The Predestinated Thief A DIALOGVE BETWIXT A Rigid Calvinian Preacher AND A Condemned Malefactor In which is not onely represented how the Calvinistical Opinion occasions the perpetration of Wickedness and Impieties but moreover how it doth impede and hinder nay almost impossibilitate the reducing of a Sinner to Emendation and Repentance What doth Christ his Spirit or the Word preached profit us if the contrary be Predestinated by God If Christ would profit us by his Spirit and reform us by his Word of necessity God hath not decreed any thing to the contrary LONDON Printed by R. Trott for Daniel Jones and are to be sold at the three Hearts in S. Paul's Church-yard 1658. TO The Christian Reader WE question not but this Discourse or DIALOGUE may stick on the stomachs of some and seem strange and insolent to others who are not at all or else but very little acquainted with Discourses or Opinions of this nature Nevertheless those things which we hear by the Thief both defended maintained are not so to be judged of as if every word of it were immediately deduced from Scripture Yet whatsoever is alledged is consonant nay the very express words of those Doctors which are accounted the most Eminent and Orthodox among the Calvinists which opinion we assert to be most abominable maintaining such things as utterly overthrow Evangelical Piety and opening a wide gap to all manner of sin and iniquity Men of less piercing Intellects do not perceive how pernicious and absurd this opinion of precise and rigid Predestination is which was the very reason this Dialogue came to light that hence it might appear as evidently as the Sun at Noon-day that such Doctors and their Doctrines are to be aavoided as much as Hell Though the Inscription may seem strange or hard to thee gentle Reader let not that offend thee for 't is certain that many being carried away with a fancy to these Opinions have given themselves over to Rapines Robberies Murthers and to other more detestable wickednesses so that if we might have our wish we could wish that the sad Experience the more is the pity of many Examples did not prove it too true which considered it does evidently appear that the Title does aptly agree with the matter of this following Discourse Farewell The Names of those Doctors whose Opinions of Precise Predestination are most esteemed and quoted in this Treatise A B RUardus Acronius late Preacher at Schiedam Theodore Beza Doctor of Geneva George Buchanan of Bern Professâ—r at Lausan Martin Bucer Professor at Cambridge John Bogard late Preacher at Harlem John Becius Preacher at Dort Bern. Buschop Preacher at Utrecht C John Calvin Doctor of Geneva These six that follow were the Collocutors against the Remonstrants Peter Plantius Preacher at Amsterdam John Bogard Preacher at Harlem Libertus Fraxinus Preacher at the Brill Rvardus Acronius Preacher at Schiedam Festus Homnius Preacher at Leyden John Becius Preacher at Dort D Dunganus Preacher at Arnehem Reyneirus Donteclock late Preacher at Delph and the Brill Synod of Dort Darnman Preacher at Zutphan F H Libertus Fraxinus late Preacher at the Brill Festus Homnius Preacher at the Brill G Cornelius Geselius late Preacher at Edam D. Fran. Gomarus Professor at Groning M Marloratus Preacher at Roan Musculus P. Martyr Professor of Oxford and Tigurin N Nicasius de Schure Preacher at Gaunt Pet. Neinwenrode Preacher at Roterdam P G. Perkins an English Doctor Amandus Polanus Professor at Basil Pareus Professor at Heidelberg John Piscator Professor of Nassan in the County of Herbon R Renucherus Professor of the Hebrew Tongue at Leyden a Preacher Hen. Sturmius a Professor of Leyden Adrian Smactius heretofore Preacher at the Rhyne Rippertus Sextus Preacher at Hornan T Jab Triglandius Preacher at Amsterdam Anthon. Thisius Professor at Harderwick Dan. Tossanus Professor and Preacher at Heidelberg U John Urbanus Preacher at Hattem Z Zuinglius Tiguri Professor and Preacher at Helvetia H. Zanchius Professor at the new City of Spire A DIALOGVE Had betwixt A Calvinist Preacher AND A Condemned Malefactor Preacher A Good evening to you Sir How have you led your life all along Thief Even as the Omnipotent God who works all things according to the counsel of his own will pleased to decree from all Eternity and effect in time concerning me Pr. You say well but I do not like this but I like you worse in that you are thus fettered nor can expect nothing but a certain sudden and detestable death Th. 'T is true but I don't know whether it becomes you or me thus to grieve when neither you nor I are certain whether God from Eternity by some immutable Decree have predestinated me either to life or death eternal Pr. We will speak of that by and by and in the mean while because ye are condemned to die to morrow I am appointed here to be ready with you and am come to know whether thou desirest to be translated with the Thief into Paradise Tell me what sins you have committed that I may the better order my Instructions and Exhortations to you and teach you better for your Souls health Th. I shall willingly if you will but be pleased to hear My Parents had a care that I should be bred up in learning from a childe At last intending to send me to the Unisersity thought what they should do Leyden was full of Heresies Franeker of Deboistness and Duellings Nevertheless the Parson of our Parish would have me go to Franeker forasmuch as it is better to be Bacchus or Mars his Scholar than an Heretick because the first destroy but the Body the last murther the Soul After this away went I for Franeker where the Ale was so good the Wine so cheap the Company so ingenious that I spent all my money in jolletting As soon as my friends heard of this that I was more in the Alehouse than my Study and drunk more than I read they call'd me home and sent me into France where they live sparingly and count Drunkenness both a shame and a sin But I went to Paris where is a general concourse of all Travellers There the best Wine is worth little or nothing and I believed drinking strifly would do my business for me I spent my whole time in drinking and wenching Living so egregiously and openly wicked my friends had notice of it who as soon as they heard it sent Letters to some in Geneva and to me that I should presently go live there if I expected their blessing For our Parson had possest my friends that it was a most sanctified City in which they would neither suffer Rioting or Drunkenness Levity or Wantonness or any other unlawful or sinful action Hence the credulity of my Parents presently perswaded them that I should live there no otherwise than another Samuel with a good old Eli in the Temple of God Well there is no avoiding of it I must for Geneva or else they will neither own
and power which is to the elect irresistible for Renovation is a second Creation which does not depend upon the will of man but sole power of God i Donteclock in respons ad ignoti scriptum litera L. 4. M. 1. k Martyr L.C. de lib. arbit p. 978. For as those which are dead cannot raise themselves againe so I can by no means raise my self from the death of sin how much soever the word of God sound against threatning to reward this Spirituall death with an eternall unless God himself be pleased to give a new Spirit unto me wherefore I did wisely even to tarry l Bucer in Rom. 9. till God should come in upon me and by his word and instructions turn my heart for when I should be compeld I could not chuse but follow On the other side I concluded with my self thus If I am reprobated all that lies in me either to do or suffer will be vaine my doings can do me no good may be they may do me harm m Donteclock against Castel p. 171. nay though I should perform all the good deeds n Marl. on Ioh. 15. v. 2. that all the Saints ever did or shall do I could not be saved the decree of God stands so firme and sure Pr. You should have observed the outward and inward call of God both by his word and spirit Th. Could I have behaved my self any otherwise then I have done o Gesel in probat fol. 38. for who are not outwardly by the Gospel and inwardly by the Spirit called according to the good purpose of God cannot obey this call neither can they believe or p Id. 38. convert themselves and God q Smout in pref Concopd fol. 9. draws those that believe so that they will not cannot neither can will to resist his will Whom God enlightens and whose hearts he moves are compelled and cannot but follow when 't is God that calls To illustrate this by an example r Anthon. Thys in doct ord reform Eccles s Contra-Remonst in Colloq Hag. as none can hinder his own production or resurrection so none can hinder the Free-grace of God working in Jesus Christ for our regeneration and resurrection to a spirituall life from these you abundantly see if I had bin thus handled and called of God I could have done no other then followed and obeyed his will Pr. Did you then never heare God thus calling nor find your self ever moved Th. Yes I have often heard yet you very well know that as God has an internall and externall will so there is an internall and externall call t Pareus in Rom. 9. but if this externall call shall be joyned with the internall 't is to be an effect and an ineffable figne of his predestination and this is what the Synod of Dort have not of late so clearly demonstrated u Synod of Dort cap. 1. Art 6. Some have faith bestowed on them by God and others have not proceeds from the eternall decree of God according to which decree he softens the hard hearts and bends their wils to believe but the non-elect the elect by his just judgement he leaves to the hardness and malice of their own hearts Therefore Sir you seeme to be easilier bafled then one of your Coat should be bawling at me so often that I did not hearken to the call and invitation of God and fishing out of me whether I had not heard this call or no and was moved at it x Synod of Dort cap. 3 4. Art 10. For that some are called and converted by the Ministry of the Gospell is not to be ascribed to man as if by his own free will from others instructions he could discern and follow sufficient grace and works for his conversion which that proud Heresie of Pelagius affirms but to God who as he hath from all eternity chosen his in Christ so in time he doth effectually call them bestows on them Faith and Repentance and translates them out of darkness into the Kingdom of his dear Son nay y Ibid. Art 12. God creates this new creation in us without us by such a virtue which is not inferior to that of the great Creation or Resurrection So that all those in whose hearts God has thus strangely and wonderfully wrought are infallibly regenerated and do actually believe Why do you accuse me that I am not converted when to speak the truth I do not see how 't is possible that one who is alwayes tottering and doubting whether he be elected or not can conform himself to the eternal Call this lett being left too over and above that this internal Call doth not concur Pr. Have you then all this while judged your self to be a reprobate O sad to relate Th. That I have and that not without a cause too because God of his own good pleasure has reprobated the greatest part z Smout Concord fol. 109. of Mankinde and reprobates a Trigl Def. fol. 83. are not damn'd for their sins neither are fore-seen sins the cause why any should be reprobated so that 't is necessary we confess b Gesel probat f. 216 217. evil works and incredulity not to be the cause of reprobation So that God out of his will and counsel hath ordained That some should be born as infallibly heirs of Hell as of their Parents that by their destruction his Name might be glorified Pondering these things in my minde I have oftentimes silently thought O good God! hast thou also reprobated me with the greatest part of Mankinde I did easily believe it because thou hast so ordered our reprobation that though it be our misery it turns to thy glory Pr. This is very true that God c Anthon. Thys ad Summam Baron p. 20. from eternity without any respect to sin by his pure absolute Decree which no man can understand has rejected the greatest part of Mankinde and created them to destruction or bequeathed them to destruction in Adams fall from an immutable and inevitable Decree which he decreed with and in himself nay if any one d Id. pag. shall dare to say God hath not decreed to hate man as man his creature but as a sinner he contradicts the Apostle and so consequently won't take the Authority of God himself yet for all this you are not by and by without any more ado to conclude your self a Reprobate Th. You say well but how is it possible that a man whose faith is oppugned with so many various and strong temptations who is given to so many lusts should easily perswade himself not to be reprobated as for example if a man knowes and weighs with himself that not onely aged people but also Infants are of this number e Perk. Cat. pag. 393. so that among Infants that die f Thys in expl doct de Praedest p. 245. some are saved some damned and that before they have done
power of obeying in this faln corrupted condition God requires faith of all to whom the Word is preached but will not give faith to all to whom it is revealed Pr. You seem to me to have been alwayes of this opinion Th. I was not so wedded to this opinion till such thoughts as these ran alwayes in my minde that I was really of the number of the Elect. Pr. Do not presume rashly you too confidently pronounce your self Elect when from your Childhood you have been such a rakehell and have not to this day mended your course these are but small fruits or signs of your Election Th. O good Sir you must know that all z Calv. in Instit lib. 3. c. 24. dist 10. the Elect are not called so soon as born nor all at one and the same time nay before they are congregated to the Supreme Pastor they wander in the common desert of this world in sin and are neither known to others or themselves to be elected to life till the peculiar mercy of God keep and guide them a Musc loc com de Fide c. 7. Neither is God bound to any time when or persons which to call so that 't is for no one to doubt when he shall be call'd for no sin is so great as to â—inder when heaven calls Whence it appears clear as Noon-day I am not presently to despair if I have not lived so unblameably as you would have me Pr. Yet it was your duty as the Apostle sayes by good works to make your salvation sure Th. How came you to speak so unadvisedly Sir does our Election depend on good works I 'll prove it does not and further I am perswaded that the Elect may fall b Zanch. in Mâ—scel p. 329. into great and hainous sins as Adultery Murther nay sometimes into such errours by which sometimes partly sometimes wholly the very foundation of Salvation is turned topfie-turvy or otherwise against their Conscience to sin foully and grievously c Ruard Acron Explic. Catech. qu. 53. fol. 137. against any of the Commandments of God but all these things hinder little or nothing For d Wilhel Teeling in dial de statu hom Christi pag. 44. God will not damn any of the elect though they sin because the foundation of their safety lies in his eternal act of their election neither can a thousand nay the sins of the whole world nor all the Devils in Hell destroy one of the Elect Our sins may harden our hearts weaken our faith but cannot quite destroy it nor extinguish the Spirit of God utterly So that God damns none for their sins whom he has adopted in Christ Pr. What then you did not fear to be damned Th. No not I a jot for who are e Toss de Praedest cap. 3. Zanch. de nat Dei l. 7. q. 1. predestinated cannot be cast off for ever because once elected by the immutable Decree of God and again because whom Christ loves he loves unto the end Pr. But you ought to have turn'd and conform'd your self according to the will of God that you might have obtained the remission of your sins Th. For any thing I understand you have even the same conception of f Smout in Script consent fol. 12. the New Covenant as of the Old which was placed in the condition of Works as if we would constantly believe and do this and thus God would again do for us so and so c. which rule is diametrically opposite to the New Covenant conditions g Id. fol. 31. God makes a New Covenant with us and promises us not onely when we are without any but have strayed a long way from the condition whilst we wallow in the midst of sin h Id. fol. 46. Behold God forgiveth sin before he renews the heart and does both these before we have done any good nay whilst we are in our sins and do profane his Name Hence 't is abundantly evident i Gesel probat fol. 33. that God does prosecute all his Elect with a singular eternal gracious and saving love before they believe or repent For truly as the Synod of Dort k Acta Synodi cap. 1. Art 9. sayes Election is made not from any foreseen faith obedience fanctity or any other good quality or disposition as a pre-requisite cause or condition in us that we should be thus elected but are chosen to faith and obedience so that Election is the cause from whence all good works flow and from hence faith holiness all spiritual gifts flow and at last life it self as the fruit and effect meerly of it Pr. Whither do you intend to protract this Dispute hold your tongue and leave this disputing think with your self how far the night is spent and how nigh your life is to its period and be more sollicitous how you may be saved when you shall depart this life Consider those words of St. Paul 1 Cor. 6.10 Nor thieves nor drunkards shall inherit the Kingdom of God yet you must possess it if you be saved Th. Do you think you can shew your self a Physician to my sinful sick Soul Pr. Believe in Jesus Christ mourn for your sins beg a blessed change from God an happy hour wherein he may give you the remission of your sins and life everlasting Th. What must I believe that I may believe in Christ aright Pr. You must believe that Jesus Christ by his Death and Passion merited the remission of sins and life eternal and that for you particularly This is commanded you in the Gospel Th. Whatsoever the Gospel says is it true or false Pr. 'T is truth it self Th. Has Christ by his Death and Passion purchased these things for all Pr. l Pisc con Schafm disp de Praedest pag. 12. Although humane Reason and in good men has thence taken scandal and some of the Evangelical Doctors much rage rail when they hear any teach that God would not have all men to be saved but onely such and such and Christ is not dead for all but we firmly believe on either side and that from Scripture it self so that I may assert in plain words m Perk. de Spir. desert p. 3. God has constituted no Mediator for the reprobated for Christ is the Redeemer of the Elect onely and not of others Th. Is not Christ then dead and made n Polan Explic. quar in Relig. diff p. 154. q. 4. an offering for Reprobates Pr. I pray Sir if you be one of Christs elect Sheep why do you thus patronize the Reprobate and Damned Reade the judgement of the Synod of o Synod of Dort c. 2. art 8. Dort that will teach you that this was the free counsel gracious intention of God the Father of the precious death of his onely Son to effect grace and Salvation in all the Elect giving them alone justifying faith and by it infallibly bringing them to heaven that is God
would that Christ by the blood of his Cross by which he ratified the new Covenant should effectually redeem out of every Tribe People Language and Nation those and those onely which were elected to Salvation from eternity and were given to him of his Father giving them likewise faith and spiritual gifts which he acquired by his sufferings Th. Are all men elected Pr. No p Pisc contra Schafm Thes 115. p. 119. Buc. L. C. de Praedest q. 46. for God meerly out of his own will without any respect to future impieties ordained the greatest part of mankinde to utter destruction Th. Now at length tell me seriously from your heart what you think of me am I of the Elect or no Why do not you answer Speak out and speak plain hide not truth under the ambiguity of words neither let your tongue dissent from your heart for they ought not to be divorced but speak candidly for 't is necessary that I know this If I am a Reprobate I should believe a lie for Christ has purchased nothing for Reprobates if I am Elect I follow the truth and not a lie Now to follow the truth is a work of the Gospel therefore before I do any thing else I will know whether I am elected or not Pr. q Perk. de Praedest p. 89. Gomar de Praedest Thes 4. Dungan Pacif. p. 68. Whosoever is within the pale of the Church is bound to believe that he is redeemed by Christ the Reprobate as well as the Elect yet each after a peculiar manner the Elect is bound that believing he may possess the benefit of his Election the Reprobate is bound to believe from the intention of God he may have the less to plead for himself and therefore r Gomar de Predest Thes 21. Christ is offered to Reprobates not that they should be saved but that being convicted from the incredulity and refractoriness of their hearts they may want all manner of excuse Th. Will you say God would have Reprobates to believe that which is a lie and damn them eternally too if they will not believe it and what hinders but it is so for s Nic. de Schure in Instit after he has once resolved to damn them he may do it which way he pleases Pr. Pray Sir leave off these niceties we have more need to pray to God that he would save your Soul Th. If you will be praying pray for your self for my part I will not spend time and labour so idlely If I am reprobated 't is impossible to acquire Salvation though I should spend a thousand years in praying for the Decree stands so sure t Polan in Doct. de Praedest pag. 139. that as the Elect cannot be reprobated so the Reprobated cannot become Elect for Reprobation is as immutable in respect of God reprobating as man reprobated What good can prayers do then On the contrary if I am elect God has destinated me to salvation from Eternity u Donteclock Instruct de Predest p. 93. and all whom God has ordained to salvation from the foundation of the world are brought to it by the Almighty Power of God that the purpose of Election might stand sure that it is impossible for them any way to perish This has been alwayes my belief according to which I have lived and the Synod of Dort have so confirmed me in it that I would sooner be burnt than depart an hair from it And as God x Cap. 1. Art 11. himself is most wise immutable omniscient omnipotent so that Election by him made can neither be changed revoked or broken nor the Elect perish or their number admit of addition or subtraction 'T is granted y It. cap. 5. Art 4. moreover that the Elect sometimes by the permission of God fall into grievous sins as David Peter and other Saints and they do offend z Art 5. God by such sins and incur the guilt of death grieve the holy Spirit destroy the exercise of their faith wound their consciences and many times lose the sense of grace for a while God nevertheless for the immutable Decree of his Election does not in sad failings quite take his Spirit from them neither does he suffer them to fall a Art 6. so low as to fall from the state of Adoption or Justification or to sin unto death or against the holy Ghost so that he should utterly desert them and leave them to perish infallibly for ever So that they obtain not any thing by their owne worth and strength but of the meer bounty of God b Art 8. that they neither fall totally from grace nor unavoidably into Hell But what is more than all this when as both internal and eternal Reprobation is the operation of God which does not really differ from the essence of God himself why may not we discourse and descant of Election c Polan in Doct. de Predest 'T is granted on all hands that Reprobation as well as Election does not really differ from the Essence of God and therefore it is God himself who in himself is altogether immutable and far be it from me to ask how God can be mutable Pr. Good God! what a sad hearing is this Can a man proceed so far as to be burthened with sin and misery as you are and yet will not call upon his God Th. I would sooner Sir sing that excellent Hymn made by Bernard Biscop heretofore Preacher at Oyen in Gelderland now Preacher at Vtricht till my Chamber rung again Pr. If that man has made a Hymn 't is necessary it be good for he is one teaches all Orthodox Doctrine Let me hear it Th. Hearken diligently the melody of it shall answer to the 103 Psalm You shall briefly perceive in it the universal Rule of my Belief according to which I intend to live and die I. PRaised be God who before I was born nay ere the World was predestinated me to Salvation not according to the Faith or Works which I should have or do in this life but according to his own infinite mercy II. Blessed be God who by the immutable counsel of his own Will has called me inwardly by his Spirit and outwardly by his Word who has inwardly inlightned my minde and corrupt senses by his Spirit and will more and more inlighten them III. Who has freed my base erring will the servant and store-house of sin so that I desire onely to walk in the wayes of the Lord onely to be able is wanting IV. Blessed be God who by his Omnipotent Spirit and Divine Word cooperating has implanted a firm faith in my heart such a strong faith which though by crosses and whatever is worse may be bended and yield yet cannot break V. Who shall seduce the Elect of God Who shall separate me from his love in Christ Who shall pull me out of his Omnipotent Hand Neither the Devil or Death or deadly sins shall be able by all their strength to force away my Crown VI. That good God who has begun a good work in me for his mercy sake will carry it on and perfect it even unto the end even to the end of this miserable life 'T is the Lord my God who will do this that I may persevere being alwayes guarded as it were a Prince by his Spirit Jaylor Pray make an end will you I have enough of these Disputes and Rhymings Is this one of your godly Hymns This is a Song indeed befits a Rogue and deserves singing by none but a Club of Whores and Rogues met at a Bawdy-house Your faith and your manners are even much alike Th. Even jeer on good-man Rogue as much as you will yet I esteem it for an excellent Hymn and were I to die I would sing it on the top of the highest Round of the Ladder before that of Ex profundis Domine c. Out of the deep O Lord c. The Composer of it was one of the Orthodox Contra-Remonstrants Not long ago he being called out of a little Village into the City of Vtricht he there so abundantly well argued for and defended this Hymn that there it was received into the Orthodox Church as really consentaneous to Scripture Jaylor Is this that same Orthodox Doctrine about which these Provinces are so devillishly troubled and pester'd Which that it may be had in holy reverence with the Church Synods and Souldiers use all their Authorities Truly it is a very pretty thing Pr. Sirrah you ought to hold your tongue of such things concerning which you know no more than a Dog Look to it what you say and leave to calumniate the Church and her Doctrine or it shall go worse with you for ere long you shall be so far from being head Jaylor that you shall scarce be admitted to run of a Rogues errand Jaylor If these be your best Arguments Mr. Parson yours is not so certain and good a Religion as you talk for For all your hot words I 'll tell you but thus much that you may very well know that I understand you have done little or nothing for all your many words to the turning this poor Soul from sin and translating him from death to life nay which is worse he is now much more hardned than before Indeed I have heard much of your opinions before but never believed it till now where I have been an eye and ear-witness of all is come out of your mouth Is this your Reformed Religion in good sooth If you had call'd it the Deformed Religion you had hit it as that which is not able to effect any thing of it self unless to stir up security in men and give them an occasion nay spur them to go on in sin Therefore Mr. Parson because you cannot profit this sick sinful Soul any thing by your Doctrine you may walk for I 'll light my Candle and go fetch another who shall contradict your Institutions and be of another-guess Opinion who I suppose will far sooner and surer bring a man to sorrow for his sin and a better life Pr. Do what you please so that you take it for granted you shall not thus scape unpunish'd Jaylor Do what you can I esteem this mans Soul more than your favour In the mean while though you shew your envy and bitterness too much But however God give you good night FINIS