with the same Medicine that some have cured sick persons with holy Bread and Oyl which indeed is the most likely of them all as being good Food and good Medicine And although not so much as a Chicken is now a days cured of the Pip by holy Water yet upon all Occasions they use it and the common people throw it upon Childrens Cradles and sick Cows horns and upon them that they think bewitched or blasted and if they recover by any means it is imputed to the Holy-water and so the Simplicity of Christian Religion the glory of our Dependance upon God and the Holiness and mystery of Sacraments are disordered and dishonour'd Thus the Israelites did when they fell to Idolatry they joyned themselves to Baal Peor and eat the Sacrifices of the dead thus they provoked him to anger with their Inventions Psal 106.28 29. and v. 39. Thus were they defiled with their own Works and went a whoring with their own Inventions Child Is there any thing else that they teach of the Sacraments to be observed Father Yes There is yet one great Instance more of their Irreligion they are taught to rely upon the Sacraments with so little of moral and vertuous Dispositions that the Efficacy of one is made to lessen the Necessity of the other and the Sacraments are taught to be so effectual by an inherent Vertue that they are not so much made the Instruments of Vertue as the Supplement not so much to encrease as to make amends for the want of Grace contrary to that of the Apostle Whosoever shall eat this Bread and drink this Cup of the Lord unworthily shall be guilty of the Body and Blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself and so let him eat of that Bread and drink of that Cup 1 Cor. 11.27 28. Child By this I suppose they do not think Repentance is needful to fit and prepare us for the Lords-table I pray Sir what do they teach concerning that Duty Father They are so loose in the Doctrine of Repentance that you cannot imagine it I shall therefore shew you what we and they teach concerning that Duty and conclude this Discourse Child I pray Sir first shew me then what we teach concerning Repentance Father Our Protestant Doctors teach that Repentance is an inward and true sorrow for Sin especially that we have offended so gracious a God and so loving a Father together with a settled purpose of Heart and a careful endeavour to leave all our Sins and to live a Christian Life according to all God's Commandments The Sacrifices of God are a broken Spirit a broken and a contrite Heart O God thou wilt not despise Ps 51.17 Child How is this Grace wrought in us Father 'T is wrought in us partly by the threatning of the Law and the fear of God's Judgments but especially increased by feeling the Fruit of Christ's Death whereby we have power to hate Sin and to leave it Child Wherein doth Repentance properly consist Father In a through changing of our purpose and desires from the Evil which God's word rebuketh in us to the good which it requireth of us Child Can men repent of themselves or when they list Father No for it is the gift of God given to them that are born again Child When is this Repentance to be practised Father The practice of Repentance ought to be a continual abhorring of Evil and cleaving unto that which is good for as much time as remains in the Flesh after our Confusion yet at some times there ought to be a more special practice and renewing thereof as after grievous Falls as we see in David Psal 51. and in fear of eminent Judgments which the Prophet calls for Amos 4.12 Because I will do this unto thee prepare to meet thy God O Israel Or when we should fit our selves to receive special mercies as when we come to the Lord's Table c. Child You have shewed me the Protestant Doctrine of Repentance I pray God give me Grace to practise it all the dayes of my life But I pray Sir Do not the Papists teach the same Father No. They teach 1. That a Sinner is not bound to repent of his Sin presently if it be done at any time 't is sufficient Some say he is bound by the Precept of the Church to repent upon the great Holidays others say once a year at Easter but 't is the general opinion that by the Law of God they are not tied to so much but only to repent in the danger or Article of Death from whence some conclude that to refuse to repent is but a venial sin but others say 't is none at all Child This seems to me to be intolerable Have they any more such Doctrines Father Alas Child this is but the beginning of sorrows The next thing therefore that I shall mention is their Doctrines concerning Contrition which when it is true and cordial for having sinn'd against God the the Church of Rome does not allow it to be of any value unless it be joyn'd with a desire to confess their Sins unto a Priest and this is decreed by the Councel of Trent contrary to all Scripture to the Doctrine of the Prophets Ezek. 18.30 Repent and turn your selves from all your Transgressions so Iniquity shall not be your ruine to the Doctrine of the Apostles Repent and be converted that your sins may be blotted out Act. 3.19 But this is not all for as Contrition without Confession will not reconcile us to God so Attrition as they call it proceeding from fear of damnation together with their Sacrament will do as well There is no necessity of Contrition at all If a man live a wicked life 60 or 80 years together yet if in the Article of his Death he be but a little sorrowful for his Sins and though this Sorrow hath in it no love of God but only a fear of Hell if the Priest absolves him he passes him instantly into a state of Salvation The Priest with two fingers and a thumb can do his work for him in a moment Child Vpon these terms it is a wonder that all wicked men in the World are not Papists where they may live so merrily and dye so securely but is not Confession a troublesome thing to them Father Not at all They have an easie formal way of it I confess unto Almighty God to the Blessed V. Mary to blessed Michael the Archangel to blessed Jo. Baptist to the Holy Apostles Peter and Paul to all the Saints and to you my Ghostly Father that I have very much sinned in thought word and deed through my fault through my fault through my exceeding great fault Therefore I beseech thee B. Virgin Mary blessed Michael the Archangel blessed John Baptist the holy Apostles Peter and Paul all the Saints and you my Ghostly Father to pray unto our Lord God for me And when they see Princes and Prelates Women and Boyes do the same every
and they ring a Bell to give the People notice of it that they may adore it If any of the People receive which is very seldome they must not touch it with their hands but the Priest must put it into their mouths and there it must dissolve These and many other such like Ceremonies are made Articles of Faith Child But did Christ ordain none of those Rites Father No. John came baptizing with Water John 1.31 The Eunuch said to Philip here is water what doth hinder me to be baptized Acts 8.36 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered to you saith St. Paul 1 Cor. 11.25 That the Lord Jesus the same night that he was betray'd took Bread and when he had given thanks he brake it and said Take eat this is my Body which is broken for you this do in remembrance of me They do neither break the Bread nor suffer the People to take or eat it Child I have heard enough of this I pray Sir proceed to the fifth Father I also embrace and receive all and several the things which have been defined and declared in the Sacred and holy Synod of Trent concerning Original Sin and Justification Child What Doctrines do they hold concerning Original Sin and Justification Father The things declared and defined by the Councel of Trent concerning Original Sin and Justification are too many to be here recited They teach that Concupiscence is no sin after Regeneration that 't is washed away by Baptism That the first motions thereof is no sin Concerning Justification they declare that we are Justified by Works that good Works are meritorious nay that there be Works of supererogation whereby the Saints do merit not onely for themselves but for others and out of the superabundant Merits of Christ and the Saints the Treasure of the Church is made up which the Pope hath power to dispence to vvhom he please vvhich brings him in great Treasure Child But what doth the Scripture say to these things Father David confesseth his Original Sin as the Root and Fountain of all Sin Psal 51.5 Behold I was shapen in iniquity and in sin did my Mother conceive me And St. Paul complains of it Rom. 7.18 I know that in me that is in my flesh dwelleth no good thing for to vvill is present vvith me but hovv to perform that vvhich is good I knovv not Child But are we not justified by our Works Father No Child We are justified freely by his Grace through the Redemption that is in Jesus Christ Rom. 3.24 v. 27.28 Where is boasting then it is excluded by what Law of Works Nay but by the Law of Faith Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by Faith without the Deeds of the Law Child If we are not justified by Works then certainly we cannot merit by them Father You say well and the same Christ teaches us in the Gospel Luke 17.10 When you shall have done all those things that are commanded you say We are unprofitable Servants we have done that which was our duty to do Child What is the sixth Article Father I also profess that in the Mass there is offered to God a true proper and propitiatory Sacrifice for the Living and the Dead and that in the most holy Sacrament of the Eucharist is contained truly really and substantially the Body and Blood together with the Soul and Divinity of the Lord Jesus Christ and there is made a perfect Change of the whole substance of the Bread into his Body and of the whole Substance of the Wine into his Blood which change the Catholick Church calleth Transubstantiation Child In this Article are many things that I would be glad to understand 1. What I pray Sir is meant by the Mass Father 'T is an old word that few understand the word Missa some say did signifie to dismiss some out of the Assembly even all that did not communicate which if it should do so still would leave the Priest alone for now he usually communicates by himself and the People look on But I rather think 't is call'd the Mass because 't is a mess or mass of Corruption Child But why is is call'd a Sacrifice for the Living and the Dead I thought Sacrifice had ceased Father True Child so the Apostle Heb. 9.28 Christ was once offer'd to bear the Sins of many and Chap. 10.12 But this man after he had offer'd one Sacrifice for Sins for ever sate down on the right hand of God and verse 14. By one Offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified It may be call'd a Sacrifice because it is a Representation and Memorial of the true Sacrifice of Christ on the Cross and because it makes us Partakers of the same but no otherwise as I know of Child But is is the Bread and Wine changed into the Body and Blood of Christ Father No Child certainly if it were we should see it with our Eyes and handle it with our hands and smell it and tast it so to be but we see it and handle it and smell it and tast it Bread and Wine and therefore no doubt so it is After this manner St. John writes That which was from the Beginning which we have heard which we have seen with our Eyes which we have looked upon and our hands have handled of the word of Life 1 Joh. 1.1 and ver 3. That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you that you may have Fellowship with 〈◊〉 Child But what doth the Scripture call it Father The Scripture after Consecration calls it Bread three times together 1 Cor. 11.26.27.28 For as often as ye eat this Bread and drink this Cup ye do shew the Lords Death till he come Wherefore whosoever shall eat this Bread and drink this Cup of the Lord unworthily shall be guilty of the Body and Blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself and so let him eat of that Bread and drink of that Cup. Child But is it plain Bread and Wine and no more Father O no! God by these Signs of Bread and Wine signifieth sealeth and exhibiteth to every faithful Receiver the Body and Blood of Christ and all the merits of his Death and Passion So the Apostle 1 Cor. 10.16 The Cup of Blessing which we bless is it not the Communion of the Blood of Christ the Bread which we break is it not the Communion of the Body of Christ Child But what is this they call Transubstantiation Father The word signifies the Change of one Substance into another and thereby they express their Doctrine of the corporal Presence but neither the word nor thing is to be found in Scripture nor in the Writings of the primitive Fathers neither was it pretended to be an Article of Faith till the Lateran Counsel 1200 years after Christ and therefore we protest against it and say that what the Church of Rome teaches of Transubstantiation is absolutely impossible and
the Saints and with the blood of the Martyrs of Jesus and when I saw her I wondred with great Admiration Child Doth this concern the Pope and Church of Rome Father Yes So the Angel interprets v. 9.18 The seven Heads are seven Mountains on which the Woman sitteth and the Woman which thou sawest is that great City which reigneth over the Kings of the Earth Child If this be the Pope and Church of Rome the Lord give me Grace to avoid Communion with them Father You say well for we have a command to that purpose Rev. 18.4 5. I heard a Voice from Heaven saying Come out of her my People that ye be not Partakers of her Sins and that ye receive not of her Plagues for her sins have reached unto Heaven and God hath remembred her Iniquities Child Is this the last Article of the Trent Creed Father No they have two more The thirteenth Article is also all and whatsoever other thing delivered by way of Tradition defined and declared by the holy Canons and the general Councils and chiefly by the sacred and holy Synod of Trent I undoubtedly receive and profess and together all contrary things and whatsoever Heresies damned rejected and accursed I also damn reject and accurse Child You have spoken something already of Tradition is there any thing more to be known Father Yes They make their unwritten Traditions and the Canons of their Councels equal to the word of God and necessary to Salvation Nay they make the Councel of Trent the only measure and rule of Faith in the Church of Rome Whereas on the contrary St. Paul instructs the Churches of Galathia Gal. 1.8 To measure their Faith by that Gospel only which from the Beginning they had receiv'd and was by himself preached unto them Child I pray Sir what is the last Article Father This true Catholick Faith without which no man can be saved which at this present I freely profess and truly hold I do promise vow and swear most constantly God assisting to retain and confess entire and inviolate to the very last gaspe of Life and to procure as much as shall lie in me that the same be held taught and preached by all my Inferiours and by those that are committed to my care and charge So God help me and those holy Gospels of God Child By this I perceive what is the Catholick Faith of the Church of Rome in the new Trent Creed or Gospel made 1500 years and more after the Death of Christ and imposed by the Pope upon his Subjects to be professed vowed sworn and maintained under Pain of eternal Damnation But can no man be saved without believing in this Creed Father So says the Pope he curses all that will not receive it But St. Paul declares him accursed Gal. 1.8 who preaches any other Gospel than that which he had preach'd unto them The Curse therefore will fall upon the Pope and his Priests except they can find a Priviledge greater than given to Apostles or Angels to make new Creeds and to preach new Gospels at Pleasure Child Do they baptize into this Creed Father No. All the Christian World have ever been baptized into the Faith of the old Creed never any that I heard of into the Faith of this new Creed If this were as needful to Salvation as the old they do men Wrong in Baptizing them but into one half of the Christian Faith therefore we are resolved to adhere to that Faith which hath been professed always every where and by all persons and particularly both by them and us at our Baptisms without Addition or Diminution This was their Faith formerly and is ours still The Result of all is this As the Sum of the Primitive Creed and Gospel is to believe in God so the sum of the Romish Creed is to believe in the Pope and as the rule of the Primitive Faith is the Word of God the holy Scriptures so the Rule of the Romish Faith is the word of man papal Definitions and as the end of the Primitive Faith is the charity of GOd to keep his commandments so the end of the Romish Faith is Slavery to man to uphold his Tyranny and maintain his Supremacy Remember therefore what the Lord Christ says to his Disciples Matt. 7.15 Beware of false Prophets which come to you in Sheeps clothing but inwardly they are ravening Wolves ye shall know them by their Fruits Math. 7.15 And that of the Apostle I know this that after my departing shall grievous Wolves enter in among you not sparing the Flock Also of your own selves shall men arise speaking perverse things to draw away Disciples after them Therefore watch and remember that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one Night and Day with Tears Act. 20.29 30 31. Child The Lord write your Words in my Heart and give me Grace to avoid these ravening Wolves that lie lurking in every Corner But I pray Sir having so well stablished strengthned and settled me in the Faith be pleased also to open to me the Rule of Life viz. the moral Law that I may not be insnared by the corrupt Glosses which I hear the Papists have put upon the holy Law of God And first I pray Sir what do they teach of the Law in general Father The Law as it is expounded by Christ Mat. 5. they say is a new Law far more perfect than the Law of Moses they say also that Christ delivereth new Divine Counsel to his Disciples which was not given in the Law or in the Prophets though Christ says Think not that I am come to destroy the Law or the Prophets I am not come to destroy but to fullfil Mat. 5.17 and Mat. 7.12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you do you even so to them for this is the Law and the Prophets Child What else do they teach concerning the Law Father They teach that 't is possible for a man to keep the whole Law of God and yet Solomon says Who can say I have made my Heart clean I am pure from my Sin Prov. 20.9 They have also a distinction of Venial and Mortal Sins some Sins they say are venial in their own Nature which if they were all together could not equal one mortal Sin nor destroy Charity And yet Jesus Christ says that every idle word that men shall speak they shall give account thereof in the day of Judgment Mat. 12.36 Child I pray Sir what Sins do they call Venial Sins Father Lying ordinary swearing by St. Mary or by the Mass and simple Fornication and such like and yet St. John says speaking of Heaven There shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth neither whatsoever worketh Abomination or maketh a Lie Revel 21.27 Child I have heard indeed that they are very loose in their Morals and I perceive this distinction of venial and mortal Sins was invented for this Purpose But I