BY Vertue of an Order to me granted by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament Assembled dated on Thursday the 28th of Octob. 1680 I do appoint Randal Taylor near Stationers Hall to Print this Trial of Roger Earl of Castlemaine and that no other Person or Persons print the same JO. COMBE London Januar. 12. 1680-1 THE TRYAL OF ROGER EARL OF CASTLEMAINE FOR High Treason In Conspiring the Death of the KING The Subversion of the Government and Introducing of Popery and Arbitrary Power BEFORE The Lord Chief Justice SCROGGS c. At the KING's BENCH Bar at Westminster the 23th June 1680 Where he was Acquitted LONDON Printed for S. G and N. E. and are to be sold by Randal Taylor near Stationers-Hall 1681. THE TRYAL OF ROGER EARL of CASTLEMAINE ROGER PALMER Esque Earl of Castlemaine in the Kingdom of Ireland having been Arraigned at the Kings Bench Bar the Sixteenth of June 1680 for High Treason To which he Pleaded Not Guilty c. On Wednesday the 23th of June 1680 being appointed for his Trial the Court being sate and the usual Formalities perform'd the Lieutenant of the Tower delivered him into Court and then the said Court proceeded as followeth Clerk of the Crown Cryar Make Proclamation Proclamation for silence Cryer O yes Our Soveraign Lord the King doth strictly charge and command all manner of Persons to keep silence upon pain of Imprisonment O yes If any one can inform our Soveraign Lord the King the Kings Serjeant at Law the Kings Attourney General or this Inquest now to be taken of the High Treason whereof Roger Palmer Esq Earl of Castlemain in the Kingdom of Ireland stands Indicted let them come forth and they shall be heard for the Prisoner stands at the Bar upon his deliverance Clerk of the Crown Cryer Make an O yes Cryer O yes You good Men that are empannelled to enquire between our Soveraign Lord the King and Roger Palmer Esq Earl of Castlemain within the Kingdom of Ireland answer to your Names Clerk of the Crown Roger Palmer Esq Earl of Castlemain in the Kingdom of Ireland hold up thy hand These good Men that were lately called and now here appear are to pass between our Soveraign Lord the King and you upon your Life or Death if you challenge any of them you must speak as they come to the Book to be Sworn and before they are Sworn JURY Sir John Cutler Knight and Baronet Sir Reginald Foster Baronet Henry Herriott Esq Richard Cheney Esq Thomas Johnson Esq John Robert's Esq Francis Dorrington Esq Hugh Squire Esq Charles Good Esq John Pulford Esq Edward Claxton Esq Francis Mayhew Gent. Cryer O Yes Our Soveraign Lord the King doth strictly charge and command all manner of Persons to keep silence upon pain of Imprisonment C. of the Crown Roger Palmer Esq Earl of Castlemain in the Kingdom of Ireland hold up your hand You Gentlemen of the Jury that are now Sworn look upon the Prisoner and hearken to his charge You shall understand that he stands Indicted by the Name of Roger Palmer Esq Earl of Castlemain in the Kingdom of Ireland for that he as a false Traytor against our most Illustrious and Excellent Prince and Lord Charles the Second by the Grace of God of England Scotland France and Ireland King Defender of the Faith c. and his Natural Lord not having the Fear of God before his Eyes nor weighing the Duty of his Allegiance but being moved and seduced by the Instigation of the Devil his Cordial Love true due and Natural Obedience which true and Faithful Subjects of our said Soveraign Lord the King ought to bear towards him altogether withdrawing and contriving and with all his might intending to disturb the Peace and common Tranquility of this Kingdom and to bring and put our Soveraign Lord the King to Death and final Destruction and alter the true Worship of God within this Kingdom established to the Superstition of the Romish Church and to stir up and move War against our said Soveraign Lord the King within this Realm of England and to subvert the Government thereof the Twentieth day of June in the Thirtieth Year of the Reign of our said Soveraign Lord Charles the Second of England Scotland France and Ireland King Defender of the Faith c. at the parish of St. Giles in the Fields in the County of Midd. with divers other false Traitors to the Jurors unknown did traiterously imagine and intend the killing death and final destruction of our said Lord the King and to change and alter and utterly subvert the Ancient Government of this Kingdom and to depose and wholly to deprive our said Lord the King of his Crown and Government of this Realm of England and to extirpate the true Protestant Religion And to accomplish and fulfil the same most wicked Treasons and Traiterous Imaginations and Purposes aforesaid the said Roger Palmer Esq Earl of Castlemain in the Kingdom of Ireland and other false Traitors to the Jurors unknown the same Twentieth day of June in the Thirtieth Year aforesaid with force and Arms in the Parish of St. Giles in the Fields aforesaid in the County aforesaid Advisedly Devilishly Maliciously and Traiterously did assemble unite and gather themselves together and then and there Advisedly Devilishly Maliciously Subtily and Traiterously did consult and agree to bring our said Soveraign Lord the King to Death and Final Destruction and to deprive him of his Crown and Government of England and to Introduce and Establish the Religion of the Church of Rome in this Kingdom and the sooner to fulfil and accomplish the same most wicked Treasons and Traiterous imaginations and purposes aforesaid he then and there did Falsly Maliciously and Trayterously promise divers great Rewards and did pay divers Sums of Money to several Persons unknown and then and there falsly and traiter ously did write divers Notes to incite several other Persons to accomplish the Treasons aforesaid against the Life of our Soveraign Lord the King his Crown and Dignity and contrary to the form of the Statute in such Case made and provided Clerk of the Crown Upon this Indictment he hath been Arraigned and hath pleaded thereunto Not Guilty and for his Tryal he puts himself upon God and his Countrey which Countrey you are Your charge is to inquire Whether he be Guilty of the High Treason whereof he stands Indicted or not Guilty If you find him guilty you are to inquire What Goods and Chattles Lands and Tenements he had at the time when the High Treason was committed or at any time since If you find him not Guilty you are to say so and no more and hear your Evidence Cryer O yes If any one will give Evidence on the behalf of our Soveraign Lord the King against Roger Palmer Esq Earl of Castlemain in the Kingdom of Ireland let him come forth and he shall be heard for the Prisoner now stands at the Bar upon his deliverance M. Bonithon May
it please you my Lord and you Gentlemen of the Jury the Prisoner at the Bar stands Indicted for High Treason for that he intended to disturb the Peace within this Kingdom establish'd and to destroy and alter the Government and to bring the King to Death and Final Destruction and to alter our Religion to the superstition of the Church of Rome did on the Twentieth day of June in the Thirtieth Year of the Reign of our Soveraign Lord the King consult and treat with several other Persons and that he with these Persons did agree to destroy the King and alter the Religion and cause Rebellion and further to accomplish these Treasons he did promise and agree to pay several Accompts and deposite several Sums of Money and did likewise write and publish several Books To this he hath pleaded Not Guilty If we prove these things you are to find him Guilty Att. Gen. May it please your Lordship my Lord Castlemain here stands Indicted for High Treason that is for Designing to Murther the King and alter the Government and Law and this is but a parcel of the Plot which hath been carrying on a great while and many persons tried for it and some have suffer'd and been executed for it And my Lord we will give your Lordship Evidence This my Lord Castlemain hath at several times conspired the Death of the King and that he hath reproved persons for not doing it And my Lord he hath been in Consults among Jesuits where these Matters have been carried on and this whole Design hath been negotiated And my Lord Castlemain hath been consenting and agreeing to all these Matters And my Lord when the Trials were in hand it did appear upon those Trials there were many persons brought from St. Omers to be Witnesses against Dr. Oates to prove he was not in England at that time when he said in his Depositions that he did consult with the Jesuits and these persons my Lord Castlemain had the management and instruction of at that time And all along at the Old Baily my Lord Castlemain was present there and did countenance these persons and was an Intercessor for them These are but Branches and Circumstances what is material we will prove by Witnesses Art Gen. Come Doctor Oates Pray tell what you know Prisoner My Lord I have a long time wished for this day and your Lordship may very well remember it The reason why I have so much desired a Trial is because I thought it a means and the best means and the only means to shew to the World my Innocency and also to shew to the World how much I have been calumniated by this Charge L. C. J. What have you to say Have you any thing to say against Doctor Oates Prisoner No my Lord. I only say this here I am a Prisoner at the Bar and I have pleaded not Guilty and throw my self upon this Court and therefore I am very willing to hear what this man will say D. Oates My Lord I humbly move the Court Whether or no I may use my own Method L. C. J. Give your Charge we direct nothing D. Oates My Lord In the year 1677 I was sent ever into Spain by the Jesuits that were here in England where I remained for several months and transacted Business for them and my Lord I returned from Spain in November and brought several Letters from some English Fathers there among which there was one directed for my Lord Castlemain My Lord I did not deliver the Letter to him but my Lord the Contents of the Letter were to this effect L. C. J. How came you to see the Contents D. Oates My Lord I was at the writing of the Letter and so I did see the Contents of it L. C. J. Did the Priests shew it to you Or did you only see it yourself D. Oates No my Lord It was shewn me by them And the Contents of this Letter were That the Fathers in Spain were very zealous to concur with the Fathers here in England in the Design which was the Subversion of the Government altering the Religion and the Destruction of the King L. C. J. Was that in the Letter D. Oates No my Lord not in words at length L. C. J. What was as far as you know the very Expression of the Letter D. Oates The word Design my Lord. L. C. J. Only that to promote the Design D. Oates Yes my Lord And under that word we did comprehend all those things that is as we usually took it among one another L. C. J. Did you deliver this Letter to my Lord Castlemain D. Oates No my Lord I did not deliver this Letter but when I went to St. Omers we received an Account from my Lord Castlemain of his receipt of this Letter L. C. J. What did you do with it D. Oates I left it with the Provincial my Lord who was then Mr. Strange L. C. J. Was it not given to you to give it him D. Oates It was given me to give the Lord Castlemain but being then a stranger to him I was willing to send one of his own Messengers with it L. C. J. Where was my Lord D. Oates I can't tell my Lord I did not see him then I went over to St. Omers in December 77 or the latter end of November L. C. J. Where were you when you gave this Letter to the Provincial D. Oates I was in London my Lord. L. C. J. Where did you receive this Letter D. Oates In Spain My Lord at Valledolid of one Armstrong L. C. J. Who was it directed to D. Oates To my Lord Castlemain but I did not then know him and so I gave it the Provincial my Lord I went over to St. Omers in the latter end of November or the beginning of December 77 and after I had been there some few days there did arrive a Packquet from London to St. Omers in which there was a Letter from my Lord Castlemain L. C. J. To whom D. Oates To the Fathers of the Society of St. Omers in which my Lord Castlemain gave them an Account of a Letter that he had lately received from Spain L. C. J. How did you know the Contents of this Letter D. Oates My Lord I was Privy to their Letters L. C. J. Was you acquainted with my Lord Castlemains hand D. Oates My Lord I will give you an Account of that I did not know it then but only as it was generally said among us L. C. J. How was it subscribed D. Oates Castlemain My Lord and sometimes my Lord he subscribed himself Palmer L. C. J. How many Letters have you seen D. Oates Several Letters L. C. J. Was this the first D. Oates This was the first as near as I can remember And my Lord he gave an Account in that Letter that he had received a Letter from Spain and was glad the Fathers in Spain had so good an Opinion of his Integrity in the Caused L. C. J. Did
he say from whom he had received it D. Oates My Lord I can't remember that that he had received a Letter I am certain L. C. J. Do you know what the purport of the Letter was D. Oates Yes my Lord I will give you a plain Account My Lord he wrote he had received a Letter from Spain and that he was glad the Fathers in Spain had so great confidence in his Integrity And my Lord in March there came another Letter from my Lord Castlemain for my Lord Castlemain had left some things at Leige wherein he did complain of the Fathers that they made no more haste for to send his things to him some odd things he had left there and my Lord he gave an Account of a certain Letter he received from the Rector of Liege whose Advice he did not like for the Rector of Leige and the Rector of Gant were mighty Zealous that the Secular Clergy should be personally present in this Affair L. C. J. Did he write so I would have you say what he writ D. Oates My Lord I have told you he gave an Account that he was unwilling to have the secular Clergy engaged because they were a loose sort of Men and of no Principles and therefore he thought them not fit to be trusted My Lord in April there was a Consult I came over from St. Omers in April some three or four or five daies before the Consult I am not able to guess at the particular time but it was near upon the Consult My Lord this Consult was divided into several Companies after they had met at the White-Horse Tavern wherein they did some things that did relate to the Order as to send Father Cary to Rome After that they divided themselves into several Companies wherein they did agree in ordering the Death of the King L. C. J. You were by D. Oates My Lord I was imployed by them to give an Account of the Sense of one company to another L. C. J. Were you by when they concluded the Death of the King D. Oates Yes my Lord I was then present L. C. J. Did you sign among the rest D. Oates My Lord I don't come here to accuse my self L. C. J. You are Pardoned if it be so D. Oates My Lord I did consent My Lord In this consult they met together and an Oath of Secrecy was administred my Lord Castlemain was there too within some few days after the Consult that is the Gentleman whom I accuse for Treason I say did come and enquired about the Copies of some Letters for to be sent up into Germany and did desire that an Agreement between them and the Monks might be made up there being a difference between them so that they might have the Assistance of that Order to carry on the Design L. C. J. What Gentleman was this D. Oates It was the Prisoner my Lord at the Bar. L. C. J. Would the Gentleman let you hear him say that he desired Assistance to carry on the Design and you a stranger to him D. Oates My Lord I do not think I was a stranger to him so much as he was a stranger to me he knew I was their Servant and employed by them L. C. J. Would he say in your hearing that he desired their Assistance to carry on the Design and you did not know him D. Oates My Lord I did not well know him at that time and I brought several Messages from the Fathers and from Mr. Langhorn and I gave them an Account before him L. C. J. How often had you seen him D. Oates That time he was there my Lord. L. C. J. How many Messages had you D. Oates I will tell your Lordship where I had been I had been at Mr. Simmonds's who was then Confessor to the Earl of Aurundel who is since turn'd Protestant Confessor to him as he pretended and we looked upon him to be And I had been at Father Cain's who was in Turnmill-street and I had been my Lord at Mr. Langhorn's in the Temple and some other places which I do not now remember it is so long since So my Lord I gave them Account of my business and I did see that Gentleman but did not know his Name till my Lord in June L. C. J. When was this D. Oates This was my Lord as near as I can remember in May. L. C. J. So you did not know his Name till Three Weeks or a Month after D. Oates No my Lord It was in the latter part of June J. Jones You saw him first in May D. Oates Yes my Lord. J. Jones And you did not see him till after the Consult I don't ask you whether he was there or no but whether you saw him before the Consult was Signed D. Oates No my Lord. L. C. J. How did you come to know his Name D. Oates My Lord In June Mr. Langworth and I were going over Lincolns-Inn-Fields intending to go to the Fountain in Fullers Rents because there was a sort of Drink that he loved and we were to drink together it was in the Evening and so in our way as we went we met with my Lord Castlemain whom Mr. Langworth did salute and then we came back to Mr. Fenwick's Chamber L. C. J. With whom did you come back D. Oates With my Lord Castlemain L. C. J. Did you know his Name D. Oates Mr. Langworth told me It was the Prisoner at the Bar my Lord and the Prisoner at the Bar was giving an Account of some Letters he had received out of the Countrey and Mr. Langworth was giving him an Account how forward the Rector of Leige and the Rector of Gant were in offering to have the secular Clergy engaged with them and some other Discourse they had which I can't remember but about the Design L. C. J. What did they talk of at that time You must as near as you can tell us what Discourse they had D. Oates I will give your Lordship this They were speaking of the Transactions of the Consult and how unanmious the Fathers were in Signing the Consult L. C. J. Who was speaking of it D. Oates Mr. Langworth and Mr. Fenwick and my Lord Castlemain was present L. C. J. They did talk of it D. Oates Yes L. C. J. Did they mention the particulars of that Consult D. Oates Yes L. C. J. What was that D. Oates Laying aside the King L. C. J. And what else D. Oates And bringing in the Popish Religion the Catholick Religion I speak their own words L. C. J. And this Discourse they had in the hearing of my Lord Castlemain D. Oates Yes and my Lord Castlemain said Now he should be revenged for the Injuries done to him L. C. J. Go on D. Oates I have nothing else to say of my Lord Castlemain that I can think of at present L. C. J. Now my Lord you may ask him what Questions you think fit Prisoner Mr. Oates Repeat your Journey again D. Oates My Lord
the Consult D. Oates No my Lord when we say the Consult we mean what was agreed on at that Consult not concerning these matters that were done Six Months before L. C. J. Mr. Oates Tell me when you mention the Design and the Consult Do not you alwaies mean the Death of the King and the bringing in Popery D. Oates Yes my Lord but the terms are not convertible For my Lord when we say the Consult there was something else done my Lord as that Consult which had not an absolute Relation to the Design and of that I will give your Lordship one instance as the sending Father Cary to Rome which they did in some Three Years L. C. J. Some trivial matters concerning their own Government but the thing you talk of is the same Consult and Design D. Oates When I speak of the word Design it was so taken among us and so received by my Lord Castlemain L. C. J. How can you say it was so received by him D. Oates Because he used the same word and answered us according to our Interpretation J. Jones My Lord he speaks of the Design thus There was a Design for the Killing the King there was a Design of the Priests and Fathers for it but saith he Afterwards there was a general Consultation and this Design came to be form'd by this general Consult which my Lord Castlemain as he thinks had no knowledge of till the time they met together in Lincolns-Inn Fields and afterward went and discours'd about it L. C. J. It is very fair that he doth not know that my Lord Castlemain had any knowledge before the Consult of this business but he says The Design upon which the Consult was that he might know which was to destroy the King and bring in Popery And he says My Lord Castlemain did understand this word Design in that sense they did because he answered their Letters according to their Interpretation of it How do you know he understood the word Design in its utmost capacity as you understood it D. Oates When we have our Words we have our Keys whereby we understand them But I will answer this Question to the satisfaction of the Gentlemen of the Jury My Lord he hath many times spoken in his Letters of introducing the Popish Religion and annext it to the word Design of promoting the Catholick Religion here in England L. C. J. Now methinks you have brought the word Design to something else than Killing the King D. Oates Yes my Lord The Subversion of Religion and the Government L. C. J. Did he put in Government Did he talk of bringing in the Catholick Religion and altering the Government D. Oates No my Lord I won't say that L. C. J. When we are examining concerning Mens lives we must be careful of their words in such matters D. Oates One part of my Evidence I have omitted Your Lordship did ask me how I came to know my Lord Castlemain's hand My Lord somtimes we received Letters from him subscribed Palmer and sometimes subscribed Castlemain sometimes some other Name which I may not remember and they were generally received as from him And I have seen my Lord Castlemain write for that Night as near as I remember it was Post-night L. C. J. At Fenwick's Chamber D. Oates At Fenwick's Chamber and my Lord Castlemain did write a Letter subscribed it and sealed it and I was fain to go to the General Post-House it was so late J. Jones What did he subscribe then D. Oates No my Lord I saw no more than the Superscription L. C. J. Then you did not see his Name to it D. Oates No my Lord. My Lord Castlemain did ask Why he had not Answers to such and such Letters For several Letters I had seen which were not of much moment L. C. J. I wish you had one that was of moment D. Oates It cannot be expected my Lord that I should have them L. C. J. My Lord ask him what you please Prisoner You say Mr. Oates you received Letters from me in Spain D. Oates I never said so Prisoner You saw Letters in Spain from me D. Oates Yes I have seen Letters in Spain that were from you Prisoner Look you Mr. Oates Pray let me ask you a Question you said this That you did not know me when you met me at the Consult D. Oates What Consult Prisoner At Fenwick's Chamber D. Oates I did not know you at Wild-house Prisoner There you met me first D. Oates There I met the Prisoner at the Bar. L. C. J. He says he did not know you at Wild-house but he came to know you by Langworth in Lincolns-Inn-Fields and then you went together to Fenwick's Chamber Prisoner Mr. Oates Did not you say that at Wild-house you did not know me nor I you L. C. J. He says he can't tell whether you knew him or no but he did not know you Prisoner Was I familiar with you D. Oates No my Lord. Prisoner Did I talk Treason at Wild-house D. Oates It was the Discourse of the day but I do not remember every particular of the Discourse but I remember what your Opinion was concerning the Rector of Liege and the Rector of Gant Prisoner Was there any thing about killing the King at Wild-house D. Oates Really my Lord I can't remember I wont charge it there because I am upon my Oath though I morally believe as to my self that there was discourse bad enough there Prisoner Mr. Oates Pray will you hear me then the acquaintance I had with you was by Mr. Langworth and then we went that Night to Fenwick's Chamber and there we staid very long and there we had all this Discourse D. Oates Yes Prisoner Look Mr. Oates Was there any by besides Mr. Langworth and Mr. Fenwick D. Oates Really my Lord I don't remember any body was by unless a Maid might come to fill a Cup of Drink or so Prisoner Mr. Oates Pray Mr. Oates did you and I ever meet together after that time D. Oates Really my Lord I can't be exact in that Prisoner Did you never see me nor Discourse with me after that time D. Oates I cannot recollect my self as to that I cannot remember L. C. J. He does not remember that ever he was with you afterwards Prisoner You don't know whether ever I discours'd with you afterwards D. Oates I don't remember Prisoner Very well Mr. Oates Look you Sir you don't remember that I ever had any Discourse with you after that time and no body was by but Mr. Fenwick and Mr. Langworth D. Oates As I remember Prisoner Was not there another Priest there D. Oates There is no body occurs to my Memory Prisoner Mr. Oates you brought me Letters from Spain D. Oates I brought a Letter from Spain directed to â—ou in 77. Prisoner Was I in Town or out of Town D. Oates I delivered it to the Provincial Prisoner You went over to Liege did not you see me there D. Oates No my Lord
I did not see you there I only went to wait upon a Gentleman that was a Priest afterwards that went to take orders Prisoner Did you not see me at Liege D. Oates No my Lord. Prisoner You were at Liege did you stay there D. Oates I lay there one Night Att. General Have you any thing to ask my Lord Prisoner Presently my Lord. J. Jones It is very reasonable my Lord should question you You own him to be the Lord Castlemain When was it you did first discover this business concernâ—â—g my Lord Castlemain D. Oates My Lord I did discover my Lord Castlemain to be in the Plot the Last Sessions of the Long â—arliament and I accused my Lord Castlemain this â—rinity Term was Twelve Months and my Lord Castlemain was committed for when Mr. Dangerfield came in and accused my Lord Castlemain I brought a Charge a second time against my Lord Castlemain J. Jones Did you discover all this then D. Oates I did charge him for having an hand in the Design in general J. Jones To the Parliament D. Oates Yes to the Parliament Prisoner You say when I assented to the Kings Death in Fenwick's Chamber that I said I should now find a time to be reveng'd D. Oates Pray my Lord don't put me to mention such reflecting Evidence Prisoner When you were before the King you did in pursuance of this speak of a Divorce D. Oates My Lord I will give Evidence as to that if that my Lord comes to be Indicted for his Priesthood L. C. J. My Lord may ask what Questions he shall think fit Att. General My Lord says he has said it and what he said in another place he is not to treat now of Prisoner Suppose I can prove him an Ill Man in any place is not that fit to be spoken of here Since he hath brought the King upon the Stage and since he hath accused me before the King and your Lordships of a Devorce I ask him whether he saw it D. Oates I will tell your Lordship what I said as to the Divorce I heard it discours'd of generally among the Fathers beyond Sea and this was some other part of the Discourse at Wild-house and I heard my Lord Castlemain say that he had been at great charg to carry on that business of the Divorce Prisoner At Wild-house D. Oates At Wild-house Now my Lord I took no notice of it because it was not my business But my Lord after that there was a Priests Chamber that was searched and there was the whole Case stated now what is become of the State of that Case my Lord I cannot tell L. C. J. By whom was that Case stated D. Oates There was a Letter found whereby my Lord Castlemain should have the matter directed in order to the carrying on the Divorce that was to be between him and his Wise Barbara Prisoner Did not you tell the King that you saw the Divorce in Strange's hand D. Oates My Lord I will tell you this I gave an Account to the King that I saw in Strange's hand an Acconnt of a Divorce that was between my Lord Castlemain and Barbara Dutcheis of Cleaveland Recorder My Lord if he ask too many Questions that don't relate to this matter it is impossible to give an Account of every particular Prisoner My Lords I humbly submit this Case Recorder Ask him what you said to such a man upon the Ninth of August was Twelve Month must he give an Account L. C. J. He must say he does not know Recorder Indeed it is reasonable that my Lord Castlemain should ask him some questions and that Mr. Oates should give him an Account Att. General My Lord will you give me leave to speak If he may ask questions about such forreign matters as this no man can justify himself L. C. J. This is not so mighty remote but use may be made of it Att. General If he should ask whether he were such a day at such an house and tell him yes and mistake the day any man may be catch'd thus Prisoner How can a man be catch'd in the Truth Att. General My Lord Castlemain may if he can catch him in any thing he gives in Evidence here Prisoner My Lord if your Lordship over-rule me I will say no more Mr. Atturney says I come to catch him I confess I do Att. General You should not ask him Forreign Questions L. C. J. He asks a plain Question why do you labour so much that he should not ask Whether he had seen the Divorce My Lord Castlemain I have askt the question for you Whether or no he said he had seen the Divorce and he does not remember whether he said so or no. Att. General My Lord I think with your Lordships leave that he is not bound to answer Questions that are not to the Evidence L. C. J. If so be he would come to make Application it may be well enough Att. General I say it for the Method of the Evidence my Lord that I would not have these Excursions Prisoner I desire your Lordship that I may say out what I have to say I say this that no man in the World that speaks truth can be catch'd neither will Mr. Atturney suffer me to catch him Att. General I say you have liberty to catch him in any thing that doth belong to the Evidence Prisoner I come to shew you the fitness of it to this Affair He comes and tells you among other Consults of Wild-house and my meeting him in Lincolns-Inn-Fields the recommendations of Mr. Langworth and going to Fenwicks Chamber where we talk'd of altering the Government and my assenting to kill the King and since you have brought the King upon the Stage I will refresh your Memory a little since you talk of revenging my self look you if you did not mention a Divorce to the King and also to my Lord Chief Justice Att. General My Lord you are under a mistake Prisoner Pray give me leave Mr. Atturney Att. General You make such Excursions into Forreign Matters Prisoner Mr. Oates you did say you saw a Divorce I ask you whether you saw a Divorce and where or whether you said so L. C. J. He says he does not remember he said so D. Oates I do not remember whether I said so or no my Lord I have it down but indeed I did not set my thoughts a-work Att. General He hath given you an Answer that may satisfie you J. â—aymond He hath Papers wherein he hath entred Memorandums to refresh his Memory but these Papers he hath not by him L. C. J. Then he may say he hath not Att. General That he hath already my Lord. L. C. J. Have you any more to say Prisoner I have my Lord if you will give me leave to write down two words Prisoner Mr. Oates You told my Lords the Judges that I did say I was at great expence about a Divorce Dr. Oates Yes Prisoner That is very well Mr. Oates Att.