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A10436 A new boke of purgatory whiche is a dyaloge [and] dysputacyon betwene one Comyngo an Almayne a Christen man, [and] one Gyngemyn a turke of Machoinett law, dysputynge by naturall reason and good philosophye, whether there be a purgatorye. which boke is deuyded into thre dyalogys. The fyrst dyaloge sheweth and treateth of the merueylous exystens of god. The seconde dyaloge treateth of the immortalyte of mannys soule. The thyrde dyaloge treateth of purgatory. Rastell, John, d. 1536. 1530 (1530) STC 20719; ESTC S104474 75,346 74

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from this corruptyble body must nedys haue an infynyte beynge as thou hast proucd in thy seconde dyaloge which must be than infynyte sorowe or infynyte ioy and thā as sone as it is separate from the corruptyble body god must than of his iustyce iudge that soule other to the place where is infynyte ioy or to that place where is infinyte sorw accordynge as it hath deserued So thā yt shulde se●e in vayne to put any purgatory where the soule shulde haue any sorowe y t shuld haue an ende or to put any other place of ioye where the soule shuld haue ioy whyche ioy shulde haue an ende ¶ The solucyon as there be degrees in synne as some synne is more and some lesse so there be degrees in repentaūce as some may be more and some lesse and also degrees of pardon forgy uenes therfore mā for lak of sufficiēt repentaunce muste be purged Laput. v. Gyngemyn ¶ To satysfye thy mynde in that poynt thou must consy der that god of his goodnes hathe create the worlde and all thynge therin conteyned in a conuenyent order of degree And thus of all the kynde of thynges that euer god made some be more and some lesse some be small and some smaller As of corporall thynges some be harde some more harde and some be softe and some be more softe some be hote some be more hote and some be colde and some be more cold lyke wyse of thynges incorporall some be great and some be greater As of vertue some is good and some better and of vyce some is euyll some is worse how sayst thou thynkest not thou that this pryncyple is reasonable and trew ¶ Comyngo ¶ I thynke yt is trewe that thou sayst ¶ Gyngemyn ¶ Than thus is not some syn offence that a man cōmytteth somtyme more and somtyme lesse ¶ Comyn ¶ I thynke so Gyn. ¶ And doth not euery offence deserue punyshment ¶ Comyn ¶ yes ¶ Gyng ¶ Than is there no degrees in punyshment as well as there is degrees in synne offence so that some punyshment is more and some is lesse and is there not also degrees in repentaunce and some repentaunce is great some greater and also degrees in forgyuenes pardone as some forgyuenes and pardone great and some greater ¶ Comyn ¶ what than ¶ Gynge ¶ Thā ought not euery offence synne be punysshed by y e iustyce of god in order and degree accordyng as it is so y t yf y e offence synne be great it ought to haue a great punyshment and yf it be small it ought to haue smal punyshment ¶ Co. ¶ Iuste ¶ Gyn. ¶ Than I say whā that a man here in yerth hath cōmytted a great synne and offence and taken repentaūce wherby the synne is forgyuen and yet hath not takē such sufficient repentaunce therfore nor had any suffycyent punyshment whych shulde make a full payment and satisfaccyō for that synne and dyeth before any cōdygne or full satysfaccion made god must nedys than of his ryghteous nes ordeyne a place of purgatory where hys soule shall haue a forther pu nyshment to make a condygne and full satysfaccyō for that synne and so to be purged and puryfyed before yt shall be able worthy to be admytted to receyue the eternall ioy in heuen As by example yf a man cōmyt a treason agaynste his prynce wherfore he ought by order of the lawe to lese his goodes and to haue imprysonment and also to be put to detche and when he is conuycted there vppon than because he seeyth he can not auoyde from the punyshment of the lawe he is repentaunt and sory for his offence and prayeth hys prynce of forgyuenes yet this repentaunce sorowe that he taketh for his offence 〈◊〉 can neuer be so great but that yet this prynce by iustyce may take his good and inpryson hys body and af ter that put hym to dethe for the sayde offence by order of his lawes do hym iustyce And so at his pleasure execute y e extremyte of hys law wyth out doyng any wronge to hym But yet this prynce may yf he wyl by his mercy pardon his lyfe take hys goodes impryson his body for a tyme and season or as longe as he wyll at hys pleasure and accordyng to the degre and qualyte of the same offence tyll he haue made a full satysfaccyon to hys prynce for that treasō done to hym but yet yf y ● prynce shuld punyshe euery offender to thexstremyte of deth wythoute any mercy it shuld seme a thynge so wnyng to cruelte and also clerely agayns y ● prerogatyue of hys mercyfull power and auctoryte And also yf a prynce in suche case shulde forgyue euery suche offender for suche a great offence whyche hath taken but a small repentaunce and soro we therfore it shuld bothe be an example to all suche offenders and to gyue thē and all other comfort and boldnes to do lyke offences whyche were a thynge y t shulde 〈◊〉 to the subuersyon of his lawe and derogacion of iustyee Therfore yf such a prynce wold be reputed for a dyscret prynce a mercyfull prince he must somtyme forgyue the hole offence and somtyme execute iustyce accordyng to hys lawes and also somtyme pardone parte of the punyshment condigne for the offence and gyue but a temporall pun●shment for a tyme and season accordynge to the degre and qualyte of the o●fence of the repentaunce And so lyke wyse whan that a man hath commytted a synne an offence and taketh some repentaunce therfore but not suffy cyent and than dyeth thā god of hys goodnes by y ● order of his iustyce mercy muste somtyme pardone that offence from the eternall deth and yet gyue hym some punyshment which shuld not be to the extremyte as to condem●ne hys soule to eternall sorowe and payne but to haue some 〈◊〉 for a tyme and season to puryfye to purge the soule of that offence accordynge to degree and qualyte of the offence for as I sayde before as there is degeees in repentaunce as some is more and some is 〈◊〉 ●o god of h●s iustyce must vse degrees in forgyuenes and in pardon so that though he forgyue the eternall payne and sorowe whych is cōdygne for the great offence and synne whych the man dyd cōmyt yet it ston deth wyth the great dyscreat wysdom of god to punysh the soule for that offence for a season to puryfye and purge it that yt may be able to be admytted to come to the eternall ioy for the which he was made and create For yf that men cōmyttynge dyuers synnes or offences agayns god in dyuers orders and degrees as some more some lesse and dyuers of thē take repentaunce dyuersly some more and some lesse and than yf god shulde not vse dyuers degrees of forgyuenes and pardon but punysshe euery of them eternally therfore yt shuld sown than to the subuersyon of hys owne
after the naturall deth that man can take no such repentaunce wherby he shuld be helyd of that mortall synnc and offence than god of his iustice must cler●ly expulse his soule from the eternall ioy in heuen because it is putryfyed corrupted But yet yf a man haue commytted suche a great mortall synne offence to god and hath taken repentaunce wherby that mortall stroke woūd is heled before his deth before his soule is separate pulled fro y t body but yet that mā is not fully purged therof or ●lle not clene of other small offences nor redy nor rype to do pure clene seruyce to god in heuē but that there remayneth in hym some tokens spottes of synne and offence god of his iustyce may not then condempne his soule to eternall punyshment nor immedyatly to rec●yue that soule to the blysse ofheuē to ioy to cōpany wyth those gloryfyed pure soules in heuen tyll those tokens and spottes of synne be clere wasshed awaye and purged and he made re dy 〈◊〉 to do to god pure and clene seruyce in heuen Therfore than by conuenyent iustyce of god there inuste nedys be a place of purgacyon where his soule must be purged and made clene of those tokens spottes of synne or that it be able to be receyued to the eternal ioy in heuen And also a lyke resemblaunce I may make of thynges whych haue soule sensy tyue as yf thou haue a swyne which is infected with pox or other syknes or an ox that is infected with any syknes which swyne or ox yf they shuld be than slayne were not good nor holsome for mānys mete but the flesh putryfyed corupte and yet by medycyn and good kepyng that swyne or oxe may be heled and than whyle those 〈◊〉 be lyuynge nature shall ex pulse those infectuos humours brynge those bestes agayne to helthe make them so wnde and theyr flesh good and holsome for mannys mete But yet yf those bestes whyche haue ven infecte with such corrupt syknes haue taken medycyne and that corrupt syknes therby expelled euer in cresynge to more helth and the felsh holsome ynoughe to be eten for man ●ys mete But yet the flesh is so bare and lene that it is not pleasaunt to ete as other flesh is Or cllys yf such bestys haue taken some dysease by ex cessyue colde or hete the flesh not putryfyed nor corrupte but bare and lene and therfore not pleasaunt to be eten for mannys mete yet yf those best vs be kylled yet thou mayst make the flesshe of those bestys though it be neuer so lene by sethynge or rostynge it wyth butter or fat larde to be good mannes mete and pleasaūt to be eten able to serue the at thy dyner or feast for thy frendes and louers So in the same maner it is whā that a man is infecte wyth a great mortall synne which he hath commytted agayns god And yf his soule were than separate from his body yet then hys soule ought not to be receyued of god in to heuen nor to do seruyce there vnto god because it is putryfyed and corrupted with y t foule mortall synne but yf that mā had taken the medecin of full repētaunce in his lyfe that medecyn wold haue restored hym agayne to his soule helth and vertue But yet yf he haue taken some repentaunce for that synne and of fence and not suffycient not had suffycyent tyme to make suffycyent sa tysfaccyon therfore yet by the takynge of that medecyn of repentaunce that syn is expelled and gon and the soule of that s●kenes and synne is clerely hole but yet the tokēs and spottys of that synne whiche is a defor myt● to the soule do styll remanyn in that soule tyll y t soule haue a tyme to be wasshed and purged from those tokēs and spottys to make yt pure and dene of that deformyte ¶ An obieccyon that the soule vnpurged maye do some meane and lowe seruyce to god in h●uē though it be not the hyest and best seruyc● so that it nedeth not to be purged Caput viii COmyngo ¶ yet me thynketh that proueth not y ● of necessyte there must be a purgatory to purge to wasshe a way clene those spottes and tokens whych is but a deformyte to the soule but cōsyderynge that by that medecyne of repentaunce that sekenes of the soule is therby put awaye and expelled and the soule so made hole agayne all though that there be spottes and tokens remaynynge which is but a deformyte to the soule and no mortall sekenes those tokens spottes than nede not to be wasshed away but yf they remayne styll yet they do no hurte but y t soule may do good and perfyte seruyce to god in heuē for all though that god wyll not put such soules in the hyest and most purest place in heuen becau se they be not so pure as other soules be but somwhat deformed whyche is but as an eye sore yet he wyll not clerely expell thē out of heuē but put them in some other low place in heuen As by example yf y ● a man which kepeth an honorable house and vseth to feaste great lordes and estates at his table and prepareth fyne dyaper table clothys and napkyns where wyth to serue them at his table at his dyners and feaste yf ony of those table clothes or napkēs be defouled wyth dust fylth or other foule mater which is not swete yet y t man will not suffer those clothes to be occupyed at his table tyll they be wasshed and made clene and the fylth so clerely expelled that they may be swete and clene worthy to serue hym at his table But yet yf they haue ben so defouled wyth some foule fylth wher by they be stayned that though they be wasshed neuer so clene yet some spot and token wyll remayne of that staynynge so that though they be pure clene and swete inough to do seruyce at his table yet y ● spottes and tokens of the steynynge whych remayne be than a great deformyte ●ye sore yet this mā yf he be wyse wyll not caste away those clothes but wyll that they shall do hym seruyce in some other place and offyce of his house as in his buttry or ewry or his chāber where they shal do to him as good seruyce as though they were not stayned nor had no such spottes nor tokens of deformyte to the eye And lyke resemblance also I may make of a prynce whych must retayne in hys house to be hys houshold seruaūtes such men as he cā chuse in hys reame which be clene mē hole mē of body some to be in hys pryue chāber some in hys hall and some in hys kychyn and some in other places of hys house yf any such seruantes whych thys prynce hath chosen to be in hys house haue had any great syknes wherof he is by medecyne throughly helyd and yet
wylt bynde god to be in a maner in bondage to haue lesse liberte auctorite than prynces and kynges haue in thys world for thou knowest well that a prynce or a kyng may by his power remitte ꝑdone any traytour mor derer ●rer felon ●in hys realme though he haue deserued therfore to dye 〈◊〉 yet there is no such traytour in●rderer nor felon that can cōpell that prynce to pardone hym al though that he aske hym forgyuenes but that that p●ynce may execute hys ordynary power vpon hym at hys lyberte to put hym to deth by y ● order of hys lawes or elles to ydone hym of deth ●ue hym some other punyshmēt for hys offence as prysonmēt or some other payne by hys dyscr●yō so thy repentaūce may be such so great y t god by hys or●ynary power maye and wyll forgyue the clerely bothe the synne ● y ● satysfacciō therfore it may be so small a repentaūce that god wyl forgyue the y ● synne and not clerely expulse the out of his fauour but yet wyll that thou shalt haue a forther punyshment to make the as pure and clere as thou wast before and so than able to be receyued in to his f● uour and to be pertyner of his glory so these thynges cōsydered it must folowe necessarely that there must nedes be a purgatory ¶ A nother reason for a conclusyon of thys mater I shall shewe the because I can nat tary myche longer wyth the yf thou or ony other shulde hold thys opynyon chat god for a lytyll repentaūce had be thy for thyne offences and synnes shulde so ꝑdone and forgyue the so y t thou shuldest not nede to make any other satysfaccyō or restitucyon to thy neyghbour whom thou haste so wronged and after thy dethe thou shuldest haue no nother punyshment in purgatory therfore and to beleue that there is no purgatory ordeyned therfore thys thyng shuld put away y ● drede of god from the most parte of the people in the worlde and gyue them boldnes to do and commytte offences and synnes and yf the people shuld beleue that they neuer neded to make any satysfaccion nor restytucion to theyr neyghbours for the wronges that they haue done to theyr neyghbours and that suche a lyght repentaūce shuld be suffycyent for ony other satys faccyon to be made yt shulde gyue to the people suche boldnes that they wolde neuer force nor care what wronges e●ons theftes roberyes● nor morders that they dyd and so in conclusyon shuld destroy all vertue and increase vyce and synne and also vtterly destroy the comen welthe quiete lyuynge of the people ¶ ●go ¶ Thy reasons and solucyon to all my questyons and obieccions be so good that thou hast meruelous well satysfyed my mynde in euery thyng yt shuld seme a great meruel how thou shuldest come to so hye lernynge knowlege saue y t I meruell mych the lesse because I herde the say that thou hast be brought vp some parte of thy youth in crystendome and ben a student in dyuers ●rsytes in crystēdome where thou saydest thou dydest ierne and rede ●ych phylosophye wherby as I sayd thou hastnow satysfyed my mynde right well and that now I must nedys consente vnto the that there must ned● be a purgatory for y ● purgyng of mēnes soules after that they be separat from the body and also by the same last reason whych thou hast shewed yt ꝓueth well that yt shuld be a great folyshnes for y ● people to beleue the contrary therof that is to say y t there shuld be no purgatory for y t folysh beleue shuld be meruelous hurtfull to y ● peple for fyrst as thou saydest it shuld bryng thē from the drede of god whych drede of god is the begynnyng of all wysdom And we know well y t y ● fraylte of mākynde is such y ● it is euermore more ꝓne redy to vice thā to vertue wherfore mā hath nede to haue both a brydel of law which is to punysh vyce in this world also a brydell of y ● drede of god whych is a drede to offende for y ● loue of god and a drede to be punysshed in an other world for offence done here in thys transytory lyfe But yf men shulde beleue that there is no purga tory but that immediatly the soule of man for a lytell small repentaunce takē shuld go streyght to heuen yt shulde as thou saydest gyue thē suche a boldnes that many men wold lytell regarde what hurte or wrong they dyd to theyr neyghbours and so shuld be the cause to brynge the peple to lyue to geder contynually in trouble vexacyon vnquietnesse of mynde to the destruccion of theyr own comē welth in this world It shuld also cause the vtter losse and dampnacion in hell of many thousand soules be cause they wold euer trust that yf they lyued neuer so vyciously that yet they wolde or they dyed take some repentaunce wherin peraduentur● many shuld be deceyued For we se by experyence that there be many pe ple in the worlde whyche dye sodeynly some be sodeynly drowned some sodeynly slayn● and some dye sodeynly of some other sekenes peraduē ture haue no tyme to remember god or thynke of any repentaunce and than yf such people that so dye haue offended god and commytted some great mortall synne for the whyche god by his iustyce must condempne hym to eternall dampnacyon in hell thys boldnes of trust to take repen taunce or ther dye where they be deceyued for lacke of tyme shuld ca● many thousandes of peple to be eternally dampned in hell And an other thynge yet there is to be consydered whych I haue gederd vpon thy re● sons argumentes that yf a man offende and commytte some small venyall synne for the whych god wyll that by hys iustyce he must haue som punyshment therfore but yet not eternall dampnacyon yf such a synnet dye sodenly and before he haue had any tyme to take any repentaunce● hys soule as yt is prouyd by all thy forsayd argumētys reasons ought neyther immedyatly to come in to y ● gloryous place of heuen because yt is somwhat defouled wyth synne nor also ought not to go to hell to etet nall dampnacy on but by all good order of iustyce must go to a place to be purged there to be made clene that yt may be receyued after that in to the gloryous place of heuen Therfore vpon these reasons whych thou hast shewed these premysses consydered he shall be proued a very stark fole that wyll beleue that there is no purgatory ¶ Gynge ¶ I am very glad now that thy mynde is satysfyed in this mater and therfore now be cause I haue a lytel besynes to do touchyng y ● fete of my marchaundyse I wyll departe byd the farewell ¶ Comyn ¶ Now I thanke the wyth all ●yn hart and I shall loue the whyle
I lyue and wolde to god y ● thou were of our holy secte and crysten beleue and so I wyll counsell the and requyre the to be ¶ Gynge ¶ I thanke you for your good counsell but as to that request I wyll not she we the my mynde at thys tyme because I haue now no tyme nor space how be yt I know well y ● Cryst of whom ye crysten men beleue was a very holy mā a good hath taught you so many good lessons of vertue y t there can be no better whyche I wyll ad uyse y t to obs● kepe And a nother time ꝑaduēture I shal mete with the agayne and shew to the my mynde but now I praye y ● pardone me for I must nedys departe from the therfore yet agayn I say now farewell ¶ Comyn ¶ well then syth thou wylt ned● begone I pray god gyue the grace y t thou mayst do well and to become one of our holy sect beleue I pray god be thy gyde Amen ¶ Thus endeth thys lytell treatyse gedered and compyled by Iohn̄ Rastell And also by the same Iohn̄ imprynted and fully fynysshed the. x. day of October y ● yere of our lord god M. CCCCC XXX ¶ Cum priuilegio Regali Tabula The chapytres of the fyrst dialoge An introduccyon to the mater Caput primum That god was without begynnyng the fyrst cause of all thyng Ca. ii That god is and shall be wythout ende Caput iii. That god is moost of power and the moost noble thynge that can be Caput iiii That god is the very lyfe and that he hath the most ioyfull and pleasaūt lyfe that can be Caput v. That god hath knowlege and vnderstanding and knoweth euery thing that euer was is or shall be Caput vi That god is the hye good thynge and most parfyte goodnes and the ve ry truthe Caput vii That vertue is euermore in god Caput viii That iustyce must euermore be in god and is euer ryghteous and iuste Caput ix That god is euer mercyfull Caput x. That the iustyce and mercy of god be correspondēt and that the one can not be wythout the other Caput xi That god doth gouerne all and cōserueth all and doth take hede to all Caput xii That god is euery where alway in euery place of y ● world Cap. xiii That god is but one thynge and not dyuets thynges Caput xiiii That there is but one god Caput xv That god is hole in dyuers places Caput xvi That god is eternall Caput xvii The chapytres of the seconde dialoge That it is cōuenyent and nedesull to proue the immortalyte of mannys soule by reason Caput i. what is a dyffynycyon and what is a descrypcyon Caput ii what is a body what is a soule and what is a man Caput iii. That it is wysdom to byleue that the soule of man is immortall Ca. iiii yf the soule of man shulde not be immortall than were man the vnhappyest of all other creatures and besles Caput v. That the soule of man vseth his operacyon and properte without the bo dy and may so haue a beynge wythout the body Caput vi That god doth wyll the perpetuall lyfe welth and preseruacyon of mannes soule and his wyll must be performed Caput vii yf the soule of man shuld not be immortall than god doth not mynyster to euery man equall iustyce Caput viii That the soule of mā is made to be parttaker of blysfulnes and ioy that euer shall endure Caput ix That the soule of man knoweth and perceyueth many thynges without the body nor it depēdeth not nor corrupteth not with the body Ca. x. That the natural appetyte of the soule of mā is to come to the knowledge of the hye cause whych is god Caput xi That the soule of man hath no nother cause of hys beyng but god which is infynyte Caput xii That the materyall substaūce of no thyng in the world can be corrupted no more can mannys soule Cap. xiii That mannys soule that is the most perfyte and most noble thynge that euer god dyd ordeyne and create must haue most longe tyme to contynew and remayne in his beynge Cap. xiiii That the soule of man hath his full perfeccion as sone as it is annexed to the body and that increasyth not successyuely Caput xv The dyfferens betwene the memorye and phantasye of a brute beste and the soule of a man and that all scyence is in mannes soule at the begynnynge Caput xvi That the fantasye and memorye of a brute beest is corruptyble and mortall and the soule of man immortall Caput xvii ¶ that the soule of man vseth not alway his operaciō properte Ca. xviii ¶ that euery mannes soule is of lyke perfeccyon Cap. xix ¶ what knowlege mannes soule hath after it is separate from the body what maner of beynge yt hath Caput xx The chapytres of the thyrde dialoge ¶ that the soule doth suffer and not the body and that by y ● iustyce of god there muste be a purgatory because that somtyme man dyeth wythout makynge full satysfaccyon Caput pr●um An obie●yō because repentaūce is y t only thyng clerely y t wass●eth put teth away all synne done by man y ● god of hys iustyce must than dyscharge hym therof therfore yt nedeth thā no nother purgatory Cap. ii ¶ the solucion yf god shuld be cōpelled to forgyue the synne immedyatly after repentaunce he shulde be restrayned of his lyberte and from the execucyon of hys iustyce Caput iii. An obieccyon because man is ordeyned to haue an infynyte beyng ther fore after hys deth he muste haue infynyte ioye or infynyte payne so no payne in purgatory whych hath an ende Caput iiii ¶ the solucion as there be degrees in syn as some synne is more and som lesse so there be degrees in repentaunce as some may be more some lesse and also degrees of pardō and forgyuenes therfore man for lack of suffycyent repentaunce must be purged Caput v. An obieccion that because there be degrees in heuē hell of ioy payne that it is nedeles for god to putte any purgatorye for he maye execute his full and indyfferent iustyce in one of those two placys Ca. vi The solucyon that as the appell whych hath a vegetatyue soule and as the beste whiche hath a sensytyue soule may be purged after that they be seueryd frō theyr naturall growynge lyfe of such tokens spotte which be a deformyte to thē so the soule intellectyfe must be purged of those tokens spott● of synne whych was a d●formyte to it Ca. vii An obieccion that the soule vnpurged may do som meane low seruyce to god in heuen though it be not the hyest and best seruyce so that it nedeth not to be purged Ca. viii The solucyon that nothynge vnpurged and vnpure may remayne or abyde in heuen Cap. ix An obieccyon that yf there shulde be any place of purgatorye than that place shulde be here in erthe or elles yf there be any other place where is that place of purgatory Cap. x. The solucyon that yf god shuld be compelled to make purgatory here in erth that than god that is the hye iudge shuld be restrayned from his lyberte and authoryte more than any other yerthly iudge and also y ● it is a folysh questyon to aske where purgatory is Cap. xi An obieccyon because the mercy of god can not be without his iustyce remissyon is ●ydent to repentaunce therfore as sone as repentaūce is taken god of his iustyce muste gyue re●yssyon and therfore there ought to be no purgatory Cap. xii The solucyon yf god shuld gyue full remyssyon for euery synne without other satysfaccion thā god shuld minyster his mercy wythout iustyce And as a man may offende to god alone also to god to his neygh bour therfore satysfaccyon must be made bothe to god to his neygh boure or elles hys neyghbour is not restored to his owne Cap xiii ¶ An obieccyon that when god forgyueth it nede no satysfaccyon to thy neyghbour because god is the very owner of all and thy neyghboure hathe no properte but as a seruaunte to god as but to make acounte to god therfore Cap. xiiii The solucyon that god hath an absolute power and an ordynary power and that by his ordynary power he can not discharge the yf thy repentaunce be not suffycyent And also y t thou canste not compelle god to forgyue the by his absolute power at thy pleasure Cap. xv ¶ Finis calendari● Johannes Rastell