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A53932 Sound doctrine, or, The doctrine of the Gospel about the extent of the death of Christ being a reply to Mr. Paul Hobson's pretended answer to the author's Fourteen queries and ten absurdities : with a brief and methodicall compendium of the doctrine of the Holy Scriptures ... : also of election and reprobation ... : whereunto is added the fourteen queries and ten absurdities pretended to be answered by Mr. Paul Hobson, but are wholly omitted in his book. W. P. (William Pedelsden); Hobson, Paul. 1657 (1657) Wing P1046; ESTC R30088 45,061 64

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And as many as were ordained to life or had acceptance with the King humbled themselves will you be so weak as to judge that their humbling was not before their choice though mentioned last in words when as 't is made a condition of their acceptance 1 Reas. Next you come to your Reasons in which you most unreasonably say That whatsoever comes to pass was before determined of God Oh impudence the height of blasphemie what every thing determined of God what if a man lieth with another mans wife or be drunk was that determined of God every thing was then these things were Oh! blush and be ashamed in maintaining such sordid opinions as these are 2. Reas. Secondly you say Whatsoever God doth for us in relation to heaven before Grace was wrought in us is done beforetime But Election or chusing of us is done for us before Grace is wrought in us Ergo The bold assumption of this foolish Syllogisme is most notoriously false being against the current of Scripture and those places you alledge for probation thereof do prove no more but that God loves us and hath given his Son to die for us even before we loved him and so he hath done for all But this is no chusing or Election such as you speak of from the rest but onely a general loving of all so as to endeavour their salvation by his Son Jesus Christ This shall be more fully cleered when I have done answering to your particulars when I come to speak of conditional Election made in intuition of our being in Christ and against irrespective decrees 2. Your second particular That God hath a special designe for the advancement of his grace and love to carry on by Christ for them and them onely is directly false and diametrally opposite to these Scriptures Mat. 9.13 Rom. 5.6 18 19. 2 Pet. 3.9 Ezek. 18.30 31 32. Chap. 33.11 and therefore I shall return no more answer to it his design being to work grace in all that he might save all though most will not receive grace and some receive it in vain 3. Your third particular being grounded upon the former false ones must of course be also false it self and so much for it 4. Your fourth particular That Gods designe was satisfaction for all sin and the purchase of eternal life c. If you mean he have purchased these things conditionally I assent to it and so he hath done for all But if you mean he hath done it for any other wayes then upon conditions performable by them then I deny it as most untrue according to the speech of our Saviour to his Disciples Matth. 6.14 If ye forgive not men neither will your heavenly father forgive you So that 't is to be noted that forgiveness is upon condition and also 't is to be noted that forgiveness and blotting out of sin is not properly in this life no other wayes then in a promise we may be said to be forgiven even as we may be said to be now saved see Act. 3.9 Sin being properly blotted out when there can be no more remembrance of it But now yet sin may be remembred against those righteous men that turn from their righteousness and all their righteousness shall be forgotten That which causeth you so plentifully to erre in your next particulars is your not understanding what Christ came to do you take it for granted I see that Christ came to do all the work for the Elect so that their sins are pardoned and they saved ipso facto and without any condition in them if that were true indeed that those he died for he had done so for them then his death indeed could not have been for all unless all should have been saved But 't is most evidently true That he hath not so died for any What the Father intended he should do by death that indeed he did finish and compleat viz. offer up himself a propitiatory sacrifice to God that he might open a way unto remission of sins and salvation for all but did effect it fully for none without themselves And because the greatest part of the errours of your book are founded upon this gross mistake I shall speak a few things more to it before I leave it although I have said enough already in a manner to a considering person first I will note wherein we differ in this point You hold that when Christ was offered upon the cross he took away put an end blotted out and utterly destroyed all his peoples sins for ever and presented them just righteous and holy before God now I for my part do distinguish between the cause and the effect between the time of the one and the time of the other but you jumble both together These things were done says your opinion whilst Christ was on the cross but I say they are indeed doing but are not compleatly finished till his second comming And now I will proceed to prove it which if I do not by plain and unwrested Scriptures then believe me not The first place is 1 Cor. 5.21 He hath made him that knew no Sin to be Sin for us that we might be made the righteousness of God in him This Scripture was wrritten by Paul after Christs death now note here he hath made him sin that we might be made righteous he hath been that we might be past in him and to come in us he is sin in us first we are righteousness of God in him afterwards his being sin for us is the cause our being righteousness is the effect A second proofe is Tit. 2.14 He gave himself for us that he might redeem us from all iniquity and purifie c. Note here also that Christs end in giving himself was that he might purifie and cleanse c. and we are cleansed but in part then his end is acomplished in part but when we are cleansed throughly then his end is wholly acomplished he shall first travel and afterwards shall see of the travel of his Soul Isa. 35.11 A third proofe is Col. 1.12 21. You that were enemies he hath reconciled in the Body of his flesh through death to make you holy unblameable and without fault in his sight from whence doth appear plainly 1 that Christs death was then past 2 that their spirits were in part reconciled then 3 that their being without spot was yet to come A fourth proofe Eph. 5.25 26.27 where note he gave himself for his Church that he might cleanse it with the washing of water by the word and that he might present it not having spot or wrinkle c. Minde it he gave himself that he might cleanse 2. cleanseth that he might present spotless c. First he in love gives himself second he cleanseth by his word third after clensing he presents it without spot or blemish but spotlesness is not before but at the appearing of Jesus Christ as you may see yet further in 1 Cor. 1.7 8. That ye may