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A15733 An ansvvere to a popish pamphlet, of late newly forbished, and the second time printed, entituled: Certaine articles, or forcible reasons discouering the palpable absurdities, and most notorious errors of the Protestants religion. By Anthony Wotton Wotton, Anthony, 1561?-1626.; Wright, Thomas, d. 1624. Certaine articles or forcible reasons. 1605 (1605) STC 26002; ESTC S120304 112,048 194

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this answere both is false in regard of that it affirmes concerning our being out of Christ and also doth not satisfie the whole doubt For it shewes no reason why we may pray for the forgiuenesse of any other sinnes then those great ones So that either we must not craue pardon for smal transgressions or els must do it needlesly since they are already pardoned as long as we abide in the body of our sauiour Christ Wherefore I had rather rest vpon the former answere which is agreeable to the word of God and warrantable by true reason Article 2 Papist The Protestants are bound in conscience to auoyd all good workes Protestant If this Papist would haue avoyded all slaundering the world should not haue bin troubled with such absurd collections Papist Euery man is bound vpon paine of eternall damnation to auoide all deadly sinnes But fasting prayer almesdeeds and all good workes according Luther in after ar 31 32. 39. Calu. lib. 3. inst c. 11. ● 4. c. 14 §. 19. Mclarch locc tit de peccat Confess Augusti articl● 6. Rom. 6. 23. Isa 64. 6. to the Protestants religion are deadly sinnes Ergo According to the Protestants religion all men are bound vpon paine of eternall damnation to auoide fasting prayer Almesdeedes all good workes B. The Maior is manifest for the wages of deadly sinne is death Stipendium peccati mors D. The Minor is as euident for according to the Protestants religion and common exposition of this text of scripture Facti sumns vt immundi omnes nos tanquam pannus menstruat● omnes iustitiae nostr● Wee are made all vncleane and al our Iustices are like a stayned cloth That is as they say the best workes wee can do are infected with deadly synne and consequently deserue eternall damnation and therefore to be auoided I am not ignorant that some wranglers with some shifting euasions go about to answer this article forsooth that the staines and imperfections the sinnes and spots ought to be auoyded but yet the good workes to be prosecuted A silly shift but put case it be impossible to wring out the staines then is not this monstruous cloth to be abhord put case I could not giue almes but I must steale am I not bound in conscience to auoide the giuing of almes Admit I could not see mine enemy but by experiēce long proued I should fall a quarrelling with him am I bound in conscience to auoide his company say that I could not eat flesh but I should scandalize the beholders ought I not to say non manducabo carnes in aternum I will not eat flesh for euer Graunt that I could not releeue the poore but I should staine this action with vaine glory Should I not heare of him that can not lye he hath receaued his reward and consequently that there remayneth no recompensation therefore in heauen So I say in like maner if the corruptiō of nature if the poyson of concupiscēce so staine my best actions that whatsoeuer I do or thinke I cannot possiblie effect them without these infections and corruptions then certainely I am bound in conscience to auoide these crimes offences the which cannot possibly be performed without these vitious circumstances for bonum constat ex integra causa malum nascitur ex quolibet defectu a good thing consisteth of all integrity but an euill thing is caused by euery defect that a man be in health euery humour must keepe his temper that he be sick it sufficeth one onely exceed keepe not his iust proportion so that a work be good it must be effected with all due circumstances that it be ill one only will defile as we commonly say one ill hearbe will spoile a whole potfull of pottage Protestant By an orderly course of disputation the first syllogisme should haue bin to this effect If al good works according to the Protestants religiō be deadly sins the Protestāts are bound in conscience to auoid al good works But al good works are deadly syns according to the Protes●ants Religion Therfore the protestants are bound in conscience to auoide all good workes This or some such syllogisme would haue saued me some labour for I should not haue needed to haue medled with any thing but the matter of it and you some blame for the forme of it would haue bene agreeable to logick Wheras now I must needs take paines to finde fault with the lamenes of your reason Euery man is bound vpon paine of eternall damnation to auoide all deadly synnes This syllogisme is faulty because the conclusiō agrees not with the questiō Your conclusiō is general of al men wheras your questiō is particular of protestant● Besides that runs vpon a penalty of eternall damnation this speakes of being bound in conscience If you answer that is is all one to bee bound in conscience and to be bound vpon pain of eternall damnation either all sinns deserue eternall damnation and then what will become of your purgatory distinction betwixt mortall and veniall sinnes or else no man is bound in Conscience to auoyde any but deadly sinnes and then what a window do you set open to an innumerable company of sinnes ● How empty will you make purgatory How short and bare will your auricular Confessions be It were as good therefore for you to do that you make a show of euen directly to conclude your question But let vs examine the matter of your syllogisme The Proposition I graunt is true that Euery man is bound in conscience or vpon paine of eternall damnation B. to avoide all sinne But what needs this popish distinction of Deadly sinnes Which is so alledged by you as if it had some allowance from our Diuines whereas we wholy reiect this fancy because there is no sinne that deserues not eternall damnation For proofe whereof wee need no other place of Scripture then that which this Papist himselfe bringes The wages of sinne is death Neither may it be preiudiciall Rom. 6. 25 to vs that he hath foisted in Deadly since neither the Greeke hath any such word nor the latine which hee according to his fond custome to no purpose and here also vnwisely against himselfe sets downe We grant there are differences and degrees of sinnes but the least that can be is a transgression and breach of the law and therefore punishable by damnation but if his meaning were by deadly sins to signifie notorious grosse transgressions he doth vs wrong another way as in the assumption it shal presently appeare which is this But fasting prayer al●●●sdeedes and all good workes according C. to the Protestants religion are deadly sinnes But lying and slaundering are not according to the popish religion as it should seeme by your practise For surely if you thought they were you would neuer be so desperate to practise them against so manifest a truth in matters of so great impo●tance It is not possible you should thinke that
Protestants account good works to bee sinnes which they acknowledge both to be commaunded and also accepted of God Yea more then that to be wrought in the faithfull by the spirit of God and to haue a reward prepared for them in heauen But that which the Protestants teach concerning sinne in good works is that our Corruption distaines the best works of Gods spirit in vs so that not only they cannot be meritorious to the obteining of euerlasting life but also deserue eternall damnation in the iust district and perfect iudgement of God in whose sight nothing that is any way vncleane can appeare to receaue allowance but onely by his mercifull goodnes that pardons the sinne for Christes sake and affords the worke acceptance Yet doth not this admixtion of our sinnefulnesse change the nature of the worke as if it made that dutie a sinne which is of it selfe obedience but takes from the particular act all power to iustifie and deserue at Gods hands which otherwise it hath vpon Couenant betwene God and vs. For example Praying geuing of Almes and such like are not made sinnes by any Corruption of ours but the actions of these vertues being performed by vs vnperfectly and sinfully as they alwayes are if they bee examined in the seueritie of Gods iustice wil be condemned as sinnefull not rewarded as righteous because we haue desiled them And this himselfe acknowledgeth afterwards for our opinion where he sayes that wee affirme the best works wee can do are infected with deadly sinne But it is not all one to say that Fasting praier almes deeds c. and all good works done by vs are infected with deadly Sin and to auouch that fasting prayer almesdeeds and all good works are deadly sinnes He that sayes the body is infected with some disease doth not say the body is that disease But concerning deadly sinne if thereby hee vnderstād notorious and willfull breaking of the law of God by some greiuous transgression we deny that all good works are so much as infected with dead y sinne For we knowe and professe that in the whole course of our obedience to God wee are ordinarily free from such sinnes and that the Corruption which defiles our works proceeds rather from weakenes then willfullnes As for those actions of ours which haue such grosse sinnes adioyned to them wee deny that they can any way truely challenge so much as the bare name of good workes in the sight of God Such are those vaineglorious and hypocriticall deeds of the Pharisies Which our Sauiour condemnes and such to come neerer home are popish good works Because they are grounded vpon an euill intent namely a purpose and Conceit of iustifying the doers thereof deseruing Ex rigore iustitia in the rigor of iustice euerlasting glory of almighty God This I auouch generally of all their good workes whatsoeuer and particularly of all the. 3. here named I say further that in some part for the very substance of them they are no better nor other then sinnes Fasting is not of it selfe any good worke as if it made a man more acceptable to God then moderate eating doth but in 2. respects it is vpon iust occasion to bee vsed either for testifying of our humiliation by acknowledging our selues vnworthy so much as to taste of any of Gods creaturs or els for the better preparing of our selues to call vpon God by prayer But Popish fasting accounts the very absteining from meat a parte of holines and not simply from meat but from some kinds of meat So that a man may fully and truely keepe a popish fast though he neither be humbled in the sense of his sinne nor consideration of Gods wrath d●e thereunto nor performe any extraordinary dutie of praier nor haue any occasion of fasting but perhaps of the Contrary Yea though he gorge and glut himselfe with all kinds of dainties and fill his stomacke and head too with most delicate wines Alwaies pro●ided that hee touch not any flesh or whit meat And hence it is that a Popish fast by way of a prouerb signifies as much as a costly delicious bāquet No this kind of fast is so far from beeing a good worke that it is meerely a carnall and superst tious worke of the flesh ha●ing not so much as the outward forme of a fast which consists in refraining all kind of sustenance not this or that only Prayer indeed is of another nature as being a duty by which in it selfe God is properly honored whether it be by petition or thanksgiuing But Popish prayer standeth in vaine repetition of Pater-nosters Aue-maryes Creeds whereof the two last also are nothing lesse then prayers and that many times for a penance And out of doubt they are not much deceaued therein for it is a grieuous punishment of blindnesse and senselesnesse to imagine that such toylesome lip-labour can please God Yet all this might haue the better shew of prayer if that which is babled ouer were vnderstood but for the most part the common people pray as Parrats speake altogether by rote without knowledge what they say Shall I adde herevnto that the prayers which ordinarily are made by poore ignorant soules are not made to God but to creatures insomuch that it hath bene held here in England and so no doubt is yet in Popish countries for a certaine marke of an heretick for a man to offer vp his owne prayers to God in Iesus Christ without the mediation of some Saint or other All which considered we truly auouch that this Popish praying is sinne And the like we affirme of some almesgiuing howsoeuer we gladly acknowledge that the duty of it selfe is one of those sacrifices with which God is highly pleased But Heb. 13. 16. to giue almes first to be prayed for after death secondly to the singing of Masses and Di●●ges thirdly to the mainteinance of idle bellies fourthly to the impouerishing and many times vndoing of the poore wife and children is no better then infidelitie if the Apostle truely say that he 1. Tim. 5. 8. which hath not care of his owne especially of his domesticals is worse then an Infidell Therefore if we speake of these workes as they are done and allowed by the Papists we say that they are deadly sinnes not only faulty by reason of infirmitie which for the most part is the estate of those good workes that the faithfull in weaknesse performe Yet are they not by reason thereof deadly sinnes nor infected with deadly sinne but only as all sinnes how light account soeuer the Papists make of them deserue eternall death Neither doth it follow vpon the graunt of this infection and desert that therefore they are to be avoyded no more then that a sicke man is bound to starue himselfe by fasting as Pomponius Atticus absurdly did because his feeding continued his disease and that as Hippocrates says the more you nourish some sycke bodyes the more you corrupt them The sinne indeed which
Iesus Christ All the blessings that Abraham the Father of the faithfull could make any claime to were to be held by guift vpon promise Therefore if we wil be his children as we must be if we be faithfull we haue nothing to trust to but Gods promise in Iesus Christ Faith then is the ground of Hope and according to the measure of true beleeuing so is the measure of all true hoping Let vs exemplifie it a little Do I hope for euerlasting life What reason haue I to hope for it the promise of God that proclaimeth pardon of sinne and inheritance of Glory to all that beleeue in his sonne Iesus Christ But how doth that concerne me by reason of my faith in Christ So that if I beleeue not in Christ I doe but deceiue my selfe with a shadowe of hope for true Christian hope I haue none But I hope I beleeue in Christ But that will not serue thy turne For so dooth euery man that hath heard of Christ and beleeueth the truth of the Gospell and yet he is farre from true hope and from that which the Papists themselues require of euery Christian Who teach that euery man by receauing the Sacrament of Baptisme is actually purged from all his sinnes before committed which he must certainely be perswaded and assured of The like they say of their sacraments of penance and of extreame vnction Which he that receaueth dying hauing a generall Catholicke faith shall surely go to heauen though perhaps through Purgatory In somuch that if he which is thus prepared should doubt whether he were saued or no he should sinne mortally Therefore to conclude this point which I haue hit vpon this by the waie I say it is plaine that faith limits hope and that there is no true hope or reason of hoping but proportionably to the measure of beleeuing Which will easilier be acknowledged of vs if we remember that hope in the Scriptures is applied to those things which we must of necessitie beleeue by faith And in deed the true difference betwixt faith and hope is not in the diuersitie of assurance but in the circumstance of time Faith reaching to all times past present and to come hope being restrained onely to the future time A Christian man beleeueth by faith that God will blesse him in all things of this life so farre forth as it shall make for his owne glory and the beleeuers saluation Therefore also he hopeth for this blessing from God not absolutely but with those conditions which faith obserues in beleeuing The same man beleeues by faith that because he trusts in Christ he is now in the fauour of God and shall so continue for euer Therefore accordingly he hopes for saluation without any other condition Of the truth of these things I dispute not but only bring them to shew the nature of hope which is alwayes fitted according to the nature of the promises which faith rests vpon Where we beleeue conditionally we hope conditionally where our faith is absolute our hope is so too That the proposition is false it appeares by the example B. To the proposition of Dauid Who praies to God for the pardon of those sinnes which he beleeued by faith were forgiuen for so was he assured from the Lord by the prophet Nathan vnlesse we shall charge him with infidelity for not beleeuing the prophet since the speech was so plaine that hee could not but vnderstand it I haue sinned against the Lord. A plaine and 2. Sam. 12. 13. true Confession The Lord also hath put away thy sinne thou shalt not dye As plaine and certaine an absolution Will you come in here with your vaine distinctions of guilt and punishment of temporall and eternall If you do it is to no purpose For whatsoeuer the respects were in which Dauid praied for the forgiuenes of sinnes once this is cleere that he praied for it and then what remaines but that you condemne him of sinning greeuously in asking God pardon for those sinnes which he beleeued by faith were forgiuen or of infidelitie for not beleeuing But if Dauid in some regard might craue pardon when it was already graunted and beleeued by him to be so be thinke your selfe what will become of your proposition and how wisely you haue charged vs with sinning greeuously for doing that which in some respect may be lawfully done Now for your distinctions I will not wast time nor blot paper to refute them but onely shew that in this case they cannot helpe you Which of the former is apparant because the Prophet precisely mentions both parts The Lord hath taken awaie thy sinne There is the guilt wipt away Thou shalt not die There is the punishment forgiuen Yea you will say the eternall punishment but not the temporall I pray you whether of the two is it that God threatens Adam Gen. 2. 18. withall The day thou eatest thou shalt die the death The punishment yea the whole penaltie of the statute concerning sinne is Thou shalt die See how God for the comfort of Dauid proclaimes this pardon in the very contrary words Thou shalt not die Who shall perswade vs now that the pardon is lesse generall then the penalty But is the eternall punishment indeed forgiuen I thinke you mistake your selfe or els popish doctrine hanges but ill fauoredly togeather For what is that which you say is changed from eternall to temporall Is it not the punishment due to sinne how is it then forgiuen vnles forgiuenes of sinnes be nothing els but a changing of the punishment which if we grant then Christ hath not obteyned any more for vs but the altering of the punishment then God hath not pardoned our sin but remitted somwhat of the penalty Speake not here of the effect of baptisme for if by forgiuenesse of sinnes therein we are wholy acquitted from the guilt and punishment why should the same words after baptisme signifie a change of the punishment and not a full pardon Dauid therefore in praying for pardon of those sinnes which he beleeued by faith were already pardoned by his practise destroyed this popish reason long before it was hatcht Nor may you answere that this prayer was for any temporall Calamity which was layde vpon him for this sinne because the scriptures make these requests diuers Hee was threatned by the prophet that the child borne in adultery 2. Sam. 12. 18. Psa 32. 3. 4 51. 1. 2. should surely dye For the life of the childe he prayes fastes and weepes but those 2. Psalmes I spake of are of another nature not once mentioning nor once glancing at any temporall or outward affliction And if there be in deede any such dictinction of guilt and punishment Dauid intreats directly and principally for the former According to the multitude of thy mercies wash me throughly c. Euery verse expressing the anguish of a distressed soule for the conscience of sinne cōmitted against God And whereas he makes also request