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A78137 A reply to the frivolous and impertinent ansvver of R.B. to the discourse of P.B. In which discourse is shewed, that the baptisme in the defection of Antichrist, is the ordinance of God, notwithstanding the corruptions that attend the same, and that the baptisme of infants is lawfull, both which are vindicated from the exceptions of R.B. and further cleared by the same authour. There is also a reply, in way of answer to some exceptions of E.B. against the same. Barbon, Praisegod, 1596?-1679. 1643 (1643) Wing B755; Thomason E96_20; ESTC R5151 48,062 73

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Christ and by him rather in his birth and comming into the world then by his death and leaving the world Gala. 3. 17. But not to wade in new things I further say that that Covenant Gen. 17. was made with Abraham and his seed the Church The Testament by Moses was made with the same people old and young The new Testament confirmed in particular wise with the blood of Christ it was made with the same people also the house of Israel and Iuda so as the matter standing so that the Covenants and Testaments whether so distinct or not as before being to yong aswel as old what cause had R. B. to marvell unlesse at his owne shallownesse for indeede to any that hath but halfe an eye it is so far from excluding Childdren as it doth wholly include them and interest and inright them in the Covenant and Testaments both old and new and so in the seale now as of old especially the Covenant being everlasting and by neither Testaments made voide But further he saith If Infants be not in the Covenant confirmed by the blood of Christ who saith they are not Then can they he saith have no right to Baptisme which serveth to set forth our blood of washing in the blood of Christ But I answer if they have interest both in that Covenant and Testament also then they may have right to Baptisme But this is most certain as before is briefly declared so as if R. B. can shew no other eror to attēd that distinction it will also as the rest of the matter passe for good for any thing R. B. to purpose can say against it But he saith this excludeth Children not only from Baptisme but also from salvation by Christ how it doth so I suppose he cannot tell If he thinke thus because they are said to be in a Covenant not confirmed particularly by the blood of Christ Though Typically and Relatively it be so confirmed Then from such a conceit it will follow certainly that those Israelites of old Parents and Children were excluded from salvation by Christ they being in a Covenant not so confirmed Indeed his opinion seemeth to be sicke of this disease for how Children which he holdeth neither within the Church nor within the Covenant nor doe beleeve how they should have salvation by Christ sure he cannot tell This R. B. according to his judgement thinketh a sufficient answer The scriptures which I produced to prove the extent of the Covenant of God to Abraham and his seed in their generations and that the Gentiles they were a part of the seed to whom the Covenant was made Ephe. 3. 6. That children are included and not excluded so being in the Covenant and of the Church have a writ now also to the Seale to be buried with Christ by Baptisme all which I suppose R. B. granteth as true and that he could not gain-say the same And is therefore by just consequence guilty ●● offering wrong and violence to the Covenant of Almighty God and to Abraham the Father of the faithfull in excluding such as God hath not onely included but expressed in that his Heb. 8. Covenant and also in both his Testaments for these whether so distinguished or otherwise were made with one and the same people the house of Israel and Iuda so as to Gal. 1. exclude Children alway included must needes be a changing the Everlasting Covenant and a bringing in a new Gospel never learned of Jesus Christ and let R. B. or any other cleare themselves of it if they can The second positive ground I set forth it was the stablenesse and perpetuitie of the Church some change being in forme and Administration but not in matter and relation as in my discourse is before fully proved R. B. thinketh he hath disproved the same and so here passeth it by And he onely mindeth what I did infer from this ground Infants I said were lawfull members of the Church from Abraham to Moses from Moses to Christ what should let them from being a part of the Church and lawfull members yet still seeing the Church or Kingdome is the same Mat. 21. 43. I also there proved that the Gentiles they are fellow-heirs and of the same body Ephe. 3. 6. To all which and that that further followeth in my discourse R. B. answereth that though Infants were of the Church of old yet the Lord hath manifestly declared they shall not be so now It would amaze one to see the presumptuousnesse of the man hath God so manifestly declared their putting out of his Covenant and cutting off from the Church where is that manifest declaration the scripture rather declareth their continuance Ephe. 3. 6. But let us see where is that manifest declaration It is Gala. 4. There is mention in the scripture but of one Allegorie and that is all the proofe R. R. hath for the excluding of Children from the Church and cutting off their entayle from the Covenant sure he is verie neare driven that hath no other proofe but this Allegorie to prove a matter of such great consequence as the altering of the unchangable Covenant of God and cutting of a part of the Church And this Allegorie must be expounded according to his owne sence and fancie or else all is lost with him in the cause But let us see how he maketh the Allegorie speak to his purpose for the putting of Infants out of the Church Gala. 4. It is written Abraham had two sonnes one by a bond-maid an other by a free woman he that was borne of the bond-woman to wit Ishmael was borne after the flesh but he that was born of the free woman was born by promise The sum of all this is that Ishmael not being the childe of promise was put out of Abrahams family Alas what is all this to the manifest declaration O yes saith he it is an Allegory but sure R. B. had small judgement and lesse reason to say an Allegorie is a manifest declaration But happily he may make something of it I shall minde his sence The bond-woman he saith shadowed out the old Covenant and her son Ishmael which she bare to Abraham after the flesh by carnall generation see what words R. B. here useth in setting out the generation of Ishmael sure there was some Allegorie in his thoughts about them Rom. 4. 19. For I askt him was not Isaac borne after a fleshly wise and by carnall generation also sure he was begotten and brought forth even as Ishmael was R. B. is yet beside the white hee further saith that Ishmael shadowed out the carnall Israelites which should proceede from Abraham in after generations to what time he referreth Exo. 9. 6 Act 3. 25. this it doth not appeare As under Moses the Jewes are said to be a holy people and Gods peculiar treasure so after Christ the Apostle telleth us expressely they were the Children of the promise If Ishmael being cast out of Abrahams house
that place 2. Cor. 7. 1. R. B. misapplyeth in this case here he yet againe fathereth a false matter on me but I must beare it he in the end after some further impertinent matter saith he supposeth I know Christ would teach his disciples humilitie by that act But what then doth he teach nothing else doth he not teach that he that is washed needs not but to be washed in one part according to his Masters will and further also that he that is so washed is cleane all and if so in this washing then sure in that mysterious washing much more But in his conceit to wash a part is contrary to his own Institution Ma. 28. The man is sicke of totall dipping but it may be he may recover He saith further my great objection is that totall dipping cannot be performed with modestie and shamefastnesse I say I judge it cannot and I thinke such as are godly wise will thinke so also But he saith I urged against them in the hot countreyes their dipping often and rubbing to cleanse Now he saith I cannot determine how it may be done once If I had not met with such a perverse opposite I should have spared my selfe and the reader much paines did I say they dipped and rubbed in Baptisme fie R. B. Did not Naaman dip or wash seaven times do not those I instanced in dipping oft their materialls by which the way of washing is set forth If R. B. have no more to say to save his course from Immodestie he is in a poore case Going in his owne way he saith surely I will conclude they put on a linnen garment I will rather conclude such are wise and modest above what is written that shall hold totall dipping nad yet use a Covering I suppose R. B. will hold so too If he do not some of his opinion doe I am sure It will follow they baptize the garments into the death c. of Christ They doe so I iudge according to their opinion here yet still he fathereth a lie on me about sprinkling But he saith not their garments but the persons in the garments I answer if totall dipping be Christs Command and Institution so far as covered so far undipped whether those garments made for such use and so used are not as holy as Popish Vestments I leave the reader to judge He sayth it must follow that they that sprinkle baptize garments also I say it is onely accidentall if they doe they have no devised garment for the use they have onely common Cloaths some conscientious men in R. B. were true to their principles that have beene baptized in such vestments will see that the defect hath made void their Baptisme and that they are not to rest in it but to be Baptized againe What should be the cause R. B. hath laboured so much in this matter of dipping and taken notice of every particular I leave every man free to judge for my part I take it to be as I said before It is new and the man is mightily taken with it For I am sure the rest of the discourse is as much against him and in speciall that which followeth to which he saith nothing at all There is one thing in the end of this matter of dipping which he doth not declare himselfe about Namely whether he learned this new way of dipping of the Romanist and Ignorant Welch and whether he count their Baptisme the Baptisme of Christ In his next I suppose he will doe it Now he hath done with the Negative part of my discourse and so he commeth to the affirmative part how he quitteth himselfe there may be seene by that which followeth before he cometh to it he saith I have spoken my minde against the ordinance of Christ Certainly he is greatly mistaken I have spoken for the ordinance of Christ which he hath peremptorily condemned and yet doth denying the Baptisme of all the reformed Churches separed Churches also of all other Christians either Reformed or yet in defection only those two or three excepted that have within these two or three yeeres or some such short time bin totally dipped for Baptisme by persons at the beginning unbaptized themselves An opinion so rare and singular so high and presumptuous as I suppose all persons godly wise will abhorre the verie thinking of it Had not R. B so travelled through this matter of dipping I should not have challenged him for slipping as now I shall in the rest of the matter remaining Certainly dipping was none of the three particulars he would reduce my discourse unto as he told his reader in the end of his Epistle I must crave pardon if I declare my thoughts touching R. B. that he sure thought himselfe guiltie of what I so marvelled at Namely that persons should thinke that every Corruption meeting with Gods ordinance destroyeth it forthwith as if Sathan were stronger then God And that also his thoughts tell him he is one of them that would pull up the tares with Ma. 13. 29. Eze. 43. 8. the wheate and destroy Gods posts with mans as in my discourse I observed it to be the veine of not a few of which things he taketh no notice But maketh mention of my first positive ground and useth his skill of reducing it to a very narow compasse and so shifteth it off without either answering the scope the reasons or Scriptures by me produced so as I might take that ground unanswerable and say no more But in as much as I tender the discoverie of light and some clearing to the truth I will a little travell here further The first ground in my discourse was the Covenant of Almightie God to Abraham and his seede after him in their generations Gene. 17. I shewed it was an everlasting Covenant both in the nature and in the extent made to a thousand Generations Psal 105. Continuing to the time of Grace being of force after the suffering of our Lord that it did extend to the Gentiles they being a part of the seed to whom this Eph. 3. 6 Covenant was made as in the discourse may be further seene none of all which R. B. denieth for indeed he could not but something I further propounded he catcheth and that is about the difference I conceived to be betwixt a Covenant and Testament That there 's two Testaments of Almighty God and one Covenant distinct in divers considerations and in speciall in the manner of Confirming which things R. B. refuteth not though I desired that any one should shew the error that attends it he after some confused and darke setting forth of the ground Answereth he marvelleth I should urge Infants being in a Covenant not confirmed by the blood of Christ to prove their Interest in Baptisme and so consequently in the blood of Christ This matter he supposeth to be against me To which I answer the Covenant of Almighty God to Abraham Gene. 17. and his seede was confirmed in