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A79503 Moderate message to Quakers, seekers and Socinians, by a friend and well-wisher to them all, or Some arguments offered to clear up three points in difference betwixt them and others ... By John Child. Child, John, 1638?-1684. 1676 (1676) Wing C3850; ESTC R171309 24,333 83

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whether there be any under such circumstances in this Age that Renders the Persons fit and the Ministry warrantable Of these three Propositions in their Order To the first of these 1. We affirm that there is but two things necessary to the make or constitution of a Minister 1 Ability or Qualification to fit for it 2 Authority or Commission from God to impower to the performance of it The ability or qualification consists in two things 1. understanding to know 2. utterance to divulge of report those things that may answer the ends of a Ministry in which respect there is these two things requisite 1. To be able to understand the divine Authority and truth of the holy Scriptures 2 to understand and report the sence and mind of God contained in them in all the weighty and necessary points of Religion the reason of this is because it 's a received truth that the holy Scriptures are able to make wise unto salvation and therefore must contain all things essential thereunto and ability to Minister two things will answer the end of a Ministry and the truth is these two things are the very basis of all Christianity in the world and the denying or Removing of them is no less then the shaking of the very foundation and ground work of Christianity all over the earth for take away the Divine Authority and truth of the Scriptures or the sence and mind of God in all necessary points contained in them and then resolve us by what means we shall become Christians the like dismal consequence follows upon the denyal of the qualification for if none be able to understand and prove the divine Authority and truth of the Scripture then is all truth lost at once for who can tell whether it be the Alcaron the Bible the Leviathan or some thing else And if none be able to understand the sence and mind of God contained in the Scriptures in all weighty and necessary points although the Scriptures be the truth yet we are never the nearer because they are Scaled up so as none can understand them and teach them And then it Roundly follows that none can hear them and believe them according to St. Pauls maxim how shall they hear and believe without a Preacher and if none can hear and believe them where then is Christianity it is all lost and it must needs be a folly in men to make a do about Godliness and Christianity when there is none able to make out any such thing now upon admiting this Hypothesis to be true viz. that Ability or Qualification is every where wanting in this Age let us lay the consequents that follows thereupon altogether and see how frightfully they look upon us 1. The truth and Divine Authotity of Scripture cannot be asserted and proved 2. The sence and mind of God contained in them cannot be known 3. Then the world is left without a sufficiency to defend truth against errour and Satans party is the strongest side for they have sufficient amunition to charge their minds withall against Christianity Goodness and Vertue but the Children of vertue have not any thing but the bare dictats of nature to help themselves 4. Christianity is a false and groundless denomination for there is none able to prove the Reality and good ground of any such thing 5. There is no firm and standing rules of Religion more than the variable wits and tempers of men admits of 6. No light nor salt for the world but what results from the heart and invention of man 7. No witness for God but what man shall see good with his own eyes without the help of an infallible perspective Glass and none at all for Christ for his name must be shut out of the world because the dictates of nature doth not Preach him 8. No ground to suffer for the Religion of the blessed Jesus because we are not able to know whether there was such a man or such a thing or no. 9. No External Motives to comfort under afflictions because no ground of an Immortality or life to come which was only set forth and brought to light by that Ministration called the Gospel which no man is able to understand and believe 10. No such thing as true Faith or Church for these are Fictions and fanciful dreams that there is no ground for their being knowable not so much as their very names 11. No ground to look for or expect Salvation hereafter because no promise of it understood by any in this Age nor is it Infallibly determinable whether that poor mean people that dare not swagger in Riotousness and Sin or those jolly and jumping Boys that can do any thing that they are prompted to or capable of shall partake of it 12. No dutiful care by vertue of any visible or known Precept over one anothers Souls and what then and whither then whether to die like Beasts and be no more or to go to Heaven or to Hell is not determinable because nothing speaks to the Resolution of this Question touching a Life to come and place of Residence after Death but a certain Book called the Bible which the Opinion opposed saith cannot be understood and taught but from such Premises and Conclusions Good Lord deliver every sincere Soul Amen And the like Absurdities are ready to break in upon us like a Flood if that Principle be admitted That though men are able to Teach and Instruct yet there is no ground and warrant for them so to do For first then may all men lay it down because it is a groundless and vain thing and the Devil and his Party may say to the most Pious Painful and ablest Teachers of Christianity and Vertue who hath required this at your hands 2. It renders all gifts both of understanding and utterance in the matters of Religion and Christianity useless for if there be no warrant for Working there is no Reward and then what motive or incouragement to induce to it 3. No ground to witness against wickedness to reprove or convince Men and Women for Sin to teach Children to be Religious or to bear up the Name of Christ in the world All that suffered for a Ministry or publick Witness did foolishly because they had not the gift of Tongues cannot work Miracles want an immediate Commission or an Ordination by a Lineal Succession neither of which is Essential to the make or Instalment of a Minister of which we would discourse at large if it was convenient and undertake to make good this proposition viz. that the command of God upon Divine Record with the approbation consent and regular choice of the People meeting upon a person of a competent Ability is sufficient for an Installment where the four things before mentioned are wanting Now if these two grand qualifications be granted 1. That Ability to prove the Divine Authority of the Scriptures 2. To understand and set forth the sence and mind of God contained in
his Ministry unless we shall suppose that Confession of Sinne Repentance and owning the Mesiah as well as Baptism was to decrease then which there can be nothing more absurd to conclude we think and say further then with much more probabillity that not Johns Ministry but the great fame and Master-ship of John was to decrease as to the having disciples call'd by his name the disciples of John and the like for after Christs publique enterance upon his Ministry as John did point and direct men to Christ as their chiefe leader so they were afterwards taught by Christ to call no man Master but soly to own him and be called the disciples of Jesus not of John And for this there is good reason to be given but for the other if there was no more reason then that it is uncertain it were sufficient but we further say to conclude Johns ministry was to decrease and be made Null upon the appearance of Christ as there is no reason to be plainly shewed from this Text and as it is very unsafe to violate and reject a sacred duty upon so uncertain a ground as a private interpretation of a particular text that the Interpretation is for me and a stranger and therefore deservedly to be cast out and have no inheritance for the dispossessing of Johns Ministry which we dismiss with this Argument Arg. 34 Those Duties that have been ratified and confirmed by many signal and weighty circumstances ought not to be violated or rejected upon so slender a ground as the meer Interpretation of a particular Text. But the Baptism and Ministry of John hath been so Ratified and confirmed Ergo the Baptism and Ministry of John ought not after so slight and careless a manner to be rejected and made void And as to the Commission of Christ Mat. 28. we Answer If any shall suppose that thereby the Baptism and Ministry of John was made void 1 That it doth not plainly appear from thence but is at most but Interpretatively so therefore unsafe to rely upon in the ruin of a plain part or Precept of the Gospel 2 That the Commission aforesaid did not make void the Baptism and Ministry of John for these Reasons 1. It 's not congruous to suppose that Christ should institute and set up one part of the Gospel to Enervate and make void another part of it which Johns Baptism and Ministry hath been proved to be 2. It doth not infallibly appear that the Baptism given in the Commission of Christ was different from that of Johns as to matter form and subject which are the main parts of Baptism and if there was some small difference in point of circumstance it will not be sufficient to prepondrate and out-weigh a plain and clear duty and there can no plain difference be made to appear betwixt the Baptism of John and that given in our Saviours Commission unless it be in the use of words viz. In the Name of the Father Son and Holy Ghost and this amounts to these three things 1. The setting forth the Existency of the Trinity that Three such were 2. The capacity and dignity of the Trinity they were to Baptize in their Names which was a Witness or Testimony on the Ministers part and a subscription on the Submitters part to the preheminence of this holy Trinity in opposition to the Instruction of any other either as a Third Person to seclude any one of these or as a fourth to be equal with them in their United Dignity 3. The work and opperation they joyntly intended to be concern'd in and more than this is no subject of Baptism bound to believe and acknowledge in or upon their Baptism that is to say The Being of Father Son and Holy Ghost The Dignity of Father Son and Holy Ghost the work and opperation of Father Son and Holy Ghost in carrying on the great design of the Gospel and if these words were not used by John in the Act of Baptizing yet the thing was set forth in his Ministry and at the same time while the Minister and Submitter were together and therefore we do affirm that John did in his Baptism and Ministry direct into the same Faith as the Apostles by their Commission were to Teach and Baptise into viz. the Being Dignity and opperation of the Trinity And no man can be certain that our Saviour did injoyne more in his great Commission or that the Apostles did make use of that very form of words in the Act of Baptising The conclusion then is that for any thing that yet appears the Baptism contained in the Commission was and was to be the same in all points with the Baptism of John and therefore from thence appears no certain ground of an Abrogation Indeed our Saviour did do three things in reference to Johns Baptism by his great Commission 1 he confirm'd it by commanding his Disciples to keep it up and carry it on 2 he adds perfection and clearness to it by his great Authority his short and plain Instruction about the design of it which was to bring his followers to subscribe to the Doctrine of the Trinity in th●ir submission to it 3 he did further extend it by ordering of it into all the world which John did not do our Result is that neither the words of John I must decrease nor the Commission of our Saviour to his Disciples to Baptize doth fairly make Null the Baptism and Ministry of John from whence we offer this Argument Arg. 35 That which is fairly and infallibly proved once to be Gods Ordinance and Mans duty ought not without a fair and infallible ground to be accounted Null and void But the Baptism and Ministration of John is fairly and infallibly proved to be Gods Ordinance and mans duty Ergo it ought not without the like ground to be accounted Null and void and if any shall still oppose what hath been contended for I shall only state this question to be debated with them and end this first point by two short Arguments Quest Whether the Baptism commanded by God Administred by John submitted to by Jesus and after his Death owned and practised by his extraordinary Ministers be put an end to or made Null Arg. 36 If the Baptism and Ministry of John was by the Holy Ghost reputed and owned to be the way of the Lord after the Ascention of our Saviour then 't is in force still but it was so Ergo Acts 18.25 26. Arg. 37 If Baptism with Water be not in force still as well as other parts of Johns ministry then it is somewhere exempted But Baptism with Water is no where Exempted Ergo. And now let us see if we can find an Administrator In this Enquiry after a Minister we will propose Three things 1. To state what a Minister is in his make and constitution 2. What doth warrant him to Act or Perform the Work and Office of a Minister 3. And then put it upon this fair Issue viz.