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A36727 A conference between an orthodox Christian and a Socinian in four dialogues : wherein the late distinction of a real and nominal Trinitarian is considered / by H. de Lvzancy ... De Luzancy, H. C. (Hippolyte du Chastelet), d. 1713. 1698 (1698) Wing D2417; ESTC R31382 78,348 146

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unlearned part of the World is as capable of this as the learned Nay much more For besides the plainness of the Revelation their perceptions in what they understand are more direct and not clogg'd with subtilties as ours are They have I am afraid a more sincere respect for the Divine Revelation than we Take an honest Country-Man and ask him who is he that is blessed over all for ever He will answer immediately GOD. Shew him in the Scripture that this is said of Christ He will immediately conclude that Christ is GOD. Object to him that if Christ is God and the Father God then there are two Gods He will immediately reply No They are but one For God is but ONE You may puzle him with your Ratiocinations He may be at a stand and hear you cry till you are hoarse that two cannot be one and that he does his Reason an injury He will tell you that it is so indeed when he takes an account of his sheep and horses but in what concerns his Religion his Bible in his Reason It says so and he believes it The Learned will not wrangle to the end of the World except by the Learned you mean only the Socinians I am sure and you cannot but be so too that for many Ages and now in this very Age the Learned of all Societies agree in this And though the Socinians are infinitely fond of their objections against our Mysteries yet I despair not to see them come over to the Faith They are Rational and at one time or other will be equitable Men. But now let us see the Province of Reason when it is satisfy'd that such or such a truth is reveal'd Socin I know what you are going to say and it is this That Reason having once satisfy'd it self of the certainty of the Revelation it has no more to do but its duty is to submit to what God has reveal'd Let a proposition contain never such a gross or palpable contradiction it must be swallow'd contentedly But in good truth can this be done If this is Faith and believing who can believe Orthod God can reveal neither contradiction nor error There is a great difference between understanding the truth of a proposition and the Nature of the thing propos'd God was manifest in the Flesh and the Word was made Flesh are propositions so vastly plain that no other sence can be made of them but this God has appear'd in our Nature There is no error no contradiction in this In a word we understand it But the Nature of the thing propos'd is so unknown to us and so much above us that it is rash and bold for us to inquire into it or imagine error or contradiction in it I say then that the Truth once propos'd we ought to acquiesce in it That Reason is to be silent and give no way to further inquiries Socin But can Reason be silent when you impose on me the belief of that of which I have no kind of Notion Orthod If by Notion you mean an insight into the thing Reveal'd you are unjust We have discours'd already that the Nature of Faith is to be obscure or else it is no Faith This can be no difficulty at all It is enough for us that we understand that God has propos'd such a thing though we understand not at all the thing propos'd I cannot apprehend how God assumes our Nature and is manifest in the Flesh But I apprehend that God tells it me in clear and express terms and therefore I believe and think not my poor ignorant Brain a competent Judge of God's Veracity Socin But pray hold a little Will you be satisfy'd of the deficiency of your method if I shew you that after you have attain'd the certainty of the Revelation you must believe propositions which are inconsistent with and destroy one another You believe God to be one and yet Father Son and Holy Spirit to be every one God Does not the first proposition destroy the second and the second the first How can he be one and three three and one Orthod This is still begging of the question God can propose nothing Contradictory or Inconsistent I confess I cannot understand how this is but it is reveal'd therefore certainly true and on that account I believe it Socin You believe that Christ is God and Man Infinite and Finite Immortal and Mortal The Supreme most High God and yet suffering and Dying He is God and he is sent He is God and yet prays to God He is God over all and yet subject to him who put all things under him If this is not inconsistent I do not know what inconsistency is Orthod If Plato Aristotle or any of the Sons of Men should tell me this I would speak as you do But God is true and he says all this I adore the Divine Oeconomy though I understand it not To be God and Man is no Contradiction The Scripture represents Christ as God blessed over all for ever It represents him also as a Man Nothing can be more express than the declarations of his Divinity Nothing more clear than those of his Humanity Which part of the Revelation shall Reason overthrow Convinc'd by the proofs of his Humanity you will say that he is no God Another convinc'd by the proofs of his Divinity will deny that he is a Man Thus Reason more inconsistent with it self than you fansie Revelation to be will reject every part and destroy the whole Socin No. Reason will reconcile all and by an easy explication will make him an inferior or a deputed God and also the greatest of Men. Orthod A Socinian Explication But the misery is that our Texts are not capable of any God Blessed over all for ever The word was with God The word was God and twenty more such places admit of no explication A Man of sorrows and acquainted with grief in the Form of a Servant humbling himself to the Death of the Cross becoming Sin for us and dying for Sinners contradicts all your explications Away with this obstinacy which really debases Reason Take the Revelation as a Rational Man as it lies in all its parts as it comes from God who in the fullness of time has sent his Eternal Son to assume our Nature and become a Sacrifice for us Socin But you can never perswade me that Reason has not as much right to examine the truth of the thing propos'd as the proposition it self and to reject it if it is not agreeable to its Principles Orthod But you can never prove that Reason is capable of examining that which is above Reason and such are things reveal'd Their truth indeed depend from the conformity which they have with the Supreme Reason which is God But in respect to us their Truth consists not in their agreeableness to yours or my Reason But wholly in the Authority of the Revelation They are true because they are reveal'd Socin But is not my