to the damned wherewithall are the ordinarie accidents and concomitants desperation induration vtter darknesse c. with perpetuitie of punishment and that locally in HELL Generally and truely the Scriptures neuer vse the name of the second death but for the lake burning with euerlasting fire into which the Diuell and all the Reprobate shall be cast and whatsoeuer you otherwise pretend is your owne absurd deuice without the Scriptures and against the Scriptures to keepe your doctrine from open derision and detestation And since your selfe acknowledge that this is the ordinarie and vsuall doctrine of the Scriptures it shal be needfull for your Reader to hold you to that till you fully proue your extraordinarie deuice by the same Scriptures by which the other is euidenly confirmed and so much openly confessed by you y Defenc. pag. 135. li. 36. In this sense the Fathers generally do take it where they denie that Christ suffered the death of the soule and so do we If your cause haue so little holde in the Scriptures it hath lesse in the Fathers who in the necessarie worke of our redemption thought it sacriledge to say any thing that was not apparently proued by the Scriptures And as you light not on a true word when you come to deliuer vs the mysteries of your new hell so this is patently false that the Fathers generally take the death of the soule for eternall damnation only when they denie that Christ died the death of the soule They speake as the Scriptures leade them and confessing two deaths of the soule as the Scriptures doe which are sinne excluding all grace and the wages of sinne euen euerlasting damnation they generally denie that Christ died any death of the soule and haue for confirmation of their doctrine therein the whole course of the sacred Scriptures concurring with them x Defenc. pag. 135. li. 37. Secondly the death of the soule or the second death may be extraordinarily and singularly considered namely to imply no more but simply the very nature and essence of it You broach two apparent and euident vntrueths which you make the whole foundation of your presumptuous errour First that either Christ or his Elect in this life did or do suffer the very nature and essence of the second death Next that the Scriptures do singularly and extraordinarily reserue that kinde of second death for Christ and his members Shew either of these by the word of God before you make them grounds of your doctrine or els any meane Reader may soone conceiue you meane to teach no trueth confirmed in the Scriptures but a bolde and false deuice of your owne which you would extraordinarily intrude vpon the word of God a Defenc. pag. 136. li. 5. This is a death to the soule as before we haue shewed according to this sense the Scriptures and Fathers before noted may rightly be vnderstood not to denie it in Christ. When you glaunced before at the death of Christes soule you prayed vs to haue patience When the Defender shouâ—…d proue the death of Christs soule he sayeth bee hâ—…th proued it already till you came to the place where we should receiue a reasonable satisfaction and now you are come to the place where you should make iust and full proofe thereof you send vs backe againe and say you haue shewed it before What meaneth this doubling and deceiuing of your Reader but that you would seeme to haue many proofs when indeed you haue none and therefore you post vs to and fro to seeke for that we shall neuer finde In the 113. Page of this Defence you went about by your miserable misconstruing of certaine wordes vsed by some of the Fathers to enforce a shew of a death on the soule of Christ but against the haire as there I haue proued and therefore stand not on your former vnfortunate aduentures but either heere make proofe by the Scriptures that Christ died the death of the soule or leaue prating and publishing it so confidently as you and your adherents do for the chiefe part of mans redemption The Scriptures and Fathers you say before noted may rightly be vnderstood not to denie it in Christ. Is this all you haue to say for the death of Christes soule that the Scriptures and Fathers may be vnderstood not to denie it The Scriptures must affirme it before you can make it any point of Christian religion or part of our reconciliation to God b Rom. 10. Faith is by hearing and hearing by the word of God and not by not denying If that be your course to put any thing to the Creed which you list to say the Scriptures doe not denie you may quickly haue a large Creed containing all things which the Scriptures abused with your figures and wrested to your fansies shall not in expresse words as you thinke denie c Defenc. pag. 136. li. 9. Moreouer let it be obserued that if we had no proofes at all
all his Disciples to feare him euen God y Luc. 12. who after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell Shall we thence inferre by your diuinitie that God will cast all the faithfull into hell because he hath power so to doe which they must feare z Philip. 2 Finish your saluation with feare and trembling saith the Apostle Shall we therefore neuer be saued because we must alwayes tremble and feare vnder the mightie hand of God Vnder the same hand of God migh Christ feare and tremble not doubting of his saluation nor distrusting his Fathers loue but knowing that the hand of God was Almightie and able to impose farre greater paine on his bodie then his humane flesh was able to beare It is therefore due to Gods power from all the faithfull and was likewise from Christes manhoode for men to be afrayd of the strength of Gods hand when he ariseth to punish sinne though when and how he will doe it we may not or cannot determine And if we should graunt that Christs flesh euen thus feared the power of Gods hand that was able to keepe him from death and to inflict what paine pleased him you are no whit the nearer to your new found hell or to your second death of Christs soule which you labour to deriue from these words of the Apostle to the Hebrewes But to let the reader see how rashly rudely you conclude what you list out of the Apostles words without any sure ground The word which all this while you haue taken to import a coufused and perplexed feare in Christ hath no such signification in the Greeke tongue and in this place of the Apostle by the iudgement of the ancient and best learned interpreters of all ages that are not infected with this new fansie is taken for reuerence or a religious feare of God Of which signification there can be no question with any man that is meanely learned And albeit some fauouring your fansie haue sough farre and neere for examples where 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 might signifie a painefull and amazing feare yet find they none neither in prophane nor sacred writers but only a carefull feare to decline euill or a religious feare honoring God to be the true force of that word How prophane men vse the word with that I haue elsewhere sayd this may suffice Diogenes Laertius deliuering the decrees and opinions of the best philosophers saith of them they affirme a 〈◊〉 de 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 i. 7. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that 〈◊〉 carefulnesse is contrary to feare as being an honest and reasonable declination of euill 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and that a wise man is neâ—…er amazed with feare but wary to decline euill Saint Ierom confesseth as much among Christians b 〈◊〉 li 3 〈◊〉 5. â—…pist â—…d 〈◊〉 He that feareth hath paiâ—…e and is not perfect According to which signification of feare seruants haue the spirit of bondage in feare There is another kind of feare named by the Philosophers 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and with vs it may be called 〈◊〉 though this doe not fully match the force of the word The Prophet Dauid knew tâ—…e 〈◊〉 of the perfect when he said nothing wanteth to them that feare the Lord. Of Simeon that tooke Christ in his armes when he was brought to the Temple by his mother Saint Luke saith he was a iust man 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and one that religiously feared God So of those 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 2. that buried Steuen the Martyr he saith d 〈◊〉 8. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 certaine mâ—…n Fâ—…ARING GOD caried Steuen to bee buried And in the twelfth of this Epistle the same Apostle vseth the very word which he applied before to Christ for the common duetie of all the godly e Hebr. 12. Let vs haue grace by which we may serue and please God with reuerence 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and a religious feare Which is M. f 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in 12. ca. epistolâ—… ad Hebreos Bezaes owne interpretation of that place howsoeuer he swarue from it in the formâ—…r words of the same Epistle Neither doth the Syriack translation any thing helpe him since the word dechalta which in the fift Chapter is affirmed of Christ in the 12. Chapter of the same Epistle and indiuers other places of the new Testament is by the same translator referred to al Christians as expressing a generall duty belonging to God And therfore there is no need why any man should translate the one otherwise then he doth the other specially the whole Greeke and Latin Church concurring in one and the same signification and exposition of the word which is a better precedent to follow then any one mans translation And where some others would take aduantage of the Greeke preposition 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifiâ—…th for as well as from signifying alwayes from and not for it is an euident ouersight in them abusing their skill to maintaine their will more then trueth enforceth For 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the new Testament and with the Septuagint noteth vsually as well for as from In the 14. of Saint Matthewes Gospell when the disciples saw Christ walking on the waters at the fourth watch of the night and approching the ship wherein they were they cryed g Matth. 14. vers 26. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for feare The souldiers likewise that kept the Sepulchre when they saw the Angell that rolled away the stone and sate on it they were h Matth. 28. vers 〈◊〉 astonished 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for feare and became as dead men Zacheus by reason of his low stature could not see Iesus i Luc. 19. v. 3. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for the multitude or presse that was about him The Apostles that cast theiâ—… net into the sea at Christs commandement could not draw it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for the number k Ioh 21. v. 6. of fishes that were in the net Paul reporting the maner of his conuersion how he was stroken to the ground with a great light that suddenly shined on him from heauen sayth When I could not see l Acts 22. ver 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 because of the glory of that light I was led by the hand to Damascus The Sâ—…ptuagint in many places vse the same proposition in the same sense Israels eyes were dimme m Gen. 48. v. 14 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for age My bones sayth Iob are drie n Iob. 30. v. 30 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for heat You shall crie o Esa. 65. v. 14. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for griefe of heart and houle 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for affliction of spirit sayth Esay of the Iewes reiected Where the Septuagint doe make 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 equiualent to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with an accusatiâ—…e which noteth the cause of any thing Infinite are the examples that might be brought out
the death of the soule and so neglecting what you should prooue you vainly push against that which I doe not vphold And yet if we admit these cries and teares to be powred forth not for himselfe but for vs then might he most wofully bewaile our deserued destruction which was no lesse then euerlasting damnation of body and soule if he did not ransome and release vs from it To his fathers will Christ submitted himselfe in the garden but what he disliked in that cup which he named and how much thereof he tasted is knowen neither to you nor to me nor to any man liuing That it was very sharp we may iustly collect by his naturall dislike thereof but what degrees or sorts of paines were adherent to his passion is not for you or me to determine What he might suffer with piety patience and obedience to his father is aboue mans reach to define but the second death or the death of the soule if we follow the leading of the Scriptures and not fall to deuising a new hell and a new death of the soule to support our fansies are things that by no colour of Scripture can be confirmed howsoeuer you straine and stretch the word of God to find them there e Defenc. pag. 137. li. 28. And yet it was I grant the death of the soule or the second death that is simply the 〈◊〉 thereof Gods withdrawing himselfe from him in the paines and torments thereof Your grant is the ground of your doctrine besides that which you haue nothing els to beare the burden of your deuices But what a iest is this when you should iustly prooue and fully conclude your assertions to fall to granting of them whereas your graunt with me and with any man that is wise is not worth a grey goose quill Howbeit these are the best buttresses of your cause euen your owne violent conceits that force the Scriptures to your liking But Sir remember you are neither Prophet nor Apostle and so your granting of these nouelties may shew your owne gyddinesse it cannot preiudice the true and vndoubted rules of the Christian faith Hence it followeth inâ—…incibly that Christ indeed suffered sith thus he feared more then the meere bodily death euen the death of the soule For he could not I say thus feare but he must needes know that it was to come or might come vnto him If he but knew that it might come vnto him then it certainly did come vnto him at one time or another in his passion before he left the world Here is the prime and pride of your obseruations out of this place of the Apostle to the Hebrewes and except a man were out of his witts he would not reuell in this sort with such waterish and witlesse resumptions Palpable vntrueths you call inuincible certainties and trifles wherewith children will not be deceiued you obtrude to the whole Church of Christ as fortresses of their faith Christ feared ergo he suffered more then a bodily death ergo the death of the soule What he knew might come that certainly did come These be such bables that boyes in the street will deride them and yet you conceaue and propose them as Sapientiall and soueraigne collections But he that wilfully wandreth thinketh no way straighter then that he traceth and dreamers are often delighted with empty shadowes now if we take your owne translation the Apostle telleth vs that Christ was heard in that he feared ergo he did not suffer it and though it might come yet because he was freed from it certainly it came not and many things might come more then the death of the body and yet not the death of the soule If then you haue no stronger meanes to conclude the death of Christs soule then these the simplest Reader will soone perceiue that your reasons be as frigent as your humours be feruent and though there be fire in your mind yet there is water in your mouth for you truly conceaue or iustly conclude nothing f Defenc. pag. 138. li. 3. Sec. to the Hebrewes Christ abolished through death him that had the power of death that is the Diuell and so deliuered all them which for feare of death were all their life time subiect to bondage Heere I see no reason in the world but that the Apostle by the often repeating of death and by the naturall referring of it in one place as it were to the other doth vnderstand and signifie one and the same death altogether But it is the death of the soule which the Diuell hath power and execution of also the death of the soule sinnefull men were held in feare of all their life long It followeth then I suppose that euen through the death of the soule Christ abolished the Diuell and deliuered his children I know not whether your eies be open or your braines sound that you see nothing but what pleaseth your selfe And what if they be either so dimme or so dull that you see not the truth is that a reason that your ignorance or wilfulnesse must be the loadstone of our creed with such peeuish and priuate presumption would you preuaile against Scriptures Fathers and the whole church of Christ that what you doe not or will not see we must relinquish as false and erroneous to let you see if you be not blinded with preferring your fansies before the trueth of Christ that this is a lazie loose and lewd argument which heere you make take your owne maior or first proposition that Christ suffered the selfe same death which he abolished whereof the Diuell had power and execution and whereof we were in feare being not redeemed all our life long and set this for the second proposition or assumption but it is most euident that the Diuell had power and execution of eternall death and to the feare of euerlasting Destruction were we subiect all the time of our life before we were deliuered by Christ ergo Christ suffered eternall death and damnation in hell For he abolished that from the faithfull and thereof the Diuell had power and execution as also we were in feare and danger of that without the Redeemer What say you to this conclusion grounded on your owne collection and proposition see you the falsenesse and wickednesse thereof and yet if your assertion be true that Christ must redeeme vs with the same kind of death whereof we were in feare and bondage without him and abolish the Diuell with that verie death whereof he had power and execution the one is as strong as the other But who besides you would warble thus in so waighty matters True it is that the name of death compriseth all the kinds of death I meane of bodie of soule of both for euer and this chaine of death is inseparable and ineuitable where Christ doth not breake it By the malice of the diuell perswading sinne which is the losse of grace and death of the soule in this life came into the
these and such like actions and passions with the bodie For the force to doe and since to feele is from the soule and so in the death of the bodie the soule is partaker with the bodie not to lie dead and senselesse as the bodie doth but to feele the paine of death and suffer the separation from the bodie 〈◊〉 the effects of death appeare in the bodie But that the soule doth die when the whole compound of bodie and soule dieth is no consequent neither in Philosophie nor Diuinitie z Defenc. pag. 137. li. 20. The text heere speaketh as I iudge of the whole and intire sufferings of Christ. The text heere speaketh of death bereauing life which was after re-â—…stored when Christes bodie was againe quickned by the power of his spirit the rest of Christes sufferings during the whole time of his life are not comprised in the name of death otherwise Peter must haue sayd Christ was alwayes dead since his affections 〈◊〉 with circumcision if not before which is no part of Peters speach nor meaning yea rather it is repugnant to both since Peter saith Christ a 1. Peter 3. suffered once fâ—…r sinnes when he was put to death and not euer and alwayes whiles he liued on â—…arth b Defenc pag. 137. li. 35. Against this obseruation what pretended you some Scriptures palpably abused first Matthew where Christ speaketh of his Disciples that their spirit their inward regenerate man was ready to watch bâ—…t their flesh their corrupt Nature was weake and sluggish 〈◊〉 is this to Christs flesh and spirit If my authoritie were as good as yours and my learning as great I could say as you doe I iudge it so but if I shew not better reason for me to aâ—…firme those wordes Christ ment of himselfe then you doe or can that he ment them not of himselfe I am content your consistorian seeming shall goe before my laborious proouing my vse is not to relie too much on mine owne iudgement as you doe though I thanke God I can examine both your and other mens interpretations but when I finde a thing maturely and rightly considered and concoâ—…ded by the learned and auncient Fathers in matters of faith or exposition of the Scriptures I goe not easily from them Tertullian saith c Tertullianus de suga in persecutione Christ himselfe professed his soule was 〈◊〉 vnto death his flesh weake that he might shew to thee there were in himselfe both the substaâ—…ces of man by the propertie of heauinesse in the soule and weakenesse in the flesh Athanasius likewise d Athanasius de Passione Cruâ—…e 〈◊〉 A little afore his death Christ cried the spirit was willing but the flesâ—… weakâ—… that our aduersarie the diuell encountring him as a man might feele his diuine power Theophilus Alexandrinus e 〈◊〉 epistola Paschali prima contra Appollinaristas If Christ tooke onely the flesh of man and not the soule of man why in his Passion did he say the spirit is prompt but the flesh weake Ambrose f Ambros. ls 4. in 〈◊〉 ca. 4. If Christes body had beene spirituall he would not haue said the spirit is prompt but the flesh is weake Heare the voice of either in Christ as well of weake flesh as of a readie spirit The auncient writer among the works of Saint Austen g De Salutaribus documentis ca. 64. The trueth it selfe our Lord Iesus Christ saith of himselfe the spirit is prompt but the flesh weake Cyrill h Cyrill Thesauri li. 10. ca. 3. Though Christ abhorred death as a man yet as a man he refused not to doe the will of his Father and his owne as God and therefore he said the spirit is prompt but the flesh is weake Vigilius i Vigilius contra 〈◊〉 li. 5. ca. 4. What is that wherein he suffered and tried weakenesse but mans nature whereof he said at the time of his passion the spirit is prompt but the flesh weake tasting of which infirmitie he learned to helpe the weake Seuerianus k Seuerianus contra Nonatum citatur a 〈◊〉 contra 〈◊〉 hem My soule saith Christ is he auic vnto death And interpreting to what his Passions pertained the spirit saith he is ready but the flesh weake Remigius l 〈◊〉 in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 26. 〈◊〉 a Tho. 〈◊〉 in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 In these words Christ sheweth that he tooke true flesh of the Virgine and that he had a true soule Wherefore he now saith that his spirit is ready to suffer but that his weake flesh feareth the paine of his Passion Euthymius m 〈◊〉 in 〈◊〉 My God my God said Christ why hast thou for saken me that is why hast thou left me in this feare knowing my spirit is ready but my flesh weake What thinke you had I no more reason to say as I saide then you haue to denie it where also you may note that all these learned Fathers refuse your lame obseruation as well as I doe and so you had neede seeke some better authoritie then your owne or perhaps some one that 〈◊〉 you with this rule seruing to none other end but to helpe forward your hell fansie n 〈◊〉 pag. 139. li. 1. Thinke you that Christs soule was willing to suffer as God had appointed but that his flesh resisted veâ—…ily so you seeme heere to vnderstand and it is as likely as your applying of flesh and spirit to Christ in your pag. 104. Put on your visard before you take in hand to controle the iudgement of so many Fathers Your pride is greater then your wit in this and most things that passe your pen. Is it such newes to you for me or for them to say that Christes flesh was weake that is not so ready to suffer as was his soule seeth your mastership no difference betwixt weakenesse and resistance specially when in comparison of the readinesse of the spirit the flesh is said to be weaker that is lesse ready to suffer then the soule doth not the Apostle applie the same word vnto Christ when he saith Christ was o 2. Cor. 13. crucified through weakenesse and long before the Prophet said of Christ p Esa. 53. He is a man full of sorrowes and one that hath experience in infirmites So that your cholor was kindled without cause when you strooke such an heat with my saying that Christs flesh was weake the Prophet foretold he should be a man full of sorrowes and well acquainted with infirmities The vntrue conceit which you challenge in the 104. Page of my Sermons touching Christes flesh where I sayd it must haue force to cleanse and quicken when you impugâ—…e I will defend in the meane time it may serue I savd nothing but what our Saâ—…iour sayd before me q Iob. 6. vers 56. 54. He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my bloud dwelleth in me and I in him he hath eternall life and I will raise him vp at the last
of the Christian faith would any man in his right wits haue asked as Austen doth Who dare auouch it He discusseth the place of S. Peter and when he commeth to those words Christ was quickened in the spirit or by the spirit he resolueth this cannot be spoken of Christs humane soule because that which was afterwards quickened was first mortified and therefore we could not say that Christs humane spirit or soule was restored to life except we first yeelded that it was before subiected to death Now that Christs soule was euer dead who durst auouch it The reason why Christs soule could neuer die he rendreth thus for that the Scriptures acknowledge no death of the soule in any but sin and damnation to neither of which the soule of Christ could be subiect x August epist. 99. Certè anima Christi nullo mortificata peccato vel damnatione punita est quibus duabus causis mors animae intelligi potest Surely the soule of Christ was neither dead with any sin nor punished with damnation which are the two waies how the death of the soule may be possibly vnderstood This collection of S. Austins out of the Scriptures touching the death of the soule is most sound and cannot be shaken with all your shewes and shifts talke of ordinarie and extraordinarie as long as you will That standing good which yet we see immooueable for all your battery it followeth ineuitably that Christ ne did ne could die the death of the soule ne may any man defend it without apparent falsity and impiety What proofes you haue profered against S. Austins conclusion let the Reader iudge I must confesse my selfe very blind if he see any for I see none and therefore not only S. Austins words but his reasons out of holy Scripture stand firme and hold you fast to the grinding stone being no way as yet counteruailed or controled but with your vaine speaches and most vnlearned euasions y Defenc pag. 142. li. 2. Nay according to Austins owne definition of the soules dying it will easily appeare that Christes soule may be said to haue suffered some kind of death Mors est spiritus deseri a Deo The death of the soule saith he is Gods for saking of it but the Scripture saith God did forsake him for a season yea the Fathers also agree fully therevnto Therefore by Anstins definition largely and rightly taken Christ may be said in some sense to haue died in soule From your shifts you returne againe to your proofes and neither barrell is better herring The maior you thinke is Austins the minor is Christs owne words and what trow you should hinder the cōclusion This reason hath but three of your wonted flowers I must not say faults the maior is larger then Austen euer ment and the minor no way matcheth it except you quite alter the words of Christ and the conclusion commeth nothing neere to your purpose Examine them in order Not euery forsaking of the soule is death for the godly often in the Scriptures complaine as I haue shewed that they are forsaken of God when yet their soules liue but as life is repugnant to death and God is the life of the soule so till God haue vtterly forsaken the soule she is not dead Whiles she retaineth any fellowship of grace with God who is her life she is not dead because she partaketh with life As then death is the vtter priuation of life so God must vtterly forsake the soule before she can be pronounced to be dead and that kind of forsaking is indeed the death of the soule in this life So that your maior if euer you will come neere S. Austins meaning must be the death of the soule is Gods vtter for saking of the same And that thus you must conster S. Austins words appeareth euery where by his z In Psal. 70. in Iohan. tract 47. de verbis Apost Serm. 30. comparison with the death of the bodie which is not dead till the soule be vtterly departed from it For as the body which hath in it any power or presence of the soule is not dead but liuing so the soule that hath any communion with God who is her life can not be truely sayd to be dead but as yet to haue life Were you no Diuine but a plaine Sophister reason teacheth you so to vnderstand S. Austins words for where life and death be priuatiues as well in the soule as in the bodie the one hath no place till the other be vtterly quenched He is not blinde that hath any sight nor deafe that hath any hearing the priuation vtterly excludeth the habite neither is the soule dead that hath any force or effect of life in her and consequently not euerie forsaking but onely an vtter forsaking of God is the death of the soule heere in this life Your minor then should be that Christes Soule was vtterly forsaken of God which are not the words of Christ on the crosse nor any way consonant to them yea the verie entrance to that speech when Christ saide My God my God doth prooue the quite contrarie a Matth. 22. God is not the God of the dead but of the liuiug Then directly by the plaine wordes of Scripture when Christ said My God my God his soule confessing God to be his God was liuing and consequently the wordes following why hast thou forsaken me doe net prooue the death of the soule vnlesse you make the Sonne of God so vnwise as not to vnderstand what he said or so amazed that he marked not his owne speech which with you perchance is no absurditie but with me it is a wicked and vnchristian impietie Christes wordes therefore import that he found a kinde of forsaking but not that his soule was forsaken of the trueth grace or spirit of God these be blasphemies to auouch and no points of pietic nor that he was vtterly or altogither forsaken which onely is the death of the soule And against this wresting of Christes wordes from their right sense how many testimonies of scriptures and Fathers haue I sormerly brought all which you trippe ouer with a light foote and make as though you felt them not You haue beene told b Galat 3. the iust shall liue by saith So that if Christ wanted not faith he could not choose but liue in soule Againe c 1. Iohn 4. God is 〈◊〉 and he that dwelleth in loue dwelieth in God Christ then must either haue life or want loue for the loue of God is the life of the soule Farder the Spirit of God is the d Rom. 8. spirit of life that quickneth the soule yea then 〈◊〉 thereof is life and peace Then must you take from Christ the spirit of God with all the gifts and graces thereof before you can depriue the soule of Christ from life What an hellish heape of blasphemies are here before you can affirm that Christs soule was dead according to the Scriptures
death haue had place in him if he had not had a mortall bodie And againe o Idem de incarnat verbâ—… Death of it selfe could not appeare but in the bodie and therefore Christ put on a bodie that finding death in his bodie he might abolish it Ambrose p Ambros. de fide ad Gratianum li. 3. ca. 5. Who is he that would haue vs partakers of his flesh and bloud Surely the Sonne of God Quomodo nisi per carnem particeps factus est noster aut PER QVAM NISI CORPORIS MORTEM mortis vincula dissoluit IN QVO NISI IN CORPORE expiaâ—…t peccata populi IN QVO PASSVS EST NISI IN CORPORE Sicut supra diximus Christo secundum carnem passo How was he made our Partner but by flesh and by what death other than the death of his bodie did he dissolue the bands of death WHEREIN BVT IN HIS BODIE did he expiate the sinnes of the people WHEREIN BVT IN HIS BODIE did he suffer As wee sayd before Christ suffered in the flesh Chrysostom q 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 r We died a double death therefore we must looke for a double resurrection Christ died but one kind of death therefore herose but one kind of resurrection Adam died body and soule he died to sinne and to nature In what day soeuer ye eat of the tree said God ye shall die the death That very day Adam did not die in which he did eat but he then died to sinne and long after to nature The first is the death of the soule the other is the death of the body For the death of the soule is sinne or euerlasting punishment To vs men there is a double death and therefore we must haue a double resurrection To Christ there was but one kinde of death for he sinned not and that one kinde of death was for vs. He owed no kind of death for he was not subiect to sinne and so not to death Therefore he as free from sinne rose but one 〈◊〉 We as gâ—…e of sinne die a double death and so must haue a double resurrection This Sermon whence these words are taken thought it be not amongst Chrysostomes printed Volumes yet besides that it was published in print by FRONTO DVCâ—…VS it is found in the written Greeke copie of Chrysostom lying in New Colledge Librarie in Oxford whence these words are taken little differing from the printed copie Out of Augustine though much be sayd and much more might be yet thinke I not meet to omit some places as well for the cleerenesse as the rarenesse of them some of them being sufficiently witnessed vnto vs by others though they be not found at this day among his printed works And first of those that are found s August de 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 4 ca. 3. Vtrique rei nosâ—… id est animae corpori medicina resurrectione opus crat Mors animae impiet as est mors corporis corruptibilitas Sicut enim anima Dco deserente sic corpus anima deserente nâ—…ur vnde illâ—… sit insipiens hoc exanime Huic ergo DVPLAE MORTI NOSTRAE Salâ—…or impendit SIMPLAM SVAM adfâ—…ciendam vtramque resuscitationem nostram in Sacramento exemplo praeposuit proposuit VNAM SVAM Neque enim fuit peccator aut impâ—… vt et tanquam spiritu mortuo in interiori homine renouari opus esset sed Indutus carne mortali EA SOLA MORIENS EA SOLA RESVRGENS EA SOLA NOBIS ad vtrumque concinuit cùm in ea fieret interioris hominis sacramentum 〈◊〉 exemplum Either part of vs that is both soule and body needed curing and raising The death of the soule is impictie and the death of the bodie corruptibilitie As the soule dieth when God for saketh her so the bodie dieth when the soule for saketh it whereupon the one is soolish the other senselesse To this double death of ours our Sauiour applied his single death and to make a double resurrection in vs he preferred and proposed his one kind of death for a Sacrament and for a Precedent for he was no sinner or wicked person that he should need any renewing as one dead in spirit but putting on mortall flesh and dying in that ALONE and rising in that ALONE he fitted that ALONE to both our deaths placing therein a Sacrament for our inward man and an example for our outward So againe t Idem contra 〈◊〉 Arianum ca. 16. ca. 18. Sensit mortem Christus sicut omnes sentiunt qui moriâ—…nte carne mentibus viuunt c. Credo mortuum esse filium Dei illa quae secundum naturam generalis est cunctis non illa quae specialis est malis Christ selt death as all feele it who dying in the flesh liue in their spirits I beleeue the Sonne of God died that death which by Nature is common to all not that which is proper to euill men The words which the second Councell of Hispalis doth cite out of S. Austins writing against Maximinus are woorth the hearing though they be not now in his printed works as many other things are not which Bede and others alleage out of him u Concilium Hispalens 2. ca. 13. ex August aduersus Maximinum Vbi resurgit nisi in eo quod potuit cadere Vbi resurrexit nisi in eo vbi mortuus Quaere mortem in verbo nunquam esse potuit QVAERE MORTâ—…M IN ANIMA NVNQVAM IBI FVIT Quaere mortem in carne planè ibi fuit Et paulò pòst Quid miraris Nec mortua est anima nec verbum mortuum est CARO TANTVM MORTVA EST. Where was Christ raised but in that which might fall Wherein did he rise but in that wherein he died Seeke for death in his deitie it could neuer be there Seeke for death in his SOVLE IT NEVER VVAS THERE Seeke for death in his flesh there was it indeed And a little after Why doest thou maruell Neither was Christes soule dead nor his Godhead ONLY HIS FLESH DIED Neither want the same words in effect in his printed Sermons x In Iohannem tractat 47. Hoc suscitabatur quod mâ—…ur Nam verbum non est mortuum anima illa non est mortua That was raised in Christ which died The Deitie died not yea his soule died not y Ibidem Quid fecit mors nisi corpus ab anima separauit in morte sola caro est a Iudaeis occisa What did death in Christ more than seuer his bodie from his soule in death his flesh only was killed of the Iewes The councell it selfe adding of their own saith z Concilium Hispalens 2. ca. 13 Prophetia quoque in psalmis passionem Christi in carne sola sic asserit Foderunt manus meas pedes meos dinumer auerunt omnia 〈◊〉 Vbi non deitatis sed tantum
his power to be destroyed and ouerthrowen If you regard the Catechisme so highly as you pretend why slippe you from it in these or other points at your pleasure why obtrude you that to others as authorised which your selfe doe not admit indeed some men haue of late yeeres inclined to vehement and violent temptations offered to the soule of Christ in his sufferings and some to feares and horrors euen of eternall death as master Caluin and the Catechisme which you cite but if you may be suffered to shrincke from them at your liking neuer blame me if I doe not preferre them before all these fathers Howbeit to speake vprightly without wronging them I doe not see that either the Catechisme or master Caluin doe expressely defend the death of Christs soule or the second death but only the feare and horror not of a temporall hell as you haue distilled their infusion but of eternall death which you with might and maine reiect And surely if they did contradict the confession of all these fathers I would adhere to the primatiue church of Christ in matters of faith rather then to the deuices of late writers dissenting from themselues and others But touching the death of Christes soule I see no cause to depart from them since they define no such thing and therefore they aâ—…e idlely alleadged by you euen as the rest are by you proudly neglected And till you leaue this contemning of ancient Fathers and straining of later writers beyond their meaning I for my part thinke you worthie of no charge in the church of Christ neither of that you had wherein you sowed as much cockle as corne nor of that you may haue except you change your mind and learne to teach nothing to the people of God but what is warranted by the word of God c Defenc. pag. 142. li. 36. ` You say I should haue donne well to haue laied downe for a shew which is written in Easy he laied downe his soule vnto death Verily if I had it would haue made some shew I said indeed the Prophet Esay would make a better shew for the death of Christ soule then the Poet Terence whom only you produced for proofe thereof but such was then and still is your presumption that on your bare word you will pronounce what best pleaseth your fansie Howbeit the words of Esay are but a shew for the death of Christes soule since they exactly declare his bodily death to be the redemption of mankind For when the soule in the Hebrew tongue and in the old Testament is said to die either by the soule are ment the vegetatiue and sensitiue powers of the soule whereby the spirit of man is vnited to his body and which are quenched by death or by death is ment the distraction of the soule from the body which violence of death is common as well to the soule thrust from her body as to the body left without a soule That signification of the word soule the Apostle sheweth when he praieth the d 1. Thess. 5. whole spirit and soule and body of the faithfull may be kept blaâ—…lesse vnto the comming of Christ and saith e Hebr. 4. The word of God pearceth to the diuiding a sunder of the soule and the spirit And this sense of the word death the Scriptures expresse when they often mention that the soules of the godly doe or would die When Iosephs brethren would haue slaine him Ruben said vnto them f Genes 37. vers 21. Let vs not strike him in the soule that is let vs not kill him So Balaam seeing the glory of Gods people said g Numb 23. vers 10. Let my soule die the death of the Righteous and mine end be like his that is Let my soule depart in peace as the Righteous doe And least any thinke that Balaam spake he knew not what Sampson willing to end his life with reuenge of the dishonour done to God by the Philistines insulting at his bonds and blindnesse when he pulled the house on his and their heades said h Iudâ—… 16. vers 30. Let my soule die with the Philistines So Elias wearie of his life i 1. Kings 19. vers 4. desired for his soule to die saying Lord take my soule he ment from his body So Moses comparing a rape with murder saith k Deuter. 22. vers 26. This is as if a man should fall vpon his fellow and kill him in the soule And so Ieremie to Ierusalem l Iere 2. v 34. In thy bosome is found the bloud of the soules of the poore innocents Infinite places are there in the Scripture to like effect All which declare that the soule of man feeleth the death of the body by her departing from it and that the Prophet Esay when he said of Christ He m Esa. 53. v. 12 powred forth his soule vnto death Had no meaning but to describe Christs bodily death in which the soule is powred out from the body that is wholy separated from it The very phrase of powring forth the soule which must needes be from the body sheweth that the Prophet directly described the death of Christs body by which the soule is emptied and powred out of the body as out of a vessel replenished with it So that heere you haue as much hold for the death of Christs soule as you had before which is vtterly none n Defenc. pag. 143. li. 1. You earnestly affirme that this word signifieth soule or spirit in a proper sense Also how resolute are you forbidding to diuert from the natiue and proper significations of words but when the letter impugneth the grounds of Christian faith and charity In the Page 167. which you quote I neither spake of this place nor of this word and therefore your considering cappe was not on when you so much mistooke my words I know Nephesh is applied as well to beasts who haue no soules as to bodies once liuing but then dead And therefore of Nephesh I affirmed no such thing of S. Lukes words repeating Dauids and exactly distinguishing the soule from the flesh in Christ I did indeed auouch and still doe that we must not rashly depart from the proper significations of that and other words in the Scripture except the letter breed some inconuenience to faith or good-maners But what is that to this place where though the word Nephesh be granted properly to import the soule yet the rest sheweth it to be referred to the death of the body because the soule is powred forth of the body by the death thereof where before it was conteined and inclosed o Defenc. pag. 143. li. 15. The rather if we note that which followeth he was counted with sinners that is he was punished by God as sinners are punished and not by the Iewes only counted among Theeues You take vpon you to controle both the Prophet and the Euangelist who refer this misiudging of Chriâ—…t to men not to
others that beleeue the words of Paul are sufficient declaring this to be the very ground of the Gospell which hee receiued and deliuered that Christ e 1. Cor. 15. died for our sinnes according to the Scriptures and that he was buried and that hee arose the third day according to the Scriptures Whence by a full and faire coherence I collect that whatsoeuer died in Christ according to the Scriptures that was buried and raised the third day according to the Scriptures But it is more then manifest by the Scriptures that the soule of Christ was neither buried nor raised from death the third day but onely his bodie It is therefore as plaine to me by the all sufficient word of God that the soule of Christ died not for our sinnes according to the Scripture Your f Defenc. pag. 146. li 23. section touching materiall fire in hell I haue sifted at large before I shall not neede to say any more of it Your hemming in all the world on your side g Defenc pag. 147. li. 25. not some nor the most or best but euen all and euery one both Churches and writers in the world who are Protestants leauing none to vphold the doctrine which I deliuer but Papists Iesuites and Friars is as I told you before and must tell you againe an egregious lie so loud and leud that all the belles in London if they should iarre together could not yeeld a more offensiue sound That euery new writer speaketh of some feares sorrowes temptations or painefull sufferings in the soule of Christ neuer was nor is by me denied neither doe I in my Sermons take vpon me to determine what feares temptations paines and sorrowes Christ might and did suffer in his soule onely I added that we must beware we diminish not his faith hope loue confidence obedience patience and other gifts and graces of the spirit of God in the soule of Christ which the Scripture cleerely maketh to be without want defect or measure in him Shunning those sands I left euery man to his libertie to speake or write of Christes feares and sorrowes as farre as any circumstance of holy Scripture did duely enforce but the death of the soule the paines of hell and of the damned and the second death if any sought to fasten on the soule of Christ whosoeuer they were they did it by their owne surmises they had no warrant for any of those in the word of God except they tooke the paines of hell figuratiuely for great and intolerable such as sometimes the Godly in their humane weakenesse thinke and complaine they feele or feare though they come nothing neere the true paines of hell which cannot be endured in this mortall life and flesh by the euidence of nature and Scripture This being my constant course as my Sermons printed doe apparently witnesse what folly what madnesse is this so egerly and often to chalenge me for contradicting the whole world when it is but your immoderate greedinesse or giddinesse to thinke that everie man who writeth any thing of the feares or sufferings of Christs soule doth presently teach as you doe the death of Christs soule and the substance of the most vehement paines of the damned yea the second death to be a necessary part of our redemtion which Christ must suffer before he could ransome vs To censure mens priuate opinions I take no pleasure some men otherwise very learned and laborious haue dipped too deepe in that die as your selfe proue and pronounce by reiecting and reselling the horror of eâ—… nâ—… death in the soule of Christ though Master Caluin say Christ CONFLICTED therewith and the Catechisme auouch Christ was therewithall Pâ—…VSED If you may thus renounce and refute the first deuise and spredders as you thinke them of your proper and spirituall temptations and torments in the soule of Christ giue others leaue to receaue them no farder then they concurre with the Scriptures and with the primatiue church of God I find diuers men speake diuersly but very few and these late that light on the death of Christs soule and suddaine touches of the essentiall paines of the damned from the immediate hand of God which is your fresh and new deuice yea many that are caried away with the generall termes of Gods wrath and horror of his dreadfull iudgements against sin no way like the death of Christs soule and by speciall words debarre all mention of the second death in the sufferings of Christ and those as well English as others How false and soolish your vaunt is of all and euerie church and writer in the world that are Protestants to be of your minde will soone appeare to any that will reade and waigh the workes and wordes of Zuinglius Musculus Martyr Bullinger Aretius 〈◊〉 new 〈◊〉 teach the sufferings of Christs soule without the paines of hell Zanchius and of sundry others as sound in faith as ripe in iudgement as diligent in reading and sufficient in all kinde of learning as the best you can name either broching or bowing towards your late conceits who though they teach that Christ suffered in soule and body as I doe yet they assigne farre other sufferings in the soule of Christ then your essentiall paines of the damned I may not stand to make new discourses touching new writers a place or two shall serue for all and so an end of this matter Bullinger vpon those words of Esay Christ layd downe or made his soule a sacrifice sor sinne saith h 〈◊〉 in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 â—…3 To make his soule a sacrifice for sinne is to offer himselfe to be a sacrifice to Purge sinnes And he saith Christs soule and not his flesh not that the flesh of Christ was not offered for vs but that whole Christ body and soule offered himselfe to God and that willingly from his heart and of his owne accord and whole Christ was the expiation of our sinnes licet interim neque diuinit as sit passa neque anima mortua sed caro de quare beati Patres Vigilius Fulgentius contra Haereticos religiose disputarunt Though during that time neither his diuinty suffered NOR HIS SOVLE DIED but his flesh whereof the blessed fathers Vigilius and Fulgentius haue religiously discoursed against Heretickes Zanchius whose learned workes are to me in steed of many writers that are caried with faction and affection to vphold whatsoeuer some other men say though he could not for his often and great labours get time to finish his purposed treatise of mans redemption in that exact manner that he hath donne the rest yet commenting on S. Paules Epistles as occasion was offered he fully deliuereth the matter and manner of our redemption to be the only sacrifice of Christs body and bloud other propitiatory sacrifice for sinne then that he acknowledgeth none though he ascribe to the soule as well her sufferings as her sacrifice i Zanchius in ca. 2. epist. ad Philip. v. 8. All things
prepared which were requisite to offer the sacrifice for our sinnes behold the Priest with his sacrifice Christ with his body the body I say of him that was God who through voluntary obedience to his Father and most ardent loue to vs offered himselfe to God for a most sweet smell And where did he offer himselfe on the altar of the Crosse he suffered and died and that on the crosse k Ibidem Patitur in anima summam tristitiam timorem ignominiam in corpore summos dolores in singulis membris atrocissima flagella l Ibidem In ligno moritur vt mors per lignum ingressa in mundum per lignum tolleretur è mundo He suffered in soule most exceeding heauinesse feare and shame In his bodie most bitter paines in euerie member most grieuous scourges On the tree he died that as death came into the world by a tree so it might be taken out of the world by a tree m Idem in ca. 1. ad Ephes. v. 7. To that point how we are redeemed the Apostle saith by his bloud that is by 〈◊〉 sacrifice which consisted of the offering of his body deliuered to death and his bloud shed 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 fuit proprius modus this was the proper manner or onely way how we must be redeemed from the captiuitie of sinne and death This n Ibidem sacrifice which is often signified by the name of Christeâ—… bloud alone is that price of which the Prophets before and after the Apostles say we were redeemed by it For o Ibidem we are redeemed and haue remission of sinnes in Christ by his onely bloud p Idem de tribus 〈◊〉 1. cap. 5. test 9. This is euen he who by the onely sacrifice of his bodie should effectually clense the sinnes of the world And so againe The Apostle q Idem in ca. 1. ep ad Coloss. vers 22. expresseth the materiall cause of our reconciliation or the thing wherewith the Father reconciled vs to himselfe to 〈◊〉 by the oblation of the true and humane body of Christ deliuered to death for our sinnes This he meaneth when he saith in the body of his flesh through death For this body which was truely flesh and an humane body not simply but as it died is the matter of our reconciliation by that was reconciliation made He r Ibidem ioineth the body with bloud because both are the price of our reconciliation and by both were our sinnes clensed The Apostle then s Ibidem signifieth reconciliation was by the oblation of the body of Christ as by the true sacrifice sor sinne Zanchius speaketh not precisely you will say against the death of Christes soule In plainely and fully deliuering the matter and meane of our redemption to be the ONELY SACRIFICE of the body and bloud of Christ offered on the crosse to death he excludeth all other ransomes for our sins so maketh the death of Christs soule not onely to be superfluous to mans saluation but no meane of our redemption For in his iudgement t Zanchius de tribus Elohim part 1. li. 5. ca. 1 〈◊〉 10. Christ is the propitiatorie sacrifice for sinne not simply but as he died for vs with the shedding of his bloud and u Ibidem this ONELY SACRIFICE the shedding of Christes bloud vnto death God chose from euerlasting for the expiation of our sinnes and promised the same from the creation of the world and shadowed it with resemblances And touching the death of the soule if you teach as Zanchius doth you will presently finde it is open blasphemie to ascribe to Christ any death of the soule x Zanchâ—… tractat theologicâ—… de peccato originali ca. 4. thes 3 A triple death saith he God threatned to Adam for disobedience a spirituall death which was the separation of grace of the holy Ghost and of originall righteousnesse from the soule and body of Adam of which death in the Scriptures there is often mention made This death Adam died as soone as he did eate The second was a corporall death whereby the soule is seuered from the bodie To this Adam was presently vpon his eating made subiect though he did not straightwayes actually die The third is euerlasting death which is knowen to all of this death Adam was forthwith made guiltie This triple death was the punishment of his disobedience And vpon like occasion comparing the death of the soule and of the bodie he saith y Ibidem in ca. 2. epist. ad ephes vers 5. There is a triple death spirituall of the spirit or soule corporall knowen to all men and the third is that eternall death pertaining to bodie and soule wherewith all the wicked shall be punished in hell These all God threatned to Adam when he said what hower soeuer thou shalt eate c. thou shalt die the death For he straightway died in spirit or soule he incurred also the death of the bodie because he became mortall and was made guiltie of eternall death z Ibid. We haue rightly said death to bee the priuation of life and so of all the actions of life consisting in the separation of bodie and soule The like we must say of the spirituall life and death The spirituall life is a certaine spirituall and diuine force whereby we are mooued to spirituall and diuine actions by the presence of the holy Ghost dwelling in vs. The holy Ghost regenerating vs in this spirituall life is as it were the soule thereof And holy and spirituall thoughts holy desires holy actions both inward and outward are the operations of this spirituall life What then is the death of the spirit euen the priuation of the spirituall life and consequently of all spirituall and good actions in a man destitute of the presence of the holy Ghost which should quicken him comming from sinne and for sinne a Ibidem What strength hath a man dead in bodie to the actions of this life so neither can he that is dead in spirit or soule do any workes of the spirituall life Heere is a full and true description of the death of the spirit or soule of man which if you and your friends dare attribute to Christ then doth Zanchius fauour the death of Christs soule but if euery peece hereof applied to Christ be euident heresie and infidelitie then did Zanchius no way defend the death of Christes soule to be any part of our redemption and as for the second death he acknowledgeth none but that which is eternall and inflicted in hell on all the wicked Much more might be brought to like effect shewing the true and onely meane and matter of our redemption and reconciliation to be the only body and bloud of Christ yeelded vnto death for the ransome of our sinnes but I should make a new volume if I should stand thereon It may suffice in the iudgement of any reasonable man to refute the slaunderous
the holy Scriptures hath great weight with me There is as much difference betwixt this mans modestie and yours as there is betweene his learning and yours He durst not condemne the iudgement of the Fathers because it had probable grounds and was no way contrary to the Scriptures you auouch they had no shew of reason from any place of Scripture But your reward will be according for where he is with all and euen by your selfe reputed a sound and learned Writer no man will take you but for an vnsound and vnlearned Boaster I haue largely and plainly shewed Treat pag. 140. that this place speaketh not a whit neither of hell nor of Christes soule descending locally neither before his death nor after I◅ noteth only Christes sensible and apparent humiliation to the last and lowest point that is to the graue according to the Hebrew phrase which the Apostles frequented in their Greeke writings very much You haue shewed it as your maner is with your seeming saying that so you iudge but other proofs you offer none besides phrases and figures wherein you take vpon you to be very copious I say then Thus I say It seemes to me and Thus do I iudge these be your best demonstrations the rest is idle and vaine talke Three senses you make of these wordes but not one of them otherwise than by your owne authoritie Some thinke you say that this Greeke phrase to the lower parts of the earth is only a figure of speech a kinde of hypallage for the earth which is the lower part of the world If euery mans thoughts may stand for sound and true Expositions of the Scripture we shall haue many moe deuices than the world hath yet heard of but how proue you this in◅erting of the Apostles words by your supposed figures to be the true meaning of the holy Ghost Whatsoeuer pleaseth not your humour in the words of God if you may chop and change with figures of speech you will lea◅ little the◅e that shall not taste of your turnsall Others doe thank◅ that it may be taken as al◅ding to that metaphoricall Hebrew phrase tachtijoth erets the lower parts of the earth where Dauid meaneth his Mothers wombe And then wh◅re Dauid meaneth only Christs taking our flesh The Christian faith was neuer framed out of phrases or figures of speach vnknowen to the people and passing their vnderstanding neither did the Apostles so deliuer matters of doctrine as purposely ◅oluing them in euery darcke and doubtfull phrase that might be gathered out of Moses or of the Prophets this is the way to leaue nothing certaine in the booke of God though the wordes be neuer so plaine as long as any phrase or figure may peruert it If Dauid once by a metaphoricall kind of resemblance called the lowest part of his Mothers body where he was fashioned and framed tachijot◅ arets the bottom of the earth that is of his mother being earth or compared with the earth which is the common mother of vs all whence our bodies first came and whither they must returne or noted the strangenesse and secretnesse of his conception and formation in his mothers wombe by the bowels of the earth where mettals and minerals lie and grow in like manner What is this to the Apostles words who dallieth not heere with obscure phrases and metaphors as Dauid did for ciuilities sake calling his mothers wombe the bowels of the earth but expoundeth the words of Dauid cited immediately before that Christ ascending vp on hi◅ led captiuity captiue and gaue gifts vnto men That then which the apostle immediately addeth by way of a Parenthesis must tend wholy to the declaration and exposition of these words of Dauid that Christ ascending led captiuity captiue the later words that he gaue gifts to men he presently and largely sheweth how they were performed after Christs ascending to heauen And since Christs conception though it be an Article of our faith yet was wrought by the holy Ghost not as Dauids was neither was Christs body fashioned by degrees first in seed then in bloud after in flesh as Dauid confesseth his was but after a more strange and wonderfull manner as the Fathers both Greeke and Latin teach and during the time of his conception Christ did not lead captiuity captiue his mothers wombe can no way pertaine to the Apostles purpose in this place howsoeuer you or some others would faine shew their deuices in making the Apostle hunt after strange and obscure metaphors out of Dauids words once vsed for good manners sake It seemes to me a very plaine Hebraisme expressing tachijoth erets which words are no where found for hell for the graue they are found Like to this is erets tachtith Ezechiel 31 where the seuerall circumstances doe plainly teach that the graue only is there ment and the condition of death the same sense manifestly hath another Hebrew phrase very like to this Sheol tachijah psal 86 and Sheol tachath Esa 14 where though many thinke hell is signified yet surely the circumstances doe conuince that the graue only is there ment this do I iudge that the descēding of Christ to the lower parts of the earth may be taken truly plainly as is agreeable to the Hebrew phrase whence surely this Greeke phrase ariseth namely for Christs humiliation vnto the graue Heere is your third exposition of the Apostles words which you call a plaine demonstration that this place speaketh neuer a word of hell nor of Christs descending thither but only of his graue and if these proud and vaine bragges may goe for proofes you will prooue any thing but you must come backe for all this hast and learne that trueth is not so lightly put from her holdfast as you suppose For setting aside your hypallages and metaphors which are nothing to the meaning of the Apostle in this place the ground which heere you lay that erets tachtith the lowest earth and Sheol tachtijah the lower Sheol are no where vsed for hell but euery where for the graue is false and full of rash resolution directly repugnant to the trueth of the Scriptures and the circumstances of those places to which you appeale And least the Reader should thinke I speake altogether out of mine owne head peremptorily and presumptuously as you doe he shall heare the iudgement of some of the eldest Rabbins and others well learned in the Hebrew tongue touching these phrases and then we will examine the circumstanccs of the texts themselues And because I would make but one labour of manie and the meaning of Sheoltachtijah the lower sheol and erets tachtith the lower earth cannot well be discerned vntill we see what sheol naturally and truely signifieth I will fir◅t examine the signification of sheol at which you and others so much stumble and then grow to consider of the places where those words are vsed and their circumstances Sheol properly signifieth the pitts or places vnder earth where the bodies or
significations of the same word in other places of Scriptures This therefore if you take not heed is a vaine ostentation of phrasiologie wherewith you thinke to make euery thing of any thing with your figuratiue and phrasitiue fansies Against this argument you say you haue one place Acts 2. 27. euen onely one where you thinke it is plaine that Christ saith God would not leaue his soule in hell That we haue or say wee haue but one place to prooue Christes descent to hell is a tale of your telling who seldome speake trueth but that you shall neuer with all the wittes and shifts you haue euert the vigour of this place that I say and you shall see by Gods grace I will pâ—…orme it But omit your Prefaces and goe to your proofes and then it will soone be seene where trueth is The Hebrew word controuersed is Sheól the Greeke Hades Now must the word Sheól and Hades needs signifie hell being applied to soules departed hence so indeed you auouch more confidently then truly and hâ—…reupon it seemeth you pawne the triall of this question You be so fine in your phrases that you can not frame your lippes to trueth I auouch indeed you can prooue no such thing and so I suppose it will fall out But in neither of these two pages which you quote doe I pawne the question on that issue and in the 312. by you cited in your margine I speake not a word of Sheol or Hades so well couched are your conceits that you cite things neither written nor ment Wee hope then when this proofe which you aske for against your opinion is shewed you will correct your opinion in this point Your proofes I feare will be so wide from the purpose that they will rather confirme then conuince mine assertion of Sheól but neuer make so deintie to bring foorth your choisest stuffe it will be some great onset that you make so many offers to it before you begin Let it be considered which the Psalmist hath of this matter What man liueth and shall not see death shall he deliuer his soule from the hand of Sheol Heere now the soule attributed to euery man liuing must be properly taken as well as in the former place Now then it is apparant that heere the soules of all men liuing both good and badde after death are appointed to Sheol For there is none that can possibly escape it saith the text Therefore in the Scripture sheôl and Hades applied to departed soules is not alwaies hell but the condition or place as well where the iust mens soules are after death as that where the damned are Heere is the Cannon that must craze the Creede and beate downe the walles of Christes Church but your deuices doe not deceaue mine expectation Set aside the wordes of the Psalmist which you violently draw to fit your dreames there is not one true nor likely word in all this reason First you say The soule attributed to euery liuing man must be properly taken you meane for his immortall spirit as well as in the former place where without question the soule of Christ as after death was seuered from his bodie This is a foolish and false position openly impugned by the Scriptures for the soule attributed to euery man liuing by the Scriptures importeth not only his life which by death is dissolued and brought to Sheol but also his senses desires and euen corporall affections and passions Of this can no man doubt that haâ—…h read any part of the Scriptures The soule is there sayd to hunger and thirst to lust to loath meats to eat and drinke to weepe to melt to suffer all violence to be strooken or pierced with the sword These things are attributed to the soules of men liuing by which not the substance of the soule but the affections and passions of the bodie that are common to vs with beasts are intended Much more then when the soule is sayd to haue bloud to die or not to be deliuered from the power of soâ—…ol are these things applied to the life of men which are most false of their soules once seuered from their bodies So that no man is able to deliuer his soule from the hand of Sheol but he must see death as the words next before do import but that Sheol after death shall possesse the soules of all men there is no such thing in the Prophets words by you produced The hand or power of Sheol which endeth this life sundreth the soule from the bodie that power of Sheol shall no man escape because it is appointed for all to die or as it is in your allegation to see death but what becommeth of their soules after death whether they be in Sheol or in Paradise this place expresseth not And therefore your interlacing those wordes after death of your owne authority besides the text sheweth that you affirme so much but the Psalmist sayth no such thing And because the Reader shall plainly see how lamely and loosely you conclude and cleane contrarie to the direct words of the holy Ghost euen in the Psalmes he shall heare the words of Dauid himselfe whether his soule after death should be subiected to the power of Sheol or no. Speaking of the foolish he sayth Like sheepe they lie in Sheôl death deuoureth them but God will deliuer my soule from the hand or power of sheol for he will receiue me Where first is a manifest contradiction to your maine collection out of the former place that the soules of all men good bad after death are appointed to Shâ—…l Secondly here is a full confirmatition of mine assertion that whose soules God receaueth they are not in Sheól But God receaueth the soules of his Saints their soules therefore are not in Sheól Neither is this confession to bee found in the Psalmes alone Salomon auoucheth the same Thou shalt smite thy child with the rod and shald deliuer his soule from Sheol Then are not the soules of all men in Sheol after death since the soule of a childe well nurtered and in time chastened shal be deliuered from Sheol And so shall the soules of all men that after death liue with God The way of life is on high for him that vnderstandeth to dâ—…line from Sheol belowe Life is on high Sheol is below the Saints then whose soules liue with God are freed from Sheol which is below To be in both places at once is impossible for one and the same part of man Then such as you graunt are in any part of heauen can by no meanes remaine in Sheol But the soules of the righteous are in a blessed rest with God and as Christ promised the thiefe that was crucified with him at least in Paradise They be therefore not in Sheol And as for the mirth that you make with me and Saint Augustine that O then this point of faith
is grounded on Austin it is his collection not the text without him that serues your turne you and your friends will neuer be able to ouermatch Saint Austins obseruation that he neuer found in any place of Scripture Inferi which is the word that is vsed in Latin for sheol to be taken in any good sense and much lesse to make good proofe by the word of God that the condition or place in which the soules of the Saints are after death is called sheol or hades since as I haue sufficiently shewed Sheol is opposite to heauen and to euery part thereof as the lowest and woorst place of abode to the highest and best which things if you canne glew together you shall quit your selfe to bee your craftes master But first you must note that we goe not about to prooue sheol or hades to be heauen We neuer thought it the more is your iniurie when you haue nothing to reproouâ—… yet with bitter reproches to disgrace me as you doe and that euen for this your owne meere conceit What time of the day is it I pray you Sir that you awake so lately out of your deepe and drowsie maze or sleepe choose which you will that you now begin in sadnesse to disclaime that you euer said or ment Sheol was or could be heauen or any part thereof Is it so many moneths agone that positiuely and publikely you affirmed Sheol and Hades in the Scriptures to BE THE PLACE where the iust mens soules are after death Were the sections of your booke framed so farre a sunder and so verie strangers ech to other that you forget it was a resolute position of yours or of some of your friends for you euen in the verie last section and but in the other side of the leafe that THE CONDITION OR PLACE WHERE IVST MENS SOVLES ARE AFTER DEATH was SHEOL and HADES and that which argueth your notable stupidity or folly reiecting so violently the inuention of Limbus which supposed the soules of the righteous deceased before Christ to be in Sheol and Hades as well as the soules of the damned you now come to tell vs that Sheòl and Hades is the place as wel where the iust mens soules are after death as that where the damned are You talke of wittie reasons to solace your selfe withall if you could tell how in trueth this stuffe better deserueth to be tawed with tearmes then to be refuted with reason since it hath neither ground nor proofe nor so much as concordance with it selfe Consider a word of like vse in Latin Defuncti signifying the dead may be applied generally to the soules deceased Yet I hope notwithstanding Limbus may be easily auoided Are defuncti none other but the damned onely in hell the word is properly generall signifying them that are gone hence certainly so doth hades and sheol All these the Latin the Greâ—… and the Hebrew words are indifferent and common in themselues signifying indeed no positiue thing properly but a meere priuation of this life You shall doe well to consider that you know not what you say but as a man out of trueth and tune you fall from one absurdity to another and trole out positions that are meere priuations of all sense and vnderstanding that such words as onely note the priuation of this life or leauing this world are common to all deceased and departed hence this Children know We striue not for that and so defuncti importing such as haue ended the course of this life and are gone from hence may serue as well for those that are with Christ in rest and blisse as for the rest that are in the paines and torments of hell but what is this to Sheol or hades or to the place where the one or the other are Is the PLACE where soules departing hence are receaued no POSITIVE THING with you but a MEERE PRIVATION who euer said so that was not meerely depriued of his witts the places where soules after this life are disposed are Paradise or as you say heauen and hell Are heauen and hell and the states of soules there no positiue things but meere priuations of this life if this be the best way you haue to aâ—…oid Limbus in faith my reason will soone conuince you to want more then witte You speake not of places you will say but of conditions If you did so your error were groâ—…e enough but by your leaue looke on your owne words you speake of the PLACE WHERE IVST MENS SOVLES ARE AFTER DEATH as well as of the condition and would you now shift your hands of both and say you ment a meere priuation of this life you would faine conuey your selfe to your old castel of comfort which are empty words and phrases best fitting your wrangling humour but we must pray you to conuince the Creed and expound the Scriptures with more then meere priuations and idle obseruations or els to let them stand in their former trueth and strength Who knoweth not that such as haue ended this life may be called defuncti or mortui the deceased or dead in that their bodies lie now in corruption though their soules be in peace and rest with God but what is that to the place or state in which they are after death which the Scripture maketh to be positiue though such a phrase-founder as you are would haue it nothing els but priuatiue Of Enoch and Elias who were translated hence with their bodies liuing it cannot be said they are dead because no part of them was or is subiected to death and yet are they gone from hence to a more blessed and happie life But Sheol in the Scriptures as we haue seâ—…e by the common and constant consent of Iewish and Christian Grammarians and expositors is a place vnder earth opposed to heauen as the lowest to the highest aâ—…d the word of God doth exactly confirme that assertion of theirs Moses Iob Daniâ—… and Esay teach that Sheol is q below Now aboue and beneath are positions of places and not differences of priuations And so likewise Ioâ—… Dauid Esaie and Aâ—… vse Sheol or the place moâ—… opposite to heauen Now if heauen be a poâ—… place and state so is Sheol though either of them import a priuation of this earthly life Gods ordinance being such that this life shall end or change â—…efore men goe to heauen or hell It is then a weake and waterish collection that because both the graue and hell which in the Scriptures are comprised in the name of Sheol haue in them the priuation of this life therefore Sheol properly noteth a meâ—…re priuation of this life and nothing els vnlesse you nourish this secret error in your bosome that the soules deceased sleepe and so haue neither positiue nor sensible ioy or paine but a meere want of this world In effect they are all one with Thanatos death but that Thanatos belongeth properly to
bodies of wilde beasts must returne to earth as to the place by the tenor and trueth of Gods iudgement appointed for all men Thou art dust and to dâ—…st shalt thou returne that is to the earth out of which thou wast taken and to which Iacob would descend mourning all the daies of his life for the losse of his sonne not meaning in Sheol to haue ioy with the soule of his sonne as you peruert his speech and sense for then he would haue gone to Sheol not mourning but reioycing Againe to follow our purpose good Ezechiah also looked for Sheol to be his habitation likewise after this life This cannot bee vnderstood of his carcasse rotting and wasting away to nothing in the graue and therefore endureth not as the word Dori my mâ—…nsion signifieth Therefore he meaneth it of his soules abiding els where Againe Ezechiah was a godly man therefore hell was not fit for him and he seemeth to insinuate that in the Land of the dead he might see the Lord whither he was to goe and that must needes bee in the place of blessed soules euen that which heere is noted by the word Shâ—…l You stumble still at the same stone that none of those thinges can be ment of the graue because the body rotteth and wasteth to nothing in the graue You must leaue these falshoods if you will but seeme to be a Diuine The bodies of the Saints can not bee raised from their graues if they be wasted wholy to nothing in their graues And if you follow this argument well whatsoeuer your name be that by this meanes vndermine the resurrection of the dead your wordes will broach an open heresie though you slily vrge them to establish your new found Sheol Wherefore I omit this desperate cauill as fighting rather against the faith then against the name of Sheol wherein mens bodies after death though turned to dust yet not to nothing doe still remaine Your next reason that the graue can not be called Dôr an habitation or a continuance is idle and vtterly mistaken by you as all the rest is For Dôr is the time of mans life heere on earth as well as a place of abode And what should hinder Ezechiah to say the time of my life is ended or the place of mine abode heere on earth is remooued or passed away Must it needes follow that he shall haue a time to liue in Sheol or a place for his soule to abide there as you absurdly vrge or that this habitation may not be said to be in the graue where his body lieth knowen to God though vnknowen to man These be miserable shifts to hale in your priuatiue positiue generall speciall station state place without place of your first found Sheôl For where before you auouched that Sheol signified indeed no positiue thing properly but a meere priuation of this life you be now come vpon confidence of these rather riots then reasons to resolue in plaine tearmes that the place of blessed soules where they see God is euen that which heere is noted by the word Sheol The place of blessed soules where God is seene I hope is first speciall to the godly not generall to good and bad Next it is positiue and not meerely priuatiue Thirdly it is peculiar to the soules of iust men not imparted as yet to their whole persons Fourthly it is not destruction it is saluation And lastly it is heauen or Paradise a part of the third heauen which you neuer thought to be Sheol These many contrarieties you haue contriued in lesse then two leaues hauing none other ground for all this but onely that the dead bodies of men turned to ashes and wasted to nothing as you defend can not be said to be any where and so not in Sheol and since there is somewhat of iust men in Sheol as the Scriptures witnesse it must needes be the soule and this erroneous and perfidious position that the body of man hath no being at al after it is turned to dust is the sole foundation of your late made Sheol for iust mens soules It is a most vaine reason that you giue that Sheol heere is taken for hell because death to the wicked is the passage to hell which death Ezechiah was not neeere vnto I doubt not but you wil be as bold with me as you are with others to corrupt or peruert euery word you light on so you may seeme to say somewhat My words were that death in his owne nature was a passage to hell as we find yet by proofe in all the wicked though the faithfull be freed from it by the mercies of God in Christ. And therefore Ezechiah in the bitternesse of his soule might well call death the gates of hell euen as our Sauiour said The gates of hell should not preuaile against his Church though they should persue it on earth calling sinne error and persecution the gates of hell albeit in the godly they worke not so much but in the wicked only And in death denounced by Esaie to Ezechiah the king did not so much feare the passage out of this life as the suddaine change of Gods fauour towards him who not long before with a mightie hand from heauen and by a miraculous slaughter of his enemies saued him and his city from the rage of Senacherib and on the suddaine about that very time as the Scripture noteth strake him with sicknesse and sent him word to putt his house in order for he should die which message the king feared was a signe of Gods displeasure against him as iudging him vnworthy to enioy so great a deliuerance And this might make Ezechiah otherwise a good king to tremble at that which in Gods secret counsell he was not neere vnto though in the feare and gâ—…iefe of his own hart he might feele in some fort the bitternes of death in that short pangue Another obiection of yours is as weake where you say Sheol heere must be the graue because it is said afterward sheol doth not confesse thee death cannot praise thee for it is euident that Ezechiah meaneth not absolutâ—…ly there is no praising of God in shâ—…l but onely be vnderstandeth the outward frequenting of the Temple and publishing of Gods goodnesse to others If you can shift of one circumstance or make a shew with some ambiguity you thinke your selfe safe neither care nor conscience leadeth you to looke to the rest that is written either in the same or in other places of the sacred Scriptures This comparison made betwixt the liuing and the dead that the liuing confesle and praise God which the dead cannot doe belongeth in the liuing to the whole man that is chiefly to the soule the maker and directer of our praiers but associated with the body whose parts and affections she guideth and composeth euen as she doth the tongue to serue so good an action In the dead this ioint deuotion of body and soule
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Hades below was stirred to meete thee So likewise he citeth and alloweth Platoes words When death draweth neere the tales that are told 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of things in Hades how he that heere dealeth vniustly shall there be punished and were laughed at then trouble the soule least they prooue true Irâ—…us saith Heerein Christ legem mortuorum seruauit did as other doe that diâ—… and conuersed three daies vbi erant mortui sancti where the dead Saints were And this he calleth locum inuisibilem the vnseene world What meaneth thiâ—… but Hades as we take it yea a little before he expresly calleth it Paradise Neuerthelesse I grâ—…nt that he thought this vnseene world was indeed beneath in the earth Wherein his proofes doe vtterly faile him as you your selfe doe fully grant and professe in this point as well as we In time you may learne some skill to alter and counterfait the Fathers writings but as yet your cunning faileth you You doe not marke or will not see that Irenaeus in this Chapter expresly confuteth a number of your positions and subuerteth the whole frame of your meere priuatiue Sheol and not Irenaeus but your sense put to Irenaeus his words against his manifest meaning is all the hold you haue in thisplace Irenaeus condemneth two of your assertions as erroneous the one that Christes soule after death went vpward to heauen and descended not downeward to the lower parts of the earth The next that the soules of the Saints as soone as they die ascend to the highest heauens Haeretici simulatque mortui fuerâ—…t dicâ—…t se supergredicaelos Hereticks as soone as they be dead say they ascend aboue the heauens They will not vnderstand that if this were so as they say the Lord himselfe surely would not haue made his resurrection on the third day sed super crucem expirans confestim vtique abiâ—…sset sursum relinquens corpus terrae but giuing vp the ghost on the crosse would no doubt haue straightwaies gone vpward leauing his bodie to the earth But now he staied three daies where the dead were As he refelleth your imaginations so he nothing relieueth your assertions though you touch nothing of his which you turne not awrie with corrupting his sense or his sentence Christ kept the law of the dead saith Irenaeus that is say you he did but as others that die and conuersed three dâ—…es where the dead Saints were The lawe of the dead which Irenaeus heere speaketh of is to expect the resurrection of their bodies till the time prefixed by God His wordes are As then our Master non statiâ—…â—…lans abiâ—… did not straight after death ascend vp but staied the time appointed for his resurrection by the Father so we ought to endure the time of our resurrection prefixed by God and so to be assumed as many as the Lord shall count woorthy You make a new law of your owne for the dead which Irenaeus neuer thought of and the iâ—…sible place appointed for their soules vntill the resurrection if you will haue it to be the same which Irenaeus saith Christ had must be the lower parts of the earth which I trust is not Paradise If therefore saith he the Lord obserued the law of the dead and staying vntill the third day in the lower parts of the earth then rose in his flesh and so ascended to his father how should they not be confounded who say their inward man leauing the body heere in supercelestem ascendere locum ascendeth to the highest place of heauen Touching the place where Christs soule seuered from his bodie was as the transcriber or printer before you mistooke the word sanctorum in Irenaeus for sanctus so you the second time corrupt the same in saying Christ conuersed three daies where the dead Saints were in steed of Vbi erant mortui where the dead were This place is twise before alleadged by Irenaeus where the word sanctus is referred to God and not to the dead Commemoratus est dominus sanctus Israel mortuorum suorum qui dormierant in terra sepultionis The Lord the holy one of Israêl remembred his dead which slept in the earth of their buriall and descended to them So in his 4 booke and 39 chapter he repeateth it againe Recommemoratus est dominus sanctus Israel mortuorum suorum qui prâ—…dormierunt in terra defossionis The Lord the holy one of Israel remembred his dead which before his comming had slept in the earth digged to lay them in that is in their Graues Iustine Martyr citeth the Greeke words to like effect The Lord God out of Israel remembred his dead that slept 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in their graues This being the true tenor or translation of this sentence it is euident that the transcriber or printer of Ireneus mistooke Sanctorum for Sanctus and you more wilfully presume to put the word Sanctus to the former period of purpose to imply that Christ went no whither but where the souls of his Saints were But you vtterlie peruert Ireneus meaning for Christs going to them doth not exclude his goinge els whither and in those generall words Christ conuersed three dayes with the dead are comprised not only the graue and place of buriall where the Lords dead were but as appeareth by Ireneus proofes following the Heart and lower parts of the earth euen the nethermost Infernum hell where others were which were no Saints and the souls of the Saints were not except you mind to establish Limbus out of these words Now what hath your priuatiue Sheól and Hades to do with these words heere are places described in the earth and vnder the earth where if you set the soules of the Saints vntill the day of resurrection you empty Paradise and quite deny the Saints deceased to be in any part of heauen since heauen is aboue and not vnder the earth And though you say Ireneus proofes doe faile him for his purpose they are plaine and full as that Christ was in the heart of the earth and descended to the lower parts of the earth and that of Dauid applied by him to Christ Thou hast deliuered my soule from the nethermost hell There is therfore nothing in these words of Ireneus that fauoreth your new found hades though the souls of Christs disciples after death be granted to go to an muisible place prepared for them by God which whether it be Paradise or heauen or a place vnder earth for thither â—…aith Ireneus Christ descended but he doth not say that the souls of his Disciples shall thither goe till the resurrection as you falsly collect it cannot be your hades which is a meere priuation of this life and hath no positiue thing in it much lesâ—…e a certaine and defined place for the soules of his Saints And where you presume as your manner is that Ireneus a little before calleth this
inuisible place expresly Paradise if that were so you must then confesse your hades is not common to good and bad and hath in it not only an heauenly place but an happie state which I trust you will not allow to the wicked and so hades and heauen to be all one with you which thing you so much disclaime But by your leaue it is not so your friends and you are ouerbold with Ireneus to make him say what you list Six and twenty Chapters before this he saith the elders which were the Apostles Disciples deliuered that such as were translated that is remooued hence with their bodies without dying as Enoch and Elias were translated thither euen to Paradise and there remaine they which were translated euen to the end shewing now a beginning of incorruption Againe he further sheweth that in the Scripture he taketh hades to be al one with death or the dominion of death where he readeth the text thus Vbi est mors aculeus tuus Vbi est mors victoria tua Death where is thy sting Death where is thy victory You shew your selfe to be well read in the fathers that cannot tell whether Ireneus wrote in Greeke or in Latin and therefore in steed of a most learned and most eloquent writer as Ierom calleth him you bring vs the authority of an vnknowen and obscure interpreter Were there no more but the very place euen now cited and abused by your selfe the parts whereof are found in Ireneus thrice after three seuerall interpretations as for example in Terra sepultionis in terra defossionis in terra stipulationis it were enough to shew the Author neuer wrote in Latine that varieth so much from himselfe and that the translator was verie seely but there are other arguments infinite the Greeke wordes expressing the conceits of heretikes aboue 120 euery where be retained the stile throughout exactly resembling the Greeke phrase the manifold citations thereof by the Greeke Fathers as 18. whole Chapters by Epiphanius 22. peeces and parts thereof by Eusebius and 14. by Theodoret besides Polycarpe his instructor and teacher euen in his youth who was altogether a Grecian But we shall not need to seeke reasons for it since Ierom so many hundred yeeres agoe when the originall was extant numbreth Ireneus amongst the Greek writers We shall seeme saith he to crosse the opinions of many auncient writers of the Latins Tertullian Victorinus Lactantius of the Greekes o omit the rest I will make mention onely of Ireneus Bishop of Lions And againe To name the Greeke writers and to ioine the first and last together Ireneus and Apollinarius Ireneus then writing in Greeke and citing the Apostles words likewise in Greek you cannot proue by the rude and late translation of his works which we haue how he read the Apostles text Gregorie Bishop of Rome more then 600 yeeres after Christ saith Scripta beati Irenei iamdiu est quòd solicite quaesiuimus sed hactenus ex â—…is inueniri aliquid non potuit The writings of blessed Ireneus we haue long and carefully sought for but hitherto nothing of his can be found he meaneth in Latin for before and after euerie Greek diuine as Basil Cyril Theodoret Occumenius Aretas Anastasius Damascen Procopius Nicetas cite Irenaeus workes and words The Latin translation of the Apostles words 1 Corinth 15 Death where is thy sting death where is thy victory I shall haue fitter occasion by and by to examine Tertullian doth likewise For speaking of Inferi which he taketh for the same that hades is he noteth it as the place quo vniuersa humanitas trahitur whither all mankind must goe and therefore of Christes going thither he saith Because he was a man therefore hee died according to the Scriptures and was buried according to the same also heere he satisfied the common law of nature by following the forme of mens dying and going to the world of the dead If you should not peruert both Tertullians wordes and sense neither would make for your purpose And though you gain not much by corrupting the coherence of his wordes yet are you so vsed to haue all to your liking that you cannot hold your hand from disordering other mens speeches Christ saith Tertullian being God because he was also man and died according to the Scriptures and was buried according to the same euen in this satisfied the law by performing the course of an humane death apud Inferos in the places below In steed of Legi the law you say the common law of nature apud Inferos you translate going to the world of the dead These bee your fansies added to Tertullians wordes and no parts of his purpose In the meane while you dissemble and therein abuse both your selfe and your Reader that euen in that Chapter and the sentence before Tertullian describeth Inferi to be a place vnder the earth whither the soules of good and bad descend after death the good to a kind of refreshing which is plainely Limbus so much refused by your selfe the bad to punishment His wordes in the fiue and fiftie Chapter which you quote precedent to those which you cite are these Nobis inferi non nuda cauositas nec sub diualis aliqua mundi sentina creduntur sed in fossa Terrae in alto vastitas in ipsis visceribus eius abstrusa profunditas Siquidem Christum in corde Terrae triduum mort is legimus expunctum id est in recessu intimo interno in ipsa Terrâ—… operto intra ipsam cauato inferioribus adhuc abyssis superstructo We beleeue Inferi to be no bare hollownesse nor any sincke vnder the world but in the gulfe of the earth and in the depth of vastitie and in the very bowels of the earth an abstruse profunditie For we reade that Christ was the three dayes of his death in the heart of the earth that is in an inward place within the midst thereof and couered with the earth and hollowed within the same and seated ouer mighty deepes below If this be your world of the dead let any man of vnderstanding iudge whether this be not a plaine euident description of that which the latter writers called Limbus and whether there can be any fuller delineation of it then a place vnder the earth and in the midst thereof euen hollowed in the bowels of the earth and couered with the same hauing vnder it mighty deepes And that in it there is as well rest for the good as torments for the wicked And the continuation of the very same sentence which you guilefully bring for your world of dead and the conclusion of both are deliuered by Tertullian in these words if Christ did performe the course of an humanc death in places below neither did ascend into the higth of the heauens before he descended into the lower parts of the earth there to make the
hades either for the place or state of the godly now deceased in Christ nor for the generall or common condition of both elect and reprobate since Christs resurrection but as we saw before in Iustine the martyr Chrysostome and Theodoret precisely for a place opposite to Paradise and heauen where the wicked after this life find the due wages of their sinnes which is eternall darâ—…knesse and death where the dwelling and dominion of Diuels is and whence the Saints dead and liuing from the beginning of the world to the end thereof weâ—…e and are redeemed and deliuered by Christ. Iosephus a Iew and yet a fauourâ—…r of Christian Religion as appeareth by his testimonie giuen of Christ and one that liued euen in the Apostles time as being a chiefe leader of the Iewes in the battaile against the Romans and taken by Veâ—…pasian to whom he foretold by the gift of pâ—…ophesie whiles Nero yet liued that he should be Emperour in his oration to dissuade them that would haue killed themselues and him before he should yeeld to the Romans Know you not saith he that such as goe out of this life by the law or course of nature and repâ—…y the debt which they râ—…ceaued of God when he that gaue it is willing to receaue it haue immortall glory an house and ofspring setled and their soules cleansed and fauoured of God inhabit the holiest place of heauen and whose hands waxe mad against themselues 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 THEIR SOVLâ—…S HADES that is darke RECEIVETH Ignatius the third bishop of Antioch after the Apostles sayth of Christ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 He descended alone to Hades Hell and threw downe the rampier that had stood from the beginning and brake vp the partition wall thereof which kept men from heauen To the state of the dead Christs soule did not descend alone the thiefs soule was with him neither had the rampier of bodily death continued vnbroken from the beginning since many before Christs suffering rose from the generall condition of the dead but hell it was to which he alone of all men that euer returned went and brake the strength and force thereof which till that time was vntouched Theophilus the sixt bishop of Antioch about 170 yeeres after Christ alleageth against Autolycus a maligner of Christian religion the verses of Sybilla to prooue that the Gentiles did sacrifice to diuels 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 You made sacrifices to diuels in hades Clemens Alexandrinus not long after labouring to proue that Peters words Christ preached to the spirits in prison pertained to the wicked not to the godly giueth this reason 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 who being well aduised will thinke the soules of the iust and of sinners to be in one condâ—…mnation Whence he concludeth that none heard Christs voice there but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 such as were placed in hades and had yeelded themselues wâ—…ttingly to destruction And for proofe thereof alleageth these words as out of the Scripture 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Hades sayd to destruction We saw not his shape but we heard his voice I cite not these places to approoue euery allegation or opinion that is occurrent but to shew in what sense the auncient Greeke writers that were Christians vsed the worde Hades not for the common condition and state of soules iust and vniust which Clemens heere disaâ—…oweth but for the place where the wicked were detained that wilfully wrought their owne destruction Eusebius speaking in the person of Christ saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 I see my descent to Hades approch and the rebellion against me of the contrarie powers that are enemies to God He saith Eusebius went thither 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for the saluation of the soules that were in Hades and descended to breake the brasen gates 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to dismis those that before were prisoners of hades And out of Plato he alleageth this for a trueth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that the soules of the wicked immediately after death departing hence endure the punishment in Hades of their doings heere Athanasius a man of no meane iudgement in whose confession or Creede allowed in the Booke of Common Prayer we finde it a part of the Christian faith that Christ descended to Hades declareth in infinite places what he meaneth by the word Hades After man had sinned saith he and was fallen by his fall death preuailed from Adam vntill Christ the earth was accursed 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Hades was opened Paradise was closed Heauen was offended but after all things were deliuâ—…red to Christ the whole was reformed and persited the earth in steede of a curse was blessed paradise was opened 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Hades shranke for feare the gates of heauen were left open He suffering for vs recouered vs and hungring refreshed vs 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 And descending to hades brought vs backe For if the Lord had not beene made man we had neuer risen from the dead as redeemed from our sinnes but had remained vnder the earth as dead neither had we euer beene lifted vp to heauen 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 but had lien in hades Againe he that examined mans disobedience and gaue iudgement inflicted a double punishment saying to that which was earthly Earth thou art and to earth shalt thou returne and to the soule Thou shalt die the death and so man was distracted into two parts and condemned to abide after death in two places If you can shew an other place whither man was condemned well may you say man was deuided into three parts and that being recouered out of two places he remaineth bound and chained in the third 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 but if you can shew none other place besidâ—…s the graue and hades hell out of which man was perfectly freed by Christ how say you then that God is not yet reconciled to man This appeareth not onely in vs but in the death of Christ the body comming to the graue 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and the soule descending to Hades being places that are seuered with a great distance the graue receauing his body for there it was present and hades his spirit or soule els how did Christ present the shape of his owne soule to the soules detained in bandes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that hee might breake in sunder the bandes of the soules detained in hades So likewise speaking of Christes persuing the diuell by his life and death hee else where saith The diuell was fallen from heauen hee was cast from the earth hee was persued in the aire euery where conquered and euery where straightned 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 he determined to keepe Hades hell for this place was yet left him But the Lord a true Sauiour would not leane his worke vnfinished 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 nor leaue those that were in hades as yeelded
thing so to thinke Ambrose confesseth the same Expers peccati Christus cum ad Tartari ima descenderet vinctas peccato animas mortis dominatione destructa é fâ—…ucibus Diaboli reuocauit ad vitam Christ free from sinne when he descended to the lowest pit of hell recalled to life out of the diuels iawes the soules that were bound with sinne destroying the Dominion of death And so doth Ierom. Infernus locus suppliciorum atque cruciatuum est in quo videtur diues purpuratus ad quem descendit dominus vt vinctos de Carcere din itteret Infernus is the place of punishments and torments in which the rich man clothed with purple was seene and to which the Lord descended to dimisse such as were bound out of prison These I trust were no Heretikes but if need were and I would vse that aduantage against you which you insisting on Tertullians error seeke against me they would doe little lesse then prooue you to be a refuser and peruerter of the faith receiued in the Church of Christ and professed not by them onely but by all those Fathers whom I formerly cited as concurring in this cause with them But I smile at your follie and remit your reproches to the Readers impartiall Censure Athanasius also saying where humane soules were held by death there Christ brought his humane soule meaneth nothing else but that his soule came vnder the same condition of death as other humane soules did not that he went to the place of the damned Neither must he be vnderstood after your partiall translation when you say ex orco out of hell himselfe saith ex Hadou out of the power of death You set your selfe to outface all the places which I brought out of the Fathers for Christs descent to hell and as you played your part in wrenching wrying the words of Tertullian Austin from their rightsense so you continue in all the rest with like successe thinking it enough for you to say the word though it be neuer so false and farre from the Fathers meaning As first in Athanasius wordes what double punishment was that I pray which God threatned to Adam for sinne in saying to the earthly part earth thou art to earth shalt thou returne and to the soule thou shalt die the death for those are Athanasius words and what be the two places to which man after his dissolution was condemned Did God threaten nothing to Adam but the dissolution of bodie and soule or did he threaten the death of the soule also after this life which properly noteth hell besides the death of the bodie I trust you be not so senselesse as to say that God for sinne threatened no more to Adam and his posteritie but onely a bodily death for so could none of Adams off-spring by that sentence be adiudged to hell which yet we find daily performed by Gods iustice Then the death of mans soule threatened by God for sinne and meant by Athanasius in those words which you would elude was the place of perpetuall torments where the soule of man was truly held in death and not the condition of the soule seuered from the bodie without respect of any consequent miserie Therefore your maine foundation is euidently false that Athanasius by the death of mans soule meaneth nothing els but the soules being apart from the bodie without regard of punishment following but in expresse words he noteth the place Vbi tencbatur anima humana in morte where the soule of man was held captiue in death which spite of your heart must needes be hell Againe according to the double death threatned for sinne Athanasius saith â—… Homo in duas partes discerpitur vt ad duo loca discedat condemnatur Man dying is distracted in two parts and CONDEMNED TO TWO PLACES Now in your diuinitie is any man condemned to heauen or to Paradise you must find vs then two places of condemnation whither either part of man dissolued was adiudged as his bodie to the graue his soule to hades So saith Athanasius in expresse words If you can shew me another place of condemnation well you may say that a man is diuided 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 into three places and that being reuoked out of two places he remaineth bound in the third but if you can shew none other place of condemnation 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 besides the graue and Hades from which man is perfectly freed Christ deliuering vs how say you then that God is not reconciled vnto mankind If then Hades bee a place of condemnation â—…or sinne where the soule of man was bound till it was freed by Christ 〈◊〉 certainely Hades with Athanasius is neither Paradise nor heauen but onely hell Againe if by death raigning in the soule of man Athanasius intended nothing but the condition of death common to good and bad and euen to Christ himselfe how could hâ—… say of Christ that he was then and there inuiolus a morte not subâ—…ect to death or that he brake 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the bands of the soules detained in hades Hath heauen or Paradise any bands that must be broken And as for you last conceit that Hades being enemie and opposite to the immortalitie and resurrection of mens persons cannot by any means be hell for in hell shal be immortality resurrection as well as in heauen it is so like to the rest of your diuinitic that I doc not ouer much maruaile at it If hades be enemie and opposite to immortalitie as you confesse out of Athanasius then Hades is neither heauen nor Paradise for they are both places of immortalitie there is no death but life in either of them And though you cunningly shift handes and change mens persons for mens soulâ—…s of which Athanasius speaketh when he sayth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 where mans soule was held in death there Christ presented his humane soule to breake the chaines of death euen in hades yet that immortality is as well in hell as in heauen is a phrase of your owne framing to put all trueth and faith out of ioint The Scriptures teach most truely that God alone hath immortality It then you haue found vs a new immortalitie in hell you haue found vs a new God also And what is immortalitie but without all death since then in hâ—…ll there is nothing but death that eternall as well of soule as of body your deuices are very delâ—…cate in euerlasting death to finde no death But dally not thus with the grounds of Religion least God doe not dally with you if by your assertion the deliuerance from death and immortalitie which Christ brought to his elect be none other then such as men in hell shall haue pray God your braines be not as much crazed as your faith is And as for your interpreting Athanasius words and gessing at his meaning when we vse madde men to
resurrection and Tertullian nameth the law either threatning Adam if he sinned or the Law of Moses punishing sinne committed by men either of which stretcheth farder then the separation of the soule from the body As for the law of our nature which you say is to die and no more you talke thereof as if you were rather a prophane Philosopher then anie piece of a Diuine since this law was laid on our nature for sinne and forceth as well our soules to hell if we be not thence redeemed by Christ as our bodies to the graue That in death the whole man is dissolued the soule separated from the body and the bodie left voide of sense and life what is this to your purpose will this conclude that the soule in heauen or in paradise being not onely in rest but in ioy feeleth still the sting of death which she felt at her parting from her body before she tasted the life to come Will you continue the power and sense of death euen in heauen because the soule assured of Gods goodnesse and promise expecteth her body to be partaker of the same blisse with her and to receaue the crowne of righteousnesse laide vp in store for all that loue Christes comming or if you be so venturous in fauour of your owne conceits that you will mingle darkenesse with light death with life and the feare of hell with the ioy of heauen thinke you to finde any man so vnwise as to tread your steppes in these vnchristian deuices Chrysostome and Basil likewise with the rest of the Greekes may be noted how they yeeld Hades to the soules of the godly and iust men deceased remaining in ioyes If you speake of the time afore Christes comming and take Hades for places vnder the earth you may chance to finde some such thing in Chrysostome and Basil but that either of them after Christs resurrection yeeldeth Hades to the soules of the blessed is a manifest vntrueth And since I haue handled these places before I shall not need to repeate them againe Also Ambrose is to be considered who right according to all the rest saith Soules departed from their bodies did goe to Hades that is to an inuisible place which in Latin we call Infernum Could you alleage the Fathers wordes rightly you might happely sometimes vnderstand them but alwaies peruerting them as you doe what maruell if alwaies you misse their meaning Ambrose doth not there deliuer either his owne opinion or the perswasion of any Christians but speaketh of Heathen Philosophers who knew nothing of our saluation by Christ and of them saith Satis fuerat dixisse illis quod liberatae animae de corporibus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 peterent idest locum qui non videtur quem locum Latine infernum dicimus It had beene enough for them being Pagans to haue said that the soules seuered from their bodies went to Aides that is to a place vnseene which in Latine we call Infernus hell If you be a Pagan we looke for none other confession at your handes he that is ignorant of the faith must needs be ignorant of the trueth but if you be a Christian you may not say as the Pagans did that the soules of the godly who are with Christ goe to Hades or Infernus Ambrose himselfe will tell you so much In Inferno semper est qui non ascendit ad Christum He that ascendeth not to Christ is alwaies in hell As for Christes descending he saith Dominus in Infernum descendit vt illi qui in Infernis erant a perpetuis vinculis soluerentur The Lord descended to hell that they which were in places below might be loosed from perpetuall chaines You haue found out the death of the soule in heauen can you finde vs there perpetuall chaines also And Ierom Infernus is a place where the soules are included either in rest or paines It is no newes for him that hath no sense of trueth to haue no shame of falshood If Ieâ—…om were not plaine enough that he hath no such wordes or meaning as to bestow the soules of the saints in Inferno after Christs resurrection you might be borne with but when expresly he voucheth and prooueth the contrarie what can be in you but precise impudence to outface your Reader with Ieroms name against Ieroms most manifest assertion Porro quòd sancti post resurrectionem Christine nequaquam teneantur in Inferno testatur Apostolus dicens Melius est dissolui esse cum Christo. Qui autem cum Christo est vtique non tenetur in Inferno That the Saints saith Ierom are not after Christes resurrection detained in Infernus the Apostle witnesseth saying it is better to be dissolued and to be with Christ. Now he that is with Christ surely is not held in Infernus And againe Quid simile Infernus regna caelorum what likenesse or neerenesse hath Infernus to the kingdome of heauen and this the situation of Infernus euery where vrged by Ierom will prooue Simul discimus quod infernus sub terra sit dicente scriptura vsque ad fundamenta Laci Withall saith he we learne that Infernus is vnder the earth the Scripture saying euen vnto the bottom of the lake And againe Inferiora terrarum infernus accipitur ad quem Dominus noster saluatorque descendit The lower parts of the earth are taken for Infernus to which our Lord and Sauiour descended Quod autem Infernus in inferiore parte terrae sit Psalmista testatur And that Infernus is in the lower part of the earth the Psalmist testiâ—…ieth saying The earth opened and swallowed Dathan and couered the congregation of Abiram And in an other place we reade let death come vpon them and let them descend aliue to Infernus If you will place the soules of the Saints deceased in Christ below in the earth then may you haue some hold in Ierom that they are yet in Infernus but if that be repugnant to the Scriptures to the Fathers to Ieroms expresse words and euen to your owne positions why vse you or rather so openly abuse you Ieroms speech against so maine and manifest a trueth not distinguishing the time whereof he spake but confounding the old and new Testament together to giue place to your lame collections Ruffinus vpon Descendit ad Inferna giueth this sense Descendit in mortem He submitted vnto death If death had none other sense nor force but the death of the bodie your saying were somewhat but since death for sinne raigneth aswell in hell ouer the Soule as in the graue ouer the body the name of death doth not exclude Christes descent to hell and so much Ruffinus words will easily conuince Eousque ille miserando descendit vsque quo tu peccando deiectus es So farre Christ of mercy descended how farre thou by sinning wast deâ—…ected Now if we by sinning were in danger of none
other but a bodily death then Christ descended onely to the graue but if the desert of our sinne tied vs as guiltie to the torments of hell then Christ by Ruffinus confession so farre descended how farre we were by Gods iustice deiected that is to the place of condemnation for sinne And therefore Ruffinus doth not onely knit these speaches together in the person of Christ as expounding one the other Eduxisti de Inferno animam meam de abysso terrae â—…erum adduxisti me thou hast brought my soule from Infernus and hast brought me backe againe from the deepe of the earth But of the diuell he saith Qui mortis habebat imperium disruptis Inferni claustris velut de profundo tractus traditur he that had Rule of death was drawen as it were out of the deepe the cloysters of Infernus being broken open The place where the diuell was and whence he was drawen when he was spoyled and triumphed by Christ was not the separation of the Soule from the Body which the diuel hath not but it was the deepe of hell which here is called Infernus So that it is certaine by all the Fathers generally First that Hades and Sheol are taken for the state of death common to the Soules of good and bad Secondly Christ went not into hell the place of the damned as you hold but to the habitation of the blessed deceased If I haue not conuinced both these collections to be false by the manifest Testimonies of the Fathers for out of them you gather these obseruations then I desire no mans consent to any thing that I haue sayd but if you grosly mistake and misuse all the Fathers names and speeches then I trust the Reader will better consider what credit is to be giuen to your certainties and giue me leaue to be shorter in slipping ouer your idle presumptuous vaine crafts and false collections which are almost all that is behinde A taste whereof if he will take let him heare these bragges of yours following Thus your vaine boasting of all the Fathers is but a bubble So that if you consent as you say to be tried by all the Fathers Greeke and Latine they quite ouerthrow you notwithstanding your great words If your vaine and shamelesse boasting were not by this time well knowen I would giue some fresh assault to these bulwarks of falsitie and insolenâ—… but the proofs being euident and precedent which I leaue to the Readers indifferent iudgement I will ouerskip this and a great deale more of the same kind as the bubbles or your vanitie and if ought be said to any purpose I will refute that otherwâ—…e I will bestow no more paper and incke on your wandring and wilde conceits Only Austen doubtingly and waueringly differeth from all the rest for thus he saith I confesse I haue not yet found that Inferi are named where the iust mens soules are at peace You might haue done well to haue learned of Austen this sober and modest course not by vaunting and outfacing but by plaine and faire confessing to shew the ground of your opinion as Austen doth of his Wherein he differeth not from all the rest as you confidently yet most iniuriously report of him but in this hee exactly and resolutely consenteth with them all Tertullians errour still excepted that after Christs resurrection Deinceps boni fideles prorsus Inferos nesciunt Good Christians dying come not to Inferi at all And as for the former opinion that the godly deceased before Christes death went ad Inferos to places below in the earth though not to torments which is the stone that still you stumble at and make it the very heart of all your defence deceitfully applying that to the time since Christes resurrection which the Fathers euer intended and expressed to pertaine to the time before Christes comming S. Austen though he yeeld so farre to former writers as to say If it may seeme tâ—… be beleeued without absurditie yet he euery where professeth he could finde no such vse of the word Inferi in any place of the sacred Scriptures and that Abrahams bosome where the Saints did rest before Christs death was a part or skirt of hell he vtterly refuseth that as no way consonant to the wordes of Christ in the Gospell And therefore when he proposeth the other opinion with a condition if it may be beleeued without absurditie euen there he retaineth his owne resolution that Abrahams bosome was in locis à tormentis impiorum remotissimis in places most remote from the torments of the wicked and to beleeue otherwise were an absurditie as he concludeth in his 99. Epistle Against Austin you obiect First that surely the auncients named the places for all deceased good and badde Inferos as they named the world where both wicked and good doe liue Superos Secondly that Austen if hee had well marked it might haue found euen this which he saith he found not in the Latin translation of the Scripture What man is there that shall deliuer his soule from the hand of inferi that is death Where the soule being takeâ—… properly for the soule then Inferi is found applied to iust mens soules deceased as well as to the wicked which Augustine might haue obserued Were you masking this might make mirth but being in earnest it is more then idle What if Arnobius in respect of hell being in the earth beneath vs call vs that liue on earth superos those aboue is that a proofe that the godly deceased are called inferi who knoweth not that infra supra are differences of place which in diuers respects may be diuersly varied To those that are in heauen we are Inferi that is beneath them and in that reference to heauen which is aboue vs Augustine himselfe doubteth not to call the earth Infernum Ad hoc infernum missus est filius Dei nascendo ad illud inferius moriendo To this earth below was the Sonne of God sent when he was borne to that other place beneath vs when he died But if no speciall comparison of place bee expressed then Superi Inferi the Saints aboue and the spirits beneath are generally so called in regard of vs who dwell on earth and speake on earth are by position of place in the middest that is lower then the highest and higher then the lowest And because vnder vs there are none liuing but those in hell therefore Inferi whom the Apostle calleth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 are spirits vnder the earth whether men or diuels As for that other obiection out of the Psalmes it is not onely a bubble soone blowen away but a bable not worth the bringing The translation of Tremelius and Iunius to whom you most appeale for these matters hath eripiat seipsum à sepulchro shall he saue himselfe from the graue that is can hee keepe himselfe that he shall not die and where you
also in the same place with the damned Such new Cosmographie well becommeth your new Diuinitie without such misshapen Asses you are not able to open your mouth But if this be your best defence for your new found Hades your Reader I trust will be better aduised before he will be in the same place or minde with you The Scriptures teach vs to distinguish places according to their names giuen them by God himselfe as heauen earth and hell and not to make all one common place or world of soules which you haue newly created We stand not so much on this that by hades must be vnderstood any one place common to all the dead but the state and condition of death among the dead All this while you haue beene prouing that hades is an inuisible place and so doth Ambrosse expound it aïdes is a place not seene which we call Hell now you can not tell how to bring heauen and hell which are so farre distant asunder to be one common place you would faine reduce them to one common state or condition of death when the Scriptures euery where make them opposite ascribing light and life to the one and darkenesse and death to the other But you haue found one common condition of death in both which is to want their bodies What say you then to Elias who was caried vp to heauen or to Paradise aliue and neuer died Are he and the rest who rose from their graues with Christ in the common condition of death What say you to Core Dathan Abiram and their company who descended aliue to hades are they free from the condition of death in hades because they haue their bodies Meere priuations are no conditions or states And therefore to want their bodies for a time either in heauen or in hell maketh no common estate to both no more than that they are all soules and contained in some certaine limitation of place which nothing touch their condition or state otherwise the damned in hell and the blessed in heauen shall alwayes haue one common state and condition because they shall eternally be fastned to their places and shall haue their soules vnited to their bodies and shall remember things past and such like which yet do not performe one common estate or condition to both since they shall haue so many contraries to make them differ euen as now they haue though degrees of ioy and paine shall then increase The Pagans esteemed indeed a part of his dominion to be hell properly but a part also to be the region of the happie This is like the rest of your trueths Did the Pagans know or acknowledge none other heauen but hades Did euer man so write or speake that had read but one leafe of prose or Poetrie neuer read you what Cicero citeth out of Ennius Romulus in caelo cum Dijs agit aeuum Romulus enioyeth eternitie with the Gods in heauen And addeth of his owne Quid totum propè coelum nonne humano genere completum est The whole heauen is it not almost replenished with mankind Homer and the rest of the Greeke Poets were not ignorant hereof nor silent herein Of Hercules Homer sayth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 He doth solace himselfe with the immortall Gods And what was ouranos with them if hades were their heauen Arristotle sayth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The highest place of the world being the seat or habitation of God is called heauen To this heauen the Poets admitted the sons of their Gods obscurely lighting on that rule of true religion the sons of God shal inherit the kingdome of God but the Philosophers plainly affirme of iustice and pietie ea vita via est in coelum such a life is the way to heauen And for al the helpers encreasers and preseruers of their countrey certum esse in coelo ac dâ—…finitum locum vbi beati aeuo sempiterno fruantur there is a set and certaine place in heauen where they shall enioy euerlasting blessednesse The Greeke Poets then were not ignorant of heauen aboue when they sent most men departing this life to Hades beneath but they had heard somewhat of that diuine sentence which adiudged mankind for sinne to death both of body and Soule and thereupon as there manner is to multiply their owne fansies and fables they placed all mortall men in Hades below and yet allowed the better sort of men some ease and comfort though they neuer brought them to heauen except they thought them the sonnes of some God What is this to the true heauen which is the glorious seate of God and the euerlasting habitation of his Angels and Saints Why yoke you Gods trueth with Poeticall fables and humane fansies as if the one were not onely a meet paterne for the other but the same place with the other How commeth hades to be al one with the created world and so not only men liuing are in hades but Saints and Angels yea Christ himselfe is still in hades since neither he nor they are without the compasse of the created world So large is your predicament of hades that the whole world is scant wide enough for it After this you reade vs a lecture of more than two leaues how the Apostles taught the trueth of the Gospell with the very words of the heathens and as you make rules for their speech at your pleasure so you take paines to bring no authour for all that you say besides your selfe I haue heard so many of your trifling and wandering discourses that I am starke wearie with reading them and if it haue no better weight than your word you may keepe your winde and saue your labour Who doubteth but the Holy Ghost might and did correct as well the words as errours of the heathens and reduced both their eares and hearts to the vnderstanding and imbracing of the Gospell Wherefore such words as Infidels abused and defiled with their wicked imaginations the Apostles of Christ restrained and applied to expresse the trueth thereby teaching the heathen to keepe their words and leaue their errours and not framing the Gospel to the prophane sense or vse of their speech What conclude you hence for hades That the Apostles retained the erroneous sense of that word and made it worse than the Pagans did For the heathen vsed that word for places vnder the earth where soules after this life were kept and you would haue the Apostles vse it for Heauen and Paradise where the soules of the righteous are as well as for hell where the damned are Leaue therefore your idle vagaries the Apostles vsed the word hades for the places vnder the earth where soules were detained as the heathen did but in this they redressed the Pagans conceits that they as naturall men dreamed of bodily pleasures in hades which the Scriptures make a place of torment with perpetuall fire Put this correction to the Poets opinion of hades as touching
hell And further that being in heauen yet staied not there as you say but immediately came out againe to goe to hell Againe that an humane soule being in the depth of hell yet should feele no paines and that being locally in hell it should come out thence also What can be more against the generall rules of the Scriptures then these things You haue laboured heard and caught a herring With much a doe you haue found at length that Christ was a good man he is more beholding to you now then afore when you told vs he was all defiled accursed and hatefull to God for and with our sinnes Your leasure did not serue you to thinke that he was also the true and eternall Sonne of God and therefore no force of death or hell could preuaile on his body or soule farder then he was willing for the declaration of his humilitie and manifestation of his power and glorie Is it against your faith and charitie that all knees of those in heauen and earth and hell should stoupe and bow to the humane nature of the sonne of God Is your Creed so crazed that you can not beleeue that Christ rising spoiled Principalities and powers and made an open shew of them triumphing ouer them in his owne person Is grace so farre gone from you that you may not endure to heare that Christ descended first into the lower parts of the earth and then ascended againe on hie and ledde captiuitie captiue and gaue gifts to men whereof deliuerance and freedome from all power and danger of hell and Satan were not the last nor least But he was a man you say though a good man and therefore you thinke he must be subiected to the same straights that other mortall and sinnefull men are to feele paines in hell and not to come out from thence This which you call faith is infidelitie against the Sonne of God whiles you seeke to tie him with the same chaines of darknesse and weakenesse wherewith wicked and sinnefull men are tied that are adiudged to euerlasting damnation To be condemned to hell is for misbeleeuers and misliuers to destroy the power and strength of hell was meete only for the manhood of the Sonne of God That he felt no paines there and returned thence were the smallest parts of his glorious triumph ouer hell and Satan It was impossible as Peter teacheth that the paines of death or hell should take hold on him and his soule could not be left there As for comming out of heauen to goe to hell to subdue and destroy the same what more inconuenience is in that then in comming from heauen to the graue there to take vp his body when he restored it to life that wicked men condemned to hell cannot come thence nor find ease there I find it testified in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus that the Sonne of God in his humane soule could not goe thither without abiding there for euer and suffering the paines of hell as well as others I find no such grounds in all the Scriptures He saith of himselfe I haue the keies of hell and of death that is all power and command ouer them He had power then not onely to free himselfe from your faithlesse doubts and dangers in hell but to free all his elect from thence and to subiect all things and enemies and so the strength and rage of hell and Satan vnder his feet If the trueth of God bind you to beleene that an Angell comming downe from heauen cast the Dwell into the bottomlesse pit and there bound him and loosed him as he was prescribed doth not your faith serue you to confesse that all power in heauen and in earth and much more in hell was giuen vnto Christ and that as well ouer rebellious Diuels as obedient Angels who adored him when he was brought into the world and serued him the time that he was in the world and are not stronger then his humane nature but receaue power from him as being personally God and Man these be the grounds not of faith but of ignorance which faile vnder your feete and shew that you build on Sand which hath no force when it commeth to be sifted From the grounds of faith which are none you come to the circumstances of the place it selfe and say they are all against me but I that hitherto haue tried you so false conceited in euery thing will not trust you to be true-tonged in this whatsoeuer you pretend These wordes of Dauid thou wilt not leaue my soule in hades nor suffer thine holy one to see corruption I said conteined a speciall prerogatiue verified in none but in the true Messias and Sauiour of the world To this you replie I denie it heere is no such prerogatiue mentioned It is all one skill in you to denic trueths and affirme falsehoodes you cannot doe the one without the other And heere your fansies thrung so fast one on another that they thrust ech other out of doores The maine scope of Saint Peters purpose in this place you doe not or will not vnderstand and on that error you build the rest of your reasons which are all erroneous like the roote whence they come Saint Peter you say intending onely in all this speach to shew the Iewes that this Iesus whom they had slame was not now dead but risen againe plainely graunteth all this matter of Dauid as well as of Christ. Heere are two monstrous falseshoods on which all the rest of your running reasons are setled It had been to small purpose for Peter to prooue to the Iewes that Christ by them slaine was raised from the graue and restored to life if there he had rested or intended that onely as you stifly auouch what could he by this haue inferred more touching Christ then any man might likewise of Lazarus whom Christ raised from the graue This therefore was not Peters scope he had an higher and farder reach in that long Sermon of his which he throughly expresseth afterward and that was Therefore let all the house of Israel know for a suertie that God hath made him both LORD AND CHRIST this Iesus I say whom ye haue crucified To conclude this Peter doth not reason so weakely as you imagine Christs soule is ioined againe to his body though they crucified him ergo Christ is the true Messias and Sauiour of the world This were like one of your reasons which haue nor head nor taile But Peter endued with the holy Ghost reasoned verie truely and sufficiently and in effect thus The prophesie of Dauid which neuer was nor could be fulfilled in any no not in Dauid himselfe but onely in the Messias that his soule should not be left in hades nor his flesh see corruption is fulfilled in Christ whom you crucified he is risen Lord of all his enemies in his owne person the sorrowes of death being losed before him he is ascended vp
doth the like He retaineth in the same verse the word hawwito twice saying as Iunius rendreth it God raised him vp and scattered the sorrowes of perditien because it was not possible that he should be coÌ„quered of perdition Where Iunius plainly yeeldeth that this word in Arabicke answereth the Greeke word f hadou not thanátou which appeareth also in the 6 verse of the same chap. Thou wilt not leaue my soule phâ—… hawwito in perdition Which Saint Luke calleth hades and in the 10 Christ was not left in perdition So that Austen had some reason more then you knew to follow the first translator concurring with many Greeke copies that then were and yet are extant and with the Syricke and Arabicke translations who followed the same copies with the Latin church This text is cited in Ireneus â—… whom God raised sâ—…lutis deloribus inferorum quia non erat possible teneri eum ab eis loosing the sorrowes of hell because it was not possible for him to be held of them Cyprian thus expresseth it Impossibile quippe erat sanctam illam animam teneri ab inferis It was impossible for that sacred soule to be held of hell Fulgentius citeth it Solutis inferni doloribus the sorrowes of hell being loosed Bede taketh both for one in this place k Solutosper Dominum dicit dolores inferni siue mortis Peter saith the sorows of hell or death were dissolued by Christ. Since then both are found in many Greeke copies and neither can be reiected as false the name of death if you retaine it must be so expounded as it may not impugne the force of hades and death hauing a double power place and subiect as the death of the body heere on earth and the death of the soule in hell heereafter this later death and hell doe rightly match together the sorrowes of which were losed by Christ because it was impossible for him to be taken or touched by them You quarrell also with the translation which Austen followed for saying in illis in them though that be the right intent of the text and you sticke not to straine Peters words to what higth you list So that you keepe the words and alter the sense and Austen keepeth the sense though he vary somewhat from the words For that was loosed of which it was impossible Christ should be held and euen therefore was it to be loosed because he could not be held therein But the sorrowes of death or hell were loosed It was therefore impossible Christ should be held of them I meane of the sorrowes of either The sense then is rightly and aptly taken though the plurall be put in stood of the singular and Caluin himselfe in respect of the sense retaineth that change though the words doe somewhat differ from the text In this sense Peter saith Christ rose the sorowes of death being loosed â—…a quibus impossibile erat ipsum tenert of which sorrowes it was impossible he should be held Now if you or any man els can find vs those sorrowes after Christs bodily death we are readie to heare you for they were loosed when Christ was raised but if you cannot as in vaine you haue profered to doe then must the words be expounded that though the soule of Christ after death were in hades euen in the place of torment where it was not left nor forsaken yet the sorowes thereof could not touch him but he loosed and scattered them when he was raised to immortality and heauenly power and glory persuaded of this point heare him againe in the same Epistle Quamobrem teneamus firmissimè quod fides habet fundatissima authoritate sirmata quia Christus mortuus est secundum Scripturas quia sepultus est quia resurrexit tertia die secundum Scripturas cetera quae de illo testatissima veritate conscripta sunt In quibus etiam hoc est quod apud inferos fuit solutis eorum doloribus quibus eum erat impossibile teneri Wherefore let vs most firmely hold that which our faith hath being confirmed by most grounded authority as that Christ died according to the Scriptures and was buried and rose the third day according to the Scriptures and the rest of those things which are written of him in trueth most cleerely testified Amongst which this is also one point that he was in hell and loosed the sorrowes thereof of which it was impossible he should be held This is such a resolution that if you were soberly minded and not phantastically conceited as well in doctrine as in Discipline you would beware how you crossed the faith of the whole Church without more pregnant and euident matter then you haue any and not thinke it enough to shift with Poeticall fansies metaphoricall senses and palpable contrarieties and falsities such as few men would fall into besides your selfe And as for the exposition of Peters wordes which Austen leaueth indifferent if it dislike any man that concerneth the place of Peters first Epistle the third Chapter beginning at the 18. verse How Christ in spirit went and preached vnto the spirits in prison who were disobedient in the daies of Noe Which was the question proposed to him by Euodius to whom he wrote his 99. Epistle And of that he saith Consider yet least happely all that which Peter speaketh of spirits closed in prison which beleeued not in the daies of Noe omnino ad inferos non pertineat sed ad illa potius tempora quorum formam ad haec tempora transtulit pertaine not at all to hell but to those times which Peter compareth with these times And after large discoursing how that comparison might stand he concludeth with your words This exposition of Peters words if it dislike any or doe not satisfie quaerat ea secundum Inferos intelligere let him seeke in Gods Name how to fit the things there written to them in hell So that his exposition subiected to other mens liking did not concerne hell at all nor Christs preaching there but the preaching of repentance in the daies of Noah by the spirit of Christ and if any man liked not that exposition of Peters words he might seeke how to make Peters words agree with things done in hell if he could tell how to performe it Moe circumstances of this text Acts 2. do make affirmatiuely for vs first Peter plainly graunteth all this matter of Dauid as wel as of Christ. But that I am well acquainted with your pertinacie I should muze at this insolencie Peter doth exactly proue that this prophesie was neuer verified in Dauid because Dauids flesh saw corruption as was euident by his Sepulchre remaining with them to that day Since then it was not true of Dauids person that he saw no corruption he spake this as a Prophet knowing that God had sworne to raise vp Christ concerning the flesh to set him vpon his throne You
Hades as is mentioned in the thirteenth verse If you like not this shew vs a reason why the earth is here ouerskipt in which are the most of the dead bodies both of good bad vnlesse it were because no doubt was of the earth in refunding her dead and we will make you a playner explication of these parts which now seeme somewhat doubtfull Howbeit death and Hades cannot stand for one and the selfe same thing as you would haue them since the holy Ghost applieth the plurall number to them and maketh them places not phrases to containe the dead in them by saying death and Hades gaue vp the dead which were in them Words haue no dead in them but places haue which because S. Iohn maketh to bee plurall death and Hades cannot here be taken for one thing Neither were those writers whom you reiect so inconsiderate as not easily to wipe away the force of your faint reasons Bede vpon these words the Sea death and hell gaue vp their dead saith Iohn signifieth the bodies shal be gathered from the earth and their soules from their seuerall places The good vnder the name of death which suffered onelie the dissolution of their bodies and no farder punishment the euill he designeth by the name of hell Andreas Caesariensis taketh the Sea for the earth as Bede doth either because they thought the earth should then be plaine like the sea as Sibylla prophesied Equâ—…ntur campis montes hills and vales shall then be all euen or because heauen and earth were before said to be fled away from his face that sate on the throne and their place no more to be found or for that at the mutation of the world the earth shall melt and burne all ouer like a sea of fire and of the rest he saith Death is the separation of the soule from the body Hades is a place to vs vnseene that is darke and vnknowen which receaueth the dead soules departing hence And those soules are dead which cary with them dead works For the soules of the iust as the wise man saith are in the hands of God and no torment shall touch them Dead soules I read with the interpreter and not our soules as the Printer in Greeke hath mistaken the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 not onely because the interpreter had first the copie before him and tooke more care to render it right then the Printer but also for that the Author in the very next words declareth what he ment by dead soules before of which there is no mention precedent if that word be not kept where the translator putteth it Saint Austen taketh the sea for this world and shewing how those that liue on earth may be called dead euen by warrant of holy Scripture and this life be counted no better then a death addeth Nec frustra fortasse non satis fuit vt diceret mors aut infernus sed vtrumque dictum est Neither happily without cause was it not enough to say death or hell but both are named death for the good who might suffer onely death and not also hell and hell for the wicked which are punished in hell And of the next words death and hell were cast into the lake of fire he saith His nominibus significans Diabolum quoniam mortis est author infernarum poenarum vniuersamque simul Daemonum societatem By these names Saint Iohn signifieth the diuell because he is the Author or first occasioner of death and hell-paines withall the whole multitude of diuels Primasius as he was S. Austens scholar so doth he writing vpon the reuelation retaine S. Austens sense and sentences as they are alleaged next before Aretas writing on the same words S. Iohn saith he meaneth those that haue done things worthy of this punishment 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 making vp the people of the second death Death and hades gaue vp their dead By death saith Haymo we may simply vnderstand the death of the flesh by hell the places of darkensse Death and hades that is all the members of the Diuell with their head were cast into the lake of fire that is into the deepe damnation of hell And rightly are all the reprobate figured by hell either because abiding there they make but one house with hell in which they abide or els for that imitating the worâ—…s of the Diuell they are neuer satisfied with euill as hell neuer saith it sufficeth The new writers doe not dissent if it were worth the time to repeat manie of them Bullinger Death and hell were cast into the lake of fire Hades hell heere doth signifie not the place of punishment but those that are or were in hell whose soules were hitherto deteined in hell or such as are appointed for hell Death also signifieth those that are dead in sinne and which from a spirituall and temporall death directly passe to eternall death Aretas and Primasius are of the same opinion with vs. Chytreus Death shall restore all the bodies slaine by him and hell shall refund the soules of the wicked to be ioined to their bodies Hades in Greeke is deriued from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is not to see or a place lacking light which in the 22 of Matthew is called vtter darkenesse where the wicked depriued of the sight light comfort and life of God not onely suffer perpetuall night or darknesse but great and vnspeakeable paines and torments of soule and body The Latines call it infernus because the place of the damned is thought to be somewhere in the earth beneath vs as it is said in the 16 of Numbers they descended aliue to hell and the earth couered them Thus haue we for your pleasure runne ouer all the places of the new Testament where hades is vsed and for ought we see or you say find the plaine and perpetuall vse of hades to signifie hell and not any such priuations destructions conditions and dominions of bodily death as you dreame of And as for the circumstances of the places they all concurre exactly and directly with this signification of hades which I obserue notwithstanding your Cabbinet of conceits that hades shall designe you know not what where nor when The reasons of my obseruations are manifest For where throughout the old Testament with the Septuagint hades doth alwaies import the pit for dead bodies or soules that is the graue common to good and bad or hell peculiar to the soules of the reprobate with the consequents of either and the writers of the new purposely distinguish 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 death from hades and mention death expressely that is by name or by description in euery of those places where hades is found in the new Testament saue in Christs threatning of Capernaum in which it is opposed to heauen as fardest distant from it and most repugnant to
questioned which you say was without any presence of his humane soule and consequently must be referred to his diuine nature I aâ—…irme the contrarie that this exaltation to be Lord ouer heauen earth and hell pertained not to Christes Deitie which neuer wanted that Soueraintie but to his manhood which was obedient vnto death and was therefore aduanced to this hight And since this conquest ouer hell was reall in proofe not verball in claime speciall to Christes person not generall to all his members and performed after Christes death not by Christes diuine but by his humane nature this must needs be referred to Christes soule which might descend to hell and must before it could shew it selfe vanquisher of hell and not to his bodie which lay dead in the graue and could neither ascend nor descend till it was restored to life You make Christ Lord ouer hell because he kept himselfe from thence but so were all the faithfull whose soules were not inclosed in hell whom yet the Scriptures make not Lords ouer death and hell but deliuered from both There must be a conquest peculiar to Christ whereby he did take all power from them and reserued it to himselfe and rose from death as hauing the keyes of both The particular manner whereof in time and other such circumstances though the Scriptures do not expresse yet must not the general be doubted because the Scriptures witnesse that Christs soule was not left nor for saken in hell of Gods diuine power and presence but thence returned as conquerer of all Satans power and Dominion This the Church of Christ hath alwayes professed and this may the godly safely beleâ—…ue notwithstanding M. Broughtonsbedlom proclamation that it is the generall corruption of religion Scripture and all learning Our fourth reason There is altogether as great reason and as vrgent cause that Christ whole man both soule and bodie should be present in hell to free vs thence wholy that is our soules and bodies as there is that his soule must be there present to free thence our soules Heere I wish you would answere my proposition without skoffes and taunts and â—…autie disdaine as your manner is You cannot mocke and that is great pitie When your propositions want not only proofe and trueth but learning and vnderstanding shall I say they be sage wise Christian resolutions your deuices I call dreames your contradictions I call contrarieties your neglect of all Councels and Fathers I call presumption and your shifting and outfacing affirming that which is false and dâ—…nying that which is true I call vnshamefastnesse if not impudencie What other names should I giue them I professe I cannot flatter you in your fansies neither see I any cause why you regarding no man besides your selfe should thinke your selfe fit to be regarded with the disgrace of all auncients and others Where the matter is not meet to be reiected with disdaine I vse it not and where it is why should I not Yet now you would haue a direct and faire answere to your proposition though you little deserue it you shall This which you mention to wit our deliuerance from hell was not the onely cause of Christs descent thither his owne honour and right that suffered shame and wrong at Satans hand on the crosse was the chieâ—…e cause of his descent that after death he might shew himselfe in his manhood the conquerer and destroier of Satans power This you cleane leaue out of your proposition because you would be sure to bring nothing that should be sound and sufficient Againe your proposition as it standeth hath no strength in it besides your owne imagination For hell once subdued and conquered by Christ needeth not the second time to be conquered Since then till the day of iudgement hell hath no more but the soules of the wicked some few excepted who descended aliue to hell what needed more then the soule of Christ to conquer hell Thirdly sâ—…ing the body is cast into hell to increase the paines of the soule the soule being acquited and freed from hell there is no cause the body should goe thither And so in respect aswell of Gods ordinance till the day of doome as of the soules preeminence in and ouer the body the soule of Christ after death might iustly discharge our bodies and soules from all the power and claime that Satan had against vs. Lastly the proportion which Fulgentius Athanasius and others mention as deriued from the Scriptures that as the two parts of man after death were for sinne appointed to two seuerall places his soule to hell and his body to the graue so the Redeemer did â—…etch man backe againe from those two places of condemnation with the presence of his soule subduing hell and of his body resisting corruption this pâ—…oportion I say gâ—…ounded on the Scriptures is more then you can any way confute or open your mouth against with any trueth You aske why this going to hell by our Sauiour was not rather afâ—…er his resurrection when both paâ—…ts were ioined together First because by death which is the separating of the soule from the body Christ was to destroy both death and hell Next he was to rise conquerer of them both and not after his resurrection which was a conquest of both to reconquer them againe This therefore is an vnwise demand and sheweth that you doe not vnderstand what belongeth to Christs death or resurrection who was to rise the full conquerer and Lord of all his enemies in his owne person and not aâ—…ter his resurrection to make a new conquest ouer them And therefore your heaping of seuenteen places of Scripture in the margine of your booke to shew that Christ died and rose againe is to let men see that you haue emptied your note Booke and there find that Christ did rise from the dead To which if you will adde which is the true intent of all those places that Christ was to rise a perfect conquerer of death and hell you shall make so many proofes that Christ conquered both before and with his resurrection and by no meanes after it For his resurrection was manifest proofe that neither his soule was forsaken in hel nor his flesh left to see corruption in the graue and therefore both hell and death were perfectly subdued when he ioined againe his soule to his body and aduanced them both to an immortall and celestiall life Considering then whence the parts of Christs manhood were taken when he rose from the dead to wit his soule from hâ—…ll where it was not forsaken and his body from the graue where it was not corrupted you shall easily see if you doe not wilfully shut your eies that the power and force of Christs resurrection beganne with the subduing of hell by his soule and ouermastering putrifaction by his body Against whose soule and body since neither destruction nor corruption could preuaile it was not possible but he should rise vanquisher and Lord
vs. 132. 133 How Christ shall the second time appeare without sinne 27 How far Christs sufferings must be extended 343 How Christs soule was in his Fathers hands 549 How Christ was in Paradise the day of his death 549 How Christ was like vs in all things sinne excepted 86 How Christ might feare and yet be freed from it 486. â—…87 How Christ loosed the sorrowes of death 624 How Christ must rise from the dead 627 What Christ discerned in all his sufferings 317 What Christ vndertooke for vs. 324 What things Christ inwardly beheld in the garden 387 Why Christ might dislike the death of the body 398 The ioynt sufferings of Christ in his bodily death most auaileable for our saluation 68 Euery thing in Christ was meritorious but not satisfactorie for sinne 179. 180 Both body and soule must suffer in Christ. 130. 131 Christs bodily death part of the punishment of our sinnes 11 By Christs corporal punishment we are freed from spirituall and eternall 222. 223 Christs blood could not be shed but by Satan and his instâ—…uments 231 Christs recompence for the wrong receaued at Satans hands 232 Christs suffering without the gate of the city 113. 114 Christs death was most iust with God in respect of his will to saue vs. 262. 263 Christs death not exacted as a debt but â—…eceaued as a voluntarie sacrifice 264 Christs doings aboue mans reason 310 The nature measure and purpose of Christs sufferings 332 The paines of Christs soule as of his body were equall to the strength of his patience 334 Christs faith did not faile in the sharpest of his paines 335 All Christs sufferings were righteous and holie 344. 438 Christs words Iohn 12. auouch not contraries 482. are expounded 483 Christs senses were not ouerwhelmed with feare and sorrow 477 Christs feares and sorrowes not like the reprobates 448. 449. 450 We must not increase Christs sufferings at our pleasure 478 Christs passió did not kil his soul but his body 528 Christs conquest secureth our soules seuered from our bodies 670 Christs Soule was not tormented with Gods immediat hand 34 Christs Soule suffered but died not for vs. 133 Christ soule suffered by all her powers but not the death of the Soule 136. 137. 140 Christs Soule chiefe patient in paine and agent in merit 179 Christs Soule could not merit if it wanted vnderstanding and will 480 Christs Soule in her greatest paines did most shew the life of patience and obedience to God 524 Christs Soule was passible but died not 533 Christs Soule was not fastned to hell three daies 551 Christs Soule was in glory before his Body 669 Christs Soule liuing by grace could no way be dead 523 Neither Scriptures nor Fathers vnderstâ—…nd Christs Soule by his Body 426. 427 Christs Soule was not crucified through infirmity 510 Christâ—… Soule was not vnder the dominion of death 650 What wee must beware in the sufferings of Christs Soule 536 Many writers teach the sufferings of Christs Soule without the paines of hell 536 Why Christs Soule and not his Body was to conquere hell 668 It is not against the faith that Christes Soule should conquere hell 622 Christs manâ—…ood praied for that with all humilitie which hiâ—… person by â—…ight might haue chalenged 378 Christâ—… manhood might feare the glory of Gods iudgement 380 Christs manhood miâ—…ht feare the power of Gods wrath against our sinnes which he was to beare 380 Christs manhood might feare the sting of death as horrible to mans nature 381 Christs manhoode was to conquere hell 667. though by power of his Godhead 670 Christs flesh found no ease in death though his Soule were full of hope 424 Christs flesh was weake though his Spirite was willing 508 Christs flâ—…sh could not putrifie 623 Christs praier in the Garden was well aduised 397 Christâ—… praier was no maze 4â—…7 Christs praier was not against his Fathers will 397. 465. 466. 470. 471. 472 Christs praier was full of faith 474. 475 Christs praier was with condition and reseruation of Gods will 382 Compassion and pittie are alwaies painfull 27 Compassion is affliction though it be a vertue 438 Christ more compassiâ—…nate then Moses or Paul 359 Christs complaint on the Crosse. 409 How many senses it may beare 418. 420. 421 The first sense 416 The second sense 418 The third sense 421 The fourth sense 430 The fift sense 432 The sixt sense 433 The Saints compâ—…aint in their afflications 418 The euent of Christs coâ—…plaint on the Crosse. 419 No shame for Christ to complaine on the Crosse as he did 420 Leo maketh Christs complaint on the Crosse an instruction no lamentation 432 We were conceaued in sin before we were quickned with life 173 Mans flesh is defiled in conception before the soule is created and infused 174. 175 None can be euerlastingly condemned for anothers fault 363 Christs conquest ouer hell and death 667 was ordered most to Satâ—…ns shame 669 Contradictions obiected by the Defender are easily answered 69 Contradictions in the Defender 320 A shamefull contradiction of the Defender 423 The words of the Creed examined 648 How long this clause of Christs descent to hell hath beene in the Creede 653. 654 Hades in the Creede muâ—…t signifie hell 649 Hell in the Creede is no new translation 652 The Creede continued from the Apostles times 664 Twelue parts of the Creede â—…64 What Crâ—…sse of Christ it was that Paul so much reoiyced in 73. 74 75 How the Fathers and new writers expound that place 76. 77 How farre the Crosse of Christ extendeth it selfe by the Scriptures 79 We reioyce in the effects of Christs Crosse. 81 Christ was not voâ—…de of all comfort on the Crossâ—… 410. 411 What comfort Christ had on the Crosse. 412 The death of the Crosse the greatest exâ—…anition of Christ. 433 Christs Soule was not Crucified through infirmitie 501 Figuratiuely the Soule may be said to be Crucified 80 What Cup Christ dranke of 373 What Christ meant by the houre and Cup of his Passion 443 Christ and his members must drinke of one and the same Cup. 353 What part of the Curse Christ bare for our sinnes 234. 235 Hanging on a tree was not the whole Curse of the Law 236 A double Curse of sinne 236 Two kindes oâ—… Câ—…rses in the Law 239 The bodily death which Châ—…ist suffered was the Curse which he sustained 240 Cursing and blâ—…ssing compared doe manifest each the other 249 What is true Cursing and blessing from God 250 How Christ was made a Curse for vs. 257 Christs death was a kinde of Curse 259 Christ vndertooke to satisfie but not to suffer our Curse 260 The Curse for sinne is triple 266 Cyprian wrested by the Defender 274 D D Amnation What paines are essentiall to it 37. 39 The horror of Gods iudgements not neere the paines of the Damned 227 The Godly in this life feele not the paines of the damned 320 Sharper paines are reserued for the damned then now they feele 334 Christ was not
no death of the Soule 519 The Fathers professe true fire to be in hell 46 The Fathers plainly remoue the death of Christs Soule from the worke of our redemption 330. 331 All Christs Feares were holy 215 Feare and sorrow in Christ were sufferings for sinne 345 Christs Feare in the Garden was religious 371 Christs â—…eare and sorrow were painfull but religious sufferings 372 What Feare and sorrow Christ was to yeelde vnto God when he offered the ransome of our sinnes 374 What things Christ might iustly and greatly feare in the Garden 380 â—…eare may be intellectâ—…ue or sensitiue 383 Christ might feare many thinges besides hell paines 385 Why Christ feared more then Mattyrs doe 395 Christ might iustly feare the pâ—…wer of Gods wrath 380 Figuratiuely the Soule may be said to be crucified 80 Fire in hell is not allegoâ—…icall 40. 41. 42. 43 The Fathers professe tâ—…ue fire to be in hell 46 It is possible that brimstone may bee mingled with fire in hell 47 The same fire punishâ—…th the wiâ—…ked both bâ—…fore and after iudgeâ—…ent 55 What fire did signifie in sacrifices 112. 113 What fire might note in the holocaust 116 How Christ was Forsaken on the crosse 409 How farre and wherein Christ was Forsaken are the things questioned 414 What forsaking could not be found in Christ 414 We were forsaken of God till Christ 〈◊〉 vs by his death 417 Christ neuer forsaken of hope and comfoâ—…t â—…7 God shewed by the present euent that he had not forsaken hâ—…s sâ—…nne 419 We stâ—…iue not for the word but for the sense and maner of forsaâ—…ing 431 G GEhenna was not vsed in speaking to the Gentiles 618 God can doc more then he will 23 Gods loue to Christ appeared euen in his death 20. 21 Gods purpose in the death and crosse of Christ. 154. 155. 156 God vseth meanes and instruments in punishing 33 God tempereth loue and iustice in punishing his elect 147. 255 God worketh good by euill 254 God is iust as well in forgiuing as in punishing sin 262 God was able to saue vs otherwise then by Christs death 287 God was the author of all Christes afflictions but not with his immediate hand 298. 299 God vieth his creatures to performe his iudgements 302 God is the principal agent in all our sufferings but not with his immediate hand 302 Gods hand worketh whatsoeuer meanes he vseth 300. 301 Gods loue to his sonne ouerswaied his hatred to our sinnes 268 Gods iustice in subiecting Satans kingdome to Christs manhood 230 The Gospell differeth much from the Law 264 How the Graue is aâ—… habitation for the godly 575 God would not haue our flesh as yet freed from the Graue 670 Christ was not Guilâ—…y of our sinne though he took our punishment on him 162. 163 The whole man is guilty of all sinne 185. 186 187. 208 Guilty stretcheth as well to the punishment as to the fact .266 A mediator not guilty of the sinne for which he doth mediate 276 H HAdes what it signifiâ—…th with the Greeke Fathers 589. 590. 591. 592. 593 Hades what it is with Chrylostom 589 Athâ—…nasius taketh Hades for hell 599. 6â—…0 Hades in Athanasius Creed is not the graue 659 Hades with Ignatius is not the graue 657 The soules of the godly are not in Hadâ—…s 602 Hades is a place of darkenesse 609 How Hades is vsed in the new Testament 629 Hades with new writers is the graue or hell 609. 610 611 Hades is a place vnder the earth 613 Hades an vnseene and darke place 618 Hades in the Creed must signifie hell 649 Hades is not the ignominie of the graue 651 Hades was first the name of the diuell 615 Hades is hell or the diuell in the new Testament 619 Hades is hell in the new Testament without any figure 621 Why Hades signifieth hell in the new Tâ—…stament 647 Hades with the Pagans was the place not the state of the dead 616 The whole created world is Hades with the Defâ—…nder 615 Hades in effect is nothing but death with the Defender 624 How 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and Inferi concurre in signification 579 How the Defender wauereth about Hades 619 How Hades is vsed in the Reuelation 642 How Hades shall be cast into hell fire 644 S. Luke maketh Hades a place of torment 621 What Hades Matth. 11. 23. is threatned to Capernaum 630 Many Greeke copies haue Act. 2. 24. the sorrowes of Hades 625 Hades in the Scriptures opposed to the highest heauens 635 Christ loosed the sorrowes of Hades 625. 626 The wall of Hades not broken but by Christ. 657 Hades hath not all the dead 646 Hades followeth after death 643 Hades taken for the rulers or persons in hell 647 The soules of the godly are not in Hades 602 Hanging on a tree was not the whole curse of the law 236 Hanging on the crosse a cursed kind of death 237 Innocents and penitents not truely accursed though Hanged on a tree 238 Hard speeches should rather bee qualified then strained to the highest 271 All affections make sensible alterations in the Heart 1â—…3 194 The heart is the seat of mans affections and actions 2â—…3 The Hâ—…art suggesting euill sinneth 311 The ioyes of Heauen are proper to the place 455 456 The sight of God in this life â—…uch differeth from the sight of his face in Heauen 456 The Saints of God had some sight of God in earth but not comparable to that in Heauen 460 The soules â—…re not yet in the same height of Heauen where Christ is 5â—…0 541 How many Heauens the Scriptures make 541. 542 The graces of God in earth are not the ioyes of Heauen 461 Why the Heauens are compared with hell in the Scriptures 634 God is not the immediate and principall inâ—…cter of Hell paines 2â—… 29 The sentence of the iudge containeth the essence of Hell paines 35 Christ suffered not the substance of hell paines 36 Reiection from Gods kingdome essentiall to Hell paines 37. 38 Malediction essentiall to Hell paines 38 Hell fire is not allegoricall 40. 41 42. 43. 49. 53 54 I neuer said Hell fire was materiall 44 The Fathers professe tâ—…ue fire to be in Hell 46 51. 52 So doe later Diuines 49. 50 It is possible that brimstone may be mingled with fire in Hell 47 Chaines there are in Hell though not of iron â—…7 Whether there be true fire in hel before the iudgment is not the question 54 Christ suffered not the essentiall part of hell paines 56 Hell paines not the cause of Christs agonie 58. 59 The sharpnesse of Hell paines 60 The foretast of iudgement in Hell is neither full finall perpetuall nor genâ—…rall 210 Positiue punishment now in Hell 214 The suffering of Hell paines no way necessarie to our saluation 220 Men may feare but not feele the truâ—… paines of hel in this life 320 The paines of hell are no naturall affections 383 Christ might feele somewhat extraordinarie yet not the paines of hell 391 The vehemencie of hell
paines passe the patience of Men and Angels 450 The true paines of hell are not felt in this life 451. 462 The true paines of hell are proper to the place 454. 455 The true paines of hell are aboue and against nature 464. 465 We must not reâ—…oyce in suffering helâ—… paines 441 A broken spirit is not the paines of hell 516 Christ brought vs backe from hell 607 No place for soules vnder earth but hell 614 It is not against the faith that Christs Soul should conquere hell 622 Christ must rise conquerer of death and hell 628 The Iewes were promised their Messias should conquere hell 628 All the names of hell prooue it to be in the earth 632 Hell is in the earth yet some diuels in the aire 633 Why the heauens are compared with hell in the Scriptures 634 Our victorie against death and hell not full till the last day 637 638 Christ â—…th the keyes of death and of hell 642. 643 Nothing but persons cast into hell 645 The Defender maketh three hells in steede of one 645 Christs spoâ—…ling of hell precedent to his resurrection 673 Hereticke alwaies vrged the same places that the Defender doth 425 What the Holocaust did signifie 111. 112 What â—…ire might note in the Holocaust 116 I. IMmediate What suffering is Immediate from â—… God 27. 32 God is not the Immediate and principall inflicter of hâ—…ll paines 2â—… 29 Christs soule was not tormented with Gods Immed aâ—…e hand 34 God can punish the soule by meanes without his Immediate hand 219 God the author of all Christs afflictions but not by his Immediate hand 298. 299 God is the principall agent in all our sufferings but not with his Immediate hand 302 How 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and Infers concurre in signification  What place Tertullia taketh Inferi to be 585. 586 Inferi are places and persons vnder the earth 5â—…7 Inferi are not now the place and state of good and bad deceased 588 Saint Austin taketh Inferi for hel and not for the state of the dead 198. 590 The soules of the godly are not in Inferi 602 Infernus with the latin fathers is more theÌ„ death 603 Inferi not found in the Scriptures in any good sense â—…04 Inferi no place for the godly after Christes resurrection 605 Infernus is not the place nor state of all soules deceased 606 Christ did not suffer paines truely Infinite 161 Christs Infirmitie was voluntarie 407 Christs Infirmitie was power 416 How all the kingdomes of the earth might bee shewed vnto Christ in an Instant 308. 309 Irenaeus did write in Greeke 584 Where Irenaeus thought Christs soule was after death 583. 584 The rule of Iustice suffereth the stronger to beare the burden of the weaker 292 Gods Iustice in subiecting Satans kingdome to Christs manhood 230 Gods Iustice might punish Christs bodie but not Christs soule with death 337 The Iudgement of God to which Christ submitted himselfe for our redemption 348 Gods Iudgement for our redemption concerneth Christ men and Angels 348 In this Iudgement God required of Christ satisfaction for the sinnes of men 349 K K 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 what it signifieth 625 Christ hath the Keyes of death and of hell 642. 643 Kindred goeth by blood and not by the soule 509 Our naturall Knowledge commeth by sense 196 The meanes of mans Knowledge 199 Our loue and ioy doe follow our Knowledge 462 L LEo maketh Christs words on the Crosse an instruction no lamentation 432 How Christ was like vs in all things sinne excepted 86. 324 Christ not like vs in any sinfull affections 322 How Christ was like vs in his sufferings 323 Christ not like vs in any want of grace or touch of sinne 326 To what lower parts of the earth Christ descended 554 What is ment by the lower parts of the earth 555 The lower earth is all one with the lower Sheol 556 The lower Shcol signifieth hell and not the graue 557. 558 The lower earth Ezechiel vseth for hell 561 The lower parts of the earth are hell 562 M MArtyrs and Malefactors haue a stronge conflict with death though we perceaue it noâ—… 389 The glory of Martyrs were not great if their paines were not great 390. 391 Martyrs find ioy and ease after death but not in death 301 Why Christ feared more then Martyrs doe 395 Christs senses might not be ouerwhelmed as Martyrs are 396 The manner of breathing out Christs Soule was miraculous 87. 88. 89. 90 The Fathers obserue that it was miraculous 91. 92. 93 So doe the new writers 94 Moses praier for the people examined 359 The purpose of Moses praier for the people 360 How Moses in his praier is excused from sin 365 Moses face did shine when he know it not 461 Moses was not amazed in his prayer 368 N THe name of nature in the graces of God and ioyes of heauen is a vaine distinction 461 There was no necessitie in our redemption but Christs will power and libertie 283 284. 285 The Fathers disclaime all necessitie in the death of Christ. 285 No necessitie in the death of Christ 286 Christs feare and agony came not from necessitie but from his humilitie and feruencie 339 Neither necessitie nor infirmitie could oppresse Christ. 405 New wâ—…iters teach the sufferings of Christs Soule without the paines of hell 536 New writers teach Christs descent to hell 546. 547 New writers obserue Christs manner of dying to haue beene miraculous 94 O OLeuians coniectures for his sense of Christs descent to Hades are but weake 631 P. PAines of this life Christ did beare but not of hell 217. 218 Christes Paines might be vnknowen and yet not the paines of hell 161 In outward Paines men perceiue and acknowledge Gods hand vpon them 170 Paines proper to the soule are not by and by the paines of hell 214 All Christs Paines were holy 215 More required in our ransome then onely Paines 216 We cannot iudge of other mens Paines 328. Excessiâ—…e Paine bringeth death 447 How Christ was in Paradise the day of his death 549 The Parable of the strong man bound and spoyled â—…74 Christes Patience was greater then any mans whatsoeuer his paines were 394 How Christs patience exceeded all mens 395 Christs patience at the highest before he complained on the crosse 418 Saâ—…nt Paul 1. Cor. 15. keepeth the true sense of the Prophet Osee. 641 Pauls wish for the Iewes considered 360 The time was when Paul so wished Ibid. If Paul spake of the time when he wrote his words were conditionall Ibid. What Paul meant when he wished to be separated from Christ for the Iewes 361. 362 How the Grecians expound Pauls words 361 How Paul in his wish was excused from sinne 365 Paul wished if it were possible or lawfull 366 Paul was not amazed in his prayer 368 The true sense of Pauls and Moses words Rom. 10. 567 568. Positiue punishment now in hell 214 No Positiue thing common to good and bad after death 581 Christ suffered not