the people that Christ came to saue the house of Israell by giuing his life for their sinnes and that sinne caused the onely Sonne of God to be crucified in the flesh and to suffer the most vile and slaunderous death of the Crosse and consequently willed them to remember how grieuously and cruelly Christ was handled of the Iewes for our sinnes and to set before their eyes Christ crucified with his body stretched on the Crosse his head crowned with sharpe thornes his hands and his feete pearced with nayles his heart opened with a speare his flesh rent and torne with whips his browes sweating water and bloudâ⦠by this stirreth vp the hearers to the hatred of sinne that was so grieuous in the sight of God that he would not be pacified but onely with the bloud of his owne Sonne And though there were a thousand examples in the Scripture shewing how greatly God abhorred sinne yet this one is of more force then all the rest that the Sonne of God was compelled to giue his body to bee bruised and broken on the Crosse for our sinnes After these premonitions follow your words Christ hath taken vpon him the iust reward of sinne which was death not the whole reward of sinne which is an vtter exclusion from all grace and glorie and the eternall damnation of body and Soule in hell fire but the death of his body bruised and broken on the Crosse by the cruell rage of the Iewes which is particularly and plainely before described Now the death of the body inflicted on all mankind for sinne is the iust though not the full reward of sinne and by suffering that Christ freed vs from all condemnation of sinne which otherwise in vs would haue beene euerlasting And this explication the same Homily addeth to the former words which you cite though you purposely suppresse it When all hope of righteousnesse was past on our part and wee had nothing whereby wee might quench Gods burning wrath and worke the saluation of our Soules Then euen then did the Sonne of God come downe from heauen to be wounded for our sakes to be reputed with the wicked to be condemned vnto death to take vpon him the reward of our sinnes and to giue his body to be broken on the Crosse for our offences Here are both the places which you patch together the one noting Death to be the iust reward of sinne the other expressing what kind of death Christ suffered for vs as the reward of our sinne euen the breaking of his body on the Crosse for our offences In the second proposition you shew more deprauing of the publike doctrine of this Realme For where the second Homily saith in expresse words that our Grandfather Adam by breaking Gods commaundement in eating the Apple forbidden him in Paradise purchased not onely to himselfe but also to his posteritie for euer the iust wrath and indignation of God who condemned both him and his to euerlasting death both of body and Soule you transferre this iudgement from Adam to Christ which the Homily doeth not and least you should bee taken tardie with open blasphemie you leaue out the word EVERLASTING which is euident in the Homily and vpon those maimed and forged collections you inferre that by the Homily Christ tooke on him for vs the death both of body and Soule Why say you not Christ tooke vpon him EVERLASTING death both of body and Soule which was the iust and due purchase or wages of our sinne by the plaine words of that Homilie You feared blasphemie and therefore you chose rather to falsifie the place then to want some defence for your Doctrine Christ you will say died that death which was the reward of our sinne by the Booke of Homilies To belie publike Authoritie so grossely in so great causes is a quadruple iniquitie What death Christ died for our sinnes is openly professed and euen pictured before our eyes in this very Homilie the words I repeated in the Section before What death was the wages of our sinne if the word euerlasting did not fully declare the same Homilie in the same Section whence your words are taken doth twice most abundantly teach Adam tooke vpon him to eate of the tree forbidden and in so doing he died the death that is to say he became mortall he lost the fauour of God he was cast out of Paradise he was no longer a Citizen of heauen but a fire brand of hell and a bond-slaue to the Diuell And sixe lines after So that now neither Adam nor any of his had any right or interest at all in the kingdome of heauen but were become plaine Reprobates and cast-awaies being perpetually damned to the euerlasting paines of hell fire It would fairely fit your new Doctrine to defend that Christ was a Reprobate and a Cast-away yea a fire-brand of hell and a bond-slaue to the Diuell perpetually damned to the euerlasting paines of hell fire And though I be perswaded you detest these diuelish impieties and hellish blasphemies yet you regard little your cause or your conscience which vouch in Print that Christ suffered that reward of sinne which by the Booke of Homilies was due to vs all those things by the same Booke in the same place being due to vs. You will shift of this matter as if these things might be granted in substance not in circumstance and in our countenance not in his But such shifts are so shamefull and sinfull in this case that I thinke your owne friends wil altogether mislike your flying to the Booke of Homilies for the death of the Soule or the iust reward of sinne in all mankind there mentioned to be suffered in the Soule of Christ. Also our great Bible appointed by Authoritie to be read in publike Churches expresly saith as much It is a poore pittance when you finde no helpe for your new made hell in the whole Text of the Bible to run to the Printers additions set by the sides of the Booke who often annexe things in the Margine for direction or explication as they thinke good which declare the Printers or Correctors but not the Authors nor Translators mind Your wits I trust be not so weake but you can discerne between the English translation of the Text commaunded to be publikely read in the Church and the Marginall notes added by others without any warrant of publike Authority for ought that I see And therefore I take not my selfe nor any man else to be bound to those notes farder then they euidently concurre with the truth of the Text though they may be sometimes profitable for the opening of hard places That Christ was in an Agonie the Euangelist affirmeth and the English Translator hath done his duetie in expressing so much but what the cause was of that Agonie is beyond the Commission of a Translator to specifie since the Scripture concealeth it and so publike Authoritie which appointed
former feare and freed from suffering hell paines wherein there is no comfort he prayed more earnestly or ardently and his sweate was in colour and consistence like drops or strings of blood trickling downe to the ground So that feruencie in prayer is set downe next before that sweate in the Gospell as a precedent or cause thereof Howbeit I onely barre the boldnesse of this deuiser who presumeth what pleaseth him of Christs bloodie sweate in the garden because the Scriptures doe not exactly mention the cause and thinke it no reason to let him build on a blinde coniecture a false conceit of his owne without any warrant of holy Scripture But I am repugnant to my selfe and some where I hold that Christ suffered no more but meere bodily paines that is in his soule from and by his bodie Neuerthelesse contrââ¦riwise I seeme somewhere to yeelde wholely so much as you affirme I leaue that grace to you Sir Discourser to roule to and fro and when you haue ââ¦aid a thing after a sense and in a sort then in another kind to vnsay it againe and laying the whole foundation of your cause vpon Christes suffering the wrath of God neither to bring any proofes or to shew any parts thereof by the word of God but to play with the termes of very proper and meere and to call that the opening of the whole question Indeed I euery where defend that Christ suffered no death expressed or mentioned in the Scriptures saue onely the death of the bodie from other passions or sufferings of the soule as feare sorrow shame and such like I doe not exempt the soule of Christ when he sustered for our sinnes though I leaue no place in him for the feare of damnation sting of conscience despaire or doubt of Gods fauour and such other shipwrackes of all faith hope patience and pietie The Crosse death and blood of Christ when I name I vse those words as the Scripture doth to declare the whole maner and order of his passion from the garden to the graue as it is described in the Euangelists not excluding either the feare or agonie which befell him before he was apprehended but comprising within his death his obedience and patience in all those asââ¦ictions which he suffered till he died And this is no wauering in mee to retaine the words of the holy Ghost in their right sense and vse but it is rather a childish dalliance in you Sir Discourser to suppose that the death of Christ doth import no more but the very act of giuing vp the ghost or els if I by that worde designe the rest of Christs sufferings endured at the time of his death by the witnesse of holy Scripture you will also hemme in your hell paines within the list of the same wordes though the Euangelists name or note no such thing in all the historie of Christs passââ¦on So likewise in speaking of Gods wrath against the wicked I wrap in no Ridles nor enuiron the Reader with a windlace of words but plainely and fairely distinguish it either by the naturall vertues and properties that are in God misââ¦iking and repreââ¦sing sinne or by the effects and punishments proceeding from God to reuenge the works and reward the workers of iniquitie In the wicked Gods holinesse hateth the euill deede and the doer that is both the sinne and the sinner and by his iustice without all loue or fauour towardes them awardeth a punishment against them according to their deserts which the power of God doth execute on them not respecting their strength but rather inabling them to continue in perpetuall torments of bodie and soule in hell fire for euer Gods purpose being onely to reuenge sinne in them and to destroy them for their sinnes which is most holy and righteous in him though it be neuer so grieuous and intollerable to them Gods iust and full iudgement against sinne where and when it pleaseth him to inflict it is the depriuing bodie and soule of all outward and inward peace and grace in this life for the time and the reiecting of both from all blisââ¦e and rest in the world to come for euer which is the losââ¦e of God and of all his blessings prouided in this life and the next for his elect These causes and parts Gods anger hath against the wicked for their sinnes and to euery of these the Scripture beareth witnesse In Christ Gods holinesse infinitely imbraced the humilitie obedience and charitie of his Sonne offering himselfe to be the ransommer of man and perfectly loued the integritie innocencie and puritie of his manhood created called and anointed of God to this intent and end that his death and bloodshedding should be the redemption of the world though God vtterly hated the sinnes of men which his sonne then assumed into the bodie of his flesh to beare the burden of them when wee could not Wherefore Gods iustice finding the loue of the Father towards his Sonne farre to exceede the hatred of the Creator against the vncleannesse of his sinfull but sedused creature did relent from the rigour of that iudgement which was prouided for sinne in Angels and with a fatherly regard and respect to the meanest part of the peââ¦son of his sonne decreed a punishment for our sinnes in the manhood of Christ which was a corporall death accompanied with the sharpest paines that Christ might endure with obedience and pacience whose voluntarie submission and sacrifice for sinne the iustice of God did accept as a most sufficient price and payment for all our sinnes which in themselues deserued euerlasting destruction of bodie and soule in hell fire with deuils This correction though very sharpe yet not ouerpressing the patience of Christs manhood Gods iustice would not release to his owne Sonne least he should seeme to make light account of our sinne if it were remitted onely for prayer and intreatie and without iust cause so terribly to punish the sinnes of the reprobate with all kinds of death I meane corporall spirituall and eternall And greater or other death then the death of the bodie God by no iustice could impose on the person of his Sonne since Christ could not be subiected to sinne which he must cleanse and abolish in vs much lesse be reiected from euerlasting ââ¦lisse and ioy to which hee must bring vs least of all linked and chained with deuils in perpetuall flames of hell fire for so much as hee was the true and onely Sonne of God for whose sake we all were adopted and made heires of eternall saluation And for this cause the power of God which is otherwise most dreadfull to men and Angels and so was then to the manhood of Christ restrained it selfe and tempered the smart of Christes paines to the stââ¦ength of Christes humane nature not meaning to ouerwhelme his patience but to trie his obedience to the vttermost In all which sufââ¦erings Gods counsell and purpose was most fauourable and honourable euen to the manhood
religious Prince aswell to examine the Scriptures with all diligence as to shew the confession and resolution of Christs Church long before our times that all the world may see I maintaine none other grounds of Faith nor sense of Scripture than haue beene anciently constantly and continually professed and beleeued in the Church of Christ for these fifteene hundred yeeres till this our present Age and the same allowed and ratified by the publike lawes of this Realme which your Maiestie in your most Princely wisdome and courage professe to vpholde and continue God for his holy Names sake blesse your most sacred Maiestie and prosper all your vertuous and Christian cares that as in learning and wisdome in clemencie and pietie he hath made you the Mirrour of this Age so in peace and prosperitie in concord and vnitie in all happinesse and felicitie he may exalt you aboue all your neighbour Princes and hauing vnited the two Realmes of England and Scotland in one subiection vnder your Princely right and regiment he will knit the hearts and hands of both to honour and serue you loue and obey you and your royall issue after you to the worlds end Your Maiesties most humble subiect and seruant THO. WINTON THE CHIEFE RESOLVTIONS OF THIS Suruey THe cleerenes and fulnes of the Scriptures in the worke of our Redemption is exactly to be reuerenced so as no man ought to teach or beleeue any thing touching our redemption by Christ which is not expresly witnessed in the sacred Scriptures much lesse may we distrust the manifest words of the holy Ghost to be impertinent or vnsufficient in declaring the true price and meane of our redemption The maine ground of the Gospell which the Apostles preached the faithfull receiued wherein they continued and whereby they were saued was this That Christ died for our sinnes according to the Scriptures and was buried and rose the third day according to the Scriptures Since then we are reconciled to God by the death of his Sonne we must acknowledge none other death of Christ then that which he suffered in the bodie of his flesh after which he was buried and from which he rose the third day which death the Scriptures most apparently describe to be the death of Christs bodie If we were redeemed by the bloud of Christ and God proposed him to be a Reconciliation through faith in his bloud which was shed for the remission of sinnes we may not presume to appoint a new price of our redemption or new meane of our reconciliation since by the bloud of his crosse Christ hath pacified both the things in earth and things in heauen and the bloud of Iesus Christ cleanseth vs from all sinne The Scriptures doe no where teach nor mention the death of Christs Joule or the death of the damned which is the second death to be needfull for our redemption We must not therefore intrude our selues into Gods seat to ordââ¦ne a new course for mans redemption If the Spirit doe quicken and the iust liue by faith and he that abideth in loue abideth in God who is life it was vtterlie impossible but the soule of Christ in that abundance of Spirit euidence of Faith assurance of Hope and perfection of Loue which he alwayes retained should alwayes liue to God Life and death being opposed as priuatiues and so not to be found in one and the same subiect at one and the same time the soule of Christ alwayes liuing could neuer be dead Neither could a dead soule be pleasing to God who is whole life and therefore hateth death as contrarie to his nature when yet he was alwayes well pleased with Christ. Where some imagine extreame paine in Christs soule may be called the death of his soule that position is repugnant to the Scriptures for the greater the paine which the soule feeleth and endureth with innocencie confidence obedience and patience such as were all Christes sufferings the more the soule liueth and cleaueth to God for whose glorie it suffereth so much smart as appeareth in Martyrs whose soules do most liue in their greatest torments The late deuice of hell-paines in Christes passion is not only false but also superfluous for the true paines of hell neither are nor can be suffered in this life where by Gods ordinance extreame paine driueth the soule from the bodie much lesse can man or Angell endure them with obedience and patience as Christ did all his paines And what need was there of hell-paines in the crosse of Christ since God can by euery meanes or without meanes raise more paines in bodie or soule than any creature can endure Christs soule could not be strooken with any horrour of Gods displeasure against him since in his greatest anguish he professed God to be his God and his Father and by prayer preuailed for his persecutors as appeared after by their conuersion and gaue eternall life to the soule of the Thiefe hanging by him and beleeuing on him Now to giue life is more than to haue life and restore others to fauour he can not that himselfe is in displeasure Hell-fire which the damned and diuels do and shall suffer is a true and eternall fire prepared by the mightie hand of God to punish aswell spirits as bodies and this errour That the fire of hell was only an internall or spirituall fire in the soules and consciences of men was long since condemned in Origen by the Church of Christ. Reiection therefore desperation confusion horrour of damnation externall and eternall fire which are the torments of the damned and true paines of hell can not without blasphemie be ascribed to Christ. Christ therefore suffered neither the death of the soule nor the paines nor horrors os the damned or of hell Euery sinne is common to the whole man who is defiled euen with thoughts that be euill not only because the bodie is the Seat wherein and the instrument whereby the soule worketh but also for that the first infection of sinne commeth to the soule by the bodie and the first information and prouocation to sinne riseth from the senses and affections which are mooued with corporall spirits and all the parts and powers of the bodie attend the will with most readie subiection to haue each sinne which the soule conceiueth impressed on them and executed by them And therefore the suffering for sinne in the person of the Mediatour must be common both to bodie and soule in such sort that as in transgressing our soules are the principall Agents so in the suffering for sinne his soule was the principall Patient Christ would vse no power to assuage the force and violence of his paines though he wanted none as appeareth by his ouerthrowing them with a word that came to apprehend him but submitted himselfe to his Fathers will with greater obedience and patience than any man liuing could We may therefore safely beleeue That the iustice of God condemning sinne in Christes flesh proportioned the paines of his bodie in
They inherite both sinne and death from their Parents and so of necessity must die and putrifie in the graue he did inherite neither but being free from both yeelded himselfe to die that he might purge and abolish sinne Death wresteth our soules from our bodies be we neuer so patient whiles sence doth last he breathed out his soule powerfully and willingly which none could take from him except he would lay it downe of his owne accord Our bodies doe rot in the graue and lye in corruption which is the dominion of death till the time they shall be restored his body could not be dissolued to ashes because neither part of his humane nature might perish after it was once vnited to his Diuine but lay in the graue without corruption resisting death and rose with speede in glory ouerthrowing death first in him selfe and after in all his members at their appointed time So that death is now a necessarie consequent to our sinfull nature his voluntary death was the satisfaction for our sins and pacification of Gods wrath restoring vs againe to Gods fauour which through sin we had lost Thus haue you both swarued very far Sir Desender from your owne question which your selfe put in your first Treatise though wide from our purpose and wholy misreported the doctrine which I formerly auouched by Scriptures and Fathers giuing small hope you will deale more sincerely in the rest that enter so corruptly at the first but you will now open the whole state of the Question which we are content to heare The opening of the whole state of the Question For the better vnderstanding whereof we must note these principall things What you calâ⦠the opening of the Question I may better call the darkning and obscuring of the Question with many trifling and tedious obseruations with many new found farre fet and ill applyed phrases with many bold and false assertions powred out of your owne braines without any shew or so much as pretence of holy Scripture And if you may be suffered thus to raigne and reuele in matters of Religion at your pleasure it is an easie way for you to conclude any thing without any great paines or proofes For you bring vs a world of wordes warranted by no mans authoritie but by your owne and out of them you frame false positions fitte for your fancie and vtter them as vndoubted principles of Christian Religion which indeede haue in them neither truth nor sence when they come to be examined As is your matter so is your method tumbling and tossing too and fro like the vnsettlednesse of your head and spending twentie pages in meere confusion and contradiction for which cause I must be driuen to recall your conceits to some speciall heads least in pursuing your steps I loose both my selfe and the Reader The things which you disorderly shuffle and I shall be forced more largely to handle concerne either the offender which is man or the offence which is sinne or the Iudge which is God or the punishment which is death or the ransommer and redeemer which is Christ. I meane to meddle with no more in any of these but what directly pertaineth to this question and serueth aptly to exclude your conceits and truely to establish the collections which I make First then 1 touching MAN who consisteth of body and soule the doubt will be whether the whole man sinned in Adam that the whole might suffer in Christ or whether the soule onely sinned that the soule of Christ onely must suffer Secondly in 2 SINNE must be remembred how it commeth and what it bringeth Sinne is either COMMITTED as by Adam or INHERITED as by vs all or ASSVMED as by Christ who tooke vpon him the punishment of our sinnes though neither committed nor inherited by him And of it selfe sinne breedeth in the offendor where it is not remitted clensed and remooued by the blood of Christ POLLVTION of the whole man STING of conscience and REVENGE of Gods wrath in this life and the next Thirdly for the 3 IVDGE which is God we must learne from what ground within him the punishments of his elect in this life doe proceede whether from his Iustice or from his loue or from both mixed together by whom he executeth his iustice in earth and in hell whether by his immediate hand or by inferiour ministers and meanes with what measure he proportioneth it as well to the faithfull in this life as to the faithlesse till the number of their sinnes be full and lastly to what purpose he directeth it either to reuenge sinne as in the wicked and damned or to represse sinne as in the godly or to declare his iustice as in Infants baptized or to perfit his graces as in the best of his Saints here on earth or to purge and abolish sinne and to prooue obedience as in the person of Christ Iesus Fourthly 4 DEATH which is the wages of sinne and includeth all the punishments prouided here and elsewhere for sinners is either corporall parting the soule from the bodie or spirituall separating the soule from the life and grace of God or eternall excluding both bodie and soule from the ioy and blisse of Gods heauenly kingdome and wrapping them both in the darkenesse fire and horrour of hell for euer That all the paynes and griefes of this life are the seedes of death and wayes to death and so come vnder the name of death which driueth the soule from the bodie is now presumed and shall be prooued in place conuenient Fiftly concerning the 5 REDEEMER which is Christ to whose sufferings all that is aforesaid must in some sort be referred the question is in what part and how farre he suffered feared or apprehended the wrath of God against our sinnes but without question we must know and beleeue that his person was naturally and infinitely beloued of God all the elect being imbraced and accepted onely for him and in him and that the dignitie of his person and depth of his fauour with God when hee submitted himselfe to shew his obedience and maintaine Gods iustice by the shame and sharpenesse of the Crosse receiued in his humaine nature was the right ground and true cause of our Redemption and Reconciliation to God whose patience vnto death was a greater and acceptabler sacrifice to God for sinne then all the world yea then all earthly and heauenly creatures were worth And to increase or strengthen this voluntary sacrifice for sinne the paines of hell were no way needfull since Christ was to shew his obedience in this life onely and after death to rise and raigne with glory and by that which he suffered on the Crosse he was to learne the obedience of a Sonne and not the vengeance due to deuils In all these issues if I would take the Discoursers trade to affirme what I list without any further proofe I could end the whole cause in as fewe wordes as I haue expressed it but since that will neither
because it is neuer inflicted but after the first death and likewise wrath to come for that the state of this present life is not capable of thââ¦se extreame torments which are reserued for another world And least I should seeme to make degrees and parts of eternall death out of mine owne head let vs briefly view whether the word of God do not witnesse the same There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth sayth Christ when you shall see Abraham Isaac and Iacob and aâ⦠the Prophets in the kingdome of God and your selues thrust out at doores Many of those that sleepe in the dust of the earth shall awake sayth Daniel to perpetuall shame and reproch Their worme shall neuer die sayth Esay The Lord that willed his good and faithfull seruants to enter into their masters ioy when he came to the slouthfull and vnprofitable seruant commanded to be taken from him euen that he had and to cast him into vtter darkenesse The Iudge himselfe forwarneth he will giue this sentence on the wicked in the last day Depart from ââ¦e ye cursed into euerlasting ââ¦ire prepared for the diuell and his angels They shall be tormented in fire and brimstone sayth Iohn and the smoke of their torments shall ascââ¦nd euermore and they shall haue no rest night nor day This is that euerlasting perdition and vengeance of eternall fire which the wicked shall suffer in hell and this is the full and complete punishment and wages of sinne repaying the reprobate according to their deserts when their sinnes come once to that ripenesse and fulnesse that they may no longer be endured by Gods iustice the two former kinds of deaths in this world being such as are either despised or desired by the wicked For nothing is more acceptable to them than without all feare or care of God to follow their willes and pursue their lusts which iâ⦠the death of the soule and the death of the bodie which they can not decline they labour to neglect and though they murmuâ⦠at God for it as if man had beene framed at first mortall yet finde they no great hurt in it because they know not the sequel of it and perceiue it to be common to good and badde and to leaue no sense of paine behinde it And indeed the outward punishments of this life are by Gods bountie and patience so tempered not only with comfort to the godly but with moderation to the wicked that they warne all men to feare and flie the wrath to come and giue time and place for amendment The old inhabitants of the holy land thou Lord diddest hââ¦te sayth the Wiseman for they committed abominable works as sorceries and wicked sacrifices neuerthelesse thou sparedst them also as men and didst send the forerunners of thine host euen hornets to root them out not that thou couldest not destroy them with one rough word but in punishing them by little and little thou gauest them space to repent The Apostle sayth the same Despisest thou the riches of Gods bountie and patience and long suffering not knowing that the bountie of God leadeth thee to repentance but thou after thine hardnesse and heart that can not repent heapest vnto thy selfe wrath against the day of wrath and of the declaration of the iust iudgement of God who will reward euery man according to his works The wrath of God is also diuersly taken in the Scriptures sometimes for the inward dislike and hatred that God in his holinesse hath of all iniquitie sometimes for his iudgements threatned or executed against sinne whether they be tempered with loue or patience to worke or expect repentance as in his owne and in this life or proportioned to the deserts of wicked and impenitent sinners for substraction of grace as to the reprobate in this world or infliction of vengeance as to the danmed in hell Such is the holinesse of God that he can loue no wickednesse but by nature and of necessity doth and must hate all vnrighteousnesse in whomsoeuer Thou art not a God that loueth wickednesse sayth Dauid neither shall euill dwell with thee What fellowship hath righteousnesse with vnrighteousnesse or what communion hath light and darknesse What fauour then and allowance should iniquitie finde with God that is the very fountaine and flaming fire of all holinesse To declare Gods perfect hatred against all sinne as well of the faithfull as faithlesse the Scripture witnesseth not only that his soule abhorreth the outrages of the wicked which are an abomination vnto him but also that he is displeased and grieued with the sinnes euen of his elect These things the Lord hateth sayth Salomon yea his soule abhorreth them All these are the things that I hate saith the Lord by the Prophet Zacharie The foolish shall not stand in thy sight thou hatest all them that worke iââ¦iquitie sayth Dauid to God The Lord will abhorre the cruell and deceitfull man Yea God is displeased and grieued with his owne when they sinne against him The Lord saw it sayth Moses and was stirred to anger with the prouocation of his sonnes and his daughters When Dauid had slaine Vriah and taken home his wife the thing displeased the eies of the Lord sayth the Scripture Likewise when he numbred the people God was displeased with that deed Esay remembring the mercies of the Lord towards the house of Israel sayth hee was their Sauiour in all their troubles he was troubled and the angell of his presence saned them but they rebelled and grieued the spirit of his holinesse The Apostle confirmeth the same Grieue not the Holy spirit by whom ye are sealed vnto the day of Redemption Then as the loue of all righteousnesse is a naturall and necessarie consequent to Gods holinesse so the dislike and hatred of all sinne is rightly and properly appertinent to his diuine puritie neither must the godly take it for an improper kinde of speech but fully beleeue and plainely confesse that God is truely and greatly displeased with their sinnes lest in their hearts they bring him within compasse of liking or allowing their vncleannesse and when they repent they must not onely tremble at the prouoking of so righteous and fearefull a Iudge but chiefly sorrow for the displeasing and offending the holinesse of so gratious and louing a father This dislike and detestation of disobedience euen in his owne children which God of his holinesse hath the Scripture often expresseth by the name of Anger though no punishment follow The Lord was very angrie with Moses sayth the Scripture when he so long refused to goe at Gods appointment to deliuer the children of Israel out of Aegypt God was likewise verie angrie with Aaron and Miriam his sister for speaking against Moses though Aaron was not punished for it and Miriam quickely healed of her leprosie So God himselfe professed to Eliphaz the Temanite saying My wrath is
of Christ the perfection of whose confidence and patience hee would demonstrate to Angels and men and propose him a paterne to all the Sonnes of God how to humble themsââ¦lues vnder the mightie hand of God and accept his obedience vnto death as a most precââ¦ous and pleasing satisfaction and sacrifice for the sinnes of his elect and reward his humilitie with vnspeakeable honour in making him Lord and Iudge of all both men and Angels not onely to confound the pride and suppââ¦esse the power of Satan but to adiudge him to euerlasting torments with all the wicked and accursed Against the tenor and effect of this Christian confession which I referre to the iudgements of all that be learned rightly instructed in the sacred Scriptures I neuer speake any one word to my knowledge I cannot in euery sentence repeate euery circumstance nor of euery page make a paire of Indentures much lesse may I forsake the forme of holsome words deliuered in the Scriptures But the maine summe and scope of this doctrine being so fully declared and so often repeated by me I had no reason to feare the capacity or doubt the memorie of any heedfull Reader And howsoeuer some shallow trifler may picke out a word heere and there to carpe at yet are there so many cleere places to direct all doubts that no man needeth to stumble but he that will not or can not stand vpright For let the Christian Reader looke but to the marke at which I aime in euery place and remember these two rules that of three sorts of death which onely are mentioned in the Scriptures as the wages of sinne to wit corporall spirituall and eternall death I alwayes remoue the two last from the person of Christ by describing or naming the first which was his corporall death and in that I conteine the whole course and maner of his death that is the feares forrowââ¦s shames temptations derisions smarts and paines which the Scriptures record in the history of his death and all my words will prooue plaine and easie which this maâ⦠thinketh so false in themselues so contrary to themselues Examine my words which he hath brought for examples of contradiction and falsity and see whether his labour be any more than meere nugation and vanitie Aââ¦ouching and prouing that Christ could not suffer eternall damnation which is the full wages of sinne nor the death of the soule which by the Scriptures must exclude Christ from the fauour and grace trueth and spirit of God and giuing the reasons why sinne could not preuaile vpon his person as it did vpon others I conclude What maruell then if sinne which should haue wrought in vs an eternal destruction both of bodie and soule could not farther preuaile in him that is to none other kinde of death but to the wounding of his flesh and shedding of his blood for the iust and full satisfaction of all our sinnes euen in the righteous and sincere iudgement of God In this I free Christ from eternall destruction or death of bodie and soule which was the wages of sinne in our persons but could not take holde on his as the difference there betwixt him and vs declareth I exempted him by proofs in the page precedent from the death of the soule which was the maine scope of that section and so leââ¦t him subiect onely to the third kinde of death which was corporall and might be suffered not onely without all taint of sinne losse of grace and change of Gods fauour but euen with great manifestation of Gods power and wisdome in his death and commendation of Christs obedience and patience vnto death That third kinde of death I doe not name but describe by the wounding of Christes flesh and shedding of his blood the rest of his paines and griefes that went bââ¦fore not being excluded as superfluous but continued and increased by that sharpe and ââ¦xtreame martyrdome which he endured on the crossâ⦠as my caueat touching Christs Crosse did plainly admonish And since the whole maner of Christes dââ¦ath and shedding his blood expressed in the Scriptures is the thing that I alwayes intend and the word doth import when I name or touch the death of Christ all that he voluntarily or violently suffered when he yeelded himselfe to be put to death ââ¦s comprised in the mention of his death Besides that Christ by his bloody sweat in the garden beganne of his owne accord in some sort to effuse his blood for our sakes and safeties and the efore it could haue no iust reason to imagine that my words exclude his agonie and other passions of the soule mentioned in the Scriptures specially my very next words affirming that the same part might and did suffer in Christ which sinned in man to wit the soule though by no meanes it could receiue the same wages which we should haue receiued But I professe by the generall title of my Sermons the full redemption of mankinde by the death and blood of Christ and commend the jââ¦ce and fruit of his bodily death as most sufficient That indeed is very dangerous to your fansie who hold the ioynt sufferings of Christes soule from and by his body not properly to pertaine to mans redemption for that they are common to men with beasts and therefore labour to frustrate all the words of the Holy Ghost deliuered in the Scriptures as improper and impertinent to our saluation but to me there can be no danger in the trueth nor doubt of the fruit or force of those things which the spirit of God so often and euidently commendeth vnto vs in the ââ¦acred Scriptures as the price of our redemption and meanes of our reconciliation to God In Christ sayth Paul we haue redemption by his blood euen the remission of our sinnes Redemption by Christs blood you will and must gââ¦ant the Holy ghost doth directly auouch it but whether that redemption be full and most sufficient which is purchased by the blood of Christ you doe make some doubt or els you need not sticke at my words which import so much Of that if you doubt you must beare the name of some other sect and not of a Christian for no Christian may doubt whether the redemption which we haue by the blood of Christ be fââ¦ll and suffââ¦cient or no. To make Christ in part a Sauiour is to make him in part no Sauiour contrary to S Peter who sayth There is no saluation in any other If you will deââ¦iue our whole redemption from him but not from his blood shed for vs then giue you S. Iohn the lie who sayth The blood of Iesus Christ clenseth vs from all sinne Clensing from all sinne is full and perfect redemption from sinne and sinne being fully remitted and purged there is no cause of breach betweene God and vs that should hinder our saluation Christ by his owne blood sayth Paul entred once into the holy place hauing purchased eternall
ouerright him and well obserued him to pronounce that he was the Sonne of God What now hath Ierom offended I pray you in noting that which S. Marke writeth that the Centurion hearing Christ say to his Father Into thy hands I commend my spirit ET STATIM SPONTE and foorthwith of his owne accord to haue giuen vp the ghost mooued with the greatnesse of this wonder said truely this man was the Sonne of God I vrge Ierom you say against the plaine text in an other place which saith When the Centurion sââ¦w the Earthquake the things which were done he said truly this man was the Sonne of God If Ierom should haue falsified one text as you haue done to out-face an other he were worthy to be blamed but your libertie to iudge of the Scriptures at your pleasure must excuse you What hath Ierom said in those words which Saint Marke and S. Luke in effect did not before him That the lowde voyce which Christ vsed presently before his yeelding vp the ghost was that prayer which Ierom mentioneth S. Luke witnesseth And speaking those words saith S. Luke Christ gaue vp the ghost That was a very strange and marueilous thing to the Centurion to heare him so speake and see him so die Saint Marke obserueth The Centurion seeing that crying in such sort Christ gaue vp the ghost said Surely this man was the Sonne of God Could it mooue the Centurion that had the charge to see Christ executed to this confession and not seeme strange vnto him Pilate that gaue sentence of death vpon him Marueiled he was so soone dead and doe you thinke it much S. Ierom should say it was a wonder But in S. Matthew it is expresly noted that the Earthquake chiââ¦ly did mooue the Centurion so to thinke and speake Saint Marke saith The Centurion that stoode ouer-right Christ and beheld him when hee saw in what sort hee cried and died said Truely this was the Sonne of God After his death the Earthquake and other things that followed the death of Christ caused the Centurion and his Souldiers as they were keeping Iesus now dead greatly to feare and with one voyce now to confesse that surely he was the Sonne of God Both which reports stand true together the one not ouerthrowing the other For the Centurio alone at the hearing of Christs voyce and sight of his death did first affirme it Afterward when Christ was dead as the Centurion and his souldiers kept his body on the Crosse till Pilates pleasure were knowen the wonders which followed Christs death as the shaking of the earth the cleauing of the rockes and opening of the graues made the Centurion and those that were with him watching Iesus greatly to feare and with one mind to say Truely this was the Sonne of God So that your words HE SAID meaning thereby the Centurion are not in S. Matthew but the Centurion and those that were with him SEEING the wonders that followed Christs death greatly feared saying Truely this man was the Sonne of God And had the Centurion seene nothing wonderfull in Christs person before he died how should hee and the rest haue gathered certainely that these things declared Christ and none other to be the Sonne of God But Christ suffering all things with silence and patience till the instant of his death he then shewed himselfe to die with a strange and diuine power aboue mans nature which the Centurion first marked and therefore confesââ¦ed him to be the Sonne of God when the rest of the wonders that followed the death of Christ were perceiued they confirmed him and all his souldiers in the same opinion yea all the people that came to that sight beholding the things which were done smote their brests and returned Where S. Luke also putteth a manifest difference betwixt the Centurion and the rest of the people Of the Centurion hee saith ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã seeing what was done in that Christ praying gaue vp the ghost hee glorified God and said truely this man was iust Of the rest Saint Luke saith ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã Beholding the sundry things that were done after Christs death they stroke their brests and returned This miraculous and diuine power which appeared in the person of our Sauiour breathing out his soule at an instant when he would and as he would besides and beyond the nature of man at which the Centurion so much wondered the best Diuines of all ages haue likewise obserued and acknowledged So that you haue small cause to conceiue you can take Bernard tardie in a tale in such sort as you doe as if his age were too young or his wits too weake to encounter your worth He sayth indeede to die was a great infirmitie but so to die as Christ did was a great or an infinite power Where shewing your selfe to be sharpe sighted in toyes and heauie headed in trueth you aske which is this infinite power Christs tasting the vineger or his saying it is finished or his bowing the head or his giuing vp the ghost Had you not tasted so much the vineger of your owne conceits that you can scant lift vp your head to looke on any thing but lees you might easily haue seene what Bernard sayth and that he sayth no more then the best learned Fathers in Christes Church said before him Solus potestatem habuit ponendi animam suam nemo ââ¦am abstulit ab eo incââ¦to capite factus obediens vsque admortem tradidit spiritum Quis tam facile quando vult dormit magna quidem infirmit as mori sed planè sic mori virtus immensa Solus potestatem habuit ponendi qui solus facultatem aeqne habuit liberam resumendi imperium habens vitae mort is Christ alone had power to lay downe his soule none tooke it from him Bowing his head being obedient vnto death he gaue vp the ghost Who can so easily sleepe when he will To dic was a great infirmitie but so to die was plainely an exceeding power Hââ¦e onely had power to lay downe his soule who onely had like free power to take it againe hauing the rule of life and death Long before Bernard S. Austen sayd as much whose words you say being granted necessarily conclude nothing for my purpose They shew nothing but Christs voluntarie dying and that at his death he shââ¦ed great power which you denie not Were it infirmitie in you that you could not vnderstand S. Austens words it were the lesse to be misliked but being an insolent concâ⦠of your selfe that will quarrell with Scriptures and Fathers least you should be conuinced of a manifest errour this hath neither trueth nor touch of any Religion That Christ died VOLVNTARIE and shewed GREAT POVVER AT HIS DEATH S. Austen you grant auoucheth and you because you can wind those wordes at your will doâ⦠not denie them but were you as carefull to take Saint Austens words in their
speechlesse we die that are of the earth but he which came from heauen breathed out his soule with a loud voice We must say it was a shew of his diuine power to lay downe his soule when he would and to take it againe Yea the Centurio hearing him say to hiâ⦠Father Into thine hands I commend my spirit statim sponte spiritum dimisisse and straightway of his own accord to send forth his spirit mooued with the GREATNES of this WOONDER said Truly this was the Sonne of God Chrysostome vpon these words of Matthew Iesus crying with a loud voice gaue vp the ghost sayth Idcirco magna voce clamauit vt ostendat haec sua potestate fieri Therefore Christ cried with a loud voice that he might shew this to be done by his owne power Marke sayth Pilate maruââ¦lled if he were alreadie dead And the Centurion also THERââ¦FORE CHIEFLY beleeued because he saw Christ die of his owne accord and power Victor of Antioch vpon the like words of Marke sayth By so doing the Lord Iesus doth plainly declare that he had his whole life and death in his owne free power Wherefore Marke writeth that Pilate not without admiration asked if Christ were yet dead addidit item ea potissimum de causa Centurionem credidisse he added likewise that the Centurion chiefly for that reason beleeued because he saw Christ giue vp the ghost with a loud crie and signification of great power Leo noting that Christ died not for lacke of helpe but of determinatâ⦠purpose sayth Quae illic vitae intercessio sentienda est vbi anima potestate est emissa potestate reuocata What intreatie for life shall we thinke there was where the soule was both sent out with power and recalled with power Fulgentius Cum ergo homo Christus tantam accepââ¦rit potestatem vt cum vellet animam poneret cum vellet denuò resumeret quantam potuit habere Christi diuinitas potestatem Ideo autem ille homo potestatem animae habuit quia cum diuina potestas in vnitatem personae suscepit Where then the man Christ receiued so much power that he might lay downe his soule when he would and take it againe when he would how great power might the Godhead of Christ haue and therefore the manhood of Christ had power to lay downe his soule because the diuine power admitted him into the vinitie of person Sedulius Animam protinus suam sancto de corpore volens ipse deposââ¦it Christ himselfe forthwith vpon his prayer willingly layd off his sacred soule from his bodie Nonnius in his Paraphrase vpon S. Iohns Gospell expresseth the saying of Christ None taketh my soule from me in these words No birth-law taketh my soule from me no incroching time that tameth all things nor Necessitie which is vnchangeable counsell ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã but ruler of my selfe I of mine owne accord yeeld vp my willing soule Beda vpon that place of Matthew And Iesus crying with a loud voice sent out or gaue vp his spirit writeth thus Quod autem dicit emisit spiritum ostendit diuinae potestatis esse emittere spiritum vt ipse quoque dixerat nemo potest tollere animam in that the Euangelist saith Christ sent out his soule or spirit he sheweth it is a point of Diuine power to send out the soule as Christ himselfe sayd None can take my soule from me Nullus enim habet potestatem emittendi spiritum nisi qui animarum conditor est For none hath power to send out the soule but he that is Creator of soules Which Bede buildeth vpon the words of S. Matthew who saith that Christ crying with a loud voice ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã dismissed or sent his soule from him Theophylact Iesus crieth with a loud voice that we should know it was true which he sayd I haue power to lay downe my soule for not constrained but of his own accord he dismissed his soule And the Centurion seeing that he breathed out his soule so like a Commander of death WONDERED and confessed him ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã for he died not like other men but as the Master of death Lyra vpon these words of Matthew Iesus againe crying with a loude voice sent forth his soule Whereby it appeareth that voice was not naturall but MIRACVLOVS because a man afflicted with great and long torment and through such affliction neere to death could not so cry by any strength of nature The latter writers concurre with the older in this obseruation Erasmus in his Paraphrase vpon Saint Luke Iesus when with a mighty cry he had said Father into thy hands I commend my spirit breathed out his soule to make it manifest to all that he did not faint as others doe the strengh of the body by little and little decaying but straightway vpon a strong cry and words distinctly pronounced laid downe his life as of his owne accord And the Centurion who stood ouerright as a Minister and witnesse of his death and had seene many dye with punishment when he saw Iesus besides the manner of other men after a strong cry presently to breath out his soule said truely this man was the Sonne of God Musculus That Christ sent foorth hiâ⦠soule with aloude voice is a proofe of greater power then may be found in a man dying Whereby he shewed that he layed of his soule of his owne accord answerable to that I haue power to lay downe my soule and to take it againe To which end Iohn saith that bowing his head he gaue vp the Ghost Others first dye and then their heads fall but he first layeth downe his head and then of his owne accord deliuereth his soule vp to his Father Gualter But let vs see the manner of Christs death who as Iohn writeth with bowing downe his head yelded his Spirit Luke saith he cryed with a loude voice Father into thy hands I commend my Spirite Concurrunt hââ¦c non obscura Diuinitatis argumenta Here find we manifest arguments of his Diuinitie which the Centurion and others obserued as some of the Euangelists witnesse First this cry and distinct pronouncing of his last words sheweth a power and vertue MORE THEN HVMANE For we know that men dying so faint that the most of them cannot speake be it neuer so softly Againe he dyeth when he will himselfe yea and layeth of his soule with authoritie to shew himselfe Lord of life and death which is an euident proofe of his Diuine power It is profitable for vs diligently to marke the Diuine power of Christ which shewed it selfe so plainly in his death Marlorat vpon the words of Mathew and Iesus crying againe with a loud voyce sent foorth his spirit saith Declarat hic Christus maiestatem suam Christ declareth here his Maiestie that he layeth downe his soule not when men constraine him but when he himselfe will
dull conceite or eger stomacke rather betrayed by your foolish rolling to so many what ifs then my reason any way refuted I alter you will say the order of it Though I spake then more shortly then now I doe because I had no leasure to stand so long thereon yet he that will Reade but the third part of that Section whence you take this shall finde the very same parts and words that now I vse there contained and expressed But I afterward defend the proposition with the condition annexed to bee simplie true When I saw your humour was so franticke that not vnderstanding my words you would presently pronounce them in the view of the whole Realme to be a notorious Paradoxe and impietie I bid you take your vttermost aduantage of my words and as they stoode though that were not my first intent they were sound and good and your impugning them was prophane and false I yet auouch the same For where the Scriptures teach no Redemption but by the death and bloud of Christ your other deuââ¦sed Redemptions by the death of the soule and paines of Hell I account no better then false and prophane And therefore if our soules be not that way redeemed which the Scriptures reueile which is by the death and bloud of Christ they are not redeemed at all And being not at all redeemed I would faine know by the best of your skill what benefit of Redemption our bodies shall or can haue more then the bodies of Infidels Yea set that redemption aside which the Scriptures attribute to the death and bloud of Christ and neither bodie nor soule can be saued but infidelity and the wages therof I meane damnation both of soule and bodie preuaile in all men So that you were not well in your wits when with such an heat and huffe you cried out What a Pradoxe is it yea what impietie But I must chuse whether I will speake this sophistically or absurdly you say Is it any sophistrie or absurditie to speake as the Spirit of God speaketh in the Scriptures Your MEERE bloud of Christ is indeed absurd Sophistrie for you imagine by that word that Christ shed his bloud for our sinnes without any meritorious action or passion of the soule concurring which in the Redeemer of the world was so impossible as nothing more If I speake otherwise than the Scriptures speake take your pleasure at it so you bring reason for it but whe I keepe my selfe within the compasse of their speech your aââ¦ouching that I speake Sophisticallie or absurdlie reprocheth the Scriptures whom I follow In either of those points which you impugne as that our soules are redeemed by the bloud of Christ and that our bodies haue not redemption in this life I haue the Scriptures plainly precedent before me and therefore except they speake sophistically or absurdly I in retaining their speech and sense can do neither The difference betwixt the deaths of the faithfull and infidels is a thing well known to me and approoued by me yet must the Apostles words stand true that in this life we haue not the Redemption of our bodies but we must waite for it till the time that all things be restored That Christ hath already purchased and obtained it for vs by his death and passion I make no doubt as also that we rest in hope assured of it but hope which is seene is not hope and though the soules of the Saints retaine a firme faith and full expectance of Gods promise for the raising and Redeeming of their bodies from corruption and in the meane time discerne and feele as well the comfort that is in the death of Gods elect as the great blessings and benefites that follow their death yet their bodies lying in dust haue no shew nor sense thereof much lesse haue they that which Paul calleth the Redemption of the body From which words Saint Austen collecteth very truely Si Redemptio corporis nostri secundum Apostolum expectatur profecto quod expectatur adhuc speratur nondum tenetur If the Redemption of our body by the Apostles doctrine must be wayted for that which is expected is still hoped for but not yet obtained Take then the Redemption of the body for the incorruption of the same as Paul doth whom in that point I followed and tell me what benefite of incorruption which is the word you so much storme at the bodies of the faithfull haue more then the bodies of infidels You range aside as your manner is to the ceasing of sinne in the godly and their resting from labours as also the entrance of their soules into heauen as if the bodies of the wicked did sinne in their graues or were tossed with troubles when they were dead and rotten or in the Saints your sight did not serue you to distinguish their soules from their bodies For when I say as Paul sayth their bodies haue not yet redemption you replie their soules after death haue an entrance into heauen Euen so when I say that the death of the bodie to the saints is a part of that wrath curse and punishment which God inflicted on all mankinde for their sinne in Adam as shall after God willing more largely appeare you oppose the benefits which God of his peculiar goodnesse towards his children hath reserued for them after they haue obediently and patiently submitted themselues to his diuine pleasure in bringing their bodies to corruption for the sinne that dwelleth in them And thus by your mangling of matters you confound in the godlie their soules with their bodies and in God himselfe his iustice against sinne with his mercy towards his owne You might haue learned of S. Austen rightly to seuer them as he doth though you crosse him in this as in most of the things that are in question betwixt vs. Quamuis bonis conferatur per mortem plurimum boni vnde nonnulli etiam de bono mortis congruenter disputaverunt tamen hinc quae praedicanda est nisi misericordia Dei quòd in bonos vsus conuertitur poena peccati Though much good come to the godlie by death whereupon some haue accordingly written of the benefits of death yet what els in this must we acknowledge but the mercie of God that the punishment of sinne is turned to good vses And so that ancient writer of the booke Hypognosticôn amongst S. Austens works Vt moriantur homines poena peccati est vt reuertantur ad vitam Domini miserantis est That men die is the punishment of their sinne that they returne to life againe is the Lords mercie Before you depart from this point that not the bloud of Christ nor his flesh without respect to the merit of his whole soule was the full price of redemption you will shew how sundrie of the ancient Fathers doe agree with you sufficiently in this matter though afterwards in my booke I seeme to bring them against you If
at his death as all his life long had both a body and a perfect reasonable and humane soule indued with all the powers affections and infirmities of mans nature saue sinne and the corruption of sinne yet is it no consequent with Ambrose that Christs soule was made of a woman as his flesh was nor that Christ died the death of the soule when his body died on the Crosse. Let them doubt saith Ambrose of that which the Prophet saith my soule hateth your new Moones and Sabboths This that is testified in the Gospel therefore the Father loueth me because I lay downe my soule to take it againe they can not refute to bee spoken of the proprietie of the soule when as it is spoken of the Lords death and resurrection The bodie of Christ could not die but by laying downe his soule as also it could not rise to life but by taking it againe So that both Christes death and his resurrection doe cleerely prooue that he had a true soule as Ambrose noteth which by his death was seuered from his body and by his resurrection was assumed againe into his body And yet that death was proper to Christs body and not to his soule though the soule felt the smart and sting thereof as well before as when it departed from his body Corpus est quod amit tit animam amittendo fit mortuum it a mortui vocabulum corpori competit Porro si resurrectio mortui est mortuum autem non aliud est quà m corpus corporis erit resurrectio It is the body saith Tertullian that looseth the soule and by loosing it dieth so that the word dead agreeth to the body Now if the resurrection be of that which was dead and nothing can be dead besides the body Resurrection must likewise pertaine to the body This death and this resurrection I meane of the body was found in Christ yours is very strange to Ambrose and to all the Fathers Per quam nisiper corporis mortem mortis vincula dissoluit By what other death saith Ambrose then by the death of the body did Christ breake the bands of death Thus haue you spent your great store of Fathers with small successe and though you dissemble where you borrowed them yet you dissemble not your excessiue bragging of them as if they were cleane against me and for you in the chiefest point of this question where indeede you doe but reach after a word in them here and there and that not rightly conceaued or not rightly translated from whence you would faine inferre your fansies saue that neither the grounds of trueth nor learning will beare you out in your conclusions That Christs sufferings did belong to bodie and soule the Fathers affirme whether by Sympathie or without Sympathie they say nothing much lesse that Christ suffered in minde distinctly from soule or bodie Nazianzene saith he assumed mans mind at his incarnation that thereby he might sanctifie it besides him not one of your places so much as nameth the minde As for Gods immediate hand punishing the soule of Christ in his passion if you should fast till you find that in these or any other Fathers you should fast not fourtie dayes but yeares And as though these were not falsities enough to loade the Fathers with you hoyse vp the top sayle of vntrueth and flant it out that these Fathers say Christ suffered all these paines which els we should haue suffered and was spared in nothing plainely belying your Authors which say no such thing and out-facing your Reader as if his sight did not serue him to seuer your shamefull additions from the texts of those ancient writers Cyrill sayth Christ suffered all things that is all naturall and innocent infirmities and passions of bodie and soule as Cyrill explaineth himselfe in the same Chapter yea in the close of the very same sentence to whose words you adde of your owne WHICH els we should haue suffered Only you ioyned them at first so cunningly to Cyrils sentence hauing two parts that a man could not readily tell to which you referred this addition saue that now in the recapitulation of your proofes you apparantly tie them to the former For if you made Cyrill to say Christ suffered to free vs from all which els we should haue suffered that assertion is verie true onely these last words are yours and not Cyrils If you make him to say Christ suffered all which els we should haue suffered this hath neither trueth in it nor any colour in Cyrils text Ierome indeede saith Christ suffered that which we ought to haue suffered meaning what Christ suffered was due to vs and not to him but Ierome is farre from your all which els we should haue suffered Your sleight then in collecting your conceits from the Fathers sayings is woorth the obseruing Nazianzene sayth Christ in his incarnation assumed mans mind to sanctisie it Cyrill saith Christ SVFFERED ALL the infirmities and passions of mans nature Ierome sayth That which was due to vs for our sinnes Christ suffered for vs. And Tertullian saith God spared not his owne Sonne but deliuered him for vs that is God spared him not from deliuering Out of these foure places hauing different causes ends and respects for which to which in which they were written you clout this conclusion as common to them all which is repugnant to euery one of them that Christ IN MIND so saieth Nazianzene SVFFERED ALL so saith Cyrill WHICH VVAS DVE TO VS so saith Ierome WITHOVT SPARING so saith Tertullian By this order and manner of hudling and hampering different things and diuerse places together you may collect what you will when you will and out of whom you will and this is your cleare and plaine sense of the Fathers against the which you say I can take no exception After this you fal againe to your first trench more of termes and wandering a while about the phrases of Gods proper wrath the true and right punishment of sinne two countenances in Christ and the coincidence of his soule and spirit you would faine conclude if you could that if Christ suffered the wrath of God for vs he suffered the true paines of hell which I auouched you neuer should be able to doe Whether I or you abuse the Reader with ambiguous and doubtfull words I leaue to his iudgement that taketh the paines to peruse what is past and what followeth truely I disaduantage my selfe very much so precisely to diuide distinguish and prooue euery thing as I doe if I ment to slide away with generalities But you that neither can nor will specifie any parts nor bring any proofes of your chiefest assertions but keepe your selfe safe vnder the shelter of certaine phrases deuised by your selfe without any warrant of Scriptures or Fathers and neuer expounded nor defined in all your writing saue onely with AS IT VVERE and after a sort what meaning you can haue to handle so great
or amended then was he not punished for correction On the other side much lesse did God purpose to destroy Christs person being his owne and onely Sonne as he doth the wicked whose bodies and soules he will destroy in hell and consequently Christ was not punished to destruction That is proper to the reprobate whose persons God hateth and leaueth in their sinnes that they may prouoke his iust wrath to their vtter destruction Then was Christ neither punished as the godly are for amendment nor as the wicked are for vengeance and so your partition is false and defectiue and all your collections grounded thereon are like the foundation that is voide of all strength and trueth What then was Gods purpose in punishing Christ for our sinnes euen that which you alwayes passe by with deafe and dull eares though it be often repeated and vrged vnto you because you will not be turned from the trade of your hellish paines Why God would not haue man redeemed but by the death and passion that I call the punishment of Christ Iesus the Scriptures yeeld many causes though of Gods will no cause may be required some respecting God himselfe some concerning Christ and some regarding vs. Touching God the crosse of Christ doth commend his wisdome shew his power manifest his loue content his holines preserue his iustice Christ crucisied as Paul sayth is the power of God and the wisdome of God to them that are saued howsoeuer the crosse of Christ seeme foolishnesse and weakenesse to them that perish Then to controle the carnall wisdome of the world and to confound the pride and strength of Satan and his members God would vse the basenesse and feeblenesse of the Crosse in sauing his elect Also to witnesse his loue towards vs he decreed the same So God loued the world that he gaue his onely begotten Sonne to be an offering and a sacrifice of a sweet smelling sauour vnto God With which Sacrifice the holinesse of God resteth so well pleased that he accepteth vs as holy and sanctified by the oblation of the bodie of Iesus Christ once made The vpholding of Gods Iustice by the death of Christ is often specified in the Scriptures By a man came death and by a man the resurrection from the dead Him that knew no sinne God made sinne for vs to wit a sacrifice for sinne that wee should be made the righteousnesse of God in him Therefore it was expedient that one man should die for the people and that the whole Nation perished not He was wounded for our transgressions and by his stripes are wee healed The Lord layed vpon him the iniquitie of vs all And where a Testament is there must be the death of the Testator for a Testament is confirmed when men are dead So that by the Scriptures themselues God decreed the Crosse of Christ in mans redemption to reueale his wisdome power and loue to the world and wholly to satisfie his holinesse and iustice which were thorowly displeased and prouoked with mans disobedience but as thorowly recompensed and appeased by the submission and obedience of Christ. As for Christ himselfe it is euident by the Scriptures that his enduring the crosse declared his obedience patience humilitie charitie perfection and power in more effectuall maner than without it he could haue done For therein he emptied and humbled himselfe and became obedient vnto death euen to the death of the crosse When hee was reuiled he reuiled not againe when he suffered he threatned not He was oppressed and afflicted yet did he not open his mouth For so he loued vs that he gaue himselfe for vs and greater loue than this hath no man to bestow his life for his friends But God setteth out his loue towards vs that whiles we were yet sinners Christ died for vs. Once then he suffered the iust for the vniust that he might bring vs to God and being consummate through affliction was made the Prince of our Saluation For in that he suffered and was tempted he is able to succour them that are tempted and became a mercifull and faithfull high Priest to make reconciliation for the sinnes of the people And therefore he died and rose againe that he might be Lord of the dead and the liuing and through death destroy him that had power of death euen the diuell On our behalfe it was not needlesse that Christ should die the death of the crosse For besides that we are bought with a price lest we should be our owne euen with the precious bloud of Christ as of a Lambe vnspotted and vndefiled and reconciled to God by the death of his Sonne which couenant is irreuocable being sealed with his bloud by his crosse Christ left vs an example how we should follow his steps and be partakers of his sufferings that when his glorie shall appeare we may be glad and reioyce For it is a true saying if we be dead with him we shall liue with him if we suffer with him we shall raigne with him We are buried then by Baptisme into his death that like as Christ was raised from the dead by the glorie of his Father so we should also walke in newnesse of life knowing this that our olde man is crucified with him that the bodie of sinne might be destroyed that hencefoorth we should not serue sinne He died for all that they which liue should not hencefoorth liue vnto themselues but to him which died for them and rose againe Infinite are the places of Scripture witnessing the causes effects and fruits of Christs death on the Crosse all which this Dreamer must denie or delude before he can defend that Gods purpose in Christes sufferings was only to punish our sinne lying on him For if Gods purposes in appointing Christes Crosse were so acceptable to the Father so honourable to the Sonne and so profitable for man as the Scriptures mention with what face can it be said that God punished his Sonne only for vengeance or that whatsoeuer Christ suffered all his life long specially at his death was verie wrath and vengeance from God properly taken Christ suffered the same things here on earth which the godly likewise do in this life as appeareth by the history of his death and passion and other paines or deaths in Christ the Scriptures doe not specifie Gods counsell in decreeing the Crosse of Christ for mans redemption considering the true desert of our sinne and terrible vengeance prouided for others was varie fauourable and fatherly not ouerpressing the patience of Christes humane nature nor wearying his obedience and had in it farre more gracious and glorious intents and euents than our afflictions can or ought any way to match or approch If then Gods fauour to his elect make their sufferings in this life no wrath nor vengeance nor so much as punishments why should
conceale it and onely skirre at it here and there in SOME KIND OF SENSE Otherwise you offer nothing as yet to the Reader but the proper sufferings of the soule which I trust are not alwaies priuation of grace and exclusion from blisse For so the faithfull should neuer haue any proper sufferings of the Soule or else vtterly loose both the spirit and fauour of God which they neuer doe The other Authoritie which I cite In the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt die the death is not so sound you thinke For am I sure that death here is but the bodyly death onely and no more I no where say that death threatned in these words was onely the death of the body it is one of your rash and rude illations it is none of my assertions I knew that God gaue this Commandement and threatned this punishment as well to Adams posteritie as to his person Otherwise had this prohibition beene made to Adam alone neither could the woman haue beene within the compasse of it who was not then created when this precept was inioyned neither could Adams of-spring haue tasted of death as well as Adam if this penaltie had stretched no farder then to Adams person But he being the roote and stocke of all mankind as he receaued blessings by his creation which should be common to all that descended of him so by his transgression he lost them as well from his Issue as from himselfe and subiected them to the same death and condemnation that he did him selfe when he rebelled against God his Creator Death we see executed on all the children of Adam and therefore we may not doubt but death was threatned to them all before it was inflicted on them Howbeit the commination in this place is like to Gods thââ¦eats in all other places against the transgââ¦ssours of his Law It denounceth what shall ââ¦e due vnto all but it bindeth not God that he shall not haue power to release or mitigate what and to whom pleaseth him In death then here threatned I containe all kinds of death corporall spirituall and eternall either as expressed in the generall name of death which is common to them all or as consequent ech to other and coherent if by Gods goodnes and mercies in Christ Iesus they be not seuered Saint Austen learnedly and truely teacheth the same When it is asked what death God threatned to the first men if they transgressed the Commandement giuen them whether the death of the body or of the soule or of the whole man or that which is called the second death we must answere ALI When therefore God said to the first man what day soeuer yee eate thereof yee shall die the death that threatning contained what soeuer death there is euen vnto the last which is called the second death and after which there is none other If any man stand more strictly on the time and kinde of death when and which Adam should die by this Commination Saint Austen hath an other answere In that which was said yee shall die the death because it was not said deaths if we vnderstand that onely death whereby the soule is forsaken of her life which to her is God for she was not forsaken that she might forsake but she did first forsake that she might after be forsaken though I say we vnderstand that God denounceth this death when he said what day yee eate thereof yee shall die the death as if God had said what day yee forsake me by disobedience I will forsake you by iustice Surely in that death were the rest denounced which without Question were to follow For euen in that a disobedient motion rose in the flesh of the Soule disobeying for which they couered their priuie parts one death was perceaued wherein God forsooke the Soule And when the Soule forsooke the body now corrupted with time and wasted with age an other death was found by experience which God mentioned to Man when punishing sinne he said earth thou art and to earth shalt thou returne that by these two deaths that first death of the whole man might be accomplished which the second death at last doth follow except man be deliuered by the grace of God By Saint Austens iudgement concording with the Scriptures God threatned all kinds of death to the transgressor the death of the Soule the same houre to take place that he disobeyed the rest to follow in their order as next the death of the body and at last eternall death of body and soule if the grace of God by Iesus Christ did not release and free man from it That the death of the Soule tooke present hold vpon the disobeyers the Scripture giueth testimony sufficient when it noteth their shame feare and flight of Gods presence who before sinne was their delight ioy and blisse The death of the body was a long time differred in Adam euen nine hundred and thirtie yeeres before it did separate his Soule from his Body but it began presently to worke and shew his force in either of their bodies The sentence of mortalitie God called Death saith Theodoret. For after Gods sentence Adam euerie day expected or feared Death Beda saith the like That which God said In what day soeuer thou shalt eate thereof thou shalt die the Death was as if he had said Morti deputatus eris thou shalt be deputed or adiudged to death not that he should that very day die but be mortall Chrysostom imbraceth the same opinion In what dââ¦y soeuer yee shall eate of the tree yee shall die the Death But Adam liued still how then died he By the sentence of God and the nature of the thing it selfe For he that maketh him selfe subiect to punishment is vnder punââ¦shment sinonre tamen sententia If not by deede and execution yet by guiltinesse and sentence pronounced So that if we will rightly conceiue Gods commination to Adam we must so take the words of God as threatning Adam and his posteritie with all kinds of death to which they all should bee subiect as guiltie thereof and deseruing the same though hee would keepe to himselfe the dispencing and moderating thereof not binding himselââ¦e thereby but the offenders as euery supreame Iudge doth on earth after sentence giuen and before execution finished Else if wee ââ¦e God who is trueth it selfe to the rigour and tenor of those words without reseruing power to him to dispose of Adam and Adams of-spring at his pleasure and in the words Thou shalt die the death comprise the execution of all sorts of death which can not be reuoked then we conclude Adam and all his issue without remedie or mercie vnder all sorts of death that is vnder spirituall corporall and eternal death which is not onely an vtter ouerthrow to all Christian ââ¦eligion promising saluation in Iesus Christ but a mecre madnesse against all mankind deuoting them without exception or mitigation to eternall
destruction of body and soule Wee must therefore know that God truely and iustly threatned Adam and in him all mankind to be guiltie of all soââ¦ts of death and to bee thereto subiected as to their due if they transgressed against him but this commination neither included execution of all sorts of death on all mankind nor excluded pardon where pleased God onely thence may rightly bee gathered fiââ¦st that all Adaâ⦠of spring should bee condemned and subiected to the guilt of all as deseruing all the one no lesse then the other Secondly that some of Adams issue should effectuall feele the sting of all which God allotted to the reprobate Thirdly that euen the elect as well as the reprobate should beare in themselues the monuments of this transgression by the corruption dissolution of their nature though the one should in this life bee reformed by the working of Gods spirit in them and the other bee restored after this life by the Resurrection from the dead All these wee finde performed by God in the trueth of his iudgements and therefore we may be sure they were intended at the time of his threatning And consequently this collection is very true that God threating Adam with these words Thou shalt die the death purposed if Adam transgressed that none of his posteritie should escape the death of their bodies to which God foorthwith punishing sinne irreuocably subiected Adam and all his children as Gods owne words declare when he said to Adam and in him to all men Dust thou art and to dust shalt thou returne The iudges reuenge then for sinne which we deserued and to which we were iustly condemned was temporall eternall death of the body and soule heere and in hell But this was not executed on all because some were freed by the fauour of God in Iesus Christ though none excused from a corporall death which prooueth my position the truer that God neuer released sinne to any no not to his owne Sonne without some kind of death It must not be forgotten that here you renounce all satisfaction for sinne in respect of merite as from Christes soule vtterly If you meane I vtterly renounce all satisfaction for sinne as from the death of Christs soule I easily graunt it and would gladly heare what you can say against it because the soule of Christ as I beleeue could not die the death of spirits But if you conceiue that Christes soule had neither part sense nor merit in the death of his body by which satisfaction for sinne was fully made it is the weamishnesse of your wit to mistake so much and vnderstand so little I attributed all sense of paine as well in death as other wise to the soule of Christ and the death of his body I communicated to his soule by reason it is a separation of the soule from the body not thereby to bee depriued of sense or grace which Christes soule could not be but therein to feele the paine and sting which the death of the body brought with it I tolde you but the leafe before out of Austen that the paine which is called bodily belongeth rather to the soule and that the paine of the flesh is only the offending or afflicting the soule by the flesh Wherefore I made the soule of Christ to be the principall agent in all his meriting and patient in all his suffering and though the soule of Christ could not pay the satisfaction for our sinnes by her death because shee could not die yet that is no impediment but the soule of Christ might haue and had the chiefest paine sense and merit in the death of Christes bodie by which the whole person made full satisfaction for the sinnes of the world And this is so farre from renouncing all merit of satisfaction from the soule of Christ as you conceiue that it ascribeth the whole power and force thereof to the obedience and patience of Christes soule and maketh the bodie the instrument ordeined of God to conuey paine vnto the soule and to lie dead when the soule is departed from it As for Bernards words which I alledge if you did or could tell how they crosse mine I would take the paines to reconcile them now you say they sute not with mine but awake out of your wonted maze and you shall see that I giue the chiefe place and part in the meritorious sacrifice vnto the soule of Christ which you dreame I doe not as also that you neither like nor allow of Bernards words For he declaring the cause and maner why and how Christes minde was afflicted in his passion sayth it was with a double affection of most humane compassion on the one side for the vncomfortable griefe of the holy women on the other for the desperation and dispersion of his disciples These causes you reiect as fond and absurd and now you would seeme to ioyne with Bernards words But you must say of him as you doe of Ambrose and pray that mens authorities may be omitted in this case for all the Fathers of Christes church are vtter strangers or enemies to your new doctrine That nothing may satisfie for sinne but death is not sound the Scriptures doe shewe indeede that Christ should not satisfie without death but they denie not that there are other parts of Christs satisfaction which differ from his death as his bloodshedding his shame his reproches his apprehension his buffeting and besides that pouertie hunger and wearines These doubtlesse yea all other sufferings of Christ what soeuer small or great are satisfactorie and meritorious That all Christes actions and passions were meritorious with God I haue no doubt but that all his sufferings as well naturall as voluntarie did euery one small or great satisfie for sinne This is a speech of yours which except it be well qualified hath in it an whole heape of absurdities and contrarieties For if the least and the first thing that Christ suffered either naturally or voluntarily did satisfie for sinne superfluous were all the rest to our redemption when God was once satisfied And so by his birth or circumcision you graunt a Supersedeas to all his life and death as needelesse to our redemption Then the which what can be more repugnant to the word of God and faith of Christ and euen to your selfe who by this meanes make your hell paines of no importance to our saluation By satisfaction you meane not full satisfaction but that which any way tendeth to satisfaction or is requisite before satisfaction can be made It is easie and often with you to abuse words though you talke much of their proprietie What is Satis in Latine whence to satisfie commeth but enough and what is enough for sinne but after which more is not requisite If then Christ satisfied that is did or paide enough for sinne by the first of his sufferings then all that followed as I inferred were more then enough and consequently
superfluous That you will say is the proper and strict signification of the word satisfie but you take it more largely For the abuse of words I will not greatly striue so you build thereon no impieties howbeit when I say that nothing might satisfie for sinne but death I take satisfaction properly for the last and full payment after which no more was due for sinne and that apparantly by the Scriptures was the death of Christ before which the rest was not sufficient and after which no more was required by the righteous will and counsell of God So that although the obedience and patience of Christ all his life long did tend to satisfaction and made way for satisfaction as his hunger wearinesse pouertie and such like yet none of these did satisfie for sinne or acquite vs from sinne by the verdict of the holy Scripture but Christ after all these must yeeld himselfe to suffer that kind of death which the iustice of God should appoint and ordaine before we could be freed from our sinnes His blood you thinke did wash vs from all our sinnes Because his blood was shed for vs euen vnto death therefore his bloodshed expresseth the manner of his death as likewise his apprehension buffeting reproches and shame which the Scripture describeth in the order of his death and therefore compriseth vnder the name of his death For by Christes death as I haue often said the Scripture meaneth that kind of death in all respects and circumstances which the Euangelists in their writings report Who will grant in proper speech that those are his death The name of Christs death in the Scriptures containeth all those things which were coincident and concurrent to that death which Christ died for our sinnes according to the Scriptures Neither shall we neede your figure Synecdoche by a part of Christs sufferings to vnderstand all that he felt or suffered from his mothers wombe that is a loose deuise of yours to make any thing of euery thing and so to confound the Scriptures that no man shall knowe either what to beleeue or what to beware For where S. Iohn saith the blood of Christ doth clense vs from all our sinnes by your Synecdoche you imagine that the wine which he dranke at his last Supper the water wherewith he washed his disciples feete the teares which he shed for Lazarus death the iourney which he tooke to Galilee the sleepe which he fetched in the ship the hunger which he sustained in the wildernesse and what not should doe the like since euery thing that befell our Sauiour small or great did satisfie for sinnes as well as his death and passion What els is this but to mayme and mangle the Scriptures which name the blood of Christ to be the price of our redemption and his death the meane of our reconciliation if euerie thing that Christ did or endured shall be of the same force and weight to satisfie for sinne that his bloud and death were His bloud you will say is not his death The shedding of his bloud vnto death which the Scripture intendeth by his bloud is a plaine description of his death This is my bloud sayd he which is shed for many for the remission of sinnes And the rest which were appendants to his death expresse the maner of his death which the wisdome and iustice of God would haue to be full of violence iniurie reproch contempt shame and paine All which as they note the maner of his death so are they inclosed by the Scriptures in the name of his death and that I trust more properly being parts thereof than the naturall infirmities of his bodie as sleepe hunger and wearinesse or the voluntarie euents of his life as the rest of his actions and passions long before the houre came that he should be deliuered into the hands of sinfull men Why may not the proper sufferings of Christs Soule be as well admitted into the worke of Christs satisfaction although his SOVLE COVLD NOT PROPERLY DIE The sufferings of Christs Soule at the time of his death which the Scriptures mention we easily admit into the worke of his satisfaction for sinne but your satis-fiction of hell paines and of the death of Christs Soule we doe not admit because the holy Ghost so diligently describing the whole order and manner of Christs sufferings when he went to his death teacheth no such thing as you falsely collect from certaine words of his and chiefly from his bloody sweate whereof not knowing precisely the cause you surmise what best pleaseth your humor without all warrant of the word of God Prooue therefore by the Scriptures and not by your owne ghesses that Christs Soule suffered these things from the immediate hand of God which you suppose and we shall soone find a place for them in the worke of Christs satisfaction for sinne Till then giue me leaue to expound the Scriptures by themselues and not by your vnioynted and vntidie Commentaries confounding Christs life and death nature and will affections and punishments satisfaction and merits as if they were not different parts of our saluation to take our nature vpon him to worke all righteousnes in our names to suffer a shamefull and painfull death for our sinnes and to obtaine all spirituall and celestiall graces and comforts here and in heauen for vs. The first sinne committed by Adam and our continuall treading in his steps rest yet vndiscussed wherein we should not neede many words if you could or at least would rightly conceaue what is said and not ignorantly or purposely mistake and measure all things by your hastie humor To prooue that Christ must satisfie for sinne by the proper sufferings of his Soule and not with or by his body you brought this reason in your Treatise Whereby Adam first did and we euer since doe most properly commit sinne by the same the second Adam Christ hath made satisfaction for our sinnes But Adam first did and we euer since doe most properly commit sinne in our Soules our bodies being but the Instrument of the Soule and following the Soules direction and will Therefore Christ in his Soule most properly made satisfaction for vs In my Conclusion to your obiections I first denyed your Maior or former proposition For though the Soule of Adam as also our Soules quickly might and worthily did die for sinne and by sinne wherein they were the principall agents yet the Soule of Christ by no warrant of holy Scripture did or could die the death of Spirits and so could make no satisction for sin by her death Now by the Scriptures without death there was no satisfaction for sin and therefore the soule of Christ must satisfie for sinne by the death of her body not by any death proper to her selfe And so much the Scriptures auouch teaching vs that we haue redemption euen the remission of sinnes through his blood are reconciled to God
no sinnes but onely such as Adam did and we still doe commit ioyntly with Soule and body though most properly in the soule the body being her Instrument or accessarie to follow her direction and will And would you wrie and wrangle neuer so much from sinnes common to Soule and Body most proportionably followeth punishment likewise common to Soule and Body though in that common punishment the Soule perceiueth and feeleth greater and grieuouser hurt and smart then the body can doe If now you adde a farder meaning then you there expressed your reason remaineth as weake as it was at first and your new meaning must haue a new answere For which I must pray the Reader to stay till we haue more fully examined Adams fact where you first began and wherein you would seeme to haue some great aduantage Howbeit if you marke well either your own purpose which you offer to prooue or your Assumption which you bring for proofe thereof or my words depending thereon you will haue but a cold suite of all this hoate challenge Your purpose was to prooue that Christs sufferings for sinne must be proper to the Soule and not with from or by the Body which you reiect as common to vs with beasts The reason which you brought for it was that Adam first we euer since so sinned that is MOST PROPERLY in our Soules our Bodies being but the Instruments of our Soules to follow the Soules direction and will Now because your wonted phrase MOST PROPERLY is so loosely set in your assumption that a Man can not tell whether you meane most properly in the Soule together with the Body being the Instrument of the Soule as your words lye or else most properly in the Soule without and besides the Body which is it that you intend must conclude before you can thence inferre the proper sufferings of Christs soule without and besides his body I asked you which of these twaine you ment If the former then Adam first and we euer since committed sinne ioyntly with Soule and Body the Soule being the Principall and the Body her Instrument and accessarie This I said was most true but repugnant to your purpose as I before haue shewed But if you ment OTHERVVISE that Adam transgressed the Commandement of God MOST PROPERLY in his Soule without his Body concurring to the same transgression which is more pertinent to your purpose then you contradicted the fact of Adam and Gods precept both which doe plainly witnesse that Adam disobeyed as well by Body as by Soule If you will needs examine my words vpon this your intention and assumption I am well content That Adam sinned in soule and bodie I say is most true There is my full resolution Against this I neuer goe But if you meant OTHERVVISE that Adam brake the commandement of God not by his body properly but by his soule only as your words most properly might intend then your assumption was a manifest contradiction to the fact of Adam and to the precept of God That the bodie alone without the soule doth or can commit actuall sinne which hath neither life sense motion nor action without the soule is a position so absurd and false that I thought it not woorth the mentioning I asked you then whether you meant that Adam brake the commandement not by his bodie properly as by an instrument to his soule which is proper to the bodie as your selfe confesse but by his soule without his bodie that is by his soule onely For what is by the soule and not by the bodie but by the soule onely I asking you that question of your meaning you as eclipsed of your wits suppose that I say Adam sinned onlie by his bodie and not by his soule as if Adam when he sinned were a body without a soule or his bodie did any thing without the direction and operation of his soule This is therefore a verie foolish dotage of yours to dreame that I defend Adam sinned by his bodie without his soule when I prooue and inferre by Adams fact and Gods precept that Adam transgressed not by his soule only but by his bodie also euen as in murder theft and adulterie these facts men commit by their bodies as instruments and not by their soules alone or without their bodies For can men commit these facts without their bodies or are their bodies requisite as well as their soules before they can commit these facts Adam was as well forbidden ââ¦o desire or like that fruit as to eat it which you denie To proue that Adam sinned not onely by his soule but also by his bodie I brought the words of Gods precept Thou shalt not eat thereof Which commandement since Adam wholly transgressed the words had more in them than the prohibition of desiring or liking and Adams sinne reached farder than to liking or lust euen to the complete fact whereby the commandement of God was thorowly in euerie part of man broken which could not be done without the ioynt actions of Adams bodie Wherefore take backe the heresie of the Pharisees to your ââ¦elfe and bestow it among your friends that haue lent you their labours in this Defence I am not to seeke that Gods law is transgressed as well with heart and tongue as with hand and deed Howbeit I distinguish facts from words and thoughts and auouch that FACTS can not be performed without the bodie And yet are there speciall reasons which you see not why the wisdome of God would not giue this commandement without euident mention of an outward fact For the breaking of this precept was the transgression that should subiect Adam and all his posteritie to the dominion of sinne and death in euerie part of bodie and soule Wherefore God would not haue the first sinne to be secret within the soule alone that all Adams of-spring should openly behold and confesse the wickednesse vnworthinesse and vnthankfulnesse of their first parents that so lightly regarded and presently transgressed the charge and precept that God gaue vnto them Secondly since Adams cariage in this case should be the retaining or loosing of all Gods graces and blessings for him and his children bestowed on man in his first creation the transgression must reach to all the senses and faculties of bodie and soule that should infect and corrupt all the parts and powers of bodie and soule Thirdly the first sinne was to extend as well to bodie as to soule lest the soule sinning should be adiudged to euerlasting death and the bodie not sinning reserued for eternall life and so man be diuided contrarie to his creation the one part in hell and the other in heauen which was vtterly impossible And if Adam after liking had yet remembred Gods precept and threat and so refrained the eating of the forbidden fruit it would trouble your wits to make a true answer whether Adam had obeyed or transgressed the commandement But it sufficeth for my purpose that Adam sinned ioyntly
you that an Emphaticall proposition is all one with a generall The words if you did rightly translate them are not he bare our sorowes themselues the affixe cleaueth to the Verbe and not to the Noune but our sorowes he bare them Where the Pronoune them is a superfluous addition as the best learned in the Hebrue tongue obserue in the like and not an emphasis as you would haue it Foster in his rules before his Hebrue Lexicon sayth the Hebrues often put the Noune before whose case they after repeat by a Pronoune affixed to the Verbe as in Iob. 3. verse 6. That night let darkenesse oppresse it and in the 90. Psalme The dayes of our life they are seuentie Pagnine likewise in his Hebrue Institutions teacheth that many things in the Scriptures are redundant or superfluous as touching the sense which yet grace the speech as in Genesis ca. 1. verse 30. Euery creeping thing in which is the breath of life in it and so Exodus ca. 25. verse 29. Thou shalt make basons with which to couer with them Petrus Martinius in his Hebrue Grammar noteth that Pleonasmus which is a superfluous addition is much vsed in Hebrue as in the first Psalme The wicked are as the chaffe WHICH the winde tosseth it And Iunius There is in the Hebrue tongue a pleonasmus or superfluitie of the Pronoune ioyned with the Verbe as Ierem. 5. verse 5. I will goe I to the great men Cornelius Bertrame in his table of things worthie to be obserued ioyned to Pagnines Hebrue Lexicon newly augmented by Mercer Ceuallere and himselfe sayth The Relatiue and euen the affixe are often redundant or superfluous in Hebrue Whereof the learned Reader may see many examples in the theme Bachar as the citie which I haue chosen it and Dauid whom I haue chosen him and elswhere which I omit for breuities sake S. Peter doth imitate that phrase in Greeke when he sayth By whose his stripes you are healed Our English tongue admitteth the same kinde of speech as if we should say our dayes we waste them in vanitie our bodies we weaken them with intemperance our foes we flatter them our friends we neglect them and such like where the Pronoune following the Verbs repeateth only the words and directeth the cases that went before as the Hebrue affixe doth but addeth no force vnto them Yet grant it were an emphasis doth not an emphasis stand as well to a singular or particucular proposition as to a generall My Redeemer sayth Iob I my selfe shall see and mine eyes shall beholde and none other Here is a triple emphasis and yet the proposition singular Our soule it is exceedingly filled with the mockes of the wealthie Where there are three more emphaticall veheinencies and yet no proofe the proposition should be generall This we conclude the rather because the sense of paines and sorowes onely was the ransome ordained by God in Christ that by them our sinnes should be satisfied This supposall is not true and yet were it admitted it concludeth not that which you vndertooke to proue For there must be more in mans ransome than the sense of paine and sorow only otherwise euerie man might haue beene a Redeemer as well as Christ. You exclude by your adding of ONLY the chiefest waight and worth of our redemption which was the dignitie and innocencie of the person that suffered For as Gods holinesse was infinitely despighted and displeased with our disobedience in Adam and his Iustice thereby infinitely prouoked so in the satisfaction for sinne his Holinesse was to receiue an infinite recompense which was the obedience of his owne Sonne and his Iustice to finde a sufficient barre to breake off the extremitie and perpetuitie of vengeance due to our sinnes Both these the Scriptures expresse in mans ransome as well as the paines The Church of God which he purchased with his owne bloud sayth Paul Where the person of the Purchaser giueth full force to the price that was payd since the bloud of none but of him that was God and man could performe so much Againe in the very price it selfe the innocencie of the Sufferer is a part as well as the patience So Peter auoucheth You were redeemed with the precious bloud of Christ as oâ⦠a Lambe vnd filed and vnspotted It sufficeth not that he was a Lambe he must be vnspotted and vndefiled before he could be accepted for our sinnes Wherefore not the suffering alone but the offering himselfe without spot to God through the eternall spirit purged our consciences from dead workes This you are not willing to heare of who auouch Christ to be sinfull defiled hatefull and accursed by our sinnes but I trust there are few that will forget the doctrine of the Holy Ghost that Christ must be holie innocent vndefiled and separate from sinners before his sacrifice could be accepted for vs to giue eare to your vaine if not wicked illations But admit that suffering onely were the ransome of our sinnes what will follow Ergo Christ suffered all the verie same punishments that were due to vs or which the damned doe suffer Who reasoneth thus but he that is neither acquainted with trueth nor reason I speake not how blasphemous and impious your conclusion is but I aske how it any way hangeth to your antecedent What soeuer in this life might be painfull and was due to mankinde generally for sinne and in it owne nature was no sinne that Christ suffered wholly and altogether for vs euen the same which els we should This lacketh a faire deale of your generall and emphaticall collection which you would force out of Esay as if Christ had borne all our sorowes themselues that is all the same which we should haue borne You of your owne head make here three recantations of that vniuersall proposition which you goe about to proue And if your authoritie stretch so farre I hope I haue as good right to put in S. Peters limitation that Christ bare our sinnes himselfe in his bodie on the tree and S. Iohns that Christ was full of grace and trueth of whose fulnesse we all haue receiued and S. Pauls that Christ was deliuered for our sinnes into the hands of sinners to do whatsoeuer the hand and counsell of God had before determined to be done Put these exceptions to your generall assertion which haue as good interest as any of yours and better than some of yours and inferre what you can Your emphasis will not doe you a penie woorth of good nor me a farthing of hurt For as the death of Christes soule doth defile him with sinne and exclude him from God so the true paines of hell can neither be suffered in this mortall life nor at mens hands nor leaue in Christ any sparke of grace or trueth which are absurdities and impieties enough to breake the greatest beame that is in
of Christ on the Crosse. Now the relatiue following QVOD enim must either be referred to all that went before and so not to malediction apart from the rest or to that which went next before which is the chasticement of our peace And so either way you were ouer bold with your Author to referre his words whether pleased you And farder answere to Ierom there needed none For to no proofe needed no answere And yet what better answere could you haue then for Ieroms meaning since his words are not generall to haue Ieroms conclusion in that very place brought you which best serueth to shew Ieroms intent Of Christs hanging on the Crosse Ierom speaketh noting that to be a cursed kinde of death out of the Apostle which I am farre from denying So doth he of digging Christs hands and feete out of the Psalme and of the rest of Christs wounds and stripes by which we were healed out of the Prophet whom hee expoundeth All which Christ suffered for vs being in deed due to vs for our sinnes Leaue out your falsifying of Ieroms words and sense that whatsoeuer curse was due to vs for our sinnes Christ suffered for vs and I see no cause why Ieroms words should neede any answere That this place of Esaie and the whole Doctrine which I auouch touching these fufferings of Christ may be the better receaued let vs note that the publike Doctrine appointed by Authoritie to be taught throughout England expresseth the same Namely Nowels Catechisme Since the Scriptures which plentifully and plainly teach vs the true price and meanes of our saluation giue no warrant of your new found Doctrine and the whole Armie of Auncient and learned Fathers who could ill instruct the people committed to their charge if they themselues were ignorant of the true meaning of their Creed and Catechisme neuer heard nor thought of your late deuised Redemption by Christs suffering the very paines of hell and the same which the damned doe suffer without any dispensation or Qualification for so it liketh you to speake if you could produce moe new writers of your mind then you doe or can they must pardon me for not admitting any Doctrine touching our Redemption but what I see grounded on the plaine euidence of the Sacred Scriptures and so receaued in the Church of Christ before our Age. I list not to deuise or approue a new Saluation vnknowen till our time and if any man be otherwise minded he shall goe alone for me God grant me to be a member of that Church which hath reuerently receaued and faithfully beleeued the simplicitie of the Scriptures touching our Redemption by the death and bloud of Christ Iesus Howbeit I see many men speake diuersly that meane nothing lesse then your late found hell inflicted by the immediat hand of God on the Soule of Christ. Where then you dreampt in your Treatise as you still doe in your Defence that whosoeuer named the wrath of God in Christs sufferings or called his Crosse a cursed kinde of death was wholy of your side I did in few lines reprooue that folly of yours and since you quoted no speciall words neither out of Master Nowels Catechisme nor out of the Bible appointed publikely to be read in the Churches of this Realme nor out of the Booke of Homilies that were worth the standing on there was no cause why I should wast time to hunt after your meaning If you would haue an answere it was meete you made your Arguments and pressed your Authorities as well as you could and then you should soone see what I said vnto them But as I then foretold so you now performe Your buzzing head no where findeth the wrath of God or horror of Iudgement against our sinne to be apprehended by Christ but you straightway conclude all your conceits from the first to the last These words when I reade them in any man offend not me as they helpe not you except you wrest them after your manner to hide vnder them your new found hell and the rest of your presumptuous and irreligious humours Begin with the Catechisme and see what choise you haue made thence There it is thus taught He payd and suffered the paine due to vs and by this meanes deliuerd vs from the same With Christ as our suretie God dealt as it were with extremitie of law Christ therefore suffered and in suffering ouercame death the paine appointed by the euerliuing God for mans offence What of all this What one worde is here sounding towards the death of the soule or the death of the damned after this life The Catechisme in the very same sentence expressely speaketh of the painefull and reprochfull death which the Iewes inflicted on Christ the manner whereof is orderly described in the next answere before These things sayth the Catechisme the Iewes did vnto him cruelly maliciously and wickedly but Christ willingly of his owne accord suffered ALL THOSE THINGS from the Iewes to appease with this most sweete sacrifice his father offended with mankinde vtque paenas nobis debitas dependeret persolueret atque nos ex illis hoc modo eximeret and to pay and satisfie the punishments due to vs thereby to exempt vs from them Cum Christo quasi sponsore pro nobis sic passo Deus summo quasiiure egit God dealt after a sort seuerely with Christ as with a surety suffering thus for vs but to vs whose sinnes deserued punishments and due paines transtulit in Christum hee transferred on Christ God shewed singular mercie and clemencie All this is plainely referred to the punishments and paines which Christ suffered at the hands of the Iewes by the secret counsell and appointment of God that thereby he might pacifie the wrath of his Father and deliuer vs from the shame paine and death due to our sinnes which God transferred and remoued from vs to Christ that he might suffer them and we be freed both here and hereafter for them Wherein great fauour and mercie were shewed to vs and Christ as it were a Suretie subiected for vs after a sort to the rigour of the Lawe What hurt is there in these wordes if you leaue haling and pulling them from their right sense The Authour of the Catechisme warily forbeareth the generall which you seeke after so greedily and when hee commeth to the places that might seeme harsh he qualifieth them with quasi as it were not meaning to presse those phrases as you doe to the vttermost Wherefore he saith that Christ was quasi sponsor a kinde of suretie suffering for vs and that God dealt with him Quasi summo iure as it were with riger in respect of the lenitie shewed to vs. Which speeches if you poyson them not with your bitter conceits I mislike not so long as they be stretched no further then to SIC passo pro nobis Christ THVS suffering for vs at the hands of the Iewes to which the writer of the Catechisme wisely
the English Translation to be openly reade in the Church confirmeth not the Marginall appositions which may not be read in the Church though they may be receiued so farre as they haue manifest coherence with the Text or consequence from the Text in respect rather of their veritie then Authoritie For these notes at first were not affixed and in sundry editions they haue been altered increased as the Corrector liked euen this note which you alleage somewhat differeth from the Geneuian notes whence this and the most of the rest were taken The words of the Geneuian edition vpon this place are these The word Agonie signifieth that horror that Christ had conceaued not onely for feare of death but of his Fathers Iudgement and wrath against sinne The Printer of the great English Bible or his Corrector ouer against those words of the Text he was in an Agonie setteth this obseruation in the Margine He felt the horror of Gods wrath and iudgement against sinne I refuse not those words as if they gainsaid the Doctrine which I defend but I see no farder ground in them then ghesse when they ayme at the cause of Christs Agonie which the Scripture suppresseth Howbeit let the words stand in their full strength though by no meanes I acknowledge either Authentike or publike Authoritie in them they rather euert then support your opinion The vttermost here ascribed to Christ is HORROR that is a shaking or trembling feare of Gods Iudgement and wrath against sinne which all the godly finde in them selues when they enter into the serious cogitation of Gods holinesse displeased and his Iustice prouoked with their sinnes but this is farre from the death or paines of the damned except you make the vengeance of the Reprobate all one with the repentance of the faithfull This therefore is like the rest of your proofes no way tending to your purpose The feare of Gods wrath against sinne which is common to all the godly in this life though not at all times hath no fellowship with the feare of the Reprobate much lesse with the torments of the damned The one is a religious and godly sorrow for sinne which worketh saluation and yet agniseth with feare and trembling the iustnesse and greatnesse of Gods wrath against sinne the other is the beholding of the terrible and eternall destruction of Body and Soule prepared for them without all hope of ease or end In Christ there might be a double cause of this horror conceaued or felt by him as affections are felt in the Nature of Man the one touching vs the other touching himselfe Christ might tremble and shake at the terror of Gods Iudgement prouided for vs which was euerlasting damnation of Body and Soule in hell fire and the more tenderly he loued vs the greater was his horror to see this hang ouer our heads euen as we naturally tremble to see the desperate daungers of our dearest friends present before our eyes And if Paul said truely of him selfe we knowing the terror of the Lord meaning the terror of the Lords Iudgement against sinne how much more then did the Sauiour of the world know the same the cleare beholding of which might iustly worke in him a manifest horror to teach vs to take heede of that terrible Iudgement at the sight whereof for our sakes he did tremble in the daies of his flesh An other cause of that horror might concerne himselfe For since the wrath and Iudgement of God against our sinne was so terrible to behold that Christ in his humane nature trembled at it how could it but raise an horror in him to know that he must presently receiue in his owne Body the burthen thereof and make satisfaction therefore with his owne smart which how farre it would pearce his patience the weakenes of our flesh in him might well feare and tremble though his spirit were neuer so resolute and ready to endure the most that mans nature in this life could sustaine with obedience and confidence So that either the sight of Gods wrath against sinne due to vs or the satisfaction of the same which Christ was to make might vrge his humane nature to that feare and trembling for the time which these notes obserue and yet neither of these come neere the feare of the wicked or paines of the damned Besides that religious horror and feare is nothing lesse then the paines of hell inflicted on the Soule by the immediate hand of God which is the deuice that you seeke to establish Thus my Text of Scripture is also iustified that Christ gaue himselfe the price of Redemption for vs WHICH ELS VVE SHOVLD HAVE PAYD If wresting adding and altering may be called iustifying then is your sense of that text iustified indeed otherwise there is nothing yet alleadged that any way approueth that meaning of the text which you would inforce The price of our redemption Christ payd not the same which els we should haue payd had we not beene redeemed for so Christ must haue suffered euerlasting damnation of bodie and soule which was the payment exacted of vs but he payd a PRICE for vs that more contented his displeased Father than our euerlasting destruction could haue done You dallie therefore with the doubtfulnesse of the word PAYD which sometimes signifieth the enduring of punishment sometimes the yeelding of recompence The Price of our sinnes which we should haue payd that is the punishment of our sinnes which we should haue susteined was eternall destruction of bodie and soule in hell fire and other payment we could make none This payment due to vs or punishment which we should haue payd the person of Christ could not suffer it is most horrible blasphemy so to speake or thinke but he payd a price for vs that is a SATISFACTION and AMENDS for our sinnes which by no meanes we were able to pay And so much the word ANTILYTRON noteth euen a Price Recompence or Ransome in exchange of the punishment or imprisonment which the captiue should suffer This Price you will say was himselfe I make no doubt that Christ gaue himselfe to die but NOT TO BE DAMNED for our sinnes as we should haue beene Neither can the common custome of redeeming captiues inferre any more than the giuing of a price for the Prisoner And therefore I did iustly aske Who told you that the Scripture here speaketh after the common vse of redeeming Captiues taken in warre And where you answere the nature of the word ANTILYTRON importeth so much which is properly vsed in such cases you vndestand neither the nature of the word neither the maner of our redemption rightly For first the word ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã whence Antilytron commeth properly signifieth a mutuall redemption of ech other as Aristotle obserueth and so we should redeeme Christ as he redeemed vs. Wherefore the word is heere improperly taken and signifieth no more than LYTRON without composition Againe the common vse of
hanged as also he may bee iustly hanged and yet not truely or properly accursed of God The penitent thiefe on the Crosse came deseruedly to his death as himselfe confessed and yet was not thereby truly accursed since he was that day receiued into Paradise His death was an accursed kind of death as also Christes was though the one did blesse and the other was blessed euen vnder that punishment which Christ did willingly and the thiefe patiently suffer Paul saith not as you affirme that Christ was made that curse only that iudiciall curse whereof onely Moses speaketh Much lesse doth Paul say as you teach that Christ suffered the whole proper curse of the law I measure Pauls meaning by his proofe you extend it to your fansie So that as I say Paul prooueth that he meaneth as you say Paul meaneth that hee prooueth not Which of our constructions commeth neerest the Apostles mind the Reader will soone perceiue Paul handling before generally Gods curse and the punishment of the Law against sinne and shewing we are redeemed from it by Christs being made the same for vs he confirmeth it by applying Moses iudiciall punishment against certaine transgressours being it seemeth a figure of Christ herein If you may adde what fansies and falsities you list to the Apostles words you will make at length some shew of proofe if not from Pauls text yet out of your owne trifles There is not one true word in all this Preface of yours to Pauls proofe for neither doth the Apostle in that place handle generally the punishment of the Law against sinne nor shew that Christ was made the same for vs neither did Moses appoint hanging by any iudiciall Law against transgressours neither were oââ¦enders so punished a figure of Christ herein Paul in that place handleth the righteousnesse of faith in Christ as bringing the blessing of Abraham and freeing from sinne which the law conuinced and accursed The law threatneth a curse vpon euery breach thereof but it inflicteth not actuall punishment vpon euery sinner And therefore the curse of the law in Pauls first words is either the DETESTATION which God hath of sinne and sinners whom in time appointed he meaneth euerlastingly to destroy or the OBLIGATION to temporall and eternall euill which sinne hath in it Neither of which Christ was made for vs since hee tasted not the same but another kind of curse which was the temporall punishment of sinne by the hands of men and by that obedience to the will and counsell of God hee freed vs from the guilt and wages of sinne which the law denounced To note the differences of those two curses the Apostle putteth the Article to the first for the more vehemencie and not to the second saying Christ redeemed vs from that curse of the law being made a curse for vs. The curse then or punishment of sinne in the person of Christ was hanging on a tree to which Moses by his iudiciall law adiudged no man Worshippers of other Gods blasphemers breakers of the Sabbath disobeiers of parents and Adulterers were to bee stoned to death by the law of Moses Murderers were to loose bloud for bloud and false witnesses to suffer that they meant to others whether it were eye for eye hand for hand or life for life But by no iudiciall law that I reade did Moses appoint any transgressours to be hanged By the expresse commandement of God who is aboue the law Moses tooke the chiefe of the people that coupled themselues with Baal Peor and hanged them vp before the Lord against the Sunne And Ioshua vsed the same kind of death in some that were strangers and not Israelites otherwise Moses neuer commanded but onely permitted the Magistrate to hange transgressours yet so that the body should not remaine all night vpon the tree but be buried the same day because the curse of God was executed on him that was hanged So that God not appointing any man by his law to bee hanged but leauing that libertie to the Magistrate so to reuenge malefactours where the law did not specifie their punishment they could bee no figures of Christ as well in respect they were wicked that must be so vsed who were not fit to be figures of that innocent vndefiled Lambe as also that men had no power to erect figures of Christs death passion but must leaue that to God to represent the sufferings of his Sonne as he saw cause They that were hanged by the iust sentence of the Law they were herein accursed that is they herein sustained the lawes true and deserued punishment But if they were INNOCENTS oppressed by vnrighteous iudgement which is no newes among men as we see by the death of our Sauiour or if they were PENITENTS though their punishment were neuer so deserued neither of these could be truly accursed before God yet might be hanged and so subiected to the corporall curse of the Law For though Moses had no meaning to haue men vniustly hanged yet had he lesse purpose to pronounce them damned that died for their sinnes if they repented and therefore he commmandeth the bodies to be buried the same day because the Curse that is the Rigour and Reuenge of the Law was executed on them and consequently Moses extendeth not this curse farther then this life which maketh nothing to the paines or perpetuall curse of the damned And here the Reader may plainly perceiue you to sincke in the sands of your owne subtilties for here you confesse that deserued hanging is a TRVE CVRSE and PVNISHMENT notwithstanding if the guiltie repent as the Theefe did on the Crosse I hope you will leaue him the child of Gods mercie whom Christ receiued into Paradise And consequently by your owne confession the paines and afflictions of this life when they are deserued are curses and true punishments of sinne to Gods children though their soules be blessed by their submission and conuersion vnto God Which ouerthroweth all that you formerly haue said touching the troubles and vexations of this life and that you presently meane to conclude of Moses curse applied to Christ. By applying this text of Moses in this sense and in this respect to Christ it is well confirmed to be in nature and veritie the true and proper curse of the Law which Christ was made for vs for such also in deede was the nature of that iudiciall curse of Moses Moses we see had no meaning to make their soules accursed whose bodies were hanged on the tree by the iust iudgement of the Magistrate if the malefactours truely repented their wicked offences How much lesse then ment he to subiect the Sonne of God to the internall or eternall curse of the Law for that he was vniustly and wrongfully hanged on a tree by the malice and spight of his Enemies And yet in both as well poenitent as innocent hanging is called a curse that is
will not distinguish what death is in it selfe euen to the godly and what is consequent after it by Gods mercie towards his Saints And heerein I say you want both trueth and iudgement for things are to be named by their natures and not by the sequents which often God sendeth cleane contrarie to the purposes and practises of Satan and his members Tyrannie shall it be no crueltie because it maketh Martyrs Sinne shall it not be displeasing to God because it humbleth the faithfull by repentance The corruption of mans nature shall it not be sinne because thereby God exerciseth his Saints to watchfulnesse and prayer Euen so the death of the bodie which God at first inflicted on all his Elect for sinne shall it be no punishment for that God doth comfort his in death and reward them after death I affirme death to the godly is no curse properly And I aââ¦irme that when you can not tell how to start from the force of truth you do nothing but lie or flie to your phrases of proper and verie which here as in other places do you no good In the fifteenth line of this page you say the death of of the godly may IN NO SORT be called a Curse or Accursed In the sixteenth whiles you offer to proue those words you confesse them to be false Death to the ãâã ãâã no Curse properly you say but a benefit and aduantage then improperly death is a curse and before you sayd It may in no sort be called a Curse to them If in no ââ¦rt then neither properly nor improperly What then is that Enemie that must be destââ¦oyed a cursing or a blessing Can it be an enemie to Christ and yet a blessing to the godly I cannot better refell your folly then S. Austen doth in this verie case If death be a bleââ¦ing to the bodies of the godly neuer desire to be deliuered from it what nââ¦ed you beleeue or loue the resurrection of the flesh which is the destruction of death in the bodie it death be a benefit to the bodie But if this be repugnant to Christian religion then hath death in it euen a shew of Gods curse on the bodie for sinne which must be destroyed before Christ can fully reigne in all his Saints Yet is it to the godly no curse properly The heigth of your learning hangeth on the helpe of this word PROPERLY we yet came to no point in all our defence but when you see your selfe pressed you straightwayes post to PROPER and VERY and yet you neuer define either nor take the paines to expound your selfe lest you should be taken with open heresie and blasphemie in applying one and the same curse properly and truely to Christ and the damned You say I am to young a Doctour to controll Saint Austen herein and I say you are a Doctour not olde enough to prooue Austen contrarie to me in this point A farre younger then I am will soone discerne by that I haue sayd that S. Austen is repugnant in this point to your proper and verie nouelties for where you say Death to the godly may in no sort be called a curse S. Austen thus expoundeth Christes words to the godlie Feare not those which kill the bodie as if Christ had sayd Nolite timere male dictum mortis corporalis quod temporaliter soluitur Feare not the CVRSE of a bodily death which in time is dissolued And so when he resolueth Moses had none other meaning in this sentence Cursed is euerie one that hangeth on a tree then if he had sayd Mortall is euerie one that hangeth on a tree Poterat enim dicere maledictus omnis mortalis aut maledictus omnis moriens For Moses might haue sayd Cursed is eââ¦ry mortall man or cursed is euerie man that dieth If Moses might truely haue so sayd as it is euident by S. Austens position then I trust death in some sort may be iustlie called a Curse euen to the godlie But S. Austen sayth that the death of the bodie is good to the good and euill to the euill That speech S. Austen sayth may be tolerated not in respect of death it selfe which is euill but of the mercies of God which follow the faithfull after their deaths His words which you skippe as your maner is to do when any thing maketh against you are Dici potest It may be sayd But vpon that speech he presently moueth this question in the beginning of the next Chapter If the death of the bodie be good to the good quo modo poterit obtineri quòd etiam ipsa sit poena peccati how may it be resolued that it is also the punishment of sinne His resolution you did not reade or not regard because it resisted your fansie but thereby the Reader may see what credit is to be giuen to your words when you crake of Fathers We must confesse sayth Austen that the first men were so created that if they had not sinned they should haue tasted no kinde of death but the verie same being the first sinners were so punished with death that whatsoeuer should spring from their root should be held subiect to the same punishment And discussing the question proposed more at large he resolueth Sic per ineffabilem Dei misericordiam ipsa pââ¦na vitââ¦orum transit in arma virtutis fit meritum iusti etiam supplicium peccatoris So by the vnspeakeable mercie of God the punishment of vice becommeth the armour of vertue and the reuenge of a sinner is made the merit of the iust Non quia mors bonum aliquod facta est quâ⦠antea malum fuit sed tantam Deus fidei praestitit gratiam vt mors quam vitae constat esse contrariam instrumentum fieret per quod transiâ⦠in vitam NOT THAT DEATH IS BECOME ANY GOOD which before was euill but so great fauour God hath yeelded vnto faith that death which most certainly is contrarie to life is made an instrument for the good by which they passe vnto life And to make men the better to vnderstand the effect of his speech he bringeth an example out of the Scriptures where the law is called the strength of sinne Why sayth he rehearse ââ¦e this Because that as the Law is not euill when it increaseth the lust of sinners so death is not good when it augmenteth the glorie of the sufferes but as the vniust doe eââ¦lly vse not onely euill but also good things so the iust doe well vse not onely good but euen things that be euill Hence commeth it that the wicked vse the Law ill though the Law be good BONI beââ¦Ã¨ moriantur quamuis sit mors malum and the good die well though death be euill I haue toucheâ⦠at large Saint Anstens reasons and resolutions in his owne words because the Reââ¦der should the more cleerely conceiue him and the discourser see him contrarie to his conceits euen in this point
which he so much denieth The death of the body which the godly doe suffer is to this day an euill of it selfe and the punishment of sinne but God of his mercie towards his hath giuen such grace not to death but to their faith that by suffering death patiently they shal be the more plentifully rewarded But as no wise man will say the Law is euill when the wicked abuse it to kindle their lusts so may no sober man say that the death of the faithfull is good in it selfe though by Gods goodnesse it bee made to them a triall of their patience and a passage to a better life You say the nature of death is changed and not to the faithfull any longer an euill or part of the punishment and curse which was laide oâ⦠sinne S. Austen saith the contrarie It is still an euill as it was and the nature thereof is not changed though the vse thereof be changed by faith and the consequents altered by Gods goodnesse Now things must bee esteemed by their nature and not by their vse as Austen teacheth For euill men vse good things euilly yet that maketh not good to bee euill because their vse is inuerted and euen so saith Austen good men haue a good vse of death which is euill yet that maketh not the death which they suffer to be good in it selfe or in nature to bee such as by Gods fauour it is to them When the death therefore of the faithfull is said by Saint Austen or any others to be good they meane the vse and not the nature thereof and when they say it is euill or a curse they meane the nature and not the vse For touching the nature thereof the Apostle who must be heard saith fully and resolutely Death is an enemie that must be destroyed euen in the godly And touching the vse thereof the same Apostle saith To mee Christ is life and to die is gaine Against this you neither doe nor can bring ought besides waste words and places either not vnderstood of you or wrested by you as spoken of the nature of death when they meane the vse of death which the faithfull haue by Gods abundant blessing Your selfe doe say The vengeance of the Law once executed on the suertie can no more in Gods iustice be executed on vs. In the vengeance of the law is comprised corporall spirituall and eternall death The whole Christ neither did nor could taste and bee a Sauiour A part he therefore tasted which was the death of his body and thereby freed vs from the rest which was due to our sinnes From the death of the body he hath not as yet wholly deliuered vs but hee will and in the meane time hee hath broken the linckes of death whereby those three were coupled together first in his owne person who suffered the first kinde of death and neither of the other and by vertue thereof hath done the like in all his Saints leauing their bodies for a season vnto death as his was that he may raise them after with greater power and glorie then if they had neuer died What doeth this hinder but death may truely bee called a Curse as in Christ so in his members and though execution of vengeance be restrained from vs yet imitation of Christ is not excluded neither is the generall sentence pronounced against the sinne of all mankinde To dust thou shalt returne reuoked but by the resurrection from the dead how then was it vengeance on Christ if it were due to mans nature Death was due to mans nature for sinne and consequently not due to Christ that had not sinned When therefore it was laide on him that deserued it not it must be taken as the wages of our sinne in his person and so was a wound to him though a medicine to vs because hee was wounded for our transgressions and wee were healed by his stripes Our publike doctrine in England set foorth by Master Nowel confirmeth as much To the faithfull death is now not a destruction but a changing of life and a very sure and short passage to heauen Euery thing that is licensed or liked as profitable to bee publikely read or taught is not by and by authorised in all things nor made the publike doctrine of this Realme You would faine oppose Master Nowel to Saint Austen who if hee were liuing would giue you no thanks therefore Saint Austens Faith hath beene allowed and receiued by all Synods and Councels since his time and by the whole Church of Christ as fit to guide and leade not onely learners but makers of Catechismes and therefore the match if they were repugnant is somewhat vnequall but indeede you haue neede to bee taught how to vnderstand your Catechisme That death is a destruction to the godly can you tell who saith so except it bee your selfe That it is a changing of life and short passage to heauen if you meane to the soules of the faithfull as the Caââ¦echisme doth no man doubteth thereof if you meane to their bodies that they by death change life and so haue a short passage to heauen it is a notable falsitie and heresie gainsaying the verie grounds of the Christian faith For priuation of sense and corruption to dust is no life much lesse an heauen except you will multiplie heauens as you do helles without reason or trueth It is most true which the Catechisine intendeth that death is this to the souls of the faithful but not to their bodies as yet till the generall day of resurrection and then the destruction of death in their bodies shall bring them to the full possession of heauenly glory prouided both for soule and bodie till that time their bodies lie vnder the dominion or power of death which is not yet destroied in euery part of vs because of sinne dwelling in our bodies though it throughly be conquered in the person of Christ and shall be likewise in vs at his appointed time As little to the purpose is that which you cite next out of the Catechisme that Death which before was a punishment is now become a vantage For he meaneth that death before had nothing in it nor after it but punishment and so was wholly and onely punishment which now by Christ is altered and made an aduantage to vs as well in respect of the manifold miseries and offences of this life from which we are deliuered as in regard of the felicitie and securitie which the soules of the Saints decââ¦ased enioy but this is nothing to their bodies which lie depriued of life and corrupted to dust till the finall restitution Neither is this a comparison with our condition before sinne in which we were created when soule and bodie should iointly haue beene translated to the kingdome of heauen without any sense or touch of death if we had stood fast in obedience but this noteth what death is after sinne committed without Christ and rightly saith that when
it For to the impenitent no sinnes are pardoned Except yee repent saith our Sauior ye shall all perish likewise As sinne is accursed so all punishment of sinne saith Austen is accursed meaning till it be released and no longer a punishment of sinne Which he auoucheth not of the wicked onely whose punishment is perpetuall and therefore truely and properly a curse but of all the godly when they suffer for their sinnes We saith Austen came to death by sinne Christ by righteousnesse and therefore where our death is the punishment of sinne his death is the sacrifice for sinne And that the death of our bodies is hatefull to God euen as our sinne is he resolueth in these words Nisi Deus odisset peccatum mortem nostram non ad eam suscipiendam atque delendam filium suum mitteret Except God had hated sinne and also death in vs he would neuer haue sent his Sonne tâ⦠vndertake and destroy our death For so much the more willingly God giueth vs immortalitie of our bodies which shal be reuealed with Christes comming how much the more mercifully he hateth our death which hung on the crosse when Christ died Here you may learne that the bodies of Martyrs are so acceptable to God that he hateth death which detaineth them in dust and that the loue which he beareth to the one is the cause why he will destroy the other as an enimie to them ââ¦hom he loueth and therefore iustly hated of him but in the meane time how false is this reason which you so much stand on God in his secret and euerlasting counsell loueth the soules and bodies of his Saints as being the members of Christ and temples of his holie spirite therefore he hateth neither sinne in their soules nor death in their bodies Nay rather the more he loueth the one the more he hateth the other and sent his Sonne to destroy both sinne and death in his elect as the Enimies that hinder and defer the true blisse promised to his seruants You say we must call things by those names which God first allotted them That I deny if God since euidently hath altered them My rule had more reason in it then you doe comprehend For if it be written of Adam in his innocencie that God brought all liuing creatures vnto man to see how hee could call them and how soeuer the man named the liuing creature so was the nââ¦me thereof how much more shall it be verified of Gods wisdome With whom is no change that he knew all his workes from the beginning of the world and therefore the word of the Lord abideth for euer that he may be iustified in whatsoeuer he saith but God you say hath made the alteration himselfe or else your conceite deceiueth you For God hath not reuoked the generall iudgement which he gaue vpon all men for sinne Dust thou art and to dust thou shalâ⦠returne but he hath performed his promise made before he inflicted this punishment that the Seed of the woman should bruize the Serpents head And therefore there is no change made by God as you imagine but he qualified his sentence at the first pronouncing of it on all his elect euen as it standeth to this day And were there that addition since made by God which you vntruely dreame of Yet Saint Austen telleth you that altereth not the name of punishment first imposed on all but sheweth Gods goodnesse towards his owne Whatsoeuer it is in those that die which with bitter paine taketh away sense by religious and faithfull enduring it it increaseth the merââ¦te of patience Non aufert vocabulum poenae it taketh not away the name of punishment His firme resolution is Wherefore as touching the death of the body that is the separation of the soule from the bodie when such as die suffer it Nulli bona est it is good to no man And noting the vse that God maketh thereof in crowning his Saints with as ample words as you haue any he resolutely concludeth Mors ergo non ideo bonum videri debet quia in tantam vtilitatem non vi sua sed diuina opitulatione conuersa est Death theâ⦠OVGHT NOT TO BE THOVGHT GOOD because by Gods mercie and not by any force of his own it is turned to so great vtilitie And this assertion you and your adherents must yeeld vnto least you rather conuince your selues then that woorthy pillour of Christes church to be in an errour For the ground that he standeth on is sure God turneth euill to a good vse and will you therefore denie euill to be euill because God vseth it well to how many good and blessed purposes doth God vse the diuell and shall the diuell by your doctrine now cease to be a diuell what excellent effectes doth God worke by the sinnes of the faithfull shall we therefore not call them nor account them sinnes you be cleane out of your byas good Sir when you come in with your changes made by God to alter the names or natures of things that be euill Afflictions and death which originally and Naturally were punishments for sinne and so are still in the wicked the same to the godly are since changed and now not punishments nor curses To wise men there is enough said to bablers who will still talke they know not what nothing is enough The Scriptures and Fathers may not be set aside to giue way to your follies Daniell confessing the sinnes of himselfe and of his people Israel plainly saith Therefore the Curse is powred vpon vs written in the Law of Moses the seruant of God because we haue sinned against him Baruc made the same confession during the Captiuitie Saint Iohn in his Reuelation of the Citie of God now brought to the presence of the Lambe saith There shall be no more Curse meaning amongst the faithfull as there was before For the wicked then shall be most deepely accursed Saint Austen learnedly and largely writing of the miseries of mans life saith Quot quantis poenis agitetur genus humanum quae non ad malitiam nequitiamque iniquorum sed ad conditionem pertinent miseriamque communem quis vllo sermone digerit quis vlla cogitatione comprehendit With how many and how great punishments mankinde is persued which pertaine not to the malice and leudnesse of the wicked but to the common condition and calamitie of man what tongue cââ¦n expresse what heart can comprehend And repeating many particulars which there may be seene he concludeth Satis apparet humanum genus ad luendas miseriarum poenas esse damnatum It appeareth sufficiently that mankââ¦de is condemned to endure the punishments of miseries And lest you should flie to your shift of improper speeches as your maner is S. Austen exquisitly discusseth and resolueth this question that these miseries and afflictions come from the iust iudgement of God
purged that we might be made the righteousnesse of God in him by the remitting of all our sinnes and the restoring vs to the fauour of God and graunt these words that our sinnes were imputed to him that his righteousnesse might be imputed to vs which yet are not the Apostles words where is the proportion you so confidently speake of that as we are made his righteousnesse so he was made our sinne This comparison vnlimited it notorââ¦ously false and were it true it euerteth all your frame The full and euerlasting reward of his righteousnesse is allotted to vs. Was the wages of our sinnes so imposed on hiâ⦠His righteousnesse is now imputed to vs because it shall be perfectly inherent in vs and is presently sealed vnto vs by the spirit of adoption whereby our harts are inherently sanctified Were our sinnes so imputed to him that they should afterward perfectly possesse him To vs God imputeth Christs righteousnesse without our consents and often without our knowledge as in children baptized Were out sinnes imputed to Christ without his vnderstanding or will In vs God hateth out sinnes and ioueth our persons for Christes sake To keepe this comparison will you say that God hated the righteousnesse of Christ and loued the sinne imputed to him for our sakes And were there not so many differences in the maner of Christes hauing our sinnes and our hauing his righteousnesse as there are yet are you no whit the nearer For as we no way deserue to be his righteousnesse so he no way deserued to be our sinne And though God forget all our sinnes and putteth them vtterly out of his sight when he washeth vs from them yet God did not wholly cast Christs righteousnesse out of his remembrance when he did punish him for our sinnes Christ therefore tooke our sinnes from vs and layed them on himselfe but he doth not take his righteousnesse from himselfe to giue it to vs but doth impart it to vs as hauing enough for himselfe and for vs because he is God as well as man So that all our sinnes were imputed to him to make vs iust yet all his righteousnesse is not imputed to vs to make him a finner as you would haue him but he bare the punishment of our sinnes which the Apostle calleth sinne that we might receiue the reward of his righteousnesse not in cogitation or computation only but in deed and execution For euen in this life where we aââ¦e continuall sinners we haue no righteousnesse but what is ioyned with the reall remission of our sinnes pardoned for Christes sake and with the grace of Gods spirit purifying our hearts by faith and inflaming them with the loue of Gods goodnesse and mercie towards vs. Our righteousnesse then in Christ hath more then imputation though imputation be also needfull it hath the seale of Gods spirit possessing our hearts and the inherent graces of faith and loue which God accepteth at our hands and thereby maketh vs partakers of Christes righteousnesse for that we beleeue in the name of his only Sonne Whereas you say the Fathers haue two good senses of the Apostles words Christ was made sinne for vs the one That God made Christ a sacrifice for sinne the other That God vsed him As he doth sinners what is there in both these which we acknowledge not Yea what is this later but the very same point which we vrge You admit both and yet vnderstand neither as you ought to doe If you acknowledge the death and bloud of Christ to be the true and onely sacrifice for sinne then must you acknowledge these three things in it that it was pleasing to God vndefiling the Priest and elensing the sinner If as well the oblation as the offerer were holie and acceptable to God why doe you defend that Christ was sinnefull and hatefull in his sufferings for sinne which was the sacrifice that he offered for sinne If it clensed the offender how could it deââ¦ile the sacrificer who was the Mediatour to God for abolishing sin you will haue one and the same sacrifice to be holie acceptable and auaileable for sinne and yet to be defiled hatefull and accursed with sinne you may call lighâ⦠darknesse and good euill and thinke the prophet denouneeth no woe to you because your inuentions are priuiledged But to mine vnderstanding and I thinke to your Readers these plaine contrarieties of holy and defiled acceptable and hatefull righteous and sinnefull in one and the same sacrifice and sufferer at one and the same time will not stand together but you must be colted or cursed in your warbling conââ¦its It is nothing else in all this Question that we held but that God vsed Christ our Redeemer and Suertie As he doth sinners so farre As possibilitie admitteth You neuer want an As to helpe you at need You heare the Fathers say for of their sense you speake that God permitted the wicked to reproch his Sonne and to put him to a shamefull and cruell death as if he had beene the vilest malefactor amongst the multitude thence you collect that God punished Christ As he doth sinners that is with the greatest and sorest torments of death and damnation that are in this life or in hell But this As doth rather plunge you into the mire then plucke you out of it and therefore you adde so farre as possibilitie admitteth Now how farre that is by whom shall we be tried by the Scriptures and Fathers or by your shallow conceits and fancies you haue beene told often enough that where the Scriptures make three kinds of death due to sinners and for sinne the death of the bodie the death of the soule and the second death which is the euerlasting torment of bodie and soule in hell fire and all the learned and Catholike Fathers hold the same confession the two last deaths spirituall and eternall are not onely impossibilities but horrible blasphemies to be ascribed to the person of Christ and to either of these you would not yet speake one word but by stealth Now you haue gotten hold of a double As saying that God vsed Christ As he doth sinners so farre As possibilitie admitteth you thinke your selfe safe and out of this As you will frame vs new deaths of the soule a new Hell and all the same which the damned doe suffer in substance not in circumstance But we haue long looked for your proofes and till they come tie vp your As to serue you for another turne For this the Fathers are not silent if I were so ambitious as you in producing multitudes of men Only Cyprian and Athanasius and Austen shall content me in this Whether my care to teach nothing touching matters of Faith but what I see confirmed by the Scriptures and confessed by the writings of the Auncient Fathers may be called Ambition I leaue it to the Reader my paines haue beene the more therein which if any condemne I referre the Cause to him
promised to deliuer vs. And our debt being eternall damnation of bodie and soule to hell fire you will tie Christ to paie our debts without dispensation or qualification except it please you with your possiââ¦ilities to releeue him And the law to which you will haue him bound was first that which inflicted penalties on vs for sinne then it was the Gospell which shewed vs our saluation in Christ and now it is the eternall decââ¦e of God whereby Christ was appointed to be our Sauiour And all this impiety and inconstancie you build neither on Scripture nor Father but vpon the similitude of a Suertie taken from Westminster Hall where men mistrusting ech others words and willes take bands with Sureties to haue their due payed them But know you good Sir that God had no distrust of his Sonnes will and loue to vs nor doubt of his abilââ¦ty to performe our redemption and therefore bound him not as you desperately drââ¦ame when he offered to be our Redeemer but accepted his loue which could not faile and his will which could not change making no decree for the maner of our redemption but what the Sonne himselfe with the rest of the persons in Trinitie liked for the preseruing of his owne diuine iustice and shewing of his owne exceeding loue towards vs. Then as it is certaine by the Christian faith the Sonne of God could not be bound to helpe or redeeme vs being his enemies nor to humble himselfe to the forme of a seruant but only was thereto led with the loue of his Fathers glorie and of our safetie so it is euident that the same person after he had assumed our nature vnto him could not be forced with any necessitie nor vrged with any commandement against his will but the humane will of Christ was so guided and directed by his diuine will and power that it readily and gladly submitted it selfe in all things to the will and pleasure of his Father which indeed was also the will of his owne diuine nature forsomuch as the three persons in Trinitie haue all one the same glorie and maiestie will and worke And therefore aswell the Scriptures as the Fathers do plainly testifie that euen Christes manhood had power enough giuen it to withstand all that was offered him by men or diuels but that for our sakes the person would submit himselfe to the seruitude infirmitie miserie and mortalitie of our condition therein to comfort vs thereby to redeeme vs and therefrom to deliuer vs which he could not do but in his humane nature since his Godhead was impassible This fredome and power not to be bound nor compelled to any of his sufferings we must reserue to the person of Christ that his obedience might be meritorious and voluntarie not only at his first consenting thereto which is this Defenders drift but in his continuall persisting therein and finall performing thereof that is in all and euery part of those things which the wisedome of God thought requisit for our redemption When you haue done all those things sayth our Sauiour which were appointed you say We are vnprofitable seruants we haue done that which was our bounden duetie to dââ¦e Will you bring Christ within the compasse of an vnprofitable seruant by doing that he was appointed and bound to do Without thy liking sayth Paul to Philemon I would do nothing that thy good should not be as it were of necessitie but willingly If God so much respect the willingnesse of the heart that he will not haue men tied with necessitie to doe good shall we thinke that he would binde his owne Sonne to the obedience of a seruant and not suffer his submission to be voluntary that it might be acceptable and thanks worthy to God And to what purpose lay you these bands on Christ If he were willing there needed no bands besides the bands of loue which is the surest hold that God requireth of vs. If he were not willing his vndertaking our cause was neither loue to vs nor obedience to God who loueth a cheerefull giuer but a compulsion or exaction which ouerthroweth the very ground-worke of Christes submission and our saluation To preuent all lewd and wicked surmises of bonds duetie or necessitie to be layd on the Sonne of God in redeeming vs the Scriptures exactly say that Christ loued his Church and gaue himselfe for her that is he was led by loue and by no compulsion noâ⦠commandement to giue himselfe for her which otherwise by no meanes could be exacted of the Sonne of God And therefore he EMPTIED HIMSELFE taking the forme of a seruant and HVMBLED HIMSELFE becomming obedient vnto death euen the death of the Crosse to assure vs it was loue that caused him to giue himselfe that is at first to offer and after to yeeld himselfe for vs which otherwise could by no decree nor band be imposed on him nor required of him And this libertie to do and suffer of his owne accord euerie thing which he in his diuine wisdome together with the Father and the Holy Ghost thought meet for mans saluation the person of Christ kept vntouched euen to his death in his death and after his death himselfe most plainly professing so much of himselfe in the laying downe of his soule that none tooke it from him but he layd it downe of himselfe and would in three dayes raise vp againe the temple of his bodie by taking his soule vnto him And this was the chargâ⦠and appointment that he receiued of his Father to do and suffer these things of himselfe that is without any band force or necessitie but only of his owne accord and voluntarie obedience to that which was his Fathers will because it was first his owne good will and offer and so accepted and decreed to the whole Trinitie as a most sufficient amends for mans disobedience and a most iust and full desert of mans adoption and saluation by the meanes and merits of Christ Iesus For which cause the Scripture resolueth vs that Christ loued vs and gaue himselfe for vs to be an offering and a sacrifice of a sweet sauour vnto God that is a most willing free and acceptable seruice and satisfaction to God for all our sinnes The Catholike Fathers were very carefull to continue this Doctrine in Christs Church Nos Dominum verum hominem suscepisse credimus in ipso visibiliter inuisibilem apparuisse in ipso inter homines conuersatum fuisse in ipso ab hominibus humana pertulisse Totum autem hoc nulla fecit necessitate We Christians saith Austen beleeue that the Lord tooke vpon him the true Nature of Man and therein did visibly appeare to men when he was before inuisible and in his Manhood conuerââ¦ed amongst men and in the same sââ¦ffered the tââ¦ings which men may offer to men All this did ââ¦e with no necessitie To shew what Christ suffered from men Austen addeth The word was made
flagitiorum maculas morte voluntaria suo innocente sanguine luisse atque eluisse It is euident that Christ admitted receaued and suffered of his owne good will the paines due to mans wickednesse but not due to him and with a voluntarie death and his owne innocent bloud did wash and clense the spots of our filthinesse And againe It is euident the Iewes had not in their power these things or times sed sua ipsum voluntate nulla vâ⦠coactum harc mortem pro nostra salute oppetijsse but of his owne accord without anie cââ¦action Christ died this death for our saluation Where also this is set downe as a true position that eligendae mortis optio penes ipsum fiââ¦t the election and direction of his death was left to his owne power and choise which the whole Church of Christ hath hitherto ascribed to the power and will loue and mercie of the Sonne of God reiecting your bands and obligations lately deuised to barre the freedome and abridge the power of the Sauiour of the worlde because you would tie him to the paines of hell You see not you will say how these Fathers make against you None otherwise but that they directly denie that which you affirme Christ you say though of good will he was at first content so to doe yet after became bound to the Law to pay our debts Now he that is bound must needs obey and so you lay on Christ not onely a necessity but also a dutie These Fathers with one consent disclaime al necessitie in the death of Christ and consequently they confesââ¦e he was free from all bands and debts but in loue and mercie as a free Redeemer he would giue himselfe for vs which was a farre greater price then we were woorth or could owe. And these multitudes of men as you call them though they be not of equall strength with the word of God which is the touchstone of all trueth yet doe they plainely prooue that you innouate the faith of Christes Church which in their seuerall ages they all beleeued and professed and for their faith they haue the manifest wordes of our Sauiour that none tooke his soule from him but he laid it downe of himselfe and the witnesse of the Apostle that Christ for loue gaue himselfe for vs which argueth that he was vrged thereto with no violence necessitie nor dutie much lesse was thereto bound and you for your deuice haue the curiositie of creditours the discredite of debtours of whom men require Suerties with bands because they trust not their words and promises much lesle their willes and dispositions But this iealousie in the Sonne of God is hainous blasphemie therfore there could be no cause to bind him as there could be no distrust of him since our miserie and his mercie were motiues enough to incline and continue his loue though we leaue him at his full libertie without all seruitude or necessirie Gods decree and his owne good will was that he should satisfie and pay none otherwise for vs then so as he did There can be no question but in creating condemning and redeeming man the Father the Sonne and the holie Ghost had one and the same will and decree yet except with the Arian heretickes you make an inequallitie of the persons in the most blessed Trinitie you can impose no seruice nor suffering on the Sonne of God by any decree but what must come from his owne good pleasure offer and perfourmance And that the Scriptures euerie where imply when they say Christ loued vs and gaue himselfe for vs that is he FIRST of loue towards vs OFFERED to serue and suffer in our places and AFTER of the same loue submitted himselfe to performe his purpose and promise of our saluation So that Gods decree was no iniunction nor ordinance that his Sonne should doe it but an ACCEPTATION of his Sonnes loue and mercie towards vs and an APPROEATION that it was a most sufficient recompence for all the transgressions of men And the Father is said to giue his Sonne for vs not that he loued vs better then he did his Sonne whom he infinitely loueth as himselfe and for whose sake onely he accepteth vs not that he vsed any authoritie or power ouer his Sonne to appoint him to this seruice but that knowing the strength and sufficiencie of his Sonne to be as his owne and seeing his loue and mercie towards vs which was common to him with the rest of the persons in that most glorious Trinitie the Father out of the same loue towards vs thought it fitter to accept the offer of his Sonne then that we should perish And therefore though the Father loued his Sonne as himselfe yet he was content his Sonne should beare our burden which we could not without euerlasting destruction and his Sonne could with exceeding honour and admiration of his mercie humilitie obedience and patience If you slide from the Godhead of Christ to his manhood to binde that because it was a Creature and not the Creator by diuiding the person of Christ you runne into the heresie of Nestorius condemned in the generall Counsell of ââ¦phesus and yet releiue not your selfe For the person and not this or that part of his nature must be the Redeemer since neither man could saue vs vnlesse he were also God nor God could die for vs vnlesse he were also man and so did sufââ¦er death in his humane nature So that the Suertie as you call him that vndertooke our saluation not onely from the beginning but before the world was precisely the person of the Sonne of God and not the humane nature of Christ and therefore you must either binde the Godhead of Christ as our Suertie or free his manhood from all bands Neither could any of Christs sufferings be of infinite price and merite for vs except we asââ¦ibe them to the voluntarie obedience of the person since the death of a iust man could not be the redemption of the worlde but the death of that person which was more woorth then all the world If then Christs sufferings take their force and value from the person they must likewise haue their freedome and election from the person Those sentences of your Authors Gregorie Austen and Ambrose if they be spoken simply seeme very harsh where they say that Christ could haue saued vs otherwaies then by suffering and dying for vs. For herein they oppose Gods absolute omnipotencie against his expresse and reuealed will which how it may be liked in Diuinitie I know not Yours is more harsh that reprooue them before you vnderstand them and chalenge that as false which is most apparantly true by the maine grounds of Christian Religion For if you auouch Gods power to extend no farder then his works as if God could doe no more then he hath done or will doe is a manifest denying of Gods omnipotencie which is larger then either his will or his
Because you coyne new Principles of Religion you thinke your selfe Authorized to make newe Rules for Similitudes In the Scriptures it is not required that Similitudes made of God or of Christ his Sonne should be lawfull in euery part of the Comparison but onely that they be possible and so propose the thing which the holy Ghost would intimate The day of the Lord shall come euen as a Theife in the night Will you iustifie night Robbers because Christs comming is resembled to theirs Christ draweth a comparison from the vnrighteous Iudge to God and taketh likewise a Similitude from Vsurers and Extortioners to teach that God will haue his gifts carefully imployed Will you by that Parable make it lawfull to lend money for aduantage Or for men to reape where they did not sow because these things are proportioned to Gods graces Christ bringeth the Similitude of an vnfaithfull Steward that wasted his Masters goods and abated his Masters debts and saith the Lord and Master commended the vniust Steward that he had done wisely Will you hence vphold prodigalitie and infidelitie in seruants which cosen their Masters rather then they will worke or want Similitudes we see of things most vnlawfull are made and referred to Gods Actions by Christ himselfe and therefore it is no weakning to my Similitude whatsoeuer you say that no King hath power by Gods Law to lay bodily death on his Innocent Sonne I doe not by that resemblance make any thing lawfull or vnlawfull but shew how euill it becommeth Prisoners and Captiues to twite or vpbraid their Redeemers and deliuerers as if they were defiled and guiltie of their Sinnes for whom they mediate and intreate Of bodily death I spake neuer a word that is your Idle conceite added to my comparison But the Similitude fitteth not Christs sufferings in our Redemption No more doth any Similitude that man can make I say of Christs death as Saint Austen saith of his birth If you seeke for areason it shall not be wonderfull if you aske for an example it shall not be singular The Acts of men may in some sort resemble or imitate they cannot match or euen the works of God But why are you so curious in other mens Similitudes that are so carelesse of your own Doth your example of a Suretie fit the bodily sufferings of Christ I hope humane lawes haue no power nor practise to take mens liues away for Suretiship nay they allow no Sureties for any corporall paines as we saw before because no man is Master of his owne Body to engage the whole or any part thereof to be mangled or maymed vnlesse he will be an homicide of himselfe which Gods Law doth not permit nor mans Law accept How much lesse then doth your Suretie resemble the paines of the damned suffered in the Soule of Christ as you say from the immediate hand of God If men haue no power to pawne their owne Soules nor to kill other mens your similitude of a Suretie bound to the Law to pay an other mans debts is as wide from Christes sufferings as mine and farre wider For he must be Suretie not onely life for life but Soule for Soule which Mans Law doth not meddle with And yet your owne example of a Suretie serueth my turne to declare your Doctrine to be false as well as any other For if a Man fined by a Court for ryots contempts or other misdemeanures and committed to prison till he pay the same find friends that to purchase his libertie will make present payment of his fine haue you any reason or conscience to charge them as guiltie or partakers of those Riots or other offences done by him whom they deliuer If men may be Sureties Mediators and ransomers of others and yet not deserue to be blamed for other mens Crimes why could not the Sonne of God take vpon him the punishment of our sinnes and yet be most free from the fault and guilt thereof Because God did punish Christ you will say with his immediate hand which he would not doe if Christ were Innocent Soft Sir that is no way prooued but barely pretended by you that God was the Tormentor of Christs Soule with his immediate hand The Scriptures teach the contrarie that God deliuered him into the hands of sinners to doe what soeuer Gods hand and counsell had determined before to be done And though the wicked be the Rod of Gods wrath and the staffe in their hands is his Indignation Yet serue they their malice in afflicting the faithfull when God hath an other end which is most iust and holy to put his Saints to the tryall of their obedience and patience in suffering for righteousnesse sake that he may be glorified in them and they exalted and crowned by him In the cruell and wrongfull death of his Sonne to which Christ willingly submitted himselfe God had farre greater and waightier causes and works euen the Redemption of the world and the demonstration of his Diuine power and wisedome and such like which I haue often mentioned and therefore doe presently passe them with silence An other Reason of mine you impugne with marueylous skorne and detestation That seeing Christ on the Crosse spoyled powers and Principalities and made a shew of them openly triumphing ouer them Therefore I collected that Christ selt the diuels as the very instruments that wrought the very effects of Gods wrath vpon him I grant I tooke it to be not a ridiculous but impious iest rather then a tolerable reason for you to conclude that because Christ triumphed ouer diuels therefore diuels tormented his Soule with the very effects of Gods wrath which euery where you make to be the paines of the damned And surely as yet why I should conceiue better of it I see nothing either proued or produced by you First you assume that these words of the Apostle were spoken of Christ hanging on the Crosse but what Scripture assureth that besides your selfe you peremptorily put it into the Text by saying Christ on the Crosse spoyled Principalities but your additions are no good illations with me The place if you take the paines to turne to it doth rather shew the Contrarie To proue that the faithfull are tied neither to the Rites and shadowes of the Law nor to any submission or seruice of Angels the Apostle bringeth Christs death for the one where the hand-writing of Ceremonies that kept vs in bondage was fastned to the Crosse and so cancelled and we freed from it and for the other he bringeth Christs Resurrection by which all contrarie powers were openly spoyled triumphed and subiected to Christ as to the head of all power and principalitie Yee were buried with him in Baptisme saith Paul with whom yee were also raised and when yee were dead in sinnes and in vncircumcision of your flesh he quickned you together with him forgiuing your sinnes and cancelling the hanauriting of ordinances
force and leading him captiue with a most glorious triumph in the sight of God and his Angels And though you can not digest it yet I make no doubt but the omnipotencie of the Sonne of God by which he is equall to his Father in the same essence was able by the only command of his will to haue taken mankinde from the dominion of the Diuell but the submission and humilitie of the Sonne of God vnto death was so vnknowen and vnlooked for to Satan that his confusion was the greater when he saw with his owne eagernesse he had beene the instrument of mans redemption and his owne destruction Doth not the verie maner of speech import some mightie contention and violent opposition where yet at length an absolute and most glorious triumphant victorie was obtained The words import a glorious conquest but what contention or opposition could there be betweene the Sonne of God and the diuell farther than pleased Christ himselfe to permit and admit I hope you will giue the diuell no power nor abilitie to resist God against his will It was Gods will and Christs good liking that the serpents head should be crushed by biting the heele of the promised seed for so the Scripture expresseth the contention and opposition that Satan should be suffered to haue against Christ. Grant then Christ suffered the diuell by the violent hands and tongues of the Iewes to doc his worst which may be proued by other places of Scripture though not by this that you bring what thence inferre you This must be conceiued and felt by Christ. What must Christ conceiue and feele The question is not whether Christ wanted sense but what the diuell did against him These could be none other effects but only of Gods proper wrath seueritie and indignation against the sinne of the world We are no whit the wiser for this answer though this be plainly repugnant to your former principles which make the soules proper suffering in Christ to be from the immediate hand of God and that the diuell I trust is not If it be truth that you teach why speake you not more directly and particularly what it was that Christ suffered from the diuell Are your mysteries so bottomlesse that they can not or so truethlesse that they may not be specified It could not be the reuealing of any glorie or comfort which such instruments procured vnto him and wrought vpon him Make you the diuell the authour of Reuelations vnto Christ It may be he is the founder of your fansies but Christ needed no such Reuealers Or do you reason that because the diuell reuealed no comfort to Christ therefore he tormented the soule of Christ These are some new found Reuelations they are no conclusions in any diuine or humane learning Against this you bring not a word I need not bring any thing against it till you bring somewhat for it but you be farre from prouing it that can not or dare not expresse it What if no tongue can expresse the maner as neither haue I once endeuoured to expresse it shall not therefore the testimonie of the Holy Ghost be true that on the Crosse Christ had such a conflict as I haue obserued Few men besides you conclude that which they can not expresse but your maner is to prate of your obseruations as if they were some reuelations which yet you neither vnderstand nor can declare The testimonie of the Holy Ghost is as true as yours is false and hath no more concordance with your conceits than light hath with darknesse A conquest you say implieth first a conflict But a conquest extendeth farther than the conflict for not only the persons and weapons of the resistants are in the Conquerers power but all the goods rights and dominions that any way belong to the vanquished It is therefore true that Christ subduing Satan subdued sinne hell eternall malediction confusion desperation and damnation but these things did not inwardly assault Christ howsoeuer by the mindes and mouthes of the wicked Christ was reputed and reproched as a reprobate The Scriptures then describe the outward tentations and afflictions that Christ suffered from the malicious thoughts tongues and deeds of the Iewcs fired and inflamed by Satan to this mischiefe but of your mysticall internall and Satanicall prouocations and torments the holy Ghost speaketh not a word I gaue you occasion enough to speake of these things when I tolde you the diuell had nothing to doe with the soules of men but either to tempt them or torment them which words you report but you after your loose maner leade your Reader by by-wayes and crosse-paths to eye other things then you glance at my exceptions forgetting still that the reason which you made remaineth both weake and idle for ought that you haue brought first or last n Defenc. pag. 81. li. 17. Before I answer you directly this we may consider Christ might and no doubt he did in his soule discerne conceiue and applie to himselfe all the rage malice and violence of the Iewes tormenting him to death as set on fire by Satan himselfe and by all the powers of hell You were to proue the diuell himselfe did worke on the Soule of Christ without any meanes of men whom he maketh his Instruments for his wicked purposes and now you tell vs that Satan did set the Iewes hands and tongues on worke to reproch the Soule and torment the Body of Christ. This that you last say is most true and ouerthroweth all that you would say For if Christ discerned and felt no worke nor force of Satan but by the mouthes and hands of the Iewes then certainly Satan had no such inward and spirituall conflict with Christ as you imagine much lesse had Satan any power to possesse and torment the Soule of Christ which is the thing you must proue before your hell paines will be haled out of Christs triumph o Defenc. pag. 81. li. 22. These powers of hell also were set on worke by the Iustice and seuere wrath of God now purposety laying punishment on his Sonne thereby to take Satisfaction for all our sinnes If you meane that God by his secret Counsell and Iustice losed the raines to Satan to shew his malice against Christ by the mouthes and hands of the wicked as he doth in the afflictions of all his Saints for purposes to him knowne and by him liked I see not how this should any thing helpe your Cause but if by this you would that Satan was Gods Instrument inwardly to torment the Soule of Christ or that the diuell had any speciall Commission to inuade the manhoode of Christ otherwise then by the violent hands and virulent tongues of the Iewes as it is most false that you ashrme so is it most wicked that you intend p Defenc. pag. 81. li. 24. Now this feeling and suffering in the Soule of Christ made an other kind of impression in him
Fathers haue duely obserued so much out of the Scriptures c August ad Simpli ââ¦anum li. 2. quaest 1. Vââ¦itur Deus ministres eitam malis ãâã ad vindictam malorum vel ad bonorum probatioââ¦m God vseth as his ministers euill spirits saith Austen to reuenge the wicked and to trie the good Saint Ierom. d Hierony in Ioââ¦l cap. 2. Non solum homines ministri sââ¦t vltores ira eius sed etiam contrariae fortitudines quae appellantur furor ira Dei. Not onely men are Gods ministers and reuenâ⦠of his wrath but also the contrarie powers which are diuels are called the wrath and displeasure of God For e ãâã as the Babiloââ¦ans punishing Ierusalem are called Gods armies so wicked angels are called Gods hosts and camps whiles they execute the Lords will I ãâã sâ⦠Basile f Basil. â⦠Psal. 3â⦠Euill spirits which execute punishment on the wicked and the powers that serue ãâã in that sort are called the Anger and wrath of God And that this was a receaued opinion amongst Christians Ierom giueth testimonie where he saith g Hierony in ãâã cap. 30. Plââ¦rique ãâã ãâã ââ¦am ââ¦uroris Domini Diabolum interpretantur cui tradimur ad puniendum The most of our men interpret the wrath of Gods furie to be the diuell to whom we are deliuered to be punished And to that end this office is assigned the diuell and his angels h Idem in ãâã cap. 30. ãâã ãâã to mentis praepositi sunt Wicked angels are appointed to inflict or execute torments Wherefore this resolution is learnedly and truely made by Zanchius i Duâ⦠ad summam sunt officia ad qua Damones omnes sunt a Deo destinati There are summarââ¦ly two offices to which all the diuels are appointed of God One that by their tentations the godly elect may be exercised in patience and humilitie and so their saluation more and more ââ¦urdered the other that God by them as his ministers and executioners ãâã spirituall and corporall punishments on thâ⦠wicked reprobate k Ibidem Id quod maxime ãâã ãâã fine seculi c. Which shall most be seene in the end of the worlde when God shall perfourme that the diuels shall be tormented themselues and torment others in the place of eternall punishments You take the diuels office from him and impose it on God himselfe making him the tormentor of damned soules with his immediate hand to which incomprehensible punishments as you call them you subiect the soule of Christ on the crosse without ground or grant of holie Scripture and as if this were not desperate impreâ⦠enough with obstinate impudencie you say CERTAINLY it was so l Some God himselfe immediatly inflicted some he inflicted by meanes and instruments but ãâã his hand principally which did whatsoeuer was done vnto him You told vs not twelue lines before that Gods owne hand inflicted on Christ whatsoeuer he suffered now you tell vs some God himselfe immediatly inflicted some by meanes and instruments but ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã The first is a notorious and presumptuous vntrueth no way ãâã by any Scripture the next is a trifling cauill or a pestilent blasphemy for ãâã you meane no more then that God was the principall ãâã and Appointer how in ãâã and his ãâã ãâã should haue power ouer Christes bodie so God is the principall Agent not only in all the ââ¦usterings of Martyrs and Innocents but the supreame and ãâã Director and Disposer of all things done by angels men or diuels A thought can not rise in the heart a word can not proceed out of the mouth the hand can perforâ⦠ãâã act without the power and will of the Creatour In n Acts. ââ¦7 him ãâã moue and ãâã ââ¦ur being and so haue the Angels all whose power commeth from him and ãâã him But if you meane that God by his reuealed will or publike ordinance sââ¦t the Iewes and the diuell on worke to kill his Sonne then you must either excuse them by Gods authoritie or charge God with the same iniquity o Defenc. paâ⦠82. li. 27. You can not say that Christes punishment was Gods meere and bare permission onelie What you meane by meere and bare permission I know not it proceeded I say from the ãâã kinde of will and power in God whence all the trials of his saints and deaths of his ãâã come though this were of more moment then all theirs in that it touched a greater person and tended to a greater honour then men might haue p Ibid. li. 2â⦠Nay ãâã punishment was God written and reuealed will his expresse and publike ordinance and most ãâã appointment from the beginning of the world God in his written and vnwritten decrees in his publike and priuate ordinances is equally wise iust and holy that is he is alwayes like himselfe Wherefore this farre set Preface hath in it no strength to ãâã the whole ãâã of Christes sufferings to Gods immediat hand Did not God expresly by his Prophet denounce to Dauid what he would doe against ãâã ãâã ãâã wise and deuouring him with the sword And yet I trust you will not impute ãâã ambition rebellion and incest to Gods immediat action What q Matth. 24. affliction and tribulation the Church shall suffer towards the end what r 2. Thess 2. strange illusions and lying wondââ¦rs shall leade them to beleeue lies that receiue not the loue of Gods trueth what s â⦠Tim 4. heresie and t 2. Tim. 3. iniquitie shall abound in the latter dayes the written and reuealed will of God his expresse and publike ordinance doth appoint foretell and assure Shall we therefore ascribe all these persecutions delusions and transgressions to Gods immediat action Except you be madde you will be of another minde In decreeing ordering and effecting all these God is most iust pure and holy and yet these actions in their immediat authors perswaders and approuers are most vniust impure and vnholy Wherefore this prating of Gods meere and bare permission will nothing helpe your false and wicked collection But God you say appointed Christes sufferings from the beginning of the world As if any thing were new and lately remembred with God From the beginning of the world all his works were knowen to him little or great all are alike decreed appointed and setled with him u Defenc. pag. 82. li. 33. The whole suffering of Christ was Gods owne and most proper action Most proper is that which is more PROPER then all other or at least as proper as any If these words of yours be true then all that Christ suffered in bodie was as properly Gods action as the creation of the world the renouation of mans minde the infusion of grace the mission of the Holy Ghost and glorification of his Elect. And consequently Christ suffered nothing at the hands of men but all that is reported in the Scriptures of his outward
consequently the infirmities and affections of minde that were griââ¦tious were likewise voluntarie sufferings in him and pertained to the humilitie and obedience to which he submitted himselfe for the fuller satisfaction of our sinnes as well by his life as death That our whole life is a suffering for our sinne in Adam S. Austen exactly noteth d August in Psal. 37. Non enim in illum non est vindicatââ¦m aââ¦t frustra dixerat Deus morte morieris aut aliquid patimur in ista vita nisi ex illa morte quam meruimus primo peccato Neither did God not reuenge Adam nor sayd in vaine Thou shalt die the death neither do we suffer any thing in this life but from that death which we deserued by the first sinne And making an example of hunger sayth e August ibid. Ista fames naturalis quidam morbus est quia natura nobis facta est poena ex vindicta Primo hominâ⦠quod erat poena natura nobis est This hunger of the bodie is a disease of nature because the punishment inflicted on Adam to reuenge his sin is our nature That which was punishment to the first man is become nature to vs. Christ then in partaking our nature did partake with our punishment and his submitting himselfe to that what was it but a continuall suffering of our punishment by feeling our naturall infirmities both of soule and bodie though still without sinne and all naturall necessitie as in vs that his obedience might be the more euident and acceptable vnto God So that it is no equiuocation in me to call feare and sorrow of minde in Christ sufferings for sinne notwithstanding they were innocent and obedient in him and so parts of his humane holinesse and righteousnesse directly tending to satisfaction for our sinfull disobedience The full price and payment whereof was death the close of mans life which as it was the last so was it the greatest and weightiest part of his obedience and recompence to Gods Iustice for our sinnes but it is an idle vagation in you when you can neither refute nor resist the trueth to make an appeale against ambiguities when you your selfe can neither proue nor dare plainly expresse that you intend f Defenc. pag. 92. li. 21. Sir I hope you will not thinke to beat downe all afore you with nothing but cunning yet vaine deceit countenanced out with cruell and hatefull words You lacke an Ostler to bring you to bed you haue trauelled sore as a man may see by your foming at mouth If I say any thing that I doe not particularize and prooue to be the receiued and publike doctrine of Christes Church agreeing with the Scriptures for many hundred yeeres before your deuice of hell paines in Christes soule was heard of amongst Christians let me lose in Gods name both my labour and my credit with the Reader but if you that stand iangling about proper punishment and meere vengeance for sinne and will not one word further crie out in your passions as sicke men do in their dreames that you are ouerborne with cunning and countenance they are not all wise men that haue parts in playes nor all true men that talke of losing by the high wayes g Defenc. pag. 92. li. 24. Further you are in this your Resolution directly contrary to your selfe as before I haue briefly yet sufficiently shewed So saith he that neither agreeth with the trewth noâ⦠with himselfe Ignorance in you is no praeiudice to me much lââ¦sse malitious follie that pronounce before you vnderstand and take nothing right though it be neuer so plainly deliuered In the place where you chalenged my contrarietie I put in a full discharge thereof and here you repeat the very same though you would seeme freshly to find out some solemne matter h Defenc. pag. 92. li. 26. Againe you censure your selfe verie sharply for your resolutenesse in this cause where you say It is curiositie to examine presumption to determine impossibilitie to conclude certainly what was the true cause thereof To affirme euerie thing and confirme nothing is growen now such a trade with you that you haue neither care nor conscience what you say Could you certainly conclude what was the true cause of Christs agonie you The precise and particulaâ⦠cause of Christes agonie is not reuealed though the gââ¦nerall occasions may be con iectured were free from this censure but in that you bring nothing besides your owne conceits no way grounded or supported by any euidence of the sacred Scriptures my speech is verified in you that since it is impossible out of the Scriptures to conclude any certaine that is particuler and praecise cause of this agonie which hath so many parts and secrets not reuealed vnto vs it is presumption in you to determine that the present suffering of hell paines from the immediate hand of god was the cause thereof and to call it in question argueth itching curiositie to search for that which is concealed from vs. Why then doe I conclude resolutely that the cause of Christes agonie i Defenc. pag. 91. li 12. could not proceed but from his submission to God or compassion to men or both Doe I conclude any CERTAINE or precise cause in particuler that make so manie diuersities of generall causes that might be as submission to God or compassion on men or both They say bruite beastes doe bewray themselues to want all reason by want of numbering Take heede least if you see no distance betwixt THREE generall heads or occasions of Christes feares and sorrowes and ONE certaine and precise cause thereof men thincke there lieth somewhat els in you vnder a mans skinne For what els should I say to the grossenes of his conceits that hath not learned to vnderstand the difference betwixt three generall disiunctiues and one speciall and certaine aââ¦firmatiue My resolutenes if your Braines were not buzzed with more pride then skill is against your paines of the damned to be suffered in the Soule of Christ since neither damnation nor confusion could take hold of him but they that will not willfully blind themselues as you doe with your presumptuous fansies must beleeue that pietie to god and charitie to men or both led Christ to these feares and sorowes which the Scriptures mention in his agonie though wee cannot precisely pronounce what particular respects mooued eche afsection in him k Dââ¦fenc pag. 92. li. 29. Thirdly where you make but two causes submission to God and compassion to men els where but one religious feare but before you verie precisely made six if you agree no better with your selfe I haue small hope you will agree with vs. To looke for learning wisdome or sobrietie from him that hath none is to looke in vaine Some would seeme rich by often looking on that little which is left when all is spent and you would seeme learned by oftââ¦n telling vs one tale though it containe nothing but lies
of this iudgment Christ before expressed when he said and I if I were exalted to the Crosse will draw all men vnto me And after when rising from his feruent praier he said z Marke 14. Behold the sonne of man is deliuered into the hands of sinners As also to the Iewes that came to apprehend him a Luke 22. This is your verie hower and the power of darkenes as likewise to Peter when he b Iohn 18. drew his sword and smote the high Priests seruant and cutt of his right eare put vp thy sword into thy sneath b Iohn 18. shall I not drinke of the cup saith Christ which the Father hath giuen me The fruit of this Iudgment is euerie where specified in the Scriptures c 1. Pet. 2. Christ bare our sinnes in his bodie on the Tree by whose stripes ye were healed that being deliuered from sinne wee should liue to righteousnes What need you then so curiously question Against whom or in what cause sate God in iudgment now when Christ was thus astonished and agonized God sate in iudgment to receaue satisfaction for the sinnes of his elect at the hands of his owne Sonne by his humilitie and obedience vnto death d Defenc. pag. 93. li. 3. Of necessitte it must be one of these three wayes First Gods maiestie and great iustice now at this time might sit in iudgment against vs and so consequently yea chiefly against Christ himselfe as our Ransomepaier Suertie in our steed e li. 16. Secondly God might be considered now as iudging Satan the Prince of this world f Pa. 94. li. 40. Thirdly Gods matestie iustice may be considered sitting in iudgment meerely against sinfullmen You be copious where you neede not and carelesse where most cause is you should be circumspect to make an idle shew of small skill you bring here a TRIPLE iudgment of God First against vs and Christ our suertie Secondly against Satan Thirdly against sinnefull men which were either elect or reprobate as though one and the same iudgment of God for mans Redemption did not concerne all three to witt Christ as the Redeemer Gods iudgement for our redemption concerneth Christ men and Satan Satan as the accuser the Elect as the ransomed leauing the reprobate in their sinnes through their vnbeliefe vnto the dreadfull day of vengeance In that the Redeemer was by this iudgment receaued and allowed to make satisfaction for the sinnes of his elect Satan was excluded from all place and power to accuse them for sinne or to raigne ouer them by sinne and the purgation of their sinnes which should beleeue in Christ being made by the Person of the Sauiour they were reconciled to God by the death of Christ and discharged from the wrath to come the anger of god remaining on such as by faith obeied not the sonne of God Saue therfore your fruitlesse paines in the rest and shew why the beholding of Gods power and iustice now sitting in iudgment to redeeme the world and to receaue recompence from the person of Christ for the sinnes of men might not breed a religious feare and trembling in the humane nature of Christ. g Defenc. pag. 93. li. If you meane that thus Christ with submission beholding his Father in iudgement at this time was cast into this agonie it is the verie trewth and the same which we maintaine You take this for a shew to build your fansies on but as your maner is you abuse trewthes to serue your turnes Let it stand for good that Christ now beheld his Father Christ might beholde the power of his Fathers wrath against sinne and yet not feare the vengeance due to the wicked sitting in iudgment to require recompence for the sinnes of the faithfull what followeth that God awarded the selfe same vengeance against the person of Christ that we had deserued and should haue suffered if we had not beene redeemed This is a false hereticall and blasphemous conclusion no way coherent to the premisses and no way consonant to the Scriptures For then finall destruction desperation confusion and euerlasting damnation of soule and bodie to hell fire which without question were the wages of our sinnes as we may see by their example that are not clensed from sinne by the bloud of Christ must without reseruation or remedie haue lighted on the person of Christ. If that vengeance of sinne which was due to vs could by no iustice be inflicted on the person of the sonne of God no not if he had borne the sinnes of the whole world how then could the doubt or feare of his punishment on himselfe cast him into this agony you will release him of the circumstance but tie him to the substance of the selfe same pains which the damned endure When you sitt in iudgement on Christ shew your wicked and witles conceits as much as you list but the father to whom of right it appertained sitting in iudgment to receaue ãâã from the person of his sonne who was most willing thereto ne did ne could by iustice determine any thing against his owne sonne that should either derogate from the person of Christ or abrogate the loue which God professed and pronounced so often from heauen towards him God might haue condemned vs that most iustly deserued it but to adiudge the same condemnation to his owne Sonne was simply impossible to the Iustice holines trueth and loue of God For so the vnion of Christes person must either be dissolued which god hath faithfully sworne and mightily wrought or els the second person in Trinitie must haue tasted of the same vengeance with the damned and with the Diuells which is a blasphemie that the Diuell neuer drempt nor durst to broche h Defenc pag. 93. li. 8. This ãâã not but that Christ had recall paines inflicted from the Father as from the ãâã ãâã ãâã against vs in him who were thus acquited by him Not denying is a slender proofe of that which you should with most infallible certaintie conclude ãâã you did a ãâã If Christes manhood might and did righteously and iustly seare and tremble at the glorie power and maiestie of God sitting now in iudgement to proportion the price that should be payed for mans ransome how doth that ãâã the reall paines of the damned were inflicted on the soule of Christ at that instant except in madde mens conceits which respect more their pangs than their proofs and preferre their willes before the wisdome of Gods spirit or witnesse of mans reason All iudgement against sinne you will say tendeth vnto condemnation No iudgement against the Sonne of God could proceed vnto damnation for what or whose sinnes soeuer And therefore to me and to all that obserue the words of the Holy Ghost it is a cleerer case than the Sunne-shining at noone day that we are reconciled to God by the death of his Sonne and healed by his stripes who bare our sinnes in
the rest which is brought against you but in all our actions dueties and affections we are willed by the holy Ghost to haue a religious and reuerent respect with feare trembling to the word will and presence of God x Heb. 12. Let vs haue grace thereby to serue and please God with reuerence and feare Where we are taught that not sinne but grace maketh men to serue and please God with reuerence and feare which before are called feare and trembling during the time of our conuersing heere on earth Though then Christ did neither flie nor feare the presence of God for any conscience of sinne yet his humane nature consisting of our flesh and compassed as yet with our infirmitie knew well what religious and reuerent submission with feare and trembling was due from the creature to the creator and specially when he presented vs that were sinfull to the throne of Grace for whom he humbled himselfe vnder the mightie hand of God to abolish our pride and approched Gods presence with vnspeakable care and sorow feare and trembling to recompence our heauie dulnesse and carelesse neglect both of Gods anger and our owne danger Which Christ obserued in his owne Disciples that otherwise deerely loued him and were often called on by him to watch and pray and yet were they in their deepest sââ¦eepe when he was in his greatest agonie y Defenc. pag. 93. li 37. No better is that of the Angels meere creatures vailing their faces at the glorious presence of God the Creator of all but Christ the Mediator was not a meere creature but alwayes personally vnited with greater power than the Angels were and alwayes sustained by it As if the manhood of Christ did not hunger and thirst waxed wearie and wept though it were alwayes vnited to his Godhead The greater his power by which he might haue refused and repelled all infirmitie the greater his humilitie and obedience that would subiect himselfe of his owne good will to these afflictions and affections of mans weaknesse By suffering of death as likewise in all our infirmities he made himselfe z Heb. 2. lower than the Angels yet what doth that hinder but the manhood of Christ which was made of a woman and therefore a creature though personally ioyned with the Creator by the great goodnesse and grace of God might in the dayes of his flesh most willingly submit it selfé with religious feare and trembling since that either shewed the thankefulnesse of the creature to the creatour for so great honour and fauour as to be receiued into the coniunction and communion of the Godhead or declared his loue and likenesse tó vs that in our cause would lay downe his power and right for the time and be like affected with vs that so he might commend vs vnto God You can be content that the a Defenc. pag. 94. li. 5. Godhead should purposely hide it selfe as it were and withdraw his wonted comfort that the manhood of Christ might be subiect to the paines of the damned which you call full punishment for vs but you can not heare that the Godhead should guide the manhood of Christ to humble it selfe in our cause with a most religious and reuerent feare and trembling to giue God his due and thereby to teach all his members to doe the like But if the Apostle speake most truely that the b Rom. 8. v. 26 spirit it selfe maketh requests for vs with sighs which cannot be expressed why should not the manhood of Christ much more performe the part that is proper to his office to pray for transgressours with all affection and submission belonging to God either from our nature or from our condition In sinne Christ might not communicate with vs but since sorow for sinne and most humble submission to the power of God displeased with sinne are rather in Christes person recompences for sinne which we could not make than infections of sinne why should you by pretence of Christes power make those religious offices impossible to him whom notwithstanding you will haue amazed and confounded in all the powers and parts of soule and bodie with the terrour and feare of your hell paines Is your zeale so great for Christes power that you will not haue him trouble himselfe with any religious submission of minde to the throne of Gods glorie by his example to teach vs to tremble at the greatnesse thereof and yet you spare not to load him with vnspeakable terrours and feares of Gods indignation and his owne confusion Such deuotion doth well beseeme your hellish inuentions but it no way sorteth with Christian religion c Defenc pag. 93. li. 11. If Austen and others sentences in the 350. and 34. Pages of your Sermons be thus vnderstood that the complaint on the Crosse was not Christs in respect of himselfe but in respect of his Church for whom then and there he answered before God comming now to execute Iudgement for their sinne so are they well and rightly vnderstoode otherwise there is not truth in them namely as you seeme to vse them Your twisting Christs Agonie in the Garden and his complaint on the Crosse in one thread that the one may seeme the cause of the other sheweth your humorous conceit preferring your rash apprehension before the Iudgement of all the auncient Fathers I seuer them because in the first Christ shewed feare and sorow in the second on the Crosle he suffered reall and actuall paine of Body and Soule which of his Agonie you cannot prooue though you presume it neuer so proudly in spite of all the Fathers cited by me of whom you pronounce with as much disdaine as a crauling Creature can there is no truth in them if they be not of your mind But leaue this pride that puffeth you vp with such vanitie and pricketh you forward to so much falsitie Athanasius Cyprian Hilarie Ierom Epiphanius Ambrose Augustine Leo and the rest shall goe with all wise men for religious and aduised Interpreters when such an huff-cap as you are shall be thought fitter to learne hen to teach Of their expositions when we come to that circumstance of Christes passion God willing we will say more in the meane time I might not bury your brauing them that there is no truth in them least with my silence I should smooth your insolence d Defenc. pag. 93. li. ââ¦6 In respect as God proceeded against Satan and for this cause that Christ should be cast into these dreadfull feares sorrowes and bloudy agonies what man of Iudgement will Imagine what colour of likelihood is there in it That Satan was presently cast out from hindering mans saluation and should in the ende be troden vnder foote that Christ obtained by his prayer for vs but what spoyle he should make in the Church of Christ by heresie iniquitie and Tyrannie when our Sauiour beheld who could not be ignorant thereof why should not that mooue the manhood of Christ both grecuously to sorrow
for the weakenesse and dulnesse falles and offences of his members as also with most vehement and inflamed zeale euen vnto the sweating of bloud to pray against the power and rage of Satan to haue it cut short and fully subiected as all other enemies vnder his and our feete And who of any sense will thinke it strange that Christ approching the brunt of his passion should performe that to all which he professed to Peter and the rest e Luke 22. Behold Satan hath desired you to winnow you as wheate but I haue prayed for thee that thy faith faile not because he was the first that should haue most neede Christ was able without prayer if we respect his diuine power to vphold Peter and all the rest against the worst that Satan could doe vnto them f Iohn 17. Whiles I was with them in the world I kept them in thy name those that thou gauest me haue I kept and none of them is lost But this was the time of his submission and humiliation euen vnto death and therefore soreseeing himselfe and all his members by Gods iust iudgement to be so farre deliuered into Satans hands that they should be sifted with all manner of tentations and trials as he most humbly submitted himselfe and his members thereto so he most affectionately and with greater vehemencie then euer man did or could pray desired the feeblenesse and folly of his elect to be forgiuen them and the old and cruell serpents head to be bruized and conquered that he might haue no power but to bite their heeles These I say and many moe occasions and reasons might leade our Sauiour to that prayer so full of compassion and affection to vs that euen feruencie might open the pores of his body and straine forth his bloud to shew that he bent all the powers of Body and Soule in making his prayers vnto God As for ioy and triumph which this conquest ouer Satan did and doth bring I make no doubt thereof but we now speake of the prayer wherewith Christ obtained it and of the triall wherein both head and members were to be conformed and consummate with affliction and that for the time was as sharp as the fruite thereof in the end would be sweete that not onely Christ was first to g Luke 24. suffer those things which the Scriptures mention and so to enter into his glory but h 2. Timoth. 3. as many as will liue godly in Christ Iesus shall suffer persecution For this is the iudgement of God beginning at his owne house and euen at his owne Sonne i Acts. 14. We must through many afflictions enter into the kingdome of God In speaking against these things you shew as much iudgement as you doe in the rest of your conceits which haue your bare word for their best warrant and your vnlearned humour for their chiefest helpe k Defenc. pag. 94. li. Thirdly if you meane that God sate in Iudgement here against the sinnes of the elect Christ knew the eternall and sure decree of God which had turned the cup of vengeance alreadie from them vpon himselfe as being their Suertie so that this commeth to our assertion Christ knew that the second person in Trinitie by whom his manhoode was now assumed had before all worlds consented to beare the burden or punishment of our sinnes in his Body and by himselfe to make the purgation of them and that the Father Sonne and holy Ghost had eternally decreed this to be the meane and ãâã of mans Redemption but as for the Cup of vengeance to be turned on ãâã if thereby you intended the vengeance due to our sinnes and inflicted Christ and his members must ãâã of one and the same Cuppe on the damned which is your designe throughout your Defence then neither had God made any such decree neither did Christ know any such conuersion of the Cup from vs vpon himselfe he rather knew the contrary To Iames and Iohn the Sonnes of Zebedee that asked to sit the one at his right hand the other at his left he answered l Marke 10. Can yee drinke of the Cup that I shall drinke of and they saying they could he replied Ye shall drinke indeede of the cup that I shall drinke of If Christ had the Cup of vengeance common to him with the desperate and damned then Iames and Iohn and consequently all his Disciples and members dranke of the same Cup for they all dranke of his cup. And Paul missed much of his reckning when he said m Phil. 3. I counted all things losse and doe iudge them to be dong that I may know the fellowship of Christs afflictions and be made conformable to his death Can you perswade any man of common sense that Paul was so desirous to suffer the death of the Soule and the paines of the damned that he iudged all things vile in comparison thereof for so he was affected to the fellowship of Christs sufferings which was an other manner of Cup then you conceiue or else Paul erred very grossely in his Account n Defenc. pag. 94. li. 16. Touching the Reprobates doe you thinke that Christ here so vehemently wished them better whom he knew God hated or that for pittie of them he fell into this Agonie and sorowfull prayers Such a Iester besides your selfe a man shall hardly iump with all Of Christs Agonie in the Garden as there were sundry parts so there were sundry causes You take euery particular by the Pole and examine that as if it were offered to be the sole and entire cause of the whole Agonie But leaue this wide wandering and litle vnderstanding and trie whether Christ were not so much affected to his owne Nation that he greatly sorowed for their reiection o Ibid. li. 19. Christ saith a litle before he would not so much as pray for them He would not pray to crosse Gods Counsell towards the whole Nation but onely for such as should beleeue in him yet he pittied them and praied pardon euen for those that put him to death p Luke 23. Father forgiue them for they know not what to doe q Defenc pag 94. li. 20. It is certaine Christ rather would haue greatly reioyced to see the due execution of Gods most holy and deserued Iustice which is a speciall part of his high glory Your certainties are like Spiders webs euery touch will teare them If Christ of your certaine knowledge would haue so greatly reioyced to see the destruction of the Iewes how came it to passe that beholding Ierusalem he wept for it If the remembrance of their desolation moued him to teares would the present sight of their destruction haue bred in him such great ioy as you talke of Haue you so vtterly forgotten what he saith of himselfe at this time of his appearance in his humilitie r Iohn 12. I came not to Iudge the world but to saue the world There is a
disputation that manie here vndertake whether this wish were lawfull or vnlawfull If Paul refââ¦ained thus to wish because it was neither lawfull nor possible actually to obtaine it how senselesse and truethlesse are your foure obseruations grounded vpon the possibilitie and pietie of this wish whereas all men of any iudgement or vnderstanding conclude the cleane contrarie but such is your cariage that except you may crosse the resolutions of all men you thinke your selfe no bodie Be famous therefore in your follie that bring impossibilities and impieties for the chiefe foundation of your late sprung faith your Reader I trust will require some better proofe before he giue you allowance in matters of such moment as these be m Defenc. pag. 97. li. 1. Thirdly that extraordinarily there is greater loue among meere men then only to die bodily one for another though vsually and ordinarily a greater cannot be found among men which is it that Christ meaneth but how much more then may the loue of Christ toward his elect be farre greater contrarie to your assertion pag 107. 108. Your doctrine is all extraordinarie The Defendââ¦r sayth the Scriptures ââ¦re ordinarily true that is sometimes false that no ordinarie rules of the Scriptures can stand with it Howbeit in this you chalenge Christ and not mee who saith n Iohn 15. No man hath greater loue then to lay downe his life for his friend That is ordinarily true you say but extraordinarily false Then extraordinarily by your supposition Christ sometimes speaketh an vntrueth though it be not ordinarie with him so to doe which honor you yeeld to the rest of the Scriptures For when you can not otherwise auoid them those you answeare are the o Defenc. pag. 96. li. 32. ordinarie and common rules of the Scripture But your doctrine consisteth of extraordinarie Rules which are no where found but in your owne braine You haue heard Chrysostome Photius and Zanchius auouch who are the chiefe commenders of the exposition which you would seeme to follow that Paul neither did nor might preferre the loue of his Countriemen before his owne saluation and communion with Christ but that his principall respect in this wish was his loue to the glorie of Christ which he more esteemed then his owne soule So that nothing did hinder Paul to preferre Gods glory before the safety of his owne soule and yet Christes rule to stand true that no man hath greater loue then to lay downe his life for his friend Neither was it the death of the Soule that Paul wished since he would by no meanes as these old and new writers obserue be seuered from the loue and fauour of Christ but from the ioy and honour that is laid vp for the saints of God Peter Martyr is of the same opinion with them p Pet. Martyr in ca. 9. epist. ad Romanos Neither doth Paul in this place say he wished to be separated from the loue of God nullo enim modo voluisset ab illo amando desistere for by no meanes would Paul haue ceased from louing God only he wisheth to be excluded from the blessednesse and fruition of God And this euerie one of vs ought to be willing vnto euen lesse to regard his owne eternall happinesse then the glorie of God Now he that still loueth god and is beloued of him by no meanes can suffer the death or curse of the soule mentioned in the Scriptures q 1. Cor. 16. if any man loue not the Lord Iesus Christ let him be Anathema maranAtha that is accursed in the highest degree then could not the same curse befall him that loued Christ dearer then his owne soule but the words of our Sauiour must needes be verified in him r Maââ¦th 10. he that looseth his soule for my sake shall find or saue it So that neither of your suppositions are true either that Paul preferred the loue of men before the safety of his owne soule or that for their sakes he was content to die the death of the soule mentioned in the Scriptures which is a separation as well from the loue and trueth of God as from the glorie and felicitie of God And your comparison for which you intend all this and wherewith you would crosse my assertion is most vntrue that Christes loue to his elect led him to die the death of the soule or to forgoe the fauour and fellowship of God for their sakes For the coniunction of Christs manhoode to his Godhead being personall was farre greater and nearer then the knitting of Paul or Moses vnto God and if that vnion were broken all the workes and sufferings of Christs manhoode were no way able to bring vs to God Christ could not be content to be separated from God for vs. Wherefore it were a thing extreamly impious in the manhood of Christ and no lesse dangerous to our saluation for him to be content to be vtterly seuered from the vnion and communion of the diuine nature with which he was personally ioined and though your imagination of Moses and Paul be false enough and altogether impossible yet to dreame the like of Christ is the higth of all impietie Neither doth that diminish his loue to vs since there was no need thereof for vs his other suffrings being sufficient in the iust and exact iudgement of God and the loue that led the second person in Trinitie to lay aside for the time the full and perfect fruition of his glorie and equalitie with God his Father and in our flesh to emptie and humble himselfe not only to the infirmities of our nature and miseries of our life but euen to the shame and paine of our death on the Crosse farre exceeded all the loues that men or Angels could shew vnto vs. For there is more distance betweene the glorie and Maiesty of God and the sense and shame of our miserie and mortality then betwixt the saluation or damnation of men or Angels Wherefore Christs loue to vs may not be diminished or made inferiour to the loue of creatures though he were not damned for our sakes since that ineuitablely and irreuocablely would haue fastned vs to a greater condemnation and no way saued vs whereas now his vnspeakable fellowship with God hath recalled vs all from the damnation due to vs to be partakers of the loue and grace that eternally and infinitely he possessed with God s Defenc. pag. 97. li. 6. Fourthly we see here these holy men without feeling any paines inflicted by Gods wrath but only through an earnest and mighty compassion of loue had their minds drawen so wholy to thinke on this speciall thing aboue their reach that during the time they turne not themselues to any other cogitation t li. 17. This you acknowledge may be in men and yet you will not scoffe at them as cast into a Traunce by it nor reproche them with infernall confusion How much lesse ought you so to deale with Christ.
by dangers and doubts weighed and considered by the spirit of Christe I know no reason why you ascribe them meerely to the flesh As for the contrarieties which you would take hold of that Christ as a man did abhorre and feare death and yet not somuch as to fall into that agony or bloudy sweate for feare of his sufferings with such a slacke and shallow Reader as you are they may beare a shew of repugnancie but to any man that marketh or vnderstandeth what is said it accordeth full well that Christ might haue a naturall feare of death which is common to all the godly and yet no such perplexed feare for any sufferings of his as to sweate bloud for paine therof And this maketh more against you then you wil seeme to acknowledge For if Christ had no such afflicting feare in regard of his owne suffring or passion but only in respect of vs and our danger then certainly by the censure of Ambrose Ierom and Bede Christ suffered no paines of hell nor of the damned since they would bread another maner of agony then this life could endure And howsoeuer the view of death fast clasped with hell till Christ did breake the knotte thereof might seeme terrible to Christes humane consideration yet for somuch as he was secured from the one by the innocency vnity and dignity of his person though he submitted himselfe to the death of his body this feare was both righteous and religious and as farre from the paines of the damned as any sufferings of the soule in this life might be e Defenc. pag. 100. li. 10. He would not he could not so feare and be affrighted yea and piteously astonished with such sorrow oppressing him as to sweate drops of bloud onely for feare of his bodily death Neither would he pray at all much lesse so vehemently and so often times as he did against that which he perfectly knew was Gods will and his owne most willing purpose to vndergoe It is more then folly to mistake misplace and misapplie euerie thing after this sort as you doe and then to collect you know not what nor why from your owne vnwise and rash presumptions What if Christ had more cause of sorrow in the Garden then his bodily death ergo he felt the paines of the damned inflicted on his Soule by Gods immediate hand Tie this argument to the manger litter is fitter for it then an answere Such blockish and brutish sequences were the first morter that plastred your hell paines to Christs passion The worke of our redemption which Christ now vndertooke to haue pronounced and setled by the righteous iudgement of God and his Elect to be freed and pardoned of all their sinnes by the sufferings of his person The worke of our redemption was cause enough to prouoke Christs bloudy sweate and to be restored to Gods fauour by his mediation as also satan to be reiected from preuailing against them or so much as accusing them was a matter of the greatest moment in all Christian Religion What maruaile then if the manhood of Christ when it approched so waightie a worke as by prayer first to obtaine and confirme all this that after he might the more cheerefully and constantly accomplish his obedience vnto death What maruaile I say if the glory of Gods iudgement and power of his wrath the number of our sinnes and neglect of our owne state the sharpe and eger malice of satan made Christ with all possible feare of the great might and maiestie of the Iudge all passionate sorrow for the crimes and contempts of the prisoners all earnest and zealous intention of prayer against the impugner and impediment of mans deliuerance to agonize himselfe euen vnto a bloudie sweate If in our prayers the spirit of Christ stirre vp f Rom. 8. sighes vnspeakeable when we remember what danger we were in what sorrow cries and teares may we iustly thinke the fountaine of mercie and pietie would powre forth in our behalfe when our saluation was now in question before the Iudge of all the world and how burned that fire and flame of Christs loue and care for vs till he was comforted and assured from heauen that God would not by our wickednesse or vnworthinesse be stayed from performing his mercies towards vs in Christ his Sonne nor from accepting Christs obedience and sacrifice as the full ransome for all our transgressions notwithstanding all the resistance that sinne or satan could make in the righteous iudgement of God This you will say God long before had purposed and promised vnto his Sonne Christ was most earnestly to aske what God had faithfully promised to graunt And that made Christ the more earnestly pray for it since God had from the beginning determined as well to haue it asked by his Sonne as graunted by himselfe And therefore Christs supplications for vs in the daies of his flesh and at the hower of his passion now approching were as needefull as his sufferings forsomuch as pietie and charitie are perceiued rather by the Soule then by the flesh and God would neuer haue accepted the outward murdering of Christs body without the inward and acceptable sacrifice of his voluntarie obedience patience and loue euen vnto death which were the points that were chieflly pretious in Gods sight g Defenc pag. 100. li. 19. Or else Cyrill meaneth no more but that Christ naturally misliked and ãâã euen as all flesh doth all bodilie paine and death This we alway yeelde and it maketh nothing against vs. It maketh lesse for you that Christ had and lawfully might haue as you graunt a naturall misliking and shunning of all bodily paine and death and consequently knowing the sharpnesse of the paine that was prepared for him on the crosse might without breach of pietie or repugnance to Gods knowen will desire to haue that Cup passe from him if it were possible for man by Gods good pleasure to be otherwise redeemed and saued And this reseruation of Gods will in his prayer FATHER ãâã Luke ââ¦2 IF THOV VVILT take away this Cup from me which was the possibilitie ment by Christ and his present preferring Gods will before the instinct of nature liking ease in presently saying Neuerthelesse not my will but thy will be done doth exquisitely proue that Christ was not astonished in his prayer nor past remembrance of Gods knowen will as you dangerously surmise and no cause you should conclude he felt hell paines in this agonie because the Scripture concealeth the sense of his feruent supplication when after comfort receiued from heauen he fell into an agonie of most earnest and ardent prayer in which his sweate was like drops of bloud And therefore your foolish and wicked imagination that Christ in his agoniâ⦠was so amazed that he knew not what he prayed nor discerned when he impugned the will of God is without all leading or likelihood of the word of God and grounded onely vpon your wilfull and hastie
impressed in them by Gods power and will though whiles strength and memorie dure they may be so confirmed in their good or euill purposes that they doe not yeeld so long as they can make resistance This naturall horror of death which mans soule hath impressed in her by Gods owne doing if Christ would admit in the Garden priuately before his Father as obedient to his ordinance not openly before his enemies to whom he would shew nothing but patience and constance aboue all malefactors and martyrs what force haue your examples to refute this since Christ voluntarily shewed that in the Garden which the soules of all men naturally doe when the feare or force of death falleth on them k Petri Martyris loci communes class 2. loco 1. sect 51. Omnes pij statuunt in morte irâ⦠diuinae sensum esse ideoque sua natura dolorem horrorem incutit quod Christus ipse dum or aret in horto alij multi sancti viri declarauerunt All the godly saith Peter Martyr resolue there is a sense of Gods wrath in bodily death and therefore by the nature thereof it striketh a feare and terrour into vs which Christ himselfe when he prayed in the Garden and many other holy men haue declared To let you farther see that your Malefactors and Martyrs doe not prooue that Christ might not shew himselfe afrayd of death in the Garden though in patience and constancie he exceeded all mankinde when he came to the present feeling of his paines you shall heare the iudgement of S. Austen affirming that Christ by this voluntarie Christ would be like the weake to comfort the weake feare would of mercie conforme himselfe to his weake members for their comfort lest they should despaire when they feele the feare of death oppressing them l August in Iohannem tract 60. Firmissimi quidem Christiani si qui sunt qui nequaquam morte imminente turbantur Sed numquid Christo fortiores Quis hoc insanissimus dixerit Quid est ergo quod ille turbatus est nisi quia infirmos in suo corpore hoc est in sua Ecclesia suâ⦠infirmitatis voluntaria similitudine consolatus est c. They are indeed most setled Christians if there be any such which are not troubled when death approcheth But are they stronger than Christ Who will so say though he were neuer so madde What is it then that Christ was troubled therewith but because by the voluntarie shew of his weaknesse he did comfort those that were weake in his bodie which is his Church that if any of his were troubled with the approching of death they should in spirit beholde him lest thinking themselues by this fearefulnesse to be reprobates they should be swallowed vp with a woorse death of desperation And elswhere with admiration of Christes goodnesse for this verie cause m Idem in Iohannem tract 52. O Lord sayth he God aboue vs Man for vs I acknowledge thy mercy for in that thou being so great wouldest of thy loue be voluntarily troubled by n Ibidem taking the affection of thy members thou doest comfort many in thy bodie the Church which are necessarily troubled with this their infirmitie lest by despairing they should perish So that neither of these wayes Martyrs nor Malefactours are stronger than Christ though he feared death which you imagine they do not but Christ either in respect of his Fathers ordinance against sinne shewed that conflict with death in himselfe which the soules of all men haue naturally be they Martyrs or Malefactors before they depart their bodies or els of mercie towards vs he would voluntarily assume our weaknesse in the Garden lest we should despaire when we feele the stroke and terrour of death as by his example on the crosse he ledde vs to immooueable patience and confidence in all our afflictions Some Malefactors you say despise death often smile in their torments Being hardened in their sinnes and obstinate against God they may haue either stupefaction of sense by Satans meanes to encourage others to the like wickednesse by their contempt of death or els obduration in their mischiefe till the time of repentance be past but their soules that so stifly contemne Gods iudgements haue another maner of terror before they forsake their bodies when indeed it is too late for want of sense and memorie to call for grace And the Martyrs themselues as all good Christians that are resolued not only quietly to suffer but to desire death that they may be with Christ are by Gods grace preserued in that minde so long as vnderstanding and faith preuaile but when the powers of the soule are ouerwhelmed by the violent paines and pangues of death she is by Gods ordinance in all mankinde and euen in the All feele the sting of death which Christ expressed before ãâã aied faithfull suffered to feele the touch and sting of bodily death which is fully knowen to none but to God that ordained it and to herselfe that feeleth it though this agonie of death be shortened or succoured as pleaseth God of his mercie to dispose in euery man and in Gods elect this anguish though it be very sharpe for the time turneth to their good and his glorie God supporting and comforting the soules of his Saints with hope of a better life Your reasons therefore are all idle and impertinent which you draw from the patience of Martyrs or stifnesse of Malefactors For admitting all that to be true which Martyrs by grace and Malefactors of pertinacie performe in their torments whiles strength and memorie serue them yet haue they both their conflicts with death when they can neither speake nor expresse what they feele and malefactors a most fearefull confusion when repentance being past which they neglected their soules are now suffered to see the terrours and torments of hell into which they shall presently depart And this naturall anguish of death which assaulteth all men when the soule feeleth the strangenesse and bitternesse of her diuorce from the bodie Christ might purposely ââ¦uffer to arise in himselfe in the Garden that tasting it with perfect sense and memorie he might sustaine it with greater patience and obedience though it were very painfull than all mankinde besides o Defenc. pag. 101. li. 20. All your answeare is malefactours are no fit comparison for the sonne of God for they are desperate not hauing any feare or care of God till they feele the force of his wrath in hell fire What an answeare is this The answeare is ââ¦itter and fuller then your wit serueth you to vnderstand or your learning to refute For this ignorant or desperate contempt of Gods iudgment which you alleage in malefactors Christ might not follow since he rightly discerned and religiously feared Gods displeasure against sinne euen in the death inflicted on the body of man So that Christ shewed an humble regard of Gods punishment with due feare and sorow which
impenitent Theeues and murderers neglect till it be to late and yet when he came to the very suffering of death on the Crosse his silence and patience farre exceeded both malefactours and martyrs The cause of your error is this that you ascribe that to weaknesse of heart and want of strength in Christ which he of humilitie to God mercie to his members voluntarily admitted in himselfe to comfort and strengthen the weake which are not able to imitate his perfection of patience on the crosse p Leo de Passione Domini serm 7. In our basenesse saith Leo Christe was despised he sorowed in our heauinesse and was crucified in our paine For of mercy he tooke vnto him the passion of our mortality to this end that he might heale it and his power admitted it that he might conquere it All thinges in him were full of mysteries and full of miracles q Bernard serm Agnosco planè in duce belli ãâã trepidationem agnosco agroti vocem in medico agnosco infirmantem gallinam cum pullis confidero charitatem stupeo miserationem 1. de S. ãâã expauesco dignationem I plainly see saith Bernard citing Christes praier in the garden in the captaine of the field the feare of weakelings I see in the Physician the voice of the sicke I see the hen weake with cherishing her yong ones I consider the loue of Christ I am euen amazed at his mercy and I tremble to see what he voutchsafed for vs. r Defenc. pag. 102 li. 1â⦠To leaue these and come to the patience of Martyrs in their sufferings It is admirable what ioy what peace what triumphe they shew in the middest of a thousand most strange and bucherly torments noe lesse if not greater in outward shew then the sufferings of our Sauiour Christe It is farre more admirable in our sauiour Christ that he would be weake for As Christ would be weake to coÌfort the weake in the Garden so was be stronger than the strongest on the Crosse. their sakes that were weake when it pleased him before his passion and strong for their example whom he would make strong when he came to the heigth of his sufferings and by either as wel weakenesse as strength teach vs in both to depend on him and not to exalt our selues against him or afore him as you doe Martyrs with your manifold termes and torments And haue not Martyrs thinke you before they depart this life as great conflicts with the paines and horror of death as Christ had any though the wisdome of God reserue the naturall sting of death till the soule fecle her bodily senses and powers ouerwhelmed and her selfe violently forced to forsake her seat in which case she would vtterly faint if she were not supported by the secret goodnesse of God and taken from that conflict in her bodie by the hands of Angels to be brought with ioy to the presence of God s Cyprianus de Passione Domini That feare of Christes in the garden saith Cyprian expressed the common affection of mans infirmitie and the generalitie of all men that liue in the flesh to be vrged with this sorow and that the dissolution of the soule and the body cannot want this griefe Martyrs you suppose want this griefe or willingly endure it but you are deceiued in either of these as in all things els t August in Iohannem tract 123. Si nulla esset mortis vel parua molestia non esset tam magna martyrum gloria If there were no paine or but small pain in death the glory of martyrs would not be so great saith Austen And againe u ãâã de ciuitate ãâã li. 13. ca. 11. Tam molââ¦sta mors est vt nulla explicari locutione possit nec vlla ratione vitari So pairfull is death that it can by no wordes be expressed nor by no meanes auoided x Bernard de ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã Quid horribilius morte in morte tam dulce carnis animae vinculum amarissimo secandum erit diuortio What is more horrible saith Bernard then death in death the vnion of body and soule which is so sweete shal be seuered with a most bitter diuorce But martyrs you thincke are willing to endure it they find as much vnwillingnesse in nature as they fiind readinesse in faith or desire in hope saue that in them necessity worketh obedience y August de ãâã ãâã serm 32. mortem horret non opinio sed natura It is nature saith Austen not opinion that abhorreth death Quis enim vult mori prorsus nemo it a nemo vt beato Petro diceretur alter te cinget feret z Ibidem sermone 33. quo tu non vis Who will die by his will vtterly no man and so certainely no man that it was said by Christ to Peter another shall gird thee and lead thee whither thou wouldest not when he went euen to martyrdome Death therefore by Gods ordinance hath in it a sting repugnant to mans nature which all men euen martyrs themselues do feele when the paine is so great that it passeth both their strength and their patience the force thereof seuereth their soules from their bodies albeit in Gods Elect all things turne to their good this agonie of death not excepted in which God supporteth them whiles they haue sense that they despaire not and after some conflict with death taketh their soules from them now ioyfull that they are deliuered and shall be presented to the Throne of Grace This Christ alone of all men was able exactly to know and feele in himselfe before and without the pangues of death not that he was weaker than Martyrs but that all the godly might assure themselues he tasted euen the sharpenesse of death to which they are subiect and is able and willing to sustaine vs and saue vs in the naturall conflict and horrour of death as he did himselfe a Defenc. pag. 103. h. 2. All this other godly men do also suffer and feele which they take passing ioyfully and quietly Who told you that there is ioy and rest in the pangues of death Haue the gates Iob. 38. of death beene opened to you or hath any of the dead certified you what ãâã there is in ââ¦euering the soule from the bodie Did God punish Adams disobedience with ioy Martyrs ãâã ioy ãâã ãâã death but not in death and ease or doth nature abhorre pleasure True it is the godly ought not to be dismayed with the feare of death since it is God that woundeth and healeth killeth and quickeneth bringeth to hell and bringeth backe againe but they must acknowledge death to be Gods punishment on Adams sinne and the straightest gate that leadeth to heauen b ãâã de ãâã ãâã This punishment sayth Cyprian was layd on all Adams ofspring without exception that the difficultie of the last passage out of this life should be feared Hanc
agonie With this childish Art you haue almost waded by them not denying as indeede you cannot that they were then before Christs eyes when he feared and sorrowed in the Garden but that either they were no new things to him or else parts of his righteousnesse and holinesse Both which Answeres are very idle For your hell paines if that were part of his Passion were no more newes to his foresight then the rest and all Christs sufferings euen of your hell paines if that conceite had any truth in it were parts of his obedience and patience as well as his suffering of feare and sorrow or of bodily death Wherefore these be but straines and starts to make your Reader beleeue you haue somewhat to say when indeed your oppositions are so sleight that they bewray how gladly you would and how hardly you can distresse any of these causes which I said might concurre in Christs Agonie They all were weightie and godly respects impressing no small degrees of feare sorrow care and zeale on the Soule of Christ and directly pertinent to the worke of our redemption now in hand And where you shift them of as parts of Christs habituall holinesse alwaies resting in him know you good Sir that I speake not in this case of the permanent gifts of grace alwaies inherent in Christs Soule but of the painfull impressions which those respects did therefore now presently and sensiblie make on the Soule of Christ more then at other times because they came now to execution which before were but in cogitation by religious and humble praier he was now to settle the whole course force effects of his sufferings c Defenc. pag. 105. li. 10. Call you this greater perfection in him than in other men to pray expressely against the knowne will of his Father yea against his owne That Christ praied against the knowen will of his Father is an irreligious and dangerous dreame of yours This Toy you trump in euery where as if it were some choise Answere and yet this emptie reason maketh as much against you as against me if there were any waight in it For if Christ did suffer the paines of the damned according to your deuice was it not his Fathers knowen will he should so doe yea and his owne also How then doe the paines of hell excuse him from praying against his Fathers knowen will he was so amazed therewith you will say that he knew not what he did Christ must then be wholy depriued of all vnderstanding if he neither remembred his Fathers will nor his owne nor our saluation for whose sake he was content to suffer And how then came he so suddainly in the very next syllable to remember himselfe and his Fathers will He was now freed you will say from that astonishment How fell he then thrice into it he had so many touches of hell paines which must needs confound all the powers and parts of his body Then all the time of his apprehension examination condemnation and crucifixion he felt no such thing since the Gospels beare witnesse that he wisely religiously constantly carefully and euery way admirably behaued himselfe in eche word and deede after to the instant of his death and remembred all things that were written of him Is not here a fine mockerie which is the fortresse of all your hidden mysteries that to prooue your hell paines you must bring Christ into three such fits and pangs of confusion and obliuion that he knew not what he said or did presently with the speaking of YET to restore him againe to his perfect sense and memorie and so to free him from all your new deuised Passions besides your selues no writer old nor new did euer find in Christs prayer that he knew not what he said and the condition added before his prayer d Luke 22. Father if thou wilt take away this Cup from me and the submission following with the same breath yet not my will but thine be done doe plainely prooue that Christ had exact remembrance and regard of his fathers will besides that the Apostle affirmeth of this prayer that Christ e Heb. 5. was heard in that he feared So that if this be all the Scripture you can produce for your hell paines I protest before God and his whole Church I will sooner beleeue that you were out of your wits in writing this then that Christ was forgetfull in praying that which he spake in the Garden f Defenc. pag. 105. li. 10. Againe could this thing in any reason be such an horrible griefe vnto him to haue his flesh lie dead for a day and a few howers would the thought of this make him sweat bloud for griefe and to neede an Angell from heauen to comfort him and to pray three times vehemently this cup might passe from him verily it is vnreasonable to thinkeso Who hath bewitched you thus openly and vsually to fasten on vntrueths I alleaged six causes that might ãâã in Christes agonie you haue piked out of my wordes foure more then euer I ment to be reasons of his bloudie sweate and are nine of these now puft away with a breath and nothing left by your swelling and insulting eloquence but the deadnesse of Christs body whiles the soule wanted this it is for a man to trust to his tongue when his teeth be gone and to bleate when he cannot bite If the cause were not Gods it might be thought a pastime thus to faine and face but in so serious questions to vse such idle and false imputations and friuolous refutations is a griefe to any good mans eares and a corrosiue to his conscience Of Christes agony and the causes that might occasion his feare his sorow and his zeale in the garden I haue said so much that I am wearie with repeating though you be neuer weary with resuming the selfe same childish and erroneous mistaking The reason of my speach is plaine and euident howsoeuer you take the course rather to misreport it then refute it For if the soules of Gods saincts doe by nature vnwillingly leaue their bodies to which they are vnited though by them they are often molested and burdened otherwise death were no punishment of sinne but a signe of Gods far our which is nothing so how farre iuster cause then was there Christ should naturally dislike death not only because it was a subuersion of nature created quickned by God and an effect of Gods displeasure against sinne imposed on all men but also for that it should during the time depriue him of life sense and action with great slaunder and infamie and cheefely should exclude for a season his bodie from that blessed communion and fruition of his diuine grace and glorie which formerly it felt though the personall vnion should not be disââ¦olued now the more Christ liked and loued that adherence to God which he liuing enioied the more grieuous was the want thereof which death tooke from him for
for the manhood of Christ to say my God my God why hast thou so long forsaken me without any publike signe or shew that thou louest and fauourest me whom this nation had so much wronged and blasphemed or is it of late become so shamefull a thing with you that Christ should complaine he was forsaken and left in the hands of his persuers without help or ease both old and new writers euen of the best learned that haue been in Christs Church haue thought it no shame for Christ in that very respect so to speake o Hieronym in Matth ca. 27. Maruaile not saith Ierom at Christes complaint of being forsaken when thou seest the scandall of his crosse p ãâã de fide li. 2. ca. 3. He speaketh as a man saith Ambrose which was no shame for him to doe because being in danger we thinke our selues forsaken of God The same wordes q ãâã in Mar. ca. 14. Bede r ãâã in ãâã ca. 27. Rabanus and r ãâã in ãâã ca. 27. Aquinas repeat and follow Theodoret saith Christ s ãâã in ãâã 21. calleth that a dereliction which was a permission of the diuinity that the humanity should suffer Christe would endure saieth Austen this vnto death in the sight of his enemies that they might take him as one forsaken Lyra. u ãâã Mat. ca 27. Dixit ãâã derclictum a deo ãâã quia dimittebat cum in manibus occidentium Christ saith he was forsaken of God his father because he was left in the hands of those that slew him And so our new writers August epist. 120 x ãâã in Mat. ca. 27. Hic questus est se in manibus impiorum adomnem ipsorvm libidinem a patre derelictum Christ heere complained saith Bucer that he was forsaken of his father or left in the ãâã of the wicked to endure all their rage Bullinger y Bullingerus in Matth. ca. 27. Derelinquere siue deserere in ãâã est permittere To forsake or leaue in Christes wordes on the Crosse is to permit So that this was Christs meaning why doest thou suffer me to be thus afflicted why doest thou permit these things to mine enemies when wilt thou deliuer me Munster z Munsterus in Psalm 21. haec Christi verbanon impatientiam aliquam aut diffidenÌtiam prae se ferunt c these words of Christ My God my God why hast thou forsaken mee shew no impatience or diffidence but declare that he was a true man and that he had truely suffered And what if as some learned Fathers conceaue Christ did not grieuously complaine in those wordes that he was forsaken but thereby led his enemies to looke and search in the Psalmes Prophets for the cause why the messias should be so forsaken deliuered into the hands of sinners as they saw he was a August epist. 120. Christ doth not say saith Austen my God my God why hast thou forsaken me sed causum commonuit requirendam cum addidit vt quid dereliquisti me id est propter quid quam ob causam but he admonished the cause to be searched when he added why hast thou forsaken me that is to what end and for what cause for truely there was a cause and that no small cause why God would not deliuer Christ from the handes of the Iewes but leaue him in the power of his persecutors till he died Leo likewise b Leo de Passione ãâã ãâã 17. Therefore Christ cried with a loud voice why hast thou forsaken me that he might make it knowen to all for what cause he ought not to be deliuered nor defended sed saeuientium manibus derelinqui but to be left in the hands of his pursuers which was to be made the Sauiour of the world and the Redeemer of all men non per miseriam sed per misericordiam non amissione auxilij sed definitione moriendi not by any miserable necessitie but of mercie not for lacke of helpe but of purpose to die for vs Whether then Christs meaning in those wordes if we apply them to his owne person were to hasten the time of his death which he knew was at hand and should bring him case of his excessiue How many meanings ãâã words on the ãâã ãâã haue paines or to mooue his father to demonstrate by those signes which followed what fauour and affection he bare to the person of his sonne though for our sakes he suffered him thus to be vsed or to teach his persecutors that there was a cause which they knew not why himselfe being their messias should die this death on the crosse or last whether his manhood conformed it selfe to the desires and grones of his church and members whom the Prophets teach in this wise to pray when they were oppressed with any great calamity or misery none of these waies I say are the wordes of Christ on the crosse chalengeable but they stand well with the piety patience confidence and expectance that were in Christ and haue better foundation in the sacred Scriptures then your paines of the damned or your second death to be then and there suffered in the soule of Christ. c Defenc. pag. 110. li. 7. The bare names againe of Austen Ambrose Ierom doe here likewise no good this is but a weake kind of reasoning for so learned a Diuine as you are I like better this kind of weakenesse in matters of faith to haue the consent of the learned and auncient fathers for that I teach then your kind of strength which is to be so stiffe in your priuate conceits that you will delude the Scriptures with your figures and deride the fathers as seely fooles not vnderstanding the first principles of Religion rather then you will forgoe the least of your fansies If you light on any Reader of the same mind let him know that the choice wil be hard for him to make whether all the fathers in Christes Church did erre in the chiefe grounds of their faith or he himselfe be out of the trueth If Christian Religion were not since Christes time before our age this is a greater forsaking of Christ then any was on the Crosse. For then hath God forgotten all his purposes and promises so often mentioned in the Prophets and confirmed to Christ if there were neuer Church of Christ since the Apostles death till our dayes And he that is of that humour it skilleth not greatly of what side he be for certainly he can be no member of Christs Church that reiecteth all persons places and ages before his birth as none of Christs I wish no wise nor sober Reader so farre to venture his soule If then to the Primatiue Church of Christ next after the Apostles we yeeld but ordinary knowledge of the Christian faith we may not take from so many learned fathers and Pastours as God hath for so many hundred yeares adorned his Church withall the common vnderstanding of their Catechisme and
Creed how we were saued and what is the price of our Redemption specially the Scriptures going so cleare with them and they teaching so closely and soundly the trueth there expressed d Defenc. pag. 110. li. 9. These very sentences of the fathers I can easily admit if they import no more then that those outward afflictions on the Crosse were SOME CAVSES AND THAT NO SMAL of his complaint alwaies remembring that some greater cause also did concurre and was conioined with them Then by your owne confession haue the fathers spoken trueth and there was small or no cause giuen you to make so light regard of them As for your other greater cause when you prooue by Scripture as you intend that Christs soule on the crosse suffered the second death and the paines of the damned you shall haue a speciall reseruation that your fansies may be conioined with Christs praiers otherwise your reasons be like your resolutions they haue neither proofe nor strength besides your owne priuate and presumptuous perswasions e Defenc. pag. 110. li. 14. Your third sense if I conceiue it aright is that his being left to bodily death caused him thus to mourne which is but as the last before And yet you seeme to meane not only that but also because his flesh now should want all feeling of his heauenly comfort for that while that it should remaine dead A maruailous exquisite and farre fet cause The sense is neither mine nor so farre fet as you would make it I tooke it out of Tertullian Hilarie and The third sense of Christs complaint on the crosse Epiphanius whose wordes I produced to that purpose and howsoeuer you gibe at it after your scornefull maner I suppose it will prooue sounder then your hellish death which you haue so learnedly deuised out of their words The difference betwixt this and the former sense is not great For there the fathers ment Christ was forsaken that is not deliuered from the rage of his persecutors whiles he liued and these doe adde that he was left vnto death presuming death to be the greatest and most grieuous of all outward afflictions which in this life befall the nature of man f Defenc. pag. 110. li. 19. Yet me thinks as this crosseth your other expositions here so it is flat contrarie to the Scripture also If the expositions were contrary each to other so long as they be sundrie mens and repeated onely by me to shew how many senses haue beene deliuered in the Church of Christ by learned and auncient Fathers touching that complaint or praier of Christ which you would faine abuse to hatch your hell-paines what els note you by their contratiety but the diuersity of mens iudgements vpon these words all which conioined in this against you that Christes complaint on the crosse may diuersly be conceaued according to the different acceptions of forsaking and yet your paines of the damned haue no place in that variety or contrariety of ââ¦enses But this third sense you say is flat contrarie to the Scripture That were worth the hearing indeed if your foolish conceits were not farre more likely to crosse both themselues the Scriptures then iustly to controle the iudgements of so learned fathers But what is this great ouersight that is so much repugnant to the Scripture the Scripture g Ibid. li. 21. giueth after a sort to Christes dead flesh this LIVELY AFFECTION my flesh shall rest in hope The soule of Christ which was replenished with life trueth and grace as being personally vnited vnto God and of whose fullnesse we all haue receaued you affirme died on the Crosse and none other death then the second death and Christs flesh lying dead in the graue you imagine not only to haue life but to be a liuing spirit For you giue vnto it the liuely affection of hope which nothing hath that is not a liuing and reasonable soule or more You doe it you will say but after a sort That sort is absurd inough of figuratiue speaches in the Scriptures to make positiue doctrines For if you defend that the dead flesh of Christ in the graue had indeed any liuely affection of hope in part or in whole it is a brutish heresie denying that Christ was truely dead and that his body was truely flesh since a liuely hope impoââ¦teth not only life but vnderstanding and faith If you graunt these speaches to be figuratiue then doe you betray your folly to thwart the fathers assertions with figuratiue florishes as if they were proper and to pronounce their sayings flat contrary to the Scriptures because you can pike out a word that in outward shew soundeth somewhat strangely Hope in these wordes of Dauid is either applied to the soule of Christ in respect of the resurrection of his body which he beleeued and hoped for as most assured or if we apply it to the body it noteth safety from corruption and promise made by God of speedie resurrection which was the thing wherewith Christs bodie might be inuested But we shall haue mainer proofe for this matter h Defenc. pag. 110. li. 24. Is it likely is it possible that he should so dolefully mourne that either he should bodily dy or that his body should want the sense of his diuine presence so little a while when as in HIS MINDHE SPEAKETH SO TRIVMPHANTLY of his CONSTANT and CONTINVALLIOY IN GOD yea not excluding euen his body though dead from participating in some sort therein as we read in the former place at large I i Act 2. 26 27. BEHEID the Lord alwaies The Defender ãâã contradicteth his owne doctrine before me for he is at my right hand that I should not bâ⦠shaken Therefore did mine heart reioice and my tongue was glad and moreouer my flesh shall rest in hope Now can a man in this EXCEEDING GENERALL and CONSTANTIOY so vncomfortably mourne in that sense as you vrge My God my God why forsakest thou my flesh it cannot be I would not thinke it likely nor possible if I did not see it before mine eies that such a pert Proctour should so proudly despise all auncient writers and fathers that fauour not his faction and yet so palpably confound himselfe and his whole cause with ouermuch prating For Christian Reader I pray thee take no more but his owne confession or assertion in this place by which he thought to ouerbeare all that stood in his way and obserue both how desperatly he contradicteth himselfe and how sensibly he subuerteth his whole doctrine and his deuice of this new found hell But the lease before he told vs peremptorily that k Pa. 108. li. 8. Christes Godhead as it were withdrawing and hiding it selfe from him for that season of his passion gaue him NO SENSE NOR FEELING OF COMFORT OR IOY in spirit soule or body Now suddainly whiles he eagerly hunteth after his hell paines he not onely falleth ouer head and eares into the myre of contradictions
but he clearely confesseth before hand that all which himselfe will say touching the second death of Christes soule on the crosse is apparantly false doctrine and euidently repugnant to the sacred Scriptures Thou wilt maruaile much at this and so doe I but that Liars are often so earnest to serue their turnes and not the trueth that they forget their former tales whiles they inuent newer As here for example He that would before allow to Christ on the crosse NO SENSE NOR FEELING OF COMFORT OR IOY in spirit soule or body Now vrgeth to promote another purpose Christs EXCEEDING GENERALL AND CONSTANT IOY euen at the same time when he spake these wordes My God my God why hast thou forsaken me and not content with this he addeth that Christ euen then IN HIS MIND SPAKE TRIVMPHANTLY OF HIS CONSTANT and CONTINVALL IOY in GOD and prooueth it by the words of the holy Ghost where Dauid being a Prophet spake concerning Christ on the Crosse that he l Acts 2. beheld the Lord alwaies before him at his right hand that he should not be shaken And therefore did Christs hart reioyce and his tongue was glad Vnderstand you sit faith-maker the difference or repugnance betweene NO SENSE NOR FEELING OF COMFORTOR IOY in spirit soule or body A most shamefull contradiction and EXCEEDING GENERALL CONSTANT and TRIVMPHANT IOY in GOD in the mind of Christ can you read this and not thinke you reele as your reasons doe to and fro can you salue this sore without sweating or make vp this breach without blushing and I pray you since the ground of these wordes is true in that it is the holy Ghosts and you may not flie from your owne inference which you presse so violently against the fathers to beate downe their exposition how could Christs Soule on the crosse IN THIS EXCEEDING GENERALL CONTINVALL CONSTANT and TRIVMPHANT IOY OF MIND suffer also the paines of the damned and the second death wherein IS NO SENSE NOR FEELING OF ANY COMFORT OR IOY IN body soule or spirit Can you hang these gymmoes together that the one shall not crie shamefull and intolerable falsehood against the other the best excuse that I can make for your to saue you from ebriety or frensie is that these things were posted ouer to you from diuers that saw not each others fansies and so without due perusing or remembring where they crossed ech other you patched their papers together with more hast then good speed How beit surely I take it to be a iust iudgement of God when you are diuided from the trueth to diuide either your tongues from your harts or your harts from themselues that all men may learne to take heed how they dally with the Christian faith or delude the Scriptures I thanke God I hate you not so much but for your owne sake I could wish you had beene silenter or circumspecter And see how euill you lucke or at least your cause is For heere haue you spoken enough to confute all that you formerly haue said and afterward will say and yet you haue brought nothing to infringe that which I said For a naturall seare and mislike of death as also griefe and sharpnesse of paine in the body may well stand with a continuall and constant comfort in God yea where grace is present and preuaileth the m 2 Cor. 4. perishing of the outward man bringeth the renewing of the inward man and bitter affliction maketh vs seeke after God and call vpon him the more earnestly for his assistance in which case it is most true that Gods n 2. Cor. 12. power is perfected in our infirmity For when I am weake saith the Apostle in body then I am strong in spirit And if Paul could o 2. Cor. 12. delight in reproches persecutions and anguishes for Christes sake and yet feele the smart of them could not Christ retaine comfort in his afflictions though his flesh were pressed with extreame paine Many thinges more may be strongly alleaged against this opinion With such strength as you haue already shewed whereneither words nor matter shall hang together p Defenc. pag. 110 li. 37. As first that seeing he perfectly knew that as his flesh should now quietly rest so his soule should enioy perfect glory and comfort more then before it did That doth not quench the detestation Was there no comfort in all this which mans nature hath of death euen by Gods ordinance though it comfort and courage the soule in hope of future blisse to indure the paine and horrour of death S. Austen saith q August epistola 120. Nemo vnquam carnem suam odio habuit et praeterea non vult anima vel ad tempus abeius etiam insirmitate descedere quamuis ãâã se sine infirmitate in aeternum recepturamesse confidat Tantam habet vim carnis animae dulce consortium No man euer hated his owne flesh and therefore the soule is not willing to depart euen from the weakenesse of the body for a time though she beleeue that she shall receiue her flesh againe for euer without infirmity Of so great ãâã is the sweet ãâã betwixt the soule and the body And so againe r ãâã tract in ãâã 123. This affection of mans weakenesse whereby no man is willing to die is so naturall that age could not take it from blessed Peter to whom it was said by Christ when ãâã ãâã old thou shalt be led whither thou wouldest not And to comfort us our ãâã himselfe assumed and shewed this affection in himselfe when he said Father if it be possible let this cup passe from me So that these respects made Christ the more comfortable in death but by no meanes did vtterly quench the naturall dislike that Christes manhood had and lawfully might haue of death knowing it to be the punishment of sinne and dissolution of our creation though by Gods goodnesse it be now made a passââ¦ge in his to a better life Your next reason is of the same stamp The resurrection of the body maketh no man willing to die if he could with Gods liking decline death but obedience ouerruleth the naturall instinct that God hath impressed in vs to abhorre death And where you take it for a mighty'pillar in your building that Christ s Pa. 111. li. 6. would not so extreamly mourne and complaine only for this cause as my fansie importeth you build but on sand which will haue the greater fall For I shew you many more causes and senses of those words then this only all which you kindly skippe and pretend this only which I neuer professed calling it my fansie that I cited out of auncient and reuerend writers t Defenc. pag. 111. li. 8 Further he knew perfectly that this was the very appointment of God for the obtaining of his most desired purchase of our health for the more aduancing of Gods glorie and for the aduancing of his very manhood Finally it was
haue resisted his pursuers And touching that kind of forsaking which you dreame of he saith e Ibidem Iudââ¦orum hoc fuerit vt Iesum crederent a Deo relictum in quem tanto scelere saeuire potuissent qui sacrilega illusione dicebant alios saluos fecit seipsum non potest saluum facere Let vs leaue this to the Iewes to thinke Christ forsaken of God on whom they could execute their rage with such wickednesse who sacriligiously deriding him saied he saued others he cannot saue himselfe He was then forsaken of his father when he was deliuered into the hands of the wicked that is he was not defended from them yea he would forsake himselfe that is he would vse no manifest power against them but willingly yeelded himselfe into their hands to suffer what they would This is the forsaking saith Leo which the Scripture alloweth That other sort of forsaking that God indeed had left him would not help him in his good time that is rather the perfidiousnesse of the Iewes which obiected so much vnto him then the faith of Christians Origen you say is here as weake and why because you say the word you take vpon you like a Iudge to set downe your vnwise censure on euery mans words you take not the paines to refute them by any colour or shew of reason Origen saith that f Origââ¦n ãâã Matth. ãâã 35. Christ was forsaken of his Father when he tooke vnto him the forme of a seruant and came to the death of the crosse which amongest men seemed most shamefull Then maiest thou plainly vnderstand what he ment when he sayd why hast thou forsaken me comparing that glory which he had with his Father to this shame which he despised enduring the Crosse. Tell vs not what you will mislike but what you can refute in this saying And since you require the reasons of all other mens speaches and thinke your selfe priuiledged to speake without all reason what say you which was the greater abasing or forsaking for God to lay aside the power and glory of his maiesty and to take vnto him the shape of a seruant and therein to die the shamefull death of the crosse or for man to want comfort in his affliction which was the greater emptying or humbling himselfe in Christ If Origen in this point be weake the Apostle is as weake who nameth this as the greatest g Phil. 2. EXINANITION that Christ endured saying he being in the forme of God that is equall with God emptied himselfe and tooke on him the forme of a seruant and humbled himselfe and became obedient to the death euen the death of the Crosse. Origen goeth right with the Apostles words and saith this was the greatest dereliction or humiliation that Christ suffered and before you can with any reason controle this speach you must correct the Apostles text and in steed of the death of the Crosse put in the death of the damned which is a mystery the apostle neuer heard nor spake of Origen therefore concludeth h Origen vâ⦠supra Vnde non estimes more humano Saluatorem ista ãâã propter ãâã quae comprehenderat eum in cruce Wherefore thinke not our Sauiour spake this after the mââ¦ner of men for the calamity which apprehended him on the crosse For so if ãâã take it thou shalt not seeke for things worthy his diuine voice i Defenc. pag. 114. li. 6. Also these senses be contrary to all the rest here obserued If they were what is that to the goodnesse of your cause Is it such newes that diuers men should make ãâã senses of some places in holy Scriptures If there be so abundant and different meanings of these wordes then your conclusion of hell-paines out of that complaint is more than crackt What warrant haue you but your owne will to make any such construction of Christes words And the word forsaking hauing so many degrees respects and diuersities as wee see by these learned Fathers you must proclaime your selfe more than a Patriarke euen a Pope that must haue and will haue the sense of holy Scripture shut vp in the closet of your owne brest before your inference of hell-paines suffered in the soule of Christ will be consequent to these words k Defenc pag. 114. li. 7. Your sixth and last sense is likewise contrary to the rest and as improbable in it selfe or more than the former That Christ should here cite the beginning of that Psalme onely to shew the Iewes that their wrongs towards him were prophesied of before This alreadie I The sixt sense of Christs complaint on the crosse fully answered which you refute not What should I refute a brainsicke Presumer of his owne ignorant conceit and a proud despiser of all other mens words and reasons This you say you haue alreadie fullie answered in your Treatise If you had sayd foolely I might the sooner haue beleeued you for what is there in that answere but extreame pride and follie All your answere is l Trea. pa. 66. li 31. Which sense is most absurd What patch can not presently giue this answere to any thing But more fully you say m Ibid pag. 67. li. 7. This is too fond to be spoken Such liquor doth rellish well your lippes All mens sayings are fond to a foole saue his owne which are most foolish of all I brought you the iudgements of Ierom and Chrysostom and all the answere you vouchsafed vnto them is that which I now repeat which whether it sauour of any sobrietie I relinquish to the Reader But you adde a reason thereof in your Treatise Such as would make a man sicke to heare an idle companion prate so boldly and loosely Your reason forsooth is for so you will haue it called n Ibid. pag. 66. li. 32. As if when they had mocked and reuiled him at noone or before he would then three whole houres after tell them of such an answere in the Prophet As if you stood by and kept the Register when they left mocking and deriding Christ on the crosse That he was crucified about mid-noone and spake these words about the ninth houre which was three of the clocke after noone the Scripture doth witnesse but how long they continued their scorning and scoffing at him no Scripture doth limit Saint Matthew nameth the high o Matth. 27. vers 41. Priests with the Scribes Elders and Pharises the p ãâã ãâã that were crucified with him and such as q ãâã passed by reuiled him wagging their ââ¦eads and r ãâã saying Thou that destroyest the Temple and buildest it in three dayes saue thy selfe If thou be the Sonne of God come downe from the crosse S. Luke addeth That s Luc. 22. v. 35. the people which stood and beheld mocked him as well as the Rulers and the souldiers also mocked him and came and offered him vineger How long this continued from all sorts standing and passing by
so grieuous feare trouble and sorow of mind or soule that he cried out My God my God why hast thou forsaken me I make good difference betwixt the Booke of Homilies confirmed as well by the publicke authority of Prince and Parliament Anno Reginae 13. ca 12 as by the generall subscription of the vpper and neather house in the conuocation Anno 1571 to a In the 35. article of Homilies containe godlie wholesome and necessarie doctrine and the Catechisme then licenced to be taught in Schooles to yong scholers but without any such autoritie as the former is Shew the like approbation and you shall freely call it the publike autorized doctrine of England till you doe so giue me leaue to tell you that the one is indeede by publicke authority receaued and ratified euen as the articles are the other was by priuate discretion permitted and tolerated to be taught in Grammar schooles but publicke authority of the whole Realme you may chalenge none vnto it And therefore I take my selfe in matters of faith not bound vnto it farder then it accordeth with the manifest trueth deliuered in the ââ¦acred Scriptures Againe your selfe doâ⦠more impugne the Catechisme then I doe For if your owne wordes be true that Christ when he vttered those b Defenc. pag. 110. li. 28. 34. words spake in his mind of his constant and continuall ioy in God and was in exceeding generall and constant ioy What place leaue you for any of those wordes which you cite out of the Catechisme to haue any trueth in them since they speake of exceeding and horrible feares and sorrows which I thinke are contrarie to your triumphant generall and constant ioy And although I thinke it no reason that a thing priuatly permitted should abrogate the full and maine consent of the learned and auntient Fathers as you would haue it to doe and therefore make it free when the Carechisme swatueth from their sense and interpretation to be of another mind yet I condemne nothing in it as wicked but wish that soââ¦e few places had been more cleerly and more particularlââ¦e deliuered and expressed to auoid such cauillers as you and some others are But you with open mouth reiââ¦ct euen those places which now you produce as passing strange doctrine and simply impossible For where the Catechisme here in these words which you alleage saith Christ was Aeternae mortis horrore perfusus perfused or wholy touched with an horror which is a trembling feare of eternall death you not only reason against it that c Defenc. pag. 9â⦠li. 13. Christ could not feare that which he perfectly knew concerned him not at all and by no meanes could euer possibly come neere him but you make it d li. 12. passing strange doctrine and simply impossible that Christ should feare or pray against the whole and intire cup of eternall death And yet the Catechisme saith he trembled and was ouercast with the horror of it You misââ¦ike that the Catechisme saith except you may peruert it to your pleasure and in steed of fearing eternall death you say Christ suffered the second death which is die death of the damned and so refusing the Catechisme for saying so much you say more and thinke the Catechisme is of your mind But sir tell vs how Christ could be stroken with the HORROR OF ETERNALL DEATH for those aââ¦e the wordes of the Catechisme and not how he suffered your new made hell which the Catechisme neuer speaketh of I haue deliuered two senses to salue the Catechisme which you impugne The first that Christ in respect of his members to whom that death was due might in loue and pietie towards them inwardly tremble at the punishment deserued by them since mercie maketh vs truely feele the very smart of other mens harmes and dangers and where we hartily loue no lesse then if they were imminent ouer our owne heads The second that Christ fearing the power of Gods wrath against sinne which is infinite may in a sort be sayd to tremble at the effects thereof by reason he trembled at the cause thereof And in this sense the consideration and apprehension of Gods infinite power and displeasure against sinne might brââ¦ede those horrible feares and sorrowes which the Catcchisme talketh of Otherwise I must be plaine the Catechisme sayth more then can be prooued by any Scripture or any learned and auncient Father and more then you your selfe allow or like saue that you would out of his vehement speaches make some aduantage to your cause though in substance you wholy dissent from the maker thereof For he speaketh of feare and sorrow you of re ãâã al solute suffering he of eternall death due to sin you of a new found hell from the immediate hand of God which is no part of the Catcchisers meaning since he plainely nameth future and euerlasting death due to sinners and not a present and temporall hell which is not the full wages of sinne nor of the damned The like I say for the notes added by the Printer or correctour to the great Bible whose text is authorized to be read in the Church but not the notes to be of equall credit or authoritie with the text And if you may turne of the whole aââ¦ay of auncient and Catholike Fathers because they diflent from your conceits how much lesse am I bound to correctours or Printers adding often times to other mens workes and labours what pleaseth themselues Though the note be not such but that it may receiue the former construction and be tolerated welâ⦠enough Wherefore I meane euen the same giddy spirit which before I did buzzing in the eares of the people his owne fancies against the Scriptures against the Fathers and against the doctrine of this Realme confirmed by publike authoritie of Prince and Parliament The recollecting of your former reason so lately and largely answered I omit as tedious trifling and since you say no more then is before refuted what should I trouble my selfe and the Reader with repeating the same things so often iterated e Defenc pag. 118. li. 10. You haue yet heere and there some exceptions against this our doctrine which are not to be cleane neglected First you say I extend Christs agonie to farre because I will haue is proceede from the intolerable sorrowes and horrors of Gods siery wrath equall to ââ¦ell I shew not there the cause of Christs agonie and feare I shewed it of purpose in the beginning Why did you not refuse that You extend it so farre according to my wordes yea your maine purpose is to make that the cause of Christs agonie in the garden and on the crosse onely you would vse some cunning in the carriage of it first to make sorrowes and feares the cause thereof and at the next step to aske what sorrowes and feares could those be but the intolerable sorowes and horrors of Gods fierie wrath equall to hell And to this end you quote both the
Catechisme and the notes in the great Bible here to shew the cause of Christs agonie to be these horrible sorrowes and torments as the Catechisme sayth of future and euerlasting death Why then are you so nice when you fully intend it in shew to denie it why did you not refuse that in the beginning The causes that might concurre in Christs agonie I shewed in my sermons out of the auncient Fathers agreeing with the Scriptures why should I repeate it againe in my conclusion you bringing nothing against it but a few voluntarie and emptie words which I know no man so vnwise as to regard without better proofe f pa 118. li. 32 There is no other sorrow in the world to be found which can be imagined to be the cause possibly You erre as well in aggrauating Christs agonie aboue that the text auoucheth as in assigning a false cause thereof out of your owne fansie Feare and sorrow the Scripture affirmeth in Christ if we so interprete the words as you doe but such feare and such sorow as cannot be found in the world except the feares sorowes of the second death this is your bold assertion no way mentioned nor purposed in the Scriptures nor grounded on any sound reason or experience For where the paines of some kinds of bodily deaths be often greater then mans nature can endure and therefore violently part the soule from the body what did hinder the paines of Christs body on the crosse to be such that they pressed his patience to the highest degree since he would not strengthen his flesh to sustaine the paines of hell as you pretend but layd downe all power that he might feele the smart and anguish of his bodily torments as tenderly as any man could Now what paines in others ouerwhelme the senses and hasten death as passing the strength of mans nature why might not euen the same bodily paines in Christ so presse his humane weakenesse that he felt himselfe able with patience to support no more and so prayed on the crosse for an end thereof and foresaw so much in the Garden which made him earnest if it were possible to decline it What can be sayd against this sharpenesse and bitternesse of bodily paine since in all Martyrs and malefactours their deaths declare that paine in the end doth so preuaile that the rage thereof is vtterly intolerable to mans nature and therefore sundereth the soule from the body with extreme violence as exceeding all humanâ⦠patience and strength g Defenc. pag. 118. li. 34. My other words also which here you cruelly condemne shall stand well enough that Christ as touching the vehemencie of paine was as sharpely touched as the reprobates themselues yea if it may be more extraordinarily though you labour with might and maine to make them amount to heresie and open blasphemie My words were more moderate then your dangerous comparisons deserued h Conclus pa. 290. li 35. I prayed you in so waightie matters as might amount to heresie and open blasphemie not to play with generall termes such as you neither vnderstood your selfe nor any man else could conceiue your meaning You would needs tell vs that Christ in soule was as sharpely touched and with as great vehemencie of paine euen as the reprobates themselues and more if it might be I asked you not where you found this written in the word of God which is the rule of our faith an vnwritten creââ¦de must needs haue vnwritten conclusions nor how you prooued it for your owne will is your best warrant for your new faith but what you ment thereby The terrors of the reprobates in this life which we might collect by the Scriptures were i Ibid. pa. 291. remorse of sinne reiection from Gods fauour desperation of mercie here and of all ioy and blisle in the world to come and a dreadfull expectation of horrible confusion and euerlasting fire k Ibidem I thought you durst not I hoped you would not offer so much as the mention of the least of these to be found in the sonne of God What wrong did I here vnto you were it not with too much sparing you and how plainly did I prouoke you to expresse your selfe but that your cunning is such that then you did and yet you doe forbeare to vnfold your generall and ambiguous speaches You persist still in your old song and say that touching the vehemencie of paine this is true As though remorse reiection desperation and expectation of euerlasting confusion and fire were NO PAINES to the soules of the reprobates Why play you with the name of paine to and fro after this sort Why role you sometimes to feares sometime to sorrowes sometime to paines as the causes of Christs agonie and those sometime apprehended by the mind of Christ sometime really inflicted by Gods immediate hand what Christ did or might apprehend you neuer declare you thinke it enough to tell vs his l Defenc. pag. 52. li. 35. vnderstanding chiefly conceiued the furie of that hand which principally strooke those blowes vpon his humane nature and thus with Metaphors you delude vs when you should distinctly deliuer what Christ conceiued of those afflictions which he suffered from the counsell and power of God determining them for mans redemption Yea besides apprehension and conception of mind you bring in your hell paines at your pleasure as an inherent and absolute torment really inflicted on the soule of Christ by Gods immediate hand as it is on all the damned after this life for the vengeance of their sinnes and when you are asked the proofe of these things you affourd vs figures and phrases to stuffe out your wallet m Defenc. pag. 119. li. 1. Why doe you not bend your odious outcries and accusations against the authoritie before truely cited which maintaineth the same so fully and amply as I deliuer it The Catechisme hath some generall words that Christ conflicted with all the powers of hell not as suffering them but as resisting them and that he endured horrible feares and griefes of mind to satisfie the iudgement of God and to pacifie his wrath These words if you will stretch to what please you they may seeme to haue some seedes of your error though not the buds and branches thereof but as they be generall so if we reuoke them to the grounds of the sacred Scriptures which was no doubt the writers and the allowers meaning then may we extend them no farder then we haue warrant in the word of God to iustifie them The feares and horrors which you would conuert to the reall suffering of the temporall hell the Catechisme referreth to the feare and horror of euerlasting death which you confesse Christ n Defenc pag. 99. most perfectly knew concerned him not at all and by no meanes could euer possibly come neere him How then doe you concurre with the authoritie which you cite saue that you peruert some generall words there
man compassed with sinne is able to see He saw posteriora Dei the backe parts of God for so God sayd vnto him y Exo. 33. v. 22 I will couer thee with mine hand whiles I passe by z 23. After I will take away mine hand and thou shalt see mine hinder parts but my face shalt thou not see Whereupon S. Austen sayth very aduisedly a August de Symbolo aâ⦠Catethââ¦menos li ãâã ca. 3. Ipsa sunt illa posteriora Dei Christus Dei Those hinder parts of God were the Christ of God Which exposition Christ confirmeth when he sayth b Iohn 8. Your Father Abraham reioyced to see my day and he saw it and was glad Other shewes of Gods glorie some others had as Elias in the Caue the People in the Wildernesse Salomon in his Temple and Iohn Baptist in Iordan when he saw the Holy Ghost descend like a Doue and abide on Christ but none of those was the sight of Gods face which no mortall man can see and liue And that is the true and essentiall ioy of heauââ¦n to which all other degrees of perfection and happinesse are consequent c August dâ⦠ciuitate Dei li. 16. ââ¦a 9. Videns Deum quod erit in sine praemium omnium sanctorum The sight of God sayth Austen shall in the end be the reward of all his saints Which doctrine he learned from S. Paul and S. Iohn the Apostles of Christ and they from their Master d 1. Cor. 13. Then we shall see him face to face and then shall I know sayth S. Paul euen as I am knowen When Christ shall appeare sayth S. Iohn e 1. Iohn 3. we shall be like to him for we shall see him as he is And so our Sauiour f Iohn 14. I will loue him that loueth me and shew mine owne selfe vnto him g Defenâ⦠ãâã 120. li. 15. Secondly it is true the Apostle sayth that here we walke by faith and liue by hope yet some rare exceptions do not ouerthrow this generall course The Scriptures are true with you saue where you list to make exceptions of your doctrine as not conteined in them nor agreeing with them No man in this life Christ Iesus only excepted had euer any such vision of God or possession and fruition of his heauenly kingdome that he did not walke by faith and liue by hope Paul was h 2. Cor. 12. taken vp into the third heauen and heard words not lawfull or not possible for man to vtter Did he then cease to walke by faith who after and alwayes prosessed of himselfe i 1 Cor. 13. Now I know in part but then I shall know as I am knowen And including himselfe with the rest k 2. Coâ⦠5. We walke by faith not by sight And ââ¦xactly speaking of himselfe l Galat. â⦠That I now liue in the flââ¦sh I liue by the fââ¦ith of the Sonne of God m Phil. 3. that I may know him and the vertue of his resurrection and fellowship of his afflictions not as though I had alreadie attained to it but I endeuour my selfe to that which is before and follow hard towards the marke for the price of the high calling of God in Iesus Christ. If you dare defend that Paul in Paradise did see God face to face then may you say that at that time he walked not by faith but by sight but if that be a plaine errour then Paul as yet attained not the sight of Gods face nor the crowne of righteousnesse layed vp for him which should be giuen him by the iust Iudge at that day and consequently neither faith nor hope ceased in Paul notwithstanding his being in the third heauen The like I say of S. Iohn who n Reuââ¦l 4. saw a dore open in heauen and was willed to come vp thither and of all the Saints that either talked with God or had any manifest reuelation of his glory whiles here they liued The transfiguring of Christ in the mount was to him not only a ioyfull hope but a reall taste of his very heaueââ¦ly ioyes That transfiguration of Christ whether it were for himselfe or for the confirmation of his Disciples the Scriptures doe not precisely determine When a voice came from heauen to Christ in the audience of all the people Christ answered This voice came not because of me but for your sakes S. Peter who was one of those Disciples that saw him transfigured writeth thus of it o 2. Pet. 1. We followed not deceiuable fables but with our eyes we saw his Maiestie for he receiued of God the Father honour and glory when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory This is my beloued Sonne in whom I am well pleased This voice which was greater glory than his transfiguration came in respect of them to confirme them in their faith and obedience to the Sonne of God then incarnate and yet to assure their eyes by sight as well as their ââ¦ares by that voice he was transfigured before them but this transfiguration did not frââ¦e Christ from feare sorrow shame violence and death which followed and therefore this was not heauen to him nor all the glory prepared for him but an outward shew thereof to establish rather his Disciples then himselfe For his soule within him had here on earth greater glorie continually then a transitorie change of his body as namely the personall vnion with God which no creature man nor Angell in earth or heauen had or hath besides him the fulnesse of Gods spirit resting on him by which he knew all the counsell and will of God and all the secrets of mens hearts power ouer all flesh and command ouer all creatures which neither Saint nor Angell in heauen hath In the glory of his body Moses and Steuen did here on earth in part communicate with him P 2. Cor. 3. Moses face did shine when he knew it not The children of Israel could not behold the face of Moses for the glorie of his countenance which so glittered that the children of Israel were afrayd to come neere him he forced to put a vaile vpon his face when they spake with him and yet Moses q Exod. 34. ver 29. wist not that the skin of his face shone bright And likewise r Acts 6. all that sate in the councell where Steuen was conuented condemned looking stedfastly on him saw his face as the face of an Angell that is bright and glorious though Steuen knew it not no more than Moses for ought that the Scripture noteth of him saue that in the end Steuen s Acts 7. looking stedfastly into heauen saw the glory of God and Iesus standing at the right hand of God But the inward and continuall glorie of Christes soule heere on earth was proper to him no man nor angell matching him therein How come you then to attribute heauen vnto Christ for the
world the death of the bodie that hence both body and soule might be haled to hell though first the soule and after the bodie when at the last day it shall rise from the corruption of the graue to euerlasting destruction To thinke that Christ submitted himselfe to all these sorts of death corporall spirituall and eternall is most hellish blasphemie for so he should not haue redeemed vs but destroyed himselfe bodie and soule foreuer To say that Christ deliuered vs not from all these lincks of death from spirituall death whiles here we liue from eternall death after this life and at the generall resurrection from the power of the graue where our bodies rot in the meane time is heathenish impietie and heresie denying the whole force and fruit of our redemption by Christ. Since then he cleered vs from all and yet suffered not all sorts of death it is manifest which is the Apostles meaning in the wordes by you cited that by one kind of death which in Christ was corporall he freed vs from all power of death heere and heereafter in bodie and soule not preseruing our bodies that they should not turne to dust but restoring them after death which is the farre more marueilous and mightie worke of God And this is euery where so plainly witnessed in the Scriptures and plentifully confessed by the learned and auncient fathers that none but he that is blinder then a bat would professe he seeth no such thing Christ g Matth 20. gaue his life a ransome for many and h Coloss. 2. by the bloud of his crosse pacified things in heauen and in earth i Hebr. 9. By the sacrifice of his bodie once made we are sanctified and k 1. Peter 1. healed by his stripes who bare our sinnes in his bodie on the tree If then the bloud of Christ clense vs from all sinne by which the diuell and death had power ouer vs It is most certaine that Christ abolished sinne and Satan by suffering his bloud to be shed vnto death for the remission of sinnes raising himself that is the Temple of his bodie from death into a glorious and blessed life by which the power and kingdome of Satan were vtterly ouerthrowen l Defenc. pag. 137. li. 15. Against this you haue no reason at all but wordes and wrestings and vaine oftentation of Fathers none of them all denying our sense The reason of all reasons is against it which is that no man nor Angell may adde or alter any thing in the Christian faith without the sure warrant of the sacred Scriptures m Rom. 10. Faith is by hearing and hearing by the word of God It is reason enough for me and for all ââ¦he faithfull that there is no such thing deliuered in the word of God You talke of words and wrestings as knowing them best and vsing them most and herein I am content to stand to the iudgement of the wise and indifferent Reader whether you haue brought ought yet for the death of Christes soule or his suffering the second death but your owne speaches and surmises abusing the wordes of the holy Ghost to your owne fansies without either cause or colour And touching the vaine ostentation of Fathers who as you vaunt deny not your sense I brought ancient learned writers not ignorant of the Christian faith as being the pillars of their times that with great perspicuitie and vehemence denied as I doe the death of Christs soule and affirmed with me the death which Christ suffered in the body of his flesh to be a most sufficient ransome for the sinnes of the whole world Augustins words were n August epist. 99. The same flesh in which only Christ died rose againe by the quickning of the spirit For that Christ was dead in soule that is in his humane spirit who dare ãâã since the death of the soule in this life is none else but sinne from which he was altogether free This you say denieth not your sense and why because you auouch the death of Christs soule which Austen asketh who dare auouch to say that Christ suffered the death of the soule is with Austen an impudent and wicked presumption and no part of the Christian faith or of mans redemption Austen by the death of the soule ment sinne you will say which you meane not You say by your leaue that Christ o Trea. pa. 42. li. 20. became defiled and hatefull to God by our sinnes And so if pollution of sinne be the death of the soule that kind of death you ascribe to Christ though not for his owne sinnes yet for ours then made his no lesse by guilt then by punishment as you teach directly against the assertion of Saint Austen who saith p August contra Faââ¦stum li. 14. ca. 4. Christ tooke our punishment without our guilt that thereby he might release our guilt and end our punishment But you vnderstand not Austen when he saith there is no death of the soule here but sinne he doth not thence exclude the consequents and adherents to sinne in this life but noteth that onely sinne doth kill the soule because it doth separate vs from God who is the life of the soule and the light and grace of God departing from the soule by sinne the soule dieth that is looseth all her sense of God and motion to God by which she liueth vnto God This with Austen and this indeede by the word of God is the death of the soule which if you attribute to Christ you incurre open and exquisite infidelitie For your meaning therefore it maketh no great matter if you will offer to correct our Creede you must speake as the Scriptures speake and not deliuer ââ¦s your priuate dreames for the publike doctrine of Christs Church With like neglect you skip the rest auouched by Saint Austen that Christ died onely in his flesh which rose againe by the quickning of the spirit Wherein least you should vse your accustomed euasion that the flesh of Christ compriseth as well his soule as his bodie Saint Austen hath wisely preuented you in saying the same flesh onely died Which rose againe Where if your learning serue you to say that Christes soule rose againe the third day you shall make vs a new resurrection of soules after this life as the Scripture doth of bodies which were a meete deuice for such a diuine as you are How beit Saint Austen naming Christs soule a part from his flesh and affirming of Christs soule that no man in his right wits dare auouch Christs soule died but onely that flesh which rose againe it is as cleere as mans speech may be that he vtterly refuseth the death of Christs soule as an irreligious and vnchristian position and directly teacheth this as a ground confessed in Christian religion that Christ died in his bodie alone which rose againe the third day and not in his soule which no Christian man durst auouch was euer dead Of
according to Austins meaning who herein ioineth with the Scriptures Christ then lyââ¦ing in soule with perfect obedience and patience and assuredly knowing God to be his God his Father complaineth that he was left or forsaken that is either not deliuered from his troubles afflictions but left in sinners hands to do their pleasure with him or deuested of his power and left through weaknesse vnto death which should for a season seuer his soule from his bodie or lastly lest in this shame of the crosse anguish of body without any open or sensible shew or signe of Gods fauour towards him or care for him All these kindes of forsaking the learned and ancient Fathers acknowledge in Christ on the crosse and other forsaking of the soule they admit none howsoeuer you falsly pretend their full agreement Come now to your conclusion if you could euince that Christes soule was vtterly forsaken of God and depriued of life which you can neuer and to offer it will conuince you of hainous and wilfull heresie and blasphemie yet can you conclude no more but the death of the soule in this life which is either ignorance or contempt of God Hell paines you cannot inferre nor the torments of the damned which are the second death and so your great flourish out of Austen for the death of Christes soule is but a ââ¦aw And the Reader may see with what vnderstanding and conscience you read and alleage the Fathers that where you acknowledge e Defenc. pag. 142. li. 12. they doe denie this phrase generally that Christ died in soule yet you boldly and lewdly affirme the next line before they f li. 11. grant the thing in effect as if they denied that in wordes which indeed they knew to be a part of the Christian faith and were like you who shift and lie for life to support your owne Deuices But in all these shewes of yours the aduised Reader shall finde nothing but a carelesse and senselesse resolution to saie anie thing rather then to admit a trueth or to relent from the least of your conceits whereof he may haue a full proofe in your words next following g Defenc pag. 142. li. 16. Let this be the answer touching all your Fathers and Councels which you bring abundantly heere and there about this point of the soules death A short answer indeede if it had either trueth or sense in it It is right a colts tricke when he will not or can not endure the loade to cast the whole packe off at once That they generally deny the death of Christes soule you grant and with a brazen face and barren head you adde they meane otherwise they deny not the thing but onely the phrase What is this but to suppâ⦠vp the trueth with a sadde countenance and to belch foorth your shame with open mouth had you examined their places your shifts sleights and vntrueths would haue loaden a carrect you haue better now prouided for your selfe with belying them all at once you haue incurred but one inconuenience But like is your Defence to your cause it entred first with aduantage of phrases and so it will end with a wind-mill of wordes Well that the Christian Reader may perceaue how auncient and vniuersally consented and confirmed by the church of Christ this truth hath beene which I teach that Christ died no death for our redemption but the death of the body onely to those Fathers which you say are abundantly brought by me already I will adde others that though there be no care nor conscience in you yet all men in whom there is any sense may see your deuice of the death of Christes soule and of hell paines and the most vehement torments of the damned suffered by him to be not onely a falsitie repugnant to the Scriptures but a noueltie against the maine consent and confession of all antiquitie If their testimonies be long and many thou wilt bââ¦are with me Christian Reader I hope the expence of a little paper to me or paine to thee is not so deare as the cause it selfe both for thy direction and for my discharge First then thou shalt heare that Christ died in bodie alone which is my assertion and withall that Christ died not in soule which is their conceit contradicted by all the Fathers and in the end we will shortly view whether these Fathers crosse their new found redemption in words oâ⦠matter The places I thinke good to repeate in Latine or Grecke as much as shall need which otherwise I refraine of purpose to decrease the volume least it should be too great that the Reader should ncither distrust my translating nor make long search for the wordes themselues in ech Writer if happily he desire to see them Tertullian prouing the resurrection of our bodies by Christs example saith h Tertull. de Resurrect carmis ca. 48. Sine dubio si mortuum sisepultum audis secundum scripturas NON ALIAS QVAM IN CARNF aequâ⦠resuscitatum in carne conced ââ¦ipsum enim quod ââ¦idit in mortem quod iacuit iââ¦sepulchro hoc resurrexit non tam Christus in carne quà m caro Christi Without Christ died no death of the soule by the iudgement of all the Fathers question if thou heare that CHRIST DIED that he was buried according to the Scriptures NONE OTHERWISE THEN in the flesh thou wilt grant that he was likewise raised in the flesh For that very thing which fell by death which lay in the graue that surely rose not so much Christ in the flesh as the flesh of Christ. And in the same place Dominus i Ibidem quanquam animam circumferret trepidantem vsque ad mortem sed non cadentem PER MORTEM The Lord though he caried about a soule fearing vnto death YET NOT FALLING BY DEATH Origen k Origen li. 5. in ca. 5. epist. ad Romanos By sinne saith Paul came death that death no doubt whereof the Prophet saith the soule that sinneth the same shall die whereof a man may iustly call this bodily death a shadow For whither soeuer that pierceth of force this followeth as a shadow doth the bodie If a man obiect that our Sauiour did no sinne neither was there in him the death of the soule by reason of any sinne and yet he sustained a corporall death we will answere him that where Christ owed this death to none nor was obnoxious to it yet for ââ¦ur saluation of his owne accord and by no necessitie he vndertooke this so aboue called shadow of death l Ibidem This common death then he did vndergoe but that death of sinne which raigned ouer all others he did not admit Athanasius m Athanas. contra Arianos oratione 3. ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã What els was that which was crucified but the bodie of Christ And againe Christs n Ibidem resurrection could not be without death ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã And how could
be principles of the Christian faith and that in so euident and pertinent manner that I know not how to lighten or strengthen their wordes Thou hearest them with one voice affirme that Christ died not A DOVBLE but A SINGLE death for vs which they likewise aââ¦ch was the death of HIS BODY ONLY AND NOT OF HIS SOVLâ⦠and THâ⦠DEATH OF THE SOVLE HE DIED NOT. The death of the soule they truely deriue from the Scriptures to be either sinne or damnation sinne by which men are depriued of all grace and so of the life of God and damnation which is a perpetuall reiection from all blisse addicting the wicked to eternall and intollerable miserie in the torments of hell fire Which of these things will this dreamer denie will he say that Christ died moe deaths then ONE and as well the death of the soule as of the bodie So he must say if he will vphold his new redemption by the death of Christs soule and so he doth say but whether there in he crosse not the full consent of Christs whole Church I leaue it to thy censure Will he shift as hee hath hitherto done with the name of flesh that it compriseth as well the soule as the bodie and therefore by the death of Christs flesh onely the Fathers doe not exclude the death of Christs soule but the death of his Godhead they prooue indeed against the Arians that the Sonne of God could not die in his Diuine nature but onely in his humane flesh And this as we now see is one of their maine reasons The soule of Christ died not nor coulde die much lesse then his Godhead And therefore the most of them do expresse that argument vtterly denying that Christes soule died any kinde of death but onely his flesh Besides a number of them not onely expresââ¦e by circumstances and consequents of burying and rising againe what the rest meane by the flesh but they vse the word ãâã which can not be taken for the soule and with like zeale and truth auouch that Christ died in his body onely So that these three stand for cleere and sounde conclusions with all these Fathers First that Christ died BVT ONE KIND of death Secondly that HE DIED ONELY IN HIS FLESH OR BODY and thirdly that THE DEATH OF THE SOVLE HE NEITHER DID NOR COVLD DIE. Will hee shuââ¦e with the name of death and say they ment not his kind of death that will nothing relieue him For first if Christ died but one kinde of death and of his bodily death no Christian may so much as doubt then by maine consequent out of their wordes Christ died no death of the soule let him take it how and which way he will Againe if Christ DIED ONELY IN BODY as they likewise witnesse then apparantly he died not any death of the soule neither in your sense Sir Defenser nor in theirs Lastly what death of the soule can you shew mentioned in the Scriptures without the compasse of their diuision that is which is not sinne or damnation Of sinne the Apostles wordes are plaine p Rom. 7. Sinne seduced me and slew ãâã ãâã ãâã and I died as likewise that q ââ¦hes 2. q Coloss. 2. we were dead in our sinnes This death men liââ¦ing may die as the Apostle saith of wanton widowes r â⦠Tim. 5. lyuing she is dead and of all the Gentils s ââ¦phes 4. walking in the vanitie of their minde they are strangers from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them because of the hardnesse of their heart who being past feeling haue giuen themselues to worke all vncleanesse euen with greedinesse Where the hardnesse of mans heart voide of all feeling or ãâã of God and so running on in all wickednesse is by the Apostle defined to be the death of the soule which is a depriuing or ââ¦anging from the life of God The second death as I before haue shewed is the laââ¦e burning with fire and brimstone into which the diuell and all the wicked shall be cast Shew now a third death of the soule not in your extraordinarie fansie and folly but in the word of God to which these Fathers proportion their speeches If there be no such thing there then directly earnestly and truely do these Fathers auouch that Christ dââ¦ed no death of the soule Of Fathers it may be your Mastership maketh small account and will not sticke in the high perswasion of your great and deepe learning to reiect them all as ignorant of the principles of their faith and so fitter to be taught then to teach but that proud peeuishnesse to giue it no worse words I leaue to the sober to censure for an vpshot the Reader shall haue a cleere conclusion out of the sacred Scriptures that the soule of Christ neuer was nor could be dead and consequently that these learned and ancient Fathers deliuered sound and true doctrine touching the soule of Christ and The soule of Christ liuing by graââ¦e could no way be dead fully build their asââ¦ertions on the maine foundations of the Diuine Scriptures It is euident by nature sense and trueth that priuatiues can not concurre at one and the same time in one and the same subiect For the one expelleth the other and so can not be found both together Yea since the one of them cleerely remooueth the other they can no more stand together then may contradiction For that which liueth is not dead and that which is dead liueth not I meane alwaies the same time and the same part But the soule of Christ by the manifest and manifold testimonies of holie Scripture did alwaies liue in the fulnesse of faith of hope of loue of grace of trueth of spirit It is euident therefore that the soule of Christ neuer died nor could die Which of these assertions will you encounter that Christes soule may be aliue and dead both at one time You would seeme the leafe before to shunne the shame of t Defenc. pag. 140. li. 25. this absurditie that Christes soule died and died not will you now come plainely and grossely to it by auouching that Christes soule was at one and the same time LIVING AND NOT LIVING DEAD AND NOT DEAD that is both ALIVE AND DEAD If you doe there is no man in England that hath either eies or eares to see or heare but he will reprooue you for a manifest beliar of his sense as well as of Christs soule Will you smoothly set yourselfe to one side and say that Christs soule was not aliue so many parts of life as I haue named in the soule of Christ so many pregnant proofes are there in holy Scripture that Christes soule was not onely liuing but as full of life as of grace during the whole time of his passion Neither is there any one of those things named by mee concerning the life of Christes soule which you can take from Christ without apparent blasphemie For if
God Esay saith p Esa. 53. v. 4. We did iudge him as plagued and smitten of God but he was wounded for our transgressions And S. Marke when the Iewes had crucified Christ amidst two theeues saith q Mark 15. vers 28. Thus the Scripture was fulsilled which saith he was counted among the wicked Thereby noting their errour not Christs desert Besides it is somewhat saucily said that Christ was accounted wicked in the righteous iudgement of God not by the malitious error of the Iewes Such pleasure you take against both Scriptures and Fathers to auouch what you list yea though it draw with it an iniurious slander to the sonne of God The words of the Prophet he t vers 9. made his graue with the wicked compared with those that solow though he did no wickednesse clearely conuince that Christ was an innocent though he were counted and vsed with malefactours and that the Prophet neuer ment to correct Gods iudgement as corrupt but to shew the wisedome and goodnesse of God deliuering his Sonne to be esteemed and vsed as wicked by the wicked and not by himselfe Howbeit there is no necessity to referre these words to the person of God the Father but they more fittely expresse the humility of Christ himselfe who made his graue that is was content to die in the midst of two Theeues and to be buried as they were considering the coherence with the words precedent which out of all question must be vnderstood of Christ himselfe For thus they stand s vers 8. He was cut out of the land of the liuing he was plagued for the transgression of my people t vers 9. He made his graue with the wicked Where no reason forceth any change of persons and so the same person of Christ who was cut from the land of the liuing made his graue with the wicked u Defenc. pag. 143. li. 11. But chiefly considering withall that also before he made his soule a sinne offering Therefore you must needs graunt that Gods word maketh Christs soule to be sacrificed for our sinne And we desire no other death of the soule It is maruaile you doe not out of this place inferre that Christs soule was made sinne for the words are when he shall make his soule sinne But an offering for sinne is the vsuall signification of that word in the Scriptures and therefore you did well in confessing so much to saue me that labour Christ then made his soule an offering for sinne what deduce you out of those words we desire no other death of the soule In faith you be a sillie sacrificer that know not a dead soule A dead soule is no sacrifice for sinne to be no sacrifice for sinne A dead soule is void of all things which should please God and so can be no sacrifice accepted for sinne x Psal. 51. A troubled spirit sorrowing for sinne is a sacrifice to God saith Dauid But doth repentance kill or quicken the soule God y Acts 11. giueth repentance vnto life that is he raiseth the soule first dead in sinne by repentance vnto life z 2. Cor 7. Worldly sorrow causeth death but Godly sorrow causeth repentance vnto saluation Now saluation is not the death but life of the soule a Hebr. 11. Without faith it is impossible to please God And the sacrifice that shall abolish sinne must needs please God It must then not want faith by which the righteous liue Wherefore by your leaue I make the cleane contrarie conclusion out of those wordes The soule of Christ was a sacrifice for sinne but a dead soule is no sacrfice for sinne the soule of Christ therefore was not dead Without death you will say there is no redemption for sinne Without bloud which noteth the death of the bodie there is no redemption for sinne but the soule I trust hath no bloud to be shed And so much the bodies of beasts offered did prefigure I meane the death of the bodie but not of the soule Willing obedience constant patience and assured confidence in the soule of Christ submitting it selfe to the counsell and will of his Father was the spirituall and inward sacrifice which Christ ioyned with the externall and bloudie sacrifice of his bodie For hauing two parts as all men haââ¦e a soule and a bodie neither part might be withdrawen from this sacrifice but his bodie must be yeelded vnto death and his soule must yeeld her selfe pure vndefiled and void of all spot yet feeling and enduring withall meekenesse and humblenesse of heart the paine of death separating her from her bodie And graunt the soule were heere taken for life what so great improper or vnused speach is that since the soule is truely and properly the life of the body b Defenc. pag. 143. li. 16. We denie not but this phrase Animam ponere is to lay downe the life and in diuers placââ¦s signifieth no more then simply to die both concerning Christ and other men yet this is no necessarie reason that heere in I say the soule should be taken figuratiuely for the life onely the rather seeing heere the text precisely setteth downe the great worke of our redemption and to take it as we doe literally impugneth no ground at all of faith or charitie The words to lay downe or power forth the soule import as you confesse not the death of the soule but the death of the bodie And since in the words of Esai Christ powred forth his soule vnto death there can by no learning bee more concluded out of that place but that Christ willingly layd downe his soule to depart from that bodie which is no way the death of the soule as you fansie but a plaine description of the death of Christs body And where for your pleasure you will take it litterally that is no proofe for the death of Christs soule because the word soule may bee properly taken when it is powred forth of the bodie by death but it noteth a willing submission to death where otherwise our soules are taken from vs or we loose them whether we will or no when we are left or put to death against our wils c Defenc. pag. 143. li. 27. Austen hath not a word against vs in that great place which you cite his whole argument being to an other purpose Austins wordes in that place be pregnant against you for all your dissembling d August in Iohannem tractat 47. Quid fecit passio quid fecit mors nisi corpus ab anima separauit What did Christs passion what did death but separate his bodie from his soule If the death and passion of Christ did nothing but separate Christs soule from his body then neither Christs death nor passion preuailed to the death of his soule And if his soule were not touched by death then was it neuer dead and so much Saint Austen witnesseth in the very same tractate e Ibidem Verbum non
worth but if they be diuers proofes of one thing though in place one before another they all haue one intention and must haue one construction Your maner is to make what you list of euery mans wordes my course is to shew by the wordes precedent and consequent that I take the right sense of each Writer not vpon the aduantage of one word wrested from the rest but out of the whole context to manifest the true meaning of ech mans speach If therfore Tertullian had said Haec mors est carnis animae this is the death of soule and flesh as he saith Haec vox est carnis animae this is the voice of soule and flesh It had been worth the obiecting and yet I must tell you that Tertullian being of opinion that the soule was traduced with the seed of the body when he diuideth a man into flesh soule and spirit as heere he doth by naming all three parts it may well be doubted whether he spake of the substance of the soule which is a spirit or of the powers of sense and speach which faile by death and are often comprised in the name of the soule But it is cleare by Tertullians owne words that Christs humane spirit was not dead or forsaken since he there vrgeth it was committed to the fathers hands and consequently was not forsaken nor left to death as the rest of Christs manhood was k Tertullianus aduersus Praxeam Caeterum non reliquit pater filium in cuius manibus filius spiritum suum posuit Denique posuit statim obijt spiritu enim manente in carne caro omnio mori non potest But the Father did not forsake the Sonne into whose hands the sonne laid downe his spirit For he laid it downe and presently died the spirit remaining in the flesh the flesh could not die at all The Father then left the flesh of his sonne vnto death but he tooke Christs spirit into his hands and so for the sonne to be forsaken was nothing els but for his flesh to be left to death This is Tertullians owne exposition of himselfe howsoeuer you would dally and deceaue both your selfe and your Reader by generall or speciall before or after l Defenc. pag. 145. li. 24. Cyrill also euen in that booke which you cite for you sheweth that he excludeth but Christs deity though he mention only his suffering in flesh Christ then is God impassible as God passible according to the flââ¦sh You put a whole But to Cyrills sense more then you find in his text and yet the words passible and impassible are not the things we striue for Impassible is that which by no possibility can admit any mutation or alteration by force or affection which is proper to God alone So no part of Christs manhood was impassible But though his soule were passible with diuers affections and impressions how will it follow from these or any other words in Cyrill that Christs soule died Cyrill hath in many words shewed which I before haue cited that Christs soule was subiect to all humane and naturall passions or affections but without sinne or corruption in this sense what doth it helpe you to haue the soule of Christ passible by nature and not impassible as his godhead is but you loue to loyter that thus still repeat one lesson not only besides your booke but against your booke m Defenc. pag 145. li 30. In a word so doe all the rest as before is partly noted A totall summe is as soone made of lies as of trueths All the answer you giue is they spake against other Hereticks not against you but this is the danger that if such points as they prooue against other Hereticks make against you you had need beware of the coniunction and communion between you and other Hereticks Against n li. 31. Nestorius they affirme you say the vnion of Christs natures Why skippe you o Sermo fo 331. Athanasius Epiphanius Ambrose and Augustine that neuer heard of Nestorius who teach directly that Christs suffering of death mentioned in the Scriptures was the suffering thereof in his mortall bodie which died and rose againe and by the death of this body was the ransome for vs all payd p Ambros. in Lucâ⦠ca 4. de ductu Christi in desertum What pray saith Ambrose could there be for death and Satan but his bodie You say his soule q August in Psal. 148. Accepit ex te vnde moreretur pro te Non posset mori nisi card Non posset mori nisi mortale corpus Christ tooke of thee sayth Austen wherein he might die for thee There could die in him nothing but flesh There could die in him nothing but his mortall bodie These and many such places yon cleanly skippe and tell in a word they are all for you r li. 32. They preserue the properties of ech They therefore holde not his only bodily sufferings Nay they therefore holde not the death of Christes soule since that is no necessarie propertie of mans nature assumed by Christ. Their reasons likewise and expositions of the Scriptures which you peruert exclude your conceit of the death of Christes soule most apparently ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã The Deitie could not suffer death say they because it was no bodie Then onely the bodie could suffer that death which Christ died And since the soule is no bodie that also must be free froÌ the death which Christ died These positions likewise of the Christian faith that the Son of God was wounded crucified dead and rose againe for vs all they expound to be expresly meant of his bodie wounded crucified dead and raised the third day so that where you would cauill that the name of Christes flesh importeth his soule as well as his body they directly refell you and pronounce all these things to be verified of his body and not of his soule or deity since nothing in him could suffer death but his body And the Scriptures that Christ by the grace of God tasted death for all and by death conquered him that had power ouer death and such like they exactly referre to the death of his body which argueth all your doctrine of the death of Christs soule to be meerely superfluous if not wholy pernicious f Defenc. pag. 145. li. 33. Is this then your great boast of all the Fathers and councels nay are they well vsed at your hands to be thus drawen clean from their purpose to an opinion which they neuer thought of is this good dealing towards Gods people to tell them that the Fathers generally teach the only bodily sufferings of Christ and denie our assertion of his soules peculiar suffering which they iustifie and conââ¦irme indeed Intrueth good Reader if I were not too well acquainted with this mans vnshamefastnesse I should thinke I rather heard a plaier on the stage then a Pen-man in the Church Is it possible for a
others that beleeue the words of Paul are sufficient declaring this to be the very ground of the Gospell which hee receiued and deliuered that Christ e 1. Cor. 15. died for our sinnes according to the Scriptures and that he was buried and that hee arose the third day according to the Scriptures Whence by a full and faire coherence I collect that whatsoeuer died in Christ according to the Scriptures that was buried and raised the third day according to the Scriptures But it is more then manifest by the Scriptures that the soule of Christ was neither buried nor raised from death the third day but onely his bodie It is therefore as plaine to me by the all sufficient word of God that the soule of Christ died not for our sinnes according to the Scripture Your f Defenc. pag. 146. li 23. section touching materiall fire in hell I haue sifted at large before I shall not neede to say any more of it Your hemming in all the world on your side g Defenc pag. 147. li. 25. not some nor the most or best but euen all and euery one both Churches and writers in the world who are Protestants leauing none to vphold the doctrine which I deliuer but Papists Iesuites and Friars is as I told you before and must tell you againe an egregious lie so loud and leud that all the belles in London if they should iarre together could not yeeld a more offensiue sound That euery new writer speaketh of some feares sorrowes temptations or painefull sufferings in the soule of Christ neuer was nor is by me denied neither doe I in my Sermons take vpon me to determine what feares temptations paines and sorrowes Christ might and did suffer in his soule onely I added that we must beware we diminish not his faith hope loue confidence obedience patience and other gifts and graces of the spirit of God in the soule of Christ which the Scripture cleerely maketh to be without want defect or measure in him Shunning those sands I left euery man to his libertie to speake or write of Christes feares and sorrowes as farre as any circumstance of holy Scripture did duely enforce but the death of the soule the paines of hell and of the damned and the second death if any sought to fasten on the soule of Christ whosoeuer they were they did it by their owne surmises they had no warrant for any of those in the word of God except they tooke the paines of hell figuratiuely for great and intolerable such as sometimes the Godly in their humane weakenesse thinke and complaine they feele or feare though they come nothing neere the true paines of hell which cannot be endured in this mortall life and flesh by the euidence of nature and Scripture This being my constant course as my Sermons printed doe apparently witnesse what folly what madnesse is this so egerly and often to chalenge me for contradicting the whole world when it is but your immoderate greedinesse or giddinesse to thinke that everie man who writeth any thing of the feares or sufferings of Christs soule doth presently teach as you doe the death of Christs soule and the substance of the most vehement paines of the damned yea the second death to be a necessary part of our redemtion which Christ must suffer before he could ransome vs To censure mens priuate opinions I take no pleasure some men otherwise very learned and laborious haue dipped too deepe in that die as your selfe proue and pronounce by reiecting and reselling the horror of eâ⦠nâ⦠death in the soule of Christ though Master Caluin say Christ CONFLICTED therewith and the Catechisme auouch Christ was therewithall Pââ¦VSED If you may thus renounce and refute the first deuise and spredders as you thinke them of your proper and spirituall temptations and torments in the soule of Christ giue others leaue to receaue them no farder then they concurre with the Scriptures and with the primatiue church of God I find diuers men speake diuersly but very few and these late that light on the death of Christs soule and suddaine touches of the essentiall paines of the damned from the immediate hand of God which is your fresh and new deuice yea many that are caried away with the generall termes of Gods wrath and horror of his dreadfull iudgements against sin no way like the death of Christs soule and by speciall words debarre all mention of the second death in the sufferings of Christ and those as well English as others How false and soolish your vaunt is of all and euerie church and writer in the world that are Protestants to be of your minde will soone appeare to any that will reade and waigh the workes and wordes of Zuinglius Musculus Martyr Bullinger Aretius ãâã new ãâã teach the sufferings of Christs soule without the paines of hell Zanchius and of sundry others as sound in faith as ripe in iudgement as diligent in reading and sufficient in all kinde of learning as the best you can name either broching or bowing towards your late conceits who though they teach that Christ suffered in soule and body as I doe yet they assigne farre other sufferings in the soule of Christ then your essentiall paines of the damned I may not stand to make new discourses touching new writers a place or two shall serue for all and so an end of this matter Bullinger vpon those words of Esay Christ layd downe or made his soule a sacrifice sor sinne saith h ãâã in ãâã ãâã ââ¦3 To make his soule a sacrifice for sinne is to offer himselfe to be a sacrifice to Purge sinnes And he saith Christs soule and not his flesh not that the flesh of Christ was not offered for vs but that whole Christ body and soule offered himselfe to God and that willingly from his heart and of his owne accord and whole Christ was the expiation of our sinnes licet interim neque diuinit as sit passa neque anima mortua sed caro de quare beati Patres Vigilius Fulgentius contra Haereticos religiose disputarunt Though during that time neither his diuinty suffered NOR HIS SOVLE DIED but his flesh whereof the blessed fathers Vigilius and Fulgentius haue religiously discoursed against Heretickes Zanchius whose learned workes are to me in steed of many writers that are caried with faction and affection to vphold whatsoeuer some other men say though he could not for his often and great labours get time to finish his purposed treatise of mans redemption in that exact manner that he hath donne the rest yet commenting on S. Paules Epistles as occasion was offered he fully deliuereth the matter and manner of our redemption to be the only sacrifice of Christs body and bloud other propitiatory sacrifice for sinne then that he acknowledgeth none though he ascribe to the soule as well her sufferings as her sacrifice i Zanchius in ca. 2. epist. ad Philip. v. 8. All things
after openly proclaime That Dauid was not ascended into heauen If it be so firme a promise as you pretend then Dauid as well as the rest must locally accompanie Christ whithersoeuer he went and consequently ascend to heauen with him which Peter vtterly denieth And all the Fathers of Christs church had little vnderstanding of Christs words when they generally denied that the soules of the Saints are yet in the same place of glory where Christ is If you beleeââ¦e not my report of them peruse their owne words following Irenaeus It is manifest that the soules of Christs Disciples shall goe to an inuisible place appointed them of God and there shall remaine vntill the resurrection and after receauing their bodies and rising perfectly that is corporally as Christ did rise shall so come to the sight or vision of God Iustine the martyr The soules of the righteous are caried to Paradise where they inioy the company and sight of Angels and Archangels and the vision of Christ our Sauiour and are kept in places fitte for them till the day of resurrection and recompensation Tertullian It is apparent to any wise man that there is a place determined which is Abrahams bosome for the receauing of the soules of his sonnes That region I meane Abrahams bosome though not heauenly sublimiorem tamen inferis yet higher then the places below shall giue comfort to the soules of the righteous vntill the end of things with the fulnesse of reward bring the resurrection of all men Heauen is open to no man so long as the earth remaineth together with the passing away of the world shall the kingdom of heauen be opened Origen The Saints departing hence do not presently obtaine the full rewards of their labours but they expect vs though staying though slacking For they haue not perfect ioy so long as they grieue at our errors and lament our sins For these saith Paul haue not yet receaued the promise God prouiding for vs a better thing that they without vs should not be perfect Hilarie The day of iudgement is the repay of euerlasting happinesse or punishment But the time of death till then hath euery one vnder his lawes whiles either Abraham or torment reserue ech man vnto iudgement Ambrose Till the fulnesse of time come the soules departed expect their due reward for some paine for some glory is prouided Chrysostom Though the soule were a thousand times immortall as she is those admirable good things she shall not enioy without her flesh If the body rise not againe the soule remaineth vncrowned and without that heauenly blisse Augustine After this short life thou shalt not as yet be where the Saints shal be to whom it shal be said Come ye blessed of my Father receaue the Kingdome prepared for you from the beginning of the world thâ⦠shalt not as yet be there who knoweth it not but thou maiest be there where the poore Lazar was seene afarre of by the proud rich man In that rest shalt thou securely expect the day of iudgement when thou shalt receaue thy body and be changed to be equall to an Angel Theodoret The Saints haue not yet receaued their crownes For the God of all expecteth the conflicts of others that the race being ended he may together pronounce all that overcame to be conquerers and so reward them Oecumenius All the fore said Saints haue not yet receaued the good things promised to the iust God prouiding better for vs. Least they should haue more then we in that they were crowned before vs he hath therefore appointed one certaine time that we should be crowned with them Andreas Caesariensis It is the iudgement of many godly fathers that euery good man after this life hath a place ââ¦itte for him by which he may coniecture the glory prepared for him Theophylact. The Saints as yet haue attained nothing of the heauenly promises God hath appointed one time to crowne all Bernard you perceaue there are three states of the soule the first in this corruptible body the second without the body the third in perfect blessednesse The first in the Tabernacles the second in the Courts the third in the house of God Into that most happy house of God the soules of the Saints shall not enter without vs nor without their bodies Neither doe I find any Scriptures that allow the Saints deceased the same place of glory where Christ now is at the right hand of God in the highest heauens till the last day come What Abrahams bosome is whither Lazarus soule was caried by the Angels or where it is I dare not define Only the Scripture faith it was a place of comfort after death and vpvvards farre of from Hell a great gulfe being set betweene that and hell Of Paradise where Christ promised the penitent Thiefe should be with him the very day that he died I read what Paul writeth how he was taken vp into the third heauen and into Paradise Whence we may rightly collect that Paradise is in the third heauen Now what number of heauens the Scripture deliuereth is not so certaine as some men suppose We find the whole region of the aire to be called Heauen as where Christ nameth the byrds of heauen and the clouds of heauen Againe that place of the firmament where the Sunne the Moone and the starres are is called heauen Let there be lights said God in the firmament of heauen to separate the day from the night And I will multiply thy seed as the starres of heauen The third heauen if I be not deceaued the Scripture maketh to be the originall and proper habitation of Angels where they were first placed and whence they fell that are now called Diuels The Angels which kept not their originall saith Iude but left ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã THEIR PROPER HABITATION hath Godreserued in euer lasting chaines vnder darkenesse vnto the iudgement of the great day In this celestiall Paradise which at first was the proper mansion of Angels as the Scripture obserueth there was not only place for sinne and danger of falling as we find by experience of the reprobate angels but after this was left an higher degree of perfection and a greater increase of glory as we perceaue in the elect Angels who were confirmed in goodnesse and aduanced to the presence of Gods throne there to behold the face of God in the proper place of his sanctity and maiesty Of this third heauen the booke of Iob saith God found no stedfastnesse in his Saints yea the heauens are not cleane in his sight since there he found sinne in those transgressing Angels which left their proper habitation and pressed with pride and disobedience to the throne of God This fault and fall the Prophet resembleth when he saith How art thou fallen from heauen ô Lucifer Thou saidst in thine heart I will
vs though against the opinion of the Fathers that the soules of the holie Patriarks dead before Christ were not beneath but aboue Not in Limbo but with God in peace ioy and blisse euen in Paradise that is heauen Your certainties be your owne ouerhastie coniectures neither well vnderstanding your selfe nor others In the places which you quote out of my Sermons I say as Christ himselfe deliuered that the iust deceased were in Abrahams bosome which the wise man calleth the hand of God And that Abrahams bosome was vpward farre aboue hell as appeareth by the wordes of our Sauiour more I durst not determine Neither did I make Abrahams bosome to be Paradise or Heauen I had no warrant so to doe but the place whither the soule of the thiefe was caried the day of his death Christ calleth Paradise which the Apostle seemeth to make a part of the third heauen And heere were the soules of the righteous after Christes death except you thinke that Paradise was prouided only for the penitent thiefe which S. Austen counteth a great absurditie Thus much I said and still say as also that the faithfull departing this life rest from their labours and dwell with the Lord in places prepasred and appointed for them though as yet they haue not their house which is eternall in the heauens nor are clothed with life swallowing vp mortalitie But that the soules of the Patriarks were in heauen that is in the glorie of gods kingdome before the death and comming of Christ I haue no such wordes in any of the pages which you produce I vse not of things vnknowen to giue hastie iudgement I leaue it to God who hath many places of abode in his house and desire not to search into his secrets vnreuealed in this life Hence I conclude that Christes soule after his death ascended indeed and descended not downward beneath vs heere I heare your conclusion but I see no premises from which you may iustly inferre so much For though the soule of Christ might ascend after death if we respect situation of place in comparison of the earth yet because the Scriptures reckon no ascending but into the glorie of heauen otherwise the diuels that rule in the aire should ascend and the damned that come to iudgement shall ascend the Christian faith doth not say that Christ ascended before he descended And the apostle exactly obseruing the relation and application of those two wordes vnto Christ saith his descending was the first of the twaine that was performed This saith he that Christ ascended what is it but that he first descended into the lower parts of the earth Otherwise if you be disposed to play with the ascending and descending of Christes person bodie or soule before or after death you may finde vs many descents and ascents besides the two that are mentioned in our Creed The Nicene Creed saith of his person that for vs and our saluation he descended from heauen and was incarnate by the holy Ghost of the virgine Marie and of himselfe he saith I am the liuing bread which descended from heauen Then after his death his soule ascended as you say and so must descend againe before his body could be restored to life Now the apostle saith Christ descended into the lower parts of the earth and likewise must thence ascend before his resurrection And lastly after forty daies he ascended body and soule aboue all the heauens Heere are sixe descents and ascents if you list to controle the Creed but the Christian faith following the apostle noteth onely two his descending to hell or to the lower parts of the earth and his ascending aboue all heauens which were two materiall parts of our saluation after he tooke flesh and profitable for vs to know And though you stifly stand on this that Christes soule descended not downeward beneath vs heere Yet against the Creed and the apostles wordes that Christ descended to hell and to the lower parts of the earth no wise man will admit either your opinion or assertion howsoeuer you thinke you can make a florish with Dauids words who saith he was fashioned beneath in the earth of which we will speake when we come to examine the force of the apostles wordes Only except there be some speciall reason of good authoritie to the contrary which is the second point of importance heere to be considered Touching which thus I say without expresse and euident Scripture there is in the world no sound nor meet authoritie to disprooue our former reason or conclusion Your reasons raked out of the Scripture are such that no man need to regard they are miserable mistakings and palpable misapplyings of the Scriptures intending no such thing as you imagine and for the contrarie they are plaine enough and such as haue been receaued and reuerenced by all Christendom without exception till you and some others in our age started vp with figures and phrases to mince and manage the Scriptures to your pleasure They are ââ¦eely diuines that doe not know the names of heauon and hell of life and death of flesh and spââ¦it of Christ and of God may be diuersly taken and diuersly vsed euen by example of holy Scriptures but it is the high way to all heresie and infidelity to turne and wind euery word occurrent in the Scriptures after euery signification that may be found thereof in the old or new Testament without respect to the maine grounds of the Christian faith and to make Rabbins and Pagans to be the best interpreters of words vsed by the holy Ghost to expresse the mysteries of Christs kingdome And how come you now to be so strickt in this second question that without expresse and euident Scripture against which you cannot so much wrangle you will yeeld to nothing who were so licentious in the former that without all Scripture and against the Scripture you maintained a new kind of redemption by the death of Christs soule and his suââ¦ering the second death which if you stand to the word of God is eternall damnation of body and soule in hell fire you shew your selfe more then a Patriarke in the Church thus to coine new articles of the Creed without all warrant of the word and to cast out the old though confessed and continued since Christs time because you find some words to haue diuers senses at least with Iewish and heathen writers though not with Christians Austen himselfe auoucheth well and faithfully supposing there were no expresse nor plaine Scripture for Christes descending theâ⦠sayth he it were maruellous boldnesse that any should dare say he went downe to hell But the same Austen in the same place telleth you that euidentia testimonia infernum commemorant dolores euident testimones of Scriptures mention both hell and the sorowes thereof to which Christ came And for full proofe heereof he sayth euââ¦n in the same Epistle We can not contradict
soules of the dead are receaued to corruption or destruction so called for that they are neuer satisfied but alwaies expect more euer since man was adiudged to death for sin and though in the great conceit of your owne skill you tell me that my not considering or not caring for the vse and manner of the Hebrew tongue causeth my mistaking as in these places so likewise in all or most of the rest and causeth mine error in this maine question Yet I hope I shall let the Reader see in the end that proud ignorance leadeth you so rashly to resolue as you doe both of the words and places in question and likewise of my positions Mercerâ⦠a man of no meane skill in the hebrew tongue as appeareth by his paines therein taken in his additions to Pagnines Lexicon perused and published by Ceallere and Betrame two learned hebricians of our age obserueth that hoc nomine generaliter locasubterranea tendendo centrum versus appellantur the places vnder the earth euen to the middle or center thereof are generally called by this name Sheol as by another name of the same signification it is elswhere called Erets tachtith the lower or lowest earth Ezechiel 31 and often with an adiect sheôl tachtijah for explanations sake Proprie insernum dixeris ita vt locum significes Hinc cum verbo descendendi passiâ⦠iungitur Properly you may call it hell or the place below for which cause it is euery where ioined with a Verb of descending Forstere in his hebrew Dictionary repeating what others thought of the sense of the word Sheol as that some tooke it for the pit others for the graue some for death it selfe some for the state of the dead plurimi vero inferum id est locum damnatorum and the most tooke it for hell euen the very place of the damned addeth in the end I am of this opinion that I thinke it importeth in the Scripture most often the place where the dead are vnder the earth so called for that it cannot be satisfied as Lactantius in certaine verses of his seemeth to render that Etymologie of the word Inferus insatiabiliter caââ¦a guttura pandit Hell opcneth wide his vnsatiable throat Et aliter verti commodè non potest quà m nomine infernus and cannot be otherwise conueniently translated then by the name of Infernus hell or the places below Deuter. 32 A fire is kindled in my wrath and hath burned to the nethermost hell So doth Ezechiel vse another word of the same signification ca. 31. Thou shalt be cast downe erets tachtith to the lower earth Pagnine vnknowen to no man that is learned for his labours in the hebrew tongue saith Sheôl sepulchrum infernus Gehenna Sheol signifieth the graue hell Gehenna Munstere Sheolidem quod sepulchrum fonea infernus Sheol is as much as the graue the pit and hell Auenarius Sheol sepulchrum item infernus id est locus inferior sub terra St de impijs dicitur significat perditionem Sheol is the graue also hell that is the lower place vnder the earth When it is spoken of the wicked it signifieth perdition Lauater Sheol non tantum significat locum damnatoruÌ sed etiam foueââ¦m vel sepulchrum Sheol doth not only signisie the place of the damned but also the pit or graue And before them all Lyra well learned in the Hebrew tongue if not a Iew borne sayd Accipitur infernus in Scriptura dupliciter infernus which is the Latin translation of Sheôl is taken two waââ¦es in the Scripture one for the pit where the Carcasses of the dead are put the other for the place whither the soules of the damned descend The trueth of their iudgements that Sheol signifieth the places vnder the earth where the bodies and soules of the dead are receaued will appeare by the very confession of the Rabbins themselues as well as by the direction of the Scriptures Touching the situation of Sheol Rabbi Abraham saith Sheol mââ¦kom aamakhephec bashamaijm shehu marom Sheol is a deepe place opposed to heauen which is on hie And againe Sheol is the lowest place of the whole earth opposite to heauen Rabbi Leui. Sheol hi mattah bemuchalat vehi markez Sheol is absolutely below is the center of the earth And that with them it importeth hell I meane Gehenna the place appointed to torment the soules of the wicked there can be no question Rabbi Iehosuas the sonne of Leui deliuering the names of hel that are occurrent in the Scripture saith there be seuen names of Gehenna and these they are Sheol Abadon destruction Bor Shachath the pit of perdition Bor Sheon the lake of ruine or roaring Tith haiauen the bottom of the myre Zal-maueth the shadow of death Erets tachtith the lower earth In the exposition of the 11 Psalme there are repeated as places of abode for the wicked in Gehenna Sheol Abadon Erets tachtith Dauid Kimchi commenting on these wordes of the 9. Psalme sinners shall be turned to Sheol saith Vuederash lishola hu gehinnam and in derash Sheol is Gehenna Elias the Leuite in his Caldaie Lexicon sayth Veiesh Sheol Methurgemim gehinnam Sheol with the Translators or Interpreters is Gehenna The Caldaie paraphrase expressing those wordes of Dauid The shape or beautie of the wicked shall consume in Sheol but God will redeeme my soule from the hand of Sheol thus rendereth them Their bodies shall wax olde in Gehenna but the Lord will redeeme my soule from gehenna Rabbi Salomon likewise expoundeth Sheol in that place by Gehinnam So in the sixth Psalme it is sayd Whosoeuer is not circumcised iored Gehinnam goeth to Gehenna as Esay threateneth Sheôl hath enlarged it selfe Rabbi Moses Hadarsan vpon the first of Genesis Gehenna is sayd to be deepe as it is in the ninth of the Prouerbs In the deepe of sheôl are the ghests of an harlot The Hebrew glosse vpon those wordes of God vttered by Moses A fire is kindled in my wrath and shall burne to the nethermost Sheol sayth In my wrath that is in the midst of Gehenna as it afterward followeth and shall burne to the lowest sheôl Rabbi Ioden expounding the wordes of Dauid Thou hast deliuered my soule from the nethermost Sheol sayth The way of Adulterers leadeth to the deepe of hell and therefore he sayth Thou hast deliuered my soule from the nethermost sheôl With whom Rabbi Selomo concordeth The way of Adulterers is to be in the deepe of hell and thence hast thou delinered me sayd Dauid when Nathan sayd vnto me The Lord also hath taken away thy sinne And lest we should doubt what they meane by Gehinnam Elias the Leuite sayth Kareü Rabbothenu mekom ônesh hareshaim achar motham gehinnam Our Rabbins call the place of punishment for the wicked after their deaths Gehenna Neither want these Iewes that auouch Sheol
hades either for the place or state of the godly now deceased in Christ nor for the generall or common condition of both elect and reprobate since Christs resurrection but as we saw before in Iustine the martyr Chrysostome and Theodoret precisely for a place opposite to Paradise and heauen where the wicked after this life find the due wages of their sinnes which is eternall darââ¦knesse and death where the dwelling and dominion of Diuels is and whence the Saints dead and liuing from the beginning of the world to the end thereof weââ¦e and are redeemed and deliuered by Christ. Iosephus a Iew and yet a fauourââ¦r of Christian Religion as appeareth by his testimonie giuen of Christ and one that liued euen in the Apostles time as being a chiefe leader of the Iewes in the battaile against the Romans and taken by Veââ¦pasian to whom he foretold by the gift of pââ¦ophesie whiles Nero yet liued that he should be Emperour in his oration to dissuade them that would haue killed themselues and him before he should yeeld to the Romans Know you not saith he that such as goe out of this life by the law or course of nature and repââ¦y the debt which they rââ¦ceaued of God when he that gaue it is willing to receaue it haue immortall glory an house and ofspring setled and their soules cleansed and fauoured of God inhabit the holiest place of heauen and whose hands waxe mad against themselues ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã THEIR SOVLââ¦S HADES that is darke RECEIVETH Ignatius the third bishop of Antioch after the Apostles sayth of Christ ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã He descended alone to Hades Hell and threw downe the rampier that had stood from the beginning and brake vp the partition wall thereof which kept men from heauen To the state of the dead Christs soule did not descend alone the thiefs soule was with him neither had the rampier of bodily death continued vnbroken from the beginning since many before Christs suffering rose from the generall condition of the dead but hell it was to which he alone of all men that euer returned went and brake the strength and force thereof which till that time was vntouched Theophilus the sixt bishop of Antioch about 170 yeeres after Christ alleageth against Autolycus a maligner of Christian religion the verses of Sybilla to prooue that the Gentiles did sacrifice to diuels ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã You made sacrifices to diuels in hades Clemens Alexandrinus not long after labouring to proue that Peters words Christ preached to the spirits in prison pertained to the wicked not to the godly giueth this reason ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã who being well aduised will thinke the soules of the iust and of sinners to be in one condââ¦mnation Whence he concludeth that none heard Christs voice there but ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã such as were placed in hades and had yeelded themselues wââ¦ttingly to destruction And for proofe thereof alleageth these words as out of the Scripture ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã Hades sayd to destruction We saw not his shape but we heard his voice I cite not these places to approoue euery allegation or opinion that is occurrent but to shew in what sense the auncient Greeke writers that were Christians vsed the worde Hades not for the common condition and state of soules iust and vniust which Clemens heere disaââ¦oweth but for the place where the wicked were detained that wilfully wrought their owne destruction Eusebius speaking in the person of Christ saith ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã I see my descent to Hades approch and the rebellion against me of the contrarie powers that are enemies to God He saith Eusebius went thither ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã for the saluation of the soules that were in Hades and descended to breake the brasen gates ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã to dismis those that before were prisoners of hades And out of Plato he alleageth this for a trueth ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã that the soules of the wicked immediately after death departing hence endure the punishment in Hades of their doings heere Athanasius a man of no meane iudgement in whose confession or Creede allowed in the Booke of Common Prayer we finde it a part of the Christian faith that Christ descended to Hades declareth in infinite places what he meaneth by the word Hades After man had sinned saith he and was fallen by his fall death preuailed from Adam vntill Christ the earth was accursed ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã Hades was opened Paradise was closed Heauen was offended but after all things were deliuââ¦red to Christ the whole was reformed and persited the earth in steede of a curse was blessed paradise was opened ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã Hades shranke for feare the gates of heauen were left open He suffering for vs recouered vs and hungring refreshed vs ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã And descending to hades brought vs backe For if the Lord had not beene made man we had neuer risen from the dead as redeemed from our sinnes but had remained vnder the earth as dead neither had we euer beene lifted vp to heauen ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã but had lien in hades Againe he that examined mans disobedience and gaue iudgement inflicted a double punishment saying to that which was earthly Earth thou art and to earth shalt thou returne and to the soule Thou shalt die the death and so man was distracted into two parts and condemned to abide after death in two places If you can shew an other place whither man was condemned well may you say man was deuided into three parts and that being recouered out of two places he remaineth bound and chained in the third ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã but if you can shew none other place besidââ¦s the graue and hades hell out of which man was perfectly freed by Christ how say you then that God is not yet reconciled to man This appeareth not onely in vs but in the death of Christ the body comming to the graue ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã and the soule descending to Hades being places that are seuered with a great distance the graue receauing his body for there it was present and hades his spirit or soule els how did Christ present the shape of his owne soule to the soules detained in bandes ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã that hee might breake in sunder the bandes of the soules detained in hades So likewise speaking of Christes persuing the diuell by his life and death hee else where saith The diuell was fallen from heauen hee was cast from the earth hee was persued in the aire euery where conquered and euery where straightned ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã he determined to keepe Hades hell for this place was yet left him But the Lord a true Sauiour would not leane his worke vnfinished ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã nor leaue those that were in hades as yeelded
giue aduise we will send for you to make comments vpon their counsels Where you make Athanasius say Christ was held in this death till ââ¦e spoiled and conquered it which you conclude cannot be hell out of question You speake not one true word Athanasius hath no such words that Christ was held in death Of mans soule he saith ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã that was held in death but of Christ in that very sentence he auoucheth the cleane contrary saying ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã be could not be held in death Secondly that hades was spoiled of all his power right and claime to or ouer all Christs elect and we deliuered thence Athanasius as well as the rest beareth plentifull witnesse But that Christ spoiled heauen or Paradise where the soules of the Saints were seuered from their bodies brought vs thence is not onely a false fable but a pestilent error Christ raising his body from the graue by Athanasius iudgement gaue vs hope of the resurrection of our bodies and bringing backe his soule from hades as not onely vntouched of any death there but also loosing the bands ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã of soules surprised by hades he made vs partakers of his immortality which the strength of hades could not touch Descending to hades Christ brought vs backe saith Athanasius of himselfe and of all Christs members as then not borne Christ did not bring all the faithful of the old Testament from the condition of death much lesse brought he the rest thence that were not either dead or borne We die still and so the condition of death is common to vs after Christs resurrection as it was to the fathers before Christs death and birth but hell hath now no right to vs nor power ouer vs since Christ our head conquered and spoiled Satan of all interest and chalenge to any of his members And where you pretend that hades is spoiled because our soules shal be ioined againe to our bodies at the resurrection know you good Sir that the separation of the soule from the bodie was to dure by Gods ordinance but for a time as well in the wicked as in the godly that is vntil the generall iudgement And you that defend a resurrection and immortality as well of the wicked in hell as of the Saints in Paradise what reason can you giue why the condition of the soule separated from the body is more conquered by Christ for his members then by Satan for his partners for that separation shall cease in both and consequently the force of death seuering the soule from the body is spoiled aswell for the reprobate as for the elect Yea the continuing of the godly soules asunder from their ââ¦odies till the last day is rather a furnishing and storing of your hades then a conquering and spoiling of it And therefore mocke not with these matters they be of more importance then that they may be thus idlely caried Hilarie verily hath this meaning also saying this is the law of humane necessity that their bodies goe downe to the graue their soules to the world of the dead ad inferos Which descent the Lord did not refuse that he might prooue himselfe in euery point to be true man And this for his soule to come vnder the power of death was indeed the law of humane necessity after the like phrase as Iustine Irenaeus and Tertullian also speake but not to goe to hell Your head is so fraighted with falseshoods that trueth can take no place there and so little is your skill though your pride be great that you doe not know for ought that I see how necessity of death came into mans nature Whiles man was free from sinne he was free from death By sinne came death When man lost his innocencie he lost his liberty and fell both within the seruitude of sinne and necessity of death Now death being the wages of sinne reacheth aswell to the soule after this life as to the body to be depriued of this life By one offence came guiltinesse on all men vnto condemnation The law then of humane necessity for sinne without Christ Iesus in whom we recouer liberty is for the body to goe to corruption and for the soule to descend to destruction and not onely to be seuered from the body as you would faine mistake the words of Hilarie It is no part of humane necessity for the soule seuered from the body to ascend to heauen or to Paradise that is the honour and fauour of our Redemption purchased by Christ our Sauiour but necessity of death in vs which is the reward of sinne draweth the whole man body and soule vnto condemnation This you might haue found to be Hilaries meaning by the words precedent which occasioned this conclusion Si descendero in infernum ades If I goe downe to hell thou art there Which Hilarie sheweth to be verified in Christ by the words that you bring meaning that as men by sinne came to this necessitie that their bodies lying in the graue their soules descended to hell So Christ the redeemer of man refused not euen this descent to hell ad consummationem veri hominis to consummate true man or to recouer and restore both parts of man to witte body and soule whereof a true man consisteth That Christ should descend to places vnseene and vnknowen to prooue himselfe a true man what sense can this haue since no man liuing was present to see the proofe thereof and he that doubted whether Christ liuing were a true man would much more doubt whether Christ rising in that glorious bodie which neuer man saw before noâ⦠the like were a true man or no. I thinke therefore by your leaue that as Christ died not to prooue himselfe a true man but to ransome our sinnes so he descended to the places below not to make proofe to vs that he was a true man but to worke our saluation and consummation as elswhere the same Father saith Crux mors inferi nostra salus est Christs crosse death and descent to inferi are parts of our saluation And of Christ he voucheth mortem in inferno perimens he killed death in hell And yet if with you we should take consummation for demonstration which is farre fet and say Christ reââ¦used not that descent to shew himselfe a true man it nothing hurteth me since that burden of necessity lay on all men for desert of sinne till they were deliuered by Christ to haue their bodies goe to the graue and their soules to the place of punishment both which Christ refused not though he were in the one without any corruption in the other without any condemnation but as conquerour of both Of Iustine Irenaeus Tertullian we haue spoken before we shall not need to iterate your ouersights Iustine speaketh of no law at all Irenaeus noteth the law of the dead to be this that they must stay a time dead before their
to heauen as Dauid likewise foretold of him and there sitteth at the right hand of God vntill all his enemies in the rest of his members be made his footstoole and thence hath he shed forth this which you now see and heare euen the promise of the holy Ghost receaued of the Father for all his Know ye therefore for a suertie that God hath made him both Lord ouer all in heauen earth and hell and Christ euen the annointed Sauiour of all his elect Against this illation neither all the miscreants in earth nor all the Diuels in hell can open their mouths Where first we may see that Peter resteth more on the manner and power of Christs resurrection then simply on this that his soule was reunited to his body from which by death it was seuered Secondly he bringeth the words of Dauid to shew that either part of the Messias submitted to death for the time was to returne againe to life with greater glory the flesh free from all corruption the soule superiour to all destruction Thirdly that these things neither were nor could be verified in Dauid since Dauid saw corruption as his sepulchre prooued remaining to that day and Dauid was not as then ascended to heauen much lesse made Lord ouer all his enemies Heere is no such prerogatiue mentioned If this were common to Christ with Dauid and others of the faithfull how could Peter hence conclude that this was not spoken of Dauid but onely of the Messias Againe if this were no prerogatiue what need was there that Dauid should be a Prophet by speciall reuelation to know this much and that which Dauid knew was not onely this that Christ should rise to life againe but the words are that God would raise vp Christ after death to set him on his throne that is to giue him an euerlasting kingdome euen all power in heauen and earth subiecting all his enemies vnder his feet So that simply to rise from death was no prerogatiue nor proper to Christ but to rise Lord ouer all death and hell not excepted this was peculiar to Christ and not common to him with Dauid and therefore must needes be a speciall priuiledge to the manhood of Christ which is expressed chiefly in these words Thou wilt not forsake my soule in hades but bring me thence conquerer of all mine enemies You adde no flesh dead was euer free from corruption but onely Christes what then ergo his soule was in hell Why winch you where no man toucheth you doth any man say Christes soule was in hell because his flesh saw no corruption or rather that Dauids wordes are as plaine and peculiar to Christ in the one that Christes soule was not forsaken in hell as in the other that God would not suffer his flesh to see corruption and both being affirmed of Christ by way of speciall prerogatiue why should not both be likewise performed in Christ were not some being dead raised to life againe before their flesh putrified The promise of God to Christ that his flesh should not see corruption doth not onely assure a speedie resurrection but an impossibilitie that any corruption could preuaile against his flesh since the returne of his flesh to dust to which all others are iudged would bee the dissolution of his person for the time which by no meanes might befall him his Godhead being vnited vnto flesh and not vnto dust In these words therefore of Dauid the soule and bodie of Christ were appointed to be superiour to all contrarie powers that is the soule to hell the flesh to the graue and from both was Christ to rise as subduer of both that he might sit on his heauenly Throne as Lord ouer all not by promise onely as before but by proofe also as appeared in his resurrection And yet so many dayes as Christ did lyeth no man in his graue without some taint of corruption which in Christ was vtterly none It is a strange absurditie still to abuse your Reader calling this word hell which indeede is nothing but death in effect Againe to presume that we take it for Paradise or heauen or hell when wee referre it alwayes to the generall state of the dead and no farder immediately Then when you expound the wordes of the Creede Christ descended to hades your meaning is nothing in effect but that Christ died which was before deliuered in plained and shorter wordes and so your exposition is an idle and obscure repetition Againe hades in the new Testament is neuer taken for the death of the bodie since it is annexed to bodily death as a consequent after it and so your acception of it is repugnant to the trueth of the Scriptures And where you will at no time haue Hades taken for Paradise Heauen or Hell as here you pretend when you thereby note the place of soules deceased meane you they are neither in Heauen Paradise nor Hell are you not a wise man to talke so much of an inuisible place and when you come to the point you will haue it no place at all but you referre it alwayes to the generall state of the dead and no farder immediately An inuisible place you referre immediately to no place and thus when you will be frantike or foolish words shall loose their proper and plaine signification and containe no more then pleaseth you Shew vs a place where soules deceased are besides Paradise Heauen and Hell and wee will graunt you may exclude these three by some pretence when you spake of the place of hades but if you cannot then topos aides a place vnseene which you haue so much bowled at will be a place in spite of your heart and that immediately and consequently will bee Paradise Heauen or Hell whatsoeuer you presume or dreame to the contrarie Christ had another inestimable cause to reioyce that he was raised to life againe namely that he might fulfill his whole worke for our saluation which before his resurrection and ascension he could not accomplish When I told you that Christ after death was to conquere Hell and to free vs thence you would needes defend that Christ on the Crosse perfited our redemption and wrought our saluation and now you say which I take to bee the truer though you meane not to bee constant therein that before his resurrection and ascension hee could not accomplish the worke of our saluation The text saith God raised him vp loosing the sorrowes of death because it was impossible for him to be holden fast of it Will you conclude from hence ergo there were present sorrowes in the place where Christ was there is no strength in this reason There is more strength in it then either you will acknowledge or can answere The sorrowes of bodily death are all dissolued by the separating of the soule from the bodie Then after death there are no sorrowes of bodily death But God raised vp Christ loosing the sorrowes of
recenseri insernum siue gehennam mortem peccatum legem In the meane while thou must see our enemies heere numbred in order hell or gehenna death sinne and the law Christ hath gotten the victory ouer all these and the fruit of that victory redoundeth to vs. Bullinger The Apostle declareth that the victory ouer sinne death and hell is gotten by the might and merits not of the saints but of Christ to whom the saints must yeeld all glory praise and thanks And this explanation hath very excellent degrees First â⦠hell to wit the excrlasting punishment whereby the dead are condemned to the second death the second is sinne which is the force of death and hell For by sinne came death The third is the law the strength of sinne The law being then taken away the force of sinne decaieth sinne being abolished the power of death ceaseth death being disarmed hell is ouerthrowen Hyperius If death shall then haue no more rule it followeth that neither hell shall preuaile against the godly For this must be vnderstood of them since the wicked shall not be deliuered from the power of hell In these words ô death where is thy sting ô hell where is thy victory either God as conquerer or the saints as giuing the praise of the conquest to God in a sort reproch death and hell with the losse of their power and strength And very aptly is death put first and then hell For men die before they be cast into hell in which the wicked tast the second or eternall death Moe might be brought but with wise men there can be no question that the Saints at the last day being then fully freed from all their enemies may giue thanks to God for the victory purchased by Christ against them all hell and Satan not excepted Also we are to note that the Apostle heere plainely alludeth to that of Hoseah O Sheol o kingdome of death I wil be thy destruction not ô hell The Prophet speaketh this to comfort Israel in their captiuity against their continuall destruction and raizings out of this world You will soone brest other men that will beard the Apostle in this matter so boldly as you doe Indeed you and some others thinke it a glory to take part with the Iewes contradicting all that the Euangelists Apostles alleage out of the law and the Prophets touching Christ and his kingdome and you vouchsafe to yeeld to the holy Ghost speaking in them no more skill or vnderstanding of the old Testament but to allude to it and as it were to play with it when the true literall sense of most places as you thinke is farre from that which they intend But this Iudaizing whiles you would seeme more then others to smatch of a little Hebrew I for my part detest and professe to the world I take that euery where to be the true and direct meaning of Moses and the Prophets which Christ and his Apostles collect from their words And therefore Ierom saith of this very place as I say of all others That which the Apostle referreth to the resurrection of the Lord nos aliter interpretari nec possumui nec audemus we neither can nor dare interprete otherwise Yea so well learned you are in the circumstances of the Prophets speach that you pronounce The Prophet speaketh this to comfort Israel in their captiuity shewing that now the Lord would stay his iudgment that way and death should now destroy them no more Whereas Israel was then in no captiuity as appeareth by the 16 verse of the same chapter Samaria shal be desolute And God had no meaning to tell the people he would now stay his hand and they should be destroied no more because in the two next verses he threatneth They should be spoiled dried and desolate they should fall by the sword their infants should be dashed in pieces and their women with child should be ripâ⦠Wherefore except you will haue the holy Ghost to speake contradictions as your manner is you must acknowledge that amidst the fearefull troubles destructions and desolations then and afore denounced by the Prophet against the whole kingdome of Israel God doth comfort his elect amongst them that whatsoeuer became of their bodies in this affliction approching he had his time when he would vtterly destroy the power of all their enemies not onely freeing them by death from tyrants and persecutors but sauing them from death and hell by his annointed Messias who should be a death to death and a destruction to hell And as this was the greatest comfort and onely hope that Gods children in their miseries could expect or desire so the Apostle keepeth right the Prophets meaning and sheweth the time when all this shal be performed that is when all teares shal be wiped from the eies of Gods elect and all their enemies sinne death and hell troden vnder their feete In this comfort and promise as hell was the chiefest enemy so of all others that must be conteined within the limits of Gods assurance and their deliuerance In vaine are all other promises of grace whiles that enemy standeth vnuanquished And therefore as we most needed so God most promised and Christ most performed the destruction of hell aboue and afore the death of the body which you so much talke of and from which you giue to the reprobate a resurrection as well as to the godly which is but a cold comfort to him that duely considereth it Next we come to the Reuelation First I haue the keyes of Hades that is of destruction or of the kingdome of death and of death Or we may take them as two words for oâ⦠and the same thing That is both of them for death What shew of reason haue you to bring in here Christs power ouer the damned soules in hell because there is mention else where of the key of hell therefore the key of Hades here is the same What colour of reason is there in this Euen so much as you can not resist For if it be certaine which the Scripture confirmeth that Christ hath the keyes of both that is as well of hell as of death and gate them both by submitting himselfe to death And Hades in the new Testament is taken for hell as hitherto we haue seene and euen with Saint Iohn the writer of this Reuelation it is a different thing from death what can Hades be here but hell That Christ by his obedience vnto death had all power in heauen and earth and hell giuen him the Apostle is very plaine Christ became obedient to the death euen the death of the Crosse. Wherefore or for which cause God highly exalted him and gaue him a Name aboue euery name that at the name of Iesus euery knee of those in heauen on earth and vnder the earth should bow and euery tongue confesse that Iesus is the Lord. As he himselfe also witnessed when he said
the haynous sinnes and impenitent harts of men therefore Hades hell is said to come after the third in respect that the rebellions of men against God are ripe for hell when no plagues can conuert them from their wicked waies This the auncient Expositor in Austens works obserueth Hell followeth after Idest expectat deuorationem multarum animarum that is it expecteth to deuoure many soules slaine with these plagues Bede saith It may simply be vnderstoode that such as are spiritually dead eternall punishment doth there follow Lyra saith the meaning is post cursum vitae praesent is statim captus est ad poenam gehennae After the course of this present life the wicked is straight way caried to the torments of Gehenna Bullingere saith If thou vnderstand this wholy of the place of the damned they are surely throwen headlong to hell as many as being here consumed with diseases die without faith and repentance Rightly therefore doth hell follow after death Marlorate And Hades followeth after death This seemeth to be added to terrifie hypocrites that they may certainly know Gehenna is prepared for them except they repent in time Osiander Hades followed after death that iâ⦠the Images of some Insernall punishments followed It was permitted to death to take ãâã away not onely by the sword and famine but by the pestilence and ãâã ãâã is and to deliuer a great part of them to be tormented in hell For hell followeth the death not of the godly but of the wicked which repent not their contempt and persuing of the Gospell Thââ¦se after their corporall death descend directly to hell Full wisely you adde where I say God sometimes vseth the diuell to slay the bodies of wicked men whose soules are presently caried to hell that this is not the torments of hell in the place of the damned as if hell had not gates preuailing here on earth against the wicked and snares here laid to catch them that shall be damned and the diuell did not walke about deuouring the soules of the reprobate and in many of them both soules and bodies Wherefore if this be your best skill in points of Diuinitie you may goe to your old occupation which is filling your paper with phrases when you lacke matter The Scriptures need not your sound of wordes without any sense to declare their meaning Shew first substantially where the Scriptures vse these idle variations of yours and then we will after argue how well they sitte the circumstances of ech place otherwise it is madnesse to admit your imaginations for the meaning of the holy Ghost As you now confesse you neuer esteemed your old obiection though you earnestly vrged it of the fourth part of the ãâã ãâã ââ¦o hell at once because it is no new thing in the Scriptures to take a ãâã ãâã ãâã ââ¦or an vncertaine so when you haue throughly reuised all thââ¦se ââ¦lle and trifling coniectures now made against the vse of the word Hades for hell you may as ãâã ãâã all as one The last place is death and Hades that is the dominion or power of death were cast into hell I said it was absurd to say hell was cast into hell You answer it is more ãâã ãâã the world of soules was cast into hell Where you doe but dallie with words For ãâã that terme the world of soules Then yet at last you be wearie of one of your whitlesse phrases you may as well recall the rest as this Howbeit your head was so busied with this reuocation that you remembred not Saint Iohns words which you tooke vpon you to alleage and on which you grounded the sorce of your fond obiection It soundeth senselesse â⦠your eares you proclaime many sort to say that hell shall be cast into hell But it is more senselesse truethlesse in mine that you plainly falsifie S. Iohns wordes and then refute your owne follie Saint Iohn hath no such words that death and hades were cast into hell though you cite them in S. Iohns name and quote Reuel 20. vers 14. for them his wordes are Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire Where if we take death and hades for those that are the Rulers and gouernours of death and Hades as the Scripture often by the name of the place intend the persons then is there no absurditie but an euident veritie in this that the dââ¦ll and his Angels shall be cast into perpetuall fire or into the lake of fire And so you sport your selfe all this while with your owne falsitie and vanitie And yet haue you not auoided that which you would so same decline that it is more absurd to say Your world of sââ¦les wast cast into hell for then the soules of all Gods Saints must be cast into hell fire which blasphemic how your backe will beare I doe not know But you renounce that exposition of Hades and say You vse not that terme Then blush at your former presumption and later obliuion that hauing told vs this was the true and authentike and familiar ãâã of ãâã you now deny that euer you vsed that terme Looke in your woorthie Treatise pag. 97. and tell me whether those wordes be there or no. The masters of the Greekâ⦠tongue doe vse hades in proper sense onely in generall for the state of the dead the world of the dead THE WORID OF SOVLLS departed indifferently and indefinitely meaning aswell these in eternall ioies as those in paines And ouer right these wordes in the Margine you say The true and authentike and familiar sense of Hades I leaue you now to your owne deuotion whether you will recant or continue this proper true and authentike exposition that Hades meaning indifferently and indefinitely as well thââ¦se in eternall ioyes as those in paines was cast into hell There is no absurditie to say that at the last day the power kingdome and dominion of death shall be cast into hell that is eternally abolished We aske for trueth and sense and you giue vs emptie wordes and phrases You tosse these termes as Souldiers do pikes and then you say there is no absurditie in them You haue beene squaring rounding of Hades sometimes for the vnseene place of soules sometimes for the meere priuation of this life sometimes for the world of the dead in generall which compriseth the soules bodies of all that be dead be they good or bad somtimes also for the power dominion and kingdome of death which you enlarge aswel to heauen where the Saints are as to hell where the damned are Now which of all these shall be cast into hell not the place for then not onely hell shall be cast into hell which you say soundeth senselesle in your eares but heauen also which is most senselesse in mine not the world of the dead for so should the bodies and soules of all the Saints be throwen into hell fire which
I trust you dare not endure Perhaps your meere priuations shall be euerlastingly punished in hell the danger is not great for them since nothing can be no where nor feele no paine and so not in hell But after many deuices and aduices you say the power and dominion of death shall be cast into hell That shall vtterly cease at the resurrection when all soules are ioyned to their bodies againe How then shall that which wholy and finally ceaseth be cast into hell You meane it shall bee eternally abolished This is an erection of a new hell and no part of the old Happy were the damned both men and spirits if they might be cast into this new hell of yours that is vtterly and eternally be abolished But these be mockeries in themselues and falsities against the Christian faith That which is cast into the lake of fire shall there euerlastingly burne and not consume but dure in perpetuall torment Shall your dominion of bodily death euerlastingly burne in hell And shall it also feele the force of that fire You must then make Hades a person for besides persons nothing shal be cast into hell fire And if it be a person it must be a diuell or a man except you will find out a place for it amongst your sheepe and cattell that you sent aliue to Hell But such childish and peeuish deuices are not worth the refuting The Reader may see what it is for men to forsake the learned and sound expositions and assertions of auncient Fathers and betake themselues to their fresh and new fansies of which thy cannot tell what to make nor how to speake Though you meane the containing to be put for the contained hell for the diuels of hell as one Andreas and Bede likewise vnderstand it yet neither you nor they it seemeth doe consider that this place assigneth them to hell at the last day who yet then are not in hell But the Diuels are in hell alreadie Therefore the diuels cannot be vnderstood heere by Hades Can a man be so sottish vnlesse hee were besides himselfe as not to find that all this while he refuteth his owne falsifications of Saint Iohns wordes and not any position of mine nor of these two learned writers whom he disdaineth as not considering where the diuels are before the day of iudgement They doe not say the diuels shall then be cast into hell this is your coltish conceit from which you will not depart but into the lake of fire prepared as our Sauiour pronounceth for the diuell and his Angels And how come you now in your heate so hastily to determine where hell is which not long since you called rashnesse in me you told vs ere while The Apostle mentioneth the aire on high as being the place of Diuels Put to this that which heere you say the Diuels are in hell alreadie you meane the place of hell or else you say nothing against Andreas and Bede whom you would confute as not considering where the Diuels are Doe not you then determine that hell is in the aire on high and so not onely condemne your selfe of rashnesse by your owne verdict but gainesay the Scriptures who testifie that the diuels desired Christ not to commaund them into the deepe Yea by this resolution of yours the face of the earth where wee liue is hell since the diuels are heere also and compasse the earth and walke therein So that if we let you alone in steed of one hell you will make vs three the aire the earth the deepe since in all these three it cannot bee denied but the Diuels are And yet for all your tripping so light on the toe the diuels may and shal be at the last day cast into hell that is affixed to the place and torments there from which they shall not stirre as now they doe whiles the iustice of God doth suffer them to vphold and encrease their kingdome here on earth And where you vouch of your hades that it shall at the last day of iudgement be throwen into hell that is eternally be abolished as you conceaue and deriue your Hades that day shall enlarge it more then euer before and so continue it so reuer For all visible creatures in heauen and earth saue men shall after that day haue no more any being at all yea the first heauen and the first earth shall passe away and there shall be no more any sea which will greatly enrich your generall Hades that containeth the destruction of vnreasonable things and the perishing of visible creatures from hence as the proper Etymologie thereof admitteth Nay if the very naturall Etymologie of the word according to Grammar doe properly signifie NOT SEENE ANY MORE IN THIS WORLD as you affirme it doth then all both good and bad be they in heauen or hell shall after the day of iudgement be properly and euerlastingly in Hades For they shall neuer be seene any more in this world whose figure passeth away without returning and giueth place for euer to the world to come And this your Hades which you would cast into hell there to bee for euer abolished shall by the naturall Etymologie and proper signification thereof confessed and vrged by your selfe not only continue in hell and in heauen but comprise them both seeing the Citizens of either shall not be seene any more in this world Lastly heere is shewed the most generall and vniuersall rendring vp of all the dead whatsoeuer to iudgement But hell plainly hath not all the dead Therefore death and Hades doe not heere properly signifie the diuell and Hell When you say heere is shewed the vniuersall rendring vp of all the dead whatsoeuer to iudgement If you meane this of death hades that they rendred vp all the dead that came to iudgement you vouch a manifest vntrueth repugnant to the very wordes of Saint Iohn going next before for thus his wordes stand And the sea gaue vp her dead which were in her and death and Hades deliuered vp the dead which were in them So that all the dead were not rendred to iudgement by death and Hades the Sea had part by Saint Iohns owne speech and therefore death and Hades heere doe not signifie the Dominion of death which reacheth to the sea aswell as to the earth Againe Saint Iohn in the twelfth verse saw the dead both great and small stand before God And in the thirteenth he addeth the Sea also gaue vp her dead and death and hell deliuered vp the dead which were in them Hee saw then some dead stand before God which neither the Sea nor hades deliuered And since Paul telleth vs that the dead in Christ shall rise first and God will bring them which sleepe in Iesus with him to iudgement what hindreth but the dead in the twelfth of Saint Iohn may be the elect and the rest be deliuered vp from the deepe of the Sea and of
it It is a plaine true rule in mine opinion that the Euangelists and Apostles euery where by Hades intended hell and none of your wandring or stragling fansies Besides the Greeke Fathers with one consent vse Hades after the direction of the Canonicall writers for a place of darknesse vnder the earth prouided to receaue and detaine the Soules of men And in this sense neither the Scriptures nor the Fathers departed much from the auncient and true vse of the word amongst heathen and prophane Authors sauing that the Pagans made it common to the Soules of iust and vniust which the Scriptures neuer doe and the Fathers vtterly refuse after Christs Resurrection whatsoeuer they doe before Since then Hades by the manifest exposition of Saint Luke in his Gospell is the place of torment where the wicked after death are punished and the same Euangelist expresseth Dauids meaning to be this that Christs Soule after death was not left or forsaken in Hades what cause or reason hath any man to denie that Christ dying descended to hell there to spoyle powers and principalities and thence to leade Captiuitie Captiue that as he ascended to the highest heauens there to sit superiour to all the Elect Angels so he first descended to the bottomlesse deepe there to subiect the Reprobate Angels vnto his humane nature and to dissolue the power and sorrowes of hell of which it was impossible he should be held Here we must consider a maine obiection of yours euen those words of our common Creed he descended into hell originally it is he descended into Hades and in truth this is all you haue to alleadge for your opinion but I answere two waies first admitting then denying the Authoritie of these words in our common Creede You haue seene by this time what I haue to alleadge for that which I defend may besafely conceiued of the Creed The words themselues he descended to Hades haue euident warrant in the holy Scriptures and Peter exactly concludeth out of Dauids words that Christs Soule was not left in Hades What Hades is with S. Luke the writer of the Acts we likewise haue seene It is euen the place where the wicked are tormented after death Put these together and tell me what they want of Christes descending into hell before he rose from the dead The words in English he descended into hell are confirmed by the publike authoritie of this Realme as well in the Booke of common praier as in the Articles of Religion agreed on by the Conuocation and ratified by Act of Parliament So that all your euasions elusions of the priuation condition and dominion of death to be ment thereby are vtterly reiected and condemned by generall and full consent of Prince Pastours people within this Realme and Christs descent to hell after death hath beene constantly and continually professed and beleeued in the Church of England euer since the Gospell was here established What you haue said against it I leaue to the Readers wise and indifferent iudgement who wil easily tell you you must bring better sluffe then either phrases or fansies before the common Creede may be thus reiected and despised You enioyne vs three Rules to be exactly and precisely kept in the expounding of these words Namely 1. distinction of Matter 2. consequence of order 3. proprietie of words Might not those godly men thinke you misse in some such circumstances although the Scripture cannot The first compilers of the Creede meaning shortly orderly and plainly to deliuer the summe of the Christian faith as touching the three persons in Trinitie and the chiefest blessings which God bestoweth on his Church in this life and the next by Iesus Christ our Lord might not with any discretion in so briefe and compendious assume of Christian Religon proposed to the simple and vulgar sort of all ages and sexes vse either any needlesse repetition disordered confusion or obscure inuolution of things requisite to our Saluation To these Rules agree all that haue expounded the Creede in the Church of Christ to this very day saue your selfe and such as haue opened you the gap to these innouations And these Rules allowed do cleane cast your exposition out of doores For where it is most plainly said that Christ died and was buried which words no plow-man woman nor child of reasonable yeeres can mistake you after Christs buriall come in with a darke and figuratiue phrase of descending to Hades which in effect you confesse is no more but what was said before in knowen and open speech that Christ died And this obscure and strange circumlocution of death you will haue to be an Article of your faith as if euery Christian creature were bound vpon danger of his saluation to vnderstand what Sheol or Hades doth signifie in the Greeke and Hebrew Tongues which is a position meete for such a Diuine as you are Your exposition therefore is repugnant to all three Rules For it is a superfluous vnorderly enigmaticall iteration of that which was before expressed in due place with as plaine and easie wordes as any might be spoken by the tongue of man Now with what Arguments you or any man liuing Hu. Bro. not excepted can prooue that Hebrew or Greeke phrases are Articles of Religion and must be conceaued and beleeued of all men before they can be saued as yet I doe not vnderstand And this is the miserie of your cause that not onely you haue no word in Latine English nor in any tongue else answerable to your Sheol or Hades but when you come to lay open your owne phrases the exposition is more ridiculous then the Translation For by Christs descending to Hades which you call the power dominion and kingdome of death you meane no more but that Christs Soule seuered from his Body went to heauen to the rest of the blessed Soules there And here I report me to him that will vouchsafe to read your 196. 197. pages whether you haue any thing there but store of phrases extending intending enlarging amplifying the name power and dominion of death which when all is done and said amounteth to this much that Christes soule seuered by death from his body submitted it selfe to the base and low condition of the dead by taking the paines to goe to heauen to the rest of the Saints there This is all in effect that your Periphrasis and Emphasis moriendi doe containe and the great fall or whole casting downe of Christes person which you so Rhetorically set out with termes of the broadest and longest size hath nothing in it but only this that his soule after death which dissolued his person ascended to the societie of the blessed soules in heauen The rest is your emphaticall and paraphrasticall vanitie swelling with wordes and shrinking in sense which needeth none other refutation but sober obseruation that when two sides are spent nothing is said but you are where you began For would you not varie so many phrases
as you doe tending all to expresse one thing but seeke a little to shew vs what matter is contained in them you should soone see what labour you haue lost in this Carrecke of words which you haue newly brought vs home Your meere and simple death which you say is nothing els but the going asunder of the soule from the body hath of necessitie thus much in it It is the separation of the soule from the body which is the cause of life in the body It is the dissolution of the person which consisteth of body and soule It is the priuation of life which endeth with the departing of the soule It is the continuing of death since possibly there is no regresse from the priuation to the habite without the mightie hand of God working aboue nature For the soule departing neuer returneth till God commaund by whose word heauen and earth were made What now after death becommeth of both parts of man is no hard matter to conceaue Salomon saith Dust meaning flesh first made of dust returneth to earth as it was and the spirit to God that gaue it by him to be disposed and adiudged to ioy or paine as pleaseth him The body then goeth to corruption the soule receaueth iudgement where it shall remaine in hell or heauen till the bodie be restored againe which shall be at the last day Descending to hades after death cannot be verified of the whole person of man but in respect of the parts Referred to the body it is as much as buried and laide in the place where it shall putrifie and returne to dust Applied to the soule it must signifie the place to which the soule is caried which I say must be vnder earth since heauen is neuer called by that name nor expressed by that word either in the Scriptures or in any other sacred or prophane writers The power and dominion of death which you so much speake of is nothing else but Gods ordinance that from death there is no returne to life till hee appoint If then there be no dominion nor kingdome of death preuailing or ruling in heauen where the soules of the Saints are without their bodies then Christ in ascending to heauen descended not to Hades Againe with what trueth can you auouch Christes soule came vnder the full power and dominion of death since death had no power ouer the bodie or soule of Christ longer or farder then he himselfe would permit and his soule free from all bands and paines of death destroied the dominion and kingdome of death to which it was alwaies superiour and neuer subiect but onely that he might shew himselfe with greater power to be conquerer of death rather in rising from the dead then in declining the force of death as if he were not able after death and in death to dissolue the dominion and power of death Wherefore your exaggerating the power and dominion of death OVER THE SOVLE of Christ and that IN HEAVEN whither you graunt Christes soule went after death is not onely a vaine and idle flourish but a poisoned and pestilent doctrine if you take not heed to it since no power of death but Christes will to shew himselfe Lord of life and death either seuered his soule from his bodie or bestowed his soule in any place after death or detained him in the condition of death but he was free to die when he would and rise from death when he would which euerteth all power and dominion of death ouer him how much soeuer in wastefull wordes you auouch the contrarie Touching the proprietie of wordes that you say is as true as the rest For Hades hath no such natiue and proper sense as you talke of but exactly and directly when it is referred to a place and not to a person signifieth a place of darknesse where nothing can be seene as with one consent Heathen and Christian writers acknowledge And the word descending after death which you must applie to the soule ascending to heauen you childishly change into the fall of the person from lise to death or inconstantly varie you know not how to Christes submission when he died or his abasement by lying held and subdued so long time in death Where againe you incurre the same sands that you did before in affirming Christ was held and subdued of death for the time which is plainly false doctrine since he would abide that time in death least any should thinke him not truely dead but was neuer vnder the power and dominion of death And as for lying held in death that phrase is strangely referred to the soule of Christ which ascended to the third heauen with more honour and ioy then it receaued in this life heere on earth What Ruffine saith is not much to be regarded if we beleeue S. Ierom neither was Ruffines faith sound nor his authoritie any thing in the Church and yet were he woorth the respecting he maketh more against you then for you For first these wordes are not vsed as an exposition of Christs descent to Hades but Ruffine saith Diuina natura in mortem per carnem descendit non vt lege mortalium detinerââ¦tur a Morte sed vt per se resurrecturus ianuas mortis aperiret The diuine nature of Christ descended to death by his flesh not to be held of death after the law of mortall men but that rising of himselfe hee might open the gates of death Where he saith the diuine nature descended to death he speaketh not of the soule but of the godhead of Christ which words by your leaue require a sober interpretation and yet in respect of the diuine glory the phrase of descending vnto death signifieth Christes submission to die not his descent after death And withall he refelleth two of your fansies first that Christ was was not held of death which you say he was Secondly that he followed not heerein the lââ¦w of mans nature which you say he did And that Christes soule descended to hell by Ruffines opinion his wordes are plaine enough in many places He applieth that to Christ which Dauid saith Thou hast brought my soule out of hell and alleaging the place of Peter In his spirit Christ preached to them which were in prison heerein saith ââ¦e it is declared quid operââ¦ââ¦gerit in Inferno What Christ did in hell So that the lesse hold you take of Ruffine the better for you and your cause he will doe more harme then good If any thinke this to be somewhat figuratiue yet is it verely so familiar and easie to all people as that other word in the Creede is he sitteth at the right hand of God yea it is farre easier When you can diue deepe into your owne fansies you thinke them as familiar to all others as to your selfe If this were so easie and readie with the simpler sort as you make it me thinkes it should not so much trouble
mortall and miserable life in this world but to be conformed to his glorious body that is to incorruption and immortality g Thus I vnderstand your Thaddeus also Athanasius in his Creed as it seemeth most reasonably and necessarily because they expresse neither his death nor his buriall at all in any other words saue these he descended to hades You runne so fast on your owne conceits that you see not what you passe by Hath Thaddeus no words touching Christs death what make you then of these scant a line before ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã how Christ humbled himselfe and died And though the Creed prouided for the simpler sort distinguisheth Christs crucifying death buriall and descent to hell yet what need is there that the learned euery time they talke of Christs crosse or death should number all these seuerally and orderly as they stand in the Creed crucifying is enough to note his death for they crucified him vnto death Christs buriall had in it no more but the certainty of his death and by Gods prouidence the vigilancââ¦e of his enemies that his body should not be thought to be stolen away by his owne Disciples Other moment or matter of our redemption there was none in Christs buriall The goodly words with which you would feed vs that in the graue he came vnder the power strength dominion and kingdome of death are rather variations for a nouice then any points of sensible doctrine for a diuine So that Athanasius expressing Christs suffering for our saluation his descending to hades and rising the third day from the dead fully compriseth all the principall works which Christ performed for our saluation from his crosse to his resurrection Now what Athanasius meaneth by hades since his works are extant in Greeke we shall not need to depend on your partiall coniectures We haue many plaine and perspicuous places which deliuer his sense and meaning vnto vs. I haue shewed before which I must not so often repeat that Athanasius maketh two places of condemnation whither man after death was adiudged for sinne ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã the graue and hades And of Christs body and soule he directly saith ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã The bodie of Christ went to the graue the soule to hades these places being diuided with a great distance and the graue receauing the presence of his body for there was his body present and hades receiuing his humane spirit Thinke you this to be plaine enough that Christs descent to hades was not his buriall where his body lay but the going of his soule to hades whither man was condemned for sinne and which Athanasius saith The Diuell kept as the onely place of his strength The enemie saith he fallen from heauen remoued from the earth expelled from the ayre ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã euery where vanquished determined if he could to keepe hades safe For this place was yet left vnto him But as soone as Christ died the world wanted the light of her Sunne the Vaile of the temple rent the earth trembled the Rocks did cleaue in sunder ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã and the souldiers together with the keepers of Hades did shake for feare ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã And the Diuell thiââ¦ing to carry Christ to hades was himselfe throwen out of hades ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã For it was not long after but Christ loosed the sorrowes or paines of hades Athanasius then without peraduentures taketh hades for hell and Christs descent thither in soule to worke the subuersion of Satans kingdome and deliuerance of all his elect thence were they liuing dead or yet vnborne Your seeking to peruert this reason because the auncient Creedes want sundry other Articles which now are in our Creede is to no purpose For so much as they all do euermore intend to set downe perfectly the summe of Christs accomplished Redemption and mediation at the least Not any of those his maine workes are in them omitted If your pride were not greater then your skill we should haue a great deale lesse prating from you How shall the Reader beleeue your report of Fathers and their meanings when you neuer saw so much as the Creedes of the auncient Councels and yet pronounce so boldly of them as if you had perused them all but yesterday The great Nicene Creede maketh no mention of Christs death or buriall but saith He suffered and rose the third day The first generall Councell of Constantinople whose Creede was after vsed in the Church Seruice saith Christ suffered and was bââ¦ied and rose the third day omitting his crucifixion and death The great Councell of Aphrica and the generall Councell of Ephesus concurre with the Nicene and say he suffered and rose the third day What truth then is there in your words where you say they all doe euermore intend perfectly to set downe the Summe of Christs Redemption for vs not any of those his maine works are in them omitted Is the death of Christ none of his maine works for our Redemption finde you now that his buriall may be omitted and yet the Creede not be imperfect These things good Sir are implyed as consequent or antecedent to the parts expressed For if Christ did rise the third day he rose from the Graue where he had lien three daies and buried he was not before he was dead As also he rose not but from the dead Wherefore in his resurrection are both his death and his buriall comprised Besides he suffered vnto death Which things were all plainly proposed to the simple in their Creede called Aposto like but not in the Creedes concluded by the learned Pastours in their Councels The same course kept the Greeke and Latin Fathers sometimes expressing Christs death buriall and descent to hell sometimes omitting some of them as the cause required Epiphanius saith ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã Christ saith he speaking of the things as they were done is crucified buried he descended to the places vnder the earth in his Deitie and in his soule he leadeth Captiuitie Captiue and riseth the third day Vigilius Constat Dominum nostrum Iesum Christum sexta feria crucifixum ipsa die ad Infernum descendisse ipsa die in sepulââ¦hris iacuisse ipsa die Latroni dixisse hodie mecum eris in Paradiso It is certaine that our Lord Iesus Christ was crucified on the sixt day and that day descended to hell that day lay in the graue and that day said to the Theise This day shalt thou be with me in Paradise And declaring how this was verified in Christ ergo dicimuâ⦠Dominum iacuisse in sepulchro sed in sola carne Dominum descendisse ad infernum sed in sola anima Then we say that the Lord lay in his graue but with his Body alone and descended to hell but with his Soule alone without his Body Howbeit to speake plainly your Thaddeus whom
no doubt can be made saue of Austen onely because he sometimes repeateth the Creede without that clause which yet he confesseth to be a maine point of the Christian faith That in all places they did varie from this forme though you pretend the names of Ignatius Irenaeus Iustine Tertullian Origen c. yet they prooue no such thing These Fathers do often as learned discoursers enlarge the parts of the Creed somtimes as short comprisers of it they contract the summe thereof into fewer wordes but yet the most and most famous churches had from the beginning a briefe collection of the Christian faith deliuered to the simple people to be learned and said by heart before they could be baptized Of this doe many learned and auncient Fathers beare witnesse Duodecim Apostolorum Symbolo sides sancta concepta est In the Creed of the twelue Apostles saith Ambrose is the holy faith conceaued or comprised So Leo Catholici Symbolibreuis perfecta confessio dââ¦odecim Apostolorum totidem est signata sententijs The short and perfect confession of the Catholike Creed is sealââ¦d vp with twelue sentences of the twelue Apostles So Ierom. In the Creed of our faith and hope which being deliuered from the Apostles is not written in paper and ââ¦ke but in the tables of mens hearts after the confession of the Trinitie and vnitie of the Church all the mysteries of Christian Religion are closed vp with the resurrection of the ââ¦lesh Isidore saith the Apostles readie to depart one from another Normam prius sibi futurae praedicationis in commune constituunt appoint first in common a summe of that they would preach least sââ¦uered in diââ¦ers places they ââ¦ould propose any diuers or dissonant thing to those whom they brought to the ââ¦ith of Christ. Rabanus Maââ¦rus de Institutione clericorum li. 2. ca. 56. hath the very same wordes Neither could Tertullian whose name you vse haue truely said r Regâ⦠fidei vn a omnino est sola immobilis irreformabilis there is but one rule of faith and only that immooueable and vnchangeable vnlesse there had beene some forme of faith receaued in the Church which no man might alter or change For how could he saie there is but ONE RVLE if euery Church had a seuerall rule Or how was it immooueable or irreformable if there were no certaine wordes or parts but euerie man might alter at his will Tertullian therefore doth not repeat the words of the Creed which he varieth in euerie place where he citeth it but he pointeth to the chiefe parts thereof no where keeping the same words but in substance the same matter Against Praxeas the heretike he saith Hanc regulam ab initio Euangelij decurrisse This rule of faith hath had continuance from the beginning of the Gospell Against heretikes in generall he saith Haec regula à Christo probabitur instituta This rule shall be prooued to haue beeââ¦e appointed by Christ. And yet in these two places he keepeth not the same wordes but the same heades and as it were the same principles of faith As likewise both these differ in wordes from that rule which he cited before being omnino vna euerie where one and by no meanes alterable Irenaeus saith The Church throughout the whole world euen to the endes of the earth receaââ¦ed from the Apostles and their Disciples that faith which be beleââ¦eth in one God the Father almightie maker of heauen earth c and in Iesus Christ the Sonne of God incarnate for our saluation and in the holie spirit which preached by the Prophets the dispensation and comming of God and the birth of Christ our Lord by the Virgine his pââ¦ssion resurrection and ascension with his flesh into heauen and his comming from heauen in the glory of his Father to recapitulate all to raise vp all flesh and to giue iust iudgement in all Thâ⦠faith the Church dispââ¦rsed through the world hauing receaued faithfully keepeth and constantly teacheth and deliuereth these things as it were with one mouth For though there be different languages in the worlde ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã Yet the summe aud effect of the tradition or faith deliuered is one and the same Neither doe the Churches in Germany otherwise beleeue or otherwise teach nor those in Spaine nor those in Fraunce nor those in the East nor those in Egypt nor those in Africke nor those in the middest of the world So that all the churches in the world had one and the same tradition and rule of faith and though the wordes in some places did differ yet in sense they agreed and the chiefer the churches were the more was their care to preserue this Creed not written as Ierom and others confesse but deliuered and receaued by hart euen from the Apostles and their Disciples And since the Church of Rome then one of the most famous Churches in the world kept this Creede comprised in twelue sentences according to the number of the twelue Apostles as Leo testifieth not long after Ruââ¦ines time and Ambrose said the same in effect euen in Ruââ¦ines time and other Churches likewise both East and West had retained the same from their first foundation as Irenaeus witnesseth It can not be but the Creede which we haue at this day was the verie same which the primitiue churches had and kept and these auncient Fathers that alleage the authoritie thereof bring not euerie where the exact wordes but the chiefe parts and grounds thereof as appeareth by Tertullian who saith The Rule or Creed is one and vnchangeable notwithstanding he bringeth three seueral variations therof in wordes For the clause of Christs descent to hell I haue said before it was retained in many places though it wanted in the church of Rome and some other churches of the East and no doubt the Church of Rome and the rest conceaued no lesââ¦e by Christes resurrection from the dead but that he rose conquerer of death and hell as the prophet foretold he should in saying O death I will be thy death ô hell I will bee thy destruction as Christ professed he did when he said I haue the keies of death and hell and as the great and generall Councels of Ephesus Chalcedon and Constantinople did expound that Article of the Creed Christ rose the third day ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã hauing ââ¦irst spoiled hell And vpon this resolution of these generall Councels and not as you dreame vpon the opinion of Limbus preuailing the Churches that wanted that Article which others had receaued it into their Creed as contained there before in force and effect but now they concurred in one consent of faith and wordes which before they did not Our third reason is if there be no certaine benefit to the godly by Christs going to hell then doubtlesse he went not thither But there is no certaine benefit to the godly by Christs going to hell Therefore
vs. 132. 133 How Christ shall the second time appeare without sinne 27 How far Christs sufferings must be extended 343 How Christs soule was in his Fathers hands 549 How Christ was in Paradise the day of his death 549 How Christ was like vs in all things sinne excepted 86 How Christ might feare and yet be freed from it 486. ââ¦87 How Christ loosed the sorrowes of death 624 How Christ must rise from the dead 627 What Christ discerned in all his sufferings 317 What Christ vndertooke for vs. 324 What things Christ inwardly beheld in the garden 387 Why Christ might dislike the death of the body 398 The ioynt sufferings of Christ in his bodily death most auaileable for our saluation 68 Euery thing in Christ was meritorious but not satisfactorie for sinne 179. 180 Both body and soule must suffer in Christ. 130. 131 Christs bodily death part of the punishment of our sinnes 11 By Christs corporal punishment we are freed from spirituall and eternall 222. 223 Christs blood could not be shed but by Satan and his instââ¦uments 231 Christs recompence for the wrong receaued at Satans hands 232 Christs suffering without the gate of the city 113. 114 Christs death was most iust with God in respect of his will to saue vs. 262. 263 Christs death not exacted as a debt but ââ¦eceaued as a voluntarie sacrifice 264 Christs doings aboue mans reason 310 The nature measure and purpose of Christs sufferings 332 The paines of Christs soule as of his body were equall to the strength of his patience 334 Christs faith did not faile in the sharpest of his paines 335 All Christs sufferings were righteous and holie 344. 438 Christs words Iohn 12. auouch not contraries 482. are expounded 483 Christs senses were not ouerwhelmed with feare and sorrow 477 Christs feares and sorrowes not like the reprobates 448. 449. 450 We must not increase Christs sufferings at our pleasure 478 Christs passió did not kil his soul but his body 528 Christs conquest secureth our soules seuered from our bodies 670 Christs Soule was not tormented with Gods immediat hand 34 Christs Soule suffered but died not for vs. 133 Christ soule suffered by all her powers but not the death of the Soule 136. 137. 140 Christs Soule chiefe patient in paine and agent in merit 179 Christs Soule could not merit if it wanted vnderstanding and will 480 Christs Soule in her greatest paines did most shew the life of patience and obedience to God 524 Christs Soule was passible but died not 533 Christs Soule was not fastned to hell three daies 551 Christs Soule was in glory before his Body 669 Christs Soule liuing by grace could no way be dead 523 Neither Scriptures nor Fathers vnderstââ¦nd Christs Soule by his Body 426. 427 Christs Soule was not crucified through infirmity 510 Christâ⦠Soule was not vnder the dominion of death 650 What wee must beware in the sufferings of Christs Soule 536 Many writers teach the sufferings of Christs Soule without the paines of hell 536 Why Christs Soule and not his Body was to conquere hell 668 It is not against the faith that Christes Soule should conquere hell 622 Christs manââ¦ood praied for that with all humilitie which hiâ⦠person by ââ¦ight might haue chalenged 378 Christâ⦠manhood might feare the glory of Gods iudgement 380 Christs manhood miââ¦ht feare the power of Gods wrath against our sinnes which he was to beare 380 Christs manhood might feare the sting of death as horrible to mans nature 381 Christs manhoode was to conquere hell 667. though by power of his Godhead 670 Christs flesh found no ease in death though his Soule were full of hope 424 Christs flesh was weake though his Spirite was willing 508 Christs flââ¦sh could not putrifie 623 Christs praier in the Garden was well aduised 397 Christâ⦠praier was no maze 4ââ¦7 Christs praier was not against his Fathers will 397. 465. 466. 470. 471. 472 Christs praier was full of faith 474. 475 Christs praier was with condition and reseruation of Gods will 382 Compassion and pittie are alwaies painfull 27 Compassion is affliction though it be a vertue 438 Christ more compassiââ¦nate then Moses or Paul 359 Christs complaint on the Crosse. 409 How many senses it may beare 418. 420. 421 The first sense 416 The second sense 418 The third sense 421 The fourth sense 430 The fift sense 432 The sixt sense 433 The Saints compââ¦aint in their afflications 418 The euent of Christs coââ¦plaint on the Crosse. 419 No shame for Christ to complaine on the Crosse as he did 420 Leo maketh Christs complaint on the Crosse an instruction no lamentation 432 We were conceaued in sin before we were quickned with life 173 Mans flesh is defiled in conception before the soule is created and infused 174. 175 None can be euerlastingly condemned for anothers fault 363 Christs conquest ouer hell and death 667 was ordered most to Satââ¦ns shame 669 Contradictions obiected by the Defender are easily answered 69 Contradictions in the Defender 320 A shamefull contradiction of the Defender 423 The words of the Creed examined 648 How long this clause of Christs descent to hell hath beene in the Creede 653. 654 Hades in the Creede muââ¦t signifie hell 649 Hell in the Creede is no new translation 652 The Creede continued from the Apostles times 664 Twelue parts of the Creede ââ¦64 What Crââ¦sse of Christ it was that Paul so much reoiyced in 73. 74 75 How the Fathers and new writers expound that place 76. 77 How farre the Crosse of Christ extendeth it selfe by the Scriptures 79 We reioyce in the effects of Christs Crosse. 81 Christ was not voââ¦de of all comfort on the Crossâ⦠410. 411 What comfort Christ had on the Crosse. 412 The death of the Crosse the greatest exââ¦anition of Christ. 433 Christs Soule was not Crucified through infirmitie 501 Figuratiuely the Soule may be said to be Crucified 80 What Cup Christ dranke of 373 What Christ meant by the houre and Cup of his Passion 443 Christ and his members must drinke of one and the same Cup. 353 What part of the Curse Christ bare for our sinnes 234. 235 Hanging on a tree was not the whole Curse of the Law 236 A double Curse of sinne 236 Two kindes oâ⦠Cââ¦rses in the Law 239 The bodily death which Chââ¦ist suffered was the Curse which he sustained 240 Cursing and blââ¦ssing compared doe manifest each the other 249 What is true Cursing and blessing from God 250 How Christ was made a Curse for vs. 257 Christs death was a kinde of Curse 259 Christ vndertooke to satisfie but not to suffer our Curse 260 The Curse for sinne is triple 266 Cyprian wrested by the Defender 274 D D Amnation What paines are essentiall to it 37. 39 The horror of Gods iudgements not neere the paines of the Damned 227 The Godly in this life feele not the paines of the damned 320 Sharper paines are reserued for the damned then now they feele 334 Christ was not
paines passe the patience of Men and Angels 450 The true paines of hell are not felt in this life 451. 462 The true paines of hell are proper to the place 454. 455 The true paines of hell are aboue and against nature 464. 465 We must not reââ¦oyce in suffering helâ⦠paines 441 A broken spirit is not the paines of hell 516 Christ brought vs backe from hell 607 No place for soules vnder earth but hell 614 It is not against the faith that Christs Soul should conquere hell 622 Christ must rise conquerer of death and hell 628 The Iewes were promised their Messias should conquere hell 628 All the names of hell prooue it to be in the earth 632 Hell is in the earth yet some diuels in the aire 633 Why the heauens are compared with hell in the Scriptures 634 Our victorie against death and hell not full till the last day 637 638 Christ ââ¦th the keyes of death and of hell 642. 643 Nothing but persons cast into hell 645 The Defender maketh three hells in steede of one 645 Christs spoââ¦ling of hell precedent to his resurrection 673 Hereticke alwaies vrged the same places that the Defender doth 425 What the Holocaust did signifie 111. 112 What ââ¦ire might note in the Holocaust 116 I. IMmediate What suffering is Immediate from â⦠God 27. 32 God is not the Immediate and principall inflicter of hââ¦ll paines 2â⦠29 Christs soule was not tormented with Gods Immed aââ¦e hand 34 God can punish the soule by meanes without his Immediate hand 219 God the author of all Christs afflictions but not by his Immediate hand 298. 299 God is the principall agent in all our sufferings but not with his Immediate hand 302 How ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã and Infers concurre in signification  What place Tertullia taketh Inferi to be 585. 586 Inferi are places and persons vnder the earth 5ââ¦7 Inferi are not now the place and state of good and bad deceased 588 Saint Austin taketh Inferi for hel and not for the state of the dead 198. 590 The soules of the godly are not in Inferi 602 Infernus with the latin fathers is more theÌ death 603 Inferi not found in the Scriptures in any good sense ââ¦04 Inferi no place for the godly after Christes resurrection 605 Infernus is not the place nor state of all soules deceased 606 Christ did not suffer paines truely Infinite 161 Christs Infirmitie was voluntarie 407 Christs Infirmitie was power 416 How all the kingdomes of the earth might bee shewed vnto Christ in an Instant 308. 309 Irenaeus did write in Greeke 584 Where Irenaeus thought Christs soule was after death 583. 584 The rule of Iustice suffereth the stronger to beare the burden of the weaker 292 Gods Iustice in subiecting Satans kingdome to Christs manhood 230 Gods Iustice might punish Christs bodie but not Christs soule with death 337 The Iudgement of God to which Christ submitted himselfe for our redemption 348 Gods Iudgement for our redemption concerneth Christ men and Angels 348 In this Iudgement God required of Christ satisfaction for the sinnes of men 349 K K ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã what it signifieth 625 Christ hath the Keyes of death and of hell 642. 643 Kindred goeth by blood and not by the soule 509 Our naturall Knowledge commeth by sense 196 The meanes of mans Knowledge 199 Our loue and ioy doe follow our Knowledge 462 L LEo maketh Christs words on the Crosse an instruction no lamentation 432 How Christ was like vs in all things sinne excepted 86. 324 Christ not like vs in any sinfull affections 322 How Christ was like vs in his sufferings 323 Christ not like vs in any want of grace or touch of sinne 326 To what lower parts of the earth Christ descended 554 What is ment by the lower parts of the earth 555 The lower earth is all one with the lower Sheol 556 The lower Shcol signifieth hell and not the graue 557. 558 The lower earth Ezechiel vseth for hell 561 The lower parts of the earth are hell 562 M MArtyrs and Malefactors haue a stronge conflict with death though we perceaue it noâ⦠389 The glory of Martyrs were not great if their paines were not great 390. 391 Martyrs find ioy and ease after death but not in death 301 Why Christ feared more then Martyrs doe 395 Christs senses might not be ouerwhelmed as Martyrs are 396 The manner of breathing out Christs Soule was miraculous 87. 88. 89. 90 The Fathers obserue that it was miraculous 91. 92. 93 So doe the new writers 94 Moses praier for the people examined 359 The purpose of Moses praier for the people 360 How Moses in his praier is excused from sin 365 Moses face did shine when he know it not 461 Moses was not amazed in his prayer 368 N THe name of nature in the graces of God and ioyes of heauen is a vaine distinction 461 There was no necessitie in our redemption but Christs will power and libertie 283 284. 285 The Fathers disclaime all necessitie in the death of Christ. 285 No necessitie in the death of Christ 286 Christs feare and agony came not from necessitie but from his humilitie and feruencie 339 Neither necessitie nor infirmitie could oppresse Christ. 405 New wââ¦iters teach the sufferings of Christs Soule without the paines of hell 536 New writers teach Christs descent to hell 546. 547 New writers obserue Christs manner of dying to haue beene miraculous 94 O OLeuians coniectures for his sense of Christs descent to Hades are but weake 631 P. PAines of this life Christ did beare but not of hell 217. 218 Christes Paines might be vnknowen and yet not the paines of hell 161 In outward Paines men perceiue and acknowledge Gods hand vpon them 170 Paines proper to the soule are not by and by the paines of hell 214 All Christs Paines were holy 215 More required in our ransome then onely Paines 216 We cannot iudge of other mens Paines 328. Excessiââ¦e Paine bringeth death 447 How Christ was in Paradise the day of his death 549 The Parable of the strong man bound and spoyled ââ¦74 Christes Patience was greater then any mans whatsoeuer his paines were 394 How Christs patience exceeded all mens 395 Christs patience at the highest before he complained on the crosse 418 Saââ¦nt Paul 1. Cor. 15. keepeth the true sense of the Prophet Osee. 641 Pauls wish for the Iewes considered 360 The time was when Paul so wished Ibid. If Paul spake of the time when he wrote his words were conditionall Ibid. What Paul meant when he wished to be separated from Christ for the Iewes 361. 362 How the Grecians expound Pauls words 361 How Paul in his wish was excused from sinne 365 Paul wished if it were possible or lawfull 366 Paul was not amazed in his prayer 368 The true sense of Pauls and Moses words Rom. 10. 567 568. Positiue punishment now in hell 214 No Positiue thing common to good and bad after death 581 Christ suffered not
the time though it were after restored with greater glory This I did not put for the cause of his agonie as you idlely amplifie but noted it as a respect that might worthily lead Christ to dislike or abhorre death in respect of his perfection and communion with God aboue all men and Angels saue for the will of his father and the good of man which ouerruled this dislike in him g Defenc pag. 105 li 22. You say excellent well but by your practise in all matters so farre as I see you neuer meane to obserue it in Gods cause let Gods booke teach vs what to beleeue and what to professe shew me then where you read in Gods word any or all these to be effectuall causes of this strange ãâã or ãâã my part I shall neuer beleeue you If I did professe to bind mens faiths to these causes of Christes agonie as you doe to your new redemption by the paines of the damned I would shew you where I redde them in the word of God or els I would leaue ââ¦ch beleeuer to his libertie but I forwarned all men that the Scriptures directly and particularly speaking nothing of the causes of Christes agonie the safest rule that I could find or they could follow was not to depart from any knowen and receaued grounds of Religion and principles of pietie for the causes thereof For since the Scriptures keep silence and our Sauiour himselfe would not shew it to all his Disciples but chose three from the rest to goe with him and tooke the darke time of the night and left those three whose eies were so heauie that they could not forââ¦eare sleepe about a stones cast before he would pray because he would not haue thââ¦m ãâã to all that he said or did in that place I see no reason why any man should be ouer curious in searching that which the word of God hath not precisely reuealed specially seeing no demonstratiue cause can be giuen of secret affections and voluntarie actions such as these were in Christ. And your audacious and presumptuous boldnesse is the more chalengeable for that you not onely take vpon you to giue the right and exact cause therof out of your owne braine but you light on such a cause as hath no foundation in any part of the Scripture nor any coherence with the maine positions of the Christian faith vnfalliblely deliuered in the word of God Wherfore I haue not transgressed my directions when I teach what iust and waighty respects of feare sorow zeale our Lord Sauior had in the worke of our redemption which might be the causes of that earnest prayer agonie and withall shewed the iudgements and opinions of diuers ancient and learned Fathers concerning the same but you as insolent in your conclusions as in your conceits take vpon you to specifie the full and true cause thereof for which you haue no shew of Scriptures nor touch of reason And such is the cause which you yeeld that thereby you crosse the chiefe streames of faith and trueth most currant in the sacred Scriptures and with all learned and religious antiquitie The same rule then binding you which bindeth me shew you what Prophet Euangelist or Apostle euer taught or thought the paines of the damned to be inflicted on Christes soule in the Garden by Gods immediate hand and that without the paines of hell we could not be ãâã or els my not beleeuing you will not excuse your enterprise you must answere to God and to all the faithfull for innouating the very roots and branches of their redemption by the bloud and death of Christ Iesus which you auouch to be vnsufficient for the ransome of our sinnes except your hell be thereto added when the Holy Ghost who should best know the trueth being the spirit of trueth hath expressed no such thing in all the Scriptures h Defenc pag. 105. li. 32. Your sixt and last maine cause is that Christ by this his bloudie sweate and ãâã praiers did nothing but voluntarily performe that bloudie offering and Priesthood ãâã in the Law This we simply grant If you should truely repeat and conceiue any part The ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã agonie of my writings you should put your selfe to more paines than you are willing to take iustly to refute it Wherefore your course is either to misrecite or to misconstrue all that you bring In the oblations of the Law which prefigured the death of Christ I obserued that not only the Sacrifice was slaine by the shedding of bloud but that the person of the Priest was sanctified as well as the sinner presented by the Priest to God with earnest and humble prayer to make atonement for the trespasse And since the trueth must haue some resemblance with the figure Christ might in the Garden performe some points requisite to his Priesthood as the sanctifying of himselfe with his owne bloud and presenting his bodie to be the redemption and remission of our sinnes with most instant and intentiue prayer for the transgressours This if you simply graunt as in wordes you say you doe tell vs now which way you will conclude Christes suffering of hell paines in the Garden from his bloudie sweat It hindereth not our assertion Much lesse doeth it further it but yet if there might be a cause of Christes voluntarie sprinckling himselfe with his owne bloud and dedicating it to Gods pleasure for mans redemption besides and without your hellish torments you will come shorter than you recken to make good your conclusion i Defenc. pag. 106. The Scriptures which you cite prooue indeed that Christ now executed his office of Priesthood but will you diuide and exempt his death on the Crosse from his Priesthood Who besides your selfe restraineth Christes euerlasting Priesthood either to the garden or to the crosse But it was one thing for Christ with feruent and submissiue prayer to present and submit his bodie which was his Sacrifice to the will of his Father as he did in the garden and another thing to receiue and admit the violent and wicked hands of the Iewes executing their rage on his bodie with all reproch and crueltie as he did on the crosse Now what had his Priesthood to do with the paines of hell since he was to present and performe the bloudie sacrifice of his bodie prefigured in the Law which he did in the garden and on the crosse And forsomuch as you grant that Christes bloudy sweat and his vehement prayers in the garden were pertinents to his Priesthood prefigured in the Law which indeed is k Hebr. 5. confirmed by the Apostle as you can shew no figure of suffering hell paines or the second death in the sacrifices of the Law no more doth either of these performed in the garden concerne any secret death of the soule which Christ there suffered from the immediate hand of God l Defenc. pag. 106. li. 14. Why say you not aswell that his death