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A65868 The he-goats horn broken, or, Innocency elevated against insolency & impudent falshood in answer to two books against the people of God called Quakers : the one intituled, A fuller discovery, which is stuffed with such a multitude of lyes, slanders, and perverting the truth, as the like hath not been extant : the authors of which are John Horn, Thomas Moore Senior, and Thomas Moore Junior : and the other book is falsely called truth's triumph by John Horn : which are answered for the information of the people, and the clearing of the servants of God, and the way of truth to the simple hearted from the lyes, delusions and fallacies that have proceeded from the spirit of Antichrist and blasphemy, in these men aforesaid, who profess themselves ministers of Christ but are proved ministers of Satan and unrighteousness / by a witness of Christ and his work against all the works of darkness, G.W. Whitehead, George, 1636?-1723. 1660 (1660) Wing W1933; ESTC R38606 53,172 64

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3. That Envy is not Malice Page 18. 4. That a man may be a Sinner and yet not Sin Pag. 11. 5. That Sin is in the believer as a natural heritage from Adam while he is in this mortal Body Pag 2. 8. 6. That the same mortal Body that Dyes or is sown in the Earth shall Rise but it shall not Rise flesh and blood Pages 44. 46. 7. To know Christ as he was the Power of God before the World was is not the Knowledge of him to Salvation Pag 48. 8. That the Light wherewith Christ Lighteth every man is both natural and Spiritual Pag. 61. 9. That Adam should not have dyed the bodily Death had he not Sinned Pag. 23. 10. That when Paul saith Christ was seen of him last 1 Cor. 15 8. he must needs mean is of his Body seen and seen by bodily sight Pag. 55. which is contrary to Gal. 1. 16. And now I shall note some things in their Answers to our Queries and briefly Reply to them by way of discovery J. H. and T. M. Sen. Juni in Pag. 77. They go about to prove that Satan presseth men to some duties thus viz. That Satans Ministers may be transformed into the Ministers of Righteousness which they could not be if not zealous for some things that are in their place and order in Duties as to be diligent to go up and down and Preach Righteous works together with their own mixtures and to evil unrighteous ends Reply How miserably come you off here for these are not Duties that are done to unrighteous ends for Duties are done in Righteousness and to Righteous ends and this Satan presseth none to your selves are these transformed ones you tell of who are zealous for some things for Tythes or Hire or Masterships and these are your evil and unrighteous ends which are manifest to all men and are not yet come so far as they that are drawn from gross evils and though Satan for your own ends press these things as Duties yet are they not Duties in the sight of God and Gospel Truth Touching our 1. Que. You say p. 8. Whether we so propounded it out of weakness or wickedness you will not determine And yet soon after in your Answer to the same Que. you charge us with confounding things clearly distinct and seeking by such confusion to work our ends in deceiving the simple which is your own false determination against us when before you determined not whether we so propounded it out of weakness or wickedness thus you betray your selves in your confusion and at the Beginning of your Answer you falsely say these Questions give a full Intimation of our Antichristian Spirit which is your slander and perverting them In your 2. Answer you say our Que. is perverse in that it Intimately charges you as calling the Personal Body of our Lord Jesus a Body of flesh and bones which you say is a slander for it is not your expression and yet you say though possibly you may sometimes have let it pass without consideration or particular notice of it in some discourse that may have passed between us Reply Mark how these men are ashamed of their own words and count that a Slander which they cannot deny but that they may sometimes have spoken as called the Body of Christ a Body of flesh and bones and yet now they say the expression they own not when it is evidently known that they have used that expression and gone about to prove it to be such a Body without blood in it but now seeing that they shame not to deny their own expression I ask them if the glorified Body of Christ be not a body of flesh and bones as formerly they have Affirmed it to be what is it a body of and what is the Substance of it Again you say in your 3. Answer That be even the Son of man came down from Heaven and descended into the Lower parts of the Earth although that his Personal Body in which he was made man and became the Son of man was actually prepared for him or the preparation of it was made in the Earth you say Reply Mark your confusion here which is as if the Son of man which came down from Heaven again became the Son of man in that Personal Body which was prepared for him in the Earth which is confusion for he was the Son of man as he came down from Heaven and so that Body prepared for him in the Earth Descended not down from Heaven as the Son of Man did according to your own words And where you bring Ps. 139. 15. that proves not how the Son of man Descended into the Lower parts of the Earth for there it s spoken of the Lowest parts of the Earth wherein the Prophet saith he was curiously wrought now this is besides the Que. for it was about him which Descended into the Lower parts of the Earth and not about that which was framed in the Lowest parts of the Earth which David speaks of Psal. 139. 15. and as for your telling of the Son of man being three dayes and three nights in the heart of the Earth pag. 92. I say the Sepulchre in which his Body was Buryed could not be the Lower parts of the Earth for it was but one part of it it being in a Rock Mat. 27. 60. and where in Pag. 91. you say men of the lowest Ranke poor despised and of mean esteem may be as properly called the Lower parts of the Earth and you bring Rom. 12. 16. then I say if such men be the Lower parts into which Christ Descended It follows that his Discending into the Lower parts of the Earth was his Descending into men of the lowest Rank poor despised and of mean esteem such as you are not who are set up as Masters it seems you running into so many things to prove what the Lower parts of the Earth are which Christ Descended into you thought if some of them would not serve others would but where the Earth is not yet shaken nor the Power which must shake and Remove it known the Lower parts of the Earth is covered with thick darkness that they are not discerned nor the Seed which Rents the Earth known and that is your state and to you a Parable who are out of the Power of Godliness over whom the Earth and earthly things hath Power J. H. and T. M. Say Pag. 93 and 106. That the Name Jesus alwayes signifies that Person as so made and includes the Body of his Flesh and that the Name Jesus alwayes signifies Christ as come in the Flesh and so takes in that Body of his Flesh Reply If the Name Jesus alwayes Includes the Body of his Flesh then from this it followes that the Body of Christs flesh was in the Believers for Jesus Christ was in them 2 Cor. 13. 5. thus these men confound themselves and they have said that it is the Annointing that is in
upon this J. Horn whom this his Book falsely Called Truth's Tryumph hath sought to Vindicate his own Corrupt Cause and to clear himself from what I charged against him in what I writ in that Book Called The Quakers no Deceivers the truth of which in his Pride and Deceit he hath sought to Trample under Foot but thereby hath he but more discovered his shame and Malice and folly and made Lyes his Refuge and under falshood hath hid himself as they spoken of in Isai. 28. 15. but the more he strives against the Truth the more he is ensnared and the worse his Cause appears Therefore he is not like to Prosper though he appear strongly in Contention for his Masters work which is Sin and unrighteousness So the Reader hereof may take notice of some of the chief of John Hornes matter which he hath laid down in order to his Fathers work who is the Father of Lyes and Lyars such as he is And to some of his Principal matter I shall briefly Answer from whence the Reader may easily Judge what Spirit the rest of J. Hornes Babylonish stuff in his Book came from In Pag. 3. J. Horne chargeth us with being an Envious and imbittered People who hiss like Serpents out of the holes This is one J. H. his Malitious Slanders for we are in that Power wherein we are a Torment to him and such Lyars as he is and in that we can tread upon such Serpents and not be stung though they shoot forth their stings against us In P. 5. J. H. Chargeth me with making the Asserting of the sayings of the Holy men of God a Warring for the Devils Kingdom Which is a Lye and a Slander against me for I make his perverting of their sayings in which he contends for Sin which is the Devils work to continue in all and all to be Sinners so long as they live a Warring for the Devils Kingdom since that where Sin is destroyed by Christ 1 Joh. 3. 7 8. there the Devils Kingdom cannot stand And what confusion is this J. Horne in in his Warring for this his Fathers Kingdom One while he pleads that the Prophets and Apostles had Sin in them and were Sinners so long as they lived as in Pages 5. and 26. and for it brings Ecc. 7. 20. 1 Kin. 8. 46. when at other timee both he and T. M. have admitted of a further state that the Saints attained to then being Sinners while they lived for they have said that they might have Sin in them when they did not do it and that they that were born of God could do nothing against the Truth 2 Cor. 13. 8. so that when the Saints sinned not or did not sin as they have granted then they were not sinners so in their accusing them with being sinners so long as they lived they have shewed their Deceit and confusion J. H. His Reason to prove that no man is perfectly freed from Sin in this Life is that Sicknesses Diseases and mortality that came in by Sin abides upon all men till the death yea and the bodily death that came in by Sin abides upon all till the Resurrection he saith In which he hath shewed his falshood and Ignorance for does sickness abide upon all men till death Surely then he would make all men live a sad life if Sickness be upon them all their Life time Again some of the Righteous may be Lyable to sickness or diseases through natural Causes as hunger cold outward sufferings which Christs when he was upon Earth also suffered and was subject to infirmities as they confess yet that does not Argue therefore that the Righteous are not freed perfectly from Sin in this Life no more than it Argues that Christ had Sin and the death which they dye who dye in him which is gain to them did not come in by sin but that death which is already upon all the wicked though living as also sickness may come as a Judgement upon such and to his saying that bodily death abides upon all till the Resurrection I say what bodily death then came upon Enoch Elijah or Melchizedeck for Sin and where dyed they that death Gen. 5. 24. Heb. 11. 5 2 King 2. And where I proffered to be willing to prove against J. H. If lawfully called either in the Market place Steeple house c. 1. That he J. H. is out of the Life and steps of the true Ministers and in the steps and Practices of Deceivers and so is a Hypocrite and no Minister of Christ who being a Parish Priest is Guilty of the Priests Iniquity whom he hath declared against 2. That he upholds a dead Formal Worship like the World c. 3. That his Ministry wherein he contends for Sin is Antichristian and both against the Commands and promises and Works of God and tends to the making both the Preaching and Praying of Christ and the Saints Ineffectual 4. And that he the said J. H. is a Forger of Lyes a false Accuser a Slanderer and so one of the Dragons Army who was wroth with the Woman that brought forth the Man-childe and the Remnant of her Seed that kept the Commands of God These I charged J. H. with and proffered to make them good against him to which he saith P. 6. My foolish Challenge as he calls it he shall not accept c. To which I say ah J. Horn thou wast herein touched what wast thou affraid to have thy works tryed and brought to light this sheweth thy Guilt but thou knowest I was not affraid to meet thee upon thy Challenge and to Vindicate the Truth which thou hast split thy self against for all thy boasting and what thinkest thou art thou clear from the Deceivers Practices and the Parish Priests Iniquity when thou art Preaching for Hire and pleading for it and Tythes did ever Christs Ministers plead for and take Tythes as thou hast done and dost thou not think your Steeple-house worship whereunto People are called by a company of Bells is dead and Formal and your Singing Davids words and Experiences in Rime and Meeter and Preaching by an hour glass where hast thou Scripture for these your Practices I Queried thee about them in a Paper I sent thee a great while ago which I never yet received an Answer to thy guiltiness in these and many other things plainly may be seen And in P. 6. Thou sayest thou sent me word that thou should henceforth have no more to do with me but according to the Apostles Counsel Reject us But thou may see thou hast herein Lyed again for wherefore hast thou scribled so much confused stuff against us if thou intended to have more to do with me and against me in particular hast thou shewn thy vennome the most In P. 6. Again thou sayest Thou shalt not go about to plead thy own Cause but leave it to God and rather take good Hezekiah's course when Sennacherib railed upon him that would not have him
again ascended are no local places but some Conditions or Conceits in men 5. That neither the Souls nor Bodies of the Wicked shall rise again to Judgment This with several other Lies J. Horne and Thomas Moor charge us called Quakers with maintaining or asserting insome Queries I sent to them when as I only queried them to try their belief in these things without asserting them so what unreasonable men these are is easie to see who distinguish not between Questions and Assertions who proceed in their lies thus 6. That we agree with Himneus and Philetus that said the Resurrection is already past 7. That Christ came not to Redeem men from out of the natural bodily Death 8. That such Faith as that of the Elect mentioned Rom. 8. 33 34 35. is by our Doctrines to be rooted up 9. That by our Doctrine Christ is not the Author and procurer of all good to men both natural and spiritual 10. That we deny Justification by a Righteousness imputed to us 11. That to endeavour to detect and make manifest the delusions of any to preserve people from them is a being impatient under and raging against Gods Judgments which they falsely charge us called Quakers with maintaining And with maintaining 12. That these Teachers whose Hearers do sleight and neglect the Truth Preached by them and remain sloathful formal Covetous are false Prophets whenas the words were not so spoken by us but we spoke rather in particular against them and such as being false Prophets and Hypocrites who being neglecters of Christ and abusers of the Truth themselves as they have confessed they have not profited the People Again these abusers of the Truth viz. 13. J. Horne and T. Moor charge us falsely with plainly denying Judgment after the natural Death and with denying and jearing at Christ that Holy and Innocent man that was born of the Virgin Mary as having the form and body of a man 14. That we set up another thing in his stead viz. an imaginary seed within every man 15. That we plead for a Christ without any body of man distinct from others or out of them but a certain seed with an imaginary flesh and blood dying and bearing sin in every man having no other body but what is in some men dying yea in every man in its time 16. That our Christ hath been alwayes dying and rising in men from the beginning of the World and so will be to the end 17. That we make nothing of the coming again of Christ but scoffs at him that dyed 1600. years ago 18. That we account Christ's Death and Resurrection but a shaddow 19. That the seed which we speak of in men is but a conceited Spirit that is within them with a conceited flesh and blood in them too of which they say such an Idol was scarce ever in any Generation of men set up before Wherein J. Horne and these two Moors have both lyed shamefully and blasphemed for the seed which we spake of is Christ whom the Apostles Preached which the promise was to in them and this is not an Idol as they heve blasphemed nor his flesh and blood a conceited and an imagined thing but our meat and drink without the eating and drinking of which a man hath no life in him 20. Again J. H. and T. M. falsely accuse us with maintaining that our Christ in all the reality of his body with his flesh and blood is wholy within us sensibly bearing our sins though not willingly 21. That the coming of Christ to raise the dead bodies of all that sleep in Jesus c. and the Resurrection of the dead and Judgment afterdeath is by us altogether denyed 22. That whatsoever is said of the true Christ or of his Church in the Scripture we apply to a false Christ and to our selves 23. That we come in our own Name and Authority boasting of our selves and witnessing to and of our selves and obtruding things upon men not by and in the Light and evidence of the Spirit 24. That we say our sayings are better than the sayings of the holy Spirit in the Scriptures 25. That George Fox said in Bury at Goal of one Disbrough Brother-in-law to Joseph Hagger being a Tradesman in London that he was Priest and Hireling and took Tyths which with the rest is an odious lie and slander and denyed by George Fox as also are these viz. 26. That we count our selves Lords and disdain to have any over us and revile and likely would destroy if in our power at our pleasure 27. And that our principle leads to it 28. That I wilfully played the Jesuite or Sophister to delude the ignorant with seeming like tearms 29. That Christopher Wade clearly proved a whole dozen of notorious lies against George Fox 30. And that in my Answer I give the goe-by most egregiously and in none of them reproves C. Wade Which also are filthy lies against both G. F. and me as may be seen in my Book intituled Truth defending the Quakers so that these things here mentioned against us called Quakers which John Horn and T. Moor have accused us with which are inserted in their Epistle I return back upon them as wicked lies and slanders proceeding from the envious Spirit of the wicked one in them and yet they are but a few in comparison of many more which they have uttered against us which we are clear of and more of their lies and slanders in their Book are as followeth viz. 31. That some of us say we are Christ 32. That we cast mists and cloudes in our expressions 33. That we turne Scripture sayings into fables perverting the whole Scripture to a corrupt sense 34. That by dead in Christ we mean but the spiritually dead in some some fancyed death sleeping in him the Trumpet and shout and Resurrection all Allegorical 35. 36. That we are denyers of the Resurrection Preached by the Apostles And that all men may see us to be so 37. That we count the Preaching of the Cross foolishness and turn it into a Fable or Allegory 38. That we confess not Christ come in the flesh but make him a figure of a spiritual wickedness or mysterious deceit that works in them that perish 39. 40. That we turn the words of Truth into a lie Not only neglecting but wholly trampleing the true Christ under our feet 41. That we deny the God above In these slanders also with many others against us have they shewed themselves to be frequent and common lyers all which we return back upon them as things never owned by us which if they further assay to make them good we shall know further how to make our defence that our innocency may be clear from them as we are clear in the sight of God But in these they have but done by our words as they use to do by the Scriptures of Truth perverted them and raised lies from them which is the manner of their Preaching And