ourselues vnrâ—…ghteous and odious vnto him And yet in mercy towaâ—…ds â—…s and honor â—…wards his Sonne God would make him the Redeemer and Sauiour of the world not neglecting his Iustice nor forgetting his loue but so mixing them both together that his dislike of our sinnes might appeare in the punishment of them and his relenting from the rigor of his Iustice in fauour of his onely Sonne might magnifiâ—… his mercy satisfie his wrath and enlarge his glory and declare in most ample manner the submission compassion and peâ—…fection of his Sonne as only worthy to performe that worke which procured and receaue that honor which followed mans Redemption Christ then suffered from the hand of God but mediate that is GOD DELIVERED him into the hands of sinners who were Satans instruments with all eproach and wrâ—…nge to put him to a contumelious and grieuous death God by his â—…ecret wisdome and iustice decâ—…eeing appointing and ordering what he should suffer at theiâ—… hands Our sinnes â—…e bare in his body on the tree not that his soule was free from feare sorrow 〈◊〉 derision and temptation but that the wicked and malitious â—…ewes practised all kind of shamefull violence and cruell tortuâ—…es on him by Whipping Racking pricâ—…ing and wounding the tenderest parts of his body whereby his soule â—…elt extreame and intoleâ—…able paines In all which he saw the determinate counsell of God and receaued in the garden from his father this Iudgement for our sinnes that he should be 〈◊〉 dâ—…liuered into the hands of sinners For had he not humbly submitted himselfe to obey his fatheâ—…s will no power in earth could haue preuailed against him but as he had often fortold his Disciples what the Priestes Scribes and Gentils should doe vnto him so when the hower was come which was foreappointed of God to obey his fathers will he yeelded himselfe into their hands they persuing him to death of enuie and malice but God thus perfourming euen by their wicked hands what he had â—…oreshewed by his Prophets that Christ should suffer For they not knowing him â—…or the wordâ—… of the Prophets fulfilled them in condemning him yea they fulfilled all things which were written of him So that no man shall need to runne to the immediate hand of God nor to the paines of hell for the punishment of our sinnes in the person of Christ the Iewes FVLFILLED ALL THINGS that were written of him touching his sufferings and therewith Gods anger against our sinnes was appeased and God himselfe reconciled vnto vs. Esay speaking of the violence done by the Iewes to Christ sayeth he was wounded for our transgressions and broken for our iniquities and with his stripes we are healed Thus the Lord layed vpon him the iniquitie of all vs and he bare our sinnes in his body on the tree by those sufferings before and on the Crosse which the Scriptures expresly declare and describe And as for the immediate hand of God tormenting the soule of Christ with the selfe same paines which the damned now suffer in hell which is this deuisers maine drift when he maketh or offereth any proofe thereof out of the word of God I shall be ready to receiue it if I can not refute it till then I see no cause why euery wandring witte should imagine what monsters please him in mans redemption and obtrude them to the faithfull without any sentence or syllable of holy Scripture I haue no doubt but all the godly will be so wise as to suffer no man to raigne so much ouer their faith with fancies and figures vnwarranted by the Scriptures vnknowen to all the learned and ancient councels and Fathers vnheard of in the Church of Christ till our age wherein some men applaude more their owne inuentions then all humane or diuine instructions The feare of bodily sufferings you thinke could not be the cause that there strained out from Christ much sweat of clotted blood You straine the text of the Euangelist to draw it to your bent Saint Luke hath no such words that there strained out from Christ much sweat of clotted blood he sayth Christes sweat was like drops of blood trickling downe to the ground Theophylact a Greeke borne and no way ignorant of his mother tongue expresseth Christes sweat in the garden by these words 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Christes body or face DISTILLED with plentifull drops of sweat And albeit 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 sometimes signifie the congealed parts of that which is otherwise liquid and compacted pieces of that which els is poudered yet often it noteth that which is thickâ—… in comparison with thinner or eminent in respect of plainer Now Christes sweat might be thicke by reason it issued from the inmost parts of his bodie and was permixed with blood or els it might breake out with great and eminent drops as comming from him violently and abundantly and being coloured with blood and congealed with colde might trickle downe like DROPS or strings of blood vpon the ground Howsoeuer the Scripture saith not his sweate was clotted blood but like to congealed or cooled blood neither that such clots were strained out from him but that his sweate being thicked and cooled on his face fell from him like strings of blood But grant there could be no reason giuen of Christs bloodie sweat in the garden no more then there can be of the issuing first of blood and then of water out of his side when he was dead which S. Iohn doth exactly note as strange but yet true will you conclude what please you because many things in Christ both liuing and dying weâ—…e miraculous I bind no mans conscience to any probabilities for the cause of this sweate but onely to the expresse wordes and necessarie consequents of holy Scripture and yet I wish all men either to be sober and leaue that to God which he hath concealed from vs or if they will needes be gessing at the reason thereof for certaine knowledge they can haue none by no meanes to relinquish the plaine words or knowen groundes of holy Scripture to embrace a fansie of their owne begetting The learned and ancient Fathers haue deliuered diuers opinions of this sweate which thou mayest see Christian Reader in my Sermons and which we shall haue occasion anon to reexamine euery one of them being as I thinke more probable and more agreeable to Christian pietie then this Discoursers dreame of hell paines or Gods immediate hand at that present tormenting of the soule of Christ. And if we looke to the order and sequence of the Gospell we shall finde that feruent zeale extreamely heating the whole bodie melting the spirits thinning the blood opening the pores and so colouring and thicking the sweate of Christ might in most likelihood be the cause of that bloodie sweate Which S. Luke seemeth to insinuate when he saith that after Christ was comforted by an Angell from heauen and so recouered from his
owne words and hereafter by your leaue tell you it is a plaine lye and a meere shift if you father your termes of Christs meere blood and single bodie vpon me as any part of the Question which I mooued or Doctrine which I defend Wherefore I pray thee Christian Reader once more to take notice that I be not driuen in euery page to proue one and the same thing against the Discoursers vnsauery childish and Idle phrases with which he would faine elude the Scriptures and delude the world Your confession both of my Sermons and conclusion Sir Descourser is this Sundry times you teach that Christ did suffer peculiarly and seuerally some proper punishments in his soule besides his bodily sufferings yea that this was a part of his crosse and the effect of Gods wrath on his soule as well as the suffering in his body Against my words so often witnessed in my writings and so openly confessed by your selfe you take vpon you by some secret reuelation belike to know my meaning that no more but the shedding of Christs blood MEERELY is the full satisfaction of all our sinnes which MEERE BLOOD of Christ the Scriptures meane not nor onely his body SINGLY and SIMPLY considered The MEERE blood and SINGLE and SIMPLE body of Christ with such like couerts of your cause are termes fit for such a teacher as you are to which if you could once conuert the Question we must haue as many Lexicons to bring vs out of these Laberinthes as there be leaues in your booke Keepe them therefore as whelps of your owne litture the faith of Christ and the word of God hath stood without them these sixteene hundered yeeres What I meane by the body and blood of Christ giuen and shed for our Redemption and the remission of our sinne I haue meetly well expressed I must not in euery section fall to fresh repetitions When I speake as the Scripture speaketh I meane as the Scripture meaneth They know not your new termes of the MEERE blood nor of the single and simple body of Christ but by his blood and death they meane that manner of shedding his blood and that kind and course of death suffered in the body of his flesh which the Gospell describeth no way excluding from Christ when he presented himselfe before God to vndertake mans cause the due consideration of mans infirmitie and iniquitie abounding or of Gods iustice therewith displeased nor his humble and voluntary submission to the mightie hand and righteous will of his heauenly Father to excuse vs from the heauie iudgement that otherwise did hang ouer our heads So much as the Scriptures mention in declaring the manner of his death and bloodshedding so much they containe in the name of his Crosse blood and death For as the description which the holy Ghost maketh is in no point idle so the comprehension of all vnder one word excludeth nothing formerly described This I take to be a sound and sure way to expound the Scriptures by their owne direction and intention For since the manner and order of Christs death was so carefully regestred by the spirite of God that we should not be ignorant of it whensoeuer the Scriptures speake of Christs Crosse blood and death they referre vs to all that which either by the Prophets was foretold or in the Gospell is expressed touching the order and manner of his death And so Christ died for our sinnes according to the Scriptures as Paul addeth Then to take any thing from it which is mentioned in the Scriptures or to adde any thing to it which is not there expresly recorded is to depart from the word of trueth and to dishonor and deface the death and bloud of Christ with our inuentions This being my meaning euen from the beginning as my words declare I moued these two generall questions The first Whether in the crosse and death of Christ described in the Scriptures the death of the soule or the death of the damned were by any good warrant of the sayd Scriptures comprised Secondly Whether the crosse and death of Christ as the Scriptures describe them be not the full and perfect price of our redemption from sinne and reconciliation to God by the testimonie of the same Scriptures without the death of the soule or paines of the damned The Discourser finding himselfe inclosed with these questions speaketh directlie to neither and prooueth nothing in either but declining the enuie of these speeches the death of the soule and the paines of the damned which indeed are the points misliked and reiected he changeth the first question into the generall termes of suffering Gods wrath and the soules proper suffering which may import manie things besides those two and in the second he euery where beareth the Reader in hand that by the death and bloud of Christ I meane the MEERE bodily sufferings of Christ without anie sense or sorrow of the soule in her spirituall powers And lest the Scripture should stand in his way he casteth them all behinde him that any way witnesse the force and merit of Christes death and bloudshedding as figuratiue speeches because they name not the MEERE bloud of Christ nor only his body SINGLY considered But Sir all this while you forget that you haue proued nothing but onely supposed and auouched what pleased you and that in matters of faith you may not adde to the word of God without manifest apostasie The things questioned by me were the death of the soule and the verie paines of the damned as appeareth euidently by my words when I first mooued the question Of these you say nothing all this while which yet you must soundly fully proue before you may adde them to the words of the Holy ghost testifying the power vertue of Christes bloud and death Therefore howsoeuer you seeme to shift off the Scriptures as figuratiue speeches with your MEERE and SINGLE termes they will sticke faster by you than so For as there can be no doubt of my meaning comprising all in the death and bloud of Christ which the Scriptures report of the order and maner of his sufferings when he yeelded himselfe to die for the sinnes of the world according to the counsell of his Fathers wil so you may not presume any thing to be conteined in the death or crosse of Christ as requisite for our redemption which is not cleerely witnessed by the Scriptures Proue therefore by the Scriptures that Christ died the death of the soule or the death of the damned which are the true paines of hell and then adde it to the crosse of Christ when you will Till so you do the Scriptures which I haue produced stand in their full strength against you For as they bind all Christian men stedfastly to beleeue that which is written touching their redemption by the death and bloud of Christ so do they straitly prohibit all and euery be they men or Angels to adde any other
life of all And that this is most perfect charitie I will cite our Sauiour himselfe for a witnesse where he saith greater loue hath no man then to lay downe his soule for his friends By all this Christ teacheth his Disciples to be so farre from shunning daungers and troubles for the saluation of men that the death of the flesh must not be refused for euen to that doth charitie stretch Fulgentius an other of the Fathers on whom you would faine fasten your error of Christs redeeming our soules by the death of his soule and our bodies by the death of his body not only noteth when and how Christ laid downe his soule for vs but why that phrase is applyed to Christs death and to all theirs that die willingly for loue not necessarily vpon constraint The whole man Christ laid downe his soule when his soule departed his flesh dying on the crosse And so againe Christ dying in the flesh laid downe his Soule and shewing the difference betwixt deliuering the body to death and giuing or laying downe the soule He saith Where loue is not the body is said to be deliuered but not the soule to be laid downe as the vessell of election plainly testifieth If I giue my body to be burnt and haue no loue it auayleth me nothing Here Paule declareth that without loue the body may be yeelded but not the soule laid downe For where he purposeth to signifie the purenesse of his loue he thus writeth to the Thessalonians Our goodwill was to bestow on you not onely the Gospell of God but euen our owne soules and to proue this an effect of his loue he addeth because yee were deare vnto vs. So that it is proued by manifest witnesse of Scripture that there wanteth loue where the body onely is layed downe to death but there is charitie where the soule is laid downe together with the body Beda Ponere ergo animam mori est Sic Apostolus Petrus Domino dixit animam pro te ponam id est pro te moriar carne To lay downe the Soule is to die So the Apostle Peter said to Christ I will lay downe my Soule for thee that is I will die in the flesh for thee A good sheepeheard saith Christ layeth downe his soule for his sheepe He did that he taught he performed that he commaunded he laid downe his Soule for his sheepe and shewed vs a way to contemne death which we must follow and a paterne after which we must be Printed which is first to extend our outward works of mercie towards his sheepe then if neede be to offer our death for them The later writers are all of the same mind and expound those words of our Sauiour the Sonne of man came to serue and to giue his soule a ransome for many and I lay downe my soule for my sheepe to haue none other sense then that he would die for vs as the Fathers before them did expound the same Erasmus in his paraphrase expressing our Sauiours meaning in both places saith in the person of Christ Therefore I came euen to serue the welfare of all in so much that I thinke it no burden to giue my life by the losse of one soule to redeeme many And againe Therefore my Father loueth me singularly as his Sonne because of mine owne accord I bestowed my life for the safetie of my Fathers flocke Bullinger likewise in the person of our Sauiour I came to serue the good of all and that which is farre greater I came into this world to giue my life for sinners And so I yeeld my selfe to death and euen to the death of the crosse that my sheepe beleeuing in me may liue by my death And alleadging and relying on Saint Austens words on the same place he addeth out of Austen To lay downe the soule is to die So Peter the Apostle said to his Master I will lay downe my soule for thee that is I will die for thee Attribute this to the flesh for when the soule goeth out of the flesh and the flesh remaineth without a soule then is a man said to lay downe his soule What saith the Euangelist Christ bowing his head gaue vp the Ghost this is to lay downe the soule Musculus Christ declareth what his ministerie is euen to redeeme mortall men and the chiefest degree of this ministerie is that he would giue his soule for them Then are we redeemed by the onely begotten Sonne of God and that dearely euen with his owne death For the Lord of heauen and earth humbled himselfe vnto death and that vnto a most shamefull death What was more vile or more abiect in the world then the death of the crosse And in the person of Christ Therefore my Father loueth me because I lay downe my soule that is because I die for my sheepe Caluine vpon those words of Christ I came to giue my soule a Redemption for many Therefore Christ mentioneth his death that he might withdraw his Disciples from a peruerse imagination of an earthly kingdome In the meane time the force and fruite of his death is aptly and rightly expressed whiles he affirmeth his life to be the price of our Redemption Whence it followeth that the price of our reconciliation with God is no where found but in the death of Christ and so It is no maruaile that Christ affirmeth himselfe to be therefore loued of his Father because he esteemeth our saluation dearer then his owne life He would by this arme his Disciples least seeing him soone after to be caried to death they should faint in hart as if he were oppressed by his enimies but rather acknowledge it to be the wonderfull prouidence of God that he should die to redeeme the flocke Gualter Christ saith he came to giue his soule to be the price of Redemption for many This passeth all offices that men may yeeld one to another For as him selfe saith no man hath greater loue then this to giue his soule for his friends But he vouchsafeth to die for his enimies And dying for vs he bestowed life on vs because his death was a ransome sufficient for the sinnes of the world And so A good sheepeheard saith Christ layeth downe his soule for his sheepe b As if he should haue said who can deny him to be a good sheepeheard that so much loueth his sheepe as not to refuse to redeeme their safetie with the losse of his owne life And because the Sonne of God hath exposed or yeelded his life for vs who can doubt but he hath satisfied abundantly for vs Vitus Theodorus Christ saith the sonne of man came to minister and to giue his life for the Redemption of all That surely is the chiefest and truest loue and seruice when a man serueth his enimies with body and life And likewise in the person of Christ. I alone am the good
Christi potest ostendi commortua When Christ died in the flesh neither can the godhead nor the soule of Christ be shewed to haue bene also dead And of hell paines he saith Dignum fuit vt animam dolor non contigisset inferni quam seruitus nequiuit tenere peccati It was a meete and right thing that the paines of hell should not touch that soule whom the seruitude of sinne could not fasten on Yet Cyrill in the place aboue cited SEEMETH to acknowledge A KIND OF DEATH EVEN OF THE SOVLE from which Christ reuiued againe But of that in due place hereafter Is the death of Christs soule so slender a matter that you may collect it by a seeming and a kind of death without any mention or occasion of any such thing comprised in Cyrils words The Reader may there obserue what your maine intent is and whereon you fasten your eyes all this while euen on the death of Christs soule to be requisite for our Redemption though you finde no such thing in Scripture or Father but miserably and childishly slide it in at last with a seeming Now if there be no such thing in Cyrils words nor any such seeming how wel deserue you to be hissed out with hands if not to be hurled out by the heeles for a seeming sleeper if not for a waking dreamer what are those words of Cyrill that seeme to acknowledge the death of Christs soule Christ bestowed his flesh as a ransome for our flesh and made his soule likewise the price of redemption for our soules although he liued againe being by nature life it selfe It is lawfull for you to further euery place you bring with a mayned and forced translation Cyrils true words stand thus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Without constraint of any Christ of himselfe laide downe his owne soule for vs that he might be Lord of dead and quicke yeelding his flesh in recompence as a gift fully worth it for the flesh of all and making his soule or life a ransome for the soule or life of all though he reuiued againe being life by nature in that he was God The words which you would cite are heere no perfect sentence as hauing no principall verbe in them and therefore must be ioyned with the former and depend vpon the verbe 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Christ layd downe his soule which gouerneth the whole as appeareth also by the two participles 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 yeelding in recompence and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 making which must be directed by the same nominatiue case that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is and likewise by the opposition of the verbe 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 he reuiued Of what death Cyrill here speaketh is more then manifest by the words of our Sauiour here vsed and deriued from the Gospell where he said None taketh my soule from me or constraineth me to die I lay it downe of my selfe and likewise the Sonne of man came to giue his soule or life a ransome for many What kind of death those words of Christ imported I made it appeare but a little before by the full consent of Scriptures and interpreters old and new and of Cyrill himselfe who all with one accord referre both those sayings to the death of Christs bodie and the losse of his life on the Crosse when his soule departed from him Set that downe in Cyrils first words for the death which Christ died by the constant assertion of Scriptures Fathers New writers and of Cyrill himselfe and then the words which you alleage shew plainely the force of his corporall death to be auaileable for the bodies and soules of all men in that his flesh yeelded to death was a recompence or exchange for all mens flesh and his soule laide downe without constraint of any was the ransome of all mens soules and he notwithstanding rose againe the third day to life by his owne power as being God and life it selfe against whom death could preuaile no farder nor longer then hee him selfe would Where are the words that acknowledge the death of Christs Soule or that so much as seeme to acknowledge a kind of death in the soule of Christ Here are the cleane contrarie For if the death of Christs bodie by which he laid aside his soule for vs be sufficient to redeeme the bodies and soules of all men then superfluous and needlesse euen by these words was the death of Christs soule the whole being fully perfourmed without it But he gaue his flesh to be a ransome for our flesh and his soule for our soules you say and yet liued againe Cyrill doth not say by seuerall deaths but by one and the same death which was the laying down of his soule or life for vs as Christ himselfe in the Gospel said he would If those wordes inferre the death of Christes soule why bring you not the words of Christ himselfe saying The Sonne of man came to giue his soule a ransome for many You saw the Scriptures themselues and the whole Church of Christ first and last I meane all old and new writers translators and expositors would condemne your folly therin in most exact words taking soule there for life which must needes import the death of Christs bodie And therefore you thought it more safetie to catch at the same words in some Father for whose meaning there could not be brought so many and so sound deponents But all in vaine For if Christ had no meaning in those wordes to point out the death of his owne soule then Cyrill alleaging and obseruing the words of Christ can haue no such purpose as to crosse the Scriptures himselfe and all the Fathers of Christs Church in a matter so dangerous and desperate as the death of Christs soule amounteth vnto In the meane while his words conclude no such thing neither in saying nor in seeming and so your embracing them to that end argueth your good will to seeke but your euill lucke to finde any such thing as the death of Christs soule in all the Fathers Cyrill doth not say Christ rose againe which properly belongeth to the body but he reuiued or liued againe which seemeth to be spoken of the Soule Then Saint Paul maketh more for you then Cyrill doth for he affirmeth both os Christ to this end saith he Christ died and rose againe and reuiued that he might be Lord of dead and liuing And indeed resurrection properly noteth from whence Christ arose to wit from the graue Reuiuing expresseth the blessed and glorious life which he enioyed after he was risen from the dead Christ himselfe saith of his they shall come forth of their graues vnto the resurrection of life to separate them from the wicked who shall come likewise forth vnto the resurrection but of iudgement and condemnation Notwithstanding in Christ there is either no difference betwixt them the one euer implying the other or if we make any Christs reuiuing alwaies presupposeth
you mightily mistake mistranslate yet make they nothing for you but against you directly Writing against Praxeas that denied the Father and the Sonne to be two distinct persons and taught that the Father became sonne to himselfe l 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ca. 2. and was made man and crucisied after many proofes to shew the person of the sonne to be different from the person of the father he citeth those words of Christ on the crosse My God my God why hast thou forsaken me and saith m Ibid. ca. 30. hâ—…c vox carnis animae idest hominis non sermonis nec spiritus id est Dei propterea emissa est vt impassibilem Deum ostenderet qui sic filium dereliquit dum hominem eius trâ—…didit in mortem Caeterum non reliquit Pater Filium in cuius manibus Filius spiritum suum posuit Denique posuit statim obijt Spiritu enim manente in carne caro omnino mori non potest Ita relinqui a Patre fuit mori filio This voice of the flesh and soule that is of the man not of the word nor of the spirit that is not of God was therefore spoken to shew that God is impassible who so left his sonne whiles he deliuered his manhood to death Yet the Father did not altogether forsake the sonne into whose hands the sonne breathed out his spirit For he breathed it out and straighâ—…way died Whiles the spirit remained in the flesh the flesh could not die at all So that to be forsaken of the Father was in the sonne to die Here are the words of Tertullian in order as they stand Where it is euident that he affirmeth no death nor forsaking in Christ but only that when the spirit left the body His words are plaine The Father forsocke not the sonne into whose hands the sonne deposed his spirit For he laid it downe and died So to be forsaken of the Father was this for the sonne to die by laying downe his spirit or soule as before he prooueth Christ did Then suffered Christ no death of the soule since he died not till he breathed out his spirit into his fathers hands and other forsaking the sonne felt none then so to die by the separation of his soule from his body Now touching the voice of the soule and the flesh whereof Tertullian speaketh What forsaking 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of either he maketh three parts in man as the Apostle doth Thess 1 5. verse 23. the spirit the soule and the body and then the soule noteth the operations of life and sense which were to cease for the time by death or els he affirmeth this voice came from both soule and body because the soule was to be separated from her body by death as well as the body to be left dead both which are a kind of forsaking Other death he nameth none here then to die by breathing out the spirit And so long as the spirit abideth in the flesh the flesh he saith cannot die at all Christ therefore endured no death whiles his spirit did abide in his body and consequently no death of the soule and when he breathed out his spirit he straightway died which was the forsaking that he complained of in those words So that all your collections heere out of Tertullian are your additions to Tertullian and not so much as one of them to be found or fet from his text He speaketh not a word that Christ n Defenc. pag. suffered in both these parts from his father nor that this death or forsaking o li. 15. was ment of the flesh and of the 1 12. li. 20. soule as you falsly translate him And as for Tertullians confirming that p li. 26. heresie of Christes being no true naturall man except Christ suffered q li. 23. the stroke of Gods hand in his soule as the proper vengcance of sinne this is your blinde deuice absurdly foisted into Tertullian without any word or letter sounding that way r Defenc. pag. 112. li. 31. This dereliction of which he speaketh is more 〈◊〉 the separation of the soule and bodie euen the separation of the deitie from the whole manhood which is the death of the soule I speake nothing here but the Fathers words yea the Scriptures Your setting vnto Tertullian Tertullian nameth no death but of Christes bodie your owne sense is an impudent attempt and the weakest argument that can be when you tell vs he meaneth so though he speake not one word touching the death of the soule but as exactly as he can or should nameth the death of the bodie by this that he sayth Denique spiritum posuit statim obijt Spiritu enim manente in carne caro omnino mori non potest Christ layd downe his spirit and straightway died For whiles the spirit remained in the flesh the flesh could not die at all What was it to lay downe his spirit into his fathers hands as the Scripture speaketh of Christ on the crosse but to die the death of the body Those very words Tertullian here citeth and vseth and thereby prooueth the Father had not inwardly forsaken the sonne since the sonne by the manifest words of himselfe reported in the Euangelist commended and yeelded his spirit to his fathers hands So that against the death of the soule Tertullians words are pregnant for how did the soule die that was commended into Gods hands and other death Tertullian nameth nor meaneth none but only this Denique spiritum posuit statim obijt Christ laied downe his spirit into his fathers hands and straightway died As for your speaking nothing heere but the fathers and the Scriptures words beware you take not vp the Diuels trade to keepe their words and peruert their sense It is no great mastery to abuse mens words yea the word of God which all Hereticks haue euer drawen to their owne false and wicked purposes s Defenc. pag. 112. li. 34. Your owne place of Epiphanius saith that now his deity departed from his manhood So saith your owne Hilarie also Corporis vox contestata recedentis a se Dei dissidium So saith Ambrose clamauit homo diuinitat is separatione moriturus The man Christ did crie being about to die by the separation of his Godhead You alleage three places to this purpose and either corrupt or peruert all three most apparantly â—…piphanius saith that Christs deity TOGETHER WITH THE SOVLE departed from his sacred body which is as plaine a description of bodily death as may be vttered You leaue out the words TOGETHER WITH THE SOVLE as crossing your course and turne the body into the soule meaning by this corruption to load Epiphanius with a sense cleane contrarie to his owne Hilaries words spoken of Christes body you enlarge to the whole manhood of Christ and thence conclude directly against Hilaries meaning and words that the deity departed from both where as Hilarie professeth of Christ t Hilarius
de Trinitate li. 10. Derelinqui se ad mortem questus est sed TVNC confessorem suum secum in Regno Paradisi recepit Christ complained that he was forsaken or left vnto death but EVEN THEN he receiued the Thiefe that consessed him into the kingdome of Paradise iointly with himselfe Ambroses words are u Ambros in Luc. li. 10. de commendatione spiritus in 〈◊〉 Patris Clamauit homo diuinitatis sepâ—…ratione moriturus The man Christ cried not then dead in soule when he cried as you would haue it but ready to die or that after should die when he yeelded his spirit into his fathers hands The very next sentence before sheweth that this departing was of the diuinity from the body to leaue that vnto death x Ibidem Euidens manifestatio contestantis Dei secessionem diuinitatis corporis A manifest speach of God witnessing the departure of his diuinity from his bodie So that by no meanes Ambrose euer imagined that Christes soule died but as he expresseth himselfe in the same Chapter y Ibidem Caro moritur vt resurgat spiritus Patri commendatur vt pax fuerit in Caelo The flesh dieth that it might rise againe the spirit is commended to God the father that peace might be established in the heauens Thus shortly haue you taken the paines to produce three Fathers for the death of Christes soule and haue as shamefully peruerted and inuerted euery one of them which is no newes with you and yet all that you can conclude out of them may amount to a pestilent heresie if you will that the vnion of Christes person was dissolued for the time of his death but it can neuer inferre any thing pertinent to your purpose z Defenc. pag. 113. li. 4. Here the Fathers do sâ—…ew indeed that Christ died but more than a meere bodily death euen the death of the soule also Heere the Fathers are exquisitly belied and falsified otherwise that Christes soule died they offer neither word nor syllable sounding that way And though you can not speake trueth in so false a cause yet you should learne to speâ—…ke coherently You grant they auouch here that Christ died the death of the bodie and more euen the death of the soule also whereas it is euident by the words of the holy ghost as also by your owne positions that Christ neither did nor could die these two deaths at one time For by the manifest witnesse of the Euangelist Christ a Luc. 22. 〈◊〉 his spirit into his Fathers 〈◊〉 and so died Then most certeinly the soule of Christ was accepted and receiued into the hands of God which I trow is life and not death when the bodie was left to death Wherefore if their words concerne his bodily death they by no meanes admix the death of the soule since they all affirme aâ—… the Scripture doth that Christ committed his soule to his Fathers hands and so died of which death they say he spake in those words Why hast thou left me that is to die as they expound it Now if you affixe any death to the soule of Christ I hope you will free him from it before he commended his soule into his Fathers hands And so the one must be ended before the other could enter and consequently if they spake of the latter their words haue no intent to implie the other But what dispute we of their meaning when their words are so manifest that you can not hale them to your hell-paines but by shamefull corrupting of their sentences and wilfull misconstruing the bodie for the soule b Defenc. pag. 113. li. 6. What is the separation of the deitie from his soule els but the death of his soule Which of these Fathers doth auouch the separation of Christes deitie from his soule Is it so small a mote in your eye that Christes deitie was separated from his humane soule that you may loosely and lightly surmise it by disordering and altering other mens words At this speech of Ambrose you could not so grosly haue stumbled had you but read the Master of the Sentences who long since in one whole distinction of his third booke examined those words and answered as the trueth is that separation in that place was taken for want of protection and withholding Christes power whiles the bodie died c Sententiarum li. 3. dist 21. Separauit se 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 subtraxu protectionem Separauit se foris vt non esset ad defensionem sed non 〈◊〉 defuit ad vnionem Si non ibi cohibuisset potentiam sedexercuisset non 〈◊〉 Christus The deitie seuered it selfe because it withdrew protection It separated it selfe outwardly not to defend but if failed not inwardly to continue the vnion If it had not refrained but exercised power Christ could not haue died Theodoret calleth this dereliction d In Psal. 21. The permission of the deitie that the humanitie might suffer And Isychius sayth e 〈◊〉 in 〈◊〉 li. 5. ca. 16. Diuinit as abijsse dicitur cohibens propriam virtutem ex humanitate vt daret spacium Passioni Christs deitie is sayd to depart by withholding his owne power from his humanitie that he might giue time to his Passion Otherwise it is a certaine truth which â—…ulgentius teacheth f Ad 〈◊〉 lib. 3. Licet in Christi morte carnem morieâ—…tem fuisset anima desertura diuinit as tamen Christi nec ab anima nec à carne posset separari suscepta Though in Christes death the soule were to forsake the bodie dying yet the deitie of Christ could not be seuered from the soule nor from the bodie once assumed g Defenc. pag. 113. li. 7. Howbeit note I pray that neither the Fathers nor I do meane any separating of the vnion of both natures in Christ nor the separating of any holinesse or habituall grace of God from his soule nor the separating of Gods loue from him but the separation of all comfortable feeling and assistance of the Godhead This separation is meant and may be called the death of the soule If you separate none of these what then is it that you separate from the soule of Christ to proue it dead All comfortable feeling and assistance of the Godhead He knew himselfe to be personally God and man he saw his soule full of all truth and grace he was assured the loue of God towards him could neither faile nor change he knew that his obedience and sacrifice were acceptable to his Father and should be the redemption of the world and he was most certaine that the third day he should rise againe into immortall and celestiall glory hauing men diuels and angels euen all things in heauen and earth subiect to his manhood Were all these no comforts or was there no assistance of the Godhead in these Nay take but your owne words a little before that Christ on the crosse euen when he complained of his forsaking was in h Pag.
God Esay saith p Esa. 53. v. 4. We did iudge him as plagued and smitten of God but he was wounded for our transgressions And S. Marke when the Iewes had crucified Christ amidst two theeues saith q Mark 15. vers 28. Thus the Scripture was fulsilled which saith he was counted among the wicked Thereby noting their errour not Christs desert Besides it is somewhat saucily said that Christ was accounted wicked in the righteous iudgement of God not by the malitious error of the Iewes Such pleasure you take against both Scriptures and Fathers to auouch what you list yea though it draw with it an iniurious slander to the sonne of God The words of the Prophet he t vers 9. made his graue with the wicked compared with those that solow though he did no wickednesse clearely conuince that Christ was an innocent though he were counted and vsed with malefactours and that the Prophet neuer ment to correct Gods iudgement as corrupt but to shew the wisedome and goodnesse of God deliuering his Sonne to be esteemed and vsed as wicked by the wicked and not by himselfe Howbeit there is no necessity to referre these words to the person of God the Father but they more fittely expresse the humility of Christ himselfe who made his graue that is was content to die in the midst of two Theeues and to be buried as they were considering the coherence with the words precedent which out of all question must be vnderstood of Christ himselfe For thus they stand s vers 8. He was cut out of the land of the liuing he was plagued for the transgression of my people t vers 9. He made his graue with the wicked Where no reason forceth any change of persons and so the same person of Christ who was cut from the land of the liuing made his graue with the wicked u Defenc. pag. 143. li. 11. But chiefly considering withall that also before he made his soule a sinne offering Therefore you must needs graunt that Gods word maketh Christs soule to be sacrificed for our sinne And we desire no other death of the soule It is maruaile you doe not out of this place inferre that Christs soule was made sinne for the words are when he shall make his soule sinne But an offering for sinne is the vsuall signification of that word in the Scriptures and therefore you did well in confessing so much to saue me that labour Christ then made his soule an offering for sinne what deduce you out of those words we desire no other death of the soule In faith you be a sillie sacrificer that know not a dead soule A dead soule is no sacrifice for sinne to be no sacrifice for sinne A dead soule is void of all things which should please God and so can be no sacrifice accepted for sinne x Psal. 51. A troubled spirit sorrowing for sinne is a sacrifice to God saith Dauid But doth repentance kill or quicken the soule God y Acts 11. giueth repentance vnto life that is he raiseth the soule first dead in sinne by repentance vnto life z 2. Cor 7. Worldly sorrow causeth death but Godly sorrow causeth repentance vnto saluation Now saluation is not the death but life of the soule a Hebr. 11. Without faith it is impossible to please God And the sacrifice that shall abolish sinne must needs please God It must then not want faith by which the righteous liue Wherefore by your leaue I make the cleane contrarie conclusion out of those wordes The soule of Christ was a sacrifice for sinne but a dead soule is no sacrfice for sinne the soule of Christ therefore was not dead Without death you will say there is no redemption for sinne Without bloud which noteth the death of the bodie there is no redemption for sinne but the soule I trust hath no bloud to be shed And so much the bodies of beasts offered did prefigure I meane the death of the bodie but not of the soule Willing obedience constant patience and assured confidence in the soule of Christ submitting it selfe to the counsell and will of his Father was the spirituall and inward sacrifice which Christ ioyned with the externall and bloudie sacrifice of his bodie For hauing two parts as all men haâ—…e a soule and a bodie neither part might be withdrawen from this sacrifice but his bodie must be yeelded vnto death and his soule must yeeld her selfe pure vndefiled and void of all spot yet feeling and enduring withall meekenesse and humblenesse of heart the paine of death separating her from her bodie And graunt the soule were heere taken for life what so great improper or vnused speach is that since the soule is truely and properly the life of the body b Defenc. pag. 143. li. 16. We denie not but this phrase Animam ponere is to lay downe the life and in diuers placâ—…s signifieth no more then simply to die both concerning Christ and other men yet this is no necessarie reason that heere in I say the soule should be taken figuratiuely for the life onely the rather seeing heere the text precisely setteth downe the great worke of our redemption and to take it as we doe literally impugneth no ground at all of faith or charitie The words to lay downe or power forth the soule import as you confesse not the death of the soule but the death of the bodie And since in the words of Esai Christ powred forth his soule vnto death there can by no learning bee more concluded out of that place but that Christ willingly layd downe his soule to depart from that bodie which is no way the death of the soule as you fansie but a plaine description of the death of Christs body And where for your pleasure you will take it litterally that is no proofe for the death of Christs soule because the word soule may bee properly taken when it is powred forth of the bodie by death but it noteth a willing submission to death where otherwise our soules are taken from vs or we loose them whether we will or no when we are left or put to death against our wils c Defenc. pag. 143. li. 27. Austen hath not a word against vs in that great place which you cite his whole argument being to an other purpose Austins wordes in that place be pregnant against you for all your dissembling d August in Iohannem tractat 47. Quid fecit passio quid fecit mors nisi corpus ab anima separauit What did Christs passion what did death but separate his bodie from his soule If the death and passion of Christ did nothing but separate Christs soule from his body then neither Christs death nor passion preuailed to the death of his soule And if his soule were not touched by death then was it neuer dead and so much Saint Austen witnesseth in the very same tractate e Ibidem Verbum non
God and chiefly Christs soule when it descended to hell not only to be brought thence but euen there by gods hand assisting to destroy the strength of Satans kingdome and to triumph ouer all the powers and Principalities of darkenesse If those wordes did alwaies import a present possession and fruition of heauenly glorie then could Dauid with no truth haue spoken them of himselfe so long before his death when as yet no part of Gods promises to him touching his kingdome were perfourmed But the soules of the faithfull are alwaies in the hand of God whiles heere they are protected by him and after this life receaued in rest though they come not as yet to be inuested with the fulnesse of heauenly glory Yea the words properly pertaining to our Sauiours person and condition after death ` Thou wilt not leaue or forsake my soule in hell doe shew that Christs soule was then in Gods hands and compassed round with the power and glory of God when hell and Satan trembled at his presence and were both vanquished and spoiled by him Your adding that this sentence may be fitly applied to Christ prooueth nothing For though I haue no doubt but Christs soule was with farre greater honour and fauour ioy and blisse receaued into the hands of God to whom it was committed then the soules of all his Saints yet that doth not prooue his present entraunce after death into the glory of heauen and continuance in the same except you will say that at his resurrection and till his Ascension his soule was out of his Fathers hands because during that time it was on earth and not in heauen which were a strange position in diuinity The soules of the righteous were in the hands of God long before Christs comming as the wise man witnesseth and yet were they not in the glory of heauen but in Abrahams bosome as our Sauiour teacheth And so the wise man expoundeth himselfe adding No torment shall touch them they are in peace and in the time of their visitation they shall shine reseruing them to a time appointed when glory shal be reuealed on them though in the meane whiles their spirits were kept in rest and ioy vnder the mighty hand of God The Thieues being in Paradise with Christ the same day that he died concludeth no such thing as you conceaue For first no words there or els where euince that Christ spake this of his humane nature Saint Austen resolueth The sense is much easier and freer from all ambiguities if Christ be vnderstood to haue said this day shalt thou be with me in Paradise not of his manhood but of his godhead And in his 111. Tractate vpoÌ„ Iohn vpholding the same exposition addeth He that said to the thiefe painfully hanging yet healthfully confessing this dâ—…y shalt thou be with me in Paradise according to his manhood had his soule that daâ—…e in hâ—…ll his flesh 〈◊〉 the graue but according to his godhead vndoubtedlie he was in Paradise Titus Bishop of Bostra in Arabia somewhat elder then Austen sheweth how these words may be verified of either of Christs natures How was this promise of our Lord made to the thiefe this day shalt thou be with me in Paradise performed Christ takâ—…n dâ—…wne from the crosse was in hell according to his soule and neuerthelesse by the power of his diuinity brought the Thiefe into Paradise Happily he first caried the beleeuing Thiefe to Paradise before he descended to hell Damascen is of Austens mind The same Christ is adored in heauen as God together with the Father and with the holy Ghost and he as man lay in the Sepulchre with his body and abode in hell with his soule and gaue entrance to the thiefe into Paradise his diuinity which cannot be comprehended in any place euery where accompanying him And so is Euthymius How said Christ this day shalt thou be with me in Paradise because as God who filleth all places he was euery where at one instant in the sepulchre in hell and in Paradise and in heauen But admit the words to be ment of Christs humane soule what reason call you this Christs soule was in Paradise that very day that he died ergo neither that day nor any day els before his resurrection his soul did or could descend to hell You must amend these reasons before any man will yeeld you to haue reason or sense Christ might that very day that he went to Paradise subdue and subiect all power in hell vnto himsâ—…lfe he might doe it the next day he might doe it the third day when he rose from the dead the time is not the thing we striue for which we must leaue to God but the reall and actuall performance of the Apostles words He spoiled powers and principalities and made an open shew of them triumphing ouer them in himselfe which in other words Peter expressed when he said Christs soule was not left or forsaken in hell but God raised him â—…p loosing the sorowes of death or hell that euery knee of things vnder earth should â—…ow vnto him as well as of things in heauen and earth and that euerie tongue euen of the damned and Diuels for there are none other vnder earth should confesse either willingly or constrainedly Iesus Christ to be Lord vnto the glory of God the Father This conquest ouer hell and Satan being acknowledged whereby all power in heauen and earth and consequently in hell conteined in the earth was yeelded vnto Christs manhood after his death and before or at his resurrection we shall not need to be curious about the time and manner thereof The compilers of the centuries at Magdeburge doe well admonish Descendisse Christum in infernum articulus sidei est verum quanam ratione ibi omnia sunt gesta non est expresse traditum That Christ descended to hell is an article of the faith but in what sort all things there were donne is not expressely deliuered Happilie it is enough for vs to hâ—…ld the generall and a more exact declaration of this mysterie wee shall heare in another life The eternall and generall ordinance of God is shewed Luc. 16. to be such that none can goe out of heauen downe to hell nor come from hell vp to heauen You boldly presume after your maner that Abrahams bosome was heauen of which many learned men do make great doubt For if the soules of the righteous were in heauen before Christes death and biâ—…th then were they equall vnto the elect Angels before the resurrection which Christ saith shall be when they are the children of the resurrection and so not before And how were the wordes of our Sauiour true which he spake in his life time No man ascendeth vp to heauen but he that descended from heauen the Sonne of man which is in heauen If all the Saints deceased were in heauen or how had
ordained to be damned for vs. 364 Dauid neuer felt the true paines of hell 453 Dauids feare vnlike to Christs 442 What Death Christ died 19 A threefold death the wages of sinne 13â—… Corporall death in all men is the punishment of sinne 149. 150. 151. 176 Death in Christ was the satisfaction for sinne 176 Euerlasting death the wages of sinne which Christ could not suffer 226 The death of the body is euill in it selfe though God to his make it a passage to life 244. 245 The consequenâ—…s after death doe not proue death to be good 246 The nature of death not changed in the godly 252 God so hâ—…teth death that he will destroy it as an enemie 254 Naturall death came not by the sentence of Mosâ—… Law 261 Thâ—…e is no death of the Soule without sinne 366 All feele the sting of death which Christ expressed before he died 389 The death and life of the soule here on earth mistaken by the Defender 430 What the second death is in the Scriptures 492 Eight pâ—…es of Scripture abused for the death of Christs Soule 493 By one lande of death Christ freed vs from all kinds of death 504 To be vtterly forsaken of God is the death of the Soule 517. 518 The extreamest degree of pains where grace doth not faile is no death of the Soule 524 What things the death of the body doth import 649 The Defender grosly peruerteth my words 44. 45 The Defender contâ—…adicteth himselfe 56. 57 The Defender contemneth the Fathers and their iudgements 82 The Defender deuiseth shifts to decline Scriptures and Fathers against him 94 The Defender would make the maner of Christes dying onely vnusuall 95 The Dâ—…fender doth grossely mistake the reiection of the Iewes to be the meaning of Christes complaint on the crosse 98 The Dâ—…fender not able to support his errors doth quarrell with the question 99 The Defender eludeth the Scriptures with his termes of single and meere 125. 126. 127 The Defender clouteth one conclusion out of diuers places 146 The Defender maketh the sufferings of Christs flesh needlesse to our redemption 168. 169 The Defender peruerteth the doctrine of the Homilies 224. 225 The Defender maketh Christ sinfull accursed and defiled 265 The Defender would not faile to cite Fathers if he had them 273 The Defender compareth Christ in want of comfort with the damned 291 The Defender vainly presumeth all places of his vnanswered to be granted 319 The Defender hath deuised torments for Christs soule 323 The Defender controleth the words of the holy Ghost by his new phrases 413 The Defender in steed of proouing falleth to granting his owne positions 5â—…3 The Defender misciteth S. Iohns words and on that error groundeth all his reasons 644 The Defender giuing a reason of nâ—…thing asketh a reason of all things 415 The Defender claimeth like reuerence to his words as to the Scripture 325 The Defender saith the Scriptures are ordinarilie true that is sometimes false 367 The Defender doth euery where mistake and misapply what is said 384 The Defender forgeth a pace new parts of the Christian faith 393 The Defender taketh the parts of Christs agonie for the causes thereof 401 The Defender is somewhat pleasureable 528 The Defender corrupteth S. Luke 402. 403 The Defender ascribeth a liuely affection to Christs dead flesh 422 The Defender vttereth a flat contradiction to his owne doctrine 422. 423 The Defender confesseth the Fathers prooue my meaning 425 The Defender is driuen to contrarieties 431 The Defender taketh from Christ inward sense and memory in his sufferings 440 The Defender yeeldeth perfect knowledge to Christ in his amazednesse 481 The Defender foolishly prooueth the death of Christs soule 495. 496 The Defender abuseth the Scriptures 534. 535 The Defender cannot discerne a conclusion from a quotation 568 The Defendours foure restraints of hell paines 4 The Defendours disdaine of the fathers 98 The Defendours vaine shifts 114. 115 The Defendours skill in framing arguments 327 The Defendours absurd deuises 490 The Defendours manner of reasoning as illogicall as his matter is false 336 Dereliction in the Scriptures neuer implieth the paines of the damned 415 Deepe what it signifieth 566 To what Deepe Christ descended after death 565 567 The true sense of Paul and Moses words Rom. 10. concerning the Deepe 568 The whoâ—…e church taught that Christ after death descended to hell 544. 545 New Writers teach Christs descent to hell 546. 547 Christ needed no long time to descend to hell 551 Of Christs descending and ascending 553 Christ aescended and ascended to be Lord ouer all 563 To what deepe Christ descended after death 565 567 Descending is to places below 569 How long this clause of Christs descent to hell hath been in the Creed 653. 654 What Ruffinus meaneth by Christs descent to hell 655 Descending to hades was not the buriall of Christs body 556. 557. 558 The causes of Christs descent to hell 666 Desâ—…ending to hell was a part of Christs exaltation 671 The descent of Christ to hell confessed by the Catechisme 677 The Lawes of this land doe binde all to beleeue Christs descent to hell 678 Desperation in hell is no sinne 71 Desperation is the sorest torment in this life 238 A small Difference of wordes may quite alter the sense 199 Difference of Christs offering and suffering 276 Difference of outward and inward temptatioÌ„s 314 Difference betwixt Gods threats iudgements 472 How the Diuell may discerne and incense our affections 192 The Diuell tormented not Christes soule on the Crosse. 295 Christ suffered as deepe paines but not as deepe Doubts as we may 321 E. ELect Who is enemie to Gods Elect. 233 The Elect are neuer truely accursed 252 The Elect cannot perish 364 Erasmus fouly mistaken by the defendor 653 Foure notable Errors grounded by the defendor vpon the facts of Moses and Paul 363 The first 363 The second 365 The third 367 The fourth 368 What impressions Euill maketh in the soule of man 341 Euill past present or to come worketh sorrow paine and feare in the soule of man 341 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 what it importeth 485 Is contrarie to feare 501 Esay doth not touch the death of Christes soule 526. 527 Esay 14. Shcol for hell 559. 560 Eusebius report of Thaddeus allowed by the best historiographers 660 F FAthers their iudgements may be called Authorities 83 The Fathers may be left in some priuate opinions 84 I leaue not the Fathers in the grounds of faith 85 The Fathers doc not teach that Christ suffered all which we should haue suffered 138. 139 The Fathers disclaime all necessitie in the death of Christ. 285 The Fathers determine not the exact cause of Christs Agonie 371 Wherein we should follow the Fathers 415 Some Fathers expound me in Christs wordes for my members 416 No Father auoucheth the death of Christs Soule 142. 143 Diuerse Fathers euidently corrupted for the death of Christs Soule 428. 429 By the iudgement of the Fathers Christ died
was neglected and loathed And vpon conference with the most reuerend Father the late Archbishop now with God was aduised in open audience to deliuer what the Scriptures teach touching our redemption by the death and bloudshedding of Iesus Christ the Sonne of God Which accordingly I did declaring by occasion of the Apostles words Be it far from me to reioyce but in the Crosse of Christ first the Contents and then the Effects of Christes crosse In the Contents of Christes crosse I shewed what Christ suffered by the witnes of holy Scripture and what he suffered not and there ioyned this issue That no Scripture doth teach the death of Christs soule or the paines of the damned to be requisite in the person of Christ before he could be the Ransomer of our sinnes and Sauiour of the world And because the proofs pretended for this point might be three Praedictions that Christ should suffer those paines Causes why he must suffer them and Signes that he did suffer them I likewise insisted on all three and shewed there were no such Praedictions Causes nor Signes of the true paines of hell to be suffered in the soule of Christ before he could saue vs. Wherein his Agonie in the Garden and Complaint on the Crosse were examined as well by the rules of holy Scripture as by the maine consent of all the Fathers And lest the death of Christ suffered in the bodie of his flesh on the altar of the Crosse as it is described in the Scriptures and the shedding of his precious bloud should be disabled or distrusted of any as no sufficient meanes or price of our redemption in the Effects of Christs crosse I prooued the merits of Christes suffering to be infinite in respect of his person who was God and of the perfection of his obedience vnto the death of the Crosse the maner of his offering to be bloudie foreshewed by the Sacrifices of the Law and sealed by the Sacraments of the Gospell the power of his death to be mightie as able to conquer Sinne Hell and Satan the comfort of his Crosse to be necessarie to which we must all be conformed to suffer with him before we can raigne with him the victorie thereof to be heauenly in that he rose the third day into a celestiall and eternall life hauing all his enemies vnder his feet Yet for peace sake I yeelded the name of hell-paines might in some sort be tolerated in the sufferings of Christ if we meant thereby great and intolerable paines as the word is sometimes metaphorically taken in the Scriptures at the least by our vulgar translation for the word indeed was Sheôl which is vsed aswell for the graue as for hell and so those speeches of Dauid That the paines of Sheol found him out or compassed him might import the paines of death which brought men to their graues And concerning that Article of our Faith Christ descended to Hell I taught it might not by the course of the Creed be referred to Christ liuing but to Christ dead and safely note the conquest which Christs manhood after death had ouer all the powers of darkenesse declared by his resurrection when he rose Lord ouer all his enemies in his owne person Death Hell and Satan not excepted and had the Keyes that is all power of death and hell deliuered him by God that those in heauen earth and hell should stoope vnto him and be subiect to the strength and glorie of his Kingdome These things were first vttered by speech and after committed to writing that aswell the parts as proofes of euery point might more plainly appeare to all that would examine them My care was in either of these to ioyne with the doctrine prescribed by the booke of Homilies to be taught in the Church of God to the people That there is none other thing that can be named vnder heauen to saue our soules but this only worke of Christes precious offering his bodie vpon the Altar of the Crosse. For so great was Gods wrath and displeasure towards sinne that he could be pacified by no other meanes but only by the sweet and precious bloud of his deere Sonne And so pleasant was this sacrifice and oblation of his Sonnes death which he so obediently and innocently suffered that God would take it for the onely and full amends for all the sinnes of the world As for Christs descent to hell I deliuered the same ends and intents which the booke of Homilies doth where it saith Christes death destroyed death and ouercame the Diuell His death destroyed hell with all the damnation thereof Christ passed thorow death and hell to the intent to put vs in good hope that by his strength we shall do the same He destroyed the Diuell and all his tyrannie and openly triumphed ouer him and tooke away from him all his Captiues meaning all the Elect and hath raised and set them with himselfe amongst the heauenly Citizens aboue These things thus preached and printed by me it may please your excellent Maiestie to vnderstand were first impugned by an hastie and humorous Treatise whiles my Sermons were yet vnder the Presse and after by a larger and warier Defence which is this that I now refute The Treatiser sliding from the things proposed by me wherein he could not open his mouth but with as many vntrueths as words did beare men in hand the question was Whether Christ suffered for vs the wrath of God or no whereas I mooued no such doubt but rather acknowledged That all which Christ suffered in soule or in bodie was the wrath of God against our sinnes if we speake as the Scriptures doe of punishments prouided â—…or this life where Christ did suffer and not of the wrath to come which is the vengeance prepared for the Diuell and the damned in another world And because in this Treatise I found moe distempered pangs of erroneous follie than aduised steppes of learning or religion I refelled the chiefe reasons thereof in a Conclusion added to my Sermons as they were in printing not thinking it worth my time or paines to make any longer resutation of him that remembred so little of that I had vttered and reasoned so loosely for that which he would establish No sooner were those Sermons and that Conclusion published but the curious Brethren seeing their kingdome of conceits impugned made their obseruations on both and sent their collections and reasons to the Treatiser that he might make a fresh Defence correcting in many things his former rashnesse and now leading him rather cunningly to cauill with the Fathers speeches than so proudly to disdaine their testimonies which maketh him not only to change his minde in many matters from that he sayd before but often to crosse himselâ—…e in the selfe same leafe whiles he doth not marke what he sayth out of his owne heart and what he bringeth out of other mens supplies and papers In this Defence for so they
Agonie after an Angell appeared from heauen and comforted or strengthened him with a message from God it seemeth rather an effect of Christes intentiue prayer which the Scripture there mentioneth than a consequent to any other passion or paine Christes intentiue prayer after comfort receiued by an Angell from heauen might proceed from his ardent desire care and zeale of our redemption from the wrath of God and protection from the rage of Satan And therefore as the Prophet foreshewed he should not onely beare the sinnes of many but pray for the Trespassers Christ might spend all the spirits and powers of bodie and soule in most vehement and feruent prayer euen vnto a bloudie sweat to haue all his members pardoned their sinnes and reconciled to God by the sacrifice of his bodie which he would offer for them and also to haue Satan cast out from accusing them and in the end trodden vnder their feet If Christes bloudie sweat were supernaturall we must aske no cause thereof but leaue it to his sacred will who could aboue nature doe what he would That it was no proofe of hell paines appeareth plainly because Christ after in greater paines on the Crosse did not sweat bloud and of all those whom these men imagine suffered hell paines in the Scriptures no one can be produced that euer sweat bloud The word forsaking vsed by Christ in his Complaint on the Crosse doth not in all the Scriptures inferre the paines of the damned but in the wicked it noteth reiection desperation and feare of damnation and in the godly it argueth want of protection or decrease of consolation in their troubles In Christ it might shew the time the cause the maner or the griefe of his being so long forsaken and left to the rage and reproch of his persecutors without any sensible signe of Gods loue towards him care for him helpe in his troubles or exse in his paines but it doth not prooue that Christ thought himselfe forsaken of Gods fauour grace or spirit which feare or doubt could not be in him without a manifest touch of error and want of faith Christ neuer feared nor doubted that he should or could perish vnder the hand of God persuing our sinnes in the bodie of his flesh but for the ioy set before him endured the Crosse and despised the shame and as S. Peter sayth of him at the time of his suffering he alwayes beheld God at his right hand that he should not be shaken and therefore his heart reioyced and his tongue was glad and his flesh rested in hope because his soule should not be forsaken in hell nor his flesh see corruption Christ was made a curse for vs in that he suffered the temporall and corporall curses of the Law threatned vnto sinners as all sorts of afflictions belonging to this life and in the end a painfull and shamefull death by which he abolished the spirituall and eternall curse of God due to vs for sinne but he was neuer inwardly truely nor eternally accursed of God since by tasting of our externall curse for a time he made vs partakers of his spirituall and celestiall blessednesse for euer Christ who knew no sinne was made sinne for vs that is either the punishment of our sinnes or the sacrifice for our sinnes for we were healed by his stripes and he gaue himselfe for vs a sacrifice of a sweet smell to God Being then an holy and acceptable sacrifice to God for sinne he was neither defiled nor hatefull to God with our sinnes but suffered the iust for the vniust that is he tooke vpon him the punishment of our sinnes though he were most innocent and by the holinesse of his person submitting himselfe to the death of the crosse purged our vncleannesse by his innocencie couered our guiltinesse and by his fauour with God reconciled vs that were enemies Christ bare the full punishment of our sinnes that is not all which we should haue borne for then he must haue beene euer lastingly reiected confounded and condemned to hell fire which are most horrible blasphemies but he bare so much of the punishments of this life where he suffered as in his person by the iust iudgement of God was most sufficient for all our sinnes TOuching Christs descent to hell the words are plainly cited by Peter out of Dauid that Christes soule after death should not be left in Hades which Saint Luke in his Gospell vseth for the place where torments are prepared for the wicked after this life And in that sense is the word vsed thorowout the New Testament as likewise the Greeke Fathers tooke it for the place vnder the earth whither the soules of all men were condemned for sinne and where the Diuels detaine and torment the wicked That Christ likewise descended to the lower parts of the earth and to the bottomlesse deepe after death is vouched by Saint Paul whereupon the whole Church of Christ from the beginning hath confessed his descent to hel to be a point of Christian pietie Peters Sermon in the second of the Acts intended not simply to proue that Christ was risen from the dead as Lazarus and others were but affirmed farder of him That God raised him vp to set him on Dauids Throne that is to make him King of Glorie This he prooueth In that Christes flesh could not see corruption nor his soule be forsaken in hell which was verified in none no not in Dauid who were all dead and saw corruption but only in the Messias It was therefore impossible that either death or hell should detaine Christ but he was to rise Lord of death and hell and the Sauiour of all his from both as appeared by his ascending to heauen and sitting at the right hand of God Neither was this strange to the Iewes who were taught to expect that to be performed by the Messias which God promised by his Prophet O Death I will be thy death O Hell I will be thy destruction Sheol in the Olde Testament signifieth the Graue and Hell that is the places whither the dead bodies of all men went and whither the soules of the wicked dead in sinne descended after death And therefore where it is distinguished from the death of the bodie or referred to the soule after death as it is in Dauids words applied by Peter to Christ it apparently signifieth Hell The ends of Christes descent are likewise deriued from the Scriptures as the destroying of the Diuels kingdome and triumphing ouer powers and principalities and making an open shew of them spoiling them by deliuering all his Elect dead liuing and yet vnborne from the right power and feare of eternall death taking into his hands the Keyes of Death and Hell that he might be Lord of all in Heauen Earth and Hell The Creed is not a Collection of Greeke or Hebrew phrases vnknowen to the people but a short summe of the Christian faith prouided for the simpler sort of men to learne by heart And therefore as
nothing is superfluously repeated so nothing is obscurely couered in it And though this Article He descended to hell wanted for a time in some Churches euen as some part of Scripture did yet was it retained by all Christian Writers as a ground of true religion from the Apostles time and professed in some Churches very anciently in their Creed and at last generally receiued in all places All the Fathers of Christes Church with one consent teach this as a point of the Christian faith That Christ after death descended to hell insomuch that Austen resolutely sayth Who but an Infidell will denie that Christ was in hell Where Abrahams bosome was neither was nor is agreed amongst the learned only Austen rightly inferreth out of Christes words That being a place of comfort and farre off aboue Hades where the rich man was tormented with a great Gulfe setled betwixt those two places it could be no part nor member of hell The rest which are very many appeare by the seuerall Titles ouer ech Page or by the Table prouided to finde the same with more facilitie THE SVRVEY OF CHRISTES SVFFERINGS FOR MANS REDEMPTION IT may seeme somewhat strange to thee Christian Reader as it doth likewise to me that one and the selfe same cause being twice now debated and discussed in writing on either side we should at the last be farther from agreeing on the true state of the controuersie than we were at the first entring into the matter If the fault be either in the doubtfulnesse of my words proposing it or in the diuersnesse of my mind defending it I refuse no reproch of follie and inconstancie but if I keeping close to the points which I first propounded and calling vpon the aduerse part with as great vehemencie and importunitie as I could to goe directly to the issue and no way to digresse from the things in question the Impugner trusting more to the couert of his words than to the soundnesse of his proofs will of purpose shunne the marke prefixed and roue at pleasure with doubtfull and deceitfull termes to hide the nakednesse of his side and to make the Reader beleeue he hath matter of moment when indeed he doth not so much as vnderstand himselfe or take any knowledge of the chiefest things which I obiect or alledge then is he woorthie to beare the blame who best deserueth it and thou Christian Reader mayest soone perceiue and assoone pronounce both for thine owne ease and for an end to be had in this strife for to thee the Confuter referreth himselfe and so doe I whether of vs flieth the touchstone of trueth and faileth in the due proofe of his doctrine as neere as God shall giue thee wisdome to discerne light from darknesse and grace to preferre trueth before falshood In the Preface of my Sermons published I much misliked and openly charged the ouer hastie Discourser that called himselfe H. I. for cleane changing the state of the first Question and to the maine diuision of his Treatise where he sayth The whole controuersie hath in it two points the first That Christ suffered for vs the wrath of God c I replied in my conclusion It was too much boldnesse to outface the world in print that this was the position which I impugned There were too many witnesses there for me to denie or for him to belie the Question he knew it well enough but he could not tell how to proue that which I then reproued and therefore he shranke from it and dallied with generall and doubtfull termes And lest either the patient Reader or strict Examiner should be forced farre to seeke for the chiefe points by me denied or affirmed in those Sermons I purposely and plainly numbred and deliuered them in such sort as none could mistake them but he that would wilfully ouerleape them My words thou wilt pardon me to repeat good Christian Reader that thereby thou mayest see whether I alter or new frame my first questions and resolutions as this Prater pretendeth by his euery where complaining of my manifolde ambiguities fallacies and contrâ—…rieties or he rather dissembleth the weaknesse and couereth the badnesse of his cause vnder certeine perplexed and confused phrases as anon thou shalt heare more at large These are my words in the foresayd Preface I laboured in these my Sermons to prooue these foure points First That it was no where recorded in holy Scriptures nor iustly to be concluded by the Scriptures that Christ suffered the true paines of Hell Secondly That as the Scriptures describe to vs the paines of the Damned and of hell there are manie terrors and torments which without euident impietie can not be ascribed to the Sonne of God Thirdly That the death and bloud of Christ Iesus were euidently frequently constantly set downe in the writings of the Apostles as the sufficient price of our Redemption and true meane of our Reconciliation to God and the verie same proposed in the figures resembled in the sacrifices of the Law and sealed with the Sacraments of the New testament as the verie ground-worke of our saluation by Christ and so haue beene receiued and beleeued in the Church of God foureteene hundred yeeres before any man euer made mention of hell-paines to be suffered in the soule of Christ. Lastly where the Scriptures are plaine and pregnant That Christ died for our sinnes and by his death destroyed him that had power of death euen the diuell and reconciled vs when we were strangers and enemies in the body of his flesh through death besides That the Holie ghost in these places by expresse words nameth the bodily death of Christ as the meane of our Redemption Reconciliation to God no considerate Diuine might affirme or imagine Christ suffered the death of the soule for somuch as the death of the soule must exclude Christ from the grace spirit and life of God and leaue in him neither faith hope nor loue sanctitie nor innocencie which God forbid any Christian man should so much as dreame And if any man to mainteine his deuice would inuent a new hell and another death of the soule then either Scriptures or Fathers euer heard or spake of they should keepe their inuentions to themselues it sufficed me to beleeue what I read and consequently not to beleeue what I did not reade in the Word of God which is and ought to be the foundation of our faith Whether there be any darkenesse or doubling in my speech I leaue it to thy censure good Christian Reader I affirme touching our redemption and reconciliation to God what the Scriptures affirme and as neere as I could in the selfe-same words I denied the late additions of some men in matters of so great weight which the Scriptures by their perpetuall silence denie and by their open and euident consequents disprooue and impugne If any man thinke my Sermons in these points lesse euident or pertinent to the purpose than my Preface let him looke
to the places where these things are handâ—…ed and iudge in Gods name as he findeth cause remembring that he which withstandeth or neglecteth the trueth withstandeth and neglecteth his owne saluation First that no Scripture doth witnesse or warrant Christs suffering the true paines of hell in his soule see either the proposing of their opinions that so thinke or the examining of their proofes which are brought for that conceit or the shutting vp of that part which sheweth the summe of all aforesayd which I close in this wise Then are there in the sacred Scriptures neither any praedictions that Christ should suffer the paines of hell in his soule heere on earth nor causes why he must suffer them nor signes that he did suffer them and consequently what soeuer is pretended no proofe that these sufferings must be added to the Crosse of Christ before the worke of our saluation can be perfect Secondly that such paines of hell as the Scriptures expresse and auouch may not be applied to Christ without apparent impietie reade what I write concerning the particulars and settle thy iudgement gentle Reader as thou likest best I desire not to preuaile where I bring not sufficient proofe emptie words on either side are slender meanes to quiet thy conscience or settle thy faith if thou seeke to be religious Thirdly where the whole course and tenor of the sacred Scriptures do plainly and fully ascribe our Redemption and the remission of our sinnes to the death and bloud of Christ Iesus I dare not delude the words of the Holy ghost as if they were euery where improper or imperfect but by the foure first effects of Christs crosse I make it appeare how sufficient our saluation is by the bloud of Christ without anie supplie of hell paines to be suffered in the soule of Christ. Lastly since no Christian man may doubt but we are redeemed and saued by the death of Christ how farre it is from all sense and shew of holy Scripture to subiect Christ to the death of the soule and how repugnant to the mouthes and mindes of the ancient and catholike fathers I insert a speciall discourse and thence obserue that where whensoeuer the Holie ghost speaketh of the death of Christ he meaneth the death of Christs body suffered on the altar of the Crosse and by no meanes the death of Christs soule These things being thus sensibly and plainly set downe to the view and reach of all men were they neuer so simple if they were Christians what reason had you Sir Refuter in your Treatise to slide from all this and to delude your Reader by telling him that the whole controuersie had in it two points 1 That Christ suffered for vs the wrath of God 2 That after his death on the Crosse he went not into hell in his soule as if I proposed or proued nothing in the first part of my Sermons but that Christ did not suffer for vs the wrath of God did I or could I make or mooue anie such question that in preciâ—…e words taught the wrath of God against our sinnes was verie great in the Crosse of Christ did I not in plaine termes ascribe to Christ a double sense of Gods wrath the first pursuing our suretie being innocent and obedient and euen his owne and onelie sonne with all maner of corporall and temporall scourges vnto death before it could be pacified the next a serious contemplation of that eternall and intolerable vâ—…ngeance which the Iustice of God had in store for vs by reason of our manifolde sinnes whose danger and destruction touched him as neere through the tendernesse of his loue and pitie as if it had beene imminent ouer his owne head But this you will say is not the wrath which you meane Sir whatsoeuer your meaning be which is scant knowen to your selfe as anon we shal better perceiue the words of your Treatise setting the very question to which your Reader must looke ouerlashed with two palpable vntrueths vnfit for a man of that care and conscience which you would seeme to haue For first this could be no question with me whether Christ suffered for vs the wrath of God who exactly affirmed that Gods wrath was great in the Crosse of Christ and admitted in the soule of Christ a sight and sense of Gods temporall wrath inflicted on his bodie and of Gods eternall wrath prepared for our sinnes Againe had I moued that question which I neuer meant doth the first part of the controuersie containe no more but Whether Christ suffered the wrath of God or no are your hell paines so soone vanished into smoake is the death of Christs soule no question with you whether the death of Christs bodie and the shedding of his bloud be the full price of our Redemption and cause of our reconciliation to God is it not worth the asking nor worth the answering but you ranne from the rest not able to iustifie that which I disproued and then as your maner is you catch a large and licentious word and currie that till you confound both your selfe and your Reader For who but you would haue proposed such a question Whether Christ suffered for vs the wrath of God knowing that in the Scriptures themselues according to which we must frame our speech in matters of faith there are many degrees and differences of Gods wrath whereof some may be attributed to Christs sufferings without offence others can not without plaine impietie and therefore the question which you proposed in your Treatise was but a very stale to make your Reader gaze at whiles you shifted aside from the matter which I moued The one you will say is a proofe of the other for he which suffereth Gods wrath must needs suffer the paines of hell That was and must be the whole strength of your Treatise vnlesse you will confesse that you meant to waste your paper and mocke your Reader with a number of emptie and idle fansies But how faint and feeble that foundation was to beare so great a building the conclusion of my Sermons doth sufficiently shew In which I tolde you that either your argument must be vitious if your antecedent were particular or if to make your argument good you enlarged your antecedent to be generall your first proposition would be both iniurious and blasphemous For though Christ might and did suffer some parts of Gods wrath as the Scripture vseth that word which is all that your indefinite proposition will implie yet it would no way follow that he therefore suffered the paines of hell And if to amend your consequent you did affirme that Christ suffered the whole wrath of God and euery part thereof and so by consequent the paines of hell also the forme of your argument was bettered but your antecedent on which the conclusion must depend was a most false and wicked assertion for then must Christ haue suffered reprobation desperation eternall
damned doe though in circumstances of time and place his sufferings somewhat differed from theirs Your quintessencing and new framing of another hell which the Scriptures neuer speake of your quenching hell-fire with a fansie your appointing God to be the tormentor in hell with his immediate hand your nice diuiding betweene the substance and circumstance of Gods eternall iudgements your placing the substance thereof in the apprehension of the soule and that as well in this life as in the next with a number of like audacious and desperate deuises to vphold the name or the shade of hell-paines in the sufferings of Christ wee shall anon discusse when we come to your opening of the question in the meane while the Reader must marke The question is not whether Christ bare the burden of all our sinnes on the tree or whether he were touched and tempted in all things like to his brethren yet still without sinne but whether it can be prooued by the Scriptures that Christ must beare all and the selfe same burdens of our sinnes which wee should haue borne in this life and the next and which the damned doe and shall beare Your distinction of the substance and circumstance of Gods endlesse and mercilesse vengeance of sinne in hell we shall quickly let the Reader see how vainely you presume it without all warrant of holy Scripture and how falsely you applie it to the person of Christ against the manifest Scripture if first we obserue how handsomely you set downe the doctrine which I defend in the next words to your owne hieroglyphicall question of purpose that if you cannot by trueth ouerbeare it you may at least by falshood disgrace it His contrary opinion say you we conceaue thus that Christ suffered for our sinnes nothing else but simply and meerely a bodily death altogether like as the godly doe often suffer at the hands of persecutors sauing onely that God accepted the death of his sonne as a ransome for sin but the death of his seruants he doth not Had you not seene and read my sermons printed before you made this late defence you might haue excused your selfe Sir defender by forgetting or mistaking my wordes but after so often and open repeating them in Print what cause can be imagined why you should thus apparently peruert my words and purposely forsake the points which I proposed saue onely that finding the foile and doubting a fall you would gladly slippe your necke out of the collar and seeing no better meanes you thinke it more skâ—…ll to stand wrangling about the Question then to be taken tardie with saying iust nothing in a matter of the greatest weight and chiefest regard in Christian religion My words are euery where plaine enough as well in deliuering as debating the question that Christ suffered no death saue onâ—…ly the death of the bodie by the verdit of holy Scripture and therefore whatsoeuer the Scripture speaketh of Christs death it is intended and referred to the death of Christs bodie on the Crosse and by no meanes to the death of his soule The words of my preface are these Where the Scriptures are plaine and pregnant that Christ died for our sinnes and by his death destroyed him that had power ouer death euen the Deuill and reconciled vs when we were strangers and enemies in the body of his flesh besides that the holy Ghost in these places by expresse words nameth the bodily death of Christ as the meane of our redemption and reconciliation to God no considerate Diuine may affirme or imagine Christ suffered the death of the soule When I come in my Sermons to handle that point I thus beginne it That Christ did or could suffer the death of the soule is a position farre from the words but farther from the groundes of sacred Scriptures When I shew the Fathers doe ioyne in the same resolution with the Scriptures I say Rightly therefore doe the Ancient Fatâ—…ers teach that Christ dying for our sinnes suffered ONELY THE DEATH OF THE BODIE BVT NOT OF THE SOVLâ—… Concluding their testimonies I capitulate in this wise I hope to all men learned or well aduised it will seeme no Iesuiticall phrenzie but rather Christian and Catholike doctrine that the Sonne of God dying for our sinnes suffered NOT THE DEATH OF THE SOVLE BVT ONELY OF THE BODIE If you vnderstand not these words Sir Defender your Reader will iudge you fitter to learne your abc then to dispute questions in Diuinitie if you doe conceaue them and will peruert them let him likewise pronounce whether it be sinceritie or impudencie in you thus to outface the matter against my plaine speach and to make Proclamation that I defend Christ suffeâ—…ed nothing else for our sinnes but simply and meerely a bodyly death altogether like as the godly often doe at the hands of persecutors Had you said I maintaine Christ suffered no death but onely a bodily death I would haue asked you by what Scriptures you or all your adherents can disproue it but charging me as you doe with this opinion that Christ suffered nothing else but simply and meerely a bodily death altogether like the godly I must tell you this is one of your trueths which many men will call a malitious leasing since my wordes are publikely extant to the contrarie My first resolution was Christ saw before hand that going to his Crosse he should tast all kindes of calamities and so it came to passe For betweene his last Supper and his death he was betrayed of Iudas abiured of Peter forsaken of all his followers he was wrongfully imprisoned falsly accused uniustly condemned he was buffeâ—…ed whipped skorned reuiled he endured cold nakednesse thirst wounding hanging shame reproach and all sorts of deadly paines besides heauinesse of hart and agonie of mind which oppressed him in the Garden All this I affirme Christ suffered before his death and therefore all this besides his meere bodily death to which I added all those afflictions and passions of the Soule which naturally and necessarily follow paine and accompany death You perchance would annex the paines of hell and the death of the Soule but those are the very points in question which I then did and yet doe vtterly exclude from the sufferings of Christ. Where you say I hold Christs death was altogether like as the godly doe suffer at the hands of Persecutors I know not what you meane by your altogether in some things his death was like theirs in many things vnlike A wrongfull and painefull death of the body he suffered at the hands of the Iewes as the godly doe often at the hands of their persecutors and a full perswasion he alwaies had of Gods exceeding and assured loue and fauour towards him in the middest of all his anguishes as the godly haue in theirs though in farre lesse perfection then his was but as touching the cause the manner the force of his death I make it altogether vnlike theirs
which will not suffer you to be tempted aboue that you be able but will giue the issue with the tentation that you may be able to beare it Yea to his enimies God mitigateth the heauinesse of his hand at first and giueth them time and place to amend before he destroyeth them I gaue her space to repent saith Christ but she repented not and therefore when the measure of their sinnes waxeth full God repaieth them the fulnes of vengeance which is puuishment proportioned to their sinnes and this is the due and proper punishments of those that are wilfull and doe not repent their wickednesse The paines of the godly are partly remembrances to cause repentance partly Chasticements to humble vs and mortifie sinne in vs but these whatsoeuer they be yea though death it selfe are improperly called punishments Here you touch after your loose maner the purpose of God in afflicting his seruants which you say is to reforme them but in no wise to punish them If God had none other meaning in afflicting the faithfull but to reforme their sins nor none other meanes to doe that but by paines your speech had some truth but because God hath diuers purposes in so doing and diuers waies without paines to amend his children this that here you bring as the rest else-where is a blind groping besides the truth and a bold presuming that you are in the truth God many times lodeth the best and chiefest of his Saintes with oftner and greater troubles then he doth the meaner sort not because their sinnes are more then others or they neede more amendment then the rest but to TRIE their faith as in Abraham and Iob or to shew the perfection of his grace as in Paul or to prepare them to glory as in Lazarus or to conforme them to Christ whose steps they must follow and often to declare his iustice as he did in striking Dauids child when the sinne was both repented and pardoned in the Father In the sicknesse and death of which child as of all other infants regenerate by Baptisme there neither was nor can be any vse of Repentance humiliation or mortification for themselues and consequently by your owne diuision since to them it can be NO CORRECTION it must in them be a punishment of sinne not actually committed by them but naturally deriued to them by the guilt and corruption of their Parents Yea the generall paine laid on Adam and all mankinde as dissolution by death priuation of originall light and grace corruption of sinne infection of soule which declare vs all to be the children of wrath by nature were they corrections or punishments of Adams sinne since after death there is no repentance nor amendment of life and the rest are neither barres to sinne nor retraits from sinne but either parts effects or causes of sinne which sticke so fast and beare such rule in many euen of the elect that no gentle or fatherly admonitions reprehensions or comminations will preuaile with them but they must be ouerruled and wearied with sharp and pearcing scourges before they will see or forsake the loathsomnesse of their sinne Wherein though it be a great fauour of God rather to persue them with all temporall plagues vnto their conuersion then to let them run headlong to euerlasting perdition yet the meanes which he vseth are mixed with iustice and mercie and are rightly beleeued to be punishments fully deserued by their sinnes though not fully proportioned to their sinnes the iust and full wages whereof in sinfull men can be none other but death corporall spirituall and eternall So that your diuision all paine from God is either correction or punishment and your position no paine in the godly is punishment are not onely friuolous and false but repugnant each to the other for so much as paine commeth from God for probation of faith perfection of grace assurance of saluation encouraging of others by example as well as for correction and death and correction in Infants where correction hath no place must by your owne partition be a punishment of sinne inflicted on the first Man and all his posteritie The which because we all inherite from our Parents and had it in vs at our birth when there was no vse of correction for vs it was then in vs all and so still remaineth a punishment of our first Parents sinne though by the grace and price of Christs death we are and shall be freed from it But come to your purpose and apply this to Christ for thither you bend and thereat you shoote is your diuision true in the sufferings of Christ then since by your owne assertion chastisements and remembrances which are the branches that you make of Correction belonged nothing at all to Christ and indeede there could be no cause to correct any sinfull corruption or affection in him where no sinne was it is a plaine confession that the bodily death and paines which Christ suffered on the Crosse were the punishment of our sinnes in his body and consequently a part of that curse which was imposed on the first mans sinne which you so stifly denied in your Treatise where you said Therefore Christs dying simply as the godly die that is a bodily death may in no sort be called a curse or cursed And if to shift of this contradiction and confession of the truth of my answere to the place of S. Paule Christ was made a curse for vs you referre these words as the godly doe not to the same kinde of death which is bodily in both but to the same cause of death which was different in Christ and his members Remember good Sir the words are not mine but your owne I put many differences betwixt the death of Christ and his Saints as namely the cause the manner and force of his death which I haue touched before but the kind of death which was bodily and not Ghostly is all one in Christ and the godly For Christ died not the death of the Soule no more doe the godly when they depart this life albeit they may oftentimes whiles here they liue draw neere to the death of the Soule by sinning which Christ could not And if you begin now to be better aduised I am not displeased with it it shall suffice that mine answere did and doth stand true that Christ in suffering bodyly paines and death for vs suffered a part of the same punishment and curse which was laid on all mankind for the sinne of Adam We must note especially that to suffer as the godly doe Chasticements and corrections is not to suffer or feele Gods wrath nor the punishment of sinne except it be in a very improper speech To suffer the true punishment satisfaction proper payment and wages of sinne onely that is to suffer properly and truely the wrath of God now then seeing the paines which Christ for vs did feele were indeede properly the
had God chiefly respected the execution of his iustice against sinne his owne sonne was most vnfit to be subiected to that vengeance which was prepared for deuils but God in the recompense which he required for sinne chose rather to haue his holinesse contented and his glory aduanced than to haue his iustice inflicted to the vttermost And therefore he selected the person of his owne sonne that might fully satisfie his holinesse and maruellously exalt his glorie but on whom of all others his iustice could take least holde not that his iustice should be neglected but that a moderate punishment in his person for the worthinesse thereof would weigh more euen in the balance of Gods exact iustice than the depth of Gods wrath executed on all the transgressours The chastisement of our peace layd vpon him will proue the same For where the wages of sinne is death and death due to sinne is threefold spirituall corporall and eternall as I haue formerly shewed such was the person of our Sauiour that two parts of death due to sinne could by no rule of Gods iustice fasten on Christes humane nature The gifts of Gods spirit and grace could not be quenched nor diminished in him he was full of grace and trueth he had not the spirit by measure as we haue but of his fulnesse we all haue receiued It is my father saith he that honoureth me whom ye say to be your God yet haue ye not knowen him but I know him and if I should say I know him not I should be a liar like vnto you but I know him and keepe his word and do alwayes the things that please him The cleerenesse of trueth knowing Gods will and fulnesse of grace keeping his word beeing continually present with the humane soule of Christ most apparently the death of the soule which excludeth all inward sense and motion of Gods spirit could haue no place in him by reason the death of the soule is the want of all grace and height of all sinne from which he was free much lesse could any part of Christs manhood by Gods iustice be condemned to euerlasting death or to hell fire since there could nothing befall the humanitie of Christ which was vnfit for his Diuinitie they both being inseparably ioyned together or repugnant to that loue which God so often professed and proclamed from heauen or iniurious to the innocencie and obedience which God so highly accepted and rewarded or preiudiciall to mans saluation which God so long before purposed and promised No weight of sinne no heat of wrath no rigour of iustice could preuaile against the least of these to cast Christ out of heauen and combine him with diuels in the second death which is the lake burning with fire and brimstone There is onely left the third kinde of death which is corporall to which Christ yeelded himselfe willingly for the conseruation of Gods iustice who inflicted that paine on all men as the generall punishment of sinne for the demonstration of his power who by death ouercame death together with the cause and consequents thereof and for the consolation of the godly that they should not faint vnder the crosse nor feare what sinne and Satan could do against them It was loue then in God towards vs to giue his sonne for vs So God loued the world that he gaue his only begotten sonne that whosoeuer beleeueth in him should not perish but haue life euerlasting but farre greater loue to his sonne than to vs though the burden of our sinnes which we could not beare were layd vpon him For since God hath adopted vs through Christ Iesus vnto himselfe and made vs accepted in his beloued of force he must be much better beloued for whose sake we all are beloued And if to make the world by his sonne were an excellent demonstration of Gods euerlasting and exceeding loue towards his sonne to send him into the world that the world through him might be saued doth as farre in honour and loue exceed the former as our Redemption by which heauen is inherited doth passe our creation whereby the earth was first inhabited Neither was it possible that God should remit the rigor of iustice against sinne for the loue of any but onely of his owne sonne whom because he loued as deerely as himselfe and had made heire of all things worthily and rightly did the wrath of God against man asswage and yeeld to the loue of God towards his owne sonne against whom no punishment could proceed but such as was fatherly and serued rather to witnesse obedience than to execute vengeance For though you Sir Discourser in the height of your vnlearned skill resolue that Christ could suffer no chastisement but all his sufferings were the true and proper punishment or iust vengeance of God for sinne yet the Prophet Esay telleth vs the chastisment of our peace was vpon him and the word Musar which the Prophet there vseth deriued from Iasar is the proper word that in the Scripture signifieth the correction of a father towards his sonne and of God likewise towards his Church Chastise thy sonne saith Salomon while there is hope As a father chasteneth his sonne ‖ so ‖ the Lord chasteneth thee sayth Moses to Israel My Sonne refuse not the chastening of the Lord. Blessed is the man whom thou Lord doest chasten The like may be seene by those that will looke Deutr. 21. vers 18. Ierem. 2. vers 30. Ierem. 31. vers 18. Psal. 118. vers 18. The Apostle concurreth with the Prophet Esay touching Christes sufferings and sayth Though he were the sonne yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered He learned obedience which is the subiection of a sonne to his fathers chastisement he tasted not vengeance which is the indignation of an enemie requiting Yea the very death which Christ suffered in the body of his flesh was so farre from being an effect of Gods proper wrath that it was an increase of Gods loue towards him and as well the price of our Redemption as the cause of all his honor following Therefore the Father loueth me sayth our Sauiour because I lay downe my soule or life to take it againe And so much the Prophet foretolde Therefore will I giue him sayth God a part in many things and he shall diuide the spoile of or with the mightie because he poured out his soule or life vnto death Which the Apostle sheweth to be thus verified in Christ. He humbled himselfe being obedient vnto the death euen the death of the Crosse. Wherefore God also highly exalted him and gaue him a name aboue euery name that in the name of Iesu euery knee should bow of things celestiall terrestrial and infernall euery tongue confesse that Iesus Christ is the Lord to the glory of God the father All power honour and iudgement in heauen earth and hell are therefore deliuered
ouer to Christ by God and all things subiected vnder his feet because he hâ—…bled himselfe and was obedient to his father vnto death euen the death of the Crosse. Was it then wrath in God without loue that brought Christ to his death or rather vnspeakable loue in God towards his sonne which ouerruled his iustice prouoked by our sinnes and so highly accepted and plentifully rewarded the death of Christ that he made him LORD ouer all things and persons in heauen earth and hell to giue grace and peace mercie and glory to Gods elect by his meanes and merites and to inflict excecation destruction and damnation on the wicked both men and diuels by his iudgement and sentence If it were admirable loue and fauour in God towards Christs humane nature to ioyne mans flesh and spirit into the vnitie and societie of his Sonnes Diuine maiestie what inestimable honor and glory was it to put the whole gouernment of Gods kingdome in heauen and earth into Christs hands which is the reward that God hath allotted to Christs obedience patience shewed on the Altar of the Crosse So that the learned may soone perceiue I worke no deceit nor mistaking to the Reader through the ambiguitie of this word THE VVRATH OF GOD as you pretend but you wandring in the desart of your owne deuises haue fashioned to your selfe a fardle of phrases as Gods proper and improper wrath 〈◊〉 meere iustice and such like and vnder the generalitie and vncertaintie of these words you hide your head and when you are required to make some proofe and shew some parts of Gods wrath out of the Scripture which Christ suffered besides the death of the Crosse and paines thereof you answere to particularize or to specifie the parts of Gods wrath which Christ felt as I will you to doe what madnesse were it in men to attempt and what folly is it in any to require Indeede it would be madnesse in you to attempt it for thereby you should plainly disclose that absurditie and impietie which now is cloaked vnder generall and doubtfull termes but those that be godly will neuer suffer their faith to be framed by your phrases except you shew warrant of Gods word both whence you collect them and what you meane by them neither of which you doe nor can doe with any truth in these points now in question For first by what Scripture proue you that Christ did or must suffer the proper wrath of God or the punishment and vengeance of sinne I following the sense and words of the Scriptures and of Diuines both olde new which make shame sorrow paine and death in this life the effects of Gods wrath punishing sinne in Adam and his of-spring at his fall did by consequent a specie ad genus affirmatiue gather and in that respect confesse that Christ suffering those things on the Crosse suffered the wrath of God and due punishment of sinne in this life but you tell vs now the Scriptures in that point speake most improperly you haue found out that Gods wrath signifieth properly the paines of the damned and those Christ suffered for our sinnes True it is and long since by me auouched that Gods wrath against sinne extendeth to all the paines and punishments of Soule and body as well in hell as on earth and in comparison of the terrible torments of hell fier the paines and punishments of the faithfull in this life may be called and accounted rather the chastisements of a Father then the rigour of a Iudge but since you refuse that sense of Gods wrath which I collected from the Scriptures as very improper take no aduantage of my confession and let Gods wrath stand in your sense either for Gods displeasure against the person offending or for the vengeance of sinne executed on the wicked and damned I aske you now by what authoritie of holy Scripture can you prooue that Christ suffered Gods proper wrath or his wrath at all I recall not my former Resolution which I take to be sober and sound but you reiecting it as improper and deceitfull let vs see how you prooue by the Scriptures that Christ suffered Gods wrath which you so much presume and make the chiefe pillour of all your procedings In your late defence with shame enough you yeeld at last that this word HELL is not literally and expresly applyed to Christs sufferings in the Scriptures you must likewise yeeld by your leaue that this speech the wrath of God is not literally nor expresly affirmed of Christs sufferings in all the Scriptures That he was wounded for our transgressions and torne or trodden vnder feete for our iniquities and we healed by his stripes as also that he was afflicted and oppressed and bare our iniquities and poured out his soule vnto death the Prophet Esay witnesseth that he dranke of the Cup which his Father gaue him the Euangelists mention and the Apostle saith he was deliuered and died for our sinnes according to the Scriptures but none of these expresse or inferre that he suffered the proper wrath of God or full punishment and vengeance of sinne which are the phrases placed for the ground-worke of all your discourse though no way prooued by any shew of Scripture The words vsed generally by the holy Ghost to expresse Christs sufferings besides the former import that he gaue himselfe for vs to be the sacrifice the price and the ransome of our deliuerance All which wordes note no wrath conceiued against him nor vengeance executed on him but rather the exceeding loue and fauour of God towards him as the onely Sacrifice that God would accept the onely price that God did esteeme the onely ransome that God would receaue for the sinne of the world This Sacrifice was his body this price was his bloud this ransome was his death We are sanctified by the offering of the body of Iesus once ‖ made ‖ priceâ—…th â—…th Paule that is yee were redcemed with the precious blood of Christ saith Peter For we haue redemption in him by his blood And he is the mediatour of the new testament through death for the ransome of the transgressions in the former testament So that by the sacrifice of his bodie price of his blood and ransome of his death he hath made a most full recompence satisfaction and redemption for the sinnes of the world and consequently the punishment which he sustained when he bare our sinnes in his body on the tree was the full perfect purgation and propitiation of our sinnes full not in the degrees and parts of condemnation and vengeance due to sinne which the damned doe suffer as you falsely and absurdly insinuate but full in price and force of Redemption and deliuerance from sinne for somuch as Gods holinesse is highly pleased with the obedience Gods glory greatly aduanced by the humilitie and Gods iustice fully satisfied with the
which are nothing like nor neare the paines of hell For example in harty and true repentance how great is the griefe and paine of euery part and facultie of the soule detesting and abhorring sinne and fearing and feeling the power of Gods wrath and yet I trust ech penitent person doth not suffer the paines of hell Feare griefe and sorrow then the soule of Christ might deepely tast when he suffered for sinne and yet be farre from the paines of hell But your collection from my words is more absurd for where I say the soule of Christ might suffer for sinne yet by no meanes could it receiue the same wages of sinne which we should haue receiued you inferre not only without any words of mine but directlv against my words ergo I meane or I ought to meane that the soule and mind of Christ suffered the paines of hell from the immediate hand of God and so where I auouch Christ by no meanes could suffer the same wages of sin which we should haue suffered you paraphrase Imeane or I ought to meane Christ suffered the selfe same which we should haue suffered and of my negatiues you make affirmatiues and then tell the Reader I contradict my selfe But in plaine termes I allow in Christ all those afflictions and passions of the Soule which naturally and necessarily follow paine and this ALL reacheth vnto moe then meere bodily paines it includeth the soules proper and immediate paines also Where you learned to reason I doe not know but you haue the best grace to disgrace your selfe that euer I saw and if this be all the learning you haue you may clout shoes with this Al. Doe the torments of hell naturally and necessarily follow paine then whosoeuer in any part or for any cause is payned suffereth the paines of hell or at least the soules proper and immediate paines which you make extreamest and sharpest in hell Babes and boyes may thus bable it is a shame for men to talke so much out of square Let my words stand simplely as you bring them and allow in Christ all those afflictions and passions of the soule which naturally and necessarily follow paine what conclude you out of them your sight is very sharpe if you see any absurditie in them Howbeit you draw my words from their right course and sense by leauing out what pleaseth you My words are When the auncient fathers affirme that Christ dyed for vs the death of the body only we must not like children imagine they exclude the vnion operation or passion of the soule but in the death of his body and shedding of his blood they include all those afflictions and passions of the soule which naturally and necessarily follow paine and accompany death Christ suffering for vs a painefull death how could it be otherwise but such afflictions â—…nd passions of the soule as naturally and necessarily follow paine and accompâ—…ny deâ—…th should be found in the soule of Christ vnlesse we giue him an insensible flesh or impassiole soule both which are errors in the nature of Christ His flesh waâ—… sensible and his soule passible as ours is because they both were humane Paiâ—… then and death in my words are plainly referred to the body of Christ whose â—…lesh could not be wounded and blood shed as his was but naturally and necâ—…ssarily his â—…le must feele the paine thereof And yet if my words wâ—…e not limited to the paine of Châ—…sts body as indeed they are I see no inconueniencâ—… growing from them nor helpe for your fansie coÌ„tained in them Yet plaiâ—…er as fauoâ—…g your error I say 〈◊〉 paine griefe of body or mind be it neuer so great will commend Christs obedieâ—…ce patience And the punishment of sinne which proceedeth from the iusâ—…ice of God and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that Christ might and did beare Yea he suffered death with all painfâ—…â—…ut no sinfull 〈◊〉 or â—…onsequents How good a sempsteâ—… you are doth well appeaâ—… by your short cuâ—…ing and â—…ide 〈◊〉 â—…hing my words together The first sentence you take our of a Section of my 〈◊〉 wherein I purposely shew that not only the paines of hell but euen the feare oâ—… 〈◊〉 must â—…e farre from the soule of Christ. The suffering of hell paines in the soule of Christ I there refuse as not consâ—…t to the Christian 〈◊〉 but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to the 〈◊〉 â—…ertaintie sanctâ—…ie of Christs person 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 with God Immediatly after the words which you bring I say 〈◊〉 Christ there could beâ—… no apprehension of hâ—…ll paines as due to him or determiâ—… for him but â—…e mâ—…st 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 â—…are that God would be inconstant or vâ—…st which are more then 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Yea to these very words which you 〈◊〉 I â—…oyne this exception in the same 〈◊〉 but the sense of damnation or separatâ—…n from God or the feare or doubt thereof in Chrâ—…t as they quench faith and abolish grace so they dissolue the vnion and commuâ—…on of â—…ath 〈◊〉 natures or else breed a false persuasion and sinfull temptation in the soule of Christ. Who can be so sottish as not to see that my former words import Smart 〈◊〉 and gâ—…fe of body and mind which haue in them neither senâ—…e nor seare of hell paines that is of damnation or separation from God since no man is damned but vnto the pâ—…ines and place of hell and is first separated from God Wâ—…th as great discretion you fasten on an other sentence of mine where though 〈◊〉 â—…position be not generall but indefinite and hath two restraints euen from your 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to wit in this liâ—…e where Christ suffeâ—…ed in â—… like to vs who aâ—… his 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 you throw off all forgetting what your selâ—…e obiected and whereto I 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 â—…nswere and suppose that here I fully concurre with your conâ—…ites But 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 your owne obiection and that will rightly guide my solution Your reason which you proudly boasted could not be refuâ—…ed by the wiâ—… of man â—…as as you call 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 from the lesâ—…e to the more Thus doe the members of Chriâ—… 〈◊〉 the terrors 〈◊〉 God and sorrowes of hâ—…ll therefore of necessitie Christ suffered the likâ—… Pâ—…ooue you by this Aâ—…gument that Christ aâ—…ter this life suffered the terrors of God and sorrowes of hell I doe you wrong to â—…pect it for it is open impietie so to thinke or say Then do you more wrong to imagine that I extended my words farther then to refell your reason As you spake of this life though you expressed it not so I replied that the puâ—…shment 〈◊〉 sâ—…nne which proceedeth from the iustice of God in this life and is no sinne Christ might and did beare but in no wiâ—…e those terrors and feares of consciâ—…nce which procâ—… from sinne and aâ—…gment sinne Now I pray you what allowance finde you here for your new erected hell or how force you my words to fit your deuises Terror of conscience and feare of hell could haue no
place in Christ by reason they proceede in 〈◊〉 from râ—…morle of sinne weaknesse of faith and doubt for the time of Gods fauour which we cannot ascribe to Christ without drawing him into the dregges of our sinne And therefore when we compare his suffering with ours we must alwayes except the rootes and branches of our corruption for that they be taintes of sinne and wants of gâ—…ace neither of which may be admitted in the soule of Christ. Now if I exclude the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and terrour of conscience from the person of Christ in the same sentence which you quote how should my words sound in your eares as if I admitted the true paines of hell to be suffered in the soule of Christ which I haue often said the wicked doe not suffer in this life muchlesse Christs members whence you fet your patâ—…e for Christs sufferings least of all Christ himselfe on whom that vengeance by no iustice could be inflicted The mortall bodies of men and their fraile life are by no meanes capable of those terrible iudgements of God against sinne reserued for another world and howsoeuer your errour leadeth you to aduenture the making of a new hell my resolution is euery where occurrent in my Sermons that no iustice of God could award against his owne Sonne the same paines which the damned in hell doe suffer if we measure their paines by the Scriptures and not by your fansies besides that the members of Christ are not subiected in this life to those torments of hell which the reprobate in an other place doe and shall endure There is no condemnation to them that are in Christ Iesus How then should the Lord Iesus himselfe not onely feare which I there denie but also suffer the same condemnation to hell paines which the wicked and accursed doe and shall suffer We say not Christ suffered simply all the paines of the damned he felt not such as are by their very nature sinnes as well as paines as indeede desperation is â—… When God offereth grace and mercie as in this world he doth to many to renounce or refuse is a damnable sinne but in hell where there is no promise nor possibilitie of either there to despaire is no sinne yea rather there to hope that Gods irreuocable iudgement shal be altered and his setled counsell changed were to hope that God will be false of his word and wauering in his will which indeede is a mightie sinne And therefore neither reiection confusion destruction desperation nor damnation are sinnes in hell but the iust and fearefull punishments of sinne ordained by Gods iustice and inflicted by Gods power who there requireth no obedience but onely executeth vengeance the suffering whereof is not sinnefull though it be neuer so painefull to the damned abiding for euer in the pollution and confusion of their sinnes here committed So that if my Lordship as you call it doe stand to my words and not clippe them nor renounce them your Patriark ship gaineth little by them for your purpose For I by no meanes acknowledge that the true paines of hell are inflicted on any in this life and by no iustice could the Sonne of God be damned to suffer hell paines either in substance or in circumstance as the Scriptures describe them And therefore your vaunting before the victorie depending onely on the foolish mistaking or peeuish peruerting of my words is as â—…idieulous as it is vaine-glorious All you can get is this that if you can be suffered to wrest my wordes from their coherence and sense without respecting what goeth in the same Section before them or what is ioyned in the same sentence with them and then interlace them with other wordes of your owne seruing your turne when mine doe not you can picke out two or three lines in the whole booke that thus abused and corrupted shall sound somewhat towards the secrets of your phantasticall hell By which arte of yours you make me say in one section that the iustice of God both temporally and eternally punisheth the soule ONLY by the bodie and in the next section you say I grant that Christ did beare punishment of sinne AS GREAT AS ANY IS proceeding from the iustice of God yet being no sinne and so with adding ONLY to my wordes in the first place and as GREAT AS ANY IS in the second you haue made some shew of contradiction in my positions or at least in your additions Thus much for the examination and refutation of those maine diuisions and positions which the Discourser hath laid for the foundation of his cause in his generall opening of the Question and likewise for the clearing of those contradictions which he falsely supposed to be in my writings Wherein if I would haue taken the trade which he doth I could with farre more breuitie and facilitie haue denied all that he affirmeth and ballanced my no to be euery way as good as his yea but for their sakes that cannot discusse those things themselues I haue not refused more largely and fully to expresse and proue the trueth in ech of those points which he catcheth hold of in defence of his errour and thereby haue giuen the Reader to vnderstand that this Discoursers new doctrine is as wide from the veritie as from the authoritie of holy Scripture There remain the particular challenges such as they are which this impugner maketh to many parts points of my Sermons and of my conclusion annexed to them as also his defence of those speciall reasons published in his first Treatise which I refuted as farre as needed in the conclusion afore mentioned In which I meane to spend no more time then necessitie forceth me but to referre the Reader to the places where the things are purposely handled except some new matter not fully debated be offered vnto me by reason whereof I may sometimes be drawen to make larger proofe of some things shortly but truely before vttered by me and ignorantly if not peruersely mistaken by him To the Discoursers chalenge that I forced my Text by mistaking the crosse of Christ for Christs personall sufferings on the Crosse where Paul meaneth the afflictions of Christes members in this world I made in the conclusion of my Sermons a tripartite answere 1. That the Crosse of Christ did alwayes in the Scriptures import the personall sufferings of Christ on the Crosse and neuer the afflictions of the godly 2. That the circumstances of the Text conuinced no lesse which were Pauls earnest renouncing of all ioy saue in the Crosse of Christ and his vehement opposing himselfe to those that ioyned circumcision to the Crosse of Christ least they should suffer persecution for it at the hands of the Iewes 3 That the best and most ancient Fathers Ierom Chrysostome Austen and others expounded these words precisely of Christs death on the Crosse. To this what replieth our Controuller The crosse of Christ here signifieth I grant Christ crucified not in his owne
gloriae ducunt à me vero procul sit caeterarum rerum iactantia Licet in vna Christi cruce morte admodum gloriars They sayth Paul count circumcision a glorie farre be it from me to boast in other things It is lawfull for me thorowly to reioyce only in the crosse and dâ—…ath of Christ Iesus Some will aske How or why doest thou reioyce in the Lords crosse For that he was crucified for my sake which aâ—… no bodie and loued me so deerely that he offered himselfe to death for me Oecumenius What is this reioycing in Christs crosse which Paul speaketh of That for vs who were vnworthy Christ would be crucified for that is the cause we haue to glorie Haymo vpon the same place in the person of Paul sayth I will not reioyce in the riches and dignities of this world but in the crosse of Christ that is I will reioyce in his passion which was celebrated on the crosse whence is my redemption and saluation Moe I might easily bring but these for antiquitie may suffice The grauest and exactest of the new writers agree with the Fathers Bullinger Whereas Paul might haue vsed a simple kinde of affirmation ONLY THE DEATH OF CHRIST is sufficient for me to saluation he chose rather to expresse it by the way of detestation and to say Farre be it from me to reioyce but in the crosse of our Lord Iesus Christ. Where againe the second time by the crosse he meaneth the death sacrifice and expiation of the Lord Christ and the whole worke of our redemption Gualter in his 59. homilie vpon that Epistle sayth Now Paul opposeth himselfe to those false teachers declaring how he himselfe is affected and vpon that occasion repeateth the Summe of his doctrine touching the redemption and saluation of mankind in these words Be it farre from me to reioyce but in the crosse of our Lord Iesus Christ. He might haue sayd simply I reioyce only in Christ crucified in whose crosse I know there is reposed for me life and saluation But he vseth such a kind of speech as teacheth vs their insolencie was an abominable and capitall offence Caluin a man for his great paines in the Church of God worthy of great praise where he steppeth not too much aside from the ancient Fathers expounding these words of Paul sayth To reioyce in Christs crosse is as much as in Christ crucified but that it expresseth more for it signifieth that death of Christs which was full of reproch and shame and was accursed of God That death then which men abhorre and whereof they are ashamed in that death Paul sayth he reioyceth because he hath perfect blessednesse therein Piscator in his Scholies vpon Pauls Epistle to the Galathians noting what crosse of Christ it was for which the false teachers would not suffer persecution sayth Ob crucem Christs id est ob doctrinam Euangelij de salute part a per solam Christi crucem they would not suffer persecution for the crosse of Christ that is for the doctrine of the Gospell teaching saluation to be purchased by the crosse of Christ only There is not a new writer of any iudgement or diligence which ioyneth not with these and howsoeuer some of them withall auouch that Paul meant to shew by this opposing himselfe to these false teachers that hee shunned not persecution for the crosse of Christ as they did but reioyced in the doctrine of the crosse by which the elect are saued what affliction soeuer befell him therefore yet they deriue that part of Pauls meaning not from the confused signification of Christs crosse as you doe but either from the EFFICACIE thereof by which Paul was crucified to the world and the world to him in neglecting the flattery and enduring the fury of such as opposed themselues against Christ or from the CONFORMITIE to it that as he desired to reigne so he was willing to suffer with Christ and therefore reioyced as well in the fellowship as in the force and effects of Christes sufferings on the crosse or lastly from the CONTRARIETIE to the false teachers that though they adulterated the true doctrine of Christes crosse because they would decline persecution it was Paulâ—… ioy to teach sincerely the power of Christ crucified whosoeuer pursued him for so doing This sinceritie and duetie of the Apostle I am farre from denying but the crosse of Christ I constantly referre to the doctrine of mans redemption and saluation by the crosse of Christ that is by his personall sufferings on the crosse as all those old and new writers do and not to the troubles and afflictions of the godly to which if this Discourser dare ascribe the meane or merit of mans redemption or saluation he falleth from puritie to poperie and from the Christian faith to open heresie Thou seest then gentle Reader how sure ground and iust reason I had to propose that sense of my text which I did as also how vntruely vnwisely and headily this fellow ranne first to the challenging of my text and still vpholdeth his humour with his priuate dreame of Christs crosse conteining ioyntly together all the afflictions of Christ and his members from the beginning of the world to the ending thereof and maketh the false teachers as fearing persecution for the commending of his conceit to ioyne circumcision to the doctrine of the Gospell and so by altering and interlacing Pauls words after his owne fansie hee hath hatched at last an exposition without head or heele which no man vnderstandeth besides himselfe and the Diuines of all ages both new and olde do contradict But I committed another great ouersight in handling my text which was to take occasion from the text to speake of any thing for you count them the faithfullest and wisest handlers of Scripture which conclude euen from their text firmly and first of all what soeuer they afterwards teach thereupon Indeed I thinke your maner be to conclude all that you afterward say euen from your text without the helpe of any other places of Scripture You be so fast in your conceits and so loose in your conclusions that you can inferre any thing of euery thing Euery word you speake you tie to your text as firmly as flax to fire but if you would take the paines once to proue that you say and not only to say that which you should prooue you would finde great difference betwixt the firmnesse of a fansie in which you be so resolute and of an argument which for ought I yet see in your writings you scant make not vnderstand And where you quarrell with such handling of texts as is vsuall in these dayes but no good nor commendable vse your reading must be greater and iudgement better before you take vpon you to controle the Preachers of England for mishandling their texts Many hundreds there are of whom you may learne both how to diuide and how to pursue your theme your skill is not such
that you should professe your selfe a Method-master to this Realme When I tooke occasion from my text to lay downe first the contents then the effects of Christs crosse as the Scriptures did deliuer them that is what Christ suffered on his crosse for vs and what he performed by his crosse to vs say good Sir out of your new found art what fault you finde either with the matter or with the method Christes crosse you say signifieth here no such thing but the afflictions of Christ and his members That is the vanitie of your errour that is not the trueth of my text Christ crucified in his owne person for mans redemption is the full purport of Christs crosse in my text as in my Sermons I shortly declared in my conclusion I more amplie proued and now I trust I haue therein fully satisfied the Reader That standing good I note what Christ suffered which I call the contents of his crosse and to what end he suffered which are the effects of his crosse both these are aptly and fairely closed in my text and by other places of Scripture iustly proued to be comprised in my text This forsooth your mastership liketh not but I must make syllogismes out of euery word conteined in my text or els I make the Scriptures such an instrument as they ought not to be Silly Sir you vnderstand not what you say first learne and after teach lest you teach that you neuer learned When it is sayd Giue vnto God the things which are Gods can you out of these words without the aid of other Scriptures firmely conclude what things are Gods and how they must be giuen vnto him or must you proue that by other places of holy Scripture Euen so when I had shewed what was iustly inclosed within the words of my theme I made direct ful proofe thereof by other places of holy writ which I take to be a sound and sure way of well vsing the Scriptures to that very purpose they should be applied notwithstanding your palterie prouisoes that no man must after speake any thing that can not firmely be concluded by the sole and single words of his text which is a rule fit for such a Rouer as you are that neuer soundly proue any thing but not for him that will fully diuide and rightly deliuer as well the sense as the sound of any sentence of holy Scripture which he taketh in hand to vnfold To shew your selfe a firme and fine concluder vpon texts you exemplifie your skill and inferre that in three speciall points I my selfe by my very text ouerthrow my selfe in the first entrance as all men may see First in that I expresly grant the proper sufferings of Christes minde may rightly be in the contents of his crosse contrary to my maine opinion that Christs bodily sufferings ALONE were the full price of our redemption Secondly that Christs soule in a large sense may be sayd to be crucified if I suppose my text to signifie the whole contents of Christs crosse which I reproued in you with great contempt Thirdly in that I quite ouerthrow my second question for if it be a detestable thing to reioyce but in the crosse of Christ then Christes descent to hell after death must either be a part of the contents of his crosse and so he must suffer among the diuels and damned spirits or els he did vs no good there if we may not reioyce in his descending thither These iarres in my selfe you say I must reconcile els men will thinke I haue not handled my text indeed very rightly These iarres good Sir for so much as concerneth me are soone reconciled Your first obiection is a plaine falsitie your second an open follie your third a meere mockerie The contents of Christs crosse I extended to those griefs wrongs and paines which Christ suffered in his passage to his crosse as namely his submission in the garden his apprehension accusation illusion flagellation condemnation and such like all which he felt before he was fastened to the tree and though indeed they were precedents to his crosse yet because the griefe and smart of them continued and increased with his hanging on the tree the Scripture doth not exclude them from the crosse of Christ which often meaneth by that word the whole course and maner of Christes death and passion as well in comming to his crosse as in hanging on his crosse As for the proper sufferings of the minde those be none of my words yet if you thereby meane care and feare shame and sorrow not repugnant to the condition and perfection of Christes person let them in Gods name come within the contents of Christes crosse as antecedents or consequents to the paines which he suffered But if vnder the proper sufferings of the soule you conuey the suffering of hell paines or the death of the soule from the immediate hand of God which is your dreame keepe your errours for your owne accounts my words haue no such matter nor meaning How then can my maine opinion be true that Christs bodily sufferings ALONE were the full price of our Redemption which I would also ground on all the Fathers though very vntruely How can your obiections be waightie that speake neuer a true word By Christs bodily sufferings I no where exclude either the sense consideration or affection of the Soule discerning the paines which and the cause why the body suffered as you falsely imagine I only except the death of the Soule and paines of hell in Christs sufferings and to barre that I shew by many sufficient testimonies of the auncient Fathers which you shall neuer ouerbeare for all your bragges that Christ dyed for vs the death of the bodie onely and not the death of the soule In this case I vse the word ONLY as hath beene often told you otherwise to exclude the vnion operation or passion of the soule from Christs sufferings I neuer vse it And where I so often and instantly vrge that Christs death and blood-shedding are specified in the Scriptures as the full price of our Redemption and true meanes of our reconciliation to God You foolishly by their fulnesse would turne out all the rest of Christs sufferings as superfluous but my words throughout my sermons are expresse to the contrarie The crosse blood and death of Christ are euery where mentioned in the Scriptures as the very ground-worke and pillars of our Redemption And the things which are named in the Scriptures as they were the last so are they the chiefest parts of Christs sufferings the rest being vnderstood as antecedent to them and not eminent aboue them So that by the death and blood of Christ I neither did nor doe exclude the rest of his sufferings before he came to his crosse only I make them Antecedent to that not eminent aboue that which he suffered on the crosse For as the end of euery thing presupposeth a beginning and a middle and the
necessarily by Gods power and ordinance adioyned vnto it For no man can reioyce in the cause but he must likewise reioyce in the effects and where the Antecedent is expressed the consequent is therewithall intended Now the crosse of Christ in it selfe without the effects was and is most odious and scandalous to men as appeareth by the Iewes and Gentiles ignorant thereof and offended therewith So that when the godly professe they reioyce in the crosse of Christ they meane in the loue of Christ who willinglie endured the paine and shame of the crosse to purchase them euerlasting blisse and therewith procured and established all the meanes and parts of their Redemption iustification and sanctification in this liâ—…e and saluation in the life to come and but in respect of Christs loue submitting himselfe to the crosse and of those effects merited and obtained by the crosse of Christ they take no pleasure much lesse ioy in his griefes and torments as the wicked did that put him to death Wherefore it was an easie thing for euery childe to see that when the Apostle reioyced in the death of Christ suffered for vs and for our saluation he also reioyced in the consequents of Christs death as his Resurrection ascension sitting at the right hand of God and promised returne to Iudgement by which as by certaine degrees and steps our iustification mortification sanctification and saluation are assured and performed Now a consequent to Christs death if not a part or preamble to his Resurrection from the dead is the destruction of the diuell and of hell which is the chiefe place of Satans power as I thinke and as the Church of Christ before me hath thought notwithstanding all that you haue said or can say to the contrarie Thus standeth my Text neither forced nor misapplied as by your ioynt mysticall imagination of a new crosse you supposed but rightly both conceiued and referred to the painfull sufferings and powerfull effects of Christ on the crosse in which the Apostle so reioyced that he detested all things different from it or derogatorie to it and the iarres which so much offended your eares were but your owne iests and iefallies not truely reporting but grosly mistaking the sense and sequels of my positions Proceeding forward I still shew a badde minde towards you seeking foorthwith euen in the entrance to draw you without cause into hatred for disdaining the Fathers What then is your contempt and disdaine of the Fathers which I so often report in sundry places and as odiously as is possible Surely you beleeue I can not tell happily it is because you follow not their authorities in some opinions of religion nor in diuers expositions of Scripture What need you seeke so busily for that which I so plainly haue exemplified vnto you you affourd the Fathers when pleaseth you neither true knowledge of the first principles of their faith nor the right vnderstanding of words familiar in their natiue tongue nor so much as reasonable or likely expositions of the Scriptures but fond and absurd as you terme them and yet you aske What is your insolent dealing against the Fathers With one consent they teach that for our redemption Christ died the death of the body only and by no meanes the death of the soule You teach that Christ must die the death of the soule before he could redeeme vs and that his bodily sufferings properly did not make to our redemption And though Austen aske Who dare auouch that Christ died in soule or in his humane spirit you not only dare and doe it but you make it the maine ground of our redemption wherein you condemne him and the rest of the ancient and learned Fathers as ignorant of the very way and meane of our redemption So likewise that Christ receiued vpon him the punishment but not the guilt of our sinne that the second death in the Scriptures is the eternall punishment of bodie and soule and that the death of the bodie was inflicted on Adam and all his posteritie as a punishment of sinne in these and many such which are deliuered as sound conclusions of Christian religion you oppose your selfe against S. Austen and the rest and reiect their iudgements as false and erroneous And for the sense and signification of words vsed in the Scriptures you lustily controle them in their natiue speech and leaue them not so much as the true vnderstanding of the Greeke or Latine tongue This I affirme say you it is only the Fathers abusiue speaking and altering the vsuall and ancient sense of Hades that bredde this error of Christs descending into hell their vnapt and perillous translating into Latine Inferi And note heere first it is a thing too rife with the Fathers yea with some of the ancientest of them to alter and change the authentike vse of words whereby consequently it is easie for errours and grosse mistakings to creepe in This challenge of yours against the credits and consciences of so many learned and worthy Fathers as haue vsed the word hades to signifie the place of hell how insolent it is I leaue to the wise Reader to iudge when he shall see that indeed they concurre with the writers of the new Testament and with the ancient and vulgar vnderstanding of their owne tongue How you entertaine their expositions of the Scripture your owne words doe witnesse when you replie to interpretations alledged out of them this sense is most absurd this is no lesse absurd than the former there is no reason nor likelihood for it This is more fond and absurd than the other This is the reuerence and louing regard you beare towards their opinions and iudgements for the manifolde graces of God that were otherwise in them and this you thinke is no contempt nor disdaine of the Fathers I call the Fathers iudgements many times AVTHORITIES that the world might conceiue their words to be warrants vnto vs and good authorities to rest on in matters of Religion If I had not this drift in my minde why giue I them such a title which to you seemeth somewhat insolent indeed What difference there is betwixt the authoritie of God and man in matters of religion I need not to learne nor you to teach there is no such thing in question betwixt vs S. Austen hath long since in sundrie places of his works humbly truely and fully confessed and professed the eminence of the Canonicall Scriptures aboue and against all the writings of others whosoeuer they be with him I wholly ioyne in iudgement This therefore is an idle shift of yours to guesse what drifts I haue in my minde and that I goe about to impaire the soueraigntie and certaintie of the Scriptures by giuing such a title to the expositions and opinions of the Fathers as to call them Authorities As though the best learned Diuines both new and olde did not vse the same word in the same
contemning or despising of the Fathers But you will proceede to the speciall examples wherein I charge you with despising the Fathers and I will not be long after you First where you say out of certaine Fathers that Christ in his dying gaue vp his spirit miraculously no violence of death wresting it from him as it doth ours but when he saw his time he euen at an instant laid it downe of himselfe Contrarie to this I alleaged the Scripture HE VVAS LIKE VS IN ALL THINGS sinne onely excepted To answere this you reply was he like vs in his birth Can we lie in the graue without corruption as he lay Or raise our selues from death as he did Which poore answere I wonder to see comming from you As well you might shew farder he was not like vs in that he walked on the water nor in that he fasted fortie dâ—…s nor in that he knew the secrets of mens harts nor in that he turned water into wine and with a word healed all diseases These things done by his manhood yet were they the proper effects of his Godhead they were no naturall but spirituall things You may wonder at what you will and though your proofes and replies be not worth the paper you wast yet you so powder them with figures and fansies that you thinke them very pretious Where I obserued out of Augustine Ierome and Bernard that the manner of Christs death was not like ours though his death were the same that ours is I meane the separation of the soule from the body by reason he had perfect sense and strong speech euen to the very instant that of his owne accord when he saw his time he breathed out his soule whereas both speech and sense doe faile in vs before we die and our soules are taken from vs we can not breath them out when we will to impeach this obseruation you cast out first reprochfull words and then vntidy proofes such as your store could best affourd Here a fine fable is offered vs say you a Paradoxe in nature and contrary to the Scripture which saith HE VVAS LIKE VS IN ALL THINGS sinne onely excepted This scornefull speech and bare pretence of Scripture misapplied to your peeuish conceite is all the answere you vouchsafe to those auncient and reuerend Fathers I meane Saint Austen and Saint Ierome To repell this pride of yours and to make you perceaue the misconstering of the Scriptures I shortly replyed Was Christ like vs in his birth in his graue or in his resurrection If he were vnlike vs in these and yet those words must stand true then might he also be vnlike vs in his death and no proofe out of those words could be made to the contrarie At this poore answere you wonder but you and your adherents lay your wits together as you haue done your heads you shal neuer refell this answere as poore as it is without confessing the weaknesse of your owne proofe For if you restraine the text which you brought to naturall humane properties and infirmities as now you doe then most apparantly his birth and his graue must in all things be like to ours for they are in vs naturall humane properties or infirmities To be borne of a Virgin not to rotte in graue and to rise from the dead Those Diuine effects you say are iustly beleeued to haue beene in Christ because of the expresse Scripture that witnesseth the same But then the text which you vrged he was like vs in all things must haue an other meaning then you made shew of And so it well may for euen in his birth in his graue and in his resurrection he was like to vs though not in euery circumstance thereof His body was made of the seede and substance of his mother as ours is though she a Virgin and we were begotten by our Fathers It also lay senselesse and dead in the graue as ours doth though it could not returne to dust as ours shall He rose from the dead to a celestiall and immortall life and so shall we but not when we will nor of our owne power as he did So that he was like vs in all things that is in euery part of our nature and in euery kind of humane infirmities but not like vs in euery action circumstance or consequent of all humane properties and infirmities For so we should depriue him of that fulnesse of wisdome grace and power wherewith his humane soule was indued farre vnlike to ours not only if we respect naturall properties and infirmities in vs which are vtterly voide of these gifts but if we compare our measure of knowledge grace and strength with the abundance of his spirit Then might he be like vs euen in death also which parted his soule from his body as it doth ours though he were vnlike vs in power to dye when he would which we can not and retained full force of sense and speech to the very moment of giuing vp his Ghost which we doe not Againe the words following in the Text He was like vs in all things SINNE EXCEPTED are a sufficient exemption of Christ from our manner of death as well as from our kind of birth and rotting in the graue For we are borne in sinne which he might not be therefore was to be borne of a Virgin to auoid all concupiscence as well of a Father as in his Mother without whom he could not be made our flesh So rotte we in the graue by reason of sinne dwelling in our bodies which must be changed into dust whence we were taken in reward of our first fathers sinne from whose loynes we come with like infection of sinne This Christs body might by no possibilitie admit though you in the margin of your booke make a false note to the contrarie First for that no part of his person might vtterly be dissolued or corrupted after it was once vnited to his Godhead but must remaine for euer inseparable from his Diuine nature and so incorruptible because God was vnited not to dust or ashes but to humane flesh which so must still continue Secondly for that all Christs sufferings for sinne must haue in them exact and perfect obedience and so precisely sense and will in euery passion to submit himselfe to the hand of God which in death he might doe and did but in rotting iâ—… the graue where sense and will wanted he could not doe Lastly the Apostle extendeth Christs obedience in suffering no farder then to the death of the Crosse after which could follow no fatder humiliation and so no corruption to dust but a sure confirmation of his death by lying three daies in the graue and a plaine pledge of his resurrection because he could not see corruption The same words exempt Christ from our manner of death For where death entred not but by sinne and the soule of ech man to this day by a naturall instinct sheweth her secret abhorring of death and open
nature of man and solus erat vitam ponendi dominus Christ alone was the Ruler or master of laying downe his life Howbeit in your mocking vaine you goe on and say that I will conclude this better You must remember what God himselfe saith O foole this night they shall fetch away thy soule from thee Whereto you adde I remember it well what then ergo Christ saying none taketh my life from me ment he would dye miraculously and not by the fayling of nature in him If this be the reason verely I graunt it is marueylous subtill and past my reach If you ouer-reach no more then this reason doth you will come short of all your new conceits If your memory be not too much moistened you may call to mind that this place was brought to prooue Christ was vnlike vs in the laying downe of this soule and if I be not as grosse as you are gamesome it proueth it very directly God by those words expresseth the rich man should that night die and thereby teacheth vs that when we dye our soules are taken from vs. So that it is not in our power to keepe our soules in our bodies as long as we will nor to leaue them when we list but when God sendeth will we nill we they are taken from vs. This Christ denieth to be verified in him none tooke his soule from him but he laid is downe of himselfe which we cannot doe Hence if it please you to frame but this reason which is in open sight All mens soules are taken from them when they dye Christs soule was not taken from him when he dyed ergo Christ dyed not in the same manner that we doe and so was vnlike vs in his death by the manifest wordes of the Scripture you shall see a plaine truth not past your reach though repugnant to your purpose But I should proue Christ died miraculously not naturally That at last after long and sore anguish of mind bodily torments his natural strength failed him therfore he bowed his head and gaue vp the ghost what miracle is there in this Men may well maruaile at your folly who turne wind euery way rather then you will acknowledge that which the Scriptures expresly witnesse was in Christ aboue mans nature which they that saw it marueiled at which the best Diuines of all ages haue confessed to be miraculous in the death of Christ To haue perfect sense speach and moâ—…on at the very instant of giuing vp the ghost is a thing not possible to our nature Our speach and sense luntaâ—… motion doe first euidently faile before our soules depart from our bodies But Christ had all three by the full report of the Euangelists euen to the very act of breathing out of his soule Saint Iohn writeth that Iesus knowing all things were fulfilled said I thirst and when he had tasted the vineger he said it is finished and inclining his head gaue vp the ghost Hee noteth in Christ exact memorie of all things written in the Scripture touching him Plaine speach and voluntarie motion in laying downe his head at the very moment that he yeelded vp the ghost S. Luke witnesseth that crying with a lowde voyce Christ said Father into thine hands I will commend or lay down my Spirit 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 And speaking these words hee breathed out his soule The lowdnesse of his voyce and effect of his prayer professing hee would now die and at the same instant performing it by giuing vp his spirit conclude that neither sense memorie speach nor prayer failed him to the last breath as they doe vs when wee draw towards death and therefore the maner of his death to bee farre distant from ours Anone after you say he might die and in the meane while both sense and speach faile him before he died Your libertie to iudge of the sense of the Scripture doeth lead you and hold you to this errour You imagine what please you of the words of the Euangelists and auerting them from their true coherence by interposing your fansies you maintaine it as your right to iudge of the meaning of the holy Ghost But consult your conscience that you â—…st not with the truth and compare the Euangelists words and purpose together and you shall soone see the course and force of them To what end doe the Euangelists so carefully note in Christ these circumstances not vsuall with vs noâ—… possible for vs at the departure of our soules but onely to shew the trueth of his owne words that none tooke his soule from him but hee laied it downe of himselfe which he had power to doe and accordingly did and therefore they describe him remembring all things calling euen for drinke because hee was exceeding drie through paine warning the people standing about him with a lowde prayer that he would now lay downe his soule into his Fathers hands And so bowing his head of his owne accord he forthwith breathed out his soule Anone after say you but nature first decaying in him Presently say I when there was in him no decay of nature nor any want of memorie sense or speach In vaine else were all those things both performed by our Sauiour and testified by the Euangelists if this were not the scope thereof that Christ with actuall and perfect obedience deuotion and submission to the will of God and therefore also with full and perfect memorie sense and speach did aboue the strength and vse of men willingly and powerfully with one breath render his soule into the hands of his Father who had decreed hee should die but gaue him leaue and power to lay downe his soule of his owne accord when hee would without constraint or stroke of death wresting or taking his soule from him And that the maner of Christs death was miraculous euen in his owne Person and draue the standers by to confesse hee was more then a man that so could die if you could but open your partial eares you should heare the Euangelists cofirme though you very coursely intreate S. Ierom as bending himselfe therein against the plaine text where indeed he rightly pursueth the words of the holy Ghost and you would saucily controle one text by an other and not seeke to reconcile them together Saint Markes words are these And Iesus crying with a lowde voyce gaue vp the ghost and the Centurion that stoode ouerright him seeing 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that crying in such sort hee breathed out his soule said Surely this man was the Sonne of God This crying so lowde which Saint Marke speaketh of was that prayer whereby Christ commended his soule into his Fathers hands as S. Luke testifieth for those were the last words hee spake at the time when he gaue vp the ghost The breathing out of his soule so presently vpon so strong a voyce and â—…o lowde a prayer was so strange that it forthwith mooued the Centurion who stoode
ouerright him and well obserued him to pronounce that he was the Sonne of God What now hath Ierom offended I pray you in noting that which S. Marke writeth that the Centurion hearing Christ say to his Father Into thy hands I commend my spirit ET STATIM SPONTE and foorthwith of his owne accord to haue giuen vp the ghost mooued with the greatnesse of this wonder said truely this man was the Sonne of God I vrge Ierom you say against the plaine text in an other place which saith When the Centurion sâ—…w the Earthquake the things which were done he said truly this man was the Sonne of God If Ierom should haue falsified one text as you haue done to out-face an other he were worthy to be blamed but your libertie to iudge of the Scriptures at your pleasure must excuse you What hath Ierom said in those words which Saint Marke and S. Luke in effect did not before him That the lowde voyce which Christ vsed presently before his yeelding vp the ghost was that prayer which Ierom mentioneth S. Luke witnesseth And speaking those words saith S. Luke Christ gaue vp the ghost That was a very strange and marueilous thing to the Centurion to heare him so speake and see him so die Saint Marke obserueth The Centurion seeing that crying in such sort Christ gaue vp the ghost said Surely this man was the Sonne of God Could it mooue the Centurion that had the charge to see Christ executed to this confession and not seeme strange vnto him Pilate that gaue sentence of death vpon him Marueiled he was so soone dead and doe you thinke it much S. Ierom should say it was a wonder But in S. Matthew it is expresly noted that the Earthquake chiâ—…ly did mooue the Centurion so to thinke and speake Saint Marke saith The Centurion that stoode ouer-right Christ and beheld him when hee saw in what sort hee cried and died said Truely this was the Sonne of God After his death the Earthquake and other things that followed the death of Christ caused the Centurion and his Souldiers as they were keeping Iesus now dead greatly to feare and with one voyce now to confesse that surely he was the Sonne of God Both which reports stand true together the one not ouerthrowing the other For the Centurio alone at the hearing of Christs voyce and sight of his death did first affirme it Afterward when Christ was dead as the Centurion and his souldiers kept his body on the Crosse till Pilates pleasure were knowen the wonders which followed Christs death as the shaking of the earth the cleauing of the rockes and opening of the graues made the Centurion and those that were with him watching Iesus greatly to feare and with one mind to say Truely this was the Sonne of God So that your words HE SAID meaning thereby the Centurion are not in S. Matthew but the Centurion and those that were with him SEEING the wonders that followed Christs death greatly feared saying Truely this man was the Sonne of God And had the Centurion seene nothing wonderfull in Christs person before he died how should hee and the rest haue gathered certainely that these things declared Christ and none other to be the Sonne of God But Christ suffering all things with silence and patience till the instant of his death he then shewed himselfe to die with a strange and diuine power aboue mans nature which the Centurion first marked and therefore confesâ—…ed him to be the Sonne of God when the rest of the wonders that followed the death of Christ were perceiued they confirmed him and all his souldiers in the same opinion yea all the people that came to that sight beholding the things which were done smote their brests and returned Where S. Luke also putteth a manifest difference betwixt the Centurion and the rest of the people Of the Centurion hee saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 seeing what was done in that Christ praying gaue vp the ghost hee glorified God and said truely this man was iust Of the rest Saint Luke saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Beholding the sundry things that were done after Christs death they stroke their brests and returned This miraculous and diuine power which appeared in the person of our Sauiour breathing out his soule at an instant when he would and as he would besides and beyond the nature of man at which the Centurion so much wondered the best Diuines of all ages haue likewise obserued and acknowledged So that you haue small cause to conceiue you can take Bernard tardie in a tale in such sort as you doe as if his age were too young or his wits too weake to encounter your worth He sayth indeede to die was a great infirmitie but so to die as Christ did was a great or an infinite power Where shewing your selfe to be sharpe sighted in toyes and heauie headed in trueth you aske which is this infinite power Christs tasting the vineger or his saying it is finished or his bowing the head or his giuing vp the ghost Had you not tasted so much the vineger of your owne conceits that you can scant lift vp your head to looke on any thing but lees you might easily haue seene what Bernard sayth and that he sayth no more then the best learned Fathers in Christes Church said before him Solus potestatem habuit ponendi animam suam nemo â—…am abstulit ab eo incâ—…to capite factus obediens vsque admortem tradidit spiritum Quis tam facile quando vult dormit magna quidem infirmit as mori sed planè sic mori virtus immensa Solus potestatem habuit ponendi qui solus facultatem aeqne habuit liberam resumendi imperium habens vitae mort is Christ alone had power to lay downe his soule none tooke it from him Bowing his head being obedient vnto death he gaue vp the ghost Who can so easily sleepe when he will To dic was a great infirmitie but so to die was plainely an exceeding power Hâ—…e onely had power to lay downe his soule who onely had like free power to take it againe hauing the rule of life and death Long before Bernard S. Austen sayd as much whose words you say being granted necessarily conclude nothing for my purpose They shew nothing but Christs voluntarie dying and that at his death he shâ—…ed great power which you denie not Were it infirmitie in you that you could not vnderstand S. Austens words it were the lesse to be misliked but being an insolent concâ—… of your selfe that will quarrell with Scriptures and Fathers least you should be conuinced of a manifest errour this hath neither trueth nor touch of any Religion That Christ died VOLVNTARIE and shewed GREAT POVVER AT HIS DEATH S. Austen you grant auoucheth and you because you can wind those wordes at your will doâ—… not denie them but were you as carefull to take Saint Austens words in their
right sense as you be readie for a shewe to admit them this matter were ended S. Austen speaketh indeede of Christs voluntarie and powerfull dying but he doth not meane as you doe that Christ was onely willing to die as religious and godly men are which desire to depart this life but that he died quia voluit quando voluit quomodo voluit because he would when he would as hee would And giuing the reason of his speech out of the Scripture though you proudly and falsely say he hath no strength of reason by the Scripture he learnedly and truely pursueth it in this sort Where the spirit is farre better then the bodie and it is the death of the spirit to be forsaken of God as it is the death of the bodie to be forsaken of the spirit and this is the punishment in the death of the bodie that the spirit because it willingly forsooke God shall vnwillingly leaue the bodie neither can the spirit leaue the bodie when it will vnlesse it offer some violent death to the bodie the Soule or Spirit of Christ the mediatour did plainely prooue that he came to the death of his flesh by no punishment of sinne in that he forsooke not his flesh by any meanes against his wil but BECAVSE HE VVOVLD VVHEN Hâ—… VVOVLD AND AS HE VVOVLD Therefore he said I haue power to lay downe my soule and haue power to take it againe None taketh it from me but I lay it downe of my selfe And this those that were present GREATLY MARVAILED AT as the Gospell obserueth when after that loud voyce he presently gaue vp the ghost For they that were fastned to the tree were tormented with a long death Wherefore the two theeues had their legs broken that they might die But Christ was WONDRED AT because he was found dead which thing we read Pilate marueiled at when Christs bodie was asked of him to be buried There is more sound Diuinitie in this one Chapter of S. Austens then in both your Pamphlets though you pretend S. Austens wordes conclude nothing nor against you nor for me Where you may learne for it is fitter for you to be a scholler then a writer till you haue learned to leaue your wilfull humours and to giue â—…are vnto the sage and wise Fathers that were pillars of Christes Church many hundred yeeres before you first that for the punishment of sinne the death of the body was inflicted on all mankinde in which the soule should depart from her bodie against her will and not when she would nor as she would Secondly that the manner of Christs death was cleane contrary to ours he gaue vp his spirit of his owne accord and power when he would and as he would Thirdly his giuing vp the ghost so presently vpon his loude prayer was wondered at by the standers by and by Pilate himselfe when he heard of it Whether this conclude my purpose I leaue to the iudgement of the discreete Reader your no as it lightly commeth without cause so with me it goeth as lightly without regard But Austens words which I first quoted prooue not so much You take vpon you to refute first and last why skip you then that which is cited in the midst Grant Austens words to be true as indeede they are most true which are alleaged in the first place and my purpose is fully concluded Theâ—… prooue that no man can SO SLEEPE when he will as Christ died when he would that no man can so put off his vesture when he will as Christ put off his flesh when he would that no man can so leaue the place where he standeth at his will as Christ left his life when he would And if so great power appeared in him dying with what power shall we thinke he will come to iudge Where voluntary dying in Christ doth not onely import that he was content and willing to die as Paul was when he desired to be dissolued but that he left this life by separating his soule from his bodie when he would hauing at that present when he parted his soule from his bodie perfect memoriâ—… sense and speech and breathing out his soule of his owne accord with more facilitie and celeritie then we can lay off our garments or change the place in which we stand And from this admirable power by which he layd downe his soule and tooke it againe at his plâ—…asure Austen draweth a comparison to the exceeding greatneâ—… of that power with which he shall come to iudge the world With Austen ioyne all the Fathers of Christs Church that eaer spake of this matter and the best Diuines of latter ages confesse the same Athanasius 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 To haue power to lay downe his soule when he would and to take it againe this is not the propertie of men but it is the power of the Sonne of God For man dieth not by his owne power but by necessitiâ—… of nature and that against his will but Christ being God â—…ad it in his own power to separate himselfe from his bodie and to resume the same againe when he would Origen An non Dominus singulare quiddam prae omnibus qui in corpus aduenerint de seipso dicit doth not the Lord affirme a thing that was peculiar or singular to him aboue all that euer were in the flesh when he saith None taketh my soule from me but I lay it downe of my selfe and haue power to lay it downe and power to take it againe Let vs consider what he meaneth who left his bodie and departed from it without any way leading to death This neither Moses nor any of the Patriarkes Prophets or Apostles did say besides Iesus For if Christ had died as the theeues did that were crucified with him we could not haue said that he layd downe his soule of himselfe but after the maner of such as die But now Iesus crying with a strong voyce gaue vp the ghost and as a King left his bodie His power greatly appeared in this that at his owne free power and will leauing his bodie he died Gregorie Nyssene Memento Dominici dicti quid de seipso pronunciet is a quo pendet rerum omnium vis potentia quomodo ex plena summáque potestate ac non ex naturae necessitate animam à corpore seiungit Remember the Lords words what he pronounceth of himselfe of whom dependeth all power how with full and soueraigne power and not by necessitie of nature he seuered his soule from his bodie as he sayd None taketh my soule from me but I lay it downe of my selfe I haue power to lay it downe and power to take it againe Gregorie Nazianzene maketh the mother of Christ thus to speake vnto him after his death Comming I heard thy voice vnto thy father 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and thou suddenly departedst this life as leauing it willingly Ierome With a faint voice or rather
speechlesse we die that are of the earth but he which came from heauen breathed out his soule with a loud voice We must say it was a shew of his diuine power to lay downe his soule when he would and to take it againe Yea the Centurio hearing him say to hiâ—… Father Into thine hands I commend my spirit statim sponte spiritum dimisisse and straightway of his own accord to send forth his spirit mooued with the GREATNES of this WOONDER said Truly this was the Sonne of God Chrysostome vpon these words of Matthew Iesus crying with a loud voice gaue vp the ghost sayth Idcirco magna voce clamauit vt ostendat haec sua potestate fieri Therefore Christ cried with a loud voice that he might shew this to be done by his owne power Marke sayth Pilate maruâ—…lled if he were alreadie dead And the Centurion also THERâ—…FORE CHIEFLY beleeued because he saw Christ die of his owne accord and power Victor of Antioch vpon the like words of Marke sayth By so doing the Lord Iesus doth plainly declare that he had his whole life and death in his owne free power Wherefore Marke writeth that Pilate not without admiration asked if Christ were yet dead addidit item ea potissimum de causa Centurionem credidisse he added likewise that the Centurion chiefly for that reason beleeued because he saw Christ giue vp the ghost with a loud crie and signification of great power Leo noting that Christ died not for lacke of helpe but of determinatâ—… purpose sayth Quae illic vitae intercessio sentienda est vbi anima potestate est emissa potestate reuocata What intreatie for life shall we thinke there was where the soule was both sent out with power and recalled with power Fulgentius Cum ergo homo Christus tantam accepâ—…rit potestatem vt cum vellet animam poneret cum vellet denuò resumeret quantam potuit habere Christi diuinitas potestatem Ideo autem ille homo potestatem animae habuit quia cum diuina potestas in vnitatem personae suscepit Where then the man Christ receiued so much power that he might lay downe his soule when he would and take it againe when he would how great power might the Godhead of Christ haue and therefore the manhood of Christ had power to lay downe his soule because the diuine power admitted him into the vinitie of person Sedulius Animam protinus suam sancto de corpore volens ipse deposâ—…it Christ himselfe forthwith vpon his prayer willingly layd off his sacred soule from his bodie Nonnius in his Paraphrase vpon S. Iohns Gospell expresseth the saying of Christ None taketh my soule from me in these words No birth-law taketh my soule from me no incroching time that tameth all things nor Necessitie which is vnchangeable counsell 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 but ruler of my selfe I of mine owne accord yeeld vp my willing soule Beda vpon that place of Matthew And Iesus crying with a loud voice sent out or gaue vp his spirit writeth thus Quod autem dicit emisit spiritum ostendit diuinae potestatis esse emittere spiritum vt ipse quoque dixerat nemo potest tollere animam in that the Euangelist saith Christ sent out his soule or spirit he sheweth it is a point of Diuine power to send out the soule as Christ himselfe sayd None can take my soule from me Nullus enim habet potestatem emittendi spiritum nisi qui animarum conditor est For none hath power to send out the soule but he that is Creator of soules Which Bede buildeth vpon the words of S. Matthew who saith that Christ crying with a loud voice 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 dismissed or sent his soule from him Theophylact Iesus crieth with a loud voice that we should know it was true which he sayd I haue power to lay downe my soule for not constrained but of his own accord he dismissed his soule And the Centurion seeing that he breathed out his soule so like a Commander of death WONDERED and confessed him 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for he died not like other men but as the Master of death Lyra vpon these words of Matthew Iesus againe crying with a loude voice sent forth his soule Whereby it appeareth that voice was not naturall but MIRACVLOVS because a man afflicted with great and long torment and through such affliction neere to death could not so cry by any strength of nature The latter writers concurre with the older in this obseruation Erasmus in his Paraphrase vpon Saint Luke Iesus when with a mighty cry he had said Father into thy hands I commend my spirit breathed out his soule to make it manifest to all that he did not faint as others doe the strengh of the body by little and little decaying but straightway vpon a strong cry and words distinctly pronounced laid downe his life as of his owne accord And the Centurion who stood ouerright as a Minister and witnesse of his death and had seene many dye with punishment when he saw Iesus besides the manner of other men after a strong cry presently to breath out his soule said truely this man was the Sonne of God Musculus That Christ sent foorth hiâ—… soule with aloude voice is a proofe of greater power then may be found in a man dying Whereby he shewed that he layed of his soule of his owne accord answerable to that I haue power to lay downe my soule and to take it againe To which end Iohn saith that bowing his head he gaue vp the Ghost Others first dye and then their heads fall but he first layeth downe his head and then of his owne accord deliuereth his soule vp to his Father Gualter But let vs see the manner of Christs death who as Iohn writeth with bowing downe his head yelded his Spirit Luke saith he cryed with a loude voice Father into thy hands I commend my Spirite Concurrunt hâ—…c non obscura Diuinitatis argumenta Here find we manifest arguments of his Diuinitie which the Centurion and others obserued as some of the Euangelists witnesse First this cry and distinct pronouncing of his last words sheweth a power and vertue MORE THEN HVMANE For we know that men dying so faint that the most of them cannot speake be it neuer so softly Againe he dyeth when he will himselfe yea and layeth of his soule with authoritie to shew himselfe Lord of life and death which is an euident proofe of his Diuine power It is profitable for vs diligently to marke the Diuine power of Christ which shewed it selfe so plainly in his death Marlorat vpon the words of Mathew and Iesus crying againe with a loud voyce sent foorth his spirit saith Declarat hic Christus maiestatem suam Christ declareth here his Maiestie that he layeth downe his soule not when men constraine him but when he himselfe will
Whereupon Pilat maruailed that Christ was so soone dead And the Lord himselfe said None taketh my soule from me but I lay it downe of my selfe I haue power to lay it downe and power to take it againe To which it pertaineth that is written he bowing downe his head gaue vp his spirit for other men first dye and then their heads hang but Christ first laid downe his head and then voluntarily rendered his soule to his Father Many moe might be brought of all ages and places confessing the same but if these suffice not what may be enough I doe not know To decline the Scriptures and Fathers that make against him the Discourser hath deuised two shifts very like the rest of of his tenents that is void of all truth and iudgement I deny not saith he but Christ might shew some strange vnusuall thing apparantly to the beholders in vttering his last voice which might very much mooue the beholders and hâ—…arers Adde hereunto that experience sheweth as Phisitians say how some diseases in the body bring death presently after most strong and violent crying Namely in some excessiue torments as of the stone Things reported and expressed in the Scriptures touching the strange and wonderfull manner of Christs death you deny and dreame of things there no way mentioned to coulour your matter and cosin your Reader That Christ did render his soule into his Fathers hands when as yet neither speech sense memory nor motion began to faile is diligently obserued by the Euangelists and was greatly marueyled at by the Centurion which saw the manner of his death As also that he breathed out his soule of his owne accord when he had spoken those words without any former or other degrees or pangs of death appearing in him is likewise witnessed by the Scriptures and constantly auouched by all the Fathers Saint Luke saith and speaking these words he breat hed out his soule Saint Mathew and crying with a loud voice he dismissed his spirit Saint Marke and sending a strong voice from him he blew out his Soule This did he of his owne accord and power None taking his soule from him as in death they doe ours but declaring himselfe by laying of his soule when he would and as he would to be Lord and master of life and death This is fit for all Christians to confesse least they dishonor the death of Christ by depriuing his person of that power and glory which he openly shewed in the eyes eares of all his persecutors This you shift of and instced thereof imagine some strange and VNVSVALI accident in the manner of Christs death which neither the Scriptures report nor you can expresse wherein you shew your selfe forward to inuent what is not written and backward to beleeue what is written which is the trade of such men as meane to make a shipwracke of their faith That a man may dye crying as Christ did you haue found at length if not from Diuines at least from Phisitians for I perccaue you haue sought all sorts of helps both farre and neere to vphold your fansies Pâ—…rchaunce Phisitians may tell you when a painefull disease possesseth the parts which are no fountaines of life or sense a man may cry till sense and strength begin to faile and so hasten his death by the violent spending of his spirits but that a man may by any course of nature retaine perfect memorie sense motion and speach to the very act of breathing out his soule I assure my selfe no wise Phisitian will affirme And if any more humorous then learned will wade so farre without his Art he must vnderstand that his word may not ouersway the Rules of Diuinitie and Principles of nature For what are the powers and faculties whereby the soule is conioyned with the body but life sense and motion so long then as they last the soule by nature neither doth nor can forsake the body But when sense and motion first outward and then inward are oppressed and ouerwhelmed then life also perisheth and the soule may no longer abide in her body the vnion by which she was fastened vnto it being wholy dissolued Wherefore death which is the priuation of life by Gods ordinance for the punishment of sinne by degrees surpriseth and in the end quencheth all sense and motion and so forceth the soule to forsake her seate which by Gods appointment is violently parted from hir body whether she will or no but neuer till the effects oflife which are sense and motion be first decayed and abolished A sowne is the suddainest ouerwhelming of the powers of life which any natural experience doth teach vs and yet therewith though outward sense and motion doe faile at an instant and the inward be very weake and almost insensible the soule doth not presently depart but stayeth a time till all sense and motion without and within except the partie be recouered be vtterly extinguished Wherefore in all men by necessitie of nature the powers and parts of life decav in some sooner in some later before they die and therefore in Christ on the Crosse it was MIRACVLOVS and aboue nature that hauing full perfect outward and inward sense speech and motion he did in a moment when he would and as he would render his soule into the hands of his Father without any farder decayes or other degrees of death precedent then the very act of breathing out his soule which left his body presently and perfectly dead Thou hast gentle Reader the causes and prooses that mooued me to obserue the manâ—…r of Christes death to bee different from ours which whether they be consonant to the Scriptures and rightly conceiued by those learned and ancient Fathers which I haue named vnto thee I leaue to thy discrecte iudgement assuring thee there is nothing to hinder the maine consent of so many old and new writers in a matter of so great consequence but onely the headdinesse of this discourser who vpon a bare pretence of one peece of Scripture not well vnderstood and worse applied thinketh he may worke wonders and conclude all these graue and sound Expositours to be so ignorant of the sense of that place and so vnable to reach to the depth of those words Christ was LIKE VS IN ALL things that with one accord they would affirme a sine fable a Paradoxe in Nature and contrarie to Scripture Howbeit it is no newes with this man to defend that Christ was distempered ouerwhelmed and all confounded both in all the powers of his soule and senses of his body He boldly auoucheth it was so with Christ before his death in the Garden and on the Crosse and therefore hee presumeth it might much more befall him at his death But let him keepe these secrets to himselfe I doubt not Christian Reader but thou wilt be well aduised before thou put the Sauiour of the world and the Sonne of God out of his wits or senses to make way for
by an Angell wherein his sweat ran from him lâ—…ke drops of blood is not yet agreed on nor any way confirmed by you But note any of these sixe causes which I conceiued might induce our Sauiour to this sorrow or sweat and see whether they haue not direct reference to his passion and a full coherence ech with other Howbeit you reserâ—…e that for a fitter place and so do I. Why then doe I seeme to refuse them as none of mine by saying I shewed not mine owne opinion but the iudgements of the Fathers Nay why seeme you so void of all vnderstanding that you apprehend not so much as vsuall English MY doctrine is not MINE sayth our Sauiour but his that sent me will you hence conclude a manifest contradiction in Christ because he sayth mine is not mine but his that sent me In possessions that is mine which is wholly mine and no mans els and in opinions that is properly mine whereof I am the first inuenter and author howbeit by a larger extension of the word that is mine also wherein I communicate with others though it be not properly or only mine Out of this distinction of proper common knowen to the very children in Grammar schooles our Sauiour sayth most truly My doctrine that is the doctrine which I preach and in that respect is mine is not mine is not only mine nor of my deuising but his that sent me This were enough to warrant my words and yet my speech is somewhat plainer for I added not MINE OVVNE opinion but the iudgements of the Fathers Now mine owne is that which is properly mine and wherein no man partaketh with me and although you might stumble at Mine yet MINE OVVNE would put you out of doubt So that here as elswhere you bewray the sharpnesse of your quarrelling humor but if neither you nor your friends could spie any greater faults than these absurd and ignorant cauils the Reader will scant trust you hereafter when you talke of my contrarieties and inconstancies But how doth this excuse the foulenesse of your mouth in reiecting the Fathers iudgements with irreuerent and disdainfull termes which was the thing I then reproued in you If the opinions were onely theirs and not mine would you the rather reuile them as fond and absurd because they were wholly theirs and no way mine The Fathers you say I call not so Such I meant and tooke for absurd gatherers as commonly â—…le regard the sound doctrine of the Fathers but onely admire their faults whome here I noted by the name of our Contraries Are you so set on shifting and shufling that you can not forbeare seuen lines but you must needs contradict your selfe and that so grosly that euery Carter may controle you In the seuenteenth line of your three and thirtieth page you tell me I am in the best opinion when I denie these to be mine opinions and being charged that insolently you called those iudgements of the Fathers fond and absurd you answer that these your words are purposely meant of those in these dayes that delight to vaunt of the Fathers and chiefly in their errors Your vnciuill and vnseemely liueries of fond and absurd opinions and senses must needs belong either to the Fathers that vttered them or to me that cited them To catch me in a kind of contradiction as you thought your selfe acquit me from holding them For I denie them you say and râ—…fuse them as none of mine On whom then light your fond and absurd speeches but on the Fathers that first conceiued and first deliuered those opinions and senses which you so much dâ—…ke and reproch You meant it not of the Fathers You flutter in vaine to free your selfe from that lime-twig against your plaine speech no man will admit your secret meaning cleane contrary to your words You say indeed I know our contraries do fansie other senses of this Text My God my God why hast thou forsaken me but the senses of that text alledged out of the Fathers word for word the places of the Authors named when you come after your proud and peremptorie maner to examine and censure you say to that which was produced out of Ierome and Chrysostome which sense is most absurd and this is too fond to be spoken To the sense noted out of Athanasius Austen and Leo your answer is this is no lesse absurd than the former there is no cause nor likelihood in the world for it So when the testimonies of Ambrose Austen Ierom and Bede were produced that the reiection of the Iewes might be some cause of Christes sorrow in the Garden you grosly mistake their words as if they had expounded Christes complaint on the crosse and pertly reioyne this is more fond and absurd than the other there is no sense nor reason in it How thinke you Sir speake you of the men or of the matter when you say this sense is most absurd this is too fond to be spoken Could you wrench your words from the matter to the reporter which you can not what gaine you by that If to alledge these opinions of Fathers be so fond and absurd as you say though I refuse them as you aâ—…ch I did what was it in the Fathers themselues to profesâ—…e and publish those most fond and absurd senses as you call them to all ages and Churches but meere and inexcusable madnesse But tie your tongue shorter lest men thinke you mad thus to raue at eueriething be it neuer so learned or aduised that rangeth not with your erroneous fansie They haue spoken wisely and grauely and your kicking and winâ—…ing at their religious and sober expositions with such scornfull phrases may discouer your coltish conceits it can neuer decreaâ—…e or craze their credits I cast a needlesse rebuke vpon you for confounding the causes of the agonie and the complaint together Though all your exceptions to the Fathers expositions of that text My God my God why hast thou forsaken me be most friuolous and foolish yet none is more babish than when you mistake the reiection of the Iewes which I shewed out of Ambrose Ierom Austen and Bede might be some cause of Christes sorrow after his last supper to be the meaning of his complaint on the Crosse and would needs in a flaunt affirme that ME in those words of Christ why hast thou forsaken me doth not signifie my whole Nation which of my certaine knowledge neuer came into my head nor euer out of my mouth For I tooke care to wade no further in expounding them than the Scriptures and Fathers went before me and howsoeuer his sorrow for them might happily not cease before his death yet there was no cause why hauing formerly prayed his Father to forgiue them that knew not what they did he should now call the rest of the perfidious and obstinate Iewes by the name of himselfe If you stand to vphold this ouersight you shew
for the sinnes of the world But you after your slight and slippery manner though euen here you deny it very stifly when you be pressed with reasons or authorities conuey your selfe presently to your ambiguous and deceitfull termes of meere bodily sufferings and the proper sufferings of the soule and from thence you make your aduantage But what are meere bodily sufferings such as haue no communion neither with the sense nor grace of the soule can a liuing body die a shamefull and cruell death as Christ did and the soule neither like or mislike it nor so much as feele it This you inferre vpon the word onely when I conclude that Christ died a bodily death onely If the sacrifice say you As it is onely bodily and bloudy doe wholy purge sinne ‖ it followeth that no action or passion of the soule neither by Sympathie nor any other I say none at all As being in the soule was regarded as propitiatorie and meritorious Graunt first your owne termes to be true which are neither my words nor my meaning that Christs MEERE bodily sufferings without any proper sufferings of the soule were the whole Ransom for sinne how exclude you the sense affections and actions of Christs soule not to be meritorious Had Christ any sufferings in his body which his soule felt not and when his soule felt them did he not patiently obediently and willingly endure them for our sakes Or was not the patience obedience and loue of Christ meritorious How then will it follow that if Christs sufferings were MEERE BODILY without any proper sufferings of the soule no affection nor action of Christs soule was meritorious But you adde â—…f the Sacrifice As it is onely bodily bloudy and deadly doth wholy purge sinne thâ—…n no action nor passion of the soule was propitiatorie and meritorious If you meane that Christs body as it was onely dead for that is your word did without soule or life wholy purge sinne then indeed your consequent is good that neither action nor passion of the soule could be propitiatorie because the soule was not present when the body was dead But who maketh that blockish Antecedent besides your selfe Or who euer excluded Christs innocence obedience patience charitie and digniâ—…e from his bodily and bloody sacrifice before you will you seuer the manner of offering from the thing offered and call it a perfect and propitiatorie sacrifice As it was only bodily and bloudy it had no communion with any action or passion of Christs soule As being in the soule Why entangle you the Reader with an As and an As of your owne adding which no where are found in my words What sense can any wise man pike out of this The sacrifice As it is only bodily excludeth all actions and passions of the soule As being in the soule Is it so strange a kind of speech to say that Christ died only a bodily death which so many learned and auncient Fathers haue so frequently vâ—…ed before me that you should bring in your As and your As thus to kicke at it In death as in death if thereby you meane the priuation and want of soule and life there is neither paine nor sense and in the body As in the body if you take the body for a dead corps there is no absolute necessitie of a soule otherwise no body could be dead What then Had therefore Christs body no soule nor his death no paine when he suffered for our sinnes Or are you of late so souced in Sophistrie that when you heare of a body you will inferre there is neither action nor paâ—…sion of the soule in that body as in a body or whâ—…n you are told of a man tormented to death you will assure vs that in his death as death he had neither paine nor sense All men besides you conceaue in the sufferings of the body the soule as the soule must haue the sense and feeling thereof and is thereby vrged by Gods ordinance to seeke for the cause and ease thereof In their affliction saith God by his Prophet they will seeke me And Dauid sill their faces with shame that the may seeke thy name And likewise by the suffering of death they vnderstand the paine and sting of death approching and lastly separating the soule from the body And therefore Christs sacrifice for sinne though it were only bodily because no part of Christ died but only the body yet the soule endured the paine and discerned the cause thereof And though it were deadly because it ended in death and was finished by death yet the actions and affections of Christs soule as well from her selfe as from his body at the time of his passion impressed or stirred either by the cause smart author or manner of his sufferings were meritorious and made way for the satisfaction of sinne which was not accomplished but by that death of Christs body that God had determined Let therefore the Reader iudge how well you impugne my conclusion that Christ died for our sinnes the death of the body only and not the death of the soule nor of the damned and how vainly you vouch Christs death and sacrifice as they were bodily had neither paines nor patience obedience nor charitie nor any other action or passion of his soule in them Else-where I see in you manifest contrarietie hereunto for sundry times you teach that Christ did suffer peculiarly and seuerally some proper punishments which I hope were propitiatorie and meritorious in his soule besides his bodily suffering yea that this was a part of his crosse and an effect of God wrath on his soule as well as the suffering in his body I pray thee Christian Reader obserue that this Discourser plainly and fully here confesâ—…eth that I SVNDRY times teach that Christ BESIDES his bodely sufferings did suffer peculiarly and seuerally some PROPER punishments in his soule and that this was a part of his Crosse as well as the sufferings of his bodie Now iudge whether it be not a meere shift for him to beare thee in hand that the question betwixt vs is whether Christs meere bodily sufferings without anie proper sufferings of the soule be all that Christ suffered for our sinnes and the whole ransom for sinne or whether that be or can be my meaning as he outfaced thee the next Page before the contrary whereof I sundry times teach as he now confesseth But I crosse my selfe he thinketh write I know not what Sir Trifler if I contradict my selfe shew me my words my writing is extant If you will be priuie to my meaning against my words you are a strange if not a sturdie Prophet But indeede I haue neither meaning nor words sounding that way I auouch that Christ for our sinnes suffered the death of the body only and not of the soule or no death but only the death of the body Vpon these words the death of the bodie onlie if it may be inferred by
any reason or learning ergo Christs dead bodie depriued of soule and sense was the whole Ransom for our sinnes for that he meaneth by Christs death or ergo no action nor passion of Christs soule before or on his crosse was meritorious If I say these conclusions doe necessarily follow out of those words or out of the meaning of them then I must confesâ—…e I am fowly ouershot in my speach But if these be most ignorant and absurd collections from my words and from theirs that vsed that speâ—…ch before me then mayest thou see Christian Reader what meaning this man hath throughout this booke purposely to peruert and misconster all that I say to make thee beleeue I broch some strange and wonderous Doctrine But shifts lâ—… hid but a while the shame in the end will be his How then can that which I sundrie times teach of Christs sufferings in his soule be true if our whole ranâ—…om and propitiation be bodily bloudy and deadly only which is the point â—…here stand on What contradiction finde you in my words that Christ might haue and had sufferings in his soule as feare sorrow and affliction of minde and yet died no death but only a bodilie Only a bodily death doth not exclude all paines which are not bodily but all deaths saue the death of the bodie Wherefore my conclusion is whâ—…re it was That the death which the Mediator must suffer for sinne by the Apostles doctrine must onely be bodily and bloodie and therefore by no meanes the death of the soule or of the damned Yet this â—…as not our whole râ—…some you say nor the whole sacrifice for sinne the sufferings of his soule must be added vnto it When I speake of Christes death I vnderstand that maner and order of his death which the Euangelists describe for so the Scriptures meane when they speake of Christes death and from that death I doe not seuer those sufferings of his soule which the Scripturâ—…s mention because the sharpnesse of that death which his body was to suffer draue him to the deepe consideration of the cause why of the Iudge from whom and the captiue for whom he suffered Christ otherwise had not suffered death as a Redeemer if he had been ignorant of any of these or compelled by force to endure the furie of the Iewes he had power enough to stay their rage decline their bloudie hands yea to auert or decrease the paines as he thought good but because he was to offer himselfe as a willing sacrifice to suffer death to saue vs from the wrath of his Father he layed aside his owne power and submitted himselfe wholly to be disposed at his Fathers will which the Scriptures call his obedience vnto death When therefore he foresaw and felt how sharpe and painfull that death would be and was which he must and did suffer for our sinnes was it possible he should not fully cast the eyes of his â—…inde vpon the horror of our sinnes which did so sting him vpon the fiercenesse of Gods wrath which did so pursue him though he were his innocent and only sonne and vpon the terrible vengeance that rested for vs if he should mislike or refâ—…se to beare the burden of our offences If any man learned thinke it possible for Christ to suffer the one and not in spirit most cleerely to see the other I am content he shall seâ—…er the sufferings of Christs soule from the griefe and anguish of his bodily death but if it be more than absurd so to conceiue then finde we that the sight and sense of Christes extreame torments in bodie caused and vrged his soule thorowly to beholde these things with feare and sorrow which in themselues were most fearefull and could not châ—… but affect Christes soule deeply and diuersly As for the whole ransome of our sinne we shall haue occasion in the next reason more largely to treate of But you haue reasons you say to confirme your maine matter among manie these two the first the Iewish sacrifices shadowing and foreshewing the second the sacraments of Christians testifying and confirming that the true sacrifice for sinne was bodily and bloudy Still what trifling is this doth any in the world denie that the true sacrifice for sinne was the bodie bloud and death of the Redeemer Wherefore the proposition must be as I did set it in your behalfe the Iewish sacrifices were shadowes or figures and our sacraments were signes of our whole and absolute redemption by Christ I say of the whole and entire propitiatorie sacrifice or els you shrinke and leaue the question When I lacke one to set propositions in my behalfe I will send to you for helpe till then spare your paines except you might reape more thanks But you must learne to get you plainer termes or at least more plainly to expound them if you will needs be a setter of propositions for what is the WHOLE sacriâ—…ice propitiatorie and what is our WHOLE redemption By the whole sacrifice meane you the whole person of Christ that gaue himselfe for vs or intend you the whole action whereby he sanctified submitted and presented himselfe as a sacrifice of a sweet smell vnto God or by the whole vnderstand you all that in Christ was deuoted and deliuered vnto death for the satisfaction of Gods iustice And so our whole redemption doe you referre it only to remission of sinnes as the Apostle doth when he sayth We haue redemption through Christes bloud euen the forgiuenesse of sinnes or also to deliuerance from the dominion and infection of sinne and to the abolishing of all corruption in soule and bodie which is our whole and absolute redemption When the powers of heauen shall be shaken and the Sonne of man come in a cloud with power and great glorie then lift vp your heads sayth Christ for your redemption draweth neere You are sealed by the holy Spirit vnto the day of redemption sayeth Paul And Dauid God shall redeeme their soules from deceit and violence that is he shall deliuer their soulâ—…s The Saints as the Apoâ—…e speaketh were racked and would admit no redemption to obtaine a better resurrection where by redemption he meaneth deliuerance As Zacharias sayd God hath visited and sent redemption to his people that is saluation or deliuerance from our enemies and from the hands of all that hate vs to serue him in holinesse and righteousnesse all the dayes of our life So that our whole and absolute redemption compriseth all the degrees and steps of our saluation as iustification sanctification and glorification and these though they were merited and obtained for vs by Christes obedience vnto dâ—…ath yet are they performed and accomplished by diuers other meanes therewith concurring and thereon depending as by the grace of his spirit the working of his power and glory of his comming And therefore the words which you haue set in my behalfe are like their authour that is they are
the hole that you would faine hide your selfe in To that intent which I set downe my reasons drawen from the Iewish sacrifices and Christians sacraments did and doe still stand effectuall For the olde sacrifices must figure and the new Sacraments must seale whatsoeuer death in Christ was the full and perfect ransome of our sinnes But they foreshew and confirme the bodily death of Christ onely they neither shew not signifie the death of the soule nor the death of the damned Therefore the bodily death of Christ onely is the full and perfect ransome of our sinnes the death of the soule and the death of the damned as they serued nothing to our Redemption so were they not suffered in the soule of Christ. Two cauils you offer against the first part of this reason touching the sacrifices of the fathers before and vnder the law One that they figured not the whole sacrifice as neither Christes Deitie his soule nor his resurrection the next that all the sacrifices of the Iewes did not signifie his bodily death because the Scape goate which was a sinne offering was not slaine Of trifling you talke much this is more then trifling it is plaine shifting Christes deitie could be no part of that sacrifice which suffered for sinne the diuine Maiestie can not suffer either paine or sorrow To what ende then come you in with Christes Godhead when you talke of his suffering for sinne His soule you say was not figured by those sacrifices The suffering death in his soule was indeed no way figured by them but that the mediatour should haue an humane soule to bee separated from his body by death before hee could make purgation of our sinnes that was more then figured by those sacrifices For since not the blood of beasts but of man and euen of the Sonne of God made man was by Gods promise to be shed for our sinnes It is euident that from life to death he could not come but by seuering his soule from his body And consequently he must haue a soule being a man which must be powred out vnto death before he could die euen as the powers of life in bloody sacrifices were parted from their flesh before they could be offered as sacrifices vnto God But I charge you vntruely when I say you expound your whole and absolute Redemption to be of all the fruites and causes of our Redemption you haue no such word nor meaning as fruites Your words are our whole and absolute Redemption and those I say containe the whole course of our saluation euen vnto the last step which is our glorification as I haue formerly prooued by Christes owne speech Againe if the resurrection of Christ which is your owne instance bee a part of that propitiatorie sacrifice because it was a necessarie consequent then all the benefites that Christ obtained for vs or bestowed on vs must be comprised in that his oblation for sinne For they are all necessarie consequents and effects of our Redemption and depend on these two branches his death to free vs from sinne and his resurrection to raise vs into a new and heauenly life now for euer He was deliuered to death for our sinnes and rose againe for our iustification From these two heads the Scriptures deriue not onely forgiuenes of sinnes but newnesse of life on earth and happinesse of life in heauen Yet you did not call them fruits Effects you called them and what is a ioyfull effect such as was Christs resurrection but a fruit and that as well in Christ as in vs When the Prophet saith of Christ he shall see the trauaile of his soule and be satisfied what meaneth he but the fruits and effects of Christs labour when for his obedience to death God highly exalted him and gaue him a name aboue euery name that euery knee should bow vnto him what is this but a fruite and reward of his humiliation first in his owne person then proportionably in all that be his Many of the Iewes sacrifices yea most of them did represent and signifie Christs bodily sufferings onely yet not all Therefore you may well deny mine assumption as you did before and affirme that certaine Iewish Sacrifices set forth the sufferings euen of the soule of Christ and not of his body only Did I any where say that all the Iewish sacrifices were bloudy or that all of them did represent Christs death and blood shedding Could I be ignorant that the Iewes had oblations made onely by fier as of flower wine and incense and also offerings of the first fruits and other things dedicated or presented to the Lord for the vse of his tabernacle and Temple Doth not the Apostle say Euery high Priest is ordayned for men to offer GIFTES and SACRIFICES for sinne Where gifts shew that things without life were offered as well as liuing beasts and birds which were slaine As then there was no cause nor neede I should so I neuer vsed the word ALL in that case vnlesse I added liuing or BLOODY Sacrifices For they by their life lost and blood shed figured the death of Christ Iesus But this ALL is your adding to my wordes that you may take occasion to pike some quarrell at them But you may well deny my assumption that no sacrifices of the Iewes did figure the sufferings of Christs soule I assumed no such thing neither did I meddle with the sufferings of Christs soule vnlesse they were the death of the soule or the paines of hell which the Scripture calleth the second death and I the death of the damned because none besides the damned die that second death but you plainly giue me the slip and conuey your selfe from speaking of the death of the soule or of the death of the damned which are the things in Question to the sufferings of the soule in generall of which I make no Question And though your meaning be vnder the sufferings of the soule to comprise the tormenting of Christs soule by the immediate hand of God with the selfe same paines which the damned do feele in hell Yet such is your cariage that euery where you suppresse your maine intent and make a faire shew with the sufferings of Christs soule as if you ment no more but that Christs soule must needs haue some sufferings proper to it selfe which you confesse I sundry times teach and yet you make your Reader beleeue I euer impugne You shall doe well to awake out of this slumber and call to minde that there are no sufferings of Christs soule now in question but the DEATH of the SOVLE or of the DAMNED which you dare not openly auouch and therefore you plaster them ouer with smoother termes of the sufferings of the soule to hide your secret mysteries till you meete with itching eares that will listen more to fansies then to faith Another peece of skill you shew in this place to ease your selfe of all proofe and thinke it enough if
respect as they are bodily things represent the soule of Christ or any matter pertaining to it In that respect as they are bodily things without any sacred action or passion they figure neither bodie nor soule of Christ nor are indeed any figures at all But you speake of sacrifices of beasts which can not beare that name in the Scriptures without some sacred action and passion ordeined by God to praefigure the sacrifice of his Sonne And where euery thing which was appointed of God to foreshew the comming and dying of his Sonne was a figure of him not in respect of any bodily matter or forme for so all things of that kinde should naturally haue beene figures of Christ and not by gods appointment which is most absurd and false but in regard of some holie rare or beneficiall action passion or propertie authorized by God to represent the power and vertue of Christ appearing in our flesh you like a deepe Diuine seuer from those sacrifices all sacred actions and passions ordained by God to make them both sacrifices and figures and then tell vs that in respect of their earthly and bodily substance they were no figures of Christes soule When you sayd Sacrifices you included those sacred actions and passions which made them sacrifices and figures of Christes sacrifice and therefore to exclude them againe with an idle respect is a silly and emptie refuge If vnder bodily things you comprise externall and sensible actions and passions then is it euident that by sensible signes in those Sacrifices God did alwayes and altogether declare the ioynt sufferings of Christ for the sinnes of the world but not the paines of hell nor the death of the soule from which you alwayes and altogether slide vnder pretence of my grosse vttering it though I vtter it in the selfe-same words and parts which the Scripture doth But how considerate are you when you vouch that the Scape-goat representeth not Christes soule vnlesse onely in respect of the escaping of it when the other goat died yet not the body of the holocaust but the vtter consuming by sire of the whole signifieth the sufferings of whole Christ What agreement hath ESCAPING with VTTER CONSVMING and yet you make both these actions to be figures of the sufferings of Christes soule So that Christes soule by your refined figures did escape free from death and not escape free from death for you defend that Christ died the death of the soule and was vtterly consumed and could not be consumed but as it were escaped and yet escaped not and was at it were vtterly consumed and yet could no way be consumed but escaped free and vntouched as the Scape-goat did Such is your settlednesse that yea and no with you are as it were all one That fire did signifie the incorruption of Christes flesh after death is very hard and farre fetcht Sacrifices had their respect to Christes death not to any thing further or afterwards All things are farre fetcht with you that come not from the whirlepoole of your owne head It is the iudgement of S. Austen and other learned Fathers which you so lightly esteeme The same substance of the bodie shall be changed into an heauenly qualitie quod ignis in sacrificio significabat velut absorbens mortem in victoriam which fire in sacrifice signified as it were swallowing vp death in victorie Whom Bede disdaineth not to follow Ignis in sacrificio id significabat velut absorbens mortem in victoriam Fire in sacrifice did signifie victorie euen swallowing vp death Cyril is of the same minde Agreeably to the sacrifices did heauenly fire consume all things that were done by our Sauiour in the bodie and restored them all neerer to the nature of his Diuinitie for rising from the dead he ascended to heauen his passage to which place the nature of fire doth shew To farder sufferings after Christes death no sacrifice had respect because there neither were any nor needed any but to the efficacie and glorie consequent to Christes death the fire in sacrifices had respect as these Fathers affirme Against whom though you euery where oppose the worm-eaten warrant of your owne words I trust you will somewhat relent to the Apostles authoritie who telleth you that the high Priests going intâ—… the most holy place with the blood of the sacrifice once euery yeere signified Christes entring the heauens with his owne blood which I hope was after both his death and his resurrection As for an other sense out of Austen that it should signifie our perfection and burning charitie it can not be true for the holocaust-sacrifice out of question primarily signified the person of Christ not ours Also you both here do seeme to double vnderstanding by the holocaust both incorruption after death and a perfect burning loue in vs now in this life which things are farre distant and can not stand together You are so giddie that you dislike euerie thing and so hastie that you conceiue nothing right S. Austen sayth indeed that fire in the holocaust may note the feruent â—…esse of charitie and brightnesse of immortalitie which are all one with perfection and incorruption What fault finde you with this The holocaust you say signified primarily the person of Christ not ours Doth S. Austen denie that It suffâ—…ceth for the trueth of his wordes that those sacrifices did principally point out Christes sufferings grace and glorie and consequently ours For as we haue fellowship with his afflictions and are conformed vnto his death so shall we be partakers of his perfection and incorruption and be fashioned to his image 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 If we suffer as he did sayth Paul that we may be glorified as he was not presuming an equalitie with him but promising a conformitie to him The Sacrifices then which as you grant primarily signified the person passion and perfection of Christ did secondly note and teach our dying to sinne our rising againe in glorie and appearing before him in perfect holinesse which in this life we endeuour but can not attaine to the full till by death we be freed from sinne The bearing of Christs Image is enough to iustifie Saint Austens speech For he neither saith that the holocaust did primarily signifie the members of Christ nor that men could haue perfection of charitie in this life but when Christ shall present vs righteous and glorious vnto his Father then shall he offer vs as holocausts vnto God And yet in the meane while what hindereth Saint Austen to exhort vs that the Diuine fire of Gods wisedome and grace may wholy inflame vs and euen consume vs Who but a moth of your mould would giue Saint Austen the lâ—…e twice in two lines for so speaking and in the third line after charge him with doubling as if Christs puritie in this life and glorie after this life could not stand together or the perfection of Gods Saints here such as
you had Fathers to witnesse your fansies of Christes suffering the death of the soule and paines of hell you would soone recken them and more regard them than now you doe when they directly gainsay your late deuice of a new kinde of redemption which the Scriptures neuer specifie These Fathers I brought not against you as you imagine not perceiuing what maketh with you nor what against you In shew these places seemed to make against me and to disclaime that assertion which I concluded out of the Scriptures that the bloud of Christ redeemed and sanctified both our bodies and soules Lest therefore the simple should stumble at any such sayings of the Fathers not knowing their meanings I brought them to expound them and to let the Reader see that indeed I dissented not from them but confessed as they intended that in Christes suffering for sinne the whole man that is bodie and soule must be ioyned together And if any part of Christs humane nature were wholy freed and exempted from suffering that part in vs was not fully ransomed By which they neuer ment that Christs soule must haue seuerall sufferings for our soules and his body likewise for our bodies but as Adam sinned in both ioyntly so the punishment of sinne which Christ vndertooke for vs must be felt ioyntly in both and if either part in Christes sufferings were vntouched some part in vs was vnrestored This to be the true meaning of those Fathers and all that their words must inferre if they will speake trueth and agree with themselues as no doubt they doe your selfe is a witnesse sufficient against your selfe In defence of your doctrine you say It is most false that we precisely say that Christs body satisfied for our bodies and his soule for our soules yea ech of them in a seuerall and distinct kinde of satisfying which thing we neuer meant but acknowledge the sufferings of the whole man Christ do satisfie for vs wholly without any such precise partition What you dare not affirme because it is false and repugnant to the Scriptures I hope you will not impose on the Fathers so long as their words conclude no such thing They say precisely Christ gaue his flesh to be a redemption for our flesh and his soule likewise to be a redemption for our soules Whereby they meane no distinct sufferings of Christes soule for our soule nor of his bodie for our bodies but a ioynt suffering of both for both which you call the sufferings of the whole man Christ for vs wholly So farre we agree you acknowledging mine exposition of the Fathers to be such as you doe not nor dare not impugne for otherwise you must make them contradict both the Scriptures and themselues which they neuer ment if they should say that our soules are not clensed redeemed and sanctified by the bloud of Christ What now inferre you farder out of their wordes Marke well how these Fathers do not say that Christ gaue his life for a ransome only as you would construe it but euen his verie soule for our soules You are a worthie Clerke if you vnderstand not that nothing but the very soule of man is the life of his bodie and therefore Christ in giuing his life for vs must needs giue his verie soule for vs. The one of them doth not exclude the other as you vainly collect but implieth the other as by the vsuall speeches of the Scriptures and generall consent of all Interpreters olde and new may soone appeare They are dead sayth the Angell to Ioseph that sought the childes soule meaning Herod that went about to destroy Christ in his cradle Be not pensiue for your soule sayth our Sauiour what ye shall eat or what ye shall drinke Is not your soule of more value then meate Meate and drinke maintaine life and so continue the soule in the body otherwise they are no way needfull for the soule He that loseth his soule for my sake saith Christ shall saue it How can a man lose his soule for Christ but by laying downe his life for Christ There shall be no losse of any mans soule among you but of the ship said Paul to them that sayled with him which was performed in that they came all safe to land So of Epaphroditus Paul saith for the worke of Christ he was neere vnto death not regarding his Soule Nothing is more often in the Scriptures then for life to vse the name of Soule which is the cause of life and by the soule to expresse life which is a necessary consequent of the Soule remaining in the body as death is of the Soule departing from the body This kind of speech so familiar with the Hebrewes and so frequent in the olde and new Testament our Sauiour keepeth when he speaketh of his owne death The good sheepeheard saith Christ layeth downe his soule for his sheepe I am the good sheepeheard and lay downe my soule for the sheepe Therefore the Father loueth me because I lay downe my Soule to take it againe No man taketh it from me but I lay it downe of my selfe As also when he said the Sonne of man came to serue and to giue his soule for the ransom of many he intended no more then when he said I lay downe my soule for ‖ the ‖ sheepe which must needs be for the ransome of the sheepe So the Prophet foretold that Christ should power out his soule vnto death and make it an offering for sinne which loue of God we know by this saith Iohn that he layed downe his soule for vs. If auncient Fathers and learned expositors may be heard concurring with the Scriptures and obseruing this in the Scriptures we want neither old nor new all confessing it to be a case most cleere that by dying for vs Christ laid downe his Soule and gaue it for vs. Christ bowing his head saith Athanasius and yeelding vp the spirite which was within his body that is his soule declared whereof he spake this I lay downe my soule for my sheepe Austen the Soule is put for the life as where it is said he that hateth not his soule can not be my Disciple And likewise is not the soule more worth then meate that is this life for which meate is needfull And so that which Christ saith he will lay downe his soule for his sheepe by which he meaneth his life when he pronounceth that he will die for vs Ambrose Christ tooke vpon him the person of a sheepeheard and said a good sheepeheard layeth downe his soule for his sheepe Ideóque pro rationali grege seipsum passioni corporis non negauit and therefore for his reasonable flocke he yeelded himselfe to the passion or death of his body Cyrill When Christ might haue declined the rage of the Iewes and the gibbet of the crosse he so loued his that he refused not to die for the
sheepeheard and lay downe my soule for my sheepe that is by my death men are deliuered from eternall death I aske now the Christian Reader whether he thinke it a shift of mine when Christ gaue his soule for vs or our soules for me to say that he gaue it by the losse of his life in such sort as the Euangelists describe or whether the Scriptures and Fathers together with the later writers doe not consent with me in the same exposition of Christs words This conclusion then that Christ gaue his soule for our soules doth not inferre that he had distinct times places or manners of suffering or dying for our soules and then for our bodies that is erroneous iniurious to the death of Christ and openly disclaimed euen by the Discourser himselfe but that in suffering death on the crosse by which his soule was separated from his body after long and sharpe torments first endured in his body his soule was the chiefe or rather the onely patient that discerned and sustained the bitternesse of the paines and perceiued the cause for which and the counsell of God from whence all that affliction was ordained and decreed For as we sinned in body and soule but chiefly in soule so Christs death for our Redemption must grieue both body and soule but chiefly the soule which was ioyned with the body in suffering death that both soule and body might be redeemed and the paine thereof proportioned to the soule as the pleasure of sinne chiefly delighted the soule More then this no Father euer ment and this is no way denied by me You would faine wring in a conceite of your owne into their words which is mainly directly against their words and resolutions in all other places and therefore which of vs two deserueth best the name of a shifter let the Reader iudge The Fathers striue to expresse an exact proportion so farre as was possible betweene Christ and vs first in the parts that suffered in Christ and are saued in vs Next in that which Christ suffered for vs and which we are saued from thereby They iustly conclude that no parts of our nature are saued in vs but such as Christ assumed into the vnitie of his person and therefore in Christs sufferings there must be body and soule before they could be humane sufferings or auailable for vs. As by man came death so by man came the resurrection of the dead But that they doe or would affirme that we are saued from no more then Christ suffered for vs or that we are wholy freed from all those kinds of paines which he suffered for our sakes this is a false and fantasticall proportion of your owne inuenting it is no part of their meaning Sundry things should we haue suffered for sinne as the death of the soule and the death of the damned besides reiection from all grace and blisse confusion malediction and many other terrors and torments of conscience which by no meanes these Fathers apply to Christ but in euident and vehement words auouch the contrarie Christ likewise suffered wrong reproch shame paine and death of the body from which we are not freed yea rather we must haue fellowship with his afflictions and be conformed vnto his death before we shall be partakers of the comforts that are in him or of his resurrection So that your running to proportions of your owne compounding when you should bring sound probations for that you defend is mad Musicke though best becomming the discords of your doctrine As we are saued not in our bodies onely nor onely in the externall sensitiue part of our soules wherein standeth that suffering with and by our bodies but we are saued redeemed and sanctified in our whole spirit and vnderstanding also euen so by their verdict Christ suffered for vs not the bodily and outward sufferings by Sympathie onely but he suffered for vs euen in his minde also Now this is directly against your present assertion A man can not readily tell whether your assertion in this place be more false absurd or idle The Scripture teacheth vs that a man hath but two substances of which he consisteth a mortall and visible which is his bodie an immortall and inuisible which is his soule Our Sauiour who best knew what man had saith as much Feare not them which kill the bodie but can not kill the soule feare him rather that can destroy soule and bodie in hell The names of these parts are sometimes varied and sometimes diuided into sundrie powers and faculties but the partes themselues cannot be increased Salomon speaking of mans death sayth Dust goeth to the earth as it was meaning the bodie and the Spirit returneth to God that gaue it meaning the Soule Of a Virgin Paul sayth she careth for the things of the Lord that she may be holy both in bodie and spirit that is in bodie and soule And writing to the Thessalonians the same Apostle saith that their whole Spirit and Soule and Bodie may be kept blamelesse vnto the comming of the Lord Iesus Christ. Of this place diuerse haue diuersly thought Chrysostome Theodoret Ambrose Ierome Oecumenius and Theophylact commenting on these words take the spirit for the grace of Gods spirit wherewith our mindes are lightned and renewed and indeede sometimes Paul vseth the word spirit for the gifts of the spirit as where he saith Quench not the spirit and calleth them our spirits as the Spirits of the Prophets are subiect to the Prophets Howbeit Athanasius Tertullian Epiphanius Gregorie Nyssene Augustine Bede and others take here the spirit for the vnderstanding and minde of man as also Caluine Zanchius and Beza doe who referre the soule here spoken of to the will and affections of man not that any of them maketh two soules in man which were most absurd but that by those names they note two different faculties or functions in one and the same substance of mans soule Come now to your words and see how handsomely you proportion them either to your Authors or to the trueth or to your purpose Not one of the Fathers which you cite nameth the minde of Christ but onely his soule and his bodie saue Nazianzene who speaketh not of Christs suffering in the minde but of his sanctifying the same by assuming it in his incarnation Let himselfe explane his owne wordes in the very same place Our mind some say is condemned And what our flesh is not that also condemned then either cast away mans flesh from Christ for sinne or admit mans mind that it may be saued For if Christ take the worse part of man to sanctific it by his incarnation shall he not take the better part that it may be sanctified 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by his assuming of mans nature I speake not this as if it might not safely be granted that Christs soule suffered as well by
his minde as by his sense and you nothing the neerer to your purpose of his suffering hell paines in mind from the immediate hand of God but to let the Reader see how you catch at Fathers for an aduantage without any shew of their words and when they make against you you reiect with disdaine the whole aray of them Your diuiding of man into his parts and your resolutions thereupon are more absurd and haue neither trueth learning nor common vnderstanding in them Of man to shew your exactnesse you make these partes â—…e bodie the externall sensitiue part of the soule the whole spirit and vnderstanding also You name here the bodie the soule and the spirit but so vntowardly that neither your selfe nor any man els can tell how to make them agree Hath the soule if you will needes distinguish it from the spirit no moe parts or powers to suffer or to be saued but the externall sensitiue part will you take the soule to be all one with the spirit and so make the whole spirit as much as the whole soule But the Apostle reckoneth the whole spirit the soule and the bodie whose words you would seeme to follow and so seuereth the soule from the spirit But not by the externall sensitiue part as you doe Againe why adde you the vnderstanding also after the whole spirit As if it were no part thereof but a different thing from the spirit But this is your skill when you come to any matter of importance to wrap it in ambiguous and confused termes that it shall be more masterie to vnderstand you then to refute you And how commeth it about by your Philosophie that the sufferings of the soule by and from the body pierce no farder then into the externall senses of the soule Doe the sufferings of the body offend and afflict the powers onely or the substance also of the soule Is not the very substance of the Soule passible and punishable as well by the powers of sense as by the affections and vnderstanding The actions passions powers and faculties of the soule are they not all grounded on and seated in the substance of the soule so that from thence all the actions thereof must proceed therein all the passions thereof must be receiued and thereon all the faculties thereof depend Are you so learned in logick that you will bring vs passions without a subiect or powers and faculties without a substance Whether it be therefore by the vnderstanding will affections or sense that the soule suffereth the substance thereof suffereth by those powers and meanes and not any part thereof for so much as the substance of the soule is not diuisible into parts as being a spirit though the powers and faculties thereof may be distinguished and called parts Then is it a strange position of yours that the sensitiue part suffereth or that the vnderstanding suffereth and not the soule by either of them when indeed the substance of the soule suffereth by or from her power or faculties of sense vnderstanding and will which are the meanes that God hath made to impresse paine on the soule For the vnderstanding which you call the mind is no more a seuerall substance in the soule then the power of sense is and the soule not onely discerneth particular things by her facultie of sense as she doth consequent and generall things by hir facultie of reason but by the eares and eyes she heareth the word and beholdeth the works of God whence commeth information of faith and truth Of the vnderstanding Epiphanius saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. I thinke not our mind to be any substance of it selfe neither hath any of the children of the Church so thought but to be an effectuall power or operation giuen of God and abiding in vs. Of the sense Tertullian saith Anima perinde per corpus corporalia sentit quemadmodum per animam incorporalia intelligit The soule perceiueth corporall things by the sense euen as she doth vnderstand incorporall things by the mind And shewing how both those powers depend on the soule he addeth Sit nunc potior sensu intellectus dummodo ipse propria vis animae quod sensus Let the vnderstanding excell the sense so that it be a proper facultie of the Soule as the sense is Of the passions of Christs Soule Fulgentius writeth Nunc ostendendum nobis est passionem tristitiae maeroris taedij timoris ad animae substantiam propriè pertinere Now must we shew that the passion of sorrow heauinesse and loathing of hart and feare which our Sauiour felt pertaine properly to the substance of the soule And at the length concluding that the flesh of it selfe can neither haue life nor sense nor sorrow nor desire nor feare nor mourning he saith Haec ergo cuncta in anima quam susceperat pertulit Christus vt veram totamque in se cum suis infirmitatibus hominis demonstraret accepti substantiam All these passions Christ endured in his soule which he tooke that he might shew in himselfe THE TRVE AND VVHOLE SVBSTANCE of a man with his infirmities The purpose for which you pretend so many Fathers is as idle as all the rest for the Soule of Christ might suffer by her senses by her affections by her vnderstanding and will and yet not suffer the paines of hell nor the death of the soule which is your doctrine Though therefore the Fathers doe say that the soule of Christ suffered in his death and passion which is a thing I neuer doubted of much lesse called in question yet neither auouch they it suffered your hell paines neither from the immediate hand of God as your deuice leadeth which things are as strange to them as those they neuer heard of By the Fathers Christ suffered exactly all and whatsoeuer sorrowes and paines which we should haue suffered as well spirituall as corporall as well in all the powers of the soule subiect to suffering as in that which suffered alwaies with and from the body This if you would prooue by the Fathers themselues and not by your false translating and misapplying their words which otherwise haue no such thing you said somewhat You haue raked together some places alleaged formerly by me or formerly refuted by me and out of them you would make fresh shewes if you could tell how There is onely one place of Cyrill taken out of my Sermons by you as you doe the rest of your authorities which hath generall termes apt to be wrested by you and forced against the Authors minde which you forget not to straine to the vttermost the rest are miserably racked without cause or colour from the Fathers mindes and wordes Cyrill saith Omnia Christus perpessus est vt nos ab omnibus liberaret Christ suffered all things that he might free vs from all where the word ALL is found which you make the ground of all your descant
be deliuered into the hands of men and they shall kill him And againe The Sonne of man shall be deliuered to be crucified and immediately before his apprehension Behold the houre is come the Sonne of man is deliuered into the hands of sinners This deliuering of Christ into the hands of men to be crucified was the not sparing him which the Apostle meant and was that for saking which Christ testified on the Crosse as Tertullian thinketh Filium dereliquit dum hominem eius tradit in mortem Hoc Apostolus sensit scribens si pater Filio non pepercit Sic reliquit dum non parcit sic reliquit dum tradit Ceterum non reliquit pater filium in cuius manibus Filius spiritum suum posuit Denique posuit statim obijt Spiritu enim manente in carne caro omnino mori non potest Ita relinqui á patre mori fuit filio God left or forsooke his Sonne as Christ complained on the Crosse whiles he deliuered his humane nature vnto death This the Apostle meant when he wrote if God spared not his Sonne So God left him whiles he spared him not so God left him whiles he deliuered him Otherwise the Father forsooke not the Sonne into whose hands the Sonne commended his spirit He laide it downe and presently died For while the spirit abideth in the flesh the flesh can not die at all Then to bee left of the Father was as much in the Sonne as to die Here are Tertullians words in order as they stand Where first he maketh the Sonne to die when hee laide downe his soule into his Fathers hands This death by which the soule of Christ departed from his body was that deliuering that not sparing which Paul meant and that forsaking which Christ spake of on the crosse What finde you here for the paines of Hell or for the proper sufferings of the soule You may peruert any mans words if you will but of them selues these are very coherent and euident In Ambrose you finde more hold He saith Minus contulerat mihi nisimeum suscepisset affectum Christ had done lesse for me if hee had not beene altogether affected as I should haue beene Though you be no good concluder yet are you a notable translatour For you can turne the English not onely cleane from but quite against the Latine Where Ambrose saith Christ had done lesse for mee if taking my nature vnto him hee had not also taken my naturall affection vnto him as feare sorrow and such like you misconster affection for punishment and mine that is naturally mine for that which I should haue suffered in hell and adding the word altogether of your owne you make Ambrose say that Christ was altogether affected that is punished in soule as I should haue beene in hell if I had not bene redeemed But by what Grammar doth affectus signifie hell paines Feare griefe and sorrow are naturall affections in all men and passions of the soule they signifie not in their owne nature the torments of the damned How shall we know this to bee Ambrose meaning Hee that hath but halfe an eye may see by that whole Chapter the roote of this sorrow to bee the infirmitie of our nature in Christ and the cause thereof to be his compassion and pitie had of vs and for vs. The next words to those which you bring are Ergo pro me doluit qui pro se nihil habuit quod doleret And presently taedio meae infirmitatis afficitur Christ therefore sorrowed for me who had nothing in him selfe for which he should sorrow he is affected with the tediousnesse of my infirmitie The tediousnesse of our infirmitie affected him not the torments of hell suffered in his owne soule Neque speciem incarnationis suscepit sed veritatem Debuit ergo dolorem suscipere vt vinceret tristitiam non excluderet Christ tooke vpon him not the shew but the trueth of our flesh Hee was therefore to feele griefe as a consequent to our nature that he might ouercome sorrow and not exclude it Tristis est non ipse sed anima Suscepit enim animam meam suscepit corpus meum Anima obnoxia passionibus Christ was sorrowfull not in person but in soule For he tooke vnto him my soule and my body Now the soule it is that is subiect to passions Is hell with you of late become a naturall infirmitie and affection that wheresoeuer you reade either of these words you streight inferre the paines of hell The causes of Christes sorrow will put all out of doubt and are plainely recited by Ambrose in the ende of this Chapter though stifly reiected by you because they sort not with your conceits Tristis videbatur tristis erat non pro sua passione sed pro nostra dispersione Christ seemed sorrowfull and indeede was sorrowfull not for his owne suffering but for our dispersing You say Christs sorrow was for the suffering of hell paines in his soule Ambrose saith in expresse words Christ sorrowed not for his owne suffering which of you twaine shall wee thinke best vnderstoode Ambrose meaning him selfe or you Christ sorowed saith Ambrose for our dispersion he sorrowed because he left vs orphanes he sorrowed for his persecutors All these occasions of sorrow in Christ at the time of his passion mentioned by Ambrose you vtterly disauerre and in spite of Ambrose teeth you will haue the infirmitie and affection of mans nature in Christ to signifie hell Yet Ierom shall helpe at a neede who saith That which we should haue borne for our sinnes the same Christ suffered for vs. You might haue done well to haue put quicquid for quod as one of your fellowes hath done alleaging this place that where Ierom would not say Christ suffered for vs whatsoeuer we should haue suffered your selues may speake it in his name Neither is it so strange a thing with you to translate all for some In the very next Page before citing Ambrose words hoc in se obtulit Christus quod induit Christ offered that in him selfe which he tooke of vs you render it Christ offered in sacrifice ALL that which he assumed which translation is euidently false whatsoeuer the illation be This place of Ierom I haue already answered in the conclusion of my Sermons and but that the booke happely will not alwaies be at hand I would spend no moe words therein The particular can not hurt me if it be simply graunted and the generall is not affirmed by Ierom. Howbeit Ierom in plaine speech presently expresseth what he ment Christ suffered for vs. By this saith he it is manifest that as Christs body whipt and torne bare the printes of the stripes and wrongs so his soule truely sorrowed for vs. What neede we any other exposition then his owne that Christ suffered for vs smart of body and griefe of minde which were due to vs in this world
at his death as all his life long had both a body and a perfect reasonable and humane soule indued with all the powers affections and infirmities of mans nature saue sinne and the corruption of sinne yet is it no consequent with Ambrose that Christs soule was made of a woman as his flesh was nor that Christ died the death of the soule when his body died on the Crosse. Let them doubt saith Ambrose of that which the Prophet saith my soule hateth your new Moones and Sabboths This that is testified in the Gospel therefore the Father loueth me because I lay downe my soule to take it againe they can not refute to bee spoken of the proprietie of the soule when as it is spoken of the Lords death and resurrection The bodie of Christ could not die but by laying downe his soule as also it could not rise to life but by taking it againe So that both Christes death and his resurrection doe cleerely prooue that he had a true soule as Ambrose noteth which by his death was seuered from his body and by his resurrection was assumed againe into his body And yet that death was proper to Christs body and not to his soule though the soule felt the smart and sting thereof as well before as when it departed from his body Corpus est quod amit tit animam amittendo fit mortuum it a mortui vocabulum corpori competit Porro si resurrectio mortui est mortuum autem non aliud est quà m corpus corporis erit resurrectio It is the body saith Tertullian that looseth the soule and by loosing it dieth so that the word dead agreeth to the body Now if the resurrection be of that which was dead and nothing can be dead besides the body Resurrection must likewise pertaine to the body This death and this resurrection I meane of the body was found in Christ yours is very strange to Ambrose and to all the Fathers Per quam nisiper corporis mortem mortis vincula dissoluit By what other death saith Ambrose then by the death of the body did Christ breake the bands of death Thus haue you spent your great store of Fathers with small successe and though you dissemble where you borrowed them yet you dissemble not your excessiue bragging of them as if they were cleane against me and for you in the chiefest point of this question where indeede you doe but reach after a word in them here and there and that not rightly conceaued or not rightly translated from whence you would faine inferre your fansies saue that neither the grounds of trueth nor learning will beare you out in your conclusions That Christs sufferings did belong to bodie and soule the Fathers affirme whether by Sympathie or without Sympathie they say nothing much lesse that Christ suffered in minde distinctly from soule or bodie Nazianzene saith he assumed mans mind at his incarnation that thereby he might sanctifie it besides him not one of your places so much as nameth the minde As for Gods immediate hand punishing the soule of Christ in his passion if you should fast till you find that in these or any other Fathers you should fast not fourtie dayes but yeares And as though these were not falsities enough to loade the Fathers with you hoyse vp the top sayle of vntrueth and flant it out that these Fathers say Christ suffered all these paines which els we should haue suffered and was spared in nothing plainely belying your Authors which say no such thing and out-facing your Reader as if his sight did not serue him to seuer your shamefull additions from the texts of those ancient writers Cyrill sayth Christ suffered all things that is all naturall and innocent infirmities and passions of bodie and soule as Cyrill explaineth himselfe in the same Chapter yea in the close of the very same sentence to whose words you adde of your owne WHICH els we should haue suffered Only you ioyned them at first so cunningly to Cyrils sentence hauing two parts that a man could not readily tell to which you referred this addition saue that now in the recapitulation of your proofes you apparantly tie them to the former For if you made Cyrill to say Christ suffered to free vs from all which els we should haue suffered that assertion is verie true onely these last words are yours and not Cyrils If you make him to say Christ suffered all which els we should haue suffered this hath neither trueth in it nor any colour in Cyrils text Ierome indeede saith Christ suffered that which we ought to haue suffered meaning what Christ suffered was due to vs and not to him but Ierome is farre from your all which els we should haue suffered Your sleight then in collecting your conceits from the Fathers sayings is woorth the obseruing Nazianzene sayth Christ in his incarnation assumed mans mind to sanctisie it Cyrill saith Christ SVFFERED ALL the infirmities and passions of mans nature Ierome sayth That which was due to vs for our sinnes Christ suffered for vs. And Tertullian saith God spared not his owne Sonne but deliuered him for vs that is God spared him not from deliuering Out of these foure places hauing different causes ends and respects for which to which in which they were written you clout this conclusion as common to them all which is repugnant to euery one of them that Christ IN MIND so saieth Nazianzene SVFFERED ALL so saith Cyrill WHICH VVAS DVE TO VS so saith Ierome WITHOVT SPARING so saith Tertullian By this order and manner of hudling and hampering different things and diuerse places together you may collect what you will when you will and out of whom you will and this is your cleare and plaine sense of the Fathers against the which you say I can take no exception After this you fal againe to your first trench more of termes and wandering a while about the phrases of Gods proper wrath the true and right punishment of sinne two countenances in Christ and the coincidence of his soule and spirit you would faine conclude if you could that if Christ suffered the wrath of God for vs he suffered the true paines of hell which I auouched you neuer should be able to doe Whether I or you abuse the Reader with ambiguous and doubtfull words I leaue to his iudgement that taketh the paines to peruse what is past and what followeth truely I disaduantage my selfe very much so precisely to diuide distinguish and prooue euery thing as I doe if I ment to slide away with generalities But you that neither can nor will specifie any parts nor bring any proofes of your chiefest assertions but keepe your selfe safe vnder the shelter of certaine phrases deuised by your selfe without any warrant of Scriptures or Fathers and neuer expounded nor defined in all your writing saue onely with AS IT VVERE and after a sort what meaning you can haue to handle so great
bodilie death which God had irreuocably pronounced and executed on Adam and his ofspring by returning him and them to the earth for manie thousand yeeres before Christ came but rather in that to partake with vs that he might saue vs from the rest which in all the wicked did accompany this death and in the end to raise vs againe to a better life lest we should faint vnder the hand of God who fastneth vs to the afflictions of this life by the example and fellowship of Christs sufferings For if we suffer with him we shall raigne with him and we must first die in Adam before we can be quickned againe in Christ. They are now profitable for vs you will say and so rather helpe vs than hurt vs in this corruption of sinne with which we are compassed I doubt not thereof and so were they from the first instant that they were imposed on Adam but how came this corruption of our nature if not as a punishment of sinne in Adam and consequently the remedies thereof do also witnesse Gods displeasure against sinne though they be farre more holesome for vs than to rot in the sores of our inward corruption Can any man doubt but God was and is able to cleere vs though neuer so corrupt from the infection and dominion of sinne by the working of his Spirit more mightilie and casilie than by troubles and griefs if it had so seemed good to his wisdome and iustice And had he determined to shew vs onlie loue without all regard to his iustice how readie was it for him in Christ to haue released as well all corporall and temporall affliction to his elect as he did spirituall and eternall But he resolued otherwise in his most wise counsell for the conseruation of his iustice and so now healeth our corruption with the salue of affliction to let vs haue continually presented before our eyes and impressed in our bodies what our sinne at first did and still doth deserue though he neuer withdrew his mercie from vs which in the end shall most abundantly recompense all Wherefore it is no reason that because troubles are profitable or necessarie for our corrupt state therefore they are not effects of Gods displeasure against sinne yea rather because God could haue otherwise cured sinne in vs and would not but by perpetuall affliction it is an argument that God so hated sinne in our first parents that he would haue the verie remembring curing thereof to be alwayes in this life painfull and grieuous to our outward man though he would also comfort vs in Christ whiles heere we liue and heereafter crowne vs with glorie for Christes sake Neither is this a question of words whether they be proper or improper in the Scriptures but a point of doctrine necessarie to be receiued of all men that the corruption and dissolution of our nature and life in this world doth manifest the exceeding hatred that naturallie God hath of sinne who rewarded it in all mankinde so seuerely that he spared neither the bodies soules states nor liues of his elect from sensible signes of his detesting sinne in them though for his sonnes sake in whom they were beloued and adopted he would by his wonderfull power rather further than indanger their saluation euen by those maladies and corrosiues of sinne This sheweth the greatnesse of Gods power and goodnesse of his mercie towards vs but this altereth not the iudgement which God pronounced and punishment which he inflicted on Adam and all his ofspring for sinne The corruption and infection of sinne which naturally and continually dwelleth in all the godly called by Diuines concupiscence is it no punishment of sinne because the guilt thereof is remitted in Baptisme and now it is left in vs to humble vs and awake vs to call for grace and to resist sinne that striuing with it we see not only the danger of sinne assaulting vs but the Spirit of God assisting vs and bountie of God rewarding vs The actuall sinnes of the faithfull shall we thinke them no sinnes but fauors from God because by them God worketh repentance submission conuersion yea faith zeale ioy and thanksgiuing in his elect God worketh sayth Austen all things for the good of those that loue him and so farre forth vtterly all things that if any of them stray and for sake the right way euen that God turneth to their good because they returne more humble and better taught The like I say of death and other miseries of mans life pronounced first by Gods mouth and still inflicted by Gods hand They are as they were degrees or effects of Gods anger against sinne in Adam pursuing him and all his posteritie for the confirmation of his iustice though by Gods mercie towards his they now serue as they did euen at the first in Gods children to represse sinne to worke repentance to raise confidence in God and contempt of all earthly things and to exercise the graces of Gods Spirit giuen them as patience obedience and such like and to giue them assurance of a better life The Church of Christ euer was and is of the same minde with me that the death of the bodie with her seeds and fruits in this life first entred and still remaineth as a PVNISHMENT of sin Men shunned saith Austen the death of the flesh rather than the death of the spirit that is the punishment rather than the cause of the punishment We came vnto death by sinne Christ by righteousnesse ideo cum sit mors nostra poena peccati mors illius facta est hostia pro peccato and therefore where our death is the punishment of sinne his death was the sacrifice for sinne Theodoret speaking of the separation of bodie and soule wherby that which is mort all sustaineth death the soule remaining free from death as being immortall asketh his aduersarie 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Doest thou not thinke death to be a punishment Who answering The Diuine Scripture teacheth so much Theodoret inferreth Is death then the punishment of sinners The other yeelding that this is granted of all men Theodoret concludeth Why then since both the soule and bodie sinned doth the bodie alone sustaine the punishment of death Fulgentius Nisi praecessisset in peccato mors animae nunquam corporis mors in supplicio sequeretur Except the death of the soule had gone before by sinne the death of the bodie had neuer followed after as a punishment And therefore of our flesh he sayth Nascitur cum poena mortis pollutione peccati It is borne with the punishment of death and pollution of sinne And of yoong children By what iustice is an infant subiected to the wages of sinne if there be no vncleannesse of sinne in him or how do we see him strooken with death if he felt not the sting thereof which is sinne Maxentius in the confession of his faith We beleeue sayth he that not only the death of
the bodie which is the punishment of sinne but also the sting of death which is sinne entred into the world because we consent not to these men who say the contrarie but to the Apostle who testifieth that sinne and death went ouer all men Prosper The punishment of sinne which Adam the root of mankinde receiued by Gods sentence saying Earth thou art and to earth thou shalt returne and transmitted to his posteritie as to his branches the Apostle sayth entred into the world by one mans sinne and so ranged ouer all men Beda The death as well of vs men as of Christ is called sinne because it is the effect and punishment of that sinne which Adam committed The second councell of Arrange about 450 yeres after Christ confesseth no lesse If any man affirme that only the death of the bodie which is the punishment of sinne and not sinne also which is the death of the soule passed by one man to all mankinde he ascribeth iniustice to God and contradicteth the Apostle who sayth By one man sinne entred into the world and by sinne death passed ouer all men Our later writers though they fully defend that God doth not punish his either to destruction as he doth the wicked nor for satisfaction of sinne as he did his owne Sonne for the sinnes of all his Saints and to comfort the afflicted they set before them the presence of Gods power assisting them in their miseries or deliuering them from their troubles the purpose of God respecting wholy their good and the promise of God exceedingly recompencing their patience yet when they come to the causes prouoking God to this seueritie they acknowledge that to be sinne and teach euery man to descend into himselfe and to giue God the glorie in that his righteous iudgement beginneth at his owne house Of the euils which we suffer in this life there be many and sundry causes saith Bullinger but sinne it selfe is counted to be the generall cause For by disobedience sinne entred into the world and by sinne death diseases and all the mischiefes in the world The persecutions and cruell tortures inflicted on the Church of God or on particular Martyrs as they were offered them for the confession and testimony of the faith and truth of the Gospell so for the most part they had for their causes the offences and sinnes of the godly which the iustice of God did visite in his seruants though for the good and welfare of his Saints The people of Israell sinned against the Lord in the desert vnder the Iudges and Kings very often and very enormously and were grieuously punished by the Lord but againe they were speedily deliuered as often as they acknowledged their sinnes and turned vnto the Lord. If therefore any man suffer any euill for sinne committed let him acknowledge the iust iudgement of God vpon himselfe and humble himselfe vnder the mightie hand of God confessing it vnto God and asking pardon with lowly praier let him patiently beare that which he hath so well deserued to suffer It is certaine saith Zanchius that all the punishments and miseries which we feele in this world are from sin and inflicted for sinne In which place he resolueth by a plaine thesis that death is the punishment of sinne and so are all those things which are the fruits of death as well in Soule as in body and in our externall state It is an argument saith Gualther of a mind skant religious wholy to despise death quam per peccatum ingressam peccati poenam esse omnes Scripturae testantur which all the Scriptures witnesse came in by sinne and is the punishment of sinne In the Philosophers commendations of the death of the bodie there are some things saith Peter Martyr not agreeable to the Christian faith and to the sacred Scriptures For we say that death must not be accounted any good but an euill thing Quandoquidem Deus illam vti poenam inflixit nostro generi For so much as God inflicted it as a punishment on mankind And so else where Omnes pij statuunt in morte â—…rae diuinae sensum esse ideoque sua natura dolorem horrorem incutit All the godly resolue that in death there is a sense of Gods wrath and therefore of his owne nature it impresseth a griefe and terror And if there be any to whom it is contenting and acceptable to die they haue that from some other fountaine and not from the nature of death There might be assigned saith Musculus many kinds of the wrath of God but for this present we content our selues with a triple diuision thereof whereby we diuide it into generall temporall and eternall The generall wrath of God is that wherewith the whole posteritie of Adam is enwrapped for originall sinne Hence come all the miseries of mankind which equally follow the condition of men and cleaue as well to our minds as to our flesh The temporall wrath of God is that Qua peccat is non impiorum modò sed piorum irascitur ac paenas de illis sumit in hac vita whereby God is angry with the sinnes not of the wicked onely but of the godly also and taketh punishment of them in this life Whether I speake or thinke otherwise then these new and old Diuines haue spoken and taught let the Reader iudge But mine owne Authors in the very places which I alleadge doe say that the nature of death is changed and that God is angry with his elect as a Father with his beloued children to chasten and amend them Peter Martyr saith indeede the nature of death is chaunged by Gods goodnes making that profitable to vs which of it selfe is very harmefull but with what condition doth he say it is changed Puta si quis obediente animo eam sube at néque poenam illam reijciat quam diuina iustitia nos omnes voluerit exoluere If a man submit himselfe vnto it with an obedient hart and reiect not that punishment which the iustice of God would haue vs all to suffer And so it was chaunged euen when it was inflicted on the elect in Adams loynes For Christ was first promised to be the bruizer of the Serpents head Now if death afterward tooke full and euerlasting hold on Christs members then the serpent preuailed against Christ and his chosen and not Christ against the Serpent Wherefore God so moderated his sentence that he adiudged Christes members in Adam no farder then to the earth whence Christ should raise them and vtterly abolish from them all the Serpents poyson that is sinne death and corruption but this prooueth not death to be good in Gods Children or to be no punishment of sinne in them because God conuerteth it to their aduantage in the ende no more then their sinnes are good because God turneth them also to the benefite of his elect For as you heard before Saint Austen
of the sword mans state and life on earth can not be maintained And therefore the politicke and penall lawes of Princes bee not derogatorie to Christes death nor iniuries to Christian men as the Libertines would haue them not because men haue more right to punish then God hath or their interest to punish could continue when Gods doth cease but for that it is expedient and needfull for vs so to bee gouerned in outward and earthly things till the time come when Christ will put downe all rule and all authoritie and power that God may be all in all Now if Christs death repeale not mans lawes how much lesse Gods irreuocable iudgements fastned to our nature and not hindering our saluation but renuing the memoriall of our sinne lest we should forget it or neglect it and teaching vs by tollerable and temporall paines what intollerable torments wee haue escaped by Gods mercies towards vs Wherefore Christ by his obedience vnto death hath shewed vs an example what to follow and thereby rather confirmed then reuersed his Fathers sentence for the time till he come to wipe all teares from our eyes and to restore vs to the glorious libertie of the sonnes of God which he hath presently purchased for vs though he will not presently execute it Lastly the death of Christ doeth not belong nor any benefite thereof but to such as repent and beleeue After his death Christ commanded repentance and remission of sinnes to be preached in his name among all nations and with all denounced He which will not beleeue shall be damned So that neither the incredulous nor the impenitent haue any part or pardon in Christes death and sufferings If then all the children of God would fully repent and perfectly beleeue surely all which they should suffer in this life I still except the naturall and as yet vnchangeable corruption of body and soule which abideth in them from their birth were onely trials of the graces and signes of their blessednesse Blessed are they saith our Sauiour that suffer persecution for righteousnesse sake for theirs is the kingdome of heauen When you doe well and suffer taking it patiently this saith Peter is acceptable vnto God But what praise is it if when yee be buffeted for your faults you take it patiently Now how many thousands are there in Christs flocke which defect in faith and specially in true repentance Yea how rare are they that repent when and as they ought Then hath Gods iustice cause enough and enough to punish all that either shrinke in faith neglect his will or slacke repentance notwithstanding the generall freedome obtained and proclaimed by the death of Christ and out of this number very few Christians are exempted Wherefore to make men beleeue that God hath no iustice or regardeth not his iustice to punish them in this life after hee hath once engraffed them into Christ because Christ hath suffered all the punishment of their sinnes for them is but to deceiue them God is most faithfull in his promises if we could take assured hold of them but if wee fall from them by diffidence or disobedience God wanteth no iustice to aggrauate his hand according to our deserts though in mercie he spare vs euen when he striketh vs and intendeth our conuersion and not our destruction how sharpe soeuer his plagues be which would be farre sharper if his loue towardes vs in Christ Iesu did not ouer-rule his iust displeasure against our sinnes The case with Christ was cleane otherwise He needed no amendment but that which he suffered was right punishment Right and proper if you may be moderator shall be what please you What is RIGHT AND TRVE PVNISHMENT you neuer define but pretending sinceritie when you come to the issue you enclose your conceites with verie proper right and such like phrases and so take your leaue But declare if you can or will vouchsafe to make others partakers of your mysteries what is proper and right verie and true punishment You must define punishment either by the paine which is suffered or by the purpose of the punisher that is by the cause for which it is inflicted You stand not in this place on the paine imposed but rather on the purpose of the punisher or cause of the punishment For if you measure punishment by the same paines then tell vs why the miseries of this life as penurie sicknesse and death be punishments in the wicked and not in the godly since they be the same in both setting aside the purpose of the punisher which is different in both They are you say for correction and amendment in the godly not for destruction and vengeance as they are in the wicked Then the purpose of the punisher by your intention maketh the paine to be punishment which being referred to another end as in other patients is no punishment though it be the selfe same paine in both And thence you draw your conclusion that since the sufferings of Christ could not be for correction and amendment in him therefore his afflictions euery one SMALL AND GREAT were true and proper punishments and the effects of Gods very wrath for sinne lying vpon him Otherwise the bodily afflictions which Christ suffered were the selfe same which the godly often suffer and yet you auouch them in the faithfull to be no punishments because they serue for correction and amendment in them which hauing no place in Christ you conclude his sufferings great and small to be true right and proper punishments But Sir how prooue you this diuision that all the punishments you call them paines which God inflicteth in this life are either for correction or for vengeance properly so called there is neither sufficiencie nor pietie in this partition of yours thus applied to Christ. For in the wicked Gods purpose is onely to reuenge sinne and therefore in the end God allotteth them the iust and full punishment of sinne which is euerlasting damnation And in the meane season during the time of his patience he mitigateth his hand in respect of that which shall follow but giueth them no inward grace to repent whereby they are in all their afflictions hardned and ripened for sorer vengeance as still repining and murmuring at the hand of God but neuer misliking or leauing their sinnes In the elect when they are disobedient and impenitent God persueth their sinnes with corporall and temporall plagues that they may returne and flie vnto him for mercie to which ende he giueth them grace in the midst of their miseries to acknowledge their offences and by faith to take hold of his promises made to them in Christ Iesus and so vpon their submission and conuersion he receiueth them to fauour whose persons he alwayes loued in his onely Sonne though he hated and scourged their vncleannesse In Christ Iesus the case was cleane different from the one and the other You confesse there was nothing in him to be corrected
or amended then was he not punished for correction On the other side much lesse did God purpose to destroy Christs person being his owne and onely Sonne as he doth the wicked whose bodies and soules he will destroy in hell and consequently Christ was not punished to destruction That is proper to the reprobate whose persons God hateth and leaueth in their sinnes that they may prouoke his iust wrath to their vtter destruction Then was Christ neither punished as the godly are for amendment nor as the wicked are for vengeance and so your partition is false and defectiue and all your collections grounded thereon are like the foundation that is voide of all strength and trueth What then was Gods purpose in punishing Christ for our sinnes euen that which you alwayes passe by with deafe and dull eares though it be often repeated and vrged vnto you because you will not be turned from the trade of your hellish paines Why God would not haue man redeemed but by the death and passion that I call the punishment of Christ Iesus the Scriptures yeeld many causes though of Gods will no cause may be required some respecting God himselfe some concerning Christ and some regarding vs. Touching God the crosse of Christ doth commend his wisdome shew his power manifest his loue content his holines preserue his iustice Christ crucisied as Paul sayth is the power of God and the wisdome of God to them that are saued howsoeuer the crosse of Christ seeme foolishnesse and weakenesse to them that perish Then to controle the carnall wisdome of the world and to confound the pride and strength of Satan and his members God would vse the basenesse and feeblenesse of the Crosse in sauing his elect Also to witnesse his loue towards vs he decreed the same So God loued the world that he gaue his onely begotten Sonne to be an offering and a sacrifice of a sweet smelling sauour vnto God With which Sacrifice the holinesse of God resteth so well pleased that he accepteth vs as holy and sanctified by the oblation of the bodie of Iesus Christ once made The vpholding of Gods Iustice by the death of Christ is often specified in the Scriptures By a man came death and by a man the resurrection from the dead Him that knew no sinne God made sinne for vs to wit a sacrifice for sinne that wee should be made the righteousnesse of God in him Therefore it was expedient that one man should die for the people and that the whole Nation perished not He was wounded for our transgressions and by his stripes are wee healed The Lord layed vpon him the iniquitie of vs all And where a Testament is there must be the death of the Testator for a Testament is confirmed when men are dead So that by the Scriptures themselues God decreed the Crosse of Christ in mans redemption to reueale his wisdome power and loue to the world and wholly to satisfie his holinesse and iustice which were thorowly displeased and prouoked with mans disobedience but as thorowly recompensed and appeased by the submission and obedience of Christ. As for Christ himselfe it is euident by the Scriptures that his enduring the crosse declared his obedience patience humilitie charitie perfection and power in more effectuall maner than without it he could haue done For therein he emptied and humbled himselfe and became obedient vnto death euen to the death of the crosse When hee was reuiled he reuiled not againe when he suffered he threatned not He was oppressed and afflicted yet did he not open his mouth For so he loued vs that he gaue himselfe for vs and greater loue than this hath no man to bestow his life for his friends But God setteth out his loue towards vs that whiles we were yet sinners Christ died for vs. Once then he suffered the iust for the vniust that he might bring vs to God and being consummate through affliction was made the Prince of our Saluation For in that he suffered and was tempted he is able to succour them that are tempted and became a mercifull and faithfull high Priest to make reconciliation for the sinnes of the people And therefore he died and rose againe that he might be Lord of the dead and the liuing and through death destroy him that had power of death euen the diuell On our behalfe it was not needlesse that Christ should die the death of the crosse For besides that we are bought with a price lest we should be our owne euen with the precious bloud of Christ as of a Lambe vnspotted and vndefiled and reconciled to God by the death of his Sonne which couenant is irreuocable being sealed with his bloud by his crosse Christ left vs an example how we should follow his steps and be partakers of his sufferings that when his glorie shall appeare we may be glad and reioyce For it is a true saying if we be dead with him we shall liue with him if we suffer with him we shall raigne with him We are buried then by Baptisme into his death that like as Christ was raised from the dead by the glorie of his Father so we should also walke in newnesse of life knowing this that our olde man is crucified with him that the bodie of sinne might be destroyed that hencefoorth we should not serue sinne He died for all that they which liue should not hencefoorth liue vnto themselues but to him which died for them and rose againe Infinite are the places of Scripture witnessing the causes effects and fruits of Christs death on the Crosse all which this Dreamer must denie or delude before he can defend that Gods purpose in Christes sufferings was only to punish our sinne lying on him For if Gods purposes in appointing Christes Crosse were so acceptable to the Father so honourable to the Sonne and so profitable for man as the Scriptures mention with what face can it be said that God punished his Sonne only for vengeance or that whatsoeuer Christ suffered all his life long specially at his death was verie wrath and vengeance from God properly taken Christ suffered the same things here on earth which the godly likewise do in this life as appeareth by the history of his death and passion and other paines or deaths in Christ the Scriptures doe not specifie Gods counsell in decreeing the Crosse of Christ for mans redemption considering the true desert of our sinne and terrible vengeance prouided for others was varie fauourable and fatherly not ouerpressing the patience of Christes humane nature nor wearying his obedience and had in it farre more gracious and glorious intents and euents than our afflictions can or ought any way to match or approch If then Gods fauour to his elect make their sufferings in this life no wrath nor vengeance nor so much as punishments why should
to trouble the people with that Question and therefore I rested on a knowne and confessed principle of Christian truth and faith that we inherite pollution and death from Adams flesh without resoluing whence the Soule commeth which I did refraine before the multitude to speake of And since by the Scriptures the first Adam was a figure of the second the flesh of Christ giuen for vs must be as able to clense and quicken vs as Adams flesh was to defile and kill vs. To this reason you here pike many quarrels but in the end you slide it of as else where answered Your first quarrell is that I force what I promised to forbeare euen the difficultie whence the Soule of man is deriued As though the grounds of our Faith might be doubted because that Question in former times was vndecided That we deriue flesh from Adam and haue men for the Fathers of our bodies did neuer man yet that was in his right wits call in Question were he Christian or Heretick Iewe Turke or Pagan That likewise wee deriue with our flesh pollution and death from Adam the faith of Christ rightly grounded on the Scriptures doth not suffer vs to stagger at though whence our Soules are giuen vs some haue stood perplexed You thinke it much I should deliuer the one which is the pollution of our flesh professing not to determine the other and make it in me a kind of inconstancie to vrge the propagation of the flesh with her sequels of which no Christian may doubt because I thought it not fit to trouble the people with the deriuation of the Soule But so hath the Church of Christ alwaies done it hath cleerely confessed the deriuation of sinne and death from Adam and made it necessarie for all Christian men so to beleeue though some would not hastily or could not easily resolue the doubt whence the Soule commeth If our Soules arise in Generation from Adam as well as our flesh how can your reason be good by any possibilitie The conceit that our Soules are ingendred together with the seede of our bodies is so grosse and pestilent an error and so repugnant to all authoritie Humane and Diuine and so dissident from dayly experience that I had no cause to make that a Question in Religion or therein to refraine the audience of the people Ex nullo homine generantur Animae Soules are not generated from any man saith Ambrose 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The principall facultie of the soule sayth Clemens Alexandrinus by which we haue discourse of reason is not engendered by proiection of seed Anima vtique nunquam ab homine gignentium originibus prebetur The soule neuer commeth from man in the generation of men sayth Hilarie Ierom vpon those words of Salomon the spirit of man after death returneth to God that gaue it writeth thus Ex quo satis ridendi sunt qui putant animas cum corporibus seri non à Deo sed à corporum parentibus generari Whereby they are worthy to be thorowly derided which thinke soules to be sowen together with bodies and not to be from God but to be generated by the parents of our bodies For since the flesh returneth to the earth and the spirit to God that gaue it IT IS MANIFEST that God is the Father of our soules and not Man And when Ruffinus professed he could not tell how the soule came to be ioyned with the body whether by propagation from Man or infusion from God Ierom replieth If the soule come by propagation then the soules of men which we grant are eternall and the bruit beasts which die with the bodie haue one condition And doest thou maruell that the Christian brethren are scandalized at thee when thou swearest thou knowest not that which the Churches of Christ confesse they know Theodoret in many places giueth the like testimonie The Church beleeuing the diuine Scriptures sayth the soule was and is created as well as the bodie not hauing any cause of her creation from naturall seed but from the Creatours will after the bodie once perfectly made The most diuine Moses writeth that Adams bodie was first made and afterward his soule inspired into him Againe in his lawes the same Prophet plainly teacheth vs that the bodie is first made and then the soule created and infused And blessed Iob spake thus to God Diddest thou not powre me forth like milke and thicken me like curds of cheese thou diddest clothe me with skinne and flesh and compact me with bones and sinewes And when by this Iob had shewed the frame of his bodie to be first made he addeth a thankesgiuing for his soule saying Life and mercie thou laydst with me and thy watchfulnesse preserued my spirit This confession touching the soule and bodie of man the Church hath learned from the diuine Scriptures The same reasons and resolutions he repeateth elsewhere in his fift sermon touching the nature of man Leo the great The Catholike faith doth constantly and truely preach that the soules of men were not before they were inspired into their bodies nec ab also incorporentur nisi ab opifice Deo neither are put into the bodie by any other workeman than God And Austen himselfe who to decline that difficultie how the soule commeth to be infected with originall sinne was the first that made this doubt whether the soule were created and infused or els deriued from the soule though not by the seed of the parents refuseth Tertullians opinion That the soule riseth from the seed of the bodie as peruerse and strange to the Church of Christ They sayth he which affirme soules to be drawen from the parents if they follow Tertullians opinion tooke them to be in some sort bodies corpulentis seminibus exoriri and to rise from the seed of the bodie quo quid peruersius dici potest than the which what can be sayd more peruerse Now in Austens rehearsall of heresies Tertullians assertion That the soule was a kind of bodie is excused as no heresie but his conceit That the state of the soule is propagated by traduction of seed is expresly put amongst his errours From these auncient Fathers swarue not the best of our new writers Bullinger All those other opinions haue beene refuted with sound reasons by the writers Ecclesiasticall and that receiued and auouched for the truest which teacheth the soule to be created of nothing and to be infunded into the bodie from God when the childe hath his perfect shape in his mothers womb And that we are not at this day otherwise created of God than by infunding the soule into the bodie first fashioned Iob is a most plentifull witnesse where he saith Thine hands o God haue made me and fashioned me wholly Didst thou not stroke me like milke and curd me like cheese with skinne and flesh thou coueredst me with bones and sinewes thou
destruction of body and soule Wee must therefore know that God truely and iustly threatned Adam and in him all mankind to be guiltie of all soâ—…ts of death and to bee thereto subiected as to their due if they transgressed against him but this commination neither included execution of all sorts of death on all mankind nor excluded pardon where pleased God onely thence may rightly bee gathered fiâ—…st that all Adaâ—… of spring should bee condemned and subiected to the guilt of all as deseruing all the one no lesse then the other Secondly that some of Adams issue should effectuall feele the sting of all which God allotted to the reprobate Thirdly that euen the elect as well as the reprobate should beare in themselues the monuments of this transgression by the corruption dissolution of their nature though the one should in this life bee reformed by the working of Gods spirit in them and the other bee restored after this life by the Resurrection from the dead All these wee finde performed by God in the trueth of his iudgements and therefore we may be sure they were intended at the time of his threatning And consequently this collection is very true that God threating Adam with these words Thou shalt die the death purposed if Adam transgressed that none of his posteritie should escape the death of their bodies to which God foorthwith punishing sinne irreuocably subiected Adam and all his children as Gods owne words declare when he said to Adam and in him to all men Dust thou art and to dust shalt thou returne The iudges reuenge then for sinne which we deserued and to which we were iustly condemned was temporall eternall death of the body and soule heere and in hell But this was not executed on all because some were freed by the fauour of God in Iesus Christ though none excused from a corporall death which prooueth my position the truer that God neuer released sinne to any no not to his owne Sonne without some kind of death It must not be forgotten that here you renounce all satisfaction for sinne in respect of merite as from Christes soule vtterly If you meane I vtterly renounce all satisfaction for sinne as from the death of Christs soule I easily graunt it and would gladly heare what you can say against it because the soule of Christ as I beleeue could not die the death of spirits But if you conceiue that Christes soule had neither part sense nor merit in the death of his body by which satisfaction for sinne was fully made it is the weamishnesse of your wit to mistake so much and vnderstand so little I attributed all sense of paine as well in death as other wise to the soule of Christ and the death of his body I communicated to his soule by reason it is a separation of the soule from the body not thereby to bee depriued of sense or grace which Christes soule could not be but therein to feele the paine and sting which the death of the body brought with it I tolde you but the leafe before out of Austen that the paine which is called bodily belongeth rather to the soule and that the paine of the flesh is only the offending or afflicting the soule by the flesh Wherefore I made the soule of Christ to be the principall agent in all his meriting and patient in all his suffering and though the soule of Christ could not pay the satisfaction for our sinnes by her death because shee could not die yet that is no impediment but the soule of Christ might haue and had the chiefest paine sense and merit in the death of Christes bodie by which the whole person made full satisfaction for the sinnes of the world And this is so farre from renouncing all merit of satisfaction from the soule of Christ as you conceiue that it ascribeth the whole power and force thereof to the obedience and patience of Christes soule and maketh the bodie the instrument ordeined of God to conuey paine vnto the soule and to lie dead when the soule is departed from it As for Bernards words which I alledge if you did or could tell how they crosse mine I would take the paines to reconcile them now you say they sute not with mine but awake out of your wonted maze and you shall see that I giue the chiefe place and part in the meritorious sacrifice vnto the soule of Christ which you dreame I doe not as also that you neither like nor allow of Bernards words For he declaring the cause and maner why and how Christes minde was afflicted in his passion sayth it was with a double affection of most humane compassion on the one side for the vncomfortable griefe of the holy women on the other for the desperation and dispersion of his disciples These causes you reiect as fond and absurd and now you would seeme to ioyne with Bernards words But you must say of him as you doe of Ambrose and pray that mens authorities may be omitted in this case for all the Fathers of Christes church are vtter strangers or enemies to your new doctrine That nothing may satisfie for sinne but death is not sound the Scriptures doe shewe indeede that Christ should not satisfie without death but they denie not that there are other parts of Christs satisfaction which differ from his death as his bloodshedding his shame his reproches his apprehension his buffeting and besides that pouertie hunger and wearines These doubtlesse yea all other sufferings of Christ what soeuer small or great are satisfactorie and meritorious That all Christes actions and passions were meritorious with God I haue no doubt but that all his sufferings as well naturall as voluntarie did euery one small or great satisfie for sinne This is a speech of yours which except it be well qualified hath in it an whole heape of absurdities and contrarieties For if the least and the first thing that Christ suffered either naturally or voluntarily did satisfie for sinne superfluous were all the rest to our redemption when God was once satisfied And so by his birth or circumcision you graunt a Supersedeas to all his life and death as needelesse to our redemption Then the which what can be more repugnant to the word of God and faith of Christ and euen to your selfe who by this meanes make your hell paines of no importance to our saluation By satisfaction you meane not full satisfaction but that which any way tendeth to satisfaction or is requisite before satisfaction can be made It is easie and often with you to abuse words though you talke much of their proprietie What is Satis in Latine whence to satisfie commeth but enough and what is enough for sinne but after which more is not requisite If then Christ satisfied that is did or paide enough for sinne by the first of his sufferings then all that followed as I inferred were more then enough and consequently
himselfe you make him say the soule is sufficient by it selfe to do the lesse for it is able of it selfe only to thinke to will to desire to dispose Where the word solummodo ONLY which is added to the Verbes following you cut from them with a point and ioyne it to the Pronoune precedent saying it is able of it selfe only meaning without the body thereby to exclude the bodie from all communion and impression of the thoughts which Tertullian before did impart to the bodie And thus by wresting Tertullians words you make him câ—…ntrarie to himselfe because he should not seeme contrarie to you which is the couâ—…se of your vnlearned skill vsed euery where by you when any thing standeth in your way Otherwise Tertullians words are plaine enough after his maner and no way repugnant to that which went before but haue in them rather an exposition what seruice and subâ—…ction the bodie yeeldeth to the soule in sinne without which the soule can accomplish no sinne For though desire cogitation and will are in the soulâ—… as her owne and come from the soule to begin euery sinne yet she can perfâ—… no sinne without her bodie Likewiâ—… your colâ—…ection out of Tertullian that the soule now without the flesh receiuâ—…th iâ—…gement for such actions as of it selfe it was sufficient to doe hath neither any trueth in it nor concordance with your authors sense or words for Tertullian confidently pronounceth that the iudgement of God must be beleeued to be FVLL FINALI and PERPETVALL none of which agree to the iudgement that you pretend for the actions of the soule alone without the bodie It is NOT FVLL because the one halfe of man is absent it is NOT FINALL because an other iudgement and sentence shall follow after it is NOT PERPETVALL because it dureth but till the resurrection when both soule and bodie shall be cast into euerlasting fire it is NOT GENERALL because such of the wicked as liue when Christ shall come to iudge the quicke and dead shall not haue their soules punished apart from their bodies This doctrine therefore is verie false that sinnes mâ—…erely spirituall as you terme them namely Heresies Turcisme and Atheisme shall not be punished in or after the last iudgement when the bodie shall be reunited to the Soule because their punishment the soule alone must suffer since she alone committed them as you say without any consent or communion of her bodie Neither doth Tertullian call this punishment of the soule without the bodie simplie or absolutely IVDGEMENT but the TASTE or SHEVV of iudgement Hilarie saith rightly of it The day of iudgement is the repaying of eternall ioy or paine The time of death in the meane space hath euery one tied to his state dum ad iudicium vnumquemque aut Abraham reseruat aut poena Whiles either Paradise or punishment keepeth euery man for iudgement So Tertullian Cur non putes animam puniri foueri in inferis sub expectatione vtriusque iudicij in quadam vsurpatione candida eius Why shouldest thou not thinke the Soule to be comforted and punished below in the earth vnder the expectation of either iudgement of eternall happinesse or cursednesse in a kind of vsurping and foreshewing thereof That Tertullian here calleth degustans iudicium a foretasting of iudgement but no full finall perpetuall or generall sentence which are the properties of Gods iust iudgement against all sinnes of thoughts words or deeds Tertullian confesseth that the Soule doth not diuide all her works with the ministerie of the flesh and that the Diuine censure doth pursue the onely thoughts and bare Wills of men And therefore he saith Sensus delictorum etiam sine affectibus imputari solent anime The very purposes or desires of sinne without their effects are imputed vnto the Soule When Tertullian speaketh of sinne committed by the Soule alone without the Body or the helpe thereof he meaneth without any EXTERNALL PART of the Bodie concurring thereto as in outward facts when hands or feete or other members of the Body are imployed to bring the sinne to a sensible act and effect Take his owne example in both these places Qui viderit ad concupiscendum iam adulterauit in corde He that seeth a woman to desire her hath committed adulterie in his hart Is any man so childish as to thinke the Soule can see or desire a woman without corporall sense or concupiscence There is then in that case plainly the concurrence of the eyes and affections which are bodily but yet because the Act is not accomplished the sinne remayneth in the hart alone and proceedeth not vnto the DEEDE And so diuiding sinnes into thoughts words and deeds as Saint Austen and other Diuines doe when words and deeds are forborne they often say that men sinne in thoughts alone but this doth not exclude the inward coniunction and communion of the Soule with the Body in sinne which is denied to be corporall because it is not open to the sense Notwithstanding the powers of the Soule vsed therein are permixed with the spirits of the Body which are corporall in comparison of the Soule though spirituall in respect of the grossenes of the flesh in that they are aeriall and approch the nature and purenes of ayre to which the word spirit is vsually applyed So that the diuerse taking of the Body sometimes for the outward masse of flesh subiected to sense sometimes for the inward powers of life and sense tempered with the body causeth this difference of speech in Tertullian and the rest of the fathers who all concurre in this that except the body haue life and sense the Soule can commit no actuall sinne For we must not onely be liuing but awaked and aduised before wee can voluntarily runne into sinne Of sleepe which bereaueth vs of sense I haue spoken before of death which taketh life from vs it is also certaine that thereby sinne ceaseth in vs. He that is dead is freed from sinne saith the Apostle that is sinneth no more so Chrysostome expoundeth it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 He that is dead is deliuered from sinning any more And Ierom. Mortuus omnino non peccat The dead doth by no meanes sinne Ambrose Impius si moriatur peccare desinit The wicked when he dieth ceaseth to sinne Epiphanius In the next world after a man is dead there is no righteousnesse nor repentance 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 nor any workes of sinne For as Hilarie obserueth Decedentes de vita simul de iure decedimus voluntatis When we depart this life we are withall cut off from all libertie of Will Theophylact. The Apostle speaketh thus of euery man For he that is departed from this life is iustified from sinne to wit he is loosed and deliuered from it Our new writers affirme no lesse Bullinger This is a generall Rule the dead doth not sinne at all yea he
soeuer are punishments of our first sinne inflicted on Adam and all his posteritie whiles here they liue is newes to none but to you Saint Austen saith Sunt duo tortores animae Timor Dolor There are two tormentors of the Soule sorrow and feare Now torment without sinne the Soule should neuer haue had Fnding then sorrow and feare in the Soule of Christ by the witnesse of the Gospell though the cause thereof be not expressed I resolued that Christ tasted these which were punishments of sin by their first institution as well as other our infirmities of Soule and Body What followeth hereupon That these were proper punishments inflicted on Christ by Gods very wrath Who saith so You or I They are your words in deed but no way mine It followeth you say euidently from my words As how Christ was not free from SORROVV and feare and these were punishments of our first offence ergo what Ergo the whole Question is granted in a word Ergo fooles might flee but for want of wings The Question is whether Christ died the death of the Soule or suffered the paine of the damned You heare me say Christ sorrowed and feared as also he hungred in the desert and thirsted on the Crosse which likewise came into mans nature as punishments of sinne will it hence follow that hunger and thirst are the paines of hell No more doe sorrow and feare inferre the whole Question except in a mad moode you will auouch that no man can feare or sorrow vnlesse he suffer the paines of the damned and death of the Soule But Christ suffered these as a punishment of our sinnes you will say And so did he those For though euery thing which he suffered did not yeeld satisfaction for our sinnes because death was required to make the full paiment thereof yet euery infirmitie and miserie that he felt consequent to our condition were receaâ—…ed in him as punishments for sinne fastned to our nature and state I feare you meane his holy affections as deuotion to God and compassion to men Were there any sufferings in Christ that were vnholy Would you haue him afraid that he was or should be reiected and condemned of God Or sorrow for the losse of Gods grace and sauour in him selfe That were vnholinesse in deede to be in any sort so affected and without hainous blasphemie you can not suspect that of Christ. But his paine you thinke was infinite Then was his patience and obedience the more religious and pretious in Gods sight wheresoeuer he felt the paine either in Soule or in Body or in both And when you haue said what you can and deuised what you will except you will weaken Christs faith hope and loue in God which without sinne can not be you must leaue feare and sorrow in him to be naturall and holy affections and no way defiled with our sinne The obiect or cause of Christs feare is that you would speake of if you could tell what to make of it but you dare not depart from your couert of Gods very wrath and proper punishment for sinne least you should vtter as many absurditics as syllables That feare and sorrow then were affections in Christ I thinke no man doubteth besides you and that they were in him most holy you dare not deny least to folly you should ioyne heresie and so notwithstanding your feare what I meane sorrow and feare in Christ were most holy affections whatsoeuer the occasions of his feare and sorrow were If they were affections common to Body and Soule how then were they punishments proper to the Sonle I vse not PROPER as you doe for that which is peculiar to the Soule and not imparted to the Body for so no feare nor sorow is proper to the Soule in this life and least of all Christs whose Body no doubt was afflicted with the feare of his minde which as you thinke astonished and ouerwhelmed all the powers of Christs Soule and senses of his Body but I take proper for that which first beginneth in the Soule though it after offend the Body Otherwise the Body feeleth nothing which doth not affect the Soule neither is there any feare or sorrow in the Soule which is not impressed on the Body The sorrow of this world worketh death saith the Apostle which it could not do but by changing and decaying the Body and godly sorrow for sinne though it make a deepe impression in Soule and Body yet the pardon of sinne and comfort of grace doe more reuiue the spirits then sorrow doth quench them and so that hurteth not mans life as worldly sorrow doth But why cite I the Fathers that Christ did not feare either death or hell Forsooth because you and your friends make that the cause of Christs feare and Agonie though now you hide it vnder the name of Gods proper wrath And if it be an absurd impudent and impious assertion to say that Christ trembled or doubted for feare of hell as due to him or determined for him what is it then to defend that he did and must suffer the very paines of the damned and of hell before we could be redeemed If he did not feare it how could he suffer it since he was not ignorant what should befall him A naturall feare you say he had of death and hell A disliking and declining of hell Christ might haue as well for him selfe as for vs that were ioyned in one Body with him but a doubtfull feare what should be the end of him selfe or his sufferings he could not haue The weaknesse of mans nature might also iustly tremble and shake at the might and power of God prouoked with our sinnes which were to be answered and ranfomed by his Body but other feare Christ could haue none and these I trust be religious submissions and not amazed confusions such as you put in the Soule of Christ. You come now to your fortifying of your speciall reasons not speciall for any more excellencie in them then in the rest which you may safely sweare but for that they more specially touched the question as you say though you neuer offered to come necre it To the words of Esay the Prophet by you cited that Christ bare our iniquities and sustained our sorowes themselues I answered shortly the words made nothing to your purpose the text did not expresse whether Christ sustained all or some What now replie you I meane all and euery whit so farre as possibilitie will admit Keepe your meaning to make sawsigies as I aske not after it so I little regard it How prooue you the Prophet meant so Not by his words for they are not generall what other helpe you haue to come by his meaning I would gladly heare The verie text expresseth so much WITH GREAT EMPHASIS Christ bare our sorowes themselues You shew your skill when you come to your proofs for first this is no Emphasis and were it how prooue
of Christ on the Crosse. Now the relatiue following QVOD enim must either be referred to all that went before and so not to malediction apart from the rest or to that which went next before which is the chasticement of our peace And so either way you were ouer bold with your Author to referre his words whether pleased you And farder answere to Ierom there needed none For to no proofe needed no answere And yet what better answere could you haue then for Ieroms meaning since his words are not generall to haue Ieroms conclusion in that very place brought you which best serueth to shew Ieroms intent Of Christs hanging on the Crosse Ierom speaketh noting that to be a cursed kinde of death out of the Apostle which I am farre from denying So doth he of digging Christs hands and feete out of the Psalme and of the rest of Christs wounds and stripes by which we were healed out of the Prophet whom hee expoundeth All which Christ suffered for vs being in deed due to vs for our sinnes Leaue out your falsifying of Ieroms words and sense that whatsoeuer curse was due to vs for our sinnes Christ suffered for vs and I see no cause why Ieroms words should neede any answere That this place of Esaie and the whole Doctrine which I auouch touching these fufferings of Christ may be the better receaued let vs note that the publike Doctrine appointed by Authoritie to be taught throughout England expresseth the same Namely Nowels Catechisme Since the Scriptures which plentifully and plainly teach vs the true price and meanes of our saluation giue no warrant of your new found Doctrine and the whole Armie of Auncient and learned Fathers who could ill instruct the people committed to their charge if they themselues were ignorant of the true meaning of their Creed and Catechisme neuer heard nor thought of your late deuised Redemption by Christs suffering the very paines of hell and the same which the damned doe suffer without any dispensation or Qualification for so it liketh you to speake if you could produce moe new writers of your mind then you doe or can they must pardon me for not admitting any Doctrine touching our Redemption but what I see grounded on the plaine euidence of the Sacred Scriptures and so receaued in the Church of Christ before our Age. I list not to deuise or approue a new Saluation vnknowen till our time and if any man be otherwise minded he shall goe alone for me God grant me to be a member of that Church which hath reuerently receaued and faithfully beleeued the simplicitie of the Scriptures touching our Redemption by the death and bloud of Christ Iesus Howbeit I see many men speake diuersly that meane nothing lesse then your late found hell inflicted by the immediat hand of God on the Soule of Christ. Where then you dreampt in your Treatise as you still doe in your Defence that whosoeuer named the wrath of God in Christs sufferings or called his Crosse a cursed kinde of death was wholy of your side I did in few lines reprooue that folly of yours and since you quoted no speciall words neither out of Master Nowels Catechisme nor out of the Bible appointed publikely to be read in the Churches of this Realme nor out of the Booke of Homilies that were worth the standing on there was no cause why I should wast time to hunt after your meaning If you would haue an answere it was meete you made your Arguments and pressed your Authorities as well as you could and then you should soone see what I said vnto them But as I then foretold so you now performe Your buzzing head no where findeth the wrath of God or horror of Iudgement against our sinne to be apprehended by Christ but you straightway conclude all your conceits from the first to the last These words when I reade them in any man offend not me as they helpe not you except you wrest them after your manner to hide vnder them your new found hell and the rest of your presumptuous and irreligious humours Begin with the Catechisme and see what choise you haue made thence There it is thus taught He payd and suffered the paine due to vs and by this meanes deliuerd vs from the same With Christ as our suretie God dealt as it were with extremitie of law Christ therefore suffered and in suffering ouercame death the paine appointed by the euerliuing God for mans offence What of all this What one worde is here sounding towards the death of the soule or the death of the damned after this life The Catechisme in the very same sentence expressely speaketh of the painefull and reprochfull death which the Iewes inflicted on Christ the manner whereof is orderly described in the next answere before These things sayth the Catechisme the Iewes did vnto him cruelly maliciously and wickedly but Christ willingly of his owne accord suffered ALL THOSE THINGS from the Iewes to appease with this most sweete sacrifice his father offended with mankinde vtque paenas nobis debitas dependeret persolueret atque nos ex illis hoc modo eximeret and to pay and satisfie the punishments due to vs thereby to exempt vs from them Cum Christo quasi sponsore pro nobis sic passo Deus summo quasiiure egit God dealt after a sort seuerely with Christ as with a surety suffering thus for vs but to vs whose sinnes deserued punishments and due paines transtulit in Christum hee transferred on Christ God shewed singular mercie and clemencie All this is plainely referred to the punishments and paines which Christ suffered at the hands of the Iewes by the secret counsell and appointment of God that thereby he might pacifie the wrath of his Father and deliuer vs from the shame paine and death due to our sinnes which God transferred and remoued from vs to Christ that he might suffer them and we be freed both here and hereafter for them Wherein great fauour and mercie were shewed to vs and Christ as it were a Suretie subiected for vs after a sort to the rigour of the Lawe What hurt is there in these wordes if you leaue haling and pulling them from their right sense The Authour of the Catechisme warily forbeareth the generall which you seeke after so greedily and when hee commeth to the places that might seeme harsh he qualifieth them with quasi as it were not meaning to presse those phrases as you doe to the vttermost Wherefore he saith that Christ was quasi sponsor a kinde of suretie suffering for vs and that God dealt with him Quasi summo iure as it were with riger in respect of the lenitie shewed to vs. Which speeches if you poyson them not with your bitter conceits I mislike not so long as they be stretched no further then to SIC passo pro nobis Christ THVS suffering for vs at the hands of the Iewes to which the writer of the Catechisme wisely
redeeming Captiues is either to free Prisoner for Prisoner or to take money for the ransome of libertie neither of which tooke place in our redemption and therefore the common custome of redeeming of men taken in warre hath no likenesse with the redeeming of the world since God tooke no money for our ransome as men vse to do for their Prisoners but the life of his only Sonne for the libertie of his rebellious seruants which men vse not to doe Neither did Christ offer a price proportioned to our value or abilitie but farre excelling our persons and exceeding our power It was therefore a very colde comparison to resemble the freeing of mens bodies for golde and siluer which Captaines esteeme more than they doe Prisoners to the redeeming of their soules by the precious bloud of Christ and such as S. Peter reiected before me in euident words Yee were not redeemed with corruptible things as siluer and golde but with the precious bloud of Christ as of a lambe vndefiled and vnspotted And for you or any man els to say that Christ suffered no lesse nor none other than we should haue suffered or payed no more than we should haue payd is to subiect the soule of Christ to our deserued confusion and condemnation and to euen our persons who are wretched and sinfull men with his who is the true and eternall sonne of God either of which is a sensible defacing of his dignitie innocencie and obedience wholly requisit to our redemption and vtterly impossible to our condition You seeme to inferre that I forsooth doe holde with your opinion that Christ payed the price of our redemption properly to the diuell and not to God If you should leaue belying and falsifying of other mens speeches you should leaue one of your chiefest defences For when you can take no aduantage of my words you sticke not to straine them to your bâ—…nt and as though mistaking and wresting were not wrongs enough you inlarge them and interlace them not only with things neuer intended by me but with plaine contrarieties to that which is conteined in my words To shew how full and perfect our redemption is by the bloud of Christ in my sermons I say The bloud of Christ doth redeeme cleanse wash iustifie and sanctifie the elect it doth pacifie and propitiate the Iudge it doth seale the couenant of mercie grace and glorie betwixt God and man it doth conclude and binde the diuell And lest any man should mistake that I sayd The price was so sufficient that it did not onely pacifie and propitiate the Iudge but conclude and binde the diuell that otherwise had a challenge to vs as to the seruants of sinne and corruption I added It was an iniurie to Christ for vs to thinke his bloud was shed to satisfie the diuell but Christ offered his bloud as a sacrifice to God his Father to satisfie the iustice of God prouoked with our sinnes and yet Satans extreme rage against the person of Christ in conspiring and compassing his death with all contumelie and crueltie turned to his vtter ruine God raising againe the Lord Iesus from death and giuing him power to spoile the kingdome of the diuell in recompence of the wrong which he receiued at Satans hand Thus was the bloud of Christ a price most sufficient for all the world the voluntarie offering whereof by Christ himselfe was the sacrifice that appeased the wrath satisfied the iustice and purchased the fauour of God towards vs and the wrongfull spilling whereof which Christ with patience endured did exclude the diuell euen by Gods iustice from all the challenge that otherwise he had vnto vs. Doth this make the pâ—…ce of our redemption which was the bloud of Christ to be payed properly to the diuell and not to God or rather cleane contrarie that this price was willingly offered and so properly payed to God for the satisfaction of his iustice and by no meanes yeelded or payed to satisfie the diuell but the iniurious shedding thereof by the procurement of Satan did iustly discharge all the members of Christ from the power and challenge of the diuell who afore possessed them by the rule of Gods iustice And to this sense I did restraine the words of Ambrose to make him accord with the rest of the Fathers who with one voice confesse that God would not vse power alone but euen iustice to the diuell in taking man out of his hand and therefore ordered the price of our redemption in such sort that it should not only fully satisfie and pacifie his owne wrath by a willing and precious oblation but iustly exclude all the power and possession of darknesse from the elect by Satans malitious and contumelious attempt against the person of the Sonne of God Neither is this doctrine so strange as you would make it but only to those that neuer waded farther then the mire of their owne inuentions Irenaeus that ancient Father vrgeth this as a râ—…ason why Christ must be man as well as God that the diuell might be conquered by iustice Christ therefore sayth he coupled and vnited man to God Si â—…nim homo non viâ—…isset inimicum hominis non iuste victus esset inimicus For if a man had not vanquished the enemie of man the enemie had not beene iustly vanquished So Theodoret When the Creator saw our nature of it selfe to ioyne with that cruell Tyrant the diuell and to fall into the deepe pit of wickednesse he wrought our saluation wisely and iusâ—…ly For neither would â—…e vse his POVVER alone to free vs nor arme his MERCIE alone against him that had 〈◊〉 mans 〈◊〉 vnder serâ—…itude leâ—…t he should exclaime of this mercâ—… as vâ—…iust but God tâ—…oke a 〈◊〉 with clemencie and adorned with iustice The effect whereof for the whose discourse is somewhat long we may perceiue by the words which Theodoret ascribeth to the person of Christ for thus hee maketh Christ to speake to the diuell Because thou who receiuedst power against sinners 〈◊〉 touched my bodie that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of no sinne forfeit thy power and cease thy tyrannie I 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 all 〈◊〉 from death 〈◊〉 simply vsing the power of a Lord but a righteous power I 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 death I haue suffered death and not subiâ—…ct to death I did admit 〈◊〉 No way guiltâ—…e I was reckened with the guiltie and being free from debt I was numbred 〈◊〉 Sustaining therefore an vniust death I dissolue the death that is deserued and imprisoned wrongfully I free them from prison that were iustly detained And lest you should say of him as you doe of Ambrose and Austen that he doth but play with the figure â—…e â—…airely preuenteth that idle shift of yours in these words Let no man thinke that herein wee dallie or trifle for by the sacred Gospels and doctrines of the Apostles we are taught that these things are so Leo likewise not once or twice publikely teacheth
the Crosse for remission of our sinnes and receiued violent wrong from the diuell in putting him to death In reuenge and recompence whereof as all these fathers confesse God tooke iust cause to make not the Diuine nature which had that right before and could not loose it but mans nature which Satan had by sinne conquered and subiected to himselfe to be in the person of Christ conquerer and Lord ouer Satan and all his power to take whom hee would to make them vessels of mercie and to reserue the rest as vessels of wrath vnto the terrible iudgement of Christ. Wherein these Fathers doe not swarue from the Pophets and Apostles meaning howsoeuer they vse different words that Christ should diuide the spoyle of the mightie because hee powred out his Soule vnto death And that therefore God highly exalted and gaue him a name at which euery knee boweth in heauen earth and hell for that hee was obedient vnto the death of the Crosse. Neither doth Ambrose when he speakerh of a Price required by the diuell or yeelded to the diuell meane any more then a CAVSE SVFFICIENT why the spoyling of Satans kingdome was giuen vnto the manhood of Christ and al the power of darknesse sinne death and hell put vnder his feete For a Price doeth not alway import an honourable condition or a pleasing satisfaction as it signifieth when it is referred to God but as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in Greeke which is properly a Price noteth either Reward or Reuenge so doth pretium in Latine comprise both and generally whatsoeuer is balanced one against the other to be exchanged one with the other is the price of ech other So that it is no dishonour to the bloud of Christ to be so precious that not onely the voluntarie offering therof did fully satisfie the iustice of God displeased with our sinnes but that also the wrongfull shedding thereof which was necessarily to be committed to Satan and his members as the onely fit instruments for such an impietie was a iust occasion why God in requitall of that wrong made the manhood of Christ the subduer and destroyer of Satans kingdome Not that the diuell had any right or command ouer vs against or without the will of God but that hee was so blinded by the wonderfull wisedome of God in reuenge of his subuerting the first man that he was made by shewing his malice against the manhood of Christ an Actor in our Redemption and the Author of his owne subuersion whiles without his knowledge and against his meaning hee was Gods instrument for our saluation and his owne destruction This you can not quietly brooke because you make the chiefest point of our Redemption to bee the killing of Christs Soule with Gods immediate hand and so farre are you from confessing Christ to be vniustly slaine as an innocent that you defend him to be sinfull hatefull defiled with our sinnes and hanged by the iust sentence of the Law and the diuel to be onely a minister and executioner of Gods iudgement against Christ. Yea your similitude if you stand to it of prisoners taken in warre and your ransome yeelded to God as to an enemie for his captiues setteth iarres if not warres betweene the first and second person in Trinitie by making God the Father an enemie both to the Redeemer and Prisoner For among men whose vse and custome you presse in this place the detainer is alwayes a professed enemie to the redeemer since confederates doe not vse to take or detaine ech others subiectes or seruants but open enemies The Ransomer then and the prisoner haue one and the same enemy and consequently by your resemblance God is an enemie as well to Christ as to vs. The proofe which you bring to shew God to be an enemie to his elect out of the fift of S. Matthew is impertinent to the cause and diâ—…erent from the trueth For besides that the new writers as Erasmus in his paraphrase Bucer Bullinger Musculus Caluine Gualterus in their commentaries vpon this chapter and the old as Tertullian Ierom Chrysostome Hilarie Theophylact Euthymius and others with one consent referre this admonition of Christ to men that are Aduersaries Iudges and Iaylours here in this life which is wide from your purpose your making of God to be an Aduersarie in that place acknowledgeth a superiour Iudge to God to whom the Aduersarie must by complaint not by command deliuer vs and your comparing the deuill to an obedient minister of the Law excuseth him from being a rebell to God and an accuser of men But if you would speake or thinke as the Scriptures leade which you pretend but not perfourme you should finde in them though not in this precept that the deuill is by a speciall kind of notation called our ENEMIE as indeede he is the ancient eger and continuall supplanter and impugner of man and that God to his elect is and euer was a gracious and louing father when he was most displeased with their sinnes and euen then so carefull and mindfull of their saluation that he gaue them his owne Sonne when they were his Enemies to dâ—…e for them and by that death to make satisfaction and purgation of all their sinnes which was not the part or worke of an Enemie how much soeuer his holines then did and still doth dislike their vnrighteousnesse And since the punishment of our sinnes was layd vpon Christ and we healed by his stripes if therein God professed Enmitie to his elect and executed it all on Christ the deuill being but the Iaylor and Executioner or as else where you say an Instrument onely and by that parable not to be blamed for doing no more then he is commaunded by the Iudge your wholesome doctrine commendeth the deuill as an obedient seruant and maketh God an Inferiour and yet an Enemy to the manhood of Christ. Which if you did not meane you must temper your words and proofes better and learne not so egerly to reiect euery phrase in an ancient Father that pleaseth not your palate when your selfe spake and wrote so licentiously and dangerously But I fit your similitude you say to your desire farther then your selfe did expresse because I say the Ransomer is not bound to be Prisoner for his Redeemed but may satisfie the enemie by money or otherwise You are a happie man that euery thing fitteth your desire You positiuely teach that Christ our Redeemer must suffer the selfe same paines of hell which we should haue suffered The reason you yeeld for it is a poore similitude drawen from the common vse and custome of men in redeeming their captiues taken in warres I replyed that your similitude prooueth no such thing because amongst men the Ransomers neede not nor doe not sustaine the same seruitude and imprisonment which the captiues doe and must if they be not redeemed Yet the whole price you say must be payd by
a true and corporall punishment appointed by God for sinne though mans error inflict it on innocents or true repentance abolish the rest that would follow after this life if God were not reconciled vnto vs. In the wicked then which persist in their mischieuous purposes without repentance your reason taketh place that hanging to them is a part of that true and terrible curse the whole whereof shall be executed on them for their sinnes but in repentants it is starke false and in Christ of whom this question riseth it is irreligious and impious to say that he suffered the whole curse of the Law prouided for sinne or the death of the soule and of the damned which is properly due to sinners Now vnderstand Chrysostome thus as we before haue distinguished the punishment of Christ and of the damned and then we differ not Suppose Chrysostome to teach falsly and talke absurdly as you doe and then you may soone bring him to weare your badge but leaue him at libertie to tell his owne tale and hee is farre enough from your follies He sayth they were dâ—…erse curses in Christ and in the damned to signifie diuerse manners of one and the same curse in Nature He speaketh not of the damned at all he speaketh of the whole people of the Iewes which were vnder the curse of the Law for sinne till they were thence deliuered by Christ which the damned neuer were nor shall be His words are The people were in danger of another curse which saith Cursed is euery one which abideth not in the things written in the booke of the Law For not one of them had obserued the whole Law Christ then since he was not subiect to the curse of transgression admitted this curse to hang on the Crosse in steede of that to loose the people from their curse Chrysostome truely learnedly and consonantly to the rest of the ancient Fathers distinguisheth two kindes of EVILS or CVRSES incident to men which are sinne and the punishment of sinne The one is an vniust action pleasing man but displeasing God the other is a iust passion pleasing God but displeasing man Mala dicuntur Delicta Supplicia The OFFENCE and the REVENGE are both called â—…uils sayth Tertullian Duo sunt genera malorum peccatum poena peccati there are two sorts of Euils sayth Austen Sinne and the punishment of sinne For by Gods prouidence ruling all things as man doth the euill which he will so he suffereth the Euill which he will not Then sinne is not onely euill before it be punished but a greater euill then the punishment is since it is an euill in his owne nature repugnant to the righteousnesse of God Now as God is all good and therefore all blessed so sinne forsaking God falleth from goodnesse and so from blessednesse and is consequently more accursed with God then punishment is and ought so to be with men if they be rightly aduised as being the cause and continuance of their punishment For accursed signifieth as well detested and depriued of blessednesse as subiected to miserie or deuoted to destruction So that sinne in it selfe is a curse with God that is hated and detested of God and depriuing man of all communion and participation with the fountaine of blessednesse though no punishment did follow Yet because men would with neglect and despâ—…ght of God abide and reioyce in their wickednesse if sense of grieâ—…e and paine did not force them to feele theiâ—… wretchednesse therefore the wisedome and iustice of God pursueth such as dwell and delight in their sinnes with sharpe and bitteâ—… plagues that locâ—…ing on their miserie they may timely repent or eternally lament their obstinacie To these two kinds of curses Chrysostomes wordes and proofes doe leade The whole people were not damned as you deuoutly dâ—…eame but they had sinned and so were subiected to the danger of Gods displeasure foâ—… sinne and of his indignation against sinne From this Christ was free for he did not sinne 〈◊〉 was guile found in his mâ—…uth as Chrysostom concludeth out of the Scriptures Since then Christ was not subiect to the curse of Transgression he admitted â—…other Curse euâ—…n the punishment of sinne which is a curse also for sinne though of an other Nature then the committing of sinne by one to dissolue the otheâ—… that is by his owne paine to abolish the guilt of our sinne Chrysostomes woâ—…ds are as plâ—…ne as his proofes The curse of transgressing was another curse and not the 〈◊〉 which Christ suffered Yea Christ might not be subiected to that curse to which the people were for transgressing the law but changed that for another and so loosâ—…d their curse 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 another and not the same be as forciâ—…le woâ—…ds to shew different natures and persons as any the Greeke tongue hath and your shift of diâ—…erse degrees in the same nature is a childish toy since much and little like and vnlike sâ—…ew diuers degrees or measures in one nature but another and not the same thing directly noteth the substance or nature to be diuers Austen on whom you triumph is stretched beyond his meaning he deaâ—…eth against a Mainichâ—…e who denied that Christ had true human flesh Now he proueth that Christ truely died because the Apostle saith he was made a curse for vs in that he hanged on a Tree I haue cause to content my selfe that so leaâ—…ned and religious a Father as Saint Augustine was so highly reuerenced in the Church of God did more then twelue hundred yeers since in his conflicts with Hereticks refute the greatest part of your positions as repugnant to the faith of Christ and the soundnesse of the Sacred Scriptures And I thinke few men so foolish as in the grounds of our Redemption and saluation by Christ to reiect the Doctrine which he taught as false and receaue your scambling conceits as true And in my Iudgement you were best to take heed least if the resolutions which Saint Austen and other Catholike Fathers made against Heretickes disprooue your new found faith you be taken tardy with bringing Baggage into the Church of Christ long since condemned and banished from the Creede of all Christians What Saint Austen proueth you are no fit reporter except you did read more attentiuely and iudge more sincerely For did you euer peruse the words wrong course in so wise a Father if he meant purposely to prooue against the Manichees that Christ truely died for vs and not in shew onely as they supposed to ouerskip all the Testimonies and circumstances of Christs true death recorded in the Scriptures as his giuing vp the Ghost Pilates examining and the Centurions confessing the truth thereof as also the Souldiers perceiuing him alreadie dead and so not breaking his lâ—…gges but pearcing his side with a speare and the* gazing and watching of his â—…nemies and of the whole multitude ouer him
will not distinguish what death is in it selfe euen to the godly and what is consequent after it by Gods mercie towards his Saints And heerein I say you want both trueth and iudgement for things are to be named by their natures and not by the sequents which often God sendeth cleane contrarie to the purposes and practises of Satan and his members Tyrannie shall it be no crueltie because it maketh Martyrs Sinne shall it not be displeasing to God because it humbleth the faithfull by repentance The corruption of mans nature shall it not be sinne because thereby God exerciseth his Saints to watchfulnesse and prayer Euen so the death of the bodie which God at first inflicted on all his Elect for sinne shall it be no punishment for that God doth comfort his in death and reward them after death I affirme death to the godly is no curse properly And I aâ—…irme that when you can not tell how to start from the force of truth you do nothing but lie or flie to your phrases of proper and verie which here as in other places do you no good In the fifteenth line of this page you say the death of of the godly may IN NO SORT be called a Curse or Accursed In the sixteenth whiles you offer to proue those words you confesse them to be false Death to the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 no Curse properly you say but a benefit and aduantage then improperly death is a curse and before you sayd It may in no sort be called a Curse to them If in no â—…rt then neither properly nor improperly What then is that Enemie that must be destâ—…oyed a cursing or a blessing Can it be an enemie to Christ and yet a blessing to the godly I cannot better refell your folly then S. Austen doth in this verie case If death be a bleâ—…ing to the bodies of the godly neuer desire to be deliuered from it what nâ—…ed you beleeue or loue the resurrection of the flesh which is the destruction of death in the bodie it death be a benefit to the bodie But if this be repugnant to Christian religion then hath death in it euen a shew of Gods curse on the bodie for sinne which must be destroyed before Christ can fully reigne in all his Saints Yet is it to the godly no curse properly The heigth of your learning hangeth on the helpe of this word PROPERLY we yet came to no point in all our defence but when you see your selfe pressed you straightwayes post to PROPER and VERY and yet you neuer define either nor take the paines to expound your selfe lest you should be taken with open heresie and blasphemie in applying one and the same curse properly and truely to Christ and the damned You say I am to young a Doctour to controll Saint Austen herein and I say you are a Doctour not olde enough to prooue Austen contrarie to me in this point A farre younger then I am will soone discerne by that I haue sayd that S. Austen is repugnant in this point to your proper and verie nouelties for where you say Death to the godly may in no sort be called a curse S. Austen thus expoundeth Christes words to the godlie Feare not those which kill the bodie as if Christ had sayd Nolite timere male dictum mortis corporalis quod temporaliter soluitur Feare not the CVRSE of a bodily death which in time is dissolued And so when he resolueth Moses had none other meaning in this sentence Cursed is euerie one that hangeth on a tree then if he had sayd Mortall is euerie one that hangeth on a tree Poterat enim dicere maledictus omnis mortalis aut maledictus omnis moriens For Moses might haue sayd Cursed is eâ—…ry mortall man or cursed is euerie man that dieth If Moses might truely haue so sayd as it is euident by S. Austens position then I trust death in some sort may be iustlie called a Curse euen to the godlie But S. Austen sayth that the death of the bodie is good to the good and euill to the euill That speech S. Austen sayth may be tolerated not in respect of death it selfe which is euill but of the mercies of God which follow the faithfull after their deaths His words which you skippe as your maner is to do when any thing maketh against you are Dici potest It may be sayd But vpon that speech he presently moueth this question in the beginning of the next Chapter If the death of the bodie be good to the good quo modo poterit obtineri quòd etiam ipsa sit poena peccati how may it be resolued that it is also the punishment of sinne His resolution you did not reade or not regard because it resisted your fansie but thereby the Reader may see what credit is to be giuen to your words when you crake of Fathers We must confesse sayth Austen that the first men were so created that if they had not sinned they should haue tasted no kinde of death but the verie same being the first sinners were so punished with death that whatsoeuer should spring from their root should be held subiect to the same punishment And discussing the question proposed more at large he resolueth Sic per ineffabilem Dei misericordiam ipsa pâ—…na vitâ—…orum transit in arma virtutis fit meritum iusti etiam supplicium peccatoris So by the vnspeakeable mercie of God the punishment of vice becommeth the armour of vertue and the reuenge of a sinner is made the merit of the iust Non quia mors bonum aliquod facta est quâ—… antea malum fuit sed tantam Deus fidei praestitit gratiam vt mors quam vitae constat esse contrariam instrumentum fieret per quod transiâ—… in vitam NOT THAT DEATH IS BECOME ANY GOOD which before was euill but so great fauour God hath yeelded vnto faith that death which most certainly is contrarie to life is made an instrument for the good by which they passe vnto life And to make men the better to vnderstand the effect of his speech he bringeth an example out of the Scriptures where the law is called the strength of sinne Why sayth he rehearse â—…e this Because that as the Law is not euill when it increaseth the lust of sinners so death is not good when it augmenteth the glorie of the sufferes but as the vniust doe eâ—…lly vse not onely euill but also good things so the iust doe well vse not onely good but euen things that be euill Hence commeth it that the wicked vse the Law ill though the Law be good BONI beâ—…è moriantur quamuis sit mors malum and the good die well though death be euill I haue toucheâ—… at large Saint Anstens reasons and resolutions in his owne words because the Reâ—…der should the more cleerely conceiue him and the discourser see him contrarie to his conceits euen in this point
owne mouth to bruize the Serpents head before death was inflicted on Adam and his of-spring And therefore the punishment of mans sinne following could extend no farder in the Elect then to the death of the Body vnlesse you will make Gods punishment repugnant to his promise of Christ made before to his Elect which were to charge God with Inconstancie And therefore either the death of the Body was neuer any punishment of sinne in Adam which is repugnant to the Scriptures and the full consent of all Diuines old and new or else it resteth still the same to the Elect which it was at first when it was inflicted on them in the person of their first Father Indeede the promise of Christ to the faithfull brake of the sequence of eternall death which in the wicked is coherent to the death of their Bodies and that made God in his Iudiciall sentence pronounced against Adams sinne to comprise no more but Adams returne to dust for that he meant no more to his Elect though he would suffer death to haue his full force against the Bodies and Soules of the wicked both in this world and in the next for euer As for the Saluation of the faithfull before Christs comming in the flesh I see not which way that should be endangered by their afflictions in this life It is written of Lazarus dying before Christ that in his life time he receiued euill and therefore after death he was comforted So that their chasticement in this life which was a moderate and fatherly correction and punishment of their sinnes could be no impediment to their saluation but worke rather in them that were patient in their troubles as it doth in vs an excellent and eternall waight of glorie For in that the Iudgement of God began here in this life with them their humbling themselues vnder the mightie hand of God with true Repentance of their sinnes and full assurance by faith that in the promised Seede their sinnes should be pardoned caused God of his mercy to turne their â—…eauinesse into ioy and in due time to exalt them Further you except against me touching Innocents and Martyrs executions who I say are most blessed If you meane their Soules are most blessed I said as much before you if you respect their patience and loue in laying downe their liues for the truth I make no doubt the death of Gods Saints is precious in his sight But if the suffering of death were a blessing and aduantage as you would haue it it were no such thankes with God to taste of his blessings for his name sake The greatnesse of their reward sheweth the shaâ—…pnesse of their conflict with the sting and smart of death which because they refuse not for Christes cause their patience is the more precious in Gods sight but this doeth not prooue the corruption of their bodies turned to dust to bee any blessing but rather an enemie that must be destroyed before their bodies shall enioy the true blessing of immortall glorie that is reserued for them The holy men are in trueth most glorious and blessed in them If you speake of their bodiâ—…s you speake falsly and directly against the Scripture which expresâ—…ely saith They are sowâ—…n in corruption and dishonour but they shall be raised in incorruption and dishonour and what can be more repugnant to the trueth or more reprochfull to the resurrection from the dead then to say that corruption in the bodies of the Saints is most glorious and blessed The Saints and Martyrs can not be properly cursed and properly blâ—…ssed too in any measure Can you see that in the members of Christ and can you not see so much in Christ himselfe You defend with might and maine that Christ was properly and truely accursed and that he was also truely and properly blessed except you will bee worâ—…e then a Turke you may not denie For euen his manhood was personally ioyned with his Godhead and more abundantly blessed then any Martyr can be as hauing in him the fulnesse of blessing for him selfe and vs all How hangeth then this not onely monstrous but impious Assertion of yours together that the Soule of Christ was truely and properly most abundantly blessed and most properly cursed at one and the same instant You will come in with your two countenances and conditions his owne and ours but in vaine doe you salue a manifest contrarietie and impictie with countenances Christ was truely accursed in no condition or countenance since he was most blessed in himselfe and the spring of all blessing to vs. The Soules of the Martyrs are not blessed vnlesse their bodies be blessed also and free from the true curâ—… although you seeme to denâ—…e this point Of the TRVE curse â—…aide on the bodies of Martyrs I spake neuer a word and therefore that is no vncouth Assertion of mine as your phrase is but an impudent fiction of yours that thinke best to belâ—…e the trueth when you cannot otherwise preuaile against it I said not a woâ—…d moâ—…e then Saint Austen said before me Maledictus omnis moriens Accursed is euerie one that dieth And when the godly are so streightned that they must either commit Idolatrie or suffer Martyrdome euen in that case of Martyrs Saint Austen saith Elâ—…gendum est maledictum in corporiâ—… morte quo maledicto ipsum corpus in Resurrectione liberabitur deuit andum autem maledictum in animae morte ne cum suo corpore in aeterno igne damnetur A Christian when these two are proposed must chuse the curse of a bodily death from which curse the body shall be freed in the Resurrection and hee must shunne the curse of the death of the Soule least that be together with the body condemned to euerlasting fire And to prooue this to be non Anicularis malâ—…dictio an olde wifes curse as the Manichees called it but a propheticall prediction hee giueth sound reasons to all that list not to moâ—…ke and elude the trueth as you doe Morsipsa ex maledicâ—…o Death it selfe came from the curse that was laide on all mankinde for sinne Maledictum est omne peccatum siâ—…e ipsum quod sit vt sequatur supplicium siâ—…c ipsum supplicium quod alâ—…o modo vocatur peccatum quâ—…a fit ex peccato Accursed is all sinne whether it bâ—…e the fact deseruing punishment or the punishment it selfe which is after a sort called sinne because it is cauâ—…d by sinne Which words though you afterward idlely abuse yet are they sound and consonant to the Scriptures Of sinne there is no question but that is in it selâ—…e truely accursed as being the roote and cause of all Gods curses vpon men and Angels where it is not remitted and howsoeuer of mercie God doeth paâ—…don it vnto his Elect yet hee hateth their sinnes in such sort that either sinne must die in them by true and hartie repentance or they must perish with
purged that we might be made the righteousnesse of God in him by the remitting of all our sinnes and the restoring vs to the fauour of God and graunt these words that our sinnes were imputed to him that his righteousnesse might be imputed to vs which yet are not the Apostles words where is the proportion you so confidently speake of that as we are made his righteousnesse so he was made our sinne This comparison vnlimited it notorâ—…ously false and were it true it euerteth all your frame The full and euerlasting reward of his righteousnesse is allotted to vs. Was the wages of our sinnes so imposed on hiâ—… His righteousnesse is now imputed to vs because it shall be perfectly inherent in vs and is presently sealed vnto vs by the spirit of adoption whereby our harts are inherently sanctified Were our sinnes so imputed to him that they should afterward perfectly possesse him To vs God imputeth Christs righteousnesse without our consents and often without our knowledge as in children baptized Were out sinnes imputed to Christ without his vnderstanding or will In vs God hateth out sinnes and ioueth our persons for Christes sake To keepe this comparison will you say that God hated the righteousnesse of Christ and loued the sinne imputed to him for our sakes And were there not so many differences in the maner of Christes hauing our sinnes and our hauing his righteousnesse as there are yet are you no whit the nearer For as we no way deserue to be his righteousnesse so he no way deserued to be our sinne And though God forget all our sinnes and putteth them vtterly out of his sight when he washeth vs from them yet God did not wholly cast Christs righteousnesse out of his remembrance when he did punish him for our sinnes Christ therefore tooke our sinnes from vs and layed them on himselfe but he doth not take his righteousnesse from himselfe to giue it to vs but doth impart it to vs as hauing enough for himselfe and for vs because he is God as well as man So that all our sinnes were imputed to him to make vs iust yet all his righteousnesse is not imputed to vs to make him a finner as you would haue him but he bare the punishment of our sinnes which the Apostle calleth sinne that we might receiue the reward of his righteousnesse not in cogitation or computation only but in deed and execution For euen in this life where we aâ—…e continuall sinners we haue no righteousnesse but what is ioyned with the reall remission of our sinnes pardoned for Christes sake and with the grace of Gods spirit purifying our hearts by faith and inflaming them with the loue of Gods goodnesse and mercie towards vs. Our righteousnesse then in Christ hath more then imputation though imputation be also needfull it hath the seale of Gods spirit possessing our hearts and the inherent graces of faith and loue which God accepteth at our hands and thereby maketh vs partakers of Christes righteousnesse for that we beleeue in the name of his only Sonne Whereas you say the Fathers haue two good senses of the Apostles words Christ was made sinne for vs the one That God made Christ a sacrifice for sinne the other That God vsed him As he doth sinners what is there in both these which we acknowledge not Yea what is this later but the very same point which we vrge You admit both and yet vnderstand neither as you ought to doe If you acknowledge the death and bloud of Christ to be the true and onely sacrifice for sinne then must you acknowledge these three things in it that it was pleasing to God vndefiling the Priest and elensing the sinner If as well the oblation as the offerer were holie and acceptable to God why doe you defend that Christ was sinnefull and hatefull in his sufferings for sinne which was the sacrifice that he offered for sinne If it clensed the offender how could it deâ—…ile the sacrificer who was the Mediatour to God for abolishing sin you will haue one and the same sacrifice to be holie acceptable and auaileable for sinne and yet to be defiled hatefull and accursed with sinne you may call lighâ—… darknesse and good euill and thinke the prophet denouneeth no woe to you because your inuentions are priuiledged But to mine vnderstanding and I thinke to your Readers these plaine contrarieties of holy and defiled acceptable and hatefull righteous and sinnefull in one and the same sacrifice and sufferer at one and the same time will not stand together but you must be colted or cursed in your warbling conâ—…its It is nothing else in all this Question that we held but that God vsed Christ our Redeemer and Suertie As he doth sinners so farre As possibilitie admitteth You neuer want an As to helpe you at need You heare the Fathers say for of their sense you speake that God permitted the wicked to reproch his Sonne and to put him to a shamefull and cruell death as if he had beene the vilest malefactor amongst the multitude thence you collect that God punished Christ As he doth sinners that is with the greatest and sorest torments of death and damnation that are in this life or in hell But this As doth rather plunge you into the mire then plucke you out of it and therefore you adde so farre as possibilitie admitteth Now how farre that is by whom shall we be tried by the Scriptures and Fathers or by your shallow conceits and fancies you haue beene told often enough that where the Scriptures make three kinds of death due to sinners and for sinne the death of the bodie the death of the soule and the second death which is the euerlasting torment of bodie and soule in hell fire and all the learned and Catholike Fathers hold the same confession the two last deaths spirituall and eternall are not onely impossibilities but horrible blasphemies to be ascribed to the person of Christ and to either of these you would not yet speake one word but by stealth Now you haue gotten hold of a double As saying that God vsed Christ As he doth sinners so farre As possibilitie admitteth you thinke your selfe safe and out of this As you will frame vs new deaths of the soule a new Hell and all the same which the damned doe suffer in substance not in circumstance But we haue long looked for your proofes and till they come tie vp your As to serue you for another turne For this the Fathers are not silent if I were so ambitious as you in producing multitudes of men Only Cyprian and Athanasius and Austen shall content me in this Whether my care to teach nothing touching matters of Faith but what I see confirmed by the Scriptures and confessed by the writings of the Auncient Fathers may be called Ambition I leaue it to the Reader my paines haue beene the more therein which if any condemne I referre the Cause to him
promised to deliuer vs. And our debt being eternall damnation of bodie and soule to hell fire you will tie Christ to paie our debts without dispensation or qualification except it please you with your possiâ—…ilities to releeue him And the law to which you will haue him bound was first that which inflicted penalties on vs for sinne then it was the Gospell which shewed vs our saluation in Christ and now it is the eternall decâ—…e of God whereby Christ was appointed to be our Sauiour And all this impiety and inconstancie you build neither on Scripture nor Father but vpon the similitude of a Suertie taken from Westminster Hall where men mistrusting ech others words and willes take bands with Sureties to haue their due payed them But know you good Sir that God had no distrust of his Sonnes will and loue to vs nor doubt of his abilâ—…ty to performe our redemption and therefore bound him not as you desperately drâ—…ame when he offered to be our Redeemer but accepted his loue which could not faile and his will which could not change making no decree for the maner of our redemption but what the Sonne himselfe with the rest of the persons in Trinitie liked for the preseruing of his owne diuine iustice and shewing of his owne exceeding loue towards vs. Then as it is certaine by the Christian faith the Sonne of God could not be bound to helpe or redeeme vs being his enemies nor to humble himselfe to the forme of a seruant but only was thereto led with the loue of his Fathers glorie and of our safetie so it is euident that the same person after he had assumed our nature vnto him could not be forced with any necessitie nor vrged with any commandement against his will but the humane will of Christ was so guided and directed by his diuine will and power that it readily and gladly submitted it selfe in all things to the will and pleasure of his Father which indeed was also the will of his owne diuine nature forsomuch as the three persons in Trinitie haue all one the same glorie and maiestie will and worke And therefore aswell the Scriptures as the Fathers do plainly testifie that euen Christes manhood had power enough giuen it to withstand all that was offered him by men or diuels but that for our sakes the person would submit himselfe to the seruitude infirmitie miserie and mortalitie of our condition therein to comfort vs thereby to redeeme vs and therefrom to deliuer vs which he could not do but in his humane nature since his Godhead was impassible This fredome and power not to be bound nor compelled to any of his sufferings we must reserue to the person of Christ that his obedience might be meritorious and voluntarie not only at his first consenting thereto which is this Defenders drift but in his continuall persisting therein and finall performing thereof that is in all and euery part of those things which the wisedome of God thought requisit for our redemption When you haue done all those things sayth our Sauiour which were appointed you say We are vnprofitable seruants we haue done that which was our bounden duetie to dâ—…e Will you bring Christ within the compasse of an vnprofitable seruant by doing that he was appointed and bound to do Without thy liking sayth Paul to Philemon I would do nothing that thy good should not be as it were of necessitie but willingly If God so much respect the willingnesse of the heart that he will not haue men tied with necessitie to doe good shall we thinke that he would binde his owne Sonne to the obedience of a seruant and not suffer his submission to be voluntary that it might be acceptable and thanks worthy to God And to what purpose lay you these bands on Christ If he were willing there needed no bands besides the bands of loue which is the surest hold that God requireth of vs. If he were not willing his vndertaking our cause was neither loue to vs nor obedience to God who loueth a cheerefull giuer but a compulsion or exaction which ouerthroweth the very ground-worke of Christes submission and our saluation To preuent all lewd and wicked surmises of bonds duetie or necessitie to be layd on the Sonne of God in redeeming vs the Scriptures exactly say that Christ loued his Church and gaue himselfe for her that is he was led by loue and by no compulsion noâ—… commandement to giue himselfe for her which otherwise by no meanes could be exacted of the Sonne of God And therefore he EMPTIED HIMSELFE taking the forme of a seruant and HVMBLED HIMSELFE becomming obedient vnto death euen the death of the Crosse to assure vs it was loue that caused him to giue himselfe that is at first to offer and after to yeeld himselfe for vs which otherwise could by no decree nor band be imposed on him nor required of him And this libertie to do and suffer of his owne accord euerie thing which he in his diuine wisdome together with the Father and the Holy Ghost thought meet for mans saluation the person of Christ kept vntouched euen to his death in his death and after his death himselfe most plainly professing so much of himselfe in the laying downe of his soule that none tooke it from him but he layd it downe of himselfe and would in three dayes raise vp againe the temple of his bodie by taking his soule vnto him And this was the chargâ—… and appointment that he receiued of his Father to do and suffer these things of himselfe that is without any band force or necessitie but only of his owne accord and voluntarie obedience to that which was his Fathers will because it was first his owne good will and offer and so accepted and decreed to the whole Trinitie as a most sufficient amends for mans disobedience and a most iust and full desert of mans adoption and saluation by the meanes and merits of Christ Iesus For which cause the Scripture resolueth vs that Christ loued vs and gaue himselfe for vs to be an offering and a sacrifice of a sweet sauour vnto God that is a most willing free and acceptable seruice and satisfaction to God for all our sinnes The Catholike Fathers were very carefull to continue this Doctrine in Christs Church Nos Dominum verum hominem suscepisse credimus in ipso visibiliter inuisibilem apparuisse in ipso inter homines conuersatum fuisse in ipso ab hominibus humana pertulisse Totum autem hoc nulla fecit necessitate We Christians saith Austen beleeue that the Lord tooke vpon him the true Nature of Man and therein did visibly appeare to men when he was before inuisible and in his Manhood conuerâ—…ed amongst men and in the same sâ—…ffered the tâ—…ings which men may offer to men All this did â—…e with no necessitie To shew what Christ suffered from men Austen addeth The word was made
flagitiorum maculas morte voluntaria suo innocente sanguine luisse atque eluisse It is euident that Christ admitted receaued and suffered of his owne good will the paines due to mans wickednesse but not due to him and with a voluntarie death and his owne innocent bloud did wash and clense the spots of our filthinesse And againe It is euident the Iewes had not in their power these things or times sed sua ipsum voluntate nulla vâ—… coactum harc mortem pro nostra salute oppetijsse but of his owne accord without anie câ—…action Christ died this death for our saluation Where also this is set downe as a true position that eligendae mortis optio penes ipsum fiâ—…t the election and direction of his death was left to his owne power and choise which the whole Church of Christ hath hitherto ascribed to the power and will loue and mercie of the Sonne of God reiecting your bands and obligations lately deuised to barre the freedome and abridge the power of the Sauiour of the worlde because you would tie him to the paines of hell You see not you will say how these Fathers make against you None otherwise but that they directly denie that which you affirme Christ you say though of good will he was at first content so to doe yet after became bound to the Law to pay our debts Now he that is bound must needs obey and so you lay on Christ not onely a necessity but also a dutie These Fathers with one consent disclaime al necessitie in the death of Christ and consequently they confesâ—…e he was free from all bands and debts but in loue and mercie as a free Redeemer he would giue himselfe for vs which was a farre greater price then we were woorth or could owe. And these multitudes of men as you call them though they be not of equall strength with the word of God which is the touchstone of all trueth yet doe they plainely prooue that you innouate the faith of Christes Church which in their seuerall ages they all beleeued and professed and for their faith they haue the manifest wordes of our Sauiour that none tooke his soule from him but he laid it downe of himselfe and the witnesse of the Apostle that Christ for loue gaue himselfe for vs which argueth that he was vrged thereto with no violence necessitie nor dutie much lesse was thereto bound and you for your deuice haue the curiositie of creditours the discredite of debtours of whom men require Suerties with bands because they trust not their words and promises much lesle their willes and dispositions But this iealousie in the Sonne of God is hainous blasphemie therfore there could be no cause to bind him as there could be no distrust of him since our miserie and his mercie were motiues enough to incline and continue his loue though we leaue him at his full libertie without all seruitude or necessirie Gods decree and his owne good will was that he should satisfie and pay none otherwise for vs then so as he did There can be no question but in creating condemning and redeeming man the Father the Sonne and the holie Ghost had one and the same will and decree yet except with the Arian heretickes you make an inequallitie of the persons in the most blessed Trinitie you can impose no seruice nor suffering on the Sonne of God by any decree but what must come from his owne good pleasure offer and perfourmance And that the Scriptures euerie where imply when they say Christ loued vs and gaue himselfe for vs that is he FIRST of loue towards vs OFFERED to serue and suffer in our places and AFTER of the same loue submitted himselfe to performe his purpose and promise of our saluation So that Gods decree was no iniunction nor ordinance that his Sonne should doe it but an ACCEPTATION of his Sonnes loue and mercie towards vs and an APPROEATION that it was a most sufficient recompence for all the transgressions of men And the Father is said to giue his Sonne for vs not that he loued vs better then he did his Sonne whom he infinitely loueth as himselfe and for whose sake onely he accepteth vs not that he vsed any authoritie or power ouer his Sonne to appoint him to this seruice but that knowing the strength and sufficiencie of his Sonne to be as his owne and seeing his loue and mercie towards vs which was common to him with the rest of the persons in that most glorious Trinitie the Father out of the same loue towards vs thought it fitter to accept the offer of his Sonne then that we should perish And therefore though the Father loued his Sonne as himselfe yet he was content his Sonne should beare our burden which we could not without euerlasting destruction and his Sonne could with exceeding honour and admiration of his mercie humilitie obedience and patience If you slide from the Godhead of Christ to his manhood to binde that because it was a Creature and not the Creator by diuiding the person of Christ you runne into the heresie of Nestorius condemned in the generall Counsell of â—…phesus and yet releiue not your selfe For the person and not this or that part of his nature must be the Redeemer since neither man could saue vs vnlesse he were also God nor God could die for vs vnlesse he were also man and so did sufâ—…er death in his humane nature So that the Suertie as you call him that vndertooke our saluation not onely from the beginning but before the world was precisely the person of the Sonne of God and not the humane nature of Christ and therefore you must either binde the Godhead of Christ as our Suertie or free his manhood from all bands Neither could any of Christs sufferings be of infinite price and merite for vs except we asâ—…ibe them to the voluntarie obedience of the person since the death of a iust man could not be the redemption of the worlde but the death of that person which was more woorth then all the world If then Christs sufferings take their force and value from the person they must likewise haue their freedome and election from the person Those sentences of your Authors Gregorie Austen and Ambrose if they be spoken simply seeme very harsh where they say that Christ could haue saued vs otherwaies then by suffering and dying for vs. For herein they oppose Gods absolute omnipotencie against his expresse and reuealed will which how it may be liked in Diuinitie I know not Yours is more harsh that reprooue them before you vnderstand them and chalenge that as false which is most apparantly true by the maine grounds of Christian Religion For if you auouch Gods power to extend no farder then his works as if God could doe no more then he hath done or will doe is a manifest denying of Gods omnipotencie which is larger then either his will or his
that was against vs and spoyling powers and principalities he made an open shew of them triumphing ouer them in himselfe Yee died and were buried with Christ who fastned the handwriting of ordinances to the Crosse that he might abolish it from hauing any right to tie or yoke his members Yee likewise were quickned and raised together with Christ who rising spoyled powers and principalities and triumphed ouer them in his own Person that he alone might be Lord of quicke and dead of Men and Angels so that these words spoyling powers and Principalities and triumphing ouer them are not referred to the Crosse for any thing that appeareth in the Text but to Christs Resurrection and take their truth and force from his subiecting all power in heauen and earth vnder him by his rising againe from the dead This triumph ouer Satan and all his kingdome the same Apostle to the Ephesians setteth downe as a consequent to Christs death and pertinent to his Resurrection Ascending on high he led Captiuitie Captiue and this he ascended what meaneth it but that he descended first into the lower parts of the earth So that ascending from the lower parts of the earth he led Captiuitie Captiue which is all one with he triumphed ouer powers and Principalities The Syriack translation of the New Testament together with the ancientest of the Latine Fathers doth not only so interpret the place but it doth expresse so much in the verie text that Christ had this conquest after his death The Syriack translation sayth By the dispoiling or putting off his bodie Christ made â—… shew of principalitics and powers and confounded them openly backnumch in his owne person For kenumah whence backnumch is framed in that tongue properly signifieth a Person The translations which the eldest Fathers of the Latine church either made or followed contained as much Apostolus de Christo refers vt exutus carnem potestates dehonestauit palam triumphatis illis in semetipso The Apostle reporteth of Christ sayth Nouatian how putting off his flesh he disgraced powers openly triumphing ouer them in his owne person Neither doth he idlely propose him putting off his flesh but because hee would haue him conceiued in his resurrection to put it on againe Hilarie sometimes translated it Exutus carne and sometimes Spolians se carne Principatus potestates tradux it cum fiducia triumphans cos in semetipso Christ putting off or stripping himselfe of flesh led powers and principalities captiues with boldnesse triumphing ouer them in his on ne person Both which he repeateth in his ninth booke shewing how they may stand together and adding Spoliata enim caro Christus est mortuus The flesh put off was Christ now dead So Ambrose alleageth this place Carnem se exuit Christ put of his flesh And Pacianus Exuens se carnem traduxit potestates libere triumphans eas in semetipso Christ putting off his flesh carried powers as Captiues freely triumphing ouer them in his owne person S. Austen often citeth the same place interpreting the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as the rest doe Exuens se carnem or carne and thereby noting Christes laying aside of mortalitie Apostolus dicit exuens se carnem principatus potestates exemplauit fiducialiter triumphans eos in semetipso The Apostle sayth Christ putting off flesh made an example of principalities and powers and confidently triumphed ouer them in his owne person Where he sayth Christ douested himselfe of flesh by flesh in this place we vnderstand the mortalitie of flesh for which the bodie is properly called flesh Zanchius a learned and aduised Reader and weigher of antiquitie not onely followeth this exposition himselfe saying Resurgendo de inferis triumphauit principatusque potestates expoliat as in triumphum captiuas abduxit vt est ad Coloss. 2. By rising from the lower parts Christ triumphed and spoiled principalities and powers carying them captiue in maner of a triumph as is in the second to the Colossians but he also giueth his testimony of it Therefore nothing hindereth but what Paul here writeth we may interpret as the words doe sound of a reall triumph of Christes soule seuered from his bodie in the sight of God onely and of the blessed spirits specially since the Fathers for the most part do so expound it and of our writers not a few nor the meanest Bethinke your selfe now how wide you range from the Apostles meaning by the exposition of so many learned and ancient writers Christ rose Conquerer of death and hell Ergo say you the diuels tormented Christes soule before he died with the very paines of the damned If any man be so patient to like this Logicke and not to laugh at it I much maruell seeing the Conclusion so meere a stranger to the Antecedent which hath no coherence with it But some you will say expound it of the Crosse. That is more repugnant to your purpose than the former for if not only after but euen on the Crosse Christ had that apparent and glorious triumph ouer Satan and all his power which the Apostle speaketh of then was Satan farre from tormenting Christes soule with the paines of hell as you imagine There was a conflict you thinke before the conquest A conflict argueth a resistance for the time but no preualence There was a battell in heauen sayth S. Iohn Michael and his Angels fought against the dragon and the dragon fought and his Angels but they preuailed not And the great dragon called the Diuell and Satan was cast out into the earth Shall we say that the dragon and his angels euen the Diuell and his assistants preuailed against Christ because they resisted and encountered him If this please you not take the Similitude which our Sauiour himselfe vseth of his owne doings towards the Diuell When a strong man armed keepeth his house the things that he possesseth are in peace but when a stronger then he entreth vpon him and ouer commeth him he taketh away all his armour wherein he trusted and diuideth his spoiles And no man can enter into a strong mans house and take away his goods except he first binde that strong man and then spoile his house If Christ then did enter on Satan and binde him and disarme him and so spoile him that he might make an open shew of him and of all his power what necessitie is there that Christ being the stronger should be endangered or oppressed by Satan farther then hee himselfe would The conquest was bloudie for so much as in ouercomming Satan Christ lost his life He lost it not he layed it downe to put the diuell to greater confusion for when he was not onely weake and wounded vnto death but past all helpe and hope as Satan in his pride presumed then Christ raised himselfe from the dead and ouerthrew the whole kingdome and strength of Satan spoiling him of all his
force and leading him captiue with a most glorious triumph in the sight of God and his Angels And though you can not digest it yet I make no doubt but the omnipotencie of the Sonne of God by which he is equall to his Father in the same essence was able by the only command of his will to haue taken mankinde from the dominion of the Diuell but the submission and humilitie of the Sonne of God vnto death was so vnknowen and vnlooked for to Satan that his confusion was the greater when he saw with his owne eagernesse he had beene the instrument of mans redemption and his owne destruction Doth not the verie maner of speech import some mightie contention and violent opposition where yet at length an absolute and most glorious triumphant victorie was obtained The words import a glorious conquest but what contention or opposition could there be betweene the Sonne of God and the diuell farther than pleased Christ himselfe to permit and admit I hope you will giue the diuell no power nor abilitie to resist God against his will It was Gods will and Christs good liking that the serpents head should be crushed by biting the heele of the promised seed for so the Scripture expresseth the contention and opposition that Satan should be suffered to haue against Christ. Grant then Christ suffered the diuell by the violent hands and tongues of the Iewes to doc his worst which may be proued by other places of Scripture though not by this that you bring what thence inferre you This must be conceiued and felt by Christ. What must Christ conceiue and feele The question is not whether Christ wanted sense but what the diuell did against him These could be none other effects but only of Gods proper wrath seueritie and indignation against the sinne of the world We are no whit the wiser for this answer though this be plainly repugnant to your former principles which make the soules proper suffering in Christ to be from the immediate hand of God and that the diuell I trust is not If it be truth that you teach why speake you not more directly and particularly what it was that Christ suffered from the diuell Are your mysteries so bottomlesse that they can not or so truethlesse that they may not be specified It could not be the reuealing of any glorie or comfort which such instruments procured vnto him and wrought vpon him Make you the diuell the authour of Reuelations vnto Christ It may be he is the founder of your fansies but Christ needed no such Reuealers Or do you reason that because the diuell reuealed no comfort to Christ therefore he tormented the soule of Christ These are some new found Reuelations they are no conclusions in any diuine or humane learning Against this you bring not a word I need not bring any thing against it till you bring somewhat for it but you be farre from prouing it that can not or dare not expresse it What if no tongue can expresse the maner as neither haue I once endeuoured to expresse it shall not therefore the testimonie of the Holy Ghost be true that on the Crosse Christ had such a conflict as I haue obserued Few men besides you conclude that which they can not expresse but your maner is to prate of your obseruations as if they were some reuelations which yet you neither vnderstand nor can declare The testimonie of the Holy Ghost is as true as yours is false and hath no more concordance with your conceits than light hath with darknesse A conquest you say implieth first a conflict But a conquest extendeth farther than the conflict for not only the persons and weapons of the resistants are in the Conquerers power but all the goods rights and dominions that any way belong to the vanquished It is therefore true that Christ subduing Satan subdued sinne hell eternall malediction confusion desperation and damnation but these things did not inwardly assault Christ howsoeuer by the mindes and mouthes of the wicked Christ was reputed and reproched as a reprobate The Scriptures then describe the outward tentations and afflictions that Christ suffered from the malicious thoughts tongues and deeds of the Iewcs fired and inflamed by Satan to this mischiefe but of your mysticall internall and Satanicall prouocations and torments the holy Ghost speaketh not a word I gaue you occasion enough to speake of these things when I tolde you the diuell had nothing to doe with the soules of men but either to tempt them or torment them which words you report but you after your loose maner leade your Reader by by-wayes and crosse-paths to eye other things then you glance at my exceptions forgetting still that the reason which you made remaineth both weake and idle for ought that you haue brought first or last n Defenc. pag. 81. li. 17. Before I answer you directly this we may consider Christ might and no doubt he did in his soule discerne conceiue and applie to himselfe all the rage malice and violence of the Iewes tormenting him to death as set on fire by Satan himselfe and by all the powers of hell You were to proue the diuell himselfe did worke on the Soule of Christ without any meanes of men whom he maketh his Instruments for his wicked purposes and now you tell vs that Satan did set the Iewes hands and tongues on worke to reproch the Soule and torment the Body of Christ. This that you last say is most true and ouerthroweth all that you would say For if Christ discerned and felt no worke nor force of Satan but by the mouthes and hands of the Iewes then certainly Satan had no such inward and spirituall conflict with Christ as you imagine much lesse had Satan any power to possesse and torment the Soule of Christ which is the thing you must proue before your hell paines will be haled out of Christs triumph o Defenc. pag. 81. li. 22. These powers of hell also were set on worke by the Iustice and seuere wrath of God now purposety laying punishment on his Sonne thereby to take Satisfaction for all our sinnes If you meane that God by his secret Counsell and Iustice losed the raines to Satan to shew his malice against Christ by the mouthes and hands of the wicked as he doth in the afflictions of all his Saints for purposes to him knowne and by him liked I see not how this should any thing helpe your Cause but if by this you would that Satan was Gods Instrument inwardly to torment the Soule of Christ or that the diuell had any speciall Commission to inuade the manhoode of Christ otherwise then by the violent hands and virulent tongues of the Iewes as it is most false that you ashrme so is it most wicked that you intend p Defenc. pag. 81. li. 24. Now this feeling and suffering in the Soule of Christ made an other kind of impression in him
flat falsity and impiety only the generall words that Christ suffered Gods wrath and displeasure against our sinnes may be tolerated because the Scriptures vse to call the bitternesse of affliction in whom soeuer the wrath of God by reason it riseth not simply out of Gods fauour and bountie but is permixed with his Iustice that the transitorie and tolerable smart of our sinnes may euen in this life when we feele it and faint vnder it commend vnto vs the wonderfull grace of God that hath for Christs sake released vs of those euerlasting and vnspeakable Torments which our sinnes iustly deserued the Reprobate fully feare and the damned by experience most dreadfully doe feele p Defenc. pag. 90. li. 8. You bring a Reason against this that God spiritually punisheth no man but for his owne vncleannesse which is a thing meerely vntrue Out of two Pages in my Sermons against the death of Christs Soule you piked two words where I call the death of the Soule spirituall punishment and because to auoyde tediousnesse I repeat not in euery line the same words you neglect that purposely in that Section I entreate of the death of the Soule that eighteene times in those two Pages I name the life and death of the Soule that ouer right those very words which you bring I set this Note in the Margine the Death of Christs Soule could neither proceede from God nor be acceptable vnto God as the summe of that which I intended to prooue in that place that my Conclusion immediatly vrged vpon these words is this q Serm. pag. 103. li. 1. Christ then might not suffer the inward or euerlasting death of the Soule All this I say you neglect and ouer-skip many sound and sure reasons in those two sides against the death of Christs Soule and carpe at two poore words where I vse spirituall punishment for the death of the Soule But take the words in their right sense for the death of the Soule whereof I reason in that place and then see what you and all your Adherents can say against them Eternall or spirituall death which seuereth the Soule from all grace and glory God layeth on none for an others fault because God neuer reiecteth or condemneth any Man but vpon his owne desert Punish one for another by affliction of Bodie or Mind he may because he can restore and recompence when he seeth his Time though no Man Christ Iesus excepted can want sinne whiles here he liueth which God may iustly punish when and in what respect he will r Defenc. pag. 90. li. 13. But I pray you shew me this mysterie how it is that God cannot punish spiritually where there is no sinne inherent but can and may corporally where there is none Though there lie no Children of Adam in whom there was not sinne either naturally cleauing to tâ—…em or voluntarily committed by them yet Infants after Baptisme by which Originall sinne and corruption in them is pardoned are said by better Diuines then you or I to haue no sinne and to be often punished corporally for other mens faultes Saint Austen asserteth both s August Epist 28. Quis nonit quid paruulis de quorum cruciatibus dâ—…ritia maiorum contunditur aut exercetur fides aut misericordia probatur Quis inquam nouit quid ipsis paruulis in secreto indicâ—…orum suorum bonae compensationis reseruat Deus quoniam quanquam nihil rectè fecerint tamen nec peccantes aliquid ista perpessi sunt Who can tell what good Recompence God reserueth in the secrecie of his Iudgements for those Infants by whose paines or Torments the hardnesse of their Parents or friends is repressed or their Faith exercised or their pittie prooued because though the Children did no good Acts yet neither suffered they those things for any sinne of theirs Neither doth the Church in vaine recommend those Infants to be honored as Martyrs which were slaine by Herode when he sought to kill the Lord Iesus Christ. Zanchius sayth the like Of t Zanchius iâ—… tractitionibus Theologicis de 2. praecepto pa. 340. the punishments pertayning to this present life by which we are visited of the Lord either in our outward goods or in our bodies it is a cleere case that God verie often doth visite the sinnes of the Fathers vpon the children But in the death of the soule which is the spirituall punishment that I ment God himselfe sayth u Ezech. 18. The soule that sinneth euen that shall die the sonne shall not beare the iniquitie of the father but the wickednesse of the wicked shall be vpon himselfe Saint Austen maketh the difference that I spake of x August â—…pist 75. Neque enim haec corporalis est poena qualegimus quosdam contemptores Dei cum suis omnibus qui eiusdem impietatis participes non fuerant pariter infectos Tunc quidem ad terrorem viuentium mortalia corpora perimebantur quando que vtique moritura spirâ—…tualis autem pâ—…na animas obligat de quibus dictum est anima quae peccauerit ipsa morietur This is no corpor all punishment in which we reade some despisers of God haue beene wrapped with all theirs that were not partakers of the same iniquitie for then to the terror of the liuing mortall bodies were slaine which at one time or an other must haue died But a spiritual punishment bindâ—…th soules of whom it is said the soule that sinneth that soule shall die Neither shall you euer be able to shew that one soule was slaine for an others fault as mens bodies often haue beene except they both did communicate in sinne which was the cause of their common destruction y Defenc pag. 90. li. 16. All the rest of your assertions Pag. 101. 102. 103. 105. 266. 94. are of this suite I like your wit that you can make short worke and when you can not answer to saie the things be of like sute But refell the reasons brought in these pages against the death of the soule and you will finde a warmer suite then you are ware of I need not repeate them if it please the Reader to peruse them let him iudge in Gods name whether it were weakenesse in you or in them that made you ouerslip them z Defene pag. 90. li. 17. By this one reason I weakened all yours but you could passâ—… that ouer aâ—…swearing vnto it not a word By what authoritie must euerie trifle of yours be tediously discusâ—…ed when you leape ouer sixe leaues at a iumpe least you should entangle your selfe with more then you could well discharge It was belike some worthie reason that I durst not so much as offer a word about it let vs heare it in Gods name a Ibid. li. 18. If Christs body hanging on the crosse and held by death in the graue was punished by God where yet hee found no sinne and which he still intirely loued and was neuer separated from then so he
of his bloudie sweate or of that part of his piaier Father if it be possible let this cup passe from me Is that a reason this was not respected by Christ at that time because he had The different affections in Christes agony had different causes diuers other assaults and seas of sorow touching himselfe and others as well as touching the Iewes what hobling is this to aske one entire cause for so many different affections and actions as Christ shewed in his agonie where the Scriptures note not only feare and sorow on euery side but extreame humilitie and ardent zeale with such feruencie of spirit in praier that the sweat brake from him like droppes of bloud who that sought trueth or reade but the words of the Euangelists would thus cauill with matters of such moment Christ was in these passions and praiers by the space of an houre for so himselfe said to Peter f Matth. 26. What could ye not watch with me one houre and he praied 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 more intentiuely or more feruently after he was strengthned by an Angell then before Shall we thinke he said nothing all that while in his praiers but only these words O my father if it be possible let this cupe passe from me This he repeated thrise as the Scripture obserueth but his praiers were longer and extended to other things except we thinke Christ was an houre repeating three lines Besides the Scriptures note a change in his praiers For after the Angel from heauen appeared to him and strengthened him f Luc. 22. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 then entering into an agonie he praied more earnestly than before so that his sweat trickled downe to the ground like droppes of bloud You say there must be one entire cause of all these passions So you say but which way doe you or can you goe about to prooue it saue by the liquor of your owne lips which is weaker then water to glew these things together g Defenc. pag. 95 li. 21. The worke of Christ at this time wrought by him is by a proper and peculiar name iustly called his passion not his compassion Which I would haue you to note A man may soon note the worthinesse of your arguments that when neither by truth nor reason you can preuaile you fall to collude with the names of passion and compassion As if Christes passion did not sometimes import the whole historie of his death and sufferings wherein are confessions reprehensions predictions praiers and promises of Christ as well as paines endured And did it note noe more but paines are not the passions and affections of feare and sorow as painfull many times to the soule as the stripes and wounds of the bodie Such trifles you take for triple engins when your conceits must be concluded all other mens arguments haue no shape of any reason with you so deepely you are in loue with your selfe and your owne inuentions be they neuer so ill-fauoured or mishapen h Defenc. pag. 96. li. 2. Lastly those holymen it seemeth hauing their thoughts wholly defixed on their vehement pittie towards the Iewes earnestly and constantly wished that the cuppe of Gods eternall wrath might come vpon themselues that the Iewes who deserued it might scape But Christ in his passion contrariewise desired that cuppe which he tasted to be to bitter and to violent for him might passe away from himselfe If your suppositions of Moses and Paule were graunted you which yet are no way true they make the stronger against you though you dissemble the sight thereof For if pittie towards the Iewes so farre preuailed with those two being the seruants of Christ that they yeelded their soules to eternall torments as you imagine to saue their Brethren how great reason then hath it that the Messias himselfe in whom was the fullnesse of all mercie might be mooued with such inward compassion for that whole nation that he most earnestly and frequently praied in the Garden to haue this cuppe that is this maner of death whereby the Iewes should perish to passe from him as Origen Ierom Ambrose and Bede expound those wordes and though your hellish humour be so hoat and so haughtie that you pronounce of euerie thing there is no semblance of reason in this yet the considerate Reader will find in those mens iudgments whom I haue named and produced more sap and pith then in your hell paines For seeing the affection of mercy hath beene so mightie in men that they were more then perplexed with this griefe what bring you but babling to shew that Christ might not feruently pray if so it pleased God not to make his death the meane of their vtter ouerthrowe and when he saw their pertinacie and infidelitie to be such that his praier did not preuaile for them to be troubled and agonized in mind for their wofull and willfull destruction Christ praid for himselfe not for them But these learned Fathers tell you he praied not against his owne death simply but respecting them by whose hands it should come and whose eternall ruine it should be Your cup of hell paines which you dreame Christ then tasted to be too bitter and too violent for him is a false and fond conceit of yours hauing neither trueth sense nor likelihood in it and yet forsooth both Scriptures and fathers must giue place to your deuices and semblances This I speake if your assertion of Moses and Paul were admitted howbeit indeed you are not able to prooue one word of all that you affirme in this case You take certaine verie obscure and much questioned words of Moses and Paul for your ground-worke and at your pleasure without all proofe you build thereon a whole world of falshood and confusion Out of which and the like darke and doubtfull places because the most of your hellish doctrine is drawen I thinke it needfull to let the Reader see how far and what those wordes inferre which you so much striue to abuse When the children of Israel had made them a Calfe of golde and feasted and plaied Moses prayer for the people examined before it as the God that brought them out of Egypt the Lord was wroth and said to Moses i Deuter. 9. v. 13. I haue seene this people and beholde it is a stifnecked people k 14. let me alone that I may destroy them and put out their name from vnder heauen and I will make of thee a mightie nation and greater than they be For this sinne when Moses prayed that the whole nation might not be destroyed he sayd to God l Exod. 32. v. 31. This people hath sinned a great sinne m 32. And now if thou wilt take away their sinne and if not wipe me out of the Booke which thou hast written To whom God answered n Vers 33. Whosoeuer hath sinned against me I will put him out of my booke The first thing here to be considered is what God
disputation that manie here vndertake whether this wish were lawfull or vnlawfull If Paul refâ—…ained thus to wish because it was neither lawfull nor possible actually to obtaine it how senselesse and truethlesse are your foure obseruations grounded vpon the possibilitie and pietie of this wish whereas all men of any iudgement or vnderstanding conclude the cleane contrarie but such is your cariage that except you may crosse the resolutions of all men you thinke your selfe no bodie Be famous therefore in your follie that bring impossibilities and impieties for the chiefe foundation of your late sprung faith your Reader I trust will require some better proofe before he giue you allowance in matters of such moment as these be m Defenc. pag. 97. li. 1. Thirdly that extraordinarily there is greater loue among meere men then only to die bodily one for another though vsually and ordinarily a greater cannot be found among men which is it that Christ meaneth but how much more then may the loue of Christ toward his elect be farre greater contrarie to your assertion pag 107. 108. Your doctrine is all extraordinarie The Defendâ—…r sayth the Scriptures â—…re ordinarily true that is sometimes false that no ordinarie rules of the Scriptures can stand with it Howbeit in this you chalenge Christ and not mee who saith n Iohn 15. No man hath greater loue then to lay downe his life for his friend That is ordinarily true you say but extraordinarily false Then extraordinarily by your supposition Christ sometimes speaketh an vntrueth though it be not ordinarie with him so to doe which honor you yeeld to the rest of the Scriptures For when you can not otherwise auoid them those you answeare are the o Defenc. pag. 96. li. 32. ordinarie and common rules of the Scripture But your doctrine consisteth of extraordinarie Rules which are no where found but in your owne braine You haue heard Chrysostome Photius and Zanchius auouch who are the chiefe commenders of the exposition which you would seeme to follow that Paul neither did nor might preferre the loue of his Countriemen before his owne saluation and communion with Christ but that his principall respect in this wish was his loue to the glorie of Christ which he more esteemed then his owne soule So that nothing did hinder Paul to preferre Gods glory before the safety of his owne soule and yet Christes rule to stand true that no man hath greater loue then to lay downe his life for his friend Neither was it the death of the Soule that Paul wished since he would by no meanes as these old and new writers obserue be seuered from the loue and fauour of Christ but from the ioy and honour that is laid vp for the saints of God Peter Martyr is of the same opinion with them p Pet. Martyr in ca. 9. epist. ad Romanos Neither doth Paul in this place say he wished to be separated from the loue of God nullo enim modo voluisset ab illo amando desistere for by no meanes would Paul haue ceased from louing God only he wisheth to be excluded from the blessednesse and fruition of God And this euerie one of vs ought to be willing vnto euen lesse to regard his owne eternall happinesse then the glorie of God Now he that still loueth god and is beloued of him by no meanes can suffer the death or curse of the soule mentioned in the Scriptures q 1. Cor. 16. if any man loue not the Lord Iesus Christ let him be Anathema maranAtha that is accursed in the highest degree then could not the same curse befall him that loued Christ dearer then his owne soule but the words of our Sauiour must needes be verified in him r Maâ—…th 10. he that looseth his soule for my sake shall find or saue it So that neither of your suppositions are true either that Paul preferred the loue of men before the safety of his owne soule or that for their sakes he was content to die the death of the soule mentioned in the Scriptures which is a separation as well from the loue and trueth of God as from the glorie and felicitie of God And your comparison for which you intend all this and wherewith you would crosse my assertion is most vntrue that Christes loue to his elect led him to die the death of the soule or to forgoe the fauour and fellowship of God for their sakes For the coniunction of Christs manhoode to his Godhead being personall was farre greater and nearer then the knitting of Paul or Moses vnto God and if that vnion were broken all the workes and sufferings of Christs manhoode were no way able to bring vs to God Christ could not be content to be separated from God for vs. Wherefore it were a thing extreamly impious in the manhood of Christ and no lesse dangerous to our saluation for him to be content to be vtterly seuered from the vnion and communion of the diuine nature with which he was personally ioined and though your imagination of Moses and Paul be false enough and altogether impossible yet to dreame the like of Christ is the higth of all impietie Neither doth that diminish his loue to vs since there was no need thereof for vs his other suffrings being sufficient in the iust and exact iudgement of God and the loue that led the second person in Trinitie to lay aside for the time the full and perfect fruition of his glorie and equalitie with God his Father and in our flesh to emptie and humble himselfe not only to the infirmities of our nature and miseries of our life but euen to the shame and paine of our death on the Crosse farre exceeded all the loues that men or Angels could shew vnto vs. For there is more distance betweene the glorie and Maiesty of God and the sense and shame of our miserie and mortality then betwixt the saluation or damnation of men or Angels Wherefore Christs loue to vs may not be diminished or made inferiour to the loue of creatures though he were not damned for our sakes since that ineuitablely and irreuocablely would haue fastned vs to a greater condemnation and no way saued vs whereas now his vnspeakable fellowship with God hath recalled vs all from the damnation due to vs to be partakers of the loue and grace that eternally and infinitely he possessed with God s Defenc. pag. 97. li. 6. Fourthly we see here these holy men without feeling any paines inflicted by Gods wrath but only through an earnest and mighty compassion of loue had their minds drawen so wholy to thinke on this speciall thing aboue their reach that during the time they turne not themselues to any other cogitation t li. 17. This you acknowledge may be in men and yet you will not scoffe at them as cast into a Traunce by it nor reproche them with infernall confusion How much lesse ought you so to deale with Christ.
to mans nature yet differre they farre from the paines of the damned to which you seeke in this place to fasten the soule of Christ. f Defenc. pag. 97. li. 26. As for the Fathers which you cite if they meane as they seeme to doe that now at his passion among other causes of sorow there wanted not this euen his great pittie towards his forlorne countriemen then we ioine with them If they meane as you would haue them that this was the maine and chiefe cause of his extreame sorow and amazednesse therein Ivtterly leaue them You haue a long while in most lauish maner vntowardly pretended that g Defenc. pag. 94. li. 20. Certainly Christ would haue greatly reioiced to see the due execution of Gods most holie and deserued iustice vpon the Iewes and now with a suddaine retraite you ioine with Ambrose Ierom Augustine and Bede that this among other causes of sorow wanted not in the Garden Then as here you be more soberlie minded then before or he at least that made this collection for you so this often crossing your selfe argueth that either you haue not yet recouered your witts to vnderstand what you write or that your helpers being in diuers places and not seeing the one what the other wrote you haue vnhandsomely patched their notes together without marking wherein they contradicted each other But this we take to be the nearest the trueth since I doe not vrge this cause to exclude all others which by any due circumstance of the Scriptures might concurre to greeue him in the Garden onely I noted that those learned and auncient fathers coniecturing the causes of Christs sorrow at that instant neuer drempt of your hell paines which you haue lately coyned out of the hollownesse of your owne hart but obserued other causes that might afflict his mind which you in your Treatise reiected with great skorne howsoeuer some of your friends haue since drawen you to be otherwise minded As for your leaning them it is little to the purpose they will remaine wise and godly expositors when such a blind guide as you are will be lightly regarded withall your fantasticall Nouelties h Defenc. pag. 97. li. 31. Howbeit this here note in the that these Fathers auouch Christ feared not his bodily death or passion for thereof only they speake here questionles You contrariwise say that Christ feared bodily death for thereof also you discourse and had more cause as you thinke so to doe then any of his members First then they questionlesse gainsay your new plot of mans redemption by the paines of hell For they speak of the death which Christ died for our sins accordingto the Scriptures which if they tooke to be only bodily as you graunt they knew nothing neither of the death of the Soule nor of the second death of the damned which you auouch Christ must suffer before he could redeeme vs and so they or you are cleane besides the Christian faith Againe they doe not simply say he feared not death for then should they crosse other fathers and euen themselues affirming that Christ had a naturall feare of death but the feare thereof was not the cause of this Agonie that is he feared it not so much as to be thus afflicted at the remembrance of it Otherwise Ambrose himselfe saith i Ambros. in Luc. li. 10. de tristitia dolore Christi Debuit ergo Dolorem suscipere vt vinceret tristitiam non excluderet nos disceremus in Christo quemadmodum futurae mortis mestitiam vinceremus Christ was therefore to admit sorrow that he might conquere it not exclude it and we in Christ might learne to ouercome the feare of death approching So Cyrill k Cyril The sauri li. 10 ca. 3. Quando formidasse mortem videtur vt homo dicebat Pater transeat à me Calix iste When Christ seemed to fâ—…are death as a Man he said Father let this Cup passe from me For though as a man he abhorred death yet as a man he refused not to performe the will of his Father and of himselfe being the word or Sonne of God Morti ergo quam vt homo formidabat seipsum pro nobis vt Deus tradidit To death then which as a man he feared he deliuered himselfe for vs as God And Athanasius l Athana Ora tio 4. contra Aria As by Death Christ abolished Death 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and all humane miseries by suffering them as a man so by vsuall feare he tooke away our feare and made Men no longer to feare death And Damascene m Damascen orthodoxae fidei li. 3. ca. 18. As a Man Christ would haue the Cup to passe 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 These wrrds proceeded from a naturall feare And Theophylact n Theophyl in 26. ca Matthaei 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 It is incident to the nature of man to feare death for death entered besides or against Nature and therefore nature flieth death o Idem in Luc. cap. 22. The common feare of mans nature Christ cured 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 consuming or dispersing it in him selfe and making it obedient to the will of God This your ignorance apprehendeth as a contradiction in them but were you quietly minded or better acquainted with their positions and reasons you would soone see that these may stand together that Christ might haue a naturall feare of death incident to man and yet that feare not to be the whole cause of this agonie p Defenc. pag. 97. li. 37. Thirdly touching his regard of his Church generally the same answere serueth as it is giuen to the last point before You meane that among other causes of his sorrow this wanted not which is as much as I auouched And the more dearely he loued his The third cause concurring to Christs agonie Disciples that followed him and the whole Church that should after beleeue in him the more inwardly he might sorrow for their infirmities and earnestly pray for their safeties being no way ignorant of satans eger and watchfull malice against them Since then after his resurrection and ascension he should in glory appeare to the face of God for them what let was there but he might now in the daies of his flesh approching to his passion for their deliuerance in most humble and ardent manner mediate aswell for their redemption as preseruation and in this loue zeale towards them for whom he gaue himselfe powre out both abundant teares and bloudie sweats to shew the height of his desire and care to prouide and purchase their protection and saluation His supplications for vs were a necessarie part of our reconciliation to God as well as his sufferings for vs and the Prophet expressing the one adioyneth the other as no lesse requisite then the former in saying q Esa. 53. he bare the sinne of many and prayed for the Trespassers And no doubt he chose this place and time before his
of his sufferings You would seeme skilfull after your vnlearned maner in the soules-suffering Is there any suffring more proper to the soule then feare sorow from her owne cogitations apprehensions affections from the immediate hand of God you thinke is more proper That in some cases may be possible though in Christes you can prooue no such thing but that is most proper which the soule neuer wanteth and hath of her owne nature And therefore so farre is it from being exempted from the sacrifice of sinne that in vs there is none other sacrifice for sinne but repentance which is all one with godly sorow bringing with it c 2. Cor. 7. ver 11. câ—…re fâ—…are desire zeale and such like effects of true detestation of sinne as the Apostle describeth Repentance for himselfe Christ could haue none because Inward and 〈◊〉 sorow for â—…ur 〈◊〉 must be â—…ound in Christes sacrifice for them he neuer sinned but as our transgressions displeased the holinesse and prouoked the wrath of God against vs so when our Lord and Sauiour came to make full satisfaction for our sinnes he did not onely appease the iustice of God by enduring his hand but contented the holinesse of God by inward and infinite sorow for our sakes and sinnes which we were not able to yeeld vnto God To haue accepted the punishment which Gods iustice awarded and to haue neglected the offence and displeasure which gods holinesse conceaued against sinne had beene not to pacifie but to prouoke God in not regarding the cause which mooued him to take vengeance on sinne It is therefore most agreeable to the rules of pietie that the inward sorow for our sinnes which the sonne of God impressed on his humane soule when he prepared himselfe to make purgation of them did no lesse affect and afflict him then the outward paines receaued in his body and why you should exclude this from his agonie there is no reason but that you are most in loue with that which hath least proofe or likeliehood to be the cause of this agonie This being exactly noted by Hilarie Ambrose Cyrill and other auncient and learned Fathers I did rightly to obserue it how lightly soeuer your insolent conceit esteemeth it d 〈◊〉 de 〈◊〉 li. 10. Igitur cum tristitia de nobis est oratio pro nobis est non possunt non omnia propter nos gesta esse intelligi cum omnia pro nobis quibus timebatur orata sunt Since then both Christes sorow was concerning vs and his praier for vs all the rest must needes be vnderstood for our sakes for so much as all his praiers were powred forth for vs for whom he feared So Ambrose e Ambros. de fide ad Gratianum li. 2. c. 3. mihi compatitur mihi tristis est mihi dolet Ergo pro me et in 〈◊〉 doluit qui prose nihilhabuit quod doleret Doles igitur Domine Iesu non tua sed mea vulnera non tuam mortem sed meam infirmitatem Christ is affected for me he is heauie for me he soroweth for me He sorroweth then in me and for me who had nothing in himselfe to sorrow for Thou sorrowedst Lord Iesu not for thine owne woundes but for mine not for thine owne death but for my weakenesse And Cyrill f Cyril de recta fide ad Reginas li. 2. ca de Sanctâ—…fication 〈◊〉 Christi That Christ might make our praiers acceptable to God himselfe beginneth the matter euen opening his fathers eares to the nature of man and making them most readie to the praiers of such as were in any perâ—…ll for his cause Therefore in him 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as in a second root or first fruits of mankinde we were praying with strong cries and not without teares that the power of death might be abolished and the life restored or strengthened which was at first bestowed on our nature And Bede g Bedâ—… in Lucâ—… câ—… 22. If Christ were sorowfull to vs that is for our sakes it must needs be that he was comforted by the Angell for vs and to our vse For what should he aske with that agonie for himselfe who here on earth gaue heauenly things with power Then neither Christes sorow in the Garden nor his prayer with that agonie after he was comforted by the Angell were for himselfe or his owne sufferings much lesse for hell paines deuised and inflicted by you on the soule of Christ but his extreame sorrow and affectionate prayer might well be for our sinnes whose cause he vndertooke and for our sakes whose persons he then presented vnto God with most vehement contention of spirit and of all the powers of soule and body h Defenc. pag. 98. li. 12. Neither in respect of these your supposed causes could Christ say Saue me from this houre nor Let this cuppe passe from me as in respect of his infinite paines he might The houre and cuppe which Christ speaketh of are by himselfe referred not to any paines What cup Christ dranke of suffered in the Garden as you pretend much lesse to the paines of hell inflicted by Gods immediate hand on Christes soule as you would haue it but to the time and maner of his sufferings from the hands of the Iewes Of the houre after all his prayers ended in the Garden and his last returne to his Disciples he sayth i Mar. 14. v. 41 Sleepe hence forth and take your rest 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the houre is come beholde the Sonne of man is giuen into the hands of sinners Here is that houre that Christ so much spake of euen the time that he should be deliuered into the handes of sinners to suffer a cruell and shamefull death at their hands And so he told them that came to take him k Luc. 22. v. 53 This is your verie houre and the power of darkenesse And this he called the Cuppe which his father gaue him to drinke For when Peter drew his sword to defend his Master from the hands of the Iewes Iesus said vnto him l Ioh. 18. v. 11. put vp thy sword into thy sheath shall I not drinke of the cuppe which my Father hath giuen me Peter neither did nor coulde hinder the cuppe which you imagine Christ dranke in the garden from the immediate hand of God he ment plainly to resist the Iewes that they should not apprehend Christ. That enterprise of Peter when Christ would represse and submit himselfe to his fathers will and counsell for his death he said as we saw before shall I not drinke of the cup which my Father hath giuen me So that the Scriptures mention the houre cup of Christs suffering on the Crosse from the rage of the people malice of the rulers of your inuisible cuppe containing the death of the damned they say nothing m Defenc. pag. 98. li. 16. His holy and righteous affections were at all houres and seasons in him
desert of sinne the whole masse of mankind was condemned If the Christian faith permit vs to say that we were condemned before we were redeemed since we could not be redeemed but from condemnation how much more lawfull is it for me to say that euerlasting death was deserued by vs and prepared for vs without Christ since the reward of sinne was first prouided for the diuell and his angels before man fell through his inticements and was neuer since vnprepared d Defenc. pag. 9â—… li. 〈◊〉 The truth is he could not by any meanes pray against that or decline that onely vnlesse he were for the time in some astonishment and perturbation of his senses which by the infinitenesse of that paine he well might be yea he could not but be as is afore shewed to haue hapned in Moses and Paul There is as much truth in this as in the rest of your deuices Here are errors as thicke as hops shuffled in vpon your bare word the proofe whereof you bring after at leasure about latter Lammas 1. That Christ felt infinite painâ—…s of hell which you before named all the whole paines which our sinnes deserued 2. That by the infinitenesse of that paine he could not but be in some astonishment and perturbation of his senses which though here you mitigate with some yet afterward you straine it aboue the extreamest degree of astonishment that might be Your words are e Defenc. pag. 128. li 26. Therefore no maruaile though this astonishment in Christ were farre greater then is to be seene in any man that euer was or shall be Wherein you keepe the Sauiour of the world as long and as often as pleaseth yourselfe 3. That against these paines he could not by any meanes pray onely vnlesse he were thus astonished 4. That Paul in his Epistle to the Romanes expressing his affection for the Iewes was likewise astonished and amazed as not knowing what he said f Defenc. pag. 99 li. 8. This is the very point of our Defence affirme this and you affirme with vs all that we hold and professe When I am out of my wits I may chaunce to hold these conceits with you otherwise so long as God giueth me grace to be soberly minded and well aduised I will see other manner of warrant for all these weafes and straies then you yet shew before I affirme them or professe them g Defenc pag. 99. li. 9. Otherwise if you meane that Christ praied intentiuely to haue the whole and intire cup of eternall malediction and death passe from him which both the elect deserue and the reprobate sustaine that as it is pâ—…ssing strange doctrine so is it simply impossible For he could not intentiuely pray against that nor feare that which he perfitly knew concerned him not at all and by no meanes could euer possibly come nâ—…are him I premonished the Reader that I would there repeate the diuers iudgements of diuers men and so farre admitte them as they might accord with the Christian faith To this opinion of some men that Christ was in his agonie stroken with a feare of eternall death and so might pray against it I gaue two expositions how those words might be tolerated in Christian Religion without apparent impietie The one that h Sermo pag. 23. li. 21. Christ had no neede to pray for himselfe against that cuppe of eternall death but ONLIE FOR VS who then suffered with him in him The other that if we would conioine Christs person with ours feare must there be taken for a shunning and declining of that cup which he i Ibid. pag. 24. li. 10. religiously disliked For k Ibid. pag. 23. li. 29. touching himselfe albeit the innocencie of his cause the holinesse of his life the merite of his obedience the abundance of his spirite the loue of his father and vnity of his person did most sufficiently guard him from all danger and doubt of eternall death yet to shew the perfection of his humility he would not suffer his humane nature to require it on right but prostrate on the earth besought his father that cuppe might passe from him and was heard in that he shunned or auoided I repeate the selfe same words which then I vsed to lett the Reader see that I shift not hands nor change not mindes as there is no cause I should but that this Broker neglecting my manifest limitations to other mens opinions and euident speache as also suppressing my purpose would haue the world beleeue that I graunt Christ doubted and feared eternall death to come on his owne person Which in the maze that you put him in sir defensor might well be since you auouch hee knew not what he praied or els he sinned in praying against the resolute and knowen will of God but by my positions it is impossible that any distrustfull feare of hell or eternall death should fall on the soule of Christ for the reasons there shortly but sufficiently collected by me And this is your idle course throughout your Booke to catch at a word and neuer to regard what goeth before or after be it neuer so plaine and perspicuous to recall your misconstruing my speach Omitte then your wanton rouing or malitious swaruing from my meaning and saying and refute either of these limitations if you can And first least any man thinke I limite other mens words without iust cause I ment herein the words of the Catechisme which you would faine pull into your packe as also of some other writers whose sayings so long as they might be salued with any good construction I thought not fitte to repell as intolerable in Christs Church The Catechisme saieth l Nowels Catechisme Greeke and Latine pag. 281. Christum non communi modo morte in hominum conspectu mulctatum sed et aeternae mortis horrore perfusum fuisse horribiles formidines atque acerbissimos animi dolores pro nobis perpessum et perfunctum esse Peccatoribus enim quorum hic quasi personam Christ us sustinuit non praesentis modo sed futurae etiam aeternaeque mortis dolores atque cruciatus debentur Christ not onely died our common death in the sight of men but was also perfused The Translator of the Catechisme into Greeke allowed as well as the Latin saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 agonized with the horror of eternall death suffered and felt for vs horrible feares and most bitter sorowes of mind For to sinners whose person in some sort Christ here sustained were due the sorowes and torments not of this present death onely but also of future and eternall death Of the paines of the damned really inflicted in the garden on Christs soule by the immediate hand of God and of Christs extreame astonishment for the present Torments therof the writer of the Catechisme knew nothing these deuices of yours are later then the making of that Booke but he speaketh of Christes fearing the infinite wrath of God against
our sinnes which he apprehended in the Garden and in respect thereof fell into this horrible feare These wordes of the Catâ—…chisme if we referre to the feare Christ had for his members then ioined in one bodie with him whose cause he vndertooke with more desire and care then his owne since he emptied and loaded himselfe to purchase their aduancement and ease they might be receaued and approoued as sufferable in the Christian faith but if we so tooke them as if Christ had any doubt or distrustfull feare of his owne saluation they were not agreeable to the trueth Your selfe sir wrangler speake against this later senâ—…e of the wordes as much as I doe For you say m Defenc. pag. 99. li. 11. 12. It is passing strange doctrine and simply impossible that Christ should feare the cup of eternall malediction which he perfectly knew concerned him not at all and by no meanes could euer possibly come neere him But the Catechisme saith Christ was perfused or perplexed with the horror of eternall death And as our head knit with vs into one and the same body he might tremble at eternall death hanging ouer our heads and most dreadfully persuing our sinnes in vs if he made not satisfaction for vs. You would shift the word eternall out of the text and tell vs a tale of the substance thereof which you will imagine how Christ shall suffer by a new deuice of yours though the Catechisme speake nothing thereof but if you expound the Catechisme and not correct it or confute it you must shew vs how Christ might feele or feare EVERLASTING OR FVTVRE DEATH due to sinners For those are the words of the Catechisme who not content to say EVERLASTING addeth thereto FVTVRE death which of force must follow after this present death separating the soule from the bodie except you haue the skill in Grammar to make future goe before present How Christ in coniunction with vs and compassion on vs might feare euerlasting death for vs as imminent ouer vs and yet speake in his owne name I will in place conuenient more largely declare when I come to Christes complaint on the crosse till which time I pray the Reader to haue patience least I should be forced often to prooue and repeat one and the same thing Touching the other limitation that Christ might feare that is warâ—…ly and religiously shunne the cuppe of eternall malediction and intentiuely pray against it as well in respect of himselfe as of vs you blunder out a proposition which in Christes cause is not so true as you take it to be n Pa. 99. li. 13. He could not you say intentiuely pray against Christs manhood prâ—…ied for that with all 〈◊〉 which his person by rigâ—…t might haue chalenâ—…ed that which he perfectly knew could by no meanes come neere him By this rule Christ should pray for nothing touching himselfe for Christ perfectly knew all that God had most certainly decreed towards him and chiefly Gods resolute and reuealed counsels for his glory What need then was there Christ should pray for any such thing since he perfectly knew what should come to passe and by the power of his person was fully able to dispose of heauen and hell life and death both present and eternall His owne words are 〈◊〉 Whatsoeuer things the Father doth the same things 〈◊〉 Iohn 5. doth the Sonne also for likewise as the Father raiseth vp the dead and quickeneth them so the Sonne quickeneth whom he will The Father iudgeth no man but hath committed all iudgement to the Sonne that all men should honour the Sonne as they honour the Father and hath giuen him power also to execute iudgement in that he is the Sonne of man Christ perfectly knew that p Eâ—…a 42. 49 he should be giuen for a light of the Gentils Did he not therefore aske it according to Dauids prophesie q Psal 2. Aske of me and I will giue thee the Gentils for thine inheritance Christ neither had nor could haue any doubt of his glorification Did he not therefore pray r Iohn 17. Now Father glorifie me with thine owne selfe with the glory which I had with thee before the world was Was not Christ most assured that he should s Esa. 53. diuide the spoiles of the mightie and be a t Hose 13. death vnto death and a destruction vnto hell and yet Dauid applieth these prayers vnto him u Psal. 22. Deliuer my soule from the sword my desolate soule from the power of the dogge Saue me from the lions mouth and heare mee from the hornes of the vnicorne Though therefore by the right of his power he might haâ—…e sayd in all things as he did in some x Matth. 8. I will be thou cleane and againe y Iohn 17. Father I will that they which thou hast giuen me be with me euen where I am that they may behold my glory yet to demonstrate the wonderfull vertue of his obedience and humilitie he suffered his humane nature humbly to pray for that which his person could of it selfe performe and in all things referred himselfe to his Fathers will though he also sayd to his Father All thine are mine and I am glorified in them and all things that the Father hath are mine Then might Christ in the Garden pray that the cuppe of eternall malediction deserued by our sinnes might passe from him and his though he submitted himselfe and his members to drinke of the cuppe of Gods wrath so much as should please his heauenly Father which he was assured in regard of his prayer should be no more than he and his should well endure z Defenc. pag. 99 li. 16. All this is nothing else in effect then your first cause his submission to Gods maiestie sitting in iudgement wherefore you might haue lessened your number and so your answer to this might haue beene the same which is made to your foremost Your conceite is not so currant that I should pare my number for your pleasure Christ himselfe saith a Matth. 22. On these two Commandements thou shalt loue the Lord thy God with all thine heart with all thy soule and with all thy minde and thy neighbour as thy selfe hangeth the whole Law and the Prophets Were therefore then the tenne Commandements which God gaue to Moses superfluous because they might be reuoked to two generall contents speciall parts and duties are profitablie deliuered so long as they be any way distinguished notwithstanding they may be comprised in fewer but more generall branches The worke of our Redemption was the summe of all that Christ did said or suffered heere on earth shall we therefore reiect the rest of the Gospell because the substance thereof may be expressed in a word or twaine these you will say are not distinct in matter but in wordes Who told you so The trembling at Gods glorie when it was reuealed to mans infirmitie the honouring Feare
vpon him he might and did iustly feare the power of Gods wrath prouoked with our sinnes which though he were assured could not rage on him vnto condemnation yet God had infinite meanes to presse and punish the humane nature of Christ aboue that it was able to beare And therefore except Christ would contemne the wrath of his father which were impious he was withall possible feare and trembling to deprecate his fathers anger against our sinnes knowing that God would at his most ardent and most suppliant praier both pardon vs and proportion that paine according to the weaknesse of our flesh which he bare about him that neither his obedience nor patience should be ouerwhelmed nor endangered but onely prooued and tried that in all things Christ might shew himselfe a patterne of perfection as well by patience in affliction as by innocencie of life And this feare the more vehement in Christ the more pleasing to God since it proceeded neither from infidelitie nor distrust but from pietie confessing the greatnesse and iustnesse of Gods anger against our wickednesse and vnwoorthinesse and from charitie putting his holy and harmelesse person in the gappe betweene vs and God least the wrathfull displeasure of God lighting on vs should vtterly consume vs. A third cause concurring with the rest of Christes feares in the Garden against Christ might feare the sting of death as horrible to mans nature which he praied might be the naturall abhorring of death which his manhood then had and shewed in priuate because he neither despised that punishment of God laide vpon our sinne which indeed is and ought to be displeasant to mans nature in that it was inflicted on vs for disobedience neither would he suffer his soule or flesh to struggle and striue with death as ours doe when sense and life beginnes to faile in the eies of his persecutors to whom by the present and quiet breathing out of his soule in their sight he would declare himselfe to be the disposer and ruler of death and so more then a man though as a man hee were content to die for our sakes And this kinde of feare verie learned and well redde Diuines agree might be the cause of Christes prayer in the garden to haue the Cuppe passe from him not that he was then amazed and in that astonishment praied against the knowen will of God as you imagine and on that foundation build your conceit of hell paines to be then suffered in the soule of Christ which you thinke excluded both reason and memorie from Christ but that he therein accorded with his fathers will who would haue that Cuppe hatefull and horrible by nature though faith and obedience should ouerrule the feare and sting of death in our flesh and Gods will be preferred before the naturall dislike which he would haue vs to feele of death k Zanchius de tribus 〈◊〉 part 2. li. 3. cap 9. As touching Christes diuine Nature saith Zanchius there was alwaies one and the same will of the Father and the Sonne concerning his death and passion Yea as Christ was man he was alwaies obedient to his Father and therefore he saide I alwaies doe the things which please him What meaning then hath Quod deprecatur mortem calicem that he praieth to be freed from death and from the Cuppe Naturaliter quâ homo expauescebat exhorrescebat fugiebatque mortem Naturally as a man Christ feared abhorred and shunned death his naturall horror of death he called his will when he said Not my will be done to witte this naturall will which I haue as a man Yet neither doth this will of Christ resist his Fathers will for the Father would haue Christ to be like vs in all things sinne excepted and to that end would haue him made Man Therefore when Christ did naturally shunne and desire to escape death he did not contradict his Fathers will because the Father would haue this naturall horror and feare of death to be in Christ as a punishment of our sinnes Wherefore it is altogether false that Christes will in this was diuers from his Fathers will For we haue concluded that this naturall horror of death which Christ called his will was not repugnant to the will of his Father whereby he would haue Christ subiect to this horror If in respect of the same end the Father had beene willing Christ should die and Christ had beene vnwilling or had neuer so little refused then their willes had beene indeed repugnant But in reference to the same end that is to our saluation Christ alwaies had the same will that his Father had For in regard of our saluation Christs will was euer the same and constant but in respect of his humane Nature he neuer put off this affection wherein he was like vs and whereby we naturally flie death By the iudgement of this learned writer the varietie of willes in Christ the one naturally shunning death as in a man like vs the other accepting and desiring it for our saluation was no contrarietie either in it selfe or to the will of God but God himselfe would haue the sting of our common and vsuall death to be grieuous vnto him because it was the punishment of our sinne in Adam and yet obedience to counteruaile that naturall detestation of death when God for his glorie calleth vs to that triall as he did his Sonne in that case The like limitations of Christes prayer in the Garden if it were possible let this cup passe from me other ancient writers deliuered before Zanchius who obserue this expresse condition out of Christes prayer That if it were possible to stand with Gods will and our saluation then Christ prayed the cuppe might passe from him and not otherwise l Orig. in Math. tract 35. Christ taking vnto him sayth Origen the nature of mans flesh retained all the properties thereof according to which he prayed in this place the cuppe might passe from him It is the propertie of euery faithfull man first to be vnwilling to suffer any paine specially that tendeth to death because he is a man and hath flesh but if God so will then to be content euen against that will of his owne because he is faithfull There is also another Exposition of this place which is this If it be possible that all those good things may come to effect without my passion which otherwise shall come by my death then let this passion passe from me that both the world may be saued and the Iewes not perish by putting me to death So Bede m Beâ—…a in 14. ca. 〈◊〉 If death may die without my death in the flesh let this cuppe sayth Christ passe from me but because this will not otherwise be thy will be done not mine And Euthymius n Euthymius in Matth. cap. 26. As a man Christ sayd If it be possible that is so farre as is possible And in saying Yet not as I will but as thou wilt he
humour when the Scriptures and fathers precisely conclude the contrarie x Defenc. 〈◊〉 100. li. 27. Therefore I conclude he thus feared not his bodily death but it was the paines of the second death which he felt and so feared This conclusion may well be yours it rightly resembleth the Maker Christ feared somewhat and not his bodily dâ—…ath ergo he felt the second death which the Scripture sayth is the lake y Reâ—…el 21. that burneth with fire and brimstone So many gappes in one conclusion would no man make besides you For first how prooue you that feare was the cause of his bloudie sweat If it were naturall feare whiâ—…h quencheth the spirits cooleth the bloud could not procure a bloudie sweat If it were supernaturall and mysticall as Hilarie Austen Prosper Bede and Bernard obserue then can you conclude no cause thereof but must leaue it as a secret and wonderfull effect of Christes power and will knowen to God and vnknowen to man Secondly if we grant â—…eare might be the cause thereof the feare of Gods power infinitly able to punish the sinne of man on the person of Christ without the paines of the damned might iustly strike the Manhoode of Christ with any terrour that mans nature was capable of without the losse of grace and faith For feare doth not alwayes apprehend what danger is toward but onely that some danger aboue our reach or strength is imminent ouer vs. Thirdly if feare of what you will were the cause of this agonie it is no way consequent that that which Christ feared was really inflicted on him since feare is of future not of present euiâ—…l and the Apostle beareth witnesse in this case that Christ was heard or freed z Heb. 5. from that he feared Fourthly how many things Christ would or did obtaine of his Father for vs by his sufferings so many things might concurre as causes of this inflamed prayer whence 〈◊〉 by order of the Euangelists narration this bloudie sweate So that there being fourâ—… maine exceptions against your collection whereof you shall neuer auoid any one you soaring aloft and stooping to nothing but your owne dreames light iust on your hell paines not because the Scriptures make any such mention but because that best pleaseth your humour And this is the very closet of your cause and pride of your proofes touching hell paines suffered in the Soule of Christ Neword ne letter of Scripture to warrant it but as you wrested Pauls wish to foure notable vntruths so you sweep vp Christs sweate to make perfect your Pageant that from things obscure vnknowen and doubted with all men as touching the precise and particular cause thereof you may resolue what you list and tiâ—… your Conclusions with cart-ropes of vanitie and falsitie a Defenâ—… pag. 100. 〈◊〉 28. But you say pag. 26. you should put 25. the sorrow and feare of death which it pleased our Sauiour to feele in oâ—…r nature came not for want of strength but of purpose to quench and abolish those affections in vs. I say it came from both And I say you doe not onely rashly crosse Saint Austen in that Negatiue but you know not what you say For the question is not whether feare and sorrow be infirmities which is your wise conceite but whether Christ admitted them by his power and will or by constraint and necessitie which Saint Austen there calleth infirmitie and I named want of strength His words a man would thinke are so resolute that without better ground then you haue any a sober Diuine would not so proudlie confront them b August in Iohannem tract 60. Non est 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 dubitandum non â—…um 〈◊〉 infirmitate sed 〈◊〉 turbatum It is by no meanes to be doubted that Christ was troubled not for any weaknesse of minde but of his owne power What saith your wisedome to this Austen meaneth not onely by infirmitie but also by his owne will and power Coherent and different things may be thus coupled together because both may be true and diuerse respects may reconcile contraries but in one and the same sentence and sense to harle priuations and positions whereof the one excludeth the other as you doe is to make no construction but a contradiction in Saint Austens words As if a man should say this answere of yours is not onely foolish but also wise not onely vnlearned but also learned weâ—…e it not ridiculous And yet you knit Saint Austens words together in that sort where if the one be true the other is false For if Christ were troubled by infirmitie and necessitie then was he not by his power and will as Austen auoucheth he was Wherefore you hit Saint Austens meaning as rightly as if a man should post to London Bridge with his backe towards it or else you confute him your selfe as how because I say with Austen Christ admitteth these affections and infirmities of mans nature not for want of power to represâ—…e them but by volunâ—…arie obedience and humilitie that in him they might be meritorious Then how these affections preuailed on Christs Soule is the Question whether by necessitie Christ not being able to resist them or moderate them which is the weaknesse of mans nature or by his owne submission when he would as he would and to what ende he would c August in Iohannem tract 49. Thou art troubled saith Austen against thy will Christ was troubled because he would In illius potestate erat sic vel sic â—…ffici vel non affici It was in his power to be affected thus or thus or not to be affected Where there is soueraigne power there infirmitie is gouerned according to the direction of the will He must be ruler and commaunder of nature by his power that was not troubled with any affections or infirmities but according to the liking of his owne will So was it in Christ. d August ibidem tract 60. Non â—…rgo est aliquo cogente turbatus Affectum quippe humanum quando oportuisse iudicauit in seipso potestate commouit Christ was not troubled by the compulsion of any For when he thought it needfull he did stirre in himselfe by his owne power humane affections If to raise feare and sorrow within himselfe when he would were power aboue nature and no humane infirmitie as also to appoint how farre they should preuaile in him what was it then by the power of these affections in him to represse and temper all our infirmities and affections and to endue vs with heauenly grace and courage to resist and restraine the excesse of those affections in our weake natures was it power or infirmitie in Christ thus to worke either in himselfe or in vs It was power no doubt in Christ to limit the time degree and force of those affections which his will would admit and in all these things the lesse necessitie of nature vrged him the more acceptable was his obedience vnto God that would
impressed in them by Gods power and will though whiles strength and memorie dure they may be so confirmed in their good or euill purposes that they doe not yeeld so long as they can make resistance This naturall horror of death which mans soule hath impressed in her by Gods owne doing if Christ would admit in the Garden priuately before his Father as obedient to his ordinance not openly before his enemies to whom he would shew nothing but patience and constance aboue all malefactors and martyrs what force haue your examples to refute this since Christ voluntarily shewed that in the Garden which the soules of all men naturally doe when the feare or force of death falleth on them k Petri Martyris loci communes class 2. loco 1. sect 51. Omnes pij statuunt in morte irâ—… diuinae sensum esse ideoque sua natura dolorem horrorem incutit quod Christus ipse dum or aret in horto alij multi sancti viri declarauerunt All the godly saith Peter Martyr resolue there is a sense of Gods wrath in bodily death and therefore by the nature thereof it striketh a feare and terrour into vs which Christ himselfe when he prayed in the Garden and many other holy men haue declared To let you farther see that your Malefactors and Martyrs doe not prooue that Christ might not shew himselfe afrayd of death in the Garden though in patience and constancie he exceeded all mankinde when he came to the present feeling of his paines you shall heare the iudgement of S. Austen affirming that Christ by this voluntarie Christ would be like the weake to comfort the weake feare would of mercie conforme himselfe to his weake members for their comfort lest they should despaire when they feele the feare of death oppressing them l August in Iohannem tract 60. Firmissimi quidem Christiani si qui sunt qui nequaquam morte imminente turbantur Sed numquid Christo fortiores Quis hoc insanissimus dixerit Quid est ergo quod ille turbatus est nisi quia infirmos in suo corpore hoc est in sua Ecclesia suâ—… infirmitatis voluntaria similitudine consolatus est c. They are indeed most setled Christians if there be any such which are not troubled when death approcheth But are they stronger than Christ Who will so say though he were neuer so madde What is it then that Christ was troubled therewith but because by the voluntarie shew of his weaknesse he did comfort those that were weake in his bodie which is his Church that if any of his were troubled with the approching of death they should in spirit beholde him lest thinking themselues by this fearefulnesse to be reprobates they should be swallowed vp with a woorse death of desperation And elswhere with admiration of Christes goodnesse for this verie cause m Idem in Iohannem tract 52. O Lord sayth he God aboue vs Man for vs I acknowledge thy mercy for in that thou being so great wouldest of thy loue be voluntarily troubled by n Ibidem taking the affection of thy members thou doest comfort many in thy bodie the Church which are necessarily troubled with this their infirmitie lest by despairing they should perish So that neither of these wayes Martyrs nor Malefactours are stronger than Christ though he feared death which you imagine they do not but Christ either in respect of his Fathers ordinance against sinne shewed that conflict with death in himselfe which the soules of all men haue naturally be they Martyrs or Malefactors before they depart their bodies or els of mercie towards vs he would voluntarily assume our weaknesse in the Garden lest we should despaire when we feele the stroke and terrour of death as by his example on the crosse he ledde vs to immooueable patience and confidence in all our afflictions Some Malefactors you say despise death often smile in their torments Being hardened in their sinnes and obstinate against God they may haue either stupefaction of sense by Satans meanes to encourage others to the like wickednesse by their contempt of death or els obduration in their mischiefe till the time of repentance be past but their soules that so stifly contemne Gods iudgements haue another maner of terror before they forsake their bodies when indeed it is too late for want of sense and memorie to call for grace And the Martyrs themselues as all good Christians that are resolued not only quietly to suffer but to desire death that they may be with Christ are by Gods grace preserued in that minde so long as vnderstanding and faith preuaile but when the powers of the soule are ouerwhelmed by the violent paines and pangues of death she is by Gods ordinance in all mankinde and euen in the All feele the sting of death which Christ expressed before 〈◊〉 aied faithfull suffered to feele the touch and sting of bodily death which is fully knowen to none but to God that ordained it and to herselfe that feeleth it though this agonie of death be shortened or succoured as pleaseth God of his mercie to dispose in euery man and in Gods elect this anguish though it be very sharpe for the time turneth to their good and his glorie God supporting and comforting the soules of his Saints with hope of a better life Your reasons therefore are all idle and impertinent which you draw from the patience of Martyrs or stifnesse of Malefactors For admitting all that to be true which Martyrs by grace and Malefactors of pertinacie performe in their torments whiles strength and memorie serue them yet haue they both their conflicts with death when they can neither speake nor expresse what they feele and malefactors a most fearefull confusion when repentance being past which they neglected their soules are now suffered to see the terrours and torments of hell into which they shall presently depart And this naturall anguish of death which assaulteth all men when the soule feeleth the strangenesse and bitternesse of her diuorce from the bodie Christ might purposely â—…uffer to arise in himselfe in the Garden that tasting it with perfect sense and memorie he might sustaine it with greater patience and obedience though it were very painfull than all mankinde besides o Defenc. pag. 101. li. 20. All your answeare is malefactours are no fit comparison for the sonne of God for they are desperate not hauing any feare or care of God till they feele the force of his wrath in hell fire What an answeare is this The answeare is â—…itter and fuller then your wit serueth you to vnderstand or your learning to refute For this ignorant or desperate contempt of Gods iudgment which you alleage in malefactors Christ might not follow since he rightly discerned and religiously feared Gods displeasure against sinne euen in the death inflicted on the body of man So that Christ shewed an humble regard of Gods punishment with due feare and sorow which
nemo anxietatem euasit nemo egrediente anima sine amaritudine expirauit This griefe nâ—… man hath euer escaped nor any euer breathed out his soule without bitternesse And Martyrs no doubt doe or should priuately in their prayers to God see the sharpenesse of death in respect of their strength and confesse the iustnesse of this punishment layed on all men for sinne and so with all religious feare and most earnest prayer to God for his assistance and defence against the terrour of death approch their endes though the cause for which they die should comfort them and make them cheerefull in the eyes of all their aduersaries when they haue first giuen God his due and reposed themselues on his heauenly protection Euen so did Christ teach vs by his example who to his Father in the Garden confessed the naturall horror of death which he would feele and felt for our sakes and after to his persecutours shewed no such thing but readily met them willingly offered himselfe to them and patiently endured whatsoeuer paine they heaped on him c Cyprianus de Passione Domini Latens in humanitate omnipotentiate Discipulis pauidum coram per secutoribus terribilem exhibebat Omnipotencie couered in mans nature shoâ—…ed thee fearefull to thy Disciples and terrible to thy persecutours sayth Cyprian of Christ. When Christ was carried bound to the President hee was not suppliant to the Sergeants yea he despised he greatnesse of Herod and Pilate de impietate malitia suauitas pietasque Christi triumphat and the mildnesse and godlinesse of Christ triumphed ouer the malice and wickednesse of his persecuters d Defenc. pag. 102. li 26. You answere if death be not fearefull to the seruants of Christ they are the more bound to their Lord and Master who was the first that by death disarmed death and seuered death and hell What is this to our reason Enough and more than enough if your captious head would conceiue it right For Christ tooke from death all destroying power ouer the Elect and from them all amazed and confounding feare which others finde in death and so not only by his example taught them to resort to God with prayer for comfort against the terrour of death but by his agonie enabled them to goe securely and quietly to their deaths notwithstanding the horror thereof since he will helpe them in the midst of that miserie and receiue them with glorie when others thinke them swallowed vp with death e Defenc. pag. 103. li. 10. By breaking the knot betwixt death hell he could not be so wofully affected afflicted aboue measure as he was if he did not suffer by them somwhat extraordinarily Vnto Christ might feele somewhat extraordinary yet not the pains of hell this you haue nothing to answer Are the pains of hell the death of the damned come now to SOMEWHAT EXTRAORDINARIE Heere may the Reader see the verie depth of all your new doctrine It was SOMEWHAT that Christ SVFFERED or FEARED in the Garden ergo it was the second death and the pains of the damned All your idle and erroneous illations and amplifications of martyrs and malefactors end now in SOMEWHAT if you could tell what and because you knowe not what it was you will imagine what you list I doe not doubt but it was somewhat extraordinarie that mooued Christ to this feare sorow and intentiue Prayer after comfort receaued from heauen by an Angell although I dare not determine what it was which the Scriptures doe not expresse much lesse presume it to be the second death as you doe against the Scriptures or frame a new hell of the damned for Christes soule to pay our ransome thereby to crosse the whole course of the word of God teaching and assuring vs the bloud of Christ was the price of our Redemption I see many things extraordinarie or rather nothing wholy ordinarie in the son of God specially at the time of our redemption which he alone for the innocencie and excellency of his person and power could and did throughly performe Yea euen in his agonie though some thinges might be common to him with man yet none of those thinges could be sustained by any man as they were by him And therefore your somwhat betraieth your presumption when thence you inferre what you best like because the Scripture hath not acquainted you with euery secret affection or action that was required in mans saluation g Defenc. pag. 103. li 22. It was not therefore that only but some other death farre more dreadfull and intolerable which made Christ man being also God in such wise to tremble and quake I hope you doe not meane that Christes godhead trembled at your other death or was subiect to any humane feares or miseries nor that your other death was so dreadfull that his diuine power could not keepe him from trembling and quaking at it It was no small part of Christes obedience and humilitie to lay aside his strength when he suffered for our sinnes and not by power to resist repulse or ease the paines which his passion should bring but with exact sense to feele it and with woonderfull patience to indure it Neither was it no part of Christes purpose by his sorrow and feare in the Garden to giue vs to vnderstand that he would vse no power which he might easily haue done to diminish the vehemency or sense of the paines prepared for him least his so sauing himselfe from smart by his secret power should delude Gods Iustice impaire his loue to vs and put vs in despaire of following his example since we had no power to succour ourselues as we might imagine of him had he not by naturall and euident signes of true feare and sorow confirmed vnto vs that he felt his afflictions as much as we doe ours and will helpe our infirmitie and ease our miserie though he would not spare himselfe So that hence a good Christian would collect Christes submission to the weakest degree of mans infirmitie and his communion with vs in tasting the sharpest of our sorowes and not exaggerate his power to make him capable of the second death g Reuel 21. which is the lake burning with fire and brimstone as the Scriptures affirme and consequent not antecedent to the first death as you dreame in Christes case besides that the h Reuel 14. smoke of their torments which are cast into this lake ascendeth euermore and they haue no rest night nor day i Defenc. pag. 103. li. 25. Indeed Christ had farre greater cause as you say to feare euen his bodily death then any of his members haue For it was therefore because death approched vnto him clasped fast with hell so that he could not by the ordinance of God meddle with the one but he must feele the other My wordes enlarged and peruerted by you may seeme to make some musicke for you but of themselues they are true and no way touch
the one after the other that S. Iohn confirmeth it with his owne i vers 35. sight lest so strange a thing should not be beleeued k Defenc. pag. 106. li. 35. Though it be against the common course of our nature for any paines or feare to sweate bloud yet the diuine power with and through paines and feares might wring out of his body that trickling bloudy sweate As it is plaine that it did by the wordes next before in the text an Angell came to giue him some comfort Your head was troubled about some waighty worke when one sentence wrang from you such contrarieties and falsities But the l Pag. 105. li. 38. Page before you tooke speciall exception against me if I did not thinke that Christ was vrged to his bloudy sweate for thereof you speake in that place by violence of paines or feare procuring it in him NATVRALLY here you say it is against the common course of our nature for any paines or feare to sweat bloud Could it be naturally procured in Christ and yet against the common course of our nature againe if it be against the common course of our nature for any paines or feare to sweate bloud by what reason or authority doe you conclude hell paines out of Christes bloudy sweate for if no paines or feare can by the course of our nature procure a bloudy sweate how know you that Christ did sweate bloud for paines or for feare for hell paines you will say he might Not by any course of our nature For then all his members which at one time or other feele the like which Christ felt should sweate bloud as Christ did But that I trust is sensiblely false The diuine power might wring it out of his body So it may raise Children to Abraham out of stones Doth that inferre that men are made of stones and might not the diuine power wring this sweate for that is your phrase out of Christes bodie as well without hell paines as with them is it hard for God to make a man sweat bloud without the paines of the damned It is plaine that it did by the words next before in the text Doth the text name hell paines or the feare of hell what will you not aduenture that thus presume to outface the Scriptures the text nameth many thinges before and you like your crafts-master will make your choise though the Scripture doe not expresse what was the cause thereof The words next before the text are an Angell came to giue him comfort Then comfort belike cast him into this bloudy sweate if the wordes next before declare the cause thereof which were very strange that a man by comfort should be cast into a bloudy sweate Why may not I rather say that the vision of an Angell put him rather into this sweate then the comfort which was brought him since Daniel was m Dan. 8. v. 27. stroken sicke and astonished with a vision as diuers others of Gods saints haue beene yet I thinke neither of these to be the cause of that sweate but as I say in my Sermons it might be voluntary either for signification as Austen Prosper Bede and Bernard do thinke or for sanctification and consecration of his person and sacrifice answeareable to the manner of the legall oblation prefiguring this as the trueth or for vehement contention of spirit in praier which indeed is the next thing mentioned before his sweate and shewed his desire and zeale to be more then humane for the Redeeming and reconciling of man to God by the shedding of his bloud n Defenc. pag. 106. li. 27. You conclude that Christes agony demonstrating Christs Priesthood must not rise from the terror of his owne death and yet a little before you openly confesse and graunt that his agony did rise from the feare of his death The effect of Christes Priest-hood performed in the garden must in no wise concerne himselfe For he was not a Priest to make intercession or to offer sacrifice for himselfe but for vs. And therefore his praiers then vttered in his agonie with strong cries and teares if they pertained to his Priesthood they were made for vs and not for himselfe and declared his voluntarie profering and presenting his body and bloud to Gods pleasure to be the sacrifice for mans Redemption and his feruent supplications to haue it accepted as the full Ransome for his elect that the accuser and supplanter of his Church might be remooued from Gods presence and wholy subiected vnder Christes feete Now if this desire and offer for vs must not only be voluntarie but inflamed with wonderfull vehemencie then would not Christ sweat bloud for any terror of his owne death but for his infinite feruency to preuaile and obtaine his petition for vs. You permix Christes feare and his feruent zeale together and call the whole action his agonie though it containe both feare conceaued at first when he approched Gods presence in iudgement for sinne and comfort receaued at last by message brought from Heauen and out of this confusion you collect what you list and say what you please to no purpose That Christ might haue a naturall feare of death I then said and yet see no cause to recall it but that I said Christ did sweate bloud for feare of his bodily death this is one of your painted faces with which you would outface the trueth Howbeit this persisting in your ignorant folly without remembring or regarding what is said on the other side argueth ridiculous negligence or malitious diligence of which because I haue already spoken I will say no more o Defenc. pag. 106. li. 33. Why should Hilarie deny that Christes bloudy sweat came of infirmity or Austen that Christes feare and perturbation was of infirmity Because they had learned iudgments and sober considerations in these matters which you want They beheld Christes power which no force of hell or Satan could impeach but where and when himselfe would permit They saw the innocencie and integrity of Christes humane nature which could not be tossed nor troubled with inward affections but when and how farre he was content to admit them They knew the infinite loue of God to his son for whose sake we were all beloued and adopted and that the father was so farre from tormenting the soule of his sonne with his immediate hand that p Iohn 17. he gaue him power ouer all flesh and q Iohn 13. gaue all things into his hands euen before his death and against the time of his agony in the garden Wherefore as the r Iohn 14. Prince of this world had nought in him and for that cause neither sinne nor corruption were found in him and s Iohn 10. no man tooke his soule from him but he laid it downe of himselfe so neither necessity nor infirmitie of our nature could oppresse or possesse him but he must first giue place to it by his will and guide it by
patience whereby we might be assured that he felt his afflictions on the Crosse with quicker sense and greater paines then we are able with any patience to endure And is this all that now you would say that Christ found no ioy in his paines what Cow-keeper doth not know that paine is paine and not ioy but was Christes paine such that it excluded his soule from the remembrance or sense of all Gods graces so richly powred on him and promises so faithfully made vnto him you were best come in with your mooueable fittes of astonishment and tell vs that in one and the same sentence when Christ said My God my God he was in full and perfect assurance and assistance of Gods fauour whom els he could not call his God if he felt no comfort in him that is the God of all comfort and when he pronounced the next syllable why he presently fell into a sudden pangue where he was forsaken and left all comfortlesse and alone according to your deuices And if any man be so wise to let you lead him through such thornes as to graunt in Christ on the Crosse sometimes hope of glorie and sometimes feare of confusion sometimes comfort and suddainly distrust of his saluation sometimes Gods fauour and full assistance as in affliction and by and by the second death and the paines of the damned he may dally with faith and infidelity with heauen and hell with Christ and Beliall as you doe But if it were not possible for Christ crucified being the wisdome and power of God to be tossed and tumbled with such contrarie blasts then hath the forsaking which he complained of an other manner of sense then you imagine And whatsoeuer meaning you ascribe vnto it you may not with a word that admitteth diuers interpretations impugne the plaine and open wordes and deeds of our Sauiour in which is no question As when the high Priest asked him e Mar. 14. art thou Christ the sonne of the blessed Iesus said I am and ye shall see the sonne of man sit at the right hand of power and come in the cloudes of heauen And when the Theefe that was crucified with him said vnto him f Luc. 22. Lord remember me when thou comest into thy kingdome he answeared Verily I say vnto thee to day shalt thou be with me in Paradise As also breathing out his soule he said g Ibidem Father into thine hands I commend my spirit If to be the sonne of God and to sit at Gods right hand in glory if to dispose of Paradise at his pleasure and to commit his spirit into his Fathers hands be no signes nor proofes of comfort and ioy then let your exposition beare some shew but if these be more then arguments of most excellent honour and glory not onely reserued for him and confirmed vnto him but assumed and professed by him euen when he was condemned and crucified who that had any care of trueth or respect to reason would auouche that Christs h Defenc. pag. 108. li 9. godhead gaue him for that season of his passion no sense nor feeling of comfort and ioy neither in spirit soule nor body i Defenc. pag. 108. li. 16. This was that extreame humiliation and exinâ—…nition of nature wherein God spared not his sonne and wherein Christ spared not himselfe If you may sit iudge not only ouer Prophets and Apostles but ouer Christ himselfe you will soone appoint him to suffer what pleaseth you but when you come to make proofe thereof you betray the violence of your spirits that must haue all thinges giue way to your wills and the weakenesse of your iudgements that discerne not humility from infidelity nor religious patience from hellish astonishment k Philip. 2. Exinanition and humiliation the Apostle nameth in Christ but either voluntary and either in comparison of his diuine glory and maiesty wherein being equall with his father he tooke on him the forme of a seruant and Christ emptied himselfe of glory not of gracâ—… humbled himselfe becomming obedient to the death of the crosse The Apostle neither saith nor meaneth that Christ emptied himselfe of all grace or comfort in his whole humane nature but laid aside the vse and shew of his diuine power and honour whiles for loue to vs he performed the worke of our redemption in the shape of a seruant and became obedient vnto the death of the crosse which was painefull and shamefull but not astonished with the paines of the damned nor subiected to the second death This is your yarne which you would faine weaue into the Apostles words but truth and falshood haue no fellowship no more haue your dreames and the Apostles doctrine As much it maketh for you that God spared not his owne sonne but gaue him for vs all whence you may as well conclude that God adiudged his sonne to euerlasting destruction and damnation for that were indeed not to spare him as that he inflicted on him the true paines of hell least he should seeme to spare him The Apostles wordes expound themselues God spared not his sonne but gaue him for vs This giuing him into the hands of sinners for our sakes was Gods not sparing him otherwise that God spared him in nothing which either his power was able to impose or our sinnes did deserue this is doctrine for him that meaneth to be an Apostata from all faith and trueth to set the father at as great enmity with his sonne as our sinnes did deserue or could prouoke The higth of Christs not sparing himselfe was as the Apostle teacheth his obedience vnto the death of the Crosse if you will haue Christs obedience stretch to the second death of the damned you must get you some new Scriptures these that are already written witnesse no such thing How beâ—…t you will lacke no Scripture For rather then you will acknowledge your want in that behalfe you will make euery Chapter throughout the Bible to speake of your dreames For euen * 〈◊〉 pag. 〈◊〉 heere you quote Deutero 10 17 and Luc 16 17 in the first of which places the Scripture saith l Deut. 10. 17. The Lord your God is God of Gods and Lord of Lords a great God mightie and terrible which accepteth no persons nor taketh rewards What is this to Christes sufferings or to the paines of the damned was it after noone or after midnight when you quoted these places you knew not why nor wherefore So play you with Luc 16 17. where it is said m Luc. 16. 17. It is more easie that heauen and earth should passe away then that one tittle of the Law should fall Will you hence inferre which is the thing that you should prooue ergo Christ was forsaken of all outward and inward comfort and ioy besides you no man hath the grace to make such faire and cleare demonstrations of your doctrine n Defenc pag. 108. li. 21. This forsaking or
for saken of God whose cause to reconcile them 〈◊〉 then vndertookest and as a most skillfull Patron for seruants thou didest not disdaine to take the person of a seruant and SO FARRE thou didst compassionate the weake that thou wast neither afraid nor ashamed to be crucified and to dy leauing for a time thine owne higth and emptying the maiesty of thy glory that the dispersed might returne and the forsaken might take breath or comfort The forsaking which Cyprian here describeth in Christ consisteth in leauing of his diuine power and glory for a time and in abasing himselfe SO FARRE as to dy the death of the Crosse for their sakes but no farder And these wordes he saith Christ would haue vnderstoode to be a cause of their Reconciliation to God who had deserued for their sinnes to be forsaken of God and therefore he addeth presently f 〈◊〉 I consider thee Lord on that crosse where thou seemedst without helpe or forsaken how with an Emperiall power thou didst send the theefe before to thy kingdome by assuming of whom it is manifest how much thou hadst preuailed for those that were forsaken You would faine so wrest Cyprians wordes that he should say Christ vndertooke our cause and no more but he withall affirmeth that Christ tooke vpon him our person and that his carefull complaint were the wordes of his beloued If the wordes were spoken as well in our person as in our cause then we were indeed forsaken and Christ by laying downe his glorie for a time and obeying his fathers will did by those wordes declare that he reconciled vs to God when we were forsaken and in signe thereof with full power made the theefe partaker of his kingdome that had deserued and was condemned to die the death of a for lorne and forsaken malefactour g Defenc. pag. 109. li. 2. If you thincke they ment that Christ spake this by some strange metonimy naming himselfe but meaning his Church that can haue no good sense I shall not need to tell you The first sense of 〈◊〉 complaint on the Crosse. what I thinke let them speake themselues what they ment and when you haue heard their meaning out of their owne wordes you shall see how much you abused Cyprian to make him speake that he neuerment It is plaine enough which Athanasius saith h Athanaâ—…ius de incarnatione Christi Christ spake those wordes in our person for he was neuer forsaken of God and Austen is as euident i August epist. 120. why disdaine we to heare the voice of the body by the mouth of the head to me that is to my body my church and my litle ones So was it said why hast thou forsaken me euen as it was said he that receaueth you receaueth me No doubt we were in those wordes and the head did speake for his body And likewise Leo k Leo Serm. 16. de Pâ—…ss Dom. Christ spake those wordes in the voice of his Redeemed Neither are they alone in this opinion Theodoret satith l Theodoret. iâ—… Psalm 21. because Christ was the head of mans nature he speaketh for the whole nature of man So Bede m 〈◊〉 a in Psal. 21. Quare dereliquistime idestmeos ideo scilicet quia longè te fecerunt peccata esse à salute mea id est meorum Hec verbaplane innuunt caput non in persona sua hic loqui Quomodo enim derelictus vellonge à salute factus posset esse ille Why hast thou forsaken me that is mine because sinne did put thee farre from sauing me that is mine These words do plainly prooue that the head doth not here speake in his owne person For how could he possiblely be forsaken or remooued from saluation And Euthymius n 〈◊〉 in Psal. 21. The Lord taketh vnto him the person of mans nature as lincked to him and saith why hast thou forsaken me now a man that is the whole nature of man And Damascene o 〈◊〉 Orthodoxe fidei li. 3. ca. 24. Christ was neuer forsaken of his owne Godhead but we were those that were forsaken and despised Wherefore appropriating our person he praied in that sort And expressing what it is to appropriate or assume an others person he saith As when a man doth put on an others person of piety or charitic and in his steed vseth speach for him 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which agreeth not vnto himselfe If then we take dereliction for the want of Gods fauour spirit and grace as these Fathers doe it is euident Christ could not so be forsaken and consequently these wordes in that sense which is proper to the Children of Gods wrath could not agree to the person of Christ though it were true in his members that they by nature were forsaken and destitute of grace till he reconciled them to God and diffused his spirite into their harts to make them partakeâ—…s of his holinesse And as for the strangenesse of the metonimy count you that strange which Christ vseth in one Chapter more then thirty times and find you no strangenesse in your conceits which are no where throughout the Scriptures either expressed or so much as coherent with the continuall speach and plaine rules of the Scriptures p Defenc. pag. 109. li. 5. That can haue no good sense For how can it be that we were forsaken of God when Christ was on the Crosse Nay euen then and there we were purchased vnto God not forsaken by God Doth any man vse when he would make reasons for his opinion to refuâ—…e himselfe as you doe we were purchased you say on the Crosse vnto God you must adde by the bloud of his sonne which was also God for that Saint Paul in the plâ—…ce which you cite nameth as the true and right price of this purchase God purchased his Church with his owne bloud and not by the direfull paines of hell as your braine hath lately broched Now if we were purchased on the Crosse then till we were purchased we were enstranged from God and so forsaken of him And what hindreth this complaint or prayer of Christs to beare witnesse that we were now reconciled and purchased vnto God which before were forsaken and separated from God For those words doe not imply that we still continued forsaken but that formerly without Christ we were vtterly forsaken and now by him restored to fauour And the goodnesse of this sense I doe not thinke but any man of meane capacitie will soone conceaue and iudge it more fruitfull for vs to know that by Christs mediation and oblation on the crosse we are now no longer strangers vnto God nor forsaken of him as before we were for our sinnes then that Christ suffered the direfull and infernall paines and death of the damned in his Soule before we could be freed from our sinnes For of the first there can be no question and of the second you neither haue nor euer shall be able to bring one
line or letter of holy Scripture q Defenc pag. 109. li. 7. Againe your owne rule is which I like well that no figure is to be admitted in Scriptures where there is no ill nor hurtfull sense following litterally But I haâ—…e shewed a little before a plaine easie and Christian sense hereof taking it litterally The rule is most needfull to preserue the right sense of the Scripture For if euery man may elude with figures that which liketh not his humour we shall haue little truth left in the word of God But euen by that rule your sense of Christs complaint is quite ouerthrowen because your exposition plainly fastneth desperation for the time to the Soule of Christ. For all hope hath ioy and comfort in it r Rom. 12. Reioycing in hope saith the Apostle If then Christ neuer forsaken of hope and comfort Christ for that season of his Passion were all comfortlesse as you pretend and had no sense nor feeling of any comfort or ioy he had no hope for hope bringeth ioy and comfort And what is no hope but despaire that therefore the litterall sense of these words neither is nor can be true taking dereliction for the inward forsaking of Gods grace and spirit as well the Scriptures as the Fathers whom I haue produced doe with one voice confirme Saint Austen may serue to shew the reason that led him and the rest so to thinke s August in Psal. 43. Ille caput nostrum vocem de cruce non dixit suam sed nostram non enim vnquam dereliquit eum Deus sed propter nos dixit hoc Deus Deus meus vt quid me dereliquisti Christ our head vttered not his owne words but ours For God neuer at any time forsooke him But for vs he said My God my God why hast thou forsaken me t Defenc. pag. 109. li. 19. Finally this first sense is contrarie to your second and third following also to your fift and sixt senses If either of these be taken as the true meaning of this place it cannot possibly stand with the rest I did not professe to discusse the likeliest sense of those words It sufficed me to let you see the weaknesse of your cause in deriuing your hell paines from Christs complaint on the crosse by this that twelue auncient and learned Fathers did diuersly sift and examine those words and yet none of them euer lighted on your second death or on the forsaking which you labour to establish in the soule of Christ. Now if the words doe tolerably beare so many interpretations what assurance had you thence to conclude your hellish confusion which you imagine in the Sauiour of the world yea graunt the expositions were contrarie which indeed are somewhat different according as the word of dereliction is applied and intended that maketh the more against you and hindereth not me For still I vrge the words which you stand on do necessarily inferre no such sense as you would fasten to them The thing that I presse is this that there are many other senses of these words approoued and preferred by the consent of the best writers old and new and yours of all others as it hath no consent of Christs Church ne was euer heard of before our age so hath it no foundation in the Sacred Scriptures You would disgrace the Fathers as iuuentors of strange and new senses but you little remember all this while that of all others yours is the latest absurdest and least likely sense of that complaint And yet if you wrest it to the lowest step of dereliction that this life knoweth or the Scripture here 〈◊〉 it may amount to desperation but neuer to reall and actuall damnation u Defenc. pag. 109. li. 23. Your second sense what is it euen this that Christs humane Nature was left helplesse to the rage of the Iewes which is a kind of forsaking This seemeth to come neerest indeede to your liking but as I said thiâ—… is directly contrarie to your first sense and to the rest following They that giue diuerse senses of any places in Scripture doe not meane they The second sense of Christes complaint on the crosse shall be wholy like or the same for then they were not diuerse but according to the varietie of significations and circumstances offered by the words they varie their expositions So here if we take dereliction for losse of grace then that sense of the word could not agree to Christ but to the reprobate without Christ or to the rest before they be engraffed into Christ and consequently me in Christs words must signifie my Members that were one body with him If we take it for lacke of helpe in time of trouble then it might well agree vnto the person of Christ who was forsaken that is left in his affliction and not deliuered from it till he died that we might euer after be restored and reconciled to the fauour of God Which commeth neerest to my liking I neuer acquainted you the places which you quote prooue no such thing they onely shew that this exposition hath sufficient foundation in other places of Scripture where the word forsaking is vsed to the like intent Howbeit there is no cause that I or you should mislike this exposition and the trifles which you obiect against it will confirme as much x Defenc. pag. 109. li. 29. There is surely no reason nor shew of Reason that Christ should here so mournfully and so â—…ncomfortably complaine that God had forsaken him if it were onely but for such distresses as the godly also doe equally suffer at the hands of euill men Had you but perused the places by which you conclude my liking of this Exposition you should haue seene Reason and reason enough for Christ to be thus affected in his extreame miseries as well as his Church is in the like or lesse Had the Church of God no reason to say in the Prophet Esay y Esa. 49. The Lord hath forsaken me or did God want reason in his answere when he said z Esa. 54. ver 7. for a while I forsooke thee for a moment in mine anger I hid my face from thee If then God had Reason to say to his Church a Ibid. ver 6. the Lord hath called thee a woman forsaken and afflicted in spirit could Christ want reason in his intolerable paines on the Crosse to complaine that he was now a long time left in them without helpe or ease as for the equall sufferings of the godly at the hands of men on which you would take aduantage I haue shewed the difference before When paines in others grow sharpest then sense decaieth and'death approcheth in the paines whereof men cannot expresse how much nature misliketh and abhorreth the paine In Christ it was otherwise his bodie being in exquisite paines on euery side and in euery part from Christs patience was at the highest proof before he complained on the
Creed how we were saued and what is the price of our Redemption specially the Scriptures going so cleare with them and they teaching so closely and soundly the trueth there expressed d Defenc. pag. 110. li. 9. These very sentences of the fathers I can easily admit if they import no more then that those outward afflictions on the Crosse were SOME CAVSES AND THAT NO SMAL of his complaint alwaies remembring that some greater cause also did concurre and was conioined with them Then by your owne confession haue the fathers spoken trueth and there was small or no cause giuen you to make so light regard of them As for your other greater cause when you prooue by Scripture as you intend that Christs soule on the crosse suffered the second death and the paines of the damned you shall haue a speciall reseruation that your fansies may be conioined with Christs praiers otherwise your reasons be like your resolutions they haue neither proofe nor strength besides your owne priuate and presumptuous perswasions e Defenc. pag. 110. li. 14. Your third sense if I conceiue it aright is that his being left to bodily death caused him thus to mourne which is but as the last before And yet you seeme to meane not only that but also because his flesh now should want all feeling of his heauenly comfort for that while that it should remaine dead A maruailous exquisite and farre fet cause The sense is neither mine nor so farre fet as you would make it I tooke it out of Tertullian Hilarie and The third sense of Christs complaint on the crosse Epiphanius whose wordes I produced to that purpose and howsoeuer you gibe at it after your scornefull maner I suppose it will prooue sounder then your hellish death which you haue so learnedly deuised out of their words The difference betwixt this and the former sense is not great For there the fathers ment Christ was forsaken that is not deliuered from the rage of his persecutors whiles he liued and these doe adde that he was left vnto death presuming death to be the greatest and most grieuous of all outward afflictions which in this life befall the nature of man f Defenc. pag. 110. li. 19. Yet me thinks as this crosseth your other expositions here so it is flat contrarie to the Scripture also If the expositions were contrary each to other so long as they be sundrie mens and repeated onely by me to shew how many senses haue beene deliuered in the Church of Christ by learned and auncient Fathers touching that complaint or praier of Christ which you would faine abuse to hatch your hell-paines what els note you by their contratiety but the diuersity of mens iudgements vpon these words all which conioined in this against you that Christes complaint on the crosse may diuersly be conceaued according to the different acceptions of forsaking and yet your paines of the damned haue no place in that variety or contrariety of â—…enses But this third sense you say is flat contrarie to the Scripture That were worth the hearing indeed if your foolish conceits were not farre more likely to crosse both themselues the Scriptures then iustly to controle the iudgements of so learned fathers But what is this great ouersight that is so much repugnant to the Scripture the Scripture g Ibid. li. 21. giueth after a sort to Christes dead flesh this LIVELY AFFECTION my flesh shall rest in hope The soule of Christ which was replenished with life trueth and grace as being personally vnited vnto God and of whose fullnesse we all haue receaued you affirme died on the Crosse and none other death then the second death and Christs flesh lying dead in the graue you imagine not only to haue life but to be a liuing spirit For you giue vnto it the liuely affection of hope which nothing hath that is not a liuing and reasonable soule or more You doe it you will say but after a sort That sort is absurd inough of figuratiue speaches in the Scriptures to make positiue doctrines For if you defend that the dead flesh of Christ in the graue had indeed any liuely affection of hope in part or in whole it is a brutish heresie denying that Christ was truely dead and that his body was truely flesh since a liuely hope impoâ—…teth not only life but vnderstanding and faith If you graunt these speaches to be figuratiue then doe you betray your folly to thwart the fathers assertions with figuratiue florishes as if they were proper and to pronounce their sayings flat contrary to the Scriptures because you can pike out a word that in outward shew soundeth somewhat strangely Hope in these wordes of Dauid is either applied to the soule of Christ in respect of the resurrection of his body which he beleeued and hoped for as most assured or if we apply it to the body it noteth safety from corruption and promise made by God of speedie resurrection which was the thing wherewith Christs bodie might be inuested But we shall haue mainer proofe for this matter h Defenc. pag. 110. li. 24. Is it likely is it possible that he should so dolefully mourne that either he should bodily dy or that his body should want the sense of his diuine presence so little a while when as in HIS MINDHE SPEAKETH SO TRIVMPHANTLY of his CONSTANT and CONTINVALLIOY IN GOD yea not excluding euen his body though dead from participating in some sort therein as we read in the former place at large I i Act 2. 26 27. BEHEID the Lord alwaies The Defender 〈◊〉 contradicteth his owne doctrine before me for he is at my right hand that I should not bâ—… shaken Therefore did mine heart reioice and my tongue was glad and moreouer my flesh shall rest in hope Now can a man in this EXCEEDING GENERALL and CONSTANTIOY so vncomfortably mourne in that sense as you vrge My God my God why forsakest thou my flesh it cannot be I would not thinke it likely nor possible if I did not see it before mine eies that such a pert Proctour should so proudly despise all auncient writers and fathers that fauour not his faction and yet so palpably confound himselfe and his whole cause with ouermuch prating For Christian Reader I pray thee take no more but his owne confession or assertion in this place by which he thought to ouerbeare all that stood in his way and obserue both how desperatly he contradicteth himselfe and how sensibly he subuerteth his whole doctrine and his deuice of this new found hell But the lease before he told vs peremptorily that k Pa. 108. li. 8. Christes Godhead as it were withdrawing and hiding it selfe from him for that season of his passion gaue him NO SENSE NOR FEELING OF COMFORT OR IOY in spirit soule or body Now suddainly whiles he eagerly hunteth after his hell paines he not onely falleth ouer head and eares into the myre of contradictions
but he clearely confesseth before hand that all which himselfe will say touching the second death of Christes soule on the crosse is apparantly false doctrine and euidently repugnant to the sacred Scriptures Thou wilt maruaile much at this and so doe I but that Liars are often so earnest to serue their turnes and not the trueth that they forget their former tales whiles they inuent newer As here for example He that would before allow to Christ on the crosse NO SENSE NOR FEELING OF COMFORT OR IOY in spirit soule or body Now vrgeth to promote another purpose Christs EXCEEDING GENERALL AND CONSTANT IOY euen at the same time when he spake these wordes My God my God why hast thou forsaken me and not content with this he addeth that Christ euen then IN HIS MIND SPAKE TRIVMPHANTLY OF HIS CONSTANT and CONTINVALL IOY in GOD and prooueth it by the words of the holy Ghost where Dauid being a Prophet spake concerning Christ on the Crosse that he l Acts 2. beheld the Lord alwaies before him at his right hand that he should not be shaken And therefore did Christs hart reioyce and his tongue was glad Vnderstand you sit faith-maker the difference or repugnance betweene NO SENSE NOR FEELING OF COMFORTOR IOY in spirit soule or body A most shamefull contradiction and EXCEEDING GENERALL CONSTANT and TRIVMPHANT IOY in GOD in the mind of Christ can you read this and not thinke you reele as your reasons doe to and fro can you salue this sore without sweating or make vp this breach without blushing and I pray you since the ground of these wordes is true in that it is the holy Ghosts and you may not flie from your owne inference which you presse so violently against the fathers to beate downe their exposition how could Christs Soule on the crosse IN THIS EXCEEDING GENERALL CONTINVALL CONSTANT and TRIVMPHANT IOY OF MIND suffer also the paines of the damned and the second death wherein IS NO SENSE NOR FEELING OF ANY COMFORT OR IOY IN body soule or spirit Can you hang these gymmoes together that the one shall not crie shamefull and intolerable falsehood against the other the best excuse that I can make for your to saue you from ebriety or frensie is that these things were posted ouer to you from diuers that saw not each others fansies and so without due perusing or remembring where they crossed ech other you patched their papers together with more hast then good speed How beit surely I take it to be a iust iudgement of God when you are diuided from the trueth to diuide either your tongues from your harts or your harts from themselues that all men may learne to take heed how they dally with the Christian faith or delude the Scriptures I thanke God I hate you not so much but for your owne sake I could wish you had beene silenter or circumspecter And see how euill you lucke or at least your cause is For heere haue you spoken enough to confute all that you formerly haue said and afterward will say and yet you haue brought nothing to infringe that which I said For a naturall seare and mislike of death as also griefe and sharpnesse of paine in the body may well stand with a continuall and constant comfort in God yea where grace is present and preuaileth the m 2 Cor. 4. perishing of the outward man bringeth the renewing of the inward man and bitter affliction maketh vs seeke after God and call vpon him the more earnestly for his assistance in which case it is most true that Gods n 2. Cor. 12. power is perfected in our infirmity For when I am weake saith the Apostle in body then I am strong in spirit And if Paul could o 2. Cor. 12. delight in reproches persecutions and anguishes for Christes sake and yet feele the smart of them could not Christ retaine comfort in his afflictions though his flesh were pressed with extreame paine Many thinges more may be strongly alleaged against this opinion With such strength as you haue already shewed whereneither words nor matter shall hang together p Defenc. pag. 110 li. 37. As first that seeing he perfectly knew that as his flesh should now quietly rest so his soule should enioy perfect glory and comfort more then before it did That doth not quench the detestation Was there no comfort in all this which mans nature hath of death euen by Gods ordinance though it comfort and courage the soule in hope of future blisse to indure the paine and horrour of death S. Austen saith q August epistola 120. Nemo vnquam carnem suam odio habuit et praeterea non vult anima vel ad tempus abeius etiam insirmitate descedere quamuis 〈◊〉 se sine infirmitate in aeternum recepturamesse confidat Tantam habet vim carnis animae dulce consortium No man euer hated his owne flesh and therefore the soule is not willing to depart euen from the weakenesse of the body for a time though she beleeue that she shall receiue her flesh againe for euer without infirmity Of so great 〈◊〉 is the sweet 〈◊〉 betwixt the soule and the body And so againe r 〈◊〉 tract in 〈◊〉 123. This affection of mans weakenesse whereby no man is willing to die is so naturall that age could not take it from blessed Peter to whom it was said by Christ when 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 old thou shalt be led whither thou wouldest not And to comfort us our 〈◊〉 himselfe assumed and shewed this affection in himselfe when he said Father if it be possible let this cup passe from me So that these respects made Christ the more comfortable in death but by no meanes did vtterly quench the naturall dislike that Christes manhood had and lawfully might haue of death knowing it to be the punishment of sinne and dissolution of our creation though by Gods goodnesse it be now made a passâ—…ge in his to a better life Your next reason is of the same stamp The resurrection of the body maketh no man willing to die if he could with Gods liking decline death but obedience ouerruleth the naturall instinct that God hath impressed in vs to abhorre death And where you take it for a mighty'pillar in your building that Christ s Pa. 111. li. 6. would not so extreamly mourne and complaine only for this cause as my fansie importeth you build but on sand which will haue the greater fall For I shew you many more causes and senses of those words then this only all which you kindly skippe and pretend this only which I neuer professed calling it my fansie that I cited out of auncient and reuerend writers t Defenc. pag. 111. li. 8 Further he knew perfectly that this was the very appointment of God for the obtaining of his most desired purchase of our health for the more aduancing of Gods glorie and for the aduancing of his very manhood Finally it was
the Garden and complained on the Crosse as if he were forsaken which things they thought vnfit for him that was God The Fathers to repell their heresie and to open this obscuritie insist plainly on these points that the Mediatour must be God as well as man and that the Godhead of Christ incarnate was impassible and could not suffer any violence or change but his manhood might and did suffer somethings in soule as feare and sorow and somethings in bodie as paines and death But generally when they speake of death they neuer intend as you doc the death of Christes soule as well as of his bodie but they meane plainly the death of the Crosse described by the Euangelists which is farre from the second death or the death of the damned c Defenc. pag. 111. li. 36. The very same doth Hilarie also where he sayth that this in Christ was Corporis vox The outcrie of his bodie he plainly meaneth it of his whole manhood the opposition being betweene it and his Godhead as the Scripture often doth If your authoritie be such that you may take bodie for soule and life for death where you will you may soone make a shew that the Fathers intend nothing against your doctrine but if you must proue it as well as say it then is it the most riotous and most ridiculous course that can be to take one contrarie for another for so you may proue darknesse to be light vice to be vertue falshood to be trueth and infidelitie to be faith What the Fathers taught touching the death of Christes soule when we come to the place we shall plainly see by their owne asserting and not by your peruerting in the meane time you were best bring stronger proofes than these that you will take the bodie for the soule if you meane to conclude any thing out of the Fathers for your croslegged doctrine d Trea. pag. 9. The Scripture often doth the like you say as you haue shewed in your Treatise There you haue childishly abused a number of Scriptures and yet no way prooued that any where the bodie signifieth the soule or standeth for the soule That the soule is a consequent to the bodie and the bodie likewise a consequent to the soule wheresoeuer The sâ—…ule is a câ—…nsequent to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 but no part of it the Scripture speaketh of men liuing heere on earth is a sure and safe rule because no man heere liueth that doeth not consist of soule and bodie yet that is no proofe that what is attributed to the bodie must be verified of the soule much lesse that the one must be taken for the other Looke but to your owne examples where bodie is named e Rom. 6. Let not sinne reigne in your mortall bodies sayth the Apostle If here you will comprehend the soule vnder the name of the bodie you must grant in exact words that the soule is mortall which is an open heresie destroying the summe and effect of the Christian faith Againe f 1. Cor. 6. Euery sinne that a man doth is without the body but the fornicato-sinneth against his owne bodie If in this place the bodie conclude the soule then euery sinne saue fornication is without soule and body and consequently no sinne which is a doctrine a man would thinke meet for no Diuine The third instance which you bring hath not so grosse sequels but as plaine falshoods g Hebr. 10. Sacrifice and burnt offerings thou wouldest not but a bodie hâ—…st thou ordained me whereof the sacrifices offered by the Law were h Ibid. vers 1. shadowes Now did the bodies of beasts slaine or their bloud shed prefigure the Soule of Christ or the death of his bodie These be the places on which you build your vnsound obseruation that the Scripture doth often take the bodie for the soule which are so sensibly false that they need no Refuter But we reason of death which seuereth the soule from the bodie and therein to say the bodie must be taken for the soule is a very sincke of sottish absurdities and falsities For what can be more repugnant to trueth and sense than to take a dead bodie for a liuing soule and when they are so farre seuered by nature to say they must agree in name and the one be called the other Peruse now the Fathers which you would faine wrest to your purpose and see whether they doe not flatly contradict your deuice that the body in their speaches must be taken for the whole man and so the death of Christes body for the death as well of soule as of the body Epiphanius is the first that you would frustrate with your deuices and the first that shall conuince your falshood He saith the manhood of Christ spake these words Now seeing the deity together with the soule moouing to forsake his sacred body What death call you that where the soule moueth and forsaketh the body then in that complaint of Christs the thing forsaken was his body alone by the iudgement of Epiphanius and the deity i Epiph. contra 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 69. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 together with the soule did mooue 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to forsake that sacred body Which way doth this prooue the soule or the whole manhood of Christ to be forsaken when Epiphanius expresly saith the deity with the soule did mooue to forsake the body Hilarie is the next whom you would infect with your fansie but finding no words in him meet for your matter you are forced shamefully to misconster the body for the soule and the death of the one for the death of the other which is all the hold you haue in Hilarie though you lustily would beare out the rest with the copy of your countenance Notwithstanding Hilarie doth not only preuent but also refute your mistaking For in plaine words he saith k 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 10. Querela derelicti morientis infirmit as est traditio spirit us morientis excessio est The complaint of Christ that he was forsaken was the infirmity of one dying the yeelding vp his spirit was his departure hence when he died And againe Tradens spiritum mortuus est Christ died by deliuering vp his spirit Sepultus est Christus quia mortuus est mortuus autem est quia moriturus locutus est Deus Deus meus quare me dereliquisti Christ was buried because he was dead and ready to die he said My God my God why hast thou forsaken me So that Christes death when he spake those words was not past nor present but then to come as Hilarie noteth by the future tence and was the deliuering vp of his spirit into his fathers hands I trust you dare not defend that Christ in or after the deliuering vp of his spirit suffered the paines of hell or the second death and yet saith Hilarie those words Christ spake of his death that was to come Tertullian is the last whose words though
110. li. 28. exceeding generall and constant ioy and had as Dauid foreprophesied of him i 34. constant and continuall ioy in God was there no feeling of all this triumph and ioy so exceeding constant and continuall May a man be so franticke as to confesse that Christ felt all this and yet to say he had no comfortable feeling This may be called the death of the soule To him that calleth light darknesse good euill faith feare ioy discomfort this may seeme death which by all the rules of the sacred Scriptures is called the life of the soule heere on earth but by no man that vnderstandeth or careth what he sayth can this be called or defended to be the death of the soule k Defenc. pag. 113. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 As it is life to the soule to feele and to enioy the glory of God Psal 16. 21. so it is death to feele the want and absence thereof vtterly Hauing abused the Fathers at your pleasure you offer now the like if not worse to the Scriptures The sixteenth Psalme vers 11 not 21 as you quote it sheweth vs that there is a way to life reuealed here on earth but the fulnesse of ioy is in Gods presence when we shall behold his face as the Angels doe in heauen The way to life is grace wherewith Christ was replenished from his mothers wombe and in greater measure then all his members For he had the fullnesse thereof in this life where the perfectest men haue but a measure thereof and we l Iohn 1. all haue receaued of his fulnesse The plenty of pleasure which is at Gods right hand is euerlasting glory both of soule and body into which Christ entred after his Resurrection How doth this prooue that Christs soule was dead during the time of his Paâ—…sion if a man would seeke out a place to confirme the contrarie he cannot light on a better For these words pertaining directly to Christ on the crosse conclude that euen in the midst of his sufferings m Psal 16. v. 11 the waies of life were made knowen to him by God and that after his rising againe God would Replenish him with the ioy of his countenance which was euerlasting glory in the heauens The one he possessed the other was promised more then which the soule of man cannot enioy in this life Now except this be your rage rather then your reason that all mens soules are dead till they come to behold God face to face in the heauens I see not what you can hence collect touching the death of Christs soule The contrarie may be soundly concluded out of this place For the wayes of life were made knowen to him here on earth and by him to all men liuing since he prosessed himselfe to be the n Iohn 14. Way and the Truth and the Life and the promises of God to him as farre exceeded all honour and glory reserued for men as it was possible for the head to excell his members o Defenc pag. 113 li. 1â—… This heauenly life Christ tasted a while in his transsiguration this death he felt besides his bodily death on the Crosse. If Christ neuer tasted an heauenly life but in his transfiguration then all the time of his conuersing heere on earth he felt your hellish death and not in his passion only but what madnesse is this to affirme either of Christ or of his members that their soules are dead till they come to behold Gods face in the glory of his Kingdome If these be your best proofes for the death of Christs soule 〈◊〉 heed you be not estrâ—…nged from the life of God through the ignorant wilfullnesse or your heart that thus confound heauen and earth life and death to maintaine your fansies against both Fathers and Scriptures But of the death of Christs soule we shall haue better occasion afterward to speake when we come to handle it at large where I will by Gods grace let the Reader see how resolutely and absolutely the Fathers ioyning with the Scriptures repell the death of Christs soule as a pestilent point of false doctrine vnlesse we take it as a figuratiue kind of speach which is nothing to the principles of our faith nor to the true price of our Redemption since we must not conuert the truth of Christ to figures and phrases p Defenc pag. 11. li 〈◊〉 Your fourth exposition for any thing I see may be granted for it seemeth to be the same in effect that we hold If the fourth exposition be granted then two of your chiefe 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 on the 〈◊〉 grounds on which you raise your hell paines suffered in the soule of Christ vtterly sincke For then Christ spake these words of his members not of his owne person and it was no such dolefull and vncomfortable mourning and 〈◊〉 his owne soule as you suppose but a praier full of power fauour and grace whereby the sonne of God auerted from vs the separation that was betwixt God vs and made peace in heauen and earth reconciling man to God that before was forsaken of him q Pag. 113 li. 2â—… Was it remooued from vs then surely it was laid on some body els Now that must needes be vpon himselfe You fall to rouing in steed of reasoning Euerlasting death and hell fire it selfe were remooued from vs. On whom then were they laid Desperation confusion reiection were likewise remooued from vs. Were they therefore laid on Christ 〈◊〉 of sinne and corruption in the graue shal be likewise remooued from vs. Were these also laid on Christes person or did he suffer the very same that we should keepe such reasons for your hellish mysteries they haue no force in true religion nor I think with any sober or well aduised reasoner The punishments of this life imposed on all mankind Christ suffered for vs and by them freed vs from euerlasting damnation and destruction which were the due wages of our sinnes He therefore paied a price for vs which was the shedding of his bloud vnto death on the Crosse and by that ransomed vs from the captiuitie and miserie that otherwise were appointed for sinne r Defenc. pag. 113. li. 30. Where you obiect Athanasius that he could not be forsaken of his Father who was alwaies in his Father it is meerely wrested Athanasius speaketh against Arius also that Christs deity could not be for saken of his Father and so was not inferiour to his Father What talke you of wresting that neuer yet conceaued any Fathers words rightly no more then you doe that of Athanasius which I brought You catch at a piece and runne your way as though you were cleerely acquited but returne to the text and looke on the rest with shame enough Who was he that spake those words Why hast thou forsaken me I trust he was the sonne of God though now incarnate who before his incarnation was equall with his father in the forme of God Els Peter was
haue resisted his pursuers And touching that kind of forsaking which you dreame of he saith e Ibidem Iudâ—…orum hoc fuerit vt Iesum crederent a Deo relictum in quem tanto scelere saeuire potuissent qui sacrilega illusione dicebant alios saluos fecit seipsum non potest saluum facere Let vs leaue this to the Iewes to thinke Christ forsaken of God on whom they could execute their rage with such wickednesse who sacriligiously deriding him saied he saued others he cannot saue himselfe He was then forsaken of his father when he was deliuered into the hands of the wicked that is he was not defended from them yea he would forsake himselfe that is he would vse no manifest power against them but willingly yeelded himselfe into their hands to suffer what they would This is the forsaking saith Leo which the Scripture alloweth That other sort of forsaking that God indeed had left him would not help him in his good time that is rather the perfidiousnesse of the Iewes which obiected so much vnto him then the faith of Christians Origen you say is here as weake and why because you say the word you take vpon you like a Iudge to set downe your vnwise censure on euery mans words you take not the paines to refute them by any colour or shew of reason Origen saith that f Origâ—…n 〈◊〉 Matth. 〈◊〉 35. Christ was forsaken of his Father when he tooke vnto him the forme of a seruant and came to the death of the crosse which amongest men seemed most shamefull Then maiest thou plainly vnderstand what he ment when he sayd why hast thou forsaken me comparing that glory which he had with his Father to this shame which he despised enduring the Crosse. Tell vs not what you will mislike but what you can refute in this saying And since you require the reasons of all other mens speaches and thinke your selfe priuiledged to speake without all reason what say you which was the greater abasing or forsaking for God to lay aside the power and glory of his maiesty and to take vnto him the shape of a seruant and therein to die the shamefull death of the crosse or for man to want comfort in his affliction which was the greater emptying or humbling himselfe in Christ If Origen in this point be weake the Apostle is as weake who nameth this as the greatest g Phil. 2. EXINANITION that Christ endured saying he being in the forme of God that is equall with God emptied himselfe and tooke on him the forme of a seruant and humbled himselfe and became obedient to the death euen the death of the Crosse. Origen goeth right with the Apostles words and saith this was the greatest dereliction or humiliation that Christ suffered and before you can with any reason controle this speach you must correct the Apostles text and in steed of the death of the Crosse put in the death of the damned which is a mystery the apostle neuer heard nor spake of Origen therefore concludeth h Origen vâ—… supra Vnde non estimes more humano Saluatorem ista 〈◊〉 propter 〈◊〉 quae comprehenderat eum in cruce Wherefore thinke not our Sauiour spake this after the mâ—…ner of men for the calamity which apprehended him on the crosse For so if 〈◊〉 take it thou shalt not seeke for things worthy his diuine voice i Defenc. pag. 114. li. 6. Also these senses be contrary to all the rest here obserued If they were what is that to the goodnesse of your cause Is it such newes that diuers men should make 〈◊〉 senses of some places in holy Scriptures If there be so abundant and different meanings of these wordes then your conclusion of hell-paines out of that complaint is more than crackt What warrant haue you but your owne will to make any such construction of Christes words And the word forsaking hauing so many degrees respects and diuersities as wee see by these learned Fathers you must proclaime your selfe more than a Patriarke euen a Pope that must haue and will haue the sense of holy Scripture shut vp in the closet of your owne brest before your inference of hell-paines suffered in the soule of Christ will be consequent to these words k Defenc pag. 114. li. 7. Your sixth and last sense is likewise contrary to the rest and as improbable in it selfe or more than the former That Christ should here cite the beginning of that Psalme onely to shew the Iewes that their wrongs towards him were prophesied of before This alreadie I The sixt sense of Christs complaint on the crosse fully answered which you refute not What should I refute a brainsicke Presumer of his owne ignorant conceit and a proud despiser of all other mens words and reasons This you say you haue alreadie fullie answered in your Treatise If you had sayd foolely I might the sooner haue beleeued you for what is there in that answere but extreame pride and follie All your answere is l Trea. pa. 66. li 31. Which sense is most absurd What patch can not presently giue this answere to any thing But more fully you say m Ibid pag. 67. li. 7. This is too fond to be spoken Such liquor doth rellish well your lippes All mens sayings are fond to a foole saue his owne which are most foolish of all I brought you the iudgements of Ierom and Chrysostom and all the answere you vouchsafed vnto them is that which I now repeat which whether it sauour of any sobrietie I relinquish to the Reader But you adde a reason thereof in your Treatise Such as would make a man sicke to heare an idle companion prate so boldly and loosely Your reason forsooth is for so you will haue it called n Ibid. pag. 66. li. 32. As if when they had mocked and reuiled him at noone or before he would then three whole houres after tell them of such an answere in the Prophet As if you stood by and kept the Register when they left mocking and deriding Christ on the crosse That he was crucified about mid-noone and spake these words about the ninth houre which was three of the clocke after noone the Scripture doth witnesse but how long they continued their scorning and scoffing at him no Scripture doth limit Saint Matthew nameth the high o Matth. 27. vers 41. Priests with the Scribes Elders and Pharises the p 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that were crucified with him and such as q 〈◊〉 passed by reuiled him wagging their â—…eads and r 〈◊〉 saying Thou that destroyest the Temple and buildest it in three dayes saue thy selfe If thou be the Sonne of God come downe from the crosse S. Luke addeth That s Luc. 22. v. 35. the people which stood and beheld mocked him as well as the Rulers and the souldiers also mocked him and came and offered him vineger How long this continued from all sorts standing and passing by
if you take vpon you to tell you must consult with Balaams beast for no man can tell you vnlesse you finde by the starres how long that sturre dured For my part I thinke as they were neuer satisfied with his torments so neuer left they taking all occasions to deride him as we may perceiue by the very speaking of these words vpon which some sayd Let be Let vs see if Elias will come and saue him Now if the very passengers did not refraine their tongues from 〈◊〉 on him shal we thinke the standers by did so quickly leaue with mouth to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 heart to disdaine him and condemne him as forsaken of God in the midst of so many shames and miseries And the poison of their hearts accounting him to be wicked and reiected of God was the thing which Christ respected as well as the 〈◊〉 of their tongues But what if their mocks did cease at twelue of the clocke as you 〈◊〉 presume with out all good ground might not Christ therefore in this 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 their 〈◊〉 words and hatefull thoughts three houres after when now he was 〈◊〉 to giue vp the ghost though whiles life did last he was content with all quietnesse and silence to endure them Was it so fond and absurd as you talke of to 〈◊〉 them with the beginning of that Psalme that all these things which he had suffered and they had vsed towards him were foreprophesied of the Messias and Sauiour of the world Who but a man destitute of wit or sense would giue such entertainment to two so learned and ancient Fathers for so saying t Defenc. pag. 114. li. 16. Your authorities are bare arguments Ierom bringeth no reason but his owne word 〈◊〉 I see not what he sayth to your purpose at all Your absurdities and contrarieties hatcht out of your owne head are farre worse arguments Ieroms bare word is as good as your bare will or bold face in any place in Christendome Howbeit Ierom is not alone in this minde S. Austen sayth u August epist. 120. Psalmum cuius prophetiam 〈◊〉 ad se 〈◊〉 demonstrans cius primum versum exclamauit cum pendâ—…ret in ligno To shew the prophesie of that Psalme to perteine to him the Lord repeated the first verse thereof with a loud voice as he hung on the crosse You see not how Chrysostome maketh to this purpose Christ spake these wordes sayth Chrysostome that thereby the Iewes might learne he honoured his Father to the last breath and that his Father was no 〈◊〉 x 〈◊〉 in Matth. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to him Therefore he spake the Prophets words confirming the ancient Scripture that they might perceiue him to be of the same will with his Father Had he beene forsaken 〈◊〉 his Father and conuicted thereof by his owne confession as you interpret Christs words he had declared by his speech his Father to be an aduersarie to him since to 〈◊〉 is no signe of loue but of dislike But he spake these words of the Prophet to proue that his Father was not opposite to him but of the same will with him What els can Chrysostome meane by this but that the Prophet by this Psalme foreshewed the Sonne of God and Sauiour of the world should speake these words on the crosse and thereby not only affirme that God was his God and not his aduersarie but ratifie the ancient Scripture euen that whole Psalme as forespoken of him whereby the Iewes might plainely learne that nothing befell him which the Prophet in that Psalme did not before declare should befall the true Messias and Sauiour of the world y Defenc. pag. 114. li. 〈◊〉 Finally these kindes of dereliction which you mention besides pag. 32 33 38 c. are nothing sitter than the former You sit like a supreame Iudge ouer Fathers and Scriptures and cassiere all besides your owne conceits vpon the warrant of your owne will without any farther trouble or proofe It is vrged in those pages which you passe ouer that forsaking thorowout the Scriptures neuer signifieth the state or paines of the damned You care not for that your will must haue way and your word must stand It is there also auouched that whensoeuer the godly complaine in the Scriptures as they often doe that they are forsaken they meane of helpe in time of need and of deliuerance in the day of trouble Nor Scriptures nor Fathers haue any power to preuaile against your pleasure you will haue forsaking in Christes words to note the paines of the damned though there be no example thereof in any diuine or humane writings You are belike some Praetor or some Pilate that what you haue written you haue written and other reason you will yeeld none z Defenc pag. 114. li. 22. Six or seuen diuers yea contrary senses you haue brought of a few words and of them all you say they are all godly expositions and all these interpretations are sound and stand well with the rules of Christian pietie How sound and fit they are it hath beene scene And what haue you found in any of them dissonant from the rules of Christian pietie for which I commended them They fit not your fansie I know it well but they swarue neither from the faith of Christ nor from the word of God For where all good Expositions The true rules how to expound the Scriptures should haue these foure conditions the right vse of the words the circumstances of the place the coherence with other Scriptures and concordance with the maine grounds of pietie and charitie which by no pretence of any speech in Scripture may be impugned these expositions of the ancient Fathers transgresse in none of them And where the Iewes falsely wickedly and blasphemously obiected to Christ that he was forsaken of God you out of the abundance of your wit and faith will haue Christ on the crosse publikely and plainly to confesse and confirme their sacrilegious obiections and to iustifie their impietie for trueth by acknowledging with a loud voice that he was forsaken of God A worse exposition than which the diuell himselfe could not deuise For whatsoeuer was inwardly betweene him and his Father he would neuer so openly ratifie their impious and slanderous cogitations and imputations with his owne mouth nor leaue such a confession presently before his death in the eares and hearts of all his enemies as that he found himselfe to be truely and inwardly forsaken of God but rather calling that a forsaking which they misconstrued to be so he complained that God had so long with such patience left him in their hands without any shew as yet of loue and fauour towards him which made his enemies thinke God had indeed forsaken him z Defenc pag. 114. li. 26. Verily you haue a good head if you can reconcile all these and make them stand together Doth any man that hath so much as a head require to haue all expositions reconciled before they may be tolerated
words of Christes sorow and feare or astonishment vsed by the Euangelists S. Ierom saith p Hieronym in Matth. ca. 26. Caepit contristari aliud est enim contristari aliud incipere contristari Christ began to be sorowfull for it is one thing to be sorowfull and another thing to begin to be sorowfull And so Origen q Origen in Matth. tract 35. Capit pauere vel tristari nihil amplius tristitiae vel pauoris patiens nisi principium tantum Christ began to be afrayd or to be sorrowfull suffering no more but onely the beginning of feare or sorrow And consider sayth he r Ibidem the Euangelist sayth not he was afrayd or he was loaden with sorow but he beganne to be afrayd and sorowfull There is great difference betwixt sorow and the beginning of sorow And so he expoundeth Christes words My soule is heauie vnto death that is Heauinesse is begunne in me so that I am not altogether without some taste thereof The continuance thereof the Scripture noteth not to be such that either bereaued him of memorie or hindred his prayers for both he persisted in earnest and humble Christ did not pray in astonishment prayer wherein he was heard and carefully warned his Apostles that were with him to watch and pray that they entred not into temptation Now prayer requireth not vnderstanding and memory alone but faith also Of euery man that would pray Saint Iames sayth s Iames 1. Let him aske in faith and wauer not for he that wauereth is like the waue of the sea tost with the winde Neither let that man thinke he shall receiue any thing of the Lord. And where by these tastes and touches of feare and sorow you would insinuate your hell paines partly felt and partly further to come S. Austen telleth you that t August 83. quâ—…st quâ—…st 33. cognitu facile est nullum metum esse nisi futuri imminentis mali it is easie to know there is no feare but of future and imminent euill As also u Ibidem Nihil erat inter omnia genera mortis illo genere execrabilius formidolosius Amongst all kindes of death there was none more execrable and formidable than that kinde of death on the crosse which Christ died So that what Christ feared was to come and not present as also he might haue a naturall mislike and feare of that kinde of death respecting as well the paine which would be intolerable as the exactnesse of patience required more in him than in all men liuing because he might admit no declining nor disliking the sharpnesse thereof in the weakenesse of his flesh were it neuer so grieuous This I speake of his bodilie paines besides the feare and sorow that his soule might apprehend for the weightie worke of mans redemption then in hand x Defenc. pag. 115. li. 31. You skip this kind of feare when you recken but foure kinds for this was neither a religious care nor doubtfull feare nor desperate nor damned feare but a right naturall feare in Christ. As though the ground of all these were not a naturall feare and dislike of hell paines For why doe the faithfull decline them the weake conflict with them the desperate sinke vnder them and the damned lie confounded in them but because nature abhorreth and shunneth all kind of paine and consequently the greatest which is hell with the greatest detestation that may be You after your surly sort presume that Christ really felt in the Garden the paines of the damned I admitting no such deuice did yet sufficiently comprise all kinds of feare concerning hell in that diuision of mine since if they were presently felt of Christ as they are of the damned his feare of them must then needs be a damned feare or rather paine because he had as you defend a present sense of them as the damned haue And therefore if you misse no more in your conclusions then I did in my partition your reasons would passe without any iust reproofe y Defenc. pag. 116. Dauid wanted sometime the present feeling of Gods comfortable spirit and mourned dolefully for the want of it albeit yet he was not destitute of his spirit indeâ—…de which also himselfe knew well enough And thus did Christ euen in his greatest plunge of woe for then he called God his God resolutely The example of Dauid maketh nothing for your hell paines to be suffered in the soule of Christ but very much against them and yet betweene Dauids case in that Psalme and Christs there is no comparison For Dauid then was not pressed with any outward affliction but stroken with an inward doubt of Gods fauour towards him whom he had so greatly offended with adultery and homicide and so long dallied with before repentance Christ contrariwise was neuer pressed with any doubt or distrust of Gods fauour towards himselfe but the weakenesse of his flesh was burdened with extreame and intolerable paynes What affinitie then had Dauids feare of reiection with Christs sense of affliction and yet were they like what gaine you by that Dauid was truely penitent when he made that psalme and true repentance I hope putteth not men into the paines of hell Againe Dauid you confesse was not then destitute of Gods spirit which also himselfe knew well enough But the spirit of God is life to the soule of man and quickeneth it Ergo Dauid though he wanted the full peace and ioy of conscience which he calleth saluation yet he liued in soule and was farre from the second death How much more then was Christs soule free from all these things in whom was the fulnesse of Gods spirit with all his gifts and graces any way needfull for the Sauiour of the world though glory were differred and ioy diminished for the time by excesse of paine To wish ease of paine or to grieue at the sharpenesse therof is naturall vnto man and therefore may well be graunted to haue bene in Christ as also to lacke the fulnesse of ioy and comfort till his sufferings were ouer past But he neuer wanted the ioy of saluation nor assurance thereof and therefore he doubled his inuocation on the crosse saying not onely My God my God but Father forgiue them and Father into thine hands I commend my spirit and in the Garden he resolutely pronounced as often if not oftner z Mat. 26. vers 39 42. O my Father Which words doe most apparantly prooue that Christ had neuer any other perswasion suspition or feare but that God was his God and his Father and therefore most certainly bare towards him a fatherly loue and affection though he knew it was his Fathers will he should inwardly and outwardly grieue a while for our sinnes and so receiue ease by death ioy by Paradise and glory by his speedy and heauenly resurrection a Defenc. pag. 116 li. 14. Thirdly adde hereunto Christs owne expresse wordes when in this season he prayeth that this
houre and this cup might passe from him That which this houre and this cup doe signifie the same is the proper and principall cause of this agonie but what can be ment by this houre vnlesse the paines of his suffering set and appointed by God for him to be are at his determined time from Gods iustice for sinne What is this cup but the bitter taste of the same paines aforsaid this I hope was not his holinesse and sanctification which so troubled and molested him nor his piety nor his pity If you permit our Sauiour to be the interpreter of his owne wordes as he was the speaker then neither this hower nor this cup import any thing suffered in the garden After his agony past and praiers ended in the garden Christ said to his Disciples b Sleepe henceforth and take your rest behold THE HOWER draweth neere and the Sonne of man is giuen into the hands of sinners And so to the Iewes that came to approhend him c 〈◊〉 this is your very hower and the power of darknesse And when Peter would with force haue defended him he said d 〈◊〉 Put vp thy sword into thy sheath shall I not drinke of the cup which my Father hath giuen mee So that this â—…ower and this cup were to come when his agony was ended and were they not why may not this howre and this cup conteine in them as well his painfull affections oâ—… sorow and feare as his other sufferings Was not the Cuppe mixed that he dranke and the houre long enough to comprise all that he suffered But what maketh either of those for your hell paines Was there no Cuppe for him to drinke nor time for him to suffer except your hellish torments were interposed His sufferings then are confessed though no feare nor sorow might besiege him but such as was ioyned with obedience and patience and in the midst of his afflictions he neither neglected submission to God nor compassion to men You with the one would exclude the other and I see no words nor cause but both might be ioyned in one houre and one Cup whatsoeuer you pretend to the contrary e Defenc. pag. 110. li. 23. Nay finally he himselfe expresseth the true cause euen his excessiue paines his ouerabounding sorowes and anguish saying My soule is full of paines or full of sorowes euen vnto death Heere he nameth the cause You are a man of much intelligence that out of Christs words would conclude his sorow to be the cause of it selfe For where by Christs agonie if it be largely taken you must meane his feare and his sorow confessed in that speach My soule is heauy or sorowfull vnto death You make no more adoe but auouch that Christ here nameth sorow to be the cause of his agony that is of his sorow For if by his agony you meane his bloudy sweat from these words to that part of his action in the garden you shall neuer make any consequent The Euangelist expressely saith There appeared an Angel from heauen comforting him and then falling into an agonie he praied more earnestly and in that vehement praier his sweat was like drops of bloud He was comforted before this last praier and therein rather with the intention of spirits for zeale then with the remission of them for feare he did sweat as the Scripture noteth Now whereof receaued he comfort but of his sorow and what is comfort but a depulsion or mitigation of sorow what sense then can it haue to say that after Christs sorow was eased and comforted from heauen his sorow decreasing his agony of sorow so much encreased that he sweat bloud for very sorow how hang these contraries together which you would hale out of Christs owne words In the former part of his action in the garden wherein he praied the cup might passe from him he said his soule was heauy or sorowfull vnto death We enquire the cause of this sorow You answere that Christs owne words expresse and name sorow to be the cause therof What is this but to collude with Christs words in making his sorow to be the cause of his sorow which in a more generall and confused word you call his agonie but with vs the cause of his sorow is in question to that you neither can nor doe say any thing out of Christes words out of your owne conceit you presume that Christs f Pa. 116. li. 31. excessiue paines then felt and the intire want of feeling of Gods comfort and nothing els was the proper and principall cause of that sorow But these be your additions and expositions they be no part of Christs words nor meaning And by what authority to aduantage your error doe you not only contrâ—…le the translation vsed by all the Latin Fathers Tertullian Cyprian Hilarius â—…erom Ambrose Austen Fulgentius Bede and others but euen corrupt the words of our Sauiour rendered by the Euangelists Matthew and Marke Tristis est enima mea vsque ad mortem My soule is heauie sadde or sorowfull vnto death say all the Latine Fathers saue Tertullian who sayth g Tertullian de carne Christi Anxia est anima mea vsque ad mortem My soule is 〈◊〉 vnto death The Euangelists words are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 My soule is heauie or on euery side heauy and sorowfull vnto death You translate it h Pa. 116. li. 25. My soule is full of paines meaning by paines present inherent and absolute paines such as your hell-paines are where the words import no such thing for neither tristitia in Latine nor 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in Greeke either in prophane or diuine Writers note any such actuall and absolute impression of paine as you would haue but an affection troubling the minde and rising vpon opinion of euill past or instant Of sorow Saint Austen sayth right well i Auâ—…ust in Psal 42. Dolor animae tristitia dicitur molestia quae fit in corpore Dolor dici potest tristitia non potest The griefe of the soule is called heauinesse or sorow the griefe of the bodie is called paine not sorrow 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in Greeke with prophane Writers is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which Cicero translateth k Tuscul. quaest libro 4. Opinio recens mali praesentis A fresh opinion of present or instaâ—…t euill The Scriptures in like sort vse the same word opposing it to the affection of ioy and expressing by it not any actuall or absolute paine but griefe and sadnesse of minde which wee call sorow l Ioh. â—…6 v. 20. The world shall reioyce and you shall be sorrowfull 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 but your SOROVV shall be turned to ioy So Paul m 2. Cor. 2. I would not come againe to you 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in heauinesse for if I made you sorâ—… who is he that should make me glâ—…d but the same that was made SORY by me And this very thing I wrote vnto you lest
so grieuous feare trouble and sorow of mind or soule that he cried out My God my God why hast thou forsaken me I make good difference betwixt the Booke of Homilies confirmed as well by the publicke authority of Prince and Parliament Anno Reginae 13. ca 12 as by the generall subscription of the vpper and neather house in the conuocation Anno 1571 to a In the 35. article of Homilies containe godlie wholesome and necessarie doctrine and the Catechisme then licenced to be taught in Schooles to yong scholers but without any such autoritie as the former is Shew the like approbation and you shall freely call it the publike autorized doctrine of England till you doe so giue me leaue to tell you that the one is indeede by publicke authority receaued and ratified euen as the articles are the other was by priuate discretion permitted and tolerated to be taught in Grammar schooles but publicke authority of the whole Realme you may chalenge none vnto it And therefore I take my selfe in matters of faith not bound vnto it farder then it accordeth with the manifest trueth deliuered in the â—…acred Scriptures Againe your selfe doâ—… more impugne the Catechisme then I doe For if your owne wordes be true that Christ when he vttered those b Defenc. pag. 110. li. 28. 34. words spake in his mind of his constant and continuall ioy in God and was in exceeding generall and constant ioy What place leaue you for any of those wordes which you cite out of the Catechisme to haue any trueth in them since they speake of exceeding and horrible feares and sorrows which I thinke are contrarie to your triumphant generall and constant ioy And although I thinke it no reason that a thing priuatly permitted should abrogate the full and maine consent of the learned and auntient Fathers as you would haue it to doe and therefore make it free when the Carechisme swatueth from their sense and interpretation to be of another mind yet I condemne nothing in it as wicked but wish that soâ—…e few places had been more cleerly and more particularlâ—…e deliuered and expressed to auoid such cauillers as you and some others are But you with open mouth reiâ—…ct euen those places which now you produce as passing strange doctrine and simply impossible For where the Catechisme here in these words which you alleage saith Christ was Aeternae mortis horrore perfusus perfused or wholy touched with an horror which is a trembling feare of eternall death you not only reason against it that c Defenc. pag. 9â—… li. 13. Christ could not feare that which he perfectly knew concerned him not at all and by no meanes could euer possibly come neere him but you make it d li. 12. passing strange doctrine and simply impossible that Christ should feare or pray against the whole and intire cup of eternall death And yet the Catechisme saith he trembled and was ouercast with the horror of it You misâ—…ike that the Catechisme saith except you may peruert it to your pleasure and in steed of fearing eternall death you say Christ suffered the second death which is die death of the damned and so refusing the Catechisme for saying so much you say more and thinke the Catechisme is of your mind But sir tell vs how Christ could be stroken with the HORROR OF ETERNALL DEATH for those aâ—…e the wordes of the Catechisme and not how he suffered your new made hell which the Catechisme neuer speaketh of I haue deliuered two senses to salue the Catechisme which you impugne The first that Christ in respect of his members to whom that death was due might in loue and pietie towards them inwardly tremble at the punishment deserued by them since mercie maketh vs truely feele the very smart of other mens harmes and dangers and where we hartily loue no lesse then if they were imminent ouer our owne heads The second that Christ fearing the power of Gods wrath against sinne which is infinite may in a sort be sayd to tremble at the effects thereof by reason he trembled at the cause thereof And in this sense the consideration and apprehension of Gods infinite power and displeasure against sinne might brâ—…ede those horrible feares and sorrowes which the Catcchisme talketh of Otherwise I must be plaine the Catechisme sayth more then can be prooued by any Scripture or any learned and auncient Father and more then you your selfe allow or like saue that you would out of his vehement speaches make some aduantage to your cause though in substance you wholy dissent from the maker thereof For he speaketh of feare and sorrow you of re 〈◊〉 al solute suffering he of eternall death due to sin you of a new found hell from the immediate hand of God which is no part of the Catcchisers meaning since he plainely nameth future and euerlasting death due to sinners and not a present and temporall hell which is not the full wages of sinne nor of the damned The like I say for the notes added by the Printer or correctour to the great Bible whose text is authorized to be read in the Church but not the notes to be of equall credit or authoritie with the text And if you may turne of the whole aâ—…ay of auncient and Catholike Fathers because they diflent from your conceits how much lesse am I bound to correctours or Printers adding often times to other mens workes and labours what pleaseth themselues Though the note be not such but that it may receiue the former construction and be tolerated welâ—… enough Wherefore I meane euen the same giddy spirit which before I did buzzing in the eares of the people his owne fancies against the Scriptures against the Fathers and against the doctrine of this Realme confirmed by publike authoritie of Prince and Parliament The recollecting of your former reason so lately and largely answered I omit as tedious trifling and since you say no more then is before refuted what should I trouble my selfe and the Reader with repeating the same things so often iterated e Defenc pag. 118. li. 10. You haue yet heere and there some exceptions against this our doctrine which are not to be cleane neglected First you say I extend Christs agonie to farre because I will haue is proceede from the intolerable sorrowes and horrors of Gods siery wrath equall to â—…ell I shew not there the cause of Christs agonie and feare I shewed it of purpose in the beginning Why did you not refuse that You extend it so farre according to my wordes yea your maine purpose is to make that the cause of Christs agonie in the garden and on the crosse onely you would vse some cunning in the carriage of it first to make sorrowes and feares the cause thereof and at the next step to aske what sorrowes and feares could those be but the intolerable sorowes and horrors of Gods fierie wrath equall to hell And to this end you quote both the
comprehend them or want patience in them and not see an end of them For if he did suffer them he did beare them and comprehend them except you make him impatient in his paines and the paines euerlasting in him a Defenc. 122. li. 10. The next is as vaine where you thinke it not tolerable that I say Christ in plaine wordes prayed contrary to his Fathers knowen will I pray haue patience I say no harme nor I meane Chrisâ—…s prayer was not contrary to Gods knowen will no ill A plaine patterne of vanitie if a man would seeke for he shall neede goe no farder then these eight pages spent in excusing your bold and sawcie assertion that is b Trea. pa. 59. li. 4. It is manifest in plaine words Christ prayed contrary to Gods knowen will And the consequents which you hang to it are worse then the words themselues that c Ibid. pa. 58. li. 11. he plainely corrected his will by Gods will and in correcting it was contrarie yea he knew it to be so and d Ibid. pa. 59. li. 6. vnlesse it were in astonishment e Ibid. pa. 59. li. 8. he could not haue wanted sinne For none of all these positions haue any trueth in them or proofe for them besides your wilfull mistaking and wresting the Scripture The woâ—…ds of our Sauiour as I haue shewed before haue foure expositions with the auncient Fathers euery one confirming that there was no contradiction indeede betweene the will of God the prayer of Christ. The first that Christ praied vpon a condition if man might possibly be otherwise saued and the Iewes not perish by his passion which Origen Ierom Bede do follow They put a speciall Emphasis in the words THIS CVP which should be the vtter desolation and reiection of the Iewes The next limiteth the word PASSE to POSSIBLE as if Christ had said let this cup passe from me as much as is possible by which he desireth a moderation of the punishment prouoked by our sinnes and yet referrâ—…th it to his Fathers will This Euthymius embraceth A third is that Christ confessed a naturall dislike of death and paine in the weaknesse of his flesh though his spirit did readily submit it selfe to the diuine will of his Father and of himselfe euen touching the death of the crosse This sense Chysostome Damascene and others doe bring The fourth that Christ here assumed and declared the weaknesse of his members who being no more then men should feare death but he by suffering that affection to rise in himselfe and repressing it did by his grace cure it in his when and as he seeth time and cause This Hilarie Cyrill and Austen doe like So that Christes wordes being euery way free from plaine and manifest contradicting Gods knowen will as you would make them to aduance your hell paines by them who but you would ship out such wine-shaken stuffe that Christ f Treat pa. 53. li. 32. was astonished forgetfull and all confounded in his whole humanitie both in all the powers of his soule and senses of his body that he knew not what he said or did or els he could not haue wanted sinne g Defenc. paâ—… 122. li 19. Neuer skoffe at it nor reproch it nor wrest it We ought not to be ashamed to acknowledge the weakenesse of humane nature in Christ which Christ was not ashamed of for our sakes to vndergoâ—… It is you that are ashamed of humane weaknesse in the flesh of Christ and therefore you deuise the torments of diuels in the soule of Christ and the paines of the damned because you thinke it a shame for him to haue his flesh afrayd of paine and death Right your selfe therefore by your owne rule and then you may well be ashamed of these monsters deuised by you whiles you shun to acknowledge mans weakenesse voluntarily receiued in the flesh of Christ as well to prooue the trueth of his owne manhood as the comfort and cure the infirmitie of our nature But why doe you not first prooue it and after presume it this pretending it to be plaine before any such thing doth appeare is no more but dreaming of a noble conquest when you haue receiued a shamefull foyle h Defenc. pag. 122. li. 22. Did not Christ in plaine words pray that if it were possible this houre might passe from him and before saue me â—…rom this houre doth he not then pray in plaine wordes contrary to Gods knowâ—… ill Who but a man confounded in all the powers of his sense and vndâ—…rstanding hauing so many expositions brought him out of learned and auncient Christ prayed with condition and reseruation of Gods will Fathers would in a rage reiâ—…ct them all without any regard and leaning onely to the wilfulnâ—…sse of hâ—…s owne imagination conclude with such confidence his owne vntoward conceits to be the true meaning of the sacred Scriptures If Fathers be but sathers with you doe you not heere three Euangelists Matthew Marke and Luke euidently exquisitely witnesse that Christ prayed with reseruation and submission to the will of God how then prayed he contrary to the knowen will of God i Treatis pa. 85. li. 12. In correcting it it was contrarie yea and he knew it to be so It is a signe you swell with no small liking of your selfe that little care to crosse all writers old and new without any cause but onely â—…or the good opinion you haue of your selfe M. Beza from whom you would seeme to borrow some points of your hell paines though you leaue him when you list as not worthy to teach you any thing directly and truâ—…ly refureth your error k Beza iu annot Obsâ—…ruandum est hac particula non corrigi superiorem peâ—…ionem ita enim fuisset in Christo vitium sed explicari qua conditione id peteret We must marke by this speach yet not as I will the former prayer is not CORRECTED for so it hâ—… bene a fault in Christ but it is declared with what condition Christ desired it So that your correcting Christs prayer by the plaine confession of M. Beza chargeth Christ with corruption of sinne yea and Christes knowing it so to be as you affirme that is to be contrarie to Gods will noteth a manifest and aduised contradiction in Christ to the will of God his Father which whether it be sinne or no let any that is but halfe a diuine iâ—…dge S. Iohn you say reporteth Christ to haue sayd absolutely l Iohn 12. Father saue me from this houre First Hilariâ—…s rule is of necessitie to be retained in expounding the Scriptures m Hilarius de trinitate li. 10. Prestant sibi mâ—…tuam Euangelia plenitudinem dum alia ex alijs quia omnia vnius spiritus predicatio sunt intelliguntur The Gospels make vp eche others fulnesse whiles oâ—…e is vnderstood by another all being the preaching of one spirit Since then it is expressed in three Euangelists
that Christs prayer for auoiding this cup and this houre was conditionall his words in S. Iohn to the like purpose must haue the like construction though they doe not exactly specifie so much Againe your owne confession importeth no lesse where you say n Defenc. pag. 126. li. 7. who knoweth not that all good prayers and dâ—…sires for temporall things must be conditionall that is with reseruation of Gods will alwayes implied though not alwayes expressed Christ praâ—…ers then to escape this houre must haue that condition vnderstoode though it be not mentioned in the words since his prayers were not onely good but heaâ—…d of God and the ground of all our prayers in the time of trouble Thirdly the best Greeke expositours that we haue as Chrysostom Epiphanius and Theophylact haue conceaued the force and order of Christs speach to be such as if that part which you auouch to be repugnant to the rest were excluded and denied by the words antecedent and consequent and so to haue rather the power of a negation then an affirmation Lastly many new writers acknowledge the wordes though they were affirmatiue may receiue an other sense as if Christ did not desire to be free from suffering but to be kept from fainting vnder the burden of his passion So Bucer o Bucerus in Iohan. ca. 12. Patrem Christus or auit vt liberaret euÌ„ à supplicio non ne illud perferret sed vt fortiâ—…r perferret Christ besought his Father to saue him from the houre of punishment not that he might not suffer it but that he might suffer it patiently or without fainting So Aretius p Aretius in Iohan. ca. 12. There may be an other sense of this place which is that Christ doth not intreate to escape death but prayeth his Fathers aide against the horror thereof So that to be saued from this houre is to be preserued in it that it preuailed not against him The wordes then of our Sauiour in S. Iohn admitting so many limitations and constructions who but a wilfull neglecter of all learning and trueth would so peremtorily by pretence of them conclude that manifestly in plaine wordes Christ prayed contrary to Gods knowen will q Defenc. pag. 122. li. 22. If this could not be possible in Christs manhoode without sinne then I were a wretch to affirme so much of him especially still to affirme it But if it be possible by any meanes through the meere instinct of mans nature as it is Gods creature and free from all sinne thus to speake and to wish suddainly and suddainly to controle it againe as Christ did then what mind beare you and how may we iudge of this your striuing which is not to cleare Christ from all sinne in his agony A goodly clearing from sinne you make in Christ that in a maze he prayed he knew not what You suddainly take Christs memorie from him and suddainly restore it againe with the twinckling of an eye and thus you play with Christs sense and memorie as men doe with tennis balles But vnderstand you sir howsoeuer you please your selfe with amazing Christ after this manner the Scriptures allow no such thing nor any circumstances of the text where the wordes seeme most plainely repugnant as you say to Gods knowen will as in the 12. of Iohn Read that Chapter who will where are no wordes nor signes of any maze but a perpetuall course of most excellenâ—… speach in the midst whereof he confessed that his soule was then troubled with the remembrance of his death And as doubting what to desire through the dislike that mans nature in him had of death he yet resolueth to desire not his owne safetie from death but the increase of his Fathers glory by his death What signe or proofe of amazement is in this why take you this pestilent libertie to put Christ into a suddaine maze when pleaseth you and as suddainly least all the world should crie shame on you to cleare him from it though the cause of his maze if there were any still continued you say if it were not by some meanes possible you were a wretch to affirme it but you must not deuise what meanes please you to waue the Sonne of God to and fro with suddaine and often desires which needed correcting and controlling and then to warfe them with want of memorie My striuing is not against any wordes in the text or any thing that may be iustly deduced from the Scriptures but against your forgetfull and faithlesse prayers which you purposely impute to Christ because you would hemme him either within sinne or astonishment and then excuse him with losse of sense and lacke of memorie This is the maine plot that heere you vndertake not by proouing that it was so but by pronouncing that you will haue it so and therefore you still answere in steede of arguing knowing that your proofes be as weake as your proiects strong For first you r Defenc. pag. 122. li. 37. answere Christ knew his Fathers will but at this instant he thought not on it And why thought he not on it you s pa. 123. li. â—… answere againe his paines and sorrowes were so great and so infinite that it was no maruaile hee thought not on it but fall once to proouing and you shall see how much you faile of your purpose t Defenc. pag. 123. li. 9. First he was now astonished as the text saith and you acknowledge that he might be First in the twelfth of Iohn where you make Christes prayer more absolute than in any other place there is no mention nor signification of any astonishment but on the contrary the tenor of Christes speech and doctrine is not onely coherent but full of eminent power and grace Againe the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which you take hold on signifieth either admiration alone as I haue formerly shewed or feare mixed with some wondering Phauorinus sayth u Phauor Dictionarium in verbo 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Thambeâ—…sa properly is to feare and flie at the sight of God So that the word neither in the Scriptures nor in any Grammar signifieth your hellish astonishment for intolerable paines and torments but suddenly to stand defixed or somewhat afrayd at an vnwoonted sight Thirdly the circumstances and consequents in the text declare that Christes astonishment or feare was not such that it tooke from him either sense or memorie For where all vehement amazing for the time depriueth a man of motion sense and speech Christ felt vtterly none of these The very place of S. Marke which you quote for the word ekthamb 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 thai proueth the rest which I affirme For Christ after he x Matth. 14. began 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to be afrayd presently sayd vnto his three disciples My soule is very heauy vnto death tary heere and watch So he went forward a little and fell downe on the ground and prayd that
that Christ did attend his praiers is most euident For he both added a condition to them and presently declared what he ment by that condition to witte that he desired the bitternesse of this cup to passe as much as Gods gratious will towards him should like and not as the sense of mans nature in him would affect So that here is nothing in Christes praier arguing any forgetfulnesse or not remembring but an euident confirmation rather of that which you would so faine denie or auoid if you could tell how that Christ did religiously and carefully conuert his cogitations in his praiers both to deprecate his Fathers wrath as farre as might be and yet to giue full assent to his Fathers wil. And therefore the difference which Origen Ierom Bede and others make betwâ—…ene the beginning and continuing of these affections of feare and sorow in Christ howsoeuer with a false shew you impugne it hath better ground in it then any thing you say against it i Defenc. pag. 124. li. 8. Natures verie instinct is in such dolours to wish and desire ease and the more vehemently it is pinched the more earnâ—…stly it desireth and this is Gods owne gift and workemanship in nature and simply thus to desire is in this respect truely to be reckned Gods owne expresse will Haue you now found that Christ did not manifestly in plaine words pray contrary to his Fathers knowen will But that expressing the sense of mans nature in himselfe as touching the paines which should assault him on the Crosse he desired that cup that is the sharpnesse of that paine might passe as much as was possible to stand with Gods good pleasure And yet least he should seeme in nature more to respect his owne â—…inart then his Fathers will he presently declareth himselfe that he ment no farder to be eased then might stand with Gods counsell and will foredetermining these thinges So that without your hell paines then inflicted on Christes soule by Gods immediate hand and without your confused and forgetfull astonishment the praiers of our Sauiour in the Garden did both answeare Gods ordinance in the frame of our flesh which is not brasse as Iob speaketh and yet preferre the will of God for the conseruation of his iustice before the liking of his sense or desire of his nature Which if you acknowledge then are your assertions false and wicked that Christ in plaine wordes praied contrary to Gods knowen will and this could not haue wanted sinne had he not been astonished when he so praied For the praiers are facred and sound without any maze or obliuion of his Fathers will and his owne purpose but rather expressely remembring both and preferring that which indeed should be preferred when and as it ought k Defenc. pag. 124 li. 22. It was contrary in the outward wordes and in the particular affection of his mind now wanting this remembrance but it was fully and wholly according to Gods wilâ—… in the generall disposition of his mind and whole man You would faine vphold a contrariety to Gods will in the praiâ—…rs of Christ and though they be neither in trueth nor in sense repugnant to Gods will yet you say there is a repugnancy in the particular affection of his mind As appeareth by his adding Not my will but thy will be done Howbeit you heard before out of Zanchius a very learned and very sufficient Diuine l Zambius de triâ—…us Elâ—…him parte 2. li. 3. ca 9. Râ—…sponsio 2. Quare falsum omnino est in Christo diuersam voluntatem a Patris fuisse It is vtterly false that there was in Christ a will diuers from his Fathers will The naturall dislike that man hath of paine and death which is the rule of Gods creation Christ calleth his will because it was the weakenesse of mans flesh in him as he forewarned when he said The spirit is prompt but the flesh is weake to abide the paine and horror of death but this naturall affection when he had confessed to be in himselfe both to shew himselfe to be a true man and naturally affected as we are and also to foreshew that his death should be very painefull and greeuous vnto him he wholly and fully submitted it to his fathers will which indeed was his will and desire euen as he was man as well as his Fathers His owne wordes are m Luc. 22. Desiring I haue desired that is I haue earnestly desired to eat this Passâ—…ouer with you before I suffer And againe n Luc. 12. I must be baptised with a baptisme and how am I grieued till it be ended He desired the time and fâ—…uit of his death he might not desire death in it selfe because it was not only the dissolution of nature but the touch of Gods wrath against the sinne of man and therefore no way to be desired but in regard of consequent effects Neither was there any contrariety in the particular affection of Christs mind to Gods will as you auouch It is a dangerous deuice of yours to make Christes will agreeable to Gods in the generall disposition of his mind but repugnant in his particular affection which you would excuse with a greater error of Now wanting this remembrance But Gods will was as Christes was that Christ in his humane nature should haue an vtter dislike and horror of death which yet for the loue of man and obedience to God he should submit to that will of God whereby he would haue the punishment of our sinnes tedious and grâ—…euous to the Redeemer least it should seeme a sport to ransome vs from the wrath of God Both these wills were in God the Father and the sense of the one and the submission to the other in the humane nature of Christ so that in either part Christs will was conformable to the will of God though his naturall dislike of death and paine yeelded and submitted it selfe to the will of Gods iustice by which he required and exacted the punishment of our sinne in the manhood of Christ. o Defenc. paâ—… 124. li. 30 If you abhorre this â—…n me yet see what Chrysostom taught These wordes NOT AS I VVILL BVT AS THOV VVILT do signifie two willes saith he one of the Father another of the Sonne contrary one to the other Thinke you as Chrysostom doth and then you shall easily be suffered to speake as Chrysostom speaketh For as power and weakenesse are contrary so were the two wills in Christ declaring his two natures the one despising and conquering death which was his diuine will answeareable to his Fathers the other fearing shunning death which shewed him to be a true man As then Christ had two contrary natures yet knit and vnited in one person so had he two contrary wills touching death yet both agreeing and concurring in one end And so much Chrysostom would haue taught you if you had read on the very same place which you quote for your error p Johan
Both these Christ affirmeth in the garden k Matth. 26. vers 53. Thinkest thou saith he to Peter that I cannot now pray to my Father and he will giue me more then twelue Legions of Angels how then should the Scriptures be fulfilled that it must be so And at the second time of his returne to praier l Ibid. vers 42. O my Father if this cup cannot paesse away from me but that I must drinke it that is thereof thy will be donne So that by the first frame of Christs praiers m Ibid. ver 39. O my Father IF IT BE POSSIBLE let this cup passe from me If we vnderstand either Christs purpose to make it appeare that his death reuealed in the Scriptures was now by Gods counsell necessarily required for our redemption and that it was no want of power nor neglect of his safetie that put him into the hands of his enemies but his owne good will obeying the wisedome of his Father for our saluation or els that he desired the sharpenesse of the Cuppe might passe from him so farre as was possible that it might not ouerpresse his strength and patience in either of these two senses the words stand well and haue no touch of declining or disliking the counsell and determination of God to ransome and reconcile the world to himselfe by the death of his Sonne If with Chrysostom Cyril Damascene and others we like to make it the voice of mans weake flesh in Christ but still subiected to the will of God there is no repugnance to the will of God which is alwayes preferred though there be a declining of his hand if it were possible to stand with his will For so long as obedience ouerruleth the sense of nature and nature sheweth nothing but that which is ingraffed in it by Gods power and will I doe not see what aduantage you can take Sir Defender at this third sense of Christes words though we grant the flesh of man to be so created that it shrinketh at the weight of Gods hand and would decline it if it might stand with Gods will Els were it not lawfull to pray that affliction might be ended or eased if we might desire nothing that were possible to be contrary to Gods will since we know not his particular will touching our temporall troubles but by the euent n Defenc. pag. 126. li. 16. Thus Dauids and Christs were not onely possible to be contrarie but contrarie in deede as the sequell shewed You may as well inferre that God himselfe had contrary willes when he repented that he made man when he threatned destruction to Niniâ—…eh and death to King Ezechiah and yet vpon their prayers spared both howbeit it were blasphemie to say that God hath willes indeede contrary one to the other as the sequell sheweth He hath an absolute will working and perfourming in heauen and earth whatsoeuer pleaseth him which cannot be resisted nor frustrated by any means He hath a conditionall will by iustice threatning and punishing vs when we are sinfull and carelesse and by mercy sparing vs when we repent and turne vnto him And this will in him though it worke contrary effects in vs yet it is in him onâ—… and the same will wherewith he giueth his owne as he best liketh pardoneth the penitent and reuengeth the obstinate the one agrâ—…eing with his mercie the other with his iustice So Christ had two willes the one proportioned to Gods creation whereby the flesh shrinketh and shunneth paine the other measured by Gods determination which declared his obedience and in either of these he accorded with the will of God who ment not onely to strike but to haue the stroke felt with paine and griefe to mans nature in Christ. o Defenc. pag. 126. li. 17. Howbeit both their desires were neuerthelesse holy made in faith assured to receiue as conditionall desires may be directed aright prepared sufficiently yet only for this cause seeing Dauid simply knew not Gods contrarie will Christ knew it not at this instant Dauid repented his sin with which God was displeased the more earnestly instantly because he saw the dislike which God had of his fact was the cause of death denounced to his child So that Dauids desire to please and pacifie God with most humble and inward submission the rather if it were possible to auert the wrath of God threatned to his child for his offence had in it pietie charitie humilitie and other good points of godly repentance and his prayer for his child was pardonable because he knew not Gods certaine resolution to the contrarie though he heard the Prophet in Gods name denounce p 2. Sam. 12. the child should surely die which Dauid tooke to be conditionall as other Gods threats are oftentimes the rather to reduce sinners to more zealous and hartie conuersion vnto God But in Christes prayers no such thing can be pretended His not remembring what he knew most assuredly and beleeued most stedfastly could not make his prayers to be prepared sufficiently directed aright and assured to receiue For neither preparation direction faith nor assurance could be in the soule of Christ without vnderstanding and memorie since neither forgetfulnesse nor ignorance of that which we should know doe warrant our prayers to be holy much lesse to be perfect and such as are assured to be heard And if all these conditions of faithfull and Godly prayer were found in Christs petition in the Garden as you confesse shew vs how they could be indeed contrary to Gods knowen will I haue no doubt of all Christes prayers and speaches but they were well aduised rightly prepared and throughly assured to be heard that is perfectly holy as he intended them but Christes not remembring the will of God reuealed to him could not performe or effect these things in his prayer but rather contrariwise his full knowledge and present remembrance of Gods will with exact obedience and submission thereunto Otherwise not remembring that which he well knew might excuse from sinne if hee were so amazed that vnderstanding and memorie failed him but it could not make him assured to receiue since God doth graunt their desires to such as dewly remember and not in such as in part or wholy forget his will Againe not remembring the trueth of Gods will reuealed is not faith in any man since faith is the sure and full perswasion of Gods will and promises toward vs which if we remember not how may we be said to be fully assured and firmely perswaded of them Wherefore you make out this matter with emptie words as your manner is least you should be taken tardie with a plaine error and haue peeced together very vntowardly diuers mens places the head not agreeing with the hâ—…eles since you first defended that Christ was forgetfull and all confounded in all the powers of his soule and senses of his bodie or else he had sinned in praying against Gods knowen will and now you
began to be afrayd and so doth the Geneuian translation of the Bible into English He began to be afraid and in great heauinesse Others more indifferent I shall not neede to repeate You take a course by your selfe that as you differ from all men in opinion so you will in translation of the words For 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 you will haue to be c Defenc. pag. 123. astonished with feare though the rest content themselues to say he began to be afraid d Defenc. pag. 127. li. 6. The Text following doth inuincibly shew that he did fully come to the extreamitie of astonishment and began not onely For did he but begin when he swet clotted bloud trickling from his body to the ground also when an Angell was sent from heauen to refresh him and comfort him did he then but begin to be heauy Your fansies follow so fast without the Text that they run headlong against the Text. That Christ was afraid I doe not deny that he came to the extremitie of astonishment the Scriptures denie howsoeuer you whiske it after your whifling maner that you may seeme a man tried in all toyes The extremitie of astonishment is neither to do nor speake any thing but to be silent and as it were without sense as I haue formerly shewed Your selfe doth so describe it for you say Christ was astonished that is ouerwhelmed and all confounded in all the powers of his soule and senses of his bodie A man in this case hath no right vse of reason vnderstanding memory speach sight or hearing for the time Was Christ so doe your impertinent pushes prooue any such thing doe they not rather prooue the contrary did not Christ speake when he praied did he not rebuke his Disciples for their sleepinesse and admonish them to watch and pray that they entered not into temptation did he not fall to more earnest and vehement praier when his sweat beganne to looke like bloud which you in your learned conceit call clotted bloud The strong cries and teares which you mention doe they not plainly reprooue your supposed astonishment and cleerely confirme that Christ had all the powers of his soule and senses of his body in their full vse when he thus conuerted them with such zeale and contention of mind to this great worke of our redemption what Sadler or Shoemaker would conclude this to be the fulnesse of astonishment which by so manifest circumstances cited by your selfe is irrefragablely refuted and on you run as if you would ouerbeare all the world with such witles words and flaunting follies which only serue to bewray the weakenesse of your owne conceites Feare and sorow I admit in the soule of Christ and religious of either kind in the highest degree that mans nature is capable of A naturall feare of death in the flesh of Christ I likewise acknowledge but I make not these things which you meane the effects thereof What I receiue and what I refuse in our Sauiours agonie I haue so largely deliuered that I must not spend paper to repeate all againe Neither doth Ierom meane that Christ had a touch of feare and no farder as you most fondly misconster him and his wordes where he saith Christ began to be afraid but he meaneth Christ so farre admitted the pearcing and painefull affection of feare for a time required in so great a cause that it neither possessed him wholy nor continually to beare dominion ouer him or to worke any corruption in him which is vsuall in our affections You make your selfe merie with the beginning and neuer consider that Ierom thereby excludeth the heigth of our inordinate affections of feare and sorow such as you bring in when you all confound Christ in his whole humanitie both in all the powers of his soule and senses of his bodie E Defenc. pag. 127. li 33. As for Ierom if he denie this I must craue leaue to dissent from him And from you if you affirme that all wise and Christian Readers must dissent without your leaue For it is not onely false and directly repugnant to the text but it is extremely wicked and impious to bring that confusion which you mention and forgetfulnesse into all the powers of Christs soule and senses of his body f Ibid. li. 27. I thinke all to little sufficiently to expresse our Lords sufferings for vs. You must then thinke the doctrine pen of the holy Ghost to be most vnsufficient that continually clearely proposeth the sufferings of the son of God for our saluation without any such presumptuous and irreligious speaches And howsoeuer you commend your deuotion in g Ibid. li. 31. labouring to shew how Christ loued vs and to what basenesse of our nature he submitted himselfe for our sake learne first to content your selfe with that which the wisedome and iustice of God required of his sonnes humane nature and the trueth of God witnesseth in the Scriptures and so shall you honour the sufferings of Christ as you ought to doe and not deuise new helles and new damnations for him to please your violent fansiâ—…s And as new is your deuotion as strange if the whole Church of Christ before your time neâ—…er knew nor heard how Christ loued his and to what he submitted himselfe for their sakes but haue all this while erred in beleeuing following the direction of Gods spirit in the word of trueth and life since they wanted all knowledge of your hellish torments and confusion which you haue lately inuented for the soule of Christ as the more principall part of our redemption and without which the death of the Crosse to which he was obedient was nothing worth h Defenc. pag. 127. li. 38. Nay God forbid we should reioyce in any thing so much neither can we praise and magnifie him for any thing so highly as we may and ought for this extreme abasing of Christ for vs. There was neuer no hereticke that could not cast a shew of pietie vpon his erroneous pretences Satan doth transforme himselfe into an Angel of light and falshood alwayes seeketh to put on the vizard of trueth Is it not thankes worthie that the sonne of God would leaue the vse and honour of his diuine glory wherein hce was equall to his Father and take vnto him the shape of a seruant with all the basenesse and weaknesse of our flesh and with the shame and paine of his death on the crosse make satisfaction for our sinnes and by his blood redeeme vs to God which is the emptying of himselfe expressed by the Apostle in the place abused and misapplied by you but you must teach all this is skant worth thankes if Christ did not suffer in soule the second death which is the lake burning with fire and brimstone and euen the very paines of the damned that you might be indeede beholding vnto him And what if another as wise as you will say that all which Christ suffered heere on earth was
determine cleane contraries in one sentence which were open inconstancie and no way imaginable in the Sonne of God or this latter must remoue the former being repugnant to the maine consent of his will and intent of his comming For therefore came he into this houre of mans redemption because he would not be saued from it with mans destruction And thus much the best and most skilfull Interpreters haue collected to be the force of the wordes following to which Christ addeth the coniunction aduersatiue 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which in their iudgement supposeth heere a negatiue precedent So Chrysostom conceiueth our Sauiours words I do not say saue me from this houre And why Because the words following with an aduersatiue repugnance to the former words doe proue not the first but the last to be Christs full purpose h Defenc. pag. 129. li. 38. Chrysostom Epiphanius doe descant about it trying how the text may beare such a meaning but it can not stand being so euidently against the course of the text Indeed Chrysostom and Epiphanius are not comparable to you neither in learning nor iudgement you make vs such new positions and principles both of reason and faith that their Diuinitie is stale to yours but with all learned and wise men the yongest of the twaine will be trusted for the true sense of a text farre before such Dreamers and Deuisers as you are The course of the text is euidently against it you say What course of the text The words vsed by our Sauiour are with it But therefore came I into this houre What sense or meaning can this sentence haue but that Christ purposely comming into this houre had no resolution to be deliuered from this houre which being true the former words Father saue me from this houre may shew the desire or doubt of nature inclining to that petition but the present refusall thereof followeth expressing Christes will and purpose in putting himselfe into that houre These words then But therefore came I into thiâ—… houre are in effect not so for therefore came I into this houre Which the best Interpreters olde and new haue obserued in the force of Christes words i Chrysost. in Johaâ—…nem homil 66. Therefore came I into this houre as if Christ had sayd sayth Chrysostom though we be moued and troubled yet we flee not death For I say not thus as my resolution Father deliuer me from this houre but Father glorifie thy name And Epiphanius k Epipha li. 2. Heres 69. What shall I say Father speaking by way of preparation and dubitation 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 This sayth Christ I will say but therefore came I into this houre For he came not against his will but willingly Theophylact l Theophylact. in 12. cap. Johannis For this cause sayth Christ came I into this houre that I might suffer death for all He teacheth vs very plainly by this that though we be troubled and perplexed with it yet we should not flie death for the truth For I sayth he am troubled being a true man and permit mans nature to shew it selfe yet do I not say to my Father that he should saue me from this houre but what say I Father glorifie thy name The later Writers of no meane iudgement allow the same sense Erasmus thus rendreth the summe of Christes words m Erasm. paraphra in cap. 12. Johannis I finde my soule troubled for the day of my death now approching And what shall I say For the loue of mine owne life shall I neglect the life of the world By no meanes I will applie my selfe to the will of my Father Mans weaknesse troubled with feare of death may say vnto him Father if it be possible saue me from this instant danger of death But Loue desirous of mans saluation shall presently adde Nay ra-rather if it be expedient let death which I desired come for somuch as wittingly and willingly by the leading of the spirit I haue offered my selfe to die These words n Bullingerâ—… in ca. Joh. 12. Bullinger citeth and calleth an excellent explication of that text Gualter in like maner o Gualteruâ—… homilia 118. in 12. ca. Johannis This is as if Christ had sayd Let no man thinke me as a cowardly captaine to exhort others to patience and constance being my selfe safe from danger For death approcheth me and that so cruell and bitter that the very remembrance thereof troubleth my soule What then shall I say when amongst men there is no hope To thee ô Father I turne saue me from the houre of this terrible death But what do I say Euen therefore came I into this houre What other thing then shall I aske ô Father but that thou shouldest gloriâ—…ie thy name Doe all these learned Interpreters wrest this text and speake they against all reason without considering the nature and frame of the wordes or doe they out of the very frame and force of the wordes deduce Christes resolution to be this Father glorifie thy name notwithstanding my former words since I came of purpose into this houre not to be freed from it The first words p Defenc. pag. 129. li. 36. pretend a plaine resolution or at least a great inclining towards resolution If a plaine resolution then Christ contradicteth himselfe with a plainer resolution in the end which to affirme of the Sonne of God aduise you whether it be blasphemous or no. As for an inclination since Christ made no idle deliberation but spake out of his naturall humane affection abhorring death that maketh wholly with my speech affirming that howsoeuer the sense of nature in Christ did incline to auoid death in this debating with himselfe yet he presently refused it by saying But therefore came I into this houre and fully resigned it when he sayd Father glorifie thy name which resolution of his God ratified with his owne voice from heauen I haue glorified it and will glorifie it q Defenc. pag. 130. li. 10. Hence I reasoned effectually before but no where you answere it If Christs such suffeings in his soule were ordained of God for him then certainly indeed he did suffer the same Certainly indeed a man shall scant meet with such another that disdaineth all mens reasons and interpretations besides his owne and when he commeth to conclude any thing can hardly discerne an Owle from an Eagle Here is a profound argument made for your hell paines that Christes soule was troubled with the foresight and remembrance of his death on the Crosse ergo God ordained that certainly and indeed he should suffer in his soule the paines of the damned Children in their cradles if they could prattle would easily match the goodnesse of this reason and other answer as it needeth none so it shall haue none for me how effectuall soeuer this fansie seemeth vnto you r Defenc. pag. 130 li. 17. Further you except that this was feare of eternall death which caused in
death for which we must not pray But whosoeuer is borne of God sinneth not that sinne and so neither Christ who was the true Sonne of God nor any of his chosen who are the children of God by adoption can sinne that sinne nor die that death because he that is begotten of God liueth by God who is eternall life to all that know him and cleaue vnto him without separation If then the sinnes of the Elect be not vnto death but such as we in pietie may and in charitie must pray for consequently the death of the soule here meant by Saint Iohn is such as is not incident to any of the sonnes of God and so not the temporall hell which you communicate to Christ and his members Heere are your eight places of Scriptures proouing as you pretend the second death of the soule which you ascribe to Christ in euery one of which saue the first and second there can be no question but euerlasting damnation is intended and in those two the guiltinesse of eternall death which is due to sinne may be comprised in the name of death which the Apostle iustifieth when he sayth t Rom. 5. v. 12. The offence of one came on all men vnto condemnation which is in effect that he sayd before Death went ouer all men forasmuch as all men haue sinned But that any of these intend your temporall hell brought into this life not by snares and feares working on the soules of men but by substance and essence and not eternall death in hell fire with the Diuell and his Angels you nor all your adherents shall euer be able by any ground of holy Scripture to make it appeare And therefore your presuming it vpon the bare shew of places concluding no such thing is a pestilent intrusion vpon the word of God whiles you sticke not to couple your conceits which are false and erroneous with his vndoubted and vndefiled trueth x Defenc. pag. 135. li. 31. First ordinarily and commonly it belongeth only to the damned wherewithall are the ordinarie accidents and concomitants desperation induration vtter darknesse c. with perpetuitie of punishment and that locally in HELL Generally and truely the Scriptures neuer vse the name of the second death but for the lake burning with euerlasting fire into which the Diuell and all the Reprobate shall be cast and whatsoeuer you otherwise pretend is your owne absurd deuice without the Scriptures and against the Scriptures to keepe your doctrine from open derision and detestation And since your selfe acknowledge that this is the ordinarie and vsuall doctrine of the Scriptures it shal be needfull for your Reader to hold you to that till you fully proue your extraordinarie deuice by the same Scriptures by which the other is euidenly confirmed and so much openly confessed by you y Defenc. pag. 135. li. 36. In this sense the Fathers generally do take it where they denie that Christ suffered the death of the soule and so do we If your cause haue so little holde in the Scriptures it hath lesse in the Fathers who in the necessarie worke of our redemption thought it sacriledge to say any thing that was not apparently proued by the Scriptures And as you light not on a true word when you come to deliuer vs the mysteries of your new hell so this is patently false that the Fathers generally take the death of the soule for eternall damnation only when they denie that Christ died the death of the soule They speake as the Scriptures leade them and confessing two deaths of the soule as the Scriptures doe which are sinne excluding all grace and the wages of sinne euen euerlasting damnation they generally denie that Christ died any death of the soule and haue for confirmation of their doctrine therein the whole course of the sacred Scriptures concurring with them x Defenc. pag. 135. li. 37. Secondly the death of the soule or the second death may be extraordinarily and singularly considered namely to imply no more but simply the very nature and essence of it You broach two apparent and euident vntrueths which you make the whole foundation of your presumptuous errour First that either Christ or his Elect in this life did or do suffer the very nature and essence of the second death Next that the Scriptures do singularly and extraordinarily reserue that kinde of second death for Christ and his members Shew either of these by the word of God before you make them grounds of your doctrine or els any meane Reader may soone conceiue you meane to teach no trueth confirmed in the Scriptures but a bolde and false deuice of your owne which you would extraordinarily intrude vpon the word of God a Defenc. pag. 136. li. 5. This is a death to the soule as before we haue shewed according to this sense the Scriptures and Fathers before noted may rightly be vnderstood not to denie it in Christ. When you glaunced before at the death of Christes soule you prayed vs to haue patience When the Defender shouâ—…d proue the death of Christs soule he sayeth bee hâ—…th proued it already till you came to the place where we should receiue a reasonable satisfaction and now you are come to the place where you should make iust and full proofe thereof you send vs backe againe and say you haue shewed it before What meaneth this doubling and deceiuing of your Reader but that you would seeme to haue many proofs when indeed you haue none and therefore you post vs to and fro to seeke for that we shall neuer finde In the 113. Page of this Defence you went about by your miserable misconstruing of certaine wordes vsed by some of the Fathers to enforce a shew of a death on the soule of Christ but against the haire as there I haue proued and therefore stand not on your former vnfortunate aduentures but either heere make proofe by the Scriptures that Christ died the death of the soule or leaue prating and publishing it so confidently as you and your adherents do for the chiefe part of mans redemption The Scriptures and Fathers you say before noted may rightly be vnderstood not to denie it in Christ. Is this all you haue to say for the death of Christes soule that the Scriptures and Fathers may be vnderstood not to denie it The Scriptures must affirme it before you can make it any point of Christian religion or part of our reconciliation to God b Rom. 10. Faith is by hearing and hearing by the word of God and not by not denying If that be your course to put any thing to the Creed which you list to say the Scriptures doe not denie you may quickly haue a large Creed containing all things which the Scriptures abused with your figures and wrested to your fansies shall not in expresse words as you thinke denie c Defenc. pag. 136. li. 9. Moreouer let it be obserued that if we had no proofes at all
in Scripture for this point yet our question is fully proued and confirmed by those other sufficient and pregnant proofs alleaged and iustified before Your palpable and pregnant follies are sufficiently seene before your proofs were none but bald and false presumptions conceiued by your selfe though otherwise voide of all reason and authoritie with such props you haue hitherto supported your Defence and now you be come to the maine issue whether the Scriptures or Fathers doe teach that Christ for our redemption died the death of the soule or the death of the damned which is the second death you would passe it ouer as a matter of no moment and here tell vs if you had no such proofe as indeed you haue none yet you haue played your part before which was to set a good face on an euill cause and to proue iust nothing d Defenc. pag 136. li. 13. For it is to be noted that no man setteth the question in these tearmes that Christ died in his soule neither doe we at all vse them very much in speaking of this matter The Scriptures themselues set that for the question First of all I e 1. Cor. 15. deliuered vnto you sayeth Paul that which I receiued how that Christ died for our sinnes according to the Scriptures Since then f Rom. 5. we were reconciled to God by the death of his Sonne and Christ is the g Hebr 9. Mediatour of the New Testament through death for the redemption of the transgressions in the former Testament and where a Testament is there must be the death of him that made the Testament The question riseth of it selfe what death the Sonne of God died for our sinnes by the witnesse of holy Scripture And hitherto for these fifteene hundred yeeres and vpward the Christian world both of learned and vnlearned hath beleeued that the Sonne of God by the death of his bodie on the tree ransomed our sinnes reconciled vs to God and vtterly destroyed the kingdome of Satan and that he neither did nor could suffer any other kinde of death as the death of the soule or the So that the reference of the Apostles words standeth thus he offered vp praiers and supplications with strong cries and teares to him that was able to saue him from all touch of death and was heard in that he prayed for and though he were the sonne and god was able to keepe him vntouched of death that is to make him the Sauiour of the world without tasting any kind of death yet such was Gods counsell and his owne liking that he learned or perfourmed the obedience of a sonne by the things which he suffered Whereby the Apostle teacheth vs it was neither want of power in God that Christ died for God was able to haue saued the world by him without his death neither was it lacke of fauour towards his sonne for God HEARD him in that he asked but to manifest in his person the perfect submission of a sonne to his father God would haue him obedient to death euen vnto the death of the crosse and so make him the author of eternall saluation to all that obey him As he obeied God his Father Those words then Christ offered praiers to him that was able to keep him from death prooue not death to be the cause of Christs feare nor the scaping therefrom to be the scope of Christes strong cries and teares but the Apostle thereby noteth that Christ neither doubted of his Fathers power nor loue when he praied so earnestly vnto him but was assured of both and enioyed both in such sort as might best stand with the honor and wisedome of God the father and of Christ his sonne And therefore all your collections and illations built on that false ground doâ—… fall of themselues as hauing nothing to support them but your idle and vaine supposals a Defenc. pag. 137. li. 6. Your owne selfe doe fully grant and affirme it with me yea you affirme farder then we doe or then the trueth is or possibly can be you say Christ heâ—…re thus feared eternall death and euerlasting damnation I must take no â—…corne to haue you wrest and wring my words to a contrary sense when you offer that course to the Apostles words The place which you quote for proofe of my meaning will conuince you to be a malitious falsifier My words a man would thinke are plaine enough and my exposition of that speach vsed by some men is such that no man of any intelligence or conscience would so grosly peruert it Thus I say pag 23. b Serm. pag. 23. li. 4. Distrust of his owne saluation or doubt of Gods displeasure against himselfe we cannot so much as imagine in Christ without euident want of grace and losse of faith which we may not attribute to Christs person no not for an instant And againe c Ibid. li. 17. I refraine to speake what wrong it is to put either doubtfulnâ—…sse or forgetfulnesse of these things in part of Christs humane nature And to the question thereon demanded d li. 20. Why then did he pray that the cup might passe from him I answere he had no need to pray for himselfe but only for vs who then suffered with him and in him What learning I cannot say but what lewdnesse is this to father that on me which I fully forsake and still to presse me with that which I so often preuent and repell I did not intend in my Sermons to note any by name nor sharply to censure their sayings but repeating as much as I saw I gaue the best construction or mittigation to their words that any trueth would endure Where then some men whom by your importunity you haue vrged me to name as the Catechisme of master Nowel which you would seeme so much to reuerence in plaine words auoucheth that Christ was e Pag. 280. 〈◊〉 mortis horrore perfusus perfused or plunged with the horror of etâ—…rnall death And master Caluin saith f Institutione li. 2. ca. 16. sect 10. Oportuit 〈◊〉 cum inferorum copijs 〈◊〉 mortis horrore quasi consertis manibus luctari Christ was to wrâ—…si â—…ith the powers of hell and with the horror of eternall death as it were hand to hand Their words suppressing their names I there taught might be tolerated if we tooke horror for a religious feare only trembling at the terror of hell and praying against it or did attribute that trembling and feare of eternall death to Christ in respect and compassion of vs that were his members and whom he ioined and reckened in his sufferings for vs as one person or body with him Which moderation of mine you euery where conceale and make your Reader beleeue that I fully grant and affirme that which I expressely denie And not content therewith you enterlace my words with your lewd additions as if I said Christ thus feared eternall death You meane with strong cries and teares and
of sacred and prophane writers for farder proofe hereof but these are enough to shew that Chrysostom Photius Oecumenius Theophylactus and other Graecians commenting on those words of the Apostle did not forget the propriety of their owne tongue when they expounded this text as declaring that Christ was heard for the reuerend respect of God to his sonne or for the religious submission of the sonne to his Father and the Latin Fathers Ierom Ambrose Primasius Sedulius Bede Haymo and others following the same translation did not erre of ignorance but duely considered the nature and force of the Apostles words Where then you haue made vs a stout conclusion that Christ thus fearing could feare nothing but the death of the soule or the second death you cannot iustly prooue by any words heere vsed that Christ had any feare much lesse such a feare as you imagine though I may safely grant a feare and such a feare as the Scriptures describe or expresse of Christ and you nothing the neerer to your presumptuous conceit Now if we giue eare to the auncient Fathers discussing this place your deuice hath neither strength nor stay in these words p Ambros. in 5. ca. epistolae ad Hebreos Beatus Paulus hic dicit preces cum et supplicationes fundere non timore mortis sed nostrae causa salutis Vnde in alio loco dicit sanguinem Christi melius clamasse pro nobis quam sanguinem Abel Blessed Paul heere saith as Ambrose writeth that Christ offered praiers and supplications not for any feare of his owne death but for the cause of our saluation Wherevpon in another place Paul saith the bloud of Christ cried better things for vs then the bloud of Abel And againe q Ibidem Totum quicquid egit Christus in carne preces sunt supplicationes propeccatis humani generiâ—… All whatsoeuer Christ did in the flesh were praiers and supplications for the sinnes of mankind So saith Primasius r 〈◊〉 in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ad Heâ—…reos All that Christ did in the flesh were praiers and supplications for the sinnes of mankind and the sacred shedding of his bloud was a strong crie in which he was heard of God his Father for his reuerence That is for his voluntary obedience and most perfect charity s Ibidem Christ heere is sayd to haue powred forth prayers and supplications not for feare of death but rather in the 〈◊〉 our saluation And we must note that reuerence as Cassiodorus sayth is taken sometimes for loue and sometimes for feare but here it is put for the exceeding loue wherewith the Sonne of God embraced vs and for the perfect obedience whereby he was subiect to his Father euen vnto death So Sedulius t 〈◊〉 in 5. ca. 〈◊〉 ad Hebreos Christ prayed with teares not soed for feare of death but for our saluation and was heard of God the Father when the Angel did comfort him For his reuerence either his with his fathers or his fathers towards him Haymo treadeth in the same steps with Primasius u 〈◊〉 in 5. ca. 〈◊〉 ad Hebrâ—…os The Apostle speaketh this of Christ meaning plainly to expresse what our hie Priest â—…id in his Priesthood What is in the daies of his flâ—…sh as long as he dwâ—…lt in this mortall body he offered vp praiers and supplications with strong cries and teares to God his father All that Christ did in the flesh were 〈◊〉 and supplications for the sinnes of mankind and the sacred shedding of his bloud was a strong crie 〈◊〉 herein he was heard of God his Father for his reuerence that is for his voluntary 〈◊〉 and most perfect charity God heard him in raising him vp the third day as the Psalmist saith thou wilt not suffer thine holy one to see corruption If then the Apostles purpose were to note as these Fathers affirme that Christ all the time of his conuersing heere with men shewed himselfe our hie Priest with strong cries and teares for vs to God that was able to saue him and his members from death or to raise him againe from death as conquerer thereof and was heard for his religious obedience and loue to God and man what shew hath the death of Christes soule in these words or what sequence from them Neither is there any part of this exposition that wanteth good warrant from the Scriptures and likewise allowance from the fathers For bâ—…sides that Christ said to Paul as yet a persecutor x Acts 9. Saul Saul why persecutest thou me not in person but in members the Apostle setteth these things downe for assuâ—…ed points of doctrine that y Rom. 6. our old man was crucified with Christ and we z 〈◊〉 2. buried with him and raised vp and quickened together with him and a 〈◊〉 2. made sit together in heauenly places in Christ Iesus b 〈◊〉 de 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ad 〈◊〉 li. 2. We were in him as in a second first fruits or new restoring of our nature praying with a strong crie and not without teares desiring the impery of death to be abolished and the life which was at first giuen to our nature to be restored But here of I haue spoken so much before that I may spare my paines in this place Only if we follow the 〈◊〉 which the Syriak interpreter proposeth agreeable to the greeke and latin Fathers that Christ c Testamentum 〈◊〉 ca. 5. ad Hebreos when he was compassed with flesh offered praiers and petitions with a vehement crie and teares to him that was able to raise him or quicken him from death and was heard We need none other subuersion of all your syllogismes For then the thing which Christ so earnestly desired with strong cries and teares was the resurrection of himselfe and of all his members after the death of the body into a perpetuall and celestiall life d Defenc. pag. 137. li. 22. When in the garden Christ praied against that cup which he feared that it might passe from him there he yeeldeth and submitteth himselfe presently to the vndergoing of it But it were I know not what to saie that Christ did euer yeeld and submit himselfe to vndergoe eternall death or to tast the cup of gods eternall malediction Therefore it was not this that he feared and heere praid against You are somwhat idle headed to make such a stur for that which I am farder from then you are At the sharpenesse of Christs bodily death which he would not frustrate nor mitigate and in the paines whereof he was to yeeld more perfect obedience and patience then all mankind besides was able to doe the weaknesse of his humane flesh might naturally somewhat stagger and the power of Gods hand against sinne which might be laied on his â—…oule or body he might vehemently but righteously feare and with strong cries and teares deprecate the force thereof and in neither of these is there any vicinity with the second death or with
the death of the soule and so neglecting what you should prooue you vainly push against that which I doe not vphold And yet if we admit these cries and teares to be powred forth not for himselfe but for vs then might he most wofully bewaile our deserued destruction which was no lesse then euerlasting damnation of body and soule if he did not ransome and release vs from it To his fathers will Christ submitted himselfe in the garden but what he disliked in that cup which he named and how much thereof he tasted is knowen neither to you nor to me nor to any man liuing That it was very sharp we may iustly collect by his naturall dislike thereof but what degrees or sorts of paines were adherent to his passion is not for you or me to determine What he might suffer with piety patience and obedience to his father is aboue mans reach to define but the second death or the death of the soule if we follow the leading of the Scriptures and not fall to deuising a new hell and a new death of the soule to support our fansies are things that by no colour of Scripture can be confirmed howsoeuer you straine and stretch the word of God to find them there e Defenc. pag. 137. li. 28. And yet it was I grant the death of the soule or the second death that is simply the 〈◊〉 thereof Gods withdrawing himselfe from him in the paines and torments thereof Your grant is the ground of your doctrine besides that which you haue nothing els to beare the burden of your deuices But what a iest is this when you should iustly prooue and fully conclude your assertions to fall to granting of them whereas your graunt with me and with any man that is wise is not worth a grey goose quill Howbeit these are the best buttresses of your cause euen your owne violent conceits that force the Scriptures to your liking But Sir remember you are neither Prophet nor Apostle and so your granting of these nouelties may shew your owne gyddinesse it cannot preiudice the true and vndoubted rules of the Christian faith Hence it followeth inâ—…incibly that Christ indeed suffered sith thus he feared more then the meere bodily death euen the death of the soule For he could not I say thus feare but he must needes know that it was to come or might come vnto him If he but knew that it might come vnto him then it certainly did come vnto him at one time or another in his passion before he left the world Here is the prime and pride of your obseruations out of this place of the Apostle to the Hebrewes and except a man were out of his witts he would not reuell in this sort with such waterish and witlesse resumptions Palpable vntrueths you call inuincible certainties and trifles wherewith children will not be deceiued you obtrude to the whole Church of Christ as fortresses of their faith Christ feared ergo he suffered more then a bodily death ergo the death of the soule What he knew might come that certainly did come These be such bables that boyes in the street will deride them and yet you conceaue and propose them as Sapientiall and soueraigne collections But he that wilfully wandreth thinketh no way straighter then that he traceth and dreamers are often delighted with empty shadowes now if we take your owne translation the Apostle telleth vs that Christ was heard in that he feared ergo he did not suffer it and though it might come yet because he was freed from it certainly it came not and many things might come more then the death of the body and yet not the death of the soule If then you haue no stronger meanes to conclude the death of Christs soule then these the simplest Reader will soone perceiue that your reasons be as frigent as your humours be feruent and though there be fire in your mind yet there is water in your mouth for you truly conceaue or iustly conclude nothing f Defenc. pag. 138. li. 3. Sec. to the Hebrewes Christ abolished through death him that had the power of death that is the Diuell and so deliuered all them which for feare of death were all their life time subiect to bondage Heere I see no reason in the world but that the Apostle by the often repeating of death and by the naturall referring of it in one place as it were to the other doth vnderstand and signifie one and the same death altogether But it is the death of the soule which the Diuell hath power and execution of also the death of the soule sinnefull men were held in feare of all their life long It followeth then I suppose that euen through the death of the soule Christ abolished the Diuell and deliuered his children I know not whether your eies be open or your braines sound that you see nothing but what pleaseth your selfe And what if they be either so dimme or so dull that you see not the truth is that a reason that your ignorance or wilfulnesse must be the loadstone of our creed with such peeuish and priuate presumption would you preuaile against Scriptures Fathers and the whole church of Christ that what you doe not or will not see we must relinquish as false and erroneous to let you see if you be not blinded with preferring your fansies before the trueth of Christ that this is a lazie loose and lewd argument which heere you make take your owne maior or first proposition that Christ suffered the selfe same death which he abolished whereof the Diuell had power and execution and whereof we were in feare being not redeemed all our life long and set this for the second proposition or assumption but it is most euident that the Diuell had power and execution of eternall death and to the feare of euerlasting Destruction were we subiect all the time of our life before we were deliuered by Christ ergo Christ suffered eternall death and damnation in hell For he abolished that from the faithfull and thereof the Diuell had power and execution as also we were in feare and danger of that without the Redeemer What say you to this conclusion grounded on your owne collection and proposition see you the falsenesse and wickednesse thereof and yet if your assertion be true that Christ must redeeme vs with the same kind of death whereof we were in feare and bondage without him and abolish the Diuell with that verie death whereof he had power and execution the one is as strong as the other But who besides you would warble thus in so waighty matters True it is that the name of death compriseth all the kinds of death I meane of bodie of soule of both for euer and this chaine of death is inseparable and ineuitable where Christ doth not breake it By the malice of the diuell perswading sinne which is the losse of grace and death of the soule in this life came into the
world the death of the bodie that hence both body and soule might be haled to hell though first the soule and after the bodie when at the last day it shall rise from the corruption of the graue to euerlasting destruction To thinke that Christ submitted himselfe to all these sorts of death corporall spirituall and eternall is most hellish blasphemie for so he should not haue redeemed vs but destroyed himselfe bodie and soule foreuer To say that Christ deliuered vs not from all these lincks of death from spirituall death whiles here we liue from eternall death after this life and at the generall resurrection from the power of the graue where our bodies rot in the meane time is heathenish impietie and heresie denying the whole force and fruit of our redemption by Christ. Since then he cleered vs from all and yet suffered not all sorts of death it is manifest which is the Apostles meaning in the wordes by you cited that by one kind of death which in Christ was corporall he freed vs from all power of death heere and heereafter in bodie and soule not preseruing our bodies that they should not turne to dust but restoring them after death which is the farre more marueilous and mightie worke of God And this is euery where so plainly witnessed in the Scriptures and plentifully confessed by the learned and auncient fathers that none but he that is blinder then a bat would professe he seeth no such thing Christ g Matth 20. gaue his life a ransome for many and h Coloss. 2. by the bloud of his crosse pacified things in heauen and in earth i Hebr. 9. By the sacrifice of his bodie once made we are sanctified and k 1. Peter 1. healed by his stripes who bare our sinnes in his bodie on the tree If then the bloud of Christ clense vs from all sinne by which the diuell and death had power ouer vs It is most certaine that Christ abolished sinne and Satan by suffering his bloud to be shed vnto death for the remission of sinnes raising himself that is the Temple of his bodie from death into a glorious and blessed life by which the power and kingdome of Satan were vtterly ouerthrowen l Defenc. pag. 137. li. 15. Against this you haue no reason at all but wordes and wrestings and vaine oftentation of Fathers none of them all denying our sense The reason of all reasons is against it which is that no man nor Angell may adde or alter any thing in the Christian faith without the sure warrant of the sacred Scriptures m Rom. 10. Faith is by hearing and hearing by the word of God It is reason enough for me and for all â—…he faithfull that there is no such thing deliuered in the word of God You talke of words and wrestings as knowing them best and vsing them most and herein I am content to stand to the iudgement of the wise and indifferent Reader whether you haue brought ought yet for the death of Christes soule or his suffering the second death but your owne speaches and surmises abusing the wordes of the holy Ghost to your owne fansies without either cause or colour And touching the vaine ostentation of Fathers who as you vaunt deny not your sense I brought ancient learned writers not ignorant of the Christian faith as being the pillars of their times that with great perspicuitie and vehemence denied as I doe the death of Christs soule and affirmed with me the death which Christ suffered in the body of his flesh to be a most sufficient ransome for the sinnes of the whole world Augustins words were n August epist. 99. The same flesh in which only Christ died rose againe by the quickning of the spirit For that Christ was dead in soule that is in his humane spirit who dare 〈◊〉 since the death of the soule in this life is none else but sinne from which he was altogether free This you say denieth not your sense and why because you auouch the death of Christs soule which Austen asketh who dare auouch to say that Christ suffered the death of the soule is with Austen an impudent and wicked presumption and no part of the Christian faith or of mans redemption Austen by the death of the soule ment sinne you will say which you meane not You say by your leaue that Christ o Trea. pa. 42. li. 20. became defiled and hatefull to God by our sinnes And so if pollution of sinne be the death of the soule that kind of death you ascribe to Christ though not for his owne sinnes yet for ours then made his no lesse by guilt then by punishment as you teach directly against the assertion of Saint Austen who saith p August contra Faâ—…stum li. 14. ca. 4. Christ tooke our punishment without our guilt that thereby he might release our guilt and end our punishment But you vnderstand not Austen when he saith there is no death of the soule here but sinne he doth not thence exclude the consequents and adherents to sinne in this life but noteth that onely sinne doth kill the soule because it doth separate vs from God who is the life of the soule and the light and grace of God departing from the soule by sinne the soule dieth that is looseth all her sense of God and motion to God by which she liueth vnto God This with Austen and this indeede by the word of God is the death of the soule which if you attribute to Christ you incurre open and exquisite infidelitie For your meaning therefore it maketh no great matter if you will offer to correct our Creede you must speake as the Scriptures speake and not deliuer â—…s your priuate dreames for the publike doctrine of Christs Church With like neglect you skip the rest auouched by Saint Austen that Christ died onely in his flesh which rose againe by the quickning of the spirit Wherein least you should vse your accustomed euasion that the flesh of Christ compriseth as well his soule as his bodie Saint Austen hath wisely preuented you in saying the same flesh onely died Which rose againe Where if your learning serue you to say that Christes soule rose againe the third day you shall make vs a new resurrection of soules after this life as the Scripture doth of bodies which were a meete deuice for such a diuine as you are How beit Saint Austen naming Christs soule a part from his flesh and affirming of Christs soule that no man in his right wits dare auouch Christs soule died but onely that flesh which rose againe it is as cleere as mans speech may be that he vtterly refuseth the death of Christs soule as an irreligious and vnchristian position and directly teacheth this as a ground confessed in Christian religion that Christ died in his bodie alone which rose againe the third day and not in his soule which no Christian man durst auouch was euer dead Of
all the elect he saith likewise that they who q August dâ—… 〈◊〉 li. 13. ca. 15. pertaine to the grace of Christ so farre die as Christ died for them Carnis tantum morte non spiritus the death of the flesh onely and not of the spirit If this make not against you nothing that I say maketh against you for I can vse none other nor plainer words thâ—…n Austen and the rest of the Fathers doe in teaching that Christ died the death of the bodie onely and not of the soule and that by his death which was onely corporall he destroyed the dominion of sinne and the strength of eueâ—…lasting death r August 〈◊〉 162. There is a first death saith Austen and there is a second The first death hath â—…wo parts one whereby the sinfull soule by transgressing departeth from her creator the other whereby she is excluded from her bodie through the iudgement of God for a punishment The second death is the euerlasting torment of the bodie and soule either of these deaths had euery man obliged vnto them but the immortall and righteous sonne of God came to die for vs in whose flesh because there could be no sinne hee suffered the punishment of sinne without the guilt thereof Wherefore he admitted for vs the second part of the â—…irst death that is the death of the bodie onely by which he tooke from vs the dominion of sinne and the pâ—…ine of eternall punishment Say as Saint Austen here saith and our controuersies are ended If he denie not your sense you may the sooner accept this confession of the Catholike and Christian faith from which no man yet swarued these fifteene hundred yeerâ—…s But then you must teare both your Treatise and your defence in pieces For by this as by infinite other places in Austen it is euident first that Christ tooke not vnto him the guilt of our sinne secondly that hee died the death of the bodie onely thirdly that by that his corporall death he destroyed sinne hell and Satan fourthly that the death of the soule he could not die because he could haue no sinne and lastly that he was farre from the second death which is the eternall damnation of bodie and soule Acknowledge these which neuer Christian man yet refused and we shall soone resolue all other questions If you haue of late gotten you a faith besides this and against this generall Creede of all Christendome looke well to your new deuices you may sooner be excluded from the faith then your fansies be included in the faith s Defenc. pag. 137. li. 17. Thirdly it seemâ—…th also that Peter teacheth the same saying Christ in his suffering was donne to death in the flesh but made aliue by the spirit Where death may be very well referred both to the soule and bodie of Christ because the text heere speaketh as I iudge of the whole and entire sufferings of Christ. Be these the demonstrations you bring vs out of the Scriptures for the death of Christes soule that these words of Peter MAY BE referred both to the soule and bodie of Christ IT SEEMETH SO and YOV IVDGâ—… SO To you that hunt after your conceits in euery syllable of the scriptures that is any thing doutfull may things SEEME that are not and if you may be iudge what sense eche place may beare we shall quickely haue a new doctrine and discipline in the Church of God framed to your fansies though no way deduced by iust proofe from the word of God But heere Christian Reader thou mayest see the foundation of this new redemption by the death of Christs soule and his suffering the second death H. I. so iudgeth and to him it so seemeth Indeede it is common with you and your consorts to set downe euery thing for the vndoubted word of God what you once conceite may seeme to be within the compasse of any text But I hope the wise and Godly Reader will looke better about him then to take your maying your seeming your iudging for the ground of his faith against the plaine and expresse places of the Scriptures and against the continuall and generall vnderstanding of the whole Church of Christ. Yet let vs heare the reason of your seeming since other proofe for your purpose you bring none neither heere nor else where Christ as Peter teacheth was t 1 Peter 3. mortified or put to death in the flesh but quickned in or by the spirit What conclude you out of these words u Dâ—…fenc pag. 137. li. 2â—… The word flesh it seemeth cannot heere in this place be vnderstood to signifie only the bodie of Christ. If that cannot be then was S. Austen much deceiued who out of these very words coÌ„cluded that Christ died in x Epist. 99. flesh alone and not in soule addeth a better reason out of Peters words then you bring any since Christ was in that part mortified in which hee was afterwardes quickned of the soule of Christ as none durst auouch it was euer mortified so neuer being dead there was no cause it should be quickned and therefore neither of these attriâ—…utes agreed to the soule of Christ but to his flesh onely y Defenc. pag. 137. li. 28. My reason is because wheresoeuer in the Scripture the flesh and the spirit are noted oppositely together in Christ there the flesh signifieth alwayes the whole humanity euen both parts thereof the soule also and not only the bodie First that rule hath no ground nor truth and if it were addmitted it proueth no such thing as you would enforce For in a case farre plainer the name of Christ wheresoeuer it is applied to Christ liuing I meane saying suffering or doing any thing there without all question the whole humanitie is comprised in that name since Christes bodie without his soule could neither say suffer nor doe any thing And yet were it mad diuinitie to attribute euery action and passion affirmed of Christ in the Scriptures as well to his soule as to his bodie That Christ sate that he hungred that he did eate that he slept and was circumcised buffited whipped and a number such like are auouched in the Scriptures of Christ liuing that is of his whole â—…umanitie for without bodie and soule he could doe nor suffer none of these things And yet I trust you will not therefore conclude that Christs soule did 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 eate or sit or that it was circumcised buffited and whipped as well as his body So that the word may containe the whole man as doubtles the name of Christs 〈◊〉 doth and yet the things ascribed to the person doe not alwayes properly agree to both parts alike For so we shall make the soule to haue flesh and bones as well as the bodie hath which weâ—…e to make it no soule but a bodie Wherefore your illation is as weake as your obseruation is false and you farre from inferring your purpose I know the soule doth partake in all
these and such like actions and passions with the bodie For the force to doe and since to feele is from the soule and so in the death of the bodie the soule is partaker with the bodie not to lie dead and senselesse as the bodie doth but to feele the paine of death and suffer the separation from the bodie 〈◊〉 the effects of death appeare in the bodie But that the soule doth die when the whole compound of bodie and soule dieth is no consequent neither in Philosophie nor Diuinitie z Defenc. pag. 137. li. 20. The text heere speaketh as I iudge of the whole and intire sufferings of Christ. The text heere speaketh of death bereauing life which was after re-â—…stored when Christes bodie was againe quickned by the power of his spirit the rest of Christes sufferings during the whole time of his life are not comprised in the name of death otherwise Peter must haue sayd Christ was alwayes dead since his affections 〈◊〉 with circumcision if not before which is no part of Peters speach nor meaning yea rather it is repugnant to both since Peter saith Christ a 1. Peter 3. suffered once fâ—…r sinnes when he was put to death and not euer and alwayes whiles he liued on â—…arth b Defenc pag. 137. li. 35. Against this obseruation what pretended you some Scriptures palpably abused first Matthew where Christ speaketh of his Disciples that their spirit their inward regenerate man was ready to watch bâ—…t their flesh their corrupt Nature was weake and sluggish 〈◊〉 is this to Christs flesh and spirit If my authoritie were as good as yours and my learning as great I could say as you doe I iudge it so but if I shew not better reason for me to aâ—…firme those wordes Christ ment of himselfe then you doe or can that he ment them not of himselfe I am content your consistorian seeming shall goe before my laborious proouing my vse is not to relie too much on mine owne iudgement as you doe though I thanke God I can examine both your and other mens interpretations but when I finde a thing maturely and rightly considered and concoâ—…ded by the learned and auncient Fathers in matters of faith or exposition of the Scriptures I goe not easily from them Tertullian saith c Tertullianus de suga in persecutione Christ himselfe professed his soule was 〈◊〉 vnto death his flesh weake that he might shew to thee there were in himselfe both the substaâ—…ces of man by the propertie of heauinesse in the soule and weakenesse in the flesh Athanasius likewise d Athanasius de Passione Cruâ—…e 〈◊〉 A little afore his death Christ cried the spirit was willing but the flesâ—… weakâ—… that our aduersarie the diuell encountring him as a man might feele his diuine power Theophilus Alexandrinus e 〈◊〉 epistola Paschali prima contra Appollinaristas If Christ tooke onely the flesh of man and not the soule of man why in his Passion did he say the spirit is prompt but the flesh weake Ambrose f Ambros. ls 4. in 〈◊〉 ca. 4. If Christes body had beene spirituall he would not haue said the spirit is prompt but the flesh is weake Heare the voice of either in Christ as well of weake flesh as of a readie spirit The auncient writer among the works of Saint Austen g De Salutaribus documentis ca. 64. The trueth it selfe our Lord Iesus Christ saith of himselfe the spirit is prompt but the flesh weake Cyrill h Cyrill Thesauri li. 10. ca. 3. Though Christ abhorred death as a man yet as a man he refused not to doe the will of his Father and his owne as God and therefore he said the spirit is prompt but the flesh is weake Vigilius i Vigilius contra 〈◊〉 li. 5. ca. 4. What is that wherein he suffered and tried weakenesse but mans nature whereof he said at the time of his passion the spirit is prompt but the flesh weake tasting of which infirmitie he learned to helpe the weake Seuerianus k Seuerianus contra Nonatum citatur a 〈◊〉 contra 〈◊〉 hem My soule saith Christ is he auic vnto death And interpreting to what his Passions pertained the spirit saith he is ready but the flesh weake Remigius l 〈◊〉 in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 26. 〈◊〉 a Tho. 〈◊〉 in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 In these words Christ sheweth that he tooke true flesh of the Virgine and that he had a true soule Wherefore he now saith that his spirit is ready to suffer but that his weake flesh feareth the paine of his Passion Euthymius m 〈◊〉 in 〈◊〉 My God my God said Christ why hast thou for saken me that is why hast thou left me in this feare knowing my spirit is ready but my flesh weake What thinke you had I no more reason to say as I saide then you haue to denie it where also you may note that all these learned Fathers refuse your lame obseruation as well as I doe and so you had neede seeke some better authoritie then your owne or perhaps some one that 〈◊〉 you with this rule seruing to none other end but to helpe forward your hell fansie n 〈◊〉 pag. 139. li. 1. Thinke you that Christs soule was willing to suffer as God had appointed but that his flesh resisted veâ—…ily so you seeme heere to vnderstand and it is as likely as your applying of flesh and spirit to Christ in your pag. 104. Put on your visard before you take in hand to controle the iudgement of so many Fathers Your pride is greater then your wit in this and most things that passe your pen. Is it such newes to you for me or for them to say that Christes flesh was weake that is not so ready to suffer as was his soule seeth your mastership no difference betwixt weakenesse and resistance specially when in comparison of the readinesse of the spirit the flesh is said to be weaker that is lesse ready to suffer then the soule doth not the Apostle applie the same word vnto Christ when he saith Christ was o 2. Cor. 13. crucified through weakenesse and long before the Prophet said of Christ p Esa. 53. He is a man full of sorrowes and one that hath experience in infirmites So that your cholor was kindled without cause when you strooke such an heat with my saying that Christs flesh was weake the Prophet foretold he should be a man full of sorrowes and well acquainted with infirmities The vntrue conceit which you challenge in the 104. Page of my Sermons touching Christes flesh where I sayd it must haue force to cleanse and quicken when you impugâ—…e I will defend in the meane time it may serue I savd nothing but what our Saâ—…iour sayd before me q Iob. 6. vers 56. 54. He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my bloud dwelleth in me and I in him he hath eternall life and I will raise him vp at the last
ca. 1. epist. ad Rom. through the spirit of sanctification He meaneth by the holy Ghost which Christ gaue to the beleeuers in him Theodulus x Theodulus in cap. 1. 〈◊〉 ad Romanos through the spirit of sanctification that is by the holy spirit which Christ gaue to those that beleeued in him Theophylactus y Theophylact. in ca. 1. epist. ad Romanos by the spirit of sanctification that is by the spirit with which he maketh the beleeuers holy Haymo z Haymo in ca. 1. epistolae ad Romanos the spirit of sanctification is heere taken for the holy Ghost who giueth sanctity to men and Angels who also fashioned quickened and sanctified Christs manhood in the Virgins womb of the seed of the Virgin without the seed of man The new writers with one consent as Erasmus Zuinglius Peter Martyr Bullinger Musculus Gualter Hemmingius Aretius and Caluine himselfe follow the same interpretation so that your obseruation against and after all their iudgements is misbegotte and borne out of time and brought in of purpose to paue the way for your new found fansies which haue no ground but in your new made notes as much crossing probabilitie as authoritie Yea the obseruation wrongeth the distinction of the persons in the most blessed Trinitie and dishonoreth rather the Deitie of the Sonne of God then aduanceth it whiles the Sonne of God and the spirit of holinesse being both expresly named you take them both for one person and make the Sonne of God in his diuine nature to be lesse then the possessor or giuer of life and righteousnesse eueu a receauer of both For in all these places where you say the name of spirit is vsed to signifie Christs Godhead the power and worke of the holy Ghost is there intended and expressed as that Christ was a Rom. 1. declared to be the Sonne of God by the spirit of sanctification and was b 1. Tim. 3. God manifested in the flesh iustified by the spirit as also c 1. Pet. 3. mortified in the flesh but quickned by the spirit The spirit of sanctification is the title of the holy Ghost sanctifying as well the Manhood of Christ as his members and the giuing thereof declareth the Sonne to be true God whose spirit this is as well as the Fathers and by whom the Sonne worketh as well as the Father And where it is written that Christ was Iustified and quickned by the spirit if there you reade in the spirit meaning in the Deitie of Christ then Christes Godhead receaued life and righteousnesse which by your leaue is a speech ne allowed ne frequented in the Scriptures For though the second person in Trinitie by his internall and eternall generation receaued all that he hath from the Father who begat him yet of this generation which is secret substantiall and eternall the Apostles speake not when they say Christ was quickned and iustified but the one sheweth that Christes body which was put to death was raised againe to life by the power of his spirit the other noteth that he was God manifested in the flesh and iustified that is prooued and confirmed so to be by the mightie workes and graces of Gods spirit shewed as well in his owne person as in all his members For that is the intent of the Apostles wordes not that his diuine glorie was onely praised or acknowledged of men but that the world beleeued the Angels admired the spirit iustified that is most mightily and cleerely witnessed him to be God manifested in the flesh Then hath your obseruation his full discharge since there is no one place where these wordes the spirit and flesh are applied to Christ to note his two natures though his Godhead be testified and plainely prooued in most of the same places by more pregnant wordes then spirit which is common to Angels soules and windes and onely sheweth that it is no palpable or sensible body where the name of spirit alone in the Scriptures standing for the third person in Trinity noteth the power and grace of the holy Ghost by which these things were wrought for Christs manhood And in that place of Peter on which you most depend if you follow the Syriac translation to which your owne adherents so often appeale the Apostles words are Christ was dead in body but liuâ—…d in spirit which conuinceth first that flesh is there taken for the body of Christ contrary to your obseruation and that Christ still liued in spirit which euerteth your maine conclusion intended from this place for the death of Christs soule But were it as you suppose that flesh and spirit were ascribed to Christ to declare his two natures the one to be corporall and humane the other to be spirituall and diuine how doth it follow that euery thing affirmed of his manhood must properly agree both to body and soule by what Logicke conclude you that you may as well auouch that Christs soule is truely corporall or carnall because it is comprised vnder the name of flesh as that other attributes of the body are verified in the soule Which if you thinke absurd though the name of flesh by a figure of speach import the whole man because the Scripture speaketh not of a dead but of a liuing man then is there lesse cause that ech action or passion affirmed of the flesh should exactly or properly be referred to the soule since the common vse of speach intending the whole by a part is figuratiue and in figuratiue speaches as where the soule or the flesh are taken for the whole man the attributes cannot be properly restrained to ech part no more then the names are And euen out of those places by which you would collect death to be common to the body and soule of Christ the auncient fathers conclude death to be proper to the body of Christ and not common to the soule as Austin out of Saint Peter d August 〈◊〉 99. Quid est enim quòd viuificatus est spiritu nisi quâ—…d eadem caro qua sola fuer at mortificat us viuificante spiritu resurrexit What other meaning hath this that Christ was quickned by the spirit but that the same flesh in which onely he was put to death rose againe by the quickning of the spirit And Cyrill e Cyrill de recta fide ad 〈◊〉 li. 2. Was it not a worke of infirmitie to endure the crosse I confesse saith Paul hee was weake in the flesh but he reuiued againe by the power of God And how was he weake by suffering his owne bodie to taste death for vs and restoring to life againe that very temple of his bodie not doing this by the weakenessc of his flesh but by the power of God Christ f Ibidâ—…m died for vs not as a man like one of vs but as a God in flesh giuing his owne bodie a ransome for the life of all Wherefore his Disciple Peter saith wisely and warily that
according to Austins meaning who herein ioineth with the Scriptures Christ then lyâ—…ing in soule with perfect obedience and patience and assuredly knowing God to be his God his Father complaineth that he was left or forsaken that is either not deliuered from his troubles afflictions but left in sinners hands to do their pleasure with him or deuested of his power and left through weaknesse vnto death which should for a season seuer his soule from his bodie or lastly lest in this shame of the crosse anguish of body without any open or sensible shew or signe of Gods fauour towards him or care for him All these kindes of forsaking the learned and ancient Fathers acknowledge in Christ on the crosse and other forsaking of the soule they admit none howsoeuer you falsly pretend their full agreement Come now to your conclusion if you could euince that Christes soule was vtterly forsaken of God and depriued of life which you can neuer and to offer it will conuince you of hainous and wilfull heresie and blasphemie yet can you conclude no more but the death of the soule in this life which is either ignorance or contempt of God Hell paines you cannot inferre nor the torments of the damned which are the second death and so your great flourish out of Austen for the death of Christes soule is but a â—…aw And the Reader may see with what vnderstanding and conscience you read and alleage the Fathers that where you acknowledge e Defenc. pag. 142. li. 12. they doe denie this phrase generally that Christ died in soule yet you boldly and lewdly affirme the next line before they f li. 11. grant the thing in effect as if they denied that in wordes which indeed they knew to be a part of the Christian faith and were like you who shift and lie for life to support your owne Deuices But in all these shewes of yours the aduised Reader shall finde nothing but a carelesse and senselesse resolution to saie anie thing rather then to admit a trueth or to relent from the least of your conceits whereof he may haue a full proofe in your words next following g Defenc pag. 142. li. 16. Let this be the answer touching all your Fathers and Councels which you bring abundantly heere and there about this point of the soules death A short answer indeede if it had either trueth or sense in it It is right a colts tricke when he will not or can not endure the loade to cast the whole packe off at once That they generally deny the death of Christes soule you grant and with a brazen face and barren head you adde they meane otherwise they deny not the thing but onely the phrase What is this but to suppâ—… vp the trueth with a sadde countenance and to belch foorth your shame with open mouth had you examined their places your shifts sleights and vntrueths would haue loaden a carrect you haue better now prouided for your selfe with belying them all at once you haue incurred but one inconuenience But like is your Defence to your cause it entred first with aduantage of phrases and so it will end with a wind-mill of wordes Well that the Christian Reader may perceaue how auncient and vniuersally consented and confirmed by the church of Christ this truth hath beene which I teach that Christ died no death for our redemption but the death of the body onely to those Fathers which you say are abundantly brought by me already I will adde others that though there be no care nor conscience in you yet all men in whom there is any sense may see your deuice of the death of Christes soule and of hell paines and the most vehement torments of the damned suffered by him to be not onely a falsitie repugnant to the Scriptures but a noueltie against the maine consent and confession of all antiquitie If their testimonies be long and many thou wilt bâ—…are with me Christian Reader I hope the expence of a little paper to me or paine to thee is not so deare as the cause it selfe both for thy direction and for my discharge First then thou shalt heare that Christ died in bodie alone which is my assertion and withall that Christ died not in soule which is their conceit contradicted by all the Fathers and in the end we will shortly view whether these Fathers crosse their new found redemption in words oâ—… matter The places I thinke good to repeate in Latine or Grecke as much as shall need which otherwise I refraine of purpose to decrease the volume least it should be too great that the Reader should ncither distrust my translating nor make long search for the wordes themselues in ech Writer if happily he desire to see them Tertullian prouing the resurrection of our bodies by Christs example saith h Tertull. de Resurrect carmis ca. 48. Sine dubio si mortuum sisepultum audis secundum scripturas NON ALIAS QVAM IN CARNF aequâ—… resuscitatum in carne conced â—…ipsum enim quod â—…idit in mortem quod iacuit iâ—…sepulchro hoc resurrexit non tam Christus in carne quà m caro Christi Without Christ died no death of the soule by the iudgement of all the Fathers question if thou heare that CHRIST DIED that he was buried according to the Scriptures NONE OTHERWISE THEN in the flesh thou wilt grant that he was likewise raised in the flesh For that very thing which fell by death which lay in the graue that surely rose not so much Christ in the flesh as the flesh of Christ. And in the same place Dominus i Ibidem quanquam animam circumferret trepidantem vsque ad mortem sed non cadentem PER MORTEM The Lord though he caried about a soule fearing vnto death YET NOT FALLING BY DEATH Origen k Origen li. 5. in ca. 5. epist. ad Romanos By sinne saith Paul came death that death no doubt whereof the Prophet saith the soule that sinneth the same shall die whereof a man may iustly call this bodily death a shadow For whither soeuer that pierceth of force this followeth as a shadow doth the bodie If a man obiect that our Sauiour did no sinne neither was there in him the death of the soule by reason of any sinne and yet he sustained a corporall death we will answere him that where Christ owed this death to none nor was obnoxious to it yet for â—…ur saluation of his owne accord and by no necessitie he vndertooke this so aboue called shadow of death l Ibidem This common death then he did vndergoe but that death of sinne which raigned ouer all others he did not admit Athanasius m Athanas. contra Arianos oratione 3. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 What els was that which was crucified but the bodie of Christ And againe Christs n Ibidem resurrection could not be without death 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 And how could
crucifixi corporis iniuria intelligitur Sola in Christo materia carnis mortis fragilitate defuncta spem resurrectionis expectabat The prophesie in the Psalmes auouch the passion of Christ in the flesh only when it saith they pearced my hands and my feet and numbred all my bones Where not the iniurie of his deity but of his body is percâ—…aued in Christ the matter only of his flesh yeelding to the srailty of death expected resurrection Petrus quoque Apostolus Christi supplicium sic praedicat in solo corpore consummatum a Ibidem qui peccata inquit nostra pertulit in corpore suo super lignum Peter also the Apostle preacheth the passion of Christ to haue beene performed ONLY IN HIS BODY when he saith Christ bare our sinnes in his body on the tree And againe b Ibidem Sola caro crucis exitium sensit sola caro lanceam pertulit sola sanguine aqua manauit Ipsa sola mortua ipsa sola in sepulchro posita ipsa sola tertio dic resuscitata Only the flesh of Christ tasted the sharpnesse of the Crosse only the flesh endured the speare only the flesh yeelded forth bloud and water That only died that only lay in the graue that ONLY ROSE AGAINE And assuring themselues this to be the Christian faith confirmed in the old and new testament they say c Ibidem Ecce pronunciata est passio corporis Christi ex lege Prophetis Cuius quidem fidei verit as tam est efficax vt eam nec tyranni sua potuerint crudelitate confundere nec haereticorum subdola circumâ—… to pessumdare nâ—…c hypocritarum diminuere fallax simulatio The passion of the body of Christ is prooued by the law and the Prophets The trueth of which faith is so forcible that neither tyrants with their â—…rucltie could confound it nor Heretickes with their crafty deuices euert it nor Hypocrites with their false dissembling diminish it Theodoret. d Theodoret. Dialogo 3. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 how could the soule of our Sauiour hauing an immortall nature and not touched with the least spot of sinne be possibly taken with the hooke of death Cyril e Cyril de recta fide ad Râ—… li. 1. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 If we conceaue Christ to be God incarnate and suffering in his owne flesh the death of his flesh alone sufficeth for the redemption of the world Fulgentius f Fulgentius aâ—… I 〈◊〉 li. 3. ca. 7. Quis ignoret Christum nec in diuinitate sed IN SOLO CORPORE MORTVVM sepultum Who can be ignorant that Christ was dead and buried not in his deity but in his body only Cum sola caro moreretur resuscitaretur in Christo filius Dei dicitur mortuus Idem Christus secundum solam carnem mortuus secundum solam animam ad insernum descendit When the flesh onely died and was raised againe in Christ the Sonne of God is said to haue died The same Christ died in his flesh onely and descended into hell in his soule ONELY g Idem ca. 5. Moriente carne non solum Dietas sed nec anima Christi potest ostendi commortua The flesh dying not onely the dietie but the soule of Christ cannot be shewed to haue bene also dead The same Father and fifteene other Bishops of Africa make this confession of their faith h Mors silij Dei quam sola carne suscepit vtramque in nobis mortem animae scilicet carnisque destruxit The death of the Sonne of God which he SVFFERED IN HIS FLESH ALONE destroyed in vs both our deaths to wit the death of soule body This confession Gregory followed when he said i Gregorius in 〈◊〉 li. 4. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Solumpro nobis mortem carnis suscepit Christ vndertooke for vs the only death of the flesh And againe comming to vs who were iâ—… the death of spirit and flesh Christ brought his owne death to vs and loosed both our deaths His sâ—…le death 〈◊〉 applied to our double death and dying vanquished our double death Vigius k Secundum proprietatem naturae sola carâ—… mortâ—…m sâ—…t sola caro sepulturae 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Ergo 〈◊〉 dominum iacuisse in sepulchro sâ—…d in sola carne Dominum d 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 According to the propriety of nature onely the 〈◊〉 of Christ 〈◊〉 death onely the â—…sh was buried Therefore we say the Lord lay in the grâ—…ue but in flesh alone and descended into hell but in SOVIE Aâ—…ONE Bede treadeth iust in their steps l 〈◊〉 in ca. 10. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Hoc 〈◊〉 quod mâ—…atur Nam verbum 〈◊〉 non potuit 〈◊〉 anima illa mortua â—…it Caro tantum mortua est resurrexit tertia 〈◊〉 That was raised which died the Godhead could not die his soule was not dead onely his flesh died and râ—…se againe And againe m Idem Homiâ—… 4. in 〈◊〉 Veniens adnos qui in morte carnis spiritus eramus vnam suam id est carnis mortem pertulit duas nostras absoluit simplam suam nostrae duplâ—… coâ—…t dulpam nostram subegit Christ comming to vs that were in death of bodie and spirit suffered onely one death that is the death of the flesh and freed both our deaths â—…ee applied his one death to our double death and vanquished them both Albinus n Quid significat morte morieris duplicem mortem â—…ominis designat animae videlicit corpâ—…s Animae mors est dum proptâ—…r peccatum quodlibâ—…t animam dâ—…t Deus Corporis â—…rs est dum propter necessitatem quamlibet corpus descritur â—…b anima Et hanc duplâ—…m Christus sua 〈◊〉 destruxit Nam 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 est ad tempus anima vero nunquam qui nunquam peccauit What is ment â—…y this tâ—…ou shalâ—…â—…e the death it noteth a double death in man to wit of soule and body The death of the soule is when for any sinne God forsaketh it the death of the 〈◊〉 is wâ—…en for any necessitie the bodie is depriued of the soule This double death of 〈◊〉 Christ destroyed with his single death for hee died onely in 〈◊〉 for a time but in soule he neuer died who neuer sinned This continued without change to Bernards time who saith of Christ o Ex duaâ—…s 〈◊〉 nostris cum aâ—…ra nobis in cuâ—… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 reputaretur susâ—…ns pâ—…am nesâ—…ns culpam dum sponâ—…é TANTVMâ—…N CORPORE MORITVR vitam nobis 〈◊〉 promâ—…ur Of our two deaths where one was the desert of 〈◊〉 the other the dâ—…e of punishment Christs taking our punishment but 〈◊〉 from sinne 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 dieth willingly and ONELY IN 〈◊〉 hee meâ—…h â—…or vs life and 〈◊〉 I haue bene the longer good Reader in alleaging these fathers to assure thee that I deliuer no doctrine touching our redemption but â—…uch as the whole Church of Christ in the best purest times professed to
be principles of the Christian faith and that in so euident and pertinent manner that I know not how to lighten or strengthen their wordes Thou hearest them with one voice affirme that Christ died not A DOVBLE but A SINGLE death for vs which they likewise aâ—…ch was the death of HIS BODY ONLY AND NOT OF HIS SOVLâ—… and THâ—… DEATH OF THE SOVLE HE DIED NOT. The death of the soule they truely deriue from the Scriptures to be either sinne or damnation sinne by which men are depriued of all grace and so of the life of God and damnation which is a perpetuall reiection from all blisse addicting the wicked to eternall and intollerable miserie in the torments of hell fire Which of these things will this dreamer denie will he say that Christ died moe deaths then ONE and as well the death of the soule as of the bodie So he must say if he will vphold his new redemption by the death of Christs soule and so he doth say but whether there in he crosse not the full consent of Christs whole Church I leaue it to thy censure Will he shift as hee hath hitherto done with the name of flesh that it compriseth as well the soule as the bodie and therefore by the death of Christs flesh onely the Fathers doe not exclude the death of Christs soule but the death of his Godhead they prooue indeed against the Arians that the Sonne of God could not die in his Diuine nature but onely in his humane flesh And this as we now see is one of their maine reasons The soule of Christ died not nor coulde die much lesse then his Godhead And therefore the most of them do expresse that argument vtterly denying that Christes soule died any kinde of death but onely his flesh Besides a number of them not onely expresâ—…e by circumstances and consequents of burying and rising againe what the rest meane by the flesh but they vse the word 〈◊〉 which can not be taken for the soule and with like zeale and truth auouch that Christ died in his body onely So that these three stand for cleere and sounde conclusions with all these Fathers First that Christ died BVT ONE KIND of death Secondly that HE DIED ONELY IN HIS FLESH OR BODY and thirdly that THE DEATH OF THE SOVLE HE NEITHER DID NOR COVLD DIE. Will hee shuâ—…e with the name of death and say they ment not his kind of death that will nothing relieue him For first if Christ died but one kinde of death and of his bodily death no Christian may so much as doubt then by maine consequent out of their wordes Christ died no death of the soule let him take it how and which way he will Againe if Christ DIED ONELY IN BODY as they likewise witnesse then apparantly he died not any death of the soule neither in your sense Sir Defenser nor in theirs Lastly what death of the soule can you shew mentioned in the Scriptures without the compasse of their diuision that is which is not sinne or damnation Of sinne the Apostles wordes are plaine p Rom. 7. Sinne seduced me and slew 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and I died as likewise that q â—…hes 2. q Coloss. 2. we were dead in our sinnes This death men liâ—…ing may die as the Apostle saith of wanton widowes r â—… Tim. 5. lyuing she is dead and of all the Gentils s â—…phes 4. walking in the vanitie of their minde they are strangers from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them because of the hardnesse of their heart who being past feeling haue giuen themselues to worke all vncleanesse euen with greedinesse Where the hardnesse of mans heart voide of all feeling or 〈◊〉 of God and so running on in all wickednesse is by the Apostle defined to be the death of the soule which is a depriuing or â—…anging from the life of God The second death as I before haue shewed is the laâ—…e burning with fire and brimstone into which the diuell and all the wicked shall be cast Shew now a third death of the soule not in your extraordinarie fansie and folly but in the word of God to which these Fathers proportion their speeches If there be no such thing there then directly earnestly and truely do these Fathers auouch that Christ dâ—…ed no death of the soule Of Fathers it may be your Mastership maketh small account and will not sticke in the high perswasion of your great and deepe learning to reiect them all as ignorant of the principles of their faith and so fitter to be taught then to teach but that proud peeuishnesse to giue it no worse words I leaue to the sober to censure for an vpshot the Reader shall haue a cleere conclusion out of the sacred Scriptures that the soule of Christ neuer was nor could be dead and consequently that these learned and ancient Fathers deliuered sound and true doctrine touching the soule of Christ and The soule of Christ liuing by graâ—…e could no way be dead fully build their asâ—…ertions on the maine foundations of the Diuine Scriptures It is euident by nature sense and trueth that priuatiues can not concurre at one and the same time in one and the same subiect For the one expelleth the other and so can not be found both together Yea since the one of them cleerely remooueth the other they can no more stand together then may contradiction For that which liueth is not dead and that which is dead liueth not I meane alwaies the same time and the same part But the soule of Christ by the manifest and manifold testimonies of holie Scripture did alwaies liue in the fulnesse of faith of hope of loue of grace of trueth of spirit It is euident therefore that the soule of Christ neuer died nor could die Which of these assertions will you encounter that Christes soule may be aliue and dead both at one time You would seeme the leafe before to shunne the shame of t Defenc. pag. 140. li. 25. this absurditie that Christes soule died and died not will you now come plainely and grossely to it by auouching that Christes soule was at one and the same time LIVING AND NOT LIVING DEAD AND NOT DEAD that is both ALIVE AND DEAD If you doe there is no man in England that hath either eies or eares to see or heare but he will reprooue you for a manifest beliar of his sense as well as of Christs soule Will you smoothly set yourselfe to one side and say that Christs soule was not aliue so many parts of life as I haue named in the soule of Christ so many pregnant proofes are there in holy Scripture that Christes soule was not onely liuing but as full of life as of grace during the whole time of his passion Neither is there any one of those things named by mee concerning the life of Christes soule which you can take from Christ without apparent blasphemie For if
you depriue him of saith hope loue grace truâ—…th or the spirit of God you leaue him in Infidelitie desperation hatred of God reprobation falshood and make him no way the Sonne of God since they onely are the sonnes of God who are ledde by the spirit of God Now what shamefull and impious enormities these are you can easily coniecture So that of force you must confesse the soule of Christ to be liuing and endued with all these parts and powers of the life of God or else you must professe your selfe to be nothing lesse then a Christian And euen the praiers which he made and obedience which he shewed in all and euerie his conflicts and agonies prooue his soule not onely to liue but to rest assuredly on the fauour and loue of God towards him which are no fruites nor effects of the death of the soule but exactly the conrrarie Yet paine you thinke Christ might all this while suffer and that most extreame which you call the death of the soule Your calling sweete sower good badde light darknesse and life death changeth not the natures of the things but conuincâ—…th your owne ignorant and wilfull headinesse You must call things in Christ not as pleaseth your fansie but as the word of God directeth and by witnesse thereof shall you neuer be able to proue that Christs soule was dead since thence so many sure demonstrations may be brought that Christs soule was alwaies u Iohn 1. full of truth and grace and of the Holy Ghost not only in a greater abundance then either man or Angel hath or can haue but aboue all measure And in this state if we should imagine with you that x Iohn 3. Christs soule suffred the greatest sense of torments that any creature can feele yet this doth not inferre Christs soule to be dead but expressely the contrary since all paine The soule of Christ in her greatest paines did most shew the life of patience and obedience to God yea if it were possible paine equall with hell it selfe suffered in this life with obedience and patience such as all Christs sufferings were except you will wrappe him as well within sinning as suffering doth conuince the soule of Christ to be rather liuing then dead as the martyrs of Christ had their soules then most liuing in their greatest torments when force of intolerable paine excluded their spirits from their bodies And therefore I doe not a little maruaile how lightly you leape to determine and defend the death of Christs soule since all paine endured with patience obedience and confidence prooueth the soule to be most aliue to God-ward euen when she departeth as not able to sustaine the fury and violence of the torment encreasing And heerein appeareth your notable error in calling that the death of Christs soule which the Scripture calleth his obedience and victory For he was y Phil. 2. obedient to the death euen the death of the Crosse that is in all his sufferings vnto the end he z Reuel 3. ouercame and sate with his Father in his Throne as we ouercomming shall sit with Christ in his Throne And other conquest in our conflicts there is none then constant resisting all temptations and patient enduring all afflictions which Christ did before vs and we must after him by his example both which are most â—…uident â—…ignes effects of the life and strength of the soule To beleeue and loue God to hope in him and call on him in proâ—…perity declareth the soule to be 〈◊〉 but in adâ—…ty and extreaâ—…ty to continue and 〈◊〉 those dueties of piety are as forâ—…ible powers and parts of the life of the soule as the Scripture maketh any Wherefore it is a grosse ouersight in you to call that the death of the soule which the Scripture maketh the life of the soule and to pronounce Christs soule to be dead in those respects which the word of God teacheth to be the chiefest proofes of the life of the soule If you slide from the sense of absolute and inherent paine to the feare and horror of dereliction and desperation in the soule of Christ for you role at your pleasure from one to another and are constant in nothing but in generall and doubtfull speaches as were the first authors of this conceit and make that the death of the soule No temptations without desparation kill the soule then know you that these temptations kill not the soule till they plant infidelity and desperation in the soule of man from which I trust you will cleere Christ or els I mâ—…st aske what difference betwixt you and a Turke For the Iewes were not so wicked as to take from Christ his trust in God they said of him as he hung on the Crosse a Matth. 27. he trusteth in God but they thought God had failed him in suffering him to come to that cursed kind of death wherein they knew not the wisedome or power of God But no Christian can be excused by ignorance if he diminish the faith hope loue patience or obedience of Christ in all his sufferings and those not decreasing it was no way possible for the soule of Christ to be but liuing yea full of life grace how great soeuer the paines were which he endured or the temptations which he resisted So that both fathers and Scriptures persue you narrowly to this straight that Christes soule must either alwaies liue and so your doctrine is vtterly false which auoucheth the death of Christs soule to be the ground of our redemption or if it died it must die with sinne since without sinne there is no death of the soule and all paines and torments that are possible in this life if they be suffered with obedience and patience doe rather demonstrate the life then confirme the death of the soule euen in the person of Christ Iesus b Defenc. pag. 142. li. 24. But our authorised Catechisme published by master Nowel and the homily sheweth that Christ suffered farre more sharpely then meere bodily death euen the infinite paines of Gods wrath in his soule which I pointed you vnto before but you fairely leape it ouer You belie the one and confute the other and then charge me with leaping them both ouer The homily which indeed is authorised hath no such thing as you report the Catechisme which is only approoued to be taught to children in schooles hath more then you any way like or receaue and yet not that which you now defend The sorow and paine which the Catechisme supposeth in Christs soule was the feare and horror of eternall death that you not only refuse in plaine words but refell with many reasons as you thinke The like you doe for Christs descent to hell which the Catechisme confesseth to be not the presence of Christs soule in Paradise but an effectuall force thereof in hell whereby the soules of the faithlesse saw their damnation to be iust and the Diuel himselfe perceaued all
his power to be destroyed and ouerthrowen If you regard the Catechisme so highly as you pretend why slippe you from it in these or other points at your pleasure why obtrude you that to others as authorised which your selfe doe not admit indeed some men haue of late yeeres inclined to vehement and violent temptations offered to the soule of Christ in his sufferings and some to feares and horrors euen of eternall death as master Caluin and the Catechisme which you cite but if you may be suffered to shrincke from them at your liking neuer blame me if I doe not preferre them before all these fathers Howbeit to speake vprightly without wronging them I doe not see that either the Catechisme or master Caluin doe expressely defend the death of Christs soule or the second death but only the feare and horror not of a temporall hell as you haue distilled their infusion but of eternall death which you with might and maine reiect And surely if they did contradict the confession of all these fathers I would adhere to the primatiue church of Christ in matters of faith rather then to the deuices of late writers dissenting from themselues and others But touching the death of Christes soule I see no cause to depart from them since they define no such thing and therefore they aâ—…e idlely alleadged by you euen as the rest are by you proudly neglected And till you leaue this contemning of ancient Fathers and straining of later writers beyond their meaning I for my part thinke you worthie of no charge in the church of Christ neither of that you had wherein you sowed as much cockle as corne nor of that you may haue except you change your mind and learne to teach nothing to the people of God but what is warranted by the word of God c Defenc. pag. 142. li. 36. ` You say I should haue donne well to haue laied downe for a shew which is written in Easy he laied downe his soule vnto death Verily if I had it would haue made some shew I said indeed the Prophet Esay would make a better shew for the death of Christ soule then the Poet Terence whom only you produced for proofe thereof but such was then and still is your presumption that on your bare word you will pronounce what best pleaseth your fansie Howbeit the words of Esay are but a shew for the death of Christes soule since they exactly declare his bodily death to be the redemption of mankind For when the soule in the Hebrew tongue and in the old Testament is said to die either by the soule are ment the vegetatiue and sensitiue powers of the soule whereby the spirit of man is vnited to his body and which are quenched by death or by death is ment the distraction of the soule from the body which violence of death is common as well to the soule thrust from her body as to the body left without a soule That signification of the word soule the Apostle sheweth when he praieth the d 1. Thess. 5. whole spirit and soule and body of the faithfull may be kept blaâ—…lesse vnto the comming of Christ and saith e Hebr. 4. The word of God pearceth to the diuiding a sunder of the soule and the spirit And this sense of the word death the Scriptures expresse when they often mention that the soules of the godly doe or would die When Iosephs brethren would haue slaine him Ruben said vnto them f Genes 37. vers 21. Let vs not strike him in the soule that is let vs not kill him So Balaam seeing the glory of Gods people said g Numb 23. vers 10. Let my soule die the death of the Righteous and mine end be like his that is Let my soule depart in peace as the Righteous doe And least any thinke that Balaam spake he knew not what Sampson willing to end his life with reuenge of the dishonour done to God by the Philistines insulting at his bonds and blindnesse when he pulled the house on his and their heades said h Iudâ—… 16. vers 30. Let my soule die with the Philistines So Elias wearie of his life i 1. Kings 19. vers 4. desired for his soule to die saying Lord take my soule he ment from his body So Moses comparing a rape with murder saith k Deuter. 22. vers 26. This is as if a man should fall vpon his fellow and kill him in the soule And so Ieremie to Ierusalem l Iere 2. v 34. In thy bosome is found the bloud of the soules of the poore innocents Infinite places are there in the Scripture to like effect All which declare that the soule of man feeleth the death of the body by her departing from it and that the Prophet Esay when he said of Christ He m Esa. 53. v. 12 powred forth his soule vnto death Had no meaning but to describe Christs bodily death in which the soule is powred out from the body that is wholy separated from it The very phrase of powring forth the soule which must needes be from the body sheweth that the Prophet directly described the death of Christs body by which the soule is emptied and powred out of the body as out of a vessel replenished with it So that heere you haue as much hold for the death of Christs soule as you had before which is vtterly none n Defenc. pag. 143. li. 1. You earnestly affirme that this word signifieth soule or spirit in a proper sense Also how resolute are you forbidding to diuert from the natiue and proper significations of words but when the letter impugneth the grounds of Christian faith and charity In the Page 167. which you quote I neither spake of this place nor of this word and therefore your considering cappe was not on when you so much mistooke my words I know Nephesh is applied as well to beasts who haue no soules as to bodies once liuing but then dead And therefore of Nephesh I affirmed no such thing of S. Lukes words repeating Dauids and exactly distinguishing the soule from the flesh in Christ I did indeed auouch and still doe that we must not rashly depart from the proper significations of that and other words in the Scripture except the letter breed some inconuenience to faith or good-maners But what is that to this place where though the word Nephesh be granted properly to import the soule yet the rest sheweth it to be referred to the death of the body because the soule is powred forth of the body by the death thereof where before it was conteined and inclosed o Defenc. pag. 143. li. 15. The rather if we note that which followeth he was counted with sinners that is he was punished by God as sinners are punished and not by the Iewes only counted among Theeues You take vpon you to controle both the Prophet and the Euangelist who refer this misiudging of Chriâ—…t to men not to
And how come you now to put so great a difference betwixt alwaies and vsually where before you did interpret alwaies to be ordinarily but now you finde flesh and spirit together applied to men once to signifie meerely the body and soule Meane you in all the Scriptures or in the new Testament onely You call it the r Treatis pag. 136. li. 8. perpetuall vse of the Scripture and so must include the old Testament as well as the new except you will barre the old from being part of the Scripture What then shall become of that which Moses so often ascribeth to God when he saith s Numb 16. 27. O God the God of the spirits of all flesh Praieth he for the spirits of men or of beastes If you will straighten your wordes to the new Testament how insolent a bragger and negligent a Reader of the Scripture are you that first said it was alwaies so and now correcting your error say you finde it once otherwise where a childe might easily haue found it oftner The Apostle decreed the Offender at Corinth to be t 1. Coâ—… 5. deliuered vnto Sathan for the destruction of the flesh that the spirit might be saued in the day of the Lord. And to the Hebrewes he telleth vs u Heb. 12. We had fathers of our flesh which corrected vs and we reuerenced them Should we not much more be subiect to the Father of spirits In both which places the spirit of force must signifie the substance of mans soule x Defenc. pag. 144. li. 19. Finally to make an end with your Fathers and Councels I haue shewed before that your large claime prooueth a very short gaine For in substance and full effect they are euidently and generally against you and for vs. If thou thinke Christian Reader that I charge this man vniustly with impudent facing behold but these wordes and say what thou thinkest of them He that hath not brought nor can not bring one euident or pertinent word out of any Father for the death of Christes soule he yelleth out with open throatâ—… that generally and euidently they are in substance and full effect for him and against me It is no time heere to repeat what is past by that which is said thou maist easily iudge on which side the Fathers stand with full confession of the trueth and their faith Bragging is boies play where all performance wanteth y li. 24. As for their denying that Christ died in his soule I haue answered before With senselesse and shamefull shifts that Christes soule died not as the body did that he died not the ordinary death of the soule expressed in the Scriptures but an extraordinary newly deuised by your selfe and more then this in summe and substance you haue not said one word z li. 25. Further where you bring them in many places saying by his bloud onely he redeemed vs and he suffered onely in his body they are abused by you woonderfully not in their wordes but in their meaning You would faine change dying into suffering and haue your Reader imagine that I say Christes soule suffered nothing at all but these are now so stale tricks of yours that euery man reiecteth them as fast as I doe From death you 〈◊〉 to sufferings from sufferings to proper sufferings of the soule to which you à dde as a supplussage the paines of the damned from the immediate hand of God And so where you finde any Father affirme that Christ GRIEVED FEARED OR SORROWED in soule which are the naturall passions of mans soule common to good and badde you looke no farder but presently pronounce that Father maketh euidently with you But awake out of this ignorant lâ—…thargie there be many steps betweene their words and your wiles which you will neuer tread ouer with any the least shew of truth or proofe If I haue not abused their wordes in alleaging them as you confesse and I assure my selfe I haue not but where the Printer perchance hath made some fault which no man can auoid as pag. 81. August de Trinitate li. 11. the Printer hath set for lib. 13. and some such then haue I lesse abused their meaning whereof I make euerie Reader iudge and so referre my collecting to their censuring which is no abuse a Defenc. pag. 144. li. 28. They striuing against Arians and such other heretikes who would haue Christs Deitie to take part in his sufferings for our redemption the godly auncient writers doe heereupon say he suffered and satisfied for vs onely in his body not excluding the proper and immediate sufferings of his spirit Let the Authors themselues be viewed if you thinke 1 affirme of them falsely Against whom they write is not so much as what they write and how they confute those heretikes whom they vndertake The positions which they establish out of the Scriptures against such heresies are most to be regarded by their proofes you shall see their purpose To confound those misbeleeuers that would haue the Godhead of Christ suffer in his flesh or together with his flesh the Fathers do soundly oppose first that the Godhead is inuiolable impassible immutable and such like properties of the Godhead Secondly that the soule of Christ was subiect to no kind of death neither of sinne nor damnation which are not the death of the body as you wilfully but most absurdly would wrest it and therefore the Godhead was much more free not onely from this death of the bodie but from all touch of any kinde of death Thirdly to shew what it was in Christ that died since neither the Deitie nor the soule of Christ could die any kinde of death they prooue that that which died was a mortall bodie buried and raised againe the third day according to the Scriptures Which accidents and attributes belonging onely to the body of Christ It is most certaine by the sacred Scriptures that onely the body of Christ was yeelded to death for the redemption of our sinnes These be the chiefest of their reasons though they haue many others tending to the same issue which whether they truely and effectually exclude the death of Christes soule from the worke of our redemption I leaue it to their iudgement that shall peruse the former places by me cited or view the Fathers themselues in their full discourses And yet a number of these Fathers in the places by me alleaged doe not refute the Arians but handle professedly other points of our redemption saluation as Tertullian in his booke of the Resurrection of the flesh Chrysostom in his Homily of drunkennesse of the resurrection Augustine in his 99. Epistle those Chapters of his fourth Booke de Trinitate which I produced Gregorie vpon Iob Bernard in his Sermons to the Souldiers of the Temple Bede in his Homilies and Albinus in his questions these I say doe not there take in hand to refell the Arians but to deliuer what kinde of death Christ died to free
worth but if they be diuers proofes of one thing though in place one before another they all haue one intention and must haue one construction Your maner is to make what you list of euery mans wordes my course is to shew by the wordes precedent and consequent that I take the right sense of each Writer not vpon the aduantage of one word wrested from the rest but out of the whole context to manifest the true meaning of ech mans speach If therfore Tertullian had said Haec mors est carnis animae this is the death of soule and flesh as he saith Haec vox est carnis animae this is the voice of soule and flesh It had been worth the obiecting and yet I must tell you that Tertullian being of opinion that the soule was traduced with the seed of the body when he diuideth a man into flesh soule and spirit as heere he doth by naming all three parts it may well be doubted whether he spake of the substance of the soule which is a spirit or of the powers of sense and speach which faile by death and are often comprised in the name of the soule But it is cleare by Tertullians owne words that Christs humane spirit was not dead or forsaken since he there vrgeth it was committed to the fathers hands and consequently was not forsaken nor left to death as the rest of Christs manhood was k Tertullianus aduersus Praxeam Caeterum non reliquit pater filium in cuius manibus filius spiritum suum posuit Denique posuit statim obijt spiritu enim manente in carne caro omnio mori non potest But the Father did not forsake the Sonne into whose hands the sonne laid downe his spirit For he laid it downe and presently died the spirit remaining in the flesh the flesh could not die at all The Father then left the flesh of his sonne vnto death but he tooke Christs spirit into his hands and so for the sonne to be forsaken was nothing els but for his flesh to be left to death This is Tertullians owne exposition of himselfe howsoeuer you would dally and deceaue both your selfe and your Reader by generall or speciall before or after l Defenc. pag. 145. li. 24. Cyrill also euen in that booke which you cite for you sheweth that he excludeth but Christs deity though he mention only his suffering in flesh Christ then is God impassible as God passible according to the flâ—…sh You put a whole But to Cyrills sense more then you find in his text and yet the words passible and impassible are not the things we striue for Impassible is that which by no possibility can admit any mutation or alteration by force or affection which is proper to God alone So no part of Christs manhood was impassible But though his soule were passible with diuers affections and impressions how will it follow from these or any other words in Cyrill that Christs soule died Cyrill hath in many words shewed which I before haue cited that Christs soule was subiect to all humane and naturall passions or affections but without sinne or corruption in this sense what doth it helpe you to haue the soule of Christ passible by nature and not impassible as his godhead is but you loue to loyter that thus still repeat one lesson not only besides your booke but against your booke m Defenc. pag 145. li 30. In a word so doe all the rest as before is partly noted A totall summe is as soone made of lies as of trueths All the answer you giue is they spake against other Hereticks not against you but this is the danger that if such points as they prooue against other Hereticks make against you you had need beware of the coniunction and communion between you and other Hereticks Against n li. 31. Nestorius they affirme you say the vnion of Christs natures Why skippe you o Sermo fo 331. Athanasius Epiphanius Ambrose and Augustine that neuer heard of Nestorius who teach directly that Christs suffering of death mentioned in the Scriptures was the suffering thereof in his mortall bodie which died and rose againe and by the death of this body was the ransome for vs all payd p Ambros. in Lucâ—… ca 4. de ductu Christi in desertum What pray saith Ambrose could there be for death and Satan but his bodie You say his soule q August in Psal. 148. Accepit ex te vnde moreretur pro te Non posset mori nisi card Non posset mori nisi mortale corpus Christ tooke of thee sayth Austen wherein he might die for thee There could die in him nothing but flesh There could die in him nothing but his mortall bodie These and many such places yon cleanly skippe and tell in a word they are all for you r li. 32. They preserue the properties of ech They therefore holde not his only bodily sufferings Nay they therefore holde not the death of Christes soule since that is no necessarie propertie of mans nature assumed by Christ. Their reasons likewise and expositions of the Scriptures which you peruert exclude your conceit of the death of Christes soule most apparently 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The Deitie could not suffer death say they because it was no bodie Then onely the bodie could suffer that death which Christ died And since the soule is no bodie that also must be free froÌ„ the death which Christ died These positions likewise of the Christian faith that the Son of God was wounded crucified dead and rose againe for vs all they expound to be expresly meant of his bodie wounded crucified dead and raised the third day so that where you would cauill that the name of Christes flesh importeth his soule as well as his body they directly refell you and pronounce all these things to be verified of his body and not of his soule or deity since nothing in him could suffer death but his body And the Scriptures that Christ by the grace of God tasted death for all and by death conquered him that had power ouer death and such like they exactly referre to the death of his body which argueth all your doctrine of the death of Christs soule to be meerely superfluous if not wholy pernicious f Defenc. pag. 145. li. 33. Is this then your great boast of all the Fathers and councels nay are they well vsed at your hands to be thus drawen clean from their purpose to an opinion which they neuer thought of is this good dealing towards Gods people to tell them that the Fathers generally teach the only bodily sufferings of Christ and denie our assertion of his soules peculiar suffering which they iustifie and conâ—…irme indeed Intrueth good Reader if I were not too well acquainted with this mans vnshamefastnesse I should thinke I rather heard a plaier on the stage then a Pen-man in the Church Is it possible for a
man of any learning or vnderstanding thus in print and open view of the whole Realme to rage revell rush on with lying craking and facing when he speaketh not one true word for first Sir flincher is this the point heere or any where proposed by me whether Christs sufferings were only bodily did I promise or produce any Fathers to that end is it not the death of the soule and the paines of the damned which I impugned in Christs sufferings haue I not most truely performed which I euer professed that the whole Church of Christ for so many hundred yeeres neuer thought neuer heard of the death of Christs soule in the worke of our redemption but rested their faith on the death of Christs body as a most sufficient price both for the soules and bodies of the faithfull What cunning then is this first to shift your hands of that you can no way prooue though you still doe and must professe it and then to clamour at me for drawing the Fathers cleane from their intent and meaning is this the way to credit your new Creed by such deuices and stratagemes to intertaine the people of God least they should see how farre you be slid from the ancient primatiue Church of Christ take a while but the thought of a sober man and this pangue will soone be ouerpast Did you not vndertake to prooue the death of Christs soule by Scriptures which indeed I first and most required and haue you so donne looke backe to your miserable mistakings and palpable peruertings of the words of the holy Ghost and tell vs what one syllable you haue brought sounding that way are your secrets such that they be no where reuealed in the word of God must all faith come from thence and is your faith exempted that it shall haue no foundation there are men and Angels accursed that preach any other Gospell then was deliuered and written by Christs Apostles and shall you be excused for deuising a new kind of redemption by the death of Christs soule no where witnessed in the Scriptures you see how easie it were to be eloquent against you in a iust and true cause but words must not winne the field What I impugned my sermons will shew what I haue prooued I will not proclaime If I haue failed in that I endeuoured the labour is mine the liberty is the Readers to iudge Let the indifferent read it they shall find somewhat to direct them let the contentious skanne it they shall see somewhat to harle their hast and perhaps to restraine their stifnesse What euer it be I leaue it to others since the discourser hasteth towards an end and so doe I. s Defenc. pag. 146. li. 2 This is the profit that comes by ordinarie flaunting with Fathers which many do frequent in these dayes Thinke they if the Scriptures alone suffice not for things in religion that the Fathers will suffice or if the Scriptures may be wrested by subtle heads that yet the Fathers can not Is it not enough for your selfe to be a despiser of all antiquitie and sobrietie but you must insult at them that beare more regard to either than you do If to flaunt with Fathers be so great a fault which yet respecteth their iudgements that haue beene liked and allowed from age to age in the Church of Christ what is it to fliske with pride and follie grounded on nothing but on selfe-loue and singularitie It were to be wished that euen some of the best writers of our age as they thinke themselues had had more respect to the auncient Fathers then they shew we should haue wanted a number of nouelties in the Church of God which now wee are troubled withall as well in Doctrine as in discipline This course of concurring with the lights of Gods Church before our time in matters of faith though you mislike other manner of men then you are or euer will be haue allowed and followed as u August contra Iâ—…num li. 1. Augustine x Theodor. diol 2. 3. Theodorete y Leo epist. 97. 〈◊〉 Leonem Leo z Cassi. de incarnat Domini li. 7 ca. 5. Cassianus a Gelas. de duabus in Christo natâ—…ris Gelasius b Vigilius li. 5. cap. 6. Vigilius and the two c Hispalensi concilium 2. ca. 13. councels of Hispalis and others not doubting the sufficiencie of the Scriptures but shewing the correspondencie of beleeuing and interpreting the Scriptures in all ages to haue bene the same which they imbraced and vrged And in all euennesse of reason were it better to feede the people with our priuate conceits pretended out of Scripture or to let such as be of iudgement vnderstand that we frame no faith but such as in the best times hath bene collected and receiued from the grounds of holy Scripture by the wisest and greatest men in the Church of God your only example turning and winding the words of the holy Ghost to your owne conceits will shew how needfull it is not to permit euery prater to raigne ouer the Scriptures with figures and phrases at his pleasure and thence to fetch what faith he list If you so much reuerence the Scriptures as you report which were to be wished you would why deuise you doctrine not expressed in the Scriptures Why teach you that touching mans redemption which is no where written in the word of God Indeed the Scriptures are plaine in this point of all others what death Christ died for vs if you did not peruert them against the histories of the Euangelists and testimonies of the Apostles Omit the description of his death so farely witnessed by the foure Euangelists what exacter words can we haue then the Apostles that Christ d Coloss. 1. pacisied things in earth and things in heauen by the bloud of his crosse and reconciled vs which were strangers and enemies in the bodie of his flesh through death Beleeue what you reade and what you reade not in the word of God beleeue not and this matter is ended but by Synecdoches without cause you put to the Scriptures not what you read in them but what you like best and by Metaphores and Metonimies you will take bodie for substance and flesh for soule And so where the Apostle auoucheth that we were reconciled to God through death in the bodie of Christs flesh you tell vs we could not be redeemed without the death of Christs soule and the essence of the paines of the damned suffered by suddaine touches from the immediate hand of God after an extraordinarie manner If you teach no doctrine but deliuered in the Scriptures aband on these deuices not expressed in the Scriptures If you content your selfe with the all sufficient word of God in matters of faith you must relinquish the death of Christs soule and paines of the damned as no part of our redemption since there is no such thing contained in the word of God To me and
prepared which were requisite to offer the sacrifice for our sinnes behold the Priest with his sacrifice Christ with his body the body I say of him that was God who through voluntary obedience to his Father and most ardent loue to vs offered himselfe to God for a most sweet smell And where did he offer himselfe on the altar of the Crosse he suffered and died and that on the crosse k Ibidem Patitur in anima summam tristitiam timorem ignominiam in corpore summos dolores in singulis membris atrocissima flagella l Ibidem In ligno moritur vt mors per lignum ingressa in mundum per lignum tolleretur è mundo He suffered in soule most exceeding heauinesse feare and shame In his bodie most bitter paines in euerie member most grieuous scourges On the tree he died that as death came into the world by a tree so it might be taken out of the world by a tree m Idem in ca. 1. ad Ephes. v. 7. To that point how we are redeemed the Apostle saith by his bloud that is by 〈◊〉 sacrifice which consisted of the offering of his body deliuered to death and his bloud shed 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 fuit proprius modus this was the proper manner or onely way how we must be redeemed from the captiuitie of sinne and death This n Ibidem sacrifice which is often signified by the name of Christeâ—… bloud alone is that price of which the Prophets before and after the Apostles say we were redeemed by it For o Ibidem we are redeemed and haue remission of sinnes in Christ by his onely bloud p Idem de tribus 〈◊〉 1. cap. 5. test 9. This is euen he who by the onely sacrifice of his bodie should effectually clense the sinnes of the world And so againe The Apostle q Idem in ca. 1. ep ad Coloss. vers 22. expresseth the materiall cause of our reconciliation or the thing wherewith the Father reconciled vs to himselfe to 〈◊〉 by the oblation of the true and humane body of Christ deliuered to death for our sinnes This he meaneth when he saith in the body of his flesh through death For this body which was truely flesh and an humane body not simply but as it died is the matter of our reconciliation by that was reconciliation made He r Ibidem ioineth the body with bloud because both are the price of our reconciliation and by both were our sinnes clensed The Apostle then s Ibidem signifieth reconciliation was by the oblation of the body of Christ as by the true sacrifice sor sinne Zanchius speaketh not precisely you will say against the death of Christes soule In plainely and fully deliuering the matter and meane of our redemption to be the ONELY SACRIFICE of the body and bloud of Christ offered on the crosse to death he excludeth all other ransomes for our sins so maketh the death of Christs soule not onely to be superfluous to mans saluation but no meane of our redemption For in his iudgement t Zanchius de tribus Elohim part 1. li. 5. ca. 1 〈◊〉 10. Christ is the propitiatorie sacrifice for sinne not simply but as he died for vs with the shedding of his bloud and u Ibidem this ONELY SACRIFICE the shedding of Christes bloud vnto death God chose from euerlasting for the expiation of our sinnes and promised the same from the creation of the world and shadowed it with resemblances And touching the death of the soule if you teach as Zanchius doth you will presently finde it is open blasphemie to ascribe to Christ any death of the soule x Zanchâ—… tractat theologicâ—… de peccato originali ca. 4. thes 3 A triple death saith he God threatned to Adam for disobedience a spirituall death which was the separation of grace of the holy Ghost and of originall righteousnesse from the soule and body of Adam of which death in the Scriptures there is often mention made This death Adam died as soone as he did eate The second was a corporall death whereby the soule is seuered from the bodie To this Adam was presently vpon his eating made subiect though he did not straightwayes actually die The third is euerlasting death which is knowen to all of this death Adam was forthwith made guiltie This triple death was the punishment of his disobedience And vpon like occasion comparing the death of the soule and of the bodie he saith y Ibidem in ca. 2. epist. ad ephes vers 5. There is a triple death spirituall of the spirit or soule corporall knowen to all men and the third is that eternall death pertaining to bodie and soule wherewith all the wicked shall be punished in hell These all God threatned to Adam when he said what hower soeuer thou shalt eate c. thou shalt die the death For he straightway died in spirit or soule he incurred also the death of the bodie because he became mortall and was made guiltie of eternall death z Ibid. We haue rightly said death to bee the priuation of life and so of all the actions of life consisting in the separation of bodie and soule The like we must say of the spirituall life and death The spirituall life is a certaine spirituall and diuine force whereby we are mooued to spirituall and diuine actions by the presence of the holy Ghost dwelling in vs. The holy Ghost regenerating vs in this spirituall life is as it were the soule thereof And holy and spirituall thoughts holy desires holy actions both inward and outward are the operations of this spirituall life What then is the death of the spirit euen the priuation of the spirituall life and consequently of all spirituall and good actions in a man destitute of the presence of the holy Ghost which should quicken him comming from sinne and for sinne a Ibidem What strength hath a man dead in bodie to the actions of this life so neither can he that is dead in spirit or soule do any workes of the spirituall life Heere is a full and true description of the death of the spirit or soule of man which if you and your friends dare attribute to Christ then doth Zanchius fauour the death of Christs soule but if euery peece hereof applied to Christ be euident heresie and infidelitie then did Zanchius no way defend the death of Christes soule to be any part of our redemption and as for the second death he acknowledgeth none but that which is eternall and inflicted in hell on all the wicked Much more might be brought to like effect shewing the true and onely meane and matter of our redemption and reconciliation to be the only body and bloud of Christ yeelded vnto death for the ransome of our sinnes but I should make a new volume if I should stand thereon It may suffice in the iudgement of any reasonable man to refute the slaunderous
ascend aboue the higth of the clouds and I wil be like the most high * The last or highest heauen the Scripture nameth the Seat throne or habitation of God which is not only holy as whereinto no vncleane thing shall enter but is aboue all other heauens and often called the heauen of heauens In this is the presence of Gods throne that is a perpetuall and plaine reuelation of his diuine glory and maiesty which the elect Angels alwaies behold And heere is not only the fulnesse of ioy as in the presence of God but the stability security and satiety of euerlasting life and blisse to men and Angels without any defect doubt or danger of failing or decreasing In this they want nothing and besides this they desire nothing since in him who is all in all they find all things worthy loue delight and ioy Looke downe from heauen saith Esay to God and behold from the dwelling place of thine holinesse and glory And Ieremie The Lord shall crie from aboue and giue out his voice from his holy habitation Behold the heauens and the heauens of heauens containe thee not saith Salomon Praise the Lord from the heauens saith the Psalmist praise him in the highest Praise him all his Angels praise him all his armies Praise him heauens of heauens To this place when Christ ascended with his body the Apostle saith of him that he was made higher then the heauens and ascended aboue all the heauens and sitteth â—…t the right hand of maiesty in the high places Now two we call both not all but of three we first vse this word â—…ll And the Greeke tongue hath a speciall number for two which is the duall the plurall is applied to moe Besides Moses saith in the beginning before the light or firmament were created God made eth hashamaiâ—…m the heauens and the earth where by the name of heauen the best interpreters vnderstand the place appointed for the habitation of Angels and the reuelation of Gods glory Now the word hashamaiâ—…m in Hebrew being not the singular number must haue diuers maâ—…s in it as well as the aire and 〈◊〉 haue diuers regions and sphaeres to make the name of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 agree to either of them So that when Christ is said to haue ascended aâ—… the heauens nature reason and Grammar besides Scripture seeme to teach vs that he ascended aboue that part of the third heauen where the Apostle noteth Paradise to be And consequently if the soules of the righteous deceased be in Paradise they are not as yet in the highest heauens where Christ sitteth in the glory of God his Father in whose house are many mansions and whether they shal be admitted at the last day when Christ shall come againe to take them vnto himselfe and to haue them for euer with him in the possession and communion of his kingdome and glory that they may be like the Angels To this difference of place and glorie before and after the day of iudgement the Scriptures incline as well as the Fathers if I mistake them not which I referre to the iudgement of the wise and learned S. Iohn saw the soules of the Martyrs Vnder the altar where they were willed to rest vntill the number of their fellow seruants were fulfilled But when crownes of glorie are giuen them as in the last day they shall stand in the presence of the throne of God and before the Lambe and he that sitteth on the throne will dwell among them Henceforth saith Paul is laied vp for me the crowne of righteousnesse which the Lord the iust iudge shall giue me at that day and not to me only but vnto all that loue his appearing Blessed be God saith Peter who hath be gotten vs again vnto â—… liuely hope to an inheritance immortall vndâ—…filed which fadeth not away reserued in heauen for you which is prepared to be shewed in the last time Now are we the Sonnes of God saith Iohn but yet it doth not appeere what we shall be we know that when he shall appecre we shall be like him for we shall see him as he is that is aswell the glorie of his Godhead as of his manhood Then as Paul saith to all the faithfull Your life is hidde with Christ in God When Christ which is our life shall appeare then shall ye also appeare with him in glory And he shal say Come ye blessed of my Father receaue the kingdome prepared for you from the foundation of the world and not retaine the kingdome already possessed by you It were easie out of new writers to shew the same Master Calâ—…m shall suâ—…ce for al who vseth not ouersoone to concurie with the fathers when they diuert from the Scriptures The soules of the saints after death are in peace saith he because they are escaped from the power of the enemy But when heauenly Ierusalem shal be aduanced to her glory and the true Salomon Christ the king of peace shall sitte aloft in his iudgement seat then shall the true Israelites raigne with their KING This they may easily perceiue by the Scriptures whosoeuer haue learned to giue eare to God and heare his voice This also haue they deliuered to vs by hand who haue sparingly and reuerently handled the mysteries of God For Tertullian saith why should we not admit Abrahams bosome to be called a temporall receptacle of the soules of the faithfull And Chrysostom Vnderstand what and how great a thing it is for Abraham to sitte and for the Apostle Paul to expect vntill he be perfected that then they may receaue their reward For vntill we come the Father hath foretold theÌ„ he wil not giue them their reward Art thou grieued because thou shalt not yet receaue it what should Aâ—… doe who ouercame so long since and yet sitteth without his crowne what Noe and the rest of those times for behold they expected thee and expect others after thee They preuented vs in their conflicts but they shall not preuent vs in their crownes because there is onetime appointed to crowne all together Augustine in many places describeth secret receptacles in which the soules of the godly are kept vntill they receaue their crowne and glory Bernard in two homilies made at the feast of all Saints where he handleth this question of purpose teacheth that the soules of the Saints departed from their bodies do stand as yet in the outward courts of the Lord being admitted to rest but not to glory Into that most blessed â—…ouse saith he they shall not enter neither without vs nor without their bodies Those that place soules in some part of heauen so they giue them not the glory of the resurrection to be shewed on them at the time of the resurrection and not before they differ nothing from the former opinion And in his institutions Since the Scripture euery where biddeth vs depend
vpon the expectation of Christs comming and differreth the crowne of glory 〈◊〉 that time let vs be content with the boundes which God hath appointed vs that the soules of the godly hauing ended their warfare of this life depart into an happy rest where with a blessed ioy they looke for the fruition of the promised glory and so all things stand suspended till Christ our redeemer appeare Then none of these writers old nor new so conceaued or so expounded Christes wordes as you doe that all his Saints doe locally accompany him and generally wheresoeuer he abideth or whithersoeuer he goeth The Fathers all with one voice I may truely affirme teach and beleeue euen that Christ after death went no whither but where his faithfull and holy seruants were yea and there remained till his resurrection To which consent of men some where you ascribe exceeding much Your assertions all the Fathers with one consent refuse to which agreement of learned and auncient writers I confesse I yeeld very much when there is no expresse Scripture against it alleaged and vrged by some of themselues as in all the cases where I forsake them there is but what is that to your nouelties who neither in the first nor second question yeeld any thing to their iudgements and censures put them altogether That the soules of the faithfull before the comming of Christ were in Abrahams bosome our Sauiour first deliuered and no father that I know departeth from it but where Abrahams bosome was whether in earth or elsewhere and whether it were a skirt of hell or no till Christ transferred them thence to Paradise of this some fathers diuersely thinke and diuersely speake And but that Saint Austin learnedly discusseth and resolueth this point that Abrahams bosome could be no member nor part of hell since this was a secret habitation of rest and happinesse which the Scripture neuer affirmeth of hell but calleth it a place of torment it would be hard for you or any of your crue to say where Abrahams bosome was That Christ after death went to the place where the faithfull were in expectation and desire of his comming to redeeine the world the Fathers affirme but that he went no whither else or that hec went not to the place of the damned as well to discharge and release his members thence that is from all feare and daunger thereof as to destroy the power of the diuell ouer all his and to triumph ouer the force and furie of Satan in his owne person that euery knee of things vnder the earth should bow to him as well as of things in heauen and earth in this you vtterly mistake the consent of the Fathers which you so much talke of and shew that you neuer came neere the reading of them howsoeuer you presume to affirme what you list of them And least I should carie the Reader without cause to rest on my word as you would haue him doe on yours he shall heare the Fathers speake their owne mindes and so the better iudge of your abusing them Ireneus Dauid said prophesying this of Christ thou hast deliuered my soule from the nethermost hell Cyprian When in Christs presence hell was broken open captiuitie made captiue his conquering soule being presented to his fathers sight returned without delay to his bodie Lactantius or as some thinke Venantius o The darkenesse fled at the brightnesse of Christ the grosse mist of eternall night vanished Hinc tumuluÌ„ repetens post tariâ—…ra carne resumpta belliger ad coelos ampla trophea refers Then after thy being in hell thou going to thy graue resuming thy bodie as a warrier thou barâ—…st to heauen a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 CONQVEST ouer hell Athanasius 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 who euer went to hell besides the sonne which rose from the dead at the sight of whom 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the keepers of hell gates shrâ—…ncke for feare Yea HADES HELL or the Diuell at the sight of him 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 was afraid and amazed saying Who is this that descendeth hither with so great power and authoritie Who is this that teareth open the brazen gates of hell breaketh the bars of Adamant Who is this that being crucisied is not conquered by me who am death Who is this that looseth their bandes whom I conquered Who is this that by his owne death destroyeth me that am death Eusebius To him only were the gates of death opened him only the keepers of hell gates seeing shranke for feare and the chiefe ruler of death the diuell knowing him alone to be his Lord rose out of his loftie throne and spake to him fearefully with supplication intreatie Eusebius called Emisenus The Lord descending darkenesse trembled at the suddaine sight of vnknowen light Aâ—… praefulgidum fidus caeloruÌ„ Tartareae caliginis profunda viderunt And the deepes of hellish darkenesse saw the most bright starre of heauen Deposito quidâ—… corpore imas atque abdit as Tartari sedes filius hominis penetrauit the Sonne of man laying aside his body pearced the lowest and secret seates of Tartarus or of the dungeon of hell Hilarie The powers of heauen doe incessantly glorifie the Sonne of God sor conquering death breaking the gates of hell In hell he killed death Gregorie Nazianzene Going to the gates of hell all couered with darknesse thou shalt pearce hell with a sharpe speare and shalt deliuer all thou alone being free and shalt besides haue the victory ouer thine enemies 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 valiantly SVBDVING HELL the SERPENT and DEATH Chryâ—…ostome Descendente in tenebrosam inferoruÌ„ caligineÌ„ Domino ettam illic tunâ—… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 dubio dies splendidissimus fuit vbi seruator illuxit tenuit in illo noctis horrore inuiolabilem Maiestatis suae splendorem The Lord descending into the darke mâ—…st of hell euen there no doubt then was a most cleere day where our Sauiour shined In that horror of night he held the brightnesse of his Maiestie inuiolable Ierom. Pro vita populi mortuus non es derelictus in Tartaro Dying for the life of thy people thou wast not left in hell And againe Christ dâ—…stroyed and brake open the closed places of hell and put the diuell that had power ouer death from his kingdome and Dominion Augustine If the holy Scripture had sayd that Christ after death came to Abrahams bosome not naming hell and the sorrowes thereof I maruaile if any man would haue durst to affirme that Christ descended into hell But because euident testimonies of the Scripture mention hell and the sorowes thereof no cause is occurrent why our Sauior should be beleeued to haue come thither but to saue from those paines And againe There is a lower hell â—…hither the dead go whence God would deliuer our soules by sending his sonne thither For therefore Christ came euen
vnto hell that we should not abide in hell Ruffinus Eousque ille miserando descendit vsquequo tu peccando deiectâ—…s es Christ descended of mercie to the very place whither thou wast deiected by sinne Fulgentius It remained to the full effect of our redemption that the man which God tooke vnto him without sin should descend euen thither whither man separated from God fell by desert of sin that is to hell where the soule of a sinner vseth to be tormented and to the graue where the flesh of a sinner vseth to be corrupted yet so that neither Christs flesh might rot in the graue nor his soule be â—…ormented with the sorrowes of hâ—…ll Cyrill The powers Principalities and rulers of the world which the Apostle numbreth none other could conquere and carie into the desart of hell but only he who said be of good hope I haue ouercome the world Therefore it was necessary that our Lord Sauiour should not only be borne a man amongst men but also descend to hell that he might carie into the wildernesse of hell the goate that was to be led away and returning thence this worke perfourmed might ascend to his father Caesarius Arelatensis Aeterna nox inferorum Christo descendente resplenduit attonitae mentis obstupuere Tortores The euerlasting darkenesse of hell was made bright with Christs descending thither the tormentors inwardly stroken were amazed Prudentius Tartarum benignus intrat fracta cedit Ianua fertur horruisse mundus noctis aeternae chaos Christ mildely entred hell breaking open the gates the world shooke at the opening of Chaos of euerlasting darkenesse Arator Infernum Dominus cum destructurus adiret Sol ruit in Tenebras arua tremunt concussa locis saxa crepant tartara moesta gemunt quia vincula cunta quiescunt Mors ibi quid faceret quo vitae portitor ibat When the Lord went to hell to destroy it the Sunne was darkned the earth shooke the rockes claue in sunder Hell mourned to see her bands loosed But what could death doe there whither the bringer of life came Petrus Chrysologus Mortem suscepisse vicisse intrasse inferos redijsse venisse in iura Tartari Tartari iura soluisse non est fragilit as sed potestas To suffer death and to conquere it to goe to hell and to returne to come within the lawes of the dungeon of hell â—…nd to dissolue the lawes therof is not weakenesse but power And thus he maketh Christ to speake after his resurrection to his Disciples Ego ex mortuis sum vinus ex infernis sum supernâ—…s Ego sum quem mors fugit inferna tremuerunt Tartarus Deum confessus est I am aliue from the dead and come vp from those below I am he whom death fled from hell trembled at and the dungeon of hell confessed to be God Maximus This day of Christes resurrection which the Lord hath made penetrat omnia vniuersa continet coelum terram Tartarumque complectitur pearceth all places conteineth all compriseth heauen earth and the dungeon of hell For that Christ the true day lightned heauen earth and the deepe of hell the Scripture witnesseth There should be no end of alleaging if I should cite all that speake to this purpose These be auncient and sufficient to prooue this refuter a fabler in affirming that the Fathers with one voice auouch Christ went no whither but where his faithfull and holy seruants were whom the Fathers did not thinke to be in the torments of hell nor in the place of the damned and to shew that I teach none other sense of the Creed then all these Fathers and infinit others did before me Neither can they be shifted off as this Trifler vseth to decline them who name Hades that they ment the world of soules which might be as well in heauen or paradise as in hell since they speake of Christes descent after death to that place where there was euerlasting darknesse and amazednesse of diuels bondage and punishment of sinners deliuerance from destruction an happie and mightie conquest ouer enemies with such like circumstances which by no meanes can agree either to Paradise or heauen or to any other place but onely to hell where these things are found and no where else And if new writers may be regarded I could bring as many or moe of them of great learning and good iudgement confessing and allowing this exposition of the Creede which I follow that Christ descended into Hell to destroy Satans power and force ouer his and to free them all from comming thither as concurrent and consonant with the sacred Scriptures and namely refelling your fansie that Christ went no whither but where his faithfull and holy seruants were The very Catechisme which you would seeme so much to respect as if it were the publicke and authorised doctrine of this Realme maketh it needfull to beleeue that as Christs body was laid in the bowels of the earth so his soule separated from his body descended ad inferos to the places or spirits below that is to hell and with all the force and efficacie of his death so pearced vnto the dead atque inferos adeo ipsos and euen to the spirits in hell that the soules of the vnfaithfull perceaued the condemnation of their infidelity to be most sharp and iust ipseque inferorum princeps Satan and Satan himselfe the Prince of hell saw all the power of his tyrannie and of darcknesse to be weakned broken and destroied and contrariwise the dead who whiles they liued beleeued in Christ vnderstood the worke of their redemption to be performed and felt the fruite and force thereof with a most sweet and certaine comfort The Catechisme treating of Christs descent to hell mentioned in the Creed deliuereth this to be the sense thereof that Christes soule separated from his body descendit ad inferos descended vnto hell And least we should doubt what he meaneth by inferi he putteth inferos as a degree lower farder then the dead in saying Penetrauit ad mortuos atque inferos adeo ipsos Christ pearced vnto the dead and which more is euen to hell it selfe and maketh Satan to be Princeps inferorum the Prince of hell Who is no chiefe ruler either in heauen or Paradise but onlie in hell Againe he resolueth that together with the soule of Christ came the power force of Christs death as well to the faithfull which were saued by him as to the rest iustly condemned for their vnbeliefe and that the Diuell himselfe saw all the power of darckenesse afflicted and oppressed by Christ. More then this I do not teach so much the catechisme auoucheth to be part of the Christian faith and the meaning of that article in the Creed Christ descended into hell Peter Martyr likewise in the confession of his faith and exposâ—…tion of the Creed sayth As touching Christes soule as soone as it
departed from the bodie it rested not idle but descended ad inferos vnto hell And surely the one and the other societic both of godly soules and of the damned found the presence of Christes soule For the soules of the faithfull were cheered with great comfort and gaue God thanks sor deliuering them by the hand of this Mediatour and performing that which so long before he had promised Other soules also adiudged to euerlasting damnation animae Christi aduentum persenserunt perceiued the comming of Christes soule Zanchius shewing the different interpretations of those words of the Apostle Christ spoiled powers and principalities and made an open shew of them triumphing ouer them in himselfe that is in his owne person sayth Other Interpreters hold that these enemies were vâ—…nquished and conquered on the crosse by Christ but the triumph was pâ—…rformed when Christ in his soule entred the kingdome of Hell as a glorious victorer For so they interpret the Article He descended into Hell And because the word deigmatizein doth signifie to carie one in an open shew as the Romans were woont in the eyes of men to leade their enemies once ouerthrowen with their hanâ—…s bound behinde them to their perpetuall shame and the soule of Christ separated from his bodie might really doe this to the diuels bringing them out of their infernall kingdome and carying them along the aire in the sight of all the Angels and blessed soules therefore nothing hindereth vs to interpret that which Paul heere writeth as the words sound euen of a reall triumph ouer the diuels in the sight of God onlie and of the blessed spirits specially since the Fathers for the most part so expound them ex nostris non pauci neque vulgares and of our Expositors not a few and those no meane men Aretius in his Problemes purposely treating of Christes descent to hell first alleageth that Tota Ecclesia vbique terrarum hodie illum Articulum agnoscit diuer sum à sepultura recitat the whole Church throughout the world at this date acknowledgeth that article and reciteth it as different from Christs buriall And to that obiection that some Creeds had not this clause he answereth The Church finding the descent of Christ to hell to be plainly deliuered in the Scriptures with great aduise admitted this Article into the Creed Otherwise how could it be that with so full consent of all nations and all tongues this clause should be so constantly and so consentingly receaued Repeating therefore many other senses he refuseth them euery one and concludeth Quare mea est sententia Christum descendisse ad inferos postquam tradidisset spiritum in manus Dei patris in cruce c. Wherfore mine opinion is that Christ descended into hell after he yeelded his soule on the Crosse to the hands of God his Father And hell in this question we put to be a certaine place appointed for the damned euen for Satan and his members To the words of Christ vttered to the thiefe this daie shalt thou be with me in Paradise I answere they hinder not this cause For Christ was in Paradise with the thiefe according to his diuinity in the graue according to his body in hell according to his soule Howbeit there is no certaintie how long Christ staied in hell not long it seemeth so that he might in soule that verie day returne from hell and after a glorious sort enter Paradise with the thiefe Neither hath that any more strength that Christ commended his soule into his Fathers handes For the soule of Christ was still in his Fathers hands though he descended into hell This descent was voide of forrow and shame to Christ. Where they say there was no need of this descent they run backe to the beginning for how should it be needlesse which the Scripture pronounceth Christ did and we confesse in our Creed We iudge it therefore needfull first for the reprobate that they might know he was now come of whose comming they had so often heard but neglected it with great contempt Againe Satan was perfectly to know that this Christ whom he had tempted in the desart and deliuered to death by the fraud of the Iewes was the very Messias and the seed promised to the woman Hoc inquam expediebat etiam Demonibus in imo Tartaro innotescere This I say was expedient euen for the diuels in the deepe of hell to know Thirdly it was expedient for the elect that Satan might see he should haue no right no not on their bodies since Christ heereafter would raise them to life Hemmingius As Christ by his death conflicted with the enemy on the gibbet of the crosse and ouercame him so by his glorious descent to hell resurrection and ascension to heauen he executed the triumph erecting as a monument of his victorie the ensigne of his crosse Mollerus writing on the 16. Psalme Touching Christes descent to hell We saith he vnderstand that Article of our faith in the Creede simply and without allegorie and beleeue that Christ truely descended to the lower parts of the earth as Paul speaketh Ephes. 4. It is enough for vs to beleeue which Austen affirmeth in his Epistle to Dardanus Christ thereforâ—… descended that he might helpe those which were to be holpen For Christ by his death destroied the powers of hell and the tyrannie of the diuell as is said Osee 13. O death I will be thy death and thy destruction O hell And this his victory he would in a certaine maner shew vnto the diuell that he might strike perpetuall terrors into the diuell and take from vs all feare of Satans tyrannie Let it suffice vs to know this and omit curious questions and disputations heereabouts Pomeranus on these words of the 16. Psalme Thou wilt not leaue my soule in Hell Heere hast thou saith he that Article of our faith Christ descended into hell If thou aske what he did there I answer He then deliuered not the Fathers onely but all the faithfull from the beginning of the world to the end thereof not out of Lymbus but out of the lowest nether most hell to which we all were condemned and in which we all were as in death by the sentence of God There euerlasting fire did abide to vs all that being deliuered to death by the sinne of Adam we might in the last iudgement be deliuered to punishment and perpetuall sire Christ therefore descended euen thither vnto death and hell to this end least thou shouldest dâ—…scend thither that as he had redeemed vs from death so he might deliuer vs from hell Westmerus in his expositions of the Psalmes followeth worde for word the confession of Pomerane Wolfgangus Musculus Christ therefore was to die not that he should simply be dead but that by his death he might conquer death and ouercome him that had the rule ouer death and so he was to descend to hell
either the prophesie which sayd Thou wilâ—… not leaue my soâ—…le in hell which lesâ—…â—…y man should dâ—…e otherwise interpret Peter expoundeth in the Acts of the Apostles nor the words of the same Peter where he affirmeth that Christ loosed the sorowes of hell in which it was impossible he should be held Who then but an Infidell will denie that Christ was in hell All that you haue to say against this is that Iewes and Pagans to wit wicked Rabbins enemies to Christ and Poets ignorant of all trueth vsed the words Sheol and Hades otherwise than the whole Church of Christ without exception till our age receiued and beleeued them from S. Peters mouth and S. Lukes pen that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifieth the foule and hades importeth hell put you from this shiâ—…t and you fall â—…ull within the compasse of S. Austens challenge that is of plaine infidelitie and theâ—…e be simple Sidemen to cleere you from that crime q Now I assume this and by Gods helpe shall make it manifest that there is in all the Scripture no one place whereby it may be prooued by any shew of reason that Christes soule after this life went locally downward from hence or diuersly from the soâ—…les of â—…ll good men deceased Though the opinion you hâ—…e of your â—…lfe be great yet when you come to condemne the whole Church of God â—…s ignorâ—…t of the Christian faith or altering the same you should vse some more modestie than to say they had not one plat â—…all the Scripture nor any shew of reason to beleeue as they did You preâ—…ume much of your Rabbins and Pagans preferring theiâ—… enuioâ—…s and friuolous iâ—…aginations before the iudgement and faith of the whole Châ—…ch of Chrâ—…st yet take good heed lest the better and elder sort euen of your owne Deponents receiue you not and so you test conuicted in the â—…ares of all good mâ—…n to be rather an insolent affecter of nouelties than any regarder of sobrietie or pietie Only there are two or thrâ—… places sonsibly wrested to this pâ—…rpose First that Ephes. 4. where Christ is sayd to hâ—…e come downe into the lowest parts of the earth If that place be wrested from his right sense the Church of Christ from the beginning must be charged with that wresting Ireneuâ—… citeth thoâ—…e very words of the Apostle that Christ descended to the lower parts of the earth and maketh them equiualent with the words of Dauid touching Christ Thâ—… hast deliuered my soule from the nethermost hell saying Hoâ—… Daâ—…id in câ—…m prophetâ—…s dâ—…xit so much Daâ—…id in his prophesiâ—… spake of him Tertullian alleaging the very same wordes of the Apostle concludeth Habes regionem Inferâ—…m subterraneam credere by this thou art to beleeue that the region or place of hell is vnder the earth Cyprian Descendens ad inferos captiuam ab antiquo captiuitatem reduxit Christ descending to hell brought backe the captiuitie that of old was captiuated Arnobius Postea vidit inferos longe factus est non solum à câ—…lis sed ab ipsa Terra in abyssi profunda descendens c after his crosse he visited hell and became farre off not only from heauen but euen from the earth it selfe descending into the depth of the bottomlesse pit Chrysostom Christ descended to the lower parts of the earth after which there are none other And he ascended aboue all higher than which there is nothing Ambrose vpon that place of â—…aul After death Christ descended to hell whence rising the third day he ascended aboue all the heauens afore all men Ierom out of those words of the Apostle Christ descended to the lower parts of the earth first concludeth Infernum sub terra esse nemo iam ambigat Let no man now doubt but hell is vnder the earth And expounding the rest he sayth Qui descendit cum anima in infernum ipse cum anima corpore ascendit in coelum He that descended to hell in soule ascended to heauen with bodie and soule Primasius vpon the same words of Paul maketh the like collection Ergo sub terra est infernus Qui descendit cum anima in infernum ipse cum anima corpore ascendit ad coelos Therefore hell is vnder the earth And he that in soule descended to hell ascended to heauen in soule and bodie Photius To the lower parts of the earth after which place there is no lower he meaneth hell Dorotheus What is He led captiuitie captiue By Adams transgression the enemie made vs all captiues and had vs in subiection Christ then tooke vs againe out of the enemies hand and conquered him that made vs captiuâ—… Erepti sumus igitur ab inferis ob Christi humanitatem We were then taken from hell by Christes humanity Theophylact At quem in locum descendit In infernum c. To what place did Christ descend To hell which he calleth the lowest parts of the carth after the common opinion of men Haymo First Christ descended to the lower parts of the â—…arth into hell and after he ascended to heauen He descended to hell in his soule alone and then he ascended aboue all the heauens in body and soule It must be noted by this that he sayth Christ descended to the lower parts of the earth he sheweth hell to be vnder the earth whence it is called Infernus because it is lower than the earth or vnder the earth Zanchius repeating diuers Expositions of this place addeth in the end The Fathers for the most part are of this opinion that Christ in his soule came to the place of the damned to signifie not in words but with his presence that the iustice of God was satisfied by his death and bloudshed and that Satan had no longer power ouer his Elect whom he held captiue that himselfe was made Lord ouer all and all power ouer heauen and earth giuen him and a Name aboue all Names that in the name of Iesu euery knee of things celestiall terrestriall and infernall should bow neither that he came thither only to signifie this in such sort as is sayd but also that he might câ—…ie all the diuels with him in a triumph as it is Coloss 2. He spoiled powers and principalities and made an open shew of them leading them as captiues in a triumph by the vertue of his crosse by which he had purged sinnes and appeased the iustice of God Could he not haue done this without any such descent of his soule He could but he would be so farre humbled that his soule should descend into that most darke and wretched place though not there to suffer any thing but to beginne thence his triumph ouer the power of the Diuell And this opinion of the Fathers I dare not condemne since it is not repugnant to the sacred Scriptures and hath likely reasons The consent of the Fathers when it is not contrary to
vnder earth And because Chrysostome is quoted as one of the Patrons of these pretences I am content to let you see that Chrysostome is abused as well as the rest For howsoeuer Chrysostome be vehement and sometimes figuratiue in his speeches yet shall you not be able to prooue that he euer vseth Hades after Christes death and resurrection for the place of iust mens soules Before that time some of the Greeke Fathers supposing the soules of the iust to be kept vnder the earth you may perchance finde heere and there a sentence where the iust are said to be in Hades but you shall neuer be able to euince that after Christes resurrection Hades is either the common condition or place of soules departed good and bad as you and some others would seeme to obserue out of the Greeke Fathers I speake of no more then I haue read in Greeke but for so much as is extant of theirs and I could get I dare assure the Reader he shall finde my saying to be true As for the Homilie of Chrysostome which you cite it can doe you no great good The Greeke to my knowledge is not Printed and therefore you can conclude nothing for Hades since the Grecians haue and vse many words for Inferi besides Hades Cyril of Ierusalem expressing in Greeke that Article of the Creed descendit ad inferos saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Christ descended to the places below or vnder the earth to redeeme thence the iust But graunt the worde Hades be vsed in that place of Chrysostome what prooue you more then that Chrysostom was of opinion the soules of the iust before Christes comming were not in heauen or Paradise but in Hades vnder the earth neither shall we need for witnesse thereof to goe any farder then the same Homilie which you produce for your purpose His wordes euen there are these Simulque consider andum quod Abraham apud inferos erat Nondum enim Christus resurrexerat qui illum in Paradisum duceret Antequam Christus moreretur nemo in Paradisum conscenderat nisi Latro. And withall we must consider that Abraham was yet 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 apud inferos with those that were vnder the earth For Christ was not yet risen who should bring him into Paradise Before Christ died no man ascended to Paradise but the thiefe No man could enter into Paradise which Christ had shut The thiefe was the first that entred with Christ. The crosse of Christ is the key of Paradise the crosse of Christ opened Paradise Abraham is yet vnder the generall condition of death though his soule be in Paradise but Abraham is no longer in Hades where he was before Christs comming by Chrysostoms opinion Hades therefore is neither Paradise nor the generall state of the dead after Christes death and resurrection which cannot be strange to him that with any moderate paines peruseth Chrysostom Nec mors tollere nec infernus potuit hanc animam tenere qua iubente tremens etiam vinctas animas quas tenebat amisit Christo moriente dâ—…tione Tartarus perdidit quos tenebat abiecit infernus ius potestatis antiquae Neither could death take nor â—…nfermis or Hades hold Christs soule at whose coÌ„mandement hel or Hades trembling let go the soules which he held bound Christ dying hell lost out of his dition or custodie whom before it held Infernus or Hades threw of the right of his former power And after his eloquent manner speaking in the person of Christ hee saith amongst other things I should haue left vngratefull men to euerlasting punishment but mercie I confesse preuailed with mee I sent not an Angel but I my selfe came downe for thee I suffered my selfe to bee slaine sic ad istos Inseros veni and so came to these lower places Goe out now you that are bound rise vp yee that are wretched breath your selues yee prisoners Behold I shine on you as light vnwoonted behold I breake all your cordes and chaines Ecce Tarteareas sedes noctemque profundam faetidumque chaos extermino Beholde I abolish to you these infernall seats this darke mist and stincking chaos Here is Chrysostomes hades which I trust is not the generall state nor place of all mens soules vnder Christ specially since Chrysostom in plaine speech sayth Christ abolished and ended all these things to them that were in hell or hades If you stand on the Greeke word as not expressed in Chrysostoms Latine copies out of these Latine translations your Leaders by their leaues gathered their obseruations for these parts of Chrysostom are not yet printed in Greeke and therefore rightly may they berefuted by the same But though it be no small defect that we want as yet the most of Chrysostoms works in Greeke neuerthelesse by part you shall perceiue what he meaneth by the word Hades wheresoeuer it is occurrent in his writings In his homilie of the resurrection which I before cited lying in the New Colledge Librarie in Oxford he hath these words 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The Lord came on his crosse and payed a death for man who was held of the diuell that he might free him from the bands of hades Where the bands of hades are those wherein man was deteined of the diuell And elsewhere speaking of the crosse of Christ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 If the crosse of Christ brake vp the gates of hades and set wide open the arches of heauen and renewed the entrance into Paradise what maruell is it if it ouer came deadly poisons and cruell beasts And so againe God by Christ abolished the curse 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and brake in pieces the gates of hades and opened Paradise And shewing a generall consent of all nations in this vse of the word hee sayth The Grecians Barbarians Poets and Philosophers and all sorts of men consent with vs in this though not after the same maner 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and say that there are certaine iudgements or punishments in hades Which Theodoret likewise confesseth to betrue These speeches sayth he are sit for Philosophie 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to send the soules that haue liued here well to heauen and those that haue followed the contrary downe to hades And of Plato he sayth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 In many places he affirmeth tortures in hades And least I should be thought to be lead with a desire to contradict without cause or vpon some conceit to oppose my selfe against such learned men as haue leaned that way supposing hades with the Greek Fathers to import the place and state of good bad after death I am not vnwilling good Christian Reader if it be not tedious or troublesome to thee to set downe part for the whole would make a new volume of that which in reading I haue obserued touching the vse of the word hades with auncient writers that were Christians who vse not
thing so to thinke Ambrose confesseth the same Expers peccati Christus cum ad Tartari ima descenderet vinctas peccato animas mortis dominatione destructa é fâ—…ucibus Diaboli reuocauit ad vitam Christ free from sinne when he descended to the lowest pit of hell recalled to life out of the diuels iawes the soules that were bound with sinne destroying the Dominion of death And so doth Ierom. Infernus locus suppliciorum atque cruciatuum est in quo videtur diues purpuratus ad quem descendit dominus vt vinctos de Carcere din itteret Infernus is the place of punishments and torments in which the rich man clothed with purple was seene and to which the Lord descended to dimisse such as were bound out of prison These I trust were no Heretikes but if need were and I would vse that aduantage against you which you insisting on Tertullians error seeke against me they would doe little lesse then prooue you to be a refuser and peruerter of the faith receiued in the Church of Christ and professed not by them onely but by all those Fathers whom I formerly cited as concurring in this cause with them But I smile at your follie and remit your reproches to the Readers impartiall Censure Athanasius also saying where humane soules were held by death there Christ brought his humane soule meaneth nothing else but that his soule came vnder the same condition of death as other humane soules did not that he went to the place of the damned Neither must he be vnderstood after your partiall translation when you say ex orco out of hell himselfe saith ex Hadou out of the power of death You set your selfe to outface all the places which I brought out of the Fathers for Christs descent to hell and as you played your part in wrenching wrying the words of Tertullian Austin from their rightsense so you continue in all the rest with like successe thinking it enough for you to say the word though it be neuer so false and farre from the Fathers meaning As first in Athanasius wordes what double punishment was that I pray which God threatned to Adam for sinne in saying to the earthly part earth thou art to earth shalt thou returne and to the soule thou shalt die the death for those are Athanasius words and what be the two places to which man after his dissolution was condemned Did God threaten nothing to Adam but the dissolution of bodie and soule or did he threaten the death of the soule also after this life which properly noteth hell besides the death of the bodie I trust you be not so senselesse as to say that God for sinne threatened no more to Adam and his posteritie but onely a bodily death for so could none of Adams off-spring by that sentence be adiudged to hell which yet we find daily performed by Gods iustice Then the death of mans soule threatened by God for sinne and meant by Athanasius in those words which you would elude was the place of perpetuall torments where the soule of man was truly held in death and not the condition of the soule seuered from the bodie without respect of any consequent miserie Therefore your maine foundation is euidently false that Athanasius by the death of mans soule meaneth nothing els but the soules being apart from the bodie without regard of punishment following but in expresse words he noteth the place Vbi tencbatur anima humana in morte where the soule of man was held captiue in death which spite of your heart must needes be hell Againe according to the double death threatned for sinne Athanasius saith â—… Homo in duas partes discerpitur vt ad duo loca discedat condemnatur Man dying is distracted in two parts and CONDEMNED TO TWO PLACES Now in your diuinitie is any man condemned to heauen or to Paradise you must find vs then two places of condemnation whither either part of man dissolued was adiudged as his bodie to the graue his soule to hades So saith Athanasius in expresse words If you can shew me another place of condemnation well you may say that a man is diuided 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 into three places and that being reuoked out of two places he remaineth bound in the third but if you can shew none other place of condemnation 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 besides the graue and Hades from which man is perfectly freed Christ deliuering vs how say you then that God is not reconciled vnto mankind If then Hades bee a place of condemnation â—…or sinne where the soule of man was bound till it was freed by Christ 〈◊〉 certainely Hades with Athanasius is neither Paradise nor heauen but onely hell Againe if by death raigning in the soule of man Athanasius intended nothing but the condition of death common to good and bad and euen to Christ himselfe how could hâ—… say of Christ that he was then and there inuiolus a morte not subâ—…ect to death or that he brake 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the bands of the soules detained in hades Hath heauen or Paradise any bands that must be broken And as for you last conceit that Hades being enemie and opposite to the immortalitie and resurrection of mens persons cannot by any means be hell for in hell shal be immortality resurrection as well as in heauen it is so like to the rest of your diuinitic that I doc not ouer much maruaile at it If hades be enemie and opposite to immortalitie as you confesse out of Athanasius then Hades is neither heauen nor Paradise for they are both places of immortalitie there is no death but life in either of them And though you cunningly shift handes and change mens persons for mens soulâ—…s of which Athanasius speaketh when he sayth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 where mans soule was held in death there Christ presented his humane soule to breake the chaines of death euen in hades yet that immortality is as well in hell as in heauen is a phrase of your owne framing to put all trueth and faith out of ioint The Scriptures teach most truely that God alone hath immortality It then you haue found vs a new immortalitie in hell you haue found vs a new God also And what is immortalitie but without all death since then in hâ—…ll there is nothing but death that eternall as well of soule as of body your deuices are very delâ—…cate in euerlasting death to finde no death But dally not thus with the grounds of Religion least God doe not dally with you if by your assertion the deliuerance from death and immortalitie which Christ brought to his elect be none other then such as men in hell shall haue pray God your braines be not as much crazed as your faith is And as for your interpreting Athanasius words and gessing at his meaning when we vse madde men to
giue aduise we will send for you to make comments vpon their counsels Where you make Athanasius say Christ was held in this death till â—…e spoiled and conquered it which you conclude cannot be hell out of question You speake not one true word Athanasius hath no such words that Christ was held in death Of mans soule he saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that was held in death but of Christ in that very sentence he auoucheth the cleane contrary saying 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 be could not be held in death Secondly that hades was spoiled of all his power right and claime to or ouer all Christs elect and we deliuered thence Athanasius as well as the rest beareth plentifull witnesse But that Christ spoiled heauen or Paradise where the soules of the Saints were seuered from their bodies brought vs thence is not onely a false fable but a pestilent error Christ raising his body from the graue by Athanasius iudgement gaue vs hope of the resurrection of our bodies and bringing backe his soule from hades as not onely vntouched of any death there but also loosing the bands 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of soules surprised by hades he made vs partakers of his immortality which the strength of hades could not touch Descending to hades Christ brought vs backe saith Athanasius of himselfe and of all Christs members as then not borne Christ did not bring all the faithful of the old Testament from the condition of death much lesse brought he the rest thence that were not either dead or borne We die still and so the condition of death is common to vs after Christs resurrection as it was to the fathers before Christs death and birth but hell hath now no right to vs nor power ouer vs since Christ our head conquered and spoiled Satan of all interest and chalenge to any of his members And where you pretend that hades is spoiled because our soules shal be ioined againe to our bodies at the resurrection know you good Sir that the separation of the soule from the bodie was to dure by Gods ordinance but for a time as well in the wicked as in the godly that is vntil the generall iudgement And you that defend a resurrection and immortality as well of the wicked in hell as of the Saints in Paradise what reason can you giue why the condition of the soule separated from the body is more conquered by Christ for his members then by Satan for his partners for that separation shall cease in both and consequently the force of death seuering the soule from the body is spoiled aswell for the reprobate as for the elect Yea the continuing of the godly soules asunder from their â—…odies till the last day is rather a furnishing and storing of your hades then a conquering and spoiling of it And therefore mocke not with these matters they be of more importance then that they may be thus idlely caried Hilarie verily hath this meaning also saying this is the law of humane necessity that their bodies goe downe to the graue their soules to the world of the dead ad inferos Which descent the Lord did not refuse that he might prooue himselfe in euery point to be true man And this for his soule to come vnder the power of death was indeed the law of humane necessity after the like phrase as Iustine Irenaeus and Tertullian also speake but not to goe to hell Your head is so fraighted with falseshoods that trueth can take no place there and so little is your skill though your pride be great that you doe not know for ought that I see how necessity of death came into mans nature Whiles man was free from sinne he was free from death By sinne came death When man lost his innocencie he lost his liberty and fell both within the seruitude of sinne and necessity of death Now death being the wages of sinne reacheth aswell to the soule after this life as to the body to be depriued of this life By one offence came guiltinesse on all men vnto condemnation The law then of humane necessity for sinne without Christ Iesus in whom we recouer liberty is for the body to goe to corruption and for the soule to descend to destruction and not onely to be seuered from the body as you would faine mistake the words of Hilarie It is no part of humane necessity for the soule seuered from the body to ascend to heauen or to Paradise that is the honour and fauour of our Redemption purchased by Christ our Sauiour but necessity of death in vs which is the reward of sinne draweth the whole man body and soule vnto condemnation This you might haue found to be Hilaries meaning by the words precedent which occasioned this conclusion Si descendero in infernum ades If I goe downe to hell thou art there Which Hilarie sheweth to be verified in Christ by the words that you bring meaning that as men by sinne came to this necessitie that their bodies lying in the graue their soules descended to hell So Christ the redeemer of man refused not euen this descent to hell ad consummationem veri hominis to consummate true man or to recouer and restore both parts of man to witte body and soule whereof a true man consisteth That Christ should descend to places vnseene and vnknowen to prooue himselfe a true man what sense can this haue since no man liuing was present to see the proofe thereof and he that doubted whether Christ liuing were a true man would much more doubt whether Christ rising in that glorious bodie which neuer man saw before noâ—… the like were a true man or no. I thinke therefore by your leaue that as Christ died not to prooue himselfe a true man but to ransome our sinnes so he descended to the places below not to make proofe to vs that he was a true man but to worke our saluation and consummation as elswhere the same Father saith Crux mors inferi nostra salus est Christs crosse death and descent to inferi are parts of our saluation And of Christ he voucheth mortem in inferno perimens he killed death in hell And yet if with you we should take consummation for demonstration which is farre fet and say Christ reâ—…used not that descent to shew himselfe a true man it nothing hurteth me since that burden of necessity lay on all men for desert of sinne till they were deliuered by Christ to haue their bodies goe to the graue and their soules to the place of punishment both which Christ refused not though he were in the one without any corruption in the other without any condemnation but as conquerour of both Of Iustine Irenaeus Tertullian we haue spoken before we shall not need to iterate your ouersights Iustine speaketh of no law at all Irenaeus noteth the law of the dead to be this that they must stay a time dead before their
other but a bodily death then Christ descended onely to the graue but if the desert of our sinne tied vs as guiltie to the torments of hell then Christ by Ruffinus confession so farre descended how farre we were by Gods iustice deiected that is to the place of condemnation for sinne And therefore Ruffinus doth not onely knit these speaches together in the person of Christ as expounding one the other Eduxisti de Inferno animam meam de abysso terrae â—…erum adduxisti me thou hast brought my soule from Infernus and hast brought me backe againe from the deepe of the earth But of the diuell he saith Qui mortis habebat imperium disruptis Inferni claustris velut de profundo tractus traditur he that had Rule of death was drawen as it were out of the deepe the cloysters of Infernus being broken open The place where the diuell was and whence he was drawen when he was spoyled and triumphed by Christ was not the separation of the Soule from the Body which the diuel hath not but it was the deepe of hell which here is called Infernus So that it is certaine by all the Fathers generally First that Hades and Sheol are taken for the state of death common to the Soules of good and bad Secondly Christ went not into hell the place of the damned as you hold but to the habitation of the blessed deceased If I haue not conuinced both these collections to be false by the manifest Testimonies of the Fathers for out of them you gather these obseruations then I desire no mans consent to any thing that I haue sayd but if you grosly mistake and misuse all the Fathers names and speeches then I trust the Reader will better consider what credit is to be giuen to your certainties and giue me leaue to be shorter in slipping ouer your idle presumptuous vaine crafts and false collections which are almost all that is behinde A taste whereof if he will take let him heare these bragges of yours following Thus your vaine boasting of all the Fathers is but a bubble So that if you consent as you say to be tried by all the Fathers Greeke and Latine they quite ouerthrow you notwithstanding your great words If your vaine and shamelesse boasting were not by this time well knowen I would giue some fresh assault to these bulwarks of falsitie and insolenâ—… but the proofs being euident and precedent which I leaue to the Readers indifferent iudgement I will ouerskip this and a great deale more of the same kind as the bubbles or your vanitie and if ought be said to any purpose I will refute that otherwâ—…e I will bestow no more paper and incke on your wandring and wilde conceits Only Austen doubtingly and waueringly differeth from all the rest for thus he saith I confesse I haue not yet found that Inferi are named where the iust mens soules are at peace You might haue done well to haue learned of Austen this sober and modest course not by vaunting and outfacing but by plaine and faire confessing to shew the ground of your opinion as Austen doth of his Wherein he differeth not from all the rest as you confidently yet most iniuriously report of him but in this hee exactly and resolutely consenteth with them all Tertullians errour still excepted that after Christs resurrection Deinceps boni fideles prorsus Inferos nesciunt Good Christians dying come not to Inferi at all And as for the former opinion that the godly deceased before Christes death went ad Inferos to places below in the earth though not to torments which is the stone that still you stumble at and make it the very heart of all your defence deceitfully applying that to the time since Christes resurrection which the Fathers euer intended and expressed to pertaine to the time before Christes comming S. Austen though he yeeld so farre to former writers as to say If it may seeme tâ—… be beleeued without absurditie yet he euery where professeth he could finde no such vse of the word Inferi in any place of the sacred Scriptures and that Abrahams bosome where the Saints did rest before Christs death was a part or skirt of hell he vtterly refuseth that as no way consonant to the wordes of Christ in the Gospell And therefore when he proposeth the other opinion with a condition if it may be beleeued without absurditie euen there he retaineth his owne resolution that Abrahams bosome was in locis à tormentis impiorum remotissimis in places most remote from the torments of the wicked and to beleeue otherwise were an absurditie as he concludeth in his 99. Epistle Against Austin you obiect First that surely the auncients named the places for all deceased good and badde Inferos as they named the world where both wicked and good doe liue Superos Secondly that Austen if hee had well marked it might haue found euen this which he saith he found not in the Latin translation of the Scripture What man is there that shall deliuer his soule from the hand of inferi that is death Where the soule being takeâ—… properly for the soule then Inferi is found applied to iust mens soules deceased as well as to the wicked which Augustine might haue obserued Were you masking this might make mirth but being in earnest it is more then idle What if Arnobius in respect of hell being in the earth beneath vs call vs that liue on earth superos those aboue is that a proofe that the godly deceased are called inferi who knoweth not that infra supra are differences of place which in diuers respects may be diuersly varied To those that are in heauen we are Inferi that is beneath them and in that reference to heauen which is aboue vs Augustine himselfe doubteth not to call the earth Infernum Ad hoc infernum missus est filius Dei nascendo ad illud inferius moriendo To this earth below was the Sonne of God sent when he was borne to that other place beneath vs when he died But if no speciall comparison of place bee expressed then Superi Inferi the Saints aboue and the spirits beneath are generally so called in regard of vs who dwell on earth and speake on earth are by position of place in the middest that is lower then the highest and higher then the lowest And because vnder vs there are none liuing but those in hell therefore Inferi whom the Apostle calleth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 are spirits vnder the earth whether men or diuels As for that other obiection out of the Psalmes it is not onely a bubble soone blowen away but a bable not worth the bringing The translation of Tremelius and Iunius to whom you most appeale for these matters hath eripiat seipsum à sepulchro shall he saue himselfe from the graue that is can hee keepe himselfe that he shall not die and where you
heauen to be hell to decline the force of Fulgentius wordes you fairely answere that Christs descending to infernus where the soules of sinners are tormented was his going to heauen because they both are but one place common to good and bad and the whole hath one name which is Infernus A speciall spleene you beare against S. Austin disgrace him you would if you could tell how that you might be freed from the waight of his iudgement in matters of faith but you want both wit learning for such an enterprise therefore you resist his opinion with more lies then lines Austins differing from you you say is to little purpose and why First because it is contrary to all the auncient Fathers before him with him and since him Heere are three lies in one line all the Fathers before him with him and since him do not dissent from him with you not one of them consenteth Secondly we must not esteeme his saying by the Latin word inferi but by the Originall Sheol hades which are more against him as before I haue shewed Though he did folow the Latin translation then receiued in the Church where he liued yet neither the Hebrew nor the Greeke words are against him For you shal neuer shew that Sheol or Hades throughout the Scripture are taken for any good condition or receptacle of the dead which is Austins aâ—…rtion of the word Inferi much lesse that either of those wordes Sheol or Hades doe any where in the Scriptures import the place or state of the blessed soules which is your error and which you haue no way prooued though you haue spent much paper paines to make some shew for it Thirdly it is waueringly deliuered and with doubt in himselfe yea contrary to himselfe as I haue shewed Heere are three lies more in another line besides those that swarmed in the midst Austin doth deliuer his opinion constantly consonantly to himselfe and you haue shewed no such thing as you pretend but the contrary is euident to him that will but either peruse what I haue sayd or will but reuiew the manner of his setting downe that opinion vpon the eighty fiue Psalme where he saieth alâ—…m etiam opinionem dicam I will set downe another opinion or the opinion of others Fourthly he seeketh to maintaine it erroneously for he giueth this reason and end of Christs going to hell the place of the damned that he might deliuer some of the damned out of hell torments which most strange conceit of his your selfe confâ—…e rightly The end of Christs descending to hell is by the Fathers confessed to be double the one to destroy death and the Ruler thereof euen the diuell the other to deliuer all his Elect from the power danger and feare of hell The Scriptures doe not concâ—…le that Christ by his death and resurrection wrought these things By death Christ deâ—…royed him that had the rule of death euen the diuell and deliuered all them which for fâ—…re of death were all their lâ—…fe long subiect to bondage Rising againe he loosed the sorrowes of death spoiled Principalities and powers and made an open snew of them triumphing ouer them in his owne person Had Christ died and not risen we had perished as Paul confesseth The conquering then of hell and Satan and the deliuering of vs from the power and â—…are of either though this were purchased by Christes obedience vnto death yet was it eâ—…ected and performed by his resurrection from the dead And so much the Councell of Alexandria in their letters to Nestorius professe which the generall Councell of Ephesus repeated and allowed and the fift generall Councâ—…ll of Constantinople afterwards confirmed 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Christ rose to life the third day hauing spoiled hades hell So Ierom Propterea illuc in infernum descendit vt Electos suos exinde eijceret Diabolum ligaret Christ descended to hell for this cause that he might clâ—…ere his Elect thence and binde the diuell This end of Christes deâ—…cending to hell and hades to deliuer not only the dead but the liuing from thence the Fathers Greeke and Latine euery where confesse The Christians in Tertullian say as I haue formerly proued notwithstanding your idle exceptions In hoc Christus inferòs adijt ne nos adiremus Christ to this end went to hell that we should not come thither Athanasins Christ descending to hades 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 brought vs backe Nostram detentionem relaxans loosing our detention there He speaketh of himselfe and others then liuing which weâ—…e not in hades but must haue gone thither if Christ had not freed them from comming there For of the soules departed he sayth In the soule of him that was God the power of death was loosed his raising from hades was performed 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and declared to the soules deceased Hilarie Christes dèscent to hell salus nostra est is our salâ—…ation So Nazianzen 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Thou wilt deliuer all from hades being only free thy selfe As Ierom likewise sayth Liberauit omnes Dominus quando anima eius descendit in infernum The Lord deliuered all when his soule descended into hell meaning all Christes Elect both liuing and dead So Fulgentius expresseth this point As dying for vs Christ made vs all to die with him so loosing the sorrowes of hell omnes fideles ab ijsdem doloribus liberauit he deliuered all the faithfull from the same feares and sorrowes Which Ambrose calleth mankinde Descendens ad inferos genus humanum liberauit Christ descending to hell deliuered thence mankind With these S. Austen agreeth and sayth Ideo ille vsque ad infernum peruenit ne nos maneremus in infernâ—… Therefore Christ went euen vnto hell that we should not remaine in hell Austen knowing this end of Christes descending to hell why should he not say Christ went thither to deliuer those quos esse soluendos occultá nobis suá iustitia iudicabat whom in his iustice secret to vs he thought fit to be deliuered Since then there are so sufficient causes acknowledged by the Fathers and by Austen himselfe of Christes descent to hell which you can not refute what reason hath it that his maine opinion of Christes spoiling hades and hell approued by so many Fathers and by Councels prouinciall and generall should be false though in the maner thereof he did somewhat varie from the rest which yet I neither do nor need grant if we take his owne exposition elswhere that there they were not but because such were their deserts that there they had beene vnlesse they had beene holpen they are rightly sayd to be deliuered from thence whither they were not suffered to come by Christ their deliuerer As for Austens opposing against this our sense of Hades saying In Grac â linguâ origo nominis quo
may doe well to leaue this outfacing Scriptures and Fathers it may seeme a shift for a time but it will end with your shame By the whole text it is euident Peter had no reason nor purpose to speake to the Iewes of Christes soule being in hell If you may be iudge Peter shall say nothing but what hitteth your hand right It is more then plain by the whole purport of Peters speech that he ment to prooue Christ to be raised vp as Lord of all his enemies and Sauiour of all that obey him To rise simply from death was not sufficient to shew the eternitie and soueraigntie of Christs kingdome but he must be raised as the only Lord that should sit on Dauids throne and haue all things in heauen earth and hell subiected vnto him From our enemies if hee could not deliuer vs he could be no Sauiour of ours he must therefore tread them all vnder his feete when he rose from death before we could hope to be freed from them by his force And to this end Peter expresly maketh mention that God scattered the sorrowes of death and hell before him when he raised him vp that all the faithfull might be assured as Christ conquered and destroied the diuell in his owne person when he rose from the graue so he could and would doe the like for all his members by freeing them from the power of Hades and conforming them to his death and resurrection This God had promised to his people by his Prophet saying I will redeeme them from the hand of hell I will deliuer them from death O death I will be thy death O hell I will be thy destruction Repentance is hid from mine eies This Dauid foretold the Messias should performe in that his soule should not be forsaken that is left destitute of power or honour no not in hell Of this deliuerance from their enemies and from the handes of all that hated them spake the Prophets that were from the beginning of the worlde This was the oath that God sware to Abraham that they being deliuered out of the handes of their enimies should serue him without feare of sinne death or hell This the Iewes beleeued and expected in the Messias and therefore neither were they I meane the elect among them so ignorant vnbeleeuing and stubborne as you pretend three thousand being conuerted with this one Sermon neither was this so strange and vncouth a thing as you imagine being so often promised and prophesied vnto them Neither did Peter intend onely Christes resurrection as you suppose his chiefe scope being to shew them the strength and height of Christs heauenly kingdome And where you flourish that this was not subiect to sense and without all example of the like in the whole law and namely no figure foreshewing any such thing these be obiections meeter for perfidious Iewes then for those that would seeme to be beleeuers How many points of faith are not subiect to sense Christes sitting at the right hande of God in glorie will you not beleeue because it is not subiect to sense and without an example of the like and no figure foreshadowing any such matter Of Christes ascending to heauen and his returne to iudge the quicke and the dead haue you any examples or figures in the whole law and yet it is no such hard matter to proportion our deliuerance from hell and Satan to the bondage of Israell in Egypt and the ouerwhelming of Pharoh and all his host in the bottom of the redde sea The like might be said of Sampsons death who being weake and bound slew all his enemies of Dauid and Goliah of Daniell in the Lyons denne without harme of Ionas lying in the Whales bellie and such like which though in all things they match not Christs conquest ouer Satan and the destruction of him and his kingdome as no figures can do yet are they resemblances of that which you so much dissemble Howbeit as I said of Christes birth buriall descending to Hades rising ascending sitting in heauen and comming to iudge the law did not yeeld any expresse and visible figures as it did of his death and sacrifice We haue seene that Hades hath no such meaning in the Acts which yet is the only place whereon you build This were sufficient to end this argument but yet it shall be good to trie whether any where hades properly signifieth hell Verily it doth so signifie no where at all in the Scriptures Yet I graunt it is and ought to be translated hell in two places Matth. 16. v. 18. Luk. 16. v. 23. not that the word it selfe doth necessarily signifie hell but because the circumstances heere doe require that meaning as the fittest and best for these particular purposes We haue seene you beate your braines about Hades to make it any thing rather then tha tindeed it is both by the generall opinion of all Pagan Poets and by the constant assertion of all the Greeke Fathers We haue also seene you turne winde your selfe you know not whither sometimes to haue it the place for soules departed this world sometimes the state of such soules sometimes the power of death and sometimes the priuation of this life and so to crosse and controle your owne conceits that you could not tell where to set foote without falling Now as he that is blinde maketh no difference betwixt day and night no more doth your wilfull yet witlesse imagination perceaue any distance betwixt trueth and falshood And hauing held your owne so well that no shifting or shuffling can make you ashamed you will now proceed to a farder triall of other texts of Scriptures to see whether you can outface them with your fansies and figures as you haue done them that be already ouerpast I make no doubt but if you may sit sole Iudge in your owne cause you will quickly pronounce for your selfe but if you must prooue as well as pronounce you will make as many errors in your proceedings as there be holes in a sieue Howbeit you grant that in two places of the new Testament Hades is and ought to be translated hell not for that the word of it self doth so necessarily signifie but because the circumstances require that meaning Which is as much as if you said there are two places in the new Testament where hades is must be taken for hel neither can you with all your sleights shifts auoid the same the circumstances of the text so euidently demonstrate the Euangelists tooke hades for hell This by your leaue is some preiudice to your cause and a bridle to your boldnesse that the holy Ghost doth twice in the Gospels by your owne confession vse hades for hell and why he doth not vse it in that sense in other places there is no impediment but your proud will and waste wordes Saint Luke is so cleere as no exception can be taken to it that Hades is the
on this place maketh an exact difference betwixt death and Hades for that Hades containeth soules and deadbodies where the Latin in both places hath death and no more The Latin Fathers you will say doe all follow the old Latin translator and he placeth the word sting last as you do There is no one place in the new Testament that hath receiued more varietie of translating and ordering then this Tertullian citeth it thrice in one booke after this sort Vbi est mors aculeus tuus vbi est mors aculeus Where is thy sting ó death Where is thy strife ô death reading 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 strife for victorie Cyprian citeth it in the same order and words as Tertullian doth Ambrose returneth neerer to the Greeke and saith vbiest mors stimulus tuus vbi est mors victoria tua ô death where is thy sting ô death where is thy victorie euen as the interpreter of Ireneaus doth though he inuert that order in an other place and follow the Septuagint which Ierom and other of the Latin Fathers also doe And least you should thinke as you doe that the old translator who very scrupulously keepeth the word Infernum for Hades through out the Bible did heere translate it by death you shall see that Eusebius lighted on a Greeke copie where the word Thanatos death was twice repeated and the parts changed as they stand in the Latine 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ô death where is thy victorie ô death where is thy sting Elsewhere the same Author keepeth the word death twice but altereth the order 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ô death where is thy sting ô death where is thy victorie In this diuersitie of reading and relating the Apostles wordes it is eche mans duetie not to runne which way he will though perhaps he may bring some one president for his purpose but to hold that for the true and Authenticke text to which most copies and writers agree And therefore since your exposition of hades death to be Synonymas dependeth vpon your priuate changing the order of the apostles words I see no need to make any answere to it specially when as the Latin translator might and no doubt did light on such a copie as Eusebius did which had the word Thanatos death twice in that place Otherwise it could not be that he who was ouer diligent in all other places would be so negligent in this A farder answere to the frame of your wordes as you haue placed them if any man for his satisfaction would receiue the name of death which compriseth both temporall and eternall death and by sinne gaâ—… the victorie of our first parents but that the elect by Christ haue againe recouered the victorie ouer all sorts of death giueth answeare enough For sinne which the Apostle heere calleth the sting of death did not onely sting Adam and his ofspring with the death of the body but also with the death of the soule the wages of sinne being death in all parts of man and in all places of his abode and therefore sinne of his owne nature and force till it be pardoned by Christ is the sting no lesse of hell as in all the wicked then of bodily death as in all the Saints And heere by the way the Reader may obserue that for aduantage you are content to make bodily death in the Saints the sting of sinne which I trust is as much as the punishment of sinne since it stingeth vnto death The graue of the wicked is not to be named or reckned hell properly Whom doth the Apostle make to speake in that place the godly who haue the victorie ouer sinne hell and death or the wicked ouer whom those three get the conquest since the wicked doe not rise from death to life as the Saints doe but their bodides rising out of one pit fall into a farre worse which is the bottomlesse pit of eternall death damnation Hades is aduersary to the resurrection But hell heere would not be aduersary to the resurrection Therefore hades heere is not hell no not to the wicked Doth the Apostle dispute heere of the resurrection of the wicked to death euerlasting or of the Saints to celestiall blisse and glory though it be true that the bodies of the reprobate shall rise vp from the earth where they rested and be cast with their soules into euerlasting fire yet the Apostle heere debateth and prooueth the raising vp of Christs members to beare the image of the heauenly Adam and to haue death swallowed vp in victory Looke on the Apostles reasons and comparisons in this whole chapter and if any one of them naturall or theologicall agree to the resurrection of the wicked then let the Reader thinke you haue some vnderstanding of this place which now is vtterly none If Christ be not risen your faith is in vaine saith Paul and you are yet in your sinnes As in Adam all died so in Christ all shal be quickened euery one in his order Christs as the first fruits then those that are Christs at his comming There is one glory of the Sunne another of the Moone and another of the Starres So also shal be the resurrection of the dead The body is sowen in corruption dishonor and weakenesse it shall rise in incorruption in glory in power When this corruptible hath put on incorruption and this mortall hath put on immortalitie then shal be performed that which is written Death is swallowed vp in victory and the Saints shall haue iust cause to say ô death where is thy sting ô hades hell where is thy victory Thanks be to God which hath giuen vs victory through our Lord Iesus Christ. How farre are these things from all communion of the wicked though hell at that day shal be increased and aduanced as you call it with the bodies of all the wicked yet may the godly Saints of whom the Apostle speaketh most iustly reioice against hell and death as being now swallowed vp in victory that is vtterly defeated of all force to kill the body any more or to stay the soule any longer by meanes of death from her crowne of glory For the victory which God will giue vs through Christ our Lord against hell and death is not yet full till our soules and bodies be brought to eternall blisse And were it possible which is not that the soules of the Saints could for euer enioie the rest and blisse which now they haue without their bodies euen in this want of one halfe Satan should still haue some victory ouer them that is ouer their bodies though not ouer their soules Wherefore the victory is then full when both parts of man are freed from all things that hinder their heauenly inheritance And this the best interpreters confesse Peter Martyr Interim videas ordine quodam nostros iâ—…micos
it It is a plaine true rule in mine opinion that the Euangelists and Apostles euery where by Hades intended hell and none of your wandring or stragling fansies Besides the Greeke Fathers with one consent vse Hades after the direction of the Canonicall writers for a place of darknesse vnder the earth prouided to receaue and detaine the Soules of men And in this sense neither the Scriptures nor the Fathers departed much from the auncient and true vse of the word amongst heathen and prophane Authors sauing that the Pagans made it common to the Soules of iust and vniust which the Scriptures neuer doe and the Fathers vtterly refuse after Christs Resurrection whatsoeuer they doe before Since then Hades by the manifest exposition of Saint Luke in his Gospell is the place of torment where the wicked after death are punished and the same Euangelist expresseth Dauids meaning to be this that Christs Soule after death was not left or forsaken in Hades what cause or reason hath any man to denie that Christ dying descended to hell there to spoyle powers and principalities and thence to leade Captiuitie Captiue that as he ascended to the highest heauens there to sit superiour to all the Elect Angels so he first descended to the bottomlesse deepe there to subiect the Reprobate Angels vnto his humane nature and to dissolue the power and sorrowes of hell of which it was impossible he should be held Here we must consider a maine obiection of yours euen those words of our common Creed he descended into hell originally it is he descended into Hades and in truth this is all you haue to alleadge for your opinion but I answere two waies first admitting then denying the Authoritie of these words in our common Creede You haue seene by this time what I haue to alleadge for that which I defend may besafely conceiued of the Creed The words themselues he descended to Hades haue euident warrant in the holy Scriptures and Peter exactly concludeth out of Dauids words that Christs Soule was not left in Hades What Hades is with S. Luke the writer of the Acts we likewise haue seene It is euen the place where the wicked are tormented after death Put these together and tell me what they want of Christes descending into hell before he rose from the dead The words in English he descended into hell are confirmed by the publike authoritie of this Realme as well in the Booke of common praier as in the Articles of Religion agreed on by the Conuocation and ratified by Act of Parliament So that all your euasions elusions of the priuation condition and dominion of death to be ment thereby are vtterly reiected and condemned by generall and full consent of Prince Pastours people within this Realme and Christs descent to hell after death hath beene constantly and continually professed and beleeued in the Church of England euer since the Gospell was here established What you haue said against it I leaue to the Readers wise and indifferent iudgement who wil easily tell you you must bring better sluffe then either phrases or fansies before the common Creede may be thus reiected and despised You enioyne vs three Rules to be exactly and precisely kept in the expounding of these words Namely 1. distinction of Matter 2. consequence of order 3. proprietie of words Might not those godly men thinke you misse in some such circumstances although the Scripture cannot The first compilers of the Creede meaning shortly orderly and plainly to deliuer the summe of the Christian faith as touching the three persons in Trinitie and the chiefest blessings which God bestoweth on his Church in this life and the next by Iesus Christ our Lord might not with any discretion in so briefe and compendious assume of Christian Religon proposed to the simple and vulgar sort of all ages and sexes vse either any needlesse repetition disordered confusion or obscure inuolution of things requisite to our Saluation To these Rules agree all that haue expounded the Creede in the Church of Christ to this very day saue your selfe and such as haue opened you the gap to these innouations And these Rules allowed do cleane cast your exposition out of doores For where it is most plainly said that Christ died and was buried which words no plow-man woman nor child of reasonable yeeres can mistake you after Christs buriall come in with a darke and figuratiue phrase of descending to Hades which in effect you confesse is no more but what was said before in knowen and open speech that Christ died And this obscure and strange circumlocution of death you will haue to be an Article of your faith as if euery Christian creature were bound vpon danger of his saluation to vnderstand what Sheol or Hades doth signifie in the Greeke and Hebrew Tongues which is a position meete for such a Diuine as you are Your exposition therefore is repugnant to all three Rules For it is a superfluous vnorderly enigmaticall iteration of that which was before expressed in due place with as plaine and easie wordes as any might be spoken by the tongue of man Now with what Arguments you or any man liuing Hu. Bro. not excepted can prooue that Hebrew or Greeke phrases are Articles of Religion and must be conceaued and beleeued of all men before they can be saued as yet I doe not vnderstand And this is the miserie of your cause that not onely you haue no word in Latine English nor in any tongue else answerable to your Sheol or Hades but when you come to lay open your owne phrases the exposition is more ridiculous then the Translation For by Christs descending to Hades which you call the power dominion and kingdome of death you meane no more but that Christs Soule seuered from his Body went to heauen to the rest of the blessed Soules there And here I report me to him that will vouchsafe to read your 196. 197. pages whether you haue any thing there but store of phrases extending intending enlarging amplifying the name power and dominion of death which when all is done and said amounteth to this much that Christes soule seuered by death from his body submitted it selfe to the base and low condition of the dead by taking the paines to goe to heauen to the rest of the Saints there This is all in effect that your Periphrasis and Emphasis moriendi doe containe and the great fall or whole casting downe of Christes person which you so Rhetorically set out with termes of the broadest and longest size hath nothing in it but only this that his soule after death which dissolued his person ascended to the societie of the blessed soules in heauen The rest is your emphaticall and paraphrasticall vanitie swelling with wordes and shrinking in sense which needeth none other refutation but sober obseruation that when two sides are spent nothing is said but you are where you began For would you not varie so many phrases
mortall and miserable life in this world but to be conformed to his glorious body that is to incorruption and immortality g Thus I vnderstand your Thaddeus also Athanasius in his Creed as it seemeth most reasonably and necessarily because they expresse neither his death nor his buriall at all in any other words saue these he descended to hades You runne so fast on your owne conceits that you see not what you passe by Hath Thaddeus no words touching Christs death what make you then of these scant a line before 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 how Christ humbled himselfe and died And though the Creed prouided for the simpler sort distinguisheth Christs crucifying death buriall and descent to hell yet what need is there that the learned euery time they talke of Christs crosse or death should number all these seuerally and orderly as they stand in the Creed crucifying is enough to note his death for they crucified him vnto death Christs buriall had in it no more but the certainty of his death and by Gods prouidence the vigilancâ—…e of his enemies that his body should not be thought to be stolen away by his owne Disciples Other moment or matter of our redemption there was none in Christs buriall The goodly words with which you would feed vs that in the graue he came vnder the power strength dominion and kingdome of death are rather variations for a nouice then any points of sensible doctrine for a diuine So that Athanasius expressing Christs suffering for our saluation his descending to hades and rising the third day from the dead fully compriseth all the principall works which Christ performed for our saluation from his crosse to his resurrection Now what Athanasius meaneth by hades since his works are extant in Greeke we shall not need to depend on your partiall coniectures We haue many plaine and perspicuous places which deliuer his sense and meaning vnto vs. I haue shewed before which I must not so often repeat that Athanasius maketh two places of condemnation whither man after death was adiudged for sinne 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the graue and hades And of Christs body and soule he directly saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The bodie of Christ went to the graue the soule to hades these places being diuided with a great distance and the graue receauing the presence of his body for there was his body present and hades receiuing his humane spirit Thinke you this to be plaine enough that Christs descent to hades was not his buriall where his body lay but the going of his soule to hades whither man was condemned for sinne and which Athanasius saith The Diuell kept as the onely place of his strength The enemie saith he fallen from heauen remoued from the earth expelled from the ayre 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 euery where vanquished determined if he could to keepe hades safe For this place was yet left vnto him But as soone as Christ died the world wanted the light of her Sunne the Vaile of the temple rent the earth trembled the Rocks did cleaue in sunder 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and the souldiers together with the keepers of Hades did shake for feare 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 And the Diuell thiâ—…ing to carry Christ to hades was himselfe throwen out of hades 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 For it was not long after but Christ loosed the sorrowes or paines of hades Athanasius then without peraduentures taketh hades for hell and Christs descent thither in soule to worke the subuersion of Satans kingdome and deliuerance of all his elect thence were they liuing dead or yet vnborne Your seeking to peruert this reason because the auncient Creedes want sundry other Articles which now are in our Creede is to no purpose For so much as they all do euermore intend to set downe perfectly the summe of Christs accomplished Redemption and mediation at the least Not any of those his maine workes are in them omitted If your pride were not greater then your skill we should haue a great deale lesse prating from you How shall the Reader beleeue your report of Fathers and their meanings when you neuer saw so much as the Creedes of the auncient Councels and yet pronounce so boldly of them as if you had perused them all but yesterday The great Nicene Creede maketh no mention of Christs death or buriall but saith He suffered and rose the third day The first generall Councell of Constantinople whose Creede was after vsed in the Church Seruice saith Christ suffered and was bâ—…ied and rose the third day omitting his crucifixion and death The great Councell of Aphrica and the generall Councell of Ephesus concurre with the Nicene and say he suffered and rose the third day What truth then is there in your words where you say they all doe euermore intend perfectly to set downe the Summe of Christs Redemption for vs not any of those his maine works are in them omitted Is the death of Christ none of his maine works for our Redemption finde you now that his buriall may be omitted and yet the Creede not be imperfect These things good Sir are implyed as consequent or antecedent to the parts expressed For if Christ did rise the third day he rose from the Graue where he had lien three daies and buried he was not before he was dead As also he rose not but from the dead Wherefore in his resurrection are both his death and his buriall comprised Besides he suffered vnto death Which things were all plainly proposed to the simple in their Creede called Aposto like but not in the Creedes concluded by the learned Pastours in their Councels The same course kept the Greeke and Latin Fathers sometimes expressing Christs death buriall and descent to hell sometimes omitting some of them as the cause required Epiphanius saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Christ saith he speaking of the things as they were done is crucified buried he descended to the places vnder the earth in his Deitie and in his soule he leadeth Captiuitie Captiue and riseth the third day Vigilius Constat Dominum nostrum Iesum Christum sexta feria crucifixum ipsa die ad Infernum descendisse ipsa die in sepulâ—…hris iacuisse ipsa die Latroni dixisse hodie mecum eris in Paradiso It is certaine that our Lord Iesus Christ was crucified on the sixt day and that day descended to hell that day lay in the graue and that day said to the Theise This day shalt thou be with me in Paradise And declaring how this was verified in Christ ergo dicimuâ—… Dominum iacuisse in sepulchro sed in sola carne Dominum descendisse ad infernum sed in sola anima Then we say that the Lord lay in his graue but with his Body alone and descended to hell but with his Soule alone without his Body Howbeit to speake plainly your Thaddeus whom
Satans kingdome at his pleasure Now had not those Infernall powers been subiected to the Soule of Christ after death how should it haue appeared that his manhood not his godhead had the conquest ouer Satans strongest holds and that the keves of death and hell were resigned vnto him for since the Scripture beareth witnesse that his Soule was not for saken in hell that is not there left destitute of his diuine power glory what resistance could be made that he should not returne thence the Lord and Ruler of all his enemies whereof hell and Satan were the chiefest His godhead then was the giuer but his manhoode was the receauer of this power and preâ—…minence ouer hell Satan that they for euer should stoupe to him and see both what wrong they did him and what vengeance was heaped on them as also how righteous mans redemption was by the Crosse and death of the Sonne of God Lastly why did not the presence of his flesh in the graue keepe ours that it should not come there or at least that it should neuer putrifie nor rot as his flesh did not Euen because such was Gods will it should not God by his sentence pronounced on Adam and his ofspring adiudged them to returne to dust from which Christ shall raise them at the last day and not before And from dust to restore them sheweth greater power in Christ then to preserue them from dust This therefore verifieth the iustice and magnifieth the power of God and for you to aske why it might not be aswell otherwise as so is to enter more saucely then wisely into those things which you should religiously and faithfully beleeue And where you say all these sequels are as good and as liâ—…ly as my assertion you shew your accustomed boldnesse if not haughtinesse that condemne so many learned and auncient fathers for plaine fooles in not seeing what â—…urd consequences depended on their assertion How beit in the midst of your pride you shew little wit that all this while you can light on none other reason of Christes descent to hell but onely this that we should neuer come there This indeed was one of the causes euen to secure vs by his conquest that hee hath the keyes of death and hell and therefore we shall not need to feare either since both are wholy subiected and submitted to his power though he stay the time prefixed by his father when we shall be partakers of his victorie ouer death at the end of the world as we are ouer hell at our departing hence assuring vs in this life by faith in him that we neede not feare either death or hell both which he hath conquered I made this argument in my former Treatise that Christes descending into hell if euer he did so could not be iudged any part of his exaltation or glorification To which your reply is I know not whether more strange or skornefull But you resolue that these words hee descended to hell importeth his exaltation and triumph This argument was drawen from your imagination taking vpon you to dispose of the parts of the Creede as best pleased you which because I reiected as wanting all warrant besides your owne note booke you interpret it to be a strange and skornefull answere Howbeit there is no strangenesse in mine answere but to him that neuer peeped farder then in his owne shell The Fathers with one consent referre that clause to Christs Conquest ouer hell Christ had power saith Athanasius in the graue to shew incorruption and in his descent to Hades hell to dissolue death and to proclaime to all resurrection Cyprian When in Christs presence hell being broken open captiuitie was captiuated his conquering soule presented to the sight of his Father returned to her bodie without delay Epiphanius Christ was crucified buried he descended to hell in his Deitie and his soule he tooke captiuitie captiue and rose the third day with his holy bodie That he was free among the dead signifieth hell had no power ouer him but that of his owne accord he descended to heli with his soule because it was impossible he should be held of it So Austen Reddunt Inferna victorem Hell restored him a conquerer and whiles his bodie lay in the graue his soule triumphed ouer hell The Councels prouinciall and generall do the like Christ descended to hell deuicto mortis imperio and subduing the kingdome of death rose the third day Euen as the generall Councels of Ephesus and Constantinople say Yea the later writers as Innocentius Durandus and others ioyne this clause with Christs resurrection and make them both but one Article of our faith as descendit ad inferna tertia die resurrexit he descended to hell and rose the third day they set for the fift Article of the Creede euen as that auncient writer among Saint Austens workes did before them So that neither Elder nor later writers ioyne with you in this conceit of yours that Christes descent to hell was the lowest part of his humiliation they directly professe it to be the first part of his exaltation and a preamble to his resurrection And where you thinke it much that his descending should belong to his exaltation not the place but the purpose of his descent maketh that alteration The Scripture saith The Lord himselfe shall descend from heauen with a shoute and with the trumpet of God when he shall come to iudge the quicke and dead and yet that descent shall be the greatest part of his glorie You skoffe at me for the like as if I had said his descending was ascending and heauen was Hell But herein you affirmevntruely First I say though his soule leauing his bodie ascended yet this is not meant by that phrase he descended to Hades Secondly I neuer sayd that Hades signified heauen although some in Hades are in heauen Thirdly much lesse did I euer say that hell is heauen The interpretation which you made of the Article Christ descended to hell I sayd had none other matter of faith in it except you thought the Church in her Creede went to varying of phrases but that Christs soule ascended to heauen For where Hades in the Creede must signifie not a priuation nor a generall and indefinite condition as if Christ went some whither yet no man knew whither but a determined place whither Christs soule after death repaired that place of force must be heauen or hell And since by no meanes you will haue Christs soule descend to hell as the whole Church hath hitherto receaued and beleeued you must acknowledge the meaning of that Article to be that Christs soule ascended to heauen and so whether you will or no if that be the effect and intent of those wordes in the Creede descending must be taken for ascending and hell for heauen This is not meant you say by that phrase It is one of
priuatiâ—…e condition of death they wâ—…l â—…ile at your presumptuous folly If it be a matter of faith it â—… no phrase if we must beleeue as they teach that Christ after his death and buâ—…all deâ—…cended to hell you must shew vs some other hell to which Christ descended after death or els I conclude that the Lawes of this Land bind all men to beleeue and professe that Christ descended to that hell which the Scriptures acknowledge and not â—…hich your roling concâ—…its and totterâ—…ng tonguâ—… would establish against the warrant and word of God whose only will should be the line whose only trueth should be the guide whose only praise should be the end of all our professions and actions THE TABLE SERVING for their vse that are desirous with more ease to finde out the speciall contents of this booke as they are handled in their seuerall places A A Brahams bosom pag. 552 the place therof vnknowen 656 Aâ—…yssus in the Newe Testamenâ—… is hell 6â—…9 Aâ—…sed iâ—…nocents and penitâ—…nts â—…re not though hanged on a tree 238 Châ—…t was noâ—… Aâ—…sed how great soeuer his paines weâ—… 164. 165 S. Auâ—…s iâ—…dgement how Châ—…ist was accursed 241 Men câ—…n not be truly blâ—…ssed and accursâ—…d 253 Thâ—…t is â—…ccâ—…ed whâ—…ch God hateth 257 A sacâ—…ifice for sinne is not acâ—…ursed but accepted of God 258 Adam sinned aswell by bodie as by soule 183. 184 Was punished for his sinne after Christ was promised 147 What God threatened to Adam if he sinned 177. 178 Aeternall death fâ—…r whom Christ might feare 484 Against aeâ—…rnall death as due to him Christ could not pâ—…ay 378. 379 Aeternally God doth not punish one for anothers â—…ault 336 Affections are pâ—…infull to the soule 4â—…9 make sensible alterations in the heart 193. 194 Good affections of loue and zeale are not painfull 26 Euill affections are punishments of sinne 31 Inward affections make outward impressions in the heart 193 The heart is the seat of mans affections and actions  Christ couâ—…d represse and encrease his affections as he saw cause 400 The Aâ—…xe cleaueth to the Verbe and not to the Noune 216 Afflâ—…ctions of the godly are moderated punishmeÌ„ts 9. 10. 11. 17. manifest Gods displeasure against sinne 14â—… Agony what it is 339 Tâ—…e paines of hell were not the cause of Christs agony 58. 59 The causes that might be of Christs agony in the â—…ardeÌ„ 9â—… they crossâ—… not one another 97 I diâ—… not resolue what was the cause of Christs agony  The precise cause of Christs agony is not reuealed in the Scriptures 338. 346. though the general occasions may be coniectured 346 The parts of Christs agony 339 An agony proueth rather zeale then feare 339 Feare and sorrow the Scriptures witnesse in Christs agony 342 Submission to God and compassion on men the generall causes of Christs agony 347 The first cause coÌ„curring to Christs agony 347 The second 354 The third 370 The fourth 371 The fiâ—…th 375 The sixt 399 The Fathers determâ—…ne not the exact cause of Chrâ—…sts agony 371 How some vse the word agony 403 The different affâ—…ctions in Christs agony had different causes 558 Amazâ—…d neither Moses nor Paul were in their praâ—…ers 368 Christ was not amazed in his praier 369. 479 Christs praier prooueth hee was not then amazed 469 Christs â—…raier was no amaze 467 The Defender yeeldâ—…th perfect knowledge to Christ in his amazednes 481 Angry God was with our sinnes but not with Christs person 463 God is truely angry with his childrens sinnes 14 Angels sinned in their whole nature as men doe 197 Angels and good men receaued the bowing of the body 662 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifieth For as well as From. 501 The Apostle 1. Cor. 15. speaketh onely of the resurrection to glory 640. What his wordes Hâ—…b 5. inferre 498. 499. 500 Beleeuers may not iudge of the apostles words 89 More Apostles then twelue 651 The diuers reading and translating of the apostles words 1. Cor. 15. 55. 639 Astonishment what it is 441 What astonishment with feare is 468 Christ did not pray in astonishment 441 Why Christ might be somewhat astonished 468 Athanasius lewdly falsified by the Defender 275 taketh Hades for hell 569. 600. 601 What Athanasius speaketh of Adam the Defender referreth to Christ. 275 Augustine not ignorant of the Greeke tongue 608 his iudgement how Christ was accursed 241 keepeth the sense of Peters word Act. 2. 626 is grossely mistaken by the Defender 627  Christ tooke our naturall but not sinfull affections 330 Christ might beholde the power of Gods wrath and yet not feare the vengeance due to the wicked 348 Christ prayed for vs and against Satan 352 Christ knew the burden of our sinnes must lie on his shoulders 353 Christ and his members must drinke of one and the same cup. 353 Christ wept for the desolation of Ierusalem and sorowed for the reiection of the Iewes 354 Christ wept and sorrowed when he would 355 Christ grieued at the wilfulnesse of the Iewes 357 Christ sorowed that his death should be the ruine of the Iewes ibid. Christ chose the time and place to shew his vehement affections 358 Christ could not be content to be separated from God for vs. 367 Christ suffered the likenesse of our punishment not of our sinne 273 Christ was not ordained to be damned for vs. 364 Christ feared not death but his Fathers power 370 Christ might pray to haue the deepnes of his sorrowes comforted paines asswaged 374. 375 Christ might pray against the sting of death which he was to feele before he died 381 Christ could not pray against eternall death as due to him but vnto vs. 378. 379 Christ was most earnestly to aske what God had faithfully promised to graunt 384 Christ felt all our affections not of necessitie but according to his owne power and will 386 Christ shewed in the garden how mans soule strugleth with the panges of death 388 Christ was weake to comfort the weak but stronger then the strongest on the crosse 388. 390 Christ saw the whole danger from which hee should redeeme vs. 392. 393 Christ teacheth all his to feare Gods power as himselfe did in the garden 393. 394 Christ presented and dedicated his body in the garden which he sufâ—…ered on the crosse to be done to death 399 Christ died not in the garden 400 Christ could represse and increase his affections as he saw cause 400 Christ found no ioy in his paines but comfort in his hope 411 Christ emptied himselfe of glory not of grace 412 Christ citing the 1. vers of the 21. Psalme noteth the whole to appertaine to his passion 434 Christ was mortified in flesh but not in soule 507 Christ might passe from hell to heauen 550 Christ needed no long time to deâ—…cend to hel 551 Christ presented himselfe in euery place 564 Christ was to rise full conquerer of hell and death 668 How Christs death was like the godlies 7 How Christ laid downe his soule for
vs. 132. 133 How Christ shall the second time appeare without sinne 27 How far Christs sufferings must be extended 343 How Christs soule was in his Fathers hands 549 How Christ was in Paradise the day of his death 549 How Christ was like vs in all things sinne excepted 86 How Christ might feare and yet be freed from it 486. â—…87 How Christ loosed the sorrowes of death 624 How Christ must rise from the dead 627 What Christ discerned in all his sufferings 317 What Christ vndertooke for vs. 324 What things Christ inwardly beheld in the garden 387 Why Christ might dislike the death of the body 398 The ioynt sufferings of Christ in his bodily death most auaileable for our saluation 68 Euery thing in Christ was meritorious but not satisfactorie for sinne 179. 180 Both body and soule must suffer in Christ. 130. 131 Christs bodily death part of the punishment of our sinnes 11 By Christs corporal punishment we are freed from spirituall and eternall 222. 223 Christs blood could not be shed but by Satan and his instâ—…uments 231 Christs recompence for the wrong receaued at Satans hands 232 Christs suffering without the gate of the city 113. 114 Christs death was most iust with God in respect of his will to saue vs. 262. 263 Christs death not exacted as a debt but â—…eceaued as a voluntarie sacrifice 264 Christs doings aboue mans reason 310 The nature measure and purpose of Christs sufferings 332 The paines of Christs soule as of his body were equall to the strength of his patience 334 Christs faith did not faile in the sharpest of his paines 335 All Christs sufferings were righteous and holie 344. 438 Christs words Iohn 12. auouch not contraries 482. are expounded 483 Christs senses were not ouerwhelmed with feare and sorrow 477 Christs feares and sorrowes not like the reprobates 448. 449. 450 We must not increase Christs sufferings at our pleasure 478 Christs passió did not kil his soul but his body 528 Christs conquest secureth our soules seuered from our bodies 670 Christs Soule was not tormented with Gods immediat hand 34 Christs Soule suffered but died not for vs. 133 Christ soule suffered by all her powers but not the death of the Soule 136. 137. 140 Christs Soule chiefe patient in paine and agent in merit 179 Christs Soule could not merit if it wanted vnderstanding and will 480 Christs Soule in her greatest paines did most shew the life of patience and obedience to God 524 Christs Soule was passible but died not 533 Christs Soule was not fastned to hell three daies 551 Christs Soule was in glory before his Body 669 Christs Soule liuing by grace could no way be dead 523 Neither Scriptures nor Fathers vnderstâ—…nd Christs Soule by his Body 426. 427 Christs Soule was not crucified through infirmity 510 Christâ—… Soule was not vnder the dominion of death 650 What wee must beware in the sufferings of Christs Soule 536 Many writers teach the sufferings of Christs Soule without the paines of hell 536 Why Christs Soule and not his Body was to conquere hell 668 It is not against the faith that Christes Soule should conquere hell 622 Christs manâ—…ood praied for that with all humilitie which hiâ—… person by â—…ight might haue chalenged 378 Christâ—… manhood might feare the glory of Gods iudgement 380 Christs manhood miâ—…ht feare the power of Gods wrath against our sinnes which he was to beare 380 Christs manhood might feare the sting of death as horrible to mans nature 381 Christs manhoode was to conquere hell 667. though by power of his Godhead 670 Christs flesh found no ease in death though his Soule were full of hope 424 Christs flesh was weake though his Spirite was willing 508 Christs flâ—…sh could not putrifie 623 Christs praier in the Garden was well aduised 397 Christâ—… praier was no maze 4â—…7 Christs praier was not against his Fathers will 397. 465. 466. 470. 471. 472 Christs praier was full of faith 474. 475 Christs praier was with condition and reseruation of Gods will 382 Compassion and pittie are alwaies painfull 27 Compassion is affliction though it be a vertue 438 Christ more compassiâ—…nate then Moses or Paul 359 Christs complaint on the Crosse. 409 How many senses it may beare 418. 420. 421 The first sense 416 The second sense 418 The third sense 421 The fourth sense 430 The fift sense 432 The sixt sense 433 The Saints compâ—…aint in their afflications 418 The euent of Christs coâ—…plaint on the Crosse. 419 No shame for Christ to complaine on the Crosse as he did 420 Leo maketh Christs complaint on the Crosse an instruction no lamentation 432 We were conceaued in sin before we were quickned with life 173 Mans flesh is defiled in conception before the soule is created and infused 174. 175 None can be euerlastingly condemned for anothers fault 363 Christs conquest ouer hell and death 667 was ordered most to Satâ—…ns shame 669 Contradictions obiected by the Defender are easily answered 69 Contradictions in the Defender 320 A shamefull contradiction of the Defender 423 The words of the Creed examined 648 How long this clause of Christs descent to hell hath beene in the Creede 653. 654 Hades in the Creede muâ—…t signifie hell 649 Hell in the Creede is no new translation 652 The Creede continued from the Apostles times 664 Twelue parts of the Creede â—…64 What Crâ—…sse of Christ it was that Paul so much reoiyced in 73. 74 75 How the Fathers and new writers expound that place 76. 77 How farre the Crosse of Christ extendeth it selfe by the Scriptures 79 We reioyce in the effects of Christs Crosse. 81 Christ was not voâ—…de of all comfort on the Crossâ—… 410. 411 What comfort Christ had on the Crosse. 412 The death of the Crosse the greatest exâ—…anition of Christ. 433 Christs Soule was not Crucified through infirmitie 501 Figuratiuely the Soule may be said to be Crucified 80 What Cup Christ dranke of 373 What Christ meant by the houre and Cup of his Passion 443 Christ and his members must drinke of one and the same Cup. 353 What part of the Curse Christ bare for our sinnes 234. 235 Hanging on a tree was not the whole Curse of the Law 236 A double Curse of sinne 236 Two kindes oâ—… Câ—…rses in the Law 239 The bodily death which Châ—…ist suffered was the Curse which he sustained 240 Cursing and blâ—…ssing compared doe manifest each the other 249 What is true Cursing and blessing from God 250 How Christ was made a Curse for vs. 257 Christs death was a kinde of Curse 259 Christ vndertooke to satisfie but not to suffer our Curse 260 The Curse for sinne is triple 266 Cyprian wrested by the Defender 274 D D Amnation What paines are essentiall to it 37. 39 The horror of Gods iudgements not neere the paines of the Damned 227 The Godly in this life feele not the paines of the damned 320 Sharper paines are reserued for the damned then now they feele 334 Christ was not
no death of the Soule 519 The Fathers professe true fire to be in hell 46 The Fathers plainly remoue the death of Christs Soule from the worke of our redemption 330. 331 All Christs Feares were holy 215 Feare and sorrow in Christ were sufferings for sinne 345 Christs Feare in the Garden was religious 371 Christs â—…eare and sorrow were painfull but religious sufferings 372 What Feare and sorrow Christ was to yeelde vnto God when he offered the ransome of our sinnes 374 What things Christ might iustly and greatly feare in the Garden 380 â—…eare may be intellectâ—…ue or sensitiue 383 Christ might feare many thinges besides hell paines 385 Why Christ feared more then Mattyrs doe 395 Christ might iustly feare the pâ—…wer of Gods wrath 380 Figuratiuely the Soule may be said to be crucified 80 Fire in hell is not allegoâ—…icall 40. 41. 42. 43 The Fathers professe tâ—…ue fire to be in hell 46 It is possible that brimstone may bee mingled with fire in hell 47 The same fire punishâ—…th the wiâ—…ked both bâ—…fore and after iudgeâ—…ent 55 What fire did signifie in sacrifices 112. 113 What fire might note in the holocaust 116 How Christ was Forsaken on the crosse 409 How farre and wherein Christ was Forsaken are the things questioned 414 What forsaking could not be found in Christ 414 We were forsaken of God till Christ 〈◊〉 vs by his death 417 Christ neuer forsaken of hope and comfoâ—…t â—…7 God shewed by the present euent that he had not forsaken hâ—…s sâ—…nne 419 We stâ—…iue not for the word but for the sense and maner of forsaâ—…ing 431 G GEhenna was not vsed in speaking to the Gentiles 618 God can doc more then he will 23 Gods loue to Christ appeared euen in his death 20. 21 Gods purpose in the death and crosse of Christ. 154. 155. 156 God vseth meanes and instruments in punishing 33 God tempereth loue and iustice in punishing his elect 147. 255 God worketh good by euill 254 God is iust as well in forgiuing as in punishing sin 262 God was able to saue vs otherwise then by Christs death 287 God was the author of all Christes afflictions but not with his immediate hand 298. 299 God vieth his creatures to performe his iudgements 302 God is the principal agent in all our sufferings but not with his immediate hand 302 Gods hand worketh whatsoeuer meanes he vseth 300. 301 Gods loue to his sonne ouerswaied his hatred to our sinnes 268 Gods iustice in subiecting Satans kingdome to Christs manhood 230 The Gospell differeth much from the Law 264 How the Graue is aâ—… habitation for the godly 575 God would not haue our flesh as yet freed from the Graue 670 Christ was not Guilâ—…y of our sinne though he took our punishment on him 162. 163 The whole man is guilty of all sinne 185. 186 187. 208 Guilty stretcheth as well to the punishment as to the fact .266 A mediator not guilty of the sinne for which he doth mediate 276 H HAdes what it signifiâ—…th with the Greeke Fathers 589. 590. 591. 592. 593 Hades what it is with Chrylostom 589 Athâ—…nasius taketh Hades for hell 599. 6â—…0 Hades in Athanasius Creed is not the graue 659 Hades with Ignatius is not the graue 657 The soules of the godly are not in Hadâ—…s 602 Hades is a place of darkenesse 609 How Hades is vsed in the new Testament 629 Hades with new writers is the graue or hell 609. 610 611 Hades is a place vnder the earth 613 Hades an vnseene and darke place 618 Hades in the Creed must signifie hell 649 Hades is not the ignominie of the graue 651 Hades was first the name of the diuell 615 Hades is hell or the diuell in the new Testament 619 Hades is hell in the new Testament without any figure 621 Why Hades signifieth hell in the new Tâ—…stament 647 Hades with the Pagans was the place not the state of the dead 616 The whole created world is Hades with the Defâ—…nder 615 Hades in effect is nothing but death with the Defender 624 How 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and Inferi concurre in signification 579 How the Defender wauereth about Hades 619 How Hades is vsed in the Reuelation 642 How Hades shall be cast into hell fire 644 S. Luke maketh Hades a place of torment 621 What Hades Matth. 11. 23. is threatned to Capernaum 630 Many Greeke copies haue Act. 2. 24. the sorrowes of Hades 625 Hades in the Scriptures opposed to the highest heauens 635 Christ loosed the sorrowes of Hades 625. 626 The wall of Hades not broken but by Christ. 657 Hades hath not all the dead 646 Hades followeth after death 643 Hades taken for the rulers or persons in hell 647 The soules of the godly are not in Hades 602 Hanging on a tree was not the whole curse of the law 236 Hanging on the crosse a cursed kind of death 237 Innocents and penitents not truely accursed though Hanged on a tree 238 Hard speeches should rather bee qualified then strained to the highest 271 All affections make sensible alterations in the Heart 1â—…3 194 The heart is the seat of mans affections and actions 2â—…3 The Hâ—…art suggesting euill sinneth 311 The ioyes of Heauen are proper to the place 455 456 The sight of God in this life â—…uch differeth from the sight of his face in Heauen 456 The Saints of God had some sight of God in earth but not comparable to that in Heauen 460 The soules â—…re not yet in the same height of Heauen where Christ is 5â—…0 541 How many Heauens the Scriptures make 541. 542 The graces of God in earth are not the ioyes of Heauen 461 Why the Heauens are compared with hell in the Scriptures 634 God is not the immediate and principall inâ—…cter of Hell paines 2â—… 29 The sentence of the iudge containeth the essence of Hell paines 35 Christ suffered not the substance of hell paines 36 Reiection from Gods kingdome essentiall to Hell paines 37. 38 Malediction essentiall to Hell paines 38 Hell fire is not allegoricall 40. 41 42. 43. 49. 53 54 I neuer said Hell fire was materiall 44 The Fathers professe tâ—…ue fire to be in Hell 46 51. 52 So doe later Diuines 49. 50 It is possible that brimstone may be mingled with fire in Hell 47 Chaines there are in Hell though not of iron â—…7 Whether there be true fire in hel before the iudgment is not the question 54 Christ suffered not the essentiall part of hell paines 56 Hell paines not the cause of Christs agonie 58. 59 The sharpnesse of Hell paines 60 The foretast of iudgement in Hell is neither full finall perpetuall nor genâ—…rall 210 Positiue punishment now in Hell 214 The suffering of Hell paines no way necessarie to our saluation 220 Men may feare but not feele the truâ—… paines of hel in this life 320 The paines of hell are no naturall affections 383 Christ might feele somewhat extraordinarie yet not the paines of hell 391 The vehemencie of hell
paines passe the patience of Men and Angels 450 The true paines of hell are not felt in this life 451. 462 The true paines of hell are proper to the place 454. 455 The true paines of hell are aboue and against nature 464. 465 We must not reâ—…oyce in suffering helâ—… paines 441 A broken spirit is not the paines of hell 516 Christ brought vs backe from hell 607 No place for soules vnder earth but hell 614 It is not against the faith that Christs Soul should conquere hell 622 Christ must rise conquerer of death and hell 628 The Iewes were promised their Messias should conquere hell 628 All the names of hell prooue it to be in the earth 632 Hell is in the earth yet some diuels in the aire 633 Why the heauens are compared with hell in the Scriptures 634 Our victorie against death and hell not full till the last day 637 638 Christ â—…th the keyes of death and of hell 642. 643 Nothing but persons cast into hell 645 The Defender maketh three hells in steede of one 645 Christs spoâ—…ling of hell precedent to his resurrection 673 Hereticke alwaies vrged the same places that the Defender doth 425 What the Holocaust did signifie 111. 112 What â—…ire might note in the Holocaust 116 I. IMmediate What suffering is Immediate from â—… God 27. 32 God is not the Immediate and principall inflicter of hâ—…ll paines 2â—… 29 Christs soule was not tormented with Gods Immed aâ—…e hand 34 God can punish the soule by meanes without his Immediate hand 219 God the author of all Christs afflictions but not by his Immediate hand 298. 299 God is the principall agent in all our sufferings but not with his Immediate hand 302 How 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and Infers concurre in signification  What place Tertullia taketh Inferi to be 585. 586 Inferi are places and persons vnder the earth 5â—…7 Inferi are not now the place and state of good and bad deceased 588 Saint Austin taketh Inferi for hel and not for the state of the dead 198. 590 The soules of the godly are not in Inferi 602 Infernus with the latin fathers is more theÌ„ death 603 Inferi not found in the Scriptures in any good sense â—…04 Inferi no place for the godly after Christes resurrection 605 Infernus is not the place nor state of all soules deceased 606 Christ did not suffer paines truely Infinite 161 Christs Infirmitie was voluntarie 407 Christs Infirmitie was power 416 How all the kingdomes of the earth might bee shewed vnto Christ in an Instant 308. 309 Irenaeus did write in Greeke 584 Where Irenaeus thought Christs soule was after death 583. 584 The rule of Iustice suffereth the stronger to beare the burden of the weaker 292 Gods Iustice in subiecting Satans kingdome to Christs manhood 230 Gods Iustice might punish Christs bodie but not Christs soule with death 337 The Iudgement of God to which Christ submitted himselfe for our redemption 348 Gods Iudgement for our redemption concerneth Christ men and Angels 348 In this Iudgement God required of Christ satisfaction for the sinnes of men 349 K K 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 what it signifieth 625 Christ hath the Keyes of death and of hell 642. 643 Kindred goeth by blood and not by the soule 509 Our naturall Knowledge commeth by sense 196 The meanes of mans Knowledge 199 Our loue and ioy doe follow our Knowledge 462 L LEo maketh Christs words on the Crosse an instruction no lamentation 432 How Christ was like vs in all things sinne excepted 86. 324 Christ not like vs in any sinfull affections 322 How Christ was like vs in his sufferings 323 Christ not like vs in any want of grace or touch of sinne 326 To what lower parts of the earth Christ descended 554 What is ment by the lower parts of the earth 555 The lower earth is all one with the lower Sheol 556 The lower Shcol signifieth hell and not the graue 557. 558 The lower earth Ezechiel vseth for hell 561 The lower parts of the earth are hell 562 M MArtyrs and Malefactors haue a stronge conflict with death though we perceaue it noâ—… 389 The glory of Martyrs were not great if their paines were not great 390. 391 Martyrs find ioy and ease after death but not in death 301 Why Christ feared more then Martyrs doe 395 Christs senses might not be ouerwhelmed as Martyrs are 396 The manner of breathing out Christs Soule was miraculous 87. 88. 89. 90 The Fathers obserue that it was miraculous 91. 92. 93 So doe the new writers 94 Moses praier for the people examined 359 The purpose of Moses praier for the people 360 How Moses in his praier is excused from sin 365 Moses face did shine when he know it not 461 Moses was not amazed in his prayer 368 N THe name of nature in the graces of God and ioyes of heauen is a vaine distinction 461 There was no necessitie in our redemption but Christs will power and libertie 283 284. 285 The Fathers disclaime all necessitie in the death of Christ. 285 No necessitie in the death of Christ 286 Christs feare and agony came not from necessitie but from his humilitie and feruencie 339 Neither necessitie nor infirmitie could oppresse Christ. 405 New wâ—…iters teach the sufferings of Christs Soule without the paines of hell 536 New writers teach Christs descent to hell 546. 547 New writers obserue Christs manner of dying to haue beene miraculous 94 O OLeuians coniectures for his sense of Christs descent to Hades are but weake 631 P. PAines of this life Christ did beare but not of hell 217. 218 Christes Paines might be vnknowen and yet not the paines of hell 161 In outward Paines men perceiue and acknowledge Gods hand vpon them 170 Paines proper to the soule are not by and by the paines of hell 214 All Christs Paines were holy 215 More required in our ransome then onely Paines 216 We cannot iudge of other mens Paines 328. Excessiâ—…e Paine bringeth death 447 How Christ was in Paradise the day of his death 549 The Parable of the strong man bound and spoyled â—…74 Christes Patience was greater then any mans whatsoeuer his paines were 394 How Christs patience exceeded all mens 395 Christs patience at the highest before he complained on the crosse 418 Saâ—…nt Paul 1. Cor. 15. keepeth the true sense of the Prophet Osee. 641 Pauls wish for the Iewes considered 360 The time was when Paul so wished Ibid. If Paul spake of the time when he wrote his words were conditionall Ibid. What Paul meant when he wished to be separated from Christ for the Iewes 361. 362 How the Grecians expound Pauls words 361 How Paul in his wish was excused from sinne 365 Paul wished if it were possible or lawfull 366 Paul was not amazed in his prayer 368 The true sense of Pauls and Moses words Rom. 10. 567 568. Positiue punishment now in hell 214 No Positiue thing common to good and bad after death 581 Christ suffered not
to be our Suretie s Iob. 19. u Psal. 30. u Psal. 78. x Esa. 44. y Esâ—… 63. z Psal. 34. a Psal. 130. b Oâ—…e 14. c Hebr. 1. d Defenc. pag. 77. li. 34. e Hebr. 7. Hebr. 7. Christ a Surety to vs of the new Testament f Matth. 20. g Psal. 22. h Ephes. 1. i Defenc. pag. 78. li. 1. k Trea pa. 93. li. 6. 9. It is a most hainâ—…us error to subiect God to any bondage l Defenc. pag. 78. li. 11. Christ made himselfe vnder the law by loue when he was free from the Law and Lord of the Law m Matth 12. vers 8. n Matth 12. vers 6. o Galat. 3. p Defenc. pag. 78. li. 15. Thouâ—…h Christ â—…ay be called a voluntarie Suretiâ—… yâ—…t was he truely a mercifull Redeemer q Defenc. pa. 78. li. 23. Christ vnderâ—… to be our Redeemer 4â—…0 yeeres before he was made man r 1. Cor. 2. s â—…om 5. t Gaâ—…at 4. u 1. Tim 1. x Galat. 5. y Psal. 22. z Ioh. 8. a 1. Cor. 9. b Defenc. pag. 78. li. 26. The willing offer of the Sonne to be our Redeemer did induce the decree of the whole Trinitie c Gaâ—…at 4. d Rom. 5. e 1. Cor. 2. f Act. 20. Gods promise â—…ust not â—…e called â—…on â—…age Deâ—…nc paâ—…â—…8 li 29. The person of Christ could not be bound but his humane will was guâ—…ded by his diuine will h Luc. 17. i Ad Philâ—…mon v. 14. k Osâ—… 11. v. 4. There was no necessitie in our Redemption but Christs will power and libertie l Eph. 5. v. 25. m Philiâ—… 2. n Iohn 10. o Iohn 2. p Eph. 5 v 2. q August dâ—…fi de contra Manuâ—…eo cap. 26. r Idem in Psal. 87. Idem â—…n Iohannem tracta 1â—… t x 〈◊〉 y z a c Iâ—…em de fide 〈◊〉 2 cap 1 Idem â—…i 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 1â—… l m Iâ—…em in Psal. 87. n Idem Qâ—…st 13. de 〈◊〉 Arbitriâ—… o Damasâ—… Orthâ—…doxa fideâ—… li. 3. ca. 20. p Bernard ferâ—…a â—… 〈◊〉 paenosae q r Idem ibid. s Idemotid t Catechis anâ—… 1574. edit fo 66. u Fol. 67. x Fâ—…l 67. The Fathers disclaime all necessitie in the death of Christ. y â—…ph 5. â—… Defenc. pag. 78. li. 34. z Galâ—…t 2. Rom. 8. b Defenc. pag. 78. li 36. c Aâ—…gust de â—…de contrâ—… Manichees cap. 〈◊〉 d Cypriaâ—… de Passionâ—… Chrâ—…sti e Nazâ—…z 1. Epist. ad Clâ—…donium f Damascâ—… Or. thodâ—… fidei li. 3. cap. 8. g Bernard sâ—…per Cantic Sermâ—… 11. h Zanchiuâ—… in 2. cap. ad Philip i Caluinus iâ—… cap. 15. Ioannis vers 13. k The second Sermon of the Passion pa. 11. l Defenc. pag. 79. li. 4. m Panormâ—…tan râ—…brs de fide â—…ussoribus n Dâ—…gest li. 2. Tit. 11. si quis cautiâ—…nibus legâ—… qâ—…tiens n Dâ—…gest li. 2. Tit. 11. si quis cautiâ—…nibus legâ—… qâ—…tiens o Defenc. pâ—…g 79. h. 10. p Fol. 64. q e Ezech. 18. vers 20. f Defenc. pag. 79 li. 22. t Cyâ—…rian dâ—… Pass Christi u August in Psal. 21. x Leo de Passiâ—… Domin Sermâ—… 16. y Acts. 9. z Matth 25. a Luke 10. b Matth. 10. c 1 Sam 8. d Zachar. 2. e Damasc. Orâ—…ae sides li. 3. cap. 25. f Ibidem li. 4. cap. 19. g Cyprianâ—… de Passione The Defâ—…nder â—…pareth Christ â—…n want of comfort with the daâ—…ed h Psal. 16. i Heb. 12. k Defenc. pag. 11. li. 25. 27. l 2. Cor. 1. m Rom. â—… n 2. Tim 2. o Heb. 2. p Heb. 5. q Defâ—…nc pag. 79 li 28. I mislike not the naâ—… but the bondage of a Surety in Christ r Conclus â—…a 279. li. 34. s Defenc. pag. 79. li. 35. t Conâ—…lus pa. 279. li. 28. u Ibid. li. 25. x Galat. 3. A man may aâ—…scharge an others dobt and not be bound thereto The rule of Iustice suffereth the stronger to beare the burden of the weaker y Iohn 1. z Defenc. pa. 80. li. 7. Similitudes are not alwaies of things lawfull a 1. Thess. 5. b Luke 18. c Matth. 25. d Luke 16. e August Epist. 3. ad Voâ—…us f Marke 14. g Acts. 4. h Esa. 10. i Defenc. pag. 80. li. 28. k Trea. pa. 45 li. 9. l Co'oss 2. 12. m Vers. 13. n 14. o 15. p Ephes. 4. q Syriaca translat in vers 15. cap. 2. ad Co. â—…ss r 〈◊〉 de Trinitate â—… 1â—… r Hilarius de Trin tate li. 1. t Idem de Trinitate li. 1â—… u Idem li 9. x Ambros. de 〈◊〉 li. 3. ca. 2. y Pactaâ—… serm de Baptismâ—… z Epist. 5â—… de Agone Christi ca. 2. a August contra Faustum li. 16. ca. 19. b Zanchius de operibus Deo parte 1. li. â—… ca. 13. The diueâ—… tormented not Christs Soule on the Crosse. c Reuel 12. d Luk. 11. e Mâ—…k 3. f Leo de Passione Demiâ—… Serm. 14. g Defenc. pag. 80. li. 35. h Genes 3. i Defenc. pag. 81. li. 1. k Pag. 81. li 2. l Defenc. pag. 81 li. 4. * Defenc. pag. 81. li. 9. * 〈◊〉 b Defenc. pag 149. li. 7. c Ibid. li. 16. d Iohn 12. e Iohn 14. f Defenc. pag. 149. li. 20. g Act. 2. v. 34. h Irenaeus li. 5. ca. 31. i Iusâ—… 〈◊〉 75. k Tertullianus aduersus Marcionem li. 4. l Idem de aâ—…ima ca. 55. m Origen in Leâ—…t homil 7. n Hilarius in Psal. 2. o Ambros. de boâ—…o mortis ca. 10. p Chrysost. in 1. Epistolam ad Corinth homil 39. q Ibidem r August in Psal. 36. s Thâ—…dor in 11. ca. Epist. ad Hebreos t Oâ—…cume in 11. ca Epist. ad Hebreos u Andreaâ—… Câ—…sari in 〈◊〉 ca. 18. x Theophylact. in 11. ca. epist. ad Hebreos y Bernard in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Sanct. serm 3. z Luke 16. How many heauens the Scriptures make z Luke 16. How many heauens the Scriptures make z Luke 16. How many heauens the Scriptures make a 2. Coâ—… 12. ver 2. b 2. Coâ—… 12. ver 4. c Matt. 8. 13 d Matth 26. d Marke 14. e Genes 1. f Genes 22. g Iudae epist. vers 6. h Iob. 15. i Esa 14. k Reuel 21. s Psal 〈◊〉 m Esa. 63. n Iâ—…m 25. o 〈◊〉 â—…gs 8. p Psal. 148. q 〈◊〉 7. r Ephes. 4. s 〈◊〉 1. t A. 〈◊〉 de 〈◊〉 li. 〈◊〉 ca. 1. u Gâ—… 〈◊〉 1. x Reuel 6. y Reuel 7. z 2. Tim. 4. a 1. Pet. 1. b 1. Iohn 3. c Coloss 3. d M. atth 25. e Calâ—…us in 〈◊〉 f g Chrysost. 〈◊〉 28. in Epistolam ad 〈◊〉 h August de 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 12. ca. 9. li. 13. ca. â—… 〈◊〉 ad I 〈◊〉 ca. 108. i Caluinus 〈◊〉 li. 3. ca. 25. § 6. k Defenc. pag. 149. li. 23. l August 〈◊〉 99. m Ireneus li. 5. ca. 31. n Cyprian de pass Christi â—…ant carmâ—…â—…ie doâ—… resurrectioâ—… p Athanasius de humanitate Christi contra Aâ—…nos q Idem contra Aâ—…ian oratio 4. r Idem de
dull conceite or eger stomacke rather betrayed by your foolish rolling to so many what ifs then my reason any way refuted I alter you will say the order of it Though I spake then more shortly then now I doe because I had no leasure to stand so long thereon yet he that will Reade but the third part of that Section whence you take this shall finde the very same parts and words that now I vse there contained and expressed But I afterward defend the proposition with the condition annexed to bee simplie true When I saw your humour was so franticke that not vnderstanding my words you would presently pronounce them in the view of the whole Realme to be a notorious Paradoxe and impietie I bid you take your vttermost aduantage of my words and as they stoode though that were not my first intent they were sound and good and your impugning them was prophane and false I yet auouch the same For where the Scriptures teach no Redemption but by the death and bloud of Christ your other deuâ—…sed Redemptions by the death of the soule and paines of Hell I account no better then false and prophane And therefore if our soules be not that way redeemed which the Scriptures reueile which is by the death and bloud of Christ they are not redeemed at all And being not at all redeemed I would faine know by the best of your skill what benefit of Redemption our bodies shall or can haue more then the bodies of Infidels Yea set that redemption aside which the Scriptures attribute to the death and bloud of Christ and neither bodie nor soule can be saued but infidelity and the wages therof I meane damnation both of soule and bodie preuaile in all men So that you were not well in your wits when with such an heat and huffe you cried out What a Pradoxe is it yea what impietie But I must chuse whether I will speake this sophistically or absurdly you say Is it any sophistrie or absurditie to speake as the Spirit of God speaketh in the Scriptures Your MEERE bloud of Christ is indeed absurd Sophistrie for you imagine by that word that Christ shed his bloud for our sinnes without any meritorious action or passion of the soule concurring which in the Redeemer of the world was so impossible as nothing more If I speake otherwise than the Scriptures speake take your pleasure at it so you bring reason for it but whe I keepe my selfe within the compasse of their speech your aâ—…ouching that I speake Sophisticallie or absurdlie reprocheth the Scriptures whom I follow In either of those points which you impugne as that our soules are redeemed by the bloud of Christ and that our bodies haue not redemption in this life I haue the Scriptures plainly precedent before me and therefore except they speake sophistically or absurdly I in retaining their speech and sense can do neither The difference betwixt the deaths of the faithfull and infidels is a thing well known to me and approoued by me yet must the Apostles words stand true that in this life we haue not the Redemption of our bodies but we must waite for it till the time that all things be restored That Christ hath already purchased and obtained it for vs by his death and passion I make no doubt as also that we rest in hope assured of it but hope which is seene is not hope and though the soules of the Saints retaine a firme faith and full expectance of Gods promise for the raising and Redeeming of their bodies from corruption and in the meane time discerne and feele as well the comfort that is in the death of Gods elect as the great blessings and benefites that follow their death yet their bodies lying in dust haue no shew nor sense thereof much lesse haue they that which Paul calleth the Redemption of the body From which words Saint Austen collecteth very truely Si Redemptio corporis nostri secundum Apostolum expectatur profecto quod expectatur adhuc speratur nondum tenetur If the Redemption of our body by the Apostles doctrine must be wayted for that which is expected is still hoped for but not yet obtained Take then the Redemption of the body for the incorruption of the same as Paul doth whom in that point I followed and tell me what benefite of incorruption which is the word you so much storme at the bodies of the faithfull haue more then the bodies of infidels You range aside as your manner is to the ceasing of sinne in the godly and their resting from labours as also the entrance of their soules into heauen as if the bodies of the wicked did sinne in their graues or were tossed with troubles when they were dead and rotten or in the Saints your sight did not serue you to distinguish their soules from their bodies For when I say as Paul sayth their bodies haue not yet redemption you replie their soules after death haue an entrance into heauen Euen so when I say that the death of the bodie to the saints is a part of that wrath curse and punishment which God inflicted on all mankinde for their sinne in Adam as shall after God willing more largely appeare you oppose the benefits which God of his peculiar goodnesse towards his children hath reserued for them after they haue obediently and patiently submitted themselues to his diuine pleasure in bringing their bodies to corruption for the sinne that dwelleth in them And thus by your mangling of matters you confound in the godlie their soules with their bodies and in God himselfe his iustice against sinne with his mercy towards his owne You might haue learned of S. Austen rightly to seuer them as he doth though you crosse him in this as in most of the things that are in question betwixt vs. Quamuis bonis conferatur per mortem plurimum boni vnde nonnulli etiam de bono mortis congruenter disputaverunt tamen hinc quae praedicanda est nisi misericordia Dei quòd in bonos vsus conuertitur poena peccati Though much good come to the godlie by death whereupon some haue accordingly written of the benefits of death yet what els in this must we acknowledge but the mercie of God that the punishment of sinne is turned to good vses And so that ancient writer of the booke Hypognosticôn amongst S. Austens works Vt moriantur homines poena peccati est vt reuertantur ad vitam Domini miserantis est That men die is the punishment of their sinne that they returne to life againe is the Lords mercie Before you depart from this point that not the bloud of Christ nor his flesh without respect to the merit of his whole soule was the full price of redemption you will shew how sundrie of the ancient Fathers doe agree with you sufficiently in this matter though afterwards in my booke I seeme to bring them against you If