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A65842 A brief discovery of the dangerous principles of John Horne (a priest in Lin) and Thomas Moore junior both teachers of the people called Mooreians or Manifestarians, (and called by some free-willers or independants.) In answer to their book called A brief discovery of the people called Quakers, and a warning to all people to beware of them and of their dangerous principles, &c. Which book is a false narrative of two disputes, the one which they had with John Whitehead at Gedney in Lincoln-shire, and the other with Geo. Whitehead and Geo. Fox the younger, at Lin in Norfolke, both in the seventh moneth, 1659. Also priest Horns testimony against his brethren the priests. This is to go amonst the professors in England in discovery of the truth; ... By the truth which is in George Whitehead. John Whitehead. George Fox the younger. Whitehead, George, 1636?-1723.; Whitehead, John, 1630-1696. aut; Fox, George, d. 1661. aut 1659 (1659) Wing W1896; ESTC R220960 30,510 44

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1 2. laying aside all malice and all guile mark all guile and hypocrisy the word and being his distinction he might as well say that envie is not malice because there is and between them but in that thing many saw his folly at the dispute in his affirming that all sin is not guile when as all guile doth only include one sin as he would have it but all sin and any one sin makes a man guilty and so he hath guile in him so that he that had no guile in him had no sin in him and also John Horne hath turned George Whiteheads words about this thing in saying that be said Guile is a transgression of the Law therefore guile is all sin which is falsely framed for the words were to this effect every trangression of the Law is guile or sin and all guile includes all transgression of the Law therefore every sin is guile and what sin can they prove had Nathaniel in him when he had no guile in him they must either prove some sin that was then in him or else see themselves confuted J. Horne and T. Moore in the 3. and 4. pages of their Book say That in the Declaration by Edward Burrough page 4. that we believe the Saints upon earth may be perfectly freed from the body of sin and death herein we are concluded to be Preachers of Lyes and Errors this they charge the Quakers with and yet they say We are compleat in Christ and by the Grace of Christ received shall be and may be here made perfect hearted with Christ but that some are sinlesse here neither Christ nor any Apostle or Prophet ever preached of any therefore the Quakers are deceivers Ans. Here they might as well have accused the true Prophets and Apostles with being Preachers of Lyes and deceivers for they witnessed to the same the Quakers witnesse to as said the Prophet blessed are the undefiled in the way mark undefiled in the way they also do no iniquity Psal. 119. 1 2 3. and saith the Lord ye shall be clean from all your filthinesse Ezek. 36. 25. and Christ exhorted his to be perfect as their heavenly Father is perfect Matt. 5. 48. and every one that is perfect shall be as his Lord and the same Apostle who said ye are compleat in Christ said in whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh Col. 2. 10 1. Now the same spirit in J. Horne and T. Moore that hath accused the Quakers with being deceivers for bearing witnesse to these Truths would have accused the true Prophets Christ and his Apostles for being deceivers but their confusion and railing against the Innocent is here made manifest who notwithstanding have confessed a compleatnesse and perfect heartednesse with Christ here and so in pleading for sin in this life are sighting against their own words for they who are compleat in Christ are perfectly freed from sin being compleat in Christ in whom there is no sin and know this that sinners are out of the compleatnesse which the Saints have in Christ and the heare that hath sin dwelling in it is not perfect much more might be said to this John Horne and Thomas Moore p. 3. to prove that they who have believed in Christ comes not to prove the first Adams state before the fall say that Adam before his fall had neither sin in him nor death upon but surely the Quakers must die as well as other mens Adam also before his fall was under a Covenant of works doe this and live and might possibly sin and dye but not so the believers Answ. Mark their heap of confusion here they own that the Believers in Christ are come to a further state or Covenant then Adam was in before the fall who then had no sin in him and yet have accused the Believers with having the body of sin or not being perfect while they are here and Adam might possibly sin and dye but not so the Believers they say And as for the Quakers dying because of which they would accuse them with being sinners here their darknesse appears for Believers dying the natural death doth not prove them sinners while they are here for through death they gain more of the Peace and Glory of God which they partake of in their life time and what doth John Horne believe that Adam might not have dyed the natural death if he had not sinned for Christ dyed who had no sin that he might destroy the death which came by sin and him that hath the power of it and they who dye in the Lord are blessed and to dye is gain unto them Phil. 1. 2● so that righteous mens dying was not charged upon them as a reward for their sin but witnessed to be gain unto them before whose decease their sins are done away and he that believeth hath everlasting life yet the wages of sin is death to them who are not freed from it by the gift of God which is life and God said to Adam in the day thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely dye but Adam lost not his natural life in the day he eat of the tree of knowledge for after that he lived in the body and as for the Covenant that Adam was under before the full it was a Covenant of life for he was in the image of God and a living soule having the breath of life in him and had dominion in it while he stood in his habitation and this state have the true Believers proved and witnessed that life and nature image that was in man before the fall though they be come further in the second Adam who is greater then the first Adam and as for Adam before the fall being under a Covenant of works do this and live as if he had not lived when he was in innocency till he did something to merit life you have here spoken ignorantly for that Covenant of works was established by the Law after the fall and the Law entered because of transgression till the Seed came which Seed destroyes sin and redeems the Creature out of the fall and out of the death which came by sin P. 4. And in their second charge against us called Quakers J. Horne and T. Moor have accused us to be reprobates concerning faith as touching he person of Christ for they say we did not nor could be brought to acknowledge that Christ is glorified in the heavens without all men the heavens above the clouds and distinct from the visible earth in the same body which suffered was crucified dead and buried c. And this have they questioned several times altering their own words and then in page 5. asking whether Christ hath any body of flesh and bones distinct from all other bodies and spirits of men to which they say we would by no means be drawn to give a direct answer But then mark how they have again contradicted themselves
truth of Christ In p. 14. John Horne and Moore have affirmed The Scriptures to be the Medium of Faith from John 17. 20. where it s said neither pray I for these alone but for them also which shall believe on me through their word and Acts 17. 11. 12. of the Bereans searching the Scriptures c. Answ. There is no such Scripture as saith that the Scriptures are the Medium of Faith for they through whose word many believed were not Ministers of the Letter but of the spirit and their Word was before the Letter or writing was and it came in Spirit and in Power and this Word which they Preached was nigh people even in their hearts Rom. 10. And as for the Bereans they first received the Word with all readiness of minde and then searched the Scriptures whether these things were so so it was the Word which brought them to believe and to search the Scriptures and so we say the Scriptures are truely to be believed and fulfilled but that which brings any truely to believe and fulfill them is Christ the Word the Author and finisher of faith unto whom they would not come for life who thought they had Eternal life in the Scriptures Joh. 5. 39 40. In pag. 15 John Horne and Thomas Moore have accused John Whitehead with saying that the Apostles did not bring light to men but onely pointed to what they had before Answ. John Whitehead doth witness against them for perverting his words as it hath been examined the words are not so affirmed by him but this we say that the Apostles did not bring another light to people then that which had enlightned them before they Preacht to them and though the light was more in the Apostles then in them they Preacht to yet it was the same in nature in both though known in several measures and they who will not own the light in the least measure of it in them they must not know the greater nor the glory which the light of Christ shining in the heart gives the knowledge of in them that receive it Again Horne and Moore say Indeed this is a main piece of corrupt Doctrine that we Preach that all have the light of Christ in them and that that is whatsoever reproves any sin in men Ans. Here they might as well have accused Christ and the Apostles for using corrupt Doctrine for Christ saith I am the light of the world and John said of him that was the true light which enlightneth every man that comes into the world and that which may be known of God is manifest in them who are in unrighteousness and like not to retain God in their knowledge Rom. 1. and the grace of God which bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men and this is the free gift of God which if it were not given to all men then wherefore shall the wicked be condemned and what is it in them that must leave them without excuse and who can you shew us that have not a light of Christ in them to reprove them when they have done evil And you have again here wickedly wronged us for we do not affirm that whatsoever reproves any sin is the light of Christ but whatsoever makes manifest things that are reproved is light and the light reproves every sin But such as you that are in deceit and out of the light do sometimes reprove sin when you live in it your selves but the light of Christ in you will reprove you for it Again in p. 16. You John Horn and Thomas Moore say That this way of ours exposes men to follow their own spirits which we represent as a candle in every man Answ. This is false for our way exposes men not to follow their own spirits nor sparkes of their own kindling as you say but to follow the light of Christ which lighteth the spirit of a man and makes it become the candle of the Lord that it enlightens the inward parts Another of your lies against us is where in pag. 17. you accuse George Whitehead with deriding at mens faith in the death and bloodshed of Christ beyond the Sea for they who truely have faith and hope through Christs sufferings which reacheth within the vail that is to say Christs flesh that faith we own as knowing the Word of it to be in the heart that we have it not to fetch beyond the Sea nor from above nor from beneath but it s nigh in the heart and in the mouth And to our question which was whether the light that lighteth every man be a natural light or a spiritual light You John Horne and T. Moore answers pag. 17. 18. That that light is Christ and the light with which he lighteth men is both natural and spiritual Reply Here again you are taken in your own snare for in your saying the light is both natural and spiritual mark it is not the lights are both natural and spiritual but the light is so here you could not prove one light that is both natural and spiritual and contrary to the Scriptures have you spoken for in Christ was life and the life was the light of men which is not natural but spiritual therefore this your errour may lie upon you In pag. 18. You say That for so much as all men receive not Christ and his light therefore all have not his light in them Answ. This is a poor Argument the Spirit of the Lord and the grace of God hath appeared in many who have resisted it and not received it and a measure of it is in such to condemn them as the Kingdom of God was in the Scribes and Pharisces and yet they received it not nor Christ when they hated him And to that of Isai. 8. 20. where it is said there is no light in them John Horne saith the word in the Hebrew is sometimes used to signifie the morning and we have read it no morning in stead of no light but then saith he Christ is called the morning Star so that if there be no morning light in man there is none of his light who is the morning light Answ. Here his ignorance appears again for the light of Christ shines in darkness in some before the morning and that led some to the arising of the Day-star in their Hearts and so the light of Christ who is the morning light to some appears as a Candle in the darkness to others and is not the morning light to them until they by it see the morning in them and the light which hath shined in darkness arising out of darkness so that the light of Christ is both the evening light and the morning light Page 19. Again John Horn and Thomas Moore have accused us with telling Mr. Townsend as they call him That the light was wholly departed from him Answ. Herein have you impudently belyed us for the words against Townsend are not so spoken but that from the light of God in his