in_o one_o sense_n he_o die_v as_o a_o mean_v effectual_a and_o in_o another_o sense_n not_o he_o die_v as_o a_o mean_v effectual_a thus_o that_o there_o be_v nothing_o more_o require_v on_o his_o part_n nor_o of_o he_o that_o shall_v perform_v or_o undertake_v the_o office_n of_o a_o mediator_n or_o maker_n of_o atonement_n for_o man_n so_o far_o the_o mean_n which_o christ_n exhibit_v in_o his_o death_n it_o be_v as_o effectual_a as_o effectualness_n itself_o or_o any_o efficacy_n whatsoever_o can_v be_v but_o if_o by_o effectual_a you_o mean_v such_o a_o mean_n which_o do_v take_v effect_n that_o be_v which_o do_v end_n and_o issue_n in_o the_o salvation_n of_o all_o so_o i_o affirm_v that_o christ_n die_v as_o a_o mean_v ineffectual_a mr._n symp._n i_o conceive_v that_o this_o answer_n of_o you_o be_v no_o answer_n at_o all_o to_o my_o argument_n my_o reason_n be_v this_o because_o i_o look_v upon_o all_o the_o posterity_n of_o adam_n not_o as_o believer_n or_o unbeliever_n but_o 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form_n and_o tenor_n of_o word_n wherein_o it_o be_v direct_v to_o i_o and_o so_o i_o have_v clear_o answer_v it_o for_o your_o proposition_n be_v that_o christ_n die_v neither_o as_o a_o mean_n effectual_a nor_o ineffectual_a and_o i_o have_v show_v how_o your_o conjunction_n be_v invalid_a and_o how_o and_o in_o what_o sense_n he_o die_v as_o a_o effectual_a mean_n and_o how_o not_o now_o if_o you_o will_v take_v away_o my_o answer_n you_o must_v prove_v that_o christ_n die_v in_o no_o sense_n as_o a_o mean_n effectual_a nor_o in_o any_o sense_n as_o a_o mean_n ineffectual_a for_o the_o salvation_n of_o all_o man_n mr_n ames_n sir_n the_o distinction_n of_o the_o respondent_fw-la be_v this_o that_o the_o death_n of_o christ_n be_v in_o a_o sense_n effectual_a for_o the_o salvation_n of_o all_o and_o in_o a_o sense_n not_o now_o you_o be_v to_o answer_v to_o what_o part_n of_o the_o distinction_n you_o please_v mr_n symp._n if_o the_o death_n of_o the_o lord_n jesus_n christ_n be_v not_o effectual_a for_o all_o in_o any_o sense_n than_o your_o answer_n be_v not_o good_a but_o the_o death_n of_o the_o lord_n jesus_n christ_n be_v not_o effectual_a for_o all_o in_o any_o sense_n ergo._n mr_n goodw._n prove_v your_o minor_a and_o you_o shall_v do_v well_o mr_n symps_n sir_n i_o desire_v you_o plain_o to_o show_v i_o in_o what_o sense_n it_o be_v effectual_a for_o it_o be_v a_o clear_a contradiction_n to_o say_v that_o the_o same_o thing_n shall_v be_v effectual_a and_o ineffectual_a also_o mr_n goodw._n i_o have_v explain_v it_o in_o part_n and_o shall_v be_v willing_a to_o do_v it_o yet_o more_o full_o in_o this_o sense_n therefore_o i_o say_v that_o the_o death_n of_o christ_n be_v effectual_a for_o all_o that_o be_v in_o case_n all_o man_n shall_v believe_v as_o i_o suppose_v they_o may_v have_v mean_n vouchsafe_v by_o god_n unto_o they_o for_o that_o end_n there_o need_v no_o more_o die_v nor_o atonement_n nor_o sacrifice_n for_o the_o salvation_n of_o all_o these_o man_n then_o that_o which_o jesus_n christ_n have_v already_o exhibit_v and_o perform_v but_o there_o be_v a_o virtue_n worth_n substance_n and_o what_o ever_o be_v requisite_a in_o a_o atonement_n or_o sacrifice_n for_o the_o salvation_n of_o all_o man_n but_o now_o if_o you_o respect_v the_o event_n or_o issue_n of_o this_o sacrifice_n and_o atonement_n that_o be_v whether_o all_o man_n come_v in_o time_n to_o be_v save_v by_o it_o or_o no_o in_o this_o sense_n it_o be_v ineffectual_a in_o point_n of_o event_n but_o it_o be_v most_o effectual_a every_o way_n in_o respect_n of_o intrinsical_a worth_a and_o value_n this_o be_v my_o clear_a sense_n mr_n symp._n i_o prove_v that_o christ_n do_v not_o die_v as_o a_o effectual_a mean_n for_o all_o or_o as_o a_o sacrifice_n for_o all_o man_n thus_o if_o god_n do_v not_o intend_v to_o give_v that_o to_o some_o without_o which_o he_o certain_o know_v that_o it_o can_v not_o be_v a_o effectual_a mean_n to_o all_o then_o jesus_n christ_n do_v not_o die_v as_o a_o effectual_a mean_n for_o all_o but_o god_n do_v not_o intend_v to_o give_v that_o to_o some_o without_o which_o it_o can_v not_o be_v a_o effectual_a mean_n to_o all_o and_o therefore_o on_o god_n part_n it_o be_v not_o a_o effectual_a mean_n to_o all_o mr_n goodw._n i_o answer_v brief_o to_o the_o major_a proposition_n or_o indeed_o to_o either_o that_o the_o efficacy_n of_o the_o death_n of_o christ_n for_o all_o man_n it_o do_v not_o at_o all_o depend_v nor_o have_v it_o any_o relation_n to_o any_o intention_n in_o god_n otherwise_o that_o be_v either_o to_o give_v this_o or_o that_o to_o any_o man_n or_o unto_o all_o man_n which_o shall_v make_v it_o de_fw-fr facto_fw-la or_o eventual_o effectual_a to_o all_o but_o the_o efficacy_n of_o the_o death_n of_o christ_n be_v to_o be_v measure_v and_o judge_v of_o by_o the_o intrinsical_a and_o essential_a value_n and_o worth_n of_o it_o and_o not_o by_o any_o thing_n that_o god_n shall_v do_v in_o any_o 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the_o head_n of_o this_o argument_n and_o that_o your_o sense_n mr_n goodwin_n be_v this_o that_o the_o death_n and_o passion_n of_o jesus_n christ_n do_v carry_v in_o it_o worth_a and_o merit_n every_o way_n sufficient_a for_o the_o salvation_n of_o all_o those_o that_o shall_v by_o faith_n through_o grace_n lay_v hold_v upon_o it_o and_o that_o there_o be_v also_o a_o sufficiency_n in_o it_o even_o for_o those_o who_o die_v in_o their_o unbelief_n and_o i_o humble_o conceive_v that_o this_o do_v not_o at_o all_o cross_a the_o learned_a opponent_n sense_n mr_n goodw._n i_o shall_v be_v very_o glad_a that_o he_o and_o i_o can_v meet_v together_o in_o this_o mr_n ames_n sir_n i_o suppose_v mr_n sympson_n your_o sense_n be_v
that_o express_o and_o punctual_o in_o the_o letter_n affirm_v that_o he_o die_v for_o all_o therefore_o clear_v it_o be_v at_o least_o thus_o far_o that_o all_o those_o argument_n which_o be_v bring_v from_o the_o scripture_n to_o prove_v the_o contrary_a they_o must_v be_v found_v and_o build_v upon_o the_o discussion_n issue_n and_o giving_n out_o of_o the_o reason_n and_o apprehension_n of_o man_n mr._n symp._n i_o crave_v leave_n to_o add_v one_o word_n in_o answer_n to_o what_o you_o have_v speak_v for_o the_o first_o thing_n i_o shall_v not_o speak_v much_o to_o it_o but_o shall_v show_v of_o what_o necessity_n this_o point_n be_v i_o hope_v in_o the_o prosecution_n of_o our_o discourse_n but_o second_o whereas_o you_o seem_v to_o work_v upon_o the_o people_n by_o tell_v they_o that_o you_o be_v former_o of_o that_o opinion_n and_o judgement_n which_o i_o stand_v here_o to_o maintain_v i_o shall_v only_o say_v this_o and_o leave_v it_o with_o you_o that_o master_n goodwin_n be_v not_o the_o first_o man_n that_o have_v hold_v forth_o the_o truth_n of_o jesus_n christ_n and_o afterward_o depart_v from_o it_o but_o then_o whereas_o you_o say_v that_o christ_n die_v for_o all_o be_v from_o express_a scripture_n and_o that_o the_o contrary_n must_v be_v infer_v only_o by_o reason_n and_o argument_n this_o be_v the_o business_n of_o our_o dispute_n and_o therefore_o you_o ought_v not_o without_o liberty_n to_o have_v speak_v to_o it_o mr._n goodwin_n sir_n you_o impose_v a_o great_a necessity_n upon_o i_o to_o return_v a_o word_n or_o two_o unto_o you_o you_o inform_v this_o people_n with_o as_o much_o disparagement_n and_o uningenuity_n as_o likely_a can_v be_v in_o so_o many_o word_n by_o tell_v they_o that_o i_o be_v not_o the_o first_o man_n that_o depart_v from_o the_o faith_n of_o jesus_n christ_n to_o a_o heterodox_n faith_n and_o opinion_n wherein_o you_o certain_o triumph_v before_o the_o battle_n and_o cry_v victoria_fw-la before_o you_o put_v on_o your_o 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that_o it_o be_v a_o error_n which_o you_o maintain_v that_o christ_n die_v for_o all_o the_o posterity_n of_o adam_n and_o that_o it_o be_v a_o truth_n that_o he_o die_v in_o a_o particular_a manner_n for_o some_o and_o therefore_o according_a to_o my_o apprehension_n i_o can_v but_o deal_v plain_o and_o ingenuous_o by_o you_o to_o tell_v you_o in_o the_o presence_n of_o god_n that_o if_o you_o do_v first_o hold_v this_o and_o afterward_o depart_v from_o it_o that_o then_o you_o forsake_v the_o truth_n to_o embrace_v a_o error_n but_o because_o reply_n will_v be_v infinitum_fw-la will_n you_o please_v sir_n to_o pitch_v upon_o a_o moderator_n a_o indifferent_a man_n who_o may_v judge_v of_o our_o syllogism_n and_o keep_v we_o to_o the_o question_n mr._n goodwin_n i_o suppose_v his_o interest_n who_o ever_o he_o be_v will_v be_v only_o to_o see_v the_o disputation_n fair_o carry_v and_o that_o the_o reason_n and_o arguing_n to_o and_o fro_o be_v pertinent_a and_o close_o and_o direct_v to_o the_o point_n in_o hand_n and_o therefore_o to_o i_o its_o all_o of_o one_o and_o the_o same_o consideration_n who_o be_v the_o man_n that_o shall_v undertake_v it_o two_o moderator_n choose_v mr._n griffith_n and_o mr._n ames_n mr._n symp._n if_o you_o please_v we_o shall_v desire_v one_o of_o the_o moderator_n to_o speak_v a_o word_n unto_o the_o lord_n for_o it_o be_v the_o rule_n of_o the_o apostle_n to_o do_v all_o thing_n in_o the_o name_n of_o the_o lord_n jesus_n and_o unto_o god_n by_o he_o mr._n ames_n then_o pray_v etc._n etc._n and_o afterward_o the_o dispute_n proceed_v thus_o mr._n symp._n sir_n this_o be_v your_o position_n as_o i_o have_v receive_v it_o from_o the_o hand_n of_o mr._n powel_n which_o i_o intend_v by_o the_o assistance_n of_o the_o lord_n to_o oppose_v that_o jesus_n christ_n on_o god_n part_n and_o on_o his_o own_o part_n in_o his_o death_n die_v intentional_o to_o save_v all_o the_o posterity_n of_o adam_n be_v this_o the_o position_n that_o you_o 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that_o i_o be_o put_v upon_o it_o to_o speak_v mr._n goodw._n sir_n i_o conceive_v a_o pardon_n be_v only_o in_o case_n of_o offence_n and_o transgression_n but_o i_o know_v none_o that_o you_o have_v commit_v in_o what_o you_o have_v now_o speak_v only_o i_o suppose_v that_o the_o interposition_n of_o that_o word_n equal_o will_v not_o so_o much_o model_n the_o question_n as_o multiply_v question_n and_o of_o one_o it_o will_v beget_v many_o for_o to_o inquire_v whether_o christ_n die_v equal_o for_o all_o it_o seem_v to_o import_v this_o not_o only_o whether_o christ_n in_o the_o first_o and_o primary_n intention_n of_o his_o death_n do_v intend_v the_o salvation_n of_o all_o man_n but_o whither_o notwithstanding_o any_o difference_n that_o shall_v arise_v in_o man_n from_o themselves_o in_o the_o course_n of_o their_o life_n and_o conversation_n afterward_o whether_o yet_o after_o any_o such_o difference_n as_o for_o example_n after_o their_o apostasy_n or_o commit_v the_o sin_n 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mr._n goodw._n for_o the_o present_a i_o shall_v not_o distinguish_v but_o deny_v your_o minor_n i_o shall_v have_v opportunity_n to_o distinguish_v it_o afterward_o in_o the_o prosecution_n mr._n symp._n the_o proposition_n to_o be_v prove_v be_v this_o that_o jesus_n christ_n do_v not_o die_v as_o a_o mean_n for_o the_o salvation_n of_o all_o man_n which_o i_o prove_v thus_o if_o he_o die_v as_o a_o mean_n of_o the_o salvation_n of_o all_o man_n he_o die_v as_o a_o effectual_a or_o as_o a_o ineffectual_a mean_n but_o jesus_n christ_n neither_o die_v as_o a_o effectual_a nor_o as_o a_o ineffectual_a and_o therefore_o he_o do_v not_o die_v as_o a_o mean_n at_o all_o mr._n goodw._n i_o answer_v by_o distinguish_v of_o your_o minor_a proposition_n
as_o the_o actual_a blind_n of_o man_n etc._n etc._n until_o they_o themselves_o have_v contract_v the_o most_o notorious_a and_o horrid_a guilt_n of_o wilful_a sin_n and_o disobedience_n against_o he_o the_o decree_n of_o god_n concern_v the_o creature_n before_o the_o creature_n be_v in_o be_v these_o be_v in_o himself_o absolute_a and_o peremptory_a so_o that_o i_o suppose_v a_o absolute_a decree_n in_o god_n from_o eternity_n but_o the_o execution_n of_o this_o his_o decree_n be_v according_a to_o the_o state_n and_o condition_n wherein_o the_o creature_n shall_v be_v find_v mr._n symp._n will_v you_o grant_v that_o there_o be_v a_o eternal_a decree_n in_o god_n concern_v some_o particular_a person_n that_o they_o shall_v be_v blind_v from_o himself_o and_o yet_o that_o the_o same_o god_n from_o all_o eternity_n shall_v decree_v that_o the_o death_n of_o the_o lord_n jesus_n christ_n shall_v be_v a_o effectual_a mean_n for_o these_o man_n salvation_n mr._n goodw._n if_o you_o please_v sir_n you_o whole_o mistake_v my_o answer_n in_o that_o and_o be_v altogether_o beside_o it_o and_o how_o then_o be_v it_o possible_a for_o you_o to_o argue_v to_o the_o edification_n of_o the_o people_n my_o answer_n be_v not_o that_o god_n decree_v from_o eternity_n to_o give_v or_o not_o to_o give_v to_o any_o particular_a person_n the_o mean_n of_o grace_n or_o of_o believe_v but_o that_o his_o decree_n be_v not_o to_o give_v to_o such_o a_o species_n or_o if_o you_o will_v to_o such_o a_o sort_n or_o kind_n of_o man_n not_o to_o these_o man_n or_o to_o those_o that_o prove_v in_o time_n to_o be_v of_o that_o sort_n and_o kind_n that_o be_v not_o my_o meaning_n but_o that_o god_n from_o eternity_n decree_v that_o such_o and_o such_o a_o sort_n of_o man_n who_o have_v advance_v and_o make_v long_a progress_n in_o way_n of_o sin_n and_o disobedience_n that_o these_o shall_v be_v divest_v of_o that_o capacity_n of_o believe_v which_o be_v sometime_o vest_v in_o they_o as_o 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the_o mean_n of_o grace_n and_o of_o believe_v but_o this_o do_v not_o suppose_v that_o such_o or_o such_o person_n personal_o consider_v who_o fall_v under_o these_o decree_n of_o his_o that_o they_o be_v any_o way_n decree_v or_o determine_v by_o he_o to_o be_v deny_v the_o mean_n of_o grace_n from_o eternity_n or_o to_o fall_v under_o this_o his_o decree_n mr._n symp._n if_o god_n have_v decree_v that_o some_o particular_a person_n shall_v not_o believe_v but_o that_o they_o shall_v be_v blind_v by_o himself_o from_o all_o eternity_n and_o that_o not_o in_o consideration_n of_o their_o sin_n and_o wretchedness_n then_o your_o answer_n be_v not_o sufficient_a to_o my_o argument_n but_o god_n from_o all_o eternity_n have_v decree_v that_o some_o particular_a man_n shall_v not_o believe_v but_o that_o they_o shall_v be_v blind_v and_o therefore_o your_o answer_n be_v not_o sufficient_a mr._n goodw._n i_o deny_v your_o minor_a proposition_n god_n do_v not_o decree_n from_o eternity_n against_o any_o particular_a person_n that_o without_o relation_n to_o their_o sin_n they_o shall_v be_v blind_v or_o make_v uncapable_a of_o believe_v mr._n symp._n the_o proposition_n which_o i_o be_o to_o prove_v be_v this_o that_o god_n do_v intend_v that_o some_o particular_a person_n shall_v not_o believe_v from_o all_o eternity_n and_o for_o this_o i_o shall_v give_v you_o several_a scripture_n the_o first_o be_v that_o jude_n 4._o for_o there_o be_v certain_a man_n creep_v in_o unaware_o who_o be_v before_o of_o old_a ordain_v to_o this_o condemnation_n ungodly_a man_n turn_v the_o grace_n of_o god_n unto_o lasciviousness_n etc._n etc._n mr._n goodw._n your_o argument_n from_o this_o scripture_n mr._n symp._n if_o there_o be_v some_o ordain_v from_o eternity_n to_o condemnation_n not_o in_o consideration_n of_o any_o sin_n or_o if_o they_o be_v ordain_v to_o this_o ungodliness_n here_o speak_v of_o then_o do_v god_n from_o eternity_n intend_v that_o some_o particular_a person_n shall_v not_o believe_v but_o there_o be_v some_o ordain_v from_o eternity_n to_o this_o condemnation_n not_o in_o reference_n or_o consideration_n of_o their_o sin_n and_o therefore_o god_n intend_v that_o some_o particular_a person_n shall_v be_v blind_v and_o not_o be_v able_a to_o believe_v mr._n goodwin_n read_v the_o word_n mr._n symp._n i_o query_n here_o two_o thing_n first_o whether_o god_n do_v ordain_v they_o from_o eternity_n to_o this_o condemnation_n or_o second_o if_o not_o whether_o he_o ordain_v they_o to_o these_o sin_n one_o of_o these_o two_o must_v needs_o be_v the_o meaning_n of_o this_o scritpure_a mr._n goodw._n i_o have_v tell_v you_o already_o in_o what_o sense_n these_o man_n and_o so_o all_o like_a to_o they_o be_v ordain_v of_o old_a unto_o condemnation_n if_o by_o old_a you_o will_v understand_v eternity_n which_o can_v be_v prove_v to_o be_v the_o meaning_n of_o the_o word_n in_o this_o place_n but_o rather_o it_o be_v to_o be_v understand_v as_o some_o interpret_v it_o of_o the_o old_a testament_n yet_o if_o by_o old_a you_o understand_v eternity_n it_o will_v not_o follow_v from_o hence_o that_o these_o person_n personal_o consider_v be_v ordain_v to_o condemnation_n from_o eternity_n that_o be_v together_o irrelative_a i_o grant_v that_o god_n do_v decree_n and_o ordain_v from_o eternity_n or_o of_o old_a that_o these_o man_n that_o be_v such_o as_o these_o be_v and_o so_o these_o person_n too_o in_o a_o consequential_a way_n they_o be_v ordain_v to_o this_o condemnation_n by_o god_n but_o its_o clear_a from_o this_o scripture_n that_o the_o reason_n or_o that_o which_o make_v they_o to_o fall_v under_o this_o ordination_n of_o his_o it_o be_v their_o ungodliness_n or_o turn_v the_o grace_n of_o god_n into_o laciviousnesse_n now_o if_o you_o can_v prove_v that_o god_n do_v ordain_v of_o old_a that_o these_o man_n by_o name_n shall_v be_v ungodly_a and_o shall_v turn_v the_o grace_n of_o god_n into_o laciviousnesse_n then_o and_o not_o till_o then_o do_v you_o take_v away_o my_o answer_n mr._n symp._n there_o be_v diverse_a thing_n in_o your_o answer_n first_o that_o the_o apostle_n speak_v of_o particular_a person_n it_o be_v plain_a mr._n goodw._n i_o grant_v that_o but_o he_o do_v not_o speak_v of_o they_o in_o that_o consideration_n as_o they_o be_v thomas_n or_o william_n or_o the_o like_a but_o because_o they_o be_v man_n of_o such_o a_o demerit_n and_o under_o such_o and_o such_o sin_n and_o provocation_n mr._n symp._n this_o be_v your_o answer_n you_o say_v they_o be_v ordain_v to_o condemnation_n but_o it_o be_v upon_o this_o consideration_n that_o they_o shall_v be_v ungodly_a men._n mr._n goodw._n this_o be_v not_o my_o answer_n for_o i_o say_v that_o the_o ordination_n of_o god_n be_v irrellative_a and_o have_v no_o respect_n or_o dependence_n upon_o any_o man_n righteousness_n or_o unrighteousness_n the_o decree_n be_v pass_v with_o god_n and_o state_v and_o establish_v in_o himself_o before_o any_o thing_n be_v in_o be_v as_o touch_v the_o godliness_n or_o ungodliness_n of_o man_n but_o this_o be_v that_o which_o i_o say_v that_o the_o tenor_n and_o import_v of_o this_o decree_n of_o his_o be_v this_o that_o not_o any_o particular_a man_n no_o not_o these_o more_o than_o other_o shall_v be_v ordain_v to_o condemnation_n but_o that_o these_o or_o whosoever_o else_o shall_v fall_v into_o the_o same_o course_n of_o disobedience_n and_o unworthiness_n they_o shall_v be_v all_o condemn_v mr._n ames_n sir_n i_o humble_o desire_v you_o in_o behalf_n of_o the_o people_n that_o whereas_o you_o be_v please_v even_o now_o to_o assert_v the_o eternal_a decree_n of_o god_n concern_v the_o creature_n before_o the_o foundation_n of_o the_o world_n be_v lay_v and_o now_o seem_v to_o hint_n a_o difference_n even_o in_o those_o eternal_a decree_n i_o
have_v say_v something_o to_o it_o but_o this_o have_v be_v answer_v before_o he_o do_v not_o say_v here_o in_o these_o word_n that_o the_o purpose_n of_o god_n according_a to_o election_n may_v stand_v concern_v esau_n and_o jacob_n personal_o or_o particular_o but_o that_o purpose_n of_o god_n according_a to_o election_n whereof_o he_o here_o speak_v respect_v universal_o the_o whole_a world_n and_o the_o reason_n why_o jacob_n and_o esau_n be_v here_o mention_v and_o so_o the_o reason_n of_o what_o be_v say_v to_o the_o mother_n of_o they_o when_o she_o be_v big_a with_o they_o it_o be_v by_o way_n of_o confirmation_n of_o the_o decree_n of_o god_n from_o eternity_n touch_v the_o whole_a world_n for_o it_o be_v clear_a the_o child_n be_v not_o yet_o bear_v neither_o have_v do_v any_o good_a or_o evil_n that_o the_o purpose_n of_o god_n according_a to_o election_n may_v stand_v he_o do_v not_o say_v that_o any_o decree_n of_o election_n or_o purpose_n of_o god_n about_o election_n 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mr_n moderator_n you_o see_v what_o liberty_n mr_n goodwin_n take_v in_o hold_v forth_o his_o opinion_n he_o have_v deliver_v his_o thought_n and_o i_o desire_v that_o i_o may_v have_v the_o same_o liberty_n to_o deliver_v my_o thought_n and_o what_o i_o hold_v concern_v election_n and_o reprobation_n mr_n ames_n mr_n sympson_n if_o you_o please_v to_o discourse_v from_o the_o 11_o and_o 12._o verse_n and_o show_v by_o a_o necessary_a consequence_n that_o god_n purpose_n and_o decree_n do_v mind_n from_o eternity_n particular_a person_n then_o shall_v you_o direct_o oppose_v the_o answer_n which_o the_o learned_a opponent_n have_v give_v mr_n symps_n for_o that_o i_o have_v plain_o hold_v it_o forth_o and_o my_o argument_n be_v not_o yet_o answer_v i_o say_v that_o jacob_n and_o esau_n be_v particular_a person_n and_o that_o the_o decree_n of_o god_n respect_v they_o and_o that_o before_o they_o have_v do_v either_o good_a or_o evil_n that_o he_o love_v the_o one_o before_o he_o have_v do_v any_o good_a and_o hate_v the_o other_o before_o he_o have_v do_v any_o evil_n and_o therefore_o the_o decree_n of_o god_n do_v not_o respect_v sort_n or_o kind_n of_o man_n but_o particular_a person_n and_o that_o there_o be_v a_o particular_a number_n of_o man_n who_o god_n do_v love_n from_o eternity_n not_o from_o any_o fore-seen_a faith_n or_o work_n in_o they_o and_o that_o there_o be_v a_o particular_a number_n of_o man_n who_o be_v reprobate_v from_o eternity_n not_o in_o consideration_n of_o any_o sin_n or_o unbelief_n find_v in_o they_o this_o be_v that_o which_o i_o hold_v out_o even_o a_o eternal_a decree_n of_o god_n concern_v the_o salvation_n of_o particular_a person_n not_o in_o consideration_n of_o faith_n or_o holiness_n in_o they_o but_o mere_o from_o his_o own_o love_n or_o bené_fw-fr placitum_fw-la that_o be_v the_o ground_n of_o his_o election_n god_n do_v not_o choose_v man_n because_o he_o fore-sees_a that_o they_o will_v be_v holy_a but_o he_o do_v therefore_o choose_v they_o that_o they_o may_v be_v holy_a as_o the_o apostle_n do_v plain_o make_v it_o out_o to_o we_o in_o ephes_n 1._o 4_o 5._o where_o it_o be_v say_v that_o we_o be_v elect_v in_o christ_n jesus_n that_o we_o may_v be_v holy_a so_o that_o no_o holiness_n or_o faith_n or_o any_o thing_n in_o the_o creature_n be_v the_o ground_n of_o elect_v of_o any_o person_n but_o only_o the_o will_n of_o god_n who_o work_v all_o thing_n say_v the_o apostle_n according_a to_o the_o counsel_n of_o his_o own_o will_n and_o therefore_o say_v christ_n i_o thank_v thou_o o_o father_n lord_n of_o heaven_n and_o earth_n that_o thou_o have_v hide_v these_o thing_n from_o the_o wise_a and_o prudent_a and_o have_v reveal_v they_o unto_o babe_n and_o when_o he_o have_v do_v so_o he_o lay_v down_o no_o other_o reason_n but_o this_o even_o so_o o_o father_n because_o it_o please_v thou_o and_o so_o likewise_o the_o apostle_n in_o rom._n 8._o in_o that_o golden_a chain_n of_o call_v and_o justification_n and_o glorification_n he_o do_v not_o make_v they_o antecedent_n to_o election_n as_o they_o who_o hold_v universal_a redemption_n do_v but_o consequence_n of_o election_n and_o this_o be_v the_o point_n which_o i_o desire_v liberty_n to_o prove_v namely_o that_o there_o be_v some_o particular_a person_n hate_v of_o god_n from_o all_o eternity_n and_o that_o there_o be_v other_o love_v of_o god_n from_o eternity_n and_o that_o god_n do_v real_o intend_v the_o salvation_n of_o the_o one_o by_o the_o death_n of_o christ_n and_o not_o in_o good_a earnest_a the_o salvation_n of_o the_o other_o but_o rather_o the_o aggravation_n of_o their_o condemnation_n thereby_o mr._n ames_n here_o have_v be_v much_o liberty_n of_o speak_v and_o it_o be_v now_o desire_a that_o you_o will_v betake_v yourselves_o to_o a_o more_o strict_a way_n of_o disputation_n mr_n goodwin_n we_o humble_o desire_v a_o answer_n to_o those_o three_o verse_n in_o rom._n 9_o 11_o 12_o 13._o from_o whence_o 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for_o all_o the_o posterity_n of_o adam_n my_o argument_n be_v this_o christ_n do_v not_o die_v to_o save_v those_o who_o his_o father_n have_v actual_o damn_v before_o he_o suffer_v but_o there_o be_v some_o that_o be_v actual_o damn_v before_o jesus_n christ_n suffer_v death_n and_o therefore_o god_n the_o father_n in_o the_o death_n of_o his_o son_n do_v not_o intend_v the_o salvation_n of_o all_o man_n mr_n goodwin_n i_o absolute_o deny_v your_o major_a proposition_n for_o it_o hold_v as_o effectual_o against_o those_o who_o die_v in_o the_o faith_n of_o jesus_n christ_n as_o those_o who_o die_v in_o their_o unbeleef_n if_o the_o death_n of_o christ_n only_o wrought_v forward_o mr_n simpson_n i_o prove_v the_o proposition_n that_o god_n do_v not_o intend_v the_o salvation_n of_o those_o who_o
be_v say_v to_o intend_v thing_n because_o he_o put_v forth_o himself_o by_o mean_n of_o that_o infinite_a perfection_n of_o his_o be_v after_o such_o a_o manner_n for_o the_o bring_v to_o pass_v of_o such_o and_o such_o effect_n as_o man_n do_v when_o they_o intend_v any_o thing_n for_o example_n when_o a_o man_n intend_v any_o thing_n this_o in_o his_o course_n he_o project_n mean_n or_o set_v afoot_a and_o engage_v himself_o in_o such_o or_o such_o a_o way_n for_o the_o effect_n of_o what_o he_o intend_v which_o be_v apt_a and_o proper_a to_o effect_v it_o and_o in_o this_o sense_n i_o affirm_v that_o god_n intend_v the_o salvation_n of_o all_o because_o he_o afford_v &_o exhibit_v mean_n proper_a for_o the_o salvation_n of_o all_o by_o the_o death_n of_o christ_n and_o therefore_o by_o the_o way_n it_o will_v not_o follow_v that_o in_o case_n the_o salvation_n of_o all_o man_n be_v not_o actual_o effect_v that_o therefore_o god_n fail_v and_o miscarry_v in_o his_o intention_n and_o the_o reason_n be_v because_o what_o ever_o be_v attribute_v to_o god_n which_o be_v borrow_v from_o man_n as_o wisdom_n love_n hatred_n and_o a_o thousand_o such_o thing_n they_o be_v only_o attribute_v to_o he_o by_o way_n of_o effect_n and_o not_o by_o way_n of_o affect_v or_o of_o any_o formal_a existence_n or_o be_v in_o god_n for_o there_o be_v no_o such_o thing_n as_o love_n or_o hatred_n or_o wisdom_n in_o he_o to_o speak_v proper_o but_o god_n by_o mean_n of_o his_o pure_a and_o simple_a essence_n he_o be_v these_o and_o all_o these_o eminent_o and_o transcendent_o but_o none_o of_o they_o formal_o that_o be_v in_o such_o a_o propriety_n of_o their_o several_a nature_n as_o wherein_o they_o be_v find_v in_o man_n and_o in_o angel_n too_o they_o be_v not_o in_o the_o divine_a nature_n upon_o any_o such_o account_n as_o they_o be_v in_o man_n so_o that_o when_o we_o say_v god_n intend_v the_o salvation_n of_o all_o man_n we_o suppose_v that_o god_n do_v that_o or_o behave_v himself_o upon_o such_o term_n and_o in_o such_o a_o way_n as_o man_n do_v when_o they_o intend_v any_o thing_n yet_o not_o so_o that_o god_n do_v all_o thing_n or_o every_o thing_n that_o man_n do_v under_o their_o intention_n it_o be_v sufficient_a according_a to_o the_o common_a notion_n of_o all_o divine_n that_o similitude_n be_v good_a and_o serviceable_a to_o their_o end_n if_o they_o hold_v in_o any_o one_o particular_a though_o they_o fall_v short_a and_o vary_v in_o a_o thousand_o other_o as_o for_o example_n if_o god_n do_v any_o one_o thing_n by_o mean_n of_o the_o death_n of_o christ_n which_o man_n be_v wont_a to_o do_v ordinary_o upon_o their_o intention_n than_o i_o suppose_v the_o doctrine_n be_v true_a and_o will_v stand_v good_a that_o god_n do_v intend_v the_o salvation_n of_o all_o and_o therefore_o as_o man_n when_o they_o intend_v many_o thing_n they_o do_v not_o always_o intend_v they_o upon_o the_o high_a and_o most_o absolute_a term_n but_o they_o may_v real_o and_o true_o be_v say_v to_o intend_v they_o if_o they_o can_v be_v obtain_v by_o such_o and_o such_o mean_n as_o for_o example_n to_o purchase_v a_o house_n a_o man_n may_v intend_v it_o if_o he_o can_v have_v it_o upon_o reasonable_a term_n and_o such_o as_o become_v a_o prudent_a man_n to_o give_v for_o it_o but_o it_o do_v not_o follow_v that_o therefore_o he_o will_v give_v out_o of_o reason_n for_o it_o or_o such_o a_o price_n that_o shall_v declare_v he_o to_o be_v a_o fool_n or_o a_o man_n inconsiderate_a in_o his_o way_n and_o so_o god_n intend_v the_o salvation_n of_o all_o by_o the_o death_n of_o christ_n so_o far_o as_o to_o give_v mean_n unto_o all_o which_o be_v equitable_a and_o agreeable_a to_o his_o wisdom_n for_o their_o salvation_n not_o that_o he_o do_v intend_v by_o way_n of_o decree_n for_o the_o decree_n of_o god_n if_o we_o take_v the_o word_n strict_o they_o be_v absolute_a and_o unchangeable_a and_o he_o will_v engage_v his_o mighty_a power_n to_o effect_v they_o as_o the_o resurrection_n of_o the_o dead_a and_o the_o glorification_n of_o all_o those_o who_o shall_v live_v and_o die_v in_o the_o faith_n of_o his_o son_n these_o be_v so_o decree_v by_o god_n that_o all_o the_o interposing_n of_o all_o creature_n can_v never_o hinder_v the_o execution_n of_o they_o but_o now_o those_o thing_n which_o be_v proper_o intend_v by_o god_n they_o be_v not_o intend_v so_o to_o be_v procure_v as_o by_o the_o omnipotency_n of_o his_o arm_n and_o the_o exert_n and_o put_v forth_o of_o his_o mighty_a power_n to_o the_o utmost_a but_o by_o such_o mean_n as_o be_v agreeable_a to_o his_o wisdom_n and_o to_o that_o kind_n of_o creature_n who_o salvation_n be_v intend_v by_o he_o and_o this_o be_v the_o clear_a sense_n of_o my_o opinion_n touch_v the_o intention_n of_o god_n about_o the_o death_n of_o christ_n m._n powell_n i_o shall_v take_v hold_n of_o nothing_o in_o this_o discourse_n but_o only_o this_o one_o thing_n whether_o do_v the_o lord_n intend_v the_o salvation_n of_o all_o adam_n posterity_n conditional_o or_o absolute_o m._n goodwin_n you_o desire_v that_o i_o shall_v first_o propound_v my_o opinion_n and_o then_o argue_v it_o and_o now_o it_o be_v propound_v you_o come_v with_o another_o demand_n quite_o different_a from_o it_o which_o be_v just_o according_a to_o the_o old_a say_n plura_fw-la potest_fw-la interrogare_fw-la asinus_fw-la quà m_fw-la respondere_fw-la aristoteles_n a_o fool_n may_v ask_v more_o question_n in_o a_o hour_n than_o a_o wise_a man_n may_v answer_v in_o seven_o year_n m._n cranford_n m._n goodwin_n have_v answer_v this_o already_o that_o he_o do_v not_o intend_v it_o absolute_o but_o conditional_o m._n powell_n if_o you_o please_v to_o draw_v up_o your_o whole_a mind_n into_o one_o argument_n for_o no_o man_n be_v able_a to_o answer_v you_o in_o this_o long_a discourse_n m._n goodwin_n it_o be_v not_o propound_v for_o any_o such_o end_n that_o you_o shall_v answer_v it_o for_o i_o have_v only_o assert_v i_o have_v not_o prove_v any_o thing_n but_o i_o will_v answer_v your_o question_n whether_o god_n intend_v the_o salvation_n of_o all_o man_n absolute_o or_o conditional_o this_o than_o i_o say_v that_o in_o a_o sense_n and_o true_a state_v of_o all_o the_o decree_n and_o counsel_n of_o god_n i_o hold_v that_o they_o be_v all_o absolute_a and_o independent_a upon_o any_o thing_n in_o the_o creature_n that_o be_v that_o god_n shall_v intend_v the_o salvation_n of_o all_o man_n in_o such_o a_o sense_n as_o i_o have_v declare_v this_o purpose_n and_o intention_n of_o his_o be_v not_o occasion_v or_o bring_v into_o he_o by_o any_o interposall_n or_o consideration_n from_o the_o creature_n but_o it_o be_v mere_o draw_v out_o of_o his_o own_o will_n and_o proceed_v from_o his_o own_o grace_n and_o bless_a intent_n in_o this_o sense_n all_o the_o intention_n of_o god_n be_v absolute_a but_o now_o if_o by_o absolute_a you_o mean_v that_o god_n will_v fulfil_v and_o put_v in_o execution_n the_o thing_n intend_v without_o any_o condition_n so_o i_o say_v they_o be_v not_o absolute_a but_o conditional_a for_o god_n do_v not_o intend_v the_o salvation_n of_o any_o man_n but_o only_o by_o the_o interposall_n of_o his_o faith_n and_o believe_v now_o if_o you_o please_v to_o let_v i_o go_v on_o i_o shall_v produce_v my_o argument_n and_o if_o it_o do_v not_o reach_v home_o to_o my_o opinion_n as_o i_o have_v lay_v it_o down_o take_v notice_n of_o the_o defect_n and_o we_o will_v eke_o it_o out_o m._n powell_n i_o only_o desire_v this_o because_o it_o be_v necessary_a that_o you_o first_o lie_v down_o what_o you_o assert_v and_o go_v to_o prove_v m._n goodwin_n that_o god_n have_v intend_v the_o salvation_n of_o all_o man_n and_o we_o shall_v first_o begin_v with_o that_o know_a scripture_n joh._n 3._o 16._o for_o god_n so_o love_v the_o world_n that_o he_o give_v his_o only_a beget_v son_n that_o whosoever_o believe_v in_o he_o shall_v not_o perish_v but_o have_v everlasting_a life_n from_o hence_o i_o argue_v thus_o if_o so_o be_v that_o love_n out_o of_o which_o god_n give_v his_o son_n be_v uniform_a unto_o the_o world_n that_o be_v unto_o all_o man_n than_o god_n do_v intend_v in_o the_o death_n of_o his_o son_n the_o salvation_n of_o all_o man_n and_o we_o may_v add_v with_o uniformity_n of_o intention_n but_o i_o shall_v not_o need_v but_o there_o he_o evangelist_n express_o affirm_v that_o god_n give_v his_o son_n out_o of_o that_o love_n which_o he_o bear_v unto_o the_o world_n that_o be_v unto_o all_o man_n and_o that_o for_o this_o end_n that_o upon_o their_o believe_v they_o may_v be_v save_v therefore_o he_o do_v intend_v in_o the_o gift_n
great_a apostle_n dispute_v against_o the_o opposer_n of_o christian_a religion_n which_o he_o stand_v up_o indeed_o to_o maintain_v against_o the_o whole_a world_n if_o you_o please_v you_o may_v add_v to_o those_o instance_n another_o in_o the_o 6._o act_n 9_o where_o you_o shall_v find_v that_o certain_a of_o the_o synagogue_n call_v the_o sect_n of_o the_o libertine_n and_o cyrenian_o dispute_v against_o stephen_n so_o that_o you_o see_v there_o be_v disputation_n as_o well_o manage_v against_o the_o apostle_n as_o by_o the_o apostle_n as_o well_o against_o paul_n as_o by_o paul_n against_o those_o that_o be_v enemy_n to_o christianity_n and_o that_o in_o the_o synagogue_n of_o the_o jew_n as_o for_o that_o which_o mr._n simpson_n be_v please_v to_o intimate_v concern_v the_o state_n of_o the_o question_n now_o in_o dispute_n by_o which_o he_o do_v distinguish_v it_o from_o those_o question_n or_o doubtful_a disputation_n whereunto_o the_o weak_a christian_n be_v not_o to_o be_v admit_v i_o suppose_v there_o be_v nothing_o speak_v by_o paul_n against_o their_o admission_n thereunto_o but_o only_o this_o that_o weak_a christian_n be_v not_o to_o be_v entangle_v or_o incomber_v or_o deny_v communion_n in_o church-fellowship_n upon_o point_n or_o question_n that_o be_v doubtful_a and_o not_o clear_o but_o ambiguous_a not_o but_o that_o the_o weak_a of_o all_o be_v fit_a and_o indeed_o more_o fit_a to_o be_v admit_v to_o such_o disputation_n which_o may_v tend_v to_o the_o increase_n of_o their_o faith_n and_o knowledge_n than_o other_o man_n but_o now_o whereas_o he_o charge_v so_o much_o weight_n upon_o the_o question_n now_o to_o be_v debate_v through_o the_o assistance_n of_o god_n and_o his_o presence_n with_o we_o as_o that_o it_o be_v a_o fundamental_a point_n of_o religion_n and_o that_o which_o be_v of_o absolute_a necessity_n to_o be_v believe_v by_o every_o man_n and_o woman_n unto_o salvation_n i_o must_v confess_v though_o i_o very_o believe_v that_o i_o do_v place_n as_o much_o weight_n in_o it_o and_o be_o as_o tender_v and_o jealous_a of_o the_o honour_n and_o glory_n of_o god_n i_o may_v speak_v it_o upon_o this_o occasion_n though_o i_o be_v a_o fool_n for_o my_o labour_n as_o paul_n sometime_o say_v though_o upon_o another_o occasion_n as_o he_o can_v do_v in_o that_o point_n opposite_a to_o i_o which_o he_o stand_v up_o here_o to_o maintain_v yet_o nevertheless_o i_o do_v not_o place_v any_o such_o weight_n or_o concernment_n in_o the_o question_n but_o that_o whether_o man_n be_v of_o the_o one_o faith_n or_o of_o the_o other_o whether_o they_o be_v of_o his_o judgement_n or_o of_o i_o in_o the_o point_n they_o may_v be_v save_v through_o the_o grace_n of_o god_n which_o do_v not_o stand_v in_o this_o that_o man_n shall_v take_v part_n evermore_o with_o the_o right_a hand_n in_o matter_n of_o such_o deep_a and_o profound_a find_v consideration_n as_o this_o be_v but_o sole_o and_o entire_o in_o this_o that_o they_o do_v true_o and_o sincere_o believe_v in_o jesus_n christ_n for_o salvation_n now_o whether_o it_o be_v suppose_v or_o hold_v that_o christ_n die_v for_o all_o man_n or_o only_o for_o a_o certain_a number_n of_o man_n such_o and_o such_o and_o no_o other_o this_o i_o conceive_v have_v no_o influence_n at_o all_o but_o be_v altogether_o irrelative_a to_o the_o faith_n of_o christian_n and_o that_o man_n may_v believe_v in_o christ_n unto_o salvation_n whether_o they_o believe_v the_o one_o or_o the_o other_o i_o desire_v only_o to_o add_v this_o one_o thing_n further_o to_o the_o congregation_n here_o present_a i_o hope_v they_o be_v here_o meet_v together_o without_o prejudice_n in_o their_o judgement_n or_o at_o least_o with_o their_o conscience_n unbiased_a in_o a_o point_n i_o confess_v of_o very_o great_a concernment_n though_o not_o so_o great_a as_o have_v be_v present_v to_o they_o and_o therefore_o i_o desire_v to_o speak_v these_o two_o thing_n very_o brief_o to_o they_o first_o of_o all_o that_o for_o myself_o as_o paul_n say_v in_o another_o case_n he_o be_v a_o long_a time_n a_o pharifee_n in_o the_o way_n of_o a_o pharisee_fw-mi and_o very_o strict_a he_o be_v and_o do_v profit_n therein_o above_o many_o his_o equal_n but_o afterward_o when_o christ_n be_v reveal_v to_o he_o those_o thing_n which_o before_o be_v a_o treasure_n to_o he_o which_o he_o high_o esteem_v and_o think_v himself_o in_o a_o happy_a condition_n because_o of_o they_o afterward_o he_o count_v they_o but_o as_o dross_n and_o dung_n in_o comparison_n of_o the_o excellent_a knowledge_n of_o jesus_n christ_n his_o lord_n so_o must_v i_o profess_v before_o you_o all_o this_o day_n though_o in_o part_n it_o will_v redound_v it_o may_v be_v to_o some_o shame_n and_o disparagement_n to_o myself_o yet_o for_o the_o honour_n of_o he_o for_o who_o i_o be_v create_v and_o for_o who_o if_o i_o shall_v sacrifice_v all_o that_o i_o have_v or_o be_o i_o be_o full_o resolve_v herein_o that_o i_o can_v be_v better_a bestow_v or_o dispose_v of_o then_o in_o sacrifice_v upon_o the_o service_n of_o the_o lord_n jesus_n christ_n who_o have_v be_v already_o sacrifice_v upon_o the_o service_n of_o my_o soul_n as_o of_o you_o now_o this_o be_v that_o which_o i_o will_v signify_v unto_o you_o that_o for_o myself_o for_o many_o year_n together_o even_o since_o i_o be_v first_o capable_a of_o understand_v any_o thing_n in_o the_o gospel_n and_o ministry_n of_o god_n i_o be_v of_o that_o judgement_n whereof_o it_o seem_v mr._n sympson_n be_v at_o this_o day_n and_o though_o i_o will_v not_o speak_v it_o of_o myself_o yet_o i_o crave_v leave_n to_o acquaint_v you_o with_o what_o other_o have_v say_v in_o this_o behalf_n that_o i_o speak_v more_o and_o produce_v more_o argument_n and_o reason_n for_o the_o confirmation_n of_o that_o opinion_n more_o i_o say_v then_o what_o general_o other_o of_o my_o brethren_n in_o the_o ministry_n or_o other_o of_o the_o same_o judgement_n with_o i_o then_o usual_o do_v but_o since_o it_o please_v god_n to_o enlarge_v my_o understanding_n so_o far_o as_o to_o go_v round_o about_o the_o controversy_n and_o to_o see_v and_o ponder_v and_o weigh_v with_o the_o great_a impartialness_n of_o judgement_n and_o conscience_n that_o i_o with_o my_o weakness_n and_o infirmity_n common_a to_o all_o be_v capable_a of_o go_v i_o say_v round_o about_o again_o and_o again_o and_o tell_v the_o tower_n and_o view_v the_o strength_n the_o argument_n evidence_n and_o mighty_a demonstration_n of_o that_o opinion_n and_o judgement_n wherein_o i_o now_o stand_v i_o be_v not_o able_a by_o all_o the_o help_n and_o assistance_n that_o i_o have_v from_o all_o my_o former_a thought_n and_o discussion_n wherein_o i_o have_v give_v out_o myself_o to_o the_o utmost_a of_o that_o light_n and_o learning_n and_o strength_n which_o god_n have_v give_v i_o all_o these_o be_v of_o no_o value_n or_o consideration_n at_o all_o unto_o i_o to_o stand_v up_o against_o that_o 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no_o man_n who_o hold_v that_o christ_n die_v for_o some_o particular_a person_n and_o not_o for_o all_o but_o his_o faith_n in_o this_o point_n do_v stand_v mere_o and_o pure_o upon_o the_o discussion_n advice_n and_o working_n of_o the_o reason_n of_o man_n whereas_o that_o opinion_n which_o i_o maintain_v concern_v the_o universality_n of_o christ_n death_n for_o all_o this_o stand_v upon_o express_a scripture_n plain_a and_o clear_a word_n and_o term_n without_o the_o intervention_n of_o any_o man_n reason_n to_o carry_v it_o or_o to_o make_v it_o out_o and_o therefore_o in_o as_o much_o as_o there_o be_v no_o place_n in_o all_o the_o scripture_n that_o do_v affirm_v that_o either_o christ_n die_v for_o some_o particular_a person_n only_o or_o that_o deny_v that_o he_o die_v for_o all_o man_n but_o many_o
be_v damn_v before_o the_o death_n of_o christ_n thus_o it_o be_v a_o unreasonable_a thing_n for_o a_o man_n to_o intend_v the_o salvation_n of_o he_o who_o he_o know_v certain_o be_v already_o condemn_v and_o we_o can_v think_v the_o true_a god_n to_o be_v so_o irrational_a as_o to_o intend_v the_o salvation_n of_o those_o who_o he_o certain_o know_v be_v actual_o condemn_v by_o himself_o before_o mr_n goodwin_n the_o answer_n be_v very_o easy_a and_o ready_a mr_n simpson_n then_o let_v we_o have_v it_o and_o not_o a_o discourse_n of_o half_a a_o hour_n long_o mr_n goodwin_n it_o be_v every_o whit_n as_o irrational_a that_o christ_n shall_v die_v to_o save_v those_o who_o be_v already_o actual_o save_v as_o it_o be_v to_o say_v that_o he_o shall_v die_v to_o save_v those_o who_o be_v already_o actual_o damn_v but_o i_o deny_v your_o major_a proposition_n and_o say_v that_o the_o death_n of_o christ_n be_v considerable_a two_o way_n either_o first_o in_o respect_n of_o the_o efficacy_n 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have_v no_o intention_n to_o save_v they_o by_o the_o death_n of_o christ_n but_o god_n have_v no_o intention_n to_o give_v faith_n unto_o they_o therefore_o he_o have_v no_o intention_n to_o save_v they_o by_o his_o death_n m._n goodw._n i_o distinguish_v first_o that_o phrase_n of_o you_o of_o give_v faith_n unto_o they_o if_o by_o give_v faith_n you_o mean_v that_o god_n shall_v give_v it_o to_o they_o by_o a_o irresistible_a hand_n or_o upon_o any_o such_o term_n as_o that_o they_o can_v not_o but_o receive_v it_o so_o i_o deny_v your_o major_a proposition_n if_o by_o give_v faith_n you_o mean_v that_o which_o the_o scripture_n do_v in_o that_o phrase_n which_o be_v the_o give_v man_n faith_n in_o the_o mean_n of_o it_o that_o be_v such_o mean_n which_o be_v proper_a and_o sufficient_a to_o produce_v and_o work_v it_o in_o this_o sense_n i_o affirm_v that_o god_n do_v give_v faith_n unto_o these_o man_n that_o be_v he_o give_v sufficient_a mean_n to_o they_o whereby_o to_o have_v believe_v and_o so_o to_o have_v be_v save_v by_o the_o death_n of_o christ_n m._n symp._n i_o prove_v that_o god_n do_v not_o give_v they_o sufficient_a mean_n in_o this_o sense_n if_o god_n do_v not_o give_v they_o the_o knowledge_n of_o the_o gospel_n in_o any_o measure_n than_o he_o do_v not_o give_v they_o sufficient_a mean_n of_o believe_v but_o god_n do_v not_o give_v they_o the_o knowledge_n of_o the_o gospel_n in_o any_o measure_n ergo_fw-la m._n goodw._n i_o deny_v both_o proposition_n for_o though_o god_n do_v not_o give_v they_o the_o knowledge_n of_o the_o gospel_n yet_o iâ—_n have_v give_v they_o mean_n and_o opportunity_n whereby_o to_o come_v to_o the_o knowledge_n of_o the_o gospel_n than_o he_o give_v they_o sufficient_a mean_n to_o believe_v and_o then_o again_o i_o deny_v the_o minor_a for_o they_o be_v both_o tardy_a that_o god_n do_v not_o give_v they_o the_o knowledge_n of_o the_o gospel_n in_o any_o measure_n m._n symp._n if_o god_n do_v suffer_v they_o to_o 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medium_n hitherto_o m._n cranf_n sir_n if_o it_o please_v you_o to_o leave_v this_o and_o to_o urge_v another_o argument_n m._n good_n all_o this_o while_n i_o say_v i_o have_v prosecute_v the_o question_n in_o a_o very_o straight_o and_o direct_a line_n i_o prove_v that_o the_o heathen_n have_v sufficient_a mean_n of_o salvation_n because_o the_o will_n of_o god_n be_v that_o all_o man_n shall_v be_v save_v and_o come_v to_o the_o acknowledgement_n of_o the_o 〈◊〉_d and_o heathen_n be_v in_o the_o number_n of_o man_n it_o be_v the_o will_n of_o god_n that_o they_o also_o shall_v be_v save_v as_o well_o as_o other_o mr._n simp._n sir_n if_o you_o please_v to_o proceed_v to_o another_o argument_n we_o shall_v hear_v you_o bring_v your_o argument_n to_o prove_v that_o rain_n and_o fruitful_a season_n be_v sufficient_a mean_n to_o preach_v the_o gospel_n m._n good_n i_o have_v prove_v that_o the_o will_n of_o god_n be_v that_o all_o man_n shall_v be_v save_v etc._n etc._n the_o motive_n 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unto_o salvation_n and_o you_o run_v upon_o another_o question_n whether_o or_o no_o jesus_n christ_n die_v for_o all_o m._n good_n sir_n i_o bring_v this_o for_o the_o proof_n of_o it_o and_o will_v you_o deny_v i_o my_o medium_n and_o appoint_v i_o by_o what_o argument_n i_o shall_v proceed_v m._n simp._n you_o have_v not_o make_v good_a your_o promise_n to_o the_o corgregarion_n which_o be_v to_o prove_v that_o rain_n and_o fruitful_a season_n do_v preach_v jesus_n christ_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d m._n good_n that_o be_v not_o the_o business_n but_o the_o question_n be_v whether_o the_o heathen_a without_o the_o preach_n of_o the_o gospel_n by_o man_n have_v sufficient_a mean_n of_o salvation_n and_o i_o prove_v they_o have_v because_o christ_n die_v for_o they_o m._n simp._n our_o question_n be_v about_o a_o external_a mean_n for_o you_o say_v that_o the_o work_n of_o creation_n be_v a_o sufficient_a mean_n as_o of_o the_o death_n of_o christ_n but_o about_o the_o external_a which_o god_n have_v give_v to_o discover_v christ_n m._n cranf_n that_o be_v mr._n goodwin_n argument_n because_o they_o have_v the_o meritorious_a cause_n of_o salvation_n therefore_o they_o have_v the_o external_a cause_n and_o mean_n of_o salvation_n also_o m._n simp._n i_o deny_v the_o minor_a proposition_n m._n good_n i_o prove_v it_o thus_o either_o christ_n give_v himself_o for_o the_o heathen_a who_o want_v the_o ministry_n of_o the_o gospel_n as_o well_o as_o for_o other_o or_o else_o he_o put_v a_o difference_n between_o these_o heathen_a and_o other_o in_o lay_v down_o the_o ransom_n of_o himself_o but_o he_o do_v not_o put_v a_o difference_n between_o heathen_a and_o heathen_a or_o man_n and_o man_n in_o lay_v down_o his_o life_n and_o give_v himself_o a_o ransom_n therefore_o he_o give_v himself_o a_o ransom_n as_o well_o for_o the_o one_o as_o for_o the_o other_o m._n simp._n i_o deny_v this_o proposition_n and_o say_v that_o jesus_n christ_n do_v not_o die_v for_o those_o heathen_n who_o never_o enjoy_v the_o ministry_n of_o the_o gospel_n m._n good_n if_o so_o be_v christ_n make_v no_o difference_n between_o man_n and_o man_n they_o that_o have_v the_o ministry_n of_o the_o gospel_n and_o they_o that_o have_v it_o not_o in_o lay_v down_o his_o life_n than_o he_o do_v as_o well_o give_v himself_o a_o ransom_n for_o those_o that_o have_v not_o the_o gospel_n as_o for_o those_o that_o have_v but_o christ_n make_v no_o difference_n between_o man_n and_o man_n in_o lay_v down_o his_o life_n therefore_o he_o do_v as_o well_o lay_v it_o down_o for_o those_o that_o have_v not_o the_o ministry_n of_o the_o gospel_n as_o for_o those_o that_o have_v it_o m._n simp._n the_o minor_a proposition_n be_v deny_v m._n good_n then_o i_o will_v prove_v it_o m._n cranf_n if_o it_o please_v you_o though_o i_o desire_v not_o to_o interpose_v any_o thing_n nor_o to_o do_v any_o thing_n contrary_a to_o that_o office_n and_o trust_n which_o be_v repose_v in_o i_o as_o moderator_n yet_o i_o beseech_v you_o sir_n a_o little_a to_o consider_v the_o expectation_n of_o the_o people_n and_o the_o end_n for_o which_o they_o be_v come_v together_o which_o be_v not_o in_o general_a to_o have_v it_o wrangle_v out_o whether_o the_o heathen_a have_v mean_n of_o salvation_n or_o no_o but_o what_o that_o mean_n of_o slavation_n be_v which_o the_o heathen_a enjoy_v without_o the_o preach_n of_o the_o gospel_n mr._n good_n now_o you_o start_v a_o new_a question_n which_o differ_v as_o much_o from_o we_o as_o the_o east_n be_v from_o the_o west_n our_o question_n as_o it_o be_v agree_v upon_o on_o both_o side_n be_v whether_o the_o heathen_a without_o the_o ministry_n of_o the_o gospel_n have_v sufficient_a mean_n to_o believe_v unto_o salvation_n m._n simp._n you_o come_v not_o to_o the_o thing_n you_o promise_v the_o last_o meeting_n which_o be_v to_o prove_v that_o rain_n and_o fruitful_a season_n do_v preach_v the_o gospel_n mr._n good_n be_v there_o not_o a_o 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which_o the_o heathen_a may_v enjoy_v and_o second_o by_o sufficient_a mean_n to_o believe_v to_o salvation_n you_o state_v sufficiency_n proximè_fw-la &_o remotè_fw-la near_o and_o remote_a mediate_a and_o immediate_a and_o you_o assert_v that_o the_o heathen_a have_v such_o mean_n which_o though_o they_o be_v not_o proximè_fw-la yet_o remotè_fw-la that_o be_v by_o do_v some_o act_n or_o thing_n which_o they_o have_v a_o power_n to_o do_v those_o mean_n may_v be_v make_v effectual_a for_o their_o salvation_n now_o i_o conceive_v you_o have_v vary_v the_o state_n of_o the_o question_n for_o you_o now_o go_v upon_o the_o meritorious_a cause_n of_o salvation_n that_o jesus_n christ_n die_v for_o the_o heathen_a promiscuous_o mr._n good_n i_o do_v not_o make_v the_o least_o digression_n or_o variation_n from_o the_o question_n in_o that_o sense_n wherein_o i_o hold_v and_o state_n it_o my_o sense_n be_v that_o the_o heathen_n have_v sufficient_a mean_n for_o salvation_n i_o do_v not_o determine_v or_o prescribe_v neither_o be_v there_o any_o thing_n in_o the_o word_n of_o the_o question_n to_o bear_v it_o how_o or_o what_o kind_n of_o mean_n they_o have_v for_o it_o may_v be_v very_o hard_a to_o determine_v and_o prescribe_v that_o but_o this_o be_v that_o which_o i_o undertake_v to_o prove_v that_o a_o sufficiency_n of_o mean_n they_o have_v vouchsafe_v unto_o they_o by_o god_n for_o that_o end_n mr._n simp._n sir_n if_o you_o will_v prove_v that_o rain_n and_o fruitful_a season_n be_v sufficient_a to_o preach_v the_o gospel_n do_v for_o till_o this_o be_v do_v you_o frustrate_v the_o expectation_n of_o the_o congregation_n mr._n cranf_n i_o desire_v that_o the_o disputation_n may_v proceed_v you_o only_o maintain_v then_o in_o the_o general_a that_o the_o heathen_a have_v sufficient_a mean_n to_o believe_v
himself_o as_o jeremy_n before_o he_o have_v a_o be_v he_o be_v the_o object_n of_o god_n decree_n but_o not_o god_n mr._n goodw._n this_o be_v the_o thing_n which_o i_o grant_v there_o be_v a_o difference_n some_o kind_n of_o difference_n indeed_o between_o god_n and_o the_o decree_n of_o god_n yet_o real_o and_o substantial_o they_o be_v but_o one_o and_o the_o same_o and_o though_o there_o be_v a_o difference_n herein_o yet_o notwithstanding_o it_o be_v not_o such_o as_o that_o the_o object_n of_o these_o decree_n as_o they_o be_v in_o god_n shall_v be_v capable_a of_o election_n or_o reprobation_n mr_n cranf_n you_o be_v fall_v upon_o a_o question_n which_o i_o confess_v if_o it_o be_v in_o the_o school_n only_o among_o scholar_n it_o may_v perhaps_o deserve_v some_o ventillation_n about_o the_o pre-existency_a of_o thing_n in_o the_o knowledge_n of_o god_n you_o know_v the_o large_a treatise_n write_v upon_o this_o subject_a by_o schoolman_n but_o i_o very_o believe_v that_o if_o you_o argue_v upon_o this_o subject_a till_o to_o morrow_n morning_n the_o people_n will_v not_o be_v able_a to_o understand_v you_o whilst_o you_o dispute_v upon_o these_o metaphysical_a notion_n mr_n goodw._n the_o argument_n which_o i_o have_v urge_v against_o reprobation_n from_o eternity_n i_o conceive_v it_o be_v so_o clear_a and_o obvious_a and_o lie_v so_o near_o the_o understanding_n and_o capacity_n of_o the_o weak_a who_o be_v present_a that_o there_o be_v none_o of_o they_o all_o but_o may_v full_o and_o clear_o apprehend_v it_o namely_o this_o that_o it_o be_v impossible_a there_o shall_v be_v any_o thing_n reprobate_v from_o eternity_n that_o be_v not_o and_o again_o that_o there_o be_v nothing_o from_o eternity_n but_o god_n himself_o mr_n symps_n i_o conceive_v there_o be_v none_o here_o so_o irrational_a but_o can_v easy_o distinguish_v between_o the_o decree_n of_o god_n and_o the_o object_n of_o that_o decree_n you_o be_v to_o prove_v that_o the_o object_n of_o god_n 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many_o way_n in_o the_o thing_n and_o shall_v now_o refer_v both_o my_o cause_n and_o you_o to_o the_o righteous_a judgement_n of_o god_n who_o we_o be_v sure_o can_v be_v deceive_v mr._n cranf_n sir_n you_o be_v please_v to_o signify_v unto_o the_o people_n that_o your_o argument_n lie_v so_o near_o to_o their_o understanding_n that_o there_o be_v none_o here_o present_a but_o be_v capable_a of_o it_o and_o can_v carry_v it_o away_o namely_o that_o there_o can_v be_v no_o decree_n of_o reprobation_n from_o eternity_n because_o there_o be_v no_o object_n of_o reprobation_n only_a god_n himself_o which_o be_v as_o much_o as_o to_o say_v i_o can_v determine_v what_o i_o will_v do_v with_o any_o work_n which_o i_o purpose_v to_o make_v hereafter_o because_o that_o work_n be_v not_o yet_o in_o be_v take_v election_n and_o reprobation_n for_o the_o decree_n of_o god_n how_o he_o will_v dispose_v of_o such_o creature_n when_o they_o shall_v have_v a_o be_v this_o may_v be_v from_o eternity_n though_o the_o creature_n themselves_o have_v not_o then_o a_o actual_a be_v but_o if_o you_o take_v election_n and_o reprobation_n as_o you_o seem_v to_o hint_n for_o the_o execution_n of_o this_o decree_n in_o time_n none_o oppose_v for_o know_v unto_o god_n of_o old_a be_v all_o his_o work_n and_o therefore_o if_o the_o people_n understand_v the_o argument_n they_o understand_v no_o more_o but_o this_o that_o god_n can_v not_o execute_v his_o decree_n but_o in_o time_n m._n goodw._n i_o full_o accord_n and_o close_o with_o you_o in_o this_o and_o desire_v the_o people_n to_o take_v knowledge_n of_o it_o that_o there_o be_v no_o election_n or_o reprobation_n from_o eternity_n but_o decree_n of_o election_n and_o reprobation_n only_o which_o i_o full_o and_o free_o assent_v unto_o and_o be_o of_o the_o same_o judgement_n with_o you_o herein_o i_o say_v there_o be_v no_o reprobation_n of_o person_n from_o eternity_n because_o it_o be_v impossible_a there_o shall_v be_v any_o person_n from_o eternity_n but_o the_o decree_n of_o god_n be_v nothing_o else_o but_o god_n himself_o therefore_o to_o deny_v such_o decree_n from_o eternity_n be_v to_o deny_v god_n himself_o but_o this_o be_v that_o which_o i_o deny_v that_o these_o decree_n respect_v person_n personal_o consider_v but_o they_o only_o respect_v species_n of_o man_n as_o for_o example_n the_o decree_n of_o election_n from_o eternity_n be_v that_o whosoever_o believe_v shall_v be_v save_v and_o on_o the_o contrary_a that_o who_o ever_o live_v and_o die_v in_o unbelief_n shall_v be_v condemn_v this_o be_v the_o decree_n of_o reprobation_n and_o this_o be_v that_o which_o i_o say_v that_o there_o be_v no_o other_o decree_n of_o election_n and_o reprobation_n from_o eternity_n but_o only_o this_o and_o so_o i_o have_v do_v mr._n symp._n there_o be_v a_o proposition_n which_o lie_v upon_o you_o to_o prove_v namely_o that_o the_o object_n of_o god_n decree_n and_o his_o decree_n itself_o be_v the_o same_o if_o you_o have_v any_o ability_n therefore_o in_o you_o either_o prove_v it_o because_o you_o make_v it_o such_o a_o invinciable_a argument_n or_o else_o go_v off_o as_o you_o do_v the_o last_o time_n not_o able_a to_o make_v good_a what_o you_o say_v for_o you_o have_v not_o answer_v your_o promise_n which_o be_v to_o prove_v that_o the_o work_n of_o creation_n be_v a_o sufficient_a mean_n to_o hold_v forth_o the_o gospel_n i_o as_o respondent_fw-la shall_v look_v to_o my_o duty_n and_o if_o you_o will_v hear_v i_o i_o shall_v be_v willing_a to_o do_v it_o m._n goodw._n to_o prove_v any_o thing_n to_o they_o that_o be_v incapable_a of_o proof_n i_o be_o not_o able_a to_o do_v it_o i_o be_o i_o confess_v more_o conquer_v with_o your_o weakness_n then_o with_o your_o strength_n m._n powel_n i_o desire_v leave_n to_o speak_v a_o few_o word_n and_o so_o we_o shall_v conclude_v the_o ground_n and_o occasion_n of_o the_o first_o dispute_n with_o master_n goodwin_n it_o be_v some_o difference_n between_o master_n goodwin_n people_n and_o other_o and_o the_o end_n of_o it_o be_v for_o reconciliation_n not_o for_o contention_n when_o we_o come_v together_o the_o first_o question_n be_v concern_v universal_a redemption_n where_o m._n goodwin_n do_v assert_v this_o position_n that_o christ_n do_v die_v intentional_o on_o his_o father_n part_n and_o on_o his_o own_o to_o save_v all_o the_o posterity_n of_o adam_n mr._n goodwin_n be_v oponent_a and_o he_o urge_v this_o argument_n that_o if_o god_n do_v love_v all_o than_o he_o do_v intend_v the_o salvation_n of_o all_o by_o the_o death_n of_o jesus_n christ_n there_o be_v a_o answer_n then_o give_v unto_o that_o scripture_n which_o he_o then_o urge_v 3_o john_n but_o i_o pass_v from_o thence_o and_o come_v to_o the_o second_o disputation_n which_o lie_v upon_o mr._n sympson_n to_o prove_v the_o contrary_a that_o christ_n do_v not_o die_v on_o his_o father_n part_n nor_o on_o his_o own_o part_n for_o the_o salvation_n of_o all_o man_n intentional_o m._n sympson_n urge_v several_a argument_n against_o that_o position_n and_o this_o for_o one_o that_o if_o god_n do_v intend_v the_o salvation_n of_o all_o man_n by_o the_o death_n of_o christ_n than_o he_o do_v intend_v to_o give_v sufficient_a mean_n unto_o all_o man_n for_o their_o salvation_n now_o the_o result_n of_o that_o dispute_n be_v this_o that_o when_o mr._n sympson_n come_v to_o urge_v a_o scripture_n in_o act_n 14._o that_o the_o heathen_a be_v leave_v without_o the_o gospel_n and_o that_o they_o have_v but_o shower_n and_o fruitful_a season_n to_o discover_v a_o god_n unto_o they_o mr._n goodwin_n be_v please_v to_o say_v thus_o that_o he_o will_v undertake_v to_o prove_v that_o such_o shower_n and_o fruitful_a season_n do_v discover_v a_o mediator_n which_o he_o