to our purpose at length he saith that the Catholikes must vnderstande that all seruice of any honor and sacrifice is giuen of the Catholike Church together both to the Father and to the Sonne and to the holy Ghost that is to the holy Trinitie For though he that offereth directeth the prayer to the person of the Father this is not any preiudice to the Sonne or to the holy Ghost He declareth it thus because The conclusion of the same prayer for so muche as it hath the name of the Sonne and of the holy Ghost sheweth that there is no difference in the Trinitie Looke in the Canon of the Masse and you shall more easily perceiue his meaning The prayer there beginneth thus being directed to the Father Te igitur clementissime pater c. Therefore ô most mercifull Father with humble supplication we beseech thee for Iesus Christ his sake thy sonne our Lorde c. And it is in the ende concluded thus Per ipsum cum ipso in ipso c. By him and with him and in him is to thee God the Father in the vnitie of the holy Ghost all honor and glory world without ende Amen Wherevpon also among his instructions to his friend Petrus Diaconus which you alleage vnder the name of S. Augustine here cap. 10. dem 24. Fulg. alia◠Aug. de fi◠de ad Pet. Diac. ca. 19 béeing too light in very diuerse companies in his pilgrimage to Hierusalem he sayth Holde most firmely and in no wise doubt but to the Sonne with the Father and the holy Ghost they did sacrifice those beastes in the time of the olde Testament And to him nowe in the newe Testament with the Father and the holy Ghost cum quibus illi est vna diuinitas he hauing one Godhead with them the H. Churche Catholike ouer all the worlde ceasseth not to offer in fayth and charitie the sacrifice of bread and wine c. Therefore you might as well haue charged Christ him selfe for directing so likewise the prayer that he taught vs Our father c. v. Of ministring the blessed Sacrament to Infantes But the other error is he saith a notable error and suche a practise as euen the Papistes them selues will confesse to be erroneous This it was S. Augustine and Pope Innocentius and al the Catholike Fathers of that time and all the Westerne Church yea all the Church excepting none but only the Pelagians ministred the Sacrament of Christes body and bloud to Infantes yea and thought it as necessarie for them as Baptisme to wit that they must receiue it or els they should be damned And will not D. Allen deny this will the Papistes them selues confesse it for so you say boldly but in your boldnesse you open withall your wilfull ignorance Fulke neuer read the Councel of Trent Who would thinke it if your selfe did not by this confesse it that you neuer read the Councell of Trent And what a presumption is this for you to preach yea and to write against the doctrine of the Catholike Church nothing regarding eyther what it is or how it is explicated defended defined by occasion of your heresies of the Catholike Bishops in their Generall Councell As if an Arrian doctor should neuer haue séene the Councel of Nice Well our countrey men may perceiue by this what blind guides they haue of you Reade the Councel of Trent I exhort both you and all other that can specially that halfe of it which is of doctrine and you wil either imbrace it as it is most worthy and as I pray God to giue you the grace or at leastwise you shall better know therby what it is that you must confute where now most of you do commonly fight only with your owne shadowes either of ignorance or which is worse of wilfulnes not knowing what in déede we teache There to our present purpose you shall find the said Councel after that it hath said Trid. Con. Se. 21. ca. 4. That Infantes lacking the vse of reason are by no necessitie bound to the sacramentall receiuing of the Eucharist to declare moreouer and say Neque ideo damnanda est antiquitas c. Neither for all that is antiquitie to be condemned if it practised that maner sometime in some places For as those most holy Fathers had pro illius temporis ratione answerable to that time sui facti probabilem causam a reasonable cause of their so doing so verily that they did it not for any necessitie to saluation without controuersie it must be beleeued This declaration of the Councell may satisfie not onely all Catholikes to whom it is the declaration of the Holy Ghost him selfe but also any other reasonable man to whom it can not possibly be lesse then the declaration of many most learned and most discrete men which knew well what they said and that they could not be therin disproued In so much that Kemnitius the Lutheran Protestant not so much as once toucheth the Councell for this though he write of purpose against the Councell Yet for more satisfaction of all men I say further to open the case particularly The heresie of the Pelagians was that Man or Fréewill of man is still notwithstanding the fall of Adam See A◠ad quo haer 88 lagian◠sufficient of his owne naturall strength without Christ or the grace of Christe to saluation And so consequently they saide children to be borne in innocencie and not in sinne The Catholikes to proue the contrarie of children alleaged the necessitie of their Baptisme confirming it by that Scripture Except one be regenerate of water non potest introire in Regnum Dei he can not enter into the kingdome of God Ioan. 3 The Pelagians séeing so plaine a text confessed they Originall sinne No hereticall pertinacie would not let them but a straunge shifte they had They graunted vpon this text that children vnbaptized should not in déede come into the kingdome of God for lacke of Baptisme but yet for their naturall innocencie without Christ they should haue life euerlasting in a certaine other place out of the kingdome of God The Catholikes replyed against that vaine shift and alleaged this text Ioan. 6 Except ye eate the fleshe of the Sonne of man and drinke his bloud non habebitis vitam in vobis you shall not haue life in you Who now would accuse those Fathers of error Yea who would not admire in them such readines to replye so properly to the purpose or let any man stand vp and say that the Pelagians are not by this confuted and their children excluded as before from the kingdome of God so now also from life and so left in death and therefore in sinne and therefore againe not innocent and all this for lacke of the Grace of Christ in Baptisme But now putting the case that a childe were baptized and then immediately died before he receiued sacramentally the Eucharist who reading innumerable places
cura I haue answered in the third Chapter Supra pag. 12. In his Confessions he is not vncertayne of the matter as you pretend but of the persons néede and that but of his mothers néede not also of his fathers as you say because she was so perfit a woman Euen as our faith also of the matter is most certayne though of our particular friendes state after their departure we be vncertayne For concerning the liuing also Iob. 1. was Iob vncertayne of the profitablenes of Sacrifice because earely in the morning he vsed to offer for his children after they had bene feasting together Dicebat enim ne forte peccauerint filij mei For he said lest peraduenture my children haue sinned And touching S. Chrysostome whom you thinke so very a childe to forget him selfe so soone your selfe in déede a very childe for so thinking He there speaketh first of a) For such as die vnreconciled them Qui cum peccatis suis hinc abscedunt Which go hence with their sinnes and saith that they can not be holpen after their death Then he speaketh b) For Catholikes that be rich of them Who are departed in the faith but yet being rich they did not procure by their riches any comfort to their owne soules To these we that are their friends may with our riches prayers procure some helpe but litle in respect of that they might haue procured them selues So saith he He speaketh in such a comparison Neither is the Apostolike Memento within his comparison although it might haue bene well inough For although by it come much commoditie much vtilitie to the dead yet nothing so much when it is procured by their friends as when it is procured by them selues specially because a mans owne works are also meritorious of euerlasting rewarde so are not his friendes workes they are not meritorious vnto him at all no nor so satisfactorious of temporall paine as his owne nothing like iij. Against the Churches authoritie And so much of the Apostles and their Traditions Authoritie Dem. 34. Diuine seruice Dem. 22. Pur. 264. You shall now heare him make the same exception against the Churches Practise and Iudgement But admit saith he that the Church of God in Tertullians time vsed prayers and oblations for the dead Let vs consider vpon what ground they were vsed Tertullian himselfe shall say for me that the same custome with many other which he there rehearseth as comming from the Apostles hath no ground in the holy Scripture It is good to take that which is so frankely geuen and more is Tertullian to be commended that confesseth the ground of his error not to be taken out of the word of God then they that labour to wrest the Scriptures to finde that which Tertullian confesseth is not to be found in them You are hastie to take it but Tertullian doth not geue it as I haue plainely shewed you in the third Chapter Supra pa. 2 diui 3. Againe he excepteth against the Churches Practise in her Liturgie or Masse and saith We haue with more honestie refourmed our Liturgie according to the word of God then Gregorie Pur. 371. Basil Chrysostome or whosoeuer were authors of those Liturgies did leaue the auncient Liturgies that were vsed in the Church before their time and forge them new of their owne contrary to the word of God we neither refuse the Latine Church while it was pure nor receiue the East Church wherin it was corrupt But the Scripture is a rule vnto vs to iudge all Churches by And yet that we may not thinke him a coward he saith else where to D. Allen. But to follow you at the heeles as farre as you dare goe Pur. 349. I will agree with S. Augustines Rule quod legem credendi lex statuit supplicandi the order of the Churches prayer is euer a plaine prescription to all the faithfull what to beléeue so saieth S. Augustine and so doth D Allen alleage it but because Fulke could not make his florish with that end forward he turneth the staffe as though S. Augustine and D. Allen had said Falsification by changing that the law of beleeuing should make a law of praying And then he bestirreth him selfe like a man and addeth of his owne But faith if it be true hath no other ground but the word of God Therfore prayer if it proued of true faith hath no other Rule to frame it by but the worde of God And by and by after Which rule of onely Scripture if Augustine had diligently followed in examining the common error of his time Of prayer for the dead at that time he would not so * O videns blindly haue defended that which by holy Scripture he was not able to maintaine And no lesse bold he is with the Practise commended euen in the Canonicall Scripture it selfe Seeing this fact of Iudas Machabaeus Pur. 210. hath no commauÌ„dement in the Law it is so farre of that it is to be draweÌ„ into example that we may be bold to condemne it for sinne and disobedience Now concerning the iudgement of the Churche he excepteth against it likewise Ar. 86. saying As for doubtes that arise by difficultie of Scripture or contention of heresie they must be resolued and determyned onely by Scriptures For there is neuer aâ— cause heretikeâ— make dâ—â—bt of the Church this heretike vvill that no Christian leane vnto it heresie but there is as great doubt of the Churche as of the matter in question Onely the Scripture is the stay of a Christian mannes conscience As though that heresies neuer made doubt of the scriptures also eyther of all or of some péece namely your selues now of the Machabées And expressely against his owne Churche he maketh the same exception Ar. 58. saying And the Protestantes in Europe will also be ruled by their Superiors so farre as their Superiors are ruled by Gods word Againe Among the Protestantes to the Church of Saxonie humbly affected is the Churche of Denmarke to the Church of Heluetia the Church of Fraunce to the Church of England the Church of Scotland But so that none of these allow any consent or submission but to the truth which must be tried onely by Gods word With that but so you will consent I trow to Iackstrawe also and therefore it is a marueilous humble affection that your Churches haue one to an other Anno. 1. Elizab. Your owne Churche of England in generall Parliament was then much to blame to enact foure Rules for condemning of heresie First if it were against Canonicall Scripture SecoÌ„dly if it were against the first .4 Generall Councels or against any one of theÌ„ Thirdly if against any other general CouÌ„cel also but the with your acception to wit so far as the said Councell followed the line of Scripture and fourthly simpliciter whatsoeuer this high Court of Parliament shall adiudge to be heresie You notwithstanding haue written
of those fathers concerning the force of Baptisme séeth not that they geue to such a childe remission of sinnes and therefore also liuerie from death therefore againe life euerlasting the kingdome of God Or let any man bring me one place of those Doctors speaking to this case of a child I say baptized but not communicated holding the contrarie For betwéen them the Pelagians that was not the case nor the question as I haue shewed but they brought in the Eucharist onely to proue that Baptisme is necessarie to the euerlasting life of children All which by this one place of S. Augustines will be euident euen for your owne purpose also it is plainer then the two places that your selfe alleage Augu. De pec mer. rem li. 1. ca. 20. If a child saith Augustine hauing receaued baptisme depart out of this life soluto reatu cui originaliter erat obnaxius c. Seeing the guilt is loosed to the which he was bond by birth he shal be perfite in that light which with the presence of the Creator doth lighten such as are iustified Peccata enim sola separant inter Deū homines for nothing but sinnes maketh separation betwene God and men and sinnes are loosed by the grace of Christ Then a litle after of the Pelagiās he saith They would geue to children vnbaptised saluation and life euerlasting for cause of their innocencie but shutte them from the kingdome of heauen because they are not Baptized For they haue forsooth a starting a lurking hole because our Lord said not If one be not regenerate of water and the spirit non habebit vitam he shall not haue life but he said non intrabit in Regnum Dei he shall not enter into the kingdome of God Nam si illud dixisset for if he had said that quoth they it had bene so playne that no doubt could haue risen therof How then doth S. Augustine ioyne issue with them herevpon Auferatur ergo iam dubitatio c. Say you so Now then away with doubting let vs heare our Lord not the suspitions coniectures of mortal men Why haue you a plaine word of our Lordes owne mouth for the necessitie of Baptisme also to life euerlasting Dominū audiamus inquam non quidem hoc de Sacramento lanacri dicentem Let vs heare our Lorde I say I graunt he speaketh it not of the Sacracrament of Baptisme sed de Sacramento sanctae c. but of the Sacrament of his holy table quo nemo rite nisi c. And yet neuerthelesse it serueth well to our question of Baptisme because no man commeth lawfully to that table vnlesse he be Baptized Then he bringeth forth the place Except yee eate c. you shall not haue life in you And so he triumpheth saying What seeke we further what can they answere to this if they will not be obstinate By and by he declareth though it were said of baptisme Qui non renatus fuerit He that is not regenerate and here it is not saide likewise He that doth not eate but If you doe not eate as though he spoke to men of vnderstandyng and not to Infantes yet that this place must needes pertaine also to Infantes And so it is euident that although he vnderstande the place of the Sacrament and of Infantes yet he bringeth it not to proue the necessitie of that Sacrament to Infantes but the necessitie of Baptisme to Infantes Marie perceiuing that he might be mistaken of his Reader he doth commonly though it néeded not against the Pelagians insinuate most vigilantly by the waye that in Baptisme it selfe they receyue also the other Sacrament not sacramentally but spiritually that is Augu◠pec m◠3. cap. the effect of the other Sacrament Quoniam nihil agitur aliud cum paruuli baptizantur nisi vt incorporentur Ecclesiae id est Christi Corpori membrisue socientur Because when Infantes are Baptized it is for no other cause but that they maye bee incorporated to the Churche that is to saye ioyned to the bodye and members of Christ See D◠len d◠cha ◠31. pa◠It is so therefore with children by Baptisme as it is with older people by an earnest desyre to the Eucharist for as these haue Votum explicitum an expresse desyre to it so they haue Votum implicitum a close desyre to it and that serueth them both to obtayne the effecte thereof though not in so great measure as if they receyued it also sacramently Neuerthelesse there may be iust causes to keepe it from children generally as there are iuste causes to keepe it sometyme yea at Easter also from some of the older sorte But if antiquitie dyd not counte it necessarye for chyldren at least wyse they gaue it you wyll saye to children and that is contrary to Probet semet ipsum homo 1. Co◠let a man examyne hym selfe before he receyue it Why syr is there anye feare least chyldren that are Baptized come to it vnworthyly that is beyng in mortall synne hath any adultus by penance a better warrant to presume vnto it then a childe by Baptisme Knowe you not howe S. Augustine and the whole Church holdeth that in Baptisme a childe repenteth and beléeueth by others euē so he there also examineth himselfe by others As other repenting and other beléeuing so likewise other examining is not necessarie for a child though for so great a sacrament it be more conuenient And so both the Churche now doth well not to Communicate children they also afore did not ill who did Communicate them who yet were not so many as Fulke doth make them We heard erewhile what the Tridentine Fathers said Falsification by adding Aliquando in quibusdam locis that maner was sometime in some places The third part Concerning the errors that he laieth to the Church of later times and not of old And thus much of the second sorte of errors laid by you to the auncient true Church and not also to the Churche of these later times which you take not to be the true Church Now therefore as it followeth let vs heare and examine the third last sorte of errors such as you lay to this Church of later times and not also to the primitiue Church as you call it meaning the first .600 yeares Which errors wil be so few so light in respect of those which he hath already charged the true Church withall specialy when they are duely scanned Note you that vvould the true Church that it may be both a sure confirmation to the Catholikes and a iust motiue to all others to embrace the Church of this time no lesse then of olde time considering that it is no lesse yea much more vnreproueable of the aduersarie as in déede also of good reason it must so be because more time hath geuen to the Holy Ghost and stil doth geue more occasions to define and declare many pointes that were
they ended not their life in sinne because that praying is according to Gods will For it foloweth there immediatly Who so knoweth his brother to sinne he vseth the present tense and not the preterfect tense to haue sinned because his intent is to exhort also the sinner to leaue by time a sinne not to death as one that liued in Schisme but yet was reconciled before he dyed let him after his death request of Christ and life shall be giuen vnto him to one I say sinning not vnto death Sinne there is vnto death I say not that any pray for that because it is not according to Christes will to pray for them that be in hell All iniquitie is sinne and therefore to be diligently auoyded and not so much as one moment to be incurred And there is sinne vnto death As if he would say if you auoyde not that no hope after your death your brethren can not helpe you by praying for you This is the playne and smooth sense of that whole place and so must néedes be because there is no man nor no sinne in this life but we may pray for him and it as neither the Nouatians as bad as they were did denie Onely the Protestantes denie it because they haue no other shift to auoyde this place And therby let any indifferent any Christian man iudge whether this be not a playne place for praying for the dead Fulkes wordes of sinnes in this life and men in this life not to be prayed for and that to be this sinne and sinner vnto death I shall recite in the twelfth Chapter amongst his grossest errors and absurdities Thus I haue answered thanks be to God al his Scriptures against Purgatory and all his arguments made out of the Authoritie thereof both negatiuely and affirmatiuely Cap. 7. part 4. Wherby appeareth to the full the vanitie of his bragges in the last Chapter against the church of God that he could would produce against the doctrine thereof such plaine testimonies of Scripture such Scripture also for the meaning of ech place as by no meanes might be auoyded Whereas amongst all his testimonies you sée there is not one but it hath bene cléerely answered As now in this fourth last part shall be answered likewise with the like helpe of god all other Scriptures that in these two most insolent Libelles in any place vp and downe he alleageth against any other point of the Churches doctrine The fourth part Concerning all other questions that he mentioneth And first to put all the same in some order for the more vtilitie of the Reader I conceaue all the differences that are betwéene vs and the Protestants in this diuision Some are about the witnesses of Gods word the principles of Diuinitie or groundes of all truth which by them is onely Scripture by vs not onely Scripture but also the Church and certain others whervpon we frame our Motiues to all men to beléeue vs not the Heretikes shewing them that such and such are the principles which they must beléeue and withall that the said principles euery one of them stand for vs and not for the Protestantes Some are about other particular or priuate controuersies Which may be reduced vnto these two heades Good-workes and the Sacramentes the doctrine of which both they corrupt with their new inueÌ„tion of Onely faith Only Scripture and Only Faith as they do the foresaid with their toye of Onely Scripture What Scripture he alleageth about the first sort I haue in the two first partes of this chapter reported them al answered theÌ„ sauing a very few which I reserue to the tenth chapter which shall be of euery Motiue or Demaund apart by it selfe There in these fiue Motiues of Churches Seruice Priesthood with Sacrifice Monkes and Pope I will answere his few Scriptures thervnto belonging Now then concerning the second sort and first Good-workes what he alleageth about them concerneth them partly in generall partly in speciall that is to say prayer fasting or almes About Good-works in generall Iustification Good works in generall it concerneth that he saith They do not iustifie wherevnto he alleageth two places one of S. Paule Pur. 450. the other of Esay We beleue saith he that a man is not iustified by workes but by faith onely Rom. 3. And yet we beleue that good workes are necessary to be in euery man that is iustified A faâ—sarie Iac. 5. The wordes of S. Iames be not as he saieth but expressely against him A man is iustified by workes and not by faith onely Where you sée also that it is in all one sense that works do iustifie and faith The words of S. Paule likewise be not as he saith but thus A man is iustified by faith without the workes of the law That is to say although he haue not euermore done the works which the law commaundeth to wit good works yea although he haue sometimes yea and alwayes done the cleane contrarie to wit all euill works yet let him come to the Catholike faith and he shall there finde a remedie for all and of a wicked and so wicked a man be made iuste all his sinnes and wickednes béeing remitted him This sayth S Paule and the same say we But after he is so iustified he must not do the like agayne he must then kéepe the commaundementes of the Law béeing now by Christ made a new man and able therevnto and by so doing he shall be more iustified as S. Iames saith Conferre these two places of S. Paules also The iustice that is of the Law qui fecerit homo the man that hath done it shall liue by it Rom. 10. ex Leuit. 18. Which is in effect that no man shall liue by it because no man hath done it but all men haue done against it all being borne in sinne therfore not by the works of iustice which we had done but according to his owne great mercy he saued vs by baptisme Tit. 3. Do you marke the tense He speaketh of works before faith where you should haue alleaged of works after faith And so withall is answered your other place Ar. 102. where you say that the Popish Church is not content to be clothed in the white shining silke which is the iustification of Saintes made white in the bloud of the Lambe but with the filthy ragges of mans righteousnes Esai 64. If God conuert your heart that you may returne to your mother the Catholike Churche you shall finde that she will make nothing of all the good workes which you do nowe in Heresie because it is but mans righteousnesse But the good workes whiche afterwarde in the Churche you shoulde haue of her husbande the Lambe where learned you to call them The filthy ragges of mans righteousnes Apoc. 19. He that doubteth whether those Iustifications of the faithfull in the Apocalipse be as I say iust workes the same Apostle if he will conferre places in
is linked your place with enim Impossibile est enim for it is vnpossible c. And that which our Sauiour saith to the Pharisées Scribes Mat. 12. Mar. 3. of Sinne or blasphemie against the holy Ghost because they said Spiritum immundum habet He hath an vncleane spirit euen Belzabub the prince of the diuels to cast out diuels by doth he say it to driue them to desperation yea doth he not plainely speake it to moue them the more and to the greater repentance As your selfe also contrarie after your manner to your selfe Pur. 461. though in expresse wordes counting D. Allen and his fellowes such as Heb. 6. can not by you repent hauing sometime bene lightned As though D. Allen had euer bene a Protestant and tasted of the good gift of God doe yet exhort them truely to repent and to returne to the acknowledging of trueth once knoweÌ„ and professed and doe beseech God that so many among them as are curable may haue grace so to do So the whole circumstance sheweth that Christ there exhorteth them to most humble penance For neither doth he otherwise say that such sinne blasphemie shal not be remitted then he saith that all other sinne and blasphemie shall be remitted And yet I trow many a one yea aboue all number may be and is damned in hell for other sinne and blasphemie Euen so many a one yea and aboue all number may be and is forgiuen the sinne against the Holy Ghost Wherby it is euident that he doth no more in that place but report the ordinarie rules of Gods prouidence to wit To forgeue al other sinne ordinarily by giuing the partie grace to repent and not to forgeue ordinarily the sinne against the holy Ghost that is when one maliciously calleth the Miracles of Christ and of his Seruauntes the workes of the Deuill or the lying signes and wonders of Antichrist Which sinne your new Gospell hath made very common in these dayes But yet that no such also should dispaire one of these a Act. 23.26 Philip. 3. Pharisées he the very worst of theÌ„ all saith most comfortably b 1. Tim. 1. Act. 7.9 A sure saying and worthy of all embracing that Christ Iesus came into the worlde to saue sinnerss of whom I am the principall But to this end I had mercie that in me the principall who afore was a blasphemer and a persecuter and an oppresser in my c Vide Au. expo inch ad Rom. prope fineÌ„ blind incredulitie Christ Iesus might shew all clemencie for a samplar to all that should after beleue in him Nowe for that which you alleaged out of Samuel Ieremie and Ezechiel it is all spoken in one sense of temporall matters to wit of casting Saule from his kingdome and the Iewes into captiuitie in another sense of the Iewes generall reprobation in which they presently be since their crucifying of their Messias and ours But to pray for the saluation of Saul or the Iewes no man was forbidden no nor for their temporall felicitie to continue vntill it was quite past So did Samuell mourne for Saul euen to the moment that he was sent to annoint Dauid in his place So did Ieremie still continue praying for the Iewes as appeareth in the same Chapters Rom. 10. and as Saint Paule writeth of his owne doyng afterwardes when the time of their reprobation was nowe present Finally there is in Ezechiel a notable and a comfortable rule for the wicked also by name howe to take and vnderstande the comminations of God to wit not simply as you doe and absolutely Ezech. 33. Iere. 18. but with a condition If I say to the wicked Thou shalt die the death sée as it were absolutely but yet it followeth neuerthelesse and he repent him of his sinne and worke iudgement and iustice and make restitution of pledge and of robberie and generally walke in the commaundementes of lyfe nor doe any euill he shall liue the life and shall not die Another point is that straunge interpretation of the Article of our Creede Christ descended into Hell to redeeme vs out of Hell by suffering the wrath of God for our sinnes Hebr. 5. In that place is neuer a worde of that Article and much lesse of that interpretation neither that Christ suffred the wrath of God although that may be saide so as the Scriptures doe tearme payne or punishment by the name of wrath But then what other wrath did he suffer then that which is expressed plainely in the wordes afore passus crucifixus mortuus He suffered was crucifyed and dyed Belike you meane the padde that your Maister Caluine leaft in the strawe Pur. 451. Cal. Insti li. 2. ca. 16. sect 10. that all thys which I haue saide was nothing Nihil actum erat si Christus corporea tantum morte defunctus fuisset It had auayled nothing if Christ had dyed bodily death onely And so you will bring vs when you reply b Aug. ep 99. howe he dyed some death of Soule also eyther that which mortall Sinners doe dye here in sinning or that which they dye afterwardes in Hell when they be in damnation for their sinne You say Pur. 63. that Caluine affirmeth his descending into Hell to be vnderstoode of the wrath of God which he sustayned for our sinnes before his death at that time especially when he that was God complained that he was forsaken of God What other forsaking was that but that he did not deliuer him from the Crosse which was to forsake by the iudgement both of naturall desire and especially of his most wicked enemies who saide there in their diuelishe insultation Mat. 27. He trusted in God let him nowe deliuer him if he will haue him for he said That I am the Sonne of God Neyther was it a complaint as you say but a prayer as you myght haue séene euen Hebrues .5 if you had not béene blynd Who in the dayes of his fleshe with a myghtie crie and with teares offered vp prayers and supplications to hym that was able to saue him out of death and was heard for hys reuerence to wit beinâ— raysed by him agayne Whereby you sée that in déede he was not forsaken neyther corporally Where now is your Sâ—â—ipture or Caluins for any other but bodyly death of Châ—ist for any other wrath for any other forsaking Or what Châ—istian man did euer thinke that Christes bodily death alone was nothing yea or that it was not the full sufficient and abundant raunsome or redemption of the world All the world must go to schole againe to Caluin to learne that Christes soule besides his bodily death was in such horrible distresse of conscience in such meruellous anguish horror frayeur yea and damnation that his case was for the time despairing blaspheming excepted euen the selfe same that the case of the damned is for euer yea that he was in feare least he should haue bene
time was no such time but that he and al his felowes though they held the foundation of Christ yet might did erre in some opinions contrary to the truth of Gods word And agayne Cyprian and al the Bishops of Aphrica were notwithstanding their error of Heretiks baptisme to be no baptisme in the vnity of the church In all these places he alludeth although he neuer expresse it to S. Pauls saying 1. Cor. 3. that The foundation is Iesus Christ and if any man buyld vpon this foundation he shal be saued yea also though his buylding or worke be wood or straw such to witte as will wast away in the day of fire Let vs conferre with it this saying Matt. 7. He buildeth vpon the Rocke which heareth or beléeueth my sayings Aug. in Ps 103. cor 3. de fide op ca. 16. Gala. 5. and worketh them S. Augustine expoundeth it most aptly in very many places when he saith that Christ to be in the foundation is that he haue the principall place in our heart and nothing at all be preferred before him Which is done if he dwel in our hearts by a working faith for That fayth which by loue worketh being layde in the foundation suffereth none to perish So that if we be either out of faith or out of charitie then be we without this sauing foundation As are all they that eyther beléeue any one heresie or breake any one commaundement by any mortall sinne For so saith S. Paule expresly of Heresies with all other works of the flesh Gala. 5. That they which do such thinges shall not inherite the kingdome of God For which purpose agayne thrée places are diligently to be conferred in all which the first part of the sentence he chaungeth not at all but the other part he varieth thrée wayes 1. Cor. 7. Gala. 5. Gala. 6. geuing vs playnly thereby his meaning In Christ Iesus saith he neither circumcision nor vncircumcision is ought or can do ought but a new man but fayth working by charitie but keeping of Gods commaundementes This is the truth But nowe commeth Fulke with an other exposition which first requireth not workes of charitie or obseruation of the cōmaundements nor secondly also so much as fidem integram inuiolatamque a sound and vncorrupted faith but onely to holde this one article of faith to beleeue in the onely Sonne of God and in the onely mercy of God And if any man erre about other articles and that also so obstinately that he condemneth his aduersaries for heretikes yet he holdeth the foundation and by vertue of it shall be saued notwithstanding and so did S. Augustine and those other Fathers and therefore they were of the true Church and are saued Howe much more warely dealt your maister Peter Martyr vpon this place to the Corinthians who séeing the absurdities hereof Pet. Mar in 1. Cor. thought better to say that the Fathers in the agonie of their death acknowledged their errors Et non raro fit c. It happeneth often saith he that such as in their whole life time had not the gift to thinke a right of Religion haue it often geuen them at the last houre to vnderstand in the agonie of death that the superstitions and abuses to which afore they had yealded them selues were both vaine and also hurtfull Which thing I would not doubt to haue happened to Bernard Frauncise Dominike and many of the auncient Fathers because liuing in the foundation that is in Christ although they builded many abuses and very many superstitions yet they might be saued howbeit through fire what time at the last houre they wrestled against death and the terrors of their sinnes and in that wrastling acknowledged the vanitie of their fansies Thus you sée how they are troubled to saue them whom no lesse then vs they should but dare not to condemne and while they labour so to do they do it specially Fulke by such meanes as no lesse serueth to saue vs. For who knoweth not that we beléeue in the onely Sonne of God and in the onely mercy of God and that therefore we looke not to be saued by our owne works that is to say which we did without him as when we were in Paganisme or in Iudaisme or in Caluinisme and any other heresie or finally in any mortall sinne but onely by his workes that is by his Sacraments that of his great mercy he hath instituted for vs the good déeds that of his great mercy he hath created in vs in Christ Iesus euen as S. Paule saith Tit. 3. Not for any works of righteousnes that we did before Baptism quae fecimus nos but for his mercy he hath saued vs by Baptisme per lanacrum generationis that thou maist sée his mercy and his sacrament stande well together Eph. 2. And againe for wee be his new creature created in Christ Iesus in good workes And therefore afore we were in Christ Iesus we had no works to saue vs but they are our workes only in Christ Iesus that saue vs. For so the same S. Paule teacheth vs as I said afore what it is that in Christ Iesus is of power to saue vs to wit our new creation in these good workes our faith working by charitie our kéeping of Gods commaundementes so that againe his mercy in Christ Iesus and his creature or good workes in Christ Iesus stand well together And euen thus did also those old fathers beléeue of the Sacraments of good workes Supra pag. whom he confesseth notwithstanding to haue beléeued in the onely Iesus Christ the onely mercy of God beléeuing likewise the communion of prayers betwixt all that are in Christ Iesus Infra pag. either quick or dead as him selfe likewise confessed of thē in the .3 Supra pag. Chap. And therfore séeing they notwithstanding that are confessed to haue beléeued in the onely sonne the only mercy of God we no lesse for all that our beliefe must be likewise confessed to beléeue the same onely foundation and so consequently to haue likewise the true Churche and saluation be the impudent audacitie of Fulke neuer so great to say that we build vpon no foundation at all and seeke by all meanes to digge vp the onely true foundation of our faith Iesus Christ making him nothing better then a common person except his bare name Euen as his friendes and masters be altogether as lustie with the Fathers them selues Flaccus Illyric in Claue Scripturae parte i. in praef one of them saying of S. Hierome by name that he was Et morbi humani medici Christi ignarus ignorant both of mans disease and of Christ the Phisitian Therefore let him wrangle as much as he will this is the plaine case euery indifferent man doth sée all like both in vs and in the Fathers about his supposed foundation if they helde it we hold it if we holde it not Infra
praye you syr is all Montanisme that Tertullian hath in his Booke De anima and in so many other Bookes which he wrote beyng a Montanist then what article of our Créede almost is not Montanisme Euen in those fewe lynes that you cite he hath Immortalitie of the soule Resurrection of the flesh and that which is his scope in the same place to wit for you séeme not to vnderstande it the soules suffering in her betweene this and the Resurrection If otherwise therefore some be trueth though some other bée Montanisme what shoulde you haue done but to looke in Epiphanius in Augustine and such others what were the heresies of Montanus and not finding prayer for the dead amongst them to haue refrained your rashnes You knew this well inough therfore notwithstanding your bragges to proue it c. you confesse that it is but your owne lyght suspicion Pur. 417. saying And therfore it is not otherwise to be thought but that the Montanistes added to the abuse in the Church afore also prayers for the spirites of them that were dead wherof Tertullian maketh mētion in his bookes De Castitate De Monogamia which were both written to heretikes of his secte and by those prayers laboureth to proue his Montanisme to wit that Second mariages are not lawfull And againe And therefore it may well be Pur. 263. that all that Tertullian speaketh of prayers and oblations for the dead was onely in the conuenticles of the Montanistes All in Tert. is Montanisme that Cypr. doth not mention And this coniecture you say seemeth the more probable not because it is by any imputed to Montanus but because Cyprian which was afterward a Catholike Byshop in the same Citie where Tertullian some time had lyued maketh no mention of prayers for the deade A goodly cause and yet in déede Cyprian maketh such mention thereof as D. Allen alleageth him Pur. 239. Infra pag. that your selfe doe say there This place of Cyprian hath more collour but yet not so cleare for Purgatorie as M. Allen would seeme to make it And when you haue all done you sticke fast in the lyme But this by the waye Againe you vtter your suspition Pur. 419. saying Finally it appeareth that the faithfull in Tertullians time c. allowed no Prayers for the dead And yet of this least for lacke of courage so great a verse shoulde geue vs so much as a fillip though you haue bene so vncertaine in your premisses you must néedes be certaine in your conclusion notwithstanding and say to vs Therefore Aerius was not the first that helde our opinion although Epiphanius and Augustine say it neuer so muche but Montanus before him was the first that helde your opinion throughly against the Catholikes of his time Oblations for the dead And so much of prayers for the dead But because Aerius denied not onely the profite of them but also of oblations for the dead and was no lesse for that also condemned of the Church you must take paynes to quit him of that heresie likewise and to charge the Church rather that condemned him yea the Church long before he was borne Thus then you say speaking of the times of Tertullian Montanus before him Pur. 417.418.419 The Church then had oblations for the dead by peruerse emulation of the Gentils and yet they were but oblations of thanks giuing You go about to proue it a litle after saying And that the practise of the Churche for oblations for the dead at the yerely day of their death were taken from the Gentiles it appeareth by this that Tertullian counteth them of all one origen to witte of the Apostles tradition with the oblations pro Natalitijs that is for the birth days And if this be not inough Beatus Rhemanus you say a Papist and a great antiquary doth confesse it affirming that by the Canons of the Nicene Councell and other Councels whiche he hath seene in Libraries those oblations pro Natalitijs with other superstitions that Tertullian fathereth vpon tradition of the Apostles were abrogated After this you be bolde to crowe agaynst those auncient times and to say amongst many other corruptions which they tooke of the Gentiles and Heretikes So they tooke oblations for the dayes of death and birth of the Gentiles He is a poore antiquarie which knoweth not what Natalitia were in olde time and still are to wit the dayes of Martyrs Natalitia so called because they were then after many sore pangs deliuered out of their mother the militant Churches wombe and borne vnto the life ioy of the world to come Which mother of theirs and ours vsed therfore alwayes and stil vseth Ioan. 6. for ioy that a man is borne to heauen to offer from yere to yere vpon the dayes of their Martyrdome the oblation or sacrifice of the Altar For any other of her children she offereth also the same oblation vpon the day of his death and so forth vpon his yeres Mindeday yere by yere but not with such ioy but rather mourning with them and for them to get them comfort knowing that though they also be borne into the worlde to come yet it may be crying for a time as all children into this world and not laughing by and by as the glorious Martyrs And these two sortes are the oblations that Tertullian speaketh of saying Oblationes pro defunctis pro natalitijs Tertul. de Coro mil. Cypr. Epi. 37.34 anima die facimus We make oblations for the dead and for the byrthes of Martyrs vpon their yeres day S. Cyprian likewise We celebrate the passions and dayes of Martyrs with an yerely commemoracion We celebrate oblations and sacrifices for their commemorations And in See Molanus de Martyrolog◠ca. xv after Martyrol vsuardi Aug. in ps 118. in res all Martyrologies you may sée them called Natalitia or Natales S. Paulinus hath left verses that he wrote ten yeres together vpon the Natalis of S. Felix S. Augustine shewing that the olde persecutors could not hurt the Church but rather that they did much good agaynst their willes amongst other vtilities as that the whole earth is clad in purple by the bloud of Martyrs Heauen is all in flowers by the garlandes of Martyrs Churches are decked with the Relikes of Martyrs Often cures are done by the merites of Martyrs hath also to our purpose and saith Insignita sunt tempora Natalitijs Martyrum Times are notably marked with the birthdayes of Martyrs Orig. li. 3. in Iob. Finally Origen saith expresly the place is often alleaged by your selfe Nos itaque non natiuitatis c. We do not celebrate the day of birth into this world considering that it is the entrie into dolours and temptations but we celebrate the day of death as being the laying off of all dolours and profligation of all temptations Pamel in Cyp. ep 34 And therefore it litle forceth what your
body before the generall Resurrection If that be so manifest what els was it then but the rest of his soule that Martha would haue Christ to pray for when she saide thus vnto him But also now I know that whatsoeuer things thou shalt aske of God God will graunt thee To whiche purpose also some auncient writers expound that place But to alleage places is not my intent here it is onely to answere your allegations And now hauing done with all your negatiues we are come to your affirmatiues ij Ab authoritate Scripturae affirmatiue First about certayne foundations of Purgatory and prayer for the dead For breuitie to speake ioyntly of Purgatory and of relieuing the soules that be there your affirmatiue allegations against both are leuied by you partly at the foundation of them partly at the two them selues And the foundations béeing diuerse you haue both seuerall shot agaynst the seuerals and also one common shot against all or many of them in common To eche sorte I shall with the helpe of God whose cause it is make answere most easily and most truely The distinction of Veniall and Mortall sinne And first D. Allen declareth out of the Doctors Pur. 126.127.128 what sinnes may be purged in Purgatory to wit not onely such as are Veniall of their owne nature but also suche as are mortall of their owne nature so that they were in Gods Church remitted afore Fulke sayth that This is manifestly ouerthrowen by the worde of God euen from the foundations For the foundation of this doctrine is the distinction of veniall and mortall sinnes Not so syr the doctrine is that mortall sinnes by the Churches remission become as veniall and you graunt it your self saying All sinnes except certayne of which your good exceptions I shall say more anone by Gods mercy are pardonable or veniall Thus you graunt the doctrine and yet you graunt not the foresaid distinction therfore the distinction is not the foundation of that doctrine but the doctrine may stand well without it But yet for other causes we must be content to sée what you alleage against the distinction The worde of God playnely determineth that euery sinne is mortall deserueth eternall death seeme it neuer so small So you say and you alleage thrée places for it The first Cursed is euery one that abideth not in all thinges that are written in the Lawe to fulfill them Deut. 27. I syr but find you in the Scripture no other Curse that is to say payne for sinne but eternall death Is it not written Cursed is euery one that hangeth on tree yet hāging on trée or crucifying Deut. 21. Gal. 3. is not eternall death Agayne euery one in that saying is meant by the Apostles exposition not of Christians but of them onely whiche trust in the lawe for it selfe who in déede can neuer attayne to no remission neither of their mortall nor of their veniall sinnes But we that holde of Christ and of his spirite are in case alwayes to receiue remission whensoeuer we sinne venially 1. Ioan. 1.3 for so we can But we can not sinne mortally holding I say Christ and his spirite And therefore if we do sinne mortally at any time depriuing our selues thereby of Christes spirite the remedie is to séeke for the same agayne by the Sacrament of penaunce and then are we in good case agayne as before Your other two places are these The soule that sinneth shall dye Ezech. 18. and The rewarde of sinne is death Rom. 6. S. Iames giueth vs the meaning of these suche like places where he saith Peccatum verò cum consummatum fuerit generat mortem Iac. 1. Sinne when it is consummate gendreth death But not so soone as it is gendred and yet it is sinne as soone as it is gendred Therefore some sinne there is which yet gendreth not death Marke the order Deinde concupiscentia cum conceperit parit peccatum peccatum verò cum consummatū fuerit generat mortem First commeth the temptation of our concupiscence as it were of a lewde woman Secondly concupiscence when she hath conceiued by obteining some light consent beareth sinne venial sinne Mary thirdly Sinne when it is consummate by our full and perfect consent yéelded vnto it gendreth or bringeth foorth death if the matter be of weight accordingly For els that the lightnes of the matter as an idle worde bringeth not death he sufficiently signifieth in saying that in a weightie matter the lightnes or imperfection of consent doth it not Whether after sinne remitted payne may remayne Now to another foundation to wit That culpa the fault both in Venial and in Mortal sinne may be forgiuen of God and of his Church and yet some payne though not eternall be owing for it sometime so that the same must in such case be in this life eyther payde or pardoned or els in Purgatory it wil be exacted Pur. 45. This is against Ezechiel saith Fulke What time soeuer a man doth truely repent the Lord doth put al his sinnes out of his remembraunce You might haue done well to quote the place where Ezechiel so saith ad verbum The trueth is that in a moment the repentaunce may be so great that there is no more remembraunce at all But Ezechiel if you meane the 18. Chapter speaketh of a longer time so that The wicked man must repent him of all his sinnes and keepe all Gods commaundementes and do right and iustice and then vita viuit non morietur when the day commeth to rewarde euery one according to his workes here He shall liue not dye All his iniquities that he worked I will not remember saith God for his iustice that he wrought he shall liue For otherwise who knoweth not those voyces Psal 24.78 Lord remember not the sinnes of my youth and Lord remember not our old sinnes Are they not the words of men which had already repented them acknowledging neuerthelesse that God may yet remember them Againe you say It is against Dauid Pur. 45.46 Psal 102. The Lord hath remoued our sinnes from vs as farre as the east is from the west Who may not say this for béeing remoued frō eternall damnation although he haue yet to abide neuer so much temporall punishment Howbeit those words as the whole Psalme are not spokē of the time of our first receiuing againe into the fauour of God by absolution but to magnifie his mercy in our finall restitution which shal be at the later day For which cause the Church very aptly singeth that Psalme vpon the feast of Christes Ascention Also out of the New Testament you say The Publicane Pur. 43. the Prodigall childe the Debters all clearely remitted do playnely proue that God frely forgiueth iustifieth rewardeth the penitent sinners without exacting any punishment of them for answering of the debt satisfying for the sinnes abusing his fatherly clemēcie Luk. 7.15.18 You speake here very indefinitely as though God
wide way and the narrow way Mat. 7. If there be but two wayes in this life you say there are but two abiding places after this life In the wide way of breaking Gods commaundementes some go wider then some with infinite varietie yet al in the wide way and these after death go to damnation namely their soules and straight to damnation because they haue nothing to stay thē out of it so much as a minute of an houre In the narrow way of keping Gods cōmaundements some go narrower then some with infinite varietie likewise yet all in the narrow way and these after death go to life though not straight in body none of them neither in soule also many of them because they haue somewhat to stay them out of it for a time to wit temporall debt of veniall sinne also of mortal sinne forgiuen but the due penance not fully payed nor fully pardoned And so you sée that the two wayes of this life stande well ynough with Purgatorie Pur. 436.444 Againe you alleage that it is written of the Iudgement 2. Cor. 5. we shall all stand before the Iudgement seate of Christ to receiue ech of vs the own of his body according as he did either good or euill Not D. Allen but as he alleageth S. Augustine Aug. Ench. cap. 100. Dion Ec. Hier. ca. 7. as also S. Dionisius Areopagita answereth that the Churches praying for the dead is nothing repugnant herevnto because the dead in our Lord in his life deserued that these workes after his death might be profitable vnto him And to this answer you haue no reply to mainteine that Scripture against such prayer Onely you oppose a saying of S. Hierom very fondly as in the next chap. I wil shew Once againe you reason of the Iudgement If Purgatory be so necessary to satisfie Gods iustice by temporall paynes of sinners Pur. 85. according to the time c. and Purgatory shal cease at the day of Iudgement as you affirme out of Augustine how shall the same be satisfied in such as dye immediatly before the day of Iudgement so that they haue not had time inough ther to be sufficiently purged The like may be demaunded of all them which in a moment shal be changed from mortalitie to immortalitie at the very comming of Iesus Christ to Iudgement These questions M. Allen will trouble your head to answere and retayne your former principles Two doughtie questions Where did D. Allen set downe that principle that Purgatory is necessary to satisfie according to the time I finde where he saith Pur. 44. If any debt or recompence remayne to be discharged by the offender after his reconcilement it must needes rise by proportion weight continuance number and quantitie of the faultes cōmitted before Wherby it must of necessity be induced that bicause euery man can not haue time to repay all in his life that there is all or some parte answerable in the world to come Here we haue continuannce of the faultes and time of his life but time of Purgatory that you haue to tell vs where you had it The truth is that a shorte time in Purgatorie will so pay the sinner that it had bene better for him to spende much longer time in penance as in this life also a litle while in fire passeth I trow the payne of longer time in fasting c. Neither is it hard for god to punish one in the shortest time as gréeuously as an other in 1000. yeres Nor again repugnant to his mercy to remit suche punishment at the request of his glorious Saints which is S. Augustines answere to your obiection as he nowe doth to the like for the Churches prayers Aug. de Ci. li. 21. ca. 24.27 Lo what a hard thing it was to answere your Demaundes Whether Faith Hope and Gods Will may stande with Purgatory After these two assaylings of Purgatory by going straight to heauen and by the iudgement there remayneth your third last assault Pur. 421. wherein you say to vs We learne by Scripture that your doctrine is contrary to the faith and hope of Christians And how shew you that Pur. 382. If it be against the hope of Christians to mourne for the dead much more it is against the faith and hope of Christians to pray for them For by our prayer we suppose them to be in miserie whom the word of God doth testifie to be in happines to be at rest to be with Christ Io. 17. Apoc. 14. Neither those Scriptures nor any other by you alleaged as I haue shewed do testifie that all straight after death be so and therefore to suppose some of them to be in miserie and so to pray for them is not proued to be against the worde of God Neither to mourne for some yea and for all is saide to be against Hope I would haue you knowe that they shal rise againe saith the Apostle to the end that you mourne not for them 1. Thes 4. sicut et ceteri qui spem non habent in such sorte as others that haue not hope of their Resurrection So then there is one maner of mourning without hope and there is another maner of mourning with hope and such is our mourneing with prayer When Christ praied for his own Resurrection Psal 15. Act. 2. did that argue him to be voide of hope or rather to haue hope When also we all pray for the generall Resurrection Thy kingdome come and mourne and grone for the dilation do we against hope doe we not rather most manifestly declare oure hope thereby Moreouer you saye there To that which is required of the expresse worde of God forbidding prayers for the dead we answere that all places of the Scripture that forbid prayers without faith forbid prayers for the dead For faith is not euery mans vayne perswasion but an assurance out of the word of God Which because we can not haue in praying for the dead therefore we are forbidden to pray for them This argument supposeth Cap. eodē part 1. that the word of God is onely Scripture which you can not proue as in the one place here aboue I haue declared Againe it supposeth that prayer for the dead is not assured by Scripture which besides the most expresse place of the Machabées and diuers others now shall another euident place control euen the same place that you alleage against vs. Thus you say Pur. 281. We learne out of Gods word that whatsoeuer we do pray for according to Gods wil we shal obteine 1. Io. 5. Therefore this one Hatchet shall cut a sunder al Prayers for the dead are not according to the wil of God and therefore they are not heard at all I denie the Minor you haue not nor can not proue it Yea I say further It is agaynst that which the Apostle there both intēdeth and expresseth to wit that we should pray for our brethren after they be dead if
he say the contrarie For these be his wordes That forgiuenes of his sinnes was graunted that he might not be stopped from receiuing life euerlasting and yet the effect of that same threatening followed that his godlines mighte in that humilitie be exercised and proued not onely but also as he saide in another place that he might thereby be beaten temporally for his deserts though he expresse not this cause also in this place for that he had here to answere the Pelagians and shewe some cause why death if it came onely by sinne by originall sinne remaineth still vpon all men euen them also whose originall sinnes are so fully forgiuen in Baptisme that they owe nothing neither eternally neither temporally for them Pur. 43. But for a slat conclusion contradictory to M. Allens assertion I will vse you say the very words of Chrysostome in the 8. Hom. vpon the Epistle to the Rom. Vbi veniâ— ibi nulla erit poena Where there is forgiuenes there is no punishment One may sée by this that you would vse the Doctors words as couragiously as we do if they were on your side as they be on ours But it cooleth your courage because you are faine to coÌ„fesse them in many things to be playne against you and not able neither to mainteine that they be with you when you pretende they be As here S. Chrysostome speaketh of the forgiuenes geuen in Baptisme to the Iew passing from the wrath of the Lawe to the grace of Christ But our assertion speketh of the forgiuenes geuen in the Sacrament of penance to the Christian that hath shamefully dishonored the grace of Christ If such be contradictories with you then as your Diuinitie is new so is your Logicke also new Satisfaction Pur. 87. Against the third you alleage Chrysostome Ambrose but how fondly the very words that you alleage though we seeke no further Chryso de compun cordis li. 1. in fine will declare Non requirit Deus ciliciorum pondus c. God requireth not the burden of shirtes of heare saith Chrysostome nor to be shut vp in the straites of a litle Cell neque iubet neither doth he commaunde vs to sit in obscure darke Caues this only it is which is required of vs that we alwayes remember and â—count our sinnes c. He there reproueth them that 〈…〉 â—rie mourning for their owne soules quasi quidum 〈◊〉 labor sit as if it were a labour intolerable Therefore he saith that God doth not commaund as necessarie that 〈…〉 take him selfe to the straite â—mourning of Monkes 〈…〉 And 〈◊〉 forsooth do tell vs therupon that Chrysostome â—f any man had 〈…〉 â—ther beleeue him speaking of such kind of wo◠〈…〉 his fellowes count to be the chiefe works of pâ—n 〈…〉 that they serue not for satisfaction for our sinnes vnto God 〈…〉 againe Therfore by Chrysostomes iudgement that 〈…〉 satisfaction of Gods righteousnes nor any obedience of Gods commaundement hath banished the Heremites 〈…〉 Anachoretes and cloyed the world with cloysterers but the superstitious and slauish feare of Purgatorie and the blasphemous presumptuous pride of mens merites Thus you take on as it were vpon S. Chrysostomes saying not considering that Demetrius was a Monke to whom he there writeth commending 〈◊〉 singulerly for the very same works of penance 〈…〉 nor that Chrysostome also him selfe was a Monke and that by your owne coÌ„fession and wrote a booke which is extant Aduersus vituperatores vitae Monasticae Against the dispraysers of the Monasticall life that is euen against you also for saying as you do in this place Againe you say Pur. 8â— Aâ— in 〈◊〉 22. li. 1â— What S. Ambrose thinketh of that kind of satisfaction whereof M. Allen speaketh is plaine by those words which he vttereth of Peter Lachrymas eius lego satisfactionem non lego I reade of his teares I reade not of his satisfaction He vttereth these words also there immediatly before Non inuenio quid dixerit inuenio quod fleuerit I find not what he said I find that he wept Whatsoeuer you gather hereof he that readeth the place must néedes gather the contrarie so wit that he thinketh Confession necessarie and satisfaction necessarie but that teares are both a special kind of coÌ„fession for Lachrymae crimen sine offensione verecundiae coÌ„â—tentur Teares confesse the crime without touch of shamfastnes quod voce pudor est consiterâ— that to confesse with voyce is a shamefast thing and also a speciall kind of Satisfaction forLachrymae veniam Teares though they do not aske pardon they obteine it Which yet againe he saith not as though onely teares woulde serue but Peteâ— opened not his mouth least so quicke requesting of pardon might more offend First we must weepe and then request But a playne place to know what S. Ambrose thought of Penance and Satisfaction is his whole booke To the Virgin that had broken her vow and namely these words Ambro. ad virg lapsaÌ„ ca. 8. Pur. 84. Grande sâ—elus grandem habet necessariam satisfactionem For a passing great crime is necessarie a passing great satisfaction Which words import none other thing you say but that an haynous offence must be earnestly bewayled if repentance be not counterfaited As though he there doubted lest her repentance were counterfaite and not earnest saying yet vnto her Tu quae iam ingressa es agonem poenitentiae Thou who art already entred into the or exercise field of penance with muche more to the same effect declaring I say that he tooke her penance to be vnfaigned as béeing well begon but yet besides that her whole life is litle enough to make iust satisfaction vnto God Pardons Wherein he is so vehement that you come agayne on the other side touching our fourth Article and pretende by the same word of his that the Church can not pardon the penance or satisfaction which sinners do owe. Where I say nothing how you ouerthrow your owne ignorant imagination that the old Canonicall satisfaction was onely to satisfie the Church ur 8 5. and not to satisfie Gods iustice As though not only the Church but also euery priuate man may not pardon such kind of satisfaction as the sinner oweth to him and hold himselfe contented with as litle as he list Therfore to omit this He assureth her you say as Cyprian in his Sermon de Lapsis doth the fallen men of his time that forgiuenes of sinnes is proper vnto God onely and followeth not of necessitie the sentence of men but the sentence of men ought to follow the iudgement of God Pur. 73. Alluding belike to the place where somewhat afore you alleaged Cyprian gathered of his words that not onely he plainly denieth that absolute soueraigne authority of men which M. Allen affirmeth but also declareth what he meaneth by satisfaction of God to wit inwarde and hartie conuersion The two places in déede are like although the fall of that
Psalme is it not a prayer for thē trow you or was not Purgatorie trauelled into Affrike neither when S. Augustine wrote as aboue because there also they caried their corpses with Psalmes In so much that soone after S. Augustines death Victor bishop of Vtica reporting the lamentable deuastations of the Catholike Churches there by the Arrian king Gensericus Victor de pers Vand. li. 1. fol. 3. b. saith among other things Quis vero sustineat sine Lachrymis c. And who can abide without teares to remember when he commaunded our deads corpses to be caryed vnto burying with scilence without the solemnitie of Psalmes Which lamentation you haue in England renewed to vs with addition also in that our Priests neither with scilence may burie the corpses of our Catholike brethren but your Ministers a Gods name with whom they would not communicate in their life must haue the laying vp of their bodies after their death a disordered folly in you Heretikes and the sinne of Schisme in suche Catholikes as geue consent vnto it Pur. 327. from .323 To these memories oblations and sacrifice for the dead doth belong also the place of Possidonius whiche you saye proueth plainly that it was the sacrifice of thanks giuing that was offered for the commendation of the godly and quiet deposition or putting off of his body Where he writeth of S. Augustine thus Nobis coram positis c. In our presence the sacrifice was offered vnto God Possid in vita Aug. cap. 31. for the cōmending of his bodies deposition and so he was buried Meaning by the bodies deposition not the putting off by death but the laying downe of it in the earth by burying as by leuatio corporis the taking vp againe of the bodies or Relikes of Saintes you might haue perceiued if you had beene skilfull in Antiquitie And by commending the deposition he meaneth the commendation of his soule to God vpon that day as I tolde you before Both which you might haue playnly vnderstoode by that which D Allen in the very same paragraph alleageth out of S. Augustine speaking of his mother Aug. 9. cōf ca. 12.14 Nam neque in eis precibus ego fleui quas tibi fundimus cum offeretur pro ea sacrificiū precij nostri iam iuxta sepulchrū posito cadauere priusquam deponeretur For neither in those prayers did I weepe which according to her request vpon her deathbed memoriam sui ad altare tuum fieri that memory of her might be made at thy altar we made vnto thee O God when the sacrifice of our price was offered for her the corpse nowe standing by the graue before it was laide downe Which place is so plaine that your selfe are faine to confesse that in the celebration of the Sacramēt the error of that time allowed prayers for the dead generally and speciall remēbraunce of some in the prayers namely because S. Augustine ther moreouer desireth God to inspire all his Priestes reading that booke Vt meminerint To remember at thy Altar Monica thy seruant and Patrike once her husband my Parents Repeating the same againe a litle after in these words In ministration of the Communion there was a speciall remembrance of her in the prayers as there was of all dead in the faith a generall memorie So that you vse indifferently these two prayers for the dead generally and a generall memory of the dead because you saw euidently that S. Augustine by remembring of his father mother at the Altar meant praying for them And yet such a cauiller you are Fulke the ansvverer Fulke the replier that D. Allen in saying memoriam sui a memory of her to be a memory for her must be charged with pseudologia as though she would haue her sonne to be a chauntrie Priest to sing for her not béeing able for all your gybing to deny but that he did both himselfe pray for her at the Altar if that be to be a Chauntrie Priest and procure other Priests to do the same Well by this practise about S. Monica the Reader perceiueth how properly you affirmed that it was only thanks giuing which Possidonius reporteth was done for S. Augustine But for al this you say although a memory or prayer was made for her in the celebration of the Sacrament yet was it not offered for hir as a Sacrifice and as a propitiation of hir sinnes No syr doth he not say expresly The sacrifice of our price was offered for her Yea but he expounded before in plaine words A friend of trust for Protestants August de verb. Apo. Ser. 34. that he meaneth thereby nothing els but the foresaid memorie Those plaine words neither you recite out of him nor no man els can finde in him as neither he nor any other reasonable man would vtter such a meaning in such words But these most playne words I find in him in another place Hoc a patribus traditum vniuersa obseruat Ecclesia vt pro eis qui in corporis sanguinis Christi communione defuncti sunt cum ad sacrificium salutare loco suo commemorantur oretur This as a Tradition of her Fathers the whole Church obserueth when they which are departed in the cōmunion of Christes body and bloud for the excōmunicate so were not be in their place mentioned at the healthfull sacrifice to pray for them What more Ac pro illis quoque id offerri commemoretur and to expresse that for thē also the sacrifice is offred Of particular Doctors Whether S. Augustine doubted of Purgatory Notwithstanding all this you will néedes haue fooles beléeue that S. Augustine was doubtfull in the matter of Purgatorie notwithstanding also that he so playnly prayeth for his mother Therefore O Lord God Aug. 9. confes 13. setting aside her good dedes for a while for which with ioy I do giue thee thanks Nunc pro peccatis matris meae deprecor te now I beseeche thee for my mothers sinnes for which at this day we also pray for the most Pur. 328. perfect excepting vndoubted Martyrs vntill by Canonization they be knowen to be Saintes Heare me for the medicine of our wounds that hung on the Crosse and sitting at thy right hand intreateth for vs c. So playnely Pur. 327. I say that you confesse this place to proue prayer for the dead vsed by S. Augustine and are fayne to saye It was all but superstition or will worship in him according to the corrupt motion of his owne minde Pur. 270.279.315 Au. ep 64. Enchi c. 110 de cur c. 18. Pu. 54.110 121.161.187 382. In another place also that he alloweth oblations for them that sleepe to profite somewhat Oblationes pro spiritibus dormientium vere aliquid adiuuare credendum est And yet for all this Augustine was very vncertayne you saye very often vnconstant and doubting of it so that Satan whose instrument you make that blessed Doctor was but then laying
Euery mans state we saye both is at his death and shal be at domesday according to his merites in his life Neither he that is clensed in Purgatory hath his merites either multiplied or amplified thereby but onely his veniall sinnes and temporall debtes taken away In the former place his words are these Although Abraham were in hell or in the inferior partes yet he was seuered with a long space betweene so that there was an huge chaos inter iustos peccatores quanto magis impios Betweene the iust and the Catholike sinners how much more the impious Heretikes Vt iustis esset refrigerium peccatoribus aestus impijs vero ardor That to the iust might be ease and heate as it were of the sunne to the sinners but fierie heate to the impious vt ante iudicium quo vnusquisque dignus esset non lateret that which eche sort were worthy of might before the iudgement be partly knowen Now how you can inferre of these words that no man feeleth payne after this life although S. Ambrose him selfe say it expresly in other places but he that shall feele it eternally I sée not Vnlesse perhappes you would binde him to yéelde a reason of Purgatory paynes withall when he yéelded a reason of Abrahams bosome and of the damned Soules hell or els haue him pronounced guiltie of contradiction and Purgatorie by your argument ab authoritate negatiuè quite subuerted From this saying of S. Ambrose we might well passe to the sayings of other Doctors alleaged agaynst Limbus patrum a friend of Purgatories but onely that we must stay a litle while for your pleasure Pur. 142.143 Emis ho. 3. de Epipha Ber. in vita Humberti with Eusebius Emissenus though him you take for a counterfaite and S. Bernard Because these two set foorth very terribly but truly the paynes of Purgatorie therfore with you the one sheweth him selfe an vtter enemie to the release of the same and the other denieth the remedie or remission of them As if you would say that the holy Scripture also where it preacheth Gods iustice denieth his mercy though in other places it preach his mercy no lesse For sée you not S. Bernard as earnest also for the remedie of those paynes where D. Allen alleageth him calling your friends the Apostolicie of his time Pur. 420. Ber. Ser. 66 in Cantica miscreants and doggs for laughing vs to skorne saith Bernard that we baptize infants that we pray for the dead that we require the helpe of the holy Saintes In so much that your self also confesse in another place saying Bernard is of opinion that sinnes not remitted in this world Pur. 194. may be remitted in the world to come Whether Purgatory be only for Veniall sinnes One other litle stay we must make about S. Augustines iudgement Pur. 122.448 being this as you say That Purgatory serueth to purge none but very small and light offences Wheras D. Allen saith that it is for great faultes also which by penance are made small alleaging for it this playne place Quaedam enim peccata sunt quae sunt mortalia Pur. 128. August de ver fal Poen ca. 18. in paenitentia fiunt venialia non tamen statim sanata For there be certaine sinnes which be mortall and in penance be made veniall but not straight healed As oftentimes certen sick persons would dye but for Phisick yet are not straight healed Lanquet victurus qui prius erat moriturus Feeble he is though now to liue and not to dye as before And therefore although one truely conuerted at the poynt of death from his wickednes nequitia c. shall be saued Yet we do not promise him that he shall escape all payne Nam prius purgandus est igne purgationis qui in aliud seculum distulit fructum conuersionis for he must first be purged with the fire of Purgatorie who in this world conuerted but deferred the fruite of conuersion to the other world Studeat ergo quilibet sic delicta corrigere vt post mortem non oporteat talem poenam tolerare Therfore let euery one labour so to amend his sinnes also after his conuersion because he is now as the sicke person past daunger of death but not healed as yet that after death he suffer not such passing grieuous payne You tooke not the paynes to take the booke and reade the place and therefore blindly you say that this Doctors words are playnly of light and smal offences and not of heinous and great offences euen also against your owne eyes that sawe the word Mortalia And againe that the manifest meaning of his words is not of a mortall sinne forgiuen as though he said that it become a veniall trespasse but that a mortall sinne may be pardoned Whereas he speaketh so manifestly of a mortall sinne after penance as of a mortall disease after Phisicke the daunger of soule death in the one as of bodily death in the other béeing now past but the healing behinde and therefore also daunger of Purgatory payne for it behind D. Allen alleageth for the same also Enchir. cap. 71. where S. Augustine affirmeth that Et illa peccata a quibus vita Fidelium sceleratè etiam gesta sed poenitendo in melius mutata discedit Also those sinnes in the which the faithfull haue wickedly lyued but nowe by penance lefte them chaunging their liues to better are after taken away by the same remedies as minima quotidiana peccata breuia leuiaque peccata the least and daily the short and light sinnes to wit among other remedies by the Pater noster which is the dayly prayer of the faithfull Which also in the next world he admitteth ca. 69. and 70. of the said Infanda crimina qualia qui agunt regnum dei non possidebunt Gal. 5. heinous crimes which depriue the parties of Gods kingdome Si conuenienter poenitentibus eadem crimina remittantur If the same crimes be forgiuen them in the Church vpon their due penance then he graunteth I say that such persons also may be saued by Purgatory fire after this life and not they onely that dye with Veniall sinnes This D. Allen there alleageth briefly and you say neuer a word vnto it Pur. 120. Onely you snatch those words which he alleageth among others out of another place to another purpose Illo enim transitorio igne non capitalia Au. Ser. 41. de Sanctis 1. Cor. 3. sed minuta peccata purgantur By that transitorie fire whereof the Apostle saith He shal be saued by fire are purged not mortall but light offences neither considering that he speaketh of purging culpam the fault it selfe for he speaketh against them that continue still in cōmitting mortall sinnes and deceiue them selues with false securitie while they think that peccate ipsa those sinnes may be purged by the transitorie fire them selues afterwards come to euerlasting life Nor knowing that he there also very
then with you in ten and namely to declare the effect of the Sacraments according to the Councell of Trent Sess 8. c. 7. which in another place you cite to such as receaue thē Fiftly argumentes néede not you say playnly The spirituall Priesthood is common to al Christian men and women Pur. 450.451.299 1. Pet. 1. as true it is and against all other Priesthood of any Christian men you say in the same place There is no Priesthood to offer sacrifice propitiatorie but onely the Priesthood of Christ according to the order of Melchisedech Heb. 7. By and by after making vs as in a great absurditie to say Christ is not onely our high Priest according to the order of Melchisedech For euery hedge Priest is of the same order Why you call thē hedge Priests looke you But this cannot be denyed that in the Scriptures and in the Primitiue Church certaine Christian men were Priestes otherwise then Lay men and women as the Apostles S. Timothie S. Hierome S. Cyprian c. And therefore then there was some other Priesthood besydes the spirituall Priesthood which is common to all And therefore againe you haue taken away the Priesthood by your owne confession Sixtly and lastly if to salue this deadly sore you will inuent some third kind of Priesthood I say that the primitiue or fathers Priesthood was according to the order of Melchisedech to offer a sacrifice in bread wine The sacrifice of the Masse as Melchisedech and Christ did And therfore you be against the Priesthood because you be against this Priesthood arguing rayling at it al that you can But we Christians to whom this Priesthood is playnly descended from the Apostles and Fathers none of you all being able to shew any later origine of it regard not your arguments they be but obiections And yet to defend the truth more fully for our Fathers and not onely for our selues we solue them euery one But first that the Reader may see whose aduersarie you be herein he shall heare S. Augustine The Manichée had falsified S. Paule making him to say qui sacrificant Au. cō Ad uer leg prophet li. 1. c. 19.20 1. Cor. 10. daemonijs sacrificant They which sacrifice do sacrifice to diuels quasi omnes qui sacrificant non sacrificent nisi daemonibus as if al that sacrifice do not sacrifice but to deuils He therfore sheweth the Apostle not to say qui sacrificant they which sacrifice but quae sacrificant the things that they sacrifice speaking of the Idolatrers They do sacrifice to the diuels and you therefore are communicantes with the diuels if you eate of those sacrifices euen as Israel secundum carnem the Iudaicall people eating of their sacrifices was therby partaker of the Altar in their Temple Deinde secutus adiunxit ad quod sacrificium iam debeant pertinere Then he followeth and addeth to what sacrifice the Corinthians now must pertaine being Christians and Israel secundum spiritum saying The Chalice of blessing which we doe blesse is it not the Communication of the bloud of Christ The bread which we breake is it not the participation of the body of our Lorde vt intelligerent ita se iam socios esse Corporis Christi quemadmodum illi socij sunt altaris That they might vnderstand themselues now to be Communicātes of the body of Christ so as the Iewes are Communicantes of their Altar And then a few lines after The Churche from the Apostles time by most certaine Successions of Byshops to our time and hereafter doth continue et immolat Deo in corpore Christi sacrificium laudis and doth sacrifice to God in Christes Body a sacrifice of praise Psal 49. For this Church is Israel after the spirit from whom is distinguished that Israel after the fleshe who serued in the shadowes of sacrifices by which was signified the singular Sacrifice which now Israel secundum spiritum doth offer Iste immolat Deo sacrificium laudis c. Psal 109. This Israel doth sacrifice to God a sacrifice of praise not after the order of Aaron but after the order of Melchisedech Nouerunt qui legunt c. Gene. 14. The Readers know what Melchisedech did bring forth when he did blesse Abraham And now they be partakers thereof they see such a sacrifice now to be offered to God ouer all the worlde Mala. 1. Et quod Deum non paenitebit c. And where the Psalme sayeth God will not repent him it is a signification that he will not chaunge this Priesthood for he changed the Priesthood after the order of Aaron And not onely S. Augustine but the whole rancke of the holy Fathers doth teach the same such a Priesthood to be and to continue in the Church to offer suche a sacrifice in the forme of bread and wine tearming it after the order of Melchisedech Pur. 295. in so muche that you also confesse and say Those of the olde Writers which compare the celebration of the Lordes Supper with Melchisedeches bread and wine which you say they call sometime the Sacrifice of bread and wine noting that as though it made against Transubstantiation which vayne collection I haue refuted here cap. 8. pag. 148. and also adding further And yet but a sacrifice of thankesgiuing Whether but for thankesgiuing and not also for procuring mercy I haue here at large examined cap. 9. pag. 196. to 204. But that is nothing to the matter which we haue nowe in hande For a Sacrifice of thankesgiuing is and in the olde Lawe was a Sacrifice no lesse properly then a Sacrifice of propitiation And the Sacrifice of the Crosse was both I trow and therefore the Sacrifice of the Altar to be the one what doth that let but it maye be the other also Likewise a memoriall Sacrifice of Christes passion no lesse then a prefiguratiue Sacrifice is a true sacrifice though it be not called his very passion but by a similitude And therefore al that you alleage out of Augustine Pur. 292.316.320 Chrysostome Cyprian Irenée Iustine Ambrose although they saide all as you woulde haue them that this is a memory of Christes passion and not his passion but only in a mysterie is all nothing to the purpose Pur. 292.294.320.321.326 And therefore you haue yet a better aunswere in store We confesse you saye that of the olde Writers it is commonly called a Sacrifice but vnproperly And howe do you shewe that Because * Ambr. ad virg lapsā De virg l. 1. orat in fr. Satyr one of them saith of a virgine that to her death is vnspotted that her Parentes might count her Hostiam viuam a liuing Sacrifice propitiatricem suorum videlicet delictorum a Propitiatrix or procurer of mercy for their sinnes by making intercession for them to God in heauen You might as well argue that S. Paule in saying Christes body by death to be made a Sacrifice Heb. 10. speaketh
of Iamnia for the which God suffered c 2. Mac. 12. ver 32.40 thē to be ouerthrowen after Pentecost by the souldiers of Gorgias And then Iudas sent that money to those vnspotted Priests at Ierusalem to offer Sacrifice for their sinne The chiefe of which Priests in the absence of Iudas him self were his brethren Ionathas and Simon and not Menelaus nor any of those other Apostataes You might haue learned by those bookes that the succession of the true Pontifices or High Priestes for that time was this a 2. Mac. 3. ver 1. 2. Ma. 4. ve 7.10.14.26 2. Ma. 4. ve 33 34. 2. Ma. 5. ve 5.7.9 Onias e 1. Mac. 2. ver 1.70 Mathathias f 1. M. 3. v. 1. 1. M. 9. v. 18 Iudas i Ionathas k Simon And that these others a 2. Mac. 3. ver 1. 2. Ma. 4. ve 7.10.14.26 2. Ma. 4. ve 33 34. 2. Ma. 5. ve 5.7.9 Iason b 2. Mac. 4. v. 24.29 2. Ma. 13. Menelaus c 2. Ma. 4. ver 29.41 Lysimachus g Alcimus were but Antipontifices or false vsurpers against these to wit a 2. Mac. 3. ver 1. 2. Ma. 4. ve 7.10.14.26 2. Ma. 4. ve 33 34. 2. Ma. 5. ve 5.7.9 Iason the author of the Apostasie from the Law against his brother Onias and secondly Menelaus against the same a 2. Mac. 3. ver 1. 2. Ma. 4. ve 7.10.14.26 2. Ma. 4. ve 33 34. 2. Ma. 5. ve 5.7.9 Onias and thirdly Lysimachus brother to Menelaus After the Apostasie thus begun that liuely Image of Antichrist king d 1. Mac. 1. 2. M. 5. v. 11 Antiochus Epiphanes taketh Ierusalem martyreth the Law-kéepers finally setteth vp in the Temple the abhomination of Desolation being a Statuee of Iupiter Against him his riseth the foresaide e 1. Mac. 2. ver 1.70 Mathathias and after him his sonne f 1. M. 3. v. 1. 1. M. 9. v. 18 Iudas Machabeus who repurged the Temple the same day thrée yeres that it was polluted Anno 148. And the next yere Antiochus dyeth his sonne Antiochus Eupator succéedeth with him striueth for the kingdome g Demetrius Soter An. 151. to whom fled the wicked of Israel and Alcimus their Capteine qui volebat fieri Sacerdos to complayne of Iudas g 1 Mac. 7. ver 1.5.9 1. Mac. 9. ver 54.55 Which Alcimus dyed of Gods hand the next yere after the killing of Iudas i 1. M. 9. ve 31.10 v. 18.13 v. 23. and could neuer get Ierusalem the Temple but alwayes after the repurgation it continued in the gouernmēt of Iudas and of Ionathas after him and then of his other brother k 1. Mac. 13. v. 8.36.41.43 Simon Of whose Priesthood also High priesthood the text is playne in their seuerall places here noted in the margine I wil recite the wordes that are written of the last * 1. Mac. 13. ver 42. The yere 170. the people of Israel began to write in their Court-rolles and Records thus Anno primo sub Simone Summo Sacerdote magno Duce Principe Iudaeorum The first yere vnder Simon the High Priest the great Duke and Prince of the Iewes Certaine other poyntes of your grosse or rather malicious ignorance in the Scrirtures are about Antichrist As that the Church of Christ should prepare his way or worke his mysterie that his Reuelation or comming should be so soone after the beginning of the Church and so long before the consummation of the world that the Churches flying into the wildernes in his time should be to be driuen out of the sight of the wicked and knowledge of the world that his raigne should last so many hundred yeres that he should be a Succession of certayne men and not one only certaine person that the Church should be come againe out of the wildernes and yet Antichrist raigning still These are the very foundations of your new Lutheran and Caluinistical Gospell and yet no ground at all for them or any one of them in the holy Scriptures of God but onely in the weake sande of your owne blasphemons but bold asseuerations in presence of fooles who haue auerted their vnhappie yeres away from trueth and conuerted them vnto your fables Againe that the body of Christ is not offered to him selfe but thanksgiuing is offered to him for the offering of his body for vs. Pur. 316. Why Syr did not he vpon the Crosse offer his owne body as a man and a priest to him selfe as to God You noted others here cap. 4. pag. 28. and cap. 6. pag. 63. as for saying that it is not lawfull to pray to God the Sonne and there S. Fulgentius tolde you as the Fathers Créede doth that ech person of the blessed indiuiduall Trinitie Simul odoratur conglorificatur Is with other at once adored and conglorified no sacrifice neither that of Christes body whether it be vpon the Crosse or vpon the Altar béeing priuate to one but common to all thrée Agayne that you call it a vayne amplification and fond supposition Pur. 155. to extend the force of Christes death beyond the limits of his will As though it were not of force to worke any whit more then it worketh in acte as to saue so muche as one of them that shall not be saued Contrarie to this expresse Scripture He is the propitiation for our sinnes 1. Ioan. 2. and not for our sinnes onely but also for the sinnes of the whole world And contrarie to this saying of your owne in another place Pur. 34. Concerning the sufficiencie of Christes Redemption there is nothing can be spoken so magnifically but that the worthinesse thereof passeth and excelleth it Againe that to remit sinnes is proper vnto his Diuinitie As though he Pur. 26. that is to say our Sauiour Christ doth not remit sins according to his humanitie also No maruell to sée you denie this power to his ministers when you denie it to the Sonne of man him selfe Mat. 9. The people in the Gospell vnderstood him otherwise when your fathers the Scribes called it a blasphemie for any to remit sinnes but onely God and the people contrariwise séeing his mirable that he wrought to proue his and his Churches doctrine herein did glorifie God for giuing such power to men hominibus Whervpon he when the time was come gaue commission to his Apostles Ioan. 20. saying As my Father sent me I also sende you Whose sinnes you forgiue they are forgiuen them Againe that pestilent doctrine of desperation wherein you say a Pur. 274.127.128.135.283 There be sinnes for which the Church ought not to pray euen of men remayning in this life a Pur. 274.127.128.135.283 for which it is not lawfull to pray a Pur. 274.127.128.135.283 which by the mercy of God are not pardonable for a Pur. 274.127.128.135.283 it is false that so long as men are in this world they maye
repent And how many such sinnes are there and which In one place you name two Obstinate and wilfull Apostasie and blasphemie against the holy Ghost after them you adde there c. Therefore looking in other places which be those caetera I finde where you name a Pur. 274.127.128.135.283 Contempt of all that preach Christ and repentance of our lothsome life past and saye then the which no vice is more mortall nor farther from forgiuenes In another place you name Saule 1. Sam. 16. for whom Samuel was not heard when he prayed and the obstinate Iewes Ier. 7.11.14 Ezech. 14. for whom Ieremy is often times forbidden to pray and the wicked generally because the Lorde testifieth that if Noah Daniel Iob prayed for them they shuld not be heard And you conclude therevpon Therefore there be sinnes for the which the Church ought not to pray and though she should pray yet she should not be heard euen of men remayning in this life Whereby it appeareth that in summe you say that it is vnlawfull to pray for any wicked person of what sorte soeuer his wickednes be so long as he continueth in his wickednes yea and that a Pur. 274.127.128.135.283 it is vnpossible for the wicked but to continue in his wickednes Such holsome doctrine you teach and that so often and so constantly yea also abusing the holy Scriptures for the same not onely in those places before noted 1. Ioan. 5. Mat. 12. Heb. 6. but also thrée places more There is a sinne vnto death for which we ought not to pray and He which sinneth against the holy Ghost shall neuer be forgiuen whosoeuer prayeth for him and There be some which sinne so horribly in this life that it is vnpossible for them to be renewed by repentance We were wont to matche you with your fathers the Nouatians Another old Heresie of the Protestants for denying the authoritie of Priestes to remit eyther all sinnes or some certaine sinnes and reseruing it to God alone But now when you say that some sinnes neither by the mercy of God are pardonable we must néedes confesse that you haue outshot them and therefore wonne the game from them What Acesius a Bishop of the Nouatians said to Constantinus the Emperour in the Nicen Councell yéelding the reason of their Schisme you may sée in Socrates who as a fautor of the Nouatians doth report it for their prayse Soc. li. 1. ca. 7.9 That they who after Baptisme fall into that kind of sinne which the holy Scriptures call Peccatum ad mortem Sinne vnto death ought not to be admitted to receiue the Diuine mysteries as other sinners customably were and are admitted after confession and the Priestes absolution but to exhort them to repentaunce or penance and that they looke for hope of forgiuenes not of the Priestes but of god who both can hath authoritie to forgiue sinnes But with you it is vnlawfull as to pray for them so also to exhort them to repentāce hope of forgiuenes at Gods hands Wel it is inough for a Christian man that it is the heresie of the Nouatians which you hold yea a maiori also and that the Catholike Church did then also practise as now The Protestāts also admit al to their Caluines bread by her Priestes to forgeue all sinnes without any such exception and so to admit all to our Lordes Body Yet for more comfort against all desperation I will answere to your places particularly 1. Ioan. 5. I say therefore that Sinne vnto death for the which S. Iohn saith not as you make him but onely thus Non pro illo dico vt roget quis I bidde not any man to pray for that is when one is dead in Mortall sinne and therefore now damned in hell which I shewed cap. 8. pag. 134. out of the text it selfe If that be not inough with you because you say Pur. 273.274 It is a new exposition and not onely voyde of all auncient authoritie but also hath all the olde writers against it and yet you do not nor can not alleage so much as one I say further Au. in r. 19. de Cor. gra ca. 12. it is S. Augustines exposition in diuers places and namely in his Retractatiōs which is much to be noted where to take away occasions from such Nouatians hauing aforetime written that he thought Peccatum fratris ad mortem The brothers sinne vnto death to be oppugning of the Brotherhood and enuying at grace it selfe he sayth Addendum fuit Si in hac scelerata mentis peruersitate finierit hanc vitam It should haue bene added therevnto If in this wicked peruersenes of minde he finish this life quoniam de quocunque pessimo in hac vita constituto non est vbique desperandum For because no man be he neuer so wicked is to be despeired of so long as he is in this life Nec pro illo inprudenter oratur de quo non desperatur Neither is it vndiscretely done to praye for him who is not despeired of Which is all one almost word for word also with that which D. Allen saith Pur. 274. and you gainesay where you say twise I deny your antecedent Heb. 6.10 Of S. Paules place also I gaue the right sense ca. 10. Dem. 24. He speaketh of Lapsi by name that is of such as deny their faith in persecution Of whom alone the Nouatians Heresie against the Priestes Power of forgeuing sinnes was in the first beginning Soc. li. 4. ca. 23. li. 7. ca. 25. as we reade in Socrates and others Now will you that all such dispaire But the Catholike Church in time of the Nouatians would not no nor the Nouatians them selues would so much as I haue shewed neither would S. Paule He saith Impossibile est eos qui prolapsi sunt reuocari ad paenitentiam It is vnpossible for such denyers to be renouated againe vnto repentance To be renouated againe what is that but all which he there said was done once afore to be done againe eos qui semel sunt illuminati they who once haue bene baptized for that Sacrament the Gréekes call Illumination haue also tasted the heauenly gift and bene made partakers of the holy Ghost in the Sacrament of confirmation Act. 2. ver 33.38 and haue tasted in the Sacrament of the Altar the good word of God and the puissances of the world to come For these Sacramentes were and are ministred adultis together with Baptisme And euen so the Fathers constantly expound this place against the Nouatians that it saieth no more but that a sinner can not be rebaptized can not be renouated ad inchoationem Christi to beginne Christ againe or ad fundamentum paenitentiae c. to the foundation of repenting from dead workes and of beleeuing in God of Baptismes and of Hands imposition They be the Apostles wordes in the same place and to them