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A02563 The olde religion a treatise, wherin is laid downe the true state of the difference betwixt the reformed, and Romane Church; and the blame of this schisme is cast vpon the true authors. Seruing for the vindication of our innocence, for the setling of wauering minds for a preseruatiue against Popish insinuations. By Ios. Hall, B. of Exon. Hall, Joseph, 1574-1656. 1628 (1628) STC 12690; ESTC S117610 79,903 246

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the faithfull except Martyrs in some blinde receptacles whether in the Center of the earth or elsewhere where they might in candida expectare diem Iudicij as Tertullian hath it foure seuerall times And Stapleton himselfe sticks not to name diuers of them thus fouly mistaken Others of the Fathers haue let fall speeches directly bent against this Inuocation Non opus est patronis c. There is no need of any Aduocates to God saith Saint Chrysostome and most plainly elsewhere Homines si quando c. If wee haue any suit to men saith he wee must fee the porters and treat with iesters and parasites and goe many times a long way about In God there is no such matter he is exorable without any of our Mediatours without mony without cost he grants our petitions It is enough to cry for thee with thine heart alone to powre out thy teares and presently thou hast won him to mercie Thus hee And those of the Ancients that seeme to speake for it lay grounds that ouerthrow it Howsoeuer it be all holy Antiquitie would haue both blushed and spit at those formes of Inuocation which the late Clients of Rome haue broached to the world If perhaps they spake to the Saints tanquam deprecatores vel potius comprecatores as Spalatensis yeelds mouing them to bee competitioners with vs to the throne of grace not properly but improperly as Altisiodore construes it how would they haue digested that blasphemous Psalter of our Ladie imputed to Bonauenture and those stiles of meere Deification which are giuen to her and the diuision of all offices of pietie to mankinde betwixt the mother and the Sonne How had their eares glowed to heare Christus orauit Franciscus exoranit Christ praied Francis preuailed How would they haue brooked that which Ludouicus Viues freely confesses Multi Christiani c· Many Christians worship diuos diua●que the Saints of both sexes no otherwise then God himselfe Or that which Spalatensis professes to haue obserued that the ignorant multitude are carried with more entire religious affection to the blessed Virgin or some other Saint then to Christ their Sauiour These foule superstitions are not more hainous then new and such as wherein we haue iustly abhorred to take part with the practices of them SECT II. Inuocation of Saints against Scripture AS for the better side of this mis-opinion euen thus much colour of Antiquitie were cause enough to suspend our censures according to that wise and moderate resolution of learned Zanchius were it not that the Scriptures are so flatly opposite vnto it as that we may iustly wonder at that wisdome which hath prouided Antidotes for a disease that of many hundred yeares after should haue no being in the World The ground of this Inuocation of Saints is their notice of our earthly condition and speciall Deuotions And behold thou preuaylest euer against man and he passeth thou changest his countenance and sendest him away His sonnes come to honour and hee knowes it not and they are brought low and he perceiueth it not saith Iob. The dead know nothing at all saith wise Salomon Also their loue and their hatred and their enuie is now perished neither haue they any more a portion for euer in any thing that is done vnder the Sunne No portion in any thing therefore not in our miseries not in our allocutions If we haue a portion in them for their loue and Prayers in common for the Church they haue no portion in our particularities whether of want or complaint Abraham our Father is ignorant of vs saith Esay and Israel acknowledges vs not Loe the Father of the faithful aboue knowes not his own children till they come into his bosome and hee that giues them their names is to them as strangers Wherefore should good Iosiah bee gathered to his Fathers as Hulda tels him but that his eyes might not see all the euill which should come vpon Ierusalem Wee cannot haue a better Commenter then Saint Augustine If saith hee the soules of the dead could be present at the affaires of the liuing c. Surely my good Mother would no night forsake me whom whiles she liued shee followed both by Land and Sea Farre be it from mee to thinke that an happier life hath made her cruell c. But certainly that which the holy Psalmist tels vs is true My Father and my Mother haue forsaken me but the Lord tooke me vp If therefore our Parents haue left vs how are they present or doe interesse themselues in our cares or businesses And if our Parents do not who else among the dead know what wee doe or what wee suffer Esay the Prophet saith Thou art our Father for Abraham is ignorant of vs and Israel know vs not If so great Patriarkes were ignorant what became of that people which came from their loynes and which vpon their beliefe was promised to descend from their stocke how shall the dead haue ought to doe either in the knowledge or aide of the affaires or actions of their dearest Suruiuers How doe we say that God prouides mercifully for them who die before the euils come if euen after their death they are sensible of the calamities of humane life c. How is it then that God promised to good King Iosiah for a great blessing that hee should die before hand that he might not see the euils which hee threatned to that place and people Thus that diuine Father With whom agrees Saint Ierome Nec enim possumus c. Neither can we saith hee when this life shall once be dissolued either enioy our owne labours or know what shall bee done in the World afterwards But could the Saints of Heauen know our actions yet our hearts they cannot This is the peculiar skill of their Maker Thou art the searcher of the hearts and reines O righteous God God only knowes abscondita animi the hidden secrets of the soule Now the heart is the seat of our Prayers The lips doe but vent them to the eares of men Moses said nothing when God said Let me alone Moses O therefore thou that hearest the Prayers to thee shall all flesh come Salomons argument is irrefragable Heare thou in Heauen thy dwelling place and doe and giue to euery man according to his wayes whose heart thou knowest For thou euen thou only knowest the hearts of all the children of men He only should be implored that can heare hee only can heare the Prayer that knowes the heart Yet could they know our secretest desires It is an honour that God challengeth as proper to himselfe to bee inuoked in our Prayers Call vpon me in the day of thy trouble and I will deliuer thee and thou shalt glorifie me There is one God and one Mediator betwixt God and man the man Iesus Christ. One and no more not only of redemption but of intercession also for
that wee must take this vpon the bare word of Conradus Vrspergensis Secondly that this Indulgence of his is no other but a relaxation of Canonicall penance For hee addes which Bellarmine purposely concealeth ijs qui de capitalibus c. to those that should doe penance for capitall sinnes hee released fortie dayes penance So as this instance helpes nothing neither are the rest which hee hath raked together within the compasse of a few preceding yeeres of any other alloy Neither hath that Cardinall offered to cite one Father for the proofe of this practice the birth whereof was many hundred yeeres after their expiration but cunningly shifts it off with a cleanly excuse Neque mirum c. Neither may it seem strange if wee haue not many ancient Authors that make mention of these things in the Church which are preserued only by vse not by writing So he He sayes Not many authors hee showes not one And if many matters of rite haue been traduced to the Church without notice of pen or presse yet let it be showne what one doctrine or practice of such importance as this is pretended to bee hath escaped the report and maintenance of some Ecclesiasticke Writer or other and we shall willingly yeeld it in this Till then wee shall take this but for a meere colour and resolue that our honest Roffensis deales plainly with vs who tells vs Quam diu nulla fuerat de Purgatorio cura c. So long as there was no care of Purgatorie no man sought after Indulgences for vpon that depends all the opinion of pardons If you take away Purgatorie wherefore should wee need pardons Since therefore Purgatorie was so lately knowne and receiued of the whole Church who can maruell concerning Indulgences that there was no vse of them in the beginning of the Church Indulgences then began after men had trembled somewhile at the torments of a Purgatorie Thus their Martyr not partially for vs but ingenuously out of the power of truth professes the noueltie of two great Articles of the Roman Creed Purgatorie and Indulgences Indeed both these now hang on one string Although there was a kinde of Purgatorie dreamed of before their pardons came into play That deuice peept out fearefully from Origen and pull'd in the head againe as in Saint Austens time doubting to show it Tale aliquod c. That there is some such thing saith hee after this life it is not vtterly incredible and may be made a question And elsewhere I reproue it not for it may perhaps be true And yet againe as retracting what hee had yeelded resolues Let no man deceiue himselfe my brethren there are but two places and a third there is none Before whom Saint Cyprian is peremptorie Quando istinc excessum fuerit When wee are once departed hence there is now no more place of repentance no effect of satisfaction Here is life either lost or kept And Gregorie Nazianzens verse sounds to the same sense And Saint Ambrose can say of his Theodosius that being freed from this earthly warfare Fruitur nunc luce perpetua c. hee now enioyes euerlasting light during tranquillitie and triumphs in the troopes of the Saints But what striue wee in this Wee may well take the word of their Martyr our Roffensis for both And true Erasmus for the ground of this defence Mirum in modum c. They doe maruellously affect the fire of Purgatorie because it is most profitable for their Kitchins SECT II. Indulgences and Purgatorie against Scripture THese two then are so late comne strangers that they cannot challenge any notice taken of them by Scripture Neither were their names euer heard of in the language of Canaan yet the Wisedome of that all-seeing Spirit hath not left vs without preuentions of future errours in blowing vp the very grounds of these humane deuises The first and mayne ground of both is the remainders of some temporall punishments to be paid after the guilt and eternall punishment remitted The driblets of veniall sinnes to bee reckond for when the mortall are defraied Heare what God saith I euen I am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine owne sake and will not remember thy sinnes Loe can the Letter bee read that is blotted out Can there be a back-reckoning for that which shal not be remembred I haue done away thy Transgressions as a Cloud What sinnes can bee lesse then transgressions What can bee more cleerely dispersed then a Cloud Wash me and I shall be whiter then snow Who can tell where the spot was when the skin is rinced If we confesse our sinnes he is faithfull to forgiue our sinnes and to cleanse vs from all vnrighteousnesse Loe he cleanseth vs from the guilt and forgiues the punishment What are our sinnes but debts What is the infliction of punishment but an exaction of payment What is our remission but a striking off that score And when the score is strucke off what remaynes to pay Remitte debita Forgiue our debts is our daily Prayer Our Sauiour tels the Paralitick Thy sinnes are forgiuen thee In the same words implying the remouing of his disease the sinne bee gone the punishment cannot stay behind We may smart by way of chastisement after the freest remission not by way of reuenges for our amendment not for Gods satisfaction The second ground is a middle condition betwixt the state of eternall life and death of no lesse torment for the time then Hell it selfe whose flames may burne off the rust of our remayning sinnes the issues where-from are in the power of the great Pastor of the Church How did this escape the notice of our Sauiour Verify verily I say vnto you hee that heareth my Word and beleeueth in him that sent mee hath euerlasting life and comes not into iudgement as the Vulgar it selfe turnes it but is passed from death vnto life Behold a present possession and immediate passage no iudgement interuening no torment How was this hid from the great Doctor of the Gentiles who putting himselfe into the common case of the beleeuing Corinthians professes Wee know that if once our earthly house of this Tabernacle bee dissolued wee haue a building of God not made with hands eternall in the Heauens The dissolution of the one is the possession of the other here is no interposition of time of estate The wise man of old could say The soules of the righteous are in the hand of God and there shall no torment touch them Vpon their very going from vs they are in peace 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as Saint Iohn heard from the heauenly voyce From their very dying in the Lord is their blessednesse SECT III. Indulgences against Reason IT is absurd in reason to thinke that God should forgiue our Talents and arrest vs for the odde farthings Neither is it lesse absurd to thinke that any liuing soule can haue superfluities of