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A49373 Persecution detected in all his new forms: or, A dialogue between Nimrod policy, and Nathanael innocency Wherein persecution is followed and detected in his chiefest tabernacles; being packing apace out of his old g[...]bs of presbytery into his swept and garnisht forms of independency and the water-way: wherein is shewed the originall, and name, and interest of policy, with many of his assistants; and also of innocency: with the epitome of a true Christian: also several considerable queres touching God, his word, his essence; and Christ, and his works in man; as touching heaven, and hell, and sin, and the sabbath &c. of Moses; touching the true rest and centre of a Christian. By John Lane, late quartermaster to Sir Hardresse Wallers regiment. Lane, John, quartermaster. 1652 (1652) Wing L338; ESTC R213607 17,333 26

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as hate them But Christians do blesse them that curse them and do good to such as despightfully use them and speak all manner of evill of them besides a Christian is truly inlarged with bowells of meeknesse and compassion to all under oppression or wrath or darknesse is acted to the ful in that love Paul speaks of 1 Cor. 13. 4. to 7. he vaunteth not himself above his fellow creatures he envieth not any for any thing he thinketh no evill he rejoyceth not in iniquity or in the disparity or inequality that is in the world that some are mighty and others miserable that 's for sinners he believeth all things beareth all things hopeth all things endureth all things is far from persecuting any for Opinion or delivering them to the divell as they call it for it or into his prisons and dungeons He is one that useth the world as though he used it not and buyeth as if he possessed not and although he be married it is as if he were not he being a child of God and so a child of the Resurrection and one that is worthy to obtain that world that is in subjection to man they can die no more death hath no more dominion over them Luke 20. 3. 4. 35. 36. He wil not be found doing that which Christ saith he shal find the world doing viz. as they did in the daies of Noah when he should appear in power and spirit Luke 17. 24. 26 27 28. Mat. 24. 38. the children of this world only doing so Luke 20. 34. the Christian seeth that in Christ there is no distinction of Iew nor Greek neither bond nor free neither MALE NOR FEMALE for ye are all ONE in Christ Jesus Gal. 3. 28. Col. 3. 11. Christ is all and in all But to conclude Mr. Policy because I will not weary your patience with this kind of discourse a true Christian hath for his further direction pure innocency as the Scripture saith as a Dove his eye being single his body being full of light Pol. Innocency though many of thy characters of a Christian be strange to me and may prove dangerous to worldly wisdome with all it's interests and relations and protectors yet J cannot but say there are very gallant truths in thy words J wish the world were able to beare them as J am but J must desire thee to draw towards a conclusion at the present and J shall gladly have more discourse with thee at some other time for now J am in hast having many publike matters in hand Jnno Mr. Policy that J shall and J must tell you J am very much ingaged to you that you have so patiently heard me all this while your moderation wil do you no hurt but I intreat you to take some Quaeres from me touching some particulars that J should be glad you were rightly satisfied in which J shall leave you to consider of against our next meeting Pol. Innocency that I shall willingly entertain but prethee be brief because I have much businesse what are thy Quaeces Jnno My first is touching the Father 1. Quaere whether the Almighty Iehovah be not omnipotent omnipresent uncircumscribed and omniscient 2. Whether all the severall kinds of things are not in all their varieties and multiplications the productions of the Unity 3. Whether there be any enterval emptinesse or vacuity between the Creator and creatures and if there be any thing between them then what it is for matter form substance or shape 4. Whether that which is called the Spirit of God in Scriptures be not truly of the essence of God 5. Whether that called the Spirit of God in men be not of his essence 6. Where the essence of God is circumscribed if it be so Secondly Touching Christ 7. Whether Christ as a manifestation of the Father according to number be not him that was is and is to come the yesterday to day and for ever the beginner and terminator of time the Alpha and Omega the principium finis the primus ultimus that is the beginning and end the first and last the all and in all the only Champion of the Father the doer of all his saving work and the reconciler of all things to God and also that which was manifest to destroy all diabolicallnesse darknesse sin hell death or whatever lets in his Kingdome of love joy peace c. that are the effects of mans own vain knowing imaginations Eccl. 7. 29. 8. Whether all Christs work were compleated in his humanity at Jerusalem 9. Whether Christ hath not destroyed ever since the serpent hath built or whether the evill hath been longer then Christ the Unction 10. Whether Christ had not enemies before he appeared in the humanity at Jerusalem 11. What appearance of Christ that was that Scriptures speak of to have been in the daies of Noah 1 Pet. 3. 19. and to be that rock the Is raelites followed that they eat and drank of 1 Cor. 10. 4. 12. What Christ that is that is said to be in men the hope of glory and to be formed in them and to be in them except they be Reprobates Col. 1. 27. Gel. 4. 19. 2 Cor. 13. 5. Thirdly Touching the Word of God 13. Whether there be any thing in Scripture called the Word of God but God himself that made the world that is spirit and life and only quick and powerfull and able to divide between joynts and marrow or whether any thing be the essentiall Word but God 1 Joh. 1. 2. 14. Whether the Word God be not the only truth that needs no interpreter but himself that in himself is the only determiner of all controversies amongst men that in his time will shew who is the only King of Kings and Lord of Lords and to be that truth that shall make us free not like that called truth which is made the only bond 15. Whether the letter of Scriptures be of any advantage to men except the quicking word of power be like the day Star arisen in them where by they experiment those teachings of God in themselves that was in them that write the Scriptures 16. Whether the Scripture misunderstood hath not been made the instrument of the murther and oppression of many millions of poor harmleste creatures and the engine of all the tyranny in Europe c. Fourthly Touching the Divell and Hell 17 Whether the Devil God blesse us be a corporeall and elementary essence yea or no with great clawes and eys as many country people have believed 18 What and where the Hell and torments so much feared by sinners are whether it be in any locall place on the superficies of the terrestriall world or in the centre of it or in the consciences of sinners under wrath and darknesse Fifthly Touching Heaven c. 19 Whether there be not Heaven to be had in man that is quickened together with Christ and set together with him in heavenly places Eph. 2. 5 6. 20. What
PERSECUTION detected in all his new FORMS OR A DIALOGUE BETWEEN Nimrod Policy and Nathanael Innocency WHEREIN Persecution is followed and detected in his chiefest Tabernacles being packing apace out of his old Garbs of Presbytery into his swept and garnisht Forms of Independency and the Water-way Wherein is shewed the Originall and name and Interest of Policy with many of his Assistants and also of Innocency With the Epitome of a true Christian Also severall considerable Queres touching God his Word his Essence and Christ and his Works in man as touching Heaven and Hell and Sin and the Sabbath c. of Moses touching the true Rest and Centre of a CHRISTIAN By John Lane late Quartermaster to Sir Hardresse Wallers Regiment Gal. 4. 29. But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit even so it is now Thes. 2. 15. 16. Who both killed the Lord Jesus and their own Prophets and have persecuted us and they please not God and are contrary to all men Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved to fill up their sins alway for the wrath is come upon than to the uttermost London Printed for the Author and are to be sold at the Black-Moore neer Fleet-bridge 1652. To all my Friends and Enemies of what Opinion soever they be Deare Hearts THis is the first time I have appeared a fool in print although very often other wayes ye suffer fools gladly I might have been thought otherwise had I held my tongue For silence is more safe then speech when enemies be auditors I shall not go about by rhetoricall phrases to beg thy good opinion of the ensuing Dialogue For if I were able to do it I would not for the more Writings are so dressed the lesse they sauour of true meaning All that I desire is that you read consider and moderately judge and wherein I am too prolix abridge it in your thoughts and wherein I am too short inlarge it in your thoughts for they are not so chargeable as words neither so dangerous My intentions in this promiscuous Pamphlet were not to offend any that are conscientious if it be of an idoll for I have been blinder then I am but to detect that subtill enemy of the Creations peace Persecution as also the violent humours of some of his tabernacles and their designes 〈…〉 All that I shall say to you more at present is to desire any that may be offended to do as some have formerly said if so it must be only to hate my opinions but not my person the same that I used to reply unto them when I suffered under Presbyters for water-Baptism I shall now unto you viz. If my opinions be that which you so hate and would persecute those I will give you either in paper or parchment and do with them what you please imprison hang or burn them but let my person alone and then I shall believe you onely hate my opinions But if a 〈…〉 Sycophant or Crocodilian or Cameleon Pharisee that is a fault-finder who sees not the beam in his own eye shall cast dirt in my face by reason of my affliction the Almighty hath suffered me to undergo in the world let all such know that although I must confesse I have much gone astray from truth yet I am able to cast off any dirt that envy hath or may cast on me and to appeare if I would with as large a menstruous garment of my own righteousnesse as some others although I had rather glory in my infirmities and sufferings for God in whom I have peace though in the world I may have trouble and rest Yours J. L. A Dialogue between NIMROD POLICY AND NATHANAEL INNOCENCY Policy SIr you are well met your grave feature and contemplative gesture invites my desire to have some discourse with you whilest our time will permit Innocency Sir J am willing to discourse but very unable besides Sir by your Mars-like physiognomy and habit you to be a souldier and therefore J shall be cautious of speaking what otherwaies J might very freely because J have heard that many souldiers are notable Politicians and are very cruell to any that differ from them if it be but in opinion and have used many very cruelly for it besides J do hear there are many Decoys go abroad who have all the dimensions of speaking allowed them on purpose to catch others and to make them offenders for words but Sir if you will ingage to me to take no advantage against me for words J shall discourse with you so far as J am able and may with safety Policy Sir J shall ingage to you my honor that J will not take any advantage of you for words be they what they will J can bear them only J advise you for your own sake to speak no treason or blasphemy Innocency Sir that I shall although J scarce know what treason or blasphemy is it is no treason is it Sir to say when Christ hath put down all Rule Authority and Power he will surrender the Kingdome to the father and God shall be all in all 1 Cor. 15. Pol. Sir J have nothing to say to that because it's Scripture but pray Sir give me your name Countrey and interests in these promiscuous 〈…〉 stracted times for for ought J know you may be more a Decoy ●hen J. Inno. To avoid your suspition of me I shall because time is short and I believe you affect brevity give you my name and Countrey but my interest you shall know another time when we have more leisure Pol. Well Sir go on what is your name and Countrey c. Innoc. Sir my name is Innocency of kin to that which Scriptures report to have been in the primitive estate of man in which estate he was upright and knew no good nor evill and was then free from all that either internally as to conscience or externally as to bondage oppression or wrath hath seized on the Creations peacefull naturall harmony propriety which now they groan under and will not be eased of but when they shall attain the glorious liberty of the Sons of God and the first Resurrection viz. above and from all that's sin death hell divells or darknesses the effects of mans vain imaginary work or torments mentall c. But Sir as touching my Countrey it is Sion not Sina wrath smoke darknesse the City of the living Jehovah which is the centre of the first born that have ceased from their own work of menstruous righteousnesse and superficiall holinesse and have resigned up their wills into the Divine Will where they truly see God to be all and in all the spirituall perfect ones only living there in that life who walk with God and are not as to any fleshly serpentine glory or wisdome of this world the world to come being in subjection to them in Christ and Christ in them the hope of greater glory where none that
or not such as know the spirit of the people and can conform unto them these I affect most if I might have my will such men as are for toleration of Opinions for I see the people generally affect true liberty and to be free from all oppressions and besides I tell thee plainly I have been in some straights touching formality how to please many fiery spirits for many of them are very confident in their way although I see little Scripture or reason for their forms for I see throrough them all for as they are used they serve only to beget envy and strife amongst men and do hinder universall love I 'le tell thee Innocency now I do suspect M. Persecution to be an Impostor and I fear he may do by me if I should use him as he hath done by his former Tabernacles viz. miserably distract me if not destroy me by serving me almost as bad as the Divell was said to do by the hogs Inno. Well Mr. Policy I am glad you are so moderate of late you have not long been so I am glad you begin to open your eys a little you may see your self more e're it be long for truth and innocency may be more owned for God doth shake both the earth and heavens of mans building which are laid in the serpentine principle but Sir I thank you for your patience in hearing my verball imbecility I hope you will not make me an offender for a word and Sir if I might not be further tedious to you I should desire we might epitomize a true Christian that is so in power and not in word and shew only Pol. Well Innocency go on to shew what such a Christian is Inno. Sir that I shall briefly and where I am short I desire you to inlarge in your thoughts 1. A right Christian is one that is one with Christ as Christ is one with the Father Joh. 17. 21. Heh. 2. 11. 1 Joh. 4. 17. 2. From this Union he is reconciled to God in all things and in all the variety and multiplicity of appearances he seeth but one God and sees all the varieties of things in their severall species be they of rationalls animalls and vegetables or celestial or terrestiall essences with their severall complections constitutions and degrees of heat cold drought or moysture with their several actions that are of God features motions and gestures to be the productions of the Unity whether sinister so called or direct with all their altitudes and profundities and latitudes and longitudes if so I may speak the Ens entium omnipotent over all thorow all and in all things besides he seeth all dispensations administrations manifestations and operations are to bring to the perfect Unity of the Son Ephes. 4. 13. 1 Cor. 12. 4. 27. 14. he seeing that the severall members are but one body besides he cannot see any vacuity between Creator and creature not understanding what should be betwixt them to speak after the manner of men 3. He is one that through Christ dwelling in him doth see the Enmity slain and hath gotten victory over all that did torment him mentally and also over much corporall slavery having conquered the old man Sin with Antichrist Hell Death c. and seeth no let in the holy mountain Sion 4. He being one that so far as he is born of God doth not sin nor can sin 1 Joh. 3. 9. Heb. 9. 14. 10. 22. he is in conscience purged from sin he seeth Christ appearing the second time without sin unto him Heb. 10. 26. 28. and the Lamb that taketh away the sin of the world for else he must have lesse power then the scape-goat under Moses Deut. 16. 20. 24. that ran away with the sins of Israel once a year and the bringer in of everlasting righteousnesse Dan. 9. 24. his own where sin shal be no more he being the finisher of it besides he seeth that Law made nothing perfect as to conscience but the bringing in of a better hope by and in Christ did by which he is nigh unto God having his heart sprinkled from an evill conscience being innocent as a dove 5. He is one that Col. 2. 20. v. 1. is dead with Christ to the rudiments of the world and therefore doth not live in them as subject to Ordinances in will-worship being risen with Christ and set together with him in heavenly places far above Principalities and Powers and Might c. and Dominion at the right hand of the high Majesty 6. And Sir to be brief a right Christian after he hath been acted through the variety of appearances and hath been led through the severall gradations of Christs Kingdome viz. of love joy peace c. and when Christ in him hath put down all Rule Authority and ●ower and slain all devision and distinction of the wrath and beastial principle then the Kingdome and Dominion is surrendred to the Father and then the creatures will is wholly resigned into the Divine Will and is only acted by it it being then in it's own centre the end having found the beginning he being meerly passive neither willing nor desiring not joying nor sorrowing but has then found all and for ought I know may do all when he is centricall but this few attain unto the beastial principle is so predominant Pol. I should let thee go on further to character a Christian as to his spirituall interest but that I fear there are some who like the Jewes Paul spake of 1 Thes. 2. 15. 16. who please not God and are contrary to all men may persecute such appearances of Christ in any and call it blasphemy therefore prethee leave such high things and speak something to a Christians practise amongst men in the world Inno. Sir I thank you for your Caution for though I would be as innocent as a Dove yet I may be as wise as a Serpent especially if I meet with such pharisaical Foxes therefore I shall hint some things that are practised to the world by a Christian and if you shall please afterwards J shall propose some Questions unto you as a ground for further discourse at some other time but Sir J shall go on A Christian doth make that sure Christian Maxim in Christianity viz. of doing as they would be done unto in all cases his rule and practise conscience being the chief Arbitrator And he doth really practise this rule in doing well to any in misery whether they be of any Church or not so long as he hath it He doth also practise this rule in all matters of sin against himself whether it be anger wrath malice strife debate envy slander or what ever and doth put conscience to the test doth any one thus abuse me and do I the same to them again then saith conscience you do but as you have been done by and not as you would be done by if you should so offend against others sinners do love such as love them and hate such