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A53499 An answer to the challenge of Mr. Henry Jennings (Protestant Arch-Deacon of Dromore) which evidently makes-out the present Church of Romes doctrine to have been maintain'd in the first five ages, & the adversarys principles to be only a heap of heresies lawfully condemn'd by the primitive Church. To which is annexed An answer to one Whealy. Set forth by James O Shiell reader of Divinity. O'Sheill, James. 1699 (1699) Wing O530A; ESTC R214539 82,791 345

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to pray and give offerings for the soul of her de●●ased husband Origenes who liv'd in the year 220. ho● 6 on Exod. speaking of the soul's progresse when it comes to Purgatory sayes the following words and when it is ar●●sl●d there 〈…〉 willbrīg many good wor●s a●d al●●tle iniquity that 〈◊〉 is purg'd and disolv'd even as lead is by ●●re St. Athanasius who liv'd in the 4 age in his 34. Question to Ant●●chus speaking of the Prayer● and obla●ions offer'd for the dead sayes thus If they wou●d ●ot receive some benefit by this certainly there wou'd be ●●no commemorat on made in grief ●orr●● and ●nerals we know the ●o●ls ● sinners to receive som● b●●efit by the ●● bloody sacri●i●e by the gra●ific ●i●● offer'd for them ●s our Lord who h●● the dominion of both the qu●ck a●● the dead ●rde●'d and commanded S● Cyrill of Ierusa●em who liv'd i● the same age Catech. Myst ● sayes the following wor●is we ●● pray f●r all ●hose who dy'd among●● us believing the obl●tion of the holy terrible sacrifice to be a g●eat help to those souls for whom it is offer'd St. Ephrem who liv d the ●ame time in his la●t will earnestly be ●eches the people to be alwayes mindfull of him●elf in their Prayers St. Ba●il who also thē liv'd instituted an Oration in his Liturgie in order to ●e said for the dead and on the 9. ●●p of Isaiah he sayes thus there ●● if we w●●l discover the sinne by ●infession we shall dr●● even a● the ●●y which is ea●e● and it is ●●t that ●urrasory fire so●uld make an● e●d of 〈◊〉 ●dose not treaten pe●p●tua● death ●●d exile but it grants purgin● a cor●ng to that of the Apostle bu● h●m●elf shall be sav'd ye● so as b● f●re Gregorie NaZ●anz●n who liv●d the year ●70 in his Funeral Ora●tion of Caes●rius most humbly beseeche● the C●ristians to pray for the sou●s of the dead and himself prayes for the soul of Cae●arius in the same Oration St. ●p●phanius who as been con●emporary to St Gregorie in th● end of his ●ork against Heresis ● numbers the prayers for the dead amongst th● doctrine of the holy Catholic● Church and Heresie 75. he call● Aerius an heretick for denying it to be ●awfull to pray for the de● ad St. Ambrose who also liv'd about the same time in his 2 boo● Epist 8. which is to Faustus concerning his sisters death saye● thus therefore I do judge that she i● not as much to be moan'd as she i● to be oblig'd b● prayers neither is s●● to he griev'd by your tears but rath● h●r soul is to be recommended to G●● by ●blations in his Orati●s of The odosius Valētinianus Satyrus death he prays most fervently ●o their souls promisses to offer sacrifices for them And expound● the 3 Chap. of St. Paul's Epist ● ●orinthians he sayes the follo●ing words but wh●n ●aul sayes ●so as by f●re indeed ●e dec●ares it he shall be sav'd but he will suf●r the punishme●t of fire that he may ●purg'd b●●ire and ma●e sound and mus● not be tortur'd perpetually by ●nal fire a● the traitou●s ●re he has ●ch a nother passage in his 20th ●● in psal ●●8 St. Gregorie Nys●n who liv'd the year 380 in is Oration of the dead sayes ●us wherefore that both the digni●● of human nature and free will mi●ht left and that the evil might cease ●ivine w●sdom invented this means ●t either in this pesent life one must ● purg'd by prayers and exercise of ●rtue or after his death to be clea●s'd the for●ace of purging fire he cannot be cap●ble to enjoye C●d unle●● Pu●gatory fire will take away the spi●● dispe●s'd on the soul St Hierom● who liv'd in the year 390. in hi●●pist to Pammachus concerning ● the death of Paulina sayes thus other husba●ds dospread violets rose● lilyes and flowers ●pon the to●bs 〈◊〉 their wifes but our Po●machus ●● uses the bal●om of alms● knowing 〈◊〉 to be written that as water quenchet● fire even so alms quencheth the sinn●s and expounding the 4. chap. of Amos he also sayes thus according to tha● whi●h we read in St Paul he● shall be sav'd yet so as by fire therefore he ●ho is sav'd by f●re is hurry'd away as if ●● were a fire-brand out of the bu●ni●g slame St Chrisosto●e who liv'd in the year 398 hom 41 on St ●uls first Epist to the Corinthi●s speaking of the dead sayes ●e following words l●t us ass●st ●um not with tears but with prayers ●● supplica●ions alms and oblations ● these things has not been rashly v●nted neither is it in vain that we ●●ember those w●ody'd in the divi●● Mysteries and that we pray for ●●m bese●ehing the expos'd lambe ●ho takes away the sinnes of the world ●at thence forth they might have some ●●solation therefore let us help ●●m and let us per●orm their comme●nation for if ●obs sacr●fice made sa●sfaction for his ●ons what do you ●●ubt if tho●e who dy● ha● some ●●solation we effe●ing sacrifice for ●●m More of St. Chris●stom 's Authority may be seen in my answer to the first point and in his ● hom in Ioann 2● in act a Apos● St Augustin who liv'd in th● year 426. in his 21. book of th● C●ty of God c. 27 sayes that the●● are some Saints who a●ter thei● death gose straight to heaven an● afterwards can help oth●rs an● that there are others of such a bad life who after their death are no● sav'd neither can they help others and finally that there are others who after their death cannot go● straight to heaven by the vertue of their own proper merits but that they can be reliev'd by the merits and good works of their friends and in the 16th chap of the same book speaking of the infants who immediatly dye after ●●eir Baptism he sayes thus It is ●●t only that Eternal punishment is ●● prepar'd for them but neither shall ●●ey suffer Purgatory torments and ●● t●e 24 Chap. he puts a question ●quirīg why dose not the Chur●h pray for those who dye with●ut repentance answers sayīg ●hus Ti 's because they are computed be of the divels party but the ●hurch faithfull's prayers are heard ●● the behal● of others who did not ●have themselves so ill in this life ●ither did they deserve to go directly ●heaven In his book● of Homil yes ●om 16. he sayes that those who ●●s sinnes deserving temporal ●unishments shall go thro' pur●●tory fire according to that of ●●ul he shall be sav'd as by fire And expounding the 37. psalm he sayes thus that ●ire is slighted because ti 's said he shall be sav'd ti 's sure but altho' he shall be sav'd by fire yet that fire is more grievous than any thing that a man can suffer in this life In his 2. book de Genesi c. 20 speaking of him who makes not good use of his life he sayes thus after this life he shall either suffer the
purging fire or eternal punishment in his book de Cura pro Mortuis e. 1. he sayes the ●ollowing words we read in the Machabees that sacrifice has been offer'd for the dead but altho' it wou'd never be read in the old Testament yet the Authority of the who●e Church which is manifest in this custom is not weaks where in the priests prayers which are offer'd to God at his Altar the commemoration for the dead has also it's one place and in the 4 c of the same book he sayes thus supplications for the souls of the dead ought not to be omttted which are to be made for all those who dy'd in the Ch●istia● and Catholick society tho' their names be n●t specifi'd the Church receives it vnder a General●●mmemoration that it might be offer'd by the holy publick mother for them even as for those who has not parents oy children relation or friends to remember them and in the 18. c. ●speaking of the sacrifices prayers and alms which are offer'd for the dead he sayes the follo●ing words they do not avai● to all those for whom they are offer'd but only to those who deserv'd it when they liv'd but because we can not discern who are those it must needs be offer'd for all Christians in his 9th book of Confession c. 13. he earnestly beseeches others to pray for the soul of his mother Monica and in his book of heresie c. 53. he calls Aerius a heretick for not allowing sacrifice to be offer'd for the dead more of his Authority may be seen in my answer to the first point Now let us heare the Council● decrees It was enacted in the 29 Chap. of the 3. Council of Carthage the year 397. that the holy sacrament shu'd not be receiv'd by any but by those who wou'd be fasting and in case that there wou'd be any office to be perform'd in the afternoon for the dead that it shu'd be only perform'd in prayers without offering the holy sacrifice It was also decreed in the 47. ●hap of the 4. Council of Carthage celebrated the year 398 that in prayers and oblations there shu'd be a commemoration made of those who accidentally would dye in their Journey or by sea Jf they executed attentively the law of penance Likewise it was enacted in the 34 chap of the first Council of Bracara now call'd Braga a City in Portugal the year 412. not to pray for the souls of those who wou'd kill themselves and in the 39 chap. of the same Council the clergy where commanded to divide the ablations which wou'd be offer'd amongh themselves that equaly they might be oblig'd to pray for the dead It was also decreed in the Council of Cavaillon a town in France the year 4●0 that they shu'd pray in their solemn Masses for the souls of the dead c. 16. which may be seen de Consee Dist 1. Can. Visum est and the same was practis'd before in France as is evident by the 6. Canon of the Council of Vasens produc'd in my answer to the first point But that I may not be too tedious in proving the minor I shall conclude with the following revelations St. Gregorie relates in his 4th book of Dialogues ● 40 that the soul of Paschasius appear'd to the holy Bishop St Germa●●●s and ●ould him that God was pleas'd to release himself ou● of Purgatory by his prayers he also relates c. 55 that the soul of a certain monke appear'd to himself and ●ould him that it ●as releas'd by the vertue of thirty mas●es which he order'd to be said for him St. Gregorie the bishop of Tours in his book de Gloria Confes●orum c 5. affirms that the soul of Vitulina appear'd to St Martin and ●ould him that it suffer'd the punishment of Purgatory by reason of a smal si●ne which she commited ted in this life Venerable Bede in his 5. book of the Historie of Englād c 13 relates that terrible vision of Driethelme who after his death reviv'd and tould wonderfull things concerning hell Purgatory and Paradise Petrus Damianus in his ●pist to Desiderius relates that the soul of Severinus the Bishop of Coliein appear'd to a certain Priest and tould that he sufferd in purgatory because when he was a live he did not use to say his canonical hours in distinct times but said all in the morning that he might spend the whole day attending temporal affairs also St. Bernard writing the life of St. Malachias relates that his Sisters soul appear'd to St. Malachias and tould him that it suffer'd the pains of Purgatory and Gul●●●●us Abbas w●i●īg the life of St. Bernard in his first book c. 10 sayes that one of St. Bernards monks ●ho dy'd appear'd to St Bernard and tould him that he was rel●ast out of purgatory by his prayers It is also to be seen in the life of St Anselmus that he was for a ●●ole twelve-moūth offering sacrifices for the releasment of a certain friends soul who was punish'd in Purgatory but was releast thro' the merits of God and by his continual prayers several other revelations might be produc'd which for brevity sake ● omit to inse●● here for I suppose what I have already produc d to have evidently made out the verity of my minor and also to have fully satisfi'd the reader Chap 11 Proving that all those of the Primitive Church had not the word of God in their Mother to●gue and that the reading thereof is not profitable or genera●ly allowed to all people There were severall nations in the first five centuryes who did not generally understand either the Syriack Hebrew Greeck or Latin To●gue therefore there were several nations in the first five centuryes who had not the word of God in their own tongue the antecedent is evident Acts Cap 2. as may be seen in my answer to the adversary's 3. point And ● prove the consequence thus the word of God was neither written or translated into any other language in the first five C●nturyes but only in the aforesaid as all ancient writters do unanimously affirm therefore there were several nat●ons in the first five Centuryes who had not the word of God in their own tongue who conseqently cou'd not rea● the Scripture nav those who cou'd understand some of these languages had no General accesse to the reading thereof for in those times there were but few exampl●s ●● of it which were only in Manu-script for the art of Printing was not then found-out nor in a long t●me after researv'd by the Church as St Denis the Are●pagite declares in his book de Eccles. Hier. saying that the ●acred mysteries were ke●pt secred from the commonality whereby it appears that it was then needlesse to prohibit them to read the scrpture whereas they were otherwise ●●nder'd by the aforsaid impediments It also appears that the reading thereof in the Mother tongue is not necessary for all nations for if it were certainly those of the Primitive Church
sayes thus It was not in vain the Apostles order'd that they shou'd be remember'd in the venerable and terribile mysteries for they knew this to be a relief and help to them for when all the people with open arms and the priests offer that dreadfull sacrifice full of veneration how shall we not pacific God praying for them he hath such an other Authority in his 41. Homily on St. Pauls first Epist to the Corinthians and in his 7. Homily on his Epist to the Hebrews he sayes thus speaking of Christ we offer alwayes the same truely noe other but still the same therefore it is one sacrifice for this reason because he is offer'd in several places are they many Christs no not at all but one Christ in all places who is wholy and intirely here and there one bo●● in his 32. de Consubstantiali ●● Sharply reprehend those who neglect to hear masse and in his 2● Homily de baptismo he compare those who leave masse before th● last benediction to Judas who the Lords last supper departe before giving thanks More ●● his Authorityes may be seen n● only in his liturgy but also i● several places manifestly proving the ancient practice of celebrating masses St. Augustin wh● liv'd in the begining of the 5. century declares in his 9 book o● Confession c. 12. that there w● masse said for the soul of his own Moth● Monica her body being laid beside t● sepulchre In his 32 Ser de verb is Apostoli speaking of the dead he sayes the following words the prayers of the holy church the comfortable sacrifice and the alms which are offer'd for those spirits is not to be doubted that they are help'd by them for this hast been deliver'd by the Fathers which new the universal Church observes that those whodye in the communion of the body blood of Christy are remembr'd when the sacrifice is offer'd who doubts them to be favour'd for prayers are not in vain offer'd for them to God And in his Enchiridion c. 110. he also sayes that it is not to be deny'd that the soul of the dead are o●s'd when the holy sacrifice is offer'd for them In his 22. book of the city of God chap. 8. he relates that when Hesperious's coūtry house was troubl'd by malignant spirits tha● he desir'd one of his priests to go thither by the vertue of whose prayers the spirits might give over one of them went saith he and offer'd there the sacrifice of the body of Christ and afterwards the House was no more troul'd More of St. Augustins Authorityes may be seen in hi● 46. Epist in his book de cura promorcuis c. 18. in his book desancta virgin c. 45. in his first book de origine animae c. 9. 11 in his 84. treatise in Joānem All which I omit to produce for breviti sake shall only insert that of venerable Bede who in his first book c 29 ●●lates that St. Gregory had sent Priestly ornaments to St. Augustin the apostle of England and in his 4 book c ●2 he tells that when J●ma was taken captive by the enemyes that he cou'd never bety'd by reason of several masses which his brother Tunna the monke said for his soul believing that he was kill'd in the battel and also in his 5 book c. 13. speaking of that terrible vision of Driethelme who after his death reviu'd and told wonderfull things concerning the pains of purgatory from which said venerable Bede Prayers alms fasts and celebrations of masses doe release many before the day of Judgment Now let us see the councils Authorityes It was decree'd in the 5 can of the council of Vasens atowne in France where 18 Bishops gather'd the year 442 that kyrie eleison shu'd be said in the masses throughout all the Churches of France as it was said long before in the East and in all Italy here are the councils very words quia tam in sede apostolica quam etiam per totas Orientis atque Italiae provincias dulcis et nimis salubris consuetudo in tromissa est ut kirieelcison cum grandi affectu accompūctione dicatur placuit etiam ut in ominibus Ecclesiis nostris ista consuetudo sancta et ad matutinum et ad missas et ad vesperam deo propitiante intromittatur Likewise it was enacted in the 6 can of the same council that the following words holy holy holy shu'd be said īmornig masses ī the masses of lent and in those masses which were offer'd for the dead as it was accustom'd to be said in solemn Masses the words of the Coūcil are these In omnibus missis sive matutinis sive quadragessimalibus sive in illisquae prodefunctorum commemorationibus siunt semper sanctus sauctus sāctus eo ordine quo ad missas publicas dici debeat quiatam dulcis et desiderabilis vox etiam die noctuque possit dici fastidium non potest generare et hoc nobis justum visum est ut nomen Domini Papae quicunque sedi apostolicae praefuerit in nostris Ecclesiis recitetur Which Authorieyes doe not only make out the ancient practice of celebreating Masses but also the Popes supremacy of which I shall treate in my answer to the 4 point In the mean time let us hear the Declarations of other old Councils concerning the present point We read in the 18 can of the council of Agato celebreated the year 506 that the seculars were then oblig'd to receive the Communiō trice in the year viz at Christemas haster and Whitsuntide and in the 47 can of the same coūcil t is expres'd that they were oblig'd to hear masse every sunday Which plainly makes out that in the primitive Church it was lawfull for the Priest to say masse tho' none else wou'd receive the Communion along with him to confirm which I shall produce the Authorityes of the two following Councils who sate above a thousand years agoe the fathers of the 12 council of Toleto can 5 sharply reprehend'd certain Priests for not receiving the Communion when they said Masses which is asign that they acknowledg'd the Masse to be lawfull tho' none wou'd communicate but onely the Priest And the council of Nant c 30 quoted by Ivo p 3 deer e 70 ● prohibit'd the Priests to say masse alone withōut the assistance of one to answer them which Authority proves the ancient practise of celebrating privat masses Tho' Luther and his doctrine aleadges the contrary for the fathers of that Council only obliges the Priests to have clerks to answer them but mentions not a word of a second person to be requisite for receiving the communion along with the Priest for they knew too well that there was no divine or Ecclesiastical precept obliging the Priest not to say Masse if none else wou'd communicate along with him and moreover that there was no Precept commanding others to receive the Communion as often as the Priest wou'd celebrat Masse for that was left to the
golden censer there was given unto him much incense that he shou'd offer it with the prayers of all Saints upon the golden Altar which was before the throne the smoake of the incense which came with the prayers of the Saints ascended up before God out of the Angels hands we read in the 2. book of the Maccabees c. 15. that Judas Machabeus had seen Onias the high Priest and Jeremiah the Prophet after their death interceding to God for the people of Israel and that this book is Canonical I will prove in my answer to the next point we read also in the 15 c. v. ● of Jeremiah that the Lord spoke unto him saying thus Tho' Moses and Samuel stood before me yet my minde cou'd not be towords this people cast them out of my sight and let th●● go forth which words our Lor● wou'd not have said If Moses ● Samuel tho' dead were not wo●● to interced for the Jewes whi●● may be confirm'd out of Exod● c. 32 v. 13. where we read th●● Moses himself beg'd of the Lor● to shew his mercy to the peopl● for the sake of Abraham Isaac a●● Israel his own servants for as Theodoret q. 67. on Exod saye● Moses thinking himself so ●● insufficient to pacifie the Lord● he sets down not only his o●● promise but also the aforsai● Patriarchs merits that the reb● the Lord might be more willi●● to have commisseration upon th● people and pardon them whic● then he did as is manifest by the 14 v. of the same chap. Moses also endeavour'd an other time to pacifie the Lord's fury thro' the aforsaid Patriarchs merits assistance as is evident out of Deut. c. 9. v. 27 wherre he sayes thus remember they servāts Abraham Isaac and Jacob looke not unto the stoubbornness of this people nor to their wickedness nor to their sinne Was it not for the sake of Abraham tho' dead his son Isaac obtain'd several requests favours from the Lord Genesis c. 26. v. 3. 4 5. 24. wou'd not the Lord divide Salomon's Kindom give it to his servants If it had not been for the sake of David as may be seen ïn the 3 book of Kings c. 11. v. 11. 12. was it not for the sake of David Aby as obtain'd that his son Asa reign'd in Jerusalem as may be seen in the same book c. 15. v. 4. was it not also for the sake of David tho' dead the Lord sav'd the city of Jerusalem from being destroy'd by the Assyrians as is evident out of the 4th book of King● c. 19. v. 32 3● ● 20. v. 6. when Salomon beg'd any great request from the Lord was not he wont to set down the merits of David that thereby he might the sooner obtain his request as may be seen in the 131. Psalm v. 1. 10. which is in the Protestant bible the 132. Psalm Now let the reader consider what a great happiness it is to have a faithfull friend and Patron in great honour and request with God almighty thro' who●e merits and intercission one may obtain several benefits which otherwise wou'd not be granted as the premisses do evidently make-out for as God almighty was graciously pleas'd thro' the bountifullnesse of his infinite mercy to grant for the merits and intercession of these Patriarches who then were but in Limbo Patrum so many benefits and requests to those whom they protected in this world why also now in the law of grace wou'd not the same God most mercyfully grant us any lawfull request for the intercession and great merits of his holy Mother beloved Apostles faithfull Martyres and true Confessors who are in great honour and request residing with himself in ●eaven Especially being this dose not derogate to the honour of Christ as I will prove by the following passage If it be unlawfull to invocate Angel Saints either it is because they k●nown not what we say or because it wou'd derogate to the honour of Christ who is said to be the mediator betwen God man according to that of John in his first Epist c. 2. v. 1. not for the first as I have already shew'd and shall confirm it by the following examples We read in the 4th book of Kings c. 5. v. 26 that Eli●ha knew tho' ab●ēt Gehazie's Simonie and in the c 6th v. 12. that Elisha also knew what was said in the King of Syria's private Chamber in the 15th c. v. 10. of Luke that the Angels of God doth rejoyce at the conversion of a sinner which is the greatest secret that one can have yet it can be known to the Angels and also to the Saints in heaven either by a distinct revelation from the clear vision of God's essence or by the visiō of themselves as S. Gregorie in his 2. book of Dialogues c. 3. affirms saying thus what is it that there they know not where they know him who knowes all Neither dose it derogate to the honour of Christ for the Church of Rome certainly believes Christ to be the chief Mediator betwen God and man as St Paul affirms in his Epist to Timothy c. 2. v. 5. therefore she dose not allow to invocate Angels or Saints in order to obtain any request immediatly and directly from themsleves for she acknowledges that to be a folly consequently not to be in their power So that she only allows to beg of them to join their prayers intercessiō with those of the faithfull that thereby they might the sooner easier obtain from God their requests thro' the meri●● and in●e●cession of Jesus Christ which is manifest out of St. Leo's 2 Oration de Jejunio and also by the publick Orations of the Church wherein she implores the intercession of Angels and Saints for she wou'd have them to be efficacious thro' the assistance and merits of Christ it is therefore they alwayes end with the following words Per Domi●um nostrum Jesum Christum Fili●m ●●um qui t●cum vivit et regna● in unitate spiritus sainti Deus per osnnia saecula sae●ulorum A men whereby the reader may plainly perce●ve that the invocations of Saints dose not derogate to the honour of Christ otherwise St Paul might be accus'd for beseeching the Romans Colossians Hebre●s Theslalonians to assist himself in his prayers and also to pray for him to God as is e●ident by St Paul's own Epistles to the Romans c 15 v. 30. to the Hebrews c. 13. v. 18. 19. to the Colossians c. 4. v. 3. in his first and s●cond to the Thessalonians c. 5 v. 25. c 3. v. 1 so that the Adversary must either Confess the invocation of Saints not to der●gate Christ's honour or else to condemn St Paul's Doctrine for I d●fie him ever to make-out that the intercession of those who live in this world is acceptable to God n●t the intercession of ●hose who are cōfirm'd in grace glory or that one is prejudice to Christ