canne as well receiue the ouer baptime whiche is the dippyng into the water in the name of Christe as the infantes of the Iewes could receyue the sacrament of circumcision Then are childer as well to be baptised as olde folke are to be preached vnto and to be baptised Ar we now so destitute of scripture to proue that infantes maye be baptysed that we are fayne to fly for helpe to original sinne Whē as I proue by that that chylder haue originall synne that they hadde nede of the bath of water and regeneration do I flye from scrypture is the matter of origynall synne no part of scripture you do holde that there is none at all and therefore that the childer nede not nother ought to be baptysed vntyll they be .xiiij. yeare olde before whiche tyme they haue done many actuall synnes whyche hadde nede to be wasshed awaye wyth the bath of baptime Therefore it is no meruell that ye exclude originall synne from scripture as a thing whiche can not be found in scripture In youre nexte question ye make as wise a reason agaynst me as ye dyd in the begynnynge of youre booke dyuerse times This is my reason that ye go aboute to confute and ouerthrowe As for the vse of water is to clenge and scoure thynges that are vncleane and sygnifyeth where it is brought that there is some thynge whyche nedeth to be made clene so in oure baptyme the water doth signifye vnto vs that there is some vnclennes and fylthynes in our nature that had nede to be washed For thys cause I may sett the water in our baptym for an argument agaynst them that say that men as soone as they be borne haue no originall synne But let vs se your argument agaynst thys my saying ☞ Is that a suffycyent cause to proue orygynall synn to be in infantes because ye offer them water ¶ I aunswer the baptim of infantes being lawfull godly as I do presuppose it thē the water of baptim which vnfaithfullye ye cal onli water leuing out of baptim must nedes signifi vnto childer that they are vnclene But when as they haue committed no actuall synne and are yet synnes it foloweth that they haue origynall synne excepte there be mo synnes then actuall and originall But nowe let vs heare youre hole argument wherewith ye intende to boxe me Is that a sufficient cause to proue originall synne to be in infantes because ye offer them water Then is it as sufficient to proue that the Turkes and Iewes wyth al the rest of the people of the worlde haue it not nor are infected therewyth because ye offer it not vnto them I aunswere vnto thys argument by shewyng the like how stronge and myghtye thys of yours is Preachyng of Gods worde presupposeth that ther where it is preached men are infected with originall and actual synne but ye offer no preaching of Gods word vnto the Iewes Turkes and vnto the rest of the infydeles in the world therfore ye recken that nether Turke nor Iew nether any other infydele hath ether originall or actuall synne If that ye thynke that all the aboue rehersed infideles haue both originall and actuall synne for all that ye offer them no preachynge so I thynke that the forsayd infydeles haue orygynall synne not withstandyng that I offer thē no water In your next reason ye presuppose it that I dyd neuer beleue sence I hadde anye knowledge in the scripture that is that the water of baptyme taketh awaye the vnclennes of the soule but well wot I that the holy ghoste worketh onelye that worke and no creature in the worlde I knowe that Christes hole baptyme that is both the outwarde and the inner together purgeth both bodye and soule And I do fynd in dyuerse places of the newe Testament that it hath pleased GOD to graunt forgyuenesse of synnes by the inwarde baptyme when the outward baptyme was ministred that the thyng signyfyed shulde agree wyth the outwarde signe and sygnyfycatyon Peter sayd in the second chap. of the actes Let euery one of you be baptysed in the name of Iesu Christe to the forgyuenes of synne and ye shall receyue the gyft of the holy ghost Peter also sayeth Acto x. What lette is there that these be not baptysed in water whyche haue receyued the holy ghoste as well as we And Luke telleth that the meany of Cornelius receyued the holy ghoste and were contynentie baptysed with water Ananias also in the .ix. of the actes sayeth vnto Paule Brother Saule the lorde whom thou sawest in the way hath sente me that thou shouldest receyue thy syght agayne and be fylled wyth the holy ghoste and immediatelye there fell from hys eyes as they had bene scales and he receyued hys syghte and rose was baptysed ye se now how that God ioyneth in hys word the two baptymes together so that the outwarde baptyme is not a vayne signe and to be dispysed as ye seme to do where as ye axe how can water he le the woundes of the soul But leaste ye saye that I alledge your mynde falsely I wyll rehearse your wordes as ye wrote thē ☞ But nowe I saye that all the worlde hath synned and is defyled in Adā Howe nowe wyll water scoure awaye the fylthe of thps corruptyon No. It is a wounde receiued in the soule and is washed away but wyth the only fayth in the bloude of Christ ¶ Ye say here that all the world hath synned and is defyled in Adam and yf ye meane no subtylte and vnderstande by the worlde both the electe and the other lykewyse ye graunte openly orygynalle synne whych in other places ye haue denied and do denye as hereafter we shall proue both by your saying and doynge If that all the world hath synned in Adam thē haue also yonge chyldren synned in the same and ye saye that the corruption of Adam can not be scoured awaye wyth anye thynge sauyng only wyth the fayth in the bloud of Christe Ye saye also that no chylde hath fayth and therfore call all infantes vnbeleuers It foloweth of youre sayenge that ye are of that opynyon that all the chyldrē which dyed sence the begynnynge of the worlde vnto thys daye dyed vnpurged from the fylth of the soule and wythout forgyuenes of origynall synne Whose rewarde seynge that it is the death of the soule and euerlastynge dampnatyō herevpon it maye be gathered that ye are of thys opynyon that all chylderen are in the state of dānatyon and that yf they dye they are all dampned For thys argument maye be clearelye and truely gathered of youre owne sayinge ¶ None shall be scoured frō the corruption of orygynall synne but suche as haue fayth in the bloude of Christe But all chylderne wante fayth in the bloude of Christe as ye teache both openlye and pryuelye Therfore by you no chylderne are scoured from the corruption of orygynall synne ¶ Wherevpon it foloweth yf these sayinges of Paule be true Euyll was
broughte by lynage into all men by the trespasse of one man vnto condemnatyon The rewarde of synne is death By Adam all men do dye and by one manne synne entred into the worlde and thorough synne death as farre furth as we haue all synned that all chyldern whych as ye holde are vnbeleuers and therefore can not be purged for lacke of fayth in Christes bloude muste nedes be damned Whych opinion howe wycked it is and howe contrarye vnto the holye scrypture lette the chyrch of CHRIST gyue sentence Haue ye not taught holsome lessons in youre boke wherof suche a damnable conclusyon foloweth Are ye not worthye to be dubbed a doctour of heresye If ye be not I can not tell who is Wher as ye say that water cā not scoure the soule because orygynall syn is a wounde receyued of the soule ye seme to mene that the bodye shall not be damned for orygynall synne as a thing that neuer receyued it Is it not agaynst iustyce that they shoulde be condemned together whych were not conioyned in the dede doynge that deserued damnation ¶ Ye holde in youre nexte sentence a maruelous opynyon whyche is thys It is to be vnderstande that thoughe synne be common to all yet baptyme is not common to all Whych sentence semeth not to be true For to whomsoeuer preaching is common to the same is also baptyme common For preachyng and baptysyng are ioyned and commaunded together in these wordes Euntes docete omnes gentes baptizantes eas Go and teache all natyons baptysyng them Then is baptyme as common as preaching is hut preachyng is common to all ▪ therfore is also baptyme common to all though all wyll not receyue it For a man hauinge seuerall grounde ynough of hys owne oft tymes putteth no cattell into the comon allthough hys parte is as commō vnto hym as vnto anye other man Are the feldes no more cōmon vnto a man after that he enioyeth no longer the profyte of the common feldes Answer me wyth scrypture as I do confute yow wyth scrypture and let your arrogant I says whyche ye haue wythin thre leues of the begynnyng of your booke in the stede of scrypture boldly brought in thre tymes goo shake theyr eares For thoughe ye haue inchaunted your wretched scholars so that they beleue that it is the gospel whatsoeuer ye say yet are ye in no such autoryte maister doctor with me that I wyll beleue your I say when as ye bryng neuer one text of scrypture to bylde your I say vpon Well I deny the doctor saye what he wyll and set these textes of the scripture agaynst hym Paule wryteth vnto the Romanes thus As by the trespas of one man euel was brought by lynage into all men to condēnation so by the rightuousnes of one good came vnto all men to the iustifycation of lyfe Then is iustifycation as comon as condemnatiō And baptym is as cōmon as iustifycatyon is then is baptyme common vnto as many as sinne is common to Saynt Ihon sayeth that Christ obteyned mercye for our synnes and not only for our synnes but for the synnes of the hole worlde Lo here is mercy and remyssyon of synnes as generall and as commō as synne is And baptyme is common to all to whome remissyon of synne is common for baptym is the seale of forgyuenes of synnes and so he that maketh the one common maketh also the other common youre meruelous sentence therefore will not stand with scripture Of lyke folyshnes is youre conclusyon that foloweth that is that baptyme is to be offered to all men yet is it not to be gyuen to all men nor to be taken of all men Whosoeuer offereth anye thynge to anye creature and intendeth not to gyue the same mocketh the creature as when the Popishe priest sayeth vnto hys parishoners Accipite comedite take ye and eate ye and gyueth them nothyng but eateth all hym selfe mocketh hys parishoners And ye captaynes of catabaptistrye offer baptyme vnto all chyldren and intend not to gyue it vnto them Therfore ye mocke all chylderne lyke as boyes mock yong byrdes and yong choughes whyles ye offer vnto thē baptyme whych ye neuer intende to gyue them ¶ For the confutacyon of the laste parte of your sayinge that is that baptyme is not to be taken of all men I aske you whether mortification and regeneracyon ought to be taken of all men or no If that mortificatyon and regeneratyon ought to be receyued of all men and true baptym is true mortifycation and perfyt regeneracyon then ought all men to receyue baptym That baptim is mortyfycacyon and regeneracion Paule beareth witnes to the Romanes in the sixt Chapter and vnto Titus the thyrd chapter and in other places whych I might here reherse if I thought not these sufficient And so is your sayng false that all men ought not to the baptysed But what if all men ought not to be baptised What hindereth that baptisyng of yōg childrē What if many wicked persones be not worthy to receiue the seal of saluaciō I mean the outward baptime because thei wilfulli willingly refuse mortification wtstand the word of God shal their vnworthines make the innocent childer whō Christ hath wasshed with his bloud vnmet vnworthy to receiue the sacramēt of saluatiō regeneratiō the seal of the promis which god made vnto thē Thē this sayng of yours that al mē ought not to receiue baptī proueth nothing that chylder ought not to be baptized here may al mē se that your ground that ye wold make is but sande falleth whē it is but lightly touched that the worke that ye wold bylde vpō your fundaciō can fynd no fast groūd to rest vpō Wherfore ye ar not lyke to prosper in your purpose baptim say ye is onli dew to the elect churche chosen in Christe Iesus before al worldes What maketh this agaynst the christening of yōg childer I thāk yow for ye help me with argumētes agaynste your false doctrine For if baptim be only dew vnto the elect churche chosen in Christ Iesus before al worldes then is baptim dew vnto al the mēbres sparkes of the same churche but chylder ar membres a part of the elect churche Therfore baptim is dew vnto thē What nede vs now to dispute any longer in this matter seyng that by your own sayēg baptim is dew vnto childer as the membres of Christes elect churche chosen befor the worldes Is baptim only dew to the elect and chosen if that be so your brether anabaptistes of munster did wrong whē they baptysed so many deuilishe and reprobat persones of your sect that they by theyr myght and strenght put down all lawfull magistrates and rulers there and set vp a Kyng among them selues which had .xvi. wyues were these murderers and dispisers of goddis ministers of the elect chyrche was thys kyng ryghtly regenerate and a mortifyer of hys membres vpon earth which had so many wymen to
infantes expressedly therefore chylderen ought not the baptysed If they be good argumentes then all the conclusiones that I gather are true and so ar ye a fals man and a perillons heretike When as ye say that By baptym alone is no saluation but by baptyme and preachyng I aske you whether ye meane hole baptyme that is bothe the inwarde and the outwarde baptym togyter or the outwarde baptyme a loue If ye meane of the inwarde baptym and outwarde bothe conioyned together ye hold an opē heresi agaynst the scripture for thus wrytethe the Apostell of CHRIST saynt Pet. j. Pet. iij. few sowles that is to wit eyght were saued in the arke throw the water to the figure where of baptyme at this tyme answering doth now lykewyse saue vs. Paul also the elect vessel of GOD gyueth vnto the right holy baptym clengyng and the hole man and also saluation Ephes v. husbandes loue your wyues as Christe hathe loued hys churche and gaue hym self for it that he myght hallow and clēge it by the bath of water thorow the word and Tit. iij. But after that the goodnes and loue of GOD oure sauioure towarde vs appered not of the workes that ar in the righteousnes which we did but accordynge vnto hys mercy saued vs throwe the bath of the new byrthe and the renewyng of the sprite Paule also graunteth that baptime is of suche effect that the receyuyng of it is the receyuing and puttynge on of Christ is not Christ saluation and doth not baptim bring Christ Paules wordes ar these As many of you as are baptised haue put Christ vpon you Then when as Peter doth expressedly gyueth saluation vnto baptim and Paule like wise your erroure is open and seene of all that haue any eyes to se withal The perfit baptim hath Christ it hath the holy gooste likewise for thei that ar rightly baptised haue the holy goste and Christ put vpō thē Is not this baptim able to saue alone wherin is Christ with his holy spirit if ye meane by this word baptim only the outward baptime I graunte you that by it commeth no saluation alone ye moreouer that it is no parte of saluation but that it is onely a signe a certification of our saluation But then ye shall in to right popistry for ye fall that of preachyng and baptyme meaning of outward baptime commeth saluation preachyng is a worke of mā in opening of goddes word and the outward baptim is an outward worke then if these twoo together bring saluation then workes bryng saluation How far are ye syr now from popistry whych call other men papistes farther from papistry then ye are nere vnto the verite Christ sayeth Mar. xvi He that beleueth and is baptised shall be saued but he sayeth not he that heareth the worde of god hath only the outward baptime layed vpon hym shall be saued ye haue be like authorite of youre woode spirite to make new textes of scripture and to bylde thereupon what ye lyst Other haue ye none If preaching baptim be the meanes to saue and damne the hole worlde by how proue you that baptime is ordened to damne men wythall let vs heare one word of scripture of you to proue this strange opinion withal But least any man shuld thinke that I reherse that ye neuer wrote I will write your awn wordes By baptime alone is no saluation but by preachyng baptim certaine it is that God is able to saue hys chosen Churche wythout thes meanes But thys is hys ordynary waye to saue and damne the whole worlde by namely by offerynge remyssion of synnes and baptime to all the worlde that thereby the beleuers maye be absolued from all conscience of synne and the disobedient and vnbeleuers bounde styll other to amende or to be damned for he that beleueth not is all redy damned The offeryng of remission of sinnes and of baptim is not the law whose office is to condēne but it is the glad tidinges whiche we cal the Gospel ye are so vnlearned and so foolyshe in your reasonyng that ye are vtterly vnworthy to be reasoned wythall so that it hath repented me ofte sence that I began to write that I troubled my selfe wyth such a bungler But leste your bablyng boosting shuld bringe any simple people out of the way I wyl not disdayne to opē your folishnes to bewray your abhominable heresies Saint Paul vnto the Romanes iij. sayeth by the law cummeth the knowlege of syn In the .iiij Capter he sayeth that the law worketh wrathe and in the seuenth chapter I haue not knowen sinne but throw the law so that it is the office of the law to shew syn and to condemne the worlde wherfore ye do against al scriptur to trāslate remoue the office of the lawe vnto the moste comfortable offeringe of remission of syn and to the most sure seale and signe of our saluatiō baptim is the ende or office of offering of remission of sinne is to saue make blessed for thei are blessed sayde Dauid whose sinnes ar forgiuen What is the Gospel or glad tidinges els but the offering of remission of synnes Did not Christ commaun hys disciples to preache repentaunce and that the kingdom of heauen was at hande dyd not the angel bring in the tydinges of peace was not remission of synne offered where peace was offered What other thyng did the Apostels els then offer remission of synne vnto theyr auditores Christe commaunded them to preache the Gospell and thys Gospel or gald tydinges was remission of synnes How can then the offerynge of the Gospell whyche was ordened to saue the worlde bee a meane to damne the worlde How can baptime whyche was ordened to bee an instrument of salmation be an instrument of damnation The offeryng of remission of synnes is the offerynge of an holsum medecine Baptime is as it were a confortatiue vsed to bee gyuen vnto the syk after purgations Who is he that hath the comon wyt that wyll saye yf a foolyshe syke man refuse an holsum medicine with a confortatiue and he die for lacke of medicine that the offerynge of the medicine wyth the confortatiue was the meanes whereby thys man came vnto hys deathe Yet doo ye thys whyle ye make the offerynge of remyssyon of synnes to bee the meanes whereby GOD dampneth and saueth all the worlde by If faith do iustifie as oft times ye graunt wyth open mouthe then doth infidelite condemne and it is the meane where by the worlde is condemned as Christ witnesseth he that beleueth not is condemned already Lo here is condemnation assigned vnto vnbeleue and nother to the offerynge of remission of sinne nother of baptime Then may it easely be spyed how vnlearnedly ye alleged thys text he that beleueth not is condemned already to proue that the offerynge of remyssyon of synnes and baptime is meanes bothe vnto saluation and condemnation namely when as Christe immediatly before shewed the meanes of saluation