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A13707 The trying out of the truth begunn and prosequuted in certayn letters and passages between Iohn Aynsworth and Henry Aynsworth; the one pleading for, the other against the present religion of the Church of Rome. The chief things to be handled, are. 1. Of Gods word and Scriptures, whither they be a sufficient rule of our faith. 2. Of the Scriptures expounded by the Church; and of unwritten traditions. 3. Of the Church of Rome, whither it be the true Catholike Church, and her sentence to be received, as the certayn truth. Ainsworth, John, fl. 1609-1613.; Ainsworth, Henry, 1571-1622? aut 1615 (1615) STC 240; ESTC S100498 226,493 192

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compared vvith Tob. 15. 18. 1. Maccab. 6. 16. vvith 2. Mac. 1. 16. 2. Macc. 1. 19. vvith 2. King 25. Iudith 9. 2. 3. vvith Gen. 49. 5. 6. Esth. apopcryph 12. 5. 6. vvith Esth. can 6. 3. and 3. 2. Esth. apoc 11. 2. vvith Esth. can 2. 16. besides their Popes determinations for making and vvorshiping of similitudes or images of silver and gold wood and stone hethenlike for having the vvorship of God and scriptures in a barbarous tongue vvhich the people understand not and many the like are expressly contrary to the commandements of God as any man of common judgment may evidently preceive yea some of their Popes have repeled the decrees one of another as before hath been manifested Eightly The summ of our faith learned from holy scriptures is to trust on God and Christ alone for mercy and salvation not on creatures as Angels and souls of men nor on our selves or humane merits vvhereby vve resting on God have and doo profess to have ful assurance of our salvation and so have peace of conscience in life and death But Popish faith learned by tradition teacheth men not to trust on God and Christ alone but on the intercession of creatures and Pardons of Popes and on their own merits also for salvatiō vvhereby their cōsciences accusing them they neyther have nor profess to have such peace by full assurance that they are heyres of God unto salvation as vve nay they rage against this truth as against an heresie Ninthly The holy scriptures vvhich vve rest vpon are of such power and authority that many thowsands in their ages have given their lives for the defense of them and of the things taught onely in them yea even hereticks have dyed for things vvhich they have erroneously thought to be in the scriptures reveled But for Papists they cannot shew many if any that have vvillingly given their lives for such doctrines as have onely bene taught by men by unwritten popish tradition and not in their judgment by the prophetical and Apostolical scriptures Tenthly the Holy scriptures vvhich are the rule of our faith have prophesies of things to come and due accomplishments of the prophesies as they vvere foretold vvhereby vve are confirmed of the truth and infallibility of those vvritings But the vvritings of Doctors Councils Popes on vvhich Papists rely are destitute of this confirmation Neyther dooth the Pope use to prophesie though it vvere necessary if he vvould as Christs vicar obtrude his ovvn decrees for divine oracles seing the testimony of Iesus is the spirit of prophesie as the Angel sayd Rev. 19. 10. Nay rather the prophesies of scripture plainly foreshew the Church of Rome to be the whore of Babylon and her Lord the Pope to be Antichrist Which he fearing it wil come to light forbiddeth therfore his subjects the reading of Gods book Eleventhly Papists themselves are forced in disputing against Iewes which were once Gods church and from which they themselves with us received the books of Moses and the Prophets to use onely the holy scriptures and prophesies to convince them for their Romish church traditions the Iewes doo not regard With these scriptures the Papists doo rightly think the Iewes are sufficiently convicted Even so doo we much more having the scriptures of the new Testament added to the old rightly hold it sufficient to convince the Papists by the written vvord vvhich they acknowledge to be of God and they have no more reason to refuse this and draw us to their Popes decretals then the Iewes have to refuse the Bible and draw men to their high preists Rabbies and Thalmuds or the Turkes to their Alkoran 12. Finally grace vvisdom and divine majesty appeareth in the holy scriptures to all that read them except they have a reprobate sense even by the confession of our adversaries But no such vvisdom grace or majesty appeareth in Popes decrétals more then in other humane vvritings yea they are full of ignorance grossnes barbarisme error favouring of the Popes private spirit as any of understanding unless they be the Popes bondmen vvil confess and no singular grace appeareth in them more then in the books of H. N. or Alkoran of Mahomet For all vvhich and sundry other like reasons vvhich might be alleged every reasonable infidel vvhom God vvill save vvill rather incline to our grounds of ancient Christianity then to the other of late Iesuitisme or Popery Let him that readeth consider and give sentence By this vvhich hath bene vvritten you may see M. I. A. that we fly not for proof to our privat spirit as you often slander us but we say a Papist may be couvinced by the wisdome and majesty of God shining in the scriptures and other arguments forementioned more easily then an Atheist can be convinced by the wisdom and majesty of God shining in the creatures And if this later were sufficient by th'Apostles testimony to condemn the hethens the former must needs be more sufficient to condemn you especially seing you confess the scriptures to be of GOD vvhereas the Atheist will not confess the world to be of God and yet you dare not abide the trial of your religion by this book of God without your own traditions and decrees also Whereas if you graunt a Turk to be tried by the Bible and his Alkoran or a Iew to be tried by the Prophets and his Thalmud you will betray all Christianity And when one ask you a reason vvhy you beleeve the scriptures or any doctrine to be of God you answer that extrinsi●ally that is outwardly and in respect of your selves it is because your church that is the Pope vvho is head of your church telleth you so and not by your own private spirit Which is as if one should ask vvhy you beleeve the sun to be the light of the vvorld and you should answer extrinsecally because the Pope tells you so and not because of any private sight or discerning in your own eyes Ask you agayn vvhither you know the Pope to be a man of God furnished vvith his grace and spirit that he cannot deceive you You answer we hold not that the Pope is necessarily indued with Gods holy grace for in matter of fa●t he may syn as wel as any other Ask you agayn how then you trust such vile ungracious Popes as many have been by your own mens testimony you answer you hold the Pope hath a necessary assistance of the holy Ghost as he defines ex cathedra out of his chayr as the head of the church Ask you a proof of this paradox and you cannot bring any one line of Gods holy scriptures to confirme it you can neyth●r find the Pope nor his chayr there mentioned any more then Mahom●t or the Alkoran Then you flee to late humane testimonies of Doctors Fathers Councils vvhich also you vvrest Yet ask you vvhither those Doctors vvere necessarily indued vvith the spirit of God could not
to man children when in danger of death before the eight day they necessarily were to receive remedie of their sinne How prove you that our blessed virgin Marie was a perpetuall virgin ante partum in partu et post partum how ar you able to prove this by the bare letter against Helvidius the heretick for he vrgeth you with the plaine text and with originall phrase viz. That he knew her not till the brought forth her first sonne and the word know you know what it imports in the Hebrew phrase As Abraham knew Sara So that you see we beleeve this perfection of the blessed and perpetuall Uirgin Mary by tradition though the bare text seems to make against it How doe you prove that our sunday should be celebrated on sunday and not on saterday by the bare letter without tradition How doe you prove the celebration of Easter as it is now without tradition How doe you prove the Creede of the Apostles out of the naked word How doe you prove without tradition that you should receive the blessed sacrament kneeling the receiving of it fasting the eating of blood and strāgled meates prohibited in the Acts of the Apostles How are you able to prove all these or any one of these by convincing reasons out of the holy scriptures alone All these you say you can prove not alleaging one place of scripture for any of them though you have bene most copious to prove idem per idem in other pointes to little purpose Now you say onely it would goe hard with you if you could not prove these without tradition and me thinks it goes hard with you since you prove not one particular of them all Therfore I desire you that you would not confound your trace so like the Fore or hare in doubling and turning but that you would answer distinctly to each poinct as it lies if you answer Wherfore to shut up this point I will conclude with S. August Genes ad litt ● 10. ● 23. that as he sayes that the not rebaptising of infants were not to be beleeved if it were not taught by tradition So I say these forealleaged mysteries were not to be beleeved without the direction of tradition Now since we are come to the answering of your arguments which are nothing but allegations of scripture falsly applied me thinks I cannot better compare them then as to so many orient pearles and rich Jewels hung and placed out of order in an Judian or ●thiopians lippes nose armes and legges so these places of scripture in that they are racked and wrested from their right sence and meaning their lustre and beautie is rather a disgrace thē ornament to the wearer For when you bring the place of Deut. 5 32. to take heed that wee should doe as our Lord commaunded us not turning to the right hand nor the left and of that of Deut. 12. 32. not putting any thing therevnto or taking any thing therfrom I answer first granting that God commaundeth this but I deny that hence can be gathered that in that we should doe as our Lord commaundeth us and that we should not turne vnto the right hand or to the left that the holy scripture should be the onely rule and v●ptor of faith F●r as it doth not follow nothing is to be added to the fourth cōmaundement and the fourth commandement is to be observed therfore there is onely the fourth commaundement and it is therfore the rule of all the rest 2. I answer that all additions whatsoever are not here prohibited but onely such as are contrary to the word of God For many other Prophets as the penn men of the holy Ghost did adde diverse yea most part of the holy scriptures But now it is plaine that the definitions and traditions of the Catholick church by whose mouth the holy Ghost doth dictat are most consonant to the text of scripture For the holy Ghost speaketh by them though not tanquam calamus velociter scribentis For Luke 10. it is sayd he that heareth you heareth me and he that contemneth you contemneth me Math. 18. If he doe not hear the church let him be to thee as an Ethnicke and a Publican and S. Ambrose expounding the last of S. John 18 v. where S. John saith If any man shall adde unto these things God shall adde vnto him the plagues written in this book S. Ambrose saith he makes not a protestation against the expositors of his prophesie but against heretichs For the expositor doth adde nor diminish nothing but onely openeth the obscuritie of the place and sheweth the moral and spirituall sense Now to answer your second argument I wonder how you being a man of vnderstanding should be so much deceived as to think that these places make for you against vs. For wee holding firm our assertion can cite all the self same places Rom. 3. 10. 11 19. that man naturally understands not the things of God that mans wisdome is foolishnes Coloss. 2. 22. For we affirm it the gift of the holy ghost by an infused habit of faith that we beleeve and that by the directiō of the holy Ghost promised that the Church cannot ●●r neyther doe we when we allow of tradition make at our pleasure voluntary religion for we acknowledge tradition also to be the word of God the voice of his spouse that is taught in al truth guided up the holy ghost vnto the end of the world Wherfore your argument proves nothing since you presuppose that proved that rests yet to you to prove The like answer I give vnto your third argument viz. that men are dead in trespasses Ephe. 2. 5. Math 15 9. that faith to by hearing and hearing by the word Rom. 10 17. But I deny that the word is the totall or onely rule of faith since we finde many thinges to be beleeved that are not expresslie found in the written word nor thence deduced And to answer breifly vnto your 4 Argument I graunt that the Preists and Prophets were bound to heare the word and that of Ezek. 13. 2 3. that they should not prophesie according to their own heart or follow their own spirit but I deny that they should follow onely the written word or that folowing the voice of the Church the interpretaton of holy Fathers and Doctors they follow their own harts and their own inventions So that you see how weake your arguments be so that they might with more reason bee returned on your self The second thing which you say I take vpon me to prove but more rightly to say onely to propound till the decision of this mayne question be ended which was whether the definitive sentence of the Church and Pope be an infallible rule and guide of our faith Thus questiō I say I onely intēded rather to propound thē prove that we have not at one tyme diverse pro●s togither in the fyre But now to handle it by way of vellitation and not of purpose
weakness of faith Whereas indeed S. Peters words if thou be the sonn of God are an argument of confidence and beleeving manifested by the word following commaund me to come vpon the waters And that our Saviour argued S. Peter of little faith was when he feared the strong winde and began to sinck not for his walking vpon the waters before others no other having with that firmnes of faith asked or attēpted to come to our Sa● though they saw him Those places cited 2 King 2. Dan. 3. 25. Heb. 11. 34. proves that ever such myracles doe not prove superioritie or of dignitie before others which wee intend not to prove but onely that this together with many other circumstances doe prove superiority of S. Peter 162. 3. Our Saviour calls S. Peter the rocke and saies on this rocke I will build my church and that hell gates shall not prevaile against him First you saie John the 10. 27. 28. 29. that hell gates shal not prevaile against the just which if you vnderstand in the Calvinistical sence that one once justified can not be againe the child of wrath which is a most horrible falsehood and against the holy scriptures Roma 11. 20. but thow by faith dooth stand be not highly wise but feare et 21 Revel 2. 5. But if not I come to the and will move thy candlestick out of his place 163. It is against the principles of faith since so all Christians being truely baptised and so regenerated in grace could not sinne to death and so all should bee saved 164. You take it for a great matter that I graunt the Pope maie sinne in matter of fact be reprovated if he die in mortal sinne It is our Catholick doctrine and the Pope goes to confession cōmonly oftener then any ordinarie Preist yet this proves nothing that the Divill prevailes against him as he is head of the church as he defines ex cathedra As for your blasphemous speeches torne out of the Apocalyps in his place I shall returne them on your owne head and of the hereticall sonnes your father 165. 4. You object against that which I cite out of S. Luk. 22 31. And our Lord said Simon Simon Behold Sathan hath required to have you to sift as wheat But I have praied for thee that thy faith maie not faile thee and thou once converted confirme thy brethrē you answer that the other Apostles were to cōfirm their brethrē I answer as particular pastors Act. 14. 22. et 15. 41. 32. 1 Thes. 3. 2. Apoc. 3. 2. but not as the supreame pastor by special assistance of Gods grace dissigned here to confirme his brethren S. Aug. lib. q. novi testamenti q. 75. to 4. teacheth that Christ praying for Peter praied for the rest because in the pastor and prelate the people are corrected or amended And S. Cyprian Epist 55. n 6. saies that hence infidelitie or a false faith cannot fasten on S. Peter and in the selfe same chap. he affirmes though there were 12. Apostles yet for keeping vnitie he would have one head of all You saie you will consent with the holie Fathers so farr forth as they agree with scripture 〈◊〉 bie will not you consent then vnto them when they alleage thus scripture for the Popes primacie But I proved that you admitted thē so farr as they agree to scripture that is to your owne phancie to which as guiltie you are altogither silent As for the places cited by you Act. 14. v. 22. I finde therein nothing to your purpose but a grosse corruption of the holie text in your opiniō translating presbyter Elder which soundes as well as if you would translate the Major of London the Elder against the common vnderstanding and vse of the word But in the old testament you translate sacerdos a Priest and yet here you translate Elder 166. That which you prove the 16. of the Act. 41. proves that S. Paul did cōfirme particular churches but not the whole church as head by office and in that he commanded them to keep the Apostles precepts and the ancients proves tradition against you And that particular pastors precepts are to bee kept not onely things expressed in the writtē word That the 32. ver affirmes that particular may particularly comfort others the 1 of the Thess. 3. 2. proves onely that Timothie was sent particularly onely to confirme them and the like can onely be inferred out of the third of the Apoc. 2. which is so farr from proving the speciall confirmation promised to S. Peter that the confirmation is by the vigilencie of one that had the name onely to live c. Thus wee though you object my objections bleede I am assured your wrested places as poore same souldiers are to retreate on crutchess 167. 5. I gathered by a congruencie that S. Peter was head in that his feet were first washed by our Saviour Ioh 13. 6. 7. where presently after he had spoke of washing the text saies He cōmeth therefore to Peter by therefore hath reference to washing and to S. Peters first washing you stand not much herevpon but according to the opinion of most of the ancient fathers you admitt S. Peter was first washed Onely you except that he shewed greater weakness then his brethren I answer that his refusing to wash was out of a respective love that he had to our Saviour but vnderstanding presently that of our Saviour If I wash the not v. S. S. Peter to show he had a perfect resignation not expressed by any of the rest he presently pe●ldes Lord not onely my feet but also my hands and head 168. 6. I inferr that S. Peter onely received a revealed promise of his Martyrdome but here you that slights any thing objects that performāce is more thē promise And S. Stephē● James Act. 12. 2. 7. 59. suffred Martyrdome before I answer that an assured promise absolutly to come is not worse but rather better then an accelerated performance if the performance of the other be differred for greater good as S. Peters was And the theife on the crosse for dying repentant maie challenge a crowne of glorie as Christ Jesus promised him and not to bee the head of the church as it was promised to S. Peter 169. 7. I gathered S Peters preheminence above others in that Act. 2. v. 14. S. Peter as the head of the rest made the first sermon when the Jewes objected they were ful of win● But Peter standing with the eleven lifted vp his voice and spake to them yee men Jewes and all that dwell at Hierusalem etc. v. 15. he answers for the rest For these are not drunck as you suppose and that he was not onely superior in age or order only I have showē Therfore Mr. H. A. doth as it were graunt this and with that the Pope were as forward as S. Peter in these and such good offices I wi●● al●o that wee had also that abundance of Gods