For then they coulde not bee blamed Zelot Howe the Diuel hath muffled you too keepe yee from seeyng the daunger of eternall damnation which ye are in haue yee neuer hearde that whiche GOD sayth by Moses which S. Paule citeth in the 3. Chap. to the Galath Cursed is euery one whiche abydeth not in all thinges which are written in the booke of the law for to doe them by which yee may see that God with his own mouth doth lay his curse which is daÌ„natioÌ„ vppon euery one which doth breake neuer so litle of the law Ath. GOD is mercifull hee is not so senere as you woulde make him for to bee Zelot Doe ye not thinke that he is a iust and a true God Ath. I must needes thinke so Zelot Do ye thinke that when he hath vttered his iustice that he can by his mercy goe from it and so be sound vn true Nay there bee many of yee which in all thinges crie God is mercifull GOD is mercifull which neuer consider with what conditions GOD hath promised mercy neyther how it may stand with his iustice and trueth ye thinke GOD offereth mercy without exception Ath. If God bee not mercifull wee are but in an euill case Zelot He is a most mercifull and gratious God but yet not vnto any but suche as he hath promised mercy Howe many thousandd there be which are caried headlong to hell with this error which not knowing the iustice and truth of GOD doe blesse them selues where God hath accursed them For these thinges which you haue now vâ—tered are euen of the principall reasons which Satan doth seduce men withall and holde them from the truth They thinke thus I do what I can God hath made me able to doe no better God is mercifull they know not this that God made vs able in our first creation to keepe and obey his will wholly and that although we can now keepe no part of it yet he may iustly accurse and condemne vs vnto eternall fire for transgressing any part of it ye are not as he made ye and therfore ye deceiue your selfe when yee thinke that he requireth no more at your handes then ye are now able for to doe Ye deceiue your selfe when ye think that GOD can be mercifull vnto ye and you liue without repentance Ath. You woulde make a man dispaire if ye would put him out of hope in the mercie of God Zelot I would not bring ye out of hope in the mercy of God but I would bring ye ouâ— of your vaine hope which is not that which wil saue ye but doth harden and blind ye vnto damnation Ath. How can a mans hope and fayth hi God haâ—â—en and blinde him vnto damnation Now a dayes there is nothing among many of ye but damnation damnation It is well that God hath not giuen you power for to condemne 〈…〉 Zelot If it were a true fayth it must needes 〈…〉 them but being a faith which is blinde it blindeth those which haue it and hard â—â—â—h then â—in their sinnes and keepeth them from the seeking after the knowledge of Gods will and stayeth them from returning home vnto God by true repentance because it breadeth this in the hearts of men to thinke and to say we are welynough we 〈…〉 God◠〈…〉 we beleeue as well as the best of them all when as if they were riddâ— out of this notable snare of the. Deuil and brought for to see the wrath of GOD bent against them they woulde then be glad with feare and trembling to seeke after the Lorde in his woorde and to bee afraide to committe those thinges whiche might displease him Where as nowe a man mayâ— crye vntill he rende his throate ag 〈…〉 tâ—â—ir contempt of the Lordes word and agaynst their fowle sinnes before hee iâ— an mooue them at all and why because the deuill hath gotten them within this fortresse GOD is merciful God is merciful And for your other foolish words that there is now nothing but damnation damnation Do ye thinke that men are euer the sooner cast into damnation because they are told of the great danger thereof Ath. I pray yeâ— let me see what good can come thereof Zelot If I shoulde meeâ—e ye by the way and perceiue that yee were going into the way where ye shoulde light among theeues which would murther yee which were most profitable for you if I should tell yee thus ye bee well yee be well or to shewe yee that yee bee in daunger of your life if yee passe that way Ath. That were a wicked part for to let a man goe where he shoulde loose his life and not for to tell him Zelot Wherefore doe yee not see then that those which doe shew ye the daunger of damnation doe it for your profit as well as they which teach ye to auoyde some outwarde daunger If a man tell ye thus goe not that way ye wil be robbed ye wil be killed doth it follow that he will robbe or kill ye because ye say men now vtter damnation and that it is well they haue not power too condemne men And know this for certaintie that if God in his woorde doe threaten damnation and the preacher doe not shewe it to the people and teach them howe to auoide the same their blood shall be required at his hande But let vs come backe againe to the former matter to see howe well yee vnderstand your x commaundements I would knowe this of yee whether it be good for men to knowe the lawe seeing it doeth nothing but curse and condemne vs if there were no lawe there coulde be no sinne I speake both of the lawe of nature and of the lawe written and if there were no sinne there coulde bee no condemnation For this cause the lawe is called the ministerie of death and condemnation and it is called the letter which killeth 2. Corinth 3. Seeing it doeth woorke all this what profite can it bring for to know it or why should it be preached Ath. I pray ye tell me you for I am vnlearned and you are learned If it bee as you say I thinke it were good not to preach it if it doe condemne vs. Zelot What a shame is it that a man of your age shoulde haue so little skill as not to knowe to what purpose the lawe serueth It is a token ye vnderstande your x. commaundements well I will tell yee when a man knoweeth the lawe it doeth bring him to see that he is altogether corrupted with sinne both in bodie and soule that he is vnder Gods heauie indignation and 〈…〉 and that in himselfe there is no helpe at all it casteth him into feare and terrour of Gods iudgementes and so inforceth him to seeke for remedie in Christe whom before he did not greatly seeke after For looke how a man which doth not thinke himselfe sicke nor in daunger of sicknesse careth not for a Phisition so he which doeth not knowe his damnable estate by
me nor that I may not agree with them and although I be not able to become perfect yet with al the might I can I straine and breath to come as nigh perfection as I can my desire is good to reach it and although I find that I come many degrees short yet I approche nearer and nearer This is true repentance this is that which S. Paule setteth forth in himselfe Rom. 7. Philip. 3. With this I know God is pleased without this there caÌ„not be any seruice done to God Ath. I like not when men will spye a mote in another mans eye Zelot Our Sauiour Christe doeth not forbid to espie a mote in an other mans eye for we are commaunded to admonish one an other what soeuer it bee wherein we doe amisse but such as you which can not abyde to be admonished doe euer alleadge that saying of Christe as though hee had spoken it vnto this ende that one should not admonish an other It is a â—oule hypocrisie for a man to be curious in reproouing small faultes in other and make no conscience of great and foule vices in him selfe Euerie man ought to looke vnto himselfe and euery man is bound by the woorde of God and charitie to looke vnto others and to conuert them from their sinnes if they can To conuert a sinner from going astray and to saue a soule from death As S. Iames speaketh Chap. 5. vers 20. And so to couer a multitude of sinnes is a blessed thing and ought to moue men with diligence to vse charitable admonition Ath. If they woulde doe it in charitie I could like of it but men haue no loue they doe it because they are precise and captious Zelot Let a man see yee commit any foule crime and reproue yee your aunswere is by and by yee may not iudge when as the matter is plaine and doth iudge it selfe Now when a man doth admonishe you according as God commaundeth yee are bolde with the same mouth which saide ye ought not to iudge for to iudge him affirming that he doth it of a captious and quarrelling minde the thing being so exceeding good of it selfe who made you able for to see into the heart of a man and to find that he doth it not well You are those of whom the Prophet speaketh Woe be vnto those which call good euill and euill good If he be a man spotted with vices himselfe doth reprooue another not caring for to amende ye may boldly say he doth it of an euill minde for can he be charitable vnto other men to seeke their conuersion and not to bee charitable vnto himselfe to seeke his owne saluation Or can he hate vngodlinesse in other and not hate it in himselfe Ath. Well the best of vs all may bee amended wée haue all infirmittes what would yée haue more then this at the last for to call for mercy If a man be sorie and aske God forgiuenes is hée not euen as well as they which are the most precise the mercie of GOD must saue all and what would yée haue a man care for more then to bée saued I praye God I may haue time to repent in the ende Zelot Here is good stuffe here is sound diuinitie I may well terme this reason euen the porter of hell for it openeth euen the widest gate that a thousande may goe in on a ranke This is true that the best of vs all may be amended and that we haue all infirmities but yee doe wickedly applye it for when yee should reason thus the best may be ameded the most holy are spotted and therefore as Saint Paule doth teach they must indeuour for to proceede forwarde for the woorde of God willeth men to striue and contend euen against all vncleanesse and neuer to cease but to come as nigh perfection as is possible But you reason quite contrary that because the best are sinners therefore men are to make small account to amende Ye should think thus the most godly haue neede to sorrowe and mourne and proceede in repentaunce therefore howe much neede haue suche as are grosse sinners For our Sauiour Christ doth shew Iohn 8. That whosoeuer committeth sinne is the seruaunt of sinne Nowe so long as a man is the seruaunt of sinne so long is hee not the seruant of God for no man can serue two so contrary masters Saint Iohn sayeth he that committeth sinne is of the Diuell Where learned yee this that a man may continue in his vices all his life and at the last call for mercy God commaundeth men to repent speedely and not to put of from day to day Hee threatneth exceeding sharpely in the first Chapter of the Prouerbs that when hee hath called and cryed vnto men for to returne from their euill waies and they haue refused that at the last they shall call and not be hearde hee will laugh when their destruction commeth vppon them they shall seeke him but not finde him Doe you thinke that when God hath called and wee refuse that we shall not call and he refuse Ath. The scripture sayth that what time soeuer a sinner doth repente him of his sinne God will forgiue him Zelot If the scripture speake any thing to the comfort of the sorowfull heart the Deuill doth teache the impenitent for to abuse it to their hardening It is most true that at what time soeuer a sinner doth repent his sinnes are all forgiuen but is it in a mans choise for to repent when hee will can hee take a newe heart when it doth please him can he haue the newe birth and a ryght spirite when he will It is God which doth create a man a new or maketh him a new creature in Christ when it pleaseth him A man needeth not for to care for any thing but to be saued but that is not so easie a matter as men thinke Striue for to enter in at the straight gate sayth Christ for manye shall striue and shall not enter The waie is narowe and the gate is straight whiche leadeth vnto life and fewe there bee which find it and if this be true whiche you say that a man may liue in sinne all his life and at the last be saued euen for vtteling a fewe wordes Then the way is broad and easie who cannot finde it who almost doeth not walke in it But alas it is a broken staffe whiche men doe leane vnto God is verie mercifull but not to those which despise his Gospell for vengeance belongeth vnto such it is vnpossible sayth the holy Ghost Hebr. 2. that suche shoulde escape And although ye haue neuer so long time to repent if God doe not worke it in yee you shall die in that blindnesse and hardnesse of heart in whiche yee haue liued wee must seeke in our life time to bee begotten by the worde for the scripture saith God doth beget his children by that Ath. Shall not man hope for to repent at the last Zelot Marke what repentance
true measure when ye doe measure it after the rule of a man Ye doe not knowe wherefore there is eternall death threatned against euerie small sinne yee maruell at that because yee are blinde and cannot iudge howe great he is whose will is disobeyed Let me set it before ye Doe ye not suppose that if one of your degree shoulde say some thing against yee that were a reproch as for example call ye knaue were it not an offence Ath. I thinke I may well say hee doth offende for he ought not to deale so with his neighbour Zelot Then hee is worthie some rebuke for his euil tongue Ath. Yea and to confesse his faulte also Zelot What if he shoulde giue such language to a Iustice of peace or to some inferiour Magistrate Ye will confesse the fault is greater because it is against a higher person Ath. No doubt the fault should be greater and hée were woorthie to sit by the héeleâ— for it Zelot What if he shoulde doe it to a noble man as one of the chiefe Counsellours of the Prince were it not then muche greater Ath. I must needes confesse so and such a villaine were woorthie for to lose his â—ares Zelot What if hee should doe it vnto a Prince Ath. Hée were worthie then for to lose his life Zelot Doe ye not knowe that GOD is in an infinite degree aboue Princes they are but dust before him Ath. I know that well enough Zelot Wherefore haue yee not the reason then for to consider that those sinnes which seeme to bee verie small are exceeding great because they bee done against his infinite Maiestie the ignorance of this point causeth manye men for to make but alight account of diuers sinnes and euen to laugh at them likewise to mocke at those whiche make conscience of them counting them ouer precise and nice Such men doe not knowe the Lorde aright in his most high maiestie They knowe not the waightinesse of his lawe euen in the leaste point in it And it is ouer childishe whiche they obiect against the godlye haue not you infirmities are you not men What woulde they gather hereby that because men haue infirmities therefore they may not reproue such as wilfully and carelesly offende The rest of your speech is a meere slaunder a deuice whiche the Deuill hath founde out for to shame true godlinesse For let a man haue but the tenth part of the zeale whiche the woorde of God requireth or neuer so litle a sparke of indeuour for to walke vprightly and he shall haue it castin his teeth that hee thinketh him selfe halfe a God and taketh him selfe to be as holy as an Angell Ath. A number doe so indeede or else they would not bee so readie for to checke euerie man and estéeme so well of them selues Zelot Doeth that bone sticke in your throte still take heede that it doe not choke yee Yee take it for a sore checke when any doth refuse to take part with you in your wickednesse following the counsell of Saint Paule when he sayth haue no fellowship with the vnfruitefull woorkes of darkenesse but rather reprooue them Light is come into the worlde and men loue darkenesse more then light because their woorkes bee euill Howe well they esteeme of them selues you can not tell this is most certaine that although a godlie manne hath nothing of his owne for to boast of because it is the grace of the Lorde whiche hathe putte the difference yet yee may well thinke better of him selfe then of the wicked And such as haue no regard to serue God but in a fewe wordes Ath. Doe yée thinke that there be none which are ouer precise which woulde séeme for to be so holy and yet are not Zelot The Diuell is a cunning woorkeman when he seeketh for to bring the trueth into discredite he can play on both hands hee can deceiue on euery side And therefore he hath some vaine and curious braines which are ouer precise in thinges whiche are no sinne passing by foule and great sinnes in themselues which is a great vanitie and vnder colour of godly zeale which they would seeme for to haue they couer their bitternesse euen of wormewood and Gall which vncharitablie sometimes they caste foorth vppon such as are more Godly then them selues But this ought not for to bee any discredite vnto suche as are zealous and earnest against those thinges whiche are vices in deede although they seeme for to bee neuer so small as for example when one doth sweare as you did by his faith or by bread or fire tell him of it what is his answere ye are ouer precise I meane no hurte neither to God nor men I speake earnestly I doe not lie If it bee a sinne it is but a small sinne But see how grosse an excuse this is he breaketh the commaundement of God and yet he meaneth no hurt Christ our great teacher doth straightly vrge it and yet hee saith it is but a small sinne a thing not to be regarded How much dishonour is this to our heauenly Master to say that hee taught things so small and trifling that they are not to be regarded Ath. Well it is happie that we shalbe saued by faith in Christ although we bée sinnefull hee hath shead his blood for vs I lookefor to be saued by him what would yée haue more Zelot It is happie in deede for those which haue faith for they are cleansed from their sinnes But such as you seeke no more but to make the death of Christe as an easie score to set all vppon for yee are like to the man which thinking that hee should haue all of his hostis for scoring vp tooke very liberally ye thinke the reckoning is now so easie that ye may set cocke a howpe all is paide for But if I shoulde trie your faith by the woorde ye should see that yee haue little enough and therefore your score will faile in the end and grow to a greater payment then ye suppose Ath. Whatsoeuer you say yée shal neuer driue mee from beléeuing in Christ nor all the sort of yee Zelot I would not for tenne thousande worldes be the man which should driue any one from the faith in Christe I doe seeke to bring ye vnto the faith in Christ Ath. Yee may kéepe such seeking to your selfe and let me alone I beléeue as well as you take care for your selfe you shall not answere for me Zelot Nowe ye are sure I trowe for this night ye haue stopped my mouth and giuen me a bone to gnawe vpon But I pray ye shall not I answeare for you in no respect What if I see ye are blinde and ready for to fall into the pit of eternall destruction and will not put foorth my hande for to succour ye is it not to be laid vnto my charge that I wanted loue Therefore I can easily pull your bridle out of my mouth and bee so bold as for to meddle with ye wee
will a little trie because ye bragge so stoutly howe well yee beleeue Ye beleeue Christ was crucified and suffred vpon the Crosse but are yee able for to prooue that yee beleeue in Christ crucified Ath. I say I doe are you able for to disprooue me Zelot Sinne is not slaine in ye therfore ye do not Ath. Howe prooue yée that sinne is not slaine in mee Zelot Because it doth raigne in ye therfore it is aliue Ath. I knowe not what yee meane by that Zelot Yee are ledde by sinne ye delight in it ye haue not mortified the lusts and concupiscences of the same And therefore yee haue not learned Christ as S. Paule speaketh Ephesians 4. Ye haue not put of the old man and put on the new man The death and passion of Christ hath not slaine sinne in yee for to beleeue in Christ crucified is for to be crucified with him as the Apostles doe teach in sundry places The reason is this Christe was not crucified for to slay sinne in him self for he had none but in his members which are ioyned and knit vnto him by faith in them the force power of his death doth shew it selfe nowe he which hath not this worke of the death of Christ in him that hee feeleth himselfe crucified concerning the body of sinne his faith in the passion of Christ is but a dead faith and cannot saue him This is the cause why S. Paule faith Rom. 8. That those which are in Christ walke not after the fleshe but after the spirite S. Iohn saith 1. Epistle cha 3. Ye know that he was made manifest to take away our sinnes in him was no sinne Whosoeuer abideth in him sinneth not he that sinneth hath not seene him nor knowne him Ath. Then by that reason yee woulde prooue that all that beleeue in Christ are perfect without sinne I thinke all are sinners Zelot Whosoeuer is borne of God sinneth not 1. Iohn 3. 9. Ath. Is there any man which can saye that hee is without sinne Zelot Not one which liueth in this flesh Ath. Then yee are contrarie vnto your selfe for euen nowe yee sayde That whosoeuer abideth in Christ sinneth not and hée which is borne of God sinneth not and now ye confesse that all are sinners so long as they liue Zelot I am not contrarie vnto my selfe but your blindnesse causeth ye for to thinke so Looke in the Epistle to the Romaines Chapter 7. and there ye shall find how S. Paule coupleth both these things together in himselfe which you iudge to bee so coutrary that by no meanes they may be founde in one man together at one time He confesseth that there was a lawe in his members rebelling against the law of his mind and leading him captiue to the law of sinne And yet a litle before in the same Chapter hee saieth That he did not commit the euill but sinne which dwelt in him The reason which he maketh is that hee did consent vnto the law and would haue doone the good but he did the euill which he hated To make the matter plaine thus it is Saint Paule was regenerate but yet not in full perfection for the remnaunt of sinne did abide in him that which the part regenerate did or coueted to doe or consented vnto that he saith he did and that which the corruption which did still remaine in him forced him for to doe that he saith he did not but sinne which dwelled in him Hee doth esteeme himselfe in the part regenerate he counteth the remnaunts of the old man to be but as excrements or as a dead carion which did abide in him and anoy him His delight and desire was vppon the good he hated the euill and therefore when he did sinne because it was against his consent and against his will it was no obedience which hee gaue vnto it he did not therefore serue sinne neyther did sin raygne ouer him but exercise a certayne â—iranny ouer him which he coulde not speake of Ath. I know not what yée meane when yée haue saide what yée can all must bee sinners Zelot Yee may very easily perswade me to beleeue that ye know not what I meane If your fiue wits were fifteene they woulde helpe nothing in this case Because ye know not what this meaneth yee know not what faith in Christ crucifyed meaneth ye know not what repentaunce meaneth yee can see no difference of sinners all are sinners say you and the death of Christ is that whiche saueth not considering that the death of Christ first killeth those whom it maketh aliue For this cause men are greatlye ouershot oftentimes when they come vnto a sicke man they thinke if he say I beleeue Christe died for my sinnes and shed his blood for me that then all is aswell as may be If it were faith in deed in the blood of Christ they must needes be in good case for al that beleeue in him shalbe saued But they stay vpon a bare fantasie which is a dead weak faith not making them to feele the power of the death of Christe Ignoraunce is so deepely setled in mens mindes that let a man be neuer so wicked neuer so far from true knowledge of God if he can make but some general coÌ„fession they neuer looke further And because they see almost all howesoeuer they liue find this it maketh them also to be carelesse and neuer for to thinke of the newe birth of which Christe speaketh when he sayeth vnto Nicodemus except a man be borne againe he cannot see the kingdome of God This newe byrth is shut out at the doores therefore no doubt God doth shutte them out of his kingdome which make no account of it Ath. Make your selfe neuer so skilfull yet yée cannot tell which man God saueth and which he condemneth Zelot It is not the will of God that wee should take vpon vs for to pronounce vppon any man and to say he is damned because we must leaue the secrete counsell of God vnto himselfe who is not bounde vnto vs to giue any account of his doings But I pray yee let vs a litle consider howe this headlesse bolte of yours is shotte foorth against true godlynesse Thus you reason no man can tell who are saued and who are damned therefore we are not for to care for tryall of our faith and repentance and that therfore the rules which are giuen in the word of God in these points are nothing worth Euery man may searche and know in him selfe whether he be in good case or not and we ought euery one for to trie our selues by that whiche the woord teacheth so plentifully I woulde wishe yee to consider what the cause is why the greatest multitude goe to destruction euen because they knowe not these thinges therefore see not the great danger which they be in but can boldly beare themselues in haÌ„d that they shall doe well enough Manye doe laugh euen in the middest of destruction I meane