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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A20303	A sparing restraint, of many lauishe vntruthes, which M. Doctor Harding do the chalenge, in the first article of my Lorde of Sarisburies replie. By Edward Dering student in Diuinitie. With an answere vnto that long, and vncourteous epistle, entituled to M. Juel, and set before M. Hardings Reioinder	Dering, Edward, 1540?-1576.	1568 (1568)	STC 6725; ESTC S108150	240,683	364

should abide still in those Elements S. Iohn dothe witnesse that in Christ it is accomplished what so euer was wanting in those outwarde Ceremonies And for a token of that fulnesse of grace in Christ that in him is found all that reconciliation figured in the law either by bloud or water he writeth that out of his side issued both bloud and water By the bloud he hath purged vs from our sinnes and done out the handwriting of ordinaunce that was against vs and fastened it vpon the Crosse. And that as Paule saith not by the bloud of Goates and calues but by his owne pretious bloud gushing out of his side by which he is entred into the holy place which is heauen and is become the tabernacle the sacrifice and the priest and hath obtained eternall redemption for vs. By the water we are assured that this benefite doth come vnto vs bothe bicause by water we be regenerate and also bicause it signifieth the people so that this miracle of bloud and water in the death of our sauior Christ is the performance of that which God had promised by his Prophet saying In that day shalbe a fountaine opened to the house of Dauid and to the inhabitants of Ierusalem for sinne and for vncleanesse And thus by this water and bloude gushing out of the side of our Sauior we are taught two especiall pointes of the Christian faithe the one that by Christ alone all sinnes are purged the other that in the new Testament we haue but two Sacraments the one of the Lordes death the other of Baptisme which two resembled in this bloud and water haue in them the whole mysterie of our full redemption And thus the remembrance of this same place is the greatest comfort that a Christian soule can haue in the world But Lord those Papists which peruert Gods scriptures what Doctrine haue they gathered of this comfortable saying First that we must haue water mingled with y e wine in the Chalice which in this place be it neuer so ancient yet it hath no ground at all But they goe farther than this they say that the soldiers name was Lungis bicause it is written 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 And least there should want any thing to make vp the tale they say that he was strokē blind and then by this bloud and water he receiued his sight againe and so was conuerted wherupon they haue made him a Saint and so now we may kepe the feast of S. Lungis the blinde Knight Yet sure suche canonising is worthe as little mony as these vntruthes had muche idle labor The B. of Saris. Now to reueale the secretes of M. Hardings mysteries touching the same that one drop or two must be poured on the ground Harding The .96 vntruthe The pouring of the water on the ground is no parte of our mysteries Dering When M. Harding cannot defende their too beastly vsage of Gods holy sacraments he thinketh he can salue the whole matter with Hick scorner and saying that we belie their mysteries and I pray M. Hue railer that please your self so wel with Hicke scorner is this no parte of your mysteries Can you now deny them Be ye ashamed of them It skilleth not greatly what you think of this The misterie of iniquitie that so long hath wrought in your sinagoge hath brought many moe abhominations into the Churche of God all which the Lord shall abolishe with the brightnesse of his worde Whether you make great a doe about these things héere alleaged let your Doctors be the iudges Read Scotus in sent 4. dist 11. qu. 6. Biel in 4. sent dist 11. qu. 2. in can miss lect 35. all your other Doctors entreating the same matter Yet whether one or two drops and no moe must be poured downe or no I cōfesse I do not know But why do you stand so in this point It is a very learned doubt in respect of their other folish questions Biel disputeth whether the Priest at Masse doe consecrate all the bread in the market and all the wine in the sellers and concludeth that if he stande so as he may sée it and meaneth to doe it he dothe no doubt consecrate euery whit But now aske Gabriel Biel an other question how shall the Priest doe to take all the bread in the market in his hand as the Masse booke requireth of that which shall be consecrate This is an other doubt which M. Hardings Doctors would surely haue discussed if they had heard it Scotus asketh what if the priest die before he speake all the words how shall then consecration goe forewarde Other aske what if a droppe of wine hang on the outside of the Chalice whether is that consecrate and what if the wine doe fréese in the Chalice and what if the Priest at Masse do remember that when he washt his mouth in the morning a drop of water wēt downe his throte whether should he receiue none sith he had broken his fast or whether should he let all alone Other aske whether Christ be in the Pix euen as he was on the Crosse with his clothes and crowne of thornes about his head And what should I recite all which are almost infinite A thousand such vnreuerent questions they haue disputed in whole volumes Yet now sayth M. Harding they be none of our mysteries Belike he doth yet but hobbe roue he will not go roundly with his Lord God the Pope But happy were he if as he refuseth these vaine questions so he wold renounce that whole adulterous religion The B. of Saris. Nowe it appeareth that the Churche is not yet resolued vpon one intention For the intention of the Churche of Rome is to worke transubstantiation of breade and wine the Greeke Church had neuer that intention as is plaine by the Councell of Florence The intention of the Church of Rome is to Consecrate with Christes words The intention of the Greeke Churche is to Consecrate with prayers Harding The .97 vntruth The Church is resolued vpon one intention The .98 vntruthe The church of Rome intendeth not Transubstantiation The .99 vntruth This is not plaine by the Councel of Florēce The .100 vntruthe The Greeke church dothe not consecrate vvith prayers Dering Now M. Hardings vntruthes go roundly forward If this haste may haue good spéede I warrant him his number But if this haste doe make waste he is neuer a whit the neare Let vs sée then how these vntruths are gathered The first is this The Church is agréed vpon the Priests intent But this can not be so if the Gréeke Church and the Church of Rome doe not agrée which is the .2 vntruthe And they can not agrée if the one will haue transubstantiation the other will not haue it which is the third vntruthe And they will haue the one Transubstantiation the other not if the one doe consecrate with these wordes this is my body the other with prayers which is the .4

¶ A SPARING Restraint of many lauishe Vntruthes which M. Doctor Harding dothe chalenge in the first Article of my Lorde of Sarisburies Replie By Edward Dering student in Diuinitie With an answere vnto that long and vncourteous Epistle entituled to M. Iuel and set before M. Hardings Reioinder Hieremie xxiij ¶ The Prophet that hath a dreame let him tell a dreame and he that hath my worde let him speake my worde faithfully What is chaffe to the wheat saith the Lorde ¶ Imprinted at London by Henry Denham for Humfrey Toy dwelling in Poules Church yarde at the signe of the Helmet ¶ TO THE RIGHT worshipfull Maister Thomas Wotton Esquire Edvvard Dering vvisheth all health and peace in CHRIST● AS ofte as I doe consider the estate of man here placed to accomplishe his appointed pilgrimage I remember the saying of the rightuous IO● that mannes life is a wa●fare vpon the earth But when I further see what maner of fight we haue what enimies to encounter with vs howe great of force how cankred of will how subtile in deuise how continuall in assault on the other side how weak we be of our selues ▪ I remember the saying of our sanioure Christ that if it were possible the very electe should be deceiued There is no condition without his enimie no calling without temptation no estate sure The world deceiueth those who will not see that the worlde doth pearishe The fleshe defileth other that think filthinesse to be pleasure and make vnclennesse their felicitie And where these two can not bring forth the shamelesse breache of the law of God there rageth that Dragon and olde Serpent that seducer of the world that li●r and father of lyes and he soweth cockle among good corne superstition and heresie among the seedes of obedience and good b●hauiour where of it cometh that suche as will not be partakers with SODOME and GOMORRA nor haue felowship with those rotten woundes and stinking sores that make the blaspheming of Gods holy name their honoure yet they should be drowned in wicked doctrine that by some meanes their saluation might be hindred This estate of man so muche the more to be lamented how much the lesse it is regarded would make a Christian minister to muse muche and oftentimes howe he might be a frutefull labourer in Gods vineyarde For sith the children of wrathe doe not cease to walke disobediently and with al care and studie some in example of euill life some in profession of vngodly doctrine doe allure and entice other to walke with them in their open and wide iourney of euerlasting wretchednesse how shall not the children of light according as euery one hath receiued giftes so apply their endeuoure that godlinesse and good religion might call againe the lost children vnto the narow way of euerlasting happinesse The latter dayes are come and impietie dothe abound iniquitie hath so spredde hir selfe that she is plentifull bothe in worde and deede and that not in secrecie only and in priuate assemblies but in the face of the worlde and in open wryting while some preferre the present state before eternall life other delite more in dreames than in the worde of God It behoueth therefore euery true christian in all places to rebuke sinne to set forthe Gods glory in open meetings and to maintaine his worde before the enimie knowing that his rewarde is the saluation of his owne soule and his place is prepared in the kingdome of God his father From this duety neither King nor Queene Duke nor Earle honourable nor other are exempt but euery one as he is higher in dignitie so his accompt is the greater in the day of iudgement It helpeth not the lay man to say he is no minister Where the cause is Gods we are all a chosen generation and a royall priesthode an holy nation and a peculiar people to shew forth his vertue that hath called vs out of darknesse into his maruellous light If we will not walke in this light we abide in darkenesse and in the shadow of death If we will not shew forthe his vertue we are not his chosen generation nor his peculiar people If we haue not his name wrytten in our foreheade we shall not stand among the electe with the Lambe in Mount Syon If we haue not the pleasant smel of life vnto life we haue not Gods gosple engrafted in vs. As many as be Christians haue giuen their faith vnto Christ in their baptisme vnder the witnesse of a great many They haue forsaken the flesh the world and the deuil If they wil now be at league with the sinner and at agrement with the euill doer they haue broken their first promise and they are founde vnfaithfull And for their faith thus violate giuen vnto the immortall God God againe will breake with them his couenaunt of mercie if in time they repent not This made me right worshipfull sir according to the talent which God hath giuen me so in these euill dayes to apply my laboure not doubting but that little light with which he hath endued me by his free mercy may shine through the cloudes and mistes of errour which the prince of this darknesse hath blowne abroade God turne their hearts that builde vpon his euill foundations and God encrease their number that be setters vp of vertue and zealous in the house of the Lord. And of this number bicause God hath made you one of good will desirous and of authority able to defend the profession of a christian man I could not but chuse your worship vnder whose name my little labor should appeare both for a testimonie vnto all men that you are one in whome your countrey doth reioyce and a prouocation vnto other that by your example they might learn to liue Ther be diuers that loue the worde of God and in common talke make a glorious profession but the world wil not let them go vprightly vnto the truth of the gosple There be other whose conuersation is not amisse and in ciuil behauior giue good exāple but they be so drowned in error that their estate is very lamentable they be the little flock and few in nūber that do ioyne vertue and good religion togither It is hard and laborous to fleshe and bloud and therfore we turne vs frō it The way is narow wher they are both coupled therfore few do finde it Frō the princes priuie chāber vnto the pore cottage they haue rare dwelling It would make a Christian heart to bleede to consider duely the maners of eche estate The scarlet and purple garmēts do hide and couer vnchast and vnpure bodies ▪ The ornaments of gold and siluer are had to beutifie most horrible othes good learning and wisdome are abused to al deceit and craftinesse Simplicitie and plainenesse is a cloke of many subtile cogitations Neede and pouertie are common dwelling places of muche dissolute life Truthe is well nigh forsaken and faith is almost perished from the face of the

of the Apostels heresies our sauiour Christ a Samaritan But as for your Portuise which is your light whether it be darknesse or no I craue no Arbitrer I require but triall and as Elias saide to the priests of Baal let vs take eyther our bullock and laie the péeces on our aultars and on which God sendeth fire let that be the light You haue halted to long on both sides it is now time to walke vp right Offer vp your Portuise to Maister Iuell if he proue it not a heape of lies a sincke of iniquitie a déepe dungion of blasphemouse herisies agaynst the eternall sonne of God his euerlasting priesthood we will all subscribe And for the assuraunce of our meaning we saie with the Apostle behold before God we lie not if you dare not doe this the Christian Reader must remember you are woorse then Baals prophets Consider then Maister Harding in what waters you wade and looke better what is light darknesse For the ignoraunce of gods worde the Gentiles were said to sit in darkenesse and in the shadow of death the vnbeléeuing Iewes to be blinde leaders of the blinde and he that knewe it not to go he wist not whether But the darckning of that worde hath bene your chiefest light and ignoraunce the mother of your deuotion and as in the sacrifices of Isis and Serapis you haue made Harpocrates image with his finger on his lyps in token that your misteries must be kept secrete and as the Egiptians you haue your two diuers caracters that Robin Hoode and Gui of Warwick and Beuis of Hampton such like shoulde be had of the people in english letters But the misteries of our redemption the glorious tidings of the death of Christ were in straunge figures for the hasarde of deuotion they might not be made common So that of Launcelot Dulake of Lamorake de Galis of Sir Tristram de Lyones or Marlin the Prophet we could tell many weary tales but of Paule of Peter Iames or Iohn ▪ besides the bare names not one among a hundred could tell a lyne not withstanding the continual crying of wysdome in the stréetes the callyng of our Sauiour for the sielie lyttleones O M. Hardyng this is no light It was the tyme of Dioclesian when the Scriptures were burned the abhominations of Manasses when they were hyd in the Temple the kingdome of Antiochus when they were cut in péeces and to compare lyke with lyke your Antichristian iurisdiction where they are kept in couert Wherin you shew that great plague to rest vpō you which who so heareth eyther eare shall tingle that you haue the famine of the woord of God When the cogitacion of mās hart euen from hys youth was euyll the worlde ouerrun w t couetousnesse God purged that iniquitie with his drowning waters when the crie of Sodome and Gomor did ascende to heauen God quenched their filthie lustes wyth fire and brimstone the frowardnesse of hys people the breach of his lawes the bloud of hys prophetes with pestilence famine banishments such other sundrie and diuers plagues but the death of hys onely heire wyth the letting out of the Uineyard to others and the bloud of hys beloued Sonne with the scourge of ignoraunce that vnto this daie they beleue not his glorious Gospel And how must the Popes kingdom néedes tremble feare that acknowledgeth the punishments of Christes death to maintaine their religion Now for our deliuerie from the maintenaunce of darkenes S. Paul biddeth vs not beleue an Angel of heauen that bringeth an other Gospell therefore we dare not be led with any blinde custome to shadowe the same light we haue receiued If you shall otherwyse be alway minded I se in an Etnick hart the effect of that etnicks praier virtutem vt videant intabes●antque relicta that you might sée vertue and pine away with want of it After this foloweth a sober excuse that Maister Harding maketh of him selfe that although through infirmitie he oftentimes offend yet in matters of faith he hath no peruerse iudgement The reason is bicause he doth submit him self to the church of Rome ▪ Much better this argument would hold the other way bicause he is in the church of Rome he is in all filthinesse superstition of a sinfull lyfe and of a corrupt religion hauing the heauie hand of God ouer him that except he repent the same woe shall light vppon him which so vnwisely he hath deriued to other Hardyng ¶ This matter is well to be weighed the case you stand in is deeplie to be considered This much you cannot denie you haue for your parte broken the vnitie that is so much commended vnto vs in the scriptures and all holy fathers The Catholicke churche sayth Saint Cyprian can be one it can not be cut and deuided a sunder The catholicke Churche alone is the bodie of Christ saith S. Augustine whereof he is the head the sauiour of his bodie Without hys body the holye Ghost giueth life to none Therefore in an other place he saith whosoeuer is seperat from the catholick churche how lawdable so euer he thinketh himselfe to liue for this onely wickednesse that he is deuided from the vnity of Christ he shall not haue lyfe but the wrath of God remaineth vpon him Dering Here is a sad admonition concerning the catholike Churche which we acknowledge to be the bodie of Christ and he the onely heade of it so that without it there is no saluation But for the triall of this Church we go to the Scriptures and doe examine ech spirit whether he be of God or no and such as saie they be Apostles and be none we haue founde them lyars therefore we run out from among them as out of the middest of Babilon out of their wicked assemblies and donne of théeues from their abominations of Moab and spirituall fornications and ar come againe to our merciful Father that hath prepared his fatlings for vs and put on vs our wedding garment and placed vs at his great Supper in the felowship of his church where we abide thorough his mercie and looke for our resolucion that our ioy maie be full And for our assurance to be of that number we haue the warrāt of the Scriptures first for that we harken onely to Christ and heare not the voice of any stranger then for that we confesse that they alone can saue our soules And as S. Paul saith can make the man of God perfit to all good workes And considering that Prophecie came not in the olde time by the wyll of man but holie men of God spake as they were mooued by y e holy ghost we dare not admit any priuate interpretation but take héede vnto the worde as vnto a light that shineth in a darke place for that is the daye starre which is risen in our harts Therefore we presume not to vnderstand aboue that which

Apostle commeth iudgement Here is no colour of shift least except they wil say after death that is when the generall daie of iudgement shall bée And if this might serue then had they somewhat to saye But S. Iohn hath preuented such wrestinge of scriptures After death as he teacheth is immediatly as soone as we be with God for this he writeth Blessed ar the deade which dye in the Lorde from henceforth saith the spirit they rest from their labour No labour abideth any more for them after death immediatlye they are receiued into ioy and their workes doe follow them And this present ioy of the godlye is likewyse specified where the same Apostle writeth that an hundred fourty and foure thousand did stande with the lambe in y e mount Sion meaning the elect which wer w t Christ in his kingdome An hundreth such other places there are in the scripture which testifie of our estate after death and do quite ouerthrowe the Popes purgatory Nowe for the better contentation of the Reader it were worth the labour to answere to al those places of the scripture in which they make so many blinde gesses at purgatory The places are Math. 5.26 c. 12.32 c. 18 34. Luc. 12.59.16.19 l. Co. 3.15 Phil. 2.10 Apo. 5.15 But read these places who list in the feare of God and true desire of knowledge he can by no imaginations haue one gesse at purgatory and yet for the establishing of such a doctrine it had bene requisite they could haue shewed euen the name for the interpretation of other men be they neuer so olde We may saye with the Apostle Euery man aboundeth in his own vnderstanding but no man knoweth the thinges that are Gods saue God alone and his woorde if we will not be deceiued must be our onelye guider But they haue one place 2. Mach. 12.44 in plaine words that it is good to pray for the dead if that booke be of able autority We rede likewise of one Razias an Elder of Ierusalem which first ran vpon his own sworde and when he missed of his stroke he ranne to the top of the wall and threwe him selfe downe among the multitude and yet hauing life in him went to the top of an highe rocke and pulled out his owne bowels and threwe them among the enimies and for this doing he is commended So by the authoritye of the same booke a man maye kill himselfe which Maister Harding him selfe I trowe will not constantly affirme yet this being scripture it might not be doubted Againe the same author saith If I haue done well and as the story requireth it is the thing that I desired But if I haue spoken slenderly and basely it is that I coulde These Iffes and Andes are not of that spirit which hath written the scriptures Thus doubting of his own ability besemeth not the holy ghost Beside this the gréeke in the same place is so corrupt that scarce any sense coulde be made of it And Ioseph ben Gorion out of whom that story semeth to be gathered in the same place doth quite leaue out this praying for the dead But it maye be that in those dayes some ignoraunt Iewes vpon an vnwyse deuotion did thinke it good to praye for the deade and likewise to praye againe vnto them that they would helpe vs. Which if it were so by such meanes this place might come into the Machab. And that some did thinke thus thoughe they were alwayes otherwyse instructed it appereth by one manifest place which is read in Philo Iudeus where he writeth the death of Debora who made a godly exhortatiō to hir people before she dyed For afterward they should finde no repentaunce There some made aunswere vnto hir Ecce nunc mater moreris ora itaque pro nobis post recessum tuum erit anima tua memor nostri in sempiternum Praye for vs after thy departure and let thy soule be mindefull of vs for euer To whom Debora maketh aunswere Adhuc viuens homo potest orare et pro se pro filijs suis post finē autem non poterit exorare nec memor esse alicuius yet while a man is liuing he may pray for him selfe and for his children but whan he is deade he can neyther intreate nor be mindeful of any And it followeth your similitude then shal be like the starres of heauen which are now manifest in you Hereby we sée what iudgement the common people mighte haue in such matters And yet howe the godly did otherwise instruct them reade this place thou shalt finde it so plaine that no wrangling may shift it of but nedes we must confesse that it teacheth vs that we ought neither to praye vnto saintes to help vs neyther yet agayne can we helpe them when they be gone Wherby it appeareth what manner of archer Maister Harding hath ben that could not shoote at so plaine a marke But he did shoote at his own dreames and so he lighted on Purgatorie Yet there follow a great many of markes at the which M. Hardyng could neuer shoote home The first is that the masse and our Communion is one wyth that marke sayth he I was neuer acquaynted Hys loose without doubt is very ill or he shooteth to low a compasse or else he draweth not close For M. Stapleton that shooteth with the same bow and arrowes hitteth this marke euen at the first The Masse and the Communion saith he duelye ministred is all one and it is folly to thinke any contradiction betwéene the Communion and the Masse Thus it appeareth M. Harding is a verye wrangler that wyll not shoote at that marke which his owne fellowes finde An other marke that M. Harding could neuer shoote at is this that Eucharistia doth signifie not the Sacrament but common bread I maruail he could neuer shoote at this marke For sith he began first that babling aunswere to M. Iuels learned Challenge he hath alwaye bene hobbing among those marks wher this is one though he neuer shot at the selfe same yet hath he seldome shot but at such like For it is a marke of slaundering and a marke of lying at whych marke as well in this Reioynder as other where M. Harding most commonly doth shoote very nere I neuer said saith he that Eucharistia was common breade but the sacrament This marke I could neuer sée In déede no maruail for who can well sée the thing that is not But you father this saying vpon Maister Iuell which reporte is all togither vntrue and slaunderous and in shootinge at this marke you drawe maruailous cleane and haue good deliuery be it prickes or rouers you haue measured the ground so oft that you knowe what to shoote But I pray you M. Harding where sayth M. Iuell thus What be his woordes Wher are they to be foūd Thinke you notwithstanding your oft vntrue demeanour that you can discredite your aduersary vpon your bare word The