church estate was dissolved their Temple and holy citie burned when Babylon and Bels temple in it flourished and was garnished with the holy vessels stollen out of Gods temple The Lord had swallowed up all the habitations of Jakob swallowed up Jsrael and all her pallaces destroyed his places of assemblie caused the solemne feasts and Sabbathes to be forgotten in Sion cast off his Altar abhorred his sanctuarie Mount Sion was desolate and the foxes walked upon it But was Babylon which thus abused Gods people and burned his Temple Gods church If not how should the Church of Rome which now is Babylon the mother of harlots and abominations of the earth which is drunken with the blood of the Saincts how should she be Gods church people or Temple 3. Had not that people also polluted the Temple of the Lord and fallen into notorious idolatrie c. for which they were given by the Lord into the hands of the Babylonians and were they not stil the Lords church and people c. Answ. They were some of them as before is shewed And so Christians having polluted Gods temple of Christianitie and fallen into idolatries and heresies were given over of the Lord some into the hands of the Turk as Israel into the hands of Assur some into the hands of the Pope as Iudah into Babel And such Israelites as embraced the religiō of the Assyrians Babylonians ceased to be Gods people actually til they repented others that resisted evil and kept the trueth as Daniel and his brethren were Gods holy people So all in Rome and Turkie that abide in the truth refusing their abominations are Gods holy people the rest that have received Maometisme and Antichristianisme are not Gods people actually albeit many of them are Gods elect and shal so be manifested when they come out from them But mine opposite changeth the state of the question turning it from Babylon it self to Israel Gods people in Babylon and so from the Church of Rome now Babylon to the faithful witnesses of Christ therin of whom none make doubt 4. Js there not difference to be put between the people of God in Babylon and Babylon it self c. Answ. Yes which whiles it is not held unto we are dallied with The controversie is about the church of Rome it self which is Babylon the reasons given are for Gods people open or secret in that Babylon Who seeth not the deceyt For God hath had his people in Rome not onely when it was Antichristian but when it was heathen and multitudes have been killed for Christ therin in both estates This justifieth not but condemneth Rome the murderer of the Saincts Obj. To make this matter yet more plaine observe Zach. 2. 6. 7. Ho ho come forth c. Deliver thyself ô Sion that dwellest with the daughter of Babylon This plainly sheweth that Sion is in Babylon not mount Sion it self c. but the people of God that perteyned to Sion among whom when God set his Temple he sayd withall I wil dwell in the midst of you shewing that the Temple was a token of his presence among them a band of the holy and mutual conjunction that was between God and them whether they were bound to come for to worship God and to bring their sacrifices Answ. In deed this maketh the matter more plaine For 1. here he grāteth the Temple to have been a token of Gods presence among his people but when so I applied it in expounding 2. Thes. 2. he resisted me and would have it there to be the people the church 2. This temple the token of Gods presence and band of his communion with his people God had forsaken For his people synning in it by their idols Ezek. 8. God in wrath sent destroyers upon them Ezek. 9 But before destruction he marked his people on the forehead that cried out for all the abominations Which being doen he slayed to destruction all others not marked both old and yong and began at his sanctuarie Then scattred he coales of fyre over the citie removed his glorie the signe of his presence out of his Temple and from the middest of the citie to signifie his departure from amongst them Then came the king of Babylon Gods servant to execute his wrath and performed the vision in burning both Temple and citie and carying the people thence into Babylon So Moses prophesie was fulfylled Levit. 26. 31. 36. Then both such godly ones as had not been polluted with the abominations in Ierusalem and had been marked of God for his such synners also as by their afflictions were brought to repentance and confessed their iniquitie and the iniquitie of their fathers and had their uncircumcised harts humbled and turned unto him with all their hart and with all their soule he mercifully respected them remembred his covenant towards them The rest perished in their synns being given over in just judgment whiles they were in that dispersion to serve other goods wood and stone though yet by his prophets God warned them not to doe it Ier. 10. So the Lord set the signe of his gracious presence in the Christian church Rev. 4. but they soon defiled it by their idolatries heresies for which they were chastised Rev. 6. Wherfore God in justice ready to bring further plagues marketh and sealeth on the foreheads such as were his Rev. 7. then his judgments came forth in greater measure Rev. 8. by a beast or kingdom whose chief seat should be in Babylon that is Rome he suffered the Saincts to be overcome and gave him power over all kinreds and tongues and nations that such as had not their names written in the book of life should worship him and be damned for ever In which Babylon or Popish church the Lord hath notwithstanding his open witnesses that withstand their abominations unto the death and many moe of his elect whom he calleth out in his time from that whorish church and these are the people of God that perteyn to mount Sion and wil no more justifie the state of the church of Rome at this day then Gods lost sheep of Israel justified Babylon of old Obj. Note here 1. That the people of God pollute his temple become apostates and idolaters and are captived in Babylon Answ. But note withall that they have their temple of God and holy citie consumed with fyre and are caried out of their holy land into an other synfull nation as before is shewed 2. That thus now Sion is in Babylon and consequently the Temple of God so to speak the people of G. the church of G. is in Babylon Ans. So to speak But the speech is unproper and God no where speaketh so The visible Temple was burnt and they had none with them in Babylon but Bels temple none of the Lords The lost sheep the people of God perteyning to mount
the naturall posterity is any sure proofe that a people continueth a church We must then have some other proof namely continuance in the faith of Christ which the church of Rome doth not but is revolted to Antichrist and his infidelity Where he maketh Gods ceasing to cal it back a signe of the churches ceasing first it is barely sayd without proofe Secondly it is obscure what calling back he meaneth For take the thousand yeare after Christ and see what calling back had Rome Was it by her owne ministery or hierarchy They were the Man of syn the ulcers of the church they called her further from God but not back from syn Extraordinary prophets at that time I think there wil scarce be found any but grant that there were doth not God so call back the Iewes and Turks at this day Doe not some turn to Christianity and perswade others to turne Doe not some suffer death among the Turkes for the truth Doe not some write bookes now to the Iewes in their own tongue to call them back unto God yet are not the Iewes therefore the church God called back the Gentiles from their apostasie by the Apostles preaching Mark 16. 15. and before he sent Ionah to the Ninivites yea Iudah and Israel he scattered among the heathens who called them back from idolatry as Daniel did Nebuchadnezar and Belshazzar And the Gentiles seated neere Canaan had alwayes as much meanes to be called to the Lords mountaine by the Israelites trading with them as the church of Rome hath at this day Besides the prophets that God raised up among the very Gentiles to call them from Idols unto God as Sibylla whose prophesies were famous among the heathen Greeks and Romans But for taking the Scriptures out of the adulteresses hand if ever church had it Rome hath had it For the Scriptures were in a manner buried kept in the closets of the hierarchy the people might not have them in their mother tongue nor read them on pain of death Were the Scriptures ever so taken out of the Iewes hand Nay they all have them read and study them more then many Christians And now that Bibles are printed and so common how is it possible the Scriptures should bee taken out of any heretikes hands otherwise then they have been from Rome When God gave Israel the bill of divorce did he take the Scriptures out of her hand If not as in deed hee did not then is not this a true rule that an adulterous church is never divorced nor ceaseth to be Christs church till the Scriptures be taken out of her hands Mr. Iunius elsewhere hath written better when speaking of some apostate churches of Christians as Marcionists Ualentinians and others of whom Hierom sayth They were not the Church of Christ but the Synagogue of Antichrist he readily granteth it because they denied the fundamental Articles of the doctrine of faith The like he granteth to Irenaeus assertion because sayth he he spake of heretikes and schismatikes which reteyned not the truth in the foundation thereof Now let us compare this with the former Did God cease to call back those heretikes and schismatikes Were there not many learned Doctors that disputed and wrote against them by whose meanes God still called them to repentance Or did God take the Scriptures out of those heretikes hands when they from them and by them pleaded for their heresies Thus the rule which Mr. Iunius hath given us for the church of Rome agreeth not with himself And if those heretical churches were not Christian but Antichristian synagogues then is the church of Rome much more which worshipeth the greatest Antichrist the man of syn and denyeth the foundation of Christian religion beleeving as the Pope beleeveth who either denyeth the Father and the Son or els he is not the Antichrist 1. Ioh. 2. 22. And that the Apostle meaneth not onely of open and direct denyall but of indirect and denying in deed when by word he professeth Christ Mr. Iunius himselfe D. Whitakers Mr. Brightman and others that have answered Bellarmines 14. chap. de Rom. Pontif. l. 3. doe soundly prove Now as the Pope denyeth Christ so doth the Whore of Babylon the Romish church holding the same heresies and idolatries that if the Pope bee Antichrist then is the church of Rome an Antichristian synagogue and not the true church of Christ. By this also mine opposites insultation against me as if I wrote errors and contradictions unreconcileable touching apostate churches is taken away For as I never denyed but some apostate churches continued true churches till the candlestick was removed for their impenitencie so neither could he nor can any truely deny but some apostate churches are mere synagogues of Satan as those Antichrists mentioned 1. Ioh. 2. 19. those heretical churches whoÌ„ Mr. Iunius himself denieth to be true Christian churches because they reteyned not the foundation And such by necessarie consequence is the church of Rome at this day But it it is a needlesse and wearisome labour to follow mine opposite in his tautologies and repetitions of the same things againe and againe to inlarge his work besides his manifold reproches I sayd of this Romane church It is not the woman fled into the wilderness Rev. 12. 14. but another woman or citie reigning over the King 's of the earth Rev. 17. 1. 18. c. What then sayth he difference is to be put between the inward parts of the Temple and the outward the parts measured and the parts unmeasured between Gods Temple Altar and worshipers therein Rev. 11. 1. and the court of the Temple given to the Gentiles and the holy citie trode downe by them 42. moneths v. 2. If it be not one of these shall it therefore be none of them Jf it be not the inward part of the Temple wil it fâ—llow it is not the outward c. Answ. He should have sayd though she be not the company of worshipers of God whom he measureth yet may she be the company of Gentiles that tread downe Gods courts and city whom he casteth out as unmeasured But he leaveth the comparison of persons and runneth to things Gods ordinances which she abuseth Of that Scripture Rev. 11. we have spoken before Of these two women in Rev. 12. and 17. the Scriptures are so plaine that none of good understanding can mistake the one for the other or as this man doth make the one a part of the other as if both put together should make one Temple one woman one Church When the one persecuted flieth from the Serpent or dragon the other in the Dragons throne persecuteth reigneth triumpheth abusing and treading under foot Gods ordinances which belong to the persecuted woman as the Babylonians abused the vessels of Gods sanctuary burned and trode down the holy citie the place of the womans assembly His question When was the time that the woman fled into the wilderness is
baptisme had in Rome we shall speak of it in due place Onely let it here be observed that this baptisme is there administred by such as are not of the body or Church by their own graunt but by ulcers gangrenes c. And Mr. Iunius himselfe answering Bellarmine so urgeth it saying of the Man of Syn the popish Hierarchie he is not properly of the Temple for the ulcer sayth he is not of the body though it be in the body So I straine not the similitude beyond the due proportion if Mr. Iunius his owne reasoning be good Object Of Himenaeus and Philetus it is sayd their word did eat as a gangrene 2. Tim. 2. 17. 18. would he then conclude that the baptisme ministred by them was not true baptisme c. Answ. First it is not sayd of the men but of their doctrine that their word fretted as a gangrene but Mr. Iunius maketh the very men ulcers and gangrenes in the body but not of it If the officers or members of a church teach heresie that doctrine is as a gangrene but the persons teaching them are truly officers or members of that church though synfull But in Rome the officers are ulcers not of the body in his account so his example is not fit Secondly if they were by the Apostle delivered to Satan as is probable by 1 Tim. 1. 20. then they and their folowers were no true Christian church but a synagogue of Satan to be reckned among the Antichrists 1 Joh. 2. 18. 19. and so could not administer true Christian baptisme to their disciples Obj. Where he againe denyeth any calling to be in the church of Rome and asketh How God doth call in that church let him ask it of such of his followers as have heretofore been of the Priests and members of that church c. Answ. He againe wrongeth me as too often saying that I deny any calling to be in that church it never entred into my hart I hold there is some calling in the churches of Turks and Iewes much more in false Christian churches I denyed that God is there calling as in his church which they plead for that is God hath not there his ordinary true ministers but Antichrists hierarchie doth call the people from God How be it by some whom God raiseth up of ministers or people his witnesses whom that church murdereth Rev. 11. 3. 7. and by reading the scriptures and other writings God calleth his people out of that Babylon Witness the late Archbishop Marcus Antonius de Dominis who testifieth that without persuasion counsel or advise of any man of what sort so ever he was by reading the scriptures and Fathers drawen to mislike and forsake that Roman church And thus among Turks Iewes heathens I doubt not but God calleth some from them by the light of his word and spirit Yea not onely in the church of Rome but by it and the ministerie of it God calleth his elect for as the Apostles doctrine in the true church was to the reprobates the savour of death unto death which yet is no condemnation of the true church or ministerie therof so some groundes of Christianitie doctrines in the false church by the false ministery erected to destroy mens soules with heresies and idolatrie God of his wisdom and goodnes causeth them to turne unto the conversion and salvation of his chosen which yet is no justification eyther of that church or ministerie Let this answer once suffice to all his repetitions And to Mr. Iunius on whom he so relyeth I could oppose Mr. Calvin man for man who sayth We see the horrible confusion that is in Poperie but yet there is not any doctrine to pluck men back to God nay rather the doctrine which is there doth draw them quite and clean from him And we see that the Divil hath gotten such sooting there that all is full of trumperie and illusions and the loving God is quite forsaken Sermon 31. on Deut 5. 7. Obj. What difference Mr. Junius observed between the ministerie simply considered and the hierarchie growen in that church upon it himself could best have shewed This here is evident that in one respect he acknowledgeth the hierarchie to be an order or estate of apostasie in the church an accident c. in an other respect he esteemeth the ministery of Gods holy things to be there though exceedingly corrupted Ans. By such differences and distinctions mine opposite would cary us from the trueth that I say not from common reason For he granteth the church it self the people to be exceedingly corrupted with most synfull and deep defection and apostasie yet in another respect to be the temple the people of God Now we have the like for the Bishops and Priests in one respect an order of apostasie in an other Gods ministerie Wherfore then have we been led about with distinctions of the ministerie or hierarchie from the church the one to be the Man of syn the son of perdition the other to be the Temple of God The plaine way should have been thus The Ministers and people of Rome are in one respect an apostatical church in an other a faithfull church in one respect the synagogue of Satan in an other the Temple of God But eyther my judgment faileth me or Mr. Iunius driveth at an other matter let men of understanding minde his writing Further I answer by like distinction we are to put difference between the Angels that synned or synfull men simply considered as Gods creatures and the poyson of syn which as an accident is growen upon them and this is true But shall that their being Gods creatures free them from damnation which that poyson that accident syn hath brought upon them No man of knowledge wil so say Even so the Man of syn the Pope hierarchie people of the church of Rome which are all in apostasie from the faith of Christ and service of God can not in that estate be judged heyres of salvation except God turne them againe to Christ for the scripture hath given sentence of their damnation 2 Thes. 2. 3. 10. 11. 12. Against their bare affirmations to prove Rome on Gods behalf altogether a church a company called of God with his calling by the spirit and the holy Scripture c. And that God calleth her with his calling by his spirit and word c. I objected the Apostles testimony God shal send them strong delusion that they should beleeve lies 2. Thess. 2. 11. and this is verified by the manifold heresies idolatries wherewith the whole body of that Church is poysoned And strong is the Lord God which wil condemne her Rev. 18. 8. and with the spirit of his mouth he wil consume that lawless one 2. Thess. 2. 8. Mine opposite replieth Might he not also thus conclude against Iudah in Apostasie that God did not cal that Church nor any in it or by any of them in that estate alleaging Ier. 5. 30. 31.