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A91473 Independency accused by nine severall arguments: written by a godly learned minister, to a member of Mr. John Goodwins congregation, and acquitted by severall replyes to the said arguments by a member of the same church. In both which, sweetnesse of spirit, and soundnesse of arguments have been endeavoured. Published according to order. I. P. 1645 (1645) Wing P53A; Thomason E296_16; ESTC R200209 27,998 39

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into great tribulation and will kill her and her children with death I will not suffer her I will not faile in doing justice upon her and her children as you sinfully have done Church-censure only would not have bindered her from teaching but shee was not to have been suffered to teach therefore a further power ought to have come in for the suppression of her and her followers REPLY FIrst I humbly conceive that Church-censures if duly and timely performed would have prevented this reproofe both to the one Church and the other and the neglect hereof or which is worse the not suppressing these false doctrines by a powerfull preaching against the same was the ground of these sharp and bitter reproofs and my Reason is this it is evident they had not the help of the Magistrate therein for in respect of the politicall state it is said of the Church of Pergamus that shee dwelt where Satan had his seat or throne and where Antipas Gods faithfull servant suffered martyrdome so that they had no help in that respect from the Magistrate and if so I suppose you will not say the Church could imprison banish c. so that I presume their neglect must be of something which was in the power of the Church And Secondly whereas you say Church-censures would not have hindered these proceedings in the Church I humbly conceive the contrary because if the Church officers and members had examined these doctrines as they ought and upon the finding of them erronious had proceeded to censure them in case they would not forbeare the promulgation thereof from that time the Church was not to permit them to preach any more amongst them neither should they give them any more hearing Thirdly If a means sanctified by God to an end do not alwayes effect it wee may not therefore devise another Magistracy doth not suppresse all vice ARGUMENT VII MOst evident it is that the civill Magistrate in the Commonwealth of Israel was supreme in things Ecclesiastic ill 1 Chro. 15. David assembles all Israel to Jerusalem gives the Priests and Levites their charge orders the things of the Ark of God vers 1. to 18. 2 Chron. 15. It s said King Asa took courage and put away the abominable Idols and renewed the Altar of the Lord and made a Covenant and whosoever would not seek the Lord God of Israel should be put to death whether great or small man or woman Now let it be showne where God took this power from the civill Magistrate under the new Testament why the Magistrate has not as much power or the same power in matters Ecclesiasticall as then hee had 'T is true the Apostles were very silent and close in giving the civill Magistrate his just power in things spirituall but I conceive this closeness of theirs was their prudence and that in these two respects 1. There was no Magistrate then but Heathonish or Jewish and so understood not Gods will in his worship and so had any thing been commanded it had been but a oarnall commandement humane which Christians must have refused and therefore 't was not their wisdome to speak or write much to this point lest it had proved a snare 2. Had they spoken much of a Christian Magistrate that should have power in things civill and Ecclesiasticall and be able to defend Christianity against all it's enemies this would have bred jealousies in the Roman State and Christian Churches would have been looked upon as a conspiring trayterous generation and persecutions would have soon been raised up against them It was the Apostles wisdome to keep Cesars head free from jealousies that so the Churches might enjoy Christ and their consciences the better therefore they spake so little of the Christian Magistrate in things civill and Ecclesiasticall well knowing that after-ages would not be at a losse or stand in this point but might look upon the examples of the godly Kings of Israel for their imitation never being repealed and in David Josiah Asa might see what was their right and just power in matters both of Church and State REPLY FIrst it is not to be denyed but that the civill Magistrates in the Commonwealth of Israel were supreme in things Ecclesiasticall but upon such grounds and reasons as were peculiar unto them and therefore not presidentiall for Christian Magistrates under the Gospel except upon the same or the like grounds For First the godly Kings of Israel and Judah were types of Christ thus David whom you instance it is said of him Psal 75.3 The earth and all the inhabitants thereof are dissolved I beare up the pillars therof which is true only of Jesus Christ the antitype who laid the foundations of the earth Heb. 1.10 and upholdeth all things by the word of his power vers 3. Now when the antitype is come into the world Jesus Christ in the room of his father David the law henceforth is to proceed from his lips and the government is to be upon his shoulders and of his Kingdome there shall be no end Isa 9.6 7. So Moses was a chief magistrate unto Israel unto whom they were to hearken untill Christ whom he did typifie was come and of him he saith himself Deuter. 18.15 A Prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you like unto me him shall you heare in all things whatsoever hee shall say unto you And it shall come to passe that whosoever shall not heare that Prophet that soul shall be destroyed from among the people Acts 3.22 23. The Kings of Israel and Judah whom you mention are types of Christs kingly office Christ therefore being come the types are gone for though kings of Commonwealths may be of a morall consideration and so perpetuall yet kings as the head of the Church in things Ecelesiasticall were types and therefore abolished and by the same argument as you will maintain the power of Christian kings over the Churches of God in things meerly Ecclesiasticall from the examples of the kings of Israel and Judah who were types of Christ by the same arguments may the Pope maintain a chief Priesthood under the Gospel after the example of Aaron and the rest of that order successively Secondly the godly kings of Israel and Judah were directed by the infallible mouth of God and guidance of his Spirit even in these Ecclesiasticall businesses and thus David whom you in stance to give the Priests and Levites their charge 1 Chron. 15. if you look into 1 Chron. 28.12 he had his direction from the Spirit of God and vers 19. David professeth that the Lord made him understand all the work of this pattern When you can prove such an infallible guidance and direction by the Spirit of God in matters of Church-government to be the portion of Christian kings under the Gospel there may be some colour in this argument Thirdly The kings of Israel were Elders of one ministeriall congregation for the whole Church and State were so as is
before Sadduces Pharisees and severall other sorts were permitted neither do I remember where they were compelled against their judgements either in matter of Profession or Practice except as being members of that Church to the main doctrines worship and government expressed in the Word and surely there is far more and better reasons for the toleration and permission of the Independent then can be given for the toleration of such persons as the Jewes did tolerate for these agree with Presbyterians in the main grounds of Religion and principles of the Gospel these are confest by their Brethren to be holy godly and learned and of singular use and benefit both in Church and Commonwealth c. and the toleration of none others are pleaded for in Mr. Goodwins Theomachia from that Sermon which you mention But wee will not stand on this particular because it may be one of the corruptions of those times to suffer such Sects especially the Sadduces who though for reasons not reproved by our Saviour as some other corruptions were not mentioned by him Wee have said enough before to this Argument As for those Doctrines which you say you would raise from that Text if you were to preach upon it I conceive the two first you mention are indeed very naturall but how you will draw the third from thence as naturall from that Text I cannot see but it would be a digression for mee to meddle with that and therefore I leave it to your own further consideration ARGUMENT IX I Desire to know whether that law Deut. 13. of putting a false Prophet to death or any one that should entice men from the Way of the true God there be not morall equity in it and therefore binde the Magistrate and Chuches of God to the end of the world Calvin and the Church vf Geneva burnt a blasphemer they looked upon the morall equity of that law Levit. 24.16 He that blasphemeth the name of the Lord shall surely be put to death all the Congregation shall stone him Why should not Christians be as tender of the name of God as the Jewes were Is not his name as great and glorious that it may be more securely blasphemed now then it might then But a Presbyterian president will have but little authority with Congregationall Churches therefore I desire that Mr. Cotton one of your own upon whose learning and judgement the wel-willer to Mr. Prynne hee that put forth the first answer to his twelve Queries would have men much to rely may be heard speak in the point in his book entituled Powring out the seven Vials on Rev. 16.4 5 6 7. Verses His very doctrine is this Upon the discovery of the deadly corruption of the Sea of Rome it was a righteous judgement of God and such as argued him unchangeable ever like himselfe that the Priests and Jesuits who carryed that Religion up and down the Nations should be adjudged or condemned to a bloody death His meaning is evidently this not because enemies to the civill State but because they carryed Ordinances Doctrines up and down the world which were no better then the blood of a dead man and every soule that drank of them died therefore they themselves must drink blood Within a few lines after his doctrine he quotes Zach. 13.2 3. spealing of the times under the Gospel 't is cleer from the first verse and so doth Mr. Thomas Goodwin interpret it in his triall of the growth of Grace God will out off the false Prophet and if any false Prophet shall arise his Father and Mother shall thrust him therow because hee speaks lies in the name of the God of truth be shall not live Vpon which Text hee thus glosses It is not spoken of his typicall death i of his death by Church-censure or banishment which have a kinde of death in them but of such a death as that he was not worthy to live because he cast a lie upon the God of Truth the Oracle of Truth In his first Reasons of his point he affirms that no Magistrate ought to have put Paul to death for his errours and blasphemies because be did all ignorantly 1 Tim. 1.14 had the truth been made known to him hee would not have done as hee did but such as blaspheme and teach errours wilfully after admonition twice or thrice the glorious light of the Gospel shining round about them those hee affirms ought to be looked upon with another eye ought to drink blood His first objection is this In the new Testament we must look for a spirituall death i Church-censure only He answers his Text is in the new Testament not in the old the new Testament sayes such are worthy to drink the blood of their own hearts the holy Ghost sayes hee will have it true according to the Letter and further answers that 't was one of Moses his morall lawes of perpetuall equity thrusting men away from God is as odious now as then In his fifth Vse he has these very words Heresie is no more pleasing to him nor blasphemie nor seducing nor to change the Way of Gods worship and to draw men to Wayes wherein they cannot enjoy God in peace murther of soules is no more welcome to God now then of old and therefore if there were a law to punish such with capitall punishment it is a like justice in God to enjoyn such lawes in every Christian Commonwealth His second Objection is this Conscience must not be forced men must not be put to death for their conscience Hee answers Heretiques were as conscionable in the old Testament as now and if any man have a conscience to turn men from God God would have men have as much conscience to cut them off glossing upon Tit. 3. 10 11. thus He that will not be admonished is rejected given up to the civil Magistrate to be punished or put to death not for his conscience but because hee sins against his conscience the cleere shining light of the Gospel Whereupon I thinke it followes that any errour whatsoever though not fundamentall if it be wilfully held and taught against instructions and admonitions especially if it make Sects and Factions let them be never so conscionable in their Wayes professe never so much of God to be in them the Magistrate may and ought to punish them according to the nature of their errours and their mouths must be stopped that their teaching do no more subvert REPLY FIrst if that law Deut. 13. of putting a false Prophet to death or any one that shall entice men from the true God be morall equity and still binding the Magistrates and Churches of God unto the end of the world is to be understood as it there followes of inducing to Idolatry wherein notwithstanding there is something peculiar to that nation as in the 15th verse of that Chapter If a City should turn away from the true God to serve other gods that they shauld smite the inhabitants thereof and the