sinning and so never sin But if thou say its impossible so to resist and that he must needs give way to temptations and so commit sin Then is this not to be counted a sin which thus is not willingly committed but as an enforced passion and is of the same accompt with a Rape which a woman may suffer without any guilt of sin section 52 T.L. Whether though none of our Hearers in this life either are or can be free from the reliques and remainders of sin Ro. 7.23,24 yet whether many of them are not perfectly freed from the condemnation of sin Rom 8 1 33,34 yea so far from the dominion and power of sin Rom 6 14 that though sin be in them yet they are not in sin but that we may comfortably believe that testimony of them which the Scripture gives of Iob Iob 1 1. That they feare God and eschew evil And that notwithstanding their human frailties and infirmities yet neverthelesse their hearts as the heart of Asa was are perfect all their dayes 2. Chron. 15.17 so perfect as to be sincere and upright Answ Concerning the righteousnesse and perfection of your Hearers I Answer That by their fruits they are known And if they be not free from sin then not dead to sin and so under the Law and not under grace Rom. 7.6 Rom. 6 18 22 In Rom. 3 23,24 Paul declareth his warring estate at which time he was carnal sold under sin verse 14 brought into the captivity to the law of sin verse 23 At which time he also cryeth out Oh wretched man that I am who shall deliver me from the body of this death But the same Paul in other places doth witness a far different estate from this for thus he saith When we were in the flesh verse 5 Ye are not in the flesh Rom. 8.9 For the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death Rom. 8 2 How can we that are dead to sin live any longer therein Rom. And if Christ be in you the body is dead because of sin Rom. 8.10 See also Rom. 7.6 From these and many other places that might have been alleaged it is most evident That Paul in this seventh Chapter to the Romans treateth of his warfare of the condition he then was in while yet he was not wholly dead to sin nor had yet obtained the victory over the carnal part and so was not yet delivered from under the thunders and tempest of Sinai's condemnation section 53 T.L. Whether any of you received the mystery of Christ by Revelation the same way that Paul did who received it by Christs speaking to him in the Hebrew tongue compare Eph. 3.3,4,5 with Acts 26.14 Answ This seemeth to me a very silly quaere as though the language in which God speaketh when he calls any one to the Ministery or other service were of any consideration or moment as in respect to the validity of such a Call and authority thereby received Let the Reader compare these two Scripturers in the quaere and he shall find the latter end of this question yet worse than the beginning section 54 T.L. Whether those faithful men at Ephesus to whom Timothy committed those things that he had heard of Paul 2 Tim. 22. and 3.14 And whether those Elders that were ordained in Creet by Titus whom Paul left there for that purpose Tit. 1.5 might not be truly stiled Ministers made by Jesus Christ i. e. by Christs appointment though they were not Apostles Prophets or Evangelists Answ 1. To that of Timothy I Answer 1. They were to be faithful men 2. It follows not That this committing of things heard c unto them did make and constitute such men ipso facto Christs Ministers 3. Timothy was able to judge who were fit and able To teach others also Did such a man or men as Timothy was give any of you commission to teach others Of this before Answ 2. Neither doubt I but Titus had good Authority to Ordain those Elders so as the place importeth And had your Ordainers as good also I should as little doubt theirs too Answ 3. If your Ordainers had Ordained such Ministers as Paul there describeth and appoints to be Ordained Tit. 1.6,7,8,9,10 I believe I should readily own and embrace them For such had been blameless sober just holy temperate and not given to Filthy Lucre c. which are such vertues and graces we cannot yet see in any of you no not though we stand never so near you Whereas the contrary vices are so vigorous in you that you yield a bad scent wherever you come with them that have senses incorrupt to smell it Answ 4 And is it not rather to be said That this ordaining of Elders was not a constituting of Ministers simply but an assigning or appointing of them that were such before to some new and special or particular charge or service The word is as well if not better englished Settle Place Also this sence the cohering words do favour In every City He saith not of such or such a place or Church nor yet Elders simply Finally It 's here to be remembred what kind of Ordination was in use in those Primitive times For this see Sect. 3. section 55 T.L. Whether Christs promise That he would be with his Apostles unto the end of the World Matth 28.19,20 can be any otherwise made good then in his being present with ordinary Pastors that should succeed in the Church to the end of the world Answ If the place be so to be understood as the Quaerent taketh it then where were those Pastors and Successors to the Apostles and how was God with them for so many hundreds or years even during all the time of Popish Apostacy which began even in the Apostles age But your main business is to prove your selves to be true Pastors of Christ which ye never can do so long as ye continue Hirelings See Iohn 10.12 section 56 T.L. Whether ordinary Pastors and Teachers are not as well said to be given for the Work of the Ministry c as well as Apostles Prophets Evangelists Eph 4 11,12 and that till we all come to the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ vers 13. which is not cannot be till the end of the world compare Ephes 4.11,12,13 with 1 Cor. 12.28 Answ 1 I deny your distinction of Pastors into ordinary and extraordinary taking the word Pastor as distinct from Apostle c This is your case ye are asham'd to claim to your selves the name of Apostle or Pastor in a Scripture sense which you seem to call extraordinary This one name therefore ye craftily divide into two that being driven from the possession of the one i. e. exttaordinary ye may yet as a reserve have the other to flye to imitating herein after a sort those Spirits that being commanded to go out of the man prayed they might have leave
for them and go when he bids them go or all the while they are before him or elsewhere do they do him any harme in Body Goods or Name Did they ever break prison or escape out of Custody And for all those injuries they received suffered at the Magistrates hands which for multitude cannot be numbered did they ever so much as seek for satisfaction or amends against him Now name ye unto us on the other hand of all your Party one only man if you can whom ye may dare to match and parallel with these men for true Christian meekness and patience so bearing all kind of wrongs and as touching the Magistrate and Authority for very friendliness and exact obedience These of all men else in the world can better take wrong then give it Matth. 18.22 These are they alone that can forgive their brothers offences though again and again repeated though even unto seventy times seven they do at length amount In these finally now after long death and utter oblivion is the true Christian spirit and perfect mind revived again and unto mankind restored No marvel is it then if they hear like slanders and reproaches and the same entertainment do find and â—eel with the men of the world as also their Lord and Example Christ Jesus did before them He before them was accused to have a Devil to break and subvert the Law and Religion to have spoken blasphemy and many like crimes and misdemeanors to be guilty of And the servant is not above his Lord neither must the Disciple expect to fare better then his Master did before him But it 's like you intend their not putting off the hat and refusing to swear to be this opposition and rising up against Authority c. if so then it seems by your account that Mordecai also a far better Jew than any or your Sect are Christians was guilty of like opposition and rising up against Authority for that he in like sort refused to bow to or to rise before or to do any reverence at all to Haman the next man in dignity degree to the King who also had commanded Mordecai that he should reverence Haman and that under such a penalty as threatned death to no fewer then to all the Jews in his Kingdom But I ask What is Authority the worse or how is it more empaired by a mans keeping on his Hat before the Magistrate then if he should put it off Suppose that no man at all would put off his Hat to another shew us now what mischief or harm would by this means befall Authority especially if they were in all things else equally obedient and conformable to Authority as are the people called Quakers Again what is Authority the worse if men will not swear at all Can civil Authority at no hand subsist without mens yeilding obedience to the pride of man and disobeying the Law of God Now so confident I am of our cause that to your own very conscience I appeal to say who they be that oppose and rise up against Authority both in Church and State whether your â—riends or ours Yours at mid-day and in open place doubt not to strike kick pull hale drag and imprison men of rare innocency and of excellent vertues that unto them had done no violence that do not provoke them so much by any unseemly word or gesture that being harmed of them do no harm to them again finally that expose themselves also both unto all these yet farther sufferings for their souls good who thus misuse them And all these things have your friends doue without either Judge Witness or so much as Accuser Tell me now what is this to be deem'd but a kind of Rebellion and broad-fac't Contempt against the Laws of this Nation and the Magistrate thereof But what had these sufferers done even this Something being revealed to them from the Lord they spake the same in all soberness he that first spake having ended his speech and this in obedience to the Lord and according to the Scriptures 1 Cor. 14.29 30,31 And again are not they the very men that oppose Authority in Christs Church who break his Laws and Commandments daylie who drink down iniquity as an Ox drinketh water and glory in their shame and such be most of your friends and followers Are these men like to be such great friends unto and supporters of the Churches Authority Indeed without these your Synagogues cannot stand T.L. Where are those warlike preparations where those conspiracies for devouring of them that differ from us in Religion Ans Read but the Relations of the late Wars in Scotland and specially of Christopher â—…oves â—onspiracy and there shalt thou find where the warlike preparations were Read also the Law or Bill made and contrived by the Assembly of Divines so called and by rhem recommended to the Parliament and there wilt thou find the conspiracies for devouring of them that differ from you in Religion Moreover what may we term those many Petitions that by the men of your order were not long ago sent to the Parliament surely the aim and intent thereof was for devouring more persons than only James Nayler and his Adherents let the effects thereof be witness Look also on the children that since are born and deny if thou mayest That a Priest was their Father Who can it doubt that shall have once viewed and noted well their faces So full of black lines they be and signatures of malice verily their sullen and mischievous countenance will not bear to be guessed that they came and took nature of other blood then which runs in your very veins Pilate indeed condemned Christ but 't were the Priesthood that laid the plot aforehand These these were the men that not only as Authors did devise shape and prescribe to others the means method and order of betraying and killing Christ but also as Actors themselves they did and executed many things against him These ministred as it were to the Ship in which was imbarqued this so nefarious design both Wind for the motion and Art and Counsel for the steerage thereof and conduct Be they any whit better now who bear the same Name Oh how much worse Those that is to say the Jewish Priests had for their proceedings the countenance of a Law these do all things herein * i.e. Instrument of Government contrary to the Law Those killed not Jesus till above thirty years old these would have stifled him in the Womb. Those in one body of flesh only these in thousands Those for putting end to and crossing their way of Worship these for very practising and being what themselves profess and pretend to be In sum Those though they were the worst of all Jews seem yet to have been much better then they who would be counted the very best of Christians section 16 T. L. Whether it be a sin to endeavor to take the Foxes that spoil the Vines Cant.
2.15 c. Ans If all such Foxes were taken and kept in restraint how many of you Teachers would then be at liberty The Grapes of Christs Vines are love joy peace long-suffering goodness faith meekness temperance Gal. 4.12 Now where are the Foxes among us that spoile such Grapes as these On the other hand What Congregation is there of yours in which are not plentiful Litters of such Beasts to be found except for their ravening nature they be rather to be named Wolves then Foxes section 17 And who they be that entice to serve other Gods wil then be put out of doubt when as every man shall receive according to his works and then shall sad tydings be to them who now for a while are counted and called Ministers of the Gospel We serve that God who is worshipped in spirit and in truth who is light who is love if other God ye serve then this for it may seem by your query you worship not ours it 's plain that it is the god of this world who ruleth in the children of disobedience and therefore it is that in this world also ye do receive your reward the kingdoms of the World and the glory thereof section 18 Surely the Apostle in Tit. 1.11 1 Tim 4.1 in the Query cited did not mean that mens mouths should be stopt with a hand or a fist as the manner is of your disciples to do with many a shrewd blow and mischief besides Neither meant he any outward restraint or force whatsoever for when were the false Teachers mouths so stopt it being as it were the lot and portion of false Teachers in all ages to have the earthly powers of their side and all manner of favour encouragement and protection from the Magistrate but they that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution 2 Tim. 3.2 section 19 Neither did the Angel in the Church of Ephesus Rev. 2.2 use any outward violence toward them who said they were Apostles and were not c. as neither do the people of God to the false Apostles now-a-daies But by not bearing here is meant not owning and acknowledging c. for otherwise it 's very absurd to imagine that this Angel did beat whip stigmatize pillor fine or imprison both the false Apostles here meant and the rest that were evil for these also were not born as aforesaid which thing if you Teachers should once put in practise upon all your evil hearers and I think you count your selves Angels how many would you then have left for an audience And it 's plain this Angel was not so much in favour with the secular Powers that he was able if never so willing to have effected such penalties on the false Apostles and evil men the Angels themselves in those times as now also being of all other most obnoxious to the wrath and cruelty of the Civil Power as credible Histories do assure us section 20 T. L. Whether it be a sin to hate the Whore and to eat her flesh c. Rev. 17.16 Answ It is not to be believed you love the Whore so ill as to eat her flesh Go curb thy lusts vanquish thy affections and bring them to submit to the yoke of Christ and then shalt thou know the Whore here meant and her flesh till then thou doest but feed her of thy own flesh instead of eating of hers T.L. Whether we ought not to oppose Popery though Jezzabel-like it appears under a specious paint Ans Yea but then ye must be self-opposers I will not here say what a very eminent man feared not to preach and that before the Parliament viz. That Presbyterie was in some respects worse then Popery it self See Peter Sterry's Sermon preached before the Parl. on occasion of the Victory obtained against the Scots c. section 22 T.L. Because many evil-doers did not turn from their wickedness in the dayes of the Prophets Christ and the Apostles was therefore their Ministry succesless Isa 53.3 Joh. 12.38 Rom. 10.16 Ans If you Teachers had turn'd from their wickdness so many evil-doers as those here mentioned in this Quaery one of you with one of them compared I should grant indeed your Ministry not to have bin succesless but rather of great effect But now if any man listeth to know the success of your Ministry and so to judge of this question let him but come into your Meetings and there let him speak as soberly as he can or else be silent with his hat on soon shall he discern it may be with danger of life or limb what success your Ministry hath or rather what spirit your hearers be baptizd into Who were they I pray what kind of proof did they give of the Ministerial success who stir'd up the people laid hands on Paul being in the Temple crying out Men of Israel help This is the man that teacheth all men every where against the people and the Law and this Place and farther brought Greeks also into the Temple and hath polluted this Holy Plaâ—e And all the City was moved the people ran together and they took Paul and drew him out of the temple c. And as they went abâ—ut to kill him c. And when they saw the chiefe Captain and Souldiers they left beating of Paul c. Acts 21.27,28 and so along And yet if a few Names only changed this place were rehearsed any where in England would any man doubt it to be meant and truly related of your Hearers section 23 T.L. Is it not an Argument of matchless pride in you thus boldly to condemn the whole generation of the just that either have lived or do yet remain in the Land of the living for evil doers and persons not turned from their wickedness c. Answ I never so condemned the generation of the just as this quaery implies for my quaery had reference only to your Hearers whom when you shall have proved to be the generation of the just I shall then confess your Argument in the mean time I shall never doubt to account them for a wicked and adulâ—erous generation so long as I see them with the same ill conditions as had they whom therefore the Scriptures have so termed section 24 But unto what purpose have ye mentioned the Noble Martyrs and their fiery Chariots as though you with them had any affinity or conjunction Verily you are the children of them who sent those Martyrs in fiery Chariots to Heaven to use your own words though you can novv adorn and celebrate their memories as it were with garnished Sepulchres as did your fore-fathers also the Scribes and Pharisees towards the holy Prophets whom yet in other bodies as it were they had most cruelly slain Like as your Ancestors did to those you call godly Martyrs so do ye now to the Saints of God so far as you have power and that you extend not your cruelty to death it self is no thank to you nor