God God for his mercies sake once turne him agayne For now he doth nothing but hatch Cockatrices egges and weaueth the Spyders webbe Harding ¶ You seme to maruail how I became so perfite a Catholike in so shorte a time As you say I preached the contrary many yeares wherin you say vntruly For neither preached I ful two yeares and that not many Sermons neither was I priest before Quene Maries time So you pretend it to be an impossible thing that in seuen daies for of that tyme you speake more then once I should reade ouer all the Scriptures Counsels and Doctours as though a man by Gods speciall grace could not be turned from errour to truth whose hart was not stubbornlye set to mainteine a part nor yet drowned in manye errours vnlesse he first read ouer all bookes of Diuinitye What meane you M. Iewell Wil you appoint God a tracte of tyme to work in when he toucheth the hart of maÌ„ S. Ambrose could haue taught you to iudge otherwise wher he saith Nescit tarda moliminae sancti spiritus gratia Dering Now Maister Harding in a long discourse commeth again to his former matter and as the Poet saith sopitos suscitat ignes stirreth a broade againe the fire that was well raked vp and telleth vs a new cause of his tourning and that was Gods secrete inspiration and therto alleadgeth the sayings of Ambrose and Leo and the exampels of Elizeus Paul and Mathew As touching the grace of the holy Ghost I must needes confesse it néedeth no protracte of time It may make in one moment of a plough man a Prophet of a persecutour an Apostle of a Publicane a Disciple But shall Maister Harding therefore think that by the same spirit he was made of a preacher an apostata And for further proofe of this he telleth vs when he was made priest as though he had taken the charecter of the beast and fallen downe and worshipped hir by the mocion of the holy Ghost Better had Maister Harding stoode to his other causes that longer yeares gaue him more vnderstanding or the change of the Prince chaunged him or else he was conuerted by prayer then to make the holye ghost author of his euill doing But O miserable state of that man that shoulde be plunged thus in errours and yet séeth not his sinnes Such confidence had the Iewes in al their fornications that being stirred to repentaunce would deny their euill doing and saye wherein shall we returne Harding ¶ And why doe you charge me with the suddaine change of seuen dayes Was it not one whole yeare after king Edwardes death before I came in pulpit And did I not of myne owne accorde without all compulsion or request of others simply and fully acknowledge and confesse my former ouersight and errour Was not all the vniuersity of Oxforde witnesse hereof O Maister Iewel I doubt not but by that my voluntary and humble confession I haue put the Diuell to silence thorow the same He shall not haue power to obiect vnto me myne errour before Christ our Iudge in that dreadfull daye Dering Now least for all this trifling we shoulde accuse M. Harding of rashnes in fine he bringeth a whoole yeares deliberation But Lord what manner of defence is this After so long reasoning to proue nothing Was all this defence of a sodaine chaunge to excuse the thing hee neuer committed This was the first cloke for his turning If it shadowed it well why did he cast it of If it did not why doth he take it now againe Cast it away Maister Harding if you be happy your tourning and all and yet againe turne once for the better you haue not put the Diuell to silence with this turning our Lord deliuer you from him It is he that walketh through drye places and when he can finde no rest returneth thither againe from whence he was driuen out and as thoughe he had found you sweapt and garnished so after made his ingredience in your seuen folde wickednes You say Maister Iuels malice doeth séeme to passe the malice of the deuill But it is ynough for the Disciple to be as his Maister is and the seruaunt as the Lord. If they haue called the Maister of the house Beelzebub how much more them of his houshold The authority here brought of S. Cyprian is to little purpose But had you better considered that Epistle you would with better aduice haue spared the reuerence of that good Bishop You know what his name doth signifie And S. Cyprian saith this alwayes is the worke of the deuill that he should be lye the seruauntes of God and with false opinions gloriosum nomen infamet slaunder their glorious name that they which are very shining in the testimony of their owne conscience might be defiled with other mens reporte Wel God graunt vnto you according to Maister Iuells prayer Harding ¶ But what meant you Maister Iewel of all men thus vncourteously and with all verye falsly to deale with me Dering After all these deuices in defence of his owne dooing he fashioneth a new inuention against his aduersary and in long examination of his whole lyfe he hath espied in him once a little going back and of that would faine make a couer to hyde his owne apostasy And that this péece of the Epistle may be all lyke in it selfe he maketh the first entry with an open lye and saith Maister Iuell hath reported falsly of hys turning But the world is witnesse both of Maister Iuels saying and Maister Hardings doing But he goeth forwarde and asketh Maister Iuell this question Are not you one M. Iohn Iuell that once subscribed to certaine articles c. Why bringeth M. Harding this This is confessed in his aunswere to Doctour Cole Therfore I graunt Maister Harding it is euen he that when the anointed of the Lorde was taken in your â—ettes vnder whose shadow he shoulde haue ben preserued among the heathen he was scattered among the other shéepe till God turned his hand vpon his little ones to cary forth his name among the Gentiles But marke good Christian reader what this man hath espied in this Bishops lyfe He did once subscribe in S. Maries church in Oxford did not all Christes Disciples once forsake him in Ierusalem Did not Peter dissemble at Antioch Did not Paule shaue his head at Cenchrea did he not circumcise Timothy at Lystra Haue not all the serauntes of God Patriarches Prophets Apostles and martyrs done as much Is this the greatest fault you can laye to that good bishop that for feare of your tyranny he did ones write Iohn Iuel God be praysed that hath so directed y â— course of his seruant and God send vs all his spirit that do professe his Gospel that our liues may so answer our profession Now touching those disputations at Oxforde where Maister Harding saith the vttermost was heard that could be brought on our syde that is one among his other
naming the holy captain Iosue for the Prophet Ose. fo 98. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 fo 100. expresse for represse fol â—od alone hereof for in earth aboue hir fol. 102. but you haue for but your churche hath fol. 104. cansabo for cantabo fol. 111. Antonius for Antoninus And after thou shalt finde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 destruction for distinction could easily for could not easily These and suche other faultes escaped in the printing of my boke as well in the wordes as in the pointing how many so euer thou shalt ascribe vnto me so many iniuries thou shalt doe me He is a simple scholer that can not write truely and the pointing is not so difficult that it requireth any great learning for other things what so euer shalbe founde blame worthy the fault is mine owne and wherein souer the enimy shall finde his fault I doubt not but I shall by Gods grace be able to defend it The force of truth is such that though the patrone be simple yet she will defend hir self especially suche truth as hath made hir selfe so manifest The truthe of God that standeth vpon a hill and may be seene of all men the truth that shineth as a light in a darke place and as the day starre arising in our heartes that truthe whose glorious beautie hath darkned the painted and deceiueable lokes of the purple whore of Babilon It is now no mastery sith we know God to know him that lifteth vp himself against God sith we know Christ to know Antichrist sith we know Peter to know Peters forged successoure And for as much as to this issue al our controuersie is come that what right or authoritie so euer the Pope chalengeth he maketh his whole claime from Peter and the papists themselues will defende him no further but so farre as he succedeth Peter I will speake a little of Peters bishoprike of Rome so farre as the scriptures shall be my warrant Consider thou of it good christian Reader that shall be said and if thou see that all the glorying of Peters being at Rome is but a fasing out of an impudent he then iudge what is their other religion First here I must forwarne thee that as a lie can not long agree with it selfe so in all this matter thou shalt hardly finde in all pointes two popishe chronicles agree togither So that what so euer I wryte as touching the exacte computation of yeres there must needes be many against me Therefore in that I will not striue only I will wryte that which is certaine and shall haue as I said either some warrant of scripture or shall be agreed on by the consent of all ages Our sauioure Christ was crucified for our sinnes the .18 yeare of Tyberius as by all histories it is manifest Peter is said to be put to deathe in Rome the last yeare of Nero so Peter liued after Christ vnder Tyberius .v. yeare Caligula 4. yeare Claudius .13 yeare Nero. 13 yeare In all .36 yeares and odde monthes according to the raigne of the saide Emperoures in these .36 yeares and odde moneths they vvryte of Peter thus He vvas bishop â–ª 4. yeares in the East partes .7 yeares at Antioche and .25 yeares at Rome vvhere at last he died Heere this fable doeth almost bevvray it selfe suche hasty enstallings and so many translatings out of one bishopprike into an other doeth not vvell agree vvith oure sauiours vvordes that they should haue affliction in the vvorlde But let vs searche the scriptures and trie hovve these Bishopprikes vvil stande After that our Sauioure is ascended they goe into Ierusalem all the Apostles togither they choose Mathie the Apostle After fiftye dayes they receiue the holy Ghost Peter conuerteth many After certaine dayes Peter and Iohn goe vppe in to the Temple they heale the lame they are put in prisone they are forbidden to preache anye more in the name of Iesus then they returne vnto the other Apostles and tary many daies togither working many miracles amoÌ„g the people in so much that the Cities round about resorted daily to Ierusalem to haue their sick and diseased healed Then again the Apostles are put in prison and God deliuereth theÌ„ and many dayes they preach in the temple and in euery house After this came a great persecution against the Church at Ierusalem in so much that they were all dispearsed sauing the Apostles Then at the laste after many dayes Peter is sent out of Ierusalem into Samaria where he preacheth in diuers townes about Thus farre good Reader thou seest plainly Peter is no bishop nor yet in any speciall authoritie when the other Apostles sende him out to preache Then he returneth againe to Ierusalem and this is one yeare after the death of our sauioure Christ as the histories do all agree in reporting the conuersion of S. Paule which was nowe done as appeareth Act. 9. This is the yeare of our Lord .35 In the yere of our Lord .38 He dwelleth in Ierusalem Gal. 1.18 Likewise in the yere of our Lorde .46 he is imprisoned at IerusaleÌ„ Act. 12.2 Againe in the yeare of our Lord .48 he is at the councel holden in Ierusalem Act. 15.7 from that day forward he giueth his faith vnto Paule and Barnabas that he will be an Apostle not to the Romaines but to the Iewes Gal. 2.9 vvhich truely he accompliâ—hed euen vntill his death and doubtlesse neuer came at Rome Now christian reader seing the scripture lieth thus that Peters aboade in Ierusalem after the conuersion of S. Paule Anno Domini .35 is recorded .iij. seuerall times And after the last time a couenaunt made that he woulde continue among the Iewes If I shall proue vnto thee that these seuerall times are rightly numbred according to the yeare of the Lorde that is that the first time was the .38 yeare the seconde time the .46 yeare the third time the .48 yeare and then in the meane while betwene the .35 yeare and the .38 likewise the .38 and the .46 and betwene the .46 and .48 that Peter was not in Rome last of all that he was true of his promise and after the .48 yeare came not at Rome then I trust thou wilt confesse with me that Peter was neuer .25 yeares Bishop of Rome But that all poperie as it is in it selfe nothing but lies so it is grounded wholly and altogither vpon lies First it is agreed vpon by all the thing is plaine in it self Paule was conuerted the yere of our Lord .35 TheÌ„ Paule himself writeth thus After three yeres I came to IerusaleÌ„ to see Peter and abode in his house .xv. dayes so this was the .38 yere of our Lord when Peter is first in IerusaleÌ„ When he was after imprisoned at Ierusalem Act. 12.2 that it was the .46 yeare of our Lorde it is proued thus The countreis about â–ª that is Tyre and Sidon were
then nourished with the kings prouision But that prouision Claudius made in the great famine ▪ the .4 yere of his raigne which was the yeare of our Lord .46 Againe immediatly after the scripture mēcioneth the death of Herode But Herode was made king in the first yeare of Caligula and raigned 7. yeare so he died in the .4 yeare of Claudius And consequently as is said the .46 yeare of our Lorde Peter being now in prison at Ierusalem and thus the seconde time that Peter is mencioned to be in Ierusalem is the .46 yeare of Christ. Afterward when the Apostles helde the councell in Ierusalem that it was the .48 yeare of our Lord it is proued by S. Paule who after he had mentioned his conuersion and his first going to Ierusalem whereof we spake before he saith thus Then after .14 yeres I went vp again to Ierusalem So it was the .48 yeare of our Lord this being .14 yeare after his conuersion and he conuerted in the .35 of our Lorde and thus it is proued that in the yeares of our Lord .35.38.46.48 Peter was in Ierusalē Now it resteth to proue that in the meane space Peter came not to Rome That he was not at Rome betwene the .35 and the .38 yeare I haue this profe In the yeare of our Lorde .37 Pilate wrote his letter◠vnto Tiberius the Emperor of Christ and of his doctrine and how the Iewes accompted him a God whereby the Emperoure was so moued that he wold nedes make Christ a God in Rome ▪ If Peter had bene in Rome Pilates letters had not ben necessary The Emperor should haue had better instruction Thus in those three yeares Peter was not in Rome Betwene the .38 yere and the .46 yeare they say suche is their impudencie that Peter was Bishop all the while at Antioche If it be so then by their owne confession he was not at Rome But the scripture is plain he was neither at Antioche nor yet at Rome And howe these 7. yeares are passed marke and thou shalt see In the beginning of these .7 yeares Peter goeth forth a preaching First into all Iury Galile and Samaria which wold require some cōtinuance Afterward he goeth vp to the saints at Lidda and there tarieth From thence he goeth to Ioppe and there tarieth dies multos a long while From thence he goth to Caesarea and ther couerted Cornelius the first gentile that euer he conuerted as is plain by the scriptures then he abideth certain dayes at Caesarea all this well nigh .400 miles from Antioche and now for profe he maketh no hast to Antioche he commeth home againe to Ierusalem where he is againe ioyned with the Apostles And now the Apostle heare word that certaine gentiles at Antioche are conuerted not by Peter but by the disciples that fled when Steuen was stoned Act. 7.60 8.1 Well did the holy ghost here name them that preached this while at Antioche or else here had ben some coloure for Peters bishoprike But marke further when the Apostles heare this to confirme the gentiles they send to Antioche But vvhome sende they Peter Sure they vvoulde haue done had he then bene their bishop but Peter abideth still in Ierusalem and Barnabas is sent to Antioche where he abideth after goth in to Tarsus to Paule from thēce they come againe bothe to Antioche and there tary afterwarde one whole yeare About this time saith the scripture Peter was put in prison which was as is proued the yeare of our Lord .46 And that he continued in Ierusalem euer since Barnabas was sent to Antioche we haue this coniecture When he was deliuered out of prison and knockt at Maries dores Rhoade the maide knewe him by his voice And so well that the Disciples said she was madde or else it was Peters angell Yet were the thing neuer so incredible she said she was sure it was euen he This perfecte knowledge of a mannes voyce required some continuaunce of acquaintaunce And thus we are come to the .7 yeare of his bishoprike of Antioche in which time he yet neuer came at Antioche Nowe the yeare of our Lord .46 the .4 of Claudius he goeth from Antioche to Rome and there is bishop .25 yeares 2. months .8 dayes from the .16 of Ianuary to the .24 of March Suche accompt I trow they make that tell vs how many mile it is to heauen But be it so he is gone out of the prisone in Ierusalem .2000 mile of to Rome to be made bishop If the story of dame Ioane were so incredible as this maister Harding vvith some countenaunce might haue written against it But let vs go foreward In the yeare of our Lorde .48 notwithstanding this posting to Rome he is yet at Ierusalem And from hēceforth that he ment not to goe to Rome but kepe his promise that he would continue among the Iewes we haue this profe First his othe where Iames Peter and Iohn doe sweare vnto Paule and Barnabas that they would execute their Apostleships among the Iewes Which sure Peter woulde not haue done if he had thought to haue gone to Rome and all the Papists in the world shall neuer be able to ansvver it iangle hovv they vvil that Peter vvas bishop of Rome He vvas not he ment it not he kept his promisse Paule calleth him the Apostle of circumcision He vvas aftervvarde among the Ievves at Antioche he vvryteth ▪ his Epistle to the Ievves that vvere straungers and scattered abroade in Asia euen as Iames dothe to the tvvelue Tribes scattered among the nations and Iohn to them that had heard and seene from the beginning vvhich vvere the Ievves Thus did those Apostles minde their promise though vve talke of bishopprikes vve knovve not vvhat But bicause there are yet three and twenty yeares behinde let vs as vve may examine them by the scriptures In the Actes vve read that Priscilla and Aquila and all the residue of the Ievves vvere banished out of Rome But this vvas done the .9 yeare of Claudius Anno Domini .51 When now Peter should haue bene more than .5 yeare bishop in Rome Thus yll may this fable agree vvith the scriptures of God But let vs examine it further About six yeares after this and the beginning of the raigne of Nero Paule wryteth his Epistle to the Romaines as appeareth for that he then caried vp to Ierusalem for the pore saints there abiding suche distribution as they of Macedonia and Achaia had gathered which was a little before Paules last going to Ierusalem as most writers agree in the last yeare of Claudius And for profe it was so now al things are quiet at Rome Paule saluteth Priscilla and Aquila which in the .9 of Claudius were bothe banished and the Actes doe specifie certaine yeares after in which Paule and they were togither So now being at Rome againe it agreeth wel that the Epistle to the
exquisite crueltye against them and yet for all this shall we thinke that Peter vvas bishop I leaue here to speake of Peters ovvne epistles the last written a little before his death what time this persecution shoulde haue bene in the greatest rage yet Peter doeth not so muche as once mention any suche thing The former was writeÌ„ about the .12 yere of Claudius and by expresse words dated from Babilon which thing bicause it is a most euideÌ„t token that Peter was theÌ„ no bishop of Rome Therfore they make this glose vpon it From Babylon that is from Rome and vvhat a miserable shift is this in defence of Peters bishoprike to confesse Rome to be Babylon But Rome as it is it shal be Babylon and their religion as it is it shall be the purple vvhore and the Pope as he is he shall be Antichrist rather than they vvill lose this succession of Peter And heere to make the fable perfect they shut it vp vvith tvvo especiall lies The one that Paule and Peter bothe died in one day The other that Christ met Peter flying avvay and bad him goe back and suffer death As touching the first vve reade of Paule vvhen he vvas conuerted he vvas a yong man and vvhen he vvent to Ierusalem to see Peter Athanasius saith he vvent for reuerence â–ª that he bare to Peters age So it seemeth Peter vvas gray headed vvheÌ„ Paule vvas but young About .25 yeres after Paule vvryteth to Philemon Though I be as I am euen Paule an olde man Then vvhat vvas Peter at these yeares Yet Paule liueth after this ten yeare and then wryteth of hym selfe that the tyme of his resolution is at hande Paule had novv finished euen his naturall course a very probable coniecture that he outliued Peter But this other vntruthe that vve speake of is aboue all coniecture shamelesse and vnreasonable They saye that Peter the night before he shoulde suffer fledde avvay and as he vvas going Christ met him vvhome vvhen he had seene Peter sayd vnto him Domine quò vadis Maister vvhether goest thou Then christ made aunswere Romam iterum crucifigi to Rome that I may be crucified againe Then Peter perceiued that Christ spake of him and so he returned and vvas crucified as if Peter him selfe had neuer taught vs that the heauens must containe and kepe Christ vntill the time that all things be restored vvhiche shall not be accomplished vntill the last day and thus endeth the fable of Peters bishoprike in Rome Novv good christian Reader thou consider of it as the truthe shall moue thee and vvay the Pope and Papistry vvhat it is Searche the scriptures saith â–ª our sauior Christ. For they doe beare vvitnesse of me But searche the scriptures vvhile thou vvilt thou canst not finde one line for the Popes supremacie no title for proofe of Peters bishoprike in Rome A certaine argument the Pope is not of Christ. And as this head and vvell spring of all this iniquitie I meane the Pope him selfe hath no vvarrant in the vvorde of God so his religion that it may be like him selfe is altogether contrary and beside the vvorde of God What should I here recite all particulares Searche the scriptures thou shalt not finde neither Masse nor Mattens Diriges Trentals Dispensations Iubileis Indulgences Pardones Pâ—lgrimage Holy water Holy bread Crucifixe Rodes Banners Tapers Sensors Paxes Pixes Canopies Copes Corporase Vestments Albes Stoales Tunicles Saccaring Eleuation Altare Altareclothes Superaltaries Howseling Shriuing Aneling Dispeling Creping Halovving of Bels Halovving of Churches Halovving of Fountes Monethes mindes Lent Vigill Aduent Praying to saintes praying for the deade praying in a straunge tongue none other of the xxv Articles mencioned by maister Iuell And vvhat shoulde I speake of all that are almoste infinite Reade their Portuise and reade the Bible thou shalt finde no leafe of agreement And this none can denye vvho so euer is most frovvardly bent What resteth then if vve loue God and his holy vvorde but that vve consider our vvayes and see vvhether vve vvalke as he hathe taught vs. There is no heauen but his dvvelling place no vvalking vnto it but by his coÌ„maundements and his commandementes no vvhere to be founde but in the Scriptures vvhich he hath left vs. Next vnto Gods glory we haue nothing so precious as the sauegarde of our owne soules And where shall we finde the saluation of our soules but in the vvorde of God God graunt vnto thee his holy spirite that thou mayest heare his worde and keepe the same to the obedience of his will and the saluation of thine owne soule Amen Farewell from Christes colledge in Cambridge the .iiij. of April Anno Domini 1568. Thine in the Lorde Edward Dering ¶ An Aunswere to M. Hardings Epistle wrytten vnto Mayster Iuel Hardyng ¶ Although M. Iuell when you proclaimed your chalenge at the beginning you promised to yelde and subscribe if any man alyue were able to bryng anye one sentence out of any old Doctour Councell Scripture or exaÌ„ple of primitiue Church for proofe of any one of all your articles yet verily I am perswaded no wyse man beleued what soeuer or how much so euer were brought that you would stand vnto your promise c. So then the largenesse of your promise to others maketh shewe of your confidence and to your selfe the regarde of it encreaseth stubbernesse Dering WHen king Alaxander had proclaimed war against Darius a certaine boasting PersiaÌ„ in stéede of more manhood vsed muche vnreuerent talke agaynst them of Macedonia and especially against Alexander hymselfe But Memnon hys Captayne perceiuing thys soldiours valiantnesse to be all in his railing tongue at the last strake hym wyth hys speare and sayde Ego te alo vt pugnes non vt maledicas I retayne thée to fight and not to speake euyll The very lyke of thys is happined among vs and thys pratyng Soldiour doth play hys part agayne The Byshop of Sarisburie our Alexander in Christian warre and godly courage hath made proclamacion against the Pope that proude Prince Darius Kyng of Babilon Now least there should want a Soldiour to speake euyll of Alexander Maister Harding hath taken vpon hym that part and spareth no péece of hys cunning by all meanes possible to debase thys good enterprise God if it be hys wyll once make hym know hym selfe or if he shall continue in hys euyll speakyng sende ouer hym some Memnon that may chasten hys intemperate tongue In thys beginning of hys Epistle there is lyttle woorthy aunswering He pronounceth boldly of M. Iuels entent yet no man knoweth the things of a man saue the spirite of man which is within hym Hys writing is like a Crowe in Peacocks feathers or an ylfauored Ape in a purple garment The handlyng of hys matter is very beautifull and the substance is nothing woorth And yet in hys maner of resoning bicause M. Iuell wyll not subscribe he concludeth that he is both
earth But Macte ista virtute tua â–ª yet let your worship reioyce in Gods mercies for not withstanding these daungerous rockes yet you are passed in to narrow way and the Lorde God be praised who shall encrease the number you haue some companye There be men of great honoure and estimation yet louers of Gods truthe and voide of all courtly wickednesse Would God their doings were registred in Ceder trees and they had golden pictures in the Citie OLYMPIA â–ª that they might be spectacles to all noble posteritie God hath sure giuen them double happinesse Their liues shall ende here in honoure and then it pleaseth their father to giue vnto them his kingdome There are other great gouernours of this common wealth beautifull and comely members of Christes body â–ª which make not policie their religion nor blasphemie Gods ordinaunce where mannes lawe doth not establishe it They haue chosen the good parte which shall not be taken from them God shall make their dwelling places sure when the aduersarie shall be throwen downe out of his seat Some other there be of good estatâ— and vertuous not entangled with vanitie nor blinded with superstition which make not gaine their rightuousnesse nor contempt of Gods ministers their estimation They shall receiue an hundred folde in this life and when they haue run their course they shall haue the crowne of glory And as in the time of ELIAS when the Prophet thought that all the children of Israel had forsaken Gods couenaunt broken downe his altares and slaine his Prophets with the sworde yet God made answere I haue reserued vnto me 7000. men which haue not bowed their knee to DAAL euen so at this present time there is a remnant through the election of grace that haue not their inwarde thoughts spotted with papistrie nor their outwarde life with especiall crimes With these and other bicause your worship doth walke togither in the straight path of true obedience God hath giuen vnto you this fruit of your aucthoritie to be beloued among them where you dwell and this comfort of your conscience that by your example they learne to know God Nowe what remaineth but that you pray vnto God that he which hath bâ—gon this good worke in you will make it perfect vnto the ende that as your youth hath not bene fed with suche wantonnesse as in like estate and fortune do the vsually abounde so your further yeares should be voide of all vngodly desires and you found faithfull vnto your death in the which hope and confidence the Lorde God through his sonne Iesus Christ sende you long life and happy yeares to the maintenaunce of his glory and comfort of his Church Fare you well in the Lord from Christes colledge in Cambridge the .2 of Aprill 1568. Youres bounde as his owne Edwarde Dering ¶ To the Christian Reader WHen I first perused this Reioinder of master Hardings good Christian Reader and savve in vvhat sort he made answere to M. Iuels Replie I vvas grieued bothe for his own sake that so many good giftes should be so yll applied and especially for thy sake least peraduenture his deceitful talk should beguile thee I sawe on the one side the inclination of many very daungerously bent to the loue of that religion On the other side much wordly wisdome and vnderstanding countenaunced with suche a singulare boldnesse and impudencie that without the especiall working of almighty God I saw but litle hope of their further libertie whose hart was set to receiue bondage I coulde not be ignoraunt of the common prouerb which I had heard so often that fair words do make fooles faine and I sawe againe the subtile kinde of wryting the sugred words and entising speaches which the enimie did vse to call away the simple vnto their destruction These euils the more perillous they were so I thought it appertained vnto all good men by what meanes possible to seke the spedier remedie And therefore in the great businesse which that good Bishop had in hande whose happy Sermon did first so much enflame the enimie I thought it some parte of my duetie according to the gift that God had giuen me so to make aunswere vnto the subtile aduersarie and helpe to confirme in Gods truthe suche our simple brethren as were falling away Vpon this occasion I first toke vpon me to meddle with this Reioinder And when in reading it I founde the whole nothing worthy answer I did chuse only so farre to touche it as I might bothe make a sufficient discharge of all suche blame as was laid vpon maister Iuel and shewe forthe an open and vndoubted proofe of the residue of maister Hardings labour Then I toke vpon me the aunswer of his long Epistle written to M. Iuell wherein he spareth nothing saue only truthe to allure his reader and the defence of those .225 vntruthes whereby he would discredite Gods true religion By this meanes I did trust that some would quench their longing thirst to drinke of that golden cuppe full of poison and spirituall whoredomes and perceiuing the whole grounde of their religion to be nothing else but quarels and wranglings would at last runne forthe of their vngodly synagoges and most frowarde assemblies This labor I had finished more than .xij. monthes since with so little diligence that it made wiser men to consider better of it whose wisdome was also a longer stay vnto me least either my true meaning might run in blame for want of consideration or my vnripe writing might giue occasion to the enimie of triumph But afterwarde remembring the good councell of Plutarche 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 So I after some continuaunce of time read ouer againe mine owne doing in which as I could haue wished something altered if I had sought the commendation of learning so I sawe nothing but truthe maintained and that in suche sort as maister Harding might not wel contemne it Then knowing assuredly that bothe the defence of truthe might edifie the learned and the manner of my wryting minister grace vnto the godly Reader I would no longer suppresse that which being set abroade might be fruitful And vpon this aduise I deliuered it vnto the Printer but after perusing it I espied in the Printing many faultes which the indifferent reader will not lay vpoÌ„ me Only for my discharge I thought good in this Epistle to admonishe thee of some that by them thou mightest knowe whome to blame for the rest In the .38 leafe for the house of 〈◊〉 thou shalt finde printed the churche of Rome and straight after modest for immodest In the .40 leafe such language for such laughing In the .46 leaf the same hath made vs free for the sonne hath made vs free In the .53 leafe way for â—ay fol. 64. corner it for couer it fol. 65. is not yet for is yet In the .96 leafe thou shalt find king Ionathas yet good reâ—der I wrote king Iosaphat If that fault had ben mine I wold theÌ„ haue alowed M. Harding
Romains was written about the beginning of the raigne of Nero and the yeare of our Lorde .56 at which time Peter was not at Rome as may be proued aboue all gesses and coniectures out of the worde of God First he saluteth diuers by name and yet he speaketh not of Peter a sure profe that Peter was not at Rome Againe he saluteth Andronicus and Iunia with this especial note which are notable among the Apostles and were in Christ afore me How muche more occasion had Paule thus to salute and commende Peter whome he calleth other where a piller of the Church and who was not only before Paule but before all men sauing Andrew his brother called to be a disciple Nothing may be here answered but that only which is true Peter was not at Rome If these reasons seme not strong inoughe then good Reader loke in the .15 to the Romaines thou shalt haue an other which by no meanes may be shifted off Thus he wryteth I enforced my self to preache the gosple not where Christ was named least I should haue built vpon an other mannes foundation but as it is vvritten to vvhome he vvas not spoken of they shall see him and they that heard not shall vnderstande him Then he addeth therefore also I haue bene oft let to come vnto you by which words it is manifest they had but weake maintenaunce of their faith and the true Disciples had no long continuaunce among them But how could this be if Peter were .25 yeare Bishop there Again he saluteth the houshold of Narcissus which Narcissus saith Ambrose vvas Presbiter eius ecclesiae a chiefe ruler in that churche and hovv coulde Paule here haue forgotten Peter being Archpresbiter the chiefe of all rulers and Pope himselfe Thus are vve past .xj. yeare of this Bishoprike and yet vve can not once finde S. Peter in his diocesse In the yeare of our Lord .58 and the seconde of Nero Paule commeth to Rome and then Peter is not at Rome as appeareth by this saying of the Scripture vvhere the chiefe of the Ievves in Rome speake thus vnto Paule We vvill heare of thee vvhat thou thinkest for as concerning this secte vve knovve that euery vvhere it is spoken againste Then vvhen Paule had preached vnto them and some beleued and some beleued not The text saith vvhen he had said these the Ievves departed and had great reasoning among them selues Is it possible that Peter should now haue bene thirtene yeare bishop and yet the chiefe of the Ievves that vvere there vvhen Paule came had scarce any vnderstanding of Christ â–ª They may beleue it that vvill nedes be deceiued Tvvo yeare after this vntill the yeare of our Lorde 60. the fourthe of Nero Paule abideth in Rome All vvhich while vndoubtedly Peter came not once there as may plain appeare if thou reade the Epistles vvhich Paule vvrote in Rome To the Galathians he speaketh muche of Peter and of his conuersation vvith him about tvventy yeares paste but of his present being at Rome not one vvorde and yet he speaketh of him to this purpose to get the more credite vnto himselfe vvhy then doeth he not name him as novve present vvith him In like case vvryting to the Philippians he beginneth his Epistle thus Paule and Timothie vvhy coulde he not heere haue begon Paule and Peter Nay what folly vvas it to bring Peters testimonie many yeares past vvhich novv might be doubted of vvhen he might haue had his present and most certaine vvitnesse vvith subscription of his ovvne hande to confirme his doctrine Againe he vvryteth thus vnto the Philippians that many brethren in the Lord vvere boldned through his bandes and durste frankely speake the worde if bandes would haue made them faithfull no doubt Peter had long before confirmed them surely he would not haue shronke neither for chaines nor prisones It is his owne doctrine that heere vnto we are called he coulde not so sone haue forgotten his owne good councell Againe Paule wryteth he had no man like minded as Timothy was how coulde this be if Peter had bene there Againe he wryteth he had only Aristarchus his prisone felow sure Peter would haue bene in prisone too if he had bene in Rome Againe Marke and Iustus are onely my felow workers and shall we thinke that Peter was now bishop yet would not helpe Paule in preaching Read ouer all Paules Epistles written in Rome and if the spirite of truthe be within thee thou wilt say Peter was not in Rome yet now he shoulde haue bene euen in the floure of his bishoprike Nowe are there only lefte ten yeares behinde in which likewise it shall appeare whether Peter were in Rome At the latter ende of this ten yeare Anno Domini .7d Neronis .14 Paule commeth againe to Rome and is againe imprisonned whence he wryteth his seconde Epistle to Timothie as Ierome and Eusebius and diuers other doe thinke Then Peter is not in Rome Only Luke is vvith me saith S. Paule if this be true vvhere then vvas Peter Shall vve thynke he vvoulde not once see Paule a prisonner Againe at my first aunswering no man assisted me but all forsoke me O vnthankefull vvretches and deseruing yll of Peter that vvoulde novve thinke Peter vvere Bishoppe But heere are nowe nine yeares in the meane season in vvhich it is sone proued Peter coulde be no bishop Paule reioysed that he had escaped out of the hands of Nero. But what needed he if that Peter could set quietly bishop Seneca wryteth secretely epistles vnto Paule and Paule vnto Seneca but neuer a worde of Peter Nero made proclamation that no man shoulde speake either to Christian or to Iewe and howe coulde then Peter be bishop Nero when he had set the Citie on fire in the .9 yeare of his raigne to auoid the enuye of so great a mischiefe he layde all the fault vpon the Christians whereof Tacitus that wicked heathen wryteth thus Repressa in praesâ—ns exitiabilis supersticio rursus â—rumpâ—bat That wicked superstition that was now well repressed sprang vp againe But is it like if Peter had bene then bishop that christianitie shoulde haue bene so quenched that no man did scarce remember it But be it that all this were true let Peter become vnfaithfull let him forget to professe Christ and feede his flocke were he neuer so vnthankfull yet sure he coulde not be then bishop of Rome For in the .10 yeare of his raigne Nero made suche great persecution of all Christians that in no place they coulde be sure but euery where were drawne forthe vnto moste shamefull deathes and this persecution continued .4 yeares without intermission and how vvas Peter then a bishop They had beastes skinnes put vpon them and then were weryed with dogges they laide them on heapes and burnt them to giue light in the night time they hong them vp quicke vpon gibbets they practised all kinde of
of the Apostels heresies our sauiour Christ a Samaritan But as for your Portuise which is your light whether it be darknesse or no I craue no Arbitrer I require but triall and as Elias saide to the priests of Baal let vs take eyther our bullock and laie the péeces on our aultars and on which God sendeth fire let that be the light You haue halted to long on both sides it is now time to walke vp right Offer vp your Portuise to Maister Iuell if he proue it not a heape of lies a sincke of iniquitie a déepe dungion of blasphemouse herisies agaynst the eternall sonne of God his euerlasting priesthood we will all subscribe And for the assuraunce of our meaning we saie with the Apostle behold before God we lie not if you dare not doe this the Christian Reader must remember you are woorse then Baals prophets Consider then Maister Harding in what waters you wade and looke better what is light darknesse For the ignoraunce of gods worde the Gentiles were said to sit in darkenesse and in the shadow of death the vnbeléeuing Iewes to be blinde leaders of the blinde and he that knewe it not to go he wist not whether But the darckning of that worde hath bene your chiefest light and ignoraunce the mother of your deuotion and as in the sacrifices of Isis and Serapis you haue made Harpocrates image with his finger on his lyps in token that your misteries must be kept secrete and as the Egiptians you haue your two diuers caracters that Robin Hoode and Gui of Warwick and Beuis of Hampton such like shoulde be had of the people in english letters But the misteries of our redemption the glorious tidings of the death of Christ were in straunge figures for the hasarde of deuotion they might not be made common So that of Launcelot Dulake of Lamorake de Galis of Sir Tristram de Lyones or Marlin the Prophet we could tell many weary tales but of Paule of Peter Iames or Iohn â–ª besides the bare names not one among a hundred could tell a lyne not withstanding the continual crying of wysdome in the stréetes the callyng of our Sauiour for the sielie lyttleones O M. Hardyng this is no light It was the tyme of Dioclesian when the Scriptures were burned the abhominations of Manasses when they were hyd in the Temple the kingdome of Antiochus when they were cut in péeces and to compare lyke with lyke your Antichristian iurisdiction where they are kept in couert Wherin you shew that great plague to rest vpoÌ„ you which who so heareth eyther eare shall tingle that you haue the famine of the woord of God When the cogitacion of maÌ„s hart euen from hys youth was euyll the worlde ouerrun w t couetousnesse God purged that iniquitie with his drowning waters when the crie of Sodome and Gomor did ascende to heauen God quenched their filthie lustes wyth fire and brimstone the frowardnesse of hys people the breach of his lawes the bloud of hys prophetes with pestilence famine banishments such other sundrie and diuers plagues but the death of hys onely heire wyth the letting out of the Uineyard to others and the bloud of hys beloued Sonne with the scourge of ignoraunce that vnto this daie they beleue not his glorious Gospel And how must the Popes kingdom néedes tremble feare that acknowledgeth the punishments of Christes death to maintaine their religion Now for our deliuerie from the maintenaunce of darkenes S. Paul biddeth vs not beleue an Angel of heauen that bringeth an other Gospell therefore we dare not be led with any blinde custome to shadowe the same light we haue receiued If you shall otherwyse be alway minded I se in an Etnick hart the effect of that etnicks praier virtutem vt videant intabesâ—antque relicta that you might sée vertue and pine away with want of it After this foloweth a sober excuse that Maister Harding maketh of him selfe that although through infirmitie he oftentimes offend yet in matters of faith he hath no peruerse iudgement The reason is bicause he doth submit him self to the church of Rome â–ª Much better this argument would hold the other way bicause he is in the church of Rome he is in all filthinesse superstition of a sinfull lyfe and of a corrupt religion hauing the heauie hand of God ouer him that except he repent the same woe shall light vppon him which so vnwisely he hath deriued to other Hardyng ¶ This matter is well to be weighed the case you stand in is deeplie to be considered This much you cannot denie you haue for your parte broken the vnitie that is so much commended vnto vs in the scriptures and all holy fathers The Catholicke churche sayth Saint Cyprian can be one it can not be cut and deuided a sunder The catholicke Churche alone is the bodie of Christ saith S. Augustine whereof he is the head the sauiour of his bodie Without hys body the holye Ghost giueth life to none Therefore in an other place he saith whosoeuer is seperat from the catholick churche how lawdable so euer he thinketh himselfe to liue for this onely wickednesse that he is deuided from the vnity of Christ he shall not haue lyfe but the wrath of God remaineth vpon him Dering Here is a sad admonition concerning the catholike Churche which we acknowledge to be the bodie of Christ and he the onely heade of it so that without it there is no saluation But for the triall of this Church we go to the Scriptures and doe examine ech spirit whether he be of God or no and such as saie they be Apostles and be none we haue founde them lyars therefore we run out from among them as out of the middest of Babilon out of their wicked assemblies and donne of théeues from their abominations of Moab and spirituall fornications and ar come againe to our merciful Father that hath prepared his fatlings for vs and put on vs our wedding garment and placed vs at his great Supper in the felowship of his church where we abide thorough his mercie and looke for our resolucion that our ioy maie be full And for our assurance to be of that number we haue the warraÌ„t of the Scriptures first for that we harken onely to Christ and heare not the voice of any stranger then for that we confesse that they alone can saue our soules And as S. Paul saith can make the man of God perfit to all good workes And considering that Prophecie came not in the olde time by the wyll of man but holie men of God spake as they were mooued by y e holy ghost we dare not admit any priuate interpretation but take héede vnto the worde as vnto a light that shineth in a darke place for that is the daye starre which is risen in our harts Therefore we presume not to vnderstand aboue that which
our aultar which is the onely foode of our soule euen Iesus Christ the righteous And this was figured in the offering of a red Cow whych God commaunded to be giuen to Eleazar the Priest and he should burne hir without the hoste with hir skyn and hir fleshe and hir blood and hir doong And Eleazar the high priest and the inferiour priest that burned hir shoulde washe their clothes and their flesh and be vncleane vntil Euen Likewise he that gathered the ashes of the Cowe should wash his clothes and his flesh and be vncleane vntill Euen No parte of it shoulde be reserued for the Priest whereby we are taught that the sacrifice of our sauiour Christ whereby his people are sanctified must be alone made with out any thinge appertaining either vnto the priest or tabernacle for which cause as S. Paul saith he suffered without the gate Let vs go forth therefore out of the camp bearing his reproch For we haue here no cōtinuing city but we séeke one to come Let vs therefore by him offer sacrifice of prayse alwayes to God that is the fruite of the lippes which confesse his name Let Massings and Massing garments go let the hill altars alone meddle not with Ieroboams golden calues to do it nowe were open blasphemy which before Christes cōming God had cōmaunmaunded our sauiour Christ is the truth it selfe He wyll not be coupled with the Tabernacle which is blinde shadowes Saint Paule maketh a playne seperation of the aultar and the Gospell where he disputeth for the maintenaunce of the Minister Doe ye not know sayth he that they which minister about the holy things eate of the things of the Temple and they which wayte at the aultar are partakers of the aultar So also hath the Lord ordeyned that they which preache the Gospell should lyue of the Gospell Which argument of the Apostle had not bene well gathered if the aultars shoulde haue bene in the Christian congregations The fourth heresie that is founde in this popish article is this that Christ is offered againe vnto his father S. Paule sayth no man taketh this honour vnto him but he that is called of God euen as was Aaron But no title in the woord of God that giueth vnto a mortall man this authority therefore they may not claime it And our sauiour Christ sayth to the Samaritan woman Beleue me the houre is come when neyther in Ierusalem neyther in this hill you shall worship the father but the true worshippers shall worship in spirite and verity For the father requireth euen suche to worship him God is a spirit and they that worship him must worship in spirit and truth But if Christ were really offered vp to his father there were a truer woorship than the worship of the spirite Againe S. Paule saith let them haue mysterium fidei the mysterye of faith in a pure conscience He would◠doubtles haue saide mysterium sacrificij the mystery of this sacrifice of Christ shoulde yet oftener haue ben offred And S. Iames faith pure religion and vndefiled before God euen that father is this to visite the fatherles and widdowes in their aduersity and to kéepe him selfe vnspotted of the world But Maister Harding saith thus Our Religion must haue a sacrificing of Christ vnto his father and therfore we are assured that Maister Hardinges Religion is not pure and vndefiled The scriptures are full of such places which teach vs how to please God and take holde of saluation But in all those places no such sacrificing of Christ is mencioned and therfore to fancie any such imaginations is neither to please God nor to walke in that way which leadeth to saluation If this be not sufficient which is sufficient to a christian man we haue besides most certaine proofe which by no meanes can be coloured S. Paule saith where there is remission of sins there is no more offering for sinne but Christ hath alreadye forgiuen vs all our trespasses and put out the hand writing of ordinaunce which was against vs. c. And as saynt Peter sayth we are redeemed with the precious bloud of Christ as of a Lambe vndefiled and without spot And therefore Christ is not now offered for sinne And here appeareth moreouer the fift heresie in M. Hardings proposition For if Christ be not offered to his father neither any oblation for sinne is remayning then is there now no propitiatorie sacrifice but onely one which God hath already made vpon the aultar of the crosse And that this should be but once made it appeareth for that Aaron might but once in the yeare goe into the holy place within the vaile before the mercy seate where he made attonement for him selfe and for his house So speaketh S. Iohn of the sacrifice once made meaning it alone to be propitiatorie If any man sinne we haue an aduocate wyth God the father Iesus Christ the iust and he is the propitiation for our sinnes he maketh intercession before hys father he is not sacrificed on the altar Againe he sayth herein is loue not that we loued God but that he loued vs and sent his Sonne to be a propitiation for our sinnes When Christ made this propitiatorie sacrifice he was sent of his father and he was sent but once euen than as S. Paule sayth when the fulnesse of time was come Now is the time of his imbassage done He hath satisfied the law of God first toward his father in that he was obedient vnto death euen vnto y e death of the crosse thā toward his brethern in that he had that great loue that he gaue his life for his friendes from hence forth he ceaseth from that legacy and sittes at the right hande of his father in glory and maketh continuall intercession for vs. Therfore nowe his father doth no more send him and he wil not againe be sacrificed This is ynoughe if we were not dull of hearing to take from vs these vngodly deuises concerning any other propitiatory sacrifice than that which is already made But M. Harding and his fellowes that can so well peruerte the scriptures of God they haue many shiftes to defende their owne fancies This our sacrifice say they is no newe sacrifice but the same which Christ made yet Saint Paule saith it was one oblation and semel peracta but once made To this againe they aunswere that it was but once made bloudy but theirs is vnbloudy But the Apostle saith Absque sanguinis effusione non sit remissio without sheding of bloude there is no remission of sinnes what than auaileth this vnbloudy sacrifice But they saye further it is an application of the death of Christ. But the Apostle proueth that the sacrifices of the lawe were vnperfite bicause in them was a remembrance againe of sinnes euery yeare so there is now no such kinde of application They cannot possible so turne their deuises but the Apostle must
néedes proue their Masse full of Sacriledge Christ onely was méete to offer vp hymselfe but they in their Masse will haue a priest to offer him Christes sacrifice was but one and once finished In their Masse if their sacrifice were one yet is it daily iterated There can be no remission of sinnes without bloud In their Masse they make it vnbloudy yet they haue it to cleanse sins Thus their Masse and the Apostle cannot be reconciled God for â—is mercy roote it out that we may be made frée from that wicked mistery There resteth yet one péece in this idolatrous assertion whether there be any sacrifice for y e dead This controuersie is verye foolish and full of olde wyues dreames neyther grounded on the worde of God bicause it is vngodly nor requireth much impugning bicause it hath no reason Yet seing M. Harding coulde neuer sée the marke to shoote at I will let it plaine before him if he will shoote at it with the worde of God he shall be sure to ouerthrowe it King Salomon hath made him fit arrowes euen for the nonce if he will drawe truely he shall hit the marke What soeuer saith Salomon thy hande doth finde to do do it spedily for there is neyther worke nor inuention nor knowledge nor wisedome in the graue whether thou goest If the case stande thus with vs when we are gone concerning our doinges then is there no more purgatory Againe he saith if the trée doe fall towarde the South or toward the North in the place that the tree falleth there it shalbe and these wordes of the holy Ghost are true Therfore no Pope no Trentalles no Indulgences nor pardons can moue the trée out of his place in which it is once fallen Againe it is written defraude not thy selfe of the good day and let not the portion of good desires ouer passe thée meaning therby we should take the tyme of our lyfe For after it will be to late to aske repentaunce and in that chap. it followeth Giue and take I sanctifie thy soule worke thou righteousnes before thy death for in the hell ther is no meat to finde which sayinges are likewise confirmed by that which is spoken by S. Paule Behold now is the acceptable time behold now is the day of health To the same sense it is likewise spoken All corruptible thinges shall faile and the worker thereof shall go withall By which scriptures it appeareth how little holdfast these purgatory patrons haue And here I would haue them aunswere if they can We haue often in the scriptures the death of men described yet neuer any worde of purgatory mencioned In the lawe there were sacrifices for the prince for the people for the priest for ielosie for childe birth for the leprosie for diuers kindes of diseases for sundrye infections and griefes pertaining vnto men and yet in the whole lawe not once sacrifice apointed for them in purgatory an vndoubted token that purgatory was than vnknowen Dauid fasted and went in and lays all night vpon the earth while his childe was sicke but when he was dead he arose vp and washed and annointed hymselfe and did eate and aunswered whye he did so while the childe saith he was yet aliue I fasted and wept c. but now being dead wherefore should I now fast The popish priests might soone haue aunswered to release him out of Purgatorie But the prophet Dauid did knowe of no suche matter When we obiect these and such other proofes some stagger and haue not what to saye Some make this aunswer that Purgatorie was not in the time of the law but these good patrons doe litle spare the great mercies of Iesus Christ if they teache that he brought his people this place of torment The testimonie that he giueth of his own good will can not beare it where he prayeth Father my wyll is that where I am there they may be with me whom thou hast giuen vnto me that they may sée my glorie But the glory that his elect shall sée is not I trow the paines of Purgatorie If M. Harding will make exception and say that was spoken onely of the Apostles such as should be of greater perfitenesse than other are that deuice is confounded euen by the testimonie of the same Iesus Christ where he sayth in the same chapiter I doe not pray onely for them but for suche also as shall beleue in me through their preaching so that whosoeuer dyeth in the fayth of Christ he shall not know Purgatorie but euery one which is saued shall dye in the same fayth according to that which is written the iust man shall lyue by his fayth And this is againe proued by the example of the théefe who in no poynt was of such perfection as the Apostles were yet to him it was sayd this day shalt thou be with me in Paradise And S. Paule him selfe testifieth the same where he writeth that the crowne of righteousnes was layd vp for him a rewarde of all his labours And least we should misconstre hys saying as the Papists doe and say that for his great perfection he passed from this life straight into the kingdome of righteousnesse he taketh awaye that vaine gessing saith further that crowne is reserued against y t day Non soluÌ„ mihi c. not onely to me but to euery one y t loueth the coÌ„ming of Iesus Christ. They maye not well doubt that Paule ment by that daye the daie of his death sith he defineth it him selfe in an other place Cupio dissolui c. I desyre to be dissolued be w t Christ. Then if all sortes of men as many as be beleuers bi accepted a like concerning their present happinesse as the scriptures euery where do testifie then let all these foolishe deuises passe Such manner hobbings and rouings what haue we to doe with them Let vs harken after the word of God the soueraigne and alone medicine for the wounded soule Besides all this that we shoulde not feare any purging fire S. Paule testifieth of Christ that he is able perfitely to saue all them that come vnto God through him But whan we go vnto God if Christ from thence sende vs into purgatory how doth he than make perfite our saluation which the soule doth inioy till such time as it be againe ioyned to the body and than made ful Againe in the same Epistle I will be mercifull vnto their vnrighteousnesse and their sinne and will remember their iniquity no more Much lesse than will he sende vs into Purgatory But what néede we séeke longe for the ouerthrowe of such buildings S. Paul in one word derideth y t whole controuersy It is appointed saith he vnto all men that they shall once dye and after that commeth the iudgement If it be so what then auaileth praier for y e dead What helpeth it to haue trentals Where is purgatory After death saith the
Apostle commeth iudgement Here is no colour of shift least except they wil say after death that is when the generall daie of iudgement shall bée And if this might serue then had they somewhat to saye But S. Iohn hath preuented such wrestinge of scriptures After death as he teacheth is immediatly as soone as we be with God for this he writeth Blessed ar the deade which dye in the Lorde from henceforth saith the spirit they rest from their labour No labour abideth any more for them after death immediatlye they are receiued into ioy and their workes doe follow them And this present ioy of the godlye is likewyse specified where the same Apostle writeth that an hundred fourty and foure thousand did stande with the lambe in y e mount Sion meaning the elect which wer w t Christ in his kingdome An hundreth such other places there are in the scripture which testifie of our estate after death and do quite ouerthrowe the Popes purgatory Nowe for the better contentation of the Reader it were worth the labour to answere to al those places of the scripture in which they make so many blinde gesses at purgatory The places are Math. 5.26 c. 12.32 c. 18 34. Luc. 12.59.16.19 l. Co. 3.15 Phil. 2.10 Apo. 5.15 But read these places who list in the feare of God and true desire of knowledge he can by no imaginations haue one gesse at purgatory and yet for the establishing of such a doctrine it had bene requisite they could haue shewed euen the name for the interpretation of other men be they neuer so olde We may saye with the Apostle Euery man aboundeth in his own vnderstanding but no man knoweth the thinges that are Gods saue God alone and his woorde if we will not be deceiued must be our onelye guider But they haue one place 2. Mach. 12.44 in plaine words that it is good to pray for the dead if that booke be of able autority We rede likewise of one Razias an Elder of Ierusalem which first ran vpon his own sworde and when he missed of his stroke he ranne to the top of the wall and threwe him selfe downe among the multitude and yet hauing life in him went to the top of an highe rocke and pulled out his owne bowels and threwe them among the enimies and for this doing he is commended So by the authoritye of the same booke a man maye kill himselfe which Maister Harding him selfe I trowe will not constantly affirme yet this being scripture it might not be doubted Againe the same author saith If I haue done well and as the story requireth it is the thing that I desired But if I haue spoken slenderly and basely it is that I coulde These Iffes and Andes are not of that spirit which hath written the scriptures Thus doubting of his own ability besemeth not the holy ghost Beside this the gréeke in the same place is so corrupt that scarce any sense coulde be made of it And Ioseph ben Gorion out of whom that story semeth to be gathered in the same place doth quite leaue out this praying for the dead But it maye be that in those dayes some ignoraunt Iewes vpon an vnwyse deuotion did thinke it good to praye for the deade and likewise to praye againe vnto them that they would helpe vs. Which if it were so by such meanes this place might come into the Machab. And that some did thinke thus thoughe they were alwayes otherwyse instructed it appereth by one manifest place which is read in Philo Iudeus where he writeth the death of Debora who made a godly exhortatiō to hir people before she dyed For afterward they should finde no repentaunce There some made aunswere vnto hir Ecce nunc mater moreris ora itaque pro nobis post recessum tuum erit anima tua memor nostri in sempiternum Praye for vs after thy departure and let thy soule be mindefull of vs for euer To whom Debora maketh aunswere Adhuc viuens homo potest orare et pro se pro filijs suis post finē autem non poterit exorare nec memor esse alicuius yet while a man is liuing he may pray for him selfe and for his children but whan he is deade he can neyther intreate nor be mindeful of any And it followeth your similitude then shal be like the starres of heauen which are now manifest in you Hereby we sée what iudgement the common people mighte haue in such matters And yet howe the godly did otherwise instruct them reade this place thou shalt finde it so plaine that no wrangling may shift it of but nedes we must confesse that it teacheth vs that we ought neither to praye vnto saintes to help vs neyther yet agayne can we helpe them when they be gone Wherby it appeareth what manner of archer Maister Harding hath ben that could not shoote at so plaine a marke But he did shoote at his own dreames and so he lighted on Purgatorie Yet there follow a great many of markes at the which M. Hardyng could neuer shoote home The first is that the masse and our Communion is one wyth that marke sayth he I was neuer acquaynted Hys loose without doubt is very ill or he shooteth to low a compasse or else he draweth not close For M. Stapleton that shooteth with the same bow and arrowes hitteth this marke euen at the first The Masse and the Communion saith he duelye ministred is all one and it is folly to thinke any contradiction betwéene the Communion and the Masse Thus it appeareth M. Harding is a verye wrangler that wyll not shoote at that marke which his owne fellowes finde An other marke that M. Harding could neuer shoote at is this that Eucharistia doth signifie not the Sacrament but common bread I maruail he could neuer shoote at this marke For sith he began first that babling aunswere to M. Iuels learned Challenge he hath alwaye bene hobbing among those marks wher this is one though he neuer shot at the selfe same yet hath he seldome shot but at such like For it is a marke of slaundering and a marke of lying at whych marke as well in this Reioynder as other where M. Harding most commonly doth shoote very nere I neuer said saith he that Eucharistia was common breade but the sacrament This marke I could neuer sée In déede no maruail for who can well sée the thing that is not But you father this saying vpon Maister Iuell which reporte is all togither vntrue and slaunderous and in shootinge at this marke you drawe maruailous cleane and haue good deliuery be it prickes or rouers you haue measured the ground so oft that you knowe what to shoote But I pray you M. Harding where sayth M. Iuell thus What be his woordes Wher are they to be foūd Thinke you notwithstanding your oft vntrue demeanour that you can discredite your aduersary vpon your bare word The
no partie which way so euer you interprete them declareth a great want of good matter to proue the thing it selfe which lieth in controuersie If these woords be not in the same place yet the very allegation of the gréeke text is a sufficieÌ„t proofe they are found in the author And therefore if false quoting the place be the greatest fault let it go for me it is not worthy no answere The B. of Saris. It was forbidden by many decrees to mynister the sacrament in priuate houses Harding The .185 vntruthe It was not forbidden Dering Untruthes may wel grow in number where one may be reckened so many times Read the .176 vntruthe The B. of Saris. M. Harding hath violently and of purpose falsified the traÌ„slation Harding The .186 vntruthe My translation is true Dering Tell on in a circle M. Harding and then your vntruthes shall neuer haue end Read the .177 vntruthe The B. of Saris. The life of S. Basil hath bene set for the fully and faithfully by Gregorie Nissene Gregorie Nazianzene Gregorie Presbyter Socrates Theodoretus Sozomenus and Nicephorus Harding The .187 vntruthe His life is not set out fully by them Dering God be mercifull vnto vs and when his good will and pleasure is deliuer vs from such wranglers Is not a mannes life set out fully when it is shewed what he hath done openly in the congregation How he hath remoued from place to place What doctrine he hath taught What diligence he hathe vsed What trouble he hathe suffred What enimies he hath had Whose companie he hath frequented What learning he hath studied What promotion he hath gotten How many yeares he hath liued And what euer else he hathe from time to time openly done or suffred All this is declared onely by Gregorie Nazianzene in his Monodia in his Oration De laudibus Basilij and in sundry his Epistles so that what soeuer maister Iuel saith he alone hath done it and that he ment so to doe it is plaine inough for as much as he entituleth his booke De vita Basilij and yet though Nazianzene had not done so muche but all these among them had written this so fully maister Iuels woords had bene true So there is nothing héere to be said for maister Harding but either he wrangleth or misse vnderstandeth The B. of Saris. None of them was so impudent once to make any mention of this pieuishe tale of M. Hardings Masse Harding The .188 vntruthe Vincentius maketh mention of it Dering Reade this tale of Amphilochius Vincentius his words and thou maist hardly think that Vincentius being so full of olde wiues fables as he is would so lightly haue passed ouer this wonderous matter of S. Basill Maister Harding him selfe who is much more temperate in such maner of miracles than Vincentius is by no meanes could let it passe without much practise of his eloqueÌ„ce By this it may be thought that Vincentius neuer knew it or if he knew it he was ashamed to write it being so manifest a lie least he should haue discredited his whole fardle of newes Thus much yet he saith that may sound toward it that God did teach Basil in a vision to offer vp sacrifice with his owne words And vpon this saying Maister Harding aduentureth the quoting of his vntruth To discharge this it were vnnecessarie labour considering the tale is so foolish yet for Amphilochius and Vincentius sakes that one of them may be founde a lier I will a little lay these authors togither Amphilochius saith the next daye after this Masse was done Basil made a golden doue to hang ouer the altar and he put the third part of the host into it Vincentius sayth Basil being at that miraculous Masse Columba aurea quae cum sacramento domini super altare pendebat c. the golden pigeon which did hang ouer the altar with the sacrament of the Lord did not moue thrée times as it was wont to doe c. Bicause a certaine deacon was talking with a womaÌ„ Héere we sée Amphilochius saith the pigeon was made the next day Vincentius saith if hong long before ouer the altar And that the tale may haue one 〈◊〉 of Vincentius office he saith at euerie sataring the pigeon was wont to moue thrice Againe Amphilochius saith there was no bodie but Eubulus that looked in at a creuise Vincentius saith there was a deacon talking with a woman and therefore the pigeon could not moue and so either one of these two Doctours make a lie and then Maister Harding proueth his priuate Masse with a lie or else Basil said Masse twice after his owne fashion and then this is no vntruth But saith Maister Harding Antonius doeth also report this Masse saying I graunt he doeth so And so doth Aesope that apes and asses spake But I trow Maister Harding doeth not beleue him no more doth any wise man his Antonius He y t list to haue y e fabler reproued let him reade the booke The B. of Saris. Maister Hardings Amphilochius saith that after Basils retourne from Pontus Ensebius knew him not Harding The .189 vntruth I assure you my booke hath it not Dering Belike Maister Hardings Amphilochius is but a patched boke But if he wil go to that other at Verona in Italie which is faire written in velem there sure he shal finde it The B. of Saris. Nazianzen saith that Basil was not Bishop of Caesarea in Iulianus time Harding The .190 vntruth Nazianzen saith not so Dering Maister Harding in his Reioinder saith thus Perhaps it is true that Nazianzen was not then Bishop of Caesarea but yet Nazianzen â—aith it not Now sure good Reader without all perhappes Maister Harding is a verie wrangler that when he can not denie the thing yet will stick so dainely vpon the words But say M. Har. what he say wil both Nazianzen al other writers which do speke of Basils doing doe beare witnesse of this matter Nazianzen reporteth how vpon dissention betwene him Eusebius he went into Pontus And when Valens for y e furtheraÌ„ce of Arrian heresie came to Caesarea and vexed much the faithfull Nazianzen was sent to Basil to call him home for the aide of the church vpon which returne he was reconciled to Eusebius in like authoritie gouerned the church Now this being done in the time of Valens who was after Iouinian and Basil yet no Bishop is it not then plaine that Amphilochius is a lier which sayth Basill was Bishoppe in Iulians time which was Emperour next before Iouinian Yf there were no more to say but this yet this would proue Maister Harding were impudent in this vntruth But Nazianzen speaketh yet more plaine he saith Basil was made bishop in Eusebius roome after the death of Valens about the yeare of our Lorde .380 And for an vndoubted proofe that he was no Bishoppe in Iulianus time Basill him selfe writeth that he was made chiefe of the church of Caesarea when the Arrian
heresie was in the greatest rage which was after that Valens hadde raised the great persecution for it And this also thou shalt finde written in Socrates Now these authorities standing thus as thou shalt finde them by examination what will Maister Hardings perhaps excuse him Sure that these manie vntruthes stande vpon no grounde but his impudent facings The B. of Saris. Maister Hardings Amphilochius saith that Basil foretolde the death of Iulian Theodoretus saith it was one Iulianus Sabba and not S. Basil. Harding The .190 vn Theodoretus saith not that Sabba foretold it The .192 vn ▪ He saith not that Basil did not tell it Dering Maister Harding hath but a little way to go and hath yet a great manie vntruths to make Therfore taking good holde in time in these words Sabba foretold it and not Basil he picketh it two vntruths One that Sabba tolde it not the other that Basil tolde it He might with as much facilitie haue made the thirde that and is a coniunction should couple two wordes and sentences together But here by the way note that Amphilochius telleth a fowle popish tale an ilfauored vntruth which Maister Harding thinketh good to skip ouer for shame and with a good courage goeth forward making the reader beleue al is wel Reade the Replie Fol. 83. Now to these vntruthes If Sabba dyd foretell the death of Iulian then notwithstanding Maister Hardings numbring yet Basil foretolde it not Then héere is the controuersie whether Theodorete saith that Iulianus Sabba did tell it first Then reade the place and thou shalt finde it thus When Libanius doeth aske of Sabba what the Carpenters sonne was now a doing Sabba aunswereth that the maker of the worlde whome he in mockage dyd call the Carpenters sonne was making sandapilam a héere to carie dead bodies and sone after the Emperour dyed Then it foloweth in y e next chapter that the same day that Iulian died Resciuit cecidisse Sabba knew he was dead and tolde it vnto his felowes Now iudge who was the first teller of these newes before the Emperour was dead Sabba tolde Libanius his beare was a making the same daye that he died he tolde it abrode Now Basil being then not present with the Emperour as likewise Sabba was not but did know it miraculouslie how could S. Basil tell it before him No doubt good Reader when Maister Harding made two vntruthes of this he had either slender iudgement or verie yll choise The B. of Saris. Maister Hardings Amphilochius saith Nazianzen was present at Basils death Nazianzen him selfe saith he came afterwarde Harding The .193 vntruth Nazianzen saith not so in his Monodia Dering Maister Harding saith in his reioinder he will not denie that this is true Reade his booke is not this a strange matter y t he noteth that for an vntruth which he will not denie but it is a truth Yf he haue no thing to say but that it is not in his Monodia what skilleth it so the thing be truely reported whether the place be noted at all or no I doe easely graunt that Maister Iuel may be well deceiued in keping iust reconing of bookes and chapters but that is a slender fault when he reporteth all that is written truely Now to proue that this is true and that Nazianzen was not at Basils death it is manifest that he was at Arianzum his owne patrimonie and made his Epitaphe and oration vpon Basil one whole yeare after Basil was dead And whē he hadde done he went home againe as it is sufficiently proued by Grigorie Nissene And Gregorius Presbiter doeth witnesse the same that Nazianzen came long after that Basil was dead thus graunting that it be not founde in Nazianzens Monodia yet by other good witnesse Amphilochius is proued a lier Now for misnaming the place alleaging the authoritie truely I shall néede to make no longe aunswere The fault is so small that it doth excuse it selfe The B. of Saris. Maister Hardings Amphilochius is so impudent to say Nazianzen came in all hast and saw the blessed bodie and fell vpon it when it was buried Harding The .194 vntruthe Amphilochius saith not he fell vpon him vvhen he vvas buried Dering In this vntruth is nothing but a little wrangling about this saying when he was buried Which wordes whether they be in Amphilochius or no I meane not yet to go to Verona and looke Sure it is he could not fall on him when he was couered with moulde and sith the matter is no weightier let it rest for me Now Maister Harding skippeth ouer one other lie and maketh no defence of Amphilochius writing it but leaues that altogither vntouched for a testimonie what him selfe thinketh of Amphilochius After all this a doe about him he giueth him ouer with this round conclusion be he as he is I neither defend him nor condemne him he is ashamed any further to defende him bicause he is a shamelesse lier and yet he wil not condemne him bicause he maketh a tale for Maister Hardings Masse In the meane season we haue some gesse what the author is when his great friendes dare not defend him Now Maister Harding skippeth ouer two leaues at once and so draweth to an ende The B. of Saris. Chrysostome saith some are called and some are brought to receiue with the Priest diuis 34. Harding The .195 vntruth Chrisostome saith not so Dering If M. Harding did now begin his wrangling it were peraduenture requisite more at large to blame it but bicause it is common y e reader I trust is alredie forewarned to beleue nothing that he saith without some other witnesse Therefore his credit being thus broken the proofe of this vntruth being so slender there is no great daunger least any man should take hurt by it I will omit therefore further proofe of Maister Iuels saying and I onely require to consider this maner of vntruth Thus Maister Iuel alleageth Chrisostoms words Some are called some brought to receiue with y e priest That is not so saith Maister Harding they are not called to receiue with the Priest This then must be iudged by Chrisostome he writeth thus The Deacon standing vpright in the sight of all the people c. Some he calleth to communicate and some he putteth off Now how can any indifferent man say ▪ that Maister Iuell misreporteth these wordes But so it is Maister Harding hath shut from him all indifferencie and doeth let affection miserably blinde his vnderstanding and by that meanes hath espied this vntruth and the vntruth is that Chrisostome hath not these wordes with the Priest but they are Maister Iuels owne addition But what meaneth he Doth he think the people did receiue without y e priest or if they did not when Chrisostome saith they were called to receiue how is it vntrue to report his saying they were called to receiue with the priest Doe these vntruths néede many words to
not we are all of like worthinesse to receiue the mysteries And what saith he else How doeth M. Harding otherwise interprete him Forsoth saith he these woords similiter omnes vt illa percipiamus digni habemur must be thus Englished We are accompted worthy of the selfe same things in like sort not we are all of one worthinesse to receiue them Who hath hearde one in so graue a matter speake so childishly the very woords of Chrysostome vt percipiamus he wil not haue Englished as they lie And bicause M. Iuel doth so English them suche is his impudencie he notes it for an vntruthe But suche to whome God hath giuen the spirite of knowledge and truth they will confesse how he doeth wrangle and if he haue any grace himselfe as oft as he remembreth these vntruthes he wisheth they were againe vnder his file The B. of Saris. Missa in the time of Tertullian and Cyprian was especially applied vnto the Communion Harding The .223 vntruthe It is not so as you meane Dering M. Hard. harpeth much on M. Iuels meaning But vntruths must not be built vpon gesses Read the .169 vntruthe The B. of Saris. Cataechumeni were present at the Communion till the Gospell was done Harding The .224 It was not the Communion they were present at Dering I graunt it wrangle on M. Iuel confesseth when the Gospel was done they were bid depart what a single vntruthe is this What troweth M. Harding we doe not know that that part of seruice which they heard was called Missa cathechumenorum Or doeth he thinke that the gospel was not red in that seruice This vntruthe ariseth bicause he wil not vnderstand not bicause he doeth not M. Iuel calleth that the Communion which was the whole seruice appointed for the celebration of the Lordes supper At the beginning whereof the Nouices in the faithe of Christ might be present till the deacon cried Exeunto catechumeni which was after the gospell was red The B. of Saris. We pray not aide of sicke folkes for the proofe of our holy Communion as M. Harding is driuen to doe for his Masse Harding The .225 vntruthe I proue not the Masse by them Dering This vntruthe is before sixe times Read the .215 vntruthe ¶ Thus are we come to an ende of this weary Reioinder wherein we sée to what issue M. Hardings great vaunts are come his tragicall exclamations in how small matters there be ended and his multitude of vntruthes how without truth they be gathered He tolde vs that this Replie was altogither corrupt and false yet are there a great many leaues in this first article of which he hath not confuted one word what he would haue done in case it had bene blameable this Reioinder dothe sufficiently witnesse He cried out of corruptions alterations manglings and I wote not what of the olde fathers but quid dignum tulit hic tanto promissor hiatu what hath he brought forthe worthy of so wide gaping These vntruthes that were so many in number are now proued none The controlling of so many aucthorities is found nothing but wrangling The often blaming of diuers interpretations is tried either childishe or wilful ignoraunce And some of his owne Doctors on whome with much boasting he had grounded his priuate Masse in the ende he hathe turned to their owne defence With so ill successe he hath impugned truthe And with so slender proofe he hath defended falshood Of these 225. vntruthes which he hath brought some he saithe may be coloured some be shamelesse lies And in déede his testimonie well applied is true For most of them without shame are impudently gathered Some as he hathe vsed them may bring suspition of ouersight But what they are and howe voide of deserued blame it shall appeare if thou reade this Confutation in the which for thy contentation good Christian Reader I must assure thée that I haue not alleaged one aucthoritie wherein I either abridge the authors wordes or enterlace any other of mine owne either else misconstrue his meaning Only sometime bicause the wryting is tedious I alleage the sense and referre thée vnto the place where thou maist examine the wordes If any one of all the lande of Louanists be able to reproue me I wil not let openly to preache it that I haue offended God giue them and vs bothe grace to consider that it is now no time to dally The matter is not suche that it may abide any wrangling The cause is Gods and he néedeth not to be defended with lies If in his cause we goe about deceite by vttering falshoode or by concealing truthe by making moe distinctions or by framing Latine as we liste God is not mocked How so euer we will paint our doings or what clokes of shame so euer we will vse it is true that the Poete saythe Ille dolum ridens quo vincula nectitis inquit He laughing at oure deceitfulnesse shall aske to what purpose we haue tied suche deuises He is truth and he will be defended by truthe and he hateth all those that doe speake lies Therefore good Christian Reader persuade thy selfe that as we haue our accomptes to make vnto him that iudgeth truely so wittingly and willingly we will speake nothing that shall burden oure owne Consciences before his iudgement seate True it is we be menne and as menne we may be deceiued The Prophet hath pronounced the vniuersall sentence and we be all borne vnder the lawe of it that euery manne is a lier therfore to chalēge vnto my doing any such absolute veritie as though no piece of it might be blamed it wer great arrogācie and extreme folly this is sufficient to the indifferent mā and a full contentation vnto mine owne conscience that the Lord is witnesse I know not of any one vntruth I haue vttred And for this great number wherewith M. Iuel is charged better it had bene for M. Harding to haue made them fewer more it might haue hindred M. Iuels cause To deny that any wher he might be deceiued were to exempt him out of the condition of man But these .225 vntruthes in one article while they must be multiplied M. Harding telleth one many times maketh straunge interpretations diuiseth new distinctions in suche sort that euery man may espie his folly God for his mercyes sake lighten once his heart y t yet again he may sée whether he goeth and leade them the way back◠againe vnto rightuousnesse before whome he hath runne so long towarde the kingdome of iniquitie that in the day of anger when euery one shall giue accompt of his doings we may be all founde together in the way of obedience and by grace receiue that eternal kingdome which is not due vnto our workes Which kingdome God graunt vs through the death and passion of his sonne our sauioure Iesus Christ to whome with the father the holy ghost be al honor and glory world without ende Amen Ierem. 8.9 The wise men as ashamed they