For his mouth pronounced destruction against Ierusalem and yet sendeth he the ioyfull tydings of his resurrection to his disciples with that most singuler coÌ„fort that God remained vnto them both God aÌ„d father and eueÌ„ so doeth our Prophet Isaiah for in the oâ—e place he speaketh to the obstinate contemners but in the other place he speaketh to the afflicted children Wey I besech you the scriptures of God with greater reuerence The wordes of Christ ye likewies falsifie for he speaketh not of any common loue which he beareth to all meÌ„ but affirmeth that our heaueÌ„lie Father geueth good thinges or as Lucas affirmeth giueth the holie Gost to such as aske of him Ye must proue first that all aske in faith and according to his will which be the peculiar prerogatiues of the childreÌ„ of God before that Christes wordes can serue for your generall multitude either yet that you shall thereof be able to proue that God loueth all men a like Ye take your pleasure in reasoning with vs whom ye terme Careles by necessitie I will not recompence raling with raling but I pray God that thow the writer of this book shew hereafter greater diligence in godlynes then of many daies thow hast done where so euer thow hast hanted We vse not to subiect God to our corrupt affections but with reuerence and fear we leaue to his godlie wisdom the ordering of his creatures neither yet can you be able to proue that we either by word or writing haue affirmed that the principall end of any maÌ„nes creation was perpetuall paine But we affirme as before we haue declared that God for him self and for the manifestation of his own glorie hath created all thinges But of this we must after more largely speake The finall conclusion which ye collecte of nature is that God hath created none to miserie nor pain For that your master Castalio feareth not most blasphemously to affirme sayiÌ„g y t if he hath so done he is more crewell theÌ„ any wolfe O heauen and earth reuenge this blasphemie That man which here suffereth miserie and much clamitie yea and that also shal be adiuged to the fyre inextiÌ„guible is created of God or as you affirme is the birth of God I suppose your selues will not deny And that he suffereth all miseries by gods iust iudgementes and by his will expressed in his worde the scripture bâ—areth record For God saieth to the woman in sorow and dolor shalt thou beare thy children To the man In the sweate of thy face shalt thow eate thy bread and also cursed is the earth for thy sake Which and many mo places plainely witnes that God hath inflicted pain vpon man whom he hath created You answere That did God for the sin of man I confesse But yet is your foot fast in the snare For after sin man ceased not to be the creature as ye will terme him the birth of God If theÌ„ God be subiect to the law of nature as before we haue said and now agane repete that your vanitie and ignorance may the more appere so that he is bouÌ„de to do the self same thing to his birthes that nature moueth vs to doto our childreÌ„ I ask first why did God suffer man created to his own image to fall in to sin assuredly no naturall father will wittingly and willingly suffer his children to fall into apit or dongeon to destruction And secondarely I aske why did not God who is omnipotent hauing all wisdom and goodnes prouyde an other medicine for man then by death to ouercom so many miseries Thirdly if God wold that none shoulde be borne to miserie why did he not clearly purge the nature of Adam why did he not stay that venom and corruption in our first father why did he permitt it to infect all his posteritie There is no shift that here can serue you For if you say God was prouoked by the sinnes of the posteritie which he did forese to be in them so to do I answer that he foresaw nothing which his eternall and infinit power might not haue remoued aÌ„d remedied if so had pleased his godlie wisedom for then as now was he the God who alone may do what so euer he will in heauen and in earth And further I say that the fouÌ„tain being shet vp the flowing of sin by naturall propagation should haue ceased To gods permission we shall after answer To put end to his mater if ye coÌ„sider nothing els in the great varietie of gods workes but the onely miserie of the sufferer aÌ„d sin which we denie not to be a cause of the same ye haue no better profitâ—d in the schoole of Christ then had the disciples wheÌ„ seing him that was born blind they demanded this question Master say they who hath sinned whether this maÌ„ or his parentes that he should be born blind No other cause did they se of his miserie but sin And to theÌ„ it was straÌ„ge that any man could sin so greuously before he was borne that for the same he should be punished with perpetuall blindnes during his life And that he should suffer such miserie for the offences of his Parentes appered to them to repugne to gods iustice and to that sentence which before he had pronounced by the Prophete Ezechiel affirming that the son should not beare the iniquitie of the father But Christe Iesus in correcting their error giueth to you a profitable lesson if ye can receaue it affirming that neither he neither yet his Parents had sinned that so he should be borne but that the glorie of God should be manifested in him If gods glorie be declared and made manifest euen by the miseries which som creatures sustein Dare you therefor accuse God of creweltie Consider your bold foolishnes and repent your blasphemies before that vengeance strike After that ye haue concluded as you thinke our opinion to be naughtie by arguments drawen from nature you make a bold promes to proue the same by plain scriptutes And yet your first entrance is but by a reason not well grounded vpon these scriptures which ye alledge Thus ye write If God hath ordeined the most part of the world to perdition then were his wrath greater then his mercie but the scripture witnesseth that his mercie is ouer all his creatures Ergó will ye conclude He hath not created the most part of the world to perdition To proue that gods mercie is greater then his wrath ye bring furth the wordes of Dauid Psal. 30. 45. Isaiah 54. and of God him self proclaming his own name vnto Moises for these wordes are not the wordes of Moises as ye alledge but were spoken by God him self in the eares of Moises To the Maior I haue answered before that falsly ye burden vs that we affirme that God hath ordeined y e most parte of the world to perdition for we presume not to define what nomber God shall saue and how many he shall iustly
shal be illuminated and you shall se first that becaus the creator is infinitly good that therefor it behoueth the creatures in their original creation to be good And so I doute not was the deuil created good but in the veritie he stood not And secoÌ„darely that because the iust iudgemeÌ„ts of God were no les to shyne in the damnation of the reprobat then his infinite mercie was to be praised in the vessels of honor it behoued the one and the other to be innocent and good in their creation For if the original had bene euill God iustly could not haue after daÌ„ned that which he had made no better but so we must confesse that it was good that yet willingly corrupting the self maÌ„ made away to the most iust executioÌ„ of gods eternal couÌ„sell And last that the eternall purpose of God might in tyme be notified vnto maÌ„ w c was that God wold bestow greater liberalitie shew greater loue aÌ„d mercie in the redeÌ„ption of maÌ„ iustly damned then that he did in his creation Of nothing he did creat him for his corporall substaÌ„ce was made of the dust which somtymes was not to his own image and similitude to him he gaue the dominion of all creatures these were documents of a true loue But if they be compared with that loue which in Christ Iesus we receiue and that of fre grace they are no thing For what is the dominion of earthlie creatures in respect that we shall reigne with Christ Iesus for euer what were the pleasures and fruites of Paradise in comparison of those heaueÌ„lie ioyes which sainct Paul affirmeth can not enter in to the heart of man If man had stand perpetually in Adam neither had the loue of God so wonderously bene notified vnto vs neither yet had place ben graÌ„ted to his fre grace aÌ„d mercie w c we receiue in Christ Iesus For mercy properly hath respect to miserie But y e cheif comfort of gods children is that as they fell in Adam so are they new transferred in an other that is in Christ Iesus to whom they are giuen and who as before we haue proued hath so receaued them from the hand of his Father that he shall giue lief euerlasting to so many as the Father hath giuen him If ye I say can not admitt these reasons why it behoued maÌ„ to be created good and yet after to fall in to sin and merserie accuse your selues storm not against God for he will not be subiect to your reason iudgements your horrible blasphemies against God and your dispitefull raling against vs at this tyme I will omitt and how impudently ye leap from the purpose of gods reprobation to the execution of his iudgement shal be spoken in weying this your reason which thus foloweth THE ADVERSARIE The scripture witnesseth that we did fall in Adam for damnation came of one sinne vnto condemnation then did we all stand afore in Adam for none falleth but he that standeth If we did all stand then were we all predestinate to lief for as our fall here is to damnation and death so is our standing vnto saluation and lief And to confirme this we haue many testimonies in the word which proue vs to be elected chosen and predestinat to lief afore the fall but none that proue any man to be abiected cast away damned and reprobate afore sinne by which death entred into the world Paul to the Ephesians saieth God did choose vs in Christe before the foundations of the world were laid and ordeined vs before through him to be heires vnto him self and were tâ—erunto predestinat I pray you shew me any testimonie of the scripture which so manifestly proueth that God hath reprobate any before the foundations of the world God hath no respect of persons For he calleth the world from the rising vp of the son vnto the going downe of the same he made bothe small and great and careth for bothe a like for they be all the work of his handes And Esdras saieth it was not gods will that man should com to nought but he prepared lief for them The holie Gost saieth that God hath not made death neither hath he pleasure in the destruction of the liuing for he created all things that they might haue their being yea all the people of the earth hath he made that they should haue helthe and their should be no destruction in them and that the kingdom of hell should not be vpon earth what can be more plainely and more directly spoken against this error In an other place saieth the holie Gost God created man to be vndestroyed and agane God ordeined man that he should order the world according to equitie and righteousnes and execute iudgement with a true hearte doeth God ordein man to rule the world according to righteousnes whom he reprobated Do men gather grapes as Christ saieth of thornes and figges of thistles euen so euerie good tree bringeth furthe good fruites But a corrupt tree bringeth furth euill fruite a good tree can not bring furth badd fruit neither can a badd tre bring furth good fruite Matth. 7. Either make the tre good and the fruite good orels the tre euill and his fruite euill Either grant man at his creation to be righteous and good and then I think ye will abhorre to say that God afore the foundations of the world did reprobate his good and righteous creature orels grant him at his creation to be an euill and vnrighteous creature Could then righteous iudgement com of such an vnrighteous tree further if man at his creation was an euill things then was he not the creature of God For God sawe al that he had made and they were verie good if man at his creation or afore was reprobate and ordeined vnto death then was man giltie afore the transgressioÌ„ for God damned none but such as be gyltie If he was giltie afore his transgression then was he a sinner being yet innocent and iust afore he euer consenteth or committed sinne And so consequently of this error I may inferre many no such absurdities as should offend any faithfull mannes eares ANSWER As no man of hole iudgement did euer denie that in Adam we did fall so I think you aÌ„d your sect set a part there hath ben none that euer did affirme that in Adam we were predestinat to lief euerlasting True it is y t we stood in Adam created in his loynes but I suppose that ye will not hold that the children had greater priuiledge then had the father Adam did not so stand but that he was subiect to the law the transgression where of made him dettour to death To speake the mater more plainely Adam did so stand that he might and did fall as the euent declared aÌ„d were his children so elect in him that they could not fall so ye appere to conclude For thus ye reason if we did all stand then were we
donne theÌ„ a iust commandemeÌ„t to witt That he doer haue gods expresse commandement for his assurance And secondarely that he looke and haue respect to the same endes which God hath vttered in his word and last that he do it onely to obey God Nowe proue any of these to haue bene in Semei and I will confesse that ye haue once triumphed I finde that Dauid did acknowledge gods commandement and couÌ„sell and therfor at that time wold he not arme him self nor his seruantes to take vengeance But what commandemeÌ„t of God I pray you did Semei either acknowledge or confesse I finde no mention that he excuseth him self no not by any commandement that he had receaued of God when after he submitteth him self to Dauid in the day wheÌ„ he returned and came ouer Iordane But I finde him plainely to confesse his offence saying Let not my Lorde impute wickednes vnto me nor remembre the thing that thy seruant did wickedly when my Lorde the king departed oute of Ierusalem that the king shoulde take it to his heart for thy seruant doeth knowe that I haue donne amisse If Semei had either knowen any commandement of God or if he had looked to the same end to the which God looked he might haue had plausible reasons to haue persuaded Dauid to haue shewed fauor and mercie vnto him first he might haue said Oh Dauid althogh thow was kiÌ„g and that I did curse the thow oghtest no more to be offended against me then thow wast against the Prophet Nathan for as he had gods commandemeÌ„t plainely to reuele thy sinne aÌ„d sharply to rebuke the same to the eÌ„d that thou mightest be more effectually moued to repentance so had I gods commandement bitterly to curse thee to the end that thou mightest humble thy self before thy God whom so highly thou hast offended These I say I had bene plausible reasons to haue moued Dauid to mercie But the canckered conscience of Semei did witnes against him self y t he to his knowledge had neither commandement of God neither yet that he looked to any purpose or counsell of God but onely to Dauids vtter confusion destructioÌ„ which he maliciously soght And so I say albeit that gods commandement in the self was iust for the purpose and end which he had appointed yet was this commandement hid to Semei and gods purpose also vnknowen to him therfore was his fact neither iustly nor obediently donne for a iust fact as I haue before said requireth a good wil to obey a iust commandement and obedieÌ„ce requireth knowledge of the will which neither of bothe was in Semei Nowe proue if you caÌ„ either iniustice in God who thus doeth vse this wicked instrumeÌ„t or yet in Dauid his sernant who in his testament commanded the dissembled hypocrisie to be punished The rest of your vaine sophisterie which of Castalio you haue begged doeth nothing profit you for albeit we should confesse that it was the will of God in some respecte that Semei should haue an euill and inobedient minde how shall you be able to proue that therfor he did obey God Is it not the will of God that sathan and the wicked world of a wicked and malicious mynde trooble and tempt his children in this earthe Doeth it therfor folowe that Sathan and the wicked obey God or doeth it not most iustly folowe that because God will that our pacience should be knowen that the wicked from tyme to tyme procede in their impietie till the measure be full that therfor they caÌ„ neuer obey God And in this our affirmation we feare not so much the frost nor snowe as that we lament your vncomelye iesting in gods scriptures Thus you procede THE ADVERSARIE An argumeÌ„t you make in that place of Genesis where Iâ—seph saieth vnto his brethren God sent me hither for your liues saik and thereafter it was not you that sent me hither but God which hath made me a father vnto Pharao of this do you gather that the wicked dede which Iosephes brethern did in selling him was the Lords dede and secret will But for so much as the patriarckes here committed double sinne first greued their father and secondly they did committe the greatest kinde of these that is to sell a mans child from him which by the lawe â—ght to be punished by death therfor may we see that this dede was not donne by gods will for 〈◊〉 was centrarie to this commandementes neither wil he any wickednes but according to his nature which is euer good he turned their wicked dede to a good end for his seruantes AbrahaÌ„ Isaack and Iacâ—bes sakeâ— for he sheweth mercie to the thousand generaâ—ion of them that loue him this to be so it is plainely proued by the latter chapter where Ioseph saieth vnto his brethren you thoght â–ª euill ouer me but God haâ—h turned it vnto good to do as it is come to passe this day marke well what is here ascribed vnto Iosephes brethern and what vnto God They thoght euill and God turned it to good Then their minds and gods mynde were not all one wherfor it was not gods wil that they should thus do wickedly notwithstanding that this place of the last of Geneses is so manifest and directe against your error as can be yet will you not agree to the trueth but flie to your shamefull shift of gods secret will for here you say that it was gods secret will that this should so come to passe so that the patriarkes thoghtes were moued to do this by God Thus you attribut to God that which is propre to the deuill by the testimonie of the word Wherby we be taught that the deuill moved meÌ„ with euill thoghtes God commandeth vs to resist euill thoghtes which if they come of him then commandeth he vs to resist him self Iames saieth that no man is tempted of God But to moue with euill thoghtes is to tempt all is good which commeâ—h from the father of light wherfor if euill thoghts come from him they must be good then was Iosephes saying vntrewe you thoght euill over me but you grant euill thâ—ghtes to be euill and yet you say that they came from God then may we call God the fâ—ther â—f darâ—knes because from him came euill thoghts which are darknes And wher you sayâ— that God doeth hose things for his owne glory I aâ—swer that saying is but vaine â–ª for we glorifie him wheÌ„ we iudge him worthie to be glorified as Nabuchadnez or being chaÌ„ged into a brutishe nature hauing experience of the iustice power of God he gaue glory to God for as much as he did see iudged God to be iust God wil be glâ—rified of all nations then must gods works be such as all nations may knowe â—hem and praise them yet is â—here no nation which at any tyme shall acknowledge God to be iust for because he punished a man for the offence wherunto he him self did prouoke him The
serue the Lord what profit haue we for keping his commandements â–ª Therefore may weâ— say that the proude are happie aâ—d that they which deale with vngodlines are set vp Such a spâ—rit haue ye carâ—les libertins as your doctrine wel declareth did not God threaten Adam that in what daye so euer he shoulde eat of the frute he shoulde dye the death not onely corporall but also eternall They which forsake the commandements of God forsake God him self as the Prophetes saye th they are not the Lords for they haue vnfaithfully forsaken him Wherefore Adam when he forsoke God was not the Lords but the seruant of death and sinne to whom soeuer ye commit your selues as seruants to obeye saieth Paul his seruants ye are to whom ye obey whether it be of sinne vnto death or obedience vnto righteousnes And againe if any man haue not the Spirit of Christ the same is none of his and nâ—ther AdaÌ„ nor Dauid were led by the spirit of Christ when they sinned for the spirit of Christ dwelleth not insuch as forsake him obey the deuil except Christ saith the Apostel dwel in you ye are cast away then AdaÌ„ Dauid were cast à waies that is reprobates wheÌ„ they sinned for nether were they in Christ nor Christ in theÌ„ in whoÌ„ the electioÌ„ of God was is but to what purpose shoulde I thus conteÌ„d with you that AdaÌ„ did fâ—lle out of the electioÌ„ seing in this ye agre not your selues for your coÌ„gregatioÌ„ which is aâ— Genâ—ua in the confession of their faith say that of the lost sonnes of AdaÌ„ God elected som to life and the rest he refused Eâ—her improue their beâ—efe or els confâ—sse with them that all the children of Adam were lost by traÌ„sgression If they were lost â–ª then were they out of the eleâ—tion with their father â–ª Adam from thâ— transgression vnto the promâ—s was made Therefore saieth Paul damnatioâ— came of one sinne vnto condemnatioÌ„ in an other place like as by Adam all dye euen so by Christ â–ª shal all be made aliue Here doeth the Apostles witnes plaâ—nely â–ª that we all by Adam do dye S. Iohn saieth hâ— that beleueth not is alredie condemnedand the wrath of God abideth on him Then were Adam and Dauid and all such workers of iâ—â—quitie for that tym that they siâ—â—ed alredie condemned being void of faith And coulde they be in the â—â—ate of condâ—mnation election both together â–ª Harken what followeth and â–ª the wrath of God abideth on 〈◊〉 as Adam from the traâ—sgression vâ—to thâ— promes felt the force of the wrath of God Thus we 〈◊〉 thaâ— Adam and Dauid and all other 〈◊〉 they sinned â—hey be out of the louâ— and fauâ—r and election of God vnto they repenâ— and be bâ—rnâ— a nâ—w for otherwisâ— can they neuer enter intâ— the kingdome of heauen Again S Iohn saith ye knowe that no manslâ—yâ— are hath etâ—rnâ—l lieâ— abiding in him Dauid was a man killâ—r wherefore he had not eterâ—al lief abiding in him Buâ— during the timâ— of his wickedâ—es he was the childe of death as the Prophet Nathan shewâ—d him Dauid gâ—uing iudgement against him self â–ª without faith it can not bâ— that any man shouldâ— please God Adam and Dauid when they sinned they were without faith then pleasâ—d they not God If they pleased him not they displeased him so that they were fallen from the loue and fâ—uor of God ANSWER Albeit that I perceaue y t ether ignoraÌ„ce doeth so impede you orels that malice doeth so blynd you y t nether ye wil nor can vnderstand y t which in y e self is most sensible plaine I wil neuer theles yet once againe repete that w c before I haue said to the eÌ„d that we may giue testimonie aswâ—ll to those y t now liue as vnto y e posteritie to com what doctrine it is w c ye so furiously impugne If ignorance be the cause why thus ye rage against vs ye may be taught if ye list to bestowe your eares to heare your eyes to read heartes to vnderstand for o â— doctrine is not as som of you do complein darke nor obscure except y t it be to those to whom y e Apostle affirmed y t his EuaÌ„gill was hid But if that malice w c ye haue coÌ„ceaued agaiÌ„st the eternal trueth of God doth so blynd you that ye wil not se y e bright son in y e midday there resteth no more to vs but to desire of God ether to remoue this your deuelish malice I write as knoweth God euen froÌ„ y e grief of heart orels so to stay brydle it y â— it trooble not his afflicted Church Ye accuse vs as y t we made no differeÌ„ce betwext vice vertue sinne and iustice nether yet betwext AdaÌ„ and Dauid as they were elected in Christ Iesus before y e fouÌ„dacions of the worlde were laid and betwext Adam transgressing and Dauid committing adulterie and murtheâ— Ye further seme to charge vs as we should affirme that God hated not sinne nether yet that he respected vice If our short plaine and vnfeined coÌ„fessioÌ„ be able to satisfie you in these thre dowtes I haue good hope y t after this ye shall haue no occasion to suspect vs in such causes first before God before his holie Angelles in heaueÌ„ before his coÌ„gregatioÌ„ in earthe we protest acknowledge y t sinne vice and all kind of iniquitiâ— is and euer hath bene so odious in y e presence of God y t he neuer suffered y e same vnpunished in any of his elect childreÌ„ That for y e same not onelie death but also coÌ„moÌ„ calamities hath appreheÌ„ded all man kynd eueÌ„ sitheÌ„ce the first trasgression That vertue iustice and ciuil honestie besydes the iustice of the regenerat children hath so pleased God â–ª that for loue of the same he hath mainteined and to this day doth maintein coÌ„mon welthes albeit that many grieuous crymes be commited in the same As God we say and affirme loueth equitie iustice chastitie trueth mercie and teÌ„peraÌ„ce so doth he in som sort hieghly reward the same and hateth vnrighteousnes filthie life deceat excesse crueltie and riaâ—ous liuing which often he punisheth euen in manneâ— eyes And this difference we say God maketh euen amongest those that be not regenerate nether were euer called to y e true knowledge of saluation And this much briefly for the first secoÌ„d and 3. This difference we make betwext Adam and Dauid elected in Christ Iesus and Adam and Dauid transgressing gods holie commaÌ„demeÌ„t and wil reueled â–ª Adam and Dauâ—d elected in Christ Iesus before the foundations of the worlde were laid were so loued in the same Lord Iesus their head that when they had most horribly fallen and offended yet did God seke Adam call vpon him gently reason with him and at length conuicting his conscience of his offence did make vnto him that most ioyfull promes of recoÌ„ciliation of the same loue we say
it proceded that God did send the Prophete NathaÌ„ to Dauid the offender that by the fiction of an other person he letteth him se the horror of his sinne that he did first terrifie and beate downe his conscience and after most tenderly did erect and lift it vp from the pitt of desperation All these graces say we proceded frome gods immutable loue which did remaine coÌ„stant both towardes the one and towardes the other euen in the tyme of their greatest vnthank fulnes And that because they nether were beloued nor elected in them selues but in Christ Iesus their head who nether did transgresse nor offend in any iote against the wil of his heauenlie father But Adam and Dauid transgressing and horribly falling from God were so hated in them selues and for their sinnes that first behoued the innocent Sonne of God by his death to make a satisfaction â–ª for their sinnes â–ª as also for the sinnes of all gods children And secondarely we say preache write and maintein that the sinne was so odious before God that his iustice could do none other but inflict vpon Adam and his posteritieâ— The penaltie of death corporall the punishemeÌ„tes and plagues which daily we do se apprehend gods children that vpon Dauid he did execute his iust iudgement which in these wordes he pronounced Now therefor y e sworde shall neuer departe from thyne house because thow hast despysed me and taken the wife of vriah the Hittite to be thy wife Thus saieth the lord behold I wil raise vp euill against the oute of thyne own house and I shall take thy wiues before thyne eyes and giue them vnto thy neighbour and he shall lye with thy wyues in the sight of sunne for y u didest it secretely but I shall do this thing before all Israel and before y â— sunne This sentence I say most iustly pronounced was after most sharply and yet most iustly for sinne commited put in â–ª execution And so do we affirm that none of gods children be they neuer so deare shall escaip punishement if contempteously they transgresse I suppose y t this our confession nothing doth offend you except in this one thing y t we affirme that God still loued AdaÌ„ and Dauid after their sinne before y t his holie Sprit wroght in their heartes any true repentance And yet I wonder why this should offend you seing y t we assigne the cause not to be them selues nether any vertue with in them selues but Christ Iesus in whom they were elected and chosen The signes of gods loue we haue euideÌ„tly proued and y â— end and issue did witnes y t gods loue was not mutable If you require scriptures for the probatioÌ„ of y e same Behold they are redie if wheÌ„ we were enemies we were recoÌ„ciled vnto God by the death of his sone much more we being recoÌ„ciled shal be saued by his life And a little before in the same chapter WheÌ„ we were sinners Christ died for vs c. And y e Apostle Iohn herein appereth the loue of God towardes vs y â— his onelie begotten sonne hath he sent in to the world that we may liue by hym herein is loue not that we loued God but that he loued vs. And hath sent his Sonne in the mercieseat â–ª for our sinnes These are verey plaine and we think that no reasonable man wil denie to Adam and to Dauid that which the holie Gost maketh common to all gods elect children to witt to be beloued of God â–ª euen when they were ennemies dead in sinne drowned in idolatrie and polluted with all filthines as witnesseth the Apostle in these wordes And you when ye were dead by sinne in the which ye somtymes walked according to this worlde accordiÌ„g to y â— prince to whom power is the ayre which is the spirit now working in the rebellious children amongest whom we all had somtymes conuersation in the lustâ—s of our flesh doing those thinges which pleased the fleshe and the mynd and were of nature the sonnes of wrathe like as others But God who is riche in mercie for his own great loue by the which he loued vs euen when we were dead by sinnes marke and if ye be offended complein vpon the holie Gost hath qwickened vs togither with Christ by grace ye are saued and hath raised vs vp togither with him and to gither with him hath caused vs to sit amongest y â— heauenlie by Christ Iesus to shew in y e ages to com his most rich grace in his liberalitie by Christ Iesus God open your eyes that you may se the light and mollifie your heartes that ye may magnifie with gods children his superaboundant loue and mercie bestowed euen vpon the most vnworthie If ye think y t this loue hath onelie place before that man offend you se the holie Gost plainely repugneth to your senteÌ„ce for he speaketh to them that had bene polluted defiled with all sinnes If yet ye replie but that was during the tyme of their ignoraÌ„ce and not after they were illuminated by grace ye haue said nothiÌ„g against our confession for we affirme that God loueth sinners being wrapped in death and damnatioÌ„ by sinne and y t we haue plainely proued But yet for your satisfactioÌ„ and instructioÌ„ for I take to record the Lord Iesus y â— I wold bestow my own life to ioyne you fully to Christ Iesue I will procede a litle further with you â–ª Do ye think that the sinne of Dauid touching the nature and qualitie of y e sinne it self was more horrible and odious be fore God then were all the sinnes committed in Ephesus by those to whom the Apostle writeth yea then the â—innes which were done amongest y e hole GeÌ„tiles I trust ye will not think it and we clerely see that God loued y â— elect in Ephesus and amongest the Gentiles when they were drouned in all kynd of iniquitie If still ye replie Dauid was vnthankfull who after so many benefites receaued so traterously declined frome God followiÌ„g his own appetites and of purposed couÌ„sell murthering his innocent seruant and y â— with great ignominie of God This nether do nether yet euer did we denie but yet as y â— question is other so is not our coÌ„feâ—â—ion proued fals Albeit Dauid was vnthankfull yea and after AdaÌ„ most vnthankfull of any of gods children to his daies for herein standeth the doubt whether y â— the vnthankfulnes of gods childreÌ„ after they haue once receaued mercie grace and large benefites from gods hands doth so alienat the mynd of God from them that he beareth to them no maner of loue till they turn to him by repentance The contrarie hereof we hold and affirme not fearing to auowe that repentance as it is ioyned with faith which is the fre gift of God so is it the effect of gods coÌ„stant loue toward them and no cause of the same And for the more ample declaration
peruers dâ—ctryne â—e will infect Christianite with the chief error wherewith the Iewes be deludâ—d That 〈◊〉 they esteme it a great madnes to say that Christ should suffer death for the offence coÌ„mitted by Adam euen so may I collect of your error-for what nedeth Christ to die for them whom nether Adams transgression â–ª nether their own could make them fall from gods election but now I will more largely dilate this argument Election was afore the world when there was no sinne and the promes of Christ was made sitheÌ„se the world was created because of sinne for had not sinne bene we neded no new promes being alredie iust and holie images of God Now if the elect did not fall out of the election by AdaÌ„s traÌ„sgressâ—on then nede they no redemer being alredie safe by reason of the electioÌ„ in which they were afore sinne aÌ„d remaine still in the same Because as you say the elect nether did nor can fall out of the election Then seing the elect be safe and hole they nede no phisition nether came Christ to call the righteous but â—innâ—rs wherfor the death of Christ as concerning them is in vain they being safe alredie by election The like argument vseth Paul to the Galathyaâ—s if righteousnes cometh by the Law then Christ died in vaine if the elect â–ª be stâ—ll in the fauor of God what nede they of Christ to reconcile them to the father in whose fauore they are alredie Now as touching the other sorte whom ye call reprobates you say they caÌ„ by no maner of meanes be saued yea that Christ died not for them then was Chistes death altogither in Vaine â–ª for his death you say belongeth not to the reprobate and the elect haue no nede of it Is not this godlie gere ANSWER In dilating your argument by the which ye go about to proue y t Christes preciouse death was surperfluouse and vaine if the elect did not fall from their election this reason ye vse Election was afore the world wheÌ„ there was no sinne and the promes of Christ was made sithence the world was created becaus of sinne for had not sinne bene we nedâ—d no newe promes being alredie iust and holie â—mages of God Now if the elect say you did not fall out of the election by Adams transgression then nede they no râ—demer being alredie saue by reason of the election in the which they were afore sinne and remaine still in the same c â–ª In this argument ye commit two fowle faultes The first ye take that for a thing true aÌ„d coÌ„fessed which is fals and therefore by vs alwaies denied for thus ye reason man was elected before the worlde was created but man sinned aftre the world was created Ergo man fel from his election we still denie the conclusion and do affirme that as we were elected in Christ Iesus before all times so did the elect euer remainâ— in Christ. and therfore after that they had sinned it behoued that the promes shoulde be declared that by the same the elect might receaue comfort and be assured of their election Your second fault more declareth youre grosse ignorance in the mysterie of our redemption for from election ye streight waies leap to glorificacion and saluation obseruing nether middes nor meanes which gods wisdome hath appointed and determined to go betwext Trew it is God hath elected in Christ to life euerlasting his chosen childreÌ„ But how Sainct Paul yea the hole scriptures wheresoeuer mention is made of our election ioyneth therewith the death and blood of Christ. for none otherwies were we elected in him but that he shoulde sustein the punishement for our transgression And that we shoulde receaue life which we had lost in Adam and in our selues by the meanes of his death and resurrection therefore where ye reason if the elect did not fall oute of the Election by Adams transgressioÌ„ theÌ„ nede they no redemer being alredie saued by reason of their election the coÌ„clusion is fals and the reason vaine for the elect haue nede of a redemer not because that they did fal out of election but by reason that they did fal from iustice to sinne froÌ„ obedieÌ„ce to dissobedieÌ„ce therefore nede they a redemer a phisicion aÌ„d one to giue theÌ„ life because y t they being elect in gods eternal counsel are yet fallen into bondage into mortal sicknes death by their own traÌ„sgression If ye can proue y t the elect did not sinne that they are noâ— sicke then might ye haue concluded that they neded no redemer nor phisition And so ye might haue proceded in your argument vpon the wordes of the Apostle saing that if righteousnes cometh by the law then Christ died in vaine but seing that all gods childreÌ„ are fallen in to sinne the bondage and miserie wherof they in this lief coÌ„tinually fele how iustly ye may conclude that becaus they remained in gods election and so consequently in his fauor by Christ that therefor they neded no redemer let the indifferent reader iudge If it seme straÌ„ge to you that God loued sinners in Christ besides the places that are afore alledged for probation of that part heare what the veritie it self pronounceth So God loued the world saieth our master that his onelie begotten Sonne hath he giuen whom soeuer ye shall vnderstand vnder the name of the world ye can not sâ—clude sinners from it where ye most vnreuerently ask what then nede they of Christ to recoÌ„cile them I answer with greater feare and reuerence then alas you declare euen such nede they haue of Christ as the bodie hath of the soule or yet the liuing maÌ„ of holsome nuriture yea much more for albeit the bodie haue lief by the meanes of meat and drink yet haue the elect nether lief nor reconciliation but by Christ Iesus yea and that by the meanes of his deathe and passion by the which iust payment and satisfaction is made to gods iustice for their sinnes And so are they reconciled who by nature are the enemies to God We do not denie but that Christes death is sufficient for to redeme the sinnes of the hole world but because all do not receaue it with faith which is the fre gift of God giuen to the chosen children therefor abyde thâ— vnfaithfull in iust condemnation God remitt vnto you if his good pleasure be aswell your vnreuerent conclusion as your most vniust accusation in which ye burden vs that we will infect the Christianitie with the chief error with the which the Iewes are infected who esteme it a great madnes to say that Christ should suffer death for the sinnes and offences committed by Adam Assuredly I do more then woÌ„der that such impietie shal be found in any creature indewed with reason but I remitt iudgemeÌ„t to God Thus you procede THE ADVERSARIE The Apostle saieth God hath frome the begining choseÌ„ you to saluatioÌ„ through sanctifiyng of the the spirit
all traitours they are all I say traitours euery brother deceaueth another All men contemne me all men hold me in execration If these and other lyke places shal be vnderstand so vniuersaly as they appere to be spoken then must we be compelled to say that no true fearer of God remayned in Ierusalem when the Prophetes did preach but that all were blood thirstie all auaricious all idolaters and all dumme dogges the contrarie wherof is euidently declared For Isai had the children whom the Lord had giuen vnto him who albeit they were holden as monsters amonge men yet did they patientlye abide the Lord. Ieremie had Baruch his faithfull scribe not withstaÌ„ding his weakenes and infirmitie Abedmelech feared the Lord was fauourable to the Prophete and therefore saued he his soule for a praye and was deliuered from that day of vengeance And therefore these vniuersall sentences must also be restreyned and kept within their own boundes like as these All haue left me all seke the thinges that apperteine vnto them selues and not those thinges that be of God Which senteÌ„ces except they be restreined we shall condemne the dearest children of God who in Paules daies did valiaÌ„tly fight against the prince of this world These examples of the one sorte of the other I haue adduced to lette the simple vnderstand that such generall sentences of necessitie must be so restreined that difference may be kept betwext the elect and the reprobate For els we shall do nothing in explaning scriptures but confound light with darcknes For if the wordes of our Master Christe Iesus saying All shal be taught of God shal be so generally vnderstaÌ„d that no exception be admitted then of necessitie it is that all men and euery persone shall come to the true knowledge of Christe Iesus â–ª for of that knowledge doth he speake in that place But the contrarie thereof is moste euident euen by Christe Iesus his owne wordes who putteth a plaine difference betwext them that be giuen to him by his father and betwext them that be not giuen But now let vs briefly consider what sinners they are whose death God will not but rather hat they conuert lyue Sainct Ihon in his Epistle saith If we say we haue no sinne we deceaue our selues the veritie is not in vs. If we coÌ„fesse our sinnes he is faithfull iust to remitte to vs our sinnes and to clense vs from all vnrighteousnes c. And after Who soeuer commiteth sinne transgresseth also y â— law for sinne is the transgression of the law And ye know y t he is reueled to take away our sinnes and in him is no sinne As many as byde in him y t is in Chriiste Iesus sin not who soeuer sinneth hath not sene him nether hath knoweÌ„ him c. He y t coÌ„mitteth sinne is of the deuill for the deuil sinneth froÌ„ y e beginning c. who soeuer is borne of God committeh not sinne for his sede abideth in him nether can he sinne because he is borne of God Of w c wordes it is euideÌ„t y t there be two sortes of sinners the one be they who mourne lameÌ„t and bewaile their owne wretchednes and miserie vnfainedly before God coÌ„fessing not onely that their hole nature is sinfull and corrupt but also y t dailie they so offend y e Maiestie of their God y t most iustly they deserue the tormentes of hell if Christes iustice Christes mediation w c by faith they embrase should not deliuer them from the wrath to come To these is not sinne imputed for y e blood of Christe purgeth them from all sinne his aduocation and intercession maketh to theÌ„ an enterance to the throne of their fathers grace To theÌ„ is giuen the spirit of sanctification w c from time to time as it reueleth their sinnes so doth it mortifie purge the same Not that euer in this life gods elect hath bene are or shal be so cleane purged from sinne y t the flesh lusteth not against the spirit as some times affirmed the Pellagians those that then were called Cathari that is cleane purged and now also do the Anabaptistes renew the same most pestilent error by the which Christ Iesus his iustice his office and perpetuall mediation is vtterly destroyed in such sort I saye are not gods childreÌ„ purged in this life that nether they fele sinne nether yet the motioÌ„s entisemeÌ„tes of the same But they are so purged y â— sinne raigneth not in their mortall bodies for the sede of God which is the vertue power efficacie and operation of his holie spirite suffereth them not to delyte in sinne but as they are first called from darcknes to light froÌ„ the bondage of sathan to the libertie of gods children so when they sinne as there is none that sinneth not they are called againe by true repentance to their former societie and felowship with Christe Iesus The death of such sinners did God neuer will nether yet can he will for from all eternitie they were his elect childreÌ„ whom he gaue to his deare Sonne to be his enheritaÌ„ce whom the Sonne receaued into his protection and sauegard to whome he hath manifested and to the ende shall manifest him selfe and the louing kindes of his heauenlie father In whose heartes he writeth the law of God and maketh them to walke in his commandementes â—uer thirsting to a further and more perfect iustice then they find within them selues by reason of their corruption The death I say of those sinners God will not but he will that they repent and liue The Apostle saint Peter saith The Lord that hath promised is not slow but he is long suffering toward vs while that he will none to perish but will receaue all to repentaÌ„ce The Apostle here meaneth not y t al without exception shal be receaued to life by true repentance but y t the cause why God so long deferreth as it were y e extreme iudgement is y â— the electnomber of gods children may be complete as answere was giuen to those y â— cried vnder the aulter to be reuenged vpon the tyrannes that dwell on the earth of these his elect children God will none to perish as before is said But there is an nother sort of sinners farre different from these For nether are they displeased w t theÌ„ selues nether yet hate they iniquitie but against gods expresse coÌ„mandementes furiously they runne w t Cain to murther the innocent with Pharao to oppresse the people of God with Iudas to betray the knowen and professed veritie and finally so delyte they in all filthines impietie that they can not repent The eyes of such be blinded their heartes are hardened they are giuen ouer in to a reprobate minde And for theÌ„ doth not Christe Iesus pray and therefore they can do nothing but headlonges runne from euill to worse as the deuill to whose tyranny they are committed doth driue them till finally they come
that of nature we were all the sonnes of wraeth If ye alledge that the apostle speaketh in that place of man as he is corrupted in Adame and so iustly depriued from gods fauor then I demand of you if man doth yet staÌ„d in Adame which if ye confesse the holie spirit shall conuict you of alie For by the mouth of the Apostle he affirmed that by one maÌ„ sinne entred in to the world aÌ„d by the meanes of sinne death came vpon all men so that in the first man Adame who fell frome his puritie haue we neither loue iustice nor life but y e coÌ„traries to wit hatred sinne aÌ„d deaâ—h But God as he had chosen his elect before all beginning in Christe Iesus his Sonne so hath he placed these giftes in the second Adam alone â–ª that of his fulnes we may all receaue euen grace for grace And thus ye may easely perceaue how vane be your arguments which you iudged most strong Your first drawen from nature and naturall inclination proueth nothing becaus that God who is alwaies fre can not be subiect to the lawes of nature Albeit that for our weaknes he some tymes vseth similitudes taken from nature Your second is like vaine seing that neither Adam him self did stand in his perfection neither is any of his corrupted sede as he is the soÌ„ of Adam borne in that coÌ„dition aÌ„d dignitie But coÌ„trarie wise we must refuse fleshe and blood nature and our first AdaÌ„ if euer we shall be partakers of life This onely were sufficient to confute bothe your vnreasonable reasons But that here after ye shall haue no accasion to complain of obscurite neither yet that we relent in any parte I will first simply propose what we teach and beleue and there after by gods grace euidently proue the same You make the loue of God common to all men and that do we constantly deny and say that before all beginning God hath loued his elect in Christ Iesus his Sonne and that frome the same eternitie he hath reprobate others whom for most iust causes in the tyme appointed to his iudgement he shall adiuge to tormentes and fier inextinguible Here you stomak and storme here ye crie blasphemie and here you say that we affirme that which can not be proued by gods scriptures How sure is the probation of the former part let the indifferent reader iudge by that which is all ready spoken Let vs now come to the second And that ye shall not think that I shall more depend vpon argumentes and reason then vpon scripture I will begin with scripture and let argumentes and reason serue onely in stede of hande maides which shall not command but obey scripture pronounced by the voyce of God After that by rebellion man was spoiled of all graces and that the contrarie vices had taken place and possession in the heartes of bothe these miserable creatures of Adam I mean and of the woman God pronouÌ„ced this senteÌ„ce agaiÌ„st the serpeÌ„t Because thow hast done this cursed art thow amoÌ„gst all the beastes of the earth I shall establish enemitie betwext the aÌ„d that womaÌ„ betwext thy sede and her sede That sede shall break downe thy head and thow shalt break doune his hele As I suppose no man wil be so impudent as to deny that this is the voice of God pronouncing and promising that he will stablish and put a battel where none was appering to be for sathan before had obteined such victorie and so had vanquished bothe the woman and Adam that they could neuer haue resisted that seruitude by them selues And therefor doth he disclose the bowelles of his mercie and doth communicat with them that counsell which was secrete with him selfe before all begining And if ye demande How can it be proued that this was his eternall counsell I answer because that he in whom there is no changeing nor variablenes hath now pronounced it and whether this reason be sufficient or not in answering to your obiection we shall after consider Now resteth it onely to be obserued whether it was the will of God or not to make a difference betwext man and man Plaine it is that before his face as touching the first birth there standeth but one lompe or masse as saint Paul termeth it and yet from the same are two sedes appointed to spring which are the two churches The elect conteined vnder the sede of the woman and the reprobate or malignant church comprehended vnder the name of the serpentes sede To the one is promised victorie to the other is denounced by the irreuocable sentence of God the â–ª broosing of the head which is destruction and confusion I think ye will not say that he was constreined ther to by any force exterior as we speake seing he is the eternall which changeth not euer abiding Lord ouer all creatures who may and doth performe what so euer he will in heauen and in earth Then of necessitie it must folowe that this battell is appointed by his will And that do the wordes plainely beare For he saieth not I know that there shall be a battell or I will suffer and permitt as you vse to interprete such places a battel to be but he plainely saieth I will put and stablish the battel and enemitie declaring thereby that as he was the force strengthe and the conductor to the sede of the woman so wolde he most assuredly giue victorie to the same Which thing S. Augustine diligently did note and godly admonished Affirming that our condition in Christe Iesus is now better and more sure then before was the condition of Adam in his own fre will For that that he had non other strength but that which might be and was ouercome But we haue the strength that is inuincible because it is the power of the eternall This one place I say doeth most euidently proue that God willingly maketh a difference betwext man and man appointing to the one sorte victorie and lief to the other subiection and death But yet ye reply this can not be proued to be the eternall couÌ„sell of God for it is pronouÌ„ced in respect of the faith workes and obedience of the one and in respect of the infidelitie vicious liuing and inobedience of the other Your obiection which here I now intreat that after I be the les troubled hath two membres the former will I now touche abiding better oportunitie for the other Where ye alledge that this can not be proued to haue bene the eternall counsell of God becaus it was pronounced in tyme your reason appereth and is more then foolish For what is he that agaiÌ„st he plain scripture of God will affirme this reason The kingdome of heauen sâ—albe giuen in the end of the world to the elect of God therefor it was not prepared to them before the beginning Doth not I say the plaine voice of Christ condemne this vaine reason Or if I should
same And will also touche the rest of these your argumentes so briefly as I can Where ye reason that we were all created in one mā that is in Adam So were we all created in one estate c. If ye vnderstād that we were all created in one estate that is in that estate which shortly was to change becaus that God had so determined in his eternal counsell that by the fall of one his infinite mercie towardes his chosen ād seuere iudgement towardes the vessels of wraith should euidently appere in the tyme appointed by his wisdom If this I say you vnderstand that we were all created in one estate I will not contend with you Albeit in verey dede in that self same masse there were at once vessels of mercy ād vessels of wraith But because ye open yo ◠minde in the cōtrarie part saing That we were created in Adam after the image of God to lief I am compelled vtterly to dissent from you and fear not to affirme that becaus none did stand to the end in that image but all fell euē to death in Adam that therefor neither in Adam neither yet in that image as Adam had it was any created vnto lief but in Christ Iesus were all the chosen predestinate to lief euerlasting euen before that euer Adam was created as the Apostle plainely doeth witnes Where ye go about to proue by our opinion the ordinance of God in his election before the world not to be conforme to his ordinance in the creation and so consequently God to be a transgressor and inconstant ye declare your self not onely ignorāt vaine and foolishe but also irreuerent and blasphemous against gods maiestie for ye so far as in you lieth spoile him of his Godhead making him to chāge his counsell purpose and ordinance euen so oft as the creatures do chāge where we by the cōtrarie labour to explane ād not to escaip any violēce of your dartes by a bare solution as ye alledge but by the plaine scriptures openly we do affirme that as our God is eternall incomprehensible and immutable so are his counsels constant subiect to no immutabilitie nor change cōstant I say in God him self how so euer thinges change to our apprehensiō And therefor we say that neither in his election before the world neither in his creation of man to his own image and similitude was it his eternall coūsell purpose nor ordināce that all the posteritie of Adam should be saued And so can ye not proue that God destroyed any thing which he had builded Albeit to note one thing by the way Paule wold not haue bene so bold as to haue made him self check mate with God he did not I say accuse God of inconstancie neither did he appoint him to be a transgressor althogh he builded the ceremonies vnder the Law and destroied them againe But to our purpose 〈◊〉 I say destroied nothing which he had builded True it is that man destroied that image which God had builded but that building of God was but temporall and for a tyme onely but the perfect building of his churche was in Christe Iesus builded before the foundations of the world were laid which building God neuer destroied nor shall destroy but shall cōsummate the work to the praise of his holie name To him be glory In your hole reasoning of the wordes of the Apostle you do erre in this point as before I haue noted that ye make cōmon to all that which y e holie Gost maketh peculiare to gods elect for ye must first proue all to be saintes by vocation all to be blessed with spirituall benediction and to haue obeyed and all to be builded vpon the foundatiō of the Prophetes ād Apostles before y t ye be able to proue that all were elected and predestinate in Christ Iesus before all tymes That we are created in Christe Iesus vnto good workes is not to be referred as ye think to the common creation of all men in Adam but to the new and spirituall regeneration which gods children haue in Christ Iesus for the which Dauid did pray saying a cleā heart creat in me ô God which is no lesse called the creation of God then was the first creation of man for as man in his creation neither wroght neither yet could deserue to be created so honorable as he was but did suffer the power of God to worke euen as it pleased his wisdom to perfourm the work So in our new creation vnto good workes the onely grace and power of God worketh not onely the beginning but also bringeth to perfection so that what so euer be good holie or iust in vs is gods creation and not our worke God open your eies that ye may se that neither in Adam neither yet in our selues were we created to good workes but in Christe Iesus alone And then I think ye will not so much boast of your fre will Your last as after ye do reason is a plain Paralogisme that is a Sophisticall and fals argument for it stādeth on foure termes against the vse of all good and solide reasoning For thus ye procede Saing we be elect and created in Christe Iesus and seing there is no condemnation to them that be in Christe Iesus then is there no damnation neither in the election nor creation Here be plainely foure termes for in your Maior that is in the first part of your argument ye say not we were elected and created in our election and in our creation but we were elected ād created in Christ Iesus The secōd propositiō is most trew to witt that there is no condēnation to them that be in Christe Iesus to such as walk not after the fleshe but what can ye conclude hereof that no damnation say you is in election nor in creation I say your conclusion is fals and vaine for you chāge your termes putting in the last part these two wordes Election and creation where ye oght to haue rehearesed these wordes Christ Iesus for thus you may well procede we be elected ād created to good workes in Christ Iesus but to them saieth the Apostle that be in Christ Iesus there is no cōdemnation Ergo to such as be elected and newly created in Christe Iesus there is no damnation This argument is formall and true but omitting your foolishnes which oftener I am compelled to shew then gladly I wold I go forward with your wordes THE ADVERSARIE If God reprobated man afore the foundation of the world then God reprobated man before he offended And if God reprobated and damned man afore be offended then is death the reward of gods ordināce afore the world ād not the reward of sinne But the Apostle teacheth vs that by sinne death entred into the world and also that death is the reward of sinne I pray you doeth either gods lawe or mannes law condemne any man afore he hath offended I am certen ye are not able to
proue it to be sothen oght you to be ashamed to burden God with such vnrighteous iudgement Doeth not God rather forgiue the offence alredie committed Let him be your God which condemneth the innocent afore he offend But he shall be my God which perdoneth and forgiueth the offence alreadie committed which in his verie wraithe doeth think vpon mercie And so with Iob will I conclude The great God casteth away no man ANSWER How ignorantly and how impudently ye confounde the eternall purpose of gods reprobation with the iust execution of his iudgementes I haue before declared and therefor here onely resteth to admonishe the reader that most vniustly ye accuse vs in that ye say that we hold and teache that God damned man before he offended This you be neuer able to shew in any of our workes for constantly in worde and writing we affirme that man willingly fell from God and made him self slaue to sathan before that death was inflicted vpon him and so neither make we death the reward of gods ordinance neither do we burden him with vnrighteous iudgement But say with the Apostle that death is the reward of sinne and that our God is righteous in all his workes and therefor be ashamed and repēt your manifest lie That God forgiueth the sin committed and doeth remēber mercie euen when he appereth in his hote displeasure to punishe his Churche with thankes giuing and ioy we acknowledge But that thereof ye cōclud ▪ as ye say w t Iob that the great God casteth away no man we can not cease to admonishe bothe you and the readers that either ignorantly orels maliciously ye corrupt and depraue the minde of the speaker in that place Elihu saieth not as ye alledge The great God casteth away no mā but saieth Behold the mightie God casteth away none that is mightie and valiant of courage He main teneth not the wicked but he giueth iudgemēt to the afflicted And in this behalf your master Castalio who notwithstanding that he vseth to take large libertie in translation where any thing may seme to serue his purpose is more circumspect and more faithfull then you be for thus he translateth that place Althogh that God be excellent yea excellent and strong of courage yet is he not so dissolute y t either he will kepe y e wicked or denie iudgemēt to the poore Althogh I say y t here is a greater libertie thē I wold wish a faithfull translater to vse yet hath he not so corrupted y e sense as ye haue done Elihu reasonīg against Iob affirmeth that albeit y e power of God be infinit yet cā not his workes be vniust but that they are wroght in all perfectiō of iustice how beit that often as we be dull and blinde we do not vnderstand nor se at the first the causes of the same yet God giueth daily declaration of his iustice in that the preserueth and somtyme exalteth the verteouse that before were afflicted and deiecteth from honors the wicked and the cruell oppressors Be iudge your self what this serueth for your purpose THE ADVERSARIE Some other be that grant that sinne was à cause why man is reprobate and there with they hold that gods absolute ordinance is also the caus this saing conteineth cōtradiction in it self for if it be gods absolut ordinance then is it not in respect of any other thing but as they say because it hath so pleased him if they ment that gods ordinance is the cause why sinners suffer death or that God ordeined that sinners for their sinne should suffer death I could agre with them but that were contrary to that which they haue said that God absolutly ordeined any man afore he was yea afore the world to death because so it pleased him for if death be the reward of sinne and for offence and sinne we do die then cometh not death by gods absolute ordinance And if I do grant that both gods absolute ordinance and also sinne are the causes of damnation after your meanyng marke well what inconuenience foloweth thereof first ye must grant me that gods ordinance is the principall and chefest cause for it can not be inferior to any other cause secōdly ye will grant that the first or principale cause called Causa Causae is the cause of the secōd ād inferior cause called cause causate so to cōclude gods ordināce which is Causa causae shal be the cause of sinne which is Causa causata As for a familiar exemple the heate of the son and the dew cause the grounde to be frutefull and God also is the cause thereof for he maketh the barren ground frutefull but forasmuch as God is the principall and first cause he must be also the cause of the same which is but the second cause Thus it is clerely proued that if gods ordināce were the cause of reprobation then gods ordinance should also be the cause of sinne and God should be autor of euill contrarie to the hole scripture contrarie to the opinion of all godlie men and contrarie to our faith But forasmuch as God willing I intend to answer at length to this wicked opinion in the confutation of the third error I will speak no more hereof in this place ANSWER No further answer nedeth to be giuen to these your most vniust accusatiōs then those which we before haue giuen for neither do we so vnreuerētly speake nor write neither yet do we vnderstād nor affirme that gods absolute ordinance is the principall cause of reprobation of sinne and of damnation but simplie we do teache that God in his etternall counsell for the manifestation of his own glorie hath of one maste chosen vessels of honor whom before all tymes he hath geuē vnto Christe Iesus that they in him should receiue lief And of the same masse he hath left others in that corruption in the which they were to fall and so were they prepared to destruction The cause why the one were elected we confesse and knowledge not to be in mā but to be the fre grace and the fre mercie shewed and frely giuen to vs in Christe Iesus who onely is appoīted head to giue life to the bodie Why the others were reiected we affirme the cause to be most iust but yet secrete ād hid frome vs reserued in his eternall wisdome to be reueled at the glorious comming of the Lord Iesus This one thing do we compelled by your blasphemous accusations repete oftener then we wold to the end that indifferent men may se what doctrine it is which you so maliciously impugne How so euer ye ioyn gods absolute ordinance and sinne togither we make so far diuision betwext the purpose and eternall counsell of God for absolute ordinance we vse not in that mater and the sinne of mā that we plainely affirme that mā when he sinned did neither looke to gods will gods counsell nor eternall purpose but did altogither consent to the will of
the deuill which did manifestly ganesay gods reueled will And therefor do we affirme that neither was the purpose nor counsell of God any cause of sinne but we say with the Apostle that by one man did sinne enter into the world The cause whereof was the malice of the deuill and that fre consent of man to rebelliō whose will was neither inforced neither yet by any violence of gods purpose compelled to consent but he of fre will and redie mynd left God ād ioyned with the deuil Conuict vs now if ye can that we make gods absolute ordinance which maner of speaking I say we abhorre to be the principall cause of sinne Albeit that ye wold be sene subtill in adding your ▪ Logicall termes Causa causae ād Causa causata yet doeth your similitude which ye bring furth for demonstration of your purpose declare that either ye haue not learned orels that ye haue forgottē the chief and principall point of right reasoning which all reasonable men confesse to be rightly to diuide For if ye can not diuide betwext the will of God working all thinges for his own glorie ād the operation of creatures be they Son Moone sterres rayn or dew who can work nothing but as God hath appointed I will not folow you as a God We say not that gods ordinance is the cause of reprobation but we affirme that the iust causes of reprobation are hid in the eternall counsell of God and knowen to his godlie wisdō alone but the causes of sinne of death and damnation are euident and manifestly declared to vs in the scriptures to witt mānes fre will consenting to the deceiuable persuasiō of the deuill wilfull sinne and volūtarie rebellion by which entred death into this world the cōtempt of graces and gods mercies offered with the heaping vp of sinne vpon sinne till damnation iustly came These causes I say of sinne death and damnation are plainely noted vnto vs in gods holie scriptures But why it pleased God to shew merice to som and deny the same to others becaus the iudgementes of God are a deuoring depthe we enter not in reasoning with him but with all humilitie render thankes to his Maiestie for the grace and mercie which we doubt not but of his fre grace we haue receaued in Christ Iesus our onely head When you shall further charge vs that we make God autor of euill we haue good hope plainely to conuict your vennemous tongues of a most malicious lie Now to your wordes THE ADVERSARIE The Lord reasoneth with the inobedient Israelites which did forsake him saing O my people what haue I done vnto the or wherein haue I hurt the giue me answer If the Israelites had ben so well learned as you they might haue answered Lord thow hast preordinate us by thy immutable decre to fall away frome the so that of necessitie we must perish in this hast thow hurt vs with an vncurable wounde ANSWER How so euer we be learned if ye betimes repent not your vnreuerēt skoffing ād iesting at gods eternal predestination ye shall learn in experience that the immutable decre of God is most iust by the which y e fyre which neuer shall be quenched is prepared for the deuill and his angels and for all such as with trembling do not fear his godlie Maiestie and with sobrietie do not contemplat his iudgementes incomprehensible And thus I leaue your blasphemous boldnes to be repressed by the power of him whose iudgementes you mocke THE ADVERSARIE Now I intend with the helpe of God to answer to the arguments which they that be intangled with this error vse to alledge for the proof thereof leauing such as be ▪ but vaine and ingender rather contention then edefying answering to such as some most weghtie collected of certen places of the scriptures wherby it may be thoght that they may be deceaued beseching the gentill reader to wey the mater with an indifferent balance and first heare before thow refuse and God willing thow shalt not repent the of thy labor but forasmuch as the autor ād maīteners of this error do often make mention of election whereby they wold cloke their absurditeis I will first declare how election is taken in the scriptures thre maner of waies that is generally specially and most specially of all first we be all chosen and created in Christe Iesu as Paule witnesseth to the Ephesians in the first and second chapter and conforme to this election he lightned all them that cam into the world and calleth all men to repentance bothe greate and small riche and poore Iew and gētil male and female of all estates without respect of any person And all that be thirstie he calleth to come to the water of lief Secondly he commandeth them which com at the first calling to renounce father ād mother wief and childe with all other earthlie thinges yea and them selues also This is the secounde election where there departed an innumerable multitude which will not forsaik such thinges but for their own lustes Here departed Cayn with the monstrouse Giātes cruell tyrants and bloodie hypocrites and all persecuters which shed innocent bloode here departed Epicurus with all his bellie gods among which was the riche glotton which dispised Lazarus there departed Sardanapalus accompanied with venus and all that be drowned in the lustes of the fleshe Among which was Herodias There departed Cresus with many rich welthie persons among which was the rich yong man of whom we read in the Gospell that with a sorie countenance he departed frō Christe There departed Tarquinius the proude with such as be puft vp with the Pompe glorie of this world Among which was Herode◠of whom we read in the Actes of the Apostles that for his pryde he was striken of God and eaten of lyse There departed Demetrius the siluer smithe with such as will not forsak◠their filthie lucre Amongest which were the maister and mastres of the damsell possessed with a spirit that prophecied There departed a hole band of Stoikes with their destinie plaing fastor loose and that of necessitie which passeth all iuglers coming Among them are all such as defend that of mere necessitie a few nōber must be saued and of mere necessitie all the rest of the world must be condemned Who so abideth this seconde election and calling Christ commandeth them to take vp their crosse and folow him And thus to continue to the end this is the third and last election of which saieth the Lord I haue chosen the in the fire of tribulation here the seuentie disciples departed for they can not abyde this hard saing here doeth Iudas trudge they which remayn suffer greate assaultes in so much that som tyme they turn there backes to their enemies as the Apostles did when Christ was taken and there do worthie soldiours stagger stumble and fall as Peter when he denied his master and swore he knew him not And Thomas
should innocently suffer the death of the crosse But how litle doeth this releue the wilfull sinne of Pilate shall after be declared EueÌ„ such libertie and power as ye had to write these former and subsequeÌ„t blasphemies had Ananias of his land and money receiued for the same For as you being infected with heresie malice and enuie did willingly write and vtter your veÌ„nom so he being auaricious and a dissembling hypocrite did of a fre consenting heart reserue a portion to him self offering a parte to the Churche of God with protestatioÌ„ that it was the hole some thinking therebie to haue obteined the commendation and praise which hypocrites deserue not But what was gods purpose counsell and will in that behalf is euident to witt that we shall abhorre and auoid hypocrisie that we shall not abuse the simplicitie of our brethren neither yet make protestation of that thing before men affirming that to be trew which our own conscience knoweth to be fals But now to the rest THE ADVERSARIE Here I think it is good to answere to their obiectioÌ„s which they collect of Peters denying of his master If these thinges which God foreseeth to com to passe say they may be left vndone then notwithstanding that Christ did foresee that Peter should denie him Peter might yet haue not denied him I answer that notwithstanding Christ did foresee that Peter should denie him yet was not Peter compelled thereto but might haue not denied Christ well say they then should Christ haue ben a lier for he said that Peter should denie him I answer that notwithstanding that Christ so said â–ª yet might Peter haue not denied himâ— aÌ„d Christ notwithstanding should haue ben no lier the like example haue we in the first book of Samuel Dauid asked counsel at the Lord if Saul wold come to Keyla and the Lord said he will com downe then said Dauid will the men of keyla delyuer me and the men that are with me into the hands of Saul And the Lord said they will betray you Then Dauid with his men departed from key la which when Saul heard he left of from his interprise and com not to Keyla Here we se that neither gods foreknowledge which is also conforme to his saing neither yet his prophecyeing did take libertie frome Saul from the men of keyla neither from Dauid and his mâ— nother did Saul come to keyla neither the men of keyla betraied Dauid as the Lord had spoken And Dauid had libertie with his men to auoid the danger notwithstanding God had spoken it should come to passe so all they had libertie yea euen after God had pronounced what shoulde be done In so much that their doings were plaine contrarie to the prophecie of God And yet was God true for he did foresee that if Dauid did not departe frome keyla vsing such libertie as God had giuen him he with his men should be betrayed into the hands of Saule and I pray you might not Peter like wise vsing his libertie auoyd the bushopps howse and so neuer bene tempted to denie Christe Yes I am sure as well as Dauid auoided Keyla ANSWER If you be able to proue that Dauid stoode in also hote a contention against God as Peter did against his master Christ Iesus that Dauid affirmed the expressed contrarie to that which God had pronounced and that God had appointed the certen time aswell when Saule should come as when the men of keyla should betrey him then might ye haue had som coulor to haue compared and matched the deniall of Peter with the flieÌ„g of Dauid But if Peters deniall was with a dooble affirmation pronounced by the mowth of Christe Iesus and if the sentence of God bothe touching the comming of Saule and touching the vnthankfulnes of the men of keyla was conditionall ye be more theâ— bold that take vpoâ— you to ioyn togither things so diuerse Christes wordes to Peter were neither spoken nor ment vnder any condition but were pronounced as foloweth Verelie verelie I say vnto the that the cock shal not crowe till thow shall denie me thrise Which wordes leaue neither libertie fredome nor power to Peter to prouide for him self that this senteÌ„ce should not be true but the wordes and answers spoken to Dauid were according to his questions which were first if that brute of Saules coÌ„ming was true aÌ„d if the men of keyla to whom he had shewen such thankfulnes of late before should becom so ingrate that they should betrey him into the haÌ„des of Sauleâ— And God did answere that Saule should come downe and that the citezens of keyla should betray him But I trust ye will not be so impudent as to denie but that both these affirmations were spoken conditionally to assure Dauid of his doubâ—es and to giue him aduertisment that neither he shoulde abyde the hasard of Saules comming neither yet coâ—mit him self and his meÌ„ of warre to the fidelitie of those that were in keyla Be iudges now your selues how far different be the wordes spokeÌ„ to Peter and the wordes spoken to Dauid Ye procede THE ADVERSARIE But now to returne to our purpose if I shall grante that all thinges of mere necessitie must come to passe according to the prescience and fore knowledge of God then had Adam afore the traâ—sgâ—â—ssion no fre will but of mere necessitie did he offend forasmuch as God did foresee his fall Then had Christ no fre will for God did foresee all that Christ was to do then is God bound him self aÌ„d hath no libertie to do nor leaue vndone that which he doeth forasmuch as he foreseeth all his own workes This belike you will make a goodlie wise God God saue vs frome such dangerous aÌ„d horrible errors and giue vs stedfast and perfect faith to beleue not onely that he is but also that he is an omnipotent God Which frely after his own good pleasure doeth and may do or leaue vndone what so euer pleaseth him ANSWER Before I answer to the absurdities which of our doctrine ye collect I must in few wordes put you in minde that verie foolishely ye ioyn the fre will of Adame with the free will of Christe Iesus and with the libertie of God for Adams will was neuer so free but that it might as that it did coÌ„ to thraldom which weaknes you be neuer able to proue at any tyme to haue bene in Christes will further the will of Adam was alwaies vnder the impire and threatning of a law to which subiectioÌ„ I thiâ—k ye wil not bring God But now to your absurdities If say you I shall grante that all thinges of mere necessitie must com to passe according to the prescience and foreknowledge of God then had Adam afore his transgression no fre will your illation or consequence is fals for the fore knowledge and prescience of God did neither take away fre will from Adam neither yet did
be which deserueth praise MaÌ„ therefor falleth gods prouidence so ordeining but yet he falleth by his own fault for God of short time before had pronouÌ„ced that all which he had made were verey good frome wheÌ„ce theÌ„ came such wickednes to maÌ„ y t he so traterously declyned froÌ„ his God Lest that it might haue bene through that that it proceded frome the creation God approued by his own commendation whaâ— so euer he had made Therefor did man corrupt by his own malice that pure and clean nature which from God he had receaued aÌ„d by his fall he drew his hole posteritie to perditioÌ„ Therefor let vs rather behold the euident cause of damnatioÌ„ in the corrupt nature of mankind then that we shall pretend to searche it being his and vtterly incompreheÌ„sible in the predestination of God neither yet let vs be ashamed so far to subiect the capacitie of our vnderstanding to the incomprehensible wisdom of God that in manie of his mysteries we acknowledge and confesse our selues to be ignorant for learned and blessed is the ignorante of those thinges which to vnderstaÌ„d and know is neither lawfull neither yet possible in this life The apperance of knowledge in such thiÌ„ges is a kynd of madnes These be the wordes of this most godlie writer frome whose iudgement none of vs doeth dissent in this mater For froÌ„ him we must confesse except that we wold in concealing the trueth declare our selues to be vnthankfull that we all haue receaued comfort light and erudition as from gods good instrument who yet thus further procedeth There be thre thinges saeth he in this mater to be considered first that the eternall predestination of God by the which he had decreed what should becom of all maÌ„kynd yea and of euerie man euen befor that Adam fell was sure and appointed Secondly that Adame for his defection was iustly adiudged to death and last that in the personne of him that then was lost was damned his hole posteritie aÌ„d yet neuertheles God did frely choose of the same such as vpon whom it pleased him to bestow the â—onor of adoption and yet after in the same place he saieth when we speak of predestination I haue constantly taught and this day do teach that frome thence we oght to begin that iustly are all reprobat left in death who were dead and damned in Adame that iustly they perishe who by nature are the sonnes of wrath And therefor that none hath cause to complein of gods rigorous seueritie seing that all do bear the cause of damnation within them selues for if we shall com to the first man we shall find that willingly he fell and so by his one faule he broght perdition to all his posteritie And albeit that Adam fell not but that God both knew and ordeined thesame yet serueth that nothing nether to extenuat and excuse his crime nether yet to wrap God in societie of the same for alwaes must we looke to this that he spoiled him self of the righteousnes which he receaued from God that willingly he made him selfe seruant to sinne and to sathan that without compulsion he cast him self headlong in to destruction and death yet resteth one excuse to witt that he could not auoid nor flie that which was decreed by God but his voluntarie transgression is sufficient to his condemnation nether yet is the secrete counselle of God the proper and naturall cause of sinne but the fre and plaine will of man And there for seing that man findeth in him self the cause of his miserie what shall it profitt him to seke it in the heauen And after albeit that men by long compassing about purpose to delude them selues yet can they neuer make them selues so brutishe and dull but they shall fele the sense of sinne grauen in their heartes Therefor in vaine is it that vngodlines goeth about to absolue man whom his own conscience damneth In so far as God willing and knowing permitted man to fall the â–ª cause may be secrete and hid but vniust it can not be And yet he further writeth this saieth he is to be holden without all controuersie that sinne was euer hatefull to God for most rightely doth this commendation wherewith of Dauid he is commended aggre to him that he is a God that wold not iniquitie but rather in ordeining the fall of maÌ„ his eÌ„d and purpose was good and most right frome the which the name of sinne abhorreth howbeit I say that so he hath ordeined the fall of man that I vtterly denie him to be the author of sinne Let the indifferent reader iudge with equitie if iustly we be accused of that blasphemie which so openlie we abhorre but yet in the same book he bringeh furth a testimonie of Augustine who thus writeth These be the great workes of God saieth Augustine broght to passe in all his willes and so wisely broght to passe that whill the nature of Angell and man had sinned that is had done not that which he that is God wold but that which the self meaning the creature wold yet not the les by the same will of the creature by the which that was done which the creator wold not did he fulfill that which he wold he being infinitely good vsing well those thiÌ„ges that were euil to the damnation of them whom he iustly had appointed to paine and to the saluation of those whom mercifully he had predestinate to grace In so far as to them perteined they did the thing which God woâ—d not but as apperteining to gods omnipotencie they might by no meanes haue done that for euen in that that they did against the will of God the will of God was done in them and therefor great are the workes of the Lord broght to passe in all his willes that by a woÌ„derous and vnspeakable maner that thing should not be done without his will that yet is don agaiÌ„st his will foâ— it should not be done if he did not suffer it And of a trueth he suffered it not vnwilingly but willingly And a litil before saint Augustin saieth it is not to be doubted but that God doeth well permitting those thinges to be done which are euil for he suffered not this but in his iust iudgement Albeit therefor that these thinges which be euill in so far as they ar euill are not good yet neuertheles it is good that not onely good thinges but also that euill thinges be for if that this were not good that euil thinges should be by no meanes should they be permited to be by the omnipoteÌ„t good to whom no doubt it is a like easie not to suffer the thing which he will not to be as to do that thing which he will except we beleue this the beginning of our faith is indangered by the which we professe our selues to beleue in God the father almightiâ— c. And in the end to answer to these calumnies which ye haue taken furth of Pighius that papist
theÌ„ that God worketh by creatures this impedeth not but that the wicked work also vpoÌ„ theire part which thing the scripture most euidently declareth for as it pronounceth that God will whissill aÌ„d blow as it were the truÌ„pet to call aÌ„d bring furth to battell the vnfaithfull so ceaseth it not to make meÌ„tioÌ„ of theire own couÌ„sell aÌ„d ascribeth to theÌ„ both a will aÌ„d a work which they did execute vnder the decre of God The other exception of the which these vnhappie libertines take no head is that there is a greate differeÌ„ce betwext thework of God aÌ„d thework of the wicked wheÌ„ that God vseth him in stede of aÌ„ instrumeÌ„t The wicked maÌ„ is prouoked to iniquitie ether by auarice aÌ„bitioÌ„ enuie or crueltie nether yet looketh he to any other end or purpose and therefor the worke taketh the qualitie from the roote from the which it springeth that is frome the wicked affectioÌ„ of the mynd and the mischeuous end which he looketh vnto and therefor iustly is it iudged euill but God altogither hath a contrarie respect to witt that he may exercise his iustice to the conseruation of the good to vse his fauor and gentilnes towardes the faithfull and that he may punish such as haue deserued Consider how we must make difference betwext God and man that vpon the one parte we shall behold his iustice his goodnes and his iudgements and vpon the other part we shall consider in the self same work the malice and enuie of the deuill and of the wicked Let vs take a bright and clear glasse in the which we may behold these thiÌ„ges When the message of the losse of all his goodes came to Iob the sodan death of his sonnes and so manie calamities which all at once fell vpoÌ„ him He doeth acknowledge that he was visited by God saing The Lord gaue all these thinges and it is he that hath taken them away and no doubt so it was But in the mean time do we not know that the deuil procured all these thinges and did not he vnderstaÌ„d by narration of his seruants that escaped that the chaldeis had driuen away his bestiall and flockes Did he commeÌ„d those brigandes and spoilers or oght we to excuse the deuill becaus that all these calamities proceded from God Not so for bothe we and he do and did vnderstand that there was a great difference betwext their purposes And therefor he yet damning the euill said the Name of the Lord be blessed The same may we say of Dauid but at this tyme it sufficeth that God so worketh by his creatures and so doeth vse them to his prouideÌ„ce that the instrument by the which he worketh ceaseth not to be euill And albeit that he conuert the malice of the deuill and of wicked men to good yet they therefor are neither excusable neither yet clean from sinne and their workes are wicked and to be damned for all workes take their qualitie of the purpose and the will of the author Who so euer maketh no distinction betwext these thinges maketh an horrible confusion And such be the libertines who as before is said do not onely ioyn the deuill in societie with God but also do transforme him in to God iudgeing his workes worthie of praise vnder this coulor that he doeth nothing but that which is appointed by God But contrarie wies we oght to obserue that the creatures do woâ—k their own workes in this earthe which workes according as they were directed to this or that end so are they to be iudged either good or euill and yet God gouerneth and doeth moderat all things and guideth them also to a right end He turneth the euill into good or at least God working by the goodnes of his nature draweth as it were by violence som good furth of that which in the self is euill So doeth he vse the deuil that he doeth not mixe him self with him neither to be in felowshipe with him neither yet with his wicked fact neither that his iustice shal put away the nature of the deuil for as the son sending furth his beames and heat to the carion and so ingendreth in it som corruption draweth to it self neither corruptioÌ„ neither yet any filthines neither yet doeth the son by his puretie aÌ„d birghtnes so purge the carioÌ„ but that it remaineth stincking and corrupt so doeth God so work by the wicked that the iustice which is in hiÌ„ doeth not iustifie theÌ„ neither yet is he defyled by their wickednes and corruptioÌ„ The third kinde of gods operation coÌ„sisteth in the gouernaÌ„ce of the faithful in whom he liueth aÌ„d reigneth by his spirit In so far as we are corrupt by original sinne we be lyke to the drie and barren grounde which produceth no good frute for our iudgement is corrupt our will rebellious euer redie to euill and finally our hole nature is nothing elles but a lompe of sinne And therefor not onely can we not applie our selues to any good action but we are not able nor sufficienâ— to conceaue one good thoght as Paul doeth witnes but if we be able to anâ— thing of necessitie that must procede froÌ„ God It is he therefor that worketh in vs both to wil and to performe he doeth illuminate vs and lead vs to the knowledge of him self he draweth vs to him self and by softening our heartes he formeth new heartes in vs. further it is he who moueth in vs a desire of prayiÌ„g he giueth power and strength to resist all the tentations of sathan and maketh that we do walk in his commandements But yet we must consider that of nature we haue both will and election but because they are both depraued by sinne the Lord reformeth theÌ„ aÌ„d of euill maketh them good That we therefor be apt to discerne that we haue a will that we do this or that this is a naturall gift but that we can chouse desyre or do nothing but that which is euil that cometh of the corruption of sinne that we thirst to do good that we haue som power to execute the same this procedeth from the supernaturall grace by the which we are regenerat and newly born to a better and more godlie life Behold then what God worketh in his children first putting away their peruerse nature he coÌ„ducteth aÌ„d guy deth theÌ„ by his holie spirit in obedience of his wil. But these dronken or rather furious libertines crying that al things are wroght by God do make him author of euil And further euen as the nature of the euill were changed when it is cloked vnder the couerture of gods name they affirme it to be good in the which they do greater iniurie and coÌ„tume lie vnto God then that they should transfer his power and iustice to an other For seiÌ„g there is nothing more proper vnto God theÌ„ is his goodnes it behoueth first y â— he should vtterly denie him self before that he can work euill which thing these
two golden calues to make the people sacrifice at Bethel wherupon followed the wrath of God Of their siluer and gold haue they made them images to bring themselues to destruction The Israelites made them images thinking thereby to be saued and not destroied yet their destruction followed thereof Ieremie saieth Omy mother alas that euer thow diddest beare me to be a brawler aÌ„d a rebuker of the hole land Ieremies mother did not bear him to that intent but yet this was the end And in the new Testament if any man hunger lett him eat at home that ye com not togither to condeÌ„nation the Corinthians came not togither to the intent to purchesse thereby condemnatioâ— but of their abuses in comming togither followed their condemnation By these places and many others we may vnderstand the phrase of scriptures That they be ordeined to damnation whose end is condemnation which they receaue not by the will of God which wold all men to be saued but as a iust reward for their sinnes As the traitor which suffereth oght not to impute his death to the sentence which the iudge iustly hath giuen against him but to his own offence and treason so when we for our sinnes be ordeined to punishement we oght not to impute it to gods fore ordinaÌ„ce which is both good and full of mercie but to our own offences And seing as S. Paul saieth God suffered them with greate pacience their damnation cometh not by the counsell and will of God for which he is sorie as he saieth by the prophete Ieremie I haue bene sorie for the so long that I am werie will ye say that God werieth him self suffering aÌ„d sorowing for them whom he had reprobated afore the world surelie I think that thoghe ye hitherto haue vnaduisedly said so ye will from hence furthe say so no more which God graÌ„te in tyme that ye werie not the lord also with sorowing for you ANSWER As your cogitatioÌ„s of God be grosse and carnall so be your iudgemeÌ„tes in this place of scripture deceuable and most erroneouse Esteme it no iniurie that I affirm your cogitations of God to be carnall aÌ„d grosse For I can euidently proue that som of you affirm and maintein that God hath eies fete handes armes and finally all proportion of man that he slepeth and doth againe awake that he forgetteth and after doth remember that he is mutable and doth in verie dede repent If these cogitations of the eâ—ernall God be not carnall yea if they be not wicked aÌ„d deuelish let the godly indifferent reader iudge In this your long gradation which ye make vpon the wordes of Paule ye coÌ„clud contradiction to the holie Gost and to the plaine wordes of the Apostle For the Apostle meaneth and plainely speaketh that albeit God doth long suffer and delay the iudgement of the reprobate yet cease they not to be vesseâ—les of wrath as they that are ordeined to perdiâ—ion But you conclude the coÌ„trarie affirming that he hath not ordeined them to fal And so because you conclude directly against the holie Gost I can not cease to say that your collectioÌ„ is erroneouse But to giue an answer more full and large in examining the partes of your gradatioÌ„ I will shew your error aÌ„d the cause thereof first you say seing God suffered them with greate pacieÌ„ce he is sorie for them here I say in your first foundation lieth your error and the cause thereof is that altogether ye are ignoraÌ„t of gods nature in whom nether falleth such sufferance such pacieÌ„ce nor such sorow as you grosly imagin God is omnipotent and is compelled to suffer nothing which he hath not appointed in his eternall counsell he is a Spirit aÌ„d fre from all such passions as creatures be subiect vnto for in his eternall Godhead there is nether pacience subiect to paine nether yet sorowe annexed with angwishe and grief But when such passions be attributed vnto God it is for the weaknes of our vnderstanding that the holie Gost doth subiect him self in langage and tongue to our capacitie Ye take libertie to your self in dyuers other phrases to explaine them as you please yea euen against the plaine scripture And why will ye not permitt that such phrases be so vnderstand as nothing be iudged vpon gods Maiestie which doth not aggre with his godlie nature ye do far abuse the mynd of the Apostle for he doth not inferre as you foolishly and wickedly do that becaus God did suffer with great pacience therefor he was sorie but saieth he did suffer the vesselles ordeined to destruction that vpon the one sort his wrath and power and vpon the other that is vpon the elect the riches of his glorie might be knowen This were sufficient to put silence to your folie But yet somwhat to instruct the simple I will som what trauale to make these wordes of the Apostle sensible and plane He had before concluded that God wold haue mercie vpon whom he wold haue mercie and whom it pleased him those did he harden As this sentence far surmounted mannes capacitie so might it engender som doubtes in the heartes of the verey godlie For they might haue reasoned if that God will finally destroy all the reprobate to what purpose are they now permitted to triumphe and to trooble the elect of God In answering to which doubt the Apostle assigneth three reasons why God with great pacience suffereth the vesselles of wrath To witt that his power his wrath and the riches of the glorie of his mercie more euidently may appere be knowen For if God should sodanly from the bellies of their mothers take away the reprobat or if he should in the beginning of their malice so break downe their pryde that they could not procede against him nether should his power appere so great nether yet his wrathe so iust and so holie But when he doth suffer them as he did Pharao from one mischief to procede to an other often remouing his plagues and so declaring him self easie to be entreated euen vnto such tyme as their malice and raige do carie them as it were openly to dispyse God and his power when then I say in one moment God potently doth ouer throwe the force streÌ„gth of his ennemies as y t he did of Pharao Senacherib Balsasar and of others then is his godlie power and most iust wrathe more euidently knowen then that he should ether haue repressed them in the beginning ether yet haue taken them away before their malice began to budde For hereby doth he not onely admonish others of the certen destruction of all those that continue in crueltie but also giueth to his Churche most singulare comfort letting them se that his prouidence and power watcheth for them euen when the raige of the ennemie appereth to deuore al. And so do they se what is gods mercie towardes them Further wheÌ„ the elect aduisedlye do consider what be gods seuere
no difference betwext those two dictions or wordes The Lord of his mercie preserue his Churche frō so bolde so deceatfull teachers If altogither thou haddest bene ignorant with sorow of heart I could haue lamēted thy foolishenes but pererauing y e of set purpose and malice willingly to corrupt gods plaine scriptures that thow may blynd the more easely the eies of the simple with grief ād dolor I say that better it had bene for the neuer to haue bene born thē thus obstinatly to fight agaīst gods plaine trueth And that in such furie that where from the scriptures thou canst haue none assurance for thy error yet so thow darest wrest them y t they may seme to serue thy purpose Where so euer thou cāst wrest any place that it may be translated by this englishe To there thow ashamest not to affirm y t it is the self same phrase with this of S. Paule vesselles of wrathe prepared or ordeined to destruction This is sufficient to shew to the learned yea euen to such as do but vnderstand the firstprinciples of their grammer thy infidelitie ād craftie deceat in this mater But because such as vnderstand nothing in the latin tongue can not hastely espie thy craft I will trauale to make it so sensible as I can If I should say I am appointed to death to fele the punyshement of sinne and so to make sinne to cease will thow therefor say that this particle To in the former place where I say I am appointed to death and in the second place where I say to sele the punishement of sinne and to make sinne to cease are all one phrase and oght a like to be resolued I suppose thow wilt not for in the first place it cā be none other wies resolued but thus I am appointed to death that is I must nedes die but in the secōd place two causes of death be assigned for where I say to fele the punishemen◠of sinne I vnderstand that one cause of death is that I and all mē may fele how horrible is sinne before God and in this last I vnderstād that death so putteth an ēd to sinne that after it may not trooble the elect of God The phrase of S. Paule is much more different from all that thow adducest then be these phrases before alledged one differen◠frome an other for where he saieth vesselles of wrath ordeined to destruction he signifieth the final end of the vessels of wrath to be ordeined and before determined in gods eternall counsell And in all these places to prouoke the Lord to anger to defyle my Sanctuarie to kyndle gods wrath against Israel to make Israel sinne and such like are their actions signified to be the causes of gods anger gods wrath and why he reputed his Sanctuarie polluted Thus thy frowardnes causeth me to trooble the simple reader The place of leremie tho v maliciously doest peruerte for it cā be in nowies so trāslated But what tōgue so euer thow doest follow thow must say wo be to me O my mother that thus hast born me a man that am a brawler and a man of contention in the hole land The place of Paule 1. Cor. 11. serueth nothing for thy purpose for albeit there be a preposition ad which truely may be translated To yet that speach is far differente from the former speach of the Apostle for where he saieth Eat at home that ye come not togither to condemnation he doth admonish them of the danger which they know not w c was that such inordinat and riatouse banqueting ioyned with the cōtēpt of the poore without repentance must bring condemnation if thow list replie alledge that thow stickest not somuch to the termes as to the mater ▪ for in all these former speaches man pretēded one thing but an other thing ensued What cāst thow thereof conclude but that gods purpose sentence and mynd is not subiect to mannes purpose and intention True it is that nether Pharao did resist Moises of purpose to be plagued nether did Ieroboam erect the calues that Israel should be destroied but yet becaus God had so before pronounced ineuitably plagues and destruction did follow their inobedience If hereof ye will conclude as ye seme to do that those whose end is condemnatiō receaue not that by y e will of God because ye cōclude that which neither ye haue proued neither yet go about in this place to proue I will not trouble my self with answering for this present But whē ye shal go about to proue that God will all men to be saued as ye affirme I hope by gods grace to answer sufficiently For as we doubt not but gods iudgemētes are holie and most iust so we know that the conscience of the wicked shall fele in them selues and no where elles the causes of their condemnation Neither yet did any of vs euer hold beleue or affirme that any reprobate shall haue that libertie in the hell to quarell with God of the secrete causes of his condemnatiō for the bookes shall be opened and the secretes of all heartes shall be reueled To the suffering pacience and sorowing of God I haue before answered in the beginning of this your last confused gradation and so I will not trouble the reader with the repetition of the same The wordes of Ieremie which ye alledge can haue no such sentence as ye do gather for he doeth not speak of any passion that was in God as touching his eternall Godhead but onely doeth appeall to the conscience of the people how oft God had not onely rebuked but also from time to time corrected them euer calling them to repētance and suspēding their last punishment how beit that they continually from euil fell backward vnto worse And so at length was God werie oftener to repent that is to say at once he wold powre furth his iust vēgeāce which before so oft he had threatned Let the first chapter of Isaiah be commentarie to this place and I trust the sentence shall be plaine For there he affirmeth that in that people there was no hole part that is all order and policie was almost confounded Ierusalem was in a maner left desolate by the manifest plagues which had apprehended it but yet there was no trew conuersion vnto God And here he saieth thow hast left me saieth the Lord and I haue therefor lifted vp myn hād vpon the and haue scattered the. I am werie in repenting that is that I haue spared the so long I shall scatter them with the fan euen vnto the gates of the earth that is to the vttermost parte I haue made my people desolate and I haue destroyed them neuertheles they haue not turned frō their waies I trust y t euerie reasonable man will cōsider y t those wordes be rather spoken to admonish the people how God by all meanes had prouoked them to repentance then to declare vnto vs what nature or
Christ Iesus is so manifest and the power of his trueth so inuincible that he will reigne in the midest of his ennemies The deuilles them selues must acknowledge and openly confesse that he is Lord and the onely Son of the liuing father and the aduersaries of his trueth euen when they fight most outrageously against the same are coÌ„pelled to giue testimonie to it as you do here in diuers places as wheÌ„ ye say it foloweth not y t because we must walke in y e way that leadeth to life that therefor for walking in the way of saluation we are chosen and as you write accepted But because I say that your inconstancie doeth streight carie you to denial of this I caÌ„ the les credit that this be a trew confession proceding from an vnfeined heart but rather that it is the mightie power of the veritie which will ye nill ye compelleth your mowthes to giue witnessing vpon her part against your selues God grant I may be deceaued in this my iudgement for him I take to record that I am no otherwies ennemie to any of you then in so far as ye declare your selues manifest ennemies to y e fre grace of God aÌ„d to the glorie of y e eternal SoÌ„ne of y e eternal father of Christ Iesus our Lord aÌ„d onely Sauiour Becaus there is nothing in this your last part w c I haue not before at large declared in diuerse places I wil onely note those thiÌ„ges in the w c we do not aggre with you First we vse not to call predestinatioÌ„ the fre gift of God but we call it the eternall and immutable couÌ„sell of God in which he hath purposed to choose to lief euerlasting such as pleased his wisdom in Christ Iesus his Son Secondly we say that ye are neuer able to proue by the parable of the talentes that any reprobate was chosen in Christ to life euerlasting Thirdly that we fynd neither contract neither condition betwext the louing Father and the prodigall son in his admission to his former dignitie neither do we so vnderstand the parable as that the said son newly receaued to mercie wold after of stubbornes vnthaÌ„kfully depart from his father But rather we think that as he had felt what miserie he susteined by folowing his own counselles he wold in tymes comming with all diligence attend the counselles of his father Your mynd is dark to vs and your writing obscure where that ye say before we haue faith or by hearing of the worde can haue faith no spirituall commandement is giuen vnto vs. and also the wordes of saint Paule appere not to be well applied for there he entreateth no thing of election but onely affirmeth that in the dispensation of that ministerie committed to his charge he knew him self giltie in nothing c. but because these be of small importance I onely put you in remembrance of them Last your similitude betwext your PhisitioÌ„ offering medicin and prescribing diet to the patient who may receaue and kepe it at his pleasure and so recouer healthe and preserue his life orels reiect and break it and so procure his own destruction and betwext Christ Iesus who say you being our Phisition offereth healthfull phisike vnto vs all and therewith prescribeth our diett which if we do not obserue the phisike shall not auale vs c. This similitude in one respect doeth altogither mislyke vs. For it taketh from our soueraign Lord his chief glorie and honor for in no wies can we abyde that his mightie power and operation by his holie spirit shal be compared to the power of any creature We say not we teach not nor beleue not that Christ Iesus doeth onely offer medicin and prescribe a diet as a common Phisition leauing the vsing and obseruation of it to our will and power But we affirme that in the heartes of his elect he worketh faith he openeth their eies he cureth their leprosie he remoueth and ouercometh their inobedience yea by violence he pulleth theÌ„ furth of the bondage of Sathan and so sanctifieth them by the power of his holie Spirit that they abyde in his veritie according as he hath praied for them and so continue they vessels of his glorie for euer And herein we disseÌ„t froÌ„ you as afterward more plainely shal appere in discussing of this which you thus terme THE ADVERSARIE The second error of the careles by necessitie The elect thogh they sinne greuously â–ª yet are they neuer owt of the fauâ—r and electioÌ„ of God neither caÌ„ they by any meanes finally perishe So that Adam when he transgressed and Dauid committing adulterie and homicide were fauored euen then and beloued of God aÌ„d neuer owt of election nether could they be Againe the reprobate as Saul and Iudas were neuer in the fauor and election of God neither could they nor none other reprobate attein vnto saluation ANSWER The trueth of this proposition doeth nothing excuse your malice and hatered for albeit there be no senteÌ„ce in it conteined w e beiÌ„g rightly vnderstaÌ„d is not aggreable to gods worde yet of what purpose and mynd ye haue gathered these sentences leauing those that should explaine the same it easely may appere by that vennom which ye spew furth against vs to make vs odious to all the world as here foloweth THE ADVERSARIE The confutation of the second error Here you se how they deuide all men into two sortes one elected or chosen which by no meanes can perishe and the other reiected or reprobate before the world so that by no meanes can they be saued What can the deuill wishe his membres to teach more for the aduancement of his Kingdom then this What can be inuented to prouoke men to liue a careles and libertyne life more then if they be persuaded that neither well doing auaileth or pleaseth God nor euill doing doeth hinder vnto saluatioÌ„ this is asmuch as if one should counsell the pacient to refuse all healthfull Phisick and good diet and so wilfully to be the occasion of his own death for if they be say they of the elect sorte thogh they do commit theft fornicatioÌ„ adulterie murther or any other sinne yet be they still so beloued and fauored of God that they can not finally perish And if they be of the reprobate sorte say they neither repetance amendement of life absteining frome euill neither fasting praier Almes nor other good dede can auale for they be so hated of God before the world that by no meanes they can obtein his fauor but of mere necessitie do what they can they must perish seing it is so saieth the naturall maÌ„ let vs set the cock on hoope aÌ„d let the world slyde let vs eate and drinke for to morow shall we die so the people sit downe to eat and drink and then ryse vp to play why masters haue ye no conscience thus to cause the people of God to sinne se ye not how ye be led with the same
And in what estate did I leaue you Trie and examin your selues in what estate ye do yet stand you can not be vnsensible you can not be so ignorant but ye must know whether that Christ dwelleth in you or no. If you will acknowledge and coÌ„â—es that Christ dwelleth in you then must ye nedes confes that I am an Apostle For by my labors and preaching did you receaue Christ Iesus And if to deface my labors and to defraud me of that honor which God of his mercie hath giueÌ„ vnto me ye list deny that ether ye receaued Christ Iesus ether yet that he remaineth in you then do ye confes your selues reprobates Paule doth not absolutely define that they were reprobates but putteth in to their choise whether they wold confes that Christ Iesus did remaine in them by faith which they had receaued by the preaching of Paule and so wold admitt him to be an Apostle or to grante that they had nothing to do with Christ and so to confes them selues reprobates Now let the indifferent reader iudge whether that ether faithfully ye cyte the text ether that righteously ye conclude vpon the same The Apostle saieth not except that Christ dwell in you yow are reprobates but saieth as before I haue alledged do ye not know your selues that Christ Iesus is in you except that in som what ye be reprobates And albeit that the wordes were such as ye recite how can you therof conclude Dauid and Adam were reprobates when they sinned seing that Paule in that place maketh mencion of no other sinne except of the denial of Christ to remain in them of their ingratitude towardes him whom God had appointed preacher vnto them and of giuing eare credite to fals Apostles sclaÌ„derers of Christes true messingers â–ª how iustly I might turn Paules wordes vpoÌ„ your heades you easely may espie but all such reasoning I do from my heart abhorre If ye can be able to proue that Adam refused the grace offered or that Dauid did storme against Nathan ether affirming or suspecting him to be a fals prophete then had your argument som probabilitie for onely of such and to suche speaketh the Apostle in that place Thus doth â—ther your ignorance or malice wresting the scriptures against their natiue sense compell me to trouble the reader muche more then I wold if any sinceritie were found in you We do constantly affirme that by the sinne of one man did death enter in to the world for Adam did not onely lose him self but also did with him self wrap all his posteritie in sin death and damnation so that Adam and all his sonnes were in him lost But thereof it doth not follow as ye affirme that therefor they were out of the election from the transgression vnto the promes for as before we haue plainely proued they were elected in Christ Iesus before the foundacioÌ„s of y â— world were laied in whom they did stand elected and beloued euen wheÌ„ they fell in AdaÌ„ at which time y e electioÌ„ which from all eternitie was kept in the counsell of God began to be notified and manifested to mannes knowledge The fall and sinne of man was the way and meanes by the which gods election did appere but was not the cause why that it was destroied And so if with reuereÌ„ce ye coulde consider the mysterie of our redemption in Christ Iesus ye shoulde plainely se that it behoued all to die in Adam that the elect might receaue life in Christ Iesus alone The wordes of Christ Iesus our master rehearsed by the Euangelist S. Iohn ye do shamefully abuse for in that place he intreateth not whether a sinner duriÌ„g the time of his blindnes and sinne is appointed to damnation or not nether yet whether such as before haue had knowledge as Adam and Dauid had be altogether void of faith by reason of sinne after committed None of these two poiâ—tes I say doth our Master in that place intreat But vnto Nichodemus he plainely declareth that the cause of life is faith and the cause of condemnation is incredulitie and vnbe leif Not that Christ Iesus affirmeth that euerie man that is vnfaithfull at any tyme is or shal be condemned for God hath wrapped all vnder vnbelief y t he may haue mercie vpoÌ„ all as S. Paul confesseth him self to haue bene a persecuter and vnfaithfull But the true meaning of Christ is y t such as dispyse y e light offered remaine invnbelief to y e eÌ„d haue their condemnation alredie appointed as contrary wise who so euer with full obedience do steadfastly beleue the same shall haue the life euerlasting not withstanding the manifest tran sgressions of the law The rest of this part is be fore answered and thereforâ— I will not with repeticion trouble the reader for ye be neuer able to proue that Adame and Dauid were so out of the loue of God that he did not loue them in Christ his Sonne in whom they were elected Dauid was no suche mankiller as was Cayn of whom Saint Iohn speaketh who delited in blood to the end Nether did NathaÌ„ shew nor Dauid pronounce any suche iudgemeÌ„t against him self as ye imagin but being conuicted in in his own conscience how horribly he had offended he did heare not withstanding that ioyfull sentence The Lord hath taken a way thy sinne thow shalt not die c. Which sentence no doubt proceded frome that immutable loue w c was reserued to him in Christ Iesus euen when he was fardest declined from God It will be hard for you to proue by euident scriptures that Dauid was altogither void of faith but granting that he as concerning his own sense and feling was vtterly dead yet doth it not thereof follow that so he displeased God that he fell from the loue and fauor of God as touching his electioÌ„ for the Apostle vpon whose wordes ye seme to grounde your reason meaneth not that the lack of faith in all persons at all tymes and in all respectes doth so displease God that he hateth them and reiecteth them to death euerlasting For childreÌ„ for a tyme lacke faith and yet Crist pronounceth that their Angelles do se the face of his father and that the kingdoÌ„ of heauen apperteineth to such Thomas was vnfaithfull euen after Christes resurrectioÌ„ And yet did he not so displease his maister as before we heaue touched but that he did sekeâ— him and did remoue his incredulitie And Christ Iesus did rebuke the vnbelief of his disciples and the hardnes of their heartes but yet did he not vtterly dispyse them But now to the rest ADVERSARIE But if the scripures will not satisâ—ie you then must you be beaten with your own râ—d for if I grante you that all men did not fall out of gods holie election unto coÌ„dennation by Adams traÌ„sgressâ—on it followeth therupon that the coÌ„ming of Christ his procious death and passioâ— is superfluous vaine and of none effecte So by your
the expressed image of his substance is greater then euer was Adam so is his power of greater vertue to saue the elect then Adams impotencie was to bring damnation vpon all Where ye ask if our election be surer now after the transgression then afore the transgression I answere the assurance and firmitie of our election was alwaies and at all times one For when we stode in Adam as ye alledge yet were we elected in Christ ▪ and when we fel in Adam then did our election burst for the and appere Ye be neuer able to proue that Cain was elected to life euerlasting in Christ Iesus for God loked not to Cain nor yet to his sacrifice as that he did to Abel And why because as the Apostle affirmeth the one offered in faith and the other without faith Remembre I pray you your former reason there is none say you elected without faith but Cain was without faith euen before he did kil or hate his brother therefor by your owne reason he was not in y e election no not euen before he hated I do not approue this argument but yet your former reason standing true it is inuincible Moises saieth not that God promised dominion to Cain ouer his lustes but saieth vnto thee shal his appetites or lustes be thow shall beare dominion ouer him which is not spoken of sinne but of Abel who as he was the yōger so was he appoīted to be subiect to Cain and to serue him and therefor most vniustly did he hate him It is the same phrase that before was spoken of the woman concerning her subiection to man Such as haue but mean knowledge in the hebrew text know well that bothe these articles be of the masculin gendre the substātiue which signifieth sinne in that place is of y e feminin gēdre therefor wil not y t proprietie of the tongue suffer y t dominion promised be referred to sinne where blasphemously ye aske if god gaue Cain no power to subdue his lust who was thē y e author of his sinne I answer Cain him self for he was not lyke to a dead and vnsensible sworde as ye adduce the similitude but he was a reasonable instrumēt infected by the venom of Satā from the whiche he not being purged could do nothing but serue the deuil and his owne lustes against gods expressed will and commandement I haue before proued taht God is the cause of no mās damnation but sinne in which they are fallen is the very cause which all reprobates do find in them selues Touching the fidelitie of God who suffereth none of his to be tempted aboue their strength it is onely true of Gods elect to whom it is plaine that Paul there speaketh for albeit that amonges the Corinthians there were many reprobates yet doth Paul addresse his style as it were to the elect Church of God calling them his beloued willing them to flie from idolatrie and speaking to them as vnto men indued with wisdome c. And therefore must ye first proue that Cain had as great testimonie of God that he was his elect as the Corinthians had of Paule y t they were beloued and elected in Christ before that ye can make this place to serue for him for albeit he did aduertise him what was his duetie to do yet doth it not thereof follow that he gaue him power to obey his will reueled nether yet power to resist all tentation To Pharao he did no les make manifest his will then that he did to Cain and yet of him he did before pronounce that he should not heare nor obey the voice of Moises I do not denie but that he stubbornly foresooke the counsell of God whiche mercifully called him But why did he and do all reprobate forsaik it we haue oft before declared to witt because the sede of God abideth not in them What was the benediction giuen after the floode vnto Noah and to his sonnes the holie Gost doth not conceale to witt multiplication preseruation and the restitutiō of all thinges as touching the order of nature like as they were before that vastation by reason of the waters which had so long continued In that place is no mention made of election to life euerlasting in Christ Iesus and therefor your connexion that Ham was not reprobat when he was blessed of God is foolishe for albeit that none can be both blessed and cursed loued and hated all at once in that degre of loue or of hatered w c God frely beareth in Christ to his elect and most iustlie hateth the reprobate for the causes knowen to his visdom yet in an other sort it is no repugnancie to say that God both blesseth and loueth in bestowing tempoall benedictions vpon such as in his eternall counsell he hath reiected and therefor hateth As it is no repugnancie to say that God bothe blesseth and loueth his elect children euen when most seruerely he doth chasten and punishe them To all y t which ye adduce of the Israelites my former answers may suffice for you be neuer able to proue that any of thē which was chosen to lief euerlasting did fall into death eternall It nothing hurt y ◠saluation of Moises albeit his bodie fell in the wildernes That place of Paule proueth not that all the Israelites which was called from Egypt were within gods holie election to lief euerlasting in Christ Iesus but doth proue y t they were all externally called and y t they did all cōmunicat with those externall signes and sacremēts w c did signifie represent spirituall thinges but he doth not affirm y t all did receaue y e spiritual and inward graces of the holie Gost. The mynd of the Apostle is plaine ynough in y t place to such as willingly list not blynd them selues For he exhorteth the Corinthians not to think it sufficient that they did commuicat with the sacramentes of Christ Iesus except that a godlie lief vnfeined obediēce to gods will reueled should be ioyned with the same for otherwise the same should happen vnto them that happened to the Israelites And therefor he saieth let him that standeth take hede lest he fall which is nothīg contrarie to our doctryne nether yet is our doctrine in any iote repugnant to y e holie Gost. for we did neuer denie but y t many who before mē had a faire glister of holynes yea which thoght thē selues sure in their own fantasie hath taken horrible falles bothe of one sort of y e other And vnto all mē we cry no les then you do that they tēpt them selues y t they take hede lest by slothfulnes they fall but y t any y t standeth in Christ Iesus and in the eternall counsale of God can so fall that finally he perishe that we cōstantly denie Behold how smothly God conducteth our tossed bote through the raiging waues of your furious argumentes The fall of the
any ask to what purpose was Saul then elected king I answer because so it pleased gods wisdom to tempt his people to tempt the tribe of Iudah yea and all the faithfull that then were a liue to tempt them I say whether they wolde still depend vpon gods promes look for their felicitie euen by the same meanes that God had foresopken how so euer thinges appered to the contrarie for a ceason The hole people no doubt yea and Samuel him self were partlie criminall in that point that they looked for saluation and for delyuerance from all their ennemies by the hādes of any other then by one of the tribe of Iuda considering that the former prophecie was so plaine But y t error he did first correct in his prophet shewing vnto him iust causes why Saul was vnworthie of that great honor and after he did correct the same in the people mouing their hartes to elect Dauid whom the prophet had before anointed And so did God retein y ◠firmitie of his counsel and did perfourme the same when all things appered Plainelie to repugne to his promes yea when men had receaued an other to be their king then God by his former promes had appointed We nether denie the supernaturall wisdom and manifold graces giuen to Salomon nether yet his most horrible fall to be a document and a memoriall for euer of his abominable idolatries and most vnthankfull defection from God which onelie one example we affirme oght to admonish euery man most carefully to examin him felf with what simplicitie he walketh before gods Maiestie But whether that Salomon so became the sonne of y e deuil that after he did neuer returne to God but y t finally he did perish we dare not be bolde to pronoūce sentēce And y t because to vs it appereth y t God did make vnto him a promes of mercie his greuous offence not withstanding for this did God speak by Nathan of him when thy daies shal be fulfilled thou shalt slepe with thy fathers and I will sett vp thy sede after the which shal procede out of thy body and wil stablish his kingdome he shall buyld an house for my name I wil stablish the throne of his kingdome for euer I will be his father and he shal be my sonne and if he sinne I wil chasten him with the rodde of men and with the plagues of the children of men But my mercy shal not departe away from him as I toke it frō Saul whome I haue put away before thee c. howsoeuer ye list to vnderstand this fre mercy promised to abide after in iquitie committed you cānot denie but that a plaine difference is made betwext Salomō Saul And if ye think that nothing spoken in that place did appertein to Salomō who was born before that Dauid had finished his daies did slepe with his fathers but that all is performed in Christ who many yeares after did spring of him ye do not rightly mark the wordes of God nether yet y e mynd of the holie Gost he saith not that the childe who shoulde builde a house to the name of God and whose kingdome he wolde establish shoulde be borne after his death but that God shoulde raise one who shoulde sprīg of his own loynes whom he wolde so honor after his death that he wolde become his father whom he wolde so intreate that albeit he shoulde offend yet shoulde he not be reiected frō regiment in Israel as Saul was and so was the kingdome established not onelie to Dauid but also to his posteritie after him The perfection no doubt was reserued to Christ Iesus but so was the veritie in him that the figure passed before in Salomō Moreouer somwhat is spokē in this promes which in no wise can be referred to Christ Iesus for how shal any be able to proue that y e iust sede of Dauid in whose mouth was no deceat founde did in any sort wickedly in his owne person so that he had nede of mercy to be corrected with the rodde of the children This I note to giue you occasion to take hede what sentence ye pronounce in things so farre remoued frō the reache of your vnderstanding In the historie of Ieroboam ye do not obserue that whatsoeuer is promised vnto him except the first 〈◊〉 of the tenne tribes is cōdicionall for thus saith the Prophet vnto him And if thou harken vnto al that I command thee and wilt walk in my waies do right in my sight as did Dauid my seruant then wil I be with thee and build thee asure house as I buylt vnto Dauid wil giue Israel vnto thee c. I pray you what can ye hereof conclude That Ieroboam say you not withstanding gods election and fre ordinance did fall from the fauor of God But how be you able to proue that he was elected and before ordeined to stand in gods fauor for euer These saings if thou walke before me in righteousnes if thou kepe my preceptes and such others will not proue it I can euidently proue that Ieroboam and all the kings in Israel after him were giuen to the people in gods anger and were taken away in his hote displeasure for so doth the Prophet Oseas witnes Now if you can proue that such reulers as be giuen in gods wrath and taken awaie in his iust furie were elected and before ordeined to stand in his fauor for euer aduise w t your counsellers and produce your witnes against the next time That Iudas was neuer elected to life euerlasting I haue before declared and therfore at this present I onely say that no more did Christ mean of Iudas that he shoulde be the salt of the earth the light of the worlde nether that he shoulde sit vpō any seat to iudge any tribe in Israel then that he ment of Peter y t he was the deuil that he shoulde betraie him or that better it it had bene for him neuer to haue bene borne for as Christ in pronoūcing y e wordes you twelue haue I chosē but one of you is the deuil one of you shal betraie me in expresse wordes he did nether appoint y e person of Iudas to that fact nether yet did exempt and make fre any of the rest from suspition of that cryme in expres wordes I say So like wise in saing ye are the salt of y e earth and you shall sitt vpon twelue seates c. he nether ment of the hole nomber of the twelue nether yet of thē onely for as for Iudas I doubte not to affirme but y t according as it was written in the book of Psalmes That his habitacion shoulde be desolate that an other should receaue y e honor of his bushoprike y t so euē in y e tyme whē he stood in the ministerie most sure to mānes iudgemēt that yet in gods eternall coūsel he was appointed to that treason and
affections to his will reueled but also our reason appeare it neuer so probable With the which if we stand not satisfied but quarreling with God will or dare in a blynd fury ask to what purpose commandeth and speaketh he one thing meaneth the contrary That deuelishe presumption shall fall down from the clouds and break downe for euer the frantick heads of such vile slaues of proud lucifer And therefor be ye warned for vengeance is prepared for all such vnreuerent reasoners in gods perfect but yet profound iudgementes as ye declare your selues to be in this which foleweth If God say you in respect of his reueled will wold not that Adam should falle but in respecte of his secrete will he wold Adam should fallâ— then did God will two contraries which is impossible Answere Impossible we confesse it to be that contrarietie should be in that will which in it self is simple and one But how shall you be able to proue that God in reueling his will to Adam had none other purpose nor will but onely that Adam should not falle because say you he said thou shalt not eate I answer so said he to AbrahaÌ„ thou shalt take aÌ„d offer thy sonne in sacrifice And yet we knowe that the contrarie had he determined O crye you God abhorreth a double heart which speaketh one thing and thinketh an other and yet ye abhorre nes to charge God with that which he can not abide in his creatures that is that he should speak one thing as that AdaÌ„ should not offeÌ„d will the cotrarie as that AdaÌ„ should offend Answer God if his good pleasure be towch your heartes with such vnfeined repeÌ„tance that you may vnderstand howe horrible be these blasphemies which thus in your furious blindnes you spew forth against gods supreme Maiestie for before I haue said they are not spoken against vs. for no such doctrine do we teach nor affirme as that of which you gather these blasphemies aÌ„d albeit we did yet it were as easie for vs to dissolue aÌ„d vnlouse such deuelish knottes as by instructioÌ„ of your father you knit to trippe y e soules of the simple as it is for y e fote of the valiant strong maÌ„ to burst a sondre the spiders webbes which y e venemous spider maketh to catch the impoteÌ„t flies and feble gnattes And now left y â— you should glorie as thogh yo r reasons yet stoode sure Let vs trie aÌ„d examine euery membre aparte God abhorreth say you a dooble heart which speaketh one thing and thinketh an other I answer That as God is a spirit and hath neither heart nor bodie like as man hath so must not his words cogitations and thoghtes be compared to ours for as we be corrupte liers and vaine so where we do speak one thing and think an other we do meane deceate fraud and destruction to our brother to whome we promise trueth fidelitie conseruation to our power But God according to the puritie and perfection of his godlie nature in speaking to his creatures and in creating of them must not absolutely haue respect to theÌ„ but also to his owne glory for what reason is it that God of nothiÌ„g shall make that câ—eature by whome his glory shall not be manyfested and therefor in speaking to Adam and in giuing a lawe to him God had respecte to his eternall counsell purpose as before we haue spoken and hereafter shall rehears But still crye you that yet we burden God w t that which he caÌ„not abyde in his creatures that is that he should speak one thiÌ„g as that Adam should not haue fallen and that he ment the contrarie for answer I ask of you if ye will binde God to that lawe which he hath imposed to his creatures And if ye will leaue none other libertie to God his soueraigne maiestie then his lawe hath permitted to men subiecte to the same and if ye dare promise to your selues that authoritie ouer God girde your loines and play the stroÌ„g champions prepare your seates appoint your iudges cite and adiourne him to appeare at a fixed day to rendre a reason a make an accoÌ„pte before you of his vniuersall regiment in which no doubt ye shall finde many things more repugnant to your reason then this You think I mock you in that I wil you to cite and call God to an accoÌ„pt in very dede I do for as your blasphemie pride is vtterlie to be abhorred so is your vanitie more worthie to be mocked then your simplicitie in that case to be instructed for what was he euer yet amongest the most ignorant ethnicks so foolishe or so presumpteous but that he did confesse that the workes and wonders of the supreme God were exempted from all lawe and censure of mans iudgement But in your presence God shall haue no libertie to command or forbid any thing to any of his creatures but that he must nedes absolutely will the same and for no cause or respecte may he will the contrarie but that he shall haue a dooble heart he shal be a disseÌ„bler cursed be your blasphemie that causeth me thus to write and in him there shal be coÌ„trarietie this is the reuerence which ye beare to gods infinite wisdome in all his workes to the ground whereof ye can not atteine by your corrupt reason that you burst forth in scoffing mocking and blasphemie But yet to come more nye to the mater I denie that iustly you can conclude any contrarietie to be in God albeit that to Adam he said thou shall not eate and yet in his eternall counsell he had determined that Adam shoulde eate neither yet I say caÌ„ you be able to proue that he spoke one thing willed the contrarie because he pronounced this sentence in what so euer day thow shalt eate of this tree thou shalt dye the death but rather we maye most assuredly conclude that both the precept the penaltie threatned to ensue the violation of it was a plaine and manifest declaration what before was concluded in gods eternall counsell as also that they were the meanes by the which the secret will and good purpose of God toke effecte amongest men was notified vnto the world for if God had not before appointed the falle and the remedie for the same he had not imposed vpon him a lawe the transgression whereof should bring death but should haue suffered him to liue without such feare and bondage as we shall do when victorie shal be giuen ouer death which is the sting of sinne ouer sinne also which had his power by the lawe And therefor I say that gods commandement forbidding Adam to eate and the punishment of death denounced if he did eate were nothing contrary to his secret will but were the very wayes appointed by his infinite wisdome by the which he had determined that his secrete will concerning the mysterie of maÌ„s redemption should be notified put in execution
shall deceaue or persuade him And the lord said wherunto he said I shall passe out be alieng Prophet in the mouthes of all his Prophetes he said therfor thou shal deceaue him thou shalt brâ—g it to passe goo forth therfor do eueÌ„ so And lo God hath giueÌ„ a lieÌ„g spirit in the mouthes of al these Prophetes the lord hath spoken euill vpoÌ„ the. If to make a publique proclamation to call for one to deceaue to send him forth to giue him power to do the same be onely a simple permission a thing which God suffereth against his will lett the indifferent man iudge I think that no maÌ„ will deny the incest of Absalome openly committed not onely to be sinne but also to be so execrable detestable a facte that nature it self be it neuer so corrupt must nedes abhorre it and yet I pray you what saith God that he wil do in that be half let the Prophet witnes Thus sayeth the Lord God saieth NathaÌ„ behold I shall rayse euill against the forthe of thine own howse and I shall take thy wyues and giue theÌ„ to thy neighbour who shal slepe with them in the sunne Thou did est y t facte secretely but I shall do this thiÌ„g opeÌ„ly before all Israel let y e vehemeÌ„cie of y e words w c here be spoken be noted be iudges your selues whether your interpretation be tollerable he saieth not I shal suffer euil to come vpon the but plainly he saieth I shal raise vp euil against the. And therwith not content he saieth I shall take thy wyues and to put the mater out of all controuersie he addeth aÌ„d I shal giue theÌ„ to thy neighbour yea and that will I do openly If to raise vp to giue to do be to permitt onely the thing which he will not we must confesse our selues ignorant of the phrases of the holie Gost. this same might I proue by Iob by Nabuchadnezer by Salmanasar by Syrus aÌ„d diuers others which for breuities saik I passe ouer one I will recite w c I trust shal be so plaine that the deuill him self by no subtilitie shal be able to obscure the light of y e trueth Was there euer any facte since the begining more wicked if the instrumeÌ„tes shal be coÌ„sidered as was the cruell and ignominiouse death of the Sonne of God And yet what doeth the holie Gost attribut to God in that case him saieth Peter beiÌ„g crucified did you kill after that you had taken him by the haÌ„des of y e wicked men being giuen by the appointed couÌ„sell fore knowledge of God And after they haue verely coÌ„uened agaiÌ„st thy holie SoÌ„ne Iesus whoÌ„ thou hast anointed Herode together PoÌ„tius Pilate w t y e Gentiles together y e people of Israell to do what so euer thy hand thy cousell haue decreed to be doÌ„ne Aduise well what ye wil answer y e wordes are plaine so plaine y t you caÌ„ not auoide the. for he that sayeth the wicked meÌ„ did what so euer God did foresee before dotermined yea what his hand â–ª y t is his power and couÌ„sell y t he had before decreed to be donne meaneth a thing of more greater importaÌ„ce theÌ„ he y t saieth they did what God permitted and suffered to be donne Consider forther y t you haue not to do w t men as w t Augustine Caluine and vs whome you call careles libertines but w t the holie Gost speaking in Peter in the hole Church of Ierusalem yea speaking in the hole scripptures for if not to spare his Sonne but to giue him to y e deathe for vs to cause our sinnes to make warre agaiÌ„st him to punishe hiÌ„ for y e same in suche sorte y t of al men he was most contemptible for a season if I say to giue to death to strike to wound punish be actions then did not God onely suffer his Sonne to die to be wouÌ„ded to be smytten to be punished without any will that any such thing should come to passe but he in his eternall counsell appointed the time the place the persons wheÌ„ where and by whome he should suffer y e same for of loue he gaue him to suffer the trewe death that we by him might receaue life the time could not be changed the cuppe which the father had giuen him he must nedes drinck as in the figures was foreshad owed and by his own people and geÌ„tiles as the Prophetes and Dauid had before spokeÌ„ If in gods counsell gods gift gods hand and eternall purpose before decreinge all things to come to passe in the deathe of his Sonne ye can se nothing but a bare simple permission I can not cease to affirme that as by falsifying such plaine scriptures you labor to take from the Churche of God their most singuler coÌ„fort left to vs in Christes death so do you walk in darknes in y â— same ye shall perishe except spedely you repeÌ„t Howe one the same work in so far as it procedeth from God is most iust most profitable most mercifull and yet as it procedeth from y e instruments most profane most wicked damnable to theÌ„ selues most cruell I haue abouÌ„dantly declared and after as occasion shal be offered shall touch by gods grace so much as may instructe the sobre mynd if it be ignorant and also to put sileÌ„ce to your venemous mouthes be they neuer so impudeÌ„t Because the scriptures which you heape together be either plainely repugning to your error orels make nothing for probation of the same I will so shortly as I caÌ„ go through them onely noting wherin you abuse the wordes and mynd of the holie Gost. The wordes of our master spokeÌ„ in the 24 chapter of Mathewes Gospell serue nothing for your purpose for in that place our Sauiour Christ Iesus speaketh as he that is the messinger of his heaueÌ„lie father aÌ„d declareth that the Iewes obstinatly euen from their original had resisted God speakiÌ„g by his patriarks prophets of old now last by his Sonne he neither speaketh nor meaneth what wil God had to saue his elect neither yet y t will w c he had to gather seperate theÌ„ froÌ„ v â— world but onely as Moises and Elias had before spoke declareth what fidelitie diligence God had vsed in the generall election vocation of that people from time to time and yet what had bene their obstinate rebellion vnthankfull defection from him by the which they killed the Prophetes aÌ„d should kill his Sonne sent of God to call them from iniquitie What hath this to do I say with that will by the which God in his eternall counsel hath made diuisioÌ„ betwext the electe the reprobate If ye dare say that Christe in that place meaneth in that he wold haue gathered those murtherers and sonnes of murtherers as he doth witnes he doth gather his chosen flock him self
nomber Israell I answer as the one place repugneth nothing to the other so doeth it not explaine the other in such seÌ„se as ye adduce for it repugneth not to say that God man aÌ„d the deuil work in one fact actioÌ„ as in the histories of Iob Achab Semei and Pharao is manifest God for iust causes giueth his commandement and power to sathan as to his instrumeÌ„t be he neuer so wicked to do what in his eternal cousel was before decreed Sathan of a wicked and rebellious mynd chooseth such instrumentes and vseth such meanes as God likwies hath appointed Men in al wicked actions of their fre and voluntarie motion do folow their corrupt and wicked affections in declaring their pride vanitie malice or crueltie which wicked affections in so farre as they are wicked we confesse that God will not for he can will no iniquitie but yet that his eternal almightie power shall be iudged so ydle that it doeth nothing in such actions but onely suffer we can not admitte for such reasons as we haue before alledged wher that we did examine the differeÌ„ce betwext gods wil and his permission You retein your old nature and iustly I might say the nature of the deuill most maliciously affirming vs to say that what so euer God permitteth he willeth it absoluteâ—â— and so that absolutely he willeth all wickdâ—â—ces Which saying as ye be neuer able to proue vpon vs so do we coÌ„fesse it not onely erroneous but also so blasphemous that who so euer dare pronounce or affirme the same deserueth death for we most constantly in word and writing affirme absolutley God willeth no iniquitie for all his workes in so far as they procede frome his wisedom aÌ„d infinite goodnes are holie and iust and therfor do we make God author of no sinne which onely procedeth frome the fountaines that be corrupted that is from the deuil and frome man as in diuers places most euidently we haue declared Because I do perceaue that greatly ye delyte in your prignaÌ„t wittes I will not say foolish vanitie I will recicite your hole wordes by the which ye wold seme to proue contrarietie in God except that we wold grante a difference betwext gods will and his permission I say saieth the author of your book to vs that ye are the Prophetes if the deuill which teach such filâ—hie doctrine and ye say be the Prophetes of God Now of necessitie one of vs lieth for if ye be the Propheâ—es of God I lie And if ye be the Prophetes of the deuil ye lie And if God will vs to say the trueth he will not that we lie for then he should will two contraries which is impossible yet one of vs lie which must be by permission and suffering of God and not by his will whereof it foloweâ—h that there is difference betwext the suffering and the will of God It appereth that in this description of persons in which ye oppose your selues to vs ye wold more declare what is your iudgement and opinion of vs and what ye wold that we should be estemed of others then that ye greatly do trauale to proue any contrarietie in gods wil by the same for his eternall wisedom seeth the meanes how that his commandement and his will are not contrarious the one to the other albeit that he command one thing and yet for iust causes will wicked men to do the contrary which kinde of coÌ„trarietie and repugnance doeth so blind your eyes that you can not se how God caÌ„ coÌ„mand all men to speak trueth and yet for iust causes before sene and determined in his counsell that he wil y e deuil aÌ„d his slaues to delite in lies Albeit I say that the apperance of this contrarietie blinde you yet will not gods trueth cease of be trueth neither will the libertie of his eternall Godhead be broght into bondage to your corrupt iudgement His commandement and his will do nether debate nether fight betwext them selues but do agree in all thinges euen as do his mercie his iustice his wisedom and his power albeit oftener it is that his iustice doth punish such as vpon whom he hath determined to haue mercie Euen so he commandeth men to obeye his commandementes whom he not onely foresaw to be disobedieÌ„t but for most iust causes willeth his glory to appere euen in their vnrighteousnes lies And this he doth without all contrarietie in his godly will to the full knowledge wherof albeit ye can not atteine yet more profitable it were for you to be ignorant of such thinges as God reserueth to be reueled in the time appointed in his eternall counsell then thus without all reuerence and feare to trouble your foolish braines in deuising such absurdities as may seme to oppugne gods eternall veritie which in the ende wâ—l triumphe to your destruction â–ª shame and confusion if obstinatly you procede as you haue begonne For albeit that he loueth trueth and hateth lies and albeit that he commandeth man to speak the trueth and forbiddeth man to beare fals witnes yet feareth he not to giue a commandement to that wicked spirite to go forth to be a lieng spiritte in the mouthes of all Achabes fals prophetes Yea forther he gaue him power to worke that in the fals prophetes which he forbiddeth all men to do For he commandeth that no man shall deceaue an other and yet giueth he power to the deuill to be a lieng spiritte in the mouthes of the fals prophetes and to them he giueth power to deceaue Achab. If ye list to lay contraritie to the charge of God prepare your winges and with Nabuchadnezer of Babylon saye we will passe vp to the heauens and shall establish our seates aboue the sterres of God we shall passe vp vpoÌ„ the hight of the clowdes and we shall be like to the most highest yea if thus ye will call his secrete counsels to examination and triall ye must be iudges and superiors to him Thus iustly I might illude aÌ„d skoffe y o r reasoÌ„s as vanities most vnworthie to be answered But yet hauiÌ„g respecte to the simple I wil gather your argument and forme it as strongly as your selues can and I will answere so much of the same as ye think nable to be answered your argument is this God can not will two contraries but to speake the 〈◊〉 aÌ„d to lie are contraries Therfor he can not will them both But he permitteth men to lie and willeth them to speake the trueth There is therfor a difference betwene the will and the permission God can not will two coÌ„traries True it is in him selfe in one respecte and for one purpose he who is author of coÌ„cord can not will contrarietie but in consideration of his creatures for diuers respectes and sundrie purposes thiÌ„ges be not coÌ„traries the one to y e other which to our iudgementes haue apperance of contrarietie If you be so wel sene in your artes as some of
you wold affirme y t gods good wil pleasure may change and y t is to deny his Godhead But I will burden you no further then ye shall plainely confesse I onely put you in minde that y e holy Gost vseth no such phrase You procede saing Nether is it his pleasure aÌ„d will that ether pharaâ— Semei or any other should sinne and come to destruction Before we haue confessed y t iniquitie and sinne is so odious before God y t in it can his goodnes neuer delyte nether yet can he haue pleasure in the destruction of any creature hauing respect to y e punishment onely But seing y t gods glorie must nedes shyne in all his creatures yea euen in y e perpetuall damnation of sathan torment of the reprobate why shal not he wil and take pleasure y t so it come to passe Albeit your phrenetique braines can not comprehend y e brightnes therof yet wil he one day declare y t al his workes are wroght in iustice wisedom and equitie I thinke you will not deny but that pharao Semei Iudas and others came to destruction like as in the end shall all reprobate do Then do I aske if God at no time for no purpose respect nor end did so will how then came their destruction to passe By sinne say you that we denie not but yet the questioÌ„ is not answered For continually we demand if in God there was not power ether to haue impeded their sinne or yet after their sinne to haue called them to repentance if it had so pleased his eternal wisedom and goodnes Consider your foly and giue glorie to God who doth what so euer he will in heauen and in earth But now to that which foloweth For he will the death of no creature but will all men to be saued and to come to the knowledge of the trueth How violeÌ„tly you wrest the wordes of the Prophet and of the Apostle shall shortly appere after I haue reasoned a litle with you how these your propositions do agree with that which goeth before Ye haue affirmed that God is ready to mercie and slow to wrath in which wordes you â—hew and cofesse that in the God head there is readines to â—hew mercy and also that there is a iustice w c must execute wrath vpoÌ„ the disobedient And so in the nature of y e God head ye cofesse mercy ad iustice But here you say that God will the death of no creature but that he will all men to be saued which last wordes being vnderstand as ye do vrge them must destroy the former nature of God take awaye his iustice For if he absolutely will the death of no creature then will he no punishment to folowe sinne And if he will no punishmeÌ„t then willeth he his iustice to cease and so coÌ„sequently must one of the properties of his godlie nature cease Studie for an answere to make your former wordes and latter wordes better agree orels ye wil be compelled to coÌ„fesse that God for som respect willeth both death and damnation to come vpon some creatures Further if God willeth all men to be saued and to come to the knowledge of the trueth and yet many do perâ—sh in ignoraÌ„ce and shal be condemned as Christ Iesus doth pronounce then must it ether folow that gods will is mutable and so he vnconstant and not at all times like to him self or els that he is not omnipotent For if God at the first creation of man wold all men to be saued as ye alledge then wold I know when this will was changed After that man had offended say you Then yet haue I obteined that in gods will there was mutabilitie For after sinne he wold and by his sentence pronounced that Adam and his posteritie should suffer the corporall death yea and that the sede of the serpent should haue the head broken downe by the which is ment the spirituall death which nether of both as you affirme did God will before If you reply gods will towardes the saluation of all mankind did remaine the same after sinne which was before for a generall promes of deliuerance was made by the womans sede that was promised I haue before plainely proued that difference most manifest betwext y â— two sedes was made in that promes But admitting that the promes had bene generall so that the will of God this day remaineth the same which ye alledge it to be to witt that he willeth y e death of no sinner but that he willeth al men to be saued Can you deny but that a separation and diuision of the shepe from the goates of the elect from the reprobate shal be made at the glorious commiÌ„g of y e Lord Iesus Shall not these most ioyfull wordes be said vnto theÌ„ y t shall stand vpon the right hand Come ye the blessed of my father possesse the kingdome which was prepared for you from the beginning And shall not this most fearefull sentence be pronounced and executed against the other Depart ye cursed go to the fire prepared for the deuill and for his angels Shall the Sonne of God in pronouncing senteÌ„ce do any thing that day repugning to the will of his heauenly Father I think you will not so affirme Then if gods will in the day of iudgement shal be that many shal be adiudged to tormeÌ„t perpetual and his will in the creation of man was and this day yet remaineth that all men shal be saued then of necessitie it doth folow that gods will shall change If you say that death and damnation cometh not by gods will but by the sinne and vnbelief of man you haue releued your self nothing for if death be one thing and life be an other damnation one thing and saluation an other TheÌ„ if God this day will all men to be saued and so to haue life and yet that day he shall will many to be damned to torment perpetuall what causes so euer you alledge I shall obteine one of two to witte that ether gods will is and may be mutable orels that there is a power superior to his maiestie and godly will For if willingly he shall damne those whom before he wold and had determined to saue then is his will and determination changed And if he shall damne those vnwillingly whoÌ„ willingly he wold haue saued then is he not omnipotent Consider now vpon whom falleth the snowe and who do cast them selues in greatest absurdities Now it resteth to declare how violently ye wrest the wordes of the Prophet of the Apostle The Prophete speaking in the personne of God saith I will not the death of a sinner but rather that he conuert and liue And the Apostle affirmeth that God will all men to be saued and to come to the knowledge of the trueth Hereupon ye conclude God will the death of no creature this is your first violence which you do to the text For the Prophet
saith not I will the death of no creature but saith â–ª I will not the death of a sinner Ye are not ignorantâ— suppose what difference there is betwext an vniuer saâ—â— negatiue an indefinite or particulare Where ye saye God willeth the death of no creature ye speake generally and vniuersally excepting none But so doth not the Prophet for he saith not I will the death of no creature nether yet I will the death of no sinner but simply saith I will not the death of a sinner I wonder that ye consider not that as there is difference betwext creatures and creature so that also there is difference betweâ—â— sinners and sinner Some creatures are appointed 〈◊〉 death for the vse and sustentation of maÌ„ And dare yoâ— say that this is done against gods will we be taught the contrarie by his owne mouth If you correcting your generalitie shall say that you meane onely that God will the death of no man And I feare not yet to ioyne with you and against you to affirme that God hath willed doth will and shall will the death of some men The holy Gost speaking of the sonnes of Heli the high Priest saith But they did not heare the voice of their Father because the Lord wold kil them And Moises saith Sihon king of Hesbon wold not suffer vs to passe through his cuntrie for the Lord thy God did harden his minde and strengthen his heart y t he shoule giue him into thy handes How often doth Moses Iosua declare vnto the people that God wolde kill roote oute and destroye those wicked nations from besore the face of his people And were all those kinges whom Iosua did kill killed against gods will The holy Gost affirmeth the contrarie For it is written the Lord did trouble them before Israel and he did strike them with a great slaughter And while that they did flee before the Israelites and were in the descense of Bethoron the Lord cast downe vpon them from heauen greate stones and many more perished by the haile stones theÌ„ were slaine with the swerd of the children of Israel If the destruction slaughter death of these wicked men and of the greate host of Senacherib was not the will of God I can not tell how man shal be assured of his will For the plaine word did before promise that the Lord should destroye them and the fact doth witnes the constaÌ„cie and perfourmance of his will and the same thing doth God this day shall do to the ende of the world when he shall adiudge the reprobate as before is said to the death perpetuall and that not against his will but willingly for the manifestation of his iust iudgementes and declaration of his owne glorie And therefore I say that your prosition saying God willeth the death of no creature is manifestly fals as it that repugneth to gods iustice and to his euideÌ„t scriptures The minde of the Prophetes was to stirre such as had declined from God to returne vnto him by true repentance And because their iniquities were so many offenses so greate that iustly they might haue despaired of remission mercie and grace therefor doth the Prophet for the better assurance of those that should repent affirme that God deliteth not nether willeth the death of the wicked But of which wicked of him no doubâ—e that truely shoulde repent in his death did not nor neuer shal God delyte But he deliteth to be knoweÌ„ a God that sheweth mercye grace and fauor to such as vnfeinedly call for the same how greuous so euer their former offenses haue bene But such as continue obstinate in their impietie haue no portion of these promises For them will God kill them will he destroye and them will he thrust by y e power of his word in to the firewhich neuer shal be quenched The Apostle in these wordes God willeth all meÌ„ to be saued to come to the knowledge of the trueth speaketh not of euery man and of euery particulare persone But of all men in generall that is to say of men of all estates all conditions all realmes and all ages For as in Christe Iesus there is nether Iew nor Gentile nether man nor woman free manâ— nor seruant but all are one in him so can no estate no condition of man no realme nor no age be proued so wicked and so corrupt but out of the like hath God called some to the participation of his light and to saluation and life by Christe Iesus and that this is the very naturall meaning of the holy Gost the texâ—e it selfe doth witnes For the Apostle immediatly before willeth praiers and supplications to be made for all men for Kinges and for all that were placed in authoritie And because that the Church was chiefely oppressed by such this doubte might haue risen Are we then bound to pray for those that are expresse and coniured ennemies against God You are saith the Apostle for that is good and acceptable before God our Sauior who will all men to be saued That is God willeth you to pray for your persecuters that their eyes may be opened and they conuerted to the liuing God who no doubt will saue some of all estates of all conditioÌ„s and vocatioÌ„s of men For the natioÌ„s are giuen to Christe Iesus by inheritance Kinges shal be the feders of the Church Quenes shal be nurses And in his holy temple shall all sing praise If this interpretation which we doubt not to be the verie meaning of the holy Gost caÌ„ not satisfie you Then will I aske of you If God will men otherwise to be saued then by Christe Iesus or as the Apostle speaketh by comming to the knowledge of the veritie Plaine it is that by the wordes of the Apostle ye caÌ„ conclude none otherwise For as he saith God will all men to be saued so doth he adde and willeth all men to come to the knowledge of the veritie Which word willeth albeit it be not expressedly repeted in the second meÌ„bre yet of necessitie it must be vnderstand as those that be but meanly sene in the greke or latine tongue do euidently see Then if I shall sufficiently proue that God willeth not all men to come to the knowledge of the veritie in such sort as the Apostle meaneth shall it not infallablye folow that God will not all men to be saued in such sense as you vnderstand That God willeth not all men to come to the knowledge of that veritie by the which man is verely made free from the boÌ„dage of sathan is euideÌ„t not onely by those whom we do see walke in darknes and ignorance but also by the manifest srriptures of God who called Abraham making to him and to his sede the promes of saluation saying I will be thy God and the God of thy sede after thee which promes he kept secrete many ages from the rest of the world WheÌ„ he did notifie his law vnto Israel
Princes and the people coÌ„spired to this day against God against his sonne Christe Iesus aÌ„d against his eternal veritie They mainteine impietie superstition and idololatrie they cruelly murther the Saintes of God and so do they reioyse in all kinde of tyrannie y t Gods iust iudgementes can not long delaye punishment And therfore leauing you Anabaptistes into the handes of him whose power ye can not escape I am compelled in feaw wordes to admonish you aswell the people as the princes y t spedely ye retourne to the liuing God whose veritie so long ye haue oppugned whose religion ye gainstand and true messingers ye persecute or els persuade your selues that vengeance is prepared He will not entreate you as he hath done his afflicted Church and deare childreÌ„ that is he will not call you to repentance by a fatherlye correction the end wherof shal turne to your coÌ„fort Not so not so but as ye haue still rebelled and dishonored him so will he powre forthe contempt vpon you in the which ye shal perish bothe tâ—mporally and for euer And by whom doeth it most appere that temporally ye shal be punished of vs whome ye banish whome ye spoile and robbe whome cruelly â–ª ye persecute and whose blood ye dayly shed There is no dout but as the victorie w c ouercometh the worlde is our faith so it behoueth vs to posses our soules in our pacience we nether priuely nor openly denie the power of the ciuile magistrate we do not claime the coÌ„munaltie of all things in this life the pluralitie of wiues we do abhorre we wold not destroye gods ordinances and Pollicie by him established in common welthes but we hate detest all such confusion Onely we desire the people and the Rulers to be subiect vnto God and vnto his holy will plainly reueled in his most sacred worde And therfore of vs I saye ye are and maye be without all feare But what ye may loke for if the Anabaptistes shal atteine to their purpose the confusion and tyrannie vsed by those of whome we haue spoken is â–ª and may be a glasse wherein ye may se your iudgement end most fearfull vnlesse that vnfeinedly ye repent Flatter not your selues that ye be able at all times to preuaile in battel by stregth because that in nomber ye be manie or because those Prices of Germanie preuailed against that most miserable most wicked sort of enraged Anabaptistes Consider consider depely in your hearts that when God will punish no multitude can resist At that time God gaue victorie to the Princes and did suppres the furie of those wicked men not because the Princes were iust and had deserued suche a benefite at gods hand No the most part were wicked as their factes since haue plainely declared But God had respect to his owne glorie and honour He did admonish his elect by their examples to beware of such poison and did also by such confusion call you to repentance Of late yeres before was the EuaÌ„gile of Christ Iesus reuiued in Germanie the haruest of the Lord was not come to ripenes therfor for his owne names sake he wold not suffer that pestileÌ„ce so sodainly to preuaile But now seing that of so long coÌ„tinuance from wickednes ye procede to open contempt of God and of his true religion shall he suffer you to rage without punishment No his iustice can not And what instrumentes can God I say finde in this life more apte to punish you then those that hate and detest all lawfull powers and do thirst nothing more then such confusion as before ye haue heard God will not vse his saintes and chosen children to punish you For with them is alawaies mercie yea eueÌ„ althogh God haue pronounced a curse and maledictioÌ„ as in the Historie of Iosua is plaine But as ye haue pronouÌ„ced wrong and cruel iudgement without mercie so will he punish you by suche as in whome there is no mercie Tremble therfor and coÌ„uert vnto God if that ye think to escape vâ—ngeance confusion and shame bothe temporal and for euer Now to the conclusion of your boke Thus ye finish THE ADVERSARIE â–ª Iudge now gentill reader vprightly and here I commit thee to God beseching him to opeÌ„ the eies of thy minde that thou maiest know the trueth in this and in all other matters necesâ—arie to thy saluation ANSWER As you will all men to reade and to iudge with indifferencie euen so do we requiring of God not onely y t so the eyes of meÌ„ maye be lightened that clearely they may se things apperteining to saluation but also that by the mightie operatioÌ„ of gods holie spirit they may be coÌ„firmed and so sanctified in his eternall veritie that to the end they may continue in the simplicitie of his holy worde and further that all men may se to what confusion your doctrine teÌ„deth the ground wherof is your owne vaine imagination and the end as before we haue said not onely the destruction of all gods ordinances necessarie for this present lyfe but also the treading vnder foote of the bright glorie of Christe Iesus For the more that ye extoll fre will and the vertues of man the more do ye obscure the iustice of faith which onely is acceptable in the presence of God and the lesse do ye attribute to Christe Iesus his death and passion Yea some of you are not ashamed in your enuenomed docâ—rine wherein secretly ye traine your scholars to affirme That we that now liue after Christes death haue no other benefite ether by him or by his death but onely an exaÌ„ple to suffer as he did O sede of the serpeÌ„t thy father Pelagius was neuer so impudent nether yet did euer the deuil finde anie of his instrumeÌ„tes before thee so bolde as that against the holy scriptures of God he durst affirme that horrible blasphemie Darest thou denie but that the death of Christe Iesus shall to the consumation of all thinges haue the same efficacie that it hathe had froÌ„ the beginning Did not Christe suffer for our sinnes not for our exâ—ple onelyâ— but because we were not able to satisfie the iustice of God which we had al offended that therefor the punishment of our offenses was laid vpon him Haue we any more power now then had his disciples to whome he said without me ye can do nothing Doeth not he remaine a soueraigne Priest for euer after the order of Melchisedech Is it not he who by one sacrifice made perfect for euer such as ether haue bene are or shal be sanctified of that polluted sede of Adam Finally is it not he alone who giueth libertie saluation and lyfe to his bodye which is the Church not in one age but from the beginning to the end Satan him self is compelled thus farre to coâ—fesse and therefor be thou shamed o thou blasphemous mouth What other monsters ye norish and fede in the stincking denne of your enuenomed heartes time wil reuele And if
all predestinate to lief for as our fall here is to damnation and death so is our staÌ„ding vnto saluatioÌ„ and lief Assuredly these reasons appear meruelous straÌ„ge to me and principally that which ye bring furth of falling and standing for it hath in the self plain contradiction for if we fell in Adam to death how can we stand in him now vnto lief If you had said as that our fall was to damnation and death so should our standing haue ben to saluatioÌ„ and lief ye might haue had som probabilitie For your error had onely stand in this that ye do not conâ—ider that Adam was not created to stand for euer in him self â–ª and much les his posteritie in him But when ye say as our fall is to death so is o r standing vnto lief you plainely speak what so euer ye think that yet either in AdaÌ„ either in our selues we both fall and stand But this do we vtterly abhorre for we fear not plainely to confesse that we haue no assurance either of standing either yet of lief but in Christ Iesus alone in whoÌ„ we be ingrafted and with out whoÌ„ we caÌ„ do nothing In few wordes to repete the answer of your former obiectioÌ„ In AdaÌ„ did no maÌ„ stand otherwise theÌ„ he did But he did staÌ„d w t coÌ„dition to fall and y t eueÌ„ to death Therefor in AdaÌ„ did none staÌ„d to lief The commoÌ„ sense of maÌ„ will approue y e first part of this my argumeÌ„t for who caÌ„ think that any disceÌ„ding of Adam by his meanes could haue greater libertie theÌ„ he hiÌ„ self had And the eueÌ„t aÌ„d that which folowed declareth the veritie of the second part For not onelie vpon Adam saieth the Apostle cam death But eueÌ„ from him descended death vnto all How then could any stand in him to lief Let reasonable men consider To proue that all were predestinat and chosen in AdaÌ„ before the fouÌ„datioÌ„s of the world were laid ye briÌ„g furth the testimony of Paul written in the first chap. to the Ephesians which we before haue entreated and therefor here I onely will open your falshed Wonder it is that shame should be so far past you that where the holie Gost plainely affirmeth that we were elected and chosen in Christe Iesus before the foundations of the world were laid that this election ye should affirm to be made in Adam If you obiect that you specifie not AdaÌ„ I answer that is all a like for of your former argumentes it easely may be espied whom ye vnderstand For when thus ye reason we did all stand in Adam ergâ— we were all predestinat to lief what is he that clearly may not perceaue that your meaning is that we were all predestinat to lief in Adam For els you had said nothing to proue your own purpose For we affirm that we were elected before the foundatioÌ„ of the world was laid But the controuersie standeth in whom We affirme and most coÌ„stantly beleue that in Christe Iesus the eternall Sonne of the eternall Father were we elected before all tymes This ye can not abyde and therefor ye seke all meanes to obscure the glorie of him to whoÌ„ the Father hath geuen all power in heauen and in earth somtymes ye say as now I haue declared that this election was made in Adame But whill that this will not serue you ye run to an other shift alledging that the Apostle speaketh here of a generall election of the hole world and a not of any certen election which should abyd for euer and so in shifting from one danger ye fall into another as after in examining of that your vain reason more euidently shall appere Ye instantly require that we will shew any testimonie of the scripture that hath reprobate any before the fouÌ„dations of the world If it be the pleasure of God to giue vnto you the spirite of wisdom and of reuelation by the knowledge of hiÌ„ self that the eies of your mynd may be illuminated that ye may know what is the hope to the which he hath called you and how rich is the glorie of that inheritance which he hath prepared for his saintes ye shall require no place more plaine nor more euident then the same which most ignorantly orels most maliciously ye do abuse for if there be any differeÌ„ce betwext the saintes the faithfull that be blessed with all spirituall benedictioÌ„ betwext those I say y t were elected in Christe Iesus before all tymes that in tyme be called and by the power of the holie spirite do giue obedieÌ„ce to the caller and so are made citizens with the saintes and houshold of God as they that are builded vpon the foundation of the Prophetes aÌ„d Apostles if any differeÌ„ce I say be betwext these former and these in whom the prince of this world doeth worke all filthynes and rebellioÌ„ whom he holdeth captiue at his pleasure who can not repent their detestable liues and therefor are reputed strangears from the common welth of Israel And further if ye will beleue Christ Iesus affirming and reioising that it pleased his Father to hyde the secretes of his kingdome from the prudent and wife and to reuele the same to litle ones aÌ„d that becaus it was his pleasure I trust ye shall confesse that those scriptures be plaine ynough to proue that as some were elected before the fouÌ„datioÌ„ of the world was laid so likewies were there others reprobated as the finall end of bothe doeth witnes But how ye wrestle against this argumeÌ„t we shall after heare aÌ„d how plainely I haue proued soÌ„ to be elected and others to be reprobated reade before aÌ„d iudge with indiffereÌ„cie If ye will coÌ„clude that God hath no certen election neither yet that he hath reprobated any becaus that he hath no respect of persones and becaus he calleth the world from the rising vp of the son to the going doune of the same becaus he made both small and great and careth as ye falsly alledge for bothe a like your affirmatioÌ„ may well be bolde but I think that your probation shal be sclender But first I must except against you as against fals witnes for you alledge more vpon Elihu theÌ„ in the book of Iob he affirmeth For he saieth not that God careth for all a like But saieth that his eies are vpon the waies of man and that he doeth se all his goinges And that neither you neither any other shall haue occasion to complain of me that vniustly I accuse you of falsifying the plain text I will recite bothe the purpose and the wordes Iob in vehemeÌ„cie of disputation against his thre frendes who constantly did affirm that God prouoked by his sinnes had powred furth those sodane and strange plagues vpon him Iob I say in refelling this their accusation and in confuting their reasons did enter into the secretes of gods inscrutable iudgementes further theÌ„ it became any creature to do and did seme to