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A39566 Christianismus redivivus Christndom both un-christ'ned and new-christ'ned, or, that good old way of dipping and in-churching of men and women after faith and repentance professed, commonly (but not properly) called Anabaptism, vindicated ... : in five or six several systems containing a general answer ... : not onely a publick disputation for infant baptism managed by many ministers before thousands of people against this author ... : but also Mr. Baxters Scripture proofs are proved Scriptureless ... / by Samuel Fisher ... Fisher, Samuel, 1605-1665.; Baxter, Richard, 1615-1691. 1655 (1655) Wing F1049; ESTC R40901 968,208 646

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it their duty as if the plain word of Christ in this point of baptism were such a nose of wax as might be moulded and metamorphosed into any model according to every mans mind and temper or quite canceld disanuld melted into no word of Christ at all at every mans haughty humour that is loath to debase himself so far as to submission to it as if my Lord and my Lady and Sir such a one had more dispensation from Christ then every ordinary body to shew for their non-obedience to that dispised dispensation some of them that are baptized under prayer and imposition of hands in order to their obtaining the spirit of promise some not having faith in the thing whether that baptism with the spirit Peter speaks of Act. 2.39 and Iohn baptist Mat. 3.11 doth belong to them or no though there promised to all that are and shall be repenting and believing baptized in water even as many as the Lord shall call whereupon the fourth principle of Christs doctrine will not down with them but when they come to that lesson in Christs ABC they must skip it and take forth and because it likes them not turn ore a new leaf to the doctrine of the supper and Church fellowship before they are prefecty past their primmer to all which confused pro and con congregations and mongrill kind of ministry and people that speak half in the language of Canaan and half of Ashdod I le here say no more but this viz. si eo quo caepistis pede perrexeritis c. proceeding as you begin and thriving to the hight of your principle throw the nations the body of Christendom which was once an uniform and more lately a triforme may in time become that which I judge also it must become for some small season before the end viz. a monstrous multiform and at last an omniform beast indeed But now as to the question whether these two for I must scarce speak of these severally but very succinctly and as it were together are of right and according to the mind and word of Christ to continue to the end in proof hereof viz. that they are I shall refer the Ranter and the rest if any other besides him do deny it but to two Scriptures which prove each of these respectively and remove some few more of such exceptions as are made against the present practise of both these two and the other two parts of Christs outward worship and service I have already spoke to and so put a period to this discourse The first is 1 Cor. 11.26 for as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup ye shew or shew ye for the word may be read imperatively as well as indicatively the Lords death till he come in which words t is so clearly supposed that the ordinance of the supper is not according to Christs will to cease till the next appearing of Christ that it were to suppose a man to be void of sense and reason to undertake to make it more evident to him by framing any formall argument from the place The Second is Heb. 10.25 not forsaking the assembling of our selves together as the manner of some is but exhorting one another while it s called to day and so much the more by how much you see the day approaching where it is also most clear and undeniable that t is the mind of Christ that the Saints should keep together in one body in assemblies and fellowships one with another and that his sheep should not live in such a stragling state and condition such single fellowship between God and themselves onely as is now pleaded for by many that fall off from following or frequenting any societies at all and forsake such truly constituted Churches as they were once added to which argues apparently that as we say of sheep when they keep not with the flock but are found squotting up and down here and there by themselves alone and aloof from their fellows that some ill disease and deadly distemper is growing upon them but that they should keep together in flocks every sheep following the footsteps of the flock which name of flock is that by which Christ often denominates his sheep as Luke 12.32 Act. 20.28 1 Pet. 5.2 to shew that he expects to find them in flocks and fellowships at his coming Ranterist Till he come is no other then till his coming into men by his spirit or in such full measures and manifestations of his spirit into mens hearts that they may be able to live up with him in spirit so as no more to need such lower helps from outward administrations such carnal ordinances such visible representations of Christ to the bodily eyes such legal rites and meer bodily exercises as baptism and fellowship together in breaking of bread are These things were used indeed and ordained as milk for babes in that meer nonage and infancy of the Church when Christ was known as a child as it were but now we are to know Christ as a man grown in us risen up in us aad to have fellowship with him more immediately and intimately in spirit and not in such external and meer fleshly formes we are to live higher then on such low weak empty elements and beggarly rudiments as these which were used and imposed for a time to resemble Christ to us from without but must be left when once Christ the substance that was set forth by those shadows is come into us Christ is now in the Saints the hope of glory Col. 1.27 So Heb. 6.1.2 leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ let us go on to perfection not laying again c. you see we must mind higher matters leaving these which were as a dark glasse or shadowy dispensation through which the Church once did see Christ and knew him after the flesh but now face to face 1 Cor. 13.12 and henceforth know we him so no more 2 Cor. 5.16 when I was a child saies Paul I spake as a child and did as a child and thought as a child but when I became a man I put away childish things 1 Cor. 13.11 every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousnesse for he is a babe but strong meat belongeth to them that are full of growth who have their senses exercised to discern between good and evil Heb. 5.14 that which is perfect is now come and therefore what is imperfect and in part only as ordinances are must be done away and as for gathering of congregations peoples assembling together in the Church bodies to preach pray break bread to build up one ano in the faith search the Scripture c. t was a way of God for mens edification till Christ the morning star shined to which men did well to take heed as unto a light that shined in a dark place but now the day dawnes and the day starre arises in mens hearts yea the day breaks and
raining on them in the daies of Noah serve to resemble our death and burial then dipping does yet in truth resembles a death burial and resurrection little more then a knock o' th' pate Secondly which drowning of the old world as it would make not a jot for such a purpose as he pleads for had it been by such a way as he dreames it was by viz. sprinkling raining on them by infu●ion and not immersion yet in very deed and so hee l see when he is awake and his eyes are open was by immersion immediately and not infusion for it might have rained long enough upon the earth before the men that had houses to shelter themselves in from that would have bin killed and buried under water if the waters had not prevailed by a flood so high over the earth as to overwhelm the men under it and plunge them ore head and ears and if he call that sprinkling and infusion let him sprinkle or infuse water in such abundance till the water sprinkled or infused become of such depth about the parties he is about to sprinkle as to swell ore their heads and to swill them wholly under it and I shall own such infusion for right baptism yet none of Christs ordinance neither unlesse dispenst to a right subject i. e. babes or beginners in the faith Thirdly which elegant allusion of his to the ark as that on which water was onely powred or sprinkled whence he seemes to argue thus viz. that it rained onely on the Ark or water was onely powred or sprinkled upon the Ark which Ark was a type of baptism Ergo baptism must be dispenst by sprinkling is as simple a delusion as ever was devised for if he intend that for an argument to prove that baptism is to be done by sprinkling and if not what does it there it does rather conclude that baptism must be sprinkled as the Ark was for reduce his matter into the form of a syllogism and see how sillily it concludes viz. thus The Ark was a Type of baptism But the Ark was only sprinkled with the rain not dipt Ergo baptism its antitype is to be dispenst by sprinkling He concludes more ●hen he can possibly squeeze out from those premises and another thing then what is asserted of the Ark in his minor whereas in right form it should run thus The Ark typified baptism But the Ark was rained on baptized or wetted by infusion onely Ergo baptism must be rained on baptized or wetted by infusion onely But then what simple stuff were this what a logical lump of artificial non-sense Besides if it would follow that because the Ark which was a type of baptism was sprinkled therefore the way of baptism is sprinkling it would more truly follow that because the Ark was half dipt and half sprinkled one part of it being under the water another sprinkled with rain aboue the water therefore the way of baptism is to dip one half of the person and to sprinkle the other half but alas the Ark was a type of baptism as t was the way and outward meanes of salvation but not in this respect as it was rained on nullum simile currit Quatuor Fourthly which washings purgings sprinklings of Christs blood and clean water typified of old and foreshadowed by the blood of calves and goats with water and scarlet wool and hysop wherewith Moses and the high priests after him sprinkled the old Israel so that they were typically and ceremonially counted holy and clean thereupon in a fleshly sense onely are all expressions spoken not with such allusion to baptism as Mr. Cook imagines nor are so neer a kin to it as he laies claim to for if they are all to be resembled and respected by us in our baptism as things some way or other signified to us therein yet are they not at all the main or principall things or such as are immediately or primarily but onely remotely and secondarily signified to us therein and so not necessarily to be either all or at all so much resembled as something else But the death burial and resurrection of Christ which is the rise and root the originall and meritorious cause of all the rest being that which though you would shut it out altogether from its interest and right of being represented in baptism of all the rest is mainly and most immediately signified and primarily to be eyed and respected and all the rest but consequently and through that therefore its necessary that this should be resembled most lively that it may take the deeper impression upon us Yea these matters of Christs death burial and resurrection are such cardinall things to be considered as quibus non mediantibus without the mediation of which we cannot conceive clearly nor lay claim to any of the other as ours For as in the supper remotely heaven it self and all spirituall excellencies are signified to us to be ours yet all the things signified cannot be represented to the eye but onely such as are the more immediate significations of it and are the rise and proper cause of all the rest viz. Christ crucified and our feeding on him by faith the seare and are to be lively set forth unto us and resembled before our eyes in bread and wine broken and powred out and received and applied to us but not all the fruits of his dea●h and our faith even so it is likewise in baptism and indeed the main signification in both is Christs person crucified dead buried and raised and that is to be resembled in both and other things viz. the benefits of his death as remission of sins and purging c. to be consequentially gathered from that neither can nor are nor need all those to be resembled But as for Mr. Cook he pleads stifly to have all these resembled viz. washing purging powring sprinkling of the spirit and blood of Christ but excludes the main thing altogether viz. Christs death and resurrection which are the very rise and ground of all those And yet if he will needs have all those to be resembled are they not as much and much more resembled by dipping and plunging a person in water then by powring and sprinkling a little water upon him and is not swilling under water a more effectuall way of washing and clensing then sprinkling which though it be a Diminutive way of wetting yet in truth is no way of washing at all If therefore he will have washing and such a washing as well deserves the name of clensing to be resembled in baptism can he have even that done in a better way then by dipping or dousing for verily plunging is a washing and a more eminent way of washing and purifying and so more lively resembling ablutionem peccatorum the purging away our sinnes by the blood of Christ then aspersion or bare infusion either of which without some after rubbing is a way of washing and clensing seldome used by men or women unlesse it be
full Thirdly That a little may serve as well as much there 's little weight as far as I see in any part of it The first hath so little reason that it hath no truth in it for Christ hath appointed vertually in some measure the measure of water in that his very appointment of the manner of washing in the way of a totall overwhelming as appears before in the ●ignification of the word Baptize which signifies a dipping or overwhelming of that subject that is particularly denominated to be washed by it whether it be the whole man or but a part of him if the tip of the finger only be said truly to be baptized then that tip must be totally washed if the hands be denominated without a figure to be baptized then the hands at least are totally washed if the man be the subject properly predicated to be baptized then that man also must be totally washed but in Scripture the man is required and appointed to be baptized to the performance of which such a measure of water is consequently appointed as may be at least sufficient for that end and required it is that it be neither so little that it cannot totally wash him nor yet so much as must necessarily drowne him as an ocean would but a proportion suitable to that purpose To the second I might answer that there is not altogether the same reason for such a totall filling and swilling in the Supper as there is for a totall swilling in baptism sith the main and radical matter that is to be resembled in baptism is Christs death burial and resurrection but the radical thing that is resembled in that action of our eating and drinking in the Supper is our faith whereby we feed upon Christ and accept him each to our selves as our Redeemer without which that he is a Redeemer will do us no good for faith is the appropriating of of Christ the bread of life each to our selves who is set before us in common in the whole loaf and as it will do a man no good to have bread and wine before him which are elements most refreshing unless he take them and eat and drink so neither us to see a Saviour set before us unlesse we take of his salvation to our selves This is that which is most immediately signifyed and particularly represented in the Supper which businesse of bare taking Christ Jesus to our selves by faith is represented truly in taking never so little but a burial and resurrection not in never so little water a few crumbs of bread and sips of wine taken do rep●esent a taking of Christ in the Supper but not so a few drops of water tiffled upon the face Christs death buriall and resurrection and fith you say the refreshment of the soul by the fullnesse is represented in our eating and drinking in the Supper and yet that eating and drinking a little bread and wine not to fulness is enough in the supper to represent that and so why not a little water not deep enough to dip and bury in applyed to us in baptism the burial and resurrection of Christ I might answer that the refreshment of the soul by Christ is represented rather in the elements then in the action of either eating or drinking in the supper by the bread which is a strengthner of mans heart and wine which is for them of a sorrowful heart and therefore there might not be altogether the need of representing our refreshing by eating and drinking much at least so much as Mr. Cook and Mr. Ba. talkes of viz. to the filling and glutting of our selves to the top as long as head and stomack will hold that action would yield but a small resemblance of a refreshment and were enough to make a sound man sick but there is a reason in all things and a difference as we say between staring and stark mad thus I say I might answer and cut off your arguing for analogy and a small portion of the element in baptism as well as in the supper between which there is not fully the same reason But verily I am of your mind that a refreshment of the soul by the fulnesse of Christ is very fit to be resembled and represented by the quantity of the elements as well as by the elements in the supper also and yet am I not of your mind that so little as you ordinarily use is so very fit as you dream it is to represent it but of the mind rather that as you are in your baptism viz. not out of your element as you should be if you were baptized in truth by submersion or putting clear under water but out in your element rather i. e. in the measure of your water which is not adaequate to the true manner of washing so you are also in the supper too poor in your provision of elements for that which is the true and full purport of that sacred service you have got together many littles to prove that so little element as you use both in baptism and supper may do as well if not better then more all which are very little to the purpose a little may signifie as well as much saies Mr. Baxter a clod of earth a pepper corn but what then we are to signifie with resemblance or else a sacrament is no sacrament saith Austin but saies Mr. Cook a little may resemble the washing and the refreshing of the soul may well be resembled by a sprinkling of a little water eating and drinking a little bread and wine in circumcision a little skinne was cut off what then First it was as much as God required to be cut off Secondly it was so much as made it circumcision Thirdly as much as truly and clearly resembled the circumcision of the heart which is signified but such is not for all Mr. Cooks conceit that little water you sprinkle nor yet that little becad and wine you distribute it is neither so much as represents clearly the things signified which are not onely the clearing of the soul by Christs dainties in the supper which should be resembled by eating and drinking it but some more chearing and refreshing of the body then that which is commonly in your communions But alas the burial and resurrection of Christ in baptism should be resembled by submersion and emersion and therefore to answer Mr. Cook in the words of Mr. Cook the outward elements of water bread and wine are for spirritual use and to signifie spiritual things so that if there be the truth of things but what I wonder if there be not as I am sure in Rantism there is not the truth of baptism the quantity is not to be respected further then is sufficient for its end namely to represent the spiritual grace so far then it seemes it must be and that is enough to confute Mr. Cooks Rantism for it represents not the spiritual grace and that it be neither so little as not clearly to
Jacobs Lord was said before they were born by God who foreseeing it might easily foretell how it should be and did so too but for the words Iacob have I loved Esau have I hated as they also were spoken of the two Nations that came out of their loines viz. the Edomites and Israelites and that not without respect to Edoms being the border of wickednesse ●o far was it from being spoken of them before they were born that t was hundreds of years after they were dead and rotten Mal. 1. But if it were just as Mr. B. understands it that before they were born and without any respect to their personal rebellion and obedience in time it had been said Iacob have I loved Esau have I hated would it prove that article in Mr. Bs. creed that God hath promised to be merciful to Godly mens seed in general in contradistinction to the seed of the wicked in no wise I suppose since as godly as Isaac was even one of his Sons was hated from the womb if Mr. B. conceit were true aswel as the other of them from the womb beloved but surely had not Esau sinned and set so light by the heavenly blessing he had not lost it much less if he had dyed from the womb Fourthly as for the universallity of redemption which is by Jesus Christs dying as Mr. Ba. saies t●uely for all for every man for the sins of the whole world which he had meant to have drawn an Argument from but did not he might easily have drawn one that would have served my turn in this place viz. to have proved that very age even the whole species of infants to be savd by Christ from wrath and ruine except they live to reject his grace afresh as in infancy they do not but it utterly overthrowes his hopes by the halves of infants for it is both a good ground and as good a ground whereon to hope the redemption from wrath to come of every dying infant as of any one And lastly to conclude my answer to this 22 Argument of Mr. B. which I have insisted the longer on in much hope of helping him to a better hope of all dying infants that neither are nor are to be added to the visible church whereas I was once set upon by a Gentleman with this objection who if ever this book came to his hands and this passage to his eye will remember it though I forbear to name him Viz. Obj. If we may be assured of the salvation of all our dying infants we may then in love to them knock them on the head in their infancy and so be sure to prevent their perishing by condemnation I intreat that Gentleman to beware of so much as saying that we may do such gross evil that so great good may come thereof least his damnation for it be just and then what little benefit will accrue to him all men may judge that to save his infant damnes himself There 's but four Arguments of M.Bs. behind brought in proof of the right of membership to infants whereof two viz. his 24th and 26th are the one from 1 Cor. 7.14 the other from Mark 10.13.14.15 Two Scriptures that I have talkt on so much in the book above and given the genuine sense of that I shall but tautologize to speak particularly to them again seeing I see nothing new taken notice of in them by Mr B. but what is abundantly answered in effect above where I have shewed the abrogation in Christ of that birth holinesse he means and the uncleannesse consequently opposite thereunto so that there 's no man however born though a barbarian can be called in opposition to others as by birth holy by nature a sinner in that ceremonial sense from Act 10. Gal. 2. yea M.B. confesses p. 81. the Common sense of holinesse was one and the same in all i. e. Priests and Levites under the Law c. Temple Altar Sacrifices children of believers and believing yoak fellowes viz. a separation to God so then if that holinesse of Priests Temple c. was ceremonial so this is and if that holinesse is abolished in all other things why abiding onely the seed I have also proved that the other place where it is not evident that the infants brought to Christ were ever baptized by his disciples or any other doth more deeply disprove infan●s-baptism and membership then all the places ever brought by Mr. B. are capable to prove or make good either Yea as good a man might have said as send me to those two places for infant-baptism you may find it if you look in the bible I le say no more therefore to them His other two viz. the 23th and 25 hare both as he confesses but probable and and by and by will appear not to be so much His first is this If an Infant were head of the Church then infants may be members But Christ an infant was head of the Church Ergo. That cannot be half so much as a probable Argument whose premises are neither of them true yet such is the syllogism here brought by Mr. B. both the propositions of which I deny his consequence is true indeed that infants may be members if an infant were the head i. e are capable out supposing Gods will that it should be so now in the Gospel which a man may suppose if he will but shall never find to be so in his word nor does his curious crotchet out of Irenaeus that Christ went through every age to sanctify it unto us prove the other to be a truth for there 's no truth at all in it self yea t is falsum per falsius for Christ did not passe through every age of man that he might sanctify that age for he lived not to any old age here though now he that was dead is alive again for evermore for his life was soon cut off from the earth And as concerning his headship in his infancy I admire a man of wisedome should assert it for to say nothing how little this agrees with that above page 62. where he saies t is disputable whether ever Christ was a Churchmember properly or no as if the head because the principal that rules the rest were no member at all of the body t is evident to me that as man he had not any of his Prerogatives settled actually upon him till after he had purchased them by his death he was perfect first through sufferings Heb. 5.9 and after his death and resurrection he was made Lord and Christ Acts. 2. And exalted highly above all Phil. 2. and set far above all principality and given to be head over all things to his Church which is his body Ephe. 1. ult Moreover to me there is as much force in it if Christ had been head of the Church in his infancy and much more then in Mr. Bs. to argue thus if Christ the head of the Church that was circumcised in his infancy yet was not
14.15 16. one office also among the rest of which spirit when he should come so far was he by his coming from disingaging men from obedience to any one thing that Christ spake while he was on earth was because many would be very subject to to forget and be willingly ignorant of Christs lawes to teach all things and bring all things to their remembrance whatsoever Christ said unto his disciples while he was with them Iohn 14.26 yea so he was come to his disciples and the Churches even unto Paul himself and that very Church of Corinth whom he praises for keeping some ordinances he delivered to them and charges to keep that of breaking of bread till Christ come long before he gave this charge and that in such a high degree that they had even all the gifts and manifestations of the spirit among them that might be 1 Cor. c. 12. c. 13. c. 14. so that they had abundance of Prophets and spiritual men among them 1 Cor. 14.37 that were higher in the spirit or if they were not Paul that was once in the third heaven was then the spiritual men of this age yea they were a people in every thing inriched with all utterance and all knowledge and the testimony of Christ was so confirmed in them by the coming of the spirit that they came behind in no gift 1 Cor. 1.5.6.7.8 yet were they to wait in the dispensation and use of ordinances wherein they were for another coming of the Lord Jesus in which way Pauls hope was that Christ would confirm them to the end that they might be blamelesse as else it seemes they could not be in the day i. e. the great and notable day of the second personal coming of the Lord Jesus Thou talkest to us alluding to Heb. 9.10 where the ordinances of the divine service of the law or old testament are so stiled of the ordinances of the Gospel under the name of carnall ordinances meer fleshly formes but know oh vain man that the outward rites or ceremonies of the Law are there called carnall on such an account as the ordinances of the Gospel cannot be so stiled viz. not at all because they were services performed by the outward man but because the performance of them served and sanctified no further then to the purifying of the flesh v. 13. viz. to the purging of the practisers thereof i. e. the Jews from such outward fleshly impurities as were contracted in the time of the Law by such things and actions as did denominate persons unclean for the time then being but neither do nor can so denominate them now that law with all the ordinances of it being abolished Thou callest Christs ordinances being not a little deluded by some expressions of Mr. Saltmarsh who speaks of them in his books as matters pertaining only to Iohns ministry whom together with his baptism and all that was done ad extra in the primitive time he puts upon the account of the law as pertaining to it rather then purely upon the account of the Gospel but know fond man that as Iohn was a minister of the Gospel of Christ and not of the law and his ministration of preaching and water baptism the very beginning of the Gospel of Christ as I have shewed above Mark 1.1.4 so if he and his ministration of baptism had related simply to the law as they did not yet that of laying on of hands and Church-fellowship in breaking bread were all given in charge by the new law-giver Christ Jesus and that of water baptism too for as if he had foreseen that some should delude themselves and others so as to say it ended at his death even that also was given a new after his death as his expresse commmand concerning all people to the worlds end Thou speakest of living higher then on such low weak empty elements and beggerly rudiments but to say nothing of thy abominable impudency and the desperate despite herein done by thee to the son of God whom thou treadest under foot whilst thou despisest his day of small things and settest light by the least of his commands and hurlst at thy heels the least jota of his law and testament or art ashamed of his words to let passe that I say we give thee to understand that we live not on these ordinances we use but only on our Lord Christ in them whose foolish weak things and earthen vessels they are by which he hands heavenly treasure to believing souls Thou tellest us that the use of outward ordinances was milk for babes in that infancy or nonage of tue Church which is no more then what we say our selves of some ordinances at least viz. baptism and imposition of hands which with the rest of the word of the beginning of Christs doctrine are so stiled Heb. 5.12 13.6.1.2 But what of this is it not very fit therefore that they should still be used the Church being yet under age unlesse thou wilt run necessarily upon the utterance of one of these two absurdities viz. that babes are not to be fed with milk now as heretofore but are more fitly fed with stronger meat or else which is as gross that there are no new born babes now in the Church as before at all but that every beginner in Christ is now a strong man a perfect man in Christ so soon as ever spiritually born Thou tellest us that to use ordinances is to know Christ after the flesh who from thenceforth was to be known so no more but herein oh spiritual man thou bewrayest thy own fleshly carnall and most crude conception of that place whereby the words of Paul though we have known Christ after the flesh he means not a knowing of him in the use of ordinances for then when he saies henceforth know we no man after the flesh it must have the same sense too and would suppose that till that time the Saints had known men in the use of ordinances besides that the Church at Corinth knew Christ in the use of ordinances long after this is eminently evident in the Epistle of Clement the Pastor and the Church at Rome written to the Corinthians upon occasion of their disorder in church affairs some 30 years after Paul wrote this but he means that they from thenceforth that Christ died did take cognizance of no man as ere the better upon the account of a meer fleshly descent or birth of any mens bodies no not of Abrahams as they had before nor count men in Christ and Christians at such a rate as they were counted to God as his under the Law but onely as new born spiritually born from above as new creatures as believing according to Iohn 1.12.13 and Gal. 3.26.29 if Christs by faith then Abrahams seed and heirs c. Thou tellest us that ordinances are as it were a dark glasse through which we are to behold Christ till we come to see him face to face a certain shadowy