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A00338 A very pleasaunt [and] fruitful diologe called the Epicure, made by that famous clerke Erasmus of Roterodame, newly translated. 1545; Colloquia. English. Selections Erasmus, Desiderius, d. 1536.; Gerrard, Philip. 1545 (1545) STC 10460; ESTC S113434 22,502 94

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the courte spake vnto hym oftentimes saiyng they woulde coom̄ one day too his house and see what good chere he kept reprouyng greatly vile and homly fare and moderate expenses in all thynges He graunted they shulde bee welcome and very instauntly desired them And they came fastyng because they would haue better appetites Whā they wer set to dyner as it was thought ther wāted noo kynde of delitious meat they filled thē selues haboūdantly after y e feast was doone they gaue moost hearty thanckes for their galaunte cheare and departed euery one of them vnto their owne lodgynges but anone their stomackes beganne too waxe an hungred they maruayled what this shuld meane so soone to be an hungred and a thirste after so sumptuous a feast at the last the matter was openly knowen and laught at Spu. Not without a cause it had been muche better for thē too haue satisfied their stomackes at their owne chābers with a messe of potage thē too be fed so delitiousli with vain illusiōs H. And as I thīk y e cōmune sort of men ar muche more too bee laught at whiche in steede of Godlye thynges chose vaine and transitory shadowes and reioyce excedyngly in suche folishe phansies that turne not afterwarde in too a a laughter but into euerlasting lamentation and sorow Spudeus The more nerelier I note your saiynges the better I like thē Hedo. Go too let vs graunt for a tyme these thynges too bee called pleasaunt that in very dede ar not Would you saye that meeth were swete whiche had more Aloes myngled with it then honye Spud. I woulde not so say and if there were but the third part of an ounce of Aloes mixt with it Hedo. Orels would you wishe to bee scabbed because you haue some pleasure too scratch Spud. Noo if I wer in my right mynd HED. Their weigh with your self how great peyne is intermyngled wyth these false and wrongly named pleasures y t vnshamefast loue filthie desire much eatyng and drinking bring vs vnto I doo omitte now that which is principall grudge of cōscience enemitie betwixt God and mā and expectation of euerlastyng punishēment What kynd of pleasure I pray you is ther in these thinges that dooeth not bryng with it a greate heape of outeward euilles SPV. What bee thei HEDO. We ought to let passe and forbeare in this place auarice ambition wrath pryde enuy whiche of their selues bee heuy and sorowful euylles and let vs conferre and compare all those thynges together y t haue the name of some chief and special pleasure wher as the agew the hedache the swelling of the belly dulnes of witte infamy hurt of memory vomyting decaye of stomacke tremblyng of the body succede of ouer muche drynking thynke you that the Epicure would haue estemed any suche lyke pleasure as thys cōuenient and wourthy desire SPV. He woulde saye it wer vtterly too bee refused HEDONi Wheras young men also with hauntynge of whores as it is dayly seene catche the newe leprosie nowe otherwyse named Iobs agew and some cal it the scabbes of Naples throughe which desease they feele often y e most extreme and cruell paines of deathe euen in this lyfe and cary about abodye resemblyng very much some dead coarse or carryn do you thynke that ther apply them selues vnto godlye pleasure SPVD. Noo for after thei haue been often familiar with their pretyones then they must goo streighte too the barbours that chaunceth continuallye vnto all whoremongers HED. Now fayne that ther wer alyke measure of pain and plesure would ye then require too haue the toothache so longe as the pleasure of quaffing whor dome endured SPV. Verely I had rather wāt them booth for ther is no commoditie nor vantage to bye pleasure with payn but only to chaūg one thing for another but the heit choise is nowe not too affectionate anye such leudnes for MAR. Tullius calleth that an inward greife sorow He. But now y e prouocation entisemēt of vnleful plesure besides that it is much lesse then the pain which it bringeth with it it is also a thing of a very short time but if the leprosye bee ones caught it tourmēteth mē al their life daies very pitifully oftentimes cōstraineth them to wyshe for death before thei cā dye SP. Such disciples as those then the Epicure would not knowe HED. For the most part pouertie a very miserable and painfull burden foloweth lechery of immoderate lust cōmeth the palsie tremblyng of y e senewes blcardnes of eyes and blyndnes the leprosie and not these only is it not a ꝓper pece of worke I pray you to chaūg this short pleasure neyther honest nor yet godly for so manye euylles far more greuouse and of muche longer continuance SP. Although there shoulde no pain com of it I esteme hym to bee a very fond occupier which would chaūge precious stones for glasse HE. You meane that would lose the godly pleasures of the mynde for the coloured pleasures of y e body SP. That is my meanyng HE. But nowe let vs come to a more perfecter supputation neither the agewe nor yet pouerty foloweth alwaies carnal pleasure nor the new leprosy or els the palsy waitnot on at altimes the great excessiue vse of lecherye but grudge of cōsiēce euermore is a folower sure companiō of al vnleaful pleasure then the which as it is plainly agreed betwixt vs nothyng is more miserable SPV. Yea rather it grudgeth their cōscience sometyme before hande in the self pleasure it pricketh their mynde yet ther bee some y t you woulde say want this motion and feelyng HE. Thei bee nowe therfore in worse estate cōditiō Who would not rather feele payne then too haue hys body lacke any perfecte sence truly from some ether intemperatnes of euel desires euen like as it were a certayne kynde of drunkenes or els wont and cōmune haunt of vice which ar so hardened in them y t they take a way y e felyng cōsideration of euyl in their youth so that whā agee commeth vpō them beside other infinitie hurtes and perturbations agaynst whose commyng thei should haue layd vp the deedes of their former lyfe as a special iuwel and treasure then thei stande greatly in fear of death a thyng emongist all other most ineuitable that no man canne shonne yea and the more they haue heretofore been dysmayed and lacked their sences the greater now is their vn quietnes and grudge of conscience then truely the mynde is sodenly awaked whether it wol or noo and verely wher as olde agee is alwayes sad and heuy of it selfe for as muche as it is in subiection and bondage vnto many incommodities of nature but then it is farre more wretchede and also fylthye if the mynde vnquiet with it selfe shal trouble it also feastes ryotous banketyng syngyng and daunsynge with manye suche other wanton toyes pastimes which he was communely yeouē vnto thought very plesaūt when he was young bee nowe