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A39573 Baby-baptism meer babism, or, An answer to nobody in five words to every-body who finds himself concern'd in't by Samuel Fisher. Fisher, Samuel, 1605-1665. 1653 (1653) Wing F1055; ESTC R25405 966,848 642

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and imposition of hands in order to their obtaining the spirit of promise some not having faith in the thing whether that baptism with the spirit Peter speaks of Act. 2. 39. and Iohn baptist Mat. 3. 11. doth belong to them or no though there promised to all that are and shall be repenting and believing baptized in water even as many as the Lord shall call whereupon the fourth principle of Christs doctrine will not down with them but when they come to that lesson in Christs A B C they must skip it and take forth and because it likes them not turn ore a new leaf to the doctrine of the supper and Church fellowship before they are prefecty past their primmer to all which confused pro and con congregations and mongrill kind of ministry and people that speak half in the language of Canaan and half of Ashdod I le here say no more but this viz. si eo quo caepistis pede perrexerit is c. proceeding as you begin and thriving to the hight of your principle throw the nations the body of Christendom which was once an uniform and more lately a triforme may in time become that which I judge also it must become for some small season before the end viz. a monstrous multiform and at last an omniform beast indeed But now as to the question whether these two for I must scarce speak of these severally but very succinctly and as it were together are of right and according to the mind and word of Christ to continue to the end in proof hereof viz. that they are I shall refer the Ranter and the rest if any other besides him do deny it but to two Scriptures which prove each of these respectively and remove some few more of such exceptions as are made against the present practise of both these two and the other two parts of Christs outward worship and service I have already spoke to and so put a period to this discourse The first is 1 Cor. 11. 26. for as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup ye shew or shew ye for the word may be read imperatively as well as indicatively the Lords death till he come in which words t is so clearly supposed that the ordinance of the supper is not according to Christs will to cease till the next appearing of Christ that it were to suppose a man to be void of sense and reason to undertake to make it more evident to him by framing any formall argument from the place The Second is Heb. 10. 25. not forsaking the assembling of our selves together as the manner of some is but exhorting one another while it s called to day and so much the more by how much you see the day approaching where it is also most clear and undeniable that t is the mind of Christ that the Saints should keep together in one body in assemblies and fellowships one with another and that his sheep should not live in such a stragling state and conditon such single fellowship between God and themselves onely as is now pleaded for by many that fall off from following or frequenting any societies at all and forsake such truly constituted Churches as they were once added to which argues apparently that as we say of sheep when they keep not with the flock but are found squotting up and down here and there by themselves alone and aloof from their fellows that some ill disease and deadly distemper is growing upon them but that they should keep together in flocks every sheep following the footsteps of the flock which name of flock is that by which Christ often denominates his sheep as Luke 12. 32. Act. 20. 28. 1 Pet. 5. 2. to shew that he expects to find them in flocks and fellowships at his coming Ranterist Till he come is no other then till his coming into men by his spirit or in such full measures and manifestations of his spirit into mens hearts that they may be able to live up with him in spirit so as no more to need such lower helps from outward administrations such carnal ordinances such visible representations of Christ to the bodily eyes such legal rites and meer bodily exercises as baptism and fellowship together in breaking of bread are These things were used indeed and ordained as milk for babes in that meer nonage and infancy of the Church when Christ was known as a child as it were but now we are to know Christ as a man grown in us risen up in us and to have fellowship with him more immediately and intimately in spirit and not in such external and meer fleshly formes we are to live higher then on such low weak empty elements and beggarly rudiments as these which were used and imposed for a time to resemble Christ to us from without but must be left when once Christ the substance that was set forth by those shadows is come into us Christ is now in the Saints the hope of glory Col. 1. 27. So Heb. 6. 1. 2. leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ let us go on to perfection not laying again c. you see we must mind higher matters leaving these which were as a dark glasse or shadowy dispensation through which the Church once did see Christ and knew him after the flesh but now face to face 1 Cor. 13. 12. and henceforth know we him so no more 2 Cor. 5. 16. when I was a child saies Paul I spake as a child and did as a child and thought as a child but when I became a man I put away child●…h things 1 Cor. 13. 11. every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousnesse for he is a babe but strong meat belongeth to them that are full of growth who have their senses exercised to discern between good and evil Heb. 5. 14. that which is perfect is now come and therefore what is imperfect and in part only as ordinances are must be done away and as for gathering of congregations peoples assembling together in the Church bodies to preach pray break bread to build up one anoin the faith search the Scripture c. t was a way of God for mens edification till Christ the morning star shined to which men did well to take heed as unto a light that shined in a dark place but now the day dawnes and the day starre arises in mens hearts yea the day breaks and the shadowes flie away and Christ comes as a swift Roe and young heart upon the mountains of Bether so that now we are to exercise our selves rather unto Godlinesse for all bodily exercises as baptism breaking bread and Church order c. profit little besides t was said there should be a falling away from all those forms of worship and the way of ordinances which was in the primitive times 2 Thess. 2. 3. and a treading down of the holy City and Temple Rev. 11. 1. 2. as to the form
was the way and outward meanes of salvation but not in this respect as it was rained on nullum simile currit Quatuor Fourthly which washings purgings sprinklings of Christs blood and clean water typified of old and foreshadowed by the blood of calves and goats with water and scarlet wool and hysop wherewith Moses and the high priests after him sprinkled the old Israel so that they were typically and ceremonially counted holy and clean thereupon in a fleshly sense onely are all expressions spoken not with such allusion to baptism as Mr. Cook imagines nor are so neer a kin to it as he laies claim to for if they are all to be resembled and respected by us in our baptism as things some way or other signified to us therein yet are they not at all the main or principall things or such as are immediately or primarily but onely remotely and secondarily signified to us therein and so not necessarily to be either all or at all so much resembled as something else But the death burial and resurrection of Christ which is the rise and root the originall and meritorious cause of all the rest being that which though you would shut it out altogether from its interest and right of being represented in baptism of all the rest is mainly and most immediately signified and primarily to be eyed and respected and all the rest but consequently and through that therefore its necessary that this should be resembled most lively that it may take the deeper impression upon us Yea these matters of Christs death burial and resurrection are such cardinall things to be considered as quibus non mediantibus without the mediation of which we cannot conceive clearly nor lay claim to any of the other as ours For as in the supper remotely heaven it self and all spirituall excellencies are signified to us to be ours yet all the things signified cannot be represented to the eye but onely such as are the more immediate significations of it and are the rise and proper cause of all the rest viz. Christ crucified and our feeding on him by faith theseare and are to be lively set forth unto us and resembled before our eyes in bread and wine broken and powred out and received and applied to us but not all the fruits of his death and our faith even so it is likewise in baptism and indeed the main signification in both is Christs person crucified dead buried and raised and that is to be resembled in both and other things viz. the benefits of his death as remission of sins and purging c. to be consequentially gathered from that neither can nor are nor need all those to be resembled But as for Mr. Co●…k he pleads stifly to have all these resembled viz. washing purging powring sprinkling of the spirit and blood of Christ but excludes the main thing altogether viz. Christs death and resurrection which are the very rise and ground of all those And yet if he will needs have all those to be resembled are they not as much and much more resembled by dipping and plunging a person in water then by powring and sprinkling a little water upon him and is not swilling under water a more effectuall way of washing and clensing then sprinkling which though it be a Diminutive way of wetting yet in truth is no way of washing at all If therefore he will have washing and such a washing as well deserves the name of clensing to be resembled in baptism can he have even that done in a better way then by dipping or dousing for verily plunging is a washing and a more eminent way of washing and purifying and so more lively resembling ablutione●… peccatorum the purging away our sinnes by the blood of Christ then aspersion or bare infusion either of which without some after rubbing is a way of washing and clensing seldome used by men or women unlesse it be among slatternes that are minded to leave things as foul well nigh as they find them and I am sure there 's no rubbing succedaneous to your sprinkling which is any ingredient to your dispensation for what the priest drops on the midwife rubs indeed not on but off and so as that is no washing so if it were I hope you do not allow the midwife to give equal influence with the priest unto the dispensation of baptism Besides both sprinkling and powring are vertualy implied in plunging and burying in water but these are not at all supposed in the other every lesser wetting being contained and included in the greater not so the greater in the lesse Fiftly which quirk of his concerning a necessity of abiding 3. daies under water answerable to Christs 3 daies buriall if we will needs urge an necessity of resembling him in his death burial and resurrection is so fond that a fool may find enough wherewith to refel it for Mr. Cook knows that nullum simile currit quatuor no similitude answers in all things besides t is the truth and substance of the thing not the circumstance or quantity of time of abode which is to be respected here for a burial is as true a burial when a person abides but 3. minutes wholly under the element wherein he is buried as if he abode 3. daies and a burial is as truly represented by being once under water as if one continued under altogether and the resurrection a little better by being brought up again alive then if one lay till he were altogether dead Sixthly and lastly which assertion of his uttered in favour of his assertion viz. that the Scripture no where requires the washing of the whole body is so much the more favouring of either ignorance or forgetfulnesse in him or both by how much one of the very Scriptures that are quoted by himself as speaking in reference to baptism doth require it for its said Heb. 10. 22. let us draw neer with a true heart c. and having our bodies washed with pure water which clause if meant of baptism as undoubtedly it is requires not a sprinkling but a washing and that 's more then your sprinkling is and this too not of the face only which is the only part you sprinkle but of our bodies which word whether we shall take properly to signifie the whole body indeed or run to figurative acceptations when we need not and take the body by a Synechdoche of the whole for a part to signifie so small a part as the face only I need not wish a wise man to determine for every unprejudiced man that hath but common sense will see cause enough to take it plainly as it lies Rantist But all this while me thinks you make it appear so plainly as you not must before I believe or receive it that it is so needful as you would make it that there should be a resemblance of the thing signified in that sign of baptism at all that 's the thing I wait to see proved for let Mr. Cook make what
few crumbs of bread and sips of wine taken do reptesent a taking of Christ in the Supper but not so a few drops of water tisfled upon the face Christs death buriall and resurrection and sith you say the refreshment of the soul by the fullnesse is represented in our eating and drinking in the Supper and yet that eating and drinking a little bread and wine not to fulness is enough in the supper to represent that and so why not a little water not deep enough to dip and bury in applyed to us in baptism the burial and resurrection of Christ I might answer that the refreshment of the soul by Christ is represented rather in the elements then in the action of either eating or drinking in the supper by the bread which is a strengthner of mans heart and wine which is for them of a sorrowful heart and therefore there might not be altogether the need of representing our r●…freshing by eating and drinking much at least so much as Mr. Cook and Mr. Ba. talkes of viz. to the filling and glutting of our selves to the top as long as head and stomack will hold that action would yield but a small resemblance of a refreshment and were enough to make a sound man sick but there is a reason in all things and a difference as we say between staring and stark mad●… thus I say I might answer and cut off your arguing for analogy and a small portion of the element in baptism as well as in the supper between which there is not fully the same reason But verily I am of your mind that a refreshment of the soul by the fulnesse of Christ is very fit to be resembled and represented by the quantity of the elements as well as by the elements in the supper also and yet am I not of your mind that so little as you ordinarily use is so very fit as you dream it is to represent it but of the mind rather that as you are in your baptism viz. not out of your element as you should be if you were baptized in truth by submersion or putting clear under water but out in your element rather i. e. in the measure of your water which is not adaequate to the true manner of washing so you are also in the supper too poor in your provision of elements for that which is the true and full purport of that sacred service you have got together many littles to prove that so little element as you use both in baptism and supper may do as well if not better then more all which are very little to the purpose a little may signifie as well as much saies Mr. Baxter a clod of earth a pepper corn but what then we are to signifie with resemblance or else a sacrament is no sacrament saith Austin but saies Mr. Cook a little may resemble the washing and the refreshing of the soul may well be resembled by a sprinkling of a little water eating and drinking a little bread and wine in circumcision a little skinne was cut off what then First it was as much as God required to be cut off Secondly it was so much as made it circumcision Thirdly as much as truly and clearly resembled the circumcision of the heart which is signified but such is not for all Mr. Cooks conceit that little water you sprinkle nor yet that little becad and wine you distribute it is neither so much as represents clearly the things signified which are not onely the clearing of the soul by Christs dainties in the supper which should be resembled by eating and drinking it but some more chearing and refreshing of the body then that which is commonly in your communions But alas the burial and resurrection of Christ in baptism should be resembled by submersion and emersion and therefore to answer Mr. Cook in the words of Mr. Cook the outward elements of water bread and wine are for spirritual use and to signifie spiritual things so that if there be the truth of things but what I wonder if there be not as I am sure in Rantism there is not the truth of baptism the quantity is not to be respected further then is sufficient for its end namely to represent the spiritual grace so far then it seemes it must be and that is enough to confute Mr. Cooks Rantism for it represents not the spiritual grace and that it be neither so little as not clearly to represent it yet so little is the quantity that you use not of water onely in the one but of bread and wine also in the other ordinarily nor so much as to take off the heart from the spiritual to the corporal thing content with all in my heart that it be not too much on this hand provided that it be not too litle one the other so but that it may reach to resemble the things signified for the whole vertue of baptism lying in signification per ablutionem i.e. per submersionem per sepelitionem in aquâ and the vertue of the supper much what in signification per recreationem per representationem plenitudinis non multum interest quantum quisque abluatur modo obruatur submergatur sepeliatur nec quantum quisque comedat modo comedendo repleatur To conclude Sirs you are too short in that point of the outward element in the supper as well as baptilm in the Church of Corinth there was so much bread and wine that if some hungred others were drunken as neither of these should have been so the latter could not have been but that the use then was to have more abundance of the elements then you have in your parish passeovers wherein the people are past over with so poor a pittance that all may in likelihood be hungry enough but none at all very easily drunken such niggardly ships and sups not at Rome onely where the Priests expounding Christ as speaking to themselves when of the wine saying drink ye all this and not to the people saying drink ye all of this do impropriate the liquor wholly to themselves but in England also do the priests supp I should say dine for it is done at noon dayes with them their poor patient dependant people at the Lords table There 's one thing among Mr. Baxters bedrow which I had almost quite past over without any answer which if I had you would have said it is like I willingly forgat it Christ told Peter saith he that the washing of his foet was enough to clense all Mr. Blake gives us a touch here too through the persons of a popish party p. 10. of Peters mind saith he not to be washed in o●… part onely which say some from the same place also viz. Iohn 13. 9. 10. is as sufficient as the washof the whole As if that Scripture even therefore because it speaks of washing doth speak of this ordinance of baptism either it doth Sirs in your opinion or it doth not if not to what purpose do
it utterly overthrowes his hopes by the halves of infants for it is both a good ground and as good a ground whereon to hope the redemption from wrath to come of every dying infant as of any one And lastly to conclude my answer to this 22 Argument of Mr. B. which I have insisted the longer on in much hope of helping him to a better hope of all dying infants that neither are nor are to be added to the visible church whereas I was once set upon by a Gentleman with this objection who if ever this book came to his hands and this passage to his eye will remember it though I forbear to name him Viz. Ob●… If we may be assured of the salvation of all our dying infants we may then in love to them knock them on the head in their infancy and so be sure to prevent their per●…shing by condemnation I intreat that Gentleman to beware o●… so much as saying that we may do such gross ●…vil that so great good may come thereof least his damnation for it be just and then what little benefit will accrue to him all men may judge that to save his infant damnes himself There 's but four Arguments of M. Bs. behind brought in proof of the right of membership to infants whereof two viz. his ●…4th and 26th are the one from 1 Cor. 7. 14. the other from Mark 10. 13. 14. 15. Two Scriptures that I have talkt on so much in the book above and given the genuine sense of that I shall but tautologize to speak particularly to them again seeing I see nothing new taken notice of in them by Mr B. but what is abundantly answered in effect above where I have shewed the abr●…gation in Christ of that birth holinesse he means and the uncleannesse consequently opposite thereunto so that there 's no man however born though a barbarian can be called in opposition to others as by birth holy by nature a sinner in that ceremonial sense from Act 10. Gal. 2. yea M. B. confesses p. 8●… the Commo●… s●…se of holinesse was one and the same in all i. e. Priests and Levites under the Law c. Temple Altar Sacrifices children of believers and believing yoak fellowes viz. a separation to God so then if that holinesse of Priests Temple c. was ceremonial so this is and if that holinesse is abolished in all other things why abiding onely the seed I have also proved that the other place where it is not evident that the infants brought to Christ were ever baptized by his dis●…iples or any other doth more deeply disprove infan●…s-baptism and membership then all the places ever brought by Mr. B. are capable to prove or make good ei●…her Yea as good a man might have said as send me to those two places for infant-baptism you may find it if you l●…ok in the bible I le say no more therefore to them His other two viz. the 23th and 25●…h are both as he con●…esses but probable and and by and by will appear not to be so much His fi●…st is this If an Infant were head of the Church then infants may be members But Christ an infant was head of the Church Ergo. That cannot be half so much as a probable Argument whose premises are neither of them true yet such is the syllogism here brought by Mr. B. both the propositions of which I deny his consequence is true indeed that infants may be members if an infant were the head i. e. are capable o●…t supposing Gods will that it should be so now in the Gospel which a man may suppose if he will but shall never find to be so in his word nor does his curious crotchet out of Irenaeus that Christ went through every age to sanc●…ify it unto us prove the other to be a truth for there 's no truth at all in it self yea t is falsum pe●… falsius for Christ did not passe through every age of man that he might sanct●…fy that age for he lived not to any old age here though now he that was dead is alive again for evermore for his life was soon cut off from the earth And as concerning his headship in his infancy I admire a man of wisedome should assert it for to say nothing how little this agrees with that above page 62. where he saies ●…is disputable whether ever Christ was a Churchmember properly or no as if the head because the principal that rules the rest were no member at all of the body t is evident to me that as man be had not any of his Preroga●…ives settled actually upon him till after he had purchased them by his death he was perfect first through sufferings Heb. 5. 9. and after his death and resurrection he was made Lord and Christ Acts. 2. And exalted highly above all Phil. 2. and set fa●… above all principality and given to be head over all things to his Church which is his body Ephe. 1. ult Moreover to me there is as much force in it if Christ had been head of the Church in his infancy and much more then in Mr. B●… to argue thus if Christ the head of the Church that was circumcised in his infancy yet was not baptized till he came to years then though under the Law the circumcised were circumcised in thei●… infancy yet under the Gospel none are to be baptized till they come to years His 25th runs thus If the Scripture frequently and plainly tell us of the ceasing of circumeision but never at all of the Churchmembership of infants then though circumcision be ceased yet we are not to judge their membership to be ceased but c. Therefore This is so far from a demonstration that it s not a Topical but Sophistical Syllog●… in which there is fallacia homonomiae or ambiguity in the middle term viz. t●…e Scrip●…ure tells us which may be taken for an expresse or for an implicit telling or having a word for a thing yet one of his propositions will be false let him understand it how he will for if by the Scripture telling us and having a word for it he means an expresse telling of the cessation of membership in totidem verbis a Syllabical word given out of that particular by name then his consequence is false for it follows not because there is not an expresse particular prohibition in the New Testament for the cessation of things that were under the old therefore they are not ceased for so we shall make most of the types and ceremonies among which infant membership was one as I have shewed to remain in force still as well as that as the dedication of the first born and many others the cessation of which is not so syllabically spoken of But if he mean an implicit prohibition or word for the cessation of Churchmembersh●…p of infants which is enough then there is prohibition enough yea the very command for the cessation of circumcision of infants any more Act.
Iohn 14. 26. yea so he was come to his disciples and the Churches even unto Paul himself and that very Church of Corinth whom he praises for keeping some ordinances he delivered to them and charges to keep that of breaking of bread till Christ come long before he gave this charge and that in such a high degree that they had even all the gifts and manifestations of the spirit among them that might be 1 Cor. c. 12. c. 13. c. 14. so that they had abundance of Prophets and spiritual men among them 1 Cor. 14. 37. that were higher in the spirit or if they were not Paul that was once in the third heaven was then the spiritual men of this age yea they were a people in every thing inriched with all utterance and all knowledge and the testimony of Christ was so confirmed in them by the coming of the spirit that they came behind in no gift 1 Cor. 1. 5. 6. 7. 8. yet were they to wait in the dispensation and use of ordinances wherein they were for another coming of the Lord Jesus in which way Pauls hope was that Christ would confirm them to the end that they might be blamelesse as else it seemes they could not be in the day i. e. the great and notable day of the second personal coming of the Lord Jesus Thou talkest to us alluding to Heb. 9. 10. where the ordinances of the divine service of the law or old testament are so stiled of the ordinances of the Gospel under the name of carnall ordinances meer fleshly formes but know oh vain man that the outward rites or ceremonies of the Law are there called carnall on such an account as the ordinances of the Gospel cannot be so stiled viz. not at all because they were services performed by the outward man but because the performance of them served and sanctified no further then to the purifying of the flesh v. 13. viz. to the purging of the practisers thereof i. e. the Jews from such outward fleshly impurities as were contracted in the time of the Law by such things and actions as did denominate persons unclean for the time then being but neither do nor can so denominate them now that law with all the ordinances of it being abolished Thou callest Christs ordinances being not a little deluded by some expressions of Mr. Saltmarsh who speaks of them in his books as matters pertaining only to Iohns ministry whom together with his baptism and all that was done ad extra in the primitive time he puts upon the account of the law as pertaining to it rather then purely upon the account of the Gospel but know fond man that as Iohn was a minister of the Gospel of Christ and not of the law and his ministration of preaching and water baptism the very beginning of the Gospel of Christ as I have shewed above Mark 1. 1. 4. so if he and his ministration of bap tism had related simply to the law as they did not yet that of laying on of hands and Church-fellowship in breaking bread were all given in charge by the new law-giver Christ Jesus and that of water baptism too for as if he had foreseen that some should delude themselves and others so as to say it ended at his death even that also was given a new after his death as his expresse commmand concerning all people to the worlds end Thou speakest of living higher then on such low weak empty elements and beggerly rudiments but to say nothing of thy abominable impudency and the desperate despite herein done by thee to the son of God whom thou treadest under foot whilst thou despisest his day of small things and settest light by the least of his commands and hurlst at thy heels the least jota of his law and testament or art ashamed of his words to let passe that I say we give thee to understand that we live not on these ordinances we use but only on our Lord Christ in them whose foolish weak things and earthen vessels they are by which he hands heavenly treasure to believing souls Thou tellest us that the use of outward ordinances was milk for babes in that infancy or nonage of ●…ue Church which is no more then what we say our selves of some ordinances at least viz. baptism and imposition of hands which with the rest of the word of the beginning of Christs doctrine are so stiled Heb. 5. 12. 13. 6. 1. 2. But what of this is it not very fit therefore that they should still be used the Church being yet under age unlesse thou wilt run necessarily upon the utterance of one of the●…e two absurdities viz. that babes are not to be fed with milk now as heretofore but are more fitly fed with stronger meat or else which is as gross that there are no new born babes now in the Church as before at all but that every beginner in Christ is now a strong man a perfect man in Christ so soon as ever spiritually born Thou tellest us that to use ordinances is to know Christ after the flesh who from thenceforth was to be known so no more but herein oh spiritual man thou bewrayest thy own fleshly carnall and most crude conception of that place whereby the words of Paul though we have known Christ after the flesh he means not a knowing of him in the use of ordinances for then when he saies henceforth know we no man after the flesh it must have the same sense too and would suppose that till that time the Saints had known men in the use of ordinances besides that the Church at Corinth knew Christ in the use of ordinances long after this is eminently evident in the Epistle of Clement the Pastor and the Churchat Rome written to the Corinthians upon occasion of their disorder in church affairs some 30 years after Paul wrote this but he means that they from thenceforth that Christ died did take cognizance of no man as ere the better upon the account of a meer fleshly descent or birth of any mens bodies no not of Abrahams as they had before nor count men in Christ and Christians at such a rate as they were counted to God as his under the Law but onely as new born spiritually born from above as new creatures as believing according to Iohn 1. 12. 13. and Gal. 3. 26. 29. if Christs by faith then Abrahams seed and heirs c. Thou tellest us that ordinances are as it were a dark glasse through which we are to behold Christ till we come to see him face to face a certain shadowy dispensation till the substance it self comes childish things that must be put away when once we become men things imperfect and in part onely which when that which is perfect is come must vanish and be done away and such like and all this as t is nor more nor lesse then we say our selves so t is even as much as we need desire thee to