who dare not ask God for the exceeding greatness of my sin O saints of God I beseech you with tears and weeping to fall down before his mercy seat for me wretch Sixthly ye deny the making of the sign of the Cross and Images but hear S. Dennis lib. 2. Eccl. hierarch cap. 2. 5. The sign of the Cross is so much honoured that it is often used both in Baptism and other Sacraments And in the third Age Tertul. de cor mil. cap. 3. In every thing we sign our forehead with the sign of the Cross of which practise tradition is the defender custome the conserver and faith the observer And againe the same Tertul. lib. 2. de pudic The Image of Christ bearing a Lamb on his shoulder were graven on chalices and used in Churches Seventhly ye deny Freewill which in the second Age Irenaeus lib. 4. cap. 72. affirmeth not only in workes but even in faith hath Almighty God reserved liberty of will to man saying be it done to thee according to thy faith And in the third Age S. Cyprian lib. 3. cap. 52. The freedom of believing or not believing is placed in the will Eâ—ghtlie ye denie merit of workes but in the second Age Justin Martyr Ap. 2. boldeth it saying We think that men who by workes have shewed themselves worthy of the will and counsel of God shall by their merits reign with him And in the third Age St. Cyprian sect de Eleemosyna If the day of your return shal find us unloaden swift and running in the way of good works our Lord will not fail to reward our merits Ninthlie Ye deny the possibility of keeping the Commandments against Tertul. in the second Age cited by the Centurists and Origen in the 1. hom 9. on Iob. the baptized saith he may fulfil the law in all things Judge now Sir whither it be not an open calumnie to say the controversies betwixt you and us were not then started in the first 300. years The Fathers having taught even then so clearlie our tenets which nevertheless ye are not ashamed to call new with Dr. Pierce in his Court sermon but see the two learned answers made to him which may evidentlie convince you of boldness ignorance and errour Answer You are wise by this your reply Prote ∣ stants Duply for you leave the marrow of my answer untouched which was this That our Church in Doctrinals worship c. is as old as Scripture That you pass with a jeer and say that it is the language of all Sectaries This calumny hath been cast of old upon pure doctrine Acts 24. and their worship called Haeresie verse 14 I wish that all Sects were such as we are scriptural in their way Ye are the greatest Schismaticks I know on earth departing from the Scriptures and mocking others who adhere to them The other assertion is That this is the voice of common people who claim descent from Adam and Eve Is not this true Are not all nations of men made of one blood Acts 17. 26. It is grace and vertue which maketh the difference Omnis sanguis concolor And iâ— we have as much relation to scripture Churches as multitudes have to Adam and Eve we are not spurious but of a right extract Ye probably must be a kind of men like the pre-Adamits and of another descent But one cheat is here remarkable you promise to shew how contrar our doctrine is to scripture and when you come to answer then you beginne with Dudithius and overleap the whole scripture Your own Rainerius an Inquisitor giveth this verdict concerning us that we are said to have been from the beginning and walked by the Scriptures Secondly You pass that concerning professours of our doctrine in all Ages and will not signifie one man who answereth Flaccius or refuteth Usher but only you averre with Dr. Vane to whom ye are much beholden in this that they were not in all things ours I know few discerning men who agree in all things If we hold one foundation which Jesus Christ hath laid that maketh unity and uniformity All Christian Churches except Romanists make the Scripture the sole rule of their faith and to this we accord Were the Eastern and Western Churches essentially different because of some discrepances about the time of Easter c. For Turkes and Tartars they are without Christ and you might more pertinently have spared the comparison of them with ancient churches and professours if your charity were as much in your breasts as in your books and your respect real to the Saints in light Thirdly That which I said I will mak good that all the positive fundamentals of our Religion were mantained in the Church the first 400. years This appeareth from the Creeds and Confessions of Faith then made yet extant Let any read the Apostolick Nicaene or Anathasius Creed the determinations of the Ephesian council written by Cyril of Alexandria the Confession of Faith made by the council of Chalcedon and there they will find exact conformity with the positives of our Religion Popery addeth to these their own inventions which we renounce and this maketh the difference To make this truth appear the more I shal name these foundations The doctrine of the Prophets and Apostles upon which our faith is builded We hold that there is one GOD three Persons that the world was made by GOD and man the tennant when the house was made appointed to bring in his rent That man was made according to the Image of GOD in holiness and righteousness That he fell from his first state and turned to the creature by transgression That sin entered this and death by sin That he sinned as a publick person and involved posteritie under a curse That GOD so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son who was very GOD made flesh in the womb of the blessed Virgin and dyed for our sins and after burial rose again for our righteousneâ—s So that it is the blood of Jesus Christ only that cleanseth us from all siâ— And eternal life is the gift of GOD through Jesus Christ our Lord and when he paid the price then he ascended to Heaven and the Heaven must contain him as man â—ill the day of the restitution of all things That he iâ— now aâ— the right hand of GOD advocating and inâ—erceeding for as many as the Father gave him and shal come again and render â—o every man according to his works When he ascended on high he led captivity captive and sent the Holy Ghost who proceedeth from the Father and the Son who createth saith in us by which we are justified Who enlighteneth convinceth comforteth supporteth directeth all the houshold of faith and teacheth all the children to worship GOD alone in spirit and in truth and to call on his Name through Jesus Christ the only Media tour betwixt GOD and man Our Lord sent his Apostles and set them in the Church commanding them to teach
release those Prisoners sooner and sill some rooms in Heaven faster How readie are we to delay duty from time to time And doth not this baite our humour How jejune and bare is their contrition which goeth before confession and absolution Yet may prove sufficient Hear Suarez tom 4. disp 4. who saith a slender grief is sufficient And Tolet. lib. 3. de instr Sacerdot a smal degree of grief can wipe away a great degree of sin What is this but daubing with untempered morter and putting kercheifes under arme holes a strengthening of the hands of the wicked that he should not return from his evil way By toleration of Brothels and preferring in votaries fornication to lawful marriage Is not a wide door opened to obâ—cene sensualitie Agrippa de vanit witnesseth that the Pope hath tribute payed to him by all the whore-houses at Rome Therefore Pope Sixtus builded the nobile lâ—panâ—r a notable Brothel house Bell. de Monach. lib. 2. cap. 30. saith that fornication in such is a less sin nor marriage What will debauch the chastitie if this do not Tolet. lib. 4. de instr sacerd telleth us that a man is bound to sanctifie the Sabbath but is not bound to sanctifie it well for he may hunt travel and make market on that day Is not this infectious doctrine Now Christian Reader if thou be serious for salvation I charge thee to pause here a little and consider if this can be the way of holiness wherein the Prophers Apostles and primitive Fathers walked to Heaven Therefore as thou tenderest thy own salvation and consolation bewar of it this leadeth to the chambers of death Hath falne man who enclineth naturally to wickedness need of such incentives to sin and lenitives when he hath sinned Or can he who is of puter eyes then to behold iniquity approve such as break his Commandments and teach men so to do Can the tree be good where the fruiâ— is so bâ—d None will believe it who have understanding unless they be willing to be deceived It is the stain of any Christian to desert the good old way in which they are commanded to walk Ier. 6. 16. and to be fooled out of their Religion by some groundless distinctions and ingenious devices of subtile men who stent snares and lay themselves in waâ—te to deceive the simple If a man born and trained in the Reformed Church shal hanker after Popery he is foolish in so doing if he purpose nâ—t to swallow the whole bulk of it For Bellarmin saith they cannot quite one â—ota otherwise their Church were not to be reputed infallible and if he resolve to do this I must say he hath an Ostrich-stomach and is a great latitudinarian Further it is to be feared that at the next alteration if tempted â—e fall into Atheism total infidelitie For the weapoÌ„s by which the Papists wage warre with the Scriptures and the Reformed Church built thereon are the same which Celsus used of old against Christianity it self which Origen refuteth at length he impeached the Scriptures and quarrelled the Christians for their rents for the calumnies of the world c. If these have beat thee from the Reformed Religion hast thou not to fear that they may shake thee in all and turn thee at last Nullisidian As they make use of Pagan arguments so of the Jewish for they reasoned just so against Christ Jesus and his Apostles By what authority where is your visible succession have any of the rulers Scribes or Pharisees beleeved on him c. It hath pleased the Lord to furnish us with good defences but it is strange that they drawing many of their shafts from Pagan and Jewish Antichristian quivers should not be ashamed of their way And it is more strange that knowing men if conscientions should be ensnared by them It is known to such as are not ignorant of Church history that when Christianity came first into this Ysle they had nothing to do with Rome for a long time they were strangers and adversaries to her soveraignty and would not exchange the dyet of Easter for her commands nor have communion with these messengers who came from her Bede called Venerable telleth lib 2. hist cap. 4. that in the beginning of the 7. cent after Augustine the Monk came to Brittain he found them no way like the Romanists noâ— could he prevaile with them to conforme to Rome not so much as in the administration of Baptism or observation of Easter And when one Laurentius his successor endeavoured the same and thought the Scots would be more tractable he found the plaine contrare as he writteth to the Abbates in Scotland for Dagamus the Scotish Bishop who came to speak with them refused to eat or drink with Laurentius or stay in the roome where he was So little communion would they here have then with Romanists Now that Church is farre more corrupt then it was in Gregories dayes and ours more pure and enlightened then it was at that time What phrenesie must it be therefore in them now who are members of this Church to enter into communion with Romanists or tamper with or haunker after their way Let all who love the Truth stand in awe thus to sin we have a safer surer way for Salvation nor Popery wherein if we walk peace and mercy shal be on us Gal. 6. 16. Least this Preface swell disproportionably I will offer four advyees to my Countrey-men that they may be perswaded from Poperie and then close with a word more particularly to the Inhabitants of this Place First If ye would guard well against Popery have a full perswasion of the Truth from the ground of divine revelation in the holy Scriptures 2. Tim. 1. 13. 14. Hold fast the forme of sound words which thou hast heard of me in faith and love which is in Christ Iesus that good thing which is commited to thee keep by the holy Ghost which dwelleth in us For men not perswaded by divine faith like to young schollars evil grounded in their principles are easily put from their grounds and tossed to and froe with every wind of doctrine Persuasisti mihi Domine saith Aug. lib. 6. confes cap. 5. this keeped him fast When once divine Truth sinketh into the heart ye will have a sincere love to it for it self and not for any by respects or worldly advantages Otherwayes when truth florteth only in the head and men are bated with worldly temptations and selfish interests they are soon drawn away from the truth which in their affection is postponed to that which they love better And GOD in his holy justice giveth them up to stronge delusions for their hypocrisie and want of sinceritie 2. Thess 2. 10. 11. the Lord hath promised the spirit to them who ask him Luke 11. 13. If ye love the truth seek the grace and strength of the holy Spirit to lead you into all truth and labour to grow in grace and the knowledge of our Lord Jesus
as appeareth from Aug. contra Cresconium lâ—b 2. cap. 3. and ep 48. This was one of the weapons whereby they did bâ—at the Donatists Answer The ground of separation of the Donatists was the personall vices of men Prote ∣ stants Answer not the doctrine professed in the Church For in that they agreed with the universall Church as is clear from the above mentioned ep Now we did not separat from Rome because their Popes whom they take for a patron have been Atheists Hereticks denyers of the soules immortalitie Whore mongers c. as their own writters confess in the lives of Silvester 2. Alexander 6. Iohn 22. and many moe but because ye apostatized from the Apostles doctrine and corrupted the worship miserably so these testimonies concern not us Secondly If interrupted succession make void the Ministry ye Papists have none at Ans 2. all For ye often had Anti-Popes and the Councill at Pisa deposed two Popes at once as Hereticks departing from the faith The Councill of Constance deposed Iohn 23. for denying the immortality of the soul and the resurrection Behold then your succession and the infallibility of your Popes Eugenius the fourth was deposed by the Council of Basil and all the following Popes were his successours albeit the Council judged Faelix the fifth to be Pope Yea further this place hath vaiked for many years together so that a line of immediat successours cannot be drawn by your selves Thirdly We have a lawful Ministry as Ans 3. powerful as the world affordeth honoured by the blessing of the Lord by begetting souls to himself and many can from their experience say that it hath been the power of GOD to their salvation how then can you challenge our Ministry Is not this near of kine to that old Anti-Christian question proponed to our Master by what authority dost thou these things And if personal succession had such weight as you say the Priesthood under the law had been at a great loss For the line of it was interrupted oftner then once before the coming of Christ yet he commendeth submission and obedience to them so long as they did sit in Moses chair and no further Matth. 23. 1. So that in Ministers it is the Doctrine and not the Genealogy of persons that is so much regarded Reply In your eleventh Answer you grant personal vices are not a sufficient ground Papists Reply of sepaâ—ation from the Church and say that Protestants did only separat themselves from the worship miserablie polluted and because the Roman Church had Apostatized from the Apostolick Doctrine But Sir let me ask you when the Catholick Roman Church which before your Reformation at least was a true Church Apostatized And who was a competent judge to declare her Apostacie and give you leave to separat Was â—t Scripture as according to your first rule you must say Then I ask if two or three under pretence of a Reformation may adhere to what they think to be in Scripture against the judgement of the whole Church at that time Which â—ssuredly all must grant who teach that the true Church may erre and so give the same libertie to all Sectaries which they take so boldly to themselves But albeit you say your separation was not from our personal vyces yet you impute in the by going heresie denying of the souls immortalitie whoredom to two or three of our Popes Silvester the second Alexander the sixth John the twenty two How justly we shal presently see But however this were true it could no more wrong the Popes authority in his Canonical decrees then Davids adultery or Solomons Idolatrie in penning Scripture Neither is it a great wonder that amongst 240. Popes there have been two or three evil Since even amongst twelve Apostles there was one Judas Nor do Catholicks canonize all their Popes although for these three whom ye name wicked they have 33. most famous Martyrs and Saints What ever they teach as privat doctors as it mâ—keth no law in the Church so it cannot derogat in the least to their decision and doctrine as Popes But to answer for these three what Martinus Polemius and the Magdeburgh say against Silvester the second as a Magician is known by all the learned to be meer fables imputed to him for his eminent knowledge and learning in the Mathematicks which made the ninth Age wherein he lived to call him a Magician because of its gross ignorance Alexander the sixth is also blamed for lewdness by no impartial writter And what Calvin saith lib. 4. instir against John 22. is known to be errour and lies speaking of him as Pope whatever was his opinion as a privat Doctor of the soul before the day of judgement which he disclaimed to be his at his death professing and protesting that he had never any belief but that of the Catholick Church saith John Williams lib. 11. hist cap. 19. But Hereticks speak of Popes as Rebels of Kings discontented subjects of Ministers of state and criminals of their lawful judges which no wise man will much regard Then to shew that we have not an uninterrupted succession you speak first of Anti-Popes as if they did interrupt the succession of Popes more then Usurpers the succession of Kings Secondly Of Popes deposed by Councils but you cannot instance that any lawful Pope was deposed by any general Council what ever Thirdly You say the See of Rome hath vaiked for many years To which I answer as Kings die not so neither Popes as it doth not interrupt the succession of Elective Kings that after the death of one there be long debate before the Election of another the royal power then residing in the Electours so neither interrupteth it the succession of Popes and their Election You speak nothing of your own succession because ye have none You bragge much of a powerful Ministrie but shews no call you had to the Ministrie from GOD nor his Church so we had good reason to challenge it albeit you call this an Anti-Christian question to ask at new upstarts who pretend to reforme the Church who gave you a call because the Jews had such a question to Christ But Christ John 15. 24. saith if he had not shewed himself to be the Son of GOD by his words and works which none else could do no man had been obliedged to belive him Yet ye will have us to believe you are lawful Ministers without succession or a call and that Luther and Calvin were extraordinarily sealed for Reformation without the least sign mark or miracle shewing that they were sent for that end So that in Ministers you conclude it is the Doctrine more then the Genealogie of persons which is so much regarded As if preaching of true doctrine were sufficiant to make a man a Minister without any ordination or call the Scripture expresseth another thing saying how shal they preach except they be sent And as to seek true successsion of Bishops and Pastours in
errours but when the first seed was â—owne of these tâ—res probably men sleeped and an adversary hath done it Your Anti-Popes made an interruption of succession and possession otherwise their work was non ens If so then where is your uninterrupte I succession And if it be nor such you speak nothing to the point You say I cannot instance that any lawful Pope was deposed by a Council I hold no Pope lawful and your School-men say the Council cannot depose a Pope so it is an unlawful sentence But seeing it appeareth you are of the contrar mind I produced the instance of Eugenius the fourth deposed by the Council of Basil and all the Popes were his successours albeit the council judged Falix the 5. to be Pope But after your manner you pass with silence what you have not mind for You say vacancy for many years maketh no interruption because the Pope is like an elective King and the power in the interim continueth in the Electours This is loose language for once ye make the Popes like the Kings of the Nations against Matth. 20. 25. then ye make no inter-Regnum but seat the power in the Electours If so the power is not of GOD but of man contrar to Scripture Iohn 19. 11. Rom. 13. all that Electours have is the application And if it be theirs originally then they may depose a Pope by the Conclave For ejusdem est author are exauthorare That saying the King dieth not is meaned of hereditary Kings The Pope is not such and you will not say it For Elective Kings the Kingdom by his death wanteth a King as a Burgh doth a Provost If then the seat of the Pope vaiked so long the Church was headless for many years How make you out then the line of uninterrupted succession You come over again upon the call of our Reformers to which I answered formerly that oâ—r Ministers are called of GOD is proved by the success which some of them had in converting confirming convincing souls see Ier. 23. 32. they who runne unsent profit not at all but they have edified many and turned them from darkness to light We say not that the call of Luther and Calvin was immediat and wholly extraordinar But admit it were so it needed not miracles for the Baptist wrought no miracles yet was called extraordinarily What our Lord Jesus and the Apostles did that way are ours for use and aggravateth the sin of those who will not believe Gospel truths The place cited by you Iâ— 15. implyeth no more yet it is well known that Luther Calvin Knox Wishart Welsh Davidson were more then ordinar men and had the spirit of prophecie in some measure But we will not lay weight on these things seeing we have a more sure word of prophecie to which we are bound to take heed And this doth warrand us to purge out the old leaven with both out hands that we may become a new lump And no more is designed by our Reformation To conclude this then Our first Reformers had as lawful ordination as the Roman Kirk could give them And this is a strong argument ad hominem Secondly The power which that ordination gave them you say was to edification we are perswaded they made use of that in a Scripture way and edified more in one year then ye did in many If any man called to the work of the Gospel oppose the errours of many can that strengthen Sectaries Did not Paphnutius oppose a whole Council and was commended for it because he walked according to the rule and had Scripture on his side Did not Athanasius oppose the whole world almost turned Arrian and who ever blamed him for so doing The case is the same these called men adhered to the divine commission and opposed the errours of Popery Their praise therefore must be in all the Churches of Christ Question twelfth Ye are so broken amongst Papists Quest. your selves that ye look not like the primitive Christians who had one heart and way Answere first Our breaches are our burden before the Lord and a stroak upon us for Prote ∣ stants Ans 1 the abuse of that great Gospell-light under which we have long lived but not for coming out of Babylon Secondly Ye Papists are more divided Ans 2. for we all agree in doctrine and essentials but ye skirmish about that so frequently that if the â—udgment of the Roman Church be the sentence of your Church it is hard to know what people shall doe tyed to beleeve as your Church doth For sometime the Councill is put above the Pope sometime the Pope above the Councill The pragmatick sanction of France is allowed and subscrived by many cryed down by others Some will have a divine predetermination on the will others only morall swasion Some are for mediat concourse of the first cause with the second others for immediat If Unity be a convertible note of the Church ye are none Thirdly Perfect Unity in all things is not to be expected here so long as we know but Ans 3. in part 1. Cor. 13. 9. If whereto we have attained we walk by the same rule the Lord will reveal more to us in due time Phil. 3. 16. If any should have said that the Church of Corinth was not true because of some divisions or that therfore these of Corinth should return with the foolish Galatians to the covenant of workes it had been a Solecism in reason yet no greater then this to alleadge that some differences make us no Church Reply In your 12. Answer you grant your breaches amongst your selves as your burthen for the abuse of pure Gospel light How can Papists Reply ye all agree in Doctrine except in so far as the abuse of the Gospel which is to say true all the unity ye have Neither is it wonder ye do nor agree seeing ye do not acknowledge the high Bishop successour to St. Peter who as Hierom saith was chosen for this amongst the twelve that a head being constitute the occasion of Schism might be taken away Secondly You pretend that Catholick Romans are more divided then ye because sometime the Council is put above the Pope sometime the Pope above the Council But find you this as an article of the Catholick Church What ever hath been the opinion of sacred men yea of Fathers and Councils thereanent yet they were never confirmed nor owned by the Church for an Oecumenick decree And suppose both sentences were decided it is easily answered that the Pope is approved to be above a Council not approved by himself and a Council approved by a Pope is above a Pope alone wherein there is no disagreement or contradiction As for the pragniatick Sanction as it hath no reference to matters of faith so it maketh nothing for your purpose no more then praedetermination seeing all Catholicks who hold it think it taketh not away free-will But then you say perfect unity in all things is