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A88166 A copie of a letter, written by John Lilburne Leut. Collonell. To Mr. William Prinne Esq. (Upon the coming out of his last booke, intituled Truth triumphing over falshood, antiquity over novelty) in which he laies down five propositions, which he desires to discusse with the said Mr. Prinne. Lilburne, John, 1614?-1657. 1645 (1645) Wing L2092; Thomason E24_22; ESTC R21507 5,103 7

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medled with matters of Religion I grant you they have but I demaund of you by what Right or by what Authority out of the Word of God they have so done Hath God the Father or Jesus Christ his Son given them any allowance in thi● Or have they not hereby rather fulfilled the Prophesies of the Scripture which saith Rev. 17.17 that the Kings of the Earth shall give their power unto the Beast till the Word of God be fulfilled which they have done in assisting the Pope to joyne the Ecclesiasticall and Civill State together making the golden Lawes of Christ to depend upon the leaden Lawes of man yea upon such Lawes as was just sutable to their tyrannicall lusts and which might the most advance their wicked ends and designes and in the doing of this they have set up a perfect Antichrist against Gods Christ yea England is not free from this for though King Henry the right did shake of the Popes Supremacy yet by the advice of the Clergie the sworne enemies of Jesus Christ he assumed the same calling himselfe Head in all causes Ecclesiasticall and Civill and so though he jusled out the Pope he set himselfe in the Throne of Christ and his Successours have done the same for opposing of which the Saints that were burnt in Queen Maries dayes have not only smarted but also those that were hanged and murdered in Prisons in Queen Elizabeths dayes and those that were banished and destroyed in King James his dayes and my selfe and many others that have suffvred worse then death in King Charles his dayes and this is the great Contrversi● that God contends with the whole Earth for and for which God will make the greatest of Princes and States to tast a Cup of trembling yea and to drinke the dregs of his fury and wrath for he will give people and Nations for his Saints Esa 43.3.4.14 And if England drinke yet deeper of this Cup amongst other causes they may thanke Mr. Prinne for it who hath incited them to wage war with the King of Saints and his redeemed ones who will dash all the Nations of the Earth in peeces in being revenged of them for that which they hove done unto them already in this particular Rev. 18. ch 19.1.2 For Sir let me tell you it is the incommunicable Prerogative of Jesus Christ alone to be King of his Saints and Law-giver to his Church and people and to raigne in the soules and consciences of his chosen ones it being too high a throne for all the creatures in the world to raigne in and therefore were your eyes but open it would make you quake and tremble to consider what you have done in endeavouring to set the Potentates of the Earth together by the eares with Christ who is to rule all Nations Rev. 12.5 to plucke his Crowne from his head his Scepter out of his hand and his Person out of his Throne of State that his Father hath given him to raigne gloriously in Oh Sir consider the time is not long before Jesus Christ will come againe in glory tryumphantly and say it out of his own mouth before the eyes of the sonnes of men bring those mine enemies before me that will not have me to rule over them that J may slay them Luke 19.17 Sir If your Positions be true that there is no rule left in the world how we may worship God but that Kings and States may set up what Religion● they please or may mould it to the maners of their people 〈◊〉 Queen Mary did justifiably in burning the Saints in her dayes that would not stoope and submit to that Religion she and her Parliament had set up Truly had I not seen your name to your Bookes I should rather have judged them a Papists or a Jesuites then Mr. Prinnes and without doubt the Pope when he sees them will Cannonize you for a Saint for throwing downe his enemie Christ who you say hath been lesse faithfull then Moses and so had need of the Pope or some others to supply what he hath been deficient in Surely you have given away your ears suffered as a busie body in opposing the King and the Prelates without all doubt all is not gold that glisters for were you not a man that had more then truth to looke after namely your owne ends and particular interest which I am af●raid you strive more to set up then a publike good you should rather importuned the Parliament to have continued their favours and respects to that people that cannot prostrate their consciences to mans devises though never so great and famous and who yet with their bodies and estates to the utmost of their power yea and divers of them beyond their abilities have done the Parliament as sinceare upright faithfull and good service as either your selfe or any generation of men in England whatsoever they be then to enforce them to destroy them But truly the Son of God and his saints those beloved ●ewels of his are but a litle beholden to you that will not suffer his ransomsed ones to enjoy the Liberty of their Conscience to serve their Lord and King that hath bought them with his owne blood are you not in this as cruell a Taskmaster as Pharaoh nor to have footing in the Land of their Nativity though Christ himselfe hath given them a true right to all things present in this world and all things in that is to come 1 Cor. 2.21.22.23 and they themselves many thousand of them have endeavoured more then your selfe to redeem their native Countrey from bondage and slavery with their dearest blood And therefore I say the Lord judge betwixt you and us in this particular Sir It may be instead of satisfying my desire you 'll run and complaine to the Parliament and presse them upon their Covenant to take vengance upon me if you doe I weigh it not for I blesse God I am fitted to doe or suffer whatsoever the Parliament shall impose upon me but if you do take these two along with you First That I am not against the Parliaments setting up a S●te-Government for such a Church as they shall thinke fit to make the generality of the Land members of for I for my part leave them to themselves to doe what they shall thinke good so that they leave my Conscien●e free to to the Law and Will of my Lord and King Socondly If you put them in mind of their Covenant tell them I thinke they have sworne to root out all Popery and therefore have lately abolished the Common Prayer that great Idoll but yet have established Tythes c. the very root and support of popery which I humbly conceive is a contradiction to their Covenant and which wil be a greater snaire then the Common Prayer to many of the pretious consciences of Gods people wh●se duty is in my judgement to dye in a prison before they act or stoop unto so dishonourable a thing as this is to their Lord and Master as to maintaine the Blacke-coates with Tythes whom they looke upon as the professed enemies of their Annoynted Christ he that pays Tythes is bound to the whole Law of Tythes in which there was a Lambe to be brought for a Sin-offering which is abolished also he that was to take Tythes was one that was to offer sacrifice dayly for sin which if any do so now it is to deny Christ come in the flesh and to be the alone sacrifice for sin by his death and so overthrow all our comfort joy and hope So desiring to receive your Answer to the things I propound to you I rest LONDON this 7. Jan. 1645. Yours more then you are the Truthes JOHN LILBURNE FINIS
A COPIE OF A LETTER Written by John Lilburne Leut. Collonell To Mr. William Prinne Esq UPON THE COMING OUT OF HIS LAST BOOKE INtituled Truth triumphing over Falslhood Antiquity over Novelty In which he laies down five Propositions which he desires to discusse with the said Mr. Prinne Sir YOU and I have both been Sufferers by the hands of the Prelates the comnon and open Enemies of Christ● Kingdome and the eyes of the people of God are therefore the more upon us and are subject with lesse jealousie to receive those things that come from us for truth not immitating the noble Bereans who dayly searched the Scripture to see whether those things they heard were according thereunto or no Acts 17.11 the Law and the Testimony of Christ being the str●ight Rule by which we are to walke espeacially in matters of worship and whosoever he be that practices and speakes not according to this Rule it is because there is no light of truth in him Esa 8.20 I have seen some of your late writings which a little diving into I have found them full of bitter and unsavoury Language against the poore Saints of God and the unspotted wais of Jesus Christ and finding your Confidence very great but your Arguments very weake and uns●und having received a Talent from the Lord I conceived my selfe bound in Conscience to imploy it and lay it out for my Ma●ers best advantage and I was determined some weekes since to have writ you a few lines in a publique way and to have told you you erre not knowing the Scriptures Math. 22.29 but being that you and the Blacke-Coate in the Synod have not dealt fairly with your Antagonists in stopping the Presse against us while things are in debate yea robbing us of our Liberty as we are Subjects in time of freedome when the Parliament is sitting who are sufficiently able to punish that man whatsoever he be that shall abuse his penne So that whill we are with the hazard of our dearest lives fighting for the Subjects Liberty we are brought into Egiptian bonds in this and other particulars by the Blacke-Coates who I am affraid will prove more cruell Task-masters then their dear fathers the Bishops who Cowardly sit at home in my apprehension for no other end but to breed faction and division amongst the well affected to the Parliament promoting thereby their owne interest which is Lazines Pride Covetousnes and Domination endevouring to lay lower then the dust a generation of men whom they falsely call Sectaryes that have in the uprightnesse of their hearts without Syodianlike ends ventred all they have in the world for the good of the Parliament and the Common-wealth of England and who may bid defiance to all their Adversaries that brand them with unfaithfulnes so that by mean● of which I haue not been able that way yet to accomplish my earnest desire and truly it argues no manhood nor valour in you nor the Blacke-Coates by force to throw us downe and ty our hands then to fall upon us to beat and buffet us for if you had not beene men that had been affraid of your cause you would have been willing to have fought and contended with us upon even ground and equall termes namely that the Presse might be as open for us as for you and as it was at the beginning of this Parliament which I conceive the Parliament did of purpose that so the freeborne English Subjects might enjoy their Liberty and Priviledge which the Bishops had learned of the Spanish Inquisition to rob them of by looking it up under the Key of an Imrpimatur in whose tyrannicall steps the Synod treades so that you and they thinke you may raile at us own privilegio and ranke us amongst the worst and basest of men as rooters up of Parliaments and disturbers of States and Common welthes and so thinke to carry it away without controule but it may be you will be mistaken for though wee cannot print so fast as you we can speake and lay downe as strong Arguments for our selves as you can for your selves and therefore being desirous to try a fall with you though one of your freinds not long since told me there was as great disproportion betwixt you and me to write upon controverting the things of God as there is betwixt a tall Ceder and a litle shrub unto which I replyed goe you and tell the tall Ceder the litle Shrub will have about with him And therefore that I may be as good as my word I send you these ensuing Propositions upon which I will dispute with you hand to hand before any Auditory in and about the City of London when and where you will chuse giving me foure or five dayes warning before hand First That the Ordinances Lawes Rights and Ceremonies of the Church of the Jewes were types and figures which were only to last and endure till the coming of Christ which he by his death did abolish Gen. 49.10 John 19.30 Acts 15.24.29 21.21 28. Heb. 7.11 12. 10.1 and he himselfe with his Institutions in the New Testament are the Antitypes of them Acts 3.22 Heb. 1.8 6.20 7.17.18.19 8.1 2.6 9.11.12 Secondly That Jesus Christ being appoynted by God his Father to be Mediatour hath a Kingdome given unto him Dan. 2.13.14 Mat. 2.2 28.18 Luke 1.32.33 Heb. 1.8 which he hath erected and set vp in the world amongst his Saints where visibly and spiritually he governeth ruleth and dwelleth Psal 2.6.22.27.28 and 46.4 and 48.1 c. 132.13 14. Esa 6.9 7. 33.23 and according to that trust the Father hath reposed in him Acts 3.22.23 he hath been faithfull to every thing requred of him Heb. 3.25 compared with Exod. 39.43 and unto this his visible Kingdome by his last Will and Testament he hath bequeathed perfect and compleate Lawes which are unalterable and unchangable in all times ages and places by any of the sonnes of men Acts 1.3 2 Thes 2.15 1 Tim. 6.13.14.20 2 Tim 3.15.16.17 Heb. 10.28.29 12 25. Thirdly that the matter forme Lawes Worship Ordinances and Administrations of this Kingdome are not carnall nor of this world but all and every one of them spirituall John 4.22.23 18.36 Act. 1.15 ● 41.47 11.23.24 Rom. 1.7 1 Cor. 1.2 ch 5 2 Cor. 2.6.7.8 Fourthly that no Parliament Councell Synod Emperor King nor Majestrate hath any spirituall Authority or jurisdiction over this Kingdome or the Subjects thereof Mat. 20.25.27 1 Cor. 4.5 Ephes 1.21.22 23. and 5.24.25 Col. 4.17 1 Pet. 6.5.3 Rev. 17.17 Fiftly that to persecute for conscience is not of nor from God but of and from the Divell and Antichrist Esa 2.3.4 11.6 7 9. Micah 4.2.3 Luke 9.54.55 2 Cor. 10.4 1 Tim. 1.20 Rev. 13.2.4.15 16.17 Sir In your last Booke that you put out you spend a great deale of paines in citing old rusty Authours to prove that Kings Councels Synods and States have for so many hundred yeares