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A41215 Pian piano, or, Intercourse between H. Ferne, Dr. in divinity and J. Harrington, Esq. upon occasion of the doctors censure of the Common-wealth of Oceana. Ferne, H. (Henry), 1602-1662. 1656 (1656) Wing F797; ESTC R5270 19,316 78

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father Jeroboam an Arrant knave breaking the Empire of Rehoboam a hair-brain'd fool in two pieces whence the children of Judah turning Sodomites a King 14. 24. and they of Israel Idolaters You have Baasha conspiring against Nadab King of Israel murthering him destroying all the Posterity of Jeroboam and reigning in his stead Zimri Captain of the Chariots serving Asa the son with the same sauce when he was drunk killing all of his kinred that pissed againg the Wall as Baasha the father had done Nadab when may chance he was sober Omri hereupon made Captain by the people and Zimri after he had reigned seven daies burning himself The people of Israel when Zimri was burnt dividing into two parts one for Omri and the other for Tibni who is slain in the dispute whereupon Omri out-does all the Tyrants that went before him and when he has done leaves Ahab his son the heir of his Throne and virtue You have Jehu destroying the Family of Ahab giving the flesh of Jezebel unto the dogs and receiving a pretty Present from those of Samaria seventy heads of his Masters sons in Baskets To Asa and Jehoshaphat of the Kings of Judah belongeth much reverence but the wickedness of Athalia who upon the death of her son Ahaziah that shee might reign murthered all her Grand children but one stoln away which was Joash was repaid by that one in the like coin who also was slain by his servants so was his son Amastah that reigned after him and about the same time Zachariah King of Israel by Shallum who reigned in his stead and Shallum was smitten by Manahim who reigned in his stead Battail Royal in Shoo-lane Pekahah the son of Manahim was smitten by Pekah one of his Captains who reigned in his room Pekah by Hoshea who having reigned Nine years in his stead was carried by Salmanezer King of Assyria with the Ten Tribes into Captivity Will Judah take a warning Yes Hezekiah the next is a very good King but Manasseh his son like the rest a shedder of innocent blood to him succeedeth Ammon fathers own child who is slain by his servants Josiah once again is a very good King but Jehoahaz that died by the heels in Egypt deserv'd his end nor was Jehoiakim the brother of the former who became Tributary unto Pharaoh any better In whose Reign his successor Zedechia's was Judah led into Captivity by Nebuchadnezzar the common end of battail Royal where I leave any man to judge how far the unity of a person tends to the unity of Government and whether the temptations of advancing to use your Phrase were greater in the Commonwealth or in the Monarchies of the Hebrews It were easie to shew if you had not enough already that the High Priests when they came to be Princes were never a barrel better herring whereas that there is no such work in Venice Switz or Holland you both know and might if you did not wink as easily see All 's one It is for it is as you have said nay and more in all forms that have been Popular or shall be still the Temptations are more powerful and dangerous as to the change of Government this put them upon great inconveniences by often changing their Generals of Armies A pound of Clergy for which take an ounce of wisdome in this Maxim evinced by Machiavel Prolongation of Magistracy is the ruine of popular Government The not often changing their Generals or Dictators was the bane of the Common-wealths both of Rome and of Israel as by the corruption of Samuel's sons Moss that groweth not upon a roling stone is apparent And for the banishment of Great Men Name me one that since those Governments were settled hath been banished from Venice Switz or Holland The Examples in Rome are but two that can be objected by a rational man in Seven hundred years and I have answered those in my Book For the Ostracisme though I hold it a foolish Law yet where the people have not had the prudence to found their Government upon an Agrarian I shew'd you out of Reason Aristotle and experience that it is a shift they will be put to whether a punishment or not Though no man that is versed in the Greek story can hold it to have been so esteem'd The fifth Quaere Whether Men as they become richer or poorer free or servile be not of a different Genius or become new modeld and whether these things happen not as the ballance changes The Doctors Answer SVch suddain changes of the Genius and Nature of Men I leave to the Pipe of Orpheus or Ovids Metamorphosis Reply A Pretty jeer but there is one in that Book metamorphosed into the Bird that cannot see by day Now a change that happens in the Revolution of one hundred and forty years is not suddain but so long hath the Government in question been changing from Aristocratical to popular and if the Acts of popular Councils from that time have still been and be to this hour more and more popular the Genius of the people is as cleer as the day with the alteration of it in those opinions you in your first Letter are pleased to call the ignorance or wilfulnesse of these daies that since the Aristocratical ballance of the Clergy is gone shake the yoak of the Priest The Butcher sought his Knife and had it in his mouth The sixth Quaere Whether Gentlemen have been more beholding unto Divines or Men in Orders or Divines more beholding unto Gentlemen or such as have not been in Orders for the knowledge which we have of the Commonwealth of the Hebrews or who of each sort have written best upon that Subject The Doctor's Answer COmparisons being Odious I onely say Divines have cause to give learned Gentlemen their due and thanke for their labours but also cause to complain when they are too bold with holy things not onely with the Commonwealth of the Hebrews the Forme that God then appointed but also with the Government of the Christian Church the form and functions left by Christ and his Apostles according to which the Church acted three hundred years before the Civil power became Christian Reply DIvines have cause to complain when Gentlemen are too bold with holy things as with the Commonwealth of the Hebrews but if you ask who of each sort have written best upon this Subject Comparisons aae odious here you can be modest for no body hath written in this kind but Carolus Sigonius Buxtorfius Cornelius Bertramus Hugo Grotius Selden and Cunaeus all which were Gentlemen or such as were not in Orders Nor can it be gathered from any thing now extant that any Divine understood this Government But if Divines cannot deal with this Government and Gentlemen may not how should it be known or if Divines understand not this why do they meddle with others The seventh Quaere What and how many be those little things and poor mistakes which the Author below a Gentleman of his