wilt not leave my Soul in Hell. And it is therefore put last or mentioned after his Death and Burial Ham. Act. 2.27 to shew that it was the greatest and sharpest part of Christs Sufferings 3. Moreover for the order of expressing it I meet with the very same Luke 16. 23. The rich man dyed and was buried and when he was in Hell c. No doubt his Soul was in Hell before his Body was in the Grave and yet his Burial is put first by our Saviour and his Soul-sufferings afterwards as being onely a higher and farther degree of Misery So in the Creed it is said or in the Article Christ was Dead Buried and descended into Hell or suffered in his Soul Hellish Torments as the sense of Gods Wrath the loss of Gods sight and presence for a time due for our Sins Not that his Death was before his Sufferings in his Soul but these are mentioned last as being the greatest far greater than the Death of the Body and the highest degree of Christs Passion and Humiliation And to Conclude otherwise as that Christ could not or did not suffer in his Soul these Hellish Torments before his Death or Burial because mentioned after both is all one as if you should infer that never any went to Hell before they were Buried because it is said in that fore-mentioned Text That the Rich man Died was Buried and when he was in Hell c. which were a gross Error and contrary to Scripture Nay then it will follow that the Soul cannot go to Hell so long as the Body remains unburied an inference so absurd that a man of any Reason or Religion will neither make nor own it What say you Tim. are we over this stile Tim. Pretty well Thanks to you for the good lift you gave me but there is another yet behind as hard to clamber as the former at which I doubt we shall both stick Tit. Never fear it man I 'le heave with both hands but I 'le have you over now we are come thus far What is it Tim. Seeing these words He Descended into Hell are so dubious and have caused such a Cortroversie why are they not wholly left out of our Articles and Creed Tit. I see you were more afraid than hurt for your frightful Objection is dwindled into a little Question this Bar is so low you may almost go over without help were you not so very weak However that I may not leave you behind know first that every thing that is a Controversie is not an Heresie either in matter of Doctrine or Faith and therefore not presently to be Expâ—nged out of our Creed And since it hath been received by the Church in all Ages since the Fourth Century as Bellarm. tells us and being rightly understood contains in it a truth according to godliness yea necessary to be believed unto Salvation as the Sufferings of Christ in his Soul and continuing in the state of the Dead for a time I say it being so antient and rightly understood so necessary we may not leave it out but retain it to the Edification of our Faith and Consolation of our Souls Sâ—condly If because there hath been some difference or dispute about the meaning of this Phrase in our Creed or Articles we should presently abandon it by the same Rule we must expunge many Texts of Scripture out of our Bible as those that concern the Doctrine of Election and Reprobation Free-will Falling away from Grace c. Controveried by Learned men on both sides and of different Perswasions This is no Rule for putting out of the Articles of our Faith therefore barely because Controversies have risen about the meaning and sense of it But I have been too prolix already therefore let us dismiss this Point Tim. No I am so well satisfied that I must entreat you to give me the Sum of what you said as brief as you can for my Memory is very short and I would fain retain somewhat if Possible Tit. The short then is this There are I say these two different senses of these words He Descended into Hell. Some thereby understand literally a Local Descension into the Place or Which is the Opinion of some of the Antients and all the Papists State of the Damned to conquer the Devils and so set free those Souls that were kept in Hell till Christs Descension Others understand no more than a further degree of Humiliation then his Death and Burial Namely the continuing under the Power of Death for a time or of the Sufferings in his Soul on the Cross whereon our Blessed Saviour was humbled usque ad Inferni tremenda tormenta or endured for a time those Torments Quae reprobi in aeternum sensuri sunt Which the wicked shall Eternally suffer in Hell. As the loss of the sense of Gods favour the Malediction or Wrath of God in his Soul which is Hell or that Fire which shall never be quenched In which Christ himself for a time was scorched for our Sins And therefore This is the Opinion of some Fathers and most of our Modern Reformed Divines may truly enough be said To Descend into Hell. These Brother Tim. are the two senses which of these now do you apprehend the most agreeable to Scripture and the Analogy of Faith Tim. The latter clearly Tit. Then we have done with this your satisfaction being all I aim at in this Discourse Tim. No there is one little Question more comes into my mind though I question whether you can Answer it Tit. It may be not for you know the Proverb Tim. But let 's hear it Tim. Why did not our Bishops when by His Majesties Command at his first Return they inspected the Common-Prayer and Corrected some things in it put some gloss upon these words in the Creed that we might not have been in the Dark as to their sense of them which now we are Tit. It had been very easie for them to have done it and why 't was omitted I can give no reason unless it was either because we should not know their Opinion or because it may be they were divided in their Opinions about it Or else that they would not assume the Honour of doing all that was needful to be done of this Nature but leave som ethings to their Successors among which this may be one And in the next Edition or next Generation God grant the Liturgy and Bishops to stand till then you may expect it Tim. 'T is well Reply'd I will inquire no further Let us proceed Article IV. Christ did truly rise again from Death and took again his body with Flesh Bones and all things appertaining to the perfection of Mans Nature wherewith he Ascended into Heaven and there sitteth until he return to Judge all men at the Last Day Tit. The principal intent of this Article are the Resurrection Ascension of our Saviour with his Coming to Judgment in either of which I confess I
Pompin by chance and fortune that God hath no hand or providence in the dispensation of either Consequently all ground and reason of Thankfulness or Humiliation towards God vanisheth since he is not to be owned either in the good we receive or the the evil that we suffer What think you of these things Tim. These are sad indeed Tit. Yet true and natural Inferences from your Doctrine and if you would speak out you must own it As a Divine of our Church once did when being exhorted by a Person of Quality to give God thanks for his good Providence in raising him to such a Preferment replied to this purpose Providence saith he thank my Money and my Friends for without these I had gone without it for all Providence Are not these trusty Lads to their Subscriptions of our Articles Tim. Enough of this Sir I have done Let us go on to the next Artic. 2. The Son which is the Word of the Father begotten from everlasting of the Father the very and Eternal God of one substanee with the Father took mans nature in the Womb of the blessed Virgin of her substance so that two whole and perfect Natures that is to say the Godhead and Manhood were joyned together in one person never to be divided whereof is one Christ very God and very man who truly suffered was crucified dead and buried to reconcile his Father to us and to be a sacrifice not only for Original guilt but also for actual sins of men Tit. This is another Article you and I have subscribed to and profess to own and have promised to maintain Tim. And good reason for I see nothing in it but what is sound and Orthodox and he deserves not the name of a Christian that says otherwise Tit. I am of your mind yet I fear you have cracked some part of it in your elaborate discourses ex tempore To try you I will only crave your Opinion of one little branch of it What think you of Original Sin Tim. I take it to be only a privation of Original Righteousness Tit. Now I know whereabouts you are You are one of those subtil Gentlemen who subscribe the Articles of the Church of England and when you have done preach the Doctrines of the Church of Rome and Canons of the Council of Trent This is very pretty â— a Popish Priest may do as much But we Council of Trent Sess Can. 6. will debate farther on this in its proper place under Artic. 9. which speaks as plaiâ— English in this point as ever Article did Go on therefore to the next Artic. 3 Tim. As Christ died for us and was buried so also it is to be believed that he went down into Hell. Tit. Here is something in this Article will take up a little more of our time than ordinary because it is a matter of weight and what I know you and I much differ in Tim. What can that be 't is all mighty plain to me Tit. No doubt since you never read it before but when you have considered it as oft and throughly as I have done perhaps you may hesitate as well as I in what sense we are to take the latter part of it viz. So also it is to be believed that he went down into Hell Pray what is your sense of it and how do you teach people to understand it Tim. That Christ did personally and locally go down into Hell that is into the place or state of the damned to suffer there to conquer and overcome the Devils in their place of residency and to free those Souls that were detained in Hell till Christ's descension thither Tit. I know some of the Ancients and all the Papists are of this opinion yet I confess 't is not clear to me nor do I find any reason to think our Church intends this sense in her Article And if you will have patience with me I shall give you my Reasons for it Tim. I will exercise what patience I can but pray be brief Tit. As briâ—â— as the weight of the matter will give me leave To explain the Terms of the Article a little He went down or descended To descend is properly to go down by bodily motion from an higher place to a lower But in a borrowed sense or speech it signifies a change of state from better to worse from greater to meaner as Isa 47.1 Come down or descend and sit in the dust O virgin daughter of Babylon into Heb The word here Englished Hell in the Hebrew is Sheoâ— in Greek 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 And this I find is taken four ways in Scripture For the grave or place of the dead 1 King 2.6 For the power of death or state of the dead appointed to all men good and bad as Psal 89.48 For extreme humiliation or abasement or such sorrow and pains as may be compared to hellish sufferings 1 Sam. 2.6 Psal 18.5 and for the place and state of the damned Luke 16. 23. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and when he was in Hell. Now in which of these senses do you take it Tim. In the last as without doubt our Church intends it Tit. That is not in any or all the three first viz. the grave the power of death or extreme abasement and hellish sufferings but in the last namely that Christ descended into the place of the damned suffered in the same flames wherein the rich man cries out he was tormented and wherein the Devils themselves and damned Spirits have suffered do and shall suffer for ever Tim. Yes I believe so and shall never believe otherwise Tit. Perhaps you may when you have heard what I have to offer to the contrary which now follows 1. It is not clearly recorded as all other parts of our Belief are in Holy Scripture that Christ did locally and personally descend into the place and state of the damned For the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 taken in this sense occurs but once in all the New Testament viz. Luk 16.23 which is not spoken of Jesus but of Dives Nor doth the word there signifie the place of the damned from the force or propriety of it but from the circumstances which are there noted For Dives is not simply said to be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in inferno seu Gehenna but in torments and flames Moreover the Evangelists who have professâ—dly delivered to us the whole History of our Saviour from his Incarnation to his Ascension have not made the least mention of his descention into Hell in this sense Tim. Surely you are mistaken Tit. Discover where And I cannot conceive they would have omitted it had Christ done it or had it been necessary to salvation to believe it Particularly St. Luke writes nothing of it in his Gospel in his Preface to which he tells Thâ—oâ—bilus That he would write to him in order of all those things whereof he had perfect understanding Luk 1 3. And St. Paul rehearsing certain chief Heads
in order of Numbering which still comes between Six having Six before it and Six after it continually and so our Sunday our Day of rest hath and therefore we also rest the Seventh Day dim I deny it ours is the first not the Seventh Tit. And the Seventh as much as the first the first of our Week and Seventh after Six of Labour Indeed the Period from which we take the beginning of our Account is not the same but another from the Jews for they did Reckon from the beginning of the Creation and so forward we from the Resurrection and so forward but ours is as truely and surely the Seventh as theirs though Reckoned from another Period and as for the Period whence the account must be made we have no word at all in the Precept For the Precept saith not Six Days from the Creation thou shalt labour and the Seventh from the Creation is the Sabbath of the Lord but Six Days shalt thou labour nor doth it say The Lord blâ—ssâ—d and Sanctified the Seventh Day from the Creation but the Sabbath Day that is the Seventh after Six of labour Tim. And what do you understand by all this Tit. I understand what I suppose the Article Enjoynes by Requiring every Christian to yield obedience to the Commandments and so to this Fourth among the rest viz. That you and I and every Christian is oblidg'd by vertue of this Command for ever to rest every Seventh day after Six from all labour Recreation c. and to Dedicate it in Solemn manner wholly to the worship and Service of God by preaching Reading Praying and other Holy Religious Duties and Exercises both iâ— Publick and Private Consider this a little and give me your thoughts Tim. I need not much time to Study I have in the Company I have been Conversant with some Clergy men as well as others heard the Sabbath so Decryed and the strickt Observation of it so slighted and vilified that I thought there was little in it more than another day But for the future I hope I shall be more diligent in preparing for it and more strickt and serious in the Observation of it than ever I have been Tit. You will do very well and to endeavour to bring it into greater esteem and veneration with the people wherever you come for the life of all Religion amongst us consists in a due keeping this day and believe it our own practice in this regard will prevail more than our Preaching Inasmuch as Examples are of more force with men than Precepts And 't is our Obedience to Gods Commands which must evidence the sincerity of our Faith contained in the Creeds mentioned in the next Article Article VIII The three Creeds Nice Creed Athanasius Creed and that which is commonly called the Apostles Creed ought throughly to be received and believed for they may be proved by most certain warrants of Holy Scripture Tit. Touching this I think I need not question you for though you never see them in the Articles before yet you have often Read them in the Common-Prayer and I suppose with hearty assent to the Articles of Christian Faith contained in them Tim. I do so Tim. Let us therefore hear the next viz. Article IX Original Sin standeth not in the following of Adam as the Pelagians do vainly talk but it is the fault and corruption of the nature of every man that naturally is ingendred of the off-spring of Adam whereby man is very far gone from Original Righteousness and is of his own Nature inclined to evil so that the flesh lusteth always contrary to the Spirit and therefore in every person born into this world it deserveth Gods wrath and damnation And this infection of Nature doth remain yea in them that are regenerated whereby the lust of the Flesh called in Greâ—k 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which some do expound the wisdom some sâ—â—sualâ—ty some the affection some the desire of the flesh is not subject to the Law 〈…〉 And althouâ—h there is no condemnation for them that Believe and are Baptized yet the Apostle doth confess that conâ—upisence and lust hath â—â—â—sâ—lf the natuâ—e of sin Tit. If I remember right at Reading the second Article you discovered your self a liâ—tle infirm and faulty about Original sin calling it only a privation of Original Righteousness what think you now Tim. I think if I had Read this Article I should never have Subscribed it nor do I believe it now I have Subscribed it Tit. What nothing no part of it Tim. Truely very little a very small part of it Tit. Do you believe the Scriptures if you do I see no reason why we should not believe this sound Article of our Church even every shred and Syllable of it For 1. It asserts that there is Original sin which is called sin Rom. 7. 8. The sining sin Rom. 7. 13. The sin that dwelleth in us Rom. 7 20. The sin that so easily besets us Heb. 11. 1. The body of sin The body of Death The Law in the Members It is also called Fâ—esh The old Rom. 7. 23 24. Joh. 3.6 Rom. 7.5 Ro. 7. 25. King. 1.8 38. Heb. 12. man. The Law of sin The plague in ones own heart And the root of bitterness Besides the woful effects we find of it in our selves proves it As blindness in the mind darkness in understanding rebellion in the will c. with unholy and unclean affections proneness to sinful and aversness to Holy and Godly Actions 2. Next this Article teacheth us that this Original corruption remains in every man even in the Regenerate and this St. Paul acknowledgeth at large in Rom. 7. and Gal 5. 17. He saith the Flesh lusteth against the Spirit so that we cannot do the things we would And St. James Every Jam. 1. 14. man is tempted when he is drawn away of his own Lust And the best of Gods Children bewail the remainder and indwelling of this Lust and Corruption doubtless therefore our Church is right thus far 3. And also in saying in every person born into the world deserves Hell and Damnation for if it be sin as hath been proved already it can deserve no less Rom. 1. 18. Colos 3.5.6 Jam. 1.15 Ro. 6. 23. So that I can find nothing in this Article but may go down very well if Arminius or Socinus hath not turned your Stomach against it Tim. It can never enter into my Head that Adams sin he being but one should defile the Universal Nature Tit. I thought Socinus was in your Belly before now he looks out at your mouth Adam 1 Cor. 15. 47. Ro. 5. 12. 17. had in him the whole Nature of mankind and by his one offence the whole Nature was defiled Tim. Adams sin was not voluntary in us we never gave gave consent to it Tit. There is a twofold will Voluntas Naturae the whole Nature of man was represented in Adam therefore the will of Nature was sufficient to convey the