words as I speak them HVMâ— his 5. Sect. BVt that hee neuer was there hee is too curious that will not stand content with Christes owne testimonies Father into thy handes I commend my spirit And in another place This day shalt thou bee with mee in Paradice And heere it is a world to see how men on your side labour to put out this candel First you say that this place Father into thy hands I commend my spirit is borrowed of Dauid and must bee taken in the same sense as Dauid vsed it before But you must consider when we vse other mens wordes either we cite them as testimonies or vsurpe them by imitation If we bring them in as witnesses wee may not alter their testimonie but if wee imitate them wee may without impeachmeÌ„t apply them to what sense best may beseeme our purpose In this place Christ citeth not Dauids wordes to testifie of his passion but imitateth Dauid in commending his soule into the handes of God Where you see that no necessity inforceth the same sense But be it so and I thinke it is so and that it maketh much against you For seing Dauids soule commeÌ„ded into the hands of God was neuer in Hell it will follow that Christes soule commended to the same protector was lykewise neuer there except you will ascribe lesse vertue to Christs prayers then to Dauids But Dauids soule say you went not streight way into heaven because he lived manie yeares after That he liued anie long time after if it were denied you will hardlie proue it But that maketh not to the question when Davids soule came into heauen But whether hee that commendeth his soule into the hands of God doth purpose that it shall descend into hell prooue that and you shall haue the goall As for Dauid he hauing deuoured heauen in hope doubted not if he liued anie long time after to speake that in the praesent time which he was well assured would come to pas And seeing Dauid was a figure of Christ and spake manie things in his owne person which aggree better with the person figured then with the figure these wordes may bee vnderstood as the casting of lottes on his garment and the digging of his hands and feet Wherefore if you will answere this place to the satisfaction of them that dissent from you you must bring proof that hee that meaneth to goe to Hell doth commend his soule into the handes of God or els you shall neuer bee able to darken the light of this Sunne with anie cloude of Sophistrie HILL his reply INdeed if these woords were spoken in the present time some shew of truth were in your words but in the Greeke they are in the future-tence 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Father into thy hands I wil coÌ„mit my spirit Now your argument is this Christ commended his soule vnto his Father ergo immediatly he went not downe to hell Heere is more in your conclusion then is in your premises You may coâ—clud his soule went to heauen But not immediatly for it went to hell as I haue proued before for hell in the 16 Psalme doth not signifie the sorrowes of hell but the place as I haue confirmed already Therefore it is better to translate I wil commend then I do commend as Stephanus oâ— this place noteth Paule sayth Eph. 4. and 10. verse Now in that he ascended what is it but that he first descended into the lowest parts of the earth He that descended is euen the same that ascended farte aboue all heauens to fulfill all things Now if the same Christ did first desceÌ„d which did ascend then he descended in soule and body as he ascended in soule and body For both these must be effected in a wonderfull maner for they are reckoned by Salomon amongst the most stupendious works of the Sonne of God Proâ— 30. 4. Who hath ascended vp to heauen and descended who hath gathered the winde together in his fyst who hath established all the ends of the world By this scripture I iuferre that to ascend and descend are as miraculous works as to create and gouerne the world But if the soule of Christ did got to heaueÌ„ immediatly as you affirms contrary to this text then the descending of Christ had not bene so maruelous as his ascending Besides as you after alleage there is but one ascending but if Christs soule first went to heauen then his body then were there two ascensions But euen as Christ was but once borne and once dyed and once buried and once rose from the dead and but once commeth into iudgment so as Cyprian saith in his Sermon of the ascending of Christ Christ did once descend into hell they shall see God no more on the crosse nor they that are damned in hel Wherefore may it please you to accept the iudgement of Athanasius a Greke Father a man persecuted for the truthes sake by the Arrians he in his Creede saith thus who suffred for our saluation and descended into hell And interpreting the 1. Cor. 3. writeth Satan was enuious against our sauior for he killed him not knowing that it wold make against himself for Christ after his cros going down into hel hath vaÌ„quished death And becaus he knew no sin be could not be holde of deth Thus you see that not only Hill Augustine and Ierome doe say that Christ after hee had vttered these words into thy hands I will commend my spirit but Athanasius a Greek father who better then you vnderstood the meaning of these words Therefore it is a woÌ„der to see how those of your side labour to extinguish this everlasting light of Gods truth set vp a cousuming candle of your owne making Where you teach that Christs Soule did no more descend into hell then Dauids did therin you are deceaued For Christ was to deliuer vs from hell Dauid also wherefore if Christs soule had not gone to hell Dauids must and mine and yours And for this cause as you say they are true in Christ figured but not in Dauid the figure and herevpon Peter thus reasoneth that they could not be true in Dauid For Christ soule was in hel and yet not tormented his body in the graue but not corrupted wheras Dauids body saw corruption and if his soule had gone to hell it had found no redemption Therefore to be in graue and returne without corruption and to be in hell and returne with conquest of the diuell were two peculiar things to the Sonne of God not to any other of the sons of men And heere you vtter an other blasphemy that Christs soule had no other prerogatiue then Dauids soule for by the same reasone you may argue that Christs body had no greater prerogatiue then Dauids body for as this is false so
that spoake breake Now heere beholding the maior and the minor two brasen vnbreakable walles you set all your teeth on the poore conclusion to pull it from them To take this place of this Psalme quite from vs you alledge the holie Ghost and Peter two sufficient witnesses because they referre this place to the resurrection and we to the passion Allace good Doctor vbiacumen tuum Doe not you see man that though the negatiue Thou wilt not leaue my soule in hell pertaineth to the resurrection yet the affirmatiue that his soule was in hell may pertaine to his passion Peter alledgeth the negatiue in the Psal to proue his resurrection and our question is not whether hee rose againe or not but whether the thing wherein he was is to bee taken for the place or the panges of hell And heere I muste needes confesse that this consideration hath driuen mee quite from Calvine whome in this place I first followed As for the place of the beleefe I am perswaded that his sense is moste agreable beeing godlie consonant to the Scriptures necessarie for the perfection of the creede not repugnant to the circumstances thereof and moste comfortable to a Christian conscience But in this place of this Psal now I see that Olevians opinion is truer more consonant to the rest of the text and more plaine against your drousie dreame Wherfore now I am perswaded that SHEOL is heer set for the state of the dead and my soule for mee as it is Psal 3. 2. Manie say to my soule that is to mee And Psal 7. 2. Least hee devoure my sonle lyke a Lyon that is mee And Psal 6. 3. My soule is sore troubled that is I am sore troubled So the sense must bee Thou wilt not leaue my soule in Hell that is mee amongest the deade That this must needes bee the true sense heereof I haue two reasons First that this was the SHEOL wherein Christes soule was not left whence hee rose againe as may appeare by this allegation of Peter But hee rose again from the graue and condition of the deade not from hell and condition of the damned Ergo the SHEOL wherein Christs soule was not left is the condition of the dead and not the place of the damned The answere here that he rose in soule and body the one from hell and the other from the graue will not holde for the name of resurrection belongeth onelie to the bodie because nothing ryseth againe but that which death laide downe So hath our beleefe the resurrection of the bodie not the resurrection of the soule This was M. Fieldes argument which did choake you in the act at Oxonford and hang so fast in your teeth that hee coulde not get it out of your mouth much lesse an answere to it The other is builded vpon the wordes of Peter Act. 2. 19. Men and brethren I may boldlie speake to you of the patriarch Dauid that hee is dead and buried and his sepulchre is amongest vs to this day In which wordes expounding this place of the Psalme Thou wilt not leaue my soule in hell nor suffer thy holie one to see corruption hee laboureth to proue that Dauid spake not this of himselfe but of the Messias that was to come of his loines His reason is because Dauid is deade and buried and his sepulchre remained amongest them as if he had said because Dauids soule was left in Hell and saw corruption For where the negatiue is not true there the affirmatiue muste bee true by the rule of contradiction Wherevpon thus I reason Dauids soule that is Dauid himself as I haue said before was left in the SHEOL wherin Christs soule should not be left But Dauids soule was left in the state and condition of death Ergo it was the state and condition of death wherein Christes soule was not left by this place The same argument may bee formed negatiuelie to take away your exposition of this place Dauids soule was left in the SHEOL wherof it is said in the Psalme Thou wilt not leaue my soule in Hell nor suffer thy holie one to see corruption But Dauids soule was not left in the place of the damned Ergo it is not the place of the damned whereof it is said in the Psalme Thou wilt not leaue my soule in hell nor suffer thy holie one to see corruption Wheras some alledge against this interpretation that it doeth violate the text taking the soule first for the whole man the whole againe for the bodie Let them consider that the condition of the dead expressed heere in the name of SHEOL pertaineth not to the body only but to the whole man Neither were it injurie to the text if it be so taken For the cup is set for wine and wine for the blood of Christ by Paull himself who vseth not to violate wordes These reasons therefore haue led mee from Calvine whome though I reuerence as he is well worthie as much as anie man yet I am not so maried to him howsoeuer M. Doct. is perswaded otherwise to folloâ—e him the bredth of a haire beyond truth and reason Hee may bee deceaued aswell as others though he hath plunged through manie deepes that haue devoured manie Nowe to returne againe and to followe vpon your walke you charge mee heere as euerie where with an vntruth To fasten it vpon mee you turne my wordes out of their figured coate into their bare skinne For whereas I say that Christ suffered the whole tormentes of hell vpon the crosse taking the drosse by a Synecdoche for the whole passion as he did before mee which said God forbid that I delight in any thing but in the crosse of Christ The preaching of the crosse is to manie foolishnes Christ reconciled vs to God by his Crosse You tell mee that it is most vntrue because he did not suffer his whole torments on the wodden Crosse which Symon the Cyrenian did beare on his backe And to make my wordes more odious you do them more injurie For whereas I say hee suffered the whole tormentes of Hell on the Crosse a thing defend-able you charge mee as saying he suffered all his torments vpon the Crosse meaning the Crosse of wood a thing without shewe of truth In the ende to fasten another little faulte on me it is but blasphemie you wring my last wordes in the fame presse For whereas I say that a word of double signification standeth at the courtesie of the reader to be taken as shall seeme most probable meaning that there is nothing in the word it self to lead the mynde to one signification more then another but depends vpon the probable circumstances and drift of the text you charge mee as making the Scriptures like a nose of waxe to bee set which way mens fantasie will bend it a thing as farre out of my penne as out of my heart and as far out of my heart as it is out of your heart to take my
is the other For as Athanasius saith in his booke of the incarnation of the word Death Could not prevaile on the humaâ—e soule of Christ to tye him there neither corruption inâ—ading his body by â—iranny could shewe her force on him to putrefaction as things not well seene vnto for to thinke so of him were a wicked thing for even as Adam had a double punishement inflicted on him for his disobedience the on was on his body earth thou art and to earth thou shalt returne and so by this decree the body of the Lord departed vnto the earth but to the soule hee said Thou shalt dye the death Hereof it commeth to passe that man is deuided into 2. parts and is condemned to depart to 2. places and therefore it was necessary that the selfe same Iudge which had made this decree that hee by himselfe being vnder the colour of a condemned man shuld free from that sentence all beleuers Here you see by this learned Father that Christs soule went to Hell to deliuer our soules from hell and his body to the graue to deliuer vs from death by this means both body and soule personally and not potentially as you teach working our deliuerance from death and hell haue those prerogatiues which Dauids soule and body had not And for this coâ—sideration though the one was in the graue and the other in hell yet both were in the handes of the Lord. Heere then wee must learne what the hands of the Lord do signifie Sometime the hand of god doth signifie the Sonne of God Psal 144. 7. Send thy hand from aboue Sometime it signifieth the power of God Psalm 136. 12. With a mighty hand and outstretched arme Thirdly the bountifulnes of God Psal 145. Thou openest thy hand and fillest euery liuiug thing with thy blessing Foâ—rthly it signifieth consolation Ezec. 3. 22. The hand of the Lord was with me comforting me Fiftly grace Psal 118. 16. The right hand of the Lord â—ath done valiantly Sixtly it signifieth the gift of prophecie Ezec. 8. The hand of the Lord fel there vpon me Seuenthly mercy Psal 37. 24. Though he fall he shall not be cast off for the Lord putteth vnder his hand Eightly the protection of the Lord Psal 31. 15. My times are in thy hand Ninthly the aide of the Lord Psal 74. 11. Why withdrawest thou thy hand Tenthly the punishment of the Lord Iob. 19. 21. Haue pitie on me ô yee my frinds for the hande of the Lord hath touched me Lastly it signifieth the Gouernment of the Lord Psal 95. 4. In his hand at al the corners of the earth This place therefore must needes haue this construction into thy consolation mercie protection and gouernment I will commend my soule I hope you your selfe commende your soule into the handes of God euery day but yet you minde not to goe to heauen immediatly So saide Dauid Psal 30. 5. Into thy handes I commend my spirit but hee went not to heauen in manye yeares after neither did Christ ascende into heauen in many dayes after but went downe to hell where it was in the protection and gouerement of the Godhead which as you confesse descended into hell For as we being in the damned world are in the protection and hand of the highest so Christ being in the place of the damned after a wonderfull manner was also in the Lords aide and protection by meanes whereof he hath wrought our deliverance from hell Therfore proue you that Chirst went straitway to heauen and you shal effect that which many of your side haue attempted but neuer yet any coulde bring to passe It is written of Procustes that if any were too short for his bâ—â— he would not stretch theÌ„ out and make them fit for his lodging so you this place being too short to fit your wast will enlarge it with a word immediatly which is not the place primitiue or derivatiue expressely or by way of implication Moreouer where you say if I will answer this place I must proue that he that mindeth to go to hell doth vse these words I wonder that you dar vse such blasphemons speeches for hereby you insinuate that Christ was but a meere man that other men haue a part in the work of our redemption aswell as Christ For as he is our only Sauior so as Luth. saith on Gen 21. Chapter This was singular in Christ Thou shalt not leaue my soule in Hell nor suffer thy holy one to see corruption for this soule could not be deteined in hell nor his body in graue For as this was singular in Christ that hee did giue vp his ghost so was it singular in him to go to hell and returne again Ambrose saith Tradidit spiritum suum quia non inuitus amisit quod enim emittitur volunt arium est quod amittitur necessarium He gaue vp the ghost because hee lost not his soule against his will for that which is emited is voluntarie but that which is amitted is necessary Theophilact sayth hee cryed out with a loude voice and gaue vp the ghost for he had power to lay downe his life and take it vp again Now when you can proue that you or any of your side haue this power in you to dye when hee will and liue againe when hee will then will I prooue that hee that speaketh these words Into thy hands I commende my spirit hath an intent to goe to Hell But as Christ his birth was a singular thing in him so was his death buriall descending in to hel resurrection and assension into heauen Eccle. 8. 8. Man is not Lord ouer the spirite to retaine the spirit And Iohn 10. 18. Christ saith No man taketh my life from me but I lay it downe of my selfe I haue power to lay it downe and power to take it vp againe By these two places it is euident that no man can lay downe his owne spirite but the only sonne of God had that prerogatiue and therefore as the laying downe of his spirit and the taking vp of his spirit againe was wonderfull so was the state of the soule and body during the time of the seperation of the parts of the humanity singular and wonderfull Absurdities admitted in this sect by the D. First that Christ did descend in soule and bodie take it how he will is absurde If he meane into Hell taking Hel as he would haue it that is in soule onlie If into the graue it was in bodie onelie If into the wombe of the Virgine It was in Diuinitie onelie 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Second If Christes soule had not gone to the locall Hell Dauids must and his and mine contrarie to the suffiencie of Christs sacrifice Third That Christes soule and bodie besides innocencie had other prerogatiues then Dauids had Contrarie to
your self or half so indifferent as men do wish that wish you well you might haue seen that the graue is vsed by a Metonymi◠for all the dead whether layd vp in the bowels of the earth or floting in the sea or devoured of rauenous beasts For the Hebrue SHEOL doth not so much signifie the graue which for want an other word we are forced to set for it by a Metonymia as that which the greeke 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doeth better expresse by the privation of light or life separating all the dead which in Latine be called inferi and manes from the living which they call superstites And not comprysing onelie them which are buried in a graue as you do ignorantly suppose heere nor the damned as you do as wiselie hold in another place Thus the very heathens did vse this word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 saith Homer that is hee sent manie worthie soules not to the hell of tormentes that had beene a bad rewarde for their worthinesse but to the dead or to the graue So is the same word vsed by Nonnus a Christian Poet of great antiquitie in his Paraphrase vpon Iohn cap 11. speaking of Lazarus who you will not saye I hope was in Hell 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is and hearing amongst them that were dead rotten the fugitiue corps returned again out of hel The same authour in the same place vseth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the same signification whence the Latines haue borrowed their Barathrum 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 That is who raised vp the dead Lazarus skipping out of the smokie gulfe and returning from the dead So the Latines vsed their Orcus and Tartarus not deuiding the damned and the saued but the dead and the living by the privation and habit of light and seeing Wher you aske mee why Dauid should speake of their temporall death which is common to all I tolde you if you will be tolde it to solace himself by the rememberance of their malice that it was not euerlasting but should cease with their short liues You conclude this section with a new syllogisme with protestation to good M. Hum◠so you call him to answere it plainelie The lower partes of the earth signifie not the graue but hell Christ descended into the lower parts of the earth Ergo Christ discended into Hell Now M. Hume to deserue your good name first denies the maior secondlie he replyes to the minor that in his judgement the lowermost partes of the earth that Christ descended into may wel be taken for the base and meane estate that the sonne of God discended into vpon the earth The sonne of a Carpentar borne in a stable cradled in a cratch and living in a base estate without a hole to hide his head in was even the lowest and basest partes of the earth Hee could not well goe lower Thus Hume bids you goe your way and take this for an answere HVME Sect. 9. YOur other places be I wil pearce through all the lowermost partes of the earth and looke on them that bee a sleepe Eccles 24. And they shall be cast downe into the lowermost parts of the earth and sleep in the middest of the vncircumcised Ezech. 31. 18. which two places by your leaue cannot be well meant of Hel. Except that you can perswade vs that there is sleepe that is rest and quietnes in Hell but of the graue and state of the dead whereof wee haue as commonlie almoste as stones in the streete he did sleepe with his Fathers The same wordes ERETS TACHTITH which you say doth signifie properlie Hell be so vsed by the Prophet David Psal 139. 14. That they can no wise bee taken in that signification except it can be proued that Dauid was fashioned and made in Hell His wordes bee these My bones are not hid from thee though I was made in a secrete place and fashioned beneath in the earth Here Beza doeth well obserue that the place of the Apostle which you alledge may fitlie bee applied to the sense of this place and note vnto vs the discense of Christ into the wombe of the Virgine HIL his Reply FIrst you say the place quoted by me Syrac 24. 37 maketh not for the proofe of my assertion If you had considered what went before and what followeth you wold haue bin of another mind For before in the 8. verse is saide I alone haue gon round about al the compas of heauen and haue walked in the bottome of the depth Which depth Pellicanus alearned writer doth interpret abyssum mortis inferorum the depth of death and hel Yea the whole Chapter speaketh of the Sonne of God and of his wondrous workes in sauing mankinde of the which this is on that he was not only aliue among the liuing but after death his bodye was among the dead bodyes and his soule among the soules in hell which hee calleth the lower parts The like scripture to this is in Iob. 38. 16 17. Hast thou entered into the bottom of the sea or hast thou walked to seeke out the depth haue the gates of death bin opened vnto thee or hast thou seene the gates of the shadowe of death These words are thus opened by Martin Borrhauius in his learned Commentaries vpon Iob. I haue dwelled in the highest places and my throne is in the pillar of the cloudes I haue gone rounde about the compasse of heauen aboue and haue wallted in the flouds of y ◠sea I pearce through all the lower parts of the earth Haue those in hell or the dead bin searched out of thee dost thou knowe their estate and condicion and what shall happen to their bodyes hereafter and what doth happen to their soules now The force of death and of hell hee maketh maniefest by the names of gates as it is manifest in that scripture and the gates of hell shall not prevaile against thee By these words it is euident that the nethermoste partes of the earth Syrac 24 37. and Zalmaueth the Hebrue word Iob. 38 17. doo signifie hell and that none but the Sonne of God aboue hath personaly shewed himself in all these places For the place in Ezechiel that it maketh most significantly for my purpose I wil proue it by Esay Ezech and diuers other both learned modest writers Esay 14 9. handling the same matter saith Hel beneth is moued for thee to meet thee at thy comming And Ezechiel in the 15. and 16. verses calleth it hell plainly Sith then both the prophets call it hell how dare you to interpret the graue that the nethermost parts of the earth do signifie hell I prooue it out of the 12. ver of Ezechiel And the strangers haue destroyed him euen the terrible nations and they haue left him vp on the montaines and in all the vallies his branches are broken Munster
end you ad that the Apostle doth shewe vs how he was dead and how he was aliue by adding dead flesh and quickened spirit The verie text as I take it will denie you this for it hath not that the spirit was quickened and the fleshe killed but that Christ was killed in the fleshe and quickened in the spirit which is all one as if he had said that the suffered death as he was man and ouercame death as he was God And this Paull doeth speake in other wordes that he was crucified in his infirmities yet liveth he through the power of God Fourthlie you say that the Scripture doeth joine this his going and preaching close to his passion As if it had said As soon as he had suffered he went and preached This as if includeth no necessarie matter We expect demonstration and wil not be caried with as and if Fiftlie you argue out of the 6. of Genesis that the preaching of Noah is attributed to the third person of the Deitie and not to the second The wordes be these My Spirit shall not alwaies striue with man because he is but flesh Which wordes fewe or rather no interpreters that euer I saw expound as you doe of the third person of the Deitie Tremelius and Iunins whose great panies learning and judgement all sinceare hearts do reuerence expound them thus I will not long dispute with my self saieth the Lorde what to doe with these men for my sentence shall stand that except they spedelie repent I wil destroy them Neither maketh it much against vs though it were as you would haue it For seeing the actions of the Deitie are cōmon to all the three persons he erreth not that giueth thē to any of the three So doth the scripturs in many places attribute the resurrectiō of Christ sometimes to the Father somtimes to the sonne and sometimes to the Spirit of sanctification And Christ himselfe telleth vs that whatsoeuer the Father doth the same he doeth also After this you object that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is disobedient some-time doth separate the time of their disobedience and his preaching But heere I must put you in minde that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is went disobedient preached be all of one tense in the Greeke and must needes be referred to one time so that hee went and preached to them euen then when they were disobedient And this the word disobedient doth confirme For to whome I pray you were they disobedient but to the spirit that preached to them As for the adverbe sometime it is not set heere to separate words of one time but to distinguish the time of their inprisonment which was present from the daies of their rebellion which was past in the dayes of Noah when the long patiēce of the Lord exspected their amendement Whereas you argue that this cannot bee spoken of Noah his preaching because he preached to men and not to Spirits I am perswaded that no man can preache to men and not to their Spirites because hee that teacheth a man instructeth his Spirit which is his reasonable soule And yet heere you may marke if it please you that there be two things heere spoken of preching prison the on pertayning to these spirits when they were men with spirits the other now that they are onelie spirits and that therfore the Apostle did discreetlie choose the name spirit which is common to both these tymes Lastlie you charge this construction with violēce for that we take the word spirit in one place for the Deitie of Christ and streight way againe for the spirits of men in prison I hope you will not denie but that the word is vsuall in both significations that it is no wrong to giue words their own significations when the drifts and circumstances of the place doth requyre them Hitherto I haue dealt with your objections against Beza Nowe I will proue with vnfallible reasons that your sense cannot stand with this text You take the word flesh onlie for the bodie of Christ which died and was buried and the word spirit for his humane soule which you beare vs in hand did descend into hell and did preach there to the soules that had ben disobedient and rebellious in the dayes of Noab If this your conceit shall go for current that which the Apostle speaketh heere of Christ may be verified as well of anie other man For when we die our soules die no more then his did But let vs look a little nearer the matter The spirit heere as it appeareth by the text doeth signifie that which gaue life to that that was dead That I trust was not his humane soule but his deuine and heauenlie spirit Thirdlie in this Participle mortified is comprised death which giuen to Christ is neuer taken in al the Scriptures for the temporal death of his bodie onlie but whatsoeuer Christ suffered either in soule or bodie for the redemption of our soules and our bodies doth compryse his whole passion Which if it bee true then the word flesh must be the whole subject of all this passion that is both his soule and body or the whole man Christ For hee suffered as well in soule for our soules as in bodie for our bodies or else he had beene but half a Redeemer Fourthlie seeing his bodie was quickned that is restored from the graue as well as his soule from hell If you take spirit heer for his humane soule then shal you confound those things that the Apostle doth distinguish attributing that to the soule alone which is commō both to the soule and the bodie Fiftlie seing quikned is to receaue life either which it neuer had or els had lost the soule cannot be said to be quickned because it neuer lost life after that it once liued with the bodie Heere you tell vs that quickened is to be deliuered from miseries and sorrowes Howe the English word may be taken I leaue it to the discretion of the discreete and indifferent reader But sure I am it will proue a hard thing to finde that signification either in the Latine word viuificari or the greeke word Zoopoteisthas which bee so mixed with life that if they signifie deliuerie from miseries then life it self must signifie miseries and sorrowes which though they follow on it are neuer signified by it If this deuise may stand you wil ouerthrow the Antithesis betweene dead and quickened For if quickned doth not signifie a restitution to life what contrariety hath it with mortefied or dead which signifieth the extinguishing of life Sixtlie spirit doeth heere signifie that which was free from death and the violence of his enemies This I hope you will not say was his humane soule wherein hee suffered the death of the soule that is the torments of Hell as well as in bodie the death of the bodie Seuinthlie the soule of Christ could not
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is spirits also is not as you take it for you say it signifieth the men in Noahs time but you can not bring one scripture to proue it Therfore I say as I said before it signifieth soules seperated from the body That my exposition is true I haue prooued by three Scriptures Ecles 12. 7. Heb. 12. 23 Act. 7 59. Now as mine is true so will I proue yours to be false impossible by Christs owne words Luke 24 59. where our Sauiour to proue himselfe to bee noe ghoste but to haue a true body after his resurrection thus reasoneth Behold my hands my feet that I am the same handle me for a spirit hath no flesh and bones as yee see me haue This was Christs argument I haue a body therefore I am not a spirit and so I reason against you and your teachers The men in Noahs time had bodies ergo they could not be called spirits Euery boy can tel you in Oxford that substantia is deuided into corpus and spiritum and that one of these opposite species can not be affirmed of another And therfore to be short when you can proue out of the new Testament that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is iournying is spoken figuratiuely of the deity or Pneuma that is spirit signifieth a man y â— hath a body I will giue you the goale but if you will runne on this course vntill you haue proued these 2. points which you must doo if you will haue me to recant then take heede least you run your selfe out of breath Lastly the word Phylake that is prison doth signify hel as it is to be sene Apoc. 20. 7. When a thousand yeeres shall be fulfilled Satan shall be losed out of his prison Thus thou seest good reader how I haue proued my interpretatioÌ„ out of the word of God for euery word which our aduersaries can not doo for their interpretation therfore thou maist safely assure thy self ours to be good and theirs to be false And that this word prison doth signify hell you may see Epiphanius Athanasius Fulgentins centuria 1. lib. 2. cap. 14. Peter Martyr on the Crede Nowell in his Catechisme Beacon in the sick mans salue Crowlev in his answer to the reasons of Pound the Papist All these old and new writers haue alleadged this Scripture as I haue done with good warrant and conscience Now that I haue proued this my owne interpretation I will by Gods grace proue your answere to be friuolous First you confesse that killed and quickned are Participles of one tense and yet you say they are not referred to Christ at one time this is meerlye false as I thus proue Christ was after his passion dead aliue or neuer if he were neuer dead and aliue at one time then Peter saith not truly if he were dead and aliue at on time then you speak falsely Now you your selfe confessed that he was dead and aliue at on time alittle before and proued it out of the 2. Cor. 13. 4. He was crucified concerning his infirmity yet liueth hee by the power of God Heere by your own woords Christ was aliue when he was crucified so may I say w t Pet. he was aliue when he was dead at one time Then you say the flesh signifieth the manhode and spirite the deitye this also is vntrue for the body may be killed but the soule can not Again shew me any Scripture where on and the sam word in on sentence and period is taken for diuers things for in this sentence In which spirite hee went and preached to the spirits that ar in prison Heer the word spirit in the beginning of the sentence signifieth the deity in the latter end the same woord signifieth the men that liued in Noahs time by your interpretation but by my interpretation it signifieth the soule seperate from the body in both places For as Cirill saith as Christ was with the liuing in body and soule so to shew himselfe a true man his body was among the dead bodies and his soule among the soules Then you auouch the preching of Noah is attributed to the whole Trinity be it so but can you proue that Christ after he was killed did prech in Noah for this preaching was after Chriâ—â—s death which is mentioned in the 18. verse and before his resurrection which is spoken of in the 21. verse You goe forward and tell mee that pote doth not determine the Participle apeithesasi that is disobedient but ekeryxen that is preached I must tell you plaine you speak neither like a Deuine nor a Gramarian For an Aduerb is some time put to a Participle as Math. 2. 7. Tote erodes lathra kalesas tous magous Then Herod calling priuilye the wise men Sometime to a Noune as homo egregie impudens Somtime to an Aduerb as parum honeste se gerit Therfore the Aduerb pote comming after apeithesasi next immediatly and being distinguished from ekeryxen by a Comma cannot by any example in diuinitye or by any rule of Grammer be coupled with the verb ekeryxen Now to answer your infallible reasons First your reason against me that if my construction bee true then nothing did happen to Christ which might not be verified of any man And did you not blush wheÌ„ you wrote these things Can any mans soule goe to hell and returne againe For his going downe to hell I proue in the 19. verse and his returning from hell in the 21. verse Secondly you say the word spirit doth signifie that which gaue life what then as God giueth life to the body effectually so the soule giueth life to the body formally Your Geueua translation which you follow saith hee was quickned in the spirite not of the spirit And this I note against your side en in the 18. verse you translate In But in the next verse as though you had not done well in the former you translate it by Now you know the preposition dia signifieth by and not en as it appereth in the 21. verse and in many places mo dia anastaseos that is by the resurrection Moreouer if you had said quickned of the spirite then had you made a probable answer but no diuine is able to proue this exposition that Christ was quickned in the spirit that is in the deity for the deity is life it selfe Your third pregnant reason is that thanatotheis signifieth not only the death of the body but also the whole passion of Christ This can not be for the suffrings of Christ are set downe before in the same verse then in this word thanatotheis is shewed the maner of the death that Christ suffered that is hee was killed and
suffered a violent death For thanatotheis being deriued of thanateo must needs signifie put to death Now I hope you wil not say Christ was put to deth in soul body but in body only And wher you say that Christ suffered in soule aswell as in body that is true that is gathered not of thanatotheis y â— is killed but out of these words antecedent for Christ suffered the iust for the vniust No reasonable man but hee will say that the sufferings of Christ are comprised rather in the word suffered then in y â— word killed To your fourth reason I reply that Christ was raysed from the dead but it is specially signified in the word resurrection ver 21. therfore I do not confound those things that are distinguished but your selfe for you make suffered and killed all one and quickned and the resurrection all one and so mak not only a confusion but a tautology and needelesse repetition which neuer was read in the word of God To your fift argument where you say zoopoiâ—isthai is to receaue life I confesâ—e it is to be made aliue Then you vrge it can not be spoken of y â— soule which neuer lost life Then by y â— same reason more strongly it can not be spoken of the Godhead which hath doth shal liue for euer for God caÌ„ not receaue life but y â— soule is said to liue when he is out of the body not because he liued not before but because y â— body doth hinder y â— actions of the soule Iohn 11. 25. He that beleeueth in mee though he were dead yet shall he liue Sap. 9 15. The corruptible body is heavie vnto the soule the earthie mansion keepeth downe the minde that is full of cares 2. Cor. 4 16. Therfore we faint not but though our outward man perish yet our inward man is dayly renewed Heere Paul sayth the weaker the body is y â— stronger is his soule therefore the death of the body is the life of the soule To drawe to ane ende your Antithesis of the Deuinitie humanitie is answered before For your Antithesis must be of things contrary or at the least diuers and seperate but as you affirme truly the Godhead was never seperated from the humanitie therefore this antithesis is of the body and soule which at this time were deuided and not betweene the deity and humanitie which were alwaies vnited wherfore this bulwarke I can assure you will stand and you haue ouershot both it your self in attempting to ouerthrow it For the very scope of the Apostle is this all Christians must suffer afflictions for well doing for Christ did not only suffer both in body and soule but also was put to a shamefull death in his body and in his soule went downe to the soules in hell which were vnbeleeuers in the dayes of Noah but Christ did arise againe from hel and the graue and ascended both in body soule to heauen therfore shal you that suffer for wel doing be deliuered from death and hel by his merits and goe vp into heauen and be partakers of his glory as you haue ben partakers of his affliction Moreouer as you referre mee to reade Bezas greate notes one this text so I pray you to reade Aretius handling this place whose words ar these Generally sayth Aretius Pet. repeateth three effectes of Christs death if you marke it wel The first pertaineth to the damned The second to the elect The third the person of Christ The first was declared in his descending in to hell The second in his resurrection The third in his ascention into heauen This is the true and naturall meaning of this place which wee will follow leauing the intrications of other interpretations I willinglye confesse this place is very hard for Augustine doubteth of it Luther douteth of it how it is to bee vnderstoode but this obscurity aryseth not of the place but of the varietie of interpretations If thou marke the plainnesse of the place the matter will be easye but that pleaseth not all men therefore that euery on may establish his owne sence they apply the words of the Apostle Peter to their owne conceit But leauing these let vs imbrace that which the words do teach vs in the which if we attaine to the truth it is well if not yet they shall bee probable because they haue warrant out of the scriptures and leane to the very letter to reto otherwise it is certain the knowledge of man to be vnperfect in many questions of holie scripture of the which the Apostle doth warne vs 1. Corin. 15. For now wee knowe vnperfectlie I haue sayd here is declared three effects of Christs death which differ in time are set in order in the Creede The first effect is that Christ being dead denounced eternal paines to the wicked in hell The words of the Apostle are these In which spirite he went and preached to the spirits detained in prison I take the place simply of the descence into hell for so the words do plainly sound and I see al the Fathers so to interpret them Augustine Epist 99. and Ciprian doth manifestly interpret this place of the descending into Hel. Neither doth the word prison hinder this Interpretation which in the Apocal. 20. 5. is taken for hel When a thousand yeers shal be fulfilled Satan shall be losed out of his prison Therefore the prison that Peter heere speaketh of is the place deputed to the damned Hyther came Christ as we confes in the Creede He went downe into Hell where Hell is it is a foolish curious question to enquire sith no man coÌ„ming to that place euer returned but only Christ Furthermore what Christ did there Peter expresseth he preached to the spirits that is he declared that he shewd himselfe manifestly to the world and made that dire and mornefull sermon namely to y â— wicked that the mirit of his death did nothing pertaine vnto them but by his presence were confirmed those punishments of the which Noah and other prophets had forwarned them And the tyme of this Preaching I referre not to the tymes of Noah but to the tyme of hys descending into Hell Wherevnto agreeth the worde pneumasi that is spirits for hee preached to the spirits that is to dead and not to liuing men Thus sarre Aretius I could heere alleage many other newe Writers whiche are of my iudgement but because you yeelde them no credite therefore of purpose I will omit them HVME his Reioynder to the 12. sect THis berrie is so confused that I can not finde where to enter my firret First I prooued that Beza whome we follow in this place doth no violence to the wordes but vseth them as hee findeth them vsed by Iohn Paull and Peter Which foundation beeing laide I answere your
10. reasons and put other 10. to the other scale to counter-weigh them You neither defend your owne nor answere mine in order as they ly But like a mad Dog snatch heere one and there another and let them goe that you cannot bite I cannot follow your steppes they be so crooked Wherefore I will walke on my first steppes and seeke your answeres where I can finde them That which I say of the vse of the words you confesse and diuers of my reasons you slip without an answere The first of my reasons was from these wordes mortified in the flesh and quickened in the Spirit Thus If flesh heere doth signifie the body and spirit the humane soule then nothing in these words is spokeÌ„ of Christ that may not be verified of other men But in these words some singular matter is attributed to Christ that other men are not capable of For we cannot say that Augustine Ierome or Cyprian are mortified in the flesh and quickened in the spirit in that sense as it is heere spoken of Christ Ergo flesh is not the bodie and spirit the humane soule of Christ That which you answere of his desceÌ„ding into Hell and returning thence is not comprised in these words wheron my argument is builded though you gaue them your owne liverie and cloathed them in your owne cullours The second was this The Spirit heer doth signifie that which gaue life to that which was dead But the humane soul gaue not life to that that was dead Ergo the spirit doth not signifie the humane soule Heere you denie the maior and alleadge against the 〈…〉 which you call ours and should bee yours as well as ours if you and others of 〈…〉 highlie 〈…〉 in the flesh and 〈…〉 mortified as hee was man and quickened as hee was God by himselfe According to that of Iohn I haue power to lay downe my life and I haue power to take it vp againe Take your note of in and by and make a wheele-barrow of it But you moue me heere another question of some importance and craue an instance if I can in all the Scripture Howe one word in one period can carie two significations You are not I hope so verie an novice in Gods booke as you make your selfe Haue you not read Let the dead burie their dead Or labour not for the meat that perisheth but the meate that lasteth c. Or Who so will saue his life shall lose it Or Abraham rejoiced to see my day and saw it Or God is a spirit and will be worshipped in spirit wher you haue the same word in both significations O howe you would be-slouen mee if you could finde such a hole in my hose Now I feare nothing but that you craued an instance out of the olde Testament The third was If death whensoeuer it is attributed to Christ in the Scriptures compriseth the whole passion the fleshe in this text must be the subject of the whole passion that is the whole manhoode of Christ But deth is neuer attributed to christ but for the whol passioÌ„ Ergo flesh must be the subject of the passion that is the whole manhood of Christ Heer you denie the minor and like a skilfull Logician giue instance in the questioÌ„ If you haue not forgot your olde logicke the argument and the thing argued should not be one You supplie the imperfection of this answere with two arguments 〈…〉 that death in this place cannot signifie the passion 〈…〉 Your first reson is that the passion is mentioned before in the word suffred Be it so Yet it may bee repeated in more speciall tearmes By your reason in the beleef where a repetition is lesse tollerable crucified and died belong not to the passion because they are expressed before in the word suffered Suffering which may be in torturing whipping and imprisonment is too slacke a tearme to expresse the hellish tormentes of Christs passion The other is if mortified pertaine to the soule and bodie it will followe that the soule is also mortall You tell mee out of Athanasius in the reply to my fift section that by the double punishment inflicted on Adam the soule should die the death And I heard you preach in our Ladie Church at Sarum That when it was saide to Adam thou shalt die the death the meaning was he should die the death of soule and bodie Now if you wil apply these two significations of death to Christ the one to the bodie and the other to the soule I hope this objection wil neither scratch nor byte My fourth reason was this In this Antithesis mortified in the flesh and quickened in the spirite morfied belongeth not to the spirit nor quickened to the fleshe but mortified belongs to the soule for it died the death of the soule and quickened to the 〈◊〉 for it receaued life againe Ergo flesh is not the bodie onlie and spirit the humane soule To this you answere that Christ was raised from the dead and that was signified in the word resurrection vers 21. and therefore you do not confound these distinguished things antitheticallie opposed But wee that make mortâ—â—ed suffered quickned resurrection all one How this may answere mee I leaue it to the â—ead that bred it to explane But you do vs wroÌ„g we make not mortified suffered one c. Suffered and quickned ar tearms more general mortified raised againe more speciall expressing things more plainlie and particularie which were touched before more covertâ—â— and generallie My fift reason was To be quickened is to receaue life which the thing that is quickened either neuer had or els had loste But the soule had life in the bodie and neuer 〈◊〉 after Ergo the soule cannot bee quickened To this you answere nothing but tell vs by the same reason it can much lesse pertaine to the Deitie Thus thinking to wound vs with our owne weapon you strike short and with the back drawe blood at your owne brow I told you in my answere to your second objection that quickened is not heer attributed to the Deitie but to the whole Christ by the participatioÌ„ of proprieties How can you excuse your self heere of wilfull falsification But you mend the matter with a more sufficieÌ„t answere out of Ioh. That the soule of the beleeuer liueth though hee were dead What then Iohn telleth not your tale that the soule of the beleeuer is quickened when hee is dead That it liueth is not the question The burden of the bodie which you alledge out of the book of Wisd loadeth the soule but killeth it not And therfore when it is deliuered of that load it is not quickened but releeued And the renewing of the inward man which you alleadge from Paule quickneth not the soule being dead but addeth courage and comfort to the living and languishing soule by Gods promises Heere I see you are quite thrust froÌ„ your hold at Chippenham that
participle ousi in that kind of phrase in Greek most necessarily alwaies implyed You reply not one worde to the purpose but charging vs with that we neuer spake nor thought that we take these spirits for the men in Noahs time you alleadge Christs words against vs Luk. 24. 39. But if you were a man that coulde marke the wordes of them that dispute against you take them as they are spoken you should finde that wee say not that hee preached to the spirites in the dayes of Noah But to the spirites that nowe are in prison and were disobedient in the dayes of Noah If you can anie waies turne Christs wordes in Luke to confute this you neede not to care what thinges you take vpon you to proue If you can proue that Noah preaching to the men of his time did not preach to their Spirites or that these spirits in prison which Peter speaketh heer of were not the same that rebelled in the dayes of Noah you may driue vs from this holde otherwise you may throw your cap at vs. Last of all you charge our construction with violence I answered that you do vs wrong charging vs with things that none of vs do speak Which answer you passe by with silence and so allow it for currant To these you haue added two new ones which to take away all scruple I will answere also First say you if the word phylake doth signifie hel then Christ did descend into hell But phylake doeth signifie Hell Ergo c. I denie the maior it will not follow though phylake doeth signifie hell as heere it doth indeed Metaphoricallie that therefore Christ descended into Hell neither doth the place that you quote of Math. proue that you would haue except you can proue also that phylake hath no other signification then the prison of vtter darknesse c. Your other reason is He that was killed dead and quickened did preach But it was Christ that was killed dead and quickned Ergo it was Christ that preached and not his Deitie Christ and not his Deitie M. Doctor Can Christ preach and not his Deitie You may say what you will If I had let fall such a word you would haue cried Crucifige But to answere you I denie the maior It is against the text He was mortified that is killed and dead in the fleshe and that preached not Hee was quickned in the spirite and in that hee went and preached That which preached was neither killed nor dead neither was it self quickened but Christ was quickened in it These are all your objections In my answere to your sermon I answered 10. of them You haue replyed to 6. of them and to the other 4. you haue giuen a pardon at large neuer to be troubled by you Your six replyes I haue heere rejoyned too and haue met your newe supplies at the encounter and haue sent them home to you for new help All your forces thus defeated and so mightie and resolute an armie against you if there bee anie conformitie in you if your neck be not so stiffe that no bridle can turn it I hope you will get you to Chippenhames pulpit and performe your promise HVME Sect. 13. THese things being thus I pray you good M. D. seeing you woulde haue vs vndoubtedly to beleeue that Christ descended into Hell Tel vs vndoutedly to what ende he should descend thither I trust you will not teach vs neither Augustine neither Ieromes lesson that he went thither to deliuer prisoners As for that new lesson that he went thither to triumph it standeth not with the maner of conquerours to shew the glorie of their conquest amongst the conquered but amongst them to whom the ioy of the victorie doth appertaine and for mine owne part I haue oftentimes read the name of Hell ioyned with shame and ignomie but to this day I neuer hard it ioyned with triumph and glorie Neither seemeth it probable that if Christ had purposed to shewe the pompe of his conquest he woulde haue done it before his resurrection lest being yet in the handes of his enemie he had meâ—t him with the proverbe Ante victoriam c. To these reasons may be added that seeing his triumph was celebrated at one instance in Heauen Earth and Hell if the presence of his soule was required as you beare in hand it will followe that his soule was at one instant in these three places which is contrary to the nature of a soule You adde two other causes to binde the deuill and deliuer vs from hel You bring vs many places of Scripture to confirme this geare Gen. 3. 15. The seed of the woman shal break the Serpents head Ose 13 15. O death I will be thy death O hell I wil be thy destructioÌ„ 1. Cor. 15. 55. O death where is thy sting O hell where iâ— thy victorie In all which places there is not a sillable sounding that Christ descended into hell As for his triumphing ouer Hell we neuer denied it and do avouch that he performed that moste gloriouslie by the power of his God-head which did present his victorie ouer his enemies hell and death both to heven earth and Hel without the presence of his soule HIL his Reply YOu aske me why Christ descended into hell and yet you coÌ„fes I noted three ends of Christs descending into hell the one to triumph ouer the Diuels the other to binde the Diuels and to take away their power ouer mankind the 3. to deliuer vs from hell There was also set downe a fourth end that is to manifest his death vnto those in hel and to reproue them of their incredulity and heer labouring to catch me in a snare you are fallen into it your selfe for firste you say Christ conquered hell on the Crosse then as hauing forgotten your selfe you aske this question with admiration Howe could he conquer being in the graue Is it likly that hee would triumph before his victory First you stoutly affirme that he had conquered then you boldly deny it CoÌ„neniet nnlli qui secuÌ„ dissidet ipse Next you say you haue not read the name of hell but ioyned with shame and infamie why do you write then that the Godhead did triumph ouer hel Did you not read your owne writing I am sure in this place 1. Cor. 15. 55. O death where is thy sting O hell where is thy victory The nam of hel is ioined with triumph But you answere these places with a flat negatiue heere is not a sillable to proue the descending of Christ into hell I am sure Paule proueth heer the resurrection of Christ and of our soules and how can he proue the resurrection vnlesse hee proue the knitting together of the body and soule for as death is the parting of body soule so resurrection is the reuniting of them togither againe and heer Paule
sheweth that the body comming out of the graue the soule from hell Christ did conquere both And therefore it is not the deity as you say but the humane nature of Christ y â— did vanquish death Hell Heb. 2. 14. For as much then as the children were partakers of flesh and bloud he also him selfe likewise took parte with them that hee might destroy through death him that had power of death that is the Diuil There fore Hemingius on the Col. 2. saith As on the Crosse he conflicted with the diuill so by the glorious descending into hell resurrection and ascention hee did triumph Therfore these places proue his descending into hell as well as the buriall for the reason of y â— apostle is this Christ cam out of the graue ergo he conquered death and Christ came out of hell ergo he ouer came hell Therefore thus I reason against you that did conquere which did fight but the human nature of Christ did fight ergo it did also conquere is gone vp into heauen to whom the Angels powers and mightes be subiect 1. Pet. 3. 22. Col. 2. 25. phil 2. 9. 10. Eph. 1. 20. 21. 22. Therefore sith all these Scriptures do witnes that Christ as man did triumph and is exalted and hath al power I doubt not but in your next answere you will reforme your iudgement HVME his Reioynder to the 13. sect I Beseech thee good Reader take a little paines heer to mark the honest dealing of this D. Whet I say Christ could not triumph beeing in the bonds of death hee for triumph sets conquer to make them contrarie to my former words that Christ did conquere Hell vpon the crosse It is one thing to coÌ„quere another thing to triumph Pompey conquered the mightie Mithridates in Syria but hee triumphed at Rome amongst his freends that were pertakers of the joy Againe where I say with Augustine that the name of Hell is joined with shame not with honour meaning the name of hell is shamefull not glorious he takes mee to say that the name of hell cannot stand in a sentence with a word of honour quotes against mee 1. Cor. 15 55. Hell where is thy victorie in which place hell and victorie are separated as if hee had saide Hell thou hast no victorie Thirdlie whereas I say that Christ triumphed by the power of his Deitie presenting his victorie to heauen earth and Hell he giues out that I say that the Godhead triumphed and not the humanitie notes in the margent Hume contrarie to Paule and Peter and wils mee to reforme this fault in my next reply This is M. D. arte If his cause were so good as he would haue it seeme he needed not this cunning or if he caried as honest a minde as he did protest in Chippenham pulpit hee would rather performe his promise then seeke such vn-christian-like shiftes to maintaine a bad cause Now to answere his cavils I ask you M. Doct. why you send Christ to hell notwithstanding the three ends that you had noted because those endes were no endes thereof and because the Scripture doeth teach that hee had performed all those ends by the conquest of Hel vpon this crosse You brought texts of Scripture to prooue them and I answered truely that not one of them soundeth anie sillable that way For in all those places there is not a letter neither of his descending into hell nor of his triumphing ouer hell You replie that those texts do proue the resurrection which is not true of all neither and that the resurrection is a knitting of the soule and bodie together and that the knitting of them together was by bringing his soule from Hell this is your principle and his bodie from the graue Now add the conclusion that hee that proueth Christs resurrection proueth his descending into hell If this reason bee good I will yeelde For now if it will holde you haue found a way to proue your opinion by all the Scriptures When Christ cured the blinde mans eies with spittle it is plaine that he was a man If he was a man he was mortall and died If hee died his soule went to hel this is your vndoubted principle and his bodie to the graue Ergo he that writes that Christ cured the blinde mans eies with spittle doeth write that hee went to Hell By this hooke you may pull all the Scriptures out at the window and make them proue what pleaseth you HVME his 14. Sect. YOu alledge for confirmation of the second How can a man enter into a strong mans house and spoyle his goodes except first hee binde the strong man Here is not that which you vndertooke to prooue that he descended into hell to binde the deuilles This house whereof here is spoken is to any man of judgments eye by circumstance of the place not Hell but this worlde whereof the deuill had taken possession and polluted many hearts out of the which he was cast by Christ who thereby prooueth himselfe to be stronger then he and not to woorke myracles in the name of Beel-zebub as the Pharises did beare the simple people in hand HIL his Reply YOur interpretation is true and the other true also for Christ did not onlie ouercome the Diuell in y â— world but also in Hell For as Cyrill noteth on this place there was before the comming of Christ much violence taking away the flock of God and carrying them to his owne house wherefore before the comming of Christ the heathen and people of the worlde went into eternall death But Christ hath deliuered both their bodies froÌ„ the graue and their soules from Hell by his death and personall descending into Hell This place is alleadged by one Georgius Princeps Anhaltinus in his learned commentaries on the 16. Psalm which you may read if you please For as Dauid trampled on the face of Goliah so did the soule of Christ trample on Satan in hell and trode on his face and this is noted by the Prophetesse Sibilla as also by the â—eathen Poets whose wordes I haue set down in my sermon at large And therefore Clenard in his grammer giueth this obseruation katelthonta eis adou id est eis otkian tou adou he went down into hell that is into the house of Hell HVME his Reioynder to the 14. Sect. YOu graunt my interpretation to bee true but I will not graunt yours except you bring better warrant then your self and a man that I neuer sawe You will mee to buy him I am not so well purst as to buy him onlie to see this that you quote him for my interpretation is defend-able without him It standeth so sure vpon the text that you confesse it your selfe You would faine shoulder in yours too and make the Scriptures double tongued but I haue learned that one text hath but one true meaning Though
might seeme to haue fled the brunt of your answere I am sorie that it fell out so For God is my witnesse I sought not mine own praise but did seek the truth Exâ—use my rashe enterprise in writing to you without anie acquaintance Let my loue of the truth which pricked mee for-warde and your challenge which set mee a worke excuse that fault if it was anie Far-well in the Lorde God giue vs al vnderstanding hearts Your freend though vnacquainted ALEXANDER HVME HIL his Reply Truth it is I did preach since a Leicock because I hard that M. Wisdome had set that opinion of yours abroche againe at Cosham I did heere also confirme mine Not because I am desirous to be contâ—tious but because I would haue no Christian man to doubt of the articles of his Faith you aske me what comforâ—able or necessarye matter you denye that wee doe preach I answere and I pray you consider oâ— it wee are borne in sinne how are we deliuered from sinne but by Christ which was conceiued by the holy Ghoste wee haue the magnitude of sinnes with Peter the multitude of sins with Mary Magdalen the turpitude of sins with the woman taken in adultery the infamy of sinnes with the Publican the diuturnity of sinnes with the theefe on the gallowes the cruelty of sinnes with paule and the recidiuation into sinnes with diuers of the Saints yet if wee repent wee are pardoned for Chrisâ—es sake who purely perfectly perpetualy obeyed the law of God By reason of our sins we ar subiect to al punishmeÌ„ts both corporal and spiritual and to the wrath of God All the punishments due to vs did Christ suffer vpon the crosse both in body and soul and therfore it is called his Passion He suffered in the Garden in Annas and Caiphas house in Pilats hal but vpon the crosse as you say truly he suffered the agonies of death tormenets of hell Further by reason of sin this was laide vpon the first Parentes Thou shalt die the death so by reason of this sentence not only the body was condemned to death but the soul to damnation To deliuer vs from these two punishments the soule of Christ went to hell and returned and the body of Christ that lay dead in the graue rose again mightily naturallye speedily and happely Beesides Christ rose in deede he gaue himselfe to be felte and handled herevpon wee are assured that he conquered death and hell He ascended into Heauen and therfore our praiers are hard when we pray vnto him and he giueth vs gifts for our ministry and so he shall come to iudgement at the last day to giue vs perfect blessednes You confess that Christ was borne in deede liued and fulfiled the law in the likenes of our flesh sinne excepted he dyed in deede he was buried in deede he rose and ascended in deede and yet you will not confesse that he personalye descended How can al these articles going before and comming after be vnderstode of the person of Christ and of his humanity not this Therefore you denying this personall descending of Christ into hell take away the greate comfort of our deliuerance from hell You say we are deliuered from hell by Christs death so are we too by his birth For if Christ had not bene borne he had not dyed so if there had not beene a seperation of the body and soule of Christ he could neuer haue conquered death or hell for by descending into the graue and that personally he conquered death hath deliuered vs from death by going downe into hell personallye he hath conquered hel And for this cause the scripture applieth it to the death of Christ because death was as Paul saith Phil. 3. A dissoluiton of body and soule And these 2. parts being dissolued Christ came from the graue and from hel and Christ did conquer both and triumph ouer them in him self as it is Col. 2. 15. These Jewes do aske asigne from heauen Math. 22 38. Luk. 11. 29. to whom Christ said A wicked and addulterous Generation doeth aske a signe but no signe shal be giuen them but the signe of Ionas the prophet for as Ionas was in the whales belly three dayes and three nights so shall the sonne of man bee in the hart of the earth three daies and three nights Which words Basilius Magnus interpreteth very wel These words a signe is a matter made manifest coÌ„teyning y â— declaration of some thing that was hidden as y â— signe of Ionas representeth y â— descending of Christ into hell and the resurrection of Christ and as Bede saith Rhab. also he gaue theÌ„ a sign but not from heauen because they were vnworthy to see it but from the depth of hel Therefore M. Hume this is a most comfortable doctrine that Christ doth deliuer vs from hell which albeit you agnise as well as wee yet because you deny the meanes where by it was purchased you deny a most comfortable doctrine for not only the body of Christ was in the heart of the earth but the son of man which signifieth the whole humanitye that is the soule and the body Ionas was in the whales belly aliue and yet came forth Christ was in the graue dead in flesh and aliue in hel and yet came forth Therefore to take away this maner of descending taketh away from the Church a singular comfort and openeth a gap to many errors confuted already by the Fathers For if Christ did conquer hel by the power of the Godhead only and not as he is a man what neede had he to take vpon him our nature but because as man he might be Lord not a heauen and the Angels but of the earth and of the inhabitants therof and of hell and the diuels You say the world is sory for me In the world saith Christ you shal haue affliction And he telleth me the world wil hate me I way not these things for I am noe man-pleaser nor lover of the world But if in my Sermon I had disagreed with Dauid Ezechiel Esay Peter Paule Christ himselfe 923 as you haue done in your an were I hope I should be both sory and ashamed Touching M. Chalfont whome you terme a man without iudgement and that he spake impudently and enuiously I neuer sawe him before that time and but once sence but by that speech and conference which I had with him I ford him to be learned and vâ—id of gail Such of his neighbours as I haue talked with did giue him y â— deserued praise of a learned and honest man And for asmuch as hee hath preached 926 sound doctrine in preaching the affirmatiue and that doctâ—in which is allowed by the learned conuocation of
this land it doth not become you to lible against him for in speaking against him you traduce al those reuerend and learned men which made an Iuiunction for keeping of vnitie that no other Catechisme should bee taught of any Schoolmaister then M. Nowels Therefore becaus you are a straÌ„ger you ought not to be pertergos speak euil of those Ministers which vphold the doctrine established and because you are a Scholemaister you ought to teache and not to gainsaye it Qui pergit dicere ea quae vult audiet ea quae non vuls as you reuile at M. Chalfont so doo you and your frends priuilye against me calling me a Bishop pling and a time-seruer Indeed I was brought vp vnder Bishop Iewell who catechised me in this saith therefore I will not easily or rashly depart from it I confesse my selfe also to be a timeserâ—er for it is the day and time of saluation accepted â—et them murmur with Martin that liste I pray God my dayes may end with this time and my time ma continue no longer then these dayes of the stated our Church that now is do continue I haue seene the begining I have seene the propagation of the Gospell I haue seene God hath deâ—ended our Church merciful miraculously from heauen God grant that I and all my Auditors may walk worthy of our calling Godly iusâ—ly soberly Therefore I end with this saying of S. Paule 1. Cor. 4. 3. As touching me I â—asse very little to be iudged of you or of mans iudgement and in the 5. verse Therefore iudge nothing before the time vntill the Lord come who shall lighten things that are hidden in darknes and make the counsels of the hart maniefest and then shall euery man haue praise of God HVME his Reioynder to the 17. Section TRuth it is that you did preach since at Leycocke not for contentions sake but to haue the laste word For hearing that M. Wisedom had broached his opinion at Cosham and had perswaded Christian men to doubt of the articles of their fatih so your words do sound you could not holde your fingers For my parte I am much in your favour For you were content to see mee misuse all the Prophetes Apostles and Christ himselfe and would not haue said to mee so much as black is my eie if some vnruelie tongues blemishing your credite had not set you a worke But blab it is and out it must You excused M. Wisedom of this fault in the beginning of your sermon at Chippenhame and accused him againe vnawares in the end of it In the last section you say that you spake that of Carlill Servetus and some that tolde you that Thomas Aquinas did insert this article and now againe vnaduisedlie you say heer that you preached againe at Leycocke after that you had heard of M. Wisedomes preaching at Cosham because you would haue no Christian man to doubt of the articles of his faith If this sermon to this end was need-full in your eies Then in your conceit M. Wisedome had taught men at Cosham to doubt of the articles of their Faith contrarie to your first sermon at Cippenhame and your laste section heere Carlil and Servetus did help to couer this slip before Now what cloak will you finde to hide this contradiction againe My simple head cannot sound into the depth of your excuses and therfore I leaue it to your self to prooue that this slip did leape ouer the hatch against your will Now you say that I do ask you what comfortable or necessary matter you teach that we denie To this with protestation praemised that I marke it consideratlie as though you woulde not let one sillable fall in waste you begin a long discours of the magnitude multitude turpitude c of our sinnes and of Christs paines for our pardon of his resurrection ascension and many other things which wee acknowledge as well as you all which while my eares prepared by your protestation did hearken for the promised comfort we teach not at length commeth out that we beeing subject to two great curses death and damnation Christ descended into the graue to deliuer vs from the one and into Hell to deliuer vs from the other This is right Parturiunt montes That Christ went downe into Hell is not our comfort Our comfort is that he hath deliuered vs from the bands of hell which we teach acknowledge as wel as you But if this your doctrine be true then is it false that Peter teacheth 2. 24. that Christ bare our sinnes in his bodie on the tree and his sacrifice vnperfect Wherefore to conclude magnus nugator magno conatu magnas nobis nugas parit But say you though we agnise this that is your tearm as well as you Yet because wee denie the meane thereof wee denie a moste comfortable doctrine The meane of our salvation was not his going down into the Hell of the damned which wee denye nor the laying of him vp three daies in Iosephs tombe which we confesse But his suffering in his innocent soule and bodie al the torments and miseries of hel and death which wee must haue suffered if hee had not stept in betweene vs and them I will not onelie say this after your manner but I will proue it so sufficientlie that you your self shall not gainesay it The meane of our salvation was the conquest of Hell and death But his going downe into the Hell of the damned and Iosephs tomb was not that conquest Ergo his going downe into the hell of the daÌ„ned or Iosephs tombe was not the meane of our salvation Another The meane of our salvation was that immaculate sacrifice that Christ did offer for our sinnes But his descending into the hell of the damned and Iosephs tombe was not that sacrifice Ergo his going down into the hell of the damned and Iosephs tomb was not the meane of our salvation Another There Christ redeemed vs where hee paide the ransome of our redemption But hee paide not the ransome of our redemption in the hell of the damned and Iosephs tombe Ergo hee redeemed vs not by descending into the hell of the damned nor Iosephs tombe Heer be three reasons in mood and figure against your comfortable doctrine which when you haue answered I will bring a whole armie of such mighty souldiers for the scriptures haue enough such to turne your comfort into murning and your joy into teares if it stand on no better ground then this But say you if all the articles going before the comming after bee vnderstood of Christs person then this article of his descending muste caâ—e the same sense But the first is true Ergo the last is also true This is a good argument but the conclusion is not for your hand If you had but one such for your maine-shot of descending a whole reame of paper royall would bee too little for your amplifications But
cannot pertaine to the Dei tie more then poreuesthai 400 Proprietie of speach allace sillie man see the answer 401 A vaine dreame 402 Doth anie of these places affirme your assertion 403 I haue quoted 8. and could hâ—ue quoted 20. see the answere But with what face can you challenge a place of me that is so vsed when you caÌ„ bring neither reason nor place to the contrarie 404 wil it but seem tollerable when I haue done then it is better alreadie for now it is a known truth 405 Your knowledge was but a ges and I haue be guiled you 406 I haue proued it both agreable and necessary which I needed not I stand at defence It was your part to proue which you cannot do if you had 7. wits as good as your owne 407 Ware sheep that is against the text that wherein he was mortified preached not 408 Christ and not this Deitie If I had saide so you woulde haue exclaimed vpon ignorance 409 I hope the soule wherin you say he preached was not killed 410 I neuer heard a reall sermon without words 411 That is out of the text 412 So is that also petitio principij twise together 413 You beg the question againe 414 Where when and to whome said I so 415 It followes not 416 These scriptures proues it not 417 You dreame that is not mine 418 You fight with your own shadow 419 That â—ollowes not A man may say as well D. Hill is a wrangling spirit as he calleth his aduersaries phantasticall spirits fol. 24. of his sermon and yet both he and they haue bodies 420 you shuld hane left this to the boyes in Oxford it is heere a deformed patch 421 You do well to holde you in that corner but I hope you will refuse not the Canonical scripture for al this 422 Then I see it bootles to hope for your promise 423 A narrow shift 424 The thing is true your proof is naught like al the rest 425 Hand-somlie in good sadnesse D. you cannot tell howe to settle your self to proue anie thing 426 Blush for shame se the answere 427 Vpon your vnsure gesse he were mad then 428 First you say that they take prison fâ—r hell you conclude that they al alleâ—dge this place as you do your pen runnes at random 429 Their conscâ—ence I hope was bettâ—r then their warrant 430 You haue promised that once alreadie 431 It was neuer denied what needs a confession in a known case 432 Now for your credites sake tell me wher Pet. saith that hee was dead aliue at one time 433 For sham M. D. speake truth 434 A tautalogie 435 But not when he was dead 436 You will say that with Peter which Peter neuer said 437 This word expresseth not the Greeke thana totheis 438 And yet the whole maÌ„ may be mortified 439 See the answere 440 Not so but the spirits that now are in prison 441 And so it was but not in hell 442 How proue you that 443 The death and resurrection of Christ his preaching in the dayes of Noah ar heer mentioned obiter and as occasions led them in expresseth not the order when they were done If this reasoning be good the passion in the beginning of the 4 cap. following the ascension expressed in the last verse of the third 444 But most commonlie with a verbe 445 This is like salue Domine I am glade to see you wel M. D. begins wâ—th greek out of the new Testament and ends in latine out of the English accidents 446 Euerie aduerb affecteth not the word it standeth by 447 Put out that comma it is an vsurper 448 Nor separated from it 449 That promise is twise made now 450 I said that nothing is spoken of Christ in these words mortified in the flesh quickned in the spirit which may not c. 451 Did you not blushe to rack my wordes to the whâ—le discourse which are spoken but of one member 452 No forsooth 453 those be without my bounds 454 those be without my bounds 455 That is the forme giueth the forme to the 〈◊〉 456 Why mine more then yours 457 So say we 458 En is not in that verse at all expressed 459 You dreame 460 You promise to proue that en signifieth not by proue that dia signifieth by this is coÌ„mon with you a cunning point 461 You say it cannot bee so taken and would that answere seme probable 462 A flat negatiue for an instance 463 A tautologie 464 I haue said that this worde fitteth not the greek 465 A Passiue participle froÌ„ a verb actiue 466 Why so 467 But I will say he suffered death in soule and bodie 468 But why not 469 What reason should moue a reasonable man to denie that Christ suffered the death of the soule 470 This will not answere my reason 471 A confused negatiue of confusion Put your antecedents to this therfore if your skill can do so much 472 where M. D. theÌ„ were I worthie to we are a bable A rogue burned in the ear suffereth but is not killed 473 where M. D. theÌ„ were I worthie to we are a bable A rogue burned in the ear suffereth but is not killed 474 Vntruth D. the scripture vseth manie tautologies to help our memories and vnderstanding though this in mens writingâ— be a fault in scriptures it is most necessarie that one place may help another 475 This answere were somewhat if you could make it good that we giue this participle to the Deity 476 The question is whether the soule is quickened or made to liue when it is out of the bodie 477 Non causa pro causa 478 These places proue not the question 479 These places proue not the question 480 These places proue not the question 481 Paull saith not so heere 482 It followeth not 483 The Antithesis there expressed is between mortified and quickned 484 But diuerse but not alwaies separate 485 This therefore is builded on the wrong side of the way 486 You call it in your margent fortissimum argumentum but it is a starued shrimpe It cannot stand though it be not touched 487 Be sure that that be one 488 That is out of the way Christs going downe to hel is no persuasion for vs to suffer afflictions 489 But you make no dout but that hel is vnder the earth in your sermon fol. Aâ— pag. 2. in print 490 You should waste winde and break your promise 1. Reason Answere Reply 2. Reasoâ— Answers Reply Iohn 10. 18. Math. 8. 12. Ioh. 6. 27. Mar. 8. 33 Ioh. 8. 55. Ioh. 4. 24. 3. Reason 5. Reason Answere Mat. 26. 41. 6. Reason 7. Reason Answere Reply 8. Reason Answere Reply 9. Reason 10. Reason M. D. reasons confuted and his answere displayed Answere Reply Rejoynder 2. Objection Answere No reply no rejoinder 3. Object Answere 4. Objection Answere No reply no Rejoynder 5. Objection Answere No reply
old which disproue your assertion for all these accord with mee Now to these will I adde also the iudgements of some new Writers Mollerus a very learned Minister of Germany on the 16. Psalme thus teacheth Christ would shew his victorie in a certain sort ouer the Diuells to strike perpetuall terrors in to them and to take away from vs the feare of their tyrānie To this agreeth Musculus on the sixtie and eight Psalme This GOD which was in Christ reconciling the world to himselfe first descended into the lowest partes of the earth then heeled captiuitie captiue and not onely wee are deliuered from the captiuitie of Satan sinne and damnation but al so triumphing ouer them as Tyrants he hath ascended aboue all heauens to fulfill all things The same learned Fathers interpreting the second Chapter of the Colossians thus hath There are some that bee perswaded it is an absurditie if it be sayd that Christ did triumph ouer the principalities and powers but if all chese things be attributed to God the Father that he did them with Christ and in Christ wee may truly reade heere triumphing ouer them in his owne person In like sort doth Hemingius expound this place in the second Chapter of the Colossians As by his death he conflicted with the Diuell on the Crosse so by his glorious descending into Hell Resurrection and Ascension he triumphed as it is Eph. 4. leauing his Crosse lift vp as a monument of his victorie So doth M. Fox vnderstād this place in a booke which he hath written entituled Christus triumphans Therefore in this behalfe you haue tolde a manifest vntruth wherfore I shall thinke you will scarce haue care to set forth the truth of God when you wil presumptuously vtter such an vntruth which may be reproued by so many honorable witnesses Farther here you leaue out at your pleasure two other endes of Christ descēding into Hel which I taught in my Sermon the one is the manifestation of his death the other is our deliuerance from Hell Playne dealing ought to be in this case and therefore I exspect it at your hands HVME his reyoinder If I will let you alone you will neuer afforde mee a good argument I see I must needes frame them my self Augustine and Ierome erring are not to bee praeferred to Calvine and Beza teaching a trueth But Augustine and Ierome doe erre in this controversie Ergo in this controuersie they are not to be praeferred to Calvine and Beza That Calvine and Beza doth teach in this point the truth you can not denie You will say perhapps that it is not the true meaning of the article That is the question But I hope you will not deny but the thing it self is true Now Augustine and Ierome do erre in the very thing it selfe Heere you fumble about an excuse and would faine say something But you had better say nothing then so little to the purpose You thinke that no man will denie but that the fathers had their deliuerie from Hell by Christ so thinke I too But what helps that these mens errour The one held that Christ went to Hell to delyuer the Fathers the other to deliuer whome he himself thought good Will your rotten Vernish hyde this blemish You tell me in the next sect that it doeth little or nothing pertaine to this question The question is about the descending of Christ into hell and this they make the finall end of that action Nowe if you can proue that the finall end hath no pertināce to the thing destinated to it though it bee but a question of arte I will acknowledge you to bee a better D. then you proued your self in Oxon. and a better artist then euer I suspected you to bee though I was reasonablie well perswaded of your skill before you shamed your selfe And yet I would haue you to marke if you can spare so much time as to marke anie thing against your selfe that this is a very materiall point in this question For this final end doth separate these mens opinion and yours They send Christ to hell to deliuer the Fathers and you send him to the hell of the damned where the Fathers neuer were They are so farre from you that Ierome saieth it is impium dicere Christum descendisse ad inferos locum damnatorum You spend the moste of this section to proue mee a liar If you could you might discredite mee but not the cause But I will crack this nut on yonr owne crowne Frst I said not that none of the Fathers denied that which you say I onlie saide that neither Augustine nor Ierome did send Christ to hell to triumph Secondly if I had said so I had said trulie For you send Christ to the hell of the damned and that none of them euer deemed Therfore in this behalf to vse your owne words you haue tolde a manifest vntruth of mee You father that on mee which I neuer saide and accuse mee for saying that which I might well avouche And heere I must put you in minde that if you will joyne with all or the most of them that you call forth to take your parte in this quarrell you must hyre workemen to repaire the ruinous walles of Limbus patrum that you haue shaken so sore and shiuered your self heer-to-fore with the mightie shot of Gods aeternall word HVME sect 4. VVHo so will see howe vncertaine Augustine was in this point let him reade his 99. Epistle to Evodius There shal he finde manie doubtes and almost nothing affirmed for certaintie but onlie that hee doubted not that Christ went to hell building on the words of Dauid cited by Peter Act. 2. Thou wilt not leaue my soule in hell c. Where I cannot chuse but muse what should moue so worthie a wit and such followers of him seeing it is apparant in the scripture that the original word doth signify as well the panges as the place of hell to passe by that signification which the whole church of Christ confesseth to be true and fall vpon that which hauing so weake proof had so great straites as Augustines deepe wit could not vnfolde Who so will see the name of hell vsed in the Scriptures for the sorrowes of Hell let him reade that of 1. Samuel 2. 6. The Lord killeth and maketh aliue he casteth downe to hell and bringeth vp againe or that of Dauid Psal 30. 3. Thou hast brought my soule out of Hell Or that of Ionas 2. 2. I haue called to thee out of the bottom of Hell And manie such like places where that word cannot signifie the pit of Hell whence there is no redemption but the hellish sorrowes which those Saints of God did suffer in this life Now seing this is so I wold fain knowe of you good M. Hill why wee may not more safelie take the name of Hel in that sense which you cannot denie then you in that which the better