John Trevor Then we desire they may be produced here and the Copies proved upon Oath and then we shall leave them upon your Lordships Table And my Lords we desire likewise at the same time to save another trouble there may be delivered in the Convictions of Reading Lane Knox and others Then Mr. Clare was Sworn and delivered in the Copies of the Records L. H. Stew. What Record is that Mr. Clare It is the Record of the Attainder of Coleman for high Treason L. H. Stew. Did you examine it Mr. Clare I did examine it L. H. Stew. Is it a true Copy Mr. Clare To the best of my understanding it is Here is likewise a Copy of the Record of the Conviction of Ireland Pickering and Grove for high Treason L. H. Stew. Is there Judgment of Attainder entred upon Record Mr. Clare Yes my Lords there is Judgement entred Here is a Copy of the Indictment Conviction and Attainder of Whitebread Fenwick Harcourt Gavan and Turner for high Treason Here is a Copy of the Record of Attainder of Richard Langhorn for high Treason Here is a Copy of the Attainder of Green Berry and Hill for the Murder of Sir Edmond-bury Godfrey Here is a Copy of the Conviction of Mr. Nathaniel Reading for endeavouring to Suborn Mr. Bedlow to retract his Evidence against some of the Lords in the Tower and Sir Henry Tichbourn L. H. Stew. What is the Judgment there Mr. Clare The Judgment is entred upon it and 't is to pay 1000 l. Fine and to be put in and upon the Pillory in the Palace Yard Westminster for an hour with a Paper upon his head written in great Letters For endeavouring Subornation of Perjury Here is a Copy of the Record of the Conviction of Tasbrough and Price for endeavouring to Suborn Mr. Dugdale and Judgment entred upon it And here is a Copy of the Record of Conviction of Knox and Lane for Conspiring to asperse Dr. Oats and Mr. Bedlow Here is the Record of the Conviction of John Giles for barbarously attempting to Assassinate John Arnold Esq one of His Majesties Justices of the Peace and the Judgment entred thereupon is To stand three times on the Pillory with a Paper on his Hat declaring his Offence to pay â—00 l. to the King to lie in Execution till the same be paid and find Sureties for his Good Behaviour during life L. H. Stew. Deliver them all in And if my Lords have occasion to doubt of any thing being left in the Court they will be there ready â—o be used All which were then delivered in Mr. Treby My Lords we humbly desire that the Record of Coleman may be read because there is more of special matter in it than any of the rest and your Lordships may dispose of the others as you please L. H. Stew. Read the Record of Coleman Then the Clerk read in Latin the Record of the Attainder of Edward Coleman formerly Executed for high Treason by him Committed in this horrid Popish Plot which in English is as followeth viz. Of the Term of Saint MICHAEL in the Thirtieth Year of the Reign of King CHARLES the Second c. Middlesex AT another time to wit on VVednesday next after eight days of St. Martin this same Term before our Lord the King at VVestminster by the Oath of Twelve Jurors honest and lawful Men of the County aforesaid Sworn and Charged to Enquire for our said Lord the King and the Body of the County aforesaid it stands presented That Edward Coleman late of the Parish of Saint Margaret VVestminster in the County of Middlesex Gentleman as a false Traitor against the most Illustrious most Serene and most Excellent Prince our Lord CHARLES the Second by the Grace of God of England Scotland France and Ireland King Defender of the Faith c. and his Natural Lord not having the Fear of God in his Heart nor weighing the Duty of his Allegiance but by the instigation of the Devil moved and seduced the cordial Love and the true due and Natural Obedience which true and faithful Subjects of our said Lord the King towards Him our said Lord the King ought and of right are bound to bear utterly withdrawing and devising and with his whole Strength intending the Peace and common Tranquility of this Kingdom of England to disturb and the true Worship of God within this Kingdom of England practised and by Law established to overthrow and Sedition and Rebellion within this Realm of England to move stir up and procure and the cordial Love and true and due Obedience which true and faithful Subjects of our said Lord the King towards Him our said Lord the King should bear and of right are bound to bear utterly to withdraw blot out and extinguish and our said Lord the King to death and final destruction to bring and put the 29 th day of September in the 27 th year of the Reign of our Lord CHARLES the Second by the Grace of God of England Scotland France and Ireland King Defender of the Faith c. at the Parish of St. Margaret VVestminster aforesaid in the County aforesaid falsly maliciously subtilly and traiterously proposed compassed imagined and intended Sedition and Rebellion within this Realm of England to move raise up and procure and a miserable Slaughter among the Subjects of our said Lord the King to procure and cause and our said Lord the King from his Kingly State Title Power and Government of His Realm of England utterly to deprive depose deject and disinherit and Him our said Lord the King to Death and final Destruction to bring and put and the Government of the same Realm and the sincere Religion of God in this Kingdom rightly and by the Laws of this Realm established for his Will and Pleasure to change and alter and the State of this whole Kingdom in its universal parts well instituted and ordained wholly to subvert and destroy and War against our said Lord the King within this Realm of England to levy and to accomplish and fulfil these his most wicked Treasons and traiterous Imaginations and Purposes aforesaid The same Edward Coleman afterwards to wit the said Twenty ninth day of September in the abovesaid Twenty Seventh year of the Reign of our said Lord the King at the Parish of Saint Margaret VVestminster aforesaid in the County of Middlesex aforesaid falsly subtilly and traiterously devised composed and writ two Letters to be sent to one Monsieur Le Chese then Servant and Confessor of Lewis the French King to desire procure and obtain to the said Edward Coleman and other false Traitors against our said Soveragin Lord the King from the said French King his Aid Assistance and Adherence to alter the true Religion in this Kingdom then and still Established to the Superstition of the Church of Rome and to Subvert the Government of this Kingdom of England And afterwards to wit the said Twenty Ninth Day of September in the abovesaid Twenty Seventh Year
told you of it M. Hanson Old Mr. Sambidge and Mr. Philips the Parson of Tixall L. H. Steward Were they in the House at that time Mr. Hanson Yes L. H. Stew. Were they by when the discourse was Mr. Hanson Mr Sambidge was going to drink a Bottle of Ale as he said at my Lords Bowling Green and for a while he sits down and presently Mr. Philips comes in and sits down and Mr. Dugdale came out of the Parlour into the Room where we were come said I What News said he They say there is a Justice of Peace murdered at Westminster Sir Fr. Winn. Was Philips in the Room Mr. Hanson Yes he hath forgot it but he was there L. H. Steward Did Philips hear it Mr. Hanson He might have heard it if he would L. H. Stew. Had you any discourse with Philips about this since Mr. Hanson No my Lords Sir Fr. VVinn He is positive both as to the day of the month and as to the week and that both of them were present Sir W. Jones My Lords â—e shall prove to you now That the Post which comes out of London on Saturday comes to this place on Munday morning and those which goes out of Tuesday come there on Thursday morning and the Post which goes out of London on Thursday comes to this place on Saturday morning L. Stafford He says the Post comes such and such days I own it and in the morning too Sir Will. Jones Then I go on my Lords to another point which will be a farther Confirmation of the matter For my Lords we will prove to you and that by men of Quality that the noise of the Murder was in that Countrey the Wednesday and Thursday following the Murder Your Lordships please to observe Sir Edmundbury Godfrey was killed the Twelfth of October he was found the Thursday following which was as I take it the 16. or 17. of October We will prove now that the noise and knowledge of the Murder was in the Countrey about Tixal before he was found here near London Now we only bring this as a Confirmation of this matter that it was revealed at the Alehouse and so it went about the Countrey And for this we call Edward Birch Esquire and John Turton Esquire Sir Fr. VVinn Before we examine them I would state the time Sir Edmundbury Godfrey was missing on Saturday which was the 12. of October his Murder was not discovered till Thursday We call these persons to a double purpose the one to fortifie what our Witnesses have said and the other to shew that this man was dispatched by these Mens Confederates because they knew it so soon which could not have been but that they were in the Conspiracy themselves L. Staff I desire only that he may say whether he means me among the rest Sir Fr. Winn. My Lord I will do you no wrong I speak of those at Tixal Then Mr. Birch was sworn L. H. Steward When did you hear of the death of Sir Edmundbury Godfrey Mr. Birch Mr. Birch My Lords I did not hear any thing of the death of Sir Edmundbury Godfrey till the Saturday-Post but I presume that which these Gentlemen call me for is this I did hear before Thursday I think Tuesday was the first day that there was a Justice of Peace of Middlesex killed and it was thought the Papists murdered him and this on Tuesday and Wednesday was all over the Countrey that is Tuesday after his death for I 'll tell your Lordships how I came to take notice of it for hearing such a report in the Countrey I did not so much take notice of it but being at the Kings Bench Bar at the Tryal of Green Berry and Hill for the Murder of Sir Edmundbury Godfrey I found upon the Evidence that the Body was not found till the Thursday after he was killed that made me recollect my self as to what I had heard in the Countrey and as I stood at the Bar I told several Gentlemen that I did perfectly remember before Thursday it was discoursed of in the Countrey by several Gentlemen where I lived Sir Will. Jones Call John Turton Esquire Sir Fr. Winn. Some of my Lords here I perceive desire he should be asked a more particular Question L. H. Steward I desire to ask him this You heard of it you say on Tuesday that a Justice of Peace of Middlesex was killed I desire to know who you heard it from Mr. Birch Truly my Lords I can't tell For I 'll tell your Lordships I have some certain days that I constantly appoint to be at home in when people come about business to me Among these people several came that asked me what news I had from London I told them I had received a Letter or two by the Post and I shewed them those Letters there was little or nothing in them Thereupon they asked me if I did not hear of a Justice of Middlesex that was killed No said I. How come you to hear it says one I come through Cank which is within half a mile of mine own house and as I came through there came a person from Heywood that said 't is all the news about Tixal and Heywood and that part of the Countrey And this was said to me in my own House Sir Fr. Winn. How far is Heywood from Tixal Mr. Birch About a mile Sir Fr. Winn. Now my Lords I would ask Mr. Turton to the fame business Mr. Turton was sworn L. H. Stew. Mr. Turton pray hear When did you first hear in Staffordshire of the death of a Justice of Peace of Middlesex Mr. Turton My Lords there are two Races in that Countrey at a place near Lichfield and they are about the middle of October the one that year was the 15. the other the 18. the one the Tuesday and the other the Friday I was at both of them and one of the days which I cannot be positive in there was one Mr. Whitehall a Justice of Peace in Staffordshire called me from the company and desired to speak with me by my self Said he Do you hear any news No said I. Do you hear nothing said he of a Justice of Peace that is murdered I then had not heard of Sir Edmundbury Godfreys being missing No says he don't you hear he is murdered Do you know him Yes said I how do you hear it says he 't is a report about us but I did not then believe it but the next Post-day which was Munday I did hear it it was either Tuesday or Friday one of those days Sir Will. Jones If it were either one or 'tother 't is as strange and the Evidence as strong for his Body was not found till Thursday Sir Fr. VVin. And will your Lordships please to observe that by that time the report had got the name of Godfrey too when at that same time we in London did not know what was become of him Mr. Turton He asked me if I knew Sir Edmundbury
Jesuits You will find them preparing for it by making Sermons to justifie that Doctrine which I confess this Noble Lord denies of the lawfulness of killing Kings You will find the Priests and Jesuits in their Discourses as well as Sermons urging and incouraging their Disciples and Votaries to go on with their Design of killing our King and giving that common Reason for it That He was an Heretick and it were meritorious to take him out of the way My Lords I take notice of these particulars in the general Plot because it may give great light to and add much to the Confirmation of the particular Evidence And my Lords I think I may take leave to say That the Plot in general hath been now sufficiently proved And if we consider what hath been proved at former Tryals upon which many of the Offenders and Traytors have been executed what hath been published in Print and above all Coleman's Letters written all with his own hand and for that reason impossible to be falsified we may justly conclude that there is not a man in England of any understanding but must be fully convinced of the truth of the Plot in general I shall spare to mention the Resolutions and Declarations of Two Parliaments and of both Houses in those Two Parliaments without as I remember one dissenting Voice expressing their full satisfaction of the Reality of the Plot so that I think now none remain that do pretend not to believe it but two sorts of persons the one those that were Conspirators in it and the other those that wish'd it had succeeded and desire it may so still But my Lords I will be the shorter on this part For perhaps it will be objected You have offered a fair Proof of a general Plot here are Records Votes of both Houses Papers and Evidences printed and Witnesses Viva voce to prove it but what is all this to my Lord Stafford My Lords it goes a great way to him I do not say to be a convincing Evidence but to make the particular Evidence against him highly credible Your Lordships cannot imagine That there are such a store of Lords and great Men amongst that Party though there be too many that they should have great Choice for great Offices Your Lordships hear how the other great Offices were disposed of and truly I think the Merit of this Lord amongst that party might very well intitle him to an Office as great as this of Treasurer of War or Pay-Master to the Army But what is the Evidence of the general Plot may some still say to my Lord Stafford what do you mention the raising an Army what do you mention the collecting of Money what do you mention the providing of Arms for Yes my Lords they are very useful for they give a a fair Introduction to prove against this Lord that he was to have this Office If it be proved by other Witnesses than those who swear directly against this Lord That there were Arms provided that there was an Army to be raised and the rest It proves at least that there was Occasion for such an Officer as the particular Witness proves my Lord was to be My Lords For the other matter that relates to the Consultations of the Priests and Jesuits and their Sermons and Discourses I desire your Lordships to observe that also which if you do your Lordships will easily perceive what a great influence even that matter hath upon the particular Evidence and how credible it renders the Testimony of the particular Witnesses Your Lordships will find when my Lord was at Tixal as Dugdale gives you an Accompt there was Evers the Jesuit and other Priests still at my Lords Elbow and egging him on to this business Your Lordships will find where Oats speaks of him it is at Fenwick's Chamber who was a Jesuit giving him ghostly Counsel Your Lordships will find that at Paris where Mr. Turbervill speaks of him there were Father Sherborne Father Nelson and Father Anthony Turbervill Still the Priests are about my Lord and when my Lord is among them or but newly come from them then he utters the Treason of killing the King And doubtless this trayterous purpose of his did arise from their Counsels So that though our Witnesses speak of my Lords Discourses at several times about killing the King yet they make them flow from one and the same Fountain the instigation of the Priests and Jesuits But now my Lords to come to the particular Evidence I think I may say if ever Evidence was convincing this is so We have brought three Witnesses which speak each of them that which is sufficient to prove my Lord Guilty and they speak of Overt Acts too as I shall observe anon His Lordship was pleased at the beginning of our Evidence to desire that the Witnesses might look him in the Face and for that he cited two Statutes I supposed he intended the Statutes of 1. 5. of Edw. 6. which Statutes or at least one of them do say That there shall be in Case of High Treason two Witnesses to accuse and those two Witnesses brought face to face at the time of the Tryal And my Lord hath had the benefit of those Laws he hath had two nay three Witnesses to prove him Guilty brought face to face before your Lordships and if these three or any two of them deserve to be credited my Lord in this Case is Guilty of High Treason My Lords I must beg the favour of looking upon my Paper of Notes for the truth is the Witnesses are so many and the proceeding hath held so long that it is impossible for my weak memory to retain all that was said My Lords the first Witness we began withall was Dugdale And I know your Lordships did take notice what he swore but it will be my Duty to remind your Lordships That he tells you That he had heard of a general Design of making preparations to be ready against the Kings Death and this for several years past But as to the matter of hastening the Death of the King that was but a late Counsel He tells you I think that about the latter end of August or the beginning of September 1678. Evers and other Jesuits were at Tixal That there was a Consult then about the Kings Death and that by the means of Evers who was a very great Man among them but since fled and is mentioned in the Impeachment he was admitted to that Consult and heard particularly what every man said and he does take upon him to say That at that time the matter of taking away the Kings Life was propounded and that my Lord the Prisoner at the Bar did consent to it My Lords He tells you further That upon a Sunday Morning my Lord came from Stafford to Tixal to Masse my Lord was pleased to observe that we do not prove him a Papist but we prove my Lord came to Masse and that I think is one
his right name or addition is likewise a just Cause to arrest the Judgment There is likewise another Question how far it may be valued I know not I submit it as I do all to your Lordships Though I am tried upon the Act of 25 Edw. 3 d. yet there is nothing more in that Act than what is included in the Act of the 13 th of this King And I humbly conceive my Lords by that Act and the last Proviso in it a Peer that is accused and found Guilty of the Crimes therein mentioned is to lose his Seat in Parliament those are the words and since 't is so put down in the Act it is so to be understood and that is all the punishment And I humbly demand your Lordships Judgment upon these points whether it be so or no And humbly demand your Lordships Judgments upon these Points whether it be so or no Lord High Steward Has your Lordship any more to say Lord Stafford No my Lords I submit to your Lordships and desire your Judgment in these Points Then the Lords adjourned into the Parliament Chamber and the Committee of Commons returned to their own House and the Speaker having reassumed the Chair the whole Body of the House went with their Speaker to the Bar of the House of Lords to demand Judgment of High Treason against William Viscount Stafford upon the Impeachment of the Commons of England in Parliament in the name of the Commons in Parliament and of all the Commons of England The Commons with their Speaker went back to their House Then the Lords took into consideration what Judgment was to be given upon William Viscount Stafford and it was moved that he might be beheaded After some debate the Judges were asked whether if any other Judgment than the usual Judgment for High Treason were given upon him it would attaint his Blood The Judges were of opinion that the Judgment for High Treason appointed by Law is to be drawn hanged and quartered and in the Courts and Proceedings below they can take no notice of any Judgment for High Treason but that Then Sir Creswell Levinz the Kings Attorney-General desired to be heard on his Majesties behalf which the House gave leave for him to be who said he knew no other Judgment by Law for High Treason but Drawing Hanging and Quartering if any other Judgment were given it would be prejudicial to His Majesty and be a Question in the inferiour Courts as to his Attainder of High Treason Whereupon their Lordships ordered That the Lord High Steward do pronounce the ordinary Judgment of Death upon the Lord Viscount Stafford as the Law hath appointed in Cases of High Treason And a Message was sent to the House of Commons from their Lordships by Sir Timothy Baldwyn and Sir Samuel Clark Mr. Speaker We are commanded by the Lords to acquaint this House That their Lordships are going presently into Westminster-Hall to give Judgment against William Viscount Stafford Mr. Speaker left the Chair The Committee of Commons appointed for the Management of the Evidence against the Prisoner with the rest of the Commons went into Westminster-Hall to the Court there erected to be present when the Lords gave Judgment of High Treason against him upon the Impeachment of the Commons of England After a short time their Lordships were adjourned into Westminster-Hall coming in their former Order into the Court there erected where being seated and the Lord High Steward being on the Wool-sack attended by Garter principal King of Arms the Usher of the Black Rod Eight of the Serjeants at Arms kneeling with their Maces the Ninth Macer making proclamation for Silence which being done the Lord High Steward gave Judgment upon the Prisoner as followeth Lord High Steward My Lord Stafford THat which your Lordship hath said in Arrest of Judgment hath been found by my Lords upon due Consideration had of it to be of no moment at all It is no Essential part of any Trial That the Prisoner should hold up his Hand at the Bar there is no Record ever made of it when it is done the only use of it is to shew the Court who the Prisoner is when that is apparent the Court does often proceed against him though he refuse to hold up his Hand at the Bar therefore the omission of that Ceremony in this Case is no legal Exception as all the Judges have declared And as to the Proviso's in the Statute of the 13th year of this King their Lordships do find that they are in no sort applicable to this Case forasmuch as the Proceedings against your Lordship are not grounded upon that Statute but upon the Statute of the 25. E. 3. And yet if the Proceedings had been upon the latter Statute the Proviso's therein could have done your Lordship no service at all My part therefore which remains is a very sad one for I never yet gave Sentence of Death upon any man and am extremely sorry that I must begin with your Lordship Who would have thought that a person of your Quality of so Noble an Extraction of so considerable Estate and Fortune so eminent a Sufferer in the late ill Times so interested in the Preservation of the Government so much obliged to the Moderation of it and so personally obliged to the King and his Royal Father for their particular Favours to you should ever have entred into so Infernal a Conspiracy as to contrive the Murder of the King the Ruin of the State the Subversion of Religion and as much as in you lâ—y the Destruction of all the Souls and Bodies in three Christian Nations And yet the Impeachment of the House of Commons amounts to no less a Charge and of this Charge their Lordships have found you Guilty That there hath been a General and Desperate Conspiracy of the Papists and that the Death of the King hath been all along one chief part of the Conspirators Design is now apparent beyond all possibility of doubting What was the meaning of all those Treatises which were publisht about two years since against the Oath of Allegiance in a time when no man dreamt of such a Controversie What was the meaning of Father Conyers's Sermon upon the same Subject but only because there was a Demonstration of Zeal as they call it intended against the Person of the King which the scruples arising from that Oath did somewhat hinder To what purpose were all the Correspondencies with Foreign Nations The Collections of Money among the Fathers abroad and at home What was the meaning of their Governing themselves here by such Advices as came frequently from Paris and Saint Omers And how shall we expound that Letter which came from Ireland to assure the Fathers here that all things were in a readiness there too as soon as the Blow should be given Does any man now begin to doubt how London came to be Burnt Or by what ways and means poor Justice Godfrey fell And is it not
Lordship ask him any Questions my Lord Stafford Lord Stafford My Lord I never saw the man before in my life I will ask him one Question since he hath been pleased to swear against me Mr. Turbervile My Lords I had no reason but the truth to do it for I never received any injury from his Lordship in my life L. Stafford It seems I had ill luck to choose this man for an attempt to Kill the King who was such a Coward he ran away from his Colours and was to have been shot to death Mr. Turbervile Ask the Duke of Monmouth what Character he received of me L. Stafford He says in the year 75. he went from London to Doway and staid some time there and then came back to England I beseech your Lordships to ask him what time he went back to Paris L. H. Steward What time was it that you went back to Paris Mr. Turbervile Truly my Lord I cannot be punctual to a fortnight but I believe it was the beginning of June L. H. Steward What year Mr. Turbervile 75. Lord Stafford My Lords I would know who recommended him to me to go over with me into England Lord High Steward Who recommended you to my Lord Stafford to go into England Mr. Turbervile My Lords it was Father Sherborn who was then Prior of the Benedictine Monks in Paris and Father Nelson Sub-prior of those Monks and my Brother who is a Monk in the same Convent Lord High Steward He says that there were three persons that recommended him to your Lordship Lord Stafford I never saw them in my life Mr. Turbervile Your Lordship that says I was a Coward and run away from my Colours will say any thing Lord Stafford I not only say it but will prove it by two Witnesses Mr. Turbervile Do it if you can Lord Stafford He says in the beginning of June 75. he went into France I desire to know of him when it was he spoke to me Mr. Turbervile In November 75. Lord Stafford He says in November Mr. Turbervile Yes my Lord about the beginning of November L. Stafford I beseech your Lordship where was it he spoke to me L. H. Steward Turbervile where was it you spoke to my Lord Mr. Turbervile In Paris L. Stafford Whereabouts in Paris Mr. Turbervile It was the Corner-House of the Street which Street faces Luxenburgh House the Prince of Conde lodges on the right hand in that Street I take it to be so and you lodged at the Corner-House I think the Name of the Street was La Rue de Beaufort L. Stafford Which if the Prince of Conde did I will say no more Mr. Turbervile I cannot be upon my Oath in such cases but I think he does I take it so L. Stafford He says he was with me a fortnight what does he mean Mr. Turbervile I came to my Lord several times in the space of a fortnight L. Stafford I desire to know who brought him to me Mr. Turbervile Father Sherborn Father Nelson and my Brother Father Anthony Turbervile and sometimes I came alone L. H. Steward He says those three Fathers recommended him to your Lordship and he came himself several times Mr. Turbervile Yes my Lords it is true L. Stafford I beseech your Lordships did he come directly to my Chamber or where Mr. Turbervile Sometimes to my Lords Chamber and at other times I met him in a lower Room L. Stafford It concerns me much my Lords and though they be foolish Questions yet I hope your Lordships will pardon me if I ask them Where was this Discourse about killing the King L. H. Steward Was this Discourse in the Chamber or in the lower Room Mr. Turbervile In the lower Room L. Stafford He says I think that he hath been in my Chamber L. High Stew. Have you been in my Lords Chamber as well as in the lower Room Mr. Turbervile Yes my Lords I have L. Stafford What kind of Room is it Mr. Turbervile I cannot remember that L. Stafford No I dare sware you can't Mr. Turbervile I can't tell the particulars what Stools and Chairs were in the Room L. Stafford My Lords I have no more to say to him at present L. H. Stew. Mr. Turbervile How long have you been in England Mr. Turbervile I cannot answer punctually I have been in England near four years L. H. Stew. How came it to pass that you never discovered this sooner Mr. Turbervile I had no Faith to believe that I should be safe if I did it but my brains might be knocked out and that kept me off from doing that service which I might be better able to do if I did deser it L. H. Stew. How came you to discover it now Mr. Turbervile The Kings Proclamation and some Friends that have perswaded me I may do it with safety who will give your Lordships an account of it L. Stafford I desire he may attend when I make my defence Mr. Turbervile Yes I shall But I am sorry that his Lordship hath so ill a memory as to what passed between us I shall be very unwilling to do his Lordship or any body else any injury but I must tell the truth Sir Will. Jones My Lords We shall call no more Witnesses unless my Lord the Prisoner give us an occasion If he shall make any Objections to any of our Witnesses I hope we shall have liberty to call Witnesses to support them but we give over at present and expect his Lordships Answer L. Stafford May it please your Lorships I beseech your Lordships before I say any thing that I may know if they have any more Witnesses to examine Lord High Steward They say they will call no more Evidence unless your Lordships Answer do give them occasion to fortify their Witnesses you except against Lord Stafford My Lords it is now about two years that I have had the misfortune to be accused of this detestable Treason I have been several times in those two years a close prisoner that my Wife and Children were denyed to come neer me and hardly a Servant permitted to ask how I did but at the door of my Prison My Lords This was a great and an heavy affliction to me and my Lords it was so great an affliction to me that truly I did not know how to bear it 'T is true I had that comfort that I did hope I should soon come to my Tryal and before your Lordships make my innocency appear In order to which I did all I could having heard this Hall was provided for it and I did expect in a very few days to clear my self before your Lordships and all the World When I had settled my mind and did not foresee any greater affliction that could befall me I had on the sudden by some of my friends a sad Message sent me That the House of Commons had impeached me of High Treason My Lords I looked upon the House of Commons then as I do now as the great
all these things shall be saved to you pray let us hear your Evidence L. Staff Since your Lordships hath granted me that be pleased to give me leave to go to my Evidence and I begin with Stephen Dugdale L. H. Stew. Set up Dugdale L. Staff Will your Lordships please I may have Pen Ink and Paper L. H. Stew. By all means my Lord. Which was given him L. Staff May it please your Lordships Stephen Dugdale said if I understand him aright and I ask him again that he knew something of the Plot 15 or 16 years ago L. H. Stew. What say you Mr. Dugdale you hear the Question Did not you say you knew of the Plot 15 or 16 years ago Mr. Dugdale I did say it and did explain my meaning in it I did say there was among us such a preparation to be made against the King died of Arms and Money that neither should be wanting L. Staff I beseech your Lordship to ask what proportion of Arms was to be provided L. H. Stew. What proportion of Arms was to be provided Mr. Dugdale I never heard it nominated how many absolutely I have heard of some Numbers I heard of late of 30000. that were to be raised beyond Sea what the whole number in England was I have forgot but I think I have heard Mr. Gavan and some of the Priests say That if there was occasion they should have at least 200000 to assist them that was of Men and I suppose they had Arms as well as Men. L. Stafford My Lords If this were true which he says Mr. Gavan said that they were 200000 I desire to know what Men he ment what Religion they must be of Lord High Stew. What Religion were they of that were to come in and help Mr. Dugdale He did not name them at that time but I understood them and so I apprehend the Company would that they were Roman Catholicks L. Stafford 'T is a strange thing that there should be 200000 Catholicks raised when there are not 20â—00 in England that can bear Arms. L. H. Stew. Good my Lord They might come from beyond sea and so they might be so many Roman Catholicks though there were not so many in England Mr. Serj. Maynard And he says not they were Roman Catholicks but he heard so Mr. Treby There might be so many Roman Catholicks and such as should be with them L. Staff Did he hear 15 or 16 Years that I was one to be among them L. H. Stew. Answer that Question Did you hear then that my Lord Stafford was to be one among them Mr. Dugdale I cannot remember it that I did my Lord. L. Stafford Then my Lords I make this use of it He tells you of a Plot 16 Years ago that 200000 Men in Arms were ready against the King's death Mr. Dugdale I did not say so my Lords I desire I may be understood aright L. Stafford You say you heard so Mr. Dugdale I speak as to the number of Men what I heard of late at the Consults and Meetings within these two Years L. Stafford But I speak of 16 Years ago what Number of Men was there to be raised Mr. Dugdale My Lords it was a general word that was amongst us That we must be provided against that time against the Death of the King but no Number at all L. Stafford This my Lords under favour I conceive does not concern me He tells you there was such a thing it might be so or it might not be so I am not concerned in it then 't is out of Doors as to what concerns me I conceive otherwise if the Gentlemen conceive otherwise they will say so Then my Lords the next thing is How long ago it is since I first spake to him about this Plot and I beseech your Lordships he may mention time and place L. H. Stew. You hear the Question Mr. Dugdale Mr. Dugdale The first time to my best remembrance L. Stafford I beseech you my Lords let us have no remembrance but let him swear positively L. H. Stew. There is no mortal Man can swear otherwise than according to his Remembrance L. Stafford When a mans Life and Honour and all he hath is at stake and indeed in Consequence every man in England is concerned if they swear not positively but still say as I remember who can make a Defence L. H. Stew. Mr. Dugdale Go on and say as near as you can and be as particular as you can upon your Oath Mr. Dugdale That which I can positively affirm is It was about August or September 78. L. Stafford He said yesterday it was in the latter end of August or the beginning of September which are two Months I beseech you what does he mean by the latter end of August how long before the end of August L. H. Stew. How long was it before the last day in August Mr. Dugdale My Lords I will not be positive but it was either in one Month or the other I did not keep a Diary or else I would give your Lordships satisfaction L. Stafford I beseech your Lordships he may positively say whether in August or nor in August or whether in September or not in September Mr. Dugdale I dare not venture to swear that I dare not do it L. Staff Then saving my Exceptions to the incertainty of that afterwards I would ask him what day was it in September that I spoke to him Mr. Dugd. I remember one was either the 20. or 21. of September 78. L. Staff My Lords he says the 20. or 21. does he say that was the first time he spoke with me Sir Jolm Trevor No no. L. Staff I beseech you my Lords they may not answer the Questions but the Witnesses they cry No no. L. H. Stew. My Lord you shall certainly have an answer to all the Questions you will ask L. Staff But when I ask they answer for them I would know whether that is the Course or no. L. H. Stew. Do not disquite your self for any thing that is said about you you shall have a fair hearing L. Stafford But my Lords I cannot but be disquieted when I hear these learned Gentlemen make Answers to my Questions for the Witnesses L. H. Stew. Mr. Dugdale Was the 20. or the 21. of September you speak of the first time you spoke to my Lord Stafford Mr. Dugdale No my Lords it was not L. Stafford Pray my Lords what day was it then I spoke first to him L. H. Stew. What was the day you first spoke to my Lord Mr. Dugdale Truly my Lords I cannot remember so well as to tell you L. H. Stew. Do you remember when my Lord came to Tixal Mr. Dugdale I remember one Sunday in particular but I cannot tell what day of the month it was L. H. Stew. Do you remember my Lord Stafford at Tixal in company of my Lord Aston and Father Evers Mr. Dugdale Yes I do L. H. Stew. Do you remember that any
Lord. High Steward Is it your Lordships pleasure that we do Adjourn Lords Ay Ay. L. H. Steward Then this House is Adjourned into the Parliament Chamber Then the Lords returned in their former Order to their House and the Commons went back to their House Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair and a Message from the Lords was sent by Sir Timothy Baldwin and Sir Samuel Clark Mr. Speaker The Lords have sent us to acquaint this House that they have Ordered the Prisoner William Viscount Stafford to be brought again to his Tryal at the Bar in Westminster-Hall to morrow morning at Ten of the Clock The Fourth Day Friday December 3. 1680. ABout the Hour of Ten in the Morning the Lords Adjourned into Westminster-Hall and returned in their former Order into the Court there erected and Mr. Speaker having left the Chair the Commons were seated as before mentioned The Court being sat Proclamation for Silence was made and the Lieutenant of the Tower commanded to bring his Prisoner to the Bar which being done the Lord High Steward spake to the Prisoner as followeth L. H. Steward My Lord Stafford your Lordships Defence took up yesterday All the day was employed in hearing your Lordships Witnesses to impeach the Credit of the Testimony that hath been given against you Your Lordship hath excepted against Dugdale because you were not at Tixall as he says you were neither the latter end of August nor the beginning of September till the Twelfth and when you were there you never sent for him to your Chamber but your Man upon his own desire brought him and when he came there the business was to desire you to get leave that he might go to the Race and there was no opportunity of private Discourse because your Men were in the Room all the while That Dugdale hath often said he knew nothing of the Plot that he swore falsly when he said he told of the Letter about the death of Sir Edmunbury Godfrey before it was known he was killed and when he said that Hobson told him presently after the Almoner went over which was three years before Hobson came to my Lord Aston's Service Your Lordship hath likewise objected that he hath corrupted persons to swear falsly against you and others as Robinson the Upholsterer against your Lordship Morrall the Barber against Sir James Symons and Holt the Blacksmith to swear that one Moor carried away Evers Your Lordship hath endeavoured to discredit Oats by his saying he knew nothing of any other persons that were concerned in the Plot and after accusing the Queen Your Lordship hath Impeached the Credit of Turbervill by proving that you came home by Diep and not by Calice as he says you did That you had never the Gout while you were in France nor as your Page says for these seven years That my Lord Castlemain was not at my Lord Powis's in the year 73. and there you left off This I take is the Sum of what your Lordship says if I do you any wrong your Lordship will put me in mind of it L. Stafford I thank your Lordship you have done it with great Equity and Truth L. H. Stew. Then go on L. Stafford The next Witness that I call is one John Porter Who stood up L. H. Stew. What is your Name Witness John Porter L. H. Stew. What Profession are you of Porter A Butler L. H. Stew. To whom Porter To my Lord Powis L. Stafford My Lords I desire your Lordships would ask him what Mr. Turbervill said about the Plot. L. H. Stew. I will ask him all the Questions your Lordship desires I should ask him Mr. Foley We desire to know what Religion he is of L. Stafford I desire your Lordships would ask him that Question and not the Managers L. H. Stew. They will tell me their Questions my Lord and I will ask them L. Staff They ask him my Lords and not you L. H. Stew. What Religion are you of Porter A Church of England man my Lords Mr. Serj. Maynard The Popish Church of England I believe L. Stafford Pray my Lords let not this be when my Witness says he is of the Church of England they cry he is of the Popish Church of England Mr. Serj. Maynard Pray good my Lord we are silent when you ask him proper Questions and make no Remarks we do not speak it to the Court we may say what we will among our selves I hope L. Staff I may ask impertinent Questions because I do not understand so well as these Gentlemen But I pray they may not deal thus with me L. H. Stew. My Lord you shall ask what Questions you please L. Stafford Pray ask him what Mr. Turbervill said to him about his knowledge of the Plot. L. H. Stew. What did Turbervill say to you about his knowing of the Plot Porter About a year since when I served my Lord Powis as Butler there he was used to come and see me it was not at my Lords House but he sent for me to a Victualling-House L. H. Stew. That was the last year Porter Yes L. H. Stew. What time of the Year Porter It was about Twelve Months ago I cannot say positively the time L. H. Stew. Was it Winter or Summer Porter He hath been both I can't be positive which I believe he hath been there 40 times L. H. Stew. In the year 80 or 79 Porter In the year 79. L. H. Stew. What did he say Porter He came there and asked me how my Lord Powis did and said he was extremely troubled that he was in that Affliction for he did verily believe that neither he nor the rest of the Lords were in the Plot and the Witnesses that swore against him he believed were perjured and could not believe any thing of it L. H. Stew. Have you any more to say Porter Yes my Lords I told him if there were such a thing as a Plot he having been beyond Sea must certainly know of it he told me as he hoped for Salvation he knew nothing of it neither directly nor indirectly against the Kings Sacred Person nor the Subversion of the Government And he further said Although I am a little low at present and my Friends will not look upon me yet I hope God Almighty will never leave me so much as to let me swear against innocent Persons and forswear and damn my self L. H. Stew. Where was this said to you Porter At the Ship Alehouse in Lincolns Inn Fields one time another time at the Kings Head Tavern in the Strand and another time at the Golden Ball in the Strand L. H. Stew. Was any body by besides your self Porter Not at that time but there is a Gentleman in Court that can testifie that he said such things at other times L. H. Stew. What say you to this Turbervill Mr. Turbervill I say 't is all false But if your Lordships please I 'll tell you what I said once I did conceive my Lord Powis was
with my Lord. L. Stafford Did he hear us discourse or any word we said Mr. Ansell No I did not Sir Will. Jones My Lords if you please before Ansell go away we would ask him a Question to another point and that is For what reason Dugdale was secured whether he went away for Debt or no L. H. Stew. Do you know wherefore Dugdale was secured or why he went from my Lord Astons Mr. Ansell I can't tell why he went away whether for fear of the Plot or no I can't tell Sir VV. Jones What discourse was between you and Dugdale about it Mr. Ansell Where There was a discourse at Stafford when he was there Sir VV. Jones But before he went away Mr. Ansell I came to my Lord Aston's one day and told Mr. Dugdale I heard say he was concerned in the Plot for I told him I was amongst some people and they say you are concerned in the Plot. And this was about a fortnight after the News was hot in our Country L. H. Stew. What said he Mr. Ansell He laughed at it and said God blast him if he knew any thing of it L. Stafford So he denied it then Sir VV. Jones Pray Sir at that time did he say he knew any thing about my Lord Aston and why my Lord Aston did use him ill Then my Lord Stafford objected Mr. Dugdale was too near the VVitness and desired he might go down and it was ordered accordingly Sir Fr. VVin. My Lords we would ask this man what does he know of Dugdale's concealing himself after he had heard of the discourse about the Plot. Mr. Ansell I know not that my Lords he was fearful of coming in company what his discourse was I do not know Sir VV. Jones My Lords now if it please your Lordships we will go to another particular Yor Lordships will please to remember that yesterday there were two Witnesses called by my Lord Stafford that is Sambidge and Philips Sambidge was the old Gentleman that was deaf and a little passionate too because he was once summoned to Litchfield Court Mr. Philips was the Minister of Tixal And both these did testifie That whereas Mr. Dugdale had sworn at a former Tryal that he did give notice before them of the death of Sir Edmunbury Godfrey upon Monday which as I take it was the 14. of October there was no such notice given in their presence Mr. Dugdale did affirm they were by and that he gave notice before them others This was made use of by my Lord to invalidate the Testimony of Mr. Dugdale that he should go and affirm at a former Tryal that he did give notice of the death of Sir Edmundbury Godfrey within two days after he was killed before any one knew of it and Dugdale must needs know it from the Jesuits and both of these Gentlemen being now in Court do deny that they heard of it at that time My Lords we shall prove to you here that he did give notice of it at that time and that they were both present For Mr. Sambidge it is not so strange he should not observe it he was very deaf and he could hardly hear yesterday and as he was deaf so he was very passionate As for Mr. Philips I cannot say that as to him but perhaps he cannot at that distance of time remember but we will prove by undeniable Witnesses that notice was given that Munday and that these persons were by when it was given Sir Fran. Winn. This Witness we use to another purpose besides this but we will ask him only to this now L. Stafford I desire the Witnesses may stand by themselves L. H. Stew. Let them take care that there be but one Witness at a time and that no body approach them while they are giving their Testimony Sir Will. Jones We did not make the like desire as to my Lords Witnesses L. Stafford In troth you might with all my heart if you would Sir Will. Jones It may be so but we did not fear them so much Swear William Goldsmith which was done Sir Will. Jones I would begin with James Ansell who appeared and stood up again Sir Fr. Winn. If your Lordships please we would ask him what he knows of a discourse about the Justice of Peace's death to tell the time and what it was that was said We only ask general Questions L. H. Stew. What discourse did you hear of the murder of a Justice of Peace and when Mr. Ansell My Lords I heard it at Tixal L. H. Stew. When did you hear it first Mr. Ansell The 14. of October L. H. Steward Who did you hear it from Mr. Ansell From Mr. Dugdale L. H. Stew. The Letter was dated the 12. Where did you hear of it Mr. Ansell It was at one Elds House an Alehouse in Tixal L. H. Steward Where Mr. Ansell At an Alehouse hard by my Lords L. H. Stew. Who was by Mr. Ansell When that was spoken there was I and VVilliam Hanson and Mr. Sambidge and Mr. Philips L. H. Stew. Did Dugdale speak with them at that time Mr. Ansell Yes he was with them at that time but he spoke with me at the Parlor for he sent for me into the Parlor L. H. Stew. Then at the same time he spake it to you and they were in the House Mr. Ansell Yes he came from them to me into the Parlor and went to them again Sir Will. Jones My Lords I hear him speak to the day of the Month if you please to ask him if he can tell what day of the Week it was Mr. Ansell It was on a Munday L. H. Stew. That is right the Letter was dated on Saturday the 12. of October Sir Fr. Winn. I would ask him whether afterwards he came into the Room where Mr. Philips the Parson was Mr. Ansell Yes Sir Fr. Winn. Was there any discouse after you came in about the Death of â— Justice of Peace Mr. Ansell I cannot tell that L. H. Stew. Will you please to ask him any thing my Lord L. Staff Indeed my Lords he says nothing concerning me therefore I say only this I desire to know if he can tell what time of day it was Mr. Ansell It was the Forenoon Sir W. Jones Then call Will. Hanson again who appeared Sir Fr. Winn. We call him to the same Question Do you declare to my Lords what you know of Mr. Dugdale's acquainting you with the Death of a Justice of Peace and when it was Mr. Hanson I heard Mr. Dugdale say at Old Elds house at Tixal There was a Justice of Peace murdered that lived at Westminster L. H. Steward When did he tell you so Mr. Hanson The day that I went to run the Race the 14. of October Sir Fr. Winn. Can you remember what day of the week it was Mr. Hanson It was Munday L. H. Steward Was it the Forenoon or Afternoon Mr. Hanson The Forenoon L. H. Stew. What Company was in the house when he
September when he says he was in my Chamber and I sent the Page to call him that it is false it was only he desired he might come to me to get leave that he might go to the Race my Lord Aston being angry with him for it This I conceive is proved sufficiently by two Witnesses my Man and my Boy and this I think I have proved as positively as can be done My Lords 't is true 't is objected against me That I had said Dugdale was never seen alone with me in my life 't is true and 't is true Ansell swears he brought a Footman to me but he swears it was in the Morning when it was at Supper and does not say that he was alone with me My Lords Dugdale swore that he told Mr. Philips and Mr. Sambidge of the death of Sir Edmundbury Godfrey on the Munday some swore he said it was on the Tuesday but they deny that ever he told it them and so he is forsworn in that And my Lords whether he be a man of any great Credit I think I have proved enough to your Lordships 'T is proved by two Witnesses Holt and Morrall that he offered them money to swear as likewise he did to another one Robinson whom I do believe by the Information that was given of him to be a wicked ill man and not to be credited but being so my Lords he was the fitter for Dugdale's turn And yet he had so much Conscience though he was a poor and needy fellow he would not swear a mans Life away for money the other two are without exception the one they say is an idle fellow and t'other a man but of an indifferent Reputation how far that will move with your Lordships I submit it to you I suppose 't is also clear by my Witnesses that Dugdale is a man of no Reputation having forsworn himself in several particulars and I submit the Credit of all he says to your Lordships upon that The next Witness my Lords is Mr. Oats whether he be a Doctor or no I know it not he would not own it here he my Lords swears that he saw a Commission delivered to me to be Pay-master of an Army to be raised God knows when I never heard when or where I suppose it was in the Clouds for I never knew where else Mr. Oats all along before swore only that he believed I was in the Plot now he swears I was in it at Mr. Fenwicks Chamber a man I never saw in my life nor heard of till this discovery And that he saw Letters subscribed by my Name but that my Lords I conceive is no Evidence at all for he never saw me write nor does know my Hand nor does he pretend to know me then and when he had told your Lordships he had a Letter of mine he pretended to look for it and then said he had lost it that is never had it But besides my Lords his Evidence now does not agree with his former for I do appeal to your Lordships that were in the House then that he swore the first time He only saw my Name to Letters afterwards he swore that is some days after he had ended all his Evidence and knew no more than he had put down then afterwards he remembers what he knew not before and swears a Commission he saw delivered to me So his Memory increases as he hath time to invent and perhaps by another time it might be much more But my Lords I think that one particular his swearing before your Lordships as 't is entred in your Journal that he had no more to say against any body and afterwards naming the Queen and now me to have a Commission I conceive is perfect Perjury My Lords Mr. Oats told your Lordships That he had never been a Papist in his Heart but ever feigned it truly my Lords I cannot possibly give over that point That a man that feigns himself to be a Papist or any thing that in the opinion of Protestants is so wicked a thing as that is fit to be believed if he shall not heartily repent himself and own it to God and Man as an ill thing to dissemble so But yesterday he with a smiling Countenance and as it were in derision owns that which must be a very great offence to God Almighty to pretend to be of an Idolatrous Church I appeal to your Lordships whether he be a fit Witness I conceive he cannot be thought a Christian nor to believe in God I know many wicked and infamous persons have done many wicked things and yet have been Witnesses but never did any wicked man own a wicked thing that he might have concealed with boasting of it that ever was credited in any thing for if he had said I do acknowledge I did dissemble with God and my own Conscience but I ask God forgiveness it was for a good End and a good Intention it had been something though that could not have atoned for so ill a thing but shewing no Repentance but rather an impudent affronting of God Almighty I think he is not a fit Witness I appeal to your Lordships and the whole Christian World if he be I cannot believe your Lordships will condemn me for an Opinion which I will go to my death with and it stands upon me so to do The last Witness my Lords is Turbervill and he says in the year 75 he often discoursed alone with me for a fortnight together at Paris My Servants he owns he never saw them and how he could come for a fortnight together and not see my Servants I refer it to your Lordships consideration whether it be possible For I 'le tell your Lordships when I had been a few days at Paris my Landlord came one day to me and said You do not do well to suffer any body to come to you without your Man be by for there came yesterday a Frenchman to speak with you and I do not know him and he went strait up to your Chamber without any body with him 't is a dangerous thing said he for I know that Frenchmen and people have come up and been alone with persons and put a Pistol to them and made them deliver their mony for fear of their Lives therefore pray said he do it no more From that time which was a few days after I came to Paris the latter end of October or the beginning of November no Christian Soul was permitted to come to me without my Servants how then could he come to me for a fortnight together and none of my Servants see him My Lords this Gentleman very civilly the next day after he had made an Affidavit against me would needs mend it and Sir William Poultney did acknowledge that he made Affidavit one day that he came to my Lord Powis's in the year 73 and the next day amended it to 72. Now I humbly conceive my Lords a man that swears one thing to day